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I was reading in the first chapter of The Cosmic Christ of Scripture when I came across this idea: there is a veil of misunderstanding over the written scripture that was removed by the incarnation of Christ.
This is what struck me. We struggle to understand the scriptures and Christ came here on earth to help us understand them. But we need the scriptures to help us understand Christ. Ever feel like you are caught in an endless circle? I know I do at times. There is one point of comfort in all of this. Now that Christ is not here with us, he has sent us the Holy Spirit to guide and help us. It is with His help we can understand both the scripture and Christ.
What is it about scripture that we find so elusive? What is it that is in scripture that we find so hard to understand?
Perhaps the answer is found in who wrote the scriptures and why He had them written. Maybe the reason there is a veil of misunderstanding over scripture is because we have a veil of misunderstanding between us and God. Perhaps it was this veil that Christ came to remove and as a result, we can also understand scripture as we understand God.
I was reading through the first chapter in The History of Christian Thought this past weekend when I came across some of the Early Church fathers. The one I am thinking about the most of late was Justin Martyr.
In one way, the man is a genus. He used philosophy to counter the attacks on Christianity with reason and logic. He connected Christianity to something older to help give it validity within the Rome mind. But did he take it too far?
After reading his views on God, Christ, and the relationship between the two, I found myself asking these two questions. One, do we use philosophy (or anything else for that matter) to try and explain things in the Bible that we do not understand in an attempt to validate them? And two, where is the line between translating the Gospel into the language the world can understand and falling into the trap of incorporating the world into the Gospel?
Perhaps these questions do not apply to Justin Martyr but I definitely think they apply to us today. Are we trying to use philosophy to explain things that the Bible tells us but we don’t completely understand in order to validate them? And are we in danger of falling into the trap of incorporating the world into the Gospel when we are trying to translate the Gospel into ideas the world will understand?
In Hill's rapid overview of the early church fathers he touches briefly on Stoicism and its manner of interpreting the world that was encountered. He says "...the Stoics sought to achieve a passionless state of mind". Understanding that the stoics were masters of logic and reason, it is easy to see how they thought mastery of life included the exclusion of anything perceived as erratic, especially emotion and passion.
Living however in my world, it seems impossible to divorce reason from emotion and passion. If you have all the logic in the world and have no passion, where will action come from? If you have all the passion in the world, but no direction, where does all that energy go? Can we not find a balance that allows for the emotions that clearly we all have innate within us and yet does not exclude reason and logical conclusions?
It seems to me that in many churches today, there is a tipping to one side of this balance or the other. Many seem to feel that scripture and God can be understood through mind power, through logic, while others feel that God can only be experienced (what do you feel God telling you?). It is in this dichotomous relationship that people lose a grasp on God. How can we say God can only be understood through the lens we have approved? We would shove the world to choose to understand or to choose to feel.
Where is the balance of logic and emotion, both faculties given to mankind, come into play in our world now? How can I maintain such a balance in my life?
Death from God? I am amazed again at the horrific behaviors that were exemplified in the beginnings of the church as the world now knows it. Augustine was a whoremonger, Constantine a vicious soldier, and countless other ‘church fathers’ were power hungry connivers that fought from council to council to gain power and wealth. We know from history that the church grew out of ugly times, went through times and imposed similar atrocities on the world for centuries. How is it that God chose to use this thing we call a church to reach the world with good news? Though a perfect message left heaven, I cannot help but feel that our view of God and Christ is distorted drastically by the ragged history that the church has drug along behind it. We carry heavy baggage. Can we reach the world for a loving God with so much hate and blood on our hands? In a community that is supposed to be the most radically different and loving, how loving and different are we? Have the dark days of our past as a global community of believers been abandoned or at the drop of a hat would we abandon the God walk to chase fortune, fame and power? God have mercy! No wonder debates with Christians involved may be feared or ridiculed. It was not too many years ago that you faced death if you opposed the church or anyone who had the inside connection…
The trend of the development of Christianity and its thought as displayed in the book, The History of Christian Thought by Jonathan Hill, is remarkable. The rise and the influence of philosophy starting with Plato down to Justin Martyr, Irenaeus of Lyon, Tertullian and others projected ideas as of how the Divine should be understood. The concept of the LOGOS as a source of divine as developed by Plato is very interesting. Could it be that Plato thought of it or identified it as the Holy Spirit through whom God sustains the world? However, it is interesting to see how John in his gospel indentifies as God made flesh. I could sense that there was battle of ideas and resistance once this new discovery had taken place. I like the way Irenaeus of Lyon put it when he declared, “The Father is the invisible of the Son, but the Son is the visible of the Father” (Against heresies 4.6.6). Basically, one can see that changes had just started to take place within Christianity and it is no wonder that Christianity had to through so many changes before it reached its actual state. Every new idea depicted or revealed part of the divine truth somehow whether accepted or not. The concept of progressivism is clearly depicted through the history of Christianity upon God’s providence. Again, it can be seen very clearly through that depiction that God is connected to the world because for years He had been acting and involving in human affairs and in history which is a way of revelation with Jesus as the highest revelation of God.
I agree that finding a balance between reason and emotion is important to our religious experience. Neither extreme is very healthy and tends to lead to fanaticism.
I have discovered from my personal experience that if you “feel” God is leading, you should test that feeling by the principles laid out in Scripture. If you “feel” you are being lead to do something that is harmful to others or yourself, for example, chances are that the Enemy had a hand in that “feeling”.
On the opposite end, where all is reason and there is no emotion, we don’t have a passion or vision for the ministry or the work God has placed before us and we will lean towards legalism. We need to come to the point that what breaks God’s heart breaks ours too and we rejoice over that which God rejoices over. He did not intend our lives to be a sterile blob of blah. The only way I know for this to happen is to ask God to give us the passion or vision He desires us to have.
It is rare that a book incorporates the delicate balance of a spiritual life into the realm of the world around it. I often find it hard to ignore the beauty and the lessons of the natural world AND be able to incorporate that into a spiritual aspect of my life. The physical world has always been a source of inspiration and awe for me and I have always used it as a source of drawing close to God. And it is wonderful to have such a wide base of scripture and extra-biblical materials to rely on for a base of a spiritual bond with nature. The source of revelation of God is not solely scripture, nor is it only Christ, but God also is revealed through His creation. The world surrounding me, the people surrounding me, all serve to aim me to God. The seamless incorporation of the plural branches of revelation is fantastic. It is a balance that is often neglected in a typical church setting, a fine weaving of the physical world, the world as God has spoken of it and the world as revealed in Christ. It is only with the complete picture, with all three held together, that we are able to begin to achieve a balance in our relationship to God, and as a result of that relationship, to find balance with the people and world around us.
Biblical Numbers A number like 9.3 million is impressive. Especially when you hear that one book has had that many copies made and shipped out in one year! The Bible has been translated into scores of languages and has reached millions. According to the stats given on pages 30 of Cosmic Christ if in one year – 1978 – 9.3 million Bibles were printed, we can do some handy calculations. We are in 2007 which is 29 years post ’78 and if we assume that the number of Bibles printed remains steady over 29 years (a big assumption yes, but it allows for both growth and decline) we would come up with 269,700,000. So we can presume that 269 million people in the last 30 years have received a Bible. With 6 billion people on the planet (give or take a million or so…) this means we would need 22 more 30 year periods to print enough Bibles for everyone on the planet to have one. In other words, not everyone will have their own Bible for another 660 years! Does this bother anyone else? I do understand that you don’t have to have a Bible to get to know God. However, faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). What are we doing today that furthers the spread of the Word? And how many of those 9.3 million Bibles do we here in the seminary have stuffed away on a shelf, not used?
The book-Cosmic Christ was so interesting to me. The first chapter-How to Read God's three books, cought my eyes. The author presents Jesus Christ, the Scriptures and the creation in a very creative manner, which i have always missed. To me, alot of unveiling needs to be done esspecailly to those who are going out to minister becouse how do you teach what you dont understand. Paul is clear on that issue, but our hope is in Jesus who is able to unveil us and make us understand the scriptures as we study it day dy day. Scriptures have been presented to stand alone, and first among all the other revelation. I support that position it takes becouse it it trough the scriptures that we learn about Jesus, His love for us, and His plane of salvation. It is the word of God, that has been inspired, that reveals about God's creation, and that is why it comes before other revelations. How good will it be if God unveils us so that we can understand His word better as we prepare not only ourselves, but others for the second coming of Christ. As the scripture provides greater lighte, Ellen G.W provides lesser light and so must also consider her writtings besides our bibles for us to be well equiped for the end times.
The first chapter on the book -The History of Christian Thought, talks about Church Fathers.These were the earliest theologians, who tried to establish the basic doctrines of christianity. They tried to come out with what christians believe and why they believe.
It is interesting to me how these individuals dedicated themselves to set such a History for the future generation. I like the way Plato encourages us to think. He believes beyond material things world and just occured to me how material thing hinder us form sprading the gospel. In the Bible, Jesus had nothing in this world. Could it be true that it will be hard for rich people to enter the kingdom? Could it be that Jesus, Paul, Peter, were effective servants of God becouse they looked beyond the material world? In these materialist world, how can we be effective servants of God! This was a challenge to me. I like the way Tertullain somehow relates everything to the bible. He is so focused inthe bible and his life revoles around it. What a lesson for us to learn fron these historians. They not anly set history for me, but they challenge me in these post-modern times. It is true that the bible will never be out dated,these principles presented by these dedicated individuals left me think beyond what they did or thought. What an interesting history!
Book Read: “The History of Christian Thought” by Jonathan Hill • Chapter 1: “The Church Fathers”
After putting off this reading for a while, I finally faced the fact that if I am to pass this class “Understanding the Christian World” I had to read Jonathan Hill’s book; and so I sighed and settled down to start reading. In my mind I reasoned as follows: “why do I really need to read this book? It recaps the lives of others who have long since died and whose beliefs we as Adventists don’t embrace one hundred percent. So why study them? Wouldn’t it be more beneficial to study more contemporary writers, even writers who more closely share and expound upon what we know and hold dear as Biblical truth? How could these so called ‘church fathers’ help me at all? We’ve already come a long way and progressed greatly in our theological thinking as Christians, so there’s no reason to look backward to these fathers.”
Well friends, this was my reasoning before I started reading. Although I admit it was quite an immature posture, it was also an honest one. I believe even Hill himself anticipated such queries about reading this topic that he took time to address it in his introduction. He says, “The way we read the New Testament today is the product of centuries of speculation and development. And the thought of those who have reflected on Christian faith in the past remains a treasury of inspiration to those doing the same thing now.” He goes on to remind us that “even if many people no longer believe what they [the fathers] did, we are still, most of us, the heirs of the church fathers and the medieval; and because Christianity has spread across the globe…some of the things they said are worth hearing whatever your own religious beliefs are.” As I read this I softened up a bit and became open to trying to understand what the church fathers believed and had to say. From a discussion we had earlier in class, it further dawned on me that if I am to come up to the measure and stature of knowledge and to be effectively on par with other bright minds while defending the Gospel, then I have to stretch my mind and study topics I wouldn’t ordinarily choose to. And it’s funny how the Holy Spirit works within us because as soon as I changed my perspective and embraced the reading I found it quite interesting and worthy of studying!
After reading through the accounts of the various early Christian philosophers, it was interesting to see the progress of Christianity over the years, beginning with Justin Martyr who converted from paganism to Christianity and then set out to vigorously defend the Christian name. Although his non-vitriol spirit was admirable, his theology of the “logos” as being God’s divine reason being made manifest outside of God expressly for the purpose of creating the world and serving as an intermediary between God and the world, puts Christ at a lower level to God. In his view, Jesus Christ is this logos. Justin further purports that each person has a logos of their own and that human logos comes from the divine logos; and that anyone can follow the Logos by living a rational life. Thus, it is possible to follow Christ even if one has never heard the Christian message, just live a rational life! From Justin’s conclusions there would be no need for the incarnation of Christ. Today, Christians put much emphasis on the death and resurrection of Jesus. It is because of His death and resurrection we have hope. However, Justin’s viewpoint disregards the importance of the death and resurrection of Christ, the very pillar on which we today stake our hope.
The layman's definition of History as a subject is: "The study of past, present and future events. We study history, and use it as a tool to knowing the past in order to understand the present and to be able to predict the future. This concept of what history as a subject can do will put us in the right perspective as a people to master our situation and apply our hearts unto wisdom. Jonathan Hill's book has been able to serve the purpose of familiarising us with the past hitory of the Christian Church as it relates to her development right from the time of the Church Fathers. Let me say that we need to thank God on behalf of these early theologians for using them in their own little way by inspiring them to contribute immensely to the doctrinal development of the Church. Tertullian and Origen thought the doctrine of the Trinity the way they understood it, and all through the ages, other upcoming Theologians have developed on it. Anselm, during the middle ages, also touched on the central core of the Christian message when "He thinks of Christ's death as a gift that he offers to God to repay what sinful humanity stole from him. It is not a punishment for humanity's crime; it is a reparation made so that God does not have to punish anyone." The word "reparation," used here, is anchored on the work of redemption that Christ completed for msn through His death and ressurrection. We should be grateful that men like Origen, Tertullian, Athanasius, Justin Martyr, John Wycliffe, Jan Huss, to mention a few, released themselves for God to use them to consolidate and fortify the foundation of these Christian doctrines, they are legacies that we are building on today. They stood tall with what they believed in , even when their lives were at stake.
Posted today 09-27-07 at 2.30pm by Major, Cornelius Osuntade
My name is Jacques Ernst Comment on the content from page 1-45 I REALLY APPRECIATE THE SCHOLARLY WORK OF DR HANNA IN THIS BOOK. HE TRIES TO TIE TOGETHER THREE SEMINGLY DIFFERENT CONCEPTS, THE BIBLE, SCRIPTURE AND THE CREATION. I DO NOT KNOW IF THERE IS A SUCH THEORY THAT MIXES WATER, LEMON AND MILK WITHOUT USING A SOLID. IF THERE IS A MIXURE, I BELIEVE THAT ONE HAS TO CONTROL THE REACTION. IS IT OKAY TO ADMIT THAT THE MARRIAGE THAT SUGGESTS IS AN UTOPIA-TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE. I AM TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW CAN I PUT THIS MARVELLOUS WHOLLISTIC VIEW TOGETHER WITHOUT PRIORITING ONE OVER THE OTHER,”THE BOOK OF NATURE AND THE WRITEN WORD DO NOT DISAGREE; EACH SHEDS LIGHT ON THE OTHER” CAN WE FIND HARMONY WITH DIFFERENT PURPOSES, NOT REALLY DIFFERENT GOALS? IF I CAN NOT READ HOW THE WRITTEN WORD WILL INSTRUCT ME? I BELIEVE THAT THIS CASE BELONGS TO NATURE NOT EVEN CHRIST FOR HE IS NOT THERE ANYMORE. OR CAN WE INTERPRET THE HOLY SPIRIT HAS ONE THAT IS BEING INVOLVED IN NATURE, REVEALED IN CHRIST AND THROUGH SCRIPTURE. I DO NOT KNOW IF I AM CLEAR. IN A SIMPLE SENTENCE, WHAT IS THE ROLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE WHOLISTIC VIEW?
My name is E.J comment on the book by Jonathan Hill: a contrast comparaison of Justin and Origen vs my view of the trinity. THE DOCTRINE HAS BEEN A CHALLENGE THROUGH THE ENTIRE AGES. MANY GREAT MINDS HAD TRIED TO EXPLAIN IT IN THEIR WEAKENSS MINDS. IT SEEMS THAT IT BECOMES MORE CONFUSING THAN THE MYSTERY OF SALVATION. JUSTIN HAD DONE GOOD JOB BY PULLING TOGETHER THE PHILOSOPHICAL THOUGHT IN CHRISTIANITY. I BELIEVE THAT HE TRIED TO HAVE A WHOLISTIC VIEW THAT CAN COMBINE PHILOSOPHY AND THEOLOGY. HOWEVER, HIS VIEW CREATES A WHOLISTIC CONFUSION IN THE DOCTRINE OF GOD. HE EXPLAINS VERY CLEAR THE WAY THAT HE UNDERSTANDS THE LOGOS. I AM WANDERING THAT IF JUSTIN MARTYR HAD THOUGHT ABOUT THE ROLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN OUR LIVES. IF THE LOGOS IS THE BRIDGE THAT GOD USES FOR TRAFFIC PURPOSE, THERE WILL BE A CHAOS IN THE ROAD WITHOUT PRINCIPLES AND RULES. THEREFORE, THERE IS A NEED FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT AS THE DIVINE AGENT. IN OTHER WORDS, I BELIEVE THAT THE TRINITY CAN BE EXPLAINED IN TERM OF MISSION AND FUNCTION. CONTARY TO ORIGEN, I BELIEVE THAT GOD CREATED THE UNIVERSE FOR GOOD NOT FOR THE IMPROVEMENT OF HUMAN KIND THAT FELL AS SOULS. HE HAS GIVEN JESUS AT THE CROSS TO REPAY THE MISS WE DO NOT NEED TO MAKE OUR OWN ATONEMENT. FINALLY, HE GRANTS US THE HOLY SPIRIT TO LEAD US ALL THE WAY. I DO NOT BELIEVE ALSO IN A LONG SUCCESSION OF UNIVERSE FOR THE BIBLE TELLS THERE WILL BE A NEW JERUSALEM FOR ALL SAINTS. IF THERE WAS AN EDEN, THERE SHOULD ALSO BE A JERUSALEM, EDEN RESTORED. ONLY ONE THING THAT I AM STRUGGLING IF I WILL BE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE WITH GOD FACE TO FACE IN THE NEW JERUSALEM WITHOUT USING A MEDIUM.
respond to trav'ler jenn You have done a nice job. it is an obvious question that every one should ask. how do we balance reason and emotion. i believe that one needs a broader view for that question. however, i do believe that God is a God of order. Does order mean balance, organize, or structure. if it can be replaced by balance, one can argue that life is mixed up of different kind of substance to form a solution.Paul had struggle with that thought, i want to do go but i do bad. however, he found a good answer in Philippians 4:13 NLT, "For I can do everything through Christ who gives strength. Christ as human understood that battle. Now, the real question did Christ have a balance that helped me overcome, or did he have a victory over sin?
I believe that the concept of the three books of incarnation, inspiration and creation is essential in a way that it gives a broader picture of God’s revelation. The idea of the cosmos as creation instead of the source eliminates the pantheistic approach of the Logos. Presumably, when considering God’s revelation, we must really consider a bigger picture as presented in these three books. This helps me to resume that God in His temporality provides a way for us as human to get somewhat a grasp of His realm. There are some biblical approaches in order to understand them, we must grapple and wrestle with their concept. However, considering scripture as part of God’s revelation to us through which He reveals Himself and His will to us as human provides the possibility to know and to understand that which He wants us to know. As the God of science, all we need to do is to fear Him since it is the beginning of the whole process. I come to understand that the conflict between theology and science is simply a misunderstanding which happens to be there for such a long time enough that it becomes a convincing reality in our worldview. However, it does not determine the end because it is still not impossible to bring out the real aspect of both in order to analyze both ends and bring them together.
Sony Olivier comments Ernst Jacques' comment on the "Cosmic Christ of Scripture" by Dr. Hanna
You have a good approach on the wholistic concept and you raise some important questions that need to be considered somehow. I believe that the role of the Holy Spirit in this context is simply to open our mind and to have further understanding and revelation of God wholistically. Jesus call the Spirit as the "Spirit of truth." This says it all.
His role is to guide us through the process and see things in a larger view where the truth extends to a different level. That is, He will help us to get out in our circle and allow us to have a better view of the truth. The Spirit of truth will also reveal God by leading us to those sources. In this case, both nature and the written word contribute to that revelation which the Spirit consummates in our mind and understanding.
Dr. Hanna presents an arguement against those who say there is no God. By presenting God's three books as manifestations of the unquestionable existence of God, it leaves nobody with an excuse that God is not the Creator of the world. An Atheist may deny the authenticity of the Scripture as a Spiritual document, he may disbelieve Christ's supremacy and may not believe that God exists, but sure enough, he is definitely left to grapple with the evidences that abound in nature about the revealation of God who is the Super power behind the wonders of creation; for example, look at the sky that spreads across the globe without any pillars holding it isn't that a thing to think about? The three books of God, as presented by Dr. Hanna, are undisputable facts about God that are intriguingly and intricately interwoven and interconnected so much so that they " call for the exercise of a high level of faith and reason" to understand. There is a veil covering people's eyes,and making them not to either willfully or ignorantly want to believe in and understand the "cosmic Christ of Sdripture, " and the "Scripture of the Cosmic Christ. If these people turn to the Lord, the veil will be removed and they can enjoy the wonderful knowledge about the unequal Majesty of God.There is a multiple primacies of the three books of God, one is not more important than the other, in other words, all the three revolve round a circle whereby Christ has an ontological primacy, Cosmos has a cotextual primacy, and the Scripture has an epistemological primacy. The Scripture is shown in the 2nd and 3rd chapters of Dr. Hanna's book as a Christ centered book which is an authority "in matteres of faith knowledge and practice," and of course, which also espouses Christ and the cosmos as reliable revelations of God. E. G. White refers to the Bible as a "greater light" and her works as a lesser light, this to me pressupposses that the increase in the knowledge of the words of God will experience an outburst of the dazzling light of God that will illuminate the understanding of all those who will turn to the Lord in the end time to have their veil removed, the lesser light will also compliment the greater light by pointing to it and constantly assuring those who apply their hearts unto wisdom by assuring them tha they are still on course. My submission at this point is that God has not left us in the dark about Himdelf and about His plan for us, every plan for man from the divine throne room of heaven is unfolded and it is still unfolding in the three books about God: The cosmos, Christ, and Scripture.
Posted by (Major) Cornelius Osuntade this 30th day of September 2007, at 3.15am.
What stood out the most for me in this chapter was the concept of going to and fro. Daniel 12:4 states that “many will run to and fro, and knowledge will be increased.” I always understood this verse (and I now see that it was a simplistic understanding) to mean that it was the people who were going to and fro spreading whatever knowledge they had. But it has become clear to me after reading this chapter that it’s more than the physical going to and fro, it’s also an intellectual going. Dr. Hanna suggests that we need to go to and fro between Scripture passages, between Scripture and what we know about Christ, and also between Scripture and the cosmos/nature.
In each case, Scripture is the foundation of the knowledge we should build. I hadn’t really thought about Scripture being the first among the three revelations (Scripture, Christ, Cosmos). But I can now see that without it, we can easily be led astray by our own humanly finite musings. It’s only with a basis in the written Word, which we can look to repeatedly and trustingly, that we can formulate a proper perspective on the world and God Himself.
Chapter 4, The Cosmic Christ of Scripture: Are Ellen White’s Writings Biblical?
In this chapter, Dr. Hanna builds on the light he shed in the previous chapter about Scripture being the first among revelations. Ellen White, as a messenger of God, continually points us back to the Scriptures (as opposed to trusting in her words alone or first). She also often spoke about finding God in nature and the importance of object lessons in understanding God and His words. You can readily see that Scripture and nature each shed light on the other. And thirdly, she states that Scripture can lead us to an increase in our knowledge of Christ and essentially begs us to dwell on His life daily.
The idea of increasing both spiritual and secular knowledge was quite interesting to me. I assumed that increasing knowledge meant to increase only spiritual knowledge. But they sort of go hand in hand. Without spiritual knowledge, secular knowledge is blind, whether non-Christians know it or not. A quote from Ellen white that caught my attention was, “The Christian alone can make the right use of knowledge.” That could really be a big slap in the face of non-Christians, but I have to admit it is true. If we are to properly understand the things of the world, they must be understood through the knowledge that there is an omniscient Creator of the world who alone rightly knows how things work and have their being.
Dorcas Munyengwe Understanding Scripture Chapter 4, Revelation and Inspiration
The Moses-Aaron team of communication (p.64) is a perfect simple example of how God communicated to the prophets. I was just reminded of a story my brother told me of a preacher who needed an interpreter. The preacher was narrating the story of Lucifer in heaven and said “There was war in heaven” The man that was doing the interpretation said “There was (bwaanda) meaning (wall) in heaven.” From these two different words I can not be arguing of what each word really mean, I would look from the context of the whole story and make sense of what the story really means, in this case the word was (war) because it makes sense in the story.
On (p.65) we read that “The goal of inspiration is not to upgrade the human mode of thinking or of writing but to ensure that writers do not replace God’s truth with their own interpretations.” As Theologians, if we start arguing over little things we may miss the real meaning of what the Lord had in mind for his people. The Devil would be happy seeing theologians wasting time over who uses more Greek or Hebrew or the biggest words in biblical languages. As in the conclusion, we need to be united as Adventist, “to account for, and integrate, in detail all the evidence we find in the teachings and phenomena of Scripture relating to R-I.” By humbling ourselves before the thrown of mercy, overlooking all little and irrelevant words, the Lord will reveal to us more and we shall enjoy the Holy spirit talking through us.
The Cosmetic Christ of Scripture Chapter 10 Are Ellen G. white’s writings relevant to the cosmos?
To recognize God in nature is a very wonderful experience. Growing up on a farm helped me to appreciate nature. As a child I used to go in the woods eating different kinds of fruits. And I could imagine how wonderful God is to have made all kinds of flavors, and my mind would just go back to (Gen 1: 12) And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. I still love plants, fruits, and vegetation as a whole. Being on the sea when others were seasick, Ellen White says “she enjoyed every minute of it.” “Oh, the wonderful works of God! So much above our comprehension! He, at one Glance, beholds the highest heavens and the midst of the sea.” He is our Redeemer. We may trust Him in the storm as well as in sunshine.” For those who are parents and those planning to be in the future, I would suggest you introduce nature as you tell the love of God to your children as early as possible. They will be able to know “God’s character, thoughts, glory, wisdom, power and the law, as “the whole natural world is designed to be an interpreter of the things of God.” As Ellen continues for “the book of nature and the written word do not disagree.”
The History of Christian Thought Chapter 1 – The Church Fathers
Like any family, Christianity can look back through history and discover generations of forefathers. These church fathers begin in the second century with Justin Martyr and continue to the twenty-first century with theologians-in-waiting. Today’s Christians are vaguely aware of whom they were, mostly apathetic of what they believed, and practically ignorant of what they did. “The History of Christian Thought” encapsulates all three, and even places the church fathers’ contributions in the context of “how they helped shaped the world as we know it today.”
What I appreciated most about the book was its biographical information on each historical figure. It would have been easier for the author to focus solely on the theological background, while surreptitiously skimping on the personal history of the individuals. However, Hill’s dual focus on the fathers’ private lives and their opponents’ philosophical views truly enlightened me as to the reason, process, and resolution of theological development.
I believe now, more than ever, that someone’s theology cannot be separated from his personal life. Time and time again, I could guess what turn a father would turn in terms of his theology. Perhaps the best example of this intersection between theology’s theory, poiesis, and praxis is Augustine. I could almost trace a development on each of his beliefs on ecclesiology, liturgy, trinity, intrinsic nature, good and evil, sin, free will, and grace.
Cosmic Christ of Scripture Chapter 6 – The Theme of the Bible is Jesus
In this chapter, the author develops his Christology in three areas: the place of Christ within divinity, the nature of Christ as a divine-human person, and the nature of Christ-centered connections between divinity and humanity. All three areas are necessary in coming up with a holistic view of Christ, but perhaps the most relevant is the Christ-centered connection.
Interestingly, this also tends to be the “frontman” for Christology because Christianity traditionally emphasizes the relationship between Christ and humanity through celebrity verses like John 3:16. This third area can also be the most enlightening for the reader because of Hanna’s spotlight on the social nature of humanity in the image of divinity, and the corporate nature of humanity in Adam and Christ.
First, the church seldom proclaims the importance of human persons within one humanity. In evangelism, Christianity highlights “Jesus loves me and saves me” over “Jesus loves us and saves humanity.” Perhaps Hanna is suggesting for less egocentricity in order to recognize that humanity is one. “Just as divinity is social, so humanity is social.” This is something that is not often discussed in evangelism.
Second, the church rarely declares the significance of humanity’s relation to Adam and Christ. While the image of divinity ties humanity socially together, the first and last Adams connect humanity corporately. This is important because in Adam all die, but in Christ all live. Not only is this good news for us as individuals, but it is also good news for humanity as a whole.
chapter 4 in the book -the History of Christian tought- was very interesting to me. The chapter is about "The Reformation". The Catholic church which had all the say and powers was now being shaken by various individual who did not like the way it ruled. Reformation was not only in church, but also in the art, in painting, in science, and the greatest of all being the invention of printing. To me, this was a very important periods in history for it brought many changes that we see today. Talk about the Bible and other spiritual books, people could know read the word of God. To me, someone being able to read, is something that is very important. At least people can read the right message from the bible, unlike when people could be told anything and they believed simply because they cannot be able to read the right thing or there was no printed bible or spiritual material available for proper guidance. Somebody like Martin Luther did incredible work. He is known to have brought reformation not only to the church, but also the world. He was one man who impressed me the way he was couragious and stood for the truth, though heavens fall. How good could it be if christians could stand for God the way this man did. He palyed a key role in opening the peoples' eye. He made people realise that salvation cannot be bought, and its only by faith through Jesus christ that we are saved. His translation of the New Testamentwas aimed at making the Word of God understandable and available to all since it is suprime authority as it points to christ. Beside him, were others like John Calvin who forged a systematic vision of the christian faith and life that still profoundly influences our society currently.The reformers during this period made sure that the monopoly of Catholic church has been brought to an end which gave way to the rise of other churches for example-reformed church, Lutheran churches, scotland, and others. New kind of christian theology came about, and important figures like John Wesley, challanged the people with his idea that every person is free to accept God's grace, that God graciously gives us. Is it not wonderfull that people who thought that they could be saved by their good works, could now claim salvation freely?. That Jesus died on the cross for their sins, that if only they believed, they could be saved? This message, sets the captives free, and i really thank God for this reformers who brought good news to people.
Comment on Dr. Hanna’s book: Cosmic Christ of Scripture
I was reading through the chapter in Dr. Hanna’s book that talked about Nature and its role as special revelation and it reminded me of a couple of things I read in Child Guidance by Ellen White. In the chapter, Methods and Textbooks, I found some interesting things concerning scripture. Mrs. White states that the Bible should be the children’s first textbook and nature should be their second. She says, “From nature, with now revealed the knowledge of good and evil, man is continually to receive warnings as to the results of sin.” It seems to me, from this, that while nature reveals her Creator, she also reveals the effects of sin in the our world. I can not help wondering, does this make nature a flawed or tainted revelation? It is interesting to note that we are flawed human beings looking at a less then perfect revelation in Nature and we look at the Scriptures (written by God through flawed men) with flawed. It is any wonder why we are confused at times when the two don’t seem to match up? Personally, I think that even if all this is true, it would serve only as a greater testament of the power of God. Who else could penetrate such barriers and beat such odds of communicating with us then Him?
I was reading about Maximus in the History of Christian thought and one line in the book caught my attention. “Why was Maximus so obstinate? The issue of ho many wills Christ had hardly seems important enough to risk imperial wrath over – in fact we might think it a fairly petty and unimportant matter. But Maximus was not just a dogmatic theologian, rigidly refusing to abandon what he saw as the logical consequence of Chalcedon….The heart of his spirituality was the union of humanity with Christ and the union of Christ with God ….Just like Athanasius and Cyril before him, he recognized that what might seem like pedantic bickering over irrelevant matters actually cut right into the heart of Christianity” p. 109.
There have been many times I have sat in a class while my classmates battled back and forth under the watchful eye of our professors over what I consider to be trivial matters. What does music, or even women’s ordination, have to do with saving souls, spreading the gospel, or with salvation? Perhaps, I should look to see issues like these effect the heart of Christianity before I write then off as trivial details.
As I was reading about the Middle Ages, I fell on Thomas Aquinas. the question about how to know God triggered his thought and it became the focal point of his quest. he provided two major sources of knowing God; reason and revelation. He also said that these two do not contradict each other.
This caught my attention because I believe that reason has its limit and it can cause problems when using it as a channel to know the divine. That is, it depends on the nature of that revelation. The question is, are all kinds of revelations reasonable. To be more specific, is the incarnation reasonable? Talking about the supreme revelation, how can one explain the fusion of humanity and divinity. Can we use reason to explain that or does faith go beyond where reason cannot?
I am saying that reason is limited reasonably and that it cannot reveal the science of God. I am suggesting that reason is a useable vehicle or a channel but its limit must be respected and known.
Aquinas developed a five way system which I think is legitimate though they are Aristotelian basically. The one that I triggers my mind is proof from change. In other words, there must be a force that allows changes to take place. For him, it is important to find out that cause. This, I believe, connects directly to Aristotle's argument about the Prime Mover.
Greetings to my friends with "Inquiring Minds," because inquiring minds want to KNOW! I was reading from the book "The History of Christian Thought" in the chap. titled 'The Byzantine Empire' and was taking in all the ups and downs of defenders of their faith, such as Maximus (b. 580-663 AD) the Confessor, who believed Christ had two wills, one human, one Divine, but both in harmony...this seems to be in line with the two natures, on Person doctrine, but was not recieved well intitially...he was charged with heresy, and had his tongue removed as well as his right hand cut off so he could not promote his teachings, which later were endorsed by the church. Since he died only a year after his injuries, he is not considered a martyr, but the next best title of "Confessor" was bestowed upon him. Several centuries later,in 949, Symeon of Byzantium was born of noble birth, but later followed his teacher Symeon of Studia into the monestary as an unusually devout monk. He had a close personal relationship with the Lord that was very enviable to me. He was challenged to a debate by Stephen, the foremost theologian of the empiral court of Constantinople and "lost" to Stephen's "hard-line logic-chopping," and was forced out of his position as abbot. He later fixed up a ruins and then when his teachings were more accepted, turned down the offer to a bishopric by the Bishop of Constantinople. Symeon, like Pelagius was concerned with holy living and a real relationship with God through Christ, but he balanced the teachings of Pelagius by including the belief that divine role in salvation is integral...we do not earn our salvation, or live holy lives by our own will power. Yet he lacked the "morbid obsession with guilt that pervades Augustine's works." He "emphazised the reality of God to the believer and the possibility of drawing near to Him," according to the author. Symeon turned down the position of bishop because he was satisfied with who he was in Christ, I believe and found his relationship with Him the most satisfying. He seems like a Christian person worthy of study and emulation. A century after Symeon's birth, the Roman Church served the Orthodox Church with a papal bull, excommunicating the whole of the Eastern Church. Reminds me of the lyrics, "when will we ever learn, when will we ever learn?" from the Bob Dylan song, "Blowin' in the Wind" Voices of sanity seem to be mingled among all the extreme reactions...I thing of our own denomination, some had to be rebuked for "winning" arguments, thinking that that was how to win friends and influence people...didn't do much of the former, but probably accomplished the latter...not how they intended! Somehow we need to hold fast to the things that we believe esp. the things that have soteriological significance, based on Scripture, and yet respect those who have a different view. We don't usually kill people over views, although that is going on in the world, but we can "kill" with the tongue...E.G.White's admonition to not judge our opponents, but to put the "best construction" on their motives is still good advice. I'm sure Maximus would have said the same, but he'd have had to nod agreement! S.E.A.Waters
This is a comment made by Cornelius Osuntade on chapters 4-6 of Dr. Martin Hannah's book: "The Cosmic Christ Of Scripture." I want to say that the arguement put forth by Dr. Martin in favor of the writings of E.G. White as being biblical, is very timely, because of a lot of insinuations going on among some Christians and even among some Adventists as regards the authenticity of Mrs White's writing. It is true that we can not hold her writings as being above the bible, for they are lesser lights pointing to the greater light, which is the Bible, but then I consider her as a prophetess used by God, and thus, her writings are inspired of God. E.G. White does not see her works as the only source aside from the scriptures, she also "acknowldges other authorities that do not supercede the Bible." She also fell in line with the wholistic model of the three general revelation of God viz, the Bible, Christ, and the Cosmos. Her view does not in any way negate the proposition of Dr. Hannah that sees Christ as the ruler, the Church as the ruled, Scripture as the rule and the cosmos as the realm. All these, put together, put God in a broad and meaningful perspective. Furthermore, in the chapter that follows, Dr. Martin Hanna identifies Christ as the center piece of the Scripture.This chapter brings up a lot of contradictory views on the nature of this Christ of the Scripture, to some, He is divine and human, others see him as human but with a divine spirit,yet to some, He is regarded as only a creature who is not "truly God". In all these confusions, I love Dr. Hannah's conclusion that, "the best way to avoid confusion is to study the genuine Christ of Scripture." Let me also add that there may still be some dark spots in our understanding as we study the bible and wrestle with the nature of Christ,my submission is that if not for academic exercise, we do not need to bother ourselves about the mystery of Chrit's nature. What the Blble reveals to us about Christ are enough for our salvation, and coupled with the explanation of Hannah in the next chapter about the Christ centerdness of E.g White's writing, we have enough materials to use as well as other inspired writers. Cornelius Osuntade--10-31-07 6.00am
Chapter nine in the book " The cosmic Christ", talks about what the Bible says. It is interesting that most of the time we assume simple things, like the previladge to see, smell, walk hear. We asume that all people can see and so when we meet one who cannot see, we get surprised. it is good that we realize that, there are blind people in this word who cannot see, and maybe some of them were born that way,and have never seen any light in their world. In the same way that those who are blind cannot see, so, those who have eyes cannot read in darkness. Even if they have eyes, they need light to see. Christians need adequate light to read clearly the word of God.God, who is light reveals His light to us through scripture, Jesus Christ and the cosmos.Though God is light and He reveals Himself in the above mentioned forms, sometimes we miss Him because of Sin. When God created the world, He intended for us to have a personal relationship with Him, to talk with Him face to face, but sin brought a gap between us and God, and that is why we are sometimes afraid of God because we have sinned against him.The sin still blinds us to see His(God's) light clearly.Since sin has all ready distorted His love, we are warned against other things like false philosophy,worldly wisdom and false science, which can push us further from God's light, but instead go for true wisdom and knowledge which is found in God and in His revelation to us-scriptures, Jesus Christ and the cosmos.The more we will seek Him, the more He will reveal His light to us, and the more we will overcome sin hence His revelation of the light more clear to us too. It is a challange, that its only by faith we shall overcome this blindess of Gods light. Jesus overcame it, and through Him, we shall be overcomers too. It is a promise that when we shall come to take us home, then sin shall be destroyed, and all things shall be clear, the light of God shall be clear than ever. lets trust in, lets keep our faith in Him, and in due time, all shall be revealed, to us, perfectly as it was intended befor sin. This was an interesting assurance to me as i read the chapter.
Comment on the Cosmic Christ of Scripture by Dr. Hanna
The affirmation of the writings of EG White as a guide to Scripture is very important, especially now-a-day. Many people in our midst regard her writings as authoritative as the Bible. It is very unfortunate that these people miss the whole point of what God intended to do through her.
She encourages us to go to and fro in order to increase our knowledge. This should indicate that by going to and from seeking for knowledge, the probability of discovering new light is very high. However, since the cosmos and nature are part of that process through the light of Scripture, I believe that the probability for heresy(ies) to be filtered in is also high. Therefore, Isaiah 8:20 is one of the keys that would enable us to verify those lights.
The increasing of knowledge can cause problem for many. having said that, I am asking is it possible that God would retain that possibility to some knowing that it could be a stumbling block for them. But again, would God impose His will on individual's freewill in that context?
How necessary is the increasing of knowledge for one's salvation if it will not be extended to everyone? In other words, does my salvation depend on that increasing of knowledge? I believe that knowlege is very important and essential in the time that we are living. However, how we use that knowledge is even more important because knowledge can lead someone to Christ just like its misapplication can destroy the path for someone else.
It is interesting, and also very revealing, the way the history of the Christian church has been evolving. The three chapters under review in the book, "The History of Christian Thought," by Jonathan Hill, have succeeded in given me a vivid picture of a past that is solid, based on the commitment of the early Christian fathers, who sacrificed their lives to ensure that we get to where we are today in the history of Christianity. We experience a situation now, whereby, God is being pushed out of our existence. It is very sad to say that the legacy passed down to us by these committed early Christians is being daily trivialized by our non- challant attitudes towards Christianity. It amazes me to see the swift transition that occurred from the seriousness of the Reformers to a modern era that sees God as an outcast who is not needed in our world. The modern era has brought with it an unprecedented enlightenement in science. "The scientist believed in God, certainly, but they believed in him as a sort of last-ditch scientific hypothesis to be appealed to when nothing else could be found." With time, as the modern era progressed, so many philosophies started rearing their ugly heads with their heels being raised against God and His sovereignty. For example, the theory of humanism believes that man is the ultimate, not God anymore. Darwinism says we human beings evolved from apes, while logic and reason de-emphasize the wisdom of God. Thank God for a few philosophers like Schleirmacher, Soren Kierkegaard and Newman who, though were also philosophers, still held up, to some certain extent, the banner of Christaianity. With the arrival of postmodernism, Christianity is about to be totally submerged, with anything God being completely relegated to the background, this leaves me to have a deep thought on the question that Jesus Christ asked His disciples, "nevertheless, when the son of man shall come back, will He find faith on earth?" Let us keep our fingers crossed to see what Christianity will turn to in this postmodern dispensation. Be that as it may, I still have a strong faith that God is still in control of all things. He will win in the end because He has never lost a battle, HE WILL NOT LOSE OUT TO POSTMODERNISM.
Posted by Cornelius Osuntade, this day, 10-31-07 at 9.00pm
i was reading chapter 9 of the Cosmic Christ of Scripture and it reminded me of a Bible study i had this past week. we were discussing how to minister to those who don't believe in Scripture at all. how can a person believe the words of the Bible from "scratch"? page 107 discusses the distinction between Christian knowledge and natural knowledge. but "revelation does use natural channels". hebrews 1:1 gives evidence to us that our forefathers were spoken to by God through prophets and "in various ways". so is it correct to believe that all people, no matter what background they come from, carry both a Christian knowledge and a natural knowledge? and that their natural knowledge is what makes them receptive to the "supernatural evidences" of the things not seen? even today we see the "various ways" that God speaks to us, and all of us in the seminary have heard "God meets us where we are". this is something that has been on my mind not only for my own ministry, but for my own life as well.
nature + revelation = education. in reading chapter 10, this idea really tied in well with the book Cosmic Christ of Scripture. ellen white writes extensively on this equation. from the opening line of steps to christ, to the quote mentioned by professor Hanna. "every law governing the human system is to be strictly regarded; for it is as truly a law of God as is the word of Holy Writ." it is amazing to be reminded of God not only in Scripture, but how often do we reflect on God through nature? ellen white illustrates it the best by saying "Jehovah has written His law with his own finger upon every thrilling nerve, upon every living fiber, and upon every organ of the body." if we want to remove more of the veil that covers our eyes, we need not look any further than nature because it reveals so much more than we think.
Chapter 10, The Cosmic Christ of Scripture: Are Ellen G. White’s Writings Relevant to the Cosmos
I really loved the story about Ellen White’s ocean excursion – and can relate. God is so revealed in nature, whether it’s the grandeur of the ocean or the precision of a spider’s web or the beauty of a field of flowers or the peace of a warm, still day. I think we would do well to look for God in the cosmos every day – search for Him until we find Him daily, whether it be in a miniscule bug or the nighttime stars. It’s true that He is attempting to reveal Himself to us all the time, and that “the whole natural world is designed to be an interpreter of the things of God.” But so often we miss it or ignore it. And that is OUR nature – to be so preoccupied that we overlook how God is trying to speak to us. To be so enveloped by our own desires and needs that we forget or neglect to search for Him who can satisfy our desires and supply our needs.
It is also amazing to me that even though this world is so sin-scarred, we can still find beauty, symmetry, perfection of form, wonders, logical natural laws, and so on. And even in our less than perfect state, we can still perceive God and His work in the cosmos. And it’s striking to note that God is willing to use us less-than-perfect beings to speak His mind, so to speak. He didn’t just write it all Himself like He did the Ten Commandments, but entrusted His finite, feeble creatures to make sense of it and iterate it and pass it down through the generations.
The History of Christian Thought, chapter 1: The Church Fathers
I have to admit that I didn’t have much interest in the church fathers, but I now realize the importance of them and the foundations they laid. I can only imagine what it must have been like for these early thought leaders at that time. They were the first to grapple with some of these monumental issues and attempt to put their thoughts into a logical framework. They weren’t the eyewitnesses of the Cross and the events surrounding it, so they tried to take what they knew to be true, or believed to be true, and use that to inform the answers to their questions. I wonder how I would have done at such a huge task!
We’ve already discussed in class the majority of the church fathers, so I want to focus on one we haven’t discussed. Although Augustine is abundantly interesting, I’m focusing on Pelagius, especially in light of what we discussed about predestination and foreknowledge. One of the prevailing thoughts of his time was “if we are predestined to sin or grace, why make any effort?” (p. 78). Pelagius railed against this kind of thinking. But it seems that as he condemned the idea of predestination, he missed the mark when it came to overcoming sin. In his interpretation, Christians are not only able to live right and perfect lives through their own volition, it is also their responsibility to do so. What a disappointment all of humanity must have seemed to him, and how out of reach salvation must have seemed to those who listened to him. This kind of thinking gives no hope, belittles Christ’s sacrifice, and encourages man to overstep their boundaries while trying to reach the perfection that can only come from God.
Rudolph Sterling The History of Christian Thought Chapter 1: The Church Fathers The Church Fathers steered the young church through the turbulent cultural and mythological currents of the pagan world. Their writings offered guidance and assurance to early Christians whose faith was not only doctrinally challenged, but who often incurred persecution and even martyrdom. Found in their works are fascinating glimpses of the early centuries following the birth of Christ, and there records give rich insight into the growth and history of the Christian Church. Spanning the times and events from Justin Martyr to Cyril of Alexandria. Beginning with Justin Martyr who promoted the idea that Christ is the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, the source and completion of all that is true in Greek philosophy. He avoided Marcionism and answered a widespread Christian concern that philosophy might lead inevitably to heresy. In dealing with the trinity, Tertullian was the first to speak of God as one substance in three persons, as a unity of substance but trinity of persons, although he had a decidedly subordinationist view of the relationship of Son to Father. However the contribution of Athanasius and the Cappadocians Fathers like basil, Gregory of Nazianszus and Gregory of Nyssa who purported that the father and son are essentially the same. The fifth century brings Cyril of Alexandria who became embroiled with Nestorius, patriarch of Constantinople, who was preaching that Mary was not the Mother of God since Christ was Divine and not human, and consequently she should not have the word theotokos (God-bearer) applied to her. He persuaded Pope Celestine I to convoke a synod at Rome, which condemned Nestorius, and then did the same at his own synod in Alexandria. He believed that Christ was fully human and fully divine. Cyril who was unscrupulous and was notorious for killing his enemies is considered to be author of the orthodox doctrine of Christ.
Rudolph Sterling Chapter 2 The History of Christian Thought The Byzantine Empire Byzantine Christianity was a substantially different religion and cultural practice than Latin Christianity. One of its predominant characteristics was the role of the emperor in matters of faith. The Byzantines, however, inherited the Roman idea that the emperor was near divinity and practiced a form of Christianity where enormous ecclesiastical and theological authority was vested in the emperor. This eventually created a breach (the Iconoclastic controversy) between west and east. The Iconoclastic theologians believed that the worship of images, or icons, was a fundamentally pagan belief. It was Leo that turned the tide against the Muslim in 717. But Islam was opposed to the worship of images, thus Muhammad’s destruction of all the idols and images in the sacred Kaaba in Mecca. The Iconoclasts then, were in part inspired by the religious purity of the Islamic faith. However it was ironic that Iconoclasm would help the Byzantines regain territory conquered by the Muslims, but it was opposed by the papacy. One must pay attention to the rise of Islam as mentioned in this chapter for it seems as if almost all of Byzantine energy was focused on Islam. The Muslims very quickly conquered Byzantine territory in Syria and Egypt largely because of disaffected populations of Christians and Jews who had been persecuted since the time of Justinian. The Muslims as a military and spiritual power influence Christianity in several ways one of which was a Sufism a rich spiritual tradition and philosophy that influenced Christian theologians such as Thomas Aquinas.
Chapter 4 Hist of chrstian thought The Reformation no doubt was catalyzed by the renaissance. The discovery of new the world and new ideas and the advancement in technology helped to create the turbulence that shook the Catholic Church at its theological foundation it planted by the church fathers and was cemented throughout the middle ages. The old adage is true “knowledge is power” In my mind this question is begged; what has Columbus, Michaelangelo, and Galileo to do with theology and church doctrine? Though I will not attempt to answer that question at this point but one would agree that it does call for reflection. In the theological sphere men like Martin Luther used this rebirth of learning to change both church and world. In 1517, a dispute about who was entitled to a cut of the revenues generated by itinerant papal indulgence sellers provoked the controversy that led Luther to nail his 95 theses to the church door at Wittenburg. The upshot of Luther's theses was that Christians are saved by faith, and faith alone, and that no amount of works, including the purchase of indulgences, made any difference at all. The right to read and interpret scripture lead to the throwing off of the chains of papal and ecclesiastical authority; and taking this to mean political and economic freedom as well, there were widespread revolts among the German peasantry. This horrified Luther and many of the civil powers. It was not the desire of the intellectual reformers to challenge civil authority, but it was a consequence. Thus politics and the church became confused. It is generally said that Calvin did not really add anything particularly new to Protestant theology in the Institutes, but he gave much more logical and analytical structure to its doctrines. His book was an effective educational tool, intended to be the foundation for organizing a new Christianity. Calvinism is strongly identified with the doctrine of predestination, but this was not really a novel view, it was implicit in St Augustine's work of centuries before. It was Calvin's legalistic explanation of the significance of it and other standard articles of Protestant confession that made the difference. It is ironic that the citizens of Geneva, a people who were so determined to be free from an oppressive church hierarchy, who held as an article of faith the priesthood of all believers, and who were fanatical about the liberty to study and interpret the scriptures for themselves, should end up establishing a theocracy where the Kingdom of God was so rigidly enforced. Incidentally, the Lutherans and Calvinists came to despise each other. Eventually the church mobilized itself to deal with splintering of its authority and held the Council of Trent. It was the purpose of this council to try to define a common ground of belief and practice for all Christians, and to attempt to heal the schism. It opened in 1545 in the last years of François's reign, but it healed nothing. There was little hope that the Protestant views would be truly accommodated and honestly debated, and the end result was that Trent ended up reinforcing the more uniquely Catholic aspects of religion in contradiction to the Protestant practice. The special place of Mary was reaffirmed, for example, as well as the role of devotional works, the sacraments, the saints and angels, the role of Latin in worship, the sole privilege of the clergy to interpret scripture, the primacy of the pope, and all the other traditional trappings. Rudolph Sterling
Good job Catherine, you are raising an important issue with regards to the use of philosophy to explain things in scripture. Whereas theology in itself may not be wrong and is sometimes needful one must be mindful of the temptation to use philosophical rational to interpret scripture to fit one’s theology. The early church fathers did not always philosophized correctly the first time but their philosophy laid the foundation on which others build on, while gaining better understanding along the way. If time last, someone will look at our current philosophy and while appreciating it would make improvements.
The Cosmic Christ of Scripture-chapter 3- Let the Holy Scriptures Speak
Traditional Adventist explanation of Daniel 12:4 is narrowed to an increase in knowledge in the secular science and traveling through and fro in the earth and into outer space. This view was especially purported by the Evangelist during evangelistic meetings as a sign of the last days and the soon return of Jesus. Dr. Hanna seems to be saying there need to be a more holistic interpretation of the text. One must appreciate his calling for the primary meaning of the passage in its context and that is the text is talking out biblical knowledge which shall not be illuminated until a certain point in history. The Angel told Daniel to shut up the Prophesy until such time when that particular passage of scripture will speak for itself, thus the title of this chapter “let the holy scriptures speak.” When the scriptures are allowed to speak, and to interpret themselves they reveal Jesus, but to real hear the scripture one must go through and fro in them and then one’s knowledge would be increased. What about the increase of knowledge in the secular sciences and the going through and fro in the earth and into space? Were the traditional interpretations of Daniel 12:4 wrong? One must agree that an increase in the knowledge in the science of archeology for example does shed light on scriptures. Discovery in astronomy authenticate scripture, for scripture says “the heavens declare the glory of God and scripture speak of a moon before man was able to visit and study it. It seems that when the scriptures are allowed to speak not only do they explain themselves but the also a reciprocal relationship with science were they shed light on each other.
The Cosmic Christ of Scripture-chapter 6- The Theme of the Bible is Jesus
Dr. Hanna did an excellent job in this chapter by showing the relationship between the divine persons. The Trinitarian concepts of the Godhead are not easily understood let alone explain, this struggle is not new, the early church fathers had difficulty grasping it. Of the three persons in the Godhead, Jesus Christ seemed to have received the most discussions. His person as son of God and son of man, whether He is fully man or Fully God has spark many controversies. The scriptures however, are not silent concerning Jesus, intact Jesus made a mold statement by saying; the scriptures testify of Him. One can reason then that the scriptures are about Jesus in whom there is eternal life. It is of interest to note that Jesus being the theme of scripture began in Genesis obvious in chapter 3 and follows always through to Revelation chapter 22. Another important issue in this chapter worth noting is the divine humanness of Jesus that makes Him unique in His ability to connect humanity to divinity. Jesus’ nature allows Him to act as both redeemer and restorer of relationships amongst humanity with humanity and humanity with divinity.
The Cosmic Christ of Scripture-chapter 9- What Does the Bible Say?
The Cosmos as a book of God’s revelation in an intriguing concept; this is traditionally expressed as general revelation in nature. The scripture states “the heavens declare the glory of God and shows His work” psalm 19. This expression seems to be saying that the cosmos is shedding light on who God is. In another place the scripture states “Jesus is the light of the world” John 1. The scripture is also described as a light that shines more and more into a dark place. 2 Peter 1:19. Note how the interconnection of light between the Cosmos Scripture and Christ are complementing each other.
Another concept that jumps of the pages in this chapter is this; the Cosmos is not a revelation only in the sense of scientific revelation but also theological revelation. What does this mean? Well, the Cosmos is the context in which theology is done; it is the context in which humans meet God and experience God, His love for and His work on behalf of humanity. For example it is the biblical stories of the exodus and the wilderness experience, Jesus’ work on behalf of the poor, the diseased and the disenfranchised as narrated in the gospels we see God’s dealing in a tangible way with human. That is inarguably a revelation of the character of God that is done in the context of the Cosmos, done by Christ and spoken of in Scripture.
chapter 4:Are Ellen White's writings Biblical? As i went through this chapter, i was amazed on how it was presented. I felt like running around the whole world to call people to come to read to what Ellen wrote and said. Her last public speech still lingers in my head since i read it "Brethren and sister, i commend unto you this Book.' Without another word, she closed the book, and walked from the platform. It was her last spoken word in the world assembly". Since she has written numerous books, someone can think, she was promoting one of her books. Since she was of age, we could think she gave her last speech to encourage people to buy and read her books, since se received visions on how to write them. She had all the reasons and evidences to promote her books, she had a golden chance to do that, in her last public speech. But it was amazing, i was touched, when i read that sentence, that in her last speech, she held up the Bible, and told the people to read it well, from the beginning to the end, from new to old testament. It is funny how people can ask if her writings are biblical, yet all she does, is to direct people to the bible. Form her mouth, her books were never ment to guide our daily living, the Bible and Bible alone should be our daily guide. She refered to the Bible as the only rule of faith, practice ans knowledge. If this was her stand, then why should we question her writings?If she pointed us to the Bible, why question what she wrote? It is funny how we dont question most writings like biology, or physics, or history, yet we question the writings that point us to the reading of the Bible. Maybe it is becouse of sin that we do so, maybe is it becouse of the great contraversy, between what is right and wrong that we question the writings that points us to read our Bible more and more. She commented this way "If they dont speak according to God's word, there is no light in them", What does this tell us aabout her or her writings? I felt that i will never question her writings again. I invite others to read for themselves what she says about her writings and what she says about the Bible, and they will be surprised, they will never questioin her again.
Infact, i did not know that she advocates for people to read and read, both secular and material writings. She wants us to be informed and never to be left behind in any area. She wants us to have reason for the things we do or the faith we have. To me, this lady was powerful. We encouraged people to ready and have knowledge both spiritual and secular wasent she wholistic?
Chapter 3 "the middle ages', of the book 'The History of christian thought " cought my eyes. It is amazing how we think that there was never a world before us. When we turn on the lights in our houses, we never think of the times when there were no lights. When we read our Bibles, do we stop to imagine that there were days when we did not have the Bibles, or any ther book, no clases? More that anything, we should thank those people in the past who have worked to see we have all that we need today. Nobody should be seen any lesser, all need to be honoured, for all played important role to bring the world to its current status.The middle ages were in the 13th centuary, when grat cathedrals and monasteries were built throughout Europe. What interests me most is the fact that new breed of theologians arose during this times. There was unity of faith and religion, reason and philosophy, and it seam very intersting how all these interacted to one another.
I thank God for some times when they happen. Nowonder the book of Phillipians tells us to always rejoice, not forgeting that all things happen for the good of those who love the Lord. During the dark ages, the political unity collapsed, and so people did not trust the government anymore. What did these lead to? This lead to people looking for security somewhere else.People found peace, love and unity in the church. This reminde me of what the Bible says that those who trust in the Lord, shall never be put to shame, they will be filled with joy that surperses understanding. To me, this was a time when people came to realise that, the state cannot offer unity, only God does through the church. We should put our trust in God and not the worldly human leaders. It was interesting reading this chapter.
As I was reading about the middle ages in the "History of Christian Thought" by Jonathan Hill, I was attracted by Anselm who, with his thought, tried to prove God's existence. The way he approached it is every interesting. I like the fact that he started with the Word. In his philosophical approach, he tended to use logic to make his point which was perfectly relevant and which I believe was successful.
This idea, I believe, was used by Descartes in a different way. This time, Descartes is using his own existence. In trying to prove God's existence, he says "I am, I exist is true whenever I conceive it or utter it." In other words, his own existence was a proof of the existence of the Spurnatural God.
In that way, he simply twisted it a little but the essence of Anselm's thought was present.
Reading from Dr. Hanna's book in chapter 7 to more specific, it is interesting to see how Mrs. White made Jesus the center of her writings. With no doubt, she expressed herself deeply about Christ and how salvation is from Him alone. This has a connection between Dr. Hanna's approach in chapter six where he desribes and reveal how Jesus is the center of Scripture.
Therefore, it would be absurd for and useless if the writings of Mrs. White would have for center Jesus Christ. As the Supreme revelation of God, I am asking how nature, without emerging into pantheism or pannentheism, reveal Jesus? Or Does nature reveal God in His wholesomeness without necessarily reveal God in His functionary aspect? Back to Mrs. White. It is interesting to see how she describes Jesus as powerful and equal to God but yet as human to live among men. She just attacks and displays the mystery that no human mind can grasp and no human intelligence can explain. I see faith and faith alone that can allow us to accept this mystery and I believe that God must put us in that position in order to know that there is so much our mind can take and that we must rely on Him.
I wanted to comment on Brother Rudolph's comments on "Let the Scriptures Speak" about how we must be balanced in how we interpret the Scriptures. The example was about how our evangelists, (SDA and other denominations too, I believe), have interpreted the words in Daniel, "many shall run to and fro and knowledge will increase" as pertaining to scientific and technological knowledge, but that many scholars believe it is primarily talking about prophetic and biblical knowledge. I agree, but I think that God can have two or more levels of truths in His prophetic messages. It reminds me of the iron and clay mixed together in the "Metal Man" statue of Daniel. Gold was used in Babylon, Silver by the Medo-Persians, Brass was used in Greeks for armour, and Rome was the "iron monarchy", (not that these metals weren't used by other kingdoms, but they represented them in a special way.) Iron "mixed" with clay don't really adhere together, just like the European countries couldn't seem to fully unite, tho' they tried very hard thru' strategic marriages. But someone pointed out how the world, esp. the Western world, is largely built with iron, (steel) and clay, (cement, brick and mortar). I think God is a poet and with His foreknowledge He was able to symbolize things at several levels, but that it is very important to get the primary meaning of His words/messages, (in this case prophetic words), thru' sound exegesis and not to go off on any old tangent...Lead by the Spirit, and guided as well by the whole Scriptures... That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Ernst Jacques The Cosmic Christ of Scripture When one analyzes the current trend of theology in the Christian World views, one has to understand that nothing is more complex than the book of nature-Cosmos. The inspired author had seen it long time before, “ The study of the cosmos itself is indispensable and leads to a knowledge of God.” (Qt from Hanna, 63). I am wondering if it is implied that our understanding of nature must be developing in a daily basis so that we can experiment the truest love of Christ. Will that be possible to understand nature with Christ? If not, how can we show the deity of Christ through nature? Is nature a source of information or formation? I am fascinating by Dr Hanna’s view on “the Cosmic Christ of Scripture”. He provides a new insight on how to understand God through history and nature. The History of Christian Thought: Our church fathers had struggled with the same concept “how can God manifest his presence in the cosmos? Can the humanity and the divinity be active in the cosmos? Our Fathers were sincere Christians, devoted their time to understand the complex things. They may have made some mistakes, however one can not ignore their contribution in Christian thought. How can someone forget about the work of pseudo-Dionysius? They have provided us on the economic power of God-Hierarchy. They introduced this word into Christianity to show us that God is God of order. In the extreme side, they think that God is only sentimental God. In a simple word, we can only experiment God through senses, not in an intellectual level. This view is against many Church Fathers who advocate knowledge as the way to know God. I am not against that view, but It gives birth to what we can call today “feel good theology”
Ernst Response to "Knowledge issue" It appears that most of our church Fathers were engaged in the same battle, fighting against the Gnostics who believe that God steps in to limit watching the rebellion or His mistake. Furthermore, in the early Christian Schism, the main battlelines in the second and third century was focused around the “orthodox” Christians and the Gnostics. When we come to the seventeen century, Galileo famously spoke of that book, “Galileo (1564-1642) : “Philosophy is written in this grand book, the universe, which stands continually open to our gaze. But the book cannot be understood unless one first learns to comprehend the language and read the letters in which it is composed. It is written in the language of mathematics, and its characters are triangles, circles, and other geometrical figures without which it is humanly impossible to understand a single word of it”. Now, the battle became more complex at the arrival of modern science. Can it be proved scientifically the deity of Christ in cosmos? If it is in the language of mathematics there must be a theory to prove “The Cosmic Christ of Scripture” Approaching the twenty first century so called post modern, they are asking themselves what The Cosmic Christ of Scripture can do for me while possessing the required knowledge to survive? Right now, they are not trying to disprove the Cosmic Christ of Scripture, but rather they are trying to understand Him in their educational level. I believe that is the reason why we have so many theories on “evolution”.
My comment this evening is in response to Part Four of Dr. Hanna's book, "The Cosmic Christ of Scripture," subtitled: How to Read the Book of the Cosmos: Christ in the Light of General Revelation. Some, such as my ethics professor, claim there is no such a thing as an atheist, but before I was a Christian I at least thought I was an atheist. Someone else has said that the claim is made in despair at not finding God, whatever the case may be, in spite of the beauty of creation, and the vastness of the night sky, I thought the savagery of many aspects of the animal world was a strong evidence that the God of the Bible was a myth. Dr. Hanna makes the point that "Divine redemption is presented as a matter of empirical fact in the context of a cosmology of creation and fall, (Genesis 1-3)..." It would seem to follow that one could learn something about an artist by his/her artwork, how much more so with the Creator and creation, but if we don't know that an intrusive element has distorted the creation, then we will include a false impression of the intentions of the Creator. I.E. the Biblical and foundational teaching of Genesis helps us to interpret the cosmos, or the nature we live in, correctly. I would like someday to see the human necessity of joy in relation to the light that the Cosmos sheds upon the revelation of God, since joy in relationship, (including the willingness to sacrifice one's personal, physical interests for others), will be shown, I believe to be a powerful evidence of God in the sense that we thrive when we develop a character that doesn't really mesh with our natural inclinations, and that we are wired for God, to worship Him, and that the death and destruction that we experience is foreign in a sense, something we rebel against at our core. "He has put eternity in their hearts." The Cosmos in the Light of the Christ of Scripture is exceedingly relevent to our world!
As we round up this posting exercise, I want to say that the cosmos has become a standard evidence for the scientist to prove the existence of God. Dr Hanna, in part 4 of his book, presents a tenable argument that there is "harmony between theology and science.The Christ of scripture unveils His creation." A scientist who does not believe in God nor the Bible, and who refuses to acknowledge that the cosmos is an adequate revelation of God's power, can not be a successful scientist. Has such a scientist sat down to think about the sky as spreading all over to every country of the world? The sky is there with no pillars holding it, and yet it has not fallen on us! What about those big waters that spread across from Africa to Europe, and the United states and other parts of the world? Have such unbelieving scientist thought about an invisible power behind the sky and the waters? We need to pray for people who refuse to acknowledge what the Bible says about the reality of God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit, and the power in them. Since according to Dr. Hanna, the "Scripture depicts the revelation of God's word in terms of the metaphor of light(Ps119:105)", then I submit that our scientist friends need the dazzling light to illuminate their dark minds."Ellen White proposes that neglect of the light of God in Jesus, Scripture, or the Cosmos results in false science and a false theology which are not Christ centered." This statement is quite true in the light of the fact that the greatest scientist is God. Why have I said this? It is beacause His creative and sustaining power give an empirical evidence provable in the cosmos. In another vein, A Christian who is born again must have passed through a unique experience, this experiece is not gotten from the empty space, rather it must have been derived from reading the book of Christ, the book of cosmos and the book of Scripture. In conclusion,We can not separate the books of Cosmos, Christ, and Scripture from one another, they are all complimentary to themselves. As we get ready to go to heaven, we should pray continuously that we will continue to receive more light to guide us in reading those three books so that we will make it on the day of Christ's appearing. Amen. Posted by Cornelius Osuntade (Major) this 30th day od November, 2007 at 6.50am.
As I was reading this book, the section of Dietrich Bonhoeffer caught my attention. One of the topics that have been of interest for me is World War II. And in actuality, it was his life, more then his theology that caught my attention. He grew up just in time to be martyred by Hitler for his resistance in the name of Christ. Actually, he resisted the Nazi regime because he was apposed to mixing government and theology.
I find it hard to believe that Karl Barth encouraged him to return to Germany, even though it would mean that Bonhoeffer’s life would be in jeopardy, so that he might be of help the struggling church. He did return and was of great help to the church right up until his arrest. It seems God still had a work for him to do for he was allowed to write papers and letters while in prison right up until his death.
I have a great admiration for those who do not just talk, write, and preach theology but rather live it. Dietrich Bonhoeffer was one such man. I think it is a challenge presented to us. Are we willing to not get caught up in the trappings of religion, but rather live our relationship with God? Are we willing to walk not just talk?
Reading through the chapters on Ellen White reminded me of a challenge examine I took at the beginning of this month. The examine was on Ellen White, her writings and life. In my preparations, I went over the tests of a prophet. One of them is that the writings and teachings of the prophet must line up with the scripture. And as I was reading through the book, it seems like Dr. Hanna was doing that very thing. He did not mention it as a test of a prophet but that is understandable. If I am guessing right, his intended audience wasn’t mainly Adventists. In the first pages of his book is an invitation to anyone, no matter their background. Anyways back to the topic. I found it quite intriguing to compare what Dr. Hanna was doing with the writings of Ellen White. He compares what he found in scripture in regard to scripture, Christ, and the cosmos to what she has to saw. It was something that I hadn’t seen the first time I read the book. So, Dr. Hanna, what of the other tests of a prophet? Or is that a topic of another book coming in the future?
In my readings of "The History of Christian Thought" I was reading the sections on Process Theology, Liberation Theology and Feminist Theology. They are interesting to me in the truth that they contain, but I see that they are either inherently unbalanced, (Process and Feminist Theology...my opinion, of course), or have a real tendency to swing to unbalance, namely Liberation Theology. Then in the midst of these readings I read about Jurgen Moltmann, whose theological approach is refreshing for his time. He at least tries to get back to the basics of theology, which is Christo-centered. His 'testimony,' if you will, was very needed at the time he wrote his major books, "Theology of Hope," "The Crucified God," and "The Church in the Power of the Spirit" (1964-1975). He emphasized the cross as showing that suffering is part of who God is...I would say that love always risks suffering, and that is why God suffers now, since the Fall of Lucifer and mankind. The author's mild criticism of Moltmann's message of hope to the suffering, (that God sympathizes and experiences the pain as well), as being not satisfactory to those who continue to suffer, may be helped by the fact that God does not only suffer Himself and sympathize with us, He offers His Presence, that tho' it doesn't answer all the questions of suffering, does in a mysterious way, answer the longing of the heart. (As with Job) Also suffering does have the potential to get one's attention (!) and to possibly open the way to a dialogue with God and understand the evilness of sin...It can be our end, or our beginning...Any way I admire Moltmann's desire to get back to the central truth of God's revelation in Christ, even tho' he may have gone a bit too far in claiming that ALL our knowledge of God comes from Christ. (In a sense, anything that is true about God was provided by Christ, but I don't think that is what he meant...) I also think that Joy and Love are the most basic characteristics of God, not suffering, but imbedded in love is the willingness to suffer for the objects of that love.
In the middle of chapter 10 in the book "The Cosmic Christ of Scripture", there was a clear explanation of the relationship between science and the Bible that Dr. Hanna drew out. And i seem to communicate with people who seek out a scientific explanation for everything in the Bible. we know people who will believe in God, as long as God can be scientifically proven. and if that's not there, then there can be no God. it made me think that when it comes to religion, you can give 9 reasons why that there is a God, but if they can find a fault in one, then it's all false. People have a tendency to look for ways to negate something. And in reading this chapter, this was becoming clearer to me. But Dr. Hanna writes that a correct understanding of both nature and the written word will ALWAYS prove them to be in harmony. One does not contradict the other! the book goes on to say that in order to restore harmony, we even at times "undermine" or "destroy" the word of God! what is most important to us? the harmony or the truth? both are, but do we truly believe that nature and the word will always be in harmony?
Jonathan Hill, in his book, makes a brilliant and well elucidated contribution in the area of the development of the history of the church. The way he divides the various period of history into segments, gives the reader an easy sequential flow of thought that facilitates easy grasping of the contents. He explains that after the conflict of the period of reformation fizzled out, the challenges of enlightenement, grafted in the modern and postmodern eras, started to rear their ugly heads, and coupled with the issues raised by modern science, theologians needed to come out more daringly to face what Jonathan Hill said " would shake their very assumption to the core." However, we need to thank God for raising theologians "who were more than equal to the challenge. For instance, "at a time when Christianity seemed to many to be in its death throes, impaled on the cold reason of the Enlightenement, Schleiermacher saved it from an ignominious retreat into irrational Pietism." Also, Moltman tried to lift up Jesus in the midst of all these confusions as the primary revelation of God when he argued that, " Christ is the starting point for our understanding of God. In other words, instead of starting with an idea of God and then modifying it by reference to Christ, we simply point to Christ and say 'That is what God is like.'" Since the time of the arrival of modern and postmodern eras, Christainity has been faced with secularization, God is been pushed out of man's situation, and the theory of humanism, which states that man is more than sufficient to solve his own problem, has taken over. The theory of evolution, proposed by Darwin for instance, expressly denies God as the creator of man, saying that man evolved from apes and underwent a period of transitonal levels which finally brought him to his present human level. Deism proposes that God created our world and stood aloof from it. Pantheism says God is in everything, but not a God you can pray to.All these and so many more are various challenges facing Christianity today. Where are we heading to? Jesus asked His disciples a fundamental question, which is, "when I come back, will I meet faith on earth?" The disciples could not answer that question. This is an era of postmodernism, are we going to have another secular era evolved from it before Jesus comes? If yes, what will it offer Christianity. If no, what will be the end of all these confusions about postmodernism? One thing I know is that, God will triumph in the end whether the secularists like it or not, because it is not realistic and visible that the clay will be wiser than the potter to the extent that it will be the moulded pot which will have the final say. Posted by Cornelius Osuntade (Major), this 30th day of November 2007 at 5.50pm.
When reading this book, there is one man that Hill explains in the opening paragraph that has stuck with me through this semester. This book describes and explains many of our church fathers, but the way Hill opened the chapter on Irenaeus of Lyon, has been on my mind. it wasn't anything profound, but it was a valuable lesson. In reflection, his theology is descibed by Hill as being "profound" and "quite striking", especially to those more used to a Western Christianity. But to his contemporaries and people of his time, he made little to no impact! I found myself asking "who will be finding our work today as influential to them in the future?" God must have an audience out there for us, even if our contemporaries find little benefit today. We even may get discouraged but Irenaeus shows first hand that God has a plan for each of us. it was encouraging to see this in the life of someone who made such an impact on the history of Christian thought.
Cosmic Christ of Scripture Chapter 3 – Let the Holy Scriptures Speak
Reading the Bible from an exclusive approach can negate Scripture's call to hold it as epistemological primacy AND seek other revelations. Often this attitude is held by those who reject an inclusive approach. In trying to avoid the opposite extreme, these Bible students fall into the same trap of compromising the proper authority of Scripture, Christ, and cosmos.
According to Hanna, Scripture provides a model for Bible students that shows that the proper view of secular and spiritual science. The book of Daniel presents Hebrew captives who were skilled in both Babylonian knowledge and divine wisdom. In fact, God is seen as the giver of knowledge and wisdom. This is relevant to Christians today because Daniel 12:4 predicts an end-time where both secular and sacred knowledge will be increased.
But all of this "increase" must occur within the framework of running "to and fro" a) within all of Scripture b) between Scripture and Christ and c) between Scripture and the cosmos. Ironically, the unique primacy of each revelation actually supports the unique primacy of the Bible. The epistemological primacy of Scripture allows for the ontological primacy of Christ and the contextual primacy of the cosmos.
Without Christ, Scripture would have no meaning, and without the cosmos, Scripture would have no application. These ideas seem basic, but they are profound. These foundational concepts must become guiding hermeneutics in the proper study of Scripture.
The History of Christian Thought Chapter 3 – The Middle Ages
St Francis of Assisi was a friar from the Middle Ages who is known today for his prayers and canticles. But his legacy was much greater than religious poetry. Francis unwittingly founded a new force in the church: friars. Unlike monks who had secluded themselves, friars identified with the world.
This was significant. The friars' consciousness of the downtrodden in the 13th century planted seeds for the social theology and action of the 20th century. These Franciscans merged with the Dominicans to become the "mendicant orders." Their immediate impact was in traveling, begging, and establishing academic centers.
But the mendicants' ultimate legacy was their brilliant scholars of the 13th century. Theologians like Aquinas, Bonaventure, and Scotus helped formulate Christian theology in the Middle Ages.
Francis could never have imagined his small group of friars would become the genesis for 13th (ecclesiological) and 20th century (social) theologies. Francis and his friends were not interested in either of these fields, but it was his theological legacy more than his poetic legacy that helped to mold the Christian world. Perhaps contemporary Christians should consider the unwitting effect they may have on future generations the next time they get together with their friends to write spiritual prayers.
The History of Christian Thought, chapter 4: The Middle Ages
I thought it would be interesting to look at a time period known for the Dark Ages and Feudalism to see what kind of Christian thought was occurring then. Anselm’s proof of God’s existence and doctrine of salvation are intriguing.
His ontological argument of proving “God’s existence from an analysis of his nature rather than from observing the world” is both an interesting idea and tricky. I get a little lost at the end of the proof, but I enjoyed how he took one verse that speaks of both fools and God in the same breath and uses them as a launching pad to show that what a fool already believes can itself prove the existence of God. It’s rather clever.
I also liked the use of dialogue to describe the nature of salvation. Instead of speaking above the heads of the ordinary person, Anselm (and others) used written dialogue to ask the logical and likely questions of the readers. I also noted how influenced by his cultural context Anselm was. And if I’ve learned nothing else this semester in my classes, I’ve learned that we need to look at the culture each person (whether biblical or secular) was writing in to get the appropriate meaning – and not just accept it at face value or reject it out of hand.
The History of Christian Thought, chapter 4: The Middle Ages
I thought it would be interesting to look at a time period known for the Dark Ages and Feudalism to see what kind of Christian thought was occurring then. Anselm’s proof of God’s existence and doctrine of salvation are intriguing.
His ontological argument of proving “God’s existence from an analysis of his nature rather than from observing the world” is both an interesting idea and tricky. I get a little lost at the end of the proof, but I enjoyed how he took one verse that speaks of both fools and God in the same breath and uses them as a launching pad to show that what a fool already believes can itself prove the existence of God. It’s rather clever.
I also liked the use of dialogue to describe the nature of salvation. Instead of speaking above the heads of the ordinary person, Anselm (and others) used written dialogue to ask the logical and likely questions of the readers. I also noted how influenced by his cultural context Anselm was. And if I’ve learned nothing else this semester in my classes, I’ve learned that we need to look at the culture each person (whether biblical or secular) was writing in to get the appropriate meaning – and not just accept it at face value or reject it out of hand.
The History of Christian Thought, chapter 6: The 20th Century
I have been intrigued by Dietrich Bonhoeffer for a while, but I didn’t know a whole lot about him. Perhaps what I like best about him (aside from the fact that he was willing to stand up for God and what was right) is his concern for practical matters: “Our task must be to live a Christian life and understand how Christianity can be relevant to the modern world.” He recognizes that the world now thinks that it can get along just fine without God and implores us to look for God in the ordinary and in our day-to-day affairs. His emphasis on God as opposed to religion is also insightful. So many people are disillusioned by organized religion and turn away from God altogether. If they could only realize that there is more to God than religion, they would be better off. And that’s where we need to come in – we need to guide people to the living, saving God and not be so concerned about numbers of baptisms in a year. We also need to be God’s representatives here on earth and allow God’s light to shine out from within us daily.
Bonhoeffer’s thoughts on God’s powerlessness and suffering (“The Bible directs man to God’s powerlessness and suffering; only the suffering God can help.”) are useful in reminding us that God didn’t come here in all His glory to save us, but rather in all His meekness.
The History of Christian Thought Chapter 5 – The Modern Era
Perhaps I should be analyzing the profound theological implications of this book, but by its end it felt like a good story. I enjoyed its narrative that tried to connect everything together. The author drew explicit and implicit comparisons and contrasts between ideas, philosophies, lifestyles, cultures, movements, organizations, and even people.
One particular movement I kept thinking about was Romanticism. One of my most treasured memories in college was Professor Ed Wilson's British Romantic Poets class. Now that I better understand the historical background and theological figures of Romanticism, the greater I appreciate these poets. Bryon, Wordsworth, Coleridge, Shelley, Yeats, and Keats are more real to me than ever.
Their reaction against the enlightened Age of Reason helped move Christianity from head and doctrine to heart and nature. Schleiermacher's belief that religion lies in "feeling" rather than in "doctrine" unwittingly laid the groundwork for the Existentialism of the 20th century.
Just like Schleiermacher's complex relationship with Kant, Romanticism was not just reacting to, but also developing the Enlightenment. This reminds me of Hill's line, "The Romantics yearned for something more interesting." Little did they realize that their yearning would one day have children (Existentialists) and grandchildren (Postmoderns).
Cosmic Christ of Scripture Chapter 9 – What Does the Bible Say
I agree that people usually identify the spiritual mind with theology and the natural mind with science. However this dichotomy between the study of Scripture and cosmos is a false one. It sounds eerily like the dualism of Greek philosophers which still pervades much of Christianity today.
This separate duality that people use in their everyday understanding of God and the cosmos spills over into their understanding of Scripture as well. Therefore it is important to have the Holy Spirit interpret our limited understanding of Scripture, Christ, and cosmos. This way we can follow a true philosophy that respects both science and theology. Otherwise, we can fall into the trap of extremes: rejection of either or equality of both.
One day, our partial knowledge will become complete, but until then we must continue to follow the light that Christ given to us in nature and Scripture. Christ alone is our only reliable Guide on this path of understanding the true relationship between science and theology. Who better than the Creator of the cosmos and the Author of Scripture?
Tamara Strickland-Bennett From my limted understanding of the difference between Christian knowledge and natural knowledge, the two are in many ways seperated, and yet because of their creator they are not.Our limted understanding of these two principles can only go so far.I ook forward to the day when we no longer see things darly, but we will be able to see clearly as our Father opens the veil to our eyes!!
Tamara Strickland-Bennett Where would the church be if god had not moved in a very powerful way through our church fathers?! Through them under the influence of the Holy spirit, the church was able to stand through very tough times and even persecution amd martydom.What i see is the great controversy being played out from the very beginnnings during the time of the days of our church fathers. Over time what stands ou in my mind is that God has carried the church through each era of time wheter pre-modern or post-modern.His Spirti will bring the "ship' in. Our job is to stay on board!!
Josian Frampton – October Blogs “Sacred Pages” “Book, Cosmic Christ” As I read through the readings on E.G White writings and their biblical connection and authority, I was reminded of my experience in reading the book “Purpose Driven life.” As I read through the pages of this book, I felt an urge to compare the scriptures in the book to the bible, and found amazingly that many of the quoted texts found in the book did not match the scripture references to which they had been linked. I was quite intrigued by that. Did the author think that people would not take note? Did he assume his audience was ignorant of scripture to not want to cross reference? Were they typos and if so why so many through out the book? As one pages through the writing of Ellen White, though not infallible, such discrepancies are not present. There is no question that this is someone who upheld to the highest regard the sola, prima and total scriptura principles relative to scripture. It appears clearly; she never sought to draw attention to the sale of her books to reel in huge profits but solely made reference on the inspired pages on the inside. I also was moved by the statement in the book ‘Cosmic Christ’ that the cosmos as well as Jesus and may I say we too (professed disciples) are books made available to the world and our life actions, displays and behaviors are the obvious pages through which the world reads and form their image of the God we profess to serve. Oh that like David we would hide those scriptural words in our hearts that we’d’ not sin against the God of Heaven.’ May the Lesser light continue to point us to this great light which light our way right to the feet of Jesus. As we interact with the world intellectually, may we never lose sight of the real word the bible?
Josian Frampton
“The Greatest Mystery” Book, Theological Turning Points Even after all these years following the death of Christ, no other historical figure remains such a mystery to the inhabitants of earth as the man Jesus. IN the book “theological Turning Point,” we continue to see the dividing views debated in centuries as early as the 300s and to this twenty first century. ‘Who Jesus is” is still tied into the debate over the trinity and the sons (Jesus) place in this ‘trio’ of divine beings. As we examine the various positions, the New Testament remains quite clear from the words of Jesus himself who he is, and left no hidden discoveries that “he and his father are one.” ‘If you see him then you have seen the father.’ Words he was accused of committing blasphemies for. Why is it so difficult to take him at his word? Does it come down again to the disregard for the ‘sola scriptura’ which continues to place us in a doubtful category? The Christology controversy has been dissected by intellectual secular minds who try to place the mysteries of God on human level. Clearly, if they had read scripture they would have seen he spoke of such, that he uses the “foolish” things of God to confound the supposed wise. Apologists and theologians continue to try and prove their points. As the text stated one such theologian wrote in favor of the words of scripture. “He who was formerly logos,….has finally by the will of God became man for the human race.” If humans would just set aside their intellectual pride and depend on the things of God then he would allow them to see with spirit eyes the deep things of God.
I continue to be in trigged and amazed all at the same time at the wealth of information being filtered through these teachings. I wonder mostly, does one size fit all when it comes to our understanding of the word? Or does God give us his knowledge based on our characters, personality etc. Does justification take the same meaning to one living bondage to sin by evil and riotous living than it would for a Christian born into religion and not having had those identical experiences? Did Christ not say ‘who is forgiven most loves most?’ Wuhu! Yes, I know ‘such knowledge is too much for me to take in.’ I would say I truly valued Trent’s definition on justification as a translation from the natural state of the first Adam to the state of grace of the second Adam. It is a wonderful thought! When will I get there? I do not know, but to know is consoling. I can in some ways identify with Luther’s anxieties on his quest to understand the “righteousness of God.” To those who seek God sincerely, it is accompanied with great anxieties as the desire to be filled seems to be unending.
Josian Frampton - Book: Cosmic Christ
Can I really have his mind?
As I read I wondered about the sub – heading the mind of Christ. I have often wondered what it meant to have Christ’s mind, and if I can why is it so long in coming. After all my sincere desire would be to get rid of this mind so prone to sin and wander, yet, it’s what I am stuck with. The explanations however on the six Greek words which defines mind produced a sense of relief in that its breakdown helped me understand how having the mind of Christ is obtainable. There was hope in the readings however, that the mind can be shaped and renewed from world views, sinful lust and desires thereby allowing for a ‘metamorphosis’ in becoming like Christ. What encouragement! The Greek word ‘aneneoo,’ which means young mind I found fascinating in this context. Simply because no matter how old the believer is when this miraculous transformation to the mind of Christ takes place this individual would have obtained a ‘young mind.’ What a wonderful thought!
I understand your concerns, of having to tunnel our way through all these reasings and thought processes. yet, of our selves balance is not obtainable. When the heart is geunine in seeking God however, the times comes when peace is given in our quest to do his will and having a reasonable understanding of who he is.
I also had the understanding that this movement in Daniel 12 was only physical. Thank God for new light. In learning that it has a scriptural conotation to it is very amazing. Any such wonder the scripture encourages us to 'study to show ourselves approved.'
75 comments:
I was reading in the first chapter of The Cosmic Christ of Scripture when I came across this idea: there is a veil of misunderstanding over the written scripture that was removed by the incarnation of Christ.
This is what struck me. We struggle to understand the scriptures and Christ came here on earth to help us understand them. But we need the scriptures to help us understand Christ. Ever feel like you are caught in an endless circle? I know I do at times. There is one point of comfort in all of this. Now that Christ is not here with us, he has sent us the Holy Spirit to guide and help us. It is with His help we can understand both the scripture and Christ.
What is it about scripture that we find so elusive? What is it that is in scripture that we find so hard to understand?
Perhaps the answer is found in who wrote the scriptures and why He had them written. Maybe the reason there is a veil of misunderstanding over scripture is because we have a veil of misunderstanding between us and God. Perhaps it was this veil that Christ came to remove and as a result, we can also understand scripture as we understand God.
I was reading through the first chapter in The History of Christian Thought this past weekend when I came across some of the Early Church fathers. The one I am thinking about the most of late was Justin Martyr.
In one way, the man is a genus. He used philosophy to counter the attacks on Christianity with reason and logic. He connected Christianity to something older to help give it validity within the Rome mind. But did he take it too far?
After reading his views on God, Christ, and the relationship between the two, I found myself asking these two questions. One, do we use philosophy (or anything else for that matter) to try and explain things in the Bible that we do not understand in an attempt to validate them? And two, where is the line between translating the Gospel into the language the world can understand and falling into the trap of incorporating the world into the Gospel?
Perhaps these questions do not apply to Justin Martyr but I definitely think they apply to us today. Are we trying to use philosophy to explain things that the Bible tells us but we don’t completely understand in order to validate them? And are we in danger of falling into the trap of incorporating the world into the Gospel when we are trying to translate the Gospel into ideas the world will understand?
What do you think?
In Hill's rapid overview of the early church fathers he touches briefly on Stoicism and its manner of interpreting the world that was encountered. He says "...the Stoics sought to achieve a passionless state of mind". Understanding that the stoics were masters of logic and reason, it is easy to see how they thought mastery of life included the exclusion of anything perceived as erratic, especially emotion and passion.
Living however in my world, it seems impossible to divorce reason from emotion and passion. If you have all the logic in the world and have no passion, where will action come from? If you have all the passion in the world, but no direction, where does all that energy go? Can we not find a balance that allows for the emotions that clearly we all have innate within us and yet does not exclude reason and logical conclusions?
It seems to me that in many churches today, there is a tipping to one side of this balance or the other. Many seem to feel that scripture and God can be understood through mind power, through logic, while others feel that God can only be experienced (what do you feel God telling you?). It is in this dichotomous relationship that people lose a grasp on God. How can we say God can only be understood through the lens we have approved? We would shove the world to choose to understand or to choose to feel.
Where is the balance of logic and emotion, both faculties given to mankind, come into play in our world now? How can I maintain such a balance in my life?
Death from God?
I am amazed again at the horrific behaviors that were exemplified in the beginnings of the church as the world now knows it. Augustine was a whoremonger, Constantine a vicious soldier, and countless other ‘church fathers’ were power hungry connivers that fought from council to council to gain power and wealth. We know from history that the church grew out of ugly times, went through times and imposed similar atrocities on the world for centuries.
How is it that God chose to use this thing we call a church to reach the world with good news? Though a perfect message left heaven, I cannot help but feel that our view of God and Christ is distorted drastically by the ragged history that the church has drug along behind it. We carry heavy baggage. Can we reach the world for a loving God with so much hate and blood on our hands? In a community that is supposed to be the most radically different and loving, how loving and different are we? Have the dark days of our past as a global community of believers been abandoned or at the drop of a hat would we abandon the God walk to chase fortune, fame and power? God have mercy! No wonder debates with Christians involved may be feared or ridiculed. It was not too many years ago that you faced death if you opposed the church or anyone who had the inside connection…
Sony Olivier
The trend of the development of Christianity and its thought as displayed in the book, The History of Christian Thought by Jonathan Hill, is remarkable. The rise and the influence of philosophy starting with Plato down to Justin Martyr, Irenaeus of Lyon, Tertullian and others projected ideas as of how the Divine should be understood.
The concept of the LOGOS as a source of divine as developed by Plato is very interesting. Could it be that Plato thought of it or identified it as the Holy Spirit through whom God sustains the world? However, it is interesting to see how John in his gospel indentifies as God made flesh. I could sense that there was battle of ideas and resistance once this new discovery had taken place. I like the way Irenaeus of Lyon put it when he declared, “The Father is the invisible of the Son, but the Son is the visible of the Father” (Against heresies 4.6.6).
Basically, one can see that changes had just started to take place within Christianity and it is no wonder that Christianity had to through so many changes before it reached its actual state. Every new idea depicted or revealed part of the divine truth somehow whether accepted or not. The concept of progressivism is clearly depicted through the history of Christianity upon God’s providence. Again, it can be seen very clearly through that depiction that God is connected to the world because for years He had been acting and involving in human affairs and in history which is a way of revelation with Jesus as the highest revelation of God.
In response to what Trav'ler Jenn said...
I agree that finding a balance between reason and emotion is important to our religious experience. Neither extreme is very healthy and tends to lead to fanaticism.
I have discovered from my personal experience that if you “feel” God is leading, you should test that feeling by the principles laid out in Scripture. If you “feel” you are being lead to do something that is harmful to others or yourself, for example, chances are that the Enemy had a hand in that “feeling”.
On the opposite end, where all is reason and there is no emotion, we don’t have a passion or vision for the ministry or the work God has placed before us and we will lean towards legalism. We need to come to the point that what breaks God’s heart breaks ours too and we rejoice over that which God rejoices over. He did not intend our lives to be a sterile blob of blah. The only way I know for this to happen is to ask God to give us the passion or vision He desires us to have.
It is rare that a book incorporates the delicate balance of a spiritual life into the realm of the world around it. I often find it hard to ignore the beauty and the lessons of the natural world AND be able to incorporate that into a spiritual aspect of my life. The physical world has always been a source of inspiration and awe for me and I have always used it as a source of drawing close to God. And it is wonderful to have such a wide base of scripture and extra-biblical materials to rely on for a base of a spiritual bond with nature.
The source of revelation of God is not solely scripture, nor is it only Christ, but God also is revealed through His creation. The world surrounding me, the people surrounding me, all serve to aim me to God. The seamless incorporation of the plural branches of revelation is fantastic. It is a balance that is often neglected in a typical church setting, a fine weaving of the physical world, the world as God has spoken of it and the world as revealed in Christ. It is only with the complete picture, with all three held together, that we are able to begin to achieve a balance in our relationship to God, and as a result of that relationship, to find balance with the people and world around us.
Biblical Numbers
A number like 9.3 million is impressive. Especially when you hear that one book has had that many copies made and shipped out in one year! The Bible has been translated into scores of languages and has reached millions. According to the stats given on pages 30 of Cosmic Christ if in one year – 1978 – 9.3 million Bibles were printed, we can do some handy calculations. We are in 2007 which is 29 years post ’78 and if we assume that the number of Bibles printed remains steady over 29 years (a big assumption yes, but it allows for both growth and decline) we would come up with 269,700,000. So we can presume that 269 million people in the last 30 years have received a Bible. With 6 billion people on the planet (give or take a million or so…) this means we would need 22 more 30 year periods to print enough Bibles for everyone on the planet to have one. In other words, not everyone will have their own Bible for another 660 years! Does this bother anyone else?
I do understand that you don’t have to have a Bible to get to know God. However, faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). What are we doing today that furthers the spread of the Word? And how many of those 9.3 million Bibles do we here in the seminary have stuffed away on a shelf, not used?
The book-Cosmic Christ was so interesting to me.
The first chapter-How to Read God's three books, cought my eyes.
The author presents Jesus Christ, the Scriptures and the creation in a very creative manner, which i have always missed.
To me, alot of unveiling needs to be done esspecailly to those who are going out to minister becouse how do you teach what you dont understand. Paul is clear on that issue, but our hope is in Jesus who is able to unveil us and make us understand the scriptures as we study it day dy day.
Scriptures have been presented to stand alone, and first among all the other revelation. I support that position it takes becouse it it trough the scriptures that we learn about Jesus, His love for us, and His plane of salvation. It is the word of God, that has been inspired, that reveals about God's creation, and that is why it comes before other revelations.
How good will it be if God unveils us so that we can understand His word better as we prepare not only ourselves, but others for the second coming of Christ.
As the scripture provides greater lighte, Ellen G.W provides lesser light and so must also consider her writtings besides our bibles for us to be well equiped for the end times.
The first chapter on the book -The History of Christian Thought, talks about Church Fathers.These were the earliest theologians, who tried to establish the basic doctrines of christianity. They tried to come out with what christians believe and why they believe.
It is interesting to me how these individuals dedicated themselves to set such a History for the future generation.
I like the way Plato encourages us to think. He believes beyond material things world and just occured to me how material thing hinder us form sprading the gospel. In the Bible, Jesus had nothing in this world. Could it be true that it will be hard for rich people to enter the kingdom?
Could it be that Jesus, Paul, Peter, were effective servants of God becouse they looked beyond the material world?
In these materialist world, how can we be effective servants of God! This was a challenge to me.
I like the way Tertullain somehow relates everything to the bible. He is so focused inthe bible and his life revoles around it. What a lesson for us to learn fron these historians. They not anly set history for me, but they challenge me in these post-modern times. It is true that the bible will never be out dated,these principles presented by these dedicated individuals left me think beyond what they did or thought.
What an interesting history!
Book Read: “The History of Christian Thought” by Jonathan Hill
• Chapter 1: “The Church Fathers”
After putting off this reading for a while, I finally faced the fact that if I am to pass this class “Understanding the Christian World” I had to read Jonathan Hill’s book; and so I sighed and settled down to start reading. In my mind I reasoned as follows: “why do I really need to read this book? It recaps the lives of others who have long since died and whose beliefs we as Adventists don’t embrace one hundred percent. So why study them? Wouldn’t it be more beneficial to study more contemporary writers, even writers who more closely share and expound upon what we know and hold dear as Biblical truth? How could these so called ‘church fathers’ help me at all? We’ve already come a long way and progressed greatly in our theological thinking as Christians, so there’s no reason to look backward to these fathers.”
Well friends, this was my reasoning before I started reading. Although I admit it was quite an immature posture, it was also an honest one. I believe even Hill himself anticipated such queries about reading this topic that he took time to address it in his introduction. He says, “The way we read the New Testament today is the product of centuries of speculation and development. And the thought of those who have reflected on Christian faith in the past remains a treasury of inspiration to those doing the same thing now.” He goes on to remind us that “even if many people no longer believe what they [the fathers] did, we are still, most of us, the heirs of the church fathers and the medieval; and because Christianity has spread across the globe…some of the things they said are worth hearing whatever your own religious beliefs are.” As I read this I softened up a bit and became open to trying to understand what the church fathers believed and had to say. From a discussion we had earlier in class, it further dawned on me that if I am to come up to the measure and stature of knowledge and to be effectively on par with other bright minds while defending the Gospel, then I have to stretch my mind and study topics I wouldn’t ordinarily choose to. And it’s funny how the Holy Spirit works within us because as soon as I changed my perspective and embraced the reading I found it quite interesting and worthy of studying!
After reading through the accounts of the various early Christian philosophers, it was interesting to see the progress of Christianity over the years, beginning with Justin Martyr who converted from paganism to Christianity and then set out to vigorously defend the Christian name. Although his non-vitriol spirit was admirable, his theology of the “logos” as being God’s divine reason being made manifest outside of God expressly for the purpose of creating the world and serving as an intermediary between God and the world, puts Christ at a lower level to God. In his view, Jesus Christ is this logos. Justin further purports that each person has a logos of their own and that human logos comes from the divine logos; and that anyone can follow the Logos by living a rational life. Thus, it is possible to follow Christ even if one has never heard the Christian message, just live a rational life! From Justin’s conclusions there would be no need for the incarnation of Christ. Today, Christians put much emphasis on the death and resurrection of Jesus. It is because of His death and resurrection we have hope. However, Justin’s viewpoint disregards the importance of the death and resurrection of Christ, the very pillar on which we today stake our hope.
The layman's definition of History as a subject is: "The study of past, present and future events. We study history, and use it as a tool to knowing the past in order to understand the present and to be able to predict the future. This concept of what history as a subject can do will put us in the right perspective as a people to master our situation and apply our hearts unto wisdom. Jonathan Hill's book has been able to serve the purpose of familiarising us with the past hitory of the Christian Church as it relates to her development right from the time of the Church Fathers. Let me say that we need to thank God on behalf of these early theologians for using them in their own little way by inspiring them to contribute immensely to the doctrinal development of the Church. Tertullian and Origen thought the doctrine of the Trinity the way they understood it, and all through the ages, other upcoming Theologians have developed on it. Anselm, during the middle ages, also touched on the central core of the Christian message when "He thinks of Christ's death as a gift that he offers to God to repay what sinful humanity stole from him. It is not a punishment for humanity's crime; it is a reparation made so that God does not have to punish anyone." The word "reparation," used here, is anchored on the work of redemption that Christ completed for msn through His death and ressurrection. We should be grateful that men like Origen, Tertullian, Athanasius, Justin Martyr, John Wycliffe, Jan Huss, to mention a few, released themselves for God to use them to consolidate and fortify the foundation of these Christian doctrines, they are legacies that we are building on today. They stood tall with what they believed in , even when their lives were at stake.
Posted today 09-27-07 at 2.30pm by Major, Cornelius Osuntade
My name is Jacques Ernst
Comment on the content from page 1-45
I REALLY APPRECIATE THE SCHOLARLY WORK OF DR HANNA IN THIS BOOK. HE TRIES TO TIE TOGETHER THREE SEMINGLY DIFFERENT CONCEPTS, THE BIBLE, SCRIPTURE AND THE CREATION. I DO NOT KNOW IF THERE IS A SUCH THEORY THAT MIXES WATER, LEMON AND MILK WITHOUT USING A SOLID. IF THERE IS A MIXURE, I BELIEVE THAT ONE HAS TO CONTROL THE REACTION. IS IT OKAY TO ADMIT THAT THE MARRIAGE THAT SUGGESTS IS AN UTOPIA-TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE. I AM TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW CAN I PUT THIS MARVELLOUS WHOLLISTIC VIEW TOGETHER WITHOUT PRIORITING ONE OVER THE OTHER,”THE BOOK OF NATURE AND THE WRITEN WORD DO NOT DISAGREE; EACH SHEDS LIGHT ON THE OTHER” CAN WE FIND HARMONY WITH DIFFERENT PURPOSES, NOT REALLY DIFFERENT GOALS? IF I CAN NOT READ HOW THE WRITTEN WORD WILL INSTRUCT ME? I BELIEVE THAT THIS CASE BELONGS TO NATURE NOT EVEN CHRIST FOR HE IS NOT THERE ANYMORE. OR CAN WE INTERPRET THE HOLY SPIRIT HAS ONE THAT IS BEING INVOLVED IN NATURE, REVEALED IN CHRIST AND THROUGH SCRIPTURE. I DO NOT KNOW IF I AM CLEAR. IN A SIMPLE SENTENCE, WHAT IS THE ROLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE WHOLISTIC VIEW?
My name is E.J
comment on the book by Jonathan Hill: a contrast comparaison of Justin and Origen vs my view of the trinity.
THE DOCTRINE HAS BEEN A CHALLENGE THROUGH THE ENTIRE AGES. MANY GREAT MINDS HAD TRIED TO EXPLAIN IT IN THEIR WEAKENSS MINDS. IT SEEMS THAT IT BECOMES MORE CONFUSING THAN THE MYSTERY OF SALVATION. JUSTIN HAD DONE GOOD JOB BY PULLING TOGETHER THE PHILOSOPHICAL THOUGHT IN CHRISTIANITY. I BELIEVE THAT HE TRIED TO HAVE A WHOLISTIC VIEW THAT CAN COMBINE PHILOSOPHY AND THEOLOGY. HOWEVER, HIS VIEW CREATES A WHOLISTIC CONFUSION IN THE DOCTRINE OF GOD. HE EXPLAINS VERY CLEAR THE WAY THAT HE UNDERSTANDS THE LOGOS. I AM WANDERING THAT IF JUSTIN MARTYR HAD THOUGHT ABOUT THE ROLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IN OUR LIVES. IF THE LOGOS IS THE BRIDGE THAT GOD USES FOR TRAFFIC PURPOSE, THERE WILL BE A CHAOS IN THE ROAD WITHOUT PRINCIPLES AND RULES. THEREFORE, THERE IS A NEED FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT AS THE DIVINE AGENT. IN OTHER WORDS, I BELIEVE THAT THE TRINITY CAN BE EXPLAINED IN TERM OF MISSION AND FUNCTION. CONTARY TO ORIGEN, I BELIEVE THAT GOD CREATED THE UNIVERSE FOR GOOD NOT FOR THE IMPROVEMENT OF HUMAN KIND THAT FELL AS SOULS. HE HAS GIVEN JESUS AT THE CROSS TO REPAY THE MISS WE DO NOT NEED TO MAKE OUR OWN ATONEMENT. FINALLY, HE GRANTS US THE HOLY SPIRIT TO LEAD US ALL THE WAY. I DO NOT BELIEVE ALSO IN A LONG SUCCESSION OF UNIVERSE FOR THE BIBLE TELLS THERE WILL BE A NEW JERUSALEM FOR ALL SAINTS. IF THERE WAS AN EDEN, THERE SHOULD ALSO BE A JERUSALEM, EDEN RESTORED. ONLY ONE THING THAT I AM STRUGGLING IF I WILL BE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE WITH GOD FACE TO FACE IN THE NEW JERUSALEM WITHOUT USING A MEDIUM.
respond to trav'ler jenn
You have done a nice job. it is an obvious question that every one should ask. how do we balance reason and emotion. i believe that one needs a broader view for that question. however, i do believe that God is a God of order. Does order mean balance, organize, or structure. if it can be replaced by balance, one can argue that life is mixed up of different kind of substance to form a solution.Paul had struggle with that thought, i want to do go but i do bad. however, he found a good answer in Philippians 4:13 NLT, "For I can do everything through Christ who gives strength. Christ as human understood that battle. Now, the real question did Christ have a balance that helped me overcome, or did he have a victory over sin?
Sony Olivier said...
I believe that the concept of the three books of incarnation, inspiration and creation is essential in a way that it gives a broader picture of God’s revelation. The idea of the cosmos as creation instead of the source eliminates the pantheistic approach of the Logos. Presumably, when considering God’s revelation, we must really consider a bigger picture as presented in these three books. This helps me to resume that God in His temporality provides a way for us as human to get somewhat a grasp of His realm.
There are some biblical approaches in order to understand them, we must grapple and wrestle with their concept. However, considering scripture as part of God’s revelation to us through which He reveals Himself and His will to us as human provides the possibility to know and to understand that which He wants us to know. As the God of science, all we need to do is to fear Him since it is the beginning of the whole process. I come to understand that the conflict between theology and science is simply a misunderstanding which happens to be there for such a long time enough that it becomes a convincing reality in our worldview. However, it does not determine the end because it is still not impossible to bring out the real aspect of both in order to analyze both ends and bring them together.
Sony Olivier comments Ernst Jacques' comment on the "Cosmic Christ of Scripture" by Dr. Hanna
You have a good approach on the wholistic concept and you raise some important questions that need to be considered somehow. I believe that the role of the Holy Spirit in this context is simply to open our mind and to have further understanding and revelation of God wholistically. Jesus call the Spirit as the "Spirit of truth." This says it all.
His role is to guide us through the process and see things in a larger view where the truth extends to a different level. That is, He will help us to get out in our circle and allow us to have a better view of the truth. The Spirit of truth will also reveal God by leading us to those sources. In this case, both nature and the written word contribute to that revelation which the Spirit consummates in our mind and understanding.
Dr. Hanna presents an arguement against those who say there is no God. By presenting God's three books as manifestations of the unquestionable existence of God, it leaves nobody with an excuse that God is not the Creator of the world. An Atheist may deny the authenticity of the Scripture as a Spiritual document, he may disbelieve Christ's supremacy and may not believe that God exists, but sure enough, he is definitely left to grapple with the evidences that abound in nature about the revealation of God who is the Super power behind the wonders of creation; for example, look at the sky that spreads across the globe without any pillars holding it isn't that a thing to think about? The three books of God, as presented by Dr. Hanna, are undisputable facts about God that are intriguingly and intricately interwoven and interconnected so much so that they " call for the exercise of a high level of faith and reason" to understand. There is a veil covering people's eyes,and making them not to either willfully or ignorantly want to believe in and understand the "cosmic Christ of Sdripture, " and the "Scripture of the Cosmic Christ. If these people turn to the Lord, the veil will be removed and they can enjoy the wonderful knowledge about the unequal Majesty of God.There is a multiple primacies of the three books of God, one is not more important than the other, in other words, all the three revolve round a circle whereby Christ has an ontological primacy, Cosmos has a cotextual primacy, and the Scripture has an epistemological primacy. The Scripture is shown in the 2nd and 3rd chapters of Dr. Hanna's book as a Christ centered book which is an authority "in matteres of faith knowledge and practice," and of course, which also espouses Christ and the cosmos as reliable revelations of God. E. G. White refers to the Bible as a "greater light" and her works as a lesser light, this to me pressupposses that the increase in the knowledge of the words of God will experience an outburst of the dazzling light of God that will illuminate the understanding of all those who will turn to the Lord in the end time to have their veil removed, the lesser light will also compliment the greater light by pointing to it and constantly assuring those who apply their hearts unto wisdom by assuring them tha they are still on course. My submission at this point is that God has not left us in the dark about Himdelf and about His plan for us, every plan for man from the divine throne room of heaven is unfolded and it is still unfolding in the three books about God: The cosmos, Christ, and Scripture.
Posted by (Major) Cornelius Osuntade this 30th day of September 2007, at 3.15am.
What stood out the most for me in this chapter was the concept of going to and fro. Daniel 12:4 states that “many will run to and fro, and knowledge will be increased.” I always understood this verse (and I now see that it was a simplistic understanding) to mean that it was the people who were going to and fro spreading whatever knowledge they had. But it has become clear to me after reading this chapter that it’s more than the physical going to and fro, it’s also an intellectual going. Dr. Hanna suggests that we need to go to and fro between Scripture passages, between Scripture and what we know about Christ, and also between Scripture and the cosmos/nature.
In each case, Scripture is the foundation of the knowledge we should build. I hadn’t really thought about Scripture being the first among the three revelations (Scripture, Christ, Cosmos). But I can now see that without it, we can easily be led astray by our own humanly finite musings. It’s only with a basis in the written Word, which we can look to repeatedly and trustingly, that we can formulate a proper perspective on the world and God Himself.
Chapter 4, The Cosmic Christ of Scripture: Are Ellen White’s Writings Biblical?
In this chapter, Dr. Hanna builds on the light he shed in the previous chapter about Scripture being the first among revelations. Ellen White, as a messenger of God, continually points us back to the Scriptures (as opposed to trusting in her words alone or first). She also often spoke about finding God in nature and the importance of object lessons in understanding God and His words. You can readily see that Scripture and nature each shed light on the other. And thirdly, she states that Scripture can lead us to an increase in our knowledge of Christ and essentially begs us to dwell on His life daily.
The idea of increasing both spiritual and secular knowledge was quite interesting to me. I assumed that increasing knowledge meant to increase only spiritual knowledge. But they sort of go hand in hand. Without spiritual knowledge, secular knowledge is blind, whether non-Christians know it or not. A quote from Ellen white that caught my attention was, “The Christian alone can make the right use of knowledge.” That could really be a big slap in the face of non-Christians, but I have to admit it is true. If we are to properly understand the things of the world, they must be understood through the knowledge that there is an omniscient Creator of the world who alone rightly knows how things work and have their being.
Dorcas Munyengwe
Understanding Scripture
Chapter 4, Revelation and Inspiration
The Moses-Aaron team of communication (p.64) is a perfect simple example of how God communicated to the prophets. I was just reminded of a story my brother told me of a preacher who needed an interpreter. The preacher was narrating the story of Lucifer in heaven and said “There was war in heaven” The man that was doing the interpretation said “There was (bwaanda) meaning (wall) in heaven.” From these two different words I can not be arguing of what each word really mean, I would look from the context of the whole story and make sense of what the story really means, in this case the word was (war) because it makes sense in the story.
On (p.65) we read that “The goal of inspiration is not to upgrade the human mode of thinking or of writing but to ensure that writers do not replace God’s truth with their own interpretations.” As Theologians, if we start arguing over little things we may miss the real meaning of what the Lord had in mind for his people. The Devil would be happy seeing theologians wasting time over who uses more Greek or Hebrew or the biggest words in biblical languages. As in the conclusion, we need to be united as Adventist, “to account for, and integrate, in detail all the evidence we find in the teachings and phenomena of Scripture relating to R-I.” By humbling ourselves before the thrown of mercy, overlooking all little and irrelevant words, the Lord will reveal to us more and we shall enjoy the Holy spirit talking through us.
The Cosmetic Christ of Scripture
Chapter 10
Are Ellen G. white’s writings relevant to the cosmos?
To recognize God in nature is a very wonderful experience. Growing up on a farm helped me to appreciate nature. As a child I used to go in the woods eating different kinds of fruits. And I could imagine how wonderful God is to have made all kinds of flavors, and my mind would just go back to (Gen 1: 12) And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. I still love plants, fruits, and vegetation as a whole. Being on the sea when others were seasick, Ellen White says “she enjoyed every minute of it.” “Oh, the wonderful works of God! So much above our comprehension! He, at one Glance, beholds the highest heavens and the midst of the sea.” He is our Redeemer. We may trust Him in the storm as well as in sunshine.” For those who are parents and those planning to be in the future, I would suggest you introduce nature as you tell the love of God to your children as early as possible. They will be able to know “God’s character, thoughts, glory, wisdom, power and the law, as “the whole natural world is designed to be an interpreter of the things of God.” As Ellen continues for “the book of nature and the written word do not disagree.”
The History of Christian Thought
Chapter 1 – The Church Fathers
Like any family, Christianity can look back through history and discover generations of forefathers. These church fathers begin in the second century with Justin Martyr and continue to the twenty-first century with theologians-in-waiting. Today’s Christians are vaguely aware of whom they were, mostly apathetic of what they believed, and practically ignorant of what they did. “The History of Christian Thought” encapsulates all three, and even places the church fathers’ contributions in the context of “how they helped shaped the world as we know it today.”
What I appreciated most about the book was its biographical information on each historical figure. It would have been easier for the author to focus solely on the theological background, while surreptitiously skimping on the personal history of the individuals. However, Hill’s dual focus on the fathers’ private lives and their opponents’ philosophical views truly enlightened me as to the reason, process, and resolution of theological development.
I believe now, more than ever, that someone’s theology cannot be separated from his personal life. Time and time again, I could guess what turn a father would turn in terms of his theology. Perhaps the best example of this intersection between theology’s theory, poiesis, and praxis is Augustine. I could almost trace a development on each of his beliefs on ecclesiology, liturgy, trinity, intrinsic nature, good and evil, sin, free will, and grace.
Cosmic Christ of Scripture
Chapter 6 – The Theme of the Bible is Jesus
In this chapter, the author develops his Christology in three areas: the place of Christ within divinity, the nature of Christ as a divine-human person, and the nature of Christ-centered connections between divinity and humanity. All three areas are necessary in coming up with a holistic view of Christ, but perhaps the most relevant is the Christ-centered connection.
Interestingly, this also tends to be the “frontman” for Christology because Christianity traditionally emphasizes the relationship between Christ and humanity through celebrity verses like John 3:16. This third area can also be the most enlightening for the reader because of Hanna’s spotlight on the social nature of humanity in the image of divinity, and the corporate nature of humanity in Adam and Christ.
First, the church seldom proclaims the importance of human persons within one humanity. In evangelism, Christianity highlights “Jesus loves me and saves me” over “Jesus loves us and saves humanity.” Perhaps Hanna is suggesting for less egocentricity in order to recognize that humanity is one. “Just as divinity is social, so humanity is social.” This is something that is not often discussed in evangelism.
Second, the church rarely declares the significance of humanity’s relation to Adam and Christ. While the image of divinity ties humanity socially together, the first and last Adams connect humanity corporately. This is important because in Adam all die, but in Christ all live. Not only is this good news for us as individuals, but it is also good news for humanity as a whole.
chapter 4 in the book -the History of Christian tought- was very interesting to me. The chapter is about "The Reformation". The Catholic church which had all the say and powers was now being shaken by various individual who did not like the way it ruled. Reformation was not only in church, but also in the art, in painting, in science, and the greatest of all being the invention of printing. To me, this was a very important periods in history for it brought many changes that we see today. Talk about the Bible and other spiritual books, people could know read the word of God. To me, someone being able to read, is something that is very important. At least people can read the right message from the bible, unlike when people could be told anything and they believed simply because they cannot be able to read the right thing or there was no printed bible or spiritual material available for proper guidance. Somebody like Martin Luther did incredible work. He is known to have brought reformation not only to the church, but also the world. He was one man who impressed me the way he was couragious and stood for the truth, though heavens fall. How good could it be if christians could stand for God the way this man did. He palyed a key role in opening the peoples' eye. He made people realise that salvation cannot be bought, and its only by faith through Jesus christ that we are saved. His translation of the New Testamentwas aimed at making the Word of God understandable and available to all since it is suprime authority as it points to christ. Beside him, were others like John Calvin who forged a systematic vision of the christian faith and life that still profoundly influences our society currently.The reformers during this period made sure that the monopoly of Catholic church has been brought to an end which gave way to the rise of other churches for example-reformed church, Lutheran churches, scotland, and others. New kind of christian theology came about, and important figures like John Wesley, challanged the people with his idea that every person is free to accept God's grace, that God graciously gives us. Is it not wonderfull that people who thought that they could be saved by their good works, could now claim salvation freely?. That Jesus died on the cross for their sins, that if only they believed, they could be saved? This message, sets the captives free, and i really thank God for this reformers who brought good news to people.
Comment on Dr. Hanna’s book: Cosmic Christ of Scripture
I was reading through the chapter in Dr. Hanna’s book that talked about Nature and its role as special revelation and it reminded me of a couple of things I read in Child Guidance by Ellen White. In the chapter, Methods and Textbooks, I found some interesting things concerning scripture. Mrs. White states that the Bible should be the children’s first textbook and nature should be their second. She says, “From nature, with now revealed the knowledge of good and evil, man is continually to receive warnings as to the results of sin.”
It seems to me, from this, that while nature reveals her Creator, she also reveals the effects of sin in the our world. I can not help wondering, does this make nature a flawed or tainted revelation?
It is interesting to note that we are flawed human beings looking at a less then perfect revelation in Nature and we look at the Scriptures (written by God through flawed men) with flawed. It is any wonder why we are confused at times when the two don’t seem to match up?
Personally, I think that even if all this is true, it would serve only as a greater testament of the power of God. Who else could penetrate such barriers and beat such odds of communicating with us then Him?
Comment on The history of Christian Thought
I was reading about Maximus in the History of Christian thought and one line in the book caught my attention. “Why was Maximus so obstinate? The issue of ho many wills Christ had hardly seems important enough to risk imperial wrath over – in fact we might think it a fairly petty and unimportant matter. But Maximus was not just a dogmatic theologian, rigidly refusing to abandon what he saw as the logical consequence of Chalcedon….The heart of his spirituality was the union of humanity with Christ and the union of Christ with God ….Just like Athanasius and Cyril before him, he recognized that what might seem like pedantic bickering over irrelevant matters actually cut right into the heart of Christianity” p. 109.
There have been many times I have sat in a class while my classmates battled back and forth under the watchful eye of our professors over what I consider to be trivial matters. What does music, or even women’s ordination, have to do with saving souls, spreading the gospel, or with salvation? Perhaps, I should look to see issues like these effect the heart of Christianity before I write then off as trivial details.
Comment on the history of Christian thought
As I was reading about the Middle Ages, I fell on Thomas Aquinas. the question about how to know God triggered his thought and it became the focal point of his quest. he provided two major sources of knowing God; reason and revelation. He also said that these two do not contradict each other.
This caught my attention because I believe that reason has its limit and it can cause problems when using it as a channel to know the divine. That is, it depends on the nature of that revelation. The question is, are all kinds of revelations reasonable. To be more specific, is the incarnation reasonable? Talking about the supreme revelation, how can one explain the fusion of humanity and divinity. Can we use reason to explain that or does faith go beyond where reason cannot?
I am saying that reason is limited reasonably and that it cannot reveal the science of God. I am suggesting that reason is a useable vehicle or a channel but its limit must be respected and known.
Aquinas developed a five way system which I think is legitimate though they are Aristotelian basically. The one that I triggers my mind is proof from change. In other words, there must be a force that allows changes to take place. For him, it is important to find out that cause. This, I believe, connects directly to Aristotle's argument about the Prime Mover.
Greetings to my friends with "Inquiring Minds," because inquiring minds want to KNOW! I was reading from the book "The History of Christian Thought" in the chap. titled 'The Byzantine Empire' and was taking in all the ups and downs of defenders of their faith, such as Maximus (b. 580-663 AD) the Confessor, who believed Christ had two wills, one human, one Divine, but both in harmony...this seems to be in line with the two natures, on Person doctrine, but was not recieved well intitially...he was charged with heresy, and had his tongue removed as well as his right hand cut off so he could not promote his teachings, which later were endorsed by the church. Since he died only a year after his injuries, he is not considered a martyr, but the next best title of "Confessor" was bestowed upon him. Several centuries later,in 949, Symeon of Byzantium was born of noble birth, but later followed his teacher Symeon of Studia into the monestary as an unusually devout monk. He had a close personal relationship with the Lord that was very enviable to me. He was challenged to a debate by Stephen, the foremost theologian of the empiral court of Constantinople and "lost" to Stephen's "hard-line logic-chopping," and was forced out of his position as abbot. He later fixed up a ruins and then when his teachings were more accepted, turned down the offer to a bishopric by the Bishop of Constantinople. Symeon, like Pelagius was concerned with holy living and a real relationship with God through Christ, but he balanced the teachings of Pelagius by including the belief that divine role in salvation is integral...we do not earn our salvation, or live holy lives by our own will power. Yet he lacked the "morbid obsession with guilt that pervades Augustine's works." He "emphazised the reality of God to the believer and the possibility of drawing near to Him," according to the author.
Symeon turned down the position of bishop because he was satisfied with who he was in Christ, I believe and found his relationship with Him the most satisfying. He seems like a Christian person worthy of study and emulation. A century after Symeon's birth, the Roman Church served the Orthodox Church with a papal bull, excommunicating the whole of the Eastern Church. Reminds me of the lyrics, "when will we ever learn, when will we ever learn?" from the Bob Dylan song, "Blowin' in the Wind" Voices of sanity seem to be mingled among all the extreme reactions...I thing of our own denomination, some had to be rebuked for "winning" arguments, thinking that that was how to win friends and influence people...didn't do much of the former, but probably accomplished the latter...not how they intended! Somehow we need to hold fast to the things that we believe esp. the things that have soteriological significance, based on Scripture, and yet respect those who have a different view. We don't usually kill people over views, although that is going on in the world, but we can "kill" with the tongue...E.G.White's admonition to not judge our opponents, but to put the "best construction" on their motives is still good advice. I'm sure Maximus would have said the same, but he'd have had to nod agreement! S.E.A.Waters
This is a comment made by Cornelius Osuntade on chapters 4-6 of Dr. Martin Hannah's book: "The Cosmic Christ Of Scripture." I want to say that the arguement put forth by Dr. Martin in favor of the writings of E.G. White as being biblical, is very timely, because of a lot of insinuations going on among some Christians and even among some Adventists as regards the authenticity of Mrs White's writing. It is true that we can not hold her writings as being above the bible, for they are lesser lights pointing to the greater light, which is the Bible, but then I consider her as a prophetess used by God, and thus, her writings are inspired of God. E.G. White does not see her works as the only source aside from the scriptures, she also "acknowldges other authorities that do not supercede the Bible." She also fell in line with the wholistic model of the three general revelation of God viz, the Bible, Christ, and the Cosmos. Her view does not in any way negate the proposition of Dr. Hannah that sees Christ as the ruler, the Church as the ruled, Scripture as the rule and the cosmos as the realm. All these, put together, put God in a broad and meaningful perspective. Furthermore, in the chapter that follows, Dr. Martin Hanna identifies Christ as the center piece of the Scripture.This chapter brings up a lot of contradictory views on the nature of this Christ of the Scripture, to some, He is divine and human, others see him as human but with a divine spirit,yet to some, He is regarded as only a creature who is not "truly God". In all these confusions, I love Dr. Hannah's conclusion that, "the best way to avoid confusion is to study the genuine Christ of Scripture." Let me also add that there may still be some dark spots in our understanding as we study the bible and wrestle with the nature of Christ,my submission is that if not for academic exercise, we do not need to bother ourselves about the mystery of Chrit's nature. What the Blble reveals to us about Christ are enough for our salvation, and coupled with the explanation of Hannah in the next chapter about the Christ centerdness of E.g White's writing, we have enough materials to use as well as other inspired writers.
Cornelius Osuntade--10-31-07 6.00am
Chapter nine in the book " The cosmic Christ", talks about what the Bible says. It is interesting that most of the time we assume simple things, like the previladge to see, smell, walk hear. We asume that all people can see and so when we meet one who cannot see, we get surprised. it is good that we realize that, there are blind people in this word who cannot see, and maybe some of them were born that way,and have never seen any light in their world. In the same way that those who are blind cannot see, so, those who have eyes cannot read in darkness. Even if they have eyes, they need light to see. Christians need adequate light to read clearly the word of God.God, who is light reveals His light to us through scripture, Jesus Christ and the cosmos.Though God is light and He reveals Himself in the above mentioned forms, sometimes we miss Him because of Sin. When God created the world, He intended for us to have a personal relationship with Him, to talk with Him face to face, but sin brought a gap between us and God, and that is why we are sometimes afraid of God because we have sinned against him.The sin still blinds us to see His(God's) light clearly.Since sin has all ready distorted His love, we are warned against other things like false philosophy,worldly wisdom and false science, which can push us further from God's light, but instead go for true wisdom and knowledge which is found in God and in His revelation to us-scriptures, Jesus Christ and the cosmos.The more we will seek Him, the more He will reveal His light to us, and the more we will overcome sin hence His revelation of the light more clear to us too.
It is a challange, that its only by faith we shall overcome this blindess of Gods light. Jesus overcame it, and through Him, we shall be overcomers too. It is a promise that when we shall come to take us home, then sin shall be destroyed, and all things shall be clear, the light of God shall be clear than ever. lets trust in, lets keep our faith in Him, and in due time, all shall be revealed, to us, perfectly as it was intended befor sin.
This was an interesting assurance to me as i read the chapter.
Comment on the Cosmic Christ of Scripture by Dr. Hanna
The affirmation of the writings of EG White as a guide to Scripture is very important, especially now-a-day. Many people in our midst regard her writings as authoritative as the Bible. It is very unfortunate that these people miss the whole point of what God intended to do through her.
She encourages us to go to and fro in order to increase our knowledge. This should indicate that by going to and from seeking for knowledge, the probability of discovering new light is very high. However, since the cosmos and nature are part of that process through the light of Scripture, I believe that the probability for heresy(ies) to be filtered in is also high. Therefore, Isaiah 8:20 is one of the keys that would enable us to verify those lights.
The increasing of knowledge can cause problem for many. having said that, I am asking is it possible that God would retain that possibility to some knowing that it could be a stumbling block for them. But again, would God impose His will on individual's freewill in that context?
How necessary is the increasing of knowledge for one's salvation if it will not be extended to everyone? In other words, does my salvation depend on that increasing of knowledge? I believe that knowlege is very important and essential in the time that we are living. However, how we use that knowledge is even more important because knowledge can lead someone to Christ just like its misapplication can destroy the path for someone else.
It is interesting, and also very revealing, the way the history of the Christian church has been evolving. The three chapters under review in the book, "The History of Christian Thought," by Jonathan Hill, have succeeded in given me a vivid picture of a past that is solid, based on the commitment of the early Christian fathers, who sacrificed their lives to ensure that we get to where we are today in the history of Christianity. We experience a situation now, whereby, God is being pushed out of our existence. It is very sad to say that the legacy passed down to us by these committed early Christians is being daily trivialized by our non- challant attitudes towards Christianity. It amazes me to see the swift transition that occurred from the seriousness of the Reformers to a modern era that sees God as an outcast who is not needed in our world. The modern era has brought with it an unprecedented enlightenement in science. "The scientist believed in God, certainly, but they believed in him as a sort of last-ditch scientific hypothesis to be appealed to when nothing else could be found." With time, as the modern era progressed, so many philosophies started rearing their ugly heads with their heels being raised against God and His sovereignty. For example, the theory of humanism believes that man is the ultimate, not God anymore. Darwinism says we human beings evolved from apes, while logic and reason de-emphasize the wisdom of God. Thank God for a few philosophers like Schleirmacher, Soren Kierkegaard and Newman who, though were also philosophers, still held up, to some certain extent, the banner of Christaianity. With the arrival of postmodernism, Christianity is about to be totally submerged, with anything God being completely relegated to the background, this leaves me to have a deep thought on the question that Jesus Christ asked His disciples, "nevertheless, when the son of man shall come back, will He find faith on earth?" Let us keep our fingers crossed to see what Christianity will turn to in this postmodern dispensation. Be that as it may, I still have a strong faith that God is still in control of all things. He will win in the end because He has never lost a battle, HE WILL NOT LOSE OUT TO POSTMODERNISM.
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Cornelius Osuntade, this day, 10-31-07 at 9.00pm
i was reading chapter 9 of the Cosmic Christ of Scripture and it reminded me of a Bible study i had this past week. we were discussing how to minister to those who don't believe in Scripture at all. how can a person believe the words of the Bible from "scratch"? page 107 discusses the distinction between Christian knowledge and natural knowledge. but "revelation does use natural channels". hebrews 1:1 gives evidence to us that our forefathers were spoken to by God through prophets and "in various ways". so is it correct to believe that all people, no matter what background they come from, carry both a Christian knowledge and a natural knowledge? and that their natural knowledge is what makes them receptive to the "supernatural evidences" of the things not seen? even today we see the "various ways" that God speaks to us, and all of us in the seminary have heard "God meets us where we are". this is something that has been on my mind not only for my own ministry, but for my own life as well.
nature + revelation = education. in reading chapter 10, this idea really tied in well with the book Cosmic Christ of Scripture. ellen white writes extensively on this equation. from the opening line of steps to christ, to the quote mentioned by professor Hanna. "every law governing the human system is to be strictly regarded; for it is as truly a law of God as is the word of Holy Writ." it is amazing to be reminded of God not only in Scripture, but how often do we reflect on God through nature? ellen white illustrates it the best by saying "Jehovah has written His law with his own finger upon every thrilling nerve, upon every living fiber, and upon every organ of the body." if we want to remove more of the veil that covers our eyes, we need not look any further than nature because it reveals so much more than we think.
Chapter 10, The Cosmic Christ of Scripture: Are Ellen G. White’s Writings Relevant to the Cosmos
I really loved the story about Ellen White’s ocean excursion – and can relate. God is so revealed in nature, whether it’s the grandeur of the ocean or the precision of a spider’s web or the beauty of a field of flowers or the peace of a warm, still day. I think we would do well to look for God in the cosmos every day – search for Him until we find Him daily, whether it be in a miniscule bug or the nighttime stars. It’s true that He is attempting to reveal Himself to us all the time, and that “the whole natural world is designed to be an interpreter of the things of God.” But so often we miss it or ignore it. And that is OUR nature – to be so preoccupied that we overlook how God is trying to speak to us. To be so enveloped by our own desires and needs that we forget or neglect to search for Him who can satisfy our desires and supply our needs.
It is also amazing to me that even though this world is so sin-scarred, we can still find beauty, symmetry, perfection of form, wonders, logical natural laws, and so on. And even in our less than perfect state, we can still perceive God and His work in the cosmos. And it’s striking to note that God is willing to use us less-than-perfect beings to speak His mind, so to speak. He didn’t just write it all Himself like He did the Ten Commandments, but entrusted His finite, feeble creatures to make sense of it and iterate it and pass it down through the generations.
The History of Christian Thought, chapter 1: The Church Fathers
I have to admit that I didn’t have much interest in the church fathers, but I now realize the importance of them and the foundations they laid. I can only imagine what it must have been like for these early thought leaders at that time. They were the first to grapple with some of these monumental issues and attempt to put their thoughts into a logical framework. They weren’t the eyewitnesses of the Cross and the events surrounding it, so they tried to take what they knew to be true, or believed to be true, and use that to inform the answers to their questions. I wonder how I would have done at such a huge task!
We’ve already discussed in class the majority of the church fathers, so I want to focus on one we haven’t discussed. Although Augustine is abundantly interesting, I’m focusing on Pelagius, especially in light of what we discussed about predestination and foreknowledge. One of the prevailing thoughts of his time was “if we are predestined to sin or grace, why make any effort?” (p. 78). Pelagius railed against this kind of thinking. But it seems that as he condemned the idea of predestination, he missed the mark when it came to overcoming sin. In his interpretation, Christians are not only able to live right and perfect lives through their own volition, it is also their responsibility to do so. What a disappointment all of humanity must have seemed to him, and how out of reach salvation must have seemed to those who listened to him. This kind of thinking gives no hope, belittles Christ’s sacrifice, and encourages man to overstep their boundaries while trying to reach the perfection that can only come from God.
Rudolph Sterling
The History of Christian Thought
Chapter 1: The Church Fathers
The Church Fathers steered the young church through the turbulent cultural and mythological currents of the pagan world. Their writings offered guidance and assurance to early Christians whose faith was not only doctrinally challenged, but who often incurred persecution and even martyrdom. Found in their works are fascinating glimpses of the early centuries following the birth of Christ, and there records give rich insight into the growth and history of the Christian Church. Spanning the times and events from Justin Martyr to Cyril of Alexandria.
Beginning with Justin Martyr who promoted the idea that Christ is the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, the source and completion of all that is true in Greek philosophy. He avoided Marcionism and answered a widespread Christian concern that philosophy might lead inevitably to heresy.
In dealing with the trinity, Tertullian was the first to speak of God as one substance in three persons, as a unity of substance but trinity of persons, although he had a decidedly subordinationist view of the relationship of Son to Father. However the contribution of Athanasius and the Cappadocians Fathers like basil, Gregory of Nazianszus and Gregory of Nyssa who purported that the father and son are essentially the same.
The fifth century brings Cyril of Alexandria who became embroiled with Nestorius, patriarch of Constantinople, who was preaching that Mary was not the Mother of God since Christ was Divine and not human, and consequently she should not have the word theotokos (God-bearer) applied to her. He persuaded Pope Celestine I to convoke a synod at Rome, which condemned Nestorius, and then did the same at his own synod in Alexandria. He believed that Christ was fully human and fully divine. Cyril who was unscrupulous and was notorious for killing his enemies is considered to be author of the orthodox doctrine of Christ.
Rudolph Sterling
Chapter 2
The History of Christian Thought
The Byzantine Empire
Byzantine Christianity was a substantially different religion and cultural practice than Latin Christianity. One of its predominant characteristics was the role of the emperor in matters of faith. The Byzantines, however, inherited the Roman idea that the emperor was near divinity and practiced a form of Christianity where enormous ecclesiastical and theological authority was vested in the emperor. This eventually created a breach (the Iconoclastic controversy) between west and east. The Iconoclastic theologians believed that the worship of images, or icons, was a fundamentally pagan belief. It was Leo that turned the tide against the Muslim in 717. But Islam was opposed to the worship of images, thus Muhammad’s destruction of all the idols and images in the sacred Kaaba in Mecca. The Iconoclasts then, were in part inspired by the religious purity of the Islamic faith. However it was ironic that Iconoclasm would help the Byzantines regain territory conquered by the Muslims, but it was opposed by the papacy.
One must pay attention to the rise of Islam as mentioned in this chapter for it seems as if almost all of Byzantine energy was focused on Islam. The Muslims very quickly conquered Byzantine territory in Syria and Egypt largely because of disaffected populations of Christians and Jews who had been persecuted since the time of Justinian. The Muslims as a military and spiritual power influence Christianity in several ways one of which was a Sufism a rich spiritual tradition and philosophy that influenced Christian theologians such as Thomas Aquinas.
Chapter 4 Hist of chrstian thought
The Reformation no doubt was catalyzed by the renaissance. The discovery of new the world and new ideas and the advancement in technology helped to create the turbulence that shook the Catholic Church at its theological foundation it planted by the church fathers and was cemented throughout the middle ages. The old adage is true “knowledge is power” In my mind this question is begged; what has Columbus, Michaelangelo, and Galileo to do with theology and church doctrine? Though I will not attempt to answer that question at this point but one would agree that it does call for reflection. In the theological sphere men like Martin Luther used this rebirth of learning to change both church and world. In 1517, a dispute about who was entitled to a cut of the revenues generated by itinerant papal indulgence sellers provoked the controversy that led Luther to nail his 95 theses to the church door at Wittenburg. The upshot of Luther's theses was that Christians are saved by faith, and faith alone, and that no amount of works, including the purchase of indulgences, made any difference at all.
The right to read and interpret scripture lead to the throwing off of the chains of papal and ecclesiastical authority; and taking this to mean political and economic freedom as well, there were widespread revolts among the German peasantry. This horrified Luther and many of the civil powers. It was not the desire of the intellectual reformers to challenge civil authority, but it was a consequence. Thus politics and the church became confused.
It is generally said that Calvin did not really add anything particularly new to Protestant theology in the Institutes, but he gave much more logical and analytical structure to its doctrines. His book was an effective educational tool, intended to be the foundation for organizing a new Christianity. Calvinism is strongly identified with the doctrine of predestination, but this was not really a novel view, it was implicit in St Augustine's work of centuries before. It was Calvin's legalistic explanation of the significance of it and other standard articles of Protestant confession that made the difference. It is ironic that the citizens of Geneva, a people who were so determined to be free from an oppressive church hierarchy, who held as an article of faith the priesthood of all believers, and who were fanatical about the liberty to study and interpret the scriptures for themselves, should end up establishing a theocracy where the Kingdom of God was so rigidly enforced. Incidentally, the Lutherans and Calvinists came to despise each other.
Eventually the church mobilized itself to deal with splintering of its authority and held the Council of Trent. It was the purpose of this council to try to define a common ground of belief and practice for all Christians, and to attempt to heal the schism. It opened in 1545 in the last years of François's reign, but it healed nothing. There was little hope that the Protestant views would be truly accommodated and honestly debated, and the end result was that Trent ended up reinforcing the more uniquely Catholic aspects of religion in contradiction to the Protestant practice. The special place of Mary was reaffirmed, for example, as well as the role of devotional works, the sacraments, the saints and angels, the role of Latin in worship, the sole privilege of the clergy to interpret scripture, the primacy of the pope, and all the other traditional trappings.
Rudolph Sterling
Good job Catherine, you are raising an important issue with regards to the use of philosophy to explain things in scripture. Whereas theology in itself may not be wrong and is sometimes needful one must be mindful of the temptation to use philosophical rational to interpret scripture to fit one’s theology. The early church fathers did not always philosophized correctly the first time but their philosophy laid the foundation on which others build on, while gaining better understanding along the way. If time last, someone will look at our current philosophy and while appreciating it would make improvements.
Rudolph Sterling
The Cosmic Christ of Scripture-chapter 3- Let the Holy Scriptures Speak
Traditional Adventist explanation of Daniel 12:4 is narrowed to an increase in knowledge in the secular science and traveling through and fro in the earth and into outer space. This view was especially purported by the Evangelist during evangelistic meetings as a sign of the last days and the soon return of Jesus. Dr. Hanna seems to be saying there need to be a more holistic interpretation of the text. One must appreciate his calling for the primary meaning of the passage in its context and that is the text is talking out biblical knowledge which shall not be illuminated until a certain point in history. The Angel told Daniel to shut up the Prophesy until such time when that particular passage of scripture will speak for itself, thus the title of this chapter “let the holy scriptures speak.”
When the scriptures are allowed to speak, and to interpret themselves they reveal Jesus, but to real hear the scripture one must go through and fro in them and then one’s knowledge would be increased. What about the increase of knowledge in the secular sciences and the going through and fro in the earth and into space? Were the traditional interpretations of Daniel 12:4 wrong?
One must agree that an increase in the knowledge in the science of archeology for example does shed light on scriptures. Discovery in astronomy authenticate scripture, for scripture says “the heavens declare the glory of God and scripture speak of a moon before man was able to visit and study it. It seems that when the scriptures are allowed to speak not only do they explain themselves but the also a reciprocal relationship with science were they shed light on each other.
Rudolph Sterling
The Cosmic Christ of Scripture-chapter 6- The Theme of the Bible is Jesus
Dr. Hanna did an excellent job in this chapter by showing the relationship between the divine persons. The Trinitarian concepts of the Godhead are not easily understood let alone explain, this struggle is not new, the early church fathers had difficulty grasping it. Of the three persons in the Godhead, Jesus Christ seemed to have received the most discussions. His person as son of God and son of man, whether He is fully man or Fully God has spark many controversies. The scriptures however, are not silent concerning Jesus, intact Jesus made a mold statement by saying; the scriptures testify of Him. One can reason then that the scriptures are about Jesus in whom there is eternal life. It is of interest to note that Jesus being the theme of scripture began in Genesis obvious in chapter 3 and follows always through to Revelation chapter 22.
Another important issue in this chapter worth noting is the divine humanness of Jesus that makes Him unique in His ability to connect humanity to divinity. Jesus’ nature allows Him to act as both redeemer and restorer of relationships amongst humanity with humanity and humanity with divinity.
Rudolph Sterling
The Cosmic Christ of Scripture-chapter 9- What Does the Bible Say?
The Cosmos as a book of God’s revelation in an intriguing concept; this is traditionally expressed as general revelation in nature. The scripture states “the heavens declare the glory of God and shows His work” psalm 19. This expression seems to be saying that the cosmos is shedding light on who God is. In another place the scripture states “Jesus is the light of the world” John 1. The scripture is also described as a light that shines more and more into a dark place. 2 Peter 1:19. Note how the interconnection of light between the Cosmos Scripture and Christ are complementing each other.
Another concept that jumps of the pages in this chapter is this; the Cosmos is not a revelation only in the sense of scientific revelation but also theological revelation. What does this mean? Well, the Cosmos is the context in which theology is done; it is the context in which humans meet God and experience God, His love for and His work on behalf of humanity. For example it is the biblical stories of the exodus and the wilderness experience, Jesus’ work on behalf of the poor, the diseased and the disenfranchised as narrated in the gospels we see God’s dealing in a tangible way with human. That is inarguably a revelation of the character of God that is done in the context of the Cosmos, done by Christ and spoken of in Scripture.
Rudolph Sterling
chapter 4:Are Ellen White's writings Biblical?
As i went through this chapter, i was amazed on how it was presented. I felt like running around the whole world to call people to come to read to what Ellen wrote and said. Her last public speech still lingers in my head since i read it "Brethren and sister, i commend unto you this Book.' Without another word, she closed the book, and walked from the platform. It was her last spoken word in the world assembly". Since she has written numerous books, someone can think, she was promoting one of her books. Since she was of age, we could think she gave her last speech to encourage people to buy and read her books, since se received visions on how to write them. She had all the reasons and evidences to promote her books, she had a golden chance to do that, in her last public speech. But it was amazing, i was touched, when i read that sentence, that in her last speech, she held up the Bible, and told the people to read it well, from the beginning to the end, from new to old testament. It is funny how people can ask if her writings are biblical, yet all she does, is to direct people to the bible. Form her mouth, her books were never ment to guide our daily living, the Bible and Bible alone should be our daily guide. She refered to the Bible as the only rule of faith, practice ans knowledge. If this was her stand, then why should we question her writings?If she pointed us to the Bible, why question what she wrote? It is funny how we dont question most writings like biology, or physics, or history, yet we question the writings that point us to the reading of the Bible. Maybe it is becouse of sin that we do so, maybe is it becouse of the great contraversy, between what is right and wrong that we question the writings that points us to read our Bible more and more. She commented this way "If they dont speak according to God's word, there is no light in them", What does this tell us aabout her or her writings? I felt that i will never question her writings again. I invite others to read for themselves what she says about her writings and what she says about the Bible, and they will be surprised, they will never questioin her again.
Infact, i did not know that she advocates for people to read and read, both secular and material writings. She wants us to be informed and never to be left behind in any area. She wants us to have reason for the things we do or the faith we have. To me, this lady was powerful. We encouraged people to ready and have knowledge both spiritual and secular wasent she wholistic?
Chapter 3 "the middle ages', of the book 'The History of christian thought " cought my eyes.
It is amazing how we think that there was never a world before us. When we turn on the lights in our houses, we never think of the times when there were no lights. When we read our Bibles, do we stop to imagine that there were days when we did not have the Bibles, or any ther book, no clases? More that anything, we should thank those people in the past who have worked to see we have all that we need today. Nobody should be seen any lesser, all need to be honoured, for all played important role to bring the world to its current status.The middle ages were in the 13th centuary, when grat cathedrals and monasteries were built throughout Europe. What interests me most is the fact that new breed of theologians arose during this times. There was unity of faith and religion, reason and philosophy, and it seam very intersting how all these interacted to one another.
I thank God for some times when they happen. Nowonder the book of Phillipians tells us to always rejoice, not forgeting that all things happen for the good of those who love the Lord. During the dark ages, the political unity collapsed, and so people did not trust the government anymore. What did these lead to?
This lead to people looking for security somewhere else.People found peace, love and unity in the church. This reminde me of what the Bible says that those who trust in the Lord, shall never be put to shame, they will be filled with joy that surperses understanding. To me, this was a time when people came to realise that, the state cannot offer unity, only God does through the church. We should put our trust in God and not the worldly human leaders.
It was interesting reading this chapter.
As I was reading about the middle ages in the "History of Christian Thought" by Jonathan Hill, I was attracted by Anselm who, with his thought, tried to prove God's existence. The way he approached it is every interesting. I like the fact that he started with the Word. In his philosophical approach, he tended to use logic to make his point which was perfectly relevant and which I believe was successful.
This idea, I believe, was used by Descartes in a different way. This time, Descartes is using his own existence. In trying to prove God's existence, he says "I am, I exist is true whenever I conceive it or utter it." In other words, his own existence was a proof of the existence of the Spurnatural God.
In that way, he simply twisted it a little but the essence of Anselm's thought was present.
Reading from Dr. Hanna's book in chapter 7 to more specific, it is interesting to see how Mrs. White made Jesus the center of her writings. With no doubt, she expressed herself deeply about Christ and how salvation is from Him alone. This has a connection between Dr. Hanna's approach in chapter six where he desribes and reveal how Jesus is the center of Scripture.
Therefore, it would be absurd for and useless if the writings of Mrs. White would have for center Jesus Christ. As the Supreme revelation of God, I am asking how nature, without emerging into pantheism or pannentheism, reveal Jesus? Or Does nature reveal God in His wholesomeness without necessarily reveal God in His functionary aspect?
Back to Mrs. White. It is interesting to see how she describes Jesus as powerful and equal to God but yet as human to live among men. She just attacks and displays the mystery that no human mind can grasp and no human intelligence can explain. I see faith and faith alone that can allow us to accept this mystery and I believe that God must put us in that position in order to know that there is so much our mind can take and that we must rely on Him.
I wanted to comment on Brother Rudolph's comments on "Let the Scriptures Speak" about how we must be balanced in how we interpret the Scriptures. The example was about how our evangelists, (SDA and other denominations too, I believe), have interpreted the words in Daniel, "many shall run to and fro and knowledge will increase" as pertaining to scientific and technological knowledge, but that many scholars believe it is primarily talking about prophetic and biblical knowledge. I agree, but I think that God can have two or more levels of truths in His prophetic messages. It reminds me of the iron and clay mixed together in the "Metal Man" statue of Daniel. Gold was used in Babylon, Silver by the Medo-Persians, Brass was used in Greeks for armour, and Rome was the "iron monarchy", (not that these metals weren't used by other kingdoms, but they represented them in a special way.) Iron "mixed" with clay don't really adhere together, just like the European countries couldn't seem to fully unite, tho' they tried very hard thru' strategic marriages. But someone pointed out how the world, esp. the Western world, is largely built with iron, (steel) and clay, (cement, brick and mortar). I think God is a poet and with His foreknowledge He was able to symbolize things at several levels, but that it is very important to get the primary meaning of His words/messages, (in this case prophetic words), thru' sound exegesis and not to go off on any old tangent...Lead by the Spirit, and guided as well by the whole Scriptures... That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Ernst Jacques
The Cosmic Christ of Scripture
When one analyzes the current trend of theology in the Christian World views, one has to understand that nothing is more complex than the book of nature-Cosmos. The inspired author had seen it long time before, “ The study of the cosmos itself is indispensable and leads to a knowledge of God.” (Qt from Hanna, 63).
I am wondering if it is implied that our understanding of nature must be developing in a daily basis so that we can experiment the truest love of Christ. Will that be possible to understand nature with Christ? If not, how can we show the deity of Christ through nature? Is nature a source of information or formation?
I am fascinating by Dr Hanna’s view on “the Cosmic Christ of Scripture”. He provides a new insight on how to understand God through history and nature.
The History of Christian Thought:
Our church fathers had struggled with the same concept “how can God manifest his presence in the cosmos? Can the humanity and the divinity be active in the cosmos? Our Fathers were sincere Christians, devoted their time to understand the complex things. They may have made some mistakes, however one can not ignore their contribution in Christian thought. How can someone forget about the work of pseudo-Dionysius? They have provided us on the economic power of God-Hierarchy. They introduced this word into Christianity to show us that God is God of order. In the extreme side, they think that God is only sentimental God. In a simple word, we can only experiment God through senses, not in an intellectual level. This view is against many Church Fathers who advocate knowledge as the way to know God. I am not against that view, but It gives birth to what we can call today “feel good theology”
Ernst
Response to "Knowledge issue"
It appears that most of our church Fathers were engaged in the same battle, fighting against the Gnostics who believe that God steps in to limit watching the rebellion or His mistake. Furthermore, in the early Christian Schism, the main battlelines in the second and third century was focused around the “orthodox” Christians and the Gnostics.
When we come to the seventeen century, Galileo famously spoke of that book, “Galileo (1564-1642) : “Philosophy is written in this grand book, the universe, which stands continually open to our gaze. But the book cannot be understood unless one first learns to comprehend the language and read the letters in which it is composed. It is written in the language of mathematics, and its characters are triangles, circles, and other geometrical figures without which it is humanly impossible to understand a single word of it”.
Now, the battle became more complex at the arrival of modern science. Can it be proved scientifically the deity of Christ in cosmos? If it is in the language of mathematics there must be a theory to prove “The Cosmic Christ of Scripture”
Approaching the twenty first century so called post modern, they are asking themselves what The Cosmic Christ of Scripture can do for me while possessing the required knowledge to survive? Right now, they are not trying to disprove the Cosmic Christ of Scripture, but rather they are trying to understand Him in their educational level. I believe that is the reason why we have so many theories on “evolution”.
My comment this evening is in response to Part Four of Dr. Hanna's book, "The Cosmic Christ of Scripture," subtitled: How to Read the Book of the Cosmos: Christ in the Light of General Revelation. Some, such as my ethics professor, claim there is no such a thing as an atheist, but before I was a Christian I at least thought I was an atheist. Someone else has said that the claim is made in despair at not finding God, whatever the case may be, in spite of the beauty of creation, and the vastness of the night sky, I thought the savagery of many aspects of the animal world was a strong evidence that the God of the Bible was a myth. Dr. Hanna makes the point that "Divine redemption is presented as a matter of empirical fact in the context of a cosmology of creation and fall, (Genesis 1-3)..."
It would seem to follow that one could learn something about an artist by his/her artwork, how much more so with the Creator and creation, but if we don't know that an intrusive element has distorted the creation, then we will include a false impression of the intentions of the Creator. I.E. the Biblical and foundational teaching of Genesis helps us to interpret the cosmos, or the nature we live in, correctly. I would like someday to see the human necessity of joy in relation to the light that the Cosmos sheds upon the revelation of God, since joy in relationship, (including the willingness to sacrifice one's personal, physical interests for others), will be shown, I believe to be a powerful evidence of God in the sense that we thrive when we develop a character that doesn't really mesh with our natural inclinations, and that we are wired for God, to worship Him, and that the death and destruction that we experience is foreign in a sense, something we rebel against at our core. "He has put eternity in their hearts." The Cosmos in the Light of the Christ of Scripture is exceedingly relevent to our world!
As we round up this posting exercise, I want to say that the cosmos has become a standard evidence for the scientist to prove the existence of God. Dr Hanna, in part 4 of his book, presents a tenable argument that there is "harmony between theology and science.The Christ of scripture unveils His creation." A scientist who does not believe in God nor the Bible, and who refuses to acknowledge that the cosmos is an adequate revelation of God's power, can not be a successful scientist. Has such a scientist sat down to think about the sky as spreading all over to every country of the world? The sky is there with no pillars holding it, and yet it has not fallen on us! What about those big waters that spread across from Africa to Europe, and the United states and other parts of the world? Have such unbelieving scientist thought about an invisible power behind the sky and the waters? We need to pray for people who refuse to acknowledge what the Bible says about the reality of God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit, and the power in them. Since according to Dr. Hanna, the "Scripture depicts the revelation of God's word in terms of the metaphor of light(Ps119:105)", then I submit that our scientist friends need the dazzling light to illuminate their dark minds."Ellen White proposes that neglect of the light of God in Jesus, Scripture, or the Cosmos results in false science and a false theology which are not Christ centered." This statement is quite true in the light of the fact that the greatest scientist is God. Why have I said this? It is beacause His creative and sustaining power give an empirical evidence provable in the cosmos. In another vein, A Christian who is born again must have passed through a unique experience, this experiece is not gotten from the empty space, rather it must have been derived from reading the book of Christ, the book of cosmos and the book of Scripture. In conclusion,We can not separate the books of Cosmos, Christ, and Scripture from one another, they are all complimentary to themselves. As we get ready to go to heaven, we should pray continuously that we will continue to receive more light to guide us in reading those three books so that we will make it on the day of Christ's appearing. Amen. Posted by Cornelius Osuntade (Major) this 30th day od November, 2007 at 6.50am.
Comment on The History of Christian Thought
As I was reading this book, the section of Dietrich Bonhoeffer caught my attention. One of the topics that have been of interest for me is World War II. And in actuality, it was his life, more then his theology that caught my attention. He grew up just in time to be martyred by Hitler for his resistance in the name of Christ. Actually, he resisted the Nazi regime because he was apposed to mixing government and theology.
I find it hard to believe that Karl Barth encouraged him to return to Germany, even though it would mean that Bonhoeffer’s life would be in jeopardy, so that he might be of help the struggling church. He did return and was of great help to the church right up until his arrest. It seems God still had a work for him to do for he was allowed to write papers and letters while in prison right up until his death.
I have a great admiration for those who do not just talk, write, and preach theology but rather live it. Dietrich Bonhoeffer was one such man. I think it is a challenge presented to us. Are we willing to not get caught up in the trappings of religion, but rather live our relationship with God? Are we willing to walk not just talk?
Comment on the Cosmic Christ
Reading through the chapters on Ellen White reminded me of a challenge examine I took at the beginning of this month. The examine was on Ellen White, her writings and life. In my preparations, I went over the tests of a prophet. One of them is that the writings and teachings of the prophet must line up with the scripture. And as I was reading through the book, it seems like Dr. Hanna was doing that very thing. He did not mention it as a test of a prophet but that is understandable. If I am guessing right, his intended audience wasn’t mainly Adventists. In the first pages of his book is an invitation to anyone, no matter their background.
Anyways back to the topic. I found it quite intriguing to compare what Dr. Hanna was doing with the writings of Ellen White. He compares what he found in scripture in regard to scripture, Christ, and the cosmos to what she has to saw. It was something that I hadn’t seen the first time I read the book.
So, Dr. Hanna, what of the other tests of a prophet? Or is that a topic of another book coming in the future?
In my readings of "The History of Christian Thought" I was reading the sections on Process Theology, Liberation Theology and Feminist Theology. They are interesting to me in the truth that they contain, but I see that they are either inherently unbalanced, (Process and Feminist Theology...my opinion, of course), or have a real tendency to swing to unbalance, namely Liberation Theology. Then in the midst of these readings I read about Jurgen Moltmann, whose theological approach is refreshing for his time. He at least tries to get back to the basics of theology, which is Christo-centered. His 'testimony,' if you will, was very needed at the time he wrote his major books, "Theology of Hope," "The Crucified God," and "The Church in the Power of the Spirit" (1964-1975). He emphasized the cross as showing that suffering is part of who God is...I would say that love always risks suffering, and that is why God suffers now, since the Fall of Lucifer and mankind. The author's mild criticism of Moltmann's message of hope to the suffering, (that God sympathizes and experiences the pain as well), as being not satisfactory to those who continue to suffer, may be helped by the fact that God does not only suffer Himself and sympathize with us, He offers His Presence, that tho' it doesn't answer all the questions of suffering, does in a mysterious way, answer the longing of the heart. (As with Job) Also suffering does have the potential to get one's attention (!) and to possibly open the way to a dialogue with God and understand the evilness of sin...It can be our end, or our beginning...Any way I admire Moltmann's desire to get back to the central truth of God's revelation in Christ, even tho' he may have gone a bit too far in claiming that ALL our knowledge of God comes from Christ. (In a sense, anything that is true about God was provided by Christ, but I don't think that is what he meant...) I also think that Joy and Love are the most basic characteristics of God, not suffering, but imbedded in love is the willingness to suffer for the objects of that love.
In the middle of chapter 10 in the book "The Cosmic Christ of Scripture", there was a clear explanation of the relationship between science and the Bible that Dr. Hanna drew out. And i seem to communicate with people who seek out a scientific explanation for everything in the Bible. we know people who will believe in God, as long as God can be scientifically proven. and if that's not there, then there can be no God. it made me think that when it comes to religion, you can give 9 reasons why that there is a God, but if they can find a fault in one, then it's all false. People have a tendency to look for ways to negate something.
And in reading this chapter, this was becoming clearer to me. But Dr. Hanna writes that a correct understanding of both nature and the written word will ALWAYS prove them to be in harmony. One does not contradict the other! the book goes on to say that in order to restore harmony, we even at times "undermine" or "destroy" the word of God! what is most important to us? the harmony or the truth? both are, but do we truly believe that nature and the word will always be in harmony?
Jonathan Hill, in his book, makes a brilliant and well elucidated contribution in the area of the development of the history of the church. The way he divides the various period of history into segments, gives the reader an easy sequential flow of thought that facilitates easy grasping of the contents. He explains that after the conflict of the period of reformation fizzled out, the challenges of enlightenement, grafted in the modern and postmodern eras, started to rear their ugly heads, and coupled with the issues raised by modern science, theologians needed to come out more daringly to face what Jonathan Hill said " would shake their very assumption to the core." However, we need to thank God for raising theologians "who were more than equal to the challenge. For instance, "at a time when Christianity seemed to many to be in its death throes, impaled on the cold reason of the Enlightenement, Schleiermacher saved it from an ignominious retreat into irrational Pietism." Also, Moltman tried to lift up Jesus in the midst of all these confusions as the primary revelation of God when he argued that, " Christ is the starting point for our understanding of God. In other words, instead of starting with an idea of God and then modifying it by reference to Christ, we simply point to Christ and say 'That is what God is like.'" Since the time of the arrival of modern and postmodern eras, Christainity has been faced with secularization, God is been pushed out of man's situation, and the theory of humanism, which states that man is more than sufficient to solve his own problem, has taken over. The theory of evolution, proposed by Darwin for instance, expressly denies God as the creator of man, saying that man evolved from apes and underwent a period of transitonal levels which finally brought him to his present human level. Deism proposes that God created our world and stood aloof from it. Pantheism says God is in everything, but not a God you can pray to.All these and so many more are various challenges facing Christianity today. Where are we heading to? Jesus asked His disciples a fundamental question, which is, "when I come back, will I meet faith on earth?" The disciples could not answer that question. This is an era of postmodernism, are we going to have another secular era evolved from it before Jesus comes? If yes, what will it offer Christianity. If no, what will be the end of all these confusions about postmodernism? One thing I know is that, God will triumph in the end whether the secularists like it or not, because it is not realistic and visible that the clay will be wiser than the potter to the extent that it will be the moulded pot which will have the final say.
Posted by Cornelius Osuntade (Major), this 30th day of November 2007 at 5.50pm.
Book: The History of Christian thought
When reading this book, there is one man that Hill explains in the opening paragraph that has stuck with me through this semester. This book describes and explains many of our church fathers, but the way Hill opened the chapter on Irenaeus of Lyon, has been on my mind. it wasn't anything profound, but it was a valuable lesson.
In reflection, his theology is descibed by Hill as being "profound" and "quite striking", especially to those more used to a Western Christianity. But to his contemporaries and people of his time, he made little to no impact!
I found myself asking "who will be finding our work today as influential to them in the future?" God must have an audience out there for us, even if our contemporaries find little benefit today. We even may get discouraged but Irenaeus shows first hand that God has a plan for each of us. it was encouraging to see this in the life of someone who made such an impact on the history of Christian thought.
Cosmic Christ of Scripture
Chapter 3 – Let the Holy Scriptures Speak
Reading the Bible from an exclusive approach can negate Scripture's call to hold it as epistemological primacy AND seek other revelations. Often this attitude is held by those who reject an inclusive approach. In trying to avoid the opposite extreme, these Bible students fall into the same trap of compromising the proper authority of Scripture, Christ, and cosmos.
According to Hanna, Scripture provides a model for Bible students that shows that the proper view of secular and spiritual science. The book of Daniel presents Hebrew captives who were skilled in both Babylonian knowledge and divine wisdom. In fact, God is seen as the giver of knowledge and wisdom. This is relevant to Christians today because Daniel 12:4 predicts an end-time where both secular and sacred knowledge will be increased.
But all of this "increase" must occur within the framework of running "to and fro" a) within all of Scripture b) between Scripture and Christ and c) between Scripture and the cosmos. Ironically, the unique primacy of each revelation actually supports the unique primacy of the Bible. The epistemological primacy of Scripture allows for the ontological primacy of Christ and the contextual primacy of the cosmos.
Without Christ, Scripture would have no meaning, and without the cosmos, Scripture would have no application. These ideas seem basic, but they are profound. These foundational concepts must become guiding hermeneutics in the proper study of Scripture.
The History of Christian Thought
Chapter 3 – The Middle Ages
St Francis of Assisi was a friar from the Middle Ages who is known today for his prayers and canticles. But his legacy was much greater than religious poetry. Francis unwittingly founded a new force in the church: friars. Unlike monks who had secluded themselves, friars identified with the world.
This was significant. The friars' consciousness of the downtrodden in the 13th century planted seeds for the social theology and action of the 20th century. These Franciscans merged with the Dominicans to become the "mendicant orders." Their immediate impact was in traveling, begging, and establishing academic centers.
But the mendicants' ultimate legacy was their brilliant scholars of the 13th century. Theologians like Aquinas, Bonaventure, and Scotus helped formulate Christian theology in the Middle Ages.
Francis could never have imagined his small group of friars would become the genesis for 13th (ecclesiological) and 20th century (social) theologies. Francis and his friends were not interested in either of these fields, but it was his theological legacy more than his poetic legacy that helped to mold the Christian world. Perhaps contemporary Christians should consider the unwitting effect they may have on future generations the next time they get together with their friends to write spiritual prayers.
The History of Christian Thought, chapter 4: The Middle Ages
I thought it would be interesting to look at a time period known for the Dark Ages and Feudalism to see what kind of Christian thought was occurring then. Anselm’s proof of God’s existence and doctrine of salvation are intriguing.
His ontological argument of proving “God’s existence from an analysis of his nature rather than from observing the world” is both an interesting idea and tricky. I get a little lost at the end of the proof, but I enjoyed how he took one verse that speaks of both fools and God in the same breath and uses them as a launching pad to show that what a fool already believes can itself prove the existence of God. It’s rather clever.
I also liked the use of dialogue to describe the nature of salvation. Instead of speaking above the heads of the ordinary person, Anselm (and others) used written dialogue to ask the logical and likely questions of the readers. I also noted how influenced by his cultural context Anselm was. And if I’ve learned nothing else this semester in my classes, I’ve learned that we need to look at the culture each person (whether biblical or secular) was writing in to get the appropriate meaning – and not just accept it at face value or reject it out of hand.
Diane Ingalsbe
The History of Christian Thought, chapter 4: The Middle Ages
I thought it would be interesting to look at a time period known for the Dark Ages and Feudalism to see what kind of Christian thought was occurring then. Anselm’s proof of God’s existence and doctrine of salvation are intriguing.
His ontological argument of proving “God’s existence from an analysis of his nature rather than from observing the world” is both an interesting idea and tricky. I get a little lost at the end of the proof, but I enjoyed how he took one verse that speaks of both fools and God in the same breath and uses them as a launching pad to show that what a fool already believes can itself prove the existence of God. It’s rather clever.
I also liked the use of dialogue to describe the nature of salvation. Instead of speaking above the heads of the ordinary person, Anselm (and others) used written dialogue to ask the logical and likely questions of the readers. I also noted how influenced by his cultural context Anselm was. And if I’ve learned nothing else this semester in my classes, I’ve learned that we need to look at the culture each person (whether biblical or secular) was writing in to get the appropriate meaning – and not just accept it at face value or reject it out of hand.
Diane Ingalsbe
The History of Christian Thought, chapter 6: The 20th Century
I have been intrigued by Dietrich Bonhoeffer for a while, but I didn’t know a whole lot about him. Perhaps what I like best about him (aside from the fact that he was willing to stand up for God and what was right) is his concern for practical matters: “Our task must be to live a Christian life and understand how Christianity can be relevant to the modern world.” He recognizes that the world now thinks that it can get along just fine without God and implores us to look for God in the ordinary and in our day-to-day affairs. His emphasis on God as opposed to religion is also insightful. So many people are disillusioned by organized religion and turn away from God altogether. If they could only realize that there is more to God than religion, they would be better off. And that’s where we need to come in – we need to guide people to the living, saving God and not be so concerned about numbers of baptisms in a year. We also need to be God’s representatives here on earth and allow God’s light to shine out from within us daily.
Bonhoeffer’s thoughts on God’s powerlessness and suffering (“The Bible directs man to God’s powerlessness and suffering; only the suffering God can help.”) are useful in reminding us that God didn’t come here in all His glory to save us, but rather in all His meekness.
The History of Christian Thought
Chapter 5 – The Modern Era
Perhaps I should be analyzing the profound theological implications of this book, but by its end it felt like a good story. I enjoyed its narrative that tried to connect everything together. The author drew explicit and implicit comparisons and contrasts between ideas, philosophies, lifestyles, cultures, movements, organizations, and even people.
One particular movement I kept thinking about was Romanticism. One of my most treasured memories in college was Professor Ed Wilson's British Romantic Poets class. Now that I better understand the historical background and theological figures of Romanticism, the greater I appreciate these poets. Bryon, Wordsworth, Coleridge, Shelley, Yeats, and Keats are more real to me than ever.
Their reaction against the enlightened Age of Reason helped move Christianity from head and doctrine to heart and nature. Schleiermacher's belief that religion lies in "feeling" rather than in "doctrine" unwittingly laid the groundwork for the Existentialism of the 20th century.
Just like Schleiermacher's complex relationship with Kant, Romanticism was not just reacting to, but also developing the Enlightenment. This reminds me of Hill's line, "The Romantics yearned for something more interesting." Little did they realize that their yearning would one day have children (Existentialists) and grandchildren (Postmoderns).
Cosmic Christ of Scripture
Chapter 9 – What Does the Bible Say
I agree that people usually identify the spiritual mind with theology and the natural mind with science. However this dichotomy between the study of Scripture and cosmos is a false one. It sounds eerily like the dualism of Greek philosophers which still pervades much of Christianity today.
This separate duality that people use in their everyday understanding of God and the cosmos spills over into their understanding of Scripture as well. Therefore it is important to have the Holy Spirit interpret our limited understanding of Scripture, Christ, and cosmos. This way we can follow a true philosophy that respects both science and theology. Otherwise, we can fall into the trap of extremes: rejection of either or equality of both.
One day, our partial knowledge will become complete, but until then we must continue to follow the light that Christ given to us in nature and Scripture. Christ alone is our only reliable Guide on this path of understanding the true relationship between science and theology. Who better than the Creator of the cosmos and the Author of Scripture?
Tamara Strickland-Bennett
From my limted understanding of the difference between Christian knowledge and natural knowledge, the two are in many ways seperated, and yet because of their creator they are not.Our limted understanding of these two principles can only go so far.I ook forward to the day when we no longer see things darly, but we will be able to see clearly as our Father opens the veil to our eyes!!
Tamara Strickland-Bennett
Where would the church be if god had not moved in a very powerful way through our church fathers?!
Through them under the influence of the Holy spirit, the church was able to stand through very tough times and even persecution amd martydom.What i see is the great controversy being played out from the very beginnnings during the time of the days of our church fathers. Over time what stands ou in my mind is that God has carried the church through each era of time wheter pre-modern or post-modern.His Spirti will bring the "ship' in. Our job is to stay on board!!
Josian Frampton – October Blogs
“Sacred Pages” “Book, Cosmic Christ”
As I read through the readings on E.G White writings and their biblical connection and authority, I was reminded of my experience in reading the book “Purpose Driven life.” As I read through the pages of this book, I felt an urge to compare the scriptures in the book to the bible, and found amazingly that many of the quoted texts found in the book did not match the scripture references to which they had been linked. I was quite intrigued by that. Did the author think that people would not take note? Did he assume his audience was ignorant of scripture to not want to cross reference? Were they typos and if so why so many through out the book? As one pages through the writing of Ellen White, though not infallible, such discrepancies are not present. There is no question that this is someone who upheld to the highest regard the sola, prima and total scriptura principles relative to scripture.
It appears clearly; she never sought to draw attention to the sale of her books to reel in huge profits but solely made reference on the inspired pages on the inside. I also was moved by the statement in the book ‘Cosmic Christ’ that the cosmos as well as Jesus and may I say we too (professed disciples) are books made available to the world and our life actions, displays and behaviors are the obvious pages through which the world reads and form their image of the God we profess to serve. Oh that like David we would hide those scriptural words in our hearts that we’d’ not sin against the God of Heaven.’ May the Lesser light continue to point us to this great light which light our way right to the feet of Jesus. As we interact with the world intellectually, may we never lose sight of the real word the bible?
Josian Frampton
“The Greatest Mystery” Book, Theological Turning Points
Even after all these years following the death of Christ, no other historical figure remains such a mystery to the inhabitants of earth as the man Jesus. IN the book “theological Turning Point,” we continue to see the dividing views debated in centuries as early as the 300s and to this twenty first century. ‘Who Jesus is” is still tied into the debate over the trinity and the sons (Jesus) place in this ‘trio’ of divine beings. As we examine the various positions, the New Testament remains quite clear from the words of Jesus himself who he is, and left no hidden discoveries that “he and his father are one.” ‘If you see him then you have seen the father.’ Words he was accused of committing blasphemies for. Why is it so difficult to take him at his word? Does it come down again to the disregard for the ‘sola scriptura’ which continues to place us in a doubtful category?
The Christology controversy has been dissected by intellectual secular minds who try to place the mysteries of God on human level. Clearly, if they had read scripture they would have seen he spoke of such, that he uses the “foolish” things of God to confound the supposed wise. Apologists and theologians continue to try and prove their points. As the text stated one such theologian wrote in favor of the words of scripture. “He who was formerly logos,….has finally by the will of God became man for the human race.” If humans would just set aside their intellectual pride and depend on the things of God then he would allow them to see with spirit eyes the deep things of God.
Josian Frampton
Blog Postings for November 08
Oh to Know Him!
I continue to be in trigged and amazed all at the same time at the wealth of information being filtered through these teachings. I wonder mostly, does one size fit all when it comes to our understanding of the word? Or does God give us his knowledge based on our characters, personality etc. Does justification take the same meaning to one living bondage to sin by evil and riotous living than it would for a Christian born into religion and not having had those identical experiences? Did Christ not say ‘who is forgiven most loves most?’ Wuhu! Yes, I know ‘such knowledge is too much for me to take in.’
I would say I truly valued Trent’s definition on justification as a translation from the natural state of the first Adam to the state of grace of the second Adam. It is a wonderful thought! When will I get there? I do not know, but to know is consoling. I can in some ways identify with Luther’s anxieties on his quest to understand the “righteousness of God.” To those who seek God sincerely, it is accompanied with great anxieties as the desire to be filled seems to be unending.
Josian Frampton -
Book: Cosmic Christ
Can I really have his mind?
As I read I wondered about the sub – heading the mind of Christ. I have often wondered what it meant to have Christ’s mind, and if I can why is it so long in coming. After all my sincere desire would be to get rid of this mind so prone to sin and wander, yet, it’s what I am stuck with. The explanations however on the six Greek words which defines mind produced a sense of relief in that its breakdown helped me understand how having the mind of Christ is obtainable. There was hope in the readings however, that the mind can be shaped and renewed from world views, sinful lust and desires thereby allowing for a ‘metamorphosis’ in becoming like Christ. What encouragement! The Greek word ‘aneneoo,’ which means young mind I found fascinating in this context. Simply because no matter how old the believer is when this miraculous transformation to the mind of Christ takes place this individual would have obtained a ‘young mind.’ What a wonderful thought!
Josian Frampton - Commenting on Jenn"s writings.
I understand your concerns, of having to tunnel our way through all these reasings and thought processes. yet, of our selves balance is not obtainable. When the heart is geunine in seeking God however, the times comes when peace is given in our quest to do his will and having a reasonable understanding of who he is.
Josian Frampton
Commenting on Diane's Ingalsbe writings.
I also had the understanding that this movement in Daniel 12 was only physical. Thank God for new light. In learning that it has a scriptural conotation to it is very amazing. Any such wonder the scripture encourages us to 'study to show ourselves approved.'
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