Wouabe i enjoyed your comment and share all of your concerns on the topic. to me scripture is the the most powerful guide that is available to us today. i agree with you on the point that scripture is the only christian rule of faith. scripture stand in harmony with creation and they work together to point us to God. i think that Dr.martin did a great job with the topic and it seems to me you are enjoying the book.
Quigley Morris point to an important lesson that can be learned from those that went before us: witnessed for the truth with the life and death to bring us the sacred deposit that God has given to us, His Word. We should also live our lives so that we are such a witness.
Quigley Morris also points out that there are many who try to tear down what god has been building all these many centuries, His church. His church will go through, the question is will we go through with it.
Alain Blaise Wouabe commended both faith and reason to us. I do agree that faith and reason can work together. Anselm of the Middle Ages had a saying that says it well faith seeking understanding. At least sometime we must believe to understand. This world has many Doctors of theology that seem to do more doubting that believing, which results in much wrong teaching and confusion.
Alain Blaise Wouabe also rightly points out that right interpretation depends on divine in the here and now.
Brother Kenton had a quotable comment this month! He declares that God does not desire to be hidden, but it takes a lifetime to understand Him. Praise the Lord because His ways are not our ways.
Kenton's comment also stood out to me! Too often we try to 'humanize' God, thinking that we can somehow fully understand Him, but seriously, there's a reason why He is GOD.
AND yet, He gives us more than enough to be able to know and experience His mercy, love and grace.
Andrew's comment "This self-reliance can easily lead us into a Jewish experience in which we fall short of fulfilling our ordained purpose in these last days" was also another that stood out.
Since we're all here in the seminary and we're getting an excellent education, there is the tendency to think that we're better than 'all those people' out there (or even in here for that matter). It is so important to not miss the big picture and to always stay connected to Him.
Paragis i understand your pain and i share in your concern on the difficult answers that are require to help someone who does not believe in God. and to me what makes it even more difficult is the fact that the bible does not prove that there is a God. have you notice that God does not try to prove that he is God. when Moses said who will i say send me God reply was "I am that I am" so we must have the faith to believe. the bible says it is impossible to please God without faith. so when i meet this difficult people i just offer a pray and let the Holy Spirit to guide me. our battles are long and hard, our pains are deep and consistance but the day is coming when the world will know who is the kings of Kings.
The Cosmic Christ of Scripture: How to Read God’s three books looking at page 17 where it talks about “removing the veil of misunderstanding which covers the hearts and minds of people when they read Scripture” is something I simply want to comment on. Regarding the veil that blocks the truth, I believe that it is something we all have because of our background or original condition. We will have a bias view b/c our lens is based on our view and culture and society. Another problem is that we are born shape into iniquity. We have no desire to seek CHRIST. Instead, CHRIST comes to us and through life help us remove the veil of misunderstanding. My general understanding of the veil of misunderstanding is Sin but it may be a misunderstanding in my part. I think that the veil of misunderstanding can be a rejection of Ellen G. White as a prophet. In may case I have a veil of misunderstanding of who was Ellen G. White. The result to my veil that came on me was the result of false representation of Ellen G. White. I later got a true representation of the person of Ellen G. White and now no longer have I a misunderstanding of her purpose. Can a veil of misunderstanding also be based on misunderstanding? Can a veil of misunderstanding be a result of someone falsely presenting something to you of others (Ellen White)? Can the veil of misunderstanding that the world have of Christ be the cause of us? So called Christians who have given those in the middle questioning reasons to have this false veil of misunderstanding? From my own experience, I have both cause other to be drawn closer to CHRIST and not so close to CHRIST. Do we ourselves have a veil of misunderstanding when we believe to have a veil of understanding and we claim to have the truth? The truth is not an end but the continuous knowledge or revelation in which concludes in Christ. I think the one who claim to not have understanding in his searching is most likely the one whose veil of misunderstanding is removed. For he leans not into his own under standing but leans in CHRIST.
I agree with Quigley that the pioneers worked very hard and for very long hours to get the understanding of scripture that they attained and have past down to us but the current culture of the day is to get it quickly and instantly and to rely mostly on the efforts of others while committing to very little effort ourselves.
I think that Guibert's comment concerning faith and the love of God was beautiful. It is true that we cannot explain his existence and we have caused to let it be true that we believe in him nonetheless. As christians I believe that though information innundates us and the cold world is daunting to us we must continue to have a sure faith because only through this way can we begin to know who Christ is and who we are. It is only through this that we can truly love. God Bless.
Kenita Spencer Revelation, Inspiration and Hermeneutics September 27, 2009 Comment on Assignment 1
Robert, I’m with you. If not for the Holy Spirit where would we be? It is tremendously comforting that if we are led by Him, we will do proper hermeneutics.
My comment: I would like to comment on Wouabe's posting on September 6, 2009 comment 1. Reading your posting made me realize that there is always room for growth. The more educated we get the more we run the risk of thinking we know it all. Reading how you interacted with the chapter and brought key teachings of it into a personal application is evidence that you have a teachable spirit. And I agree with you, in dealing with the understanding of who GOD is, weather it be through the reading of Scripture or any other means “we need to be tolerant enough with those who don’t think like us”, simply because we do not know everything.
How do we help someone who has a veil of misunderstanding? What do I do in the process to help in the removal of this veil of misunderstanding in a friend? We know that people may be so sure of what they believe, enough that they will give their life for it. And still be completely wrong. They will persecute you believing they are doing the will of the Lord. Saul now Paul did exactly that. Yes, prayer is import and asking what does the Lord have me to do? I have many friends who veil of misunderstanding is so strong I am concern. In Paul’s case Christ revealed himself. Did Christ remove the veil of misunderstanding from Paul? I do not think that when Christ removed the veil, that it was against the desire of Paul. Christ did what was needed but the answer was still Paul to make. Paul accepted the call knowing what the price was, death. If he wanted to save his life Paul would have accepted to still be under the veil of misunderstanding. I think pride is one major factor that keep people in this veil of misunderstanding. Has we look at Romans 1:20-28, how do we see this in light of the LORD keeping the veil of misunderstanding in this group of people? I am not sure if I understand the veil of misunderstanding correctly. (I may still have a veil) The question I have is that, are we completely free of the veil of misunderstanding? 1Cor 13:11-12 I am still learning and had some incorrect views. So is the veil of misunderstanding the rejection to be humble and learn from everyone, the lack of maturity, experience and/or those who rejected Christ?
Jacqueline, Jacqueline you are very right on the role of the Holy Spirit when it comes Biblical interpretation and hermeneutics. Indeed the Holy Spirit guides and illumites our mind so that we can have a clearer understanding of God and thus we draw nearer to Him. I also agree on your statement that “The Holy Spirit is the hinge on which our faith and reasoning hangs when it comes to understanding the Scriptures
Comment on Wouabe's post on Chapter 3: Let the Holy Scriptures Speak! from “The Cosmic Christ of Scripture: How to read God’s three books”
I resonated with Wouabe's comments concerning our tolerance and openness to other schools of thoughts. Indeed, Scripture is to be taken serious and it has, by many, for a long time. By no means do such comments propose that we bring our guard down as students and Christians. Instead we must recognize that our quest for truth includes many faithful and Bible believing Christians. Why not learn from and appreciate our neighbors? Why not share- by now means does that mean "prove" our beliefs- our beliefs with others?
Jose, I agree with you that it is good that Dr. Hanna brought out the importance of our devotional lives. I think that we have to use that God-given good sense when we study the Bible, and also pray to God for wisdom and understanding so that we don't misunderstand what the Bible is telling us. After all, we wouldn’t want to read that Judas hung himself and then tell everyone that the Bible is telling us that we should go and commit suicide.
Geographical, cultural and religious factors within Judaism have a credit for the development of three major distinctive approaches to the interpreting scripture. Rabbinic Judaism approach was promoting obedience to Mosaic Law and Hebrew scripture in order to protect Jewish tradition and identity from being diluted. Hellenistic Judaism adopted allegorical interpretations of scripture thought by Philo to accommodate its beliefs to the platonic expression of Greek philosophy. The ascetic Qumran community based their interpretation on eschatology, trying to show contemporary events relating to their own community fulfilled OT prophecies. Christianity came from rabbinical Judaism context and expanded through the realm of Hellenistic Judaism before its challenges posed by paganism during the Roman Empire. Christ and the apostles emphasized on the exclusive authority of scripture over all other sources of religious knowledge. They did not followed hermeneutics of Judaism. Post- Apostolic Christianity lost its original hermeneutics by accepting the hermeneutics of Greco- Roman culture. During the middle ages, Biblical interpretation was dominated by Origen’s allegorical method of interpreting scripture; this method of interpretation helped the medieval church to claim biblical support for many of its non-biblical teachings. Some bible interpreters rejected the allegorical approach to scripture. During this same period Antioch Christian catechetical school also came up with historical-grammatical method of interpretation. During the time of the reformation, interpretation of scripture was focus on sola scriptura and tota scriptura- allowing the bible to speak of itself as a source of authority. Method of interpreting scripture from the days of Judaism to our modern time has gone through different principles of interpretations. Even today theologians and many denominations continue to argue on which principle is the best method to interpret scripture. They all hold on to one principle or the other. The development of the Seventh - day Adventist church method of interpreting scripture could be traced its genesis from the Millerite framework. Seventh-day Adventist continues to hold on to sola scriptura and tota scriptura as a means of interpreting scripture.
Cosmic Christ of scripture in its first part talks about how scripture teaches about Christ. According to scripture Christ is not a philosophical principle or energy diffused throughout the world. Christ is instead the creator of the universe. Many people find it hard to understand scripture because of their rejection of Christ. They reject Christ because their minds are blocked. It takes only Christ to open their minds for them to understand. To the writer many bible students have a problem of focusing on Christ who is the living word, for the fear of forsaking the authority of the writing word. Christ and scripture goes hand in hand. For scripture does not forsake Christ in the world, neither does Christ forsake scripture. Scripture reveals Christ to us while Christ points us back to scripture. Both are God’s revelations to the world. This idea was discussed under the following headings: three scriptural principles; three revelations of God and relations between theology and science. Latin words, sola scriptura- all scripture, tota scriptura-scripture alone and prima scriptura- scripture first are the technical terms which serves as a guide for reading God’s revelation through scripture. God’s three revelations as revealed in this book are scripture, Christ and cosmos. All these revelations of God have it own primacy. In these we have ontological primacy of Christ, contextual primacy of the cosmos and the epistemological primacy of scripture. The relations between theology and science focus on how to fit these lines of revelations into the study of theology and science. From the reading we can conclude that bible reveals to us who Christ is, and Christ is one of the medium through which God reveals Himself to us. Scripture itself is another form of God revelation to His creatures. Cosmos also by its beautiful design reveals to us the intelligent creator God. For theology and science to relate they need to acknowledge this fact of revelations.
As I read the eighth chapter of Understanding Scripture, entitled, “inner biblical interpretation: reading the scriptures intertextually,” I was drawn to the mentioning of christ throughout the reading. I just pulled a few out that really interested me. Jesus is the center for inner biblical interpretation. He is the head of the new creation, the new Adam, the new Moses, the new Joshua, the new Israel, the son of David, the new Isaac, Solomon and Elisha, the consolation of Israel, the new covenant, the ultimate sacrifice, the high priest, the holy one of God, the prophesied shepherd, the bread of life and the sanctuary of God (pg 143-145). From the perspective of Jesus and of the NT writers, the most important reason for the use of the OT in the new is to establish Jesus’ messianic authority and identity and to show that the he is the climax of the history of Adam, the patriarchs and Israel. The institutions of historic Israel, including the sanctuary and the festivals, find their purpose and their significance in the life of Christ (pg 147 #6). Jesus cites the OT to show how he stands in continuity to its revelation and to show that he implements its principles. Nevertheless, even with such continuity, who Jesus is exceeds, by far, what was predicted about him (Pg 146 #9). The NT use of the OT is grounded in the belief that Christ is the end or goal of the law (148 #14).
The Cosmic Christ of Scripture: chapter 3 “Let the Holy Scriptures speak.” The author begins to speak on the role that the scriptures play in most peoples lives. Drawing upon the similitude of children who are seen but not heard, reference is made upon the silent but ever present nature of the unspoken word. The author then begins to open the book of Daniel in relation to the increase of knowledge in the latter days of earth’s history. It seems that during the close of time that the essence of wisdom that can only be found in the scriptures will be revealed. Herein we find the crux of this chapter. The author states that it is only through Christ and the cosmos that true knowledge of the scriptures can be obtained. The scriptures point to Christ and Christ opens and unlocks the light that is found within the scripture. Apart from Christ there can be no true understanding of the scripture for the scriptures are a testament of the incarnate Christ. In these last days Christ will reveal more and more of himself through the scriptures to a dying world that he seeks to save. It is through Christ that the lamp of scripture can continually shine. Brighter and most radiantly as the revelation from Christ is manifested to the mind that is mutually attached to the power behind the inspired text.
as i read ange's comment on the cosmic christ and true understanding, i pondered this: where do we find understanding and is it an attainable attribute. can it be gleaned or taken in the hands of mere mortal man or is it elusive. does true understanding rest in the heart of mankind or is it something that's given by one who is divine. the essence of understanding is otherworldly, superceding and transcending the cogitation of mankind. it is higher than the highest human thought can reach. it is able to transpose itself on top of preconceptions and suppositions. christ came, christ died, christ live, christ is coming again. believe...understanding comes later
In response to John Coaxum’s comment on Chapter 2.
It seems as though the words “reason” and “doubt” can be interchangeable. “Reason”, when it comes to scripture, often carries skeptical connotation that waits for proof. I may be incorrect but I believe that doubt/reason serves a purpose. (1) Without reason people would believe anything. (2) Faith cannot exist with doubt. It simply cannot -- like light cannot exist without darkness. I don’t think John suggested that we need to snuff out reason from our approach to scripture in fact he encourages it. However Christianity is in dire need of a church/body that is full of thinkers; people that can accept the inconvenient truth of faith and reason and unapologetically choose to believe in spite of it.
I have never really thought before how scripture takes precedent over Christ. At first when I read it, I was hesitant, but I realized that Scripture was given to us, in order that we can know Christ better. It is a direct link to Christ. How can know Christ if we don't know scripture? This is why it's so important that we search and study for ourselves
I appreciate and agree with what John said. We must understand the primacy of Christ and also see the authority of Scripture. Also like John said about the Pharisees, we can learn from them as Adventist. They put scripture or doctrine above the primacy of Christ. All things must point back to Christ in our ministry and in our sermons.
I really enjoyed reading Johns comment, “Is it Safe to Disregard the Prophet Ellen G. White?” I totally agree that there is much controversy and honestly some animosity over whether Ellen G. White’s writings are necessary for the church. The point John brought out in his comment on the necessity of testing the prophets was significant and is something that members in the church need to be reminded of before possibly throwing out one God has inspired to speak by his spirit.
Mark, I really resonate with your testimony. You said,"my realization of who I am in contrast to His glory and Holiness causes humility that places me in dependence and submission to Him and His will. Recognition of His love and His commandments demands my obedience, immediate and unwavering".. I too grew up in the church, the only difference is I grew up in the SDA church. I relied on the tradition of those around me without a true personal knowledge/experience of God. My moment of truth came when in a desperate attempt to find my place in the grand scheme of things, The Holy Spirit lead me to Jer 29:11-13. Since then I live in awe that I have the purpose of telling others about Him.
I must say I have had a different experience than you have. I have not purposefully thought about reading Scripture through a direct link to Christ in every aspect. I have always read the Bible through the lens as a follower of God who seeks to know what God’s will is for my life and those around me. In other words, I have read it more Theocentrically than a Christocentrically. I wonder the ramifications it has knowing that we serve a God of one than is both transcendent and imminent.
Robert Best comment, One important aspect that Best brings into focus which needs to be commended for was the fact that the Holy Spirit makes hermeneutics possible. Although we may bring our presuppositions on the bearing scriptural text, but without the Spirit of truth leading us we are bound to make humanly approaches to divine issues.
In response to Guibert Etienne's comments on Chapter 2 of Cosmic Christ:
Guibert, I wholeheartedly agree with your desire to lead lay-people back to Scripture. Many Christians, even highly active ones, spend virtually no time reading or studying Scripture themselves. You said, "What is needed is a re-education of Christians of the proper method of bible study." I agree. The question in my mind, which stems from my experience in pastoral ministry, is not so much "What is the correct method of Bible study," but "how can we motivate people to study?"
The only answer I can offer in answer to this question is that our motivation must be a pull rather than a push. It's easy to tell people "You should study the Bible more!" It's tempting to preach a sermon an how important it is to study the Bible. But ultimately these things are probably not too effective. What I propose will be more effective is our modeling of Bible study. When people see that we are studying and reading the Bible ourselves on a daily basis, they will be more likely to rise to our level. The church won't rise above its leader. Additionally, we leaders must model correct hermeneutics. If we stand up in the pulpit and preach a sermon using metaphorical preaching, people will get the idea that that is how you study the Bible. I prefer to do simple exegesis and model it consistently. Examine what the text says. Then take that understanding and apply it to our lives.
Ainsworth Chambers said... Topic: Ellen G. White Writing vs The Scripture. Is Her Writing Really The Lesser Light?
Concerning Ainsworth’s question from on Ellen G. White, I think that it is a good one. Even though the question is still broad to me, I think that you are saying, yes we say that her writings are the Lesser light, but our descriptions and views of her writing does not but her as the Lesser light. If her writing was available during the time of the selection of the books in the Bible her book could or, but more it would have been selected. How do we balance this understanding, and still call her the Lesser light when she has all the requirement needed in term of the Word of the Lord as the Bible. I think that we must be aware of the different groups in the church: the fanatical, the liberal and those who have a balance view of her writing. It seems to me that we have more on the fanatical or liberal and less in the balance view. One view is if that Ellen G. W. said if we read the Bible like we should have, then we would not need her writings. So I will read the Bible more so I do not have to use her writing. This is unbalance thinking because her writing is for your benefit so now that it is here why not use it. In my experience, I had a negative view on Ellen G. W. because of the fanatical who still today present her writings not the lesser light but the final answer when we cannot find a clear answer in the scripture. So is that the lesser light? In the church you are looked upon as a person with problems when you are not ready to accept Ellen G. White. If she is the Lesser Light, why I am not allowed to take my time to accept her and if I decide not to accept her why is that a problem. Is my salvation, which is the Main and Only Point not possible? I believe in Christ and Christ is the one who leads me in His truth. When we are dependent on her writing, and when she is our base of proving our point instead of using the scripture to do so, I believe that we have put her writing equal or more than the scripture. I will recommend doing a study on who and what Ellen G White said about herself in the book “The messenger of the Lord”. I took this class with Dr. Hanna and it was a blessing to me. I had many of my questions answered. One struggle is that if you live a pure life and the Lord inspires us in putting together something i.e a sermon, a book or etc… Can I view this work also has a lesser light? To me I think that is still the only clarification I need.
I believe that in the last day The Lord will raise people with visions and dreams. How long do we test and make a work of someone, who The Lord used in a specific work as Ellen White was used, should that person works be seen as lesser light. I do not think it is healthy to stop at Ellen G. White as the only prophet in our time. It may be so far in the SDA world but not outside the SDA world. I do not thing that everyone who seems and sound inspired should be viewed or placed as less light. A balance is to me a way of approaching this and how long should it take us to accept others as less light. We need more of the Holy Spirit and prayer in these last days which is declining significantly in those who call to be the remnant church specially in those I higher positions.
John, I appreciate your reflection on faith and reason. Yes, faith has primacy over reason. To acknowledge is humbling and loving. In other words, we are saying to God, “I believe you know all things. You are the great I AM and I submit to you.”
I’d like to emphasize the importance of the statement that Farron made in his comment: “…if the search of Christ is only confined to scripture than the magnificence of Christ can be lost.” This is so true! The understanding of that principal both humbles everyone who claims to have the knowledge of Scripture and open a wide door to the many other revelations of Christ in the cosmos. It is a timely treatment to the Church of Laodicea.
I can truly empathize with you as it relates to teaching our members how to engage in proper Bible study. In fact I think it begins with our stance as a church regarding our presuppositions, which our members have adopted. It seems as if we have taught our members that we have the absolute truth. If that is what we teach them then they will not even be concerned with doing a proper Bible study. We almost train our members to read the Bible to reconfirm what they already accept as absolute truth. So I suggest that as we teach them proper methods of Bible study, we also begin the process collectively as a church of reeducating our members to the view that we must continue to seek truth and as we do,we should be open to the possibility that we may uncover new insights that broaden or change the truth we already have.
Cosmic Christ of Scripture, Chapter One-Introduction: The primary thing that stood out to me as a theme of the introduction, per say, was the theme of three. We read in Scripture that a cord of three stands cannot be easily broken. The God-head or trinity is three and here in this book we have a focus on the three books of God which do not 'eclipse' one another in anyway. Even using the bicycle wheel as an illustration we see three components; the cosmos as the wheel, Scripture as the spokes, and Christ as the hub. We traditionally use scripture to interpret itself.
Another theme I saw was the unveiling and light. Our unveiling happens as we focus on the light of Christ's face. Marriage, to me, is a prime illustration of this principle. As Christ is the head of the church so the husband is the head of his wife and when a husband is following the command of scripture to give himself up for her as Christ did for the church her countenance will reflect the love he is showing her. Reflection cannot happen if there is a veil.
The writings of E.G. White are deeply supportive of scripture and can be an illumination to it. I'm glad the author pointedly addressed his stand on this sometimes controversial issue especially considering that various readers may not be of a Seventh-day Adventist background.
I am writing in this blog on Chapter one of "Understanding Scripture" I had never realized that William Miller and the early Adventists made such a contribution to the scholarly hermeneutical processes of the Scripture. I understand the importance of a proper hermeneutical approach and a proper understanding do scripture and prophecy. I see the grave importance of ministers learning how to correctly and effectively draw out the meaning of scripture in order to preach and teach the truth. I see the importance of those called to be scholars studying and providing good resources for the rest. I get all this. But here is my question: Many of you may not like it and I may get severely chastised for say this but I must regardless.
Salvation comes through one source and one source only. Jesus Christ our Lord, Now, it is important that we truly know and understand what He did for each one of us. We must not misinterpret what the scriptures tell us about Him. Many of the prophesies tell of His goodness and help us to understand Gods' character and ultimate goal a little better. But knowing or not knowing the prophesies of Daniel and most of the prophesies of Revelation will not affect salvation. Who why is it that we as a church spend so many hours and so much money on books, studies, Bible conferences, etc. to argue how to study these prophesies when we could be using that time and money to grow our own relationship with the Savior and to teach others about Him?
Of what eternal significance is it to argue about different types of hermeneutics? Will I be assured of salvation if I turn my back on the historical-critical method? Will I see the pearly gates if I embrace grammatical-historical method? Or will I be saved if I let Jesus come into my life and I give my heart to Him? What about the people from the jungles of the world who only hear about Jesus, accept him but have not concept of hermeneutics? Will they be saved?
Richard Calhoun response Paradise Comments on Chapter 3 of Understanding Scripture: An Adventist Approach I agree with Paradise on the grounds that we as Christians sometimes take for granted that everyone does not hold the bible as an accurate authoritative book. For us to use gods revelation through creation to reach those who don’t see the validity of the bible. In psalms 19:1 its says 1The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. God use many avenues to reach mankind.
I am commenting on Marlene’s question as to why some Adventists are disregarding the Bible as the Word of God. The answer may have many parts but the central theme is that many of the activities we engage in today neutralize our love for the Word. So many of the sermons we hear at churches are merely versions of possibility thinking and concoctions of motivational speaking. Secondly in some instances the quarterly designed to encourage Bible Study becomes the actual tool to limit the same. Reason we underestimate the enemy of souls. Thirdly many have rejected both consciously and unconsciously the lesser light provided to serve as a catalyst for deeper study. In essence we have not continued to put Christ first in our lives. This will have a reverberating effect in our lives and overtime we will become spiritually blind. You see men like Luther had a passion for Christ. They had the ‘whatever it takes to serve him syndrome.’ Finally for a long time in this denomination the Holy Spirit had been relegated to a seat in the bleachers as we highlighted God the Father and God the Son. This had the catastrophic effect of lessening his role in the lives of believers.
In response to Ange "Can a veil of misunderstanding be a result of someone falsely presenting something to you of others (Ellen White)? Can the veil of misunderstanding that the world have of Christ be the cause of us? So called Christians who have given those in the middle questioning reasons to have this false veil of misunderstanding?" Scripture says that we would rather have a millstone tied to our neck and thrown to the deepest part of the sea that suffer what Christ has in store for us if we offend one of His little ones-Little ones in this application being those who are younger in Christ than ourselves. Simply, yes. Please clarify, is the issue of Ellen White an issue of misunderstanding? Do people who are part of other denominations who do subscribe to her teaching have the inability to understand scripture fully?
I like Jose Medina Jr’s comment on Biblical exegesis. Going over a passage helps us to understand the Scriptures better. Many times I have memorized a passage in order to go over it time and time again until one day God opened the passage to me. It is such a good feeling to receive a revelation from God.
I agree with Robert Best’s comment about the need for the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit makes the ground level. Some have a stronger intellect than others, but when it comes to understanding Scripture it doesn’t matter. The Holy Spirit can reveal God’s truth to anyone in a way he/she can understand.
After a careful analysis of Michelle Itschner, I cannot help but to endorse what she is saying in her article from the book “Cosmic Christ of Scripture. She refers to Dr. Hanna instruction as wisdom. It is true Ellen G White is popular among the Seventh Day Adventist community and not the wider society. However, her writings support Scripture. She also states that, Dr. Hanna encourages us to study the Scripture exclusively in order to have a deeper understanding. “Go to and fro through the Scripture and other writings…” Well done Michelle
After a careful analysis of Michelle Itschner article from the book “Cosmic Christ of Scripture. I cannot help but to endorse what she is saying. She refers to Dr. Hanna’s instruction as wisdom. It is true Ellen G White is popular among the Seventh Day Adventist community and not to the wider society. However, her writings support Scripture. She also states that, Dr. Hanna encourages us to study the Scripture inclusively in order to have a deeper understanding. “Go to and fro through the Scripture and other writings…” Well done Michelle
Quigley Morris respond to Marlene J. King article i share your pain and i am of that same opinion too. i do not get it with our people, that is not freedom and that is not what is stand for to do what you want. andrews should be the light house of advintizim but enen here we have double standards with believing the scriptures. our people today are very educated we read lots of book and so every one become his own judge. we read how wnd what we want and give any meaning to and justify our selves as our understand. so what you find every one believe what he wants in his own way. just look at the sabbath day and see how we are keeping it i wonder what is God saying. we buy we sell we do all that we want as if the scripture is not available and we are operating as if we forget what it says God have mercy.
Massiel, I thought that your insights on the comment of God speaking to us was meaninful and heartfelt. I am thankful that God has chosen to condescend to speak to man and I am thankful that He has a variety of ways to do that. I cant imagine where I would be had He not taken the initiative to sit down at my table or visit me at my bedside. Praise Jehovah for taking the initiative to open the lines of communication. I am left wondering why I (and perhaps others) communicate with Him so rarely
I am in agreement with Jessie Lopez when he says “ God’s divine word (scripture) never changes. Just because we are living in a different time period then the writers of the bible, doesn’t mean we can change the biblical doctrines according to our modern culture”. Its should also be known that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Therefore his principles remain. There is harmony in the Scriptures and it will never contradict itself as it is God breathed
I agree on this statement by Fredy Reinosa “We need to understand that God can not contradict himself , and that there is unity in the scripture”. Indeed we should at all time know that there is harmony in the Scripture and if we don’t depend on the guidance and direction of the Holy Spirit when it comes to reading of the Scriptures our study will be in vain. .
I like Richard's comment on chapter 3 in Cosmic Christ. That was a big subject when i was on the field and discussing the Old Testament with people of the Church of Christ. I like what that chapter says and the addition Richard adds. Christ is the theme of the entire Bible, praise the Lord! The sermon and the appeal. The prayer and the amen! The Alpha and the Omega!
Commenting on Quigley Morris' statement regarding the word of God. I was blessed by your testimony about your uncle. Praise the Lord that God was able to reach him by the Word. I'm trying to understand your point. Are you disagreeing with the idea that the particular words were not inspired? By saying that the Bible writers were inspired in thought does not leave out the fact that in some instances their words were inspired as well. Overall, whether words, thoughts or both, the entire Bible is inspired. We know this because of texts such as 2 Timothy 3:16 and Hebrews 4:12. Saying that there are portions of the Bible where the actual words were not inspired does not take away from the inspiration of it. Actually, the nature of the inspiration of the Bible is congruent with God's plan of salvation in which divinity has been merged with humanity, however, divinity trumps humanity overall, which is why God's word is "living and active."
Commenting on Yong shin Chee's comment regarding chapter 6 of "The Cosmic Christ of Scripture."
I totally agree with this chapter and comment. It is very easy to spend one's entire life studying the Scriptures and yet never encounter Christ; the Pharisees are a perfect example. The purpose of the Scriptures is to lead us into a deeper relationship with our Savior. If we are not studying with the purpose of encountering Christ then we are wasting our time.
I'd like to comment on that Yong shin Chee said in October Comment #1.
I agree with the statement "It would do well for us to not ‘humanize God". I think this is very true. We make the mistake when we look at Divinity as though from an "outsider's" prospective, rather than from the prospective of a redeemed sinner. I prefer to know my God (my Father, my Jesus, my Holy Spirit) personally than to have a lot of information about the doctrine of Trinity and at the end hear the words of Jesus "I don't know you".
John Is it Safe to Disregard the Prophet Ellen White?
I appreciated your comment and biblical approach to prove that it’s not safe to disregard the Prophet Ellen White. I think, the problem they (those who want to disregard the writings of Ellen White) have is a problem of authority, they think (surely from the way EGW’s writings are being used in the Church) that they are placed as equal authority with the Bible. EGW herself has never said it. The Church has never claimed it. The use the Church is making of EGW’s writings must not lead people to think what we are not saying. I think the problem is not whether EGW is a prophet or not, the problem should be whether what she is saying is Scriptural or not as you rightly say it: “we are told to do the testing by the law and the testimony, the Bible”. Let those who disregard or want to disregard her as a Prophet prove it from her writings. Even if they don’t want to recognize her as a Prophet at least they are to accept her writings as so many others daily published and used in the Church.
I think that the problem with Ellen White is not her problem but it is a misunderstanding and abuse of her ministry by our church . Specially the majority of the so called "conservatives ". There are some groups in the church who worship Ellen white . Sometimes it seems that we have our own"pope". I think adventists need to have a clear idea of Inspiration .I think it is very dangerous when we take her writings out of context and when we treat her as the infallible interpreter of scripture . She never endorsed that.I think Seventh day adventist need to go back to the bible and not be afraid of that . I believe that she was a prophet , but I believe also that she was human . I know she never claim perfection and she always pointed people to Jesus but for 150 years we have been pointing people to Ellen White .
Quigley i understand Kenton's point of view on the point of understanding God. i have always said to my people and every one i have had a chance to talk do not try to understand God but just trust him. and if you believe in him trust him. we cannot guest him. we cannot estimate him, we cannot hurry him into action. God is beyond our thoughts so all we as creaturs of his creation can do is to be patient and trust him. the people before us who you said was more willing to follow him i do not think so they were as bad as we are to day. for that matter God destroyed two cities and flooded the whole world. the point is people we men, we are the most unplesent group of God creation and he love us so much he died to save us man some times i just sit and think and i am over come with so much love for hime because sometimes it seems to me i can catch a glims of who he is to me.
Guibert has raised a question that we must address. Have we complicated the Gospel? Have we, in an attempt to have all the answers, watered down the message. Is it absolutely necessary to be able to interpret the original language? I believe that we as pastors have the responsibility to have a deeper understanding in order to present the message more clearly. We must make the message simple so that many will hear and come to a knowledge of Jesus and find salvation.
I am intrigued by Wouabe's comments about our freedom to create our principles of interpretation. He is correct in his assessment that we have created our own division by creating our own methods of interpreting scripture. Perhaps we should go back to square 1 and begin again with the proper tools to eliminate our differences.
Guibert Etienne did a good job by revealing to us how the Godhead works in our lives. It is true that we cannot understand God exhaustively. What is important is that God loves us and He is always ready to have a relationship with us. God did reveal Himself to us in so many ways. He even sent Jesus to die for our sins and to reveal to us His will. God’s motif is to dwell with us. Even in our sinful nature, through the Holy Spirit God continue to speak to us. By sending Jesus to die for our sins, He gives us an assurance of salvation.
Freedy I agree with you that there seems to be an abuse of EGW's ministry by our Church. First, considering that fact, How would you define a proper use of EGW's ministry? Second, I humbly think that we should distinguish between the Church as Organization (Doctrines, Principles ...) and the Church as members (GC President, Pastors, ...) Some members can misuse the ministry of EGW. Are we going to condemn the Church for it? I don't think so. As far as I know, the Church has never disciplined a Pastor or a member for not speaking about EGW, not using her writings in his/her preaching an so on. Once more, I think the problem is with us church members, not with the Church.
My Comment: I would like to comment on Ainsworth Chambers' posting on October 1, 2009. I want to commend you on how well you have capture the of the author of The Cosmic CHRIST of Scripture. Dr. Hanna does “states that he is convinced that the Scripture is the only Christian rule of faith, practice and knowledge” while leading the reader to realize that as such the Bible recognizes the other sources by which we may receive revelations from GOD. In his “wholistic model” that would include CHRIST HIMSELF and the cosmos. I was wondering what are your thoughts on Dr. Hanna's “wholistic model” for receiving GOD's revelation? Do you agree with it, yes, no, and why?
Comments on: Richard Calhoun Jr. Chapter 5 Reading the Revelation of Divinity in humanity: will the real Christ stand up? “The Cosmic Christ of Scripture”
Richard brings up a great point in his commentary on chapter 5 regarding humanity’s ability to understand the divine. I resonated well with the belief that we need to avoid putting God in a box because not only would we make God small, but we would also hinder a deeper understanding of who God is. Also, being surrounded with so much skepticism can provoke us to have a dialogue that assumes we know everything there is to know about Jesus. As we continue pursuing understanding of God, we need to humbly recognize that the journey of knowing Christ fully will never be over, nor complete.
Commentary on Sampson Appiah-Kubi take on Cosmic Christ.
Sampson’s comments on the reading in Cosmic Christ were very intriguing and sound. What I found most significant was the way he demonstrated the close relationship Scripture and Christ have together. The reader of Scripture needs to recognize that Christ is real. For others it may seem that Jesus was simply a good man who did extraordinary things, but failure to recognize Jesus as the prime revelation of God would be contrary to the teachings of Scripture. Furthermore, we can affirm that position with the constant references to Jesus in prophecy and epistles. Not only do writers from different times point to the actual revelation of God through Jesus, but Jesus himself pointed others back to Scripture. This relationship that placed importance between each other needs to be embraced together.
In response to Jose L. Medina Jr.'s comment of The Cosmic CHRIST of Scripture Chapter 3, I appreciate your thorough understanding of Dr. Hanna's Material. But what struck me, was how at the end, you said that you thought that Dr. Hanna's thoughts were Bible based, but worthy of prayerful consideration and upon conviction of the Holy Spirit, life application. That is great, I've never heard (read) anyone acknowledge that even when someone says something that seems right..the person still conscientiously says to pray and ask for conviction if it is true. Well done Jose!
A response to Enoc Lopez's comment: I totally agree with the concept that doubt and reason are essential if faith and understanding are to take place. The true Christian will be challenged to move beyond doubt and reason and accept by pure faith the words of God.
In Understanding Scripture “the Holy Spirit in Hermeneutics” Talking about the Holy Spirit, I was very surprised of the fact that evil spirit was mentioned in the process of hermeneutics. I think that this understanding raises lots of question for me. A question that I have is the spirit behind the modern spiritual books we have today and also the spiritual life of those involved in modern Bible translation. I have no problem with the need to make the Bible easy and plain for people to read but how many versions do we need? I know that the KJV has some verses which needs help and other versions do a better job but when is it enough. Looking at church history and seeing the way Satan has attempt to corrupt the truth by being with in the church, is not this happening today? We have today those who call themselves 7TH Day Adventist with the belief that the creation account was not true literal days. So, this door, which is now open to the enemy to plant more bad seed, and we allow this teacher to teach truth to the student in a Christian school. What a firm message of what we believe.
It is very interesting that we talked of presupposition as something to be cautious but we forget that it is important to have some presuppositions. I will reject both extreme that to have presupposition is a must and to not have any presupposition is a must. Do you know anyone in the scripture who did not have any presuppositions? I believe that it is important to some presupposition if you attend to have an easy and good hermeneutic. Some that I think are important are: the Bible is the inspired word of GOD, all books agree among each other to the main theme of salvation and that it has unity of scripture. And because every author of the Bible had a presupposition so the bible itself has its own presupposition to the reader. We have focus and mention more of the hindrance of presupposition and forget that there is a blessing in having a good presupposition. Our life journey helps us see the scripture in a more personal way because of our experience. We have a background which is only unique to us and we can see in the scripture what others will not be able to see. The word of GOD we must remember is infinite and all the living being coming together cannot exhaust all possibility of the meaning of a text. I love to listen to others share their meaning of a passage in the scripture. I have always experience from others sharing their understanding of the scripture, to have something new and amazing that I did not see. The Bible is a living Word and it is relevant to us no matter what our experience in life was.
I agree that we need to do a better job on our study of Ellen G. White. I think that we are lacking the fact that it may be a Word for the world the Bible that is Complete. And a Word from GOD to certain people but to later be for all people. Thinking outside the box and several thoughts at once is something we need to master.
I would like to comment on ange's comment. life is all about learning. the veil can be removed but it is through christ that the veil comes of. the holyspirit leads us into all truth. it is through our following the lead of the holy spirit that the veil of misunderstanding is removed.
I agree with Jose Medina, biblical exegesis is hard and honestly before I came to seminary I never knew what it was. I have realized and presently know that it is necessary. Many times truth is treated like a commodity that is only fit for the privelleged which is why I did not know what exegesis was and I dare say many people in the church most likely still don't know. Our mission as spiritual leaders will be to promulgate the truth thereby lighting up the darkness which means not to give a man a fish for a day where he will only stay a live for one night but to teach him to fish so that he will have food for life.
I agree with Kabah Stephen for the most part but the part where I disagree is that scripture will readily unviel itself to the diligent student. It is the diligent student that realizes that scripture is not easy to understand which is why the diligent one is the individual that is in constant study. We get to understand through walking with Christ that the more that we see him is the more that we realize how little we really knew him. With scripture the more we study the better we will become at grasping concepts and understanding but as we continuosly study be assured that there will be some verses and or chapters that will boggle the mind and deafen the senses.
Ange, your point was well taken. There is a place for presuppositions when it comes to understanding the word of God. However, the emphasis must be placed on being aware of our presuppositions that hinder or advance our understanding of scripture.
Farron, your point was well taken. God will take his time to reveal his mysteries to us. In the fullness of time Jesus, the word made flesh came to us. God is a timely God. Our response to his timing should be patience and attentiveness.
One lesson I've taken away from your comment is that we must study the word of God for ourselves. We must sit and learn under the hospice of the Holy Spirit. This in no way negates the place of learning and understanding scripture within a community of believers, but the Holy Spirit is our primary teacher.
Kenita, I can agree with the quote you placed at the end of your comments, regarding the need for the the Seventh-day Adventist church to continue to search for a deeper understanding of the Biblical model of revelation and inspiration. As a matter of fact as a church we need to unite on a model for revelation inspiration. It is important as a foundation for our beliefs and our claims of Biblical authority.
Massiel, I agree with your comment. Often times we Seventh-day Adventist things in reference to others. We are the fold that they will return to. We can become a little smug in our beliefs of being the 'remnant". We run the risk of not turning the texts around and asking ourselves some hard questions: "how it relates to us as a church?" "What does it mean to me?" I pray that we'll realize the Scriptures are in fact a two edged sword which cuts both side and that we don't have all the truth.
In response to John R. Treat on historical research: I agree that “the hermeneutics of doing theology needs to be directed by the word of God.” I also agree with what Ellen White wrote that study of historical documents can be helpful when studying the Scriptures, but not essential. It is true that the essence of God’s teachings are plain to understand. Yet what would be the purpose of historical study? If it is to seek capital-T Truth in the writings of the great teachers of ages past, then of course, we have gone beyond what is healthy. But if it is to understand the context in which the events of the Bible took place, then it is extremely important. For example, many of Jesus’ parables were based on common teachings of the day, yet with a twist that made his hearers think. If we didn’t understand that from what we find in history, we may miss the point Jesus was making in some cases. You’re right to say that history does not point the way to heaven. But Scripture was not written in a vacuum, and the more we understand the people, places, events, teachings and culture of the time of the Bible, the better we will be able, with the Holy Spirit guiding, to understand the Bible itself.
in response to Ange on Oct. 30. I see what you are saying about presuppositions and that we all have them is very true. No one can do anything without the influence of their presupposition. However, I have many times encountered people who use their presuppositions as a crutch and excuse themselves. It is my firm belief that unless directly inspired by the Holy Spirit as to the meaning and ramifications of a text, no one will ever be able to truly understand or grasp or preach that text. Unless we are able to identify, understand and set aside every single presupposition that we carry, we must rely on seeing through a glass dimly. But soon we will see clearly and know wholly even as we are known.
Kenita your comment touched my heart deeply because I culd feel your struggle as you wrote about Ellen G. White. I love your honesty and how you let the material in class speak to your issues. I too struggled with Ellen White and God led me to a class in the summer on the Life and Ministry of Ellen G. White. It was a most enlightening experience. I could ask any question and left feeling valued as a person seeking truth. My struggle was with the word prophet. In leaving Catholicism I had left all my saints and Mary behind. It was difficult to embrace what I perceived to be an Adventist saint at the time. God delivered me from the turmoil and I have found peace. It is a very important step in the journey and I know that God will be with you because you are honest before Him. God bless and keep you. I recommend the book The Messenger.
I agree with Andrew Pileggi comments on matthew 24 and luke 21. I believe sometimes we focus too much on scare tactics to and what the enemy is doing. We should be aware of these different events but that shouldn't be our focus as so much as spreading the Gospel and correctly explaining it. I pray that we as a church know and study God's plans and prepare our hearts from Him as much as we as a church focus on "end time readiness"
Debbie W certainly asks some very important questions with regards to the difference of opinions in the SDA context. Why indeed do we argue the way we do? Too often it seems to get out of hand because as SDAs we're more concerned with 'winning the argument' rather than loving one another as God has commanded. When we do that, we have already unwittingly chosen the side of the devil in the Great Controversy.
i find Robert Best comments very interesting and to an extent i support his feelings. i think our pass have given us enought evidence to trust Gods words without thinking twice. but i do not believe in a blind faith; faith is never blind; what you believe in may be blind to me but to you your trust in God is all you know and see so you are not blind because your hope is on the one you know. the other side is base on your relationship with God, your pass lessons with him have given you the insight that he is going to do some thing for you. you can follow him blindly because you trust him and you know he will do what is best for you. but i do not think that is blind faith, in my opinion faith is never blind because in faith we can see all there to know about the love and grace of our God. we can take the Word of God for granted because we know of its power to move people but not granted to close our eyes to its profound truth.
robert i understand your feeling on the story about Jesus and the blind man. but let us fact the facts of this story Jesus is the maker of humanity; we cannot tell him how to fix a problem. he knows of every wire, every boult, and he know every function of every strand of hair on the body. so you will discover there are a thousand ways to fix one or our problems. but he is not about just fixting us but he is in the business of fixing and saving humanity. so it does not matter to me, water, spit, mud, fire, plants what ever he choose to used it is the maker in action just sit back and watch his creative hands put us together.
Joshua I really liked the way you described JESUS' authority. “His authority is based on love not lording over someone.” It is so amazing how even though HE has so much power HIS love is even greater. If we would only open our hearts to receive HIS love and be willing to share it, as HE is willing to share it, our world would be such a better place. I guess one could say that HIS loving ways verify HIS authority, because it was a loving GOD that created in the first place. Only the Creator can have all authority over HIS creation.
I want to express my agreement with Ainsworth Chambers’s comment. Even though it is clear that we cannot “strip” ourselves from our culture and thus its presuppositions, the only way to meet God in Scripture is in humble readiness to accept a fact of possible self-corruption and limitation. No matter how sensitive we are to our own ethnicity or culture if they are the main focus of our attention we will miss God of Scripture. Yet, we cannot expect the same approach from those we share the Gospel with. In our effort to reach other cultures we must learn the “roots of worldview” of those we come in contact with in order to present God in the most acceptable way possible.
GSEM 510-2 Revelation, Inspiration and Hermeneutics 2009 Professor: Dr. Martian Hanna Name: Ainsworth Chambers Comment on Massiel In commenting on Massiel blog, there is a quote in his blog from Dr Martin Hanna book, “The Cosmic Christ of Scripture,” “We cannot talk about God unless we talk to God. We cannot talk to God unless He had first started the conversation. One has to realize that God has revealed His character to us so that we can know Him better. Massiel states that the door between God and us is always open. The only close door between us and God is the one we place there when we turn and refused to respond to His invitation. He concluded by saying that an ongoing conversation and exchange with and about God, He made the first move so we wouldn’t doubt His intentions. He’s in this with us for eternity.
GSEM 510-2 Revelation, Inspiration and Hermeneutics 2009 Professor: Dr. Martian Hanna Name: Ainsworth Chambers Comment on Kabah Stephen Kabah Stephen made mention in the second chapter of the book “Understanding Scripture An Adventist Approach” under the topic: Faith, Reason and Holy Spirit in Interpretation of Scripture” that it is a clear indication that one cannot fully understand the truth of the Scripture without the aid of the Holy Spirit. He goes on further by saying that “interpreting the Scripture is a religious experience, not simple an intellectual one.” This is perfectly true. It is important for us to realize that when an individual is interpreting the Scripture without the aid of the Holy Spirit, doing it for the glorification of their intellectual skills is always in danger of false interpretation. However, he says that “interpreting of the Scripture is also an intellectually enriching experience;” which I do believe it true. In concluding he states that “Faith transcends reason, because it is not limited to human theories, logic, reason, knowledge, and understanding.” Overall I do believe that he has done a good job.
Andrew’s thoughts on chapter 7 are well stated. One point that resonates with me is that although the guidelines for interpreting scripture is well stated, the application of them is a timely process. Furthermore, we need not get caught up in a “microwave” method of interpreting the Word of God. This is a work of a lifetime, which requires diligence and integrity. Our transformation depends on it.
Debbie, I appreciate your comment on bibliolatry. The devil is subtle in his ways. By his leading, “ardent students of the Word of God [can] regard the Bible as being ontologically superior to God himself.” As we study the Word of God we must never get complacent in that we forget to invite the Holy Spirit to be our Master Teacher who will lead us into ALL truth.
Responding to Robert Best's comment on Old Testament prophecy. I would agree that we SDAs have a different understanding of prophecy than everyone else. I would also say that our understanding is correct. However, I would disagree that the lack of understanding on the part of our other brethren (1st day) is due to a lack of study on their part. We must remember that our church was born out of the Millerite Movement, a movement filled with men and women who had responded to the call of God. Our understanding of prophecy is the result of God imparting that knowledge to us, a knowledge that He expects us to humbly share with the world.
Responding to Kenita's comment on interpreting Ellen White's writings. It is so true that we have to interpret Ellen White's writings using the same principles with which we interpret the Scriptures. Many times we find members who have misinterpreted an Ellen White quote because they failed to acknowledge the context of her statement. I believe that many times believers use her writings to support their own ideas by going to her writings with a presupposition. Often, her writings are used to support our prejudices or cultural preferences, but of course she is misinterpreted in the process.
Farron Gibson did her best by trying to explain to us the prophecies of the OT. the important point she made was the idea of faith in understanding divine will and purpose. to her predictive prophecy was given to man by God not to satisfy man's curiosity about the future events but for moral purpose. in all the prophecies of the OT God was concern about the moral situation of His people and His willness to accept them back when they turn from their wicked ways.
I agree with you Yong shin Chee, Seventh-day Adventist do seem to be more concerned about winning an argument than loving people. It's almost as if we believe that knowledge will save us...What do you think can help us overcome this tendency?
Very interesting Question, that one you just raised . According to George Knight we learn win converts by debating . When A Seventh day Adventist ,would go to a new place he looked for a leader of another church and would start a debate ,if he won ( in most cases they did ) he would win of the hearers many converts , according to Dr. Knight during the 1880's we have learn to debate between ourselves , the result the conflict of Minneapolis .Farron , it is so hard to overcome this tendency , I believe the only way to overcome this is to look at Christ ,instead of looking at the issues .I think the problem is that we think that we need to defend " the truth" . Truth defends itself . So I ask myself "I want to say something so I can look good " Or to make Jesus look good . Very sad many people talking about perfection ,victory over sin and many other things but speaking against our church with a " holier than thou"attitude .And they forget about "Unity " Jesus last public prayer (John 17) I hope we learn and finally respond to Jesus .
Comments on Joel Bohannon’s Response to Chapter 8 of Understanding Scripture I share Joel’s appreciation for the chapter’s constant reference to Jesus. There is much significance to approaching Scripture with such presupposition and also in understanding the objective in the study of Scripture. The important role of Christ in Scripture is that He is central to Scripture. We must be able to see who all the teaching of Scripture can culminate in the life of Christ. We must not forget that Christ was the best revelation of God that man has ever known, so the centrality of Christ in Scripture helps us know God in a closer and fuller manner. There are many faithful Christians who do not feel the Old Testament holds significant relevance since the Resurrection of Jesus, but the OT holds significant relevance in New Testament and in the present. Because of the OT Christians are able to establish the Messianic authority Jesus had. Also, Christ constant reference to OT demonstrates the continuity of Scripture. We cannot ignore the tremendous role the Old Testament had in the life of Christ and in the study of Scripture.
Kenton makes a good point when he mentions how we try to humanize God. WE forget that He is perfect, and in his divine grace and wisdom does not have the same thought-process that we do, and that is such a good thing. So often we justify our sins, so much that they become non-sinful to us. God does not justify anything. He lays the truth before us, and it's our job to either accept it or deny it. Christ doesn't play favorites or isn't swayed by human emotions or feelings or selfish motives.
In the book Understanding Scripture. An Adventist Approach the chapter title “the text and the canon of scripture” lead me to think of this question. What is the difference between the OT and the NT testament authority? When we look at the Hebrew scriptures (OT) which were translated to Greek, we see that there were some presuppositions in their translation. We see that some passages when critics evaluate then in the Hebrew language seem to differ when compared to the passages in the Greek. Is it any value in the OT Greek translated? Is it simply difficult to truly have the entire message from the original language? The section History of the NT Canon. We know that the history of the NT canon is not as complex as its OT counterpart. I think that understanding the process to the OT canonization is important for our understanding of the Bible. How do we address this statement in (Matt 5:33-34; 38-39; 43-44) “you have heard that it was said…. but I say”? Is it a difference in authority with the NT when compared to the OT from this statement? Was he only referring to the OT or other additional teachings in this statement? The OT was the scripture used when we look at the NT. Is the OT the final decision making when looking at questionable points in the NT? 2Tim 3:16 and Heb 1:1-2 talks about the writers had their main authority from the Holy Spirit and the OT. I think that we lack the Holy Spirit greatly in out understanding of the Bible.
In the book Understanding Scripture. An Adventist Approach. I had really think about the chapter title “Guidelines for the Interpretation of Scripture” The Historical-Biblical Method or also called the biblical-grammatical approach to scripture is one of the many methods that I strongly believe have a great significant in the understanding of the scripture. When one asks, why was this statement made? Or What do they do this? It rests heavenly on the understanding of the historical content of the people living then with its culture and tradition. We see that in Gen 1:26 the need to let the Israelites know that not only the kings and royalties are made in the image of god in Egypt but the Israelites being under slave, needed to be reminded that there is a GOD who has made them in His Image and likeness and He has delivered them from slavery. Also, we see in the story of faith by works and works by faith with Paul and James. That historical background helps clear the confusion people have. (pg 113) Interpreting a Biblical Text. When I look at the 10 steps mentioned, I wonder if these steps will help one to get to a good and safe interpretation. Step 1: Turning to God in prayer is no question important. But we have experience one praying before presenting and used the other steps with still an interpretation which needed lots of work. So, these steps may be helpful but the truth of the matter is why are you studying the test. Do we go to the bible for help or are we the one helping the scripture in its meaning. Humility is to me the core of one arriving to a better interpretation and understanding of the word. We must remember that Peter prayed and did many miracles and still was not save or converted. We must remember that our works no matter how good it may be still need corrections. I still stand with the point that all the bitter disagreements is of the lack of growth and maturity and mostly the need to have a more intimate relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. The absence of submission in individual.
I agree with Pablo Ariza Comments on Joel Bohannon’s Response to Chapter 8 of Understanding Scripture. Has much as I have been a Christian the NT testament seems to be lifted up above the OT. And we know very well the NT stories and teaching but barely that of the OT. I think that one does not go pass the layer of the teaching in the NT if lacks the authority and teaching of the OT. I am an OT fan see CHRIST very present and very beautiful in the OT.
Comment on Andrew Pileggi’s comment on Ganoune Diop’s chapter on innertextual interpretation.
Andrew, I too appreciated Dr. Diop’s chapter on the inter-connectedness of the Scriptures. You note that “almost everything/everyone in the Old Testament point forward to Christ in some way.” What I wondered while reading the same chapter was how we know what points forward to Christ and in what way. Are only NT authors able to interpret the connections? Or is this the responsibility of all Bible students? Or is this even the right question to ask? In any case, I have found that a deeper understanding of the OT sheds light on the true meaning of the NT in a general sense. The deeper I study the NT, the more I want to study the OT as well! Perhaps this is good enough for now!
Andrew Pileggi I loved your comment on the relevance of the book the Cosmos as intimated by Dr. Hanna. I too was oblivious to the importance of this revelation.I was aware that God created nature but that was it. Tied in closely with this insight is the the statement that while all nature expresses the law of God the human system is written with his finger. When we exclude every revelation but that of the Bible we often downplay nature, health laws and experience.You were right God used many analogies from nature and He kept it simple. In our theological exuberance we can substitute with what the author calls high sounding nonsense and miss Christ all together. Biology has taken on a new meaning for me since the reading of this little book The Cosmic Christ of Scripture.
Comments on Assignments for Revelation, Inspiration and Hermeneutics I agree with Mark Daniels when he says that Satan and his fallen angels are bent on our misinterpretation of the Word that will cause others to be led astray and fall away from the Lord. Therefore when we approach the scriptures, we should do so with a teachable spirit and ask the Lord to fill us with the Holy Spirit who will be our guide as we venture into the study of the Holy Scriptures.
Comments on Assignments for Revelation, Inspiration and Hermeneutics I agree with Kenita Spencer when she says “Jesus was clothed in humanity and divinity. He was completely human and perfectly divine. We are completely human. What God makes is perfect and so at one point our human nature was perfect. Adam and Eve forfeited relying on God’s divine nature and human nature became fallen. Thus, we sin. However, “partaking of the divine nature is the secret to our victory [over sin] Jesus was born in the same flesh and nature we have So that He could be understanding of our weaknesses and inclinations toward sin, and be a merciful High Priest for us.
the thesis of the cosmic Christ of scripture is "scripture provides principles that should guide the reading of Christ, scripture and cosmos in relation to each other. this will result in the removing of the veil that causes misunderstanding of gods revelation. Hanna concludes with these key facts: one. the bible alone has its unique authority over christian faith, practice and knowledge. two. all of scripture must be taken into consideration when seeking the right interpretation of scripture, Christ and the cosmos. three. scripture has an epistemological primacy. scripture is a primary, final, and ultimate authority for christian.
i would like to comment on john's comment. it is true that modern day theology is never concrete. never coming to a definite conclusion. i wonder sometimes if we are not beating around a well worn track beside a well known bush that's no longer on fire because our god is definite and definitely not amused at all the misconceptions and misunderstandings in regard to his own revelation that he himself clarifies through his own life death and resurrection.
This in response to Kenita’s initial response about her struggles with Ellen White. I grew up in a Caribbean household in a North American culture. I didn’t want to do what I was told without understanding it for myself. I saw many from the ‘old school’ who used their little burgundy books (EG White’s writings) in place of the Scriptures. Many quoted her liberally as if she was Christ Himself. I made me uncomfortable. I didn’t want to be identified with a religious group who revered a woman over the Scriptures. It was as I matured spiritually, that I found myself reluctantly returning to my roots so to speak. Now, I find great comfort in her words. I have since resolved my negative feelings when I saw that she pointed you back to Scriptures!! I do see her as a messenger of God.
This in response to Michelle's blog on presuppositions, and cultural influences on our understanding of scripture. I can appreciate how she point out that when we approach scripture, we must be willing to acknowledge our presuppositions. Ellen White suggests that when we come to the Bible, we should approach it it with a humble, teachable spirit, seeking the Holy Spirit's help in understanding what we encounter. If we are so proud that we are unable to truly open our minds to the idea that we have an opportunity to learn from the Holy Spirit, then our growth and understanding of the Bible will always be hindered.
I would like to say that I am of the same mindset as Joel, I often wonder myself if modern theology has become to methodical and to intellectual that we have missed the enire point of Christ. IN theology today sometimes it seems like we are trying analyze God under a microscope and completely understand God when I do not believe that this is all possible short of glory. That does not mean we stop researching and stop studying, but that we simply realize our limits and bring all of our studying and all of our intellectual ideas and "thoughts captive to the obedience of Christ".
I want to cosign with what Donald has said. Our Presuppositions must be acknowledged in interpretation. He is right when He says that we must invite the Holy Spirit to guide us, I beleive this is the first step in Exegesis. Ellen White even goes so far as to say that If we do not do this; that in the very study of scripture skepticism will strengthen.
I am in total agreement with Marlene when she says that it is mind boggling to even understand that God prepared a plan of salvation for us before we sinned. In thinking about this we realize how important it is to forgive and as Christ planned to forgive before we wronged him we should likewise prepare to forgive others before they wrong us.
In response to Debbie who commented on chapter 6 of understanding scripture we must realize that we like to believe what agrees with us. Truth is never popular and as such we can never expect it to be widely accepted in this world of sin. We are the remnant church anf we must have confidence in that fact. I have spent pratically all my life as a Seventh Day Adventist and if I were to follow the people in the religion I would have left this denomination long ago. We must remember to not focus on men and women who interpret scripture but to the God who made them. We all think that we know something but we have assurety that God knows everything.
Jaehyun Kwon said… The book of The Cosmic Christ of Scripture I think chapter 3 is more interesting that chapter 1,2. Of course, I could understand the Scripture principle. I also read that scripture provides the principles that should guide the Christ-centered reading of God’s three books in relation t each other. The meaning of the three scripture like this; Tota scripture is all of scripture, Sola scripture is scripture alone, Pirma scripture is scripture first. And Dr. Hanna explained more about above theme. Scripture alone has its unique primacy as the written word which points to the living word-Jesus-as Source of life (Jn 5:39-40) within the cosmic context. We can confirm in John 1:3-4; “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.” He is “the life” (Jn 1:4), and” Light of the world” (Jn 8:12). Scripture also supports the sols and prima christus principles. Christ alone has His unique primacy because he created all things and in Him all things consist (Col 1:16-17). Christ is supreme as the unique and primary Son of God who brings many sons to glory. So, I thank Jesus Christ for given us to be done another son of God.
Jaehyun Kwon said… The book of The Cosmic Christ of Scripture, chapter 4-6
I believe Jesus Christ is the center of the bible. He is the core of salvation in the earth. So the Cross of the Calvary is the most appearance of Jesus Christ’s love toward human. Because of Jesus said “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life” (Jn 5:38-40). He is the God, and the man. As the bible said “the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us” (Jn 1:14), He became the man, but He also is God. I think it is not only the mystery, but also the work of God. It is the shown revelation of God. The nature of divinity as Father (Ps 89:26) and as Spirit (Jn 4:24) is unveiled in the divinity of Jesus who is the uniquely begotten Son of God (Jn 3:16). The Father and the Son are clearly presented as two persons. Jesus described the Spirit as a person by describing Him with the personal pronoun (Jn 14:25-26; 16:12-15). In addition the divine unity of the Father, Son, and Spirit is evident in the same divine titles are applied to each person. Actually, no matter how I think it, it is the mystery and the grace of God. Even though I can’t understand it, I am impressed by the truth whenever I meditate it.
Jaehyun Kwon said… “Are Ellen White’s Writing Revelation to the Cosmos?” By The Cosmic Christ of Scripture, Chapter 10. Elle G. White said “The whole natural world is designed to be an interpreter of the things of God”. This revelation includes human nature. And she said “all nature expresses the law of God, but in our physical structure Jehovah has written His law with His own finger upon every nerve, every muscle, every fiber of our being, upon every faculty which has been entrusted to man.” According to EGW, there are divine and human dimensions to God’s revelations in the cosmos, scripture, and Christ. It is impossible to gain a perfect knowledge of God from the cosmos because sin has obscured God’s revelation. But in the spite of the distortion caused by sin, the cosmos is an open book which reveals god who works in the cosmos. Sometimes I am impressed when I see the nature of creature of my God. So I thank God for given us beautiful nature. And she also writes that the divine human communion, which is provided in the cosmos and Scripture, points to the divine-human union “in the nature of Christ, who was the Son of God and the Son of man.” The explanation of Dr. Hanna is pertinent about between the bible and nature; the bible is greater lighter and the nature is lesser light for us.
John's comment is so interesting for me. Ellen G.White's writings is lesser light to illuminate the bible. but it is the message of God too. of course, the difference of authority is surely existed, but I believe her writing lead people into the bible and innuminiate many believers into the greater light, the bible.
I firmly agree hiw comment; "God’s divine word (scripture) never changes." nowadays many churches have been experiencing strugling problems called the conlclict of postmodernism and modernism. some of believers try to estimate the bible according to their aspect. but I think they must recognize the nature of God which never be changed jast as His love toward human.
On the middle of Chapeter 5; Revelation and Inspiration of "understanding Scripture an Adventist Approach"
I read interesting passage of the book. The author wrote like this; “God revealed Himself in many ways by condescending to human patterns of thought and writing. The entire Bible is revealed. The words of the prophets have become the words of God.” Of course, I know and understand well this passage. But the problem is to do application. Through biblical history, some of people in the bible would have heard the words of prophets. God directly used to show Himself or His will to some men, but He mostly showed Himself or His will through the message of the messenger. So it was very important to discern who real prophet was. I think the revelation is important, but the ability of discern is also important. So we need the daily inspiration for our spiritual life. I have been learning RIH in my class, but actually the latter would be more important in daily life. Because bible said “In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace” (Ep 1:17). And I think the revelation is also to see God through the window of heart.
Innerbiblical Interpretation: Reading the Scripture Intetextually, chapter 7 of Understanding Scripture
I agree the insistence of the author that is Jesus the center of innerbiblical interpretation. Actually I find that Jesus quoted so many verses form Old Testament. How did He interpret the OT? In the setting of Matthew 5:17-18, Jesus declares “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled”. According to these verses, He came down to fulfill the Bible. But I could find the several meaning by Greek word of this letter. This word get the meaning of “to to expand,” “to complete,” “to accomplish” what is he to accomplish? We know it. His right is different from Pharisees. He saw the true nature of the OT. When Pharisees speak to the phenomenon of the OT, Jesus Christ told them to the true nature of the bible. He is the core of revelation, inspiration and hermeneutics. Sometimes he used expressions with an unprecedented dignity. Such as “You have heard that the ancients were told, … but I say to you” (Matt 5:21-22). In fact He is not a repeater of the OT, but interpretator.
The Sixth comment “Chapter 17, Ellen G. White and hermeneutics” of Understanding Scripture.
This chapter was very interesting for me. Ellen G. White understood her role to be that special messenger of God to the Seventh Day Adventist Church. But actually her writing have been criticized in pare of hermeneutics. In my case I also experienced some problem about the Hermeneutic application in my church between church members. The author of this chapter indicated the hermeneutics and application. And he explained the application of EGW’s health message. Here is interesting issue. SDA members nearly are concerned about this issue; “Vegetarianism, is it a Principle or Policy to Ellen G. White?” D. M Canright criticized that White couple ate hog meat a in their home in 1859. The time when James White met Canright at the first time, was in 1859. After then, he visited James’s house very often as a visitor. In 1863 after 4 years when he criticized them, Ellen G. White received the message inhibiting meat-eating. Especially in this time she received the message that was meant forbiddance of pig meat. So she could eat pig-meat before. Of course she did not eat any meat in her later life. But it need so many period for her until cutting off meat by reason of some case. vegetarianism was not the health principle to Ellen G. White. She said that believers could never insist not to eat meat at all times, everywhere. She rejected vegetarianism to make the standard of believer of Adventist church. But she said “I advise every Sabbathkeeping Canvasser to avoid meat eating, not because this regarded as sin to eat meat, but because it is not healthful.” So t=I think that when we have a the hermeneutics of EGW, we should the generational status and the background.
I agree to Kenita Spencer's comment. in addtion, Jesus is the model of righteous man. but we are sinner. so I think that it is impossible to live as Jesus Christ. when we are reborn in teh name of Jesus Christ, we can live as Jesus,. but we are can't become Jesus as ever.
I agree to the comment of Bilan. He wrote "The fact that Ellen White admits that she is just a “lesser light” compared to the Bible, adds to her writings a great deal of value."
I know I understand I agree but nowadays some of extremists insist of equalism between the bible and the EGW's writing.
so her expression is very pertinent that "lesser light" which leads people to "the greater light,bible".
I like him ,Quigley Morris. and I read his comment of course I agree his comment about Dr. Hanna's book.
and I think another point. How can I explain to postmodernism generation about three books of God. I can explain it generally, but current generation has diverise thinking and aspects. so, when I go back to my church, how can I make them understand? I think this problem deeply.
I believe that the bible should be our only authority of faith. However, I also believe that Gods speaks to us in other ways like nature, etc. I agree with Dr. Hanna that all (Tota) Scripture is of divine revelation. This may sound obvious to believe, however, there are thousands of people who do not believe in the bible any more. It is for the first time that I read a more complete and full description of what Sola, Tota and Prima Scriptura is according to Chapter 1, page 19. These three principles are helpful in how to study the bible. I guess what impresses me the most about the bible is that it can stand by itself as a “sola’ revelation. I also agree that it does not contradict Christ, and nature. At the contrary, they support each other and complement for a better understanding on who God is. There are many people who are been blinded because of wrong teachings. If people could apply these three principles, it would be a guarantee that their spiritual discernment can be amplified. Just like the apostle, Peter wrote in 2 Corinthians 3:14-16. If people were faithful to these principles, they did not even need to have a MDiv. but with a sincere heart of trying to know the real Christ of Scripture these principles could be of a great guidance to help them know him better.
This comment is from the book, Understanding Scripture, chapter two, page 16. In this chapter, I read a quote from Ellen G. White about believes. Because this is the topic of my research paper, it is the reason why it got my attention. In this quote, she says that “God never ask us to believe without giving sufficient evidence upon which to base our faith.” If you notice, this comment is in opposition to the idea that God needs to gives a miraculous sign to proof his existence. We tend to believe that God is supposed to convince us according to our won desires. However, God has given enough evidence for us to believe. We just need to discover that evidence. It already exists. I quote from Ellen, “His existence, his character, the truthfulness of His word, are all established by testimony that appeals to our reason; and this testimony is abundant.” To doubt is normal for humans. God knows this. However, he has given enough evidence so doubt can be dissipated through his revelation. I am desperate to see that day when doubt will be no more. This doubt will disappear in its totality when Jesus comes for the Second Time.
Santos Medrano GSEM 510-2 Post #2 for Understanding Scripture Chapter 7, Pg. 127
This comment is in reference to the subdivision titled “Interpreting the Text” This subdivision is divided into nine steps. The step that I would be talking about is “Applying the text” I am always amazed to hear scholarly sermons where they do not make application or a call to apply the message into the lives of the people. That makes me think that if the preacher is not able to apply it to himself, much less he is going to ask the congregation to do it. What I learn from this chapter is when it says that” The application is extremely important. If omitted, the audience or reader may get the impression that we are dealing only with history.” Another mistake can be made if we try to apply the verse or text to soon. The risk is that, “the passage may be misinterpreted and the exposition remains shallow.” I would like to admit that I have made the mistake to apply the text early in the sermon. I do agree with the author of this book that people may get confused or it could be irrelevant if they do not completely understand the purpose of the passage. Everything fits better in its own time.
Santos Medrano GSEM 510-2 Post #3 for Understanding Scripture Chapter 13, Pg. 227-229
Allegory is something that I had trouble, both, understanding and applying in a sermon. After reading this chapter, it helped me understand a little bit more about allegory. From my understanding, allegory is a story that it does not have to relate to the text or scripture. This is kind of opposite to a parable. I quote from the book, “Allegory uses a story as an extended metaphor to refer to spiritual truths outside the literal meaning of the text.” This is contrary to “typology” which finds “the fount of its meaning in the historical and sees a parallel in a later historical event. “. This is the opposite of allegory, which takes no account of history. However, let us not confuse allegories with metaphors. An example of a metaphor is “You are the light of the world” (Mat. 5:14) An example of allegory is found in 4:21-23 when Paul speaks about the two women. One woman proceeded from Mount Sinai and the other one from above. In this allegory, Paul is saying that Agar belongs to the Mount Sinai covenant and makes a connection with slavery which means to be under the Law. Whereas Sara belongs to the New Jerusalem which is from above. If you notice, this is allegory because we can “never call a Jewish a slave simply because he belongs to a covenant given in Mount Sinai.” Sinai was holy land and God appear to them in that place. Why would they be slaves? What does Agar had to do with this event? Nothing at all. However, she was slave while she lived with Sara. Therefore, Paul is relating her slavery with the slavery of those who are under the law. The true Sinai is the one in heaven. This is the throne of God. Those who belong to this covenant are not slaves but free (saved). This is where the spiritual covenant was made before it was made on earth. As you can see, this idea does not make sense for the Jewish. The story does not fit with their context because Paul was using allegory. I hope this explanation makes sense. Please comment.
Santos Medrano GSEM 510-2 Post #2 for The Cosmic Christ of Scripture Part Two
I would like to say that I agree with Dr. Hanna about the concept of the principles of scripture. In this main principle, the first one is Tota Scriptura. It means that people should go to and fro in all scripture to increase knowledge. The book of 2 Timothy 3:16 support this concept. The other principle is Sola Scriptura. This means that the Bible should be our only rule of faith, practice, and knowledge. The third one is Prima Scriptura. This means that the Bible is first (prima) among other revelations including Christ and the Cosmos. I quote from Dr. Hanna’s book the Cosmic Christ of Scripture to support this conclusion, “Scripture is the final, supreme standard or guide for Christian faith, practice, and knowledge. “ (Pg.64) I have to admit that when I first read the Bible, it provided me so much light that through the word my life has been changed. However, I cannot give total credit to the Bible only for God’s miracle in my life. I do believe that God has used other means to affect my life. Therefore, according to my own experience, the bible does not have to be the prima source. What about those who have never read the Bible? Can God communicate to them by other means? Another example is those who existed before Moses. We know that Moses wrote the Pentateuch and these were known as the Law or scriptures; however, before him there was no written scripture especially after Noah and before Moses. The principles of Tota, Sola and Prima may work find in our generation. However, what about those in the past like Noah, etc. who did not had the scriptures? What was first for them?
Santos Medrano GSEM 510-2 Post #3 for The Cosmic Christ of Scripture
Let us say that I am a non-Adventist. One day I decide to read the book: The cosmic Christ of Scripture. In this book, I find out that the Bible is the greater light. Nothing wrong with that since the Bible is a written revelation that we have to know God better. Event thought I have not seen Jesus, the bible speaks of him in a way that I can know him better. The Bible has special content that facilitates us to have a relationship with him even thought we have-not see him. However, the problem is when it comes to Ellen G. White. In this book, Ellen G. W. is mention as the “lesser light.” The Cosmos can be a light. “Jesus said, I am the light of the world.” I do agree that the Cosmos, the Bible, and Jesus are lights that reveal the true God. However, how can she be a “light” whether is consider less or little if. From my understanding, she has only contributed to a better understanding of the Bible and not more light. Because of this is the case, then she needs to be added to the Cannon whether she wanted or not. Any suggestions?
Santos posted an assignment regarding the confusing truth about scriptural allegories. I have also wrestled with the idea. I have wondered how it is that we can determine that a story is allegorical when it is not clear within the text. Dr. Stefanovic has some great material on the subject that has helped me to understand. The key is that when Jesus speaks allegorically, He always interprets it so that there will be no confusion from those that will hear it.
I have noticed that many of my classmates have commented on the fact that the concepts contained in Dr. Hanna's book do not resonate with a postmodern generation. In fact, I believe that the upcoming generation of young people look to have their questions answered in deep and meaningful ways. I believe that this study is important for anyone who does not believe that the Bible should be taken as the legitimate Word of God.
Jaehyun said... #additionl comment after completed two part(6&6) comments
while I read some of comments, I thought "so, which is more big, deep,and wide between university and human's heart? I know this question is so fool. but on the other hand, I thank that it is possible to cpmpare another aspect. human's heart may have depth which have no end, width in any case.
even though ambiguous, but I think that it may not be wrong.
Iakopo Fuao commentted on Jessie Lopez's blog on Understanding Scripture - Chapter 1; 'How God can communicate with imperfect people? - I share your appreciation of God's awesomeness in His endeavor to communicate with imperfect people. The bible say that God revealed His purpose to the holy men moved by the Spirit. This holy mem, in the original meaning of the word doe not mean perfect or sinless. But simply means, men who were set apart by God for His holy purpose. But the Bibile also says that the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit...But who has known the mind of the Lord...But he who have the mind of Jesus.(1 Cor.2:14-16). So thanks for pointing that out, because only the imperfect people with renewed minds a and born again lives who are receptive to the things of the Spirit.
Iakopo Fuao comments on Marlon Gtrgory's blog onn Interpretings Scripture - Chapter 1:
I agree with you that this chapter provides some significance historical background of our SDA hermeneutical method of Bible Study and how we do thrology. I also share your concern about maintaining our traditional standing of Bible as authoritative and reliable as a rule of faith and practice. Unfortunately, this primary principle is ignored and underminded when the when our church redifined our position on the ordination of women to the ministty of elders and pastors. The redefinition is not supported by the greater light of the Bible nor the lesser light of the Spirit of Prophecy but simply for the non ordained American gospel workers to enjoy their tax benefits. For details, you can read "Receiving the Word, by Samuel K-Pipim.
Blog comments: Iakopo Fuao comments on … Jessie Lopez’s comment on Understanding Scripture – Chapter 2 J Lopez says, “How can God communicate with the imperfect people? I am with you in your grateful in God’s awesomeness in His endeavor to communicate with us imperfect people. I remember that the Bible says, ‘God reveals His purpose to the holy men moved by the Spirit.’ The holy men in the original meaning of the word, does not mean the perfect or sinless men, but it means men who are separated or set apart for God’s purpose. The Bible also says that the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God…For who has known the mind of the Lord?...But we have the mind of Christ. (1 Cor.2:14-16). Thanks for pointing this out, because only people with renewed minds and born again hearts can be receptive to the things of the Spirit.
Blog comments: Iakopo Fuao comments on … Jessie Lopez’s comment on Understanding Scripture – Chapter 2 J Lopez says, “How can God communicate with the imperfect people? I am with you in your grateful in God’s awesomeness in His endeavor to communicate with us imperfect people. I remember that the Bible says, ‘God reveals His purpose to the holy men moved by the Spirit.’ The holy men in the original meaning of the word, does not mean the perfect or sinless men, but it means men who are separated or set apart for God’s purpose. The Bible also says that the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God…For who has known the mind of the Lord?...But we have the mind of Christ. (1 Cor.2:14-16). Thanks for pointing this out, because only people with renewed minds and born again hearts can be receptive to the things of the Spirit.
Marlon Gregory’s comments on Understanding Scripture – Chapter 1: Fuao said, I agree with you about the significant information in this chapter concerning the historical background of our SDA hermeneutic methods. I also share your concern about maintaining our traditional standing on this principle of the authority and the reliability of the Bible as the rule of our faith and practice. Unfortunately, in the redefinition of our position on the ordination of women to the ministry of elders and pastors, this principle was deliberately ignored in order for the un-ordained gospel workers of America to enjoy their tax benefit. Unfortunately, the grater light of the bible and the lesser light of the Spirit of Prophecy does not support it. For details read “Receiving the Word” by Samuel K-Pipim. – Lord have mercy!!!!!
Iakopo Fuao comments on Kabah’s comment…. Kabah Stephen comments on Dr. Hanna’s book – Chapter 7: K Stephen says something about Jesus coming in the nature of the fallen nature of Adam. I am glad that Hanna did not spent time on that because definitely our scholars are divided on that issue and will remain like that till the coming of Christ. I believe because of our belief in progressive revelations, that is why we find scholars with different views on various issues especially on the natures of Jesus because He is God and we will never fully comprehend who He is. One thing I know for sure is that He was fully God and fully man without sin. And what Ellen G White says in the Desires of Ages that fascinates me every day is that he will retain His humanity for eternity, to me that’s really cool. And thank you for reminding me about the reality of His humanity and His death for me.
Comment on Robert Best's 1st comment in September 2009.
I couldn't agree more with Robert. Human reasoning can only go so far in the search for scriptural understanding. We are unable to comprehend this sacred book unless we willingly submit to the Spirit's testimony of Christ, as our wisdom and knowledge (Colossians 2:3).
Comment on Richard Calhoun's 1st comment in October 2009.
I am happy to hear Richard discuss the Old Testament's testimony of Jesus Christ. This truth confirms that Jesus is the central theme of both testaments. In John 5:39-40, we read, "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life." The Scriptures, spoken of here, were nothing more than the Hebrew Bible. Because Jesus was the only Hope upon which humanity could rely, it was imperative for Him to be exalted in the Old Testament.
NEW Comment on Andrew Pillegi's 1st Comment in November 2009:
Like Andrew, I do believe that everyone can interpret the Bible; but they must approach it with the proper hermeneutic if it must be properly understood. I also hold to the conviction that Bible study takes time and we must give careful attention to the words of the text that we might properly understand what was meant and how it applies to our lives.
142 comments:
Topic:
Ellen G. White Writing vs The Scripture.
Is Her Writing Really The Lesser Light?
I agree with Fredy Reinosa's comment about culture and tradition serving as a blockade to a more fulfiling relationship with Christ.
Wouabe
i enjoyed your comment and share all of your concerns on the topic. to me scripture is the the most powerful guide that is available to us today. i agree with you on the point that scripture is the only christian rule of faith. scripture stand in harmony with creation and they work together to point us to God. i think that Dr.martin did a great job with the topic and it seems to me you are enjoying the book.
Quigley Morris point to an important lesson that can be learned from those that went before us: witnessed for the truth with the life and death to bring us the sacred deposit that God has given to us, His Word. We should also live our lives so that we are such a witness.
Quigley Morris also points out that there are many who try to tear down what god has been building all these many centuries, His church. His church will go through, the question is will we go through with it.
Alain Blaise Wouabe commended both faith and reason to us. I do agree that faith and reason can work together. Anselm of the Middle Ages had a saying that says it well faith seeking understanding. At least sometime we must believe to understand. This world has many Doctors of theology that seem to do more doubting that believing, which results in much wrong teaching and confusion.
Alain Blaise Wouabe also rightly points out that right interpretation depends on divine in the here and now.
Brother Kenton had a quotable comment this month! He declares that God does not desire to be hidden, but it takes a lifetime to understand Him.
Praise the Lord because His ways are not our ways.
Kenton's comment also stood out to me! Too often we try to 'humanize' God, thinking that we can somehow fully understand Him, but seriously, there's a reason why He is GOD.
AND yet, He gives us more than enough to be able to know and experience His mercy, love and grace.
Andrew's comment "This self-reliance can easily lead us into a Jewish experience in which we fall short of fulfilling our ordained purpose in these last days" was also another that stood out.
Since we're all here in the seminary and we're getting an excellent education, there is the tendency to think that we're better than 'all those people' out there (or even in here for that matter). It is so important to not miss the big picture and to always stay connected to Him.
quigley
Paragis
i understand your pain and i share in your concern on the difficult answers that are require to help someone who does not believe in God. and to me what makes it even more difficult is the fact that the bible does not prove that there is a God. have you notice that God does not try to prove that he is God. when Moses said who will i say send me God reply was "I am that I am" so we must have the faith to believe. the bible says it is impossible to please God without faith. so when i meet this difficult people i just offer a pray and let the Holy Spirit to guide me. our battles are long and hard, our pains are deep and consistance but the day is coming when the world will know who is the kings of Kings.
The Cosmic Christ of Scripture: How to Read God’s three books looking at page 17 where it talks about “removing the veil of misunderstanding which covers the hearts and minds of people when they read Scripture” is something I simply want to comment on. Regarding the veil that blocks the truth, I believe that it is something we all have because of our background or original condition. We will have a bias view b/c our lens is based on our view and culture and society. Another problem is that we are born shape into iniquity. We have no desire to seek CHRIST. Instead, CHRIST comes to us and through life help us remove the veil of misunderstanding. My general understanding of the veil of misunderstanding is Sin but it may be a misunderstanding in my part. I think that the veil of misunderstanding can be a rejection of Ellen G. White as a prophet. In may case I have a veil of misunderstanding of who was Ellen G. White. The result to my veil that came on me was the result of false representation of Ellen G. White. I later got a true representation of the person of Ellen G. White and now no longer have I a misunderstanding of her purpose.
Can a veil of misunderstanding also be based on misunderstanding?
Can a veil of misunderstanding be a result of someone falsely presenting something to you of others (Ellen White)? Can the veil of misunderstanding that the world have of Christ be the cause of us? So called Christians who have given those in the middle questioning reasons to have this false veil of misunderstanding?
From my own experience, I have both cause other to be drawn closer to CHRIST and not so close to CHRIST. Do we ourselves have a veil of misunderstanding when we believe to have a veil of understanding and we claim to have the truth?
The truth is not an end but the continuous knowledge or revelation in which concludes in Christ.
I think the one who claim to not have understanding in his searching is most likely the one whose veil of misunderstanding is removed. For he leans not into his own under standing but leans in CHRIST.
I agree with Quigley that the pioneers worked very hard and for very long hours to get the understanding of scripture that they attained and have past down to us but the current culture of the day is to get it quickly and instantly and to rely mostly on the efforts of others while committing to very little effort ourselves.
I think that Guibert's comment concerning faith and the love of God was beautiful. It is true that we cannot explain his existence and we have caused to let it be true that we believe in him nonetheless. As christians I believe that though information innundates us and the cold world is daunting to us we must continue to have a sure faith because only through this way can we begin to know who Christ is and who we are. It is only through this that we can truly love. God Bless.
Kenita Spencer
Revelation, Inspiration and Hermeneutics
September 27, 2009
Comment on Assignment 1
Robert, I’m with you. If not for the Holy Spirit where would we be? It is tremendously comforting that if we are led by Him, we will do proper hermeneutics.
My comment:
I would like to comment on Wouabe's posting on September 6, 2009 comment 1. Reading your posting made me realize that there is always room for growth. The more educated we get the more we run the risk of thinking we know it all. Reading how you interacted with the chapter and brought key teachings of it into a personal application is evidence that you have a teachable spirit. And I agree with you, in dealing with the understanding of who GOD is, weather it be through the reading of Scripture or any other means “we need to be tolerant enough with those who don’t think like us”, simply because we do not know everything.
How do we help someone who has a veil of misunderstanding?
What do I do in the process to help in the removal of this veil of misunderstanding in a friend? We know that people may be so sure of what they believe, enough that they will give their life for it. And still be completely wrong.
They will persecute you believing they are doing the will of the Lord. Saul now Paul did exactly that.
Yes, prayer is import and asking what does the Lord have me to do? I have many friends who veil of misunderstanding is so strong I am concern. In Paul’s case Christ revealed himself. Did Christ remove the veil of misunderstanding from Paul?
I do not think that when Christ removed the veil, that it was against the desire of Paul. Christ did what was needed but the answer was still Paul to make. Paul accepted the call knowing what the price was, death. If he wanted to save his life Paul would have accepted to still be under the veil of misunderstanding. I think pride is one major factor that keep people in this veil of misunderstanding.
Has we look at Romans 1:20-28, how do we see this in light of the LORD keeping the veil of misunderstanding in this group of people?
I am not sure if I understand the veil of misunderstanding correctly. (I may still have a veil)
The question I have is that, are we completely free of the veil of misunderstanding?
1Cor 13:11-12
I am still learning and had some incorrect views. So is the veil of misunderstanding the rejection to be humble and learn from everyone, the lack of maturity, experience and/or those who rejected Christ?
Jacqueline,
Jacqueline you are very right on the role of the Holy Spirit when it comes Biblical interpretation and hermeneutics. Indeed the Holy Spirit guides and illumites our mind so that we can have a clearer understanding of God and thus we draw nearer to Him. I also agree on your statement that “The Holy Spirit is the hinge on which our faith and reasoning hangs when it comes to understanding the Scriptures
Comment on Wouabe's post on Chapter 3: Let the Holy Scriptures Speak! from “The Cosmic Christ of Scripture: How to read God’s three books”
I resonated with Wouabe's comments concerning our tolerance and openness to other schools of thoughts. Indeed, Scripture is to be taken serious and it has, by many, for a long time.
By no means do such comments propose that we bring our guard down as students and Christians. Instead we must recognize that our quest for truth includes many faithful and Bible believing Christians.
Why not learn from and appreciate our neighbors? Why not share- by now means does that mean "prove" our beliefs- our beliefs with others?
Jose,
I agree with you that it is good that Dr. Hanna brought out the importance of our devotional lives. I think that we have to use that God-given good sense when we study the Bible, and also pray to God for wisdom and understanding so that we don't misunderstand what the Bible is telling us. After all, we wouldn’t want to read that Judas hung himself and then tell everyone that the Bible is telling us that we should go and commit suicide.
Geographical, cultural and religious factors within Judaism have a credit for the development of three major distinctive approaches to the interpreting scripture. Rabbinic Judaism approach was promoting obedience to Mosaic Law and Hebrew scripture in order to protect Jewish tradition and identity from being diluted. Hellenistic Judaism adopted allegorical interpretations of scripture thought by Philo to accommodate its beliefs to the platonic expression of Greek philosophy. The ascetic Qumran community based their interpretation on eschatology, trying to show contemporary events relating to their own community fulfilled OT prophecies.
Christianity came from rabbinical Judaism context and expanded through the realm of Hellenistic Judaism before its challenges posed by paganism during the Roman Empire. Christ and the apostles emphasized on the exclusive authority of scripture over all other sources of religious knowledge. They did not followed hermeneutics of Judaism. Post- Apostolic Christianity lost its original hermeneutics by accepting the hermeneutics of Greco- Roman culture. During the middle ages, Biblical interpretation was dominated by Origen’s allegorical method of interpreting scripture; this method of interpretation helped the medieval church to claim biblical support for many of its non-biblical teachings. Some bible interpreters rejected the allegorical approach to scripture. During this same period Antioch Christian catechetical school also came up with historical-grammatical method of interpretation. During the time of the reformation, interpretation of scripture was focus on sola scriptura and tota scriptura- allowing the bible to speak of itself as a source of authority.
Method of interpreting scripture from the days of Judaism to our modern time has gone through different principles of interpretations. Even today theologians and many denominations continue to argue on which principle is the best method to interpret scripture. They all hold on to one principle or the other.
The development of the Seventh - day Adventist church method of interpreting scripture could be traced its genesis from the Millerite framework. Seventh-day Adventist continues to hold on to sola scriptura and tota scriptura as a means of interpreting scripture.
Cosmic Christ of scripture in its first part talks about how scripture teaches about Christ. According to scripture Christ is not a philosophical principle or energy diffused throughout the world. Christ is instead the creator of the universe. Many people find it hard to understand scripture because of their rejection of Christ. They reject Christ because their minds are blocked. It takes only Christ to open their minds for them to understand. To the writer many bible students have a problem of focusing on Christ who is the living word, for the fear of forsaking the authority of the writing word. Christ and scripture goes hand in hand. For scripture does not forsake Christ in the world, neither does Christ forsake scripture. Scripture reveals Christ to us while Christ points us back to scripture. Both are God’s revelations to the world. This idea was discussed under the following headings: three scriptural principles; three revelations of God and relations between theology and science.
Latin words, sola scriptura- all scripture, tota scriptura-scripture alone and prima scriptura- scripture first are the technical terms which serves as a guide for reading God’s revelation through scripture. God’s three revelations as revealed in this book are scripture, Christ and cosmos. All these revelations of God have it own primacy. In these we have ontological primacy of Christ, contextual primacy of the cosmos and the epistemological primacy of scripture. The relations between theology and science focus on how to fit these lines of revelations into the study of theology and science.
From the reading we can conclude that bible reveals to us who Christ is, and Christ is one of the medium through which God reveals Himself to us. Scripture itself is another form of God revelation to His creatures. Cosmos also by its beautiful design reveals to us the intelligent creator God. For theology and science to relate they need to acknowledge this fact of revelations.
As I read the eighth chapter of Understanding Scripture, entitled, “inner biblical interpretation: reading the scriptures intertextually,” I was drawn to the mentioning of christ throughout the reading. I just pulled a few out that really interested me.
Jesus is the center for inner biblical interpretation. He is the head of the new creation, the new Adam, the new Moses, the new Joshua, the new Israel, the son of David, the new Isaac, Solomon and Elisha, the consolation of Israel, the new covenant, the ultimate sacrifice, the high priest, the holy one of God, the prophesied shepherd, the bread of life and the sanctuary of God (pg 143-145).
From the perspective of Jesus and of the NT writers, the most important reason for the use of the OT in the new is to establish Jesus’ messianic authority and identity and to show that the he is the climax of the history of Adam, the patriarchs and Israel. The institutions of historic Israel, including the sanctuary and the festivals, find their purpose and their significance in the life of Christ (pg 147 #6).
Jesus cites the OT to show how he stands in continuity to its revelation and to show that he implements its principles. Nevertheless, even with such continuity, who Jesus is exceeds, by far, what was predicted about him (Pg 146 #9).
The NT use of the OT is grounded in the belief that Christ is the end or goal of the law (148 #14).
The Cosmic Christ of Scripture: chapter 3 “Let the Holy Scriptures speak.”
The author begins to speak on the role that the scriptures play in most peoples lives. Drawing upon the similitude of children who are seen but not heard, reference is made upon the silent but ever present nature of the unspoken word. The author then begins to open the book of Daniel in relation to the increase of knowledge in the latter days of earth’s history. It seems that during the close of time that the essence of wisdom that can only be found in the scriptures will be revealed. Herein we find the crux of this chapter. The author states that it is only through Christ and the cosmos that true knowledge of the scriptures can be obtained. The scriptures point to Christ and Christ opens and unlocks the light that is found within the scripture. Apart from Christ there can be no true understanding of the scripture for the scriptures are a testament of the incarnate Christ. In these last days Christ will reveal more and more of himself through the scriptures to a dying world that he seeks to save. It is through Christ that the lamp of scripture can continually shine. Brighter and most radiantly as the revelation from Christ is manifested to the mind that is mutually attached to the power behind the inspired text.
as i read ange's comment on the cosmic christ and true understanding, i pondered this:
where do we find understanding and is it an attainable attribute. can it be gleaned or taken in the hands of mere mortal man or is it elusive. does true understanding rest in the heart of mankind or is it something that's given by one who is divine. the essence of understanding is otherworldly, superceding and transcending the cogitation of mankind. it is higher than the highest human thought can reach. it is able to transpose itself on top of preconceptions and suppositions. christ came, christ died, christ live, christ is coming again. believe...understanding comes later
In response to John Coaxum’s comment on Chapter 2.
It seems as though the words “reason” and “doubt” can be interchangeable. “Reason”, when it comes to scripture, often carries skeptical connotation that waits for proof.
I may be incorrect but I believe that doubt/reason serves a purpose. (1) Without reason people would believe anything. (2) Faith cannot exist with doubt. It simply cannot -- like light cannot exist without darkness. I don’t think John suggested that we need to snuff out reason from our approach to scripture in fact he encourages it. However Christianity is in dire need of a church/body that is full of thinkers; people that can accept the inconvenient truth of faith and reason and unapologetically choose to believe in spite of it.
In Response to Donald Henderson's comment,
I have never really thought before how scripture takes precedent over Christ. At first when I read it, I was hesitant, but I realized that Scripture was given to us, in order that we can know Christ better. It is a direct link to Christ. How can know Christ if we don't know scripture? This is why it's so important that we search and study for ourselves
I appreciate and agree with what John said. We must understand the primacy of Christ and also see the authority of Scripture. Also like John said about the Pharisees, we can learn from them as Adventist. They put scripture or doctrine above the primacy of Christ. All things must point back to Christ in our ministry and in our sermons.
I really enjoyed reading Johns comment, “Is it Safe to Disregard the Prophet Ellen G. White?” I totally agree that there is much controversy and honestly some animosity over whether Ellen G. White’s writings are necessary for the church. The point John brought out in his comment on the necessity of testing the prophets was significant and is something that members in the church need to be reminded of before possibly throwing out one God has inspired to speak by his spirit.
Mark, I really resonate with your testimony. You said,"my realization of who I am in contrast to His glory and Holiness causes humility that places me in dependence and submission to Him and His will. Recognition of His love and His commandments demands my obedience, immediate and unwavering".. I too grew up in the church, the only difference is I grew up in the SDA church. I relied on the tradition of those around me without a true personal knowledge/experience of God. My moment of truth came when in a desperate attempt to find my place in the grand scheme of things, The Holy Spirit lead me to Jer 29:11-13. Since then I live in awe that I have the purpose of telling others about Him.
In response to Devin Anavitarte’s comment,
I must say I have had a different experience than you have. I have not purposefully thought about reading Scripture through a direct link to Christ in every aspect. I have always read the Bible through the lens as a follower of God who seeks to know what God’s will is for my life and those around me. In other words, I have read it more Theocentrically than a Christocentrically. I wonder the ramifications it has knowing that we serve a God of one than is both transcendent and imminent.
Robert Best comment,
One important aspect that Best brings into focus which needs to be commended for was the fact that the Holy Spirit makes hermeneutics possible. Although we may bring our presuppositions on the bearing scriptural text, but without the Spirit of truth leading us we are bound to make humanly approaches to divine issues.
In response to Guibert Etienne's comments on Chapter 2 of Cosmic Christ:
Guibert, I wholeheartedly agree with your desire to lead lay-people back to Scripture. Many Christians, even highly active ones, spend virtually no time reading or studying Scripture themselves. You said, "What is needed is a re-education of Christians of the proper method of bible study." I agree. The question in my mind, which stems from my experience in pastoral ministry, is not so much "What is the correct method of Bible study," but "how can we motivate people to study?"
The only answer I can offer in answer to this question is that our motivation must be a pull rather than a push. It's easy to tell people "You should study the Bible more!" It's tempting to preach a sermon an how important it is to study the Bible. But ultimately these things are probably not too effective. What I propose will be more effective is our modeling of Bible study. When people see that we are studying and reading the Bible ourselves on a daily basis, they will be more likely to rise to our level. The church won't rise above its leader. Additionally, we leaders must model correct hermeneutics. If we stand up in the pulpit and preach a sermon using metaphorical preaching, people will get the idea that that is how you study the Bible. I prefer to do simple exegesis and model it consistently. Examine what the text says. Then take that understanding and apply it to our lives.
Ryan Kilgore
Ainsworth Chambers said...
Topic:
Ellen G. White Writing vs The Scripture.
Is Her Writing Really The Lesser Light?
Concerning Ainsworth’s question from on Ellen G. White, I think that it is a good one.
Even though the question is still broad to me, I think that you are saying, yes we say that her writings are the Lesser light, but our descriptions and views of her writing does not but her as the Lesser light. If her writing was available during the time of the selection of the books in the Bible her book could or, but more it would have been selected. How do we balance this understanding, and still call her the Lesser light when she has all the requirement needed in term of the Word of the Lord as the Bible. I think that we must be aware of the different groups in the church: the fanatical, the liberal and those who have a balance view of her writing. It seems to me that we have more on the fanatical or liberal and less in the balance view. One view is if that Ellen G. W. said if we read the Bible like we should have, then we would not need her writings. So I will read the Bible more so I do not have to use her writing. This is unbalance thinking because her writing is for your benefit so now that it is here why not use it.
In my experience, I had a negative view on Ellen G. W. because of the fanatical who still today present her writings not the lesser light but the final answer when we cannot find a clear answer in the scripture. So is that the lesser light?
In the church you are looked upon as a person with problems when you are not ready to accept Ellen G. White. If she is the Lesser Light, why I am not allowed to take my time to accept her and if I decide not to accept her why is that a problem. Is my salvation, which is the Main and Only Point not possible? I believe in Christ and Christ is the one who leads me in His truth.
When we are dependent on her writing, and when she is our base of proving our point instead of using the scripture to do so, I believe that we have put her writing equal or more than the scripture.
I will recommend doing a study on who and what Ellen G White said about herself in the book “The messenger of the Lord”. I took this class with Dr. Hanna and it was a blessing to me. I had many of my questions answered.
One struggle is that if you live a pure life and the Lord inspires us in putting together something i.e a sermon, a book or etc… Can I view this work also has a lesser light?
To me I think that is still the only clarification I need.
I believe that in the last day The Lord will raise people with visions and dreams. How long do we test and make a work of someone, who The Lord used in a specific work as Ellen White was used, should that person works be seen as lesser light.
I do not think it is healthy to stop at Ellen G. White as the only prophet in our time. It may be so far in the SDA world but not outside the SDA world.
I do not thing that everyone who seems and sound inspired should be viewed or placed as less light. A balance is to me a way of approaching this and how long should it take us to accept others as less light.
We need more of the Holy Spirit and prayer in these last days which is declining significantly in those who call to be the remnant church specially in those I higher positions.
John, I appreciate your reflection on faith and reason. Yes, faith has primacy over reason. To acknowledge is humbling and loving. In other words, we are saying to God, “I believe you know all things. You are the great I AM and I submit to you.”
I’d like to emphasize the importance of the statement that Farron made in his comment:
“…if the search of Christ is only confined to scripture than the magnificence of Christ can be lost.”
This is so true! The understanding of that principal both humbles everyone who claims to have the knowledge of Scripture and open a wide door to the many other revelations of Christ in the cosmos. It is a timely treatment to the Church of Laodicea.
Guibert,
I can truly empathize with you as it relates to teaching our members how to engage in proper Bible study. In fact I think it begins with our stance as a church regarding our presuppositions, which our members have adopted. It seems as if we have taught our members that we have the absolute truth. If that is what we teach them then they will not even be concerned with doing a proper Bible study. We almost train our members to read the Bible to reconfirm what they already accept as absolute truth. So I suggest that as we teach them proper methods of Bible study, we also begin the process collectively as a church of reeducating our members to the view that we must continue to seek truth and as we do,we should be open to the possibility that we may uncover new insights that broaden or change the truth we already have.
Cosmic Christ of Scripture, Chapter One-Introduction:
The primary thing that stood out to me as a theme of the introduction, per say, was the theme of three. We read in Scripture that a cord of three stands cannot be easily broken. The God-head or trinity is three and here in this book we have a focus on the three books of God which do not 'eclipse' one another in anyway. Even using the bicycle wheel as an illustration we see three components; the cosmos as the wheel, Scripture as the spokes, and Christ as the hub. We traditionally use scripture to interpret itself.
Another theme I saw was the unveiling and light. Our unveiling happens as we focus on the light of Christ's face. Marriage, to me, is a prime illustration of this principle. As Christ is the head of the church so the husband is the head of his wife and when a husband is following the command of scripture to give himself up for her as Christ did for the church her countenance will reflect the love he is showing her. Reflection cannot happen if there is a veil.
The writings of E.G. White are deeply supportive of scripture and can be an illumination to it. I'm glad the author pointedly addressed his stand on this sometimes controversial issue especially considering that various readers may not be of a Seventh-day Adventist background.
I am writing in this blog on Chapter one of "Understanding Scripture" I had never realized that William Miller and the early Adventists made such a contribution to the scholarly hermeneutical processes of the Scripture.
I understand the importance of a proper hermeneutical approach and a proper understanding do scripture and prophecy. I see the grave importance of ministers learning how to correctly and effectively draw out the meaning of scripture in order to preach and teach the truth. I see the importance of those called to be scholars studying and providing good resources for the rest. I get all this. But here is my question: Many of you may not like it and I may get severely chastised for say this but I must regardless.
Salvation comes through one source and one source only. Jesus Christ our Lord, Now, it is important that we truly know and understand what He did for each one of us. We must not misinterpret what the scriptures tell us about Him. Many of the prophesies tell of His goodness and help us to understand Gods' character and ultimate goal a little better. But knowing or not knowing the prophesies of Daniel and most of the prophesies of Revelation will not affect salvation. Who why is it that we as a church spend so many hours and so much money on books, studies, Bible conferences, etc. to argue how to study these prophesies when we could be using that time and money to grow our own relationship with the Savior and to teach others about Him?
Of what eternal significance is it to argue about different types of hermeneutics? Will I be assured of salvation if I turn my back on the historical-critical method? Will I see the pearly gates if I embrace grammatical-historical method? Or will I be saved if I let Jesus come into my life and I give my heart to Him? What about the people from the jungles of the world who only hear about Jesus, accept him but have not concept of hermeneutics? Will they be saved?
Richard Calhoun response
Paradise
Comments on Chapter 3 of Understanding Scripture: An Adventist Approach
I agree with Paradise on the grounds that we as Christians sometimes take for granted that everyone does not hold the bible as an accurate authoritative book. For us to use gods revelation through creation to reach those who don’t see the validity of the bible. In psalms 19:1 its says 1The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. God use many avenues to reach mankind.
I am commenting on Marlene’s question as to why some Adventists are disregarding the Bible as the Word of God. The answer may have many parts but the central theme is that many of the activities we engage in today neutralize our love for the Word. So many of the sermons we hear at churches are merely versions of possibility thinking and concoctions of motivational speaking. Secondly in some instances the quarterly designed to encourage Bible Study becomes the actual tool to limit the same. Reason we underestimate the enemy of souls. Thirdly many have rejected both consciously and unconsciously the lesser light provided to serve as a catalyst for deeper study.
In essence we have not continued to put Christ first in our lives. This will have a reverberating effect in our lives and overtime we will become spiritually blind. You see men like Luther had a passion for Christ. They had the ‘whatever it takes to serve him syndrome.’ Finally for a long time in this denomination the Holy Spirit had been relegated to a seat in the bleachers as we highlighted God the Father and God the Son. This had the catastrophic effect of lessening his role in the lives of believers.
In response to Ange "Can a veil of misunderstanding be a result of someone falsely presenting something to you of others (Ellen White)? Can the veil of misunderstanding that the world have of Christ be the cause of us? So called Christians who have given those in the middle questioning reasons to have this false veil of misunderstanding?"
Scripture says that we would rather have a millstone tied to our neck and thrown to the deepest part of the sea that suffer what Christ has in store for us if we offend one of His little ones-Little ones in this application being those who are younger in Christ than ourselves. Simply, yes.
Please clarify, is the issue of Ellen White an issue of misunderstanding? Do people who are part of other denominations who do subscribe to her teaching have the inability to understand scripture fully?
I like Jose Medina Jr’s comment on Biblical exegesis. Going over a passage helps us to understand the Scriptures better. Many times I have memorized a passage in order to go over it time and time again until one day God opened the passage to me. It is such a good feeling to receive a revelation from God.
I agree with Robert Best’s comment about the need for the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit makes the ground level. Some have a stronger intellect than others, but when it comes to understanding Scripture it doesn’t matter. The Holy Spirit can reveal God’s truth to anyone in a way he/she can understand.
After a careful analysis of Michelle Itschner, I cannot help but to endorse what she is saying in her article from the book “Cosmic Christ of Scripture. She refers to Dr. Hanna instruction as wisdom. It is true Ellen G White is popular among the Seventh Day Adventist community and not the wider society. However, her writings support Scripture. She also states that, Dr. Hanna encourages us to study the Scripture exclusively in order to have a deeper understanding. “Go to and fro through the Scripture and other writings…” Well done Michelle
After a careful analysis of Michelle Itschner article from the book “Cosmic Christ of Scripture. I cannot help but to endorse what she is saying. She refers to Dr. Hanna’s instruction as wisdom. It is true Ellen G White is popular among the Seventh Day Adventist community and not to the wider society. However, her writings support Scripture. She also states that, Dr. Hanna encourages us to study the Scripture inclusively in order to have a deeper understanding. “Go to and fro through the Scripture and other writings…” Well done Michelle
Quigley Morris
respond to Marlene J. King article
i share your pain and i am of that same opinion too. i do not get it with our people, that is not freedom and that is not what is stand for to do what you want. andrews should be the light house of advintizim but enen here we have double standards with believing the scriptures. our people today are very educated we read lots of book and so every one become his own judge. we read how wnd what we want and give any meaning to and justify our selves as our understand. so what you find every one believe what he wants in his own way. just look at the sabbath day and see how we are keeping it i wonder what is God saying. we buy we sell we do all that we want as if the scripture is not available and we are operating as if we forget what it says God have mercy.
Massiel,
I thought that your insights on the comment of God speaking to us was meaninful and heartfelt. I am thankful that God has chosen to condescend to speak to man and I am thankful that He has a variety of ways to do that. I cant imagine where I would be had He not taken the initiative to sit down at my table or visit me at my bedside. Praise Jehovah for taking the initiative to open the lines of communication. I am left wondering why I (and perhaps others) communicate with Him so rarely
I am in agreement with Jessie Lopez when he says “ God’s divine word (scripture) never changes. Just because we are living in a different time period then the writers of the bible, doesn’t mean we can change the biblical doctrines according to our modern culture”. Its should also be known that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Therefore his principles remain. There is harmony in the Scriptures and it will never contradict itself as it is God breathed
I agree on this statement by Fredy Reinosa “We need to understand that God can not contradict himself , and that there is unity in the scripture”. Indeed we should at all time know that there is harmony in the Scripture and if we don’t depend on the guidance and direction of the Holy Spirit when it comes to reading of the Scriptures our study will be in vain. .
I like Richard's comment on chapter 3 in Cosmic Christ. That was a big subject when i was on the field and discussing the Old Testament with people of the Church of Christ. I like what that chapter says and the addition Richard adds. Christ is the theme of the entire Bible, praise the Lord! The sermon and the appeal. The prayer and the amen! The Alpha and the Omega!
Commenting on Quigley Morris' statement regarding the word of God. I was blessed by your testimony about your uncle. Praise the Lord that God was able to reach him by the Word. I'm trying to understand your point. Are you disagreeing with the idea that the particular words were not inspired? By saying that the Bible writers were inspired in thought does not leave out the fact that in some instances their words were inspired as well. Overall, whether words, thoughts or both, the entire Bible is inspired. We know this because of texts such as 2 Timothy 3:16 and Hebrews 4:12. Saying that there are portions of the Bible where the actual words were not inspired does not take away from the inspiration of it. Actually, the nature of the inspiration of the Bible is congruent with God's plan of salvation in which divinity has been merged with humanity, however, divinity trumps humanity overall, which is why God's word is "living and active."
Commenting on Yong shin Chee's comment regarding chapter 6 of "The Cosmic Christ of Scripture."
I totally agree with this chapter and comment. It is very easy to spend one's entire life studying the Scriptures and yet never encounter Christ; the Pharisees are a perfect example. The purpose of the Scriptures is to lead us into a deeper relationship with our Savior. If we are not studying with the purpose of encountering Christ then we are wasting our time.
I'd like to comment on that Yong shin Chee said in October Comment #1.
I agree with the statement "It would do well for us to not ‘humanize God". I think this is very true. We make the mistake when we look at Divinity as though from an "outsider's" prospective, rather than from the prospective of a redeemed sinner. I prefer to know my God (my Father, my Jesus, my Holy Spirit) personally than to have a lot of information about the doctrine of Trinity and at the end hear the words of Jesus "I don't know you".
John
Is it Safe to Disregard the Prophet Ellen White?
I appreciated your comment and biblical approach to prove that it’s not safe to disregard the Prophet Ellen White. I think, the problem they (those who want to disregard the writings of Ellen White) have is a problem of authority, they think (surely from the way EGW’s writings are being used in the Church) that they are placed as equal authority with the Bible. EGW herself has never said it. The Church has never claimed it. The use the Church is making of EGW’s writings must not lead people to think what we are not saying. I think the problem is not whether EGW is a prophet or not, the problem should be whether what she is saying is Scriptural or not as you rightly say it: “we are told to do the testing by the law and the testimony, the Bible”. Let those who disregard or want to disregard her as a Prophet prove it from her writings. Even if they don’t want to recognize her as a Prophet at least they are to accept her writings as so many others daily published and used in the Church.
I think that the problem with Ellen White is not her problem but it is a misunderstanding and abuse of her ministry by our church . Specially the majority of the so called "conservatives ". There are some groups in the church who worship Ellen white . Sometimes it seems that we have our own"pope". I think adventists need to have a clear idea of Inspiration .I think it is very dangerous when we take her writings out of context and when we treat her as the infallible interpreter of scripture . She never endorsed that.I think Seventh day adventist need to go back to the bible and not be afraid of that . I believe that she was a prophet , but I believe also that she was human . I know she never claim perfection and she always pointed people to Jesus but for 150 years we have been pointing people to Ellen White .
Quigley
i understand Kenton's point of view on the point of understanding God. i have always said to my people and every one i have had a chance to talk do not try to understand God but just trust him. and if you believe in him trust him. we cannot guest him. we cannot estimate him, we cannot hurry him into action. God is beyond our thoughts so all we as creaturs of his creation can do is to be patient and trust him.
the people before us who you said was more willing to follow him i do not think so they were as bad as we are to day. for that matter God destroyed two cities and flooded the whole world. the point is people we men, we are the most unplesent group of God creation and he love us so much he died to save us man some times i just sit and think and i am over come with so much love for hime because sometimes it seems to me i can catch a glims of who he is to me.
Guibert has raised a question that we must address. Have we complicated the Gospel? Have we, in an attempt to have all the answers, watered down the message. Is it absolutely necessary to be able to interpret the original language? I believe that we as pastors have the responsibility to have a deeper understanding in order to present the message more clearly. We must make the message simple so that many will hear and come to a knowledge of Jesus and find salvation.
I am intrigued by Wouabe's comments about our freedom to create our principles of interpretation. He is correct in his assessment that we have created our own division by creating our own methods of interpreting scripture. Perhaps we should go back to square 1 and begin again with the proper tools to eliminate our differences.
Guibert Etienne did a good job by revealing to us how the Godhead works in our lives. It is true that we cannot understand God exhaustively. What is important is that God loves us and He is always ready to have a relationship with us. God did reveal Himself to us in so many ways. He even sent Jesus to die for our sins and to reveal to us His will. God’s motif is to dwell with us. Even in our sinful nature, through the Holy Spirit God continue to speak to us. By sending Jesus to die for our sins, He gives us an assurance of salvation.
Freedy
I agree with you that there seems to be an abuse of EGW's ministry by our Church. First, considering that fact, How would you define a proper use of EGW's ministry? Second, I humbly think that we should distinguish between the Church as Organization (Doctrines, Principles ...) and the Church as members (GC President, Pastors, ...) Some members can misuse the ministry of EGW. Are we going to condemn the Church for it? I don't think so. As far as I know, the Church has never disciplined a Pastor or a member for not speaking about EGW, not using her writings in his/her preaching an so on. Once more, I think the problem is with us church members, not with the Church.
My Comment:
I would like to comment on Ainsworth Chambers' posting on October 1, 2009. I want to commend you on how well you have capture the of the author of The Cosmic CHRIST of Scripture. Dr. Hanna does “states that he is convinced that the Scripture is the only Christian rule of faith, practice and knowledge” while leading the reader to realize that as such the Bible recognizes the other sources by which we may receive revelations from GOD. In his “wholistic model” that would include CHRIST HIMSELF and the cosmos. I was wondering what are your thoughts on Dr. Hanna's “wholistic model” for receiving GOD's revelation? Do you agree with it, yes, no, and why?
Comments on: Richard Calhoun Jr. Chapter 5 Reading the Revelation of Divinity in humanity: will the real Christ stand up? “The Cosmic Christ of Scripture”
Richard brings up a great point in his commentary on chapter 5 regarding humanity’s ability to understand the divine. I resonated well with the belief that we need to avoid putting God in a box because not only would we make God small, but we would also hinder a deeper understanding of who God is. Also, being surrounded with so much skepticism can provoke us to have a dialogue that assumes we know everything there is to know about Jesus. As we continue pursuing understanding of God, we need to humbly recognize that the journey of knowing Christ fully will never be over, nor complete.
PABLO ARIZA
Commentary on Sampson Appiah-Kubi take on Cosmic Christ.
Sampson’s comments on the reading in Cosmic Christ were very intriguing and sound. What I found most significant was the way he demonstrated the close relationship Scripture and Christ have together. The reader of Scripture needs to recognize that Christ is real. For others it may seem that Jesus was simply a good man who did extraordinary things, but failure to recognize Jesus as the prime revelation of God would be contrary to the teachings of Scripture. Furthermore, we can affirm that position with the constant references to Jesus in prophecy and epistles. Not only do writers from different times point to the actual revelation of God through Jesus, but Jesus himself pointed others back to Scripture. This relationship that placed importance between each other needs to be embraced together.
In response to Jose L. Medina Jr.'s comment of The Cosmic CHRIST of Scripture Chapter 3, I appreciate your thorough understanding of Dr. Hanna's Material. But what struck me, was how at the end, you said that you thought that Dr. Hanna's thoughts were Bible based, but worthy of prayerful consideration and upon conviction of the Holy Spirit, life application. That is great, I've never heard (read) anyone acknowledge that even when someone says something that seems right..the person still conscientiously says to pray and ask for conviction if it is true. Well done Jose!
A response to Enoc Lopez's comment: I totally agree with the concept that doubt and reason are essential if faith and understanding are to take place. The true Christian will be challenged to move beyond doubt and reason and accept by pure faith the words of God.
In Understanding Scripture “the Holy Spirit in Hermeneutics” Talking about the Holy Spirit, I was very surprised of the fact that evil spirit was mentioned in the process of hermeneutics. I think that this understanding raises lots of question for me. A question that I have is the spirit behind the modern spiritual books we have today and also the spiritual life of those involved in modern Bible translation. I have no problem with the need to make the Bible easy and plain for people to read but how many versions do we need? I know that the KJV has some verses which needs help and other versions do a better job but when is it enough. Looking at church history and seeing the way Satan has attempt to corrupt the truth by being with in the church, is not this happening today?
We have today those who call themselves 7TH Day Adventist with the belief that the creation account was not true literal days. So, this door, which is now open to the enemy to plant more bad seed, and we allow this teacher to teach truth to the student in a Christian school. What a firm message of what we believe.
It is very interesting that we talked of presupposition as something to be cautious but we forget that it is important to have some presuppositions. I will reject both extreme that to have presupposition is a must and to not have any presupposition is a must. Do you know anyone in the scripture who did not have any presuppositions? I believe that it is important to some presupposition if you attend to have an easy and good hermeneutic. Some that I think are important are: the Bible is the inspired word of GOD, all books agree among each other to the main theme of salvation and that it has unity of scripture.
And because every author of the Bible had a presupposition so the bible itself has its own presupposition to the reader. We have focus and mention more of the hindrance of presupposition and forget that there is a blessing in having a good presupposition.
Our life journey helps us see the scripture in a more personal way because of our experience. We have a background which is only unique to us and we can see in the scripture what others will not be able to see. The word of GOD we must remember is infinite and all the living being coming together cannot exhaust all possibility of the meaning of a text. I love to listen to others share their meaning of a passage in the scripture. I have always experience from others sharing their understanding of the scripture, to have something new and amazing that I did not see. The Bible is a living Word and it is relevant to us no matter what our experience in life was.
I agree that we need to do a better job on our study of Ellen G. White. I think that we are lacking the fact that it may be a Word for the world the Bible that is Complete. And a Word from GOD to certain people but to later be for all people. Thinking outside the box and several thoughts at once is something we need to master.
I would like to comment on ange's comment. life is all about learning. the veil can be removed but it is through christ that the veil comes of. the holyspirit leads us into all truth. it is through our following the lead of the holy spirit that the veil of misunderstanding is removed.
I agree with Jose Medina, biblical exegesis is hard and honestly before I came to seminary I never knew what it was. I have realized and presently know that it is necessary. Many times truth is treated like a commodity that is only fit for the privelleged which is why I did not know what exegesis was and I dare say many people in the church most likely still don't know. Our mission as spiritual leaders will be to promulgate the truth thereby lighting up the darkness which means not to give a man a fish for a day where he will only stay a live for one night but to teach him to fish so that he will have food for life.
I agree with Kabah Stephen for the most part but the part where I disagree is that scripture will readily unviel itself to the diligent student. It is the diligent student that realizes that scripture is not easy to understand which is why the diligent one is the individual that is in constant study. We get to understand through walking with Christ that the more that we see him is the more that we realize how little we really knew him. With scripture the more we study the better we will become at grasping concepts and understanding but as we continuosly study be assured that there will be some verses and or chapters that will boggle the mind and deafen the senses.
Ange, your point was well taken. There is a place for presuppositions when it comes to understanding the word of God. However, the emphasis must be placed on being aware of our presuppositions that hinder or advance our understanding of scripture.
Farron, your point was well taken. God will take his time to reveal his mysteries to us. In the fullness of time Jesus, the word made flesh came to us. God is a timely God. Our response to his timing should be patience and attentiveness.
One lesson I've taken away from your comment is that we must study the word of God for ourselves. We must sit and learn under the hospice of the Holy Spirit. This in no way negates the place of learning and understanding scripture within a community of believers, but the Holy Spirit is our primary teacher.
Kenita, I can agree with the quote you placed at the end of your comments, regarding the need for the the Seventh-day Adventist church to continue to search for a deeper understanding of the Biblical model of revelation and inspiration.
As a matter of fact as a church we need to unite on a model for revelation inspiration. It is important as a foundation for our beliefs and our claims of Biblical authority.
Massiel, I agree with your comment. Often times we Seventh-day Adventist things in reference to others. We are the fold that they will return to. We can become a little smug in our beliefs of being the 'remnant". We run the risk of not turning the texts around and asking ourselves some hard questions: "how it relates to us as a church?" "What does it mean to me?" I pray that we'll realize the Scriptures are in fact a two edged sword which cuts both side and that we don't have all the truth.
In response to John R. Treat on historical research:
I agree that “the hermeneutics of doing theology needs to be directed by the word of God.” I also agree with what Ellen White wrote that study of historical documents can be helpful when studying the Scriptures, but not essential. It is true that the essence of God’s teachings are plain to understand. Yet what would be the purpose of historical study? If it is to seek capital-T Truth in the writings of the great teachers of ages past, then of course, we have gone beyond what is healthy. But if it is to understand the context in which the events of the Bible took place, then it is extremely important. For example, many of Jesus’ parables were based on common teachings of the day, yet with a twist that made his hearers think. If we didn’t understand that from what we find in history, we may miss the point Jesus was making in some cases. You’re right to say that history does not point the way to heaven. But Scripture was not written in a vacuum, and the more we understand the people, places, events, teachings and culture of the time of the Bible, the better we will be able, with the Holy Spirit guiding, to understand the Bible itself.
Ryan Kilgore
in response to Ange on Oct. 30.
I see what you are saying about presuppositions and that we all have them is very true. No one can do anything without the influence of their presupposition. However, I have many times encountered people who use their presuppositions as a crutch and excuse themselves. It is my firm belief that unless directly inspired by the Holy Spirit as to the meaning and ramifications of a text, no one will ever be able to truly understand or grasp or preach that text. Unless we are able to identify, understand and set aside every single presupposition that we carry, we must rely on seeing through a glass dimly. But soon we will see clearly and know wholly even as we are known.
sorry, name did not show up. I made that last comment.
Jonathan Mercill
Kenita your comment touched my heart deeply because I culd feel your struggle as you wrote about Ellen G. White. I love your honesty and how you let the material in class speak to your issues. I too struggled with Ellen White and God led me to a class in the summer on the Life and Ministry of Ellen G. White. It was a most enlightening experience. I could ask any question and left feeling valued as a person seeking truth. My struggle was with the word prophet. In leaving Catholicism I had left all my saints and Mary behind. It was difficult to embrace what I perceived to be an Adventist saint at the time. God delivered me from the turmoil and I have found peace. It is a very important step in the journey and I know that God will be with you because you are honest before Him. God bless and keep you. I recommend the book The Messenger.
I agree with Andrew Pileggi comments on matthew 24 and luke 21. I believe sometimes we focus too much on scare tactics to and what the enemy is doing. We should be aware of these different events but that shouldn't be our focus as so much as spreading the Gospel and correctly explaining it. I pray that we as a church know and study God's plans and prepare our hearts from Him as much as we as a church focus on "end time readiness"
Debbie W certainly asks some very important questions with regards to the difference of opinions in the SDA context. Why indeed do we argue the way we do? Too often it seems to get out of hand because as SDAs we're more concerned with 'winning the argument' rather than loving one another as God has commanded. When we do that, we have already unwittingly chosen the side of the devil in the Great Controversy.
i find Robert Best comments very interesting and to an extent i support his feelings. i think our pass have given us enought evidence to trust Gods words without thinking twice.
but i do not believe in a blind faith; faith is never blind; what you believe in may be blind to me but to you your trust in God is all you know and see so you are not blind because your hope is on the one you know.
the other side is base on your relationship with God, your pass lessons with him have given you the insight that he is going to do some thing for you.
you can follow him blindly because you trust him and you know he will do what is best for you. but i do not think that is blind faith, in my opinion faith is never blind because in faith we can see all there to know about the love and grace of our God.
we can take the Word of God for granted because we know of its power to move people but not granted to close our eyes to its profound truth.
robert
i understand your feeling on the story about Jesus and the blind man. but let us fact the facts of this story Jesus is the maker of humanity; we cannot tell him how to fix a problem. he knows of every wire, every boult, and he know every function of every strand of hair on the body. so you will discover there are a thousand ways to fix one or our problems. but he is not about just fixting us but he is in the business of fixing and saving humanity. so it does not matter to me, water, spit, mud, fire, plants what ever he choose to used it is the maker in action just sit back and watch his creative hands put us together.
Joshua I really liked the way you described JESUS' authority. “His authority is based on love not lording over someone.” It is so amazing how even though HE has so much power HIS love is even greater. If we would only open our hearts to receive HIS love and be willing to share it, as HE is willing to share it, our world would be such a better place. I guess one could say that HIS loving ways verify HIS authority, because it was a loving GOD that created in the first place. Only the Creator can have all authority over HIS creation.
I want to express my agreement with Ainsworth Chambers’s comment. Even though it is clear that we cannot “strip” ourselves from our culture and thus its presuppositions, the only way to meet God in Scripture is in humble readiness to accept a fact of possible self-corruption and limitation. No matter how sensitive we are to our own ethnicity or culture if they are the main focus of our attention we will miss God of Scripture. Yet, we cannot expect the same approach from those we share the Gospel with. In our effort to reach other cultures we must learn the “roots of worldview” of those we come in contact with in order to present God in the most acceptable way possible.
GSEM 510-2 Revelation, Inspiration and Hermeneutics 2009
Professor: Dr. Martian Hanna
Name: Ainsworth Chambers
Comment on Massiel
In commenting on Massiel blog, there is a quote in his blog from Dr Martin Hanna book, “The Cosmic Christ of Scripture,” “We cannot talk about God unless we talk to God. We cannot talk to God unless He had first started the conversation. One has to realize that God has revealed His character to us so that we can know Him better. Massiel states that the door between God and us is always open. The only close door between us and God is the one we place there when we turn and refused to respond to His invitation.
He concluded by saying that an ongoing conversation and exchange with and about God, He made the first move so we wouldn’t doubt His intentions. He’s in this with us for eternity.
GSEM 510-2 Revelation, Inspiration and Hermeneutics 2009
Professor: Dr. Martian Hanna
Name: Ainsworth Chambers
Comment on Kabah Stephen
Kabah Stephen made mention in the second chapter of the book “Understanding Scripture An Adventist Approach” under the topic: Faith, Reason and Holy Spirit in Interpretation of Scripture” that it is a clear indication that one cannot fully understand the truth of the Scripture without the aid of the Holy Spirit. He goes on further by saying that “interpreting the Scripture is a religious experience, not simple an intellectual one.” This is perfectly true.
It is important for us to realize that when an individual is interpreting the Scripture without the aid of the Holy Spirit, doing it for the glorification of their intellectual skills is always in danger of false interpretation. However, he says that “interpreting of the Scripture is also an intellectually enriching experience;” which I do believe it true. In concluding he states that “Faith transcends reason, because it is not limited to human theories, logic, reason, knowledge, and understanding.” Overall I do believe that he has done a good job.
Andrew’s thoughts on chapter 7 are well stated. One point that resonates with me is that although the guidelines for interpreting scripture is well stated, the application of them is a timely process. Furthermore, we need not get caught up in a “microwave” method of interpreting the Word of God. This is a work of a lifetime, which requires diligence and integrity. Our transformation depends on it.
Debbie, I appreciate your comment on bibliolatry. The devil is subtle in his ways. By his leading, “ardent students of the Word of God [can] regard the Bible as being ontologically superior to God himself.” As we study the Word of God we must never get complacent in that we forget to invite the Holy Spirit to be our Master Teacher who will lead us into ALL truth.
Responding to Robert Best's comment on Old Testament prophecy. I would agree that we SDAs have a different understanding of prophecy than everyone else. I would also say that our understanding is correct. However, I would disagree that the lack of understanding on the part of our other brethren (1st day) is due to a lack of study on their part. We must remember that our church was born out of the Millerite Movement, a movement filled with men and women who had responded to the call of God. Our understanding of prophecy is the result of God imparting that knowledge to us, a knowledge that He expects us to humbly share with the world.
Responding to Kenita's comment on interpreting Ellen White's writings. It is so true that we have to interpret Ellen White's writings using the same principles with which we interpret the Scriptures. Many times we find members who have misinterpreted an Ellen White quote because they failed to acknowledge the context of her statement. I believe that many times believers use her writings to support their own ideas by going to her writings with a presupposition. Often, her writings are used to support our prejudices or cultural preferences, but of course she is misinterpreted in the process.
Farron Gibson did her best by trying to explain to us the prophecies of the OT. the important point she made was the idea of faith in understanding divine will and purpose. to her predictive prophecy was given to man by God not to satisfy man's curiosity about the future events but for moral purpose. in all the prophecies of the OT God was concern about the moral situation of His people and His willness to accept them back when they turn from their wicked ways.
I agree with you Yong shin Chee, Seventh-day Adventist do seem to be more concerned about winning an argument than loving people. It's almost as if we believe that knowledge will save us...What do you think can help us overcome this tendency?
Very interesting Question, that one you just raised . According to George Knight we learn win converts by debating . When A Seventh day Adventist ,would go to a new place he looked for a leader of another church and would start a debate ,if he won ( in most cases they did ) he would win of the hearers many converts , according to Dr. Knight during the 1880's we have learn to debate between ourselves , the result the conflict of Minneapolis .Farron , it is so hard to overcome this tendency , I believe the only way to overcome this is to look at Christ ,instead of looking at the issues .I think the problem is that we think that we need to defend " the truth" . Truth defends itself . So I ask myself "I want to say something so I can look good " Or to make Jesus look good . Very sad many people talking about perfection ,victory over sin and many other things but speaking against our church with a " holier than thou"attitude .And they forget about "Unity " Jesus last public prayer (John 17) I hope we learn and finally respond to Jesus .
Comments on Joel Bohannon’s Response to Chapter 8 of Understanding Scripture
I share Joel’s appreciation for the chapter’s constant reference to Jesus. There is much significance to approaching Scripture with such presupposition and also in understanding the objective in the study of Scripture.
The important role of Christ in Scripture is that He is central to Scripture. We must be able to see who all the teaching of Scripture can culminate in the life of Christ. We must not forget that Christ was the best revelation of God that man has ever known, so the centrality of Christ in Scripture helps us know God in a closer and fuller manner.
There are many faithful Christians who do not feel the Old Testament holds significant relevance since the Resurrection of Jesus, but the OT holds significant relevance in New Testament and in the present. Because of the OT Christians are able to establish the Messianic authority Jesus had. Also, Christ constant reference to OT demonstrates the continuity of Scripture. We cannot ignore the tremendous role the Old Testament had in the life of Christ and in the study of Scripture.
Kenton makes a good point when he mentions how we try to humanize God. WE forget that He is perfect, and in his divine grace and wisdom does not have the same thought-process that we do, and that is such a good thing. So often we justify our sins, so much that they become non-sinful to us. God does not justify anything. He lays the truth before us, and it's our job to either accept it or deny it. Christ doesn't play favorites or isn't swayed by human emotions or feelings or selfish motives.
In the book Understanding Scripture. An Adventist Approach the chapter title “the text and the canon of scripture” lead me to think of this question. What is the difference between the OT and the NT testament authority?
When we look at the Hebrew scriptures (OT) which were translated to Greek, we see that there were some presuppositions in their translation. We see that some passages when critics evaluate then in the Hebrew language seem to differ when compared to the passages in the Greek. Is it any value in the OT Greek translated? Is it simply difficult to truly have the entire message from the original language?
The section History of the NT Canon. We know that the history of the NT canon is not as complex as its OT counterpart. I think that understanding the process to the OT canonization is important for our understanding of the Bible. How do we address this statement in (Matt 5:33-34; 38-39; 43-44) “you have heard that it was said…. but I say”?
Is it a difference in authority with the NT when compared to the OT from this statement? Was he only referring to the OT or other additional teachings in this statement? The OT was the scripture used when we look at the NT. Is the OT the final decision making when looking at questionable points in the NT? 2Tim 3:16 and Heb 1:1-2 talks about the writers had their main authority from the Holy Spirit and the OT. I think that we lack the Holy Spirit greatly in out understanding of the Bible.
In the book Understanding Scripture. An Adventist Approach. I had really think about the chapter title “Guidelines for the Interpretation of Scripture”
The Historical-Biblical Method or also called the biblical-grammatical approach to scripture is one of the many methods that I strongly believe have a great significant in the understanding of the scripture. When one asks, why was this statement made? Or What do they do this? It rests heavenly on the understanding of the historical content of the people living then with its culture and tradition. We see that in Gen 1:26 the need to let the Israelites know that not only the kings and royalties are made in the image of god in Egypt but the Israelites being under slave, needed to be reminded that there is a GOD who has made them in His Image and likeness and He has delivered them from slavery. Also, we see in the story of faith by works and works by faith with Paul and James. That historical background helps clear the confusion people have.
(pg 113) Interpreting a Biblical Text. When I look at the 10 steps mentioned, I wonder if these steps will help one to get to a good and safe interpretation. Step 1: Turning to God in prayer is no question important. But we have experience one praying before presenting and used the other steps with still an interpretation which needed lots of work. So, these steps may be helpful but the truth of the matter is why are you studying the test. Do we go to the bible for help or are we the one helping the scripture in its meaning. Humility is to me the core of one arriving to a better interpretation and understanding of the word. We must remember that Peter prayed and did many miracles and still was not save or converted. We must remember that our works no matter how good it may be still need corrections. I still stand with the point that all the bitter disagreements is of the lack of growth and maturity and mostly the need to have a more intimate relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. The absence of submission in individual.
I agree with Pablo Ariza Comments on Joel Bohannon’s Response to Chapter 8 of Understanding Scripture. Has much as I have been a Christian the NT testament seems to be lifted up above the OT. And we know very well the NT stories and teaching but barely that of the OT. I think that one does not go pass the layer of the teaching in the NT if lacks the authority and teaching of the OT. I am an OT fan see CHRIST very present and very beautiful in the OT.
Ryan Kilgore
Comment on Andrew Pileggi’s comment on Ganoune Diop’s chapter on innertextual interpretation.
Andrew, I too appreciated Dr. Diop’s chapter on the inter-connectedness of the Scriptures. You note that “almost everything/everyone in the Old Testament point forward to Christ in some way.” What I wondered while reading the same chapter was how we know what points forward to Christ and in what way. Are only NT authors able to interpret the connections? Or is this the responsibility of all Bible students? Or is this even the right question to ask? In any case, I have found that a deeper understanding of the OT sheds light on the true meaning of the NT in a general sense. The deeper I study the NT, the more I want to study the OT as well! Perhaps this is good enough for now!
Andrew Pileggi I loved your comment on the relevance of the book the Cosmos as intimated by Dr. Hanna. I too was oblivious to the importance of this revelation.I was aware that God created nature but that was it. Tied in closely with this insight is the the statement that while all nature expresses the law of God the human system is written with his finger. When we exclude every revelation but that of the Bible we often downplay nature, health laws and experience.You were right God used many analogies from nature and He kept it simple. In our theological exuberance we can substitute with what the author calls high sounding nonsense and miss Christ all together. Biology has taken on a new meaning for me since the reading of this little book The Cosmic Christ of Scripture.
Comments on Assignments for Revelation, Inspiration and Hermeneutics
I agree with Mark Daniels when he says that Satan and his fallen angels are bent on our misinterpretation of the Word that will cause others to be led astray and fall away from the Lord. Therefore when we approach the scriptures, we should do so with a teachable spirit and ask the Lord to fill us with the Holy Spirit who will be our guide as we venture into the study of the Holy Scriptures.
Comments on Assignments for Revelation, Inspiration and Hermeneutics
I agree with Kenita Spencer when she says “Jesus was clothed in humanity and divinity. He was completely human and perfectly divine. We are completely human. What God makes is perfect and so at one point our human nature was perfect. Adam and Eve forfeited relying on God’s divine nature and human nature became fallen. Thus, we sin. However, “partaking of the divine nature is the secret to our victory [over sin] Jesus was born in the same flesh and nature we have So that He could be understanding of our weaknesses and inclinations toward sin, and be a merciful High Priest for us.
the thesis of the cosmic Christ of scripture is "scripture provides principles that should guide the reading of Christ, scripture and cosmos in relation to each other. this will result in the removing of the veil that causes misunderstanding of gods revelation. Hanna concludes with these key facts: one. the bible alone has its unique authority over christian faith, practice and knowledge. two. all of scripture must be taken into consideration when seeking the right interpretation of scripture, Christ and the cosmos. three. scripture has an epistemological primacy. scripture is a primary, final, and ultimate authority for christian.
i would like to comment on john's comment. it is true that modern day theology is never concrete. never coming to a definite conclusion. i wonder sometimes if we are not beating around a well worn track beside a well known bush that's no longer on fire because our god is definite and definitely not amused at all the misconceptions and misunderstandings in regard to his own revelation that he himself clarifies through his own life death and resurrection.
This in response to Kenita’s initial response about her struggles with Ellen White. I grew up in a Caribbean household in a North American culture. I didn’t want to do what I was told without understanding it for myself. I saw many from the ‘old school’ who used their little burgundy books (EG White’s writings) in place of the Scriptures. Many quoted her liberally as if she was Christ Himself. I made me uncomfortable. I didn’t want to be identified with a religious group who revered a woman over the Scriptures. It was as I matured spiritually, that I found myself reluctantly returning to my roots so to speak. Now, I find great comfort in her words. I have since resolved my negative feelings when I saw that she pointed you back to Scriptures!! I do see her as a messenger of God.
In response to Ben, I agree, it is very important to be sure to take sola scriptura and to be sensitive to those from different cultures.
This in response to Michelle's blog on presuppositions, and cultural influences on our understanding of scripture. I can appreciate how she point out that when we approach scripture, we must be willing to acknowledge our presuppositions. Ellen White suggests that when we come to the Bible, we should approach it it with a humble, teachable spirit, seeking the Holy Spirit's help in understanding what we encounter. If we are so proud that we are unable to truly open our minds to the idea that we have an opportunity to learn from the Holy Spirit, then our growth and understanding of the Bible will always be hindered.
I would like to say that I am of the same mindset as Joel, I often wonder myself if modern theology has become to methodical and to intellectual that we have missed the enire point of Christ. IN theology today sometimes it seems like we are trying analyze God under a microscope and completely understand God when I do not believe that this is all possible short of glory. That does not mean we stop researching and stop studying, but that we simply realize our limits and bring all of our studying and all of our intellectual ideas and "thoughts captive to the obedience of Christ".
I want to cosign with what Donald has said. Our Presuppositions must be acknowledged in interpretation. He is right when He says that we must invite the Holy Spirit to guide us, I beleive this is the first step in Exegesis. Ellen White even goes so far as to say that If we do not do this; that in the very study of scripture skepticism will strengthen.
I am in total agreement with Marlene when she says that it is mind boggling to even understand that God prepared a plan of salvation for us before we sinned. In thinking about this we realize how important it is to forgive and as Christ planned to forgive before we wronged him we should likewise prepare to forgive others before they wrong us.
In response to Debbie who commented on chapter 6 of understanding scripture we must realize that we like to believe what agrees with us. Truth is never popular and as such we can never expect it to be widely accepted in this world of sin. We are the remnant church anf we must have confidence in that fact. I have spent pratically all my life as a Seventh Day Adventist and if I were to follow the people in the religion I would have left this denomination long ago. We must remember to not focus on men and women who interpret scripture but to the God who made them. We all think that we know something but we have assurety that God knows everything.
Jaehyun Kwon said…
The book of The Cosmic Christ of Scripture
I think chapter 3 is more interesting that chapter 1,2. Of course, I could understand the Scripture principle. I also read that scripture provides the principles that should guide the Christ-centered reading of God’s three books in relation t each other. The meaning of the three scripture like this; Tota scripture is all of scripture, Sola scripture is scripture alone, Pirma scripture is scripture first. And Dr. Hanna explained more about above theme. Scripture alone has its unique primacy as the written word which points to the living word-Jesus-as Source of life (Jn 5:39-40) within the cosmic context. We can confirm in John 1:3-4; “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.” He is “the life” (Jn 1:4), and” Light of the world” (Jn 8:12). Scripture also supports the sols and prima christus principles. Christ alone has His unique primacy because he created all things and in Him all things consist (Col 1:16-17). Christ is supreme as the unique and primary Son of God who brings many sons to glory. So, I thank Jesus Christ for given us to be done another son of God.
Jaehyun Kwon said…
The book of The Cosmic Christ of Scripture, chapter 4-6
I believe Jesus Christ is the center of the bible. He is the core of salvation in the earth. So the Cross of the Calvary is the most appearance of Jesus Christ’s love toward human. Because of Jesus said “Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life” (Jn 5:38-40). He is the God, and the man. As the bible said “the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us” (Jn 1:14), He became the man, but He also is God. I think it is not only the mystery, but also the work of God. It is the shown revelation of God. The nature of divinity as Father (Ps 89:26) and as Spirit (Jn 4:24) is unveiled in the divinity of Jesus who is the uniquely begotten Son of God (Jn 3:16). The Father and the Son are clearly presented as two persons. Jesus described the Spirit as a person by describing Him with the personal pronoun (Jn 14:25-26; 16:12-15). In addition the divine unity of the Father, Son, and Spirit is evident in the same divine titles are applied to each person. Actually, no matter how I think it, it is the mystery and the grace of God. Even though I can’t understand it, I am impressed by the truth whenever I meditate it.
Jaehyun Kwon said…
“Are Ellen White’s Writing Revelation to the Cosmos?” By The Cosmic Christ of Scripture, Chapter 10.
Elle G. White said “The whole natural world is designed to be an interpreter of the things of God”. This revelation includes human nature. And she said “all nature expresses the law of God, but in our physical structure Jehovah has written His law with His own finger upon every nerve, every muscle, every fiber of our being, upon every faculty which has been entrusted to man.”
According to EGW, there are divine and human dimensions to God’s revelations in the cosmos, scripture, and Christ. It is impossible to gain a perfect knowledge of God from the cosmos because sin has obscured God’s revelation. But in the spite of the distortion caused by sin, the cosmos is an open book which reveals god who works in the cosmos. Sometimes I am impressed when I see the nature of creature of my God. So I thank God for given us beautiful nature. And she also writes that the divine human communion, which is provided in the cosmos and Scripture, points to the divine-human union “in the nature of Christ, who was the Son of God and the Son of man.”
The explanation of Dr. Hanna is pertinent about between the bible and nature; the bible is greater lighter and the nature is lesser light for us.
John's comment is so interesting for me.
Ellen G.White's writings is lesser light to illuminate the bible.
but it is the message of God too.
of course, the difference of authority is surely existed, but I believe her writing lead people into the bible and innuminiate many believers into the greater light, the bible.
comment about Jossie lopez's comments
I firmly agree hiw comment; "God’s divine word (scripture) never changes."
nowadays many churches have been experiencing strugling problems called the conlclict of postmodernism and modernism.
some of believers try to estimate the bible according to their aspect.
but I think they must recognize the nature of God which never be changed jast as His love toward human.
On the middle of Chapeter 5; Revelation and Inspiration of "understanding Scripture an Adventist Approach"
I read interesting passage of the book. The author wrote like this; “God revealed Himself in many ways by condescending to human patterns of thought and writing. The entire Bible is revealed. The words of the prophets have become the words of God.”
Of course, I know and understand well this passage. But the problem is to do application. Through biblical history, some of people in the bible would have heard the words of prophets.
God directly used to show Himself or His will to some men, but He mostly showed Himself or His will through the message of the messenger. So it was very important to discern who real prophet was. I think the revelation is important, but the ability of discern is also important. So we need the daily inspiration for our spiritual life. I have been learning RIH in my class, but actually the latter would be more important in daily life. Because bible said “In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace” (Ep 1:17). And I think the revelation is also to see God through the window of heart.
Innerbiblical Interpretation: Reading the Scripture Intetextually, chapter 7 of Understanding Scripture
I agree the insistence of the author that is Jesus the center of innerbiblical interpretation.
Actually I find that Jesus quoted so many verses form Old Testament. How did He interpret the OT? In the setting of Matthew 5:17-18, Jesus declares “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one title shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled”. According to these verses, He came down to fulfill the Bible. But I could find the several meaning by Greek word of this letter. This word get the meaning of “to to expand,” “to complete,” “to accomplish” what is he to accomplish? We know it. His right is different from Pharisees. He saw the true nature of the OT.
When Pharisees speak to the phenomenon of the OT, Jesus Christ told them to the true nature of the bible. He is the core of revelation, inspiration and hermeneutics. Sometimes he used expressions with an unprecedented dignity. Such as “You have heard that the ancients were told, … but I say to you” (Matt 5:21-22). In fact He is not a repeater of the OT, but interpretator.
The Sixth comment “Chapter 17, Ellen G. White and hermeneutics” of Understanding Scripture.
This chapter was very interesting for me. Ellen G. White understood her role to be that special messenger of God to the Seventh Day Adventist Church.
But actually her writing have been criticized in pare of hermeneutics. In my case I also experienced some problem about the Hermeneutic application in my church between church members. The author of this chapter indicated the hermeneutics and application. And he explained the application of EGW’s health message. Here is interesting issue.
SDA members nearly are concerned about this issue; “Vegetarianism, is it a Principle or Policy to Ellen G. White?”
D. M Canright criticized that White couple ate hog meat a in their home in 1859. The time when James White met Canright at the first time, was in 1859. After then, he visited James’s house very often as a visitor. In 1863 after 4 years when he criticized them, Ellen G. White received the message inhibiting meat-eating. Especially in this time she received the message that was meant forbiddance of pig meat. So she could eat pig-meat before.
Of course she did not eat any meat in her later life. But it need so many period for her until cutting off meat by reason of some case. vegetarianism was not the health principle to Ellen G. White. She said that believers could never insist not to eat meat at all times, everywhere. She rejected vegetarianism to make the standard of believer of Adventist church.
But she said “I advise every Sabbathkeeping Canvasser to avoid meat eating, not because this regarded as sin to eat meat, but because it is not healthful.”
So t=I think that when we have a the hermeneutics of EGW, we should the generational status and the background.
comment #4- about calssmate's posting.
I agree to Kenita Spencer's comment.
in addtion, Jesus is the model of righteous man. but we are sinner. so I think that it is impossible to live as Jesus Christ. when we are reborn in teh name of Jesus Christ, we can live as Jesus,. but we are can't become Jesus as ever.
comment#5- about classmate's posting.
I agree to the comment of Bilan. He wrote "The fact that Ellen White admits that she is just a “lesser light” compared to the Bible, adds to her writings a great deal of value."
I know I understand I agree
but nowadays some of extremists insist of equalism between the bible and the EGW's writing.
so her expression is very pertinent that "lesser light" which leads people to "the greater light,bible".
comment #6- about classmate's posting
I like him ,Quigley Morris.
and I read his comment
of course I agree his comment about Dr. Hanna's book.
and I think another point. How can I explain to postmodernism generation about three books of God.
I can explain it generally, but current generation has diverise thinking and aspects.
so, when I go back to my church, how can I make them understand?
I think this problem deeply.
I believe that the bible should be our only authority of faith. However, I also believe that Gods speaks to us in other ways like nature, etc. I agree with Dr. Hanna that all (Tota) Scripture is of divine revelation. This may sound obvious to believe, however, there are thousands of people who do not believe in the bible any more. It is for the first time that I read a more complete and full description of what Sola, Tota and Prima Scriptura is according to Chapter 1, page 19. These three principles are helpful in how to study the bible. I guess what impresses me the most about the bible is that it can stand by itself as a “sola’ revelation. I also agree that it does not contradict Christ, and nature. At the contrary, they support each other and complement for a better understanding on who God is. There are many people who are been blinded because of wrong teachings. If people could apply these three principles, it would be a guarantee that their spiritual discernment can be amplified. Just like the apostle, Peter wrote in 2 Corinthians 3:14-16. If people were faithful to these principles, they did not even need to have a MDiv. but with a sincere heart of trying to know the real Christ of Scripture these principles could be of a great guidance to help them know him better.
This comment is from the book, Understanding Scripture, chapter two, page 16. In this chapter, I read a quote from Ellen G. White about believes. Because this is the topic of my research paper, it is the reason why it got my attention. In this quote, she says that “God never ask us to believe without giving sufficient evidence upon which to base our faith.” If you notice, this comment is in opposition to the idea that God needs to gives a miraculous sign to proof his existence. We tend to believe that God is supposed to convince us according to our won desires. However, God has given enough evidence for us to believe. We just need to discover that evidence. It already exists. I quote from Ellen, “His existence, his character, the truthfulness of His word, are all established by testimony that appeals to our reason; and this testimony is abundant.” To doubt is normal for humans. God knows this. However, he has given enough evidence so doubt can be dissipated through his revelation. I am desperate to see that day when doubt will be no more. This doubt will disappear in its totality when Jesus comes for the Second Time.
Santos Medrano
GSEM 510-2
Post #2 for Understanding Scripture
Chapter 7, Pg. 127
This comment is in reference to the subdivision titled “Interpreting the Text” This subdivision is divided into nine steps. The step that I would be talking about is “Applying the text” I am always amazed to hear scholarly sermons where they do not make application or a call to apply the message into the lives of the people. That makes me think that if the preacher is not able to apply it to himself, much less he is going to ask the congregation to do it. What I learn from this chapter is when it says that” The application is extremely important. If omitted, the audience or reader may get the impression that we are dealing only with history.” Another mistake can be made if we try to apply the verse or text to soon. The risk is that, “the passage may be misinterpreted and the exposition remains shallow.” I would like to admit that I have made the mistake to apply the text early in the sermon. I do agree with the author of this book that people may get confused or it could be irrelevant if they do not completely understand the purpose of the passage. Everything fits better in its own time.
Santos Medrano
GSEM 510-2
Post #3 for Understanding Scripture
Chapter 13, Pg. 227-229
Allegory is something that I had trouble, both, understanding and applying in a sermon. After reading this chapter, it helped me understand a little bit more about allegory. From my understanding, allegory is a story that it does not have to relate to the text or scripture. This is kind of opposite to a parable. I quote from the book, “Allegory uses a story as an extended metaphor to refer to spiritual truths outside the literal meaning of the text.” This is contrary to “typology” which finds “the fount of its meaning in the historical and sees a parallel in a later historical event. “. This is the opposite of allegory, which takes no account of history. However, let us not confuse allegories with metaphors. An example of a metaphor is “You are the light of the world” (Mat. 5:14) An example of allegory is found in 4:21-23 when Paul speaks about the two women. One woman proceeded from Mount Sinai and the other one from above. In this allegory, Paul is saying that Agar belongs to the Mount Sinai covenant and makes a connection with slavery which means to be under the Law. Whereas Sara belongs to the New Jerusalem which is from above. If you notice, this is allegory because we can “never call a Jewish a slave simply because he belongs to a covenant given in Mount Sinai.” Sinai was holy land and God appear to them in that place. Why would they be slaves? What does Agar had to do with this event? Nothing at all. However, she was slave while she lived with Sara. Therefore, Paul is relating her slavery with the slavery of those who are under the law. The true Sinai is the one in heaven. This is the throne of God. Those who belong to this covenant are not slaves but free (saved). This is where the spiritual covenant was made before it was made on earth. As you can see, this idea does not make sense for the Jewish. The story does not fit with their context because Paul was using allegory. I hope this explanation makes sense. Please comment.
Santos Medrano
GSEM 510-2
Post #2 for The Cosmic Christ of Scripture
Part Two
I would like to say that I agree with Dr. Hanna about the concept of the principles of scripture. In this main principle, the first one is Tota Scriptura. It means that people should go to and fro in all scripture to increase knowledge. The book of 2 Timothy 3:16 support this concept. The other principle is Sola Scriptura. This means that the Bible should be our only rule of faith, practice, and knowledge. The third one is Prima Scriptura. This means that the Bible is first (prima) among other revelations including Christ and the Cosmos. I quote from Dr. Hanna’s book the Cosmic Christ of Scripture to support this conclusion, “Scripture is the final, supreme standard or guide for Christian faith, practice, and knowledge. “ (Pg.64) I have to admit that when I first read the Bible, it provided me so much light that through the word my life has been changed. However, I cannot give total credit to the Bible only for God’s miracle in my life. I do believe that God has used other means to affect my life. Therefore, according to my own experience, the bible does not have to be the prima source. What about those who have never read the Bible? Can God communicate to them by other means? Another example is those who existed before Moses. We know that Moses wrote the Pentateuch and these were known as the Law or scriptures; however, before him there was no written scripture especially after Noah and before Moses. The principles of Tota, Sola and Prima may work find in our generation. However, what about those in the past like Noah, etc. who did not had the scriptures? What was first for them?
Santos Medrano
GSEM 510-2
Post #3 for The Cosmic Christ of Scripture
Let us say that I am a non-Adventist. One day I decide to read the book: The cosmic Christ of Scripture.
In this book, I find out that the Bible is the greater light. Nothing wrong with that since the Bible is a written revelation that we have to know God better. Event thought I have not seen Jesus, the bible speaks of him in a way that I can know him better. The Bible has special content that facilitates us to have a relationship with him even thought we have-not see him. However, the problem is when it comes to Ellen G. White. In this book, Ellen G. W. is mention as the “lesser light.” The Cosmos can be a light. “Jesus said, I am the light of the world.” I do agree that the Cosmos, the Bible, and Jesus are lights that reveal the true God. However, how can she be a “light” whether is consider less or little if. From my understanding, she has only contributed to a better understanding of the Bible and not more light. Because of this is the case, then she needs to be added to the Cannon whether she wanted or not. Any suggestions?
Santos posted an assignment regarding the confusing truth about scriptural allegories. I have also wrestled with the idea. I have wondered how it is that we can determine that a story is allegorical when it is not clear within the text. Dr. Stefanovic has some great material on the subject that has helped me to understand. The key is that when Jesus speaks allegorically, He always interprets it so that there will be no confusion from those that will hear it.
I have noticed that many of my classmates have commented on the fact that the concepts contained in Dr. Hanna's book do not resonate with a postmodern generation. In fact, I believe that the upcoming generation of young people look to have their questions answered in deep and meaningful ways. I believe that this study is important for anyone who does not believe that the Bible should be taken as the legitimate Word of God.
Jaehyun said...
#additionl comment after completed two part(6&6) comments
while I read some of comments, I thought "so, which is more big, deep,and wide between university and human's heart?
I know this question is so fool. but on the other hand, I thank that it is possible to cpmpare another aspect.
human's heart may have depth which have no end, width in any case.
even though ambiguous, but I think that it may not be wrong.
Iakopo Fuao commentted on Jessie Lopez's blog on Understanding Scripture - Chapter 1;
'How God can communicate with imperfect people? - I share your appreciation of God's awesomeness in His endeavor to communicate with imperfect people. The bible say that God revealed His purpose to the holy men moved by the Spirit. This holy mem, in the original meaning of the word doe not mean perfect or sinless. But simply means, men who were set apart by God for His holy purpose. But the Bibile also says that the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit...But who has known the mind of the Lord...But he who have the mind of Jesus.(1 Cor.2:14-16). So thanks for pointing that out, because only the imperfect people with renewed minds a and born again lives who are receptive to the things of the Spirit.
Iakopo Fuao comments on Marlon Gtrgory's blog onn Interpretings Scripture - Chapter 1:
I agree with you that this chapter provides some significance historical background of our SDA hermeneutical method of Bible Study and how we do thrology. I also share your concern about maintaining our traditional standing of Bible as authoritative and reliable as a rule of faith and practice. Unfortunately, this primary principle is ignored and underminded when the when our church redifined our position on the ordination of women to the ministty of elders and pastors. The redefinition is not supported by the greater light of the Bible nor the lesser light of the Spirit of Prophecy but simply for the non ordained American gospel workers to enjoy their tax benefits. For details, you can read "Receiving the Word, by Samuel K-Pipim.
Blog comments:
Iakopo Fuao comments on … Jessie Lopez’s comment on Understanding Scripture – Chapter 2
J Lopez says, “How can God communicate with the imperfect people? I am with you in your grateful in God’s awesomeness in His endeavor to communicate with us imperfect people. I remember that the Bible says, ‘God reveals His purpose to the holy men moved by the Spirit.’ The holy men in the original meaning of the word, does not mean the perfect or sinless men, but it means men who are separated or set apart for God’s purpose. The Bible also says that the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God…For who has known the mind of the Lord?...But we have the mind of Christ. (1 Cor.2:14-16). Thanks for pointing this out, because only people with renewed minds and born again hearts can be receptive to the things of the Spirit.
Blog comments:
Iakopo Fuao comments on … Jessie Lopez’s comment on Understanding Scripture – Chapter 2
J Lopez says, “How can God communicate with the imperfect people? I am with you in your grateful in God’s awesomeness in His endeavor to communicate with us imperfect people. I remember that the Bible says, ‘God reveals His purpose to the holy men moved by the Spirit.’ The holy men in the original meaning of the word, does not mean the perfect or sinless men, but it means men who are separated or set apart for God’s purpose. The Bible also says that the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God…For who has known the mind of the Lord?...But we have the mind of Christ. (1 Cor.2:14-16). Thanks for pointing this out, because only people with renewed minds and born again hearts can be receptive to the things of the Spirit.
Marlon Gregory’s comments on Understanding Scripture – Chapter 1:
Fuao said, I agree with you about the significant information in this chapter concerning the historical background of our SDA hermeneutic methods. I also share your concern about maintaining our traditional standing on this principle of the authority and the reliability of the Bible as the rule of our faith and practice. Unfortunately, in the redefinition of our position on the ordination of women to the ministry of elders and pastors, this principle was deliberately ignored in order for the un-ordained gospel workers of America to enjoy their tax benefit. Unfortunately, the grater light of the bible and the lesser light of the Spirit of Prophecy does not support it. For details read “Receiving the Word” by Samuel K-Pipim. – Lord have mercy!!!!!
Iakopo Fuao comments on Kabah’s comment….
Kabah Stephen comments on Dr. Hanna’s book – Chapter 7: K Stephen says something about Jesus coming in the nature of the fallen nature of Adam. I am glad that Hanna did not spent time on that because definitely our scholars are divided on that issue and will remain like that till the coming of Christ. I believe because of our belief in progressive revelations, that is why we find scholars with different views on various issues especially on the natures of Jesus because He is God and we will never fully comprehend who He is. One thing I know for sure is that He was fully God and fully man without sin. And what Ellen G White says in the Desires of Ages that fascinates me every day is that he will retain His humanity for eternity, to me that’s really cool. And thank you for reminding me about the reality of His humanity and His death for me.
Comment on Robert Best's 1st comment in September 2009.
I couldn't agree more with Robert. Human reasoning can only go so far in the search for scriptural understanding. We are unable to comprehend this sacred book unless we willingly submit to the Spirit's testimony of Christ, as our wisdom and knowledge (Colossians 2:3).
Comment on Richard Calhoun's 1st comment in October 2009.
I am happy to hear Richard discuss the Old Testament's testimony of Jesus Christ. This truth confirms that Jesus is the central theme of both testaments. In John 5:39-40, we read, "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life." The Scriptures, spoken of here, were nothing more than the Hebrew Bible. Because Jesus was the only Hope upon which humanity could rely, it was imperative for Him to be exalted in the Old Testament.
NEW Comment on Andrew Pillegi's 1st Comment in November 2009:
Like Andrew, I do believe that everyone can interpret the Bible; but they must approach it with the proper hermeneutic if it must be properly understood. I also hold to the conviction that Bible study takes time and we must give careful attention to the words of the text that we might properly understand what was meant and how it applies to our lives.
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