Response to Paul Muniz "Yea, All Are Saved, Not - Maybe! said..." 6/22/08
It's true that 'universal salvation' has been misinterpreted many times and often been abused my some. I feel that this Universal message needs to be shared because it is very biblical. Although the usage of the word is not used, the implicit meaning is by "the gift of God is through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23). This gift is not limited to a specific group of people but to all those who accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
Response to Josiah Harry said... Assignment # 2 on 6/22/10
I see the problem the Adventist message has when comparing it to the Biblical mandates outlined throughout Scripture, on the surface. But on a closer reading of the text, Adventism is fulfilling a message that has often been ignored. Adventism began with a message founded on the Gospel Commission and Three Angels’ Messages and we should stick to it if we are to continue our calling of existence. The problem I see is not that of culture or even our application of the Adventist message in this world, because culture specifies and beautifies the context the gospel is in. I think the problem lies is our detachment from our mission. In our present time we are having a General Conference Session with many topics that aren’t relevant to the churches mission for the gospel but for maintaining our structure and image for institutional purposes. This I feel has united us with other churches and dulled the message we carried with fire in the past. I think we have a lot more to offer than merely doctrines but a message that needs to be lived in a society that has forgotten it’s role as children of God.
Hi Sevilla in order for salvation to be complete, the third aspect of salvation which is glorification also need to be considered. Thanks for your contribution.
Hi Brother Edgar, Your statement deserves credit and thank you for your satement which says"Our salvation depends on God’s grace from beginning to end, there is nothing anyone can do to merit God’s grace otherwise it will be a payment and not a gift. I do agree with you that salvation means God's grace.
During the contributions given in our class discussion by various students and the comments of Dr. Hanna, I came to discover that the issue of perfection needs some more clarification and attention. In the book of Matthew 5:48 Jesus says: Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. We cannot be perfect apart from others. The Bible links perfection with human relationships. Christ urges us to be as perfect as our Father in heaven and ties the process to how we treat each other. The Kingdom of God is about eternal, peaceful relationships. We cannot withdraw from people and still develop the necessary relationship skills, just as God never leaves us but continues to work with us. Life would be easier for Him if He ignored us, but He works on, helping us develop our relationships with Him. He is the One who works perfection in us. As human beings we are only perfect through his justification which is the righteousness of God, through the progressive process of sanctification which is a gift from God, and finally at the second coming of Jesus when our mortal bodies shall put on immortality in our glorification then our perfection will be complete. It seems that brethren indeed we are in a school where by our graduation will only be complete through our lord and savior Jesus Christ at his second coming, when our maturity will be finally realized. As sinful human beings saved by the blood of Jesus through his grace, we look forward for that great morning of resurrection when Christ will say welcome home brother and sister, inherit the kingdom which was prepared for you before the foundations of the world.
Thank you for reminding us about the importance of Christ's sacrifice on the cross of Calvary and its great influence in the plan of salvation and in the Great Controversy. Even thought God has done everything for us He left one thing up to us. He chose not to force us to accept His gift, but gave us the freedom to make our own choices for against Him.
I really appreciate the way you defined Salvation. I think that this is one of the best equations of Salvation. Everything is about God's grace. We cannot do anything on our own. Even our works, as mentioned in class by Dr. Hanna, are counted good because of God's grace and because He enables us to do those good deeds. I wold like ti just say, Thank you God for your Grace!!!
Reflection No.3 During the contributions given in our class discussion by various students and the comments of Dr. Hanna, I came to discover that the issue of perfection needs some more clarification and attention. In the book of Matthew 5:48 Jesus says: Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. We cannot be perfect apart from others. The Bible links perfection with human relationships. Christ urges us to be as perfect as our Father in heaven and ties the process to how we treat each other. The Kingdom of God is about eternal, peaceful relationships. We cannot withdraw from people and still develop the necessary relationship skills, just as God never leaves us but continues to work with us. Life would be easier for Him if He ignored us, but He works on, helping us develop our relationships with Him. He is the One who works perfection in us. As human beings we are only perfect through his justification which is the righteousness of God, through the progressive process of sanctification which is a gift from God, and finally at the second coming of Jesus when our mortal bodies shall put on immortality in our glorification then our perfection will be complete. It seems that brethren indeed we are in a school where by our graduation will only be complete through our lord and savior Jesus Christ at his second coming, when our maturity will be finally realized. As sinful human beings saved by the blood of Jesus through his grace, we look forward for that great morning of resurrection when Christ will say welcome home brother and sister, inherit the kingdom which was prepared for you before the foundations of the world.
During the contributions given in our class discussion by various students and the comments of Dr. Hanna, I came to discover that the issue of perfection needs some more clarification and attention. In the book of Matthew 5:48 Jesus says: Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. We cannot be perfect apart from others. The Bible links perfection with human relationships. Christ urges us to be as perfect as our Father in heaven and ties the process to how we treat each other. The Kingdom of God is about eternal, peaceful relationships. We cannot withdraw from people and still develop the necessary relationship skills, just as God never leaves us but continues to work with us. Life would be easier for Him if He ignored us, but He works on, helping us develop our relationships with Him. He is the One who works perfection in us. As human beings we are only perfect through his justification which is the righteousness of God, through the progressive process of sanctification which is a gift from God, and finally at the second coming of Jesus when our mortal bodies shall put on immortality in our glorification then our perfection will be complete. It seems that brethren indeed we are in a school where by our graduation will only be complete through our lord and savior Jesus Christ at his second coming, when our maturity will be finally realized. As sinful human beings saved by the blood of Jesus through his grace, we look forward for that great morning of resurrection when Christ will say welcome home brother and sister, inherit the kingdom which was prepared for you before the foundations of the world.
Comment on Jared millers assigns no#3 I totally agree with what Jared said that though he doesn’t totally understand what happened in 1888, but what he is sure is that if there were some merits or favor those earlier Adventist received ,it was by faith through the merits of Jesus Christ only but not their works ,he also said that our present Adventists also need to understand that they need the faith and the grace of God to accomplish their salvation.
I have many questions that have come up in my mind about the weak-faith, strong-faith discussion we had a week ago, and so looked a little more into it in Romans 14. Here we have a case of Paul using an argument that puts two Adventist faith practices to the test (or so it seems) the first is on eating, and the second is on sacred days. I have often heard this passage used as an argument against us. For example, one of my friends and I were discussing this topic and she stated, “Romans 14 is telling us we can eat anything and worship any day so long as we have a strong faith. You guys have it backwards.” This might be the case… but I wonder if there is not something more to what is being said in this passage.
It sounds like there was a heavy debate going on, in which people were eating foods and worshipping on pagan holy days which was causing unrest in the church. People were becoming offended by what others were doing, and those who were eating or worshipping were upset because they felt there was no reason for the others to be offended. Those with stronger faith, who had a better understanding of salvation were in a sense, set free from laws of food and drink because of their faith in Christ. Yet by breaking harmless human regulations they were causing those with newer, younger faith to stumble out of confusion. So Paul isn’t addressing the food issue or worship issue, he is actually addressing the issue of unrest caused by those things. He is encouraging people of that church to look on one another with concern and love for each other. Those who stumble because of weak faith, shouldn’t judge by external appearances of what the others eat or how they worship. Those who eat freely and worship freely, shouldn’t judge those who are offended by what they do. Both camps need to uplift one another by not causing eachother to stumble. Therefore, if eating meat causes a man to stumble, don’t do it in his presence. If you know a person who is vegetarian who would be offended by you eating meat, don’t eat meat while they are there. If you are with a brother or sister who is a strict vegan who could be offended by you eating cheese…Etc… Now for the part I have questions on… does this mean that our eating and worshipping on the Sabbath should not matter? Is it a matter of personal faith, and if we are so concerned about it, does this make it legalism? This I’m not sure about. I believe Sabbath is a holy day, and that keeping it is in accordance with the ten commandments. But I also believe that there will be those who didn’t keep the Sabbath on earth in heaven. This point is on the simple fact that salvation revolves around Jesus and our relationship with him and not on the law itself. I however am not sure about the diet issue. I did not become a vegetarian until I was 13 years old and was looked down upon because of it. Yet my choice of diet was not a matter of salvation for me, it was a matter of health. I wanted to be healthier, and so I chose not to eat meat. The Adventist health message is important. It is amazing witnessing tool and opportunity to have a happier stronger lifestyle. But it is not something we need to condemn people of if they eat porkchops. So when we witness, I see love as coming first! We need to love people before we talk to them about diet, Sabbath, or anything else related to doctrine. We need to share the gospel with them and the good news of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross before we explain what to eat and what not to eat and why. And if we offend someone by what we eat or drink or how we worship in the church, we need to take that into consideration and respect one another as well. So…If anyone has any insights into this passage, I would appreciate feedback. I still have many questions on how to explain it in an understanda
Comment on Dr Hanna’s response on assign no#3 What I appreciated on your work is of elaborating how every aspect Jesus Christ is relevant to our salvation, and secondly driving Avery good example of how symbolic language and literal meanings are integrated ,for instance the symbolic meaning of the blood and the cross of Jesus. I had been wrestling with that problem on how does that blood which was shed on the cross which no body preserved save or cleanse us from all our sins or how can the wooden save us.
“”we know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate to do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it but it is sin living in me…. For I have the desire to do good but I cannot carry it out… for what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do-this I keep on doing… I don’t think there is any human on earth who could not relate to what Paul is describing here. Each of us has the struggle with sin. There is a war that goes on between our sinful nature and the nature of Christ. I know, on a personal level, there are days where I do exactly the opposite of what I know is right, and then I wonder to myself… WHY did I do that?! In this passage there are several laws at work. And I find it interesting that Paul brings these up. The first is the law of God: the law we as followers of Christ naturally delight in: the law that is in our minds. The second law is the law of the flesh and body: the law that states we are born sinners. Since they conflict with each other, we become prisoners of both laws. When we fall to the law of the body, we are condemned by the law of God. No wonder Paul states, “what a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?” and no wonder he responds by stating “thanks be to God-through Jesus Christ our lord!.” So to those of us who have struggled with sin (and that should be everyone) This passage and the one that follows should be filled with joy. The conflict and war within our hearts and minds against sin is a hopeless one when Christ is out of the picture. Yet since we can accept salvation through Christ, we are no longer held by the law of the flesh and we are therefore set free from the condemnation of the law. Concerning the sin struggle, since everyone struggles with a sinful nature, there is one major difference between a person with no hope and one who is filled with hope. As Romans 8 states, “those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the spirit have their minds set on what the spirit desires… the mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the spirit is life and peace…” So when there is temptation, the one controlled by flesh dwells on that temptation and desire. Yet the one who is controlled by the spirit dwells on Jesus and his power to overcome… they can therefore, overcome temptation because of their focus. And even when they do not, they can still focus on Christ and be forgiven.
Brother King I like your question about the gospel should be preached whether with man or another way. For the people who don't have the opportunity to receive the gospel God will provide a way to reach these persons whether with human beings or another way because this gospel has to preach in order to Christ to come. Our grand parent in Eden after their sin received from God the great commission to multiply the earth. Jesus Himself after his resurrection gives to everyone who accepts his salvation the job to preach the gospel. Our mission compare to Adam and Eve one is to spread the good news about Christ's salvation everywhere in the world. Therefore, if we failed to do it God is able to use rocks to do his work.
Brother Sevilla I think you are right about your point on salvation. I had the same problem you had thinking that salvation could be described in only two ways. Now I can say that this course brought new insight for me concerning this topic. And I am looking forward for more knowledge on it in the future. Therefore, I am encouraging you my dear brother to do the same thing because it is a very broad subject that even in heaven we will still continue to study it.
Im reflecting on the class as it has ended this morning. as i read all of the blog entries i see the issue of salvation is still a hot topic. I believe salvation will always hold mysteries about its details and i encourage all whose spirit is not setteled on the fact, to rest in Jesus Christ.
Resting in Jesus not only grows us spiritually but it also grows us intellectually, and some how what our 8% sin depleted brain was incapable of comprehending can now through the agency of the HG we start to understand better and fuller by and by, but just as sanctification is a process and the work of a lifetime so is understanding salvation completely, that does not mean we should stop studying, and cease earnestly searching but at the end of our studies, for a period, we should rest in the fact that Jesus saves, and it should be our Joy and duty to discover what that means in its fullness.
So when those that come to us ,that God has entrusted to our care, we can better explain it, but dont ever get salvation mixed up with an understanding of how Jesus does it, just know He does, He has been doing it since the Garden, with those that has known his name(Jesus)and those that dont know his name. We dont know exactly how Jesus can save a vodoo doctor in Tanzania that has never knew his name but he can and the Bible say he wants too thats why jesus came,to save mankind.
and if that vodoo doctor is saved,that never knew Jesus, it will be because of Jesus Christ, yes we can think of lots of reasons why he wont be saved, yet and still Jesus saves, when we make ourselfs out to be the absolute authority on salvation,and when people come to us about thier salvation, with specifics, and we dont really know the answer and instead of telling them let me get back with you on that one,I dont know, BUT until then, read about Jesus and how he saved XYZ, when according to everyone else it should of been impossible we give them some flemsy, unbiblical crazy answer that were not even sure about ourself.
what happens is in that answer we convey our unsurity to them in our response and instead of strengthening thier faith in Jesus as thier savior, we help satan chip away at the faith God has given them. and it chips away at our faith as well.
YOUR salvation is not based in a working knowledge of salvation but in a faith relationship with the man of salvation: JESUS CHRIST
I still grapple with the make-up of Jesus i cant sit with the statement Jesus laid hold of humanity with one hand and Divinity with another but I do believe He was 100# man and God whatever that means really
good post for me it really focused on the process of perfection, like doc said in class its a process, life long with stages, lets preach it and teach it that way
I noticed an igniter media clip talking about the topic of faith vs. works and thought it made a very good point. it is a 3 minute video. copy and paste the link if you would like to see it.
Reading Assignment #3 Name : Hyo Won Date : Jun 26, 2010 (Rm 12:1) Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship. (Rm 12:2) Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will. One thing touched in my mind is that since offering is not living being, Offering should be a being dead to be a real offering. The sacrifices of the OT ceremonial system were of slain animals. The Christian sacrifice is of the living man. The Christian worshiper presents himself alive with all his energies and powers dedicated to the service of God. Living sacrifice means dedication to God. Every offering was carefully examined, and if any blemish was discovered, the animal was rejected. Likewise Christians are to present their bodies in the best condition possible. All their faculties and powers must be preserved pure and holy, or else their dedication of themselves to God cannot be acceptable to Him. This is no arbitrary requirement. God's purpose for believers is their complete restoration. This necessarily includes the purification and strengthening of their physical as well as their mental and spiritual powers. Therefore, the Christian who by faith submits himself to God's way of saving man will gladly obey this command to regard the health of his body as a matter of the highest importance. To do otherwise is to hinder the divine work of restoration. How are we usually offered without dedication to the altar every single Sabbath? “Transformed by the renewing of your mind”(vs2) is kind of sanctification. It describes the transformation of the believer into the image of Christ. Paul is saying that the Christian should not copy the external and fleeting fashions of this world, but should be thoroughly changed in his inmost nature. Sanctification includes both an outward separation from all the unholy customs of this age and an inward transformation of the believer himself. As the inward man is being transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit, the outward life is being progressively changed. The sanctification of the mind will reveal itself in a holier way of living, as the character of Christ is more and more perfectly reproduced in the believer.
Reading Assignment #3 Name : Hyo Won Date : Jun 26, 2010 (Rm 12:1) Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship. (Rm 12:2) Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will. One thing touched in my mind is that since offering is not living being, Offering should be a being dead to be a real offering. The sacrifices of the OT ceremonial system were of slain animals. The Christian sacrifice is of the living man. The Christian worshiper presents himself alive with all his energies and powers dedicated to the service of God. Living sacrifice means dedication to God. Every offering was carefully examined, and if any blemish was discovered, the animal was rejected. Likewise Christians are to present their bodies in the best condition possible. All their faculties and powers must be preserved pure and holy, or else their dedication of themselves to God cannot be acceptable to Him. This is no arbitrary requirement. God's purpose for believers is their complete restoration. This necessarily includes the purification and strengthening of their physical as well as their mental and spiritual powers. Therefore, the Christian who by faith submits himself to God's way of saving man will gladly obey this command to regard the health of his body as a matter of the highest importance. To do otherwise is to hinder the divine work of restoration. How are we usually offered without dedication to the altar every single Sabbath? “Transformed by the renewing of your mind”(vs2) is kind of sanctification. It describes the transformation of the believer into the image of Christ. Paul is saying that the Christian should not copy the external and fleeting fashions of this world, but should be thoroughly changed in his inmost nature. Sanctification includes both an outward separation from all the unholy customs of this age and an inward transformation of the believer himself. As the inward man is being transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit, the outward life is being progressively changed. The sanctification of the mind will reveal itself in a holier way of living, as the character of Christ is more and more perfectly reproduced in the believer.
In 5th response to Edgar Alquinta’s #3 Salvation = Grace + nothing I appreciate on what Edgar has written for salvation that Grace being only is the salvation. We frequently misunderstand like Grace + something, but for sure salvation is the grace of God with nothing. Unfortunately we never know the grace from the above because that is none other than only coming from Him.
In 5th response to Edgar Alquinta’s #3 Salvation = Grace + nothing I appreciate on what Edgar has written for salvation that Grace being only is the salvation. We frequently misunderstand like Grace + something, but for sure salvation is the grace of God with nothing. Unfortunately we never know the grace from the above because that is none other than only coming from Him.
To Piase’s Reflection #3(6th response) The danger of a striving to be a superman I agree with it. As I had served the Lord, from time to time I wanted to be a superman, my church members wanted me to be as well. How sad it was. I did not know the grace of God as usual. I like this expression ‘SuperMan’ not from myself, but from God Himself
Since I am doing my research paper on this topic, your reflection caught my attention. I had not thought about living sacrifices in both spirit and body, and appreciated you pointing out that we need to pay attention to our physical heatlh as well as our spiritual.
I appreciated the back to basics principal of the class as well. These discussions have shaken my faith to the core, making me ask myself what Salvation is really all about. It has also caused me to re-think the way I preach and teach, especially to non-adventists. The way I see it, no matter what we are teaching, whether that be the Sabbath, mark of the beast or state of the dead, we need to keep Christ as the center of it. Everything we share should be based on that.
I appreciate your thoughts Sevilla. I think Whidden’s holistic view that you mentioned is well stated—as the doctrine of Salvation shouldn’t be isolated from the rest of our doctrines. I also appreciate your transparency about having a perfectionist mentality—I think that is something many of us struggle with.
I appreciate your honest and open reflection Ricardo. I agree with you that sanctification and understanding salvation are both a process and the work of a lifetime. Thank you for pointing us to Jesus—in whom we all need to rest and trust His saving grace.
Reading Assignment #4 Name : Hyo Won Date : Jun 27, 2010 “1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.”(Rom 15:1) The ones who are so strong are not only standing firm themselves but should also help others to stand. “No soul who believes in Christ, though his faith may be weak, and his steps wavering as those of a little child, is to be lightly esteemed. By all that has given us advantage over another, be it education and refinement, nobility of character, Christian training, religious experience, We are in debt to those less favored; and, so far as lies in our power, we are to minister unto them. If we are strong, we are to stay up the hands of the weak. Angels of glory, that do always behold the face of the Father in heaven, joy in ministering to His little ones. Trembling souls, who have many objectionable traits of character, are their special charge. Angels are ever present where they are most needed, with those who have the hardest battle with self to fight, and whose surroundings are the most discouraging. And in this ministry Christ's true followers will co-operate. If one of these little ones shall be overcome, and commit a wrong against you, then it is your work to seek his restoration. Do not wait for him to make the first effort for reconciliation. "How think ye?" said Jesus; "if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish."”(DA, 440)
I think this is the time to move ahead for the weak, even for the ones who seem not to be weak. Until when do we stay as what we are now? This is my challenge through this class.
To Vladimir’s Reflection#4(7th response) The nature of Christ and salvation “Christ human nature was subject to all kind of temptations, but he did resist because of his constant communion with his Father.” This is what I am thinking these days. I am grateful for this.
To Alexis’ Reflection#2(8th response) Thank you for a keen sight written so that I know the relation between law and grace through the illustration in Romans 7. Surely we all are bound by the law, and Jesus died on the cross. It is the completion of the law. Then we are naturally released. Thank you for reminding me.
Enock, it is good that you reiterate the human impulsive response to sin: running away from God. It is ironic that we run away when we should be running to Him. Not only do we run away, we try to fix the problem of sin with fig leaves such as work and perfectionism. But as you rightly said, there is no escape from sin except in Christ. It is only a relationship with Him that will take care of the damage caused by sin.
Respons to Sevilla’s Reflection #2 “Facets of Salvation”
Sevilla, between class lectures and discussion, reading Whidden’s book, reading the articles on line, I believe it is a relief (a refreshing one), learning about all the things that come into play where salvation is concern. It is true that there is a misconception that presents only a narrow view of salvation. Indeed salvation includes the Great Controversy, the nature of man, the life, death, and resurrection of Christ, the atonement and end time events. Like you I am amazed by Whidden’s research compiling E.G. White view on the doctrine of salvation. I really appreciate having this resource in one book, as it makes it easier to see the progression of White’s thought over time.
It's amazing to think of how simple yet so incredibly profound our God is. Salvation is simple and that can lead to black and white responses. But It's so deep and profound that to do so does a disservice to a full understanding of the doctrine of salvation.
In my mind it seems so many want black and white, yes or no, right or wrong answers. Some accept that's not possible so they explain in shades of grey. I agree with both. But I also say that our God and His revealed truths are full color and all the shades.
What I'm saying is that I agree with you that Salvation is many faceted. Yet it's mysteriously simple too.
Romans 7 is a chapter that really speaks home to me. It's something how someone can rage against sin and yet fall back into it. Paul's explanation of the two nature's warring really illuminates that struggle. And I love the last verse that in chap 7 that we a rescued from this body of death through Christ Jesus our Lord and the next verse 8:1
"Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."
I think that oughta be 7:26 not 8:1
Praise be the Jesus, my focus, that He saves me and helps me overcome.
Comments on edger Alquinta assign no #3. I’m impressed to read your post, am in a total agreement of that topic you represented on the types of grace, I personally I have experienced or seen God’s grace in various situation though I didn’t understand what type of grace I was experiencing but at least after victory from that particular circumstance I could say if it were not God’s grace, I could have not made it. In my journey to heaven I’m convinced that if God will not supply me with his grace I will not make it. Thank you very much.
Comment on Dr.Hanna’s post on assign no#3. I want to appreciate your intellectual interpretation of giving one example of applying a symbolic language to the literal one, though your of the cross and the blood might not be found scripturally, by this I mean you can’t get a scripture explaining where the blood of Christ was kept, nor the wooden cross kept, But this is a perfect example. These two symbols are very important for our salvation, it calls for both in intelligence and more study of both the scriptures and the spirit of prophecy plus God given wisdom to interpret some symbolic languages in the bible.
A lot of the Christian world has a problem with obedience. The reason, I suppose, has to do with trying to avoid the pit of legalism. The funny thing, however, is that most Christians don’t have a problem with what is normally commanded: don’t lie, don’t kill, don’t steal, don’t worship other gods, etc. They actually say that these actions are good and that Christians should be doing these things. The problem arises when a person is told to obey. Since legalism is bad, they say, obedience is also necessarily bad. If a church teaches obedience, they are also teaching legalism.
Of course, as a Seventh-day Adventist, I reject this reasoning. The fact that I preach and teach obedience does not automatically mean that I am also teaching legalism. If I teach that a person must obey in order to receive salvation, that’s legalism. If I teach that a person must cooperate with God and do good works to be saved, that’s also legalism. But if I teach that a person lives a sanctified life in obedience to God as a natural response to a living, active, and saving relationship with Jesus Christ, that’s not legalism, that’s the gospel.
The problem, you see, is that most people have the wrong idea about obedience. Most people see obedience as a person working for his own salvation. If that’s the case, then yes, obedience is definitely an appalling concept. But that is not biblical obedience. Obedience is not a duty one needs to perform to earn salvation, or even favor, with God, but an act of worship to God. If this is the case, then obedience is not something to be feared, but embraced.
Paul seems to understand obedience in this way as well: “Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship” (Romans 12:1, NIV). Paul is not being legalistic when he talks about obedience. Instead, he relates it to an act of worship. Our bodies, and what we do with them, should be given to God day by day as a sacrifice to God. This sacrifice, then, becomes an act of worship to glorify God for the grace and salvation he has already given to us freely.
True worship is always a response to what God has done for us. It flows from our relationship with Him. If we don’t have a relationship with God, worship becomes ritualistic and cultic. It has no purpose, no meaning, and no power. But if God, in His infinite love and grace, has decided to forgive me of my sins and transform me through the grace of God, then I have a reason, a desire to worship. I want to praise God for delivering me from my sins and their consequences. I worship, then, because I am saved.
If what Paul is saying is right, and I believe he is, then obedience (presenting our bodies as living sacrifices) is not a means of salvation, but an act of worship in response to the love of God. Obedience, because it is an act of worship, cannot be disconnected from a relationship with God. The two must go hand in hand. We worship as a response to God’s saving grace, not a means to earn that grace. We obey because that’s how we worship God for already saving us, not because it will force God to make the decision to save us.
Obedience, then, is not something to be feared, but embraced. It is a gift God has given us to be able to respond in worship to Him. I want to worship God because he has been so good to me. And if obedience is a way to truly worship God, then I embrace it, I love it, and I do it. Not for me, for God.
I feel the concept of obedience as a bad thing really needs to be adressed clearly when we are teaching Salvation. I like the way you explained how obedience stems from Salvation as a natural occuring process. Therefore it is not negative, unless we take it to the far extreme. the act of worship for God is something we joyfully do in response to His love and forgiveness.
I believe the idea of justification is a foreign concept for Christians who love the idea of perfectionism. Frankly speaking, it is a concept that is hard for me to fathom as well. I believe this might be especially true for people who has been influenced by conservative side. On the flip side, people on the liberal camp may have the false understanding of the idea of perfectionism as well. According to Whidden, the gospel of justification may seem cheap to those who adhere to perfectionism, because the works of obedience is not in the formula of earning salvation. On the flip side, people in the liberal circle does not appreciate the balanced teaching of the gospel either, because it does require submission to Jesus’ lordship. They argue that submission to Jesus is interrelated with faith by works, which goes contrary to the salvation given to us by the amazing love and grace of Jesus Christ. I have always appreciated the balance that Ellen White brings to the biblical doctrine of our church. Although the doctrines are sourced from the scripture, depending on how one interprets scripture, different understandings can come about as a result of it. Especially in regards to justification, Ellen White makes a very clear statement. She says, “Faith will never save you unless it is justified by works.” (2T 159), and “Faith must be sustained by works; the doers of the work are justified before God” (2T 167). She says this statement especially for those who make excuses for their disobedience that people will be save from sin, not in sin. One can have false assurance that once he or she is saved, that person is always saved, which comes from the Calvinistic thought. That thought often leads to trusting in one’s own strength rather than depending fully on Christ. I appreciate the fact that Ellen white always keeps us on track whenever we try to detract from the truth. I was surprised to read the statement, “Christ’s merits make our obedience acceptable”, but I cannot deny that is the truth. The truth is, even the best efforts that we can put together is in fact deficient and defective, and thus, unacceptable to God. It is Christ’s obedience in life and death that makes sinners acceptable. I was also surprised that Ellen White emphasized Christ’s life as well as death in this process, but it makes a clear sense, because if we only believe Christ’s death to be atoning for our sins, we would be tempted to put in our works into the equation to go along with Christ’s death for salvation. Whidden declares that For Ellen White, it is not the works, but it is the attitude that needs to be emphasized. Whidden says, “The attitude was declared to be one that involved a desire to obey God and a distaste for sin in any form”. I am thankful for the voice of the prophet that has shed light on the scripture so that we may understand it more clearly. Having this holistic framework helps me to understand scripture literally, rather than merely looking at it in literalistic term or symbolic term.
Thankyou for talking about the person of salvation and emphasizing a relationship with Jesus. I think this is important. From a pastoral perspective, I see looking at the why and how of salvation as important too. not so much because we should question and debate over how Jesus does it, but in order to share the gospel in an understandable way to anyone (of any background, culture or belief) we come in contact with.
Response #3 Predestination and Election (Rom 8:29-30) The class presentations, discussion, and Dr. Hanna’s analysis of Romans have indeed enriched and helped me to understand predestination and election in a new and wholistic way. The impression I seemingly picked is that maybe for a long time in the history of the church, individuals and religion systems have interpreted and taught Paul’s writings too literalistically leaving out the symbolic elements, especially on predestination and election, a fact that almost eliminates room for the exercise of personal choice (will). Historically, the problem seems not to lie in the words, but rather in their doctrinal, hermeneutical, and theological interpretations. In order to strike a balance in approaching these subjects it is necessary to put our theological, hermeneutical, and theological interpretations in subjection to ‘thus saith the bible”. Truly, I discovered that God does not stop an event from taking place simply because He knows it in advance. This is perhaps what makes Him remain to be God. He liberally extends the privilege of exercising the freedom of choice to humanity, an element upon which his government is operates. Ideally, the BRI documents speaking on these subjects noted, “The Biblical God, being the kind of God who knows the end from the beginning (Isa 46:9), decided to create the world, knowing that there will be a fall . . . Because of His foreknowledge, He decided upon ( predestined) a plan, an activity through which the fall would be remedied. This plan, although hatched before creation, to be carried in human history, was not implemented until a certain time was fulfilled (Gal 4:4).The plan envisaged redemption and restoration only in Christ: his life, death, and resurrection, through the enabling and sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. Since God’s foreknowledge of the future events does not mean he predetermined every future event, all are genuinely free to respond to his plan positively or negatively. No destiny of individuals is fixed from eternity on the basis of God’s decision 9predestination) . Hence … predestination is the context within which God has made salvation graciously possible based on individual choice”. On the idea of election, it remains God’s prerogative and sovereignty which are unquestionably beyond human comprehension. Israel (Jacob’s) election was literally birthright according to flesh. This did not exclude Esau from the tribe and the blessings of God. The election was for a specific mission that Israel as a nation failed to accomplish. In most practical terms, election did not and does not give anyone spiritual advantage in the face of God. Paul was ideally struggling to bring his brethren ‘according to the flesh’ to terms that unless they accepted God at a personal level, their election as descendants of Abraham according to flesh could avail no salvation. A misunderstanding of this element tends to lead either individuals or groups of people into pride along religious systems. In summary, Paul used the terms predestination and election in Romans to emphasize the fact that salvation is purely an activity of God in which man’s input is totally absent. Man becomes a recipient of salvation benefits virtually by responding to the free offer of grace.
Response #3 Predestination and Election (Rom 8:29-30) The class presentations, discussion, and Dr. Hanna’s analysis of Romans have indeed enriched and helped me to understand predestination and election in a new and wholistic way. The impression I seemingly picked is that maybe for a long time in the history of the church, individuals and religion systems have interpreted and taught Paul’s writings too literalistically leaving out the symbolic elements, especially on predestination and election, a fact that almost eliminates room for the exercise of personal choice (will). Historically, the problem seems not to lie in the words, but rather in their doctrinal, hermeneutical, and theological interpretations. In order to strike a balance in approaching these subjects it is necessary to put our theological, hermeneutical, and theological interpretations in subjection to ‘thus saith the bible”. Truly, I discovered that God does not stop an event from taking place simply because He knows it in advance. This is perhaps what makes Him remain to be God. He liberally extends the privilege of exercising the freedom of choice to humanity, an element upon which his government is operates. Ideally, the BRI documents speaking on these subjects noted, “The Biblical God, being the kind of God who knows the end from the beginning (Isa 46:9), decided to create the world, knowing that there will be a fall . . . Because of His foreknowledge, He decided upon ( predestined) a plan, an activity through which the fall would be remedied. This plan, although hatched before creation, to be carried in human history, was not implemented until a certain time was fulfilled (Gal 4:4).The plan envisaged redemption and restoration only in Christ: his life, death, and resurrection, through the enabling and sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. Since God’s foreknowledge of the future events does not mean he predetermined every future event, all are genuinely free to respond to his plan positively or negatively. No destiny of individuals is fixed from eternity on the basis of God’s decision 9predestination) . Hence … predestination is the context within which God has made salvation graciously possible based on individual choice”. On the idea of election, it remains God’s prerogative and sovereignty which are unquestionably beyond human comprehension. Israel (Jacob’s) election was literally birthright according to flesh. This did not exclude Esau from the tribe and the blessings of God. The election was for a specific mission that Israel as a nation failed to accomplish. In most practical terms, election did not and does not give anyone spiritual advantage in the face of God. Paul was ideally struggling to bring his brethren ‘according to the flesh’ to terms that unless they accepted God at a personal level, their election as descendants of Abraham according to flesh could avail no salvation. A misunderstanding of this element tends to lead either individuals or groups of people into pride along religious systems. In summary, Paul used the terms predestination and election in Romans to emphasize the fact that salvation is purely an activity of God in which man’s input is totally absent. Man becomes a recipient of salvation benefits virtually by responding to the free offer of grace.
Jonathan Martin I agree with you brother Martin that once we have a personal relationship with God, obedience becomes a very natural activity. The obedience is our appreciation to all that He has accomplished on our through the death of Christ on the cross. That is why Paul records in one of his letters that "The love of God consentraineth us"
Stephene Lee Thanks brother for finding the balance between grace and works a subject that seems to devide the church.As much as works are looked at as a conservative ideology, they are the avenues by which we appreciate how much Christ has done to our lives.
It is hard to imagine how quickly time goes by when one is engaged in life’s events in a meaningful way. Three weeks is really a short time to look at a subject that only eternity is capable of revealing. Eternity in this sense does not signify intellectual complexity, but the ability of grasping the vast extent of all that is involved in a life-saving process. The lectures, the questions, the discussions, the blogs, were minute attempts to explain the dynamics of the doctrine of salvation. Salvation is the theme of the Bible, and many books and articles have been written on salvation in an effort to explain the process. The Adventist Biblical Research Institute, in an attempt to comprehend, and to share their understanding of what is entailed in the process of salvation have presented several documents on the subject. One particular article entitled “The Dynamics of Salvation” compiled through ongoing study of the subject over the years, describes the story of salvation as “inexhaustible”, encompassing the mystery of evil, and the mystery of Divine love. The article highlights the fallen condition of humanity, God’s intervention to reverse this condition, human acceptance of Divine love through faith, and the new life that results from accepting the Divine love.
To think that salvation encompasses the mystery of evil is just one aspect of the subject that can take an eternity to fathom. The relief that salvation also encompasses the mystery of Divine love for fallen humanity is another aspect only eternity can reveal. And yet eternity in itself is a factor in the dynamics of salvation. To be more precise, eternity is the end result of salvation. But if one should take into consideration the definition of eternity which means “infinite or endless”, it may seem like an oxymoron to say eternity is the end result of salvation. Probably a less complicated way to look at it is to simple accept and embrace the fact that salvation is eternal life. The essence of the mystery of Divine love is echoed in John 3:16 and John 17:3: For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Begotten Son, that whosever believes in Him, should not perish but have eternal live.” “Now this is eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.”
But in contemplating the matter of salvation and eternity one must pay attention to the sequences leading to eternity. Going back to the class discussion on how it is important to understand the literal and symbolic context of scripture it is necessary to see eternity in light of the future, but also the present. The decisions and choices one makes now (today) impact one’s eternal salvation. The harsh reality is that though salvation is a free gift made available to every human being, not everyone will accept this gift. Whether one accepts, or rejects the offer of salvation, there are futuristic implications that are on opposite side of the scale. And one cannot ignore the reality that even the daily, momentarily choices individuals make impact the process also, hence Peter’ admonition: “Seeing then…all these things…what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God.”
Well said Alexis. I agree with you that there is always a constant struggle between the flesh and the spirit. I like your closing emphasis on Romans 8 which provides the solution. Indeed, if we choose to live according to the sinful nature (the flesh) then we will be bent on satisfying the sinful desires. Yet it is reassuring to know that we can choose to be controlled by the spirit and overcome the flesh through the power that is available to us in Christ Jesus.
Reflection #3: Justification after a Class with Dr. Hanna
Historians today are redefining the division of eras by subtly replacing B.C. with B.C.E., and A.D. with C.E. This move made me think about how to redefine the eras of my life. For example, when tracing my understanding of justification throughout my lifetime, two periods will be definable: BH (Before Hanna) and AH (After Hanna). Okay, so things won’t be THAT drastic, but my readings from Dr. Whidden’s book has reminded me that there are defining points which will no doubt affect people for the rest of their lives. According to Paul in Romans 9-12, the Israelites have a similar point in their history when they officially rejected Jesus the Messiah. This paper will deal with these two defining moments (with support from BRI readings).
Paul’s writings in Romans 9-11 teach a sad truth: the so-called Jews of his day were not true children of Abraham (9:6-9). There are some election/calling/predestination passages that were difficult BH, but now I see that they fit into both God’s plan of salvation for all people (from Romans 8:28-30), and also that part of their calling was to be a “visible remnant” (9:4 [called for service to God, among other things], 30-32 [their own failures to understand God’s character became a stumbling block for others]). Many even resisted in their place in the “invisible remnant” (9:27) when they rejected Jesus Christ (10:14-21). Paul builds his case nearly exclusively on Old Testament passages in order to show that even their own writings condemn their efforts. HOWEVER, Paul does not leave them without opportunity for redemption – that’s where chapter 11 (all of it) offers the Jews the same grace of God that the Gentiles received. He strips the Jews down to nothing, and then offers them a robe that they don’t deserve. Their condemnation of Christ provided their unworthiness, yet ended up fitting into God’s plans perfectly. There was still hope to become true children of Abraham, but that hope lay in setting aside all and following Christ.
Adventism was headed down a similar path in the 1880’s: claiming to be Children of God, yet rejecting the message which He gave them for a message that they connected with more. In Dr. Whidden’s chapters relating to 1888 and justification by faith, we learn of all of the nuances of Ellen White’s writings as it relates to that history-defining event in Adventist history. One of the key phrases that pops up over and over again is “saved from sin, not in it.” I love that. We’re both saved from the quagmire we find ourselves in AND rinsed clean (with a reminder to not go back!). I love how Hanna-esque Dr. Whidden sounds when pointing out on p.69 that Ellen White taught both a faith that was so simple that it bordered on “cheap grace” and also a faith that was so intense that it bordered on perfectionism. Ellen White had a wholistic view of salvation, and Dr. Whidden didn’t cherry-pick statements from one tree or the other to support his agenda. (I hate when people do that with her writings!) (While I’m writing in parenthesis, let me point out how glad I was to see that I’m not the only person that thinks that the “1888 Message Study Committee” is totally off-base…page 89 was quite re-affirming to me!)
One other point relating to 1888 needs to be mentioned; Ellen White had it right from the beginning, even when other church leaders (likely including her husband!) scrambled to understand this radical new truth. 1888 only revealed to her that she needed to focus on that truth then more than anything else. Her doctrines didn’t change (some became more thorough, yes), but the frequency with which she wrote about some points did. I’m glad that Ellen White saw a balance in her teaching and adjusted as the needs of her peers changed. When they needed law, she preached law. When they needed grace, she preached grace. Am I that flexible and well-balanced as she is, or am I unintentionally ignoring the wholistic message that I’ve been called to preach in my AH era?
Reflection #2 I was researching for my paper and I came across Romans 2.1-3: You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment That made me think a lot about our condition and the similarities between the Jews to whom Paul is writing here and us the seventh-day adventists. I feel that we have a lot in common and therefore this warning from Paul is also valid to us. The Jews felt superior because they thought of themselves as the chosen people of God, and that kindda gave them a silly assurance that somehow they had salvation kindda taken care of, well, at least the initiation of salvation, the ‘entering into’ salvation part. And then they were so proud and boastful of the Torah that they had to make retribution to God by obeying, and that way they’d attain salvation. But Paul attacks both reasons of boasting of the Jews and tells them that they’re blaspheming God’s name by not obeying the Law (but then again how can one obey the law perfectly?), and by not being circumcised in the heart. I see in our Adventist reality the same boastful attitude. I know it has been like that for a long time, and I am not the only one to have noticed it or commented on it. What bothers me a lot is the fact that even with this ‘1888 Message’ people within our church, we haven’t really grasped the meaning of what justification by faith and righteousness through the blood of Jesus means. What I see time and time again is newer and somehow sophisticated ways of legalism, which are just wrapped up with ‘righteousness by faith’ gift-wrap. But underneath it all it’s the same ole legalism. Church-People still want to run their agendas by you and awe if you don’t agree! The following words of Paul just are too heavy, I think: 21you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”
In Response to Thomas Oyaro Ong'ou's Reflection #3 I really appreciated your comments. I really could not agree more. Jesus in Matthew 5 promises that will make us perfect and although the term there means complete, the meaning that you give to it makes it even broader and gets to the point. It is by our relationships with others, how we treat them, how we love them, forgive them, accept them, etc that we are made perfect (or our perfection is complete, for that matter) Thank you Thomas
Response to Sevilla's 3rd Comment: I like your reaction to our discussion in class. Santification is a process of ups and downs aiming that the ups and downs are to be 'upper' that the ones left behind.
Reflection #3 The focus of these next few lines will be directed to the following question. Is salvation a theistic concept? Before, I venture to treat this question it is necessary for me to first establish the context. I would contend that if a person has not attempted to answer the philosophical questions, that person probably does not really understand his or her worldview, which means he or she does not really understand his or her religion; consequently, that individual cannot make his or her beliefs relevant to his or her practice. In other words, my response to this question comes out of my story, a story which includes a system of beliefs, whether or not I have taken the time to explore those beliefs. This question may tempt one to posit a very narrow and simplistic response; however, thoughtful consideration should be made in light of one’s worldview, assuming that there is such awareness. According to the article titled The Dynamics of Salvation the story of salvation possesses certain elements. First, it exposes the mystery of evil and opens the mystery of the cross through which divine love conquers evil. Second, it tells the desperate condition of the human family and God's plan and power to restore us into His image. Third, it is the incredibly good news that God has done for us and does in us what we could never do for ourselves and which we do not deserve. According to the worldview of philosophical naturalism, I am a human being who has arrived on the scene as a consequence of the laws of nature, existing in an uncreated universe, a place where matter (or energy) has always existed. This worldview further states that there is nothing in me that has an origin, source or identity outside the matter and energy of the eternal, uncreated, material universe. Additionally, there is no transcendent power outside of the system—no primal Reality, Force, Energy, Being, Principle, or God. Eastern pantheistic worldview is anchored on the premise of monism, which is the idea that the only reality of the universe is impersonal. This idea suggests that God is not a transcendent entity in the immaterial universe that interacts with his creation; instead, God is everything, and everything is God. The material world does not exist as a creative act of God, but is itself God. Each person is God for the reason that the soul of every human being is the soul of the cosmos. This idea is called Atman is Brahman. Atman is the essence of the human soul. Brahman is the essence of the entire universe. Is salvation a theistic construct?
Response to Leno’s Reflection #2 I think it is necessary for us, as Adventists, to revisit our position as it relates to salvation. You built a reasoned argument in stating that many SDAs feel as if they have the monopoly on salvation. I also found interesting your suggestion that the church has not caught the essence of righteousness by faith, and still continues to practice newer ways of legalism. Is there an antidote to the madness?
Response to Jasmine’s Reflection #4 You hit the nail on the head when you suggested that only eternity is capable of revealing the essence and dynamics of salvation. Throughout your development on the subject matter you provided critical and competent analysis, and for that you ought to be commended. Questions came about when you said that “salvation is eternal life”? Is it possible that eternal life is more than just salvation? Is salvation only eternal life and nothing more?
Response to Jared Miller reflection #3 I appreciate your reflection especially by underscoring the importance of the balanced view between legalism and presumption – faith that lacks works of love. As we discussed it in class over and over, this is where the Advent church needs to put more emphasis since we often tend to be legalistic in our living and/or preaching. We need to teach the importance of obedience without making it our savior, and the danger of having presumptuous faith.
Response to Jared Miller reflection #3 I appreciate your reflection especially by underscoring the importance of the balanced view between legalism and presumption – faith that lacks works of love. As we discussed it in class over and over, this is where the Advent church needs to put more emphasis since we often tend to be legalistic in our living and/or preaching. We need to teach the importance of obedience without making it our savior, and the danger of having presumptuous faith.
Response to Jared Miller reflection #3 I appreciate your reflection especially by underscoring the importance of the balanced view between legalism and presumption – faith that lacks works of love. As we discussed it in class over and over, this is where the Advent church needs to put more emphasis since we often tend to be legalistic in our living and/or preaching. We need to teach the importance of obedience without making it our savior, and the danger of having presumptuous faith.
Response to Sevila’s reflection #2 I found a good reminder from your response on the aspect that we need to always search our hearts lest we slide into legalism even without knowing it. As you say, on can easily think that he has done away with legalism in his life only to find it still alive in the way of thinking. This is where its vitally important to keep watch lest we who think we are standing we fall into disbelieve.
Reflection #4 The past four weeks have not only been insightful, but very enlightening. The doctrine of salvation, though seemingly simple, is actually quite complex and utterly profound. There are many aspects and elements to salvation that need to be considered if a person is to grasp its true significance. These different facets need to be recognized and systematized if the doctrine of salvation is going to be truly understood. Missing, or ignoring, any part of what the bible teaches on Salvation is to miss the mark. This class has truly taught me to look at salvation in a more holistic fashion.
One thing that this class has taught me is the importance of getting back to the basics. As I said before, salvation may seem pretty straightforward and simple, but in reality its profundity is so overwhelming that we must constantly return to this subject to get an even clearer picture of what scripture is really trying to say. The moment we think we understand it, is the moment we need to go back to scriptures and study it again. God has so much to teach us on this subject, that we will have an eternity to contemplate its principles. We might as well start now.
Secondly, this class has taught me to think holistically about the scriptures. When it comes to studying the scriptures, we take what we like and ignore what we don’t like. We accept what we understand, and reject what we don’t understand. We avoid the unclear passages, while uplifting the clear ones. Unfortunately, this practice has led the way for people to reach extreme conclusions. In order to avoid going to one extreme or the other, we must take the scriptures in their entirety. We cannot ignore, avoid, or reject parts of scripture. We cannot create for ourselves a canon within a canon.
Thirdly, this class has taught me to not be afraid of the word perfection. The Bible clearly teaches a type of perfection, but we must understand what kind of perfection it is actually teaching. Instead of avoiding the word perfection, or the scripture passages that talk about perfection, I should endeavor to study what true Biblical perfection is. Having discovered it, I must make it my task to preach what true Biblical perfection is, and how it is evidenced in our day-to-day lives. I must not be ashamed of being perfect in Christ.
Finally, this class has taught me to think theologically while keeping it practical. What good is a thorough and exhaustive understanding of the doctrine of salvation if I don’t understand how it’s supposed to function in my life? The purpose of understanding what salvation is all about is so that it can change my life and transform my being. Knowledge, without praxis, is useless. It has no power. But a knowledge that is put into practice is not only powerful, but a true representation of what the Gospel is all about.
These four lessons have made the past four weeks very enjoyable. I understand the doctrine of salvation a little bit better. I am able to study the scriptures a little bit better. I can live my Christianity a little bit better. The class on salvation may have come to an end, but my desire to understand it more has not. I must continue to understand it, and I must continue to practice it in my life. This is what education is all about.
While I was researching for my paper on the topic “once saved always saved” I came across this text, which seems to pose a problem. Hebrews 6:4-6 says that "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift… if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subject Him to public disgrace." The question here is not whether one can lose its salvation or not, but rather that once a person fell away the text says that it is impossible to come back. This statement has troubled me. I know based on many other texts of the Bible that God accepts us back, only if we choose to do so. Jesus Himself made it clear many times that our heavenly Father wants to take us back if we do stray. One of many examples is the story of the Prodigal Son. Then, how do we interpret this passage?
I’ve read one comment that made sense to me so I want to share it in this reflection. This passage goes beyond the issue of salvation. A lot of New Testament passages deal with the issue that once they have become saved, different people have different levels of success in their walk with God. Apostle Paul writes quite extensively on this topic. This is the sanctification process. In simple words Paul says, "OK, now that you've begun this journey, here's how to live it." The whole thought process is how to grow as a Christian. Never is there any thought given to the idea of becoming a non-Christian. The key for interpreting this passage is the word “impossible.” Why does this passage say that it is "impossible" to be brought back to God? The actual statement is that it is impossible to be brought back to repentance. While it is true that one must repent to become a new Christian, one need not be a new Christian to repent. This phrase in the NIV is "brought back", but King James say it is impossible to renew them again. The question is, who's doing the renewing? It may be impossible for you or me to bring them back, but that doesn't mean that God cannot. This idea of what is "impossible" shows up in Jesus’ teachings in the Gospels. In Luke 18:27 He says that what is impossible with men is possible with God. So we shouldn’t let the word 'impossible' fool us into thinking that this passage in Hebrews means that there is no way a saved person can leave God and come back.
So if this passage isn’t about the loss of salvation, what is it about? A key to the answer to that question is in the second half of verse 6, which says 'since they again crucify Jesus'. This is where the context is useful. Hebrews 5:11-14 through 6:1-3 Paul talks about moving on to maturity. He says that it is enough living on milk. It is time to start eating solid food. In other words, let's stop going on about the fact that faith, not works, is what gets you salvation, let's talk about how to grow in Christ now that you have become a child of God. " It is important to keep in mind who he was writing to. The recipients of this letter were Hebrews, a group of folks who had a hard time getting rid of the concept of salvation by works. The writer is imploring the Hebrews: Jesus paid for your sins with His death, now accept it and move on. Bottom line: this passage is about performance-based Christianity. The frustrating thing for the author of Hebrews is that once these people have accepted salvation as a free gift, some have fallen back into their old ways of thinking that works is what saves you, and that is the “falling away” mentioned in verse 6. The author is warning them (and us) that once someone gets the whole idea of salvation as a free gift, and then blows it off, then that person is going to have a hard time growing in Christ.
Response to Jared Miller’s reflection #3 I appreciate your reflection especially by underscoring the importance of the balanced view between legalism and presumption – faith that lacks works of love. As we discussed it in class over and over, this is where the Advent church needs to put more emphasis since we often tend to be legalistic in our living and/or preaching. We need to teach the importance of obedience without making it our savior, and the danger of having presumptuous faith.
I really appreciate your comments. You have reminded us that we as a church need to make some changes the way we approach the question of salvation and legalism. We as a church have been really legalistic and it is time to change, but it is important to remember not too fall in the other extreme. I think that if we are to change anything, it has to start with individual members, it has to start with us.
Thank you Jonathan for summarizing the lessons from the past three weeks. I couldn't agree with you more that one of the most important thing in the study of Salvation is the holistic approach. I think that Dr. Hanna did a great job in the class constantly reminding this principle to us. We have to put all facts together before we make conclusions.
Reflection #4 There are times I reflect on the necessity of validating my identity as Christian in a logical manner. Considering that “faith” is employed in about every facet in life, why can’t I simply use a faith-based argument to support my religious convictions? Why should I have to resort to the employment of reason and logic, or provide evidence for the purpose of expressing why I believe the things I do? I assume that people with questions usually ask my opinion, not for the purpose of changing their views, but for the sake of conversation. Salvation is by faith. With that being the case, wouldn’t it be best to simply tell an inquiring person to take a “leap" of faith and accept my understanding of Christianity, instead of attempting to explain biblical truths based on what I “think” the Bible is saying? The article titled, Salvation by Faith suggests that faith has both a subjective and objective element to it. My focus is on neither the subjective, nor the objective aspect of faith as posited by the article. The faith to which I am alluding is the one which enables a person to sit on a chair without first verifying its stability, or the faith which allows a person to eat at a restaurant without first finding out if the food contains arsenic, or the faith which assumes that I will be able to write or read the next few lines. As it relates to sharing good news of salvation, does it necessitate a “faith-based” argument? Is its promulgation dependent on my ability to explain it well? The apostle Peter did say to Always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you. Going back to my point on reason and logic, I do believe that faith is the starting place in being able to share or receive the gospel. I also believe that if a person has the wherewithal to share his or her religious beliefs in a coherent and logical manner, and provide supporting evidence, then it is all the more efficacious. Whether or not a person is able to provide evidence to support his or her belief, in seeking to know and understand, the receiver cannot but help to employ faith. In this postmodern world I do believe that one way by which to reach people is to first know one’s story. Second, I should know the strengths and challenges of other people’s stories (they certainly know ours). Third, and most importantly, I should be able to retell the story of others in such a way to show how the challenges of their stories are met with the strengths of my story. Finally, providing evidence in support of my religious convictions does not eliminate faith, it just makes the “leap” an intelligent leap, not a blind one.
I totally agree on the statement that the Salvation is just a life itself. I tended to divide the salvation into several steps when I try to explain it to others. I thought that could be sound more logical to the listener and help them understand it better. However, as you said there can’t be division between justification and sanctification. Because, all those are the result of the same start accepting Jesus Christ as a personal savior.
You said something in your reflection, just in passing, that really caught my attention. You said that although our doctrines are sourced in Scripture, our different interpretations and understandings can ultimately make the Word say different things (my paraphrase, hopefully that's your intent). This is soooo true. It's amazing to look at the number of fights and battles going on in our church between camps who read the exact same words in two (or more) different ways. We even see this in how to interpret EGW, and she's 19 centuries more recent than the newest Scriptures! This has been Satan's goal all along: twist and distort our interpretations of the Word of God into something contrary to God's spirit. "Has God really said...?"
The rest of your post was quite insightful as well...
There were two points in here that really stood out to me. First, you talked about the struggle to take your theoretical knowledge and turn it practical. It's great that we know how perfection works (without going all perfectionistic and stuff), but how do we teach our members? If you can come up with a good system, I'd like to hear it.
Second, you mentioned that after 4 weeks, you know the doctrine of salvation "a little bit better". I don't know about you, but I'm guessing that there are many people out there who already "know it all" when it comes to salvation; after all, they were baptized. What else is there to know? Dr. Hanna really did a good job of opening up to us just how much there is left to learn (most of which is a mystery to us still), and I can agree that compared to what's left to learn - I only learned a little bit too. :-)
Response to Jared Miller’s reflection #3 I appreciate your reflection especially by underscoring the importance of the balanced view between legalism and presumption – faith that lacks works of love. As we discussed it in class over and over, this is where the Advent church needs to put more emphasis since we often tend to be legalistic in our living and/or preaching. We need to teach the importance of obedience without making it our savior, and the danger of having presumptuous faith.
Paul Muniz 3rd Blog "Once saved always saved - Not"
said...
For years I have been hearing the “once saved always saved” theological belief from many different people. There were several times when the Spirit of the Lord gave me wisdom and I avoided the passionate debates among several of my best friends. In such situations the conversation was redirected to areas where we could lift the name of our Savior, thus avoiding anger. As I read the various articles, scriptures and EGW writings, I began to see something that for years I had been missing about this “once saved always saved” theology. I start with the understanding that there would be no need for salvation if sin did not exist. As we know humans are created in the image of God (Gen. 1:27). God then places man in the Garden, where the trees of life - good and evil were located (Gen. 2:8-9). Man was to work the garden and be observant of Gods commands, by not eating from the tree of good and evil, but that command was violated (Gen. 2:15-17; 3:1-9). It is often said that sin began there, in the Garden of Eden, but scripture indicates otherwise. In actually sin unfolded in the heart of a high-ranking angelical leader (known as Diabolos in Greek) within God’s kingdom, who wanted to be like God, if not greater than God (Eze. 28:17; Jude 6; Isa 14:12-1; 1 Tim. 3:6). As a result Satan and his followers were cast out from heaven (Luke 10:18; Rev. 12:4, 7-9). The argument, which I pose in the form of a question, is this: Since the “Morning Star” and all the angels that followed him were at one time all obedient followers of God, who in a sense had been secured in a heavenly place, fell, are we humans then not susceptible to the same? Additionally, as the story unfolds throughout scripture we read nothing stating that the “great deceiver” and his followers are ever saved. In actually scripture states that they will be destroyed (Rev. 19:20, 20:10). Given than, that these heavenly angelical beings fell and afterwards were never saved, can one reach a conclusion that once we humans are saved we will never fall or be saved afterwards? I do believe that God wants all to be saved. I also believe that God would even forgive Satan, and all his followers, if they were to repent. If God did not wish for all to be saved then Jesus would have never arrived unto the scene. The fact that sin abounds we need a being that can defeat sin. This is where Jesus steps in. In conclusion, it seems to me that biblical story shows that beings have free will, and when such is exercised in love, obedience and humility there can be a sense of security. To exercise ones free will in an unloving, disobedient and prideful manner, and never repent from such, one then has entered a fallen unsecure state; just like the angelical beings that were once in heaven, but fell. May we not be easily deceived into believing that we can never fall. If angels can fall, so can humans.
I was drawn by your comments and thoughts on the issues of salvation. I too have struggled with that same text and its meaning. Can we not be, after we have been? This is a subject worthy of further study. I get the sense that you wanted to say more, but as we know, space is limited here. Thanks for sharing.
Ghenadie Girleanu... Thanks for your obsevation that delusion affects masses in the process of understanding salvation.I also faced the same situation in my country of origin.Partly it was due to the literalistc interpratation of the Scriptures and the Ellen White writings.However, time seems to have healed the wound except for a few individuals who still live in the self-made perfect world.I may not have a concrete answers but have realized that there is power in the gospel if presented in the humility of the holy spirit.Indeed presenting the gospel plainly without trying to coerce people to believing in what we believe,is likely to bring understanding and change,through the convicting power of the holy spirit.Theological understanding on how to interpret the scriptures (which we have received in class)is another great resource that that may prove valuable.Otherwise the Lord in his abundant goodness will supply more answers as we go out to serve.
I agree that you have touched where it hurts in our church system.The idea of judging others seem prevalent. Most probably, I think the problem lies in the failure to discover our grouping into liberalism and conservatism.We actually do not have room to judge others because we are all sinful.In our effort to judge them, we definitely use ourselves, our convictions and our point of view as the standard.This proves detrimental at the end for it makes them resistant instead of being penitent.Our measure ought to be Jesus who left heaven and made himself a sevant lower than we are in order to save us.
(I know this is wayyy too long, but I felt compelled (doesn't happen often) to post it this way and not to boil it down. It's in two parts this is part A. Don't worry the rest will be shorter)
The last bit of the cool morning breeze was lifting away as I sat there in my car at the Wendy’s fast food parking lot. It was a bit early for lunch, but I skipped breakfast and my stomach was begging to be saved from the evils of empty hungriness. I looked at my watch, “I still have 30 minutes till I have to go to work.” I looked up from my watch and jumped in my seat. Just moments prior the lot was empty around me, not a soul in sight, but suddenly looking through the window right me was some man, affected by many years that had been less than kind to him. He knocked on my window, “Excuse me sir, I feel incredibly embarrassed but, could you spare a dollar? Maybe just some change? I am so hungry… could you spare a dollar so I can get a small burger off the 99 cent menu?” I looked the man in his eyes, sizing him up to see if he was one of the many “pseudo-beggars” I had met in the past. Yet something about this man was different. I paused… “Let’s go on in sir.” We went inside and I told him to order whatever he wanted. His eyes looked up and down that menu. I waited, expecting him to order a full meal and then he paused, “Yes, I would like the 99cent burger and fry.” I looked at him, “Sir, order what you want. Price doesn’t matter.” He looked at me and then looked down almost ashamedly in a way. “No sir. Just the burger and fry will do.” “ummm… okay…” I thought to myself. I stepped up to the register, my stomach pleading to be released from hunger, and ordered a big meal. We sat down together and began to eat. I asked him where he was from and he gave me his story. Starting from his boyhood, through his story of fighting in Vietnam, past his attempts to multiply his wealth, and how he lost it all and was now living in a broken down van in some parking lot across town, but there was hope. Although he couldn’t find work up in Washington, where we were, and even the small odd jobs were getting harder and harder to get, there was supposedly a job waiting for him in Arizona. No if only he could get there. “How do you plan to get to Arizona?” I asked as part of me waited to here a plea for money. “Well sir, I’m working on finding some more odd jobs here and there. If I can get a few more I can get my van running again and then off to Arizona.” By now I had finished my meal and the seemingly eternal hunger had been banished. The man looked at me and looked at his tiny hamburger and itsy bitsy order of fries. He had been careful to eat only half. “Well it looks like your done sir” he said, “I should probably be going.” He sat the burger down on its wrapper, set a few fries next to it, wrapped it up and slipped into the pocket of his coat. “Thank you for dinner too.” “Sir, let me order you more for dinner.” “No, you’ve already helped me” he replied. “No really, here’s 10 dollars. Go buy yourself dinner later.” “No… but thank you.” He stood up to leave. I arose to meet him. He shook my hand and thanked me again as he turned to leave. I asked if I could pray with him and his endeavor and he consented I walked back to my car and started up the engine. “This isn’t right, this man needs to eat tonight.” I drove around to the other side of the lot to where he was walking, but he was gone. He was nowhere to be seen. As quickly as he appeared he had vanished.
How often I see myself and others do something similar on such a more tragic level. As I read Romans, as I study the rest of the scriptures, as I grow more and more in my knowledge of salvation, I find that it is so wonderful, awesome, amazing and inspiring that no words can describe it and I am left speechless in awe and wonder that God would sacrifice so much and work so hard to save something like myself. Nevertheless I read that God desires that none should perish. That whoever believes in Him, that is Christ, shall not perish. That Christ laid down his life for us, for me. That we who are burdened and heavy laden should go to Him and we shall receive rest. That those of us who confess our sins to Him, who repent of our wrong doing, are not only forgiven, but cleansed! That there is no evil so great that can be greater than the salvation offered, for where sin abounds, grace abounds much more. That there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ. And that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Yet still … yet still, I find within myself and among others this thing, this thought, that says all this isn’t true that there’s some limit to my screw ups, that there is only a set number of failures permitted. Like I only have so many strikes until I’m out and done for. That the 490th time is it. Therefore I must be perfect in a perfectionist legalistic sort of way, and when failure comes I feel this urge to not turn to Christ (after all this could be sin 491). Instead I must atone for myself somehow or do something on my own to negate that sin and to be saved and filled with peace; to reach my Arizona if you will. It boggles my mind, cause I know that is heresy, but yet the pride that is within me compels me to do it. I am like that man I met at Wendy’s. To proud to admit I can’t do it on my own even though I admit it, too ashamed of myself to go to Jesus. That man refused the help of food banks and churches and was trying to work enough to get out his hell hole, like I feel the urge to refuse that forgiveness and try to escape sin on my own. And finally when I’m so emptied and drained in spirit and I go to Jesus and ask for forgiveness, I somehow expect and seek something small, like that man sought a 99 cent burger and fry when I was seeking to fill him up and send off with more. Yet I have learned in my head and am learning in my heart that such heresy should be rejected. Jesus paid the ultimate price to save us. Now if we only let Him save us! My thought and my charge to you are to do the same. To let go of pride that strives to save self, that strives to achieve heaven by some natural merit we conjure up within us. It is only by grace through faith in Jesus that we are saved. So remember that the next time you feel that way and you ask Jesus for forgiveness, accept the fullness of His grace and love. Don’t seek a 99 cent version of it.
Nyarige Samuel Juma Response # 4 Addressing Liberalism and Conservatism in our Church. Finding the balance between conservatism and liberalism is very pivotal in our upward growth in relation to salvation because the ideologies are a reflection of how one perceives the truth which I may probably refer to a spiritual “world-view”. The imperative element is that generally these ideologies have, are and will in the future influence the church directly or indirectly in matters of faith and lifestyle. The greatest challenge that leaders encounter is how to handle a church that is composed of people with differing ideas on matters of faith and lifestyles, and yet remain biblically faithful without offending anyone. I grew up in a church society that operates communally and tends to subscribe towards conservatism, with the tendency of clearly defining standards on matters of dress and adornment, health, personal relations, liturgy, and general conduct so that they almost become the injunctions of God Himself. Behaving against these standards is seen as violating the basics of salvation. This idea of setting standards has cost more harm than help to the church in the understanding of salvation (the free gift of God). In this environment, doors have been closed towards understanding liberalism and what it can offer. The reluctance to give in to liberal ideologies results from negative impressions which are received from Western cultures. In my “communal “culture, daily life and spiritual life have a slight demarcation, a line so tiny if not almost invisible in Western cultures. Conservatism seems overwhelmed in the Western cultures by the other ideology because of a rather individualistic lifestyle which gives much room for personal expression a converse element in my culture. Generally, the church is faced with the challenge of handling both ideologies in all cultures. These ideologies are not really new in history. David was misunderstood and labeled wrongly by his own wife. Jesus was generally looked at as bringing new theology by the Pharisees and Scribes, Paul met opposition and addressed the issues of differences in his ministry, and Ellen White encountered differences on the idea of perfection resulting from differing groups. As long as we live in the world, we shall for sure encounter these groups and as spiritual leaders at any level, we are not less vulnerable in finding comfortable ground in either of them. How do we then find a balance? Indeed I am grateful for Dr Hanna’s analysis and various contributions from fellow course-mates in this area. Neither of the groups can claim to have absolute truth and influence over the whole Christendom. Absolute reality lies somewhere in the middle line. The most important element is to understand and respect the perceptions of each group as long as they are subject to thus “says the Lord”. Practically, in process of understanding salvation, we will unconsciously use both ideologies because they tend to overlap each other in daily life. Since we will definitely belong to either of the groups, our duty should not be having everyone believing in what we believe regardless of our position or level of influence in the church. Paul gives the best admonition; “Finally brethren, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things” (Philippians 4:8).The class has been a real blessing to me. May God bless Dr. Hannah and the great ladies and gentlemen who made it a success.
While reading through those articles of Biblical Research Institute I have gained some worthy insights about salvation. Yet some concepts are still hard to understand clearly and I believe I have to struggle for more time on those, some other explanations and brilliant questions has lead me closer to the profound and biblical understanding. One of the articles that I read with great interest was ‘Why Did Jesus Die? How God Saves Us’. Just looking at the title of it, I could easily notice that this writing is trying to explain the very basic but the most important element of the Salvation which is the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. The author first came out with the idea of a Jesus’ death as a ransom price. We, as a Christian, are quite familiar with the ransom idea because we have heard it many times. However, the author brought out the intriguing question regarding the pagan understanding of the ransom price. The question was ‘if Jesus was ransomed, who collected the ransom price?’ It is obvious that there has to be the one who is receiving the ransom. According to the pagan understanding of ransom, usually ransom functions as similar as the bribery. It usually takes place to comfort the rage of gods or to please god expecting to receive blessings. I’ve noticed that even though I have never confiscated on those pagan religion somehow I was exposed to those ideas and some times unconsciously thought God as the one who demands ransom in order to be reconcile with him. It seems like a simple transition of thinking. However, this simple looking viewpoint turns out to be huge when it came to the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, because this pagan idea may change the reason of the death of Jesus and that changes the whole work of salvation merciless. It could be the logical basement of saying ‘Jesus Christ was sacrificed to please God and to comfort his anger therefore to reconcile us with God. This dangerous misunderstanding of work of Salvation become clear when he indicates that it was God’s love which led him to the point of sacrifice. He says ‘In Christ’s death is no hint of the Saviour’s effort to win the favor of the Father. With that favor already in had, his confidence carried Him to Calvary’ Deeply meditating the scene of the Calvary especially focusing on the picture of Jesus Christ on the cross, I could acutely sense the great love of God toward human revealed through the death of Jesus Christ knowing the fact that the resurrection of Jesus Christ symbolizes the resurrection of sinners who accepts Christ, and God is the one who initiate the whole work of salvation. He wasn’t the receiver of the ransom but the organizer of the ransom and all the benefit through the ransom was given to humankind as the name of salvation, eternal life, and ultimate reconciliation with God. After reading the article, it’s been clearer to answer the previous question ‘who collected the ransom?’ If this question is asking who the ransom was for? I would say ‘we did’ because we are the one who’s gained the most benefit from the sacrifice of the Son which is the climax of love of God by the name of mercy.
I like your thoughts and relfection. I agree with you in your conclusion where you state that the Bible story shows that we have free will and exercising it in disobedience to God leads to sin. Otherwise sin would be impossible unless God Himself was the arcitect!
I think there is so much more to be said, just not the space to say it.
I wholeheartedly agree that we need to avoid extremism. Yet I suggest that we reject the labels liberalism and conservatism altogether in a pursuit of truth. Perhaps we are saying the same thing in different ways.
My focus is on truth, wherever it is. Therefore I don't see myself as liberal, conservative or moderate, but rather a truth seeker. And I think that Philippians 4:8 exhorts us to do that, to seek and dwell on God's truth.
Wherever people try to stick me on that spectrum let them. But I refuse those labels.
What a powerful illustration of how pride keeps us from accepting the fullness of the Gospel - I'm totally going to "borrow" that for a sermon someday, lol. There is just something so humiliating in asking for help that we often try to get away with as little assistance as possible, especially when we take Jesus' teachings literalistically about the "70 times 7" times forgiven thing (and think we're going to run out of opportunities).
Trung Hoang Reflection #3 Perfection and Closing Events…
The subject of the character perfection of God’s people during the time of trouble is a hot topic not only during Mrs. White’s time, but throughout Adventist’s existence. Because of her quote in GC 425 that God’s people will have to “stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator,” people who favor perfectionism understand this statement to sinless perfection. They interpret that God’s people reach to the sinless perfection that they no longer have sin and therefore, do not need Christ’s mediation. For as long as we live on this sinful earth, we will have human sinful nature. However, we as long as we yield to Christ, we are considered to be perfect in God’s eyes. Many Christians live in such fear that if they make any mistake or commit any sin they think they lose their salvation. That’s why they stress so much in perfectionism. No matter what we do and how we try it, we’re never going to get perfect on our own. The more we concentrate in getting rid of bad habits, avoiding temptations, or disciplining our selves with our efforts, the farther we fall from God’s grace. The longer we walk with God the more we understand the need of God’s salvation. If we surrender to God and allow Him to restore His image in us, we will recognize how bad of a sinner we are. This is a good thing for we must depend on Christ even more for eternal security. That brings us to another point. If have know in whom we put our faith in and receive the eternal security, we should not live in constant fear of losing our salvation. I’m not down playing the consequence of sin, but concentrate more in God’s grace. I admit that I’m weak, but He is strong. Christians must walk confidently with the guide of the Holy Spirit knowing that God’s patient, kind, and compassionate. How else can we preach to others around us than a joyful and anxious-free lives that they can put their trust in the same source that give us salvation.
Nice writing about human perfection and salvation. It reminds me that the fact that justifying work has been done not by our faith in Him but by His faith on us.
Reflection number 4 One of the hindrances to living the Christian life successfully is failure to understand what the Bible teaches on the nature of sin and perfection. According to my understanding we can define sin according to the book of Psalms 51:2, 3, in three basic concepts. Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgression and my sin is ever before me. Iniquity is a condition of sinfulness, Sin means to miss the mark, and transgression is a deliberate violation of law. The Bible, in applying the term perfection to believers, never means sinlessness. The Bible writers are not saying that these men are sinless. The meaning is that of spiritual maturity, full grown spiritually, ripe in spiritual understanding, whole in response to God, keeping nothing back. A "perfect" Christian is one whose heart and mind is permanently committed to Christ, cannot be moved. If one's view of sin is shallow enough, sinless perfection would not be an impossible achievement. It is a defective view of sin that leads to a wrong understanding of perfection. If sin simply means a deliberate, willful doing of what is known to be wrong, then no Christian should commit this kind of sin. But if sin includes also a man's state of mind and heart, man's bias toward sin, sin as an indwelling tendency, then perfection presents a totally different picture.
I gretly appreciate that you hit where it hurts in our chuch.I also faced the same challenge of people becoming 'off-shoots' in my country of origin. I may not wholesomely have concrete answers but let me give the following.Seemingly part of the reason for this happenning was and may be reading the scriptures and the Ellen White writings too literalistically.The other element maybe lack of proper understanding on salvation as a multi-facet idea involving a continous process of growth till Christ appears on the clouds of heaven(consumation). The antidote for this problem maybe to read the Scriptures and the E. White in a balanced and humble spirit in subjection to thus 'says the Lord'
Alexis... On diet and salvation. I surely agree with your analysis on the place of diet in relation to salvation.Indeed many a times I have seen people condemned for still eating against reformation rules while on church registers.There seem to be failure in understanding that reformation does not add anything to our perfection or earn us God's favour.It has a place in keeping us healthy in this life, but beyond that we still need the forgiveness of sins on a daily basis. In condemning others, we loose the element of being in the same basket of a sinful nature.May be the best approach is to find a true balance in positive daily living and continous perfection only in Christ.
Reflection #4 I found it good to read through the topic “Christian Perfection”, and here are the main points that I grabbed for myself: fist, a serious problem begins with the attached meaning or the understanding we give to the word “perfection”. If it’s understood to mean “sinlessness” then it goes a long way into teaching heresy. However, since the word is used in the bible (borrowing Dr. Hannah’s language), we need not fight it but define it and use it in its proper way. If the term “perfection” as used in the bible is taken to mean sinlessness, it gets the bible into contradictions. The same bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10) After than how can it again say be the opposite? Perfection in the way it is used in the bible carries a meaning of spiritual maturity and ripening in spiritual understanding. It has some aspect of full surrender to God and letting Him take over, subjecting our will into his and letting Him lead as Lord of our lives. It has to do with seeking only God’s glory and prying as Christ did, “not my will but thine O Lord.” We can not afford to forget the point Paul makes when he says, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil 3:12-14) The Apostle does not look at himself as having made it to sinlessness, but rather still remembers that he can still preach to others and fall back into sin. And this is a good reminder to ourselves that there is nothing like “once saved always saved” situation in Christian experience. If that were the case, at least Paul would not write as he did in the above text. There is always room for improvement in Christian journey and there is always need for relying on Christ. Perfectionism will lead to self righteousness and spiritual pride as seen in the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector. It’s important though, to remember too that Christian life should be a continuous growth, gaining new heights every day. There should be spiritual maturity, where by the grace of Christ keeps gaining victory over sinful tendencies, but there is never a time when one will exclaim, “am now done, I can never sin anymore neither can I fall from by spirituality!” This study interacts well with what our discussions have been in the class with special emphasis on the topic made by Dr. M. Hannah. Much of what he said in class came into mind as I was reading on this topic and I appreciate his lessons. This is for sure an important lesson for all Christians especially Adventists, lest we who think are standing we fall and we who think we are first we come in last.
Reflection #4 I found it good to read through the topic “Christian Perfection”, and here are the main points that I grabbed for myself: fist, a serious problem begins with the attached meaning or the understanding we give to the word “perfection”. If it’s understood to mean “sinlessness” then it goes a long way into teaching heresy. However, since the word is used in the bible (borrowing Dr. Hannah’s language), we need not fight it but define it and use it in its proper way. If the term “perfection” as used in the bible is taken to mean sinlessness, it gets the bible into contradictions. The same bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10) After than how can it again say be the opposite? Perfection in the way it is used in the bible carries a meaning of spiritual maturity and ripening in spiritual understanding. It has some aspect of full surrender to God and letting Him take over, subjecting our will into his and letting Him lead as Lord of our lives. It has to do with seeking only God’s glory and prying as Christ did, “not my will but thine O Lord.” We can not afford to forget the point Paul makes when he says, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil 3:12-14) The Apostle does not look at himself as having made it to sinlessness, but rather still remembers that he can still preach to others and fall back into sin. And this is a good reminder to ourselves that there is nothing like “once saved always saved” situation in Christian experience. If that were the case, at least Paul would not write as he did in the above text. There is always room for improvement in Christian journey and there is always need for relying on Christ. Perfectionism will lead to self righteousness and spiritual pride as seen in the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector. It’s important though, to remember too that Christian life should be a continuous growth, gaining new heights every day. There should be spiritual maturity, where by the grace of Christ keeps gaining victory over sinful tendencies, but there is never a time when one will exclaim, “am now done, I can never sin anymore neither can I fall from by spirituality!” This study interacts well with what our discussions have been in the class with special emphasis on the topic made by Dr. M. Hannah. Much of what he said in class came into mind as I was reading on this topic and I appreciate his lessons. This is for sure an important lesson for all Christians especially Adventists, lest we who think are standing we fall and we who think we are first we come in last.
Reflection #4 I found it good to read through the topic “Christian Perfection”, and here are the main points that I grabbed for myself: fist, a serious problem begins with the attached meaning or the understanding we give to the word “perfection”. If it’s understood to mean “sinlessness” then it goes a long way into teaching heresy. However, since the word is used in the bible (borrowing Dr. Hannah’s language), we need not fight it but define it and use it in its proper way. If the term “perfection” as used in the bible is taken to mean sinlessness, it gets the bible into contradictions. The same bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10) After than how can it again say be the opposite? Perfection in the way it is used in the bible carries a meaning of spiritual maturity and ripening in spiritual understanding. It has some aspect of full surrender to God and letting Him take over, subjecting our will into his and letting Him lead as Lord of our lives. It has to do with seeking only God’s glory and prying as Christ did, “not my will but thine O Lord.” We can not afford to forget the point Paul makes when he says, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil 3:12-14) The Apostle does not look at himself as having made it to sinlessness, but rather still remembers that he can still preach to others and fall back into sin. And this is a good reminder to ourselves that there is nothing like “once saved always saved” situation in Christian experience. If that were the case, at least Paul would not write as he did in the above text. There is always room for improvement in Christian journey and there is always need for relying on Christ. Perfectionism will lead to self righteousness and spiritual pride as seen in the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector. It’s important though, to remember too that Christian life should be a continuous growth, gaining new heights every day. There should be spiritual maturity, where by the grace of Christ keeps gaining victory over sinful tendencies, but there is never a time when one will exclaim, “am now done, I can never sin anymore neither can I fall from by spirituality!” This study interacts well with what our discussions have been in the class with special emphasis on the topic made by Dr. M. Hannah. Much of what he said in class came into mind as I was reading on this topic and I appreciate his lessons. This is for sure an important lesson for all Christians especially Adventists, lest we who think are standing we fall and we who think we are first we come in last.
Reflection #4 I found it good to read through the topic “Christian Perfection”, and here are the main points that I grabbed for myself: fist, a serious problem begins with the attached meaning or the understanding we give to the word “perfection”. If it’s understood to mean “sinlessness” then it goes a long way into teaching heresy. However, since the word is used in the bible (borrowing Dr. Hannah’s language), we need not fight it but define it and use it in its proper way. If the term “perfection” as used in the bible is taken to mean sinlessness, it gets the bible into contradictions. The same bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10) After than how can it again say be the opposite? Perfection in the way it is used in the bible carries a meaning of spiritual maturity and ripening in spiritual understanding. It has some aspect of full surrender to God and letting Him take over, subjecting our will into his and letting Him lead as Lord of our lives. It has to do with seeking only God’s glory and prying as Christ did, “not my will but thine O Lord.” We can not afford to forget the point Paul makes when he says, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil 3:12-14) The Apostle does not look at himself as having made it to sinlessness, but rather still remembers that he can still preach to others and fall back into sin. And this is a good reminder to ourselves that there is nothing like “once saved always saved” situation in Christian experience. If that were the case, at least Paul would not write as he did in the above text. There is always room for improvement in Christian journey and there is always need for relying on Christ. Perfectionism will lead to self righteousness and spiritual pride as seen in the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector. It’s important though, to remember too that Christian life should be a continuous growth, gaining new heights every day. There should be spiritual maturity, where by the grace of Christ keeps gaining victory over sinful tendencies, but there is never a time when one will exclaim, “am now done, I can never sin anymore neither can I fall from by spirituality!” This study interacts well with what our discussions have been in the class with special emphasis on the topic made by Dr. M. Hannah. Much of what he said in class came into mind as I was reading on this topic and I appreciate his lessons. This is for sure an important lesson for all Christians especially Adventists, lest we who think are standing we fall and we who think we are first we come in last.
Reflection #4 I found it good to read through the topic “Christian Perfection”, and here are the main points that I grabbed for myself: fist, a serious problem begins with the attached meaning or the understanding we give to the word “perfection”. If it’s understood to mean “sinlessness” then it goes a long way into teaching heresy. However, since the word is used in the bible (borrowing Dr. Hannah’s language), we need not fight it but define it and use it in its proper way. If the term “perfection” as used in the bible is taken to mean sinlessness, it gets the bible into contradictions. The same bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10) After than how can it again say be the opposite? Perfection in the way it is used in the bible carries a meaning of spiritual maturity and ripening in spiritual understanding. It has some aspect of full surrender to God and letting Him take over, subjecting our will into his and letting Him lead as Lord of our lives. It has to do with seeking only God’s glory and prying as Christ did, “not my will but thine O Lord.” We can not afford to forget the point Paul makes when he says, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil 3:12-14) The Apostle does not look at himself as having made it to sinlessness, but rather still remembers that he can still preach to others and fall back into sin. And this is a good reminder to ourselves that there is nothing like “once saved always saved” situation in Christian experience. If that were the case, at least Paul would not write as he did in the above text. There is always room for improvement in Christian journey and there is always need for relying on Christ. Perfectionism will lead to self righteousness and spiritual pride as seen in the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector. It’s important though, to remember too that Christian life should be a continuous growth, gaining new heights every day. There should be spiritual maturity, where by the grace of Christ keeps gaining victory over sinful tendencies, but there is never a time when one will exclaim, “am now done, I can never sin anymore neither can I fall from by spirituality!” This study interacts well with what our discussions have been in the class with special emphasis on the topic made by Dr. M. Hannah. Much of what he said in class came into mind as I was reading on this topic and I appreciate his lessons. This is for sure an important lesson for all Christians especially Adventists, lest we who think are standing we fall and we who think we are first we come in last.
Reflection #4 I found it good to read through the topic “Christian Perfection”, and here are the main points that I grabbed for myself: fist, a serious problem begins with the attached meaning or the understanding we give to the word “perfection”. If it’s understood to mean “sinlessness” then it goes a long way into teaching heresy. However, since the word is used in the bible (borrowing Dr. Hannah’s language), we need not fight it but define it and use it in its proper way. If the term “perfection” as used in the bible is taken to mean sinlessness, it gets the bible into contradictions. The same bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10) After than how can it again say be the opposite? Perfection in the way it is used in the bible carries a meaning of spiritual maturity and ripening in spiritual understanding. It has some aspect of full surrender to God and letting Him take over, subjecting our will into his and letting Him lead as Lord of our lives. It has to do with seeking only God’s glory and prying as Christ did, “not my will but thine O Lord.” We can not afford to forget the point Paul makes when he says, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil 3:12-14) The Apostle does not look at himself as having made it to sinlessness, but rather still remembers that he can still preach to others and fall back into sin. And this is a good reminder to ourselves that there is nothing like “once saved always saved” situation in Christian experience. If that were the case, at least Paul would not write as he did in the above text. It’s important though, to remember too that Christian life should be a continuous growth, gaining new heights every day. There should be spiritual maturity, where by the grace of Christ keeps gaining victory over sinful tendencies, but there is never a time when one will exclaim, “am now done, I can never sin anymore neither can I fall from by spirituality!” This study interacts well with what our discussions have been in the class with special emphasis on the topic made by Dr. M. Hannah. Much of what he said in class came into mind as I was reading on this topic and I appreciate his lessons. This is for sure an important lesson for all Christians especially Adventists, lest we who think are standing we fall and we who think we are first we come in last.
Reflection #4 I found it good to read through the topic “Christian Perfection”, and here are the main points that I grabbed for myself: fist, a serious problem begins with the attached meaning or the understanding we give to the word “perfection”. If it’s understood to mean “sinlessness” then it goes a long way into teaching heresy. However, since the word is used in the bible (borrowing Dr. Hannah’s language), we need not fight it but define it and use it in its proper way. If the term “perfection” as used in the bible is taken to mean sinlessness, it gets the bible into contradictions. The same bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10) After than how can it again say be the opposite? Perfection in the way it is used in the bible carries a meaning of spiritual maturity and ripening in spiritual understanding. It has some aspect of full surrender to God and letting Him take over, subjecting our will into his and letting Him lead as Lord of our lives. It has to do with seeking only God’s glory and prying as Christ did, “not my will but thine O Lord.” We can not afford to forget the point Paul makes when he says, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil 3:12-14) The Apostle does not look at himself as having made it to sinlessness, but rather still remembers that he can still preach to others and fall back into sin. And this is a good reminder to ourselves that there is nothing like “once saved always saved” situation in Christian experience. If that were the case, at least Paul would not write as he did in the above text. It’s important though, to remember too that Christian life should be a continuous growth, gaining new heights every day. There should be spiritual maturity, where by the grace of Christ keeps gaining victory over sinful tendencies, but there is never a time when one will exclaim, “am now done, I can never sin anymore neither can I fall from by spirituality!” This study interacts well with what our discussions have been in the class with special emphasis on the topic made by Dr. M. Hannah. Much of what he said in class came into mind as I was reading on this topic and I appreciate his lessons. This is for sure an important lesson for all Christians especially Adventists, lest we who think are standing we fall and we who think we are first we come in last.
Reflection #4 I found it good to read through the topic “Christian Perfection”, and here are the main points that I grabbed for myself: fist, a serious problem begins with the attached meaning or the understanding we give to the word “perfection”. If it’s understood to mean “sinlessness” then it goes a long way into teaching heresy. However, since the word is used in the bible (borrowing Dr. Hannah’s language), we need not fight it but define it and use it in its proper way. If the term “perfection” as used in the bible is taken to mean sinlessness, it gets the bible into contradictions. The same bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10) After than how can it again say be the opposite? Perfection in the way it is used in the bible carries a meaning of spiritual maturity and ripening in spiritual understanding. It has some aspect of full surrender to God and letting Him take over, subjecting our will into his and letting Him lead as Lord of our lives. It has to do with seeking only God’s glory and prying as Christ did, “not my will but thine O Lord.” We can not afford to forget the point Paul makes when he says, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil 3:12-14) The Apostle does not look at himself as having made it to sinlessness, but rather still remembers that he can still preach to others and fall back into sin. And this is a good reminder to ourselves that there is nothing like “once saved always saved” situation in Christian experience. If that were the case, at least Paul would not write as he did in the above text. There is always room for improvement in Christian journey and there is always need for relying on Christ. Perfectionism will lead to self righteousness and spiritual pride as seen in the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector. It’s important though, to remember too that Christian life should be a continuous growth, gaining new heights every day. There should be spiritual maturity, where by the grace of Christ keeps gaining victory over sinful tendencies, but there is never a time when one will exclaim, “am now done, I can never sin anymore neither can I fall from by spirituality!” This study interacts well with what our discussions have been in the class with special emphasis on the topic made by Dr. M. Hannah. Much of what he said in class came into mind as I was reading on this topic and I appreciate his lessons. This is for sure an important lesson for all Christians especially Adventists, lest we who think are standing we fall and we who think we are first we come in last.
Reflection #4 I found it good to read through the topic “Christian Perfection”, and here are the main points that I grabbed for myself: fist, a serious problem begins with the attached meaning or the understanding we give to the word “perfection”. If it’s understood to mean “sinlessness” then it goes a long way into teaching heresy. However, since the word is used in the bible (borrowing Dr. Hannah’s language), we need not fight it but define it and use it in its proper way. If the term “perfection” as used in the bible is taken to mean sinlessness, it gets the bible into contradictions. The same bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10) After than how can it again say be the opposite? Perfection in the way it is used in the bible carries a meaning of spiritual maturity and ripening in spiritual understanding. It has some aspect of full surrender to God and letting Him take over, subjecting our will into his and letting Him lead as Lord of our lives. It has to do with seeking only God’s glory and prying as Christ did, “not my will but thine O Lord.” We can not afford to forget the point Paul makes when he says, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil 3:12-14) The Apostle does not look at himself as having made it to sinlessness, but rather still remembers that he can still preach to others and fall back into sin. And this is a good reminder to ourselves that there is nothing like “once saved always saved” situation in Christian experience. If that were the case, at least Paul would not write as he did in the above text. It’s important though, to remember too that Christian life should be a continuous growth, gaining new heights every day. There should be spiritual maturity, where by the grace of Christ keeps gaining victory over sinful tendencies, but there is never a time when one will exclaim, “am now done, I can never sin anymore neither can I fall from by spirituality!” This study interacts well with what our discussions have been in the class with special emphasis on the topic made by Dr. M. Hannah. Much of what he said in class came into mind as I was reading on this topic and I appreciate his lessons. This is for sure an important lesson for all Christians especially Adventists, lest we who think are standing we fall and we who think we are first we come in last.
Reflection #4 I found it good to read through the topic “Christian Perfection”, and here are the main points that I grabbed for myself: fist, a serious problem begins with the attached meaning or the understanding we give to the word “perfection”. If it’s understood to mean “sinlessness” then it goes a long way into teaching heresy. However, since the word is used in the bible (borrowing Dr. Hannah’s language), we need not fight it but define it and use it in its proper way. If the term “perfection” as used in the bible is taken to mean sinlessness, it gets the bible into contradictions. The same bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10) After than how can it again say be the opposite? Perfection in the way it is used in the bible carries a meaning of spiritual maturity and ripening in spiritual understanding. It has some aspect of full surrender to God and letting Him take over, subjecting our will into his and letting Him lead as Lord of our lives. It has to do with seeking only God’s glory and prying as Christ did, “not my will but thine O Lord.” We can not afford to forget the point Paul makes when he says, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil 3:12-14) It’s important though, to remember too that Christian life should be a continuous growth, gaining new heights every day. There should be spiritual maturity, where by the grace of Christ keeps gaining victory over sinful tendencies, but there is never a time when one will exclaim, “am now done, I can never sin anymore neither can I fall from by spirituality!” This study interacts well with what our discussions have been in the class with special emphasis on the topic made by Dr. M. Hannah. Much of what he said in class came into mind as I was reading on this topic and I appreciate his lessons. This is for sure an important lesson for all Christians especially Adventists, lest we who think are standing we fall and we who think we are first we come in last.
In Whidden’s book, chapter 9, the author mentions the term “cheap grace.” This is becoming more and more popular in Christian circle. We struggle within our Adventist family with the problematic perfectionism, but on the other side of this, many believe in unconditional salvation. These people believe that no matter how they live after they accepted Christ as their justification, they cannot fall out of their salvation. Those who believe in this theology are not totally wrong. God’s grace for our salvation through Christ is unconditional. There is no merit from what we do that can earn God’s forgiveness, but the sacrifice of Jesus Christ alone. It’s conditional from God’s love for us, but just like any relationship, it’s a two-way deal. God’s gift for us is always free and available, but we have to want to accept it. By accepting God’s gift, we conditionally accept His solution of salvation. God not only wants to save us from bondage of sin which results in death, He wants to restore His image in us like how He created us in the beginning. By accepting His solution, we must yield to His guidance through the Holy Spirit. Our human problem is we want God to be our slave doing just what we want Him to do, but we don’t allow Him to be our God. A balanced teaching in our church can help people to not to take the gift too likely. The gift is unconditional from God and we must conditionally accept it.
Response #5 to Thomas Oyaro Ong'ou I agree with you that we are not called to leave this world. Jesus even prayed to the Father that we would not take us out of this world but to transform this world. Heaven is not fun if it's only a hand full of people. God wants everyone to come to repentance.
Response #6 to Hyo Won Assignment #3 It's real easy for us to use human superficial works as spiritual sacrifice and expect God to merit us. Transformation is both for inward and outward. If it's not by the grace of God we ministers would be in trouble.
Response #7 to Jasmine Fraser Reflection #4 No matter how much we've studied we still have many mysteries that we have eternity to learn and keep on learning. I used to be troubled by it, but now it actually gives me more reasons to want to get to heaven to know the answers to the mysteries.
Response #8 to Bledi Leno Reflection #2 How easy it is to judge someone by our standard. I totally agree with you Bledi. This is how others outside view of us. When I first associated with SDA before my baptism my friends had warned me about SDA being fundamentalist. Now I understand that they meant legalist. However I thank God that it was the truth that God allow me to see, not the external things. We cannot change how others around us act, but we can live how God wants us to live. Others will be saved not by our imperfection, but by his hope for our eternity.
Jared Miller Doctrine of Salvation Reflection #4 7/2/10
Reflections on What I have Read
I like how the book of Romans ends: 15:4 mentions “we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope” and then again in 15:13 “may the God of hope fill you will all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Paul ends his longest epistle encouraging the saints to have hope. And then in 16:20 he uses some irony when he writes “the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly.” Part of the hope of the believers is that God will crush the devil, and we will be free from this world of sin, and enjoy the salvation and eternal life God desires for us. I found some of Whidden’s final chapters to get a little technical, but I tried to follow him. Instead of trying to unpack what he wrote in the last 5-6 chapters in one or two paragraphs, I will focus on things that are very clear and seem to be very important (at least to me). First of all, on page 128 he mentions “three special characteristics” that are closely connected to perfection in Ellen White’s writings: unity, humility, and patience. It seems clear that Ellen White rejected people’s claims to sinless perfectionism—hence her emphasis on humility. As it was noted, the closer we get to Christ, the more we will realize our sinfulness. I also found Whidden’s summary of what Ellen White taught concerning being perfect in the last days to be helpful: “It seems consistent to understand the sealed saints as both perfect (not committing willful sins) and yet imperfect (not absolutely reflecting the perfect image of Jesus, because they will still need earthliness to be consumed)” (139). I appreciate Whidden’s attempt to see a balance in Ellen White’s writings, instead of going to extremes like some people do. Speaking of extremes, the Primacy of the Gospel Committee Report from the BRI was quite interesting. I knew of no such committee and discussion before reading that article. I appreciated how the article was balanced by focusing on 12 areas of agreement and 12 areas disagreement between the GC committee and the 1888 committee. The fact that the church invested five years to thoroughly address the 1888 committee tells me that the 1888 committee has been a cause of serious trouble. The 1888 Message Study Committee seems to have an agenda, and seems to be very critical of church leaders (not to mention many of their positions that are off the mark). I think the article is a firm rebuke to the 1888 committee, but done in a loving way. It seems to me that the 1888 committee is not balanced in their views—they have gone to several extremes—and the article calls them back to a balance that is in according with the Bible, Ellen White, and the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
How What I have Read Relates to the Class Discussions
I see the above discussion about what Whidden wrote relating to what was said in class: We need to avoid two extremes: sinful presumption vs. sinless perfection. The balance is that we can live above sin as we keep our eyes on Jesus. I appreciate the Christ-centered focus in class, that really, we must keep our eyes on Jesus and be balanced in Him, therefore avoiding both ditches on our right and left.
I appreciate your thoughts Trung. I agree with you, that we need to teach a balanced message, and avoid preaching “cheap grace.” God loves us the way we are, but refuses to leave us that way—He wants to change us to be more and more like Jesus.
I like what Bigogo said regarding not fighting what the Bible says, but rather defining the words correctly and using them properly—especially regarding perfection. I also appreciate what you said about sinlessness—surely no one can claim that after reading 1 John 1:8-10, as you so eloquently said.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated. Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them. As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth. What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13 God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated. Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them. As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth. What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13 God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated. Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them. As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth. What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13 God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated. Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them. As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth. What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13 God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated. Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them. As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth. What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13 God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated. Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them. As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth. What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13 God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated. Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them. As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth. What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13 God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated. Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them. As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth. What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13 God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated. Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them. As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth. What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13 God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated. Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them. As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth. What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13 God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
Richard M. White Assignment #5 June 17, 2010 After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated. Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them. As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth. What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13 God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated. Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them. As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth. What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13 God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
Response to Alexis comments on 6/25/10. I appreciate you cmooents and do a gree with you wholehartedly. If we are to discuss strong faith, I beleive it is restraining from doing something that produces strong faith. Too often Christians ar elooksed upon as weak. It is more stronger to restrain from doing what is natural or easy to do in this world than restrain from do it. Sinning is easy. It is not sinning that is difficult. But thank God we have Jesus who has paved the way for us and showed us that it is possible to be obedient to the law. Thank you
Romans Chapter 3 is one of the important Chapters in Romans. Within chapter 3, following context starting from verse 21 is being regarded as a significant portion of Paul’s righteous by faith theology. Before chapter 3 verse 21, apostle Paul talks about sin, about God’s judgment, about the Jews and the law, about the faithfulness of God, and just before verse 21, he talks about the idea that no one is righteous. It’s almost like nicely setting up a solid ground expecting something huge to take place. Starting with the illustration about sin and the status of the sinners, he then clearly points out that there will be judgment from God upon all the sinners; the righteous judgment. After that he talks about the Jew and the law intentionally in order to make the Jews to realize that the sinners he mentioned whom will receive the judgment doesn’t only mean the gentiles but also means themselves, so that they may admit the fact that they are also under the same judgment as other gentiles. It seems like Paul has written the first part of the Romans in elaborately organized way, so as to drive the readers, especially the Jews, to the certain point of destination, the set ground, that the core of his message could be delivered. From the destination, the edge of the cliff called ‘judgment by God’, Paul declares ‘But! Now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus’ (Rom 3:21-24, NIV). In his declaration we can see hope and mercy, he says to ‘all’ who believe the righteousness will come. The righteousness by faith that was the core message he wanted to share. When Paul asserted that Jews are also sinners, it may upset the Jews a little bit, but Paul did try to make them known that they are also sinners because he was certain about the presupposition when one could be righteous which is being a sinner; admitting that himself/herself is a sinner. By skipping that part not a single human can be regarded as righteous. As we can see in the text that ‘all’ people form ‘all who believe’ also indicates ‘all (who) have sinned’’ and ‘(all who) are to be justified freely by his grace’. Thus, the people who will be justified, has to be the ones who was sinners and receive righteousness by believing in Jesus Christ. Sometimes, as living as Christians, we often are tempted to think that our righteous deed may help us to be people who deserve salvation. I think this kind of temptation was also on the Jews back then, and Paul was trying to urge them to realize the danger of it. This may be the reason why he mentioned ‘fall short of the glory of God’ to explain who is not righteous but sinful, because this illustration could tell clearly that human effort has insuperable limitation. Just as it is impossible for us who has fallen from the glory of God to regain the glory by our own effort, it is impossible to make ourselves righteous by our pitiful endeavor because the only way we can be righteous is when God makes us righteous as it was also God who made the human in his (God’s) image (glory).
Predestination but not determination The topic of predestination has always fascinated me. Depends on which denomination you ask, the members might have a different definition of the topic. I would not have said that I had a full understanding of the topic myself until I attended this class. Predestination is often explained in the contents predetermination. That is our faith is predetermined. Romans 5 talks about predestination, but this is conditional predestination. As noted in class, God knows all things, and he knows that we are predestining onto eternal death and onto everlasting life. He knows the end form the beginning. The mystery is, we do not know. We don’t need to know, because if we do this will require God to remove our option of free choice. We have the right to choose the way of life to be saved or the way onto death, to be lost. When we chose one of these paths, God has predestined the end of this path. However, we should never forget that we can always come off the path or should I say turn back and onto the path of righteousness. The younger son in the prodigal son did just that. Unfortunately, the story did not mention if his brother did. The beauty of God is that he gives us choices, he does not force us, he is long suffering with us, and he provides a way out for us in the most difficult circumstances. It is for us to have faith in him, and believe that he will lead us through a path of righteousness for his name sake. He does call us onto him, but we are the one who needs to respond to his calling. Predestination in not determination as Calvin, would like us to believe. Calvin believes that God call some of us onto salvation. Meaning that no matter what we do, we will be saving. We cannot avoid it. He also believes that others are call to damnation. Once again it does not matter what they do, they are condemned for ever. This is not the marking of a good God. My God is good. He is love. I would not want to condemn my own children for something they have not been given the chance to choose. God does not do this to his children. We are predestining of course, but onto to life or onto to death, we have the choice.
I agree. We need to avoid the extremes and remain balanced. We also need to lovingly rebuke those that move off into those extremes and preach the truth.
Grace can cure our legalistic tendencies The Problem We are all born legalists. We learn from society that every effort is rewarded; this method is used at home, school, family, and even church. Some Christians believe that if they dress right, speak right, are part of the right group, and behave the best they can, then they have a better opportunity to be saved. One of the terrible effects of legalism is that it steals our peace and joy. Legalism is a burden according to Acts 15:10, “Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?” This is the reason why Jesus himself warned us about legalism in Matthew 16:6, “And Jesus said to them, "Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." Even as ministers we may have a theology that lifts up God’s grace theologically, but still holds to legalism in practice. I believe that part of the problem is a superficial reading of scripture which leads to a superficial Christian experience that seeks approval by works. It is easy to fall into legalism because it is an easier way to show outward compliance to God. On the other side, it is harder to pray, to look for counseling, and take into consideration the body of Christ. It is hard to let the Holy Spirit lead. Even ministers of the gospel without intending sometimes emphasize legalism. We must be careful. Legalism is a dangerous ground because even if one has the right deeds, but the wrong attitude, then those deeds are worthless. The result is living under the tyranny of perfectionism. This is why having a legalistic spirit is sinful. The Cure Acts 15:11 "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." Grace has two important ingredients: it is through faith (John 3:36 “whosoever believes in the Son has eternal life”), and it is free (Eph 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast.” - emphasis supplied). Faith is the human response to grace, yet grace is a free will gift from God. Every step of the way in the Christian walk is due to grace. No longer will our focus be on performing, outward appearance or in measuring others to human standards, but the focus will be Jesus Christ and living under his unconditional grace. The Holy Spirit will be the guide and will walk along side ready to come to our aid when we fall short to bring us back into relationship with Christ. We know that living under strict rules with no grace is damaging to one’s faith, but I believe that the opposite is also true, that is to live so far under grace that behavior ceases to matter. Where is the balance? God is full of grace but he is also just, how can these two attributes be reconciled? How to be a balanced minister and teach the correct relationship with grace without being singled out as liberal? Indeed the issue of grace and legalism is a deep one, and deserves much more time and research. However, the word of God presents strong evidence to support the relationship between grace, and faith and how we as Christ’s followers should walk, not according to the law but not because we can do away with the law, but because the new life in Christ, allows us to be above the law as we walk in newness of life and enjoy the close relationship with Christ through the Holy Spirit. It will be this union with Christ which will enable us to live righteous lives, in the inside and the outside.
Response to Josiah's response on Eternity and Salvation
Thanks Josiah for your thoughtful input. It is amazing knowing that the subject of salvation is a topic we could spend days looking at but can never exhaust or fully comprehend, not even in eternity. When I mentioned salvation as eternal life, it was not in the context that it is a means to an end. I was referring to eternal life in the sense that throughout eternity we will continue learning about Salvation. Yes we may spend eternity trying to understand the mystery of sin, but more than understanding the mystery of sin we will spend eternity learning about the unfathomable love of the One who saved us.
I remember in one of our class discussion Dr. Hanna made a point on eternity that is forever etched in my mind. He was helping us to understand the dynamic process of glorification in the earth made new. He alluded to the reality that as created beings we will continue to grow in the perfect image of God throughout eternity, but we will never be perfect to the point that God is perfect. To illustrate that, he said we may get to the point where we are close to knowing all about the universe, and we may become excited that we are about to know all there is to know. At that point God can create new things for us to start learning all over again. I was thrilled as I process that thought, and came to the conclusion that eternity is exciting. It is on that premise I propose that salvation is eternal life because for the rest of our lives we cannot forget the love of the One who saved us. I contemplate the whole matter of salvation and eternity and the words of the following song comes to mind:
There is singing up in Heaven such as we have never known, Where the angels sing the praises of the Lamb upon the throne, Their sweet harps are ever tuneful, and their voices always clear, O that we might be more like them while we serve the Master here!
But I hear another anthem, blending voices clear and strong, “Unto Him Who hath redeemed us and hath bought us,” is the song; We have come through tribulation to this land so fair and bright, In the fountain freely flowing He hath made our garments white.
Then the angels stand and listen, for they cannot join the song, Like the sound of many waters, by that happy, blood washed throng, For they sing about great trials, battles fought and vict’ries won, And they praise their great Redeemer, who hath said to them, “Well done.”
So, although I’m not an angel, yet I know that over there I will join a blessed chorus that the angels cannot share; I will sing about my Savior, who upon dark Calvary, freely pardoned my transgressions, died to set a sinner free.
Refrain
Holy, holy, is what the angels sing, And I expect to help them make the courts of heaven ring; But when I sing redemption’s story, they will fold their wings, For angels never felt the joys that our salvation brings.
Reflection #4: Grace can cure our legalistic tendencies The Problem We are all born legalists. We learn from society that every effort is rewarded; this method is used at home, school, family, and even church. Some Christians believe that if they dress right, speak right, are part of the right group, and behave the best they can, then they have a better opportunity to be saved. One of the terrible effects of legalism is that it steals our peace and joy. Legalism is a burden according to Acts 15:10, “Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?” This is the reason why Jesus himself warned us about legalism in Matthew 16:6, “And Jesus said to them, "Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." Even as ministers we may have a theology that lifts up God’s grace theologically, but still holds to legalism in practice. I believe that part of the problem is a superficial reading of scripture which leads to a superficial Christian experience that seeks approval by works. It is easy to fall into legalism because it is an easier way to show outward compliance to God. On the other side, it is harder to pray, to look for counseling, and take into consideration the body of Christ. It is hard to let the Holy Spirit lead. Even ministers of the gospel without intending sometimes emphasize legalism. We must be careful. Legalism is a dangerous ground because even if one has the right deeds, but the wrong attitude, then those deeds are worthless. The result is living under the tyranny of perfectionism. This is why having a legalistic spirit is sinful. The Cure Acts 15:11 "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." Grace has two important ingredients: it is through faith (John 3:36 “whosoever believes in the Son has eternal life”), and it is free (Eph 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast.” - emphasis supplied). Faith is the human response to grace, yet grace is a free will gift from God. Every step of the way in the Christian walk is due to grace. We know that living under strict rules with no grace is damaging to one’s faith, but I believe that the opposite is also true, that is to live so far under grace that behavior ceases to matter. Where is the balance? God is full of grace but he is also just, how can these two attributes be reconciled? How to be a balanced minister and teach the correct relationship with grace without being singled out as liberal? Indeed the issue of grace and legalism is a deep one, and deserves much more time and research. However, the word of God presents strong evidence to support the relationship between grace, and faith and how we as Christ’s followers should walk, not according to the law but not because we can do away with the law, but because the new life in Christ, allows us to be above the law as we walk in newness of life and enjoy the close relationship with Christ through the Holy Spirit. It will be this union with Christ which will enable us to live righteous lives, in the inside and the outside.
Reflection #4: Grace can cure our legalistic tendencies The Problem We are all born legalists. We learn from society that every effort is rewarded; this method is used at home, school, family, and even church. Some Christians believe that if they dress right, speak right, are part of the right group, and behave the best they can, then they have a better opportunity to be saved. One of the terrible effects of legalism is that it steals our peace and joy. Legalism is a burden according to Acts 15:10, “Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?” This is the reason why Jesus himself warned us about legalism in Matthew 16:6, “And Jesus said to them, "Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." Even as ministers we may have a theology that lifts up God’s grace theologically, but still holds to legalism in practice. I believe that part of the problem is a superficial reading of scripture which leads to a superficial Christian experience that seeks approval by works. It is easy to fall into legalism because it is an easier way to show outward compliance to God. On the other side, it is harder to pray, to look for counseling, and take into consideration the body of Christ. It is hard to let the Holy Spirit lead. Even ministers of the gospel without intending sometimes emphasize legalism. We must be careful. Legalism is a dangerous ground because even if one has the right deeds, but the wrong attitude, then those deeds are worthless. The result is living under the tyranny of perfectionism. This is why having a legalistic spirit is sinful. The Cure Acts 15:11 "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." Grace has two important ingredients: it is through faith (John 3:36 “whosoever believes in the Son has eternal life”), and it is free (Eph 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast.” - emphasis supplied). Faith is the human response to grace, yet grace is a free will gift from God. Every step of the way in the Christian walk is due to grace. We know that living under strict rules with no grace is damaging to one’s faith, but I believe that the opposite is also true, that is to live so far under grace that behavior ceases to matter. Indeed the issue of grace and legalism is a deep one, and deserves much more time and research. However, the word of God presents strong evidence to support the relationship between grace, and faith and how we as Christ’s followers should walk, not according to the law but not because we can do away with the law, but because the new life in Christ, allows us to be above the law as we walk in newness of life and enjoy the close relationship with Christ through the Holy Spirit. It will be this union with Christ which will enable us to live righteous lives, in the inside and the outside.
Reflection #4: Grace can cure our legalistic tendencies The Problem We are all born legalists. We learn from society that every effort is rewarded; this method is used at home, school, family, and even church. Some Christians believe that if they dress right, speak right, are part of the right group, and behave the best they can, then they have a better opportunity to be saved. One of the terrible effects of legalism is that it steals our peace and joy. Legalism is a burden according to Acts 15:10, “Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?” This is the reason why Jesus himself warned us about legalism in Matthew 16:6, “And Jesus said to them, "Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." Even as ministers we may have a theology that lifts up God’s grace theologically, but still holds to legalism in practice. I believe that part of the problem is a superficial reading of scripture which leads to a superficial Christian experience that seeks approval by works. It is easy to fall into legalism because it is an easier way to show outward compliance to God. On the other side, it is harder to pray, to look for counseling, and take into consideration the body of Christ. It is hard to let the Holy Spirit lead. Even ministers of the gospel without intending sometimes emphasize legalism. We must be careful. Legalism is a dangerous ground because even if one has the right deeds, but the wrong attitude, then those deeds are worthless. The result is living under the tyranny of perfectionism. This is why having a legalistic spirit is sinful. The Cure Acts 15:11 "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." Grace has two important ingredients: it is through faith (John 3:36 “whosoever believes in the Son has eternal life”), and it is free (Eph 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast.” - emphasis supplied). Faith is the human response to grace, yet grace is a free will gift from God. Every step of the way in the Christian walk is due to grace. We know that living under strict rules with no grace is damaging to one’s faith, but I believe that the opposite is also true, that is to live so far under grace that behavior ceases to matter. Indeed the issue of grace and legalism is a deep one, and deserves much more time and research. However, the word of God presents strong evidence to support the relationship between grace, and faith and how we as Christ’s followers should walk, not according to the law but not because we can do away with the law, but because the new life in Christ, allows us to be above the law as we walk in newness of life and enjoy the close relationship with Christ through the Holy Spirit. It will be this union with Christ which will enable us to live righteous lives, in the inside and the outside.
Response #1 to Michael Taylor 6/9/10 “Getting on at the ground level”
I also agree with you; that we as humans tend to assume that those that we have contact with already know the basics of salvation. Sometimes it can be easy to over look the understanding of other person. I like how you illustrated the writing of Paul to the gentiles. He spoke to them plainly, yet with the plain, he fed them meat. He started out with that which they were familiar and added unto the information, not in a theological complex way, but with human terms to help them grow in their faith. Another thing that I see done a lot especially in my culture, is too much trying to convert the person on the spot than getting to know the person. Sometimes we miss out on how to preach to others when we don’t know try to get to know them. Paul, when speaking to the gentiles uses their terms, sayings, and arguments that help him to preach the gospel in a way that is understood specifically by the gentiles.
Response #2 to Jared Miller 6/11/10 “Reflection on What I Have Read”
I appreciate the response to the reading that you have done on Ellen G. White. I also found it very helpful to read and understand how Ellen G. White develops her understanding on Salvation. It is also very interesting that in her time, people would call her a law abider, all law. Even to this day we have a lot of people that look at Adventism as a religion that is only law, law. But in understanding Romans, and reading up on her book and her development of her understanding helps me to clear my understanding of the law and grace, which today is still a big topic.
Response #3 to Jasmine Fraser 6/13/10 “A Balanced Understanding of Scripture”
You have brought to light the complexity of salvation. It’s not an easy subject to uncover. Nor do I think that we will fully understand the whole spectrum of salvation; like I saw you pointed out in your paper. I also like the concept that we have learned in class, which is to look at the bible not only in the literal but in the symbolic also. It’s interesting to see how many people will go to the extreme in order to point out a literal view, and others will go and point out a symbolic view. Both types of persons tend to hold on to their view to bring out the point, in the manner of solving something. Yet, Salvation itself has mysteries, and also things that we must have faith, for if they were things that could be understood and seen, then there wouldn’t be need of faith.
Response #4 to Cesar Grassiotto 6/15/10 “The Consequences of Adam’s Fall”
I appreciate the topic that you chose to write about. This epidemic scene of sin and evil and how it impacts the world is one of my greatest interests. One of my reasons for interest in the topic is because of the challenge of understanding why sin arrived on the earth on near creation in the first place. One would imagine that if there is a problem that is foreseen then it could be avoided with the plan of correcting sin before it arrives. I appreciate what the professor mentions in regard to this, how if we knew the reason of sin, then we may come to the point of excusing sinful acts. Yet since sin is a huge impact on the whole cosmos, I can comprehend you when you mention your impressive reaction of Jesus’ grace on human kind. Like Paul mentions, ‘where there is sin, grace abounds even more.
Response #5 to Michael Taylor 6/16/10 “If there were no more mystery…”
I appreciate the fact that you pointed out the word ‘mysteries.’ When reading scriptures there are always mysteries. Yet, just like what you were saying in the American culture, growing up here, I also noticed the way the culture (and others) has moved into trying to explain the unexplainable. I have to say that the American culture has progressed in their understanding, yet there are also mysteries in the research of this culture, that are not called mysteries, but a scientific probability. In other words, when we look at science, which is used to try to explain everything, we see that mostly everything that is believed to be true is rooted under a mystery that requires one to have faith in the science calculation, even though it is not proven. A lot of what is understood to be reliable science is only reliable when one believes. When you believe in the bible or in science, there is a requirement of faith for that which is not seen. Since there’s a requirement of faith that tells us that there are mysteries that are not understood, even though many would argue to know more in order to think that they have more knowledge than others.
Response #6 to Richard M. White 6/16/10 “Salvation found not in the Cross or the Blood but in the atonement of God’s Love”
I enjoyed reading your reflection paper concerning God’s love. I like your perspective of God’s love being what makes the death of Christ so meaningful. Just like Paul mentions in 1 Corinthians 13, ‘with out love what good is it? (Paraphrased). This article reaffirms God’s love for others and me. It shows me that because of love God was willing to die for us through Christ. It wasn’t an obligation, there wasn’t anything that we possessed worthy of being saved, yet God loved, which is a choice, us that he came down for us, to die for us, in order to take us with him when he returns. I also like the idea of knowing that God’s love extends to the past, present, and future. It is awesome to feel loved!
Response #7 to Vladimir Isaac 6/20/10 “Article: The Dynamic of Salvation”
The dynamic of salvation is huge! It has an impact that cannot be totally understood, yet in part we can grasp some of it and feel at peace knowing that through Christ we have a savior; just like you had mentioned on the paper. I like how you mentioned that God couldn’t be surprise. I also affirm that belief. I also affirm free will, like you had mentioned. God gives each person the freedom to choose. God gives this freedom to man, because freedom is something that God has. Just like we had heard mentioned in class, God also chooses, yet he chooses to do good all the time. This thought makes me react, because at any time, He could chose to do Evil, but at the same time He always chooses to do good. Since He chooses, like you said, He gives us the opportunity to choose. Though he knows the choices we will make, He still works with us, where we are.
Response #8 to Jared Miller 6/25/10 “Reflection on What I Have Read”
I appreciated the topic of which you presented in your 3rd reflection. For me it was interesting also to find out what 1888 was all about, and it was interesting to see how Ellen G. Whites preaches a subject more than others. It makes me think sometimes of the emphasis that we must have on salvation. Because when we get a better understanding of salvation and how that reflects in our lives, just like Ellen G. White, we can find peace. Romans 5:1 says, “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.” Just in the understanding of what Justification is, is merely enough to give a person peace, knowing that though we will not be perfect by what we have done, through Christ, we can receive his justification, perfection; not of what we have done, but because of what He did.
Reflection #4: Grace can cure our legalistic tendencies The Problem We are all born legalists. We learn from society that every effort is rewarded; this method is used at home, school, family, and even church. Some Christians believe that if they dress right, speak right, are part of the right group, and behave the best they can, then they have a better opportunity to be saved. One of the terrible effects of legalism is that it steals our peace and joy. Legalism is a burden according to Acts 15:10, “Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?” This is the reason why Jesus himself warned us about legalism in Matthew 16:6, “And Jesus said to them, "Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees." Even as ministers we may have a theology that lifts up God’s grace theologically, but still holds to legalism in practice. I believe that part of the problem is a superficial reading of scripture which leads to a superficial Christian experience that seeks approval by works. It is easy to fall into legalism because it is an easier way to show outward compliance to God. On the other side, it is harder to pray, to look for counseling, and take into consideration the body of Christ. It is hard to let the Holy Spirit lead. Even ministers of the gospel without intending sometimes emphasize legalism. We must be careful. Legalism is a dangerous ground because even if one has the right deeds, but the wrong attitude, then those deeds are worthless. The result is living under the tyranny of perfectionism. This is why having a legalistic spirit is sinful. The Cure Acts 15:11 "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." Grace has two important ingredients: it is through faith (John 3:36 “whosoever believes in the Son has eternal life”), and it is free (Eph 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast.” - emphasis supplied). Faith is the human response to grace, yet grace is a free will gift from God. Every step of the way in the Christian walk is due to grace. We know that living under strict rules with no grace is damaging to one’s faith, but I believe that the opposite is also true, that is to live so far under grace that behavior ceases to matter. Indeed the issue of grace and legalism is a deep one, and deserves much more time and research. However, the word of God presents strong evidence to support the relationship between grace, and faith and how we as Christ’s followers should walk, not according to the law but not because we can do away with the law, but because the new life in Christ, allows us to be above the law as we walk in newness of life and enjoy the close relationship with Christ through the Holy Spirit. It will be this union with Christ which will enable us to live righteous lives, in the inside and the outside.
Response to Walter 9/11/2007 8:14 AM Wow, I am sorry but glad for your experience in the conversion of the ‘Adventist’ pastor. Quite the irony. I can relate, but wasn’t shocked at your statement concerning our church, “the love and acceptance I've felt in their presence tends to be more than I get in 'logical minded' SDA gatherings.”When I was in Japan with my gf meeting her parents; It was difficult to communicate for obvious reasons. Moreover, L.’s father is a Buddhist priest! Interesting Christmas vacation. They knew I was vegetarian and accommodated my diet for the first week. We took the bullet train to historical sites like Hiroshima/Nagasaki. I will never forget the anger I felt for war when I saw half blown Dome (which they preserved for tourists) pictures of people with bones hanging, skin sagging, and blood dripping as their now deformed bodies would be forever changed by the Atomic bomb; heart-gripping. I mention this is because we often rip each others hearts and spirits apart when we feel we are more right than others which causes us to feel justified in our revenge towards them. Is this the gospel? After my 3 week visit with the family; late night tea drinking and extensive conversations in the mornings about family; I realized how much we have in common. point: When I left, L. told me that her family loved me and wanted me to come back soon. This reminds me of a quote: “Preach the gospel wherever you go, and when necessary use words.” –St. Francis of Assisi. Paul mentions the issues of knowledge and prophecy (what Adventists claim) but states that it will all pass away. Moreover, it’s partial; no matter how much we have. Paul then speaks on what really matters and describes it as patient, kind, not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude, not insisting on its own, and endures all things. A child is one who puts knowledge, prophecy, and yes even faith and conviction to give our lives for the glory of God above this one thing. Yet as adults (of mature standing), we will put foolish things away in light of God’s highest calling. Now! These remain faith, hope, and this, but the greatest of these is this; love!
Response to Walter 9/11/2007 8:14 AM Wow, I am sorry yet glad for your experience. Quite the irony. Sadly, I wasn’t shocked at your statement concerning our church, “the love and acceptance I've felt in their presence tends to be more than I get in 'logical minded' SDA gatherings.” When I was in Japan with my gf meeting her parents; It was difficult to communicate for obvious reasons. Moreover, L.’s father is a Buddhist priest! Interesting Christmas vacation. They knew I was vegetarian and accommodated my diet for the first week. We took the bullet train to historical sites like Hiroshima/Nagasaki. I will never forget the anger I felt for war when I saw half blown Dome (which they preserved for tourists) pictures of people with bones hanging, skin sagging, and blood dripping as their now deformed bodies would be forever changed by the Atomic bomb; heart-gripping. I mention this is because we often rip each others hearts and spirits apart when we feel we are more right than others which causes us to feel justified in our revenge towards them. Is this the gospel? After my 3 week visit with the family I realized how much we have in common. point: When I left, L. told me her family loved me and wanted me to come back soon. This reminds me of a quote: “Preach the gospel wherever you go, and when necessary use words.” Paul mentions the issues of knowledge and prophecy but states that it will all pass away. Moreover, it’s partial; no matter how much we have. Paul then speaks on what really matters and describes it as patient, kind, not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude, not insisting on its own, and endures all things. A child is one who puts knowledge, prophecy, and yes even faith and conviction to give our lives for the glory of God above this one thing. Yet as adults (of mature standing), we will put foolish things away in light of God’s highest calling. Now! These remain faith, hope, and this, but the greatest of these is this; love!
Reflection #4: Apparently, I’ve reached perfection. Now what?
This section of my readings has been rather enjoyable because of the general topics covered. As long as I’ve been in the church, I traced the history of foolishness that relates to the 144,000, last generation perfectionism, and all of the similar doctrines. I heard an anecdote (no, I don’t remember where), for example, about Ellen White returning from Australia to find that church members were having babies like crazy. She asked what was going on, and was told that the Bible teaches that there must be 144,000 in the remnant prior to the Second Coming, so they were trying to just make babies to fill out that number. For this reason, I enjoyed getting into Ellen White’s theology of perfection and the last generation in Whidden’s book. First, I’ll comment on my reading in Romans.
Romans 13-15 describe the connection between personal sanctification and how to live as a community. Paul FIRST reminds believers that we should follow the laws and taxes of our government, because they exist for a reason. Even when we disagree with these leaders and their rules, God still has a purpose in bringing them into power. This needs to be read for the sake of both Republicans during the current presidency and also Democrats during some future presidency, I think. Only after affirming these “cosmic” laws does Paul reaffirm the Transcosmic Law in 13:8-10 (but, once again, only the laws that relate to others). 13:11 is the high point for the whole last section of Romans, in my opinion.
I won’t jump into discussions of chapters 14-15 (because they are the subject of my not-a-research paper), but I do want to comment on 16:1. Phoebe is referred to as a “diakonon” (lit. deacon…or a feminization, deaconess?). I am grateful for the latest GC session for recognizing that based on Phoebe’s example, Paul did allow women to have some limited authority (as deaconesses). Ellen White described the ordination of certain women to roles we now ascribe to deaconesses in July 1895, but made no other definitive statements for women’s ordination to any other ministries. I’m glad that we’re finally following the example and suggestions made by Paul’s example and Ellen White’s pen, but I’m sad to think that this won’t be satisfying for many others who wish for more power. Can somebody help me out with something - how can I read statements from Paul like 1 Timothy 2:11-15, which literally say to not allow women to have authority over men, but then arrive at a conclusion that is actually totally contrary to this statement because Paul was only “addressing a cultural concern”? I would think that Paul’s statement is based on some greater principle which Paul wouldn’t contradict in his application. Please be careful with your response; it’s possible to accidently reject dietary laws, the seventh-day Sabbath, etc. if we dismiss the relationship between the written testimonies of the Bible and the principles upon which they’re based. I know that this wasn’t about justification/sanctification/glorification/etc., but it did come up in the realm of Romans.
With the remaining space, I’ll return to the themes of perfection/perfectionism from Whidden’s book. Thank you, Dr. Hanna, for helping to find a holistic balance when studying perfection. We ARE called to be perfect, and we know that Jesus declares us perfect. To totally rejection perfection is to ignore parts of the Gospel. Dr. Whidden pointed out, on page 139, just what it means to live without a mediator in the end times . In the context of the Great Controversy, this presentation of the end times as a chance for all creation to once and for all see the evil of Satan’s way fits a LOT better, in my opinion, than to say that sure, Jesus alone lived a sinless life, so He alone could be the Savior…well, except for those Adventists over there who finally overcame the temptation to eat cheese.
Wow, I’ve been particularly feisty this time. I guess I still have some work to do before perfection.
Blog #4 When I look back at this intense three-week-long class, I must confess that I have learned so much. In fact, I believe that I have learned a lot more than what I could possibly retain. I will have to give my utmost effort to keep the information fresh in my memory. There were many aspects of salvation that was clarified for me through the lectures, discussions, and the readings. Whidden’s chapters on perfection was very helpful on helping me to have a balanced view on Christian life. He mentions that there was a strong emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit after 1888. I wonder how many Seventh-day Adventists forget the fact that it is the Holy Spirit that does the transforming work in us, and give us the image of Christ’s perfection. I believe it is understandable for some people to have misunderstood some of Ellen White’s statements on perfection, because she stated that the perfection was attainable. However, misunderstanding results from quoting her out of context, instead of studying her writings extensively, and holistically. E.R. Jones was on the camp of perfectionism, and he stated that there will be a time before the close of probation where God’s people must develop perfectionism. I believe examining this incident carefully will help us to know how to respond to such false claims when we encounter such incidents in the future. It is not the nature perfection that we will be achieving before the close of probation. Along with perfection, justification and sanctification are some concepts that may sound easy, but may seem very confusing to many. I appreciated Ellen White’s view on the relationship between the two. She says that conversion happens as the result of faith, and the fruit of holiness occurs in relation to it. I cannot quite fathom the art of justification, because Christ justifies us every moment we confess and repent through his gracious merits. This process is done by faithful loyalty that includes obedience and repentance. I believe it is easy to cross the line on this delicate balance, and end up on the side of legalism and perfectionism if we forget the fact that it is only the merit of Christ that can save us. Even the obedience, which shows that we have accepted Christ’s gracious merits by faith, cannot come from ourselves, but God gives it to us. It is also easy for us to make an error on perfection if we think of it in terms of absolute sinless state. However, it is not about our behavior, but about what Christ does on our behalf. The idea of sanctification also discourages the view of perfectionism, because Ellen White has stated that it is the work of a lifetime. Edward Heppenstall in his article, “How perfect is ‘perfect’ or is Christian perfection possible?” he writes that the perfect righteousness of Christ is the only possible answer to our sin problem. Our righteousness are filthy rags that do not cover us. Ellen White has stated that when the human will and divine power combine, it becomes omnipotent. I will choose to show my loyalty to Christ by confessing and repenting by faith in order that God may perfect my character more into His likeness.
Blog #4 When I look back at this intense three-week-long class, I must confess that I have learned so much. In fact, I believe that I have learned a lot more than what I could possibly retain. I will have to give my utmost effort to keep the information fresh in my memory. There were many aspects of salvation that was clarified for me through the lectures, discussions, and the readings. Whidden’s chapters on perfection was very helpful on helping me to have a balanced view on Christian life. He mentions that there was a strong emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit after 1888. I wonder how many Seventh-day Adventists forget the fact that it is the Holy Spirit that does the transforming work in us, and give us the image of Christ’s perfection. I believe it is understandable for some people to have misunderstood some of Ellen White’s statements on perfection, because she stated that the perfection was attainable. However, misunderstanding results from quoting her out of context, instead of studying her writings extensively, and holistically. E.R. Jones was on the camp of perfectionism, and he stated that there will be a time before the close of probation where God’s people must develop perfectionism. I believe examining this incident carefully will help us to know how to respond to such false claims when we encounter such incidents in the future. It is not the nature perfection that we will be achieving before the close of probation. Along with perfection, justification and sanctification are some concepts that may sound easy, but may seem very confusing to many. I appreciated Ellen White’s view on the relationship between the two. She says that conversion happens as the result of faith, and the fruit of holiness occurs in relation to it. I cannot quite fathom the art of justification, because Christ justifies us every moment we confess and repent through his gracious merits. This process is done by faithful loyalty that includes obedience and repentance. I believe it is easy to cross the line on this delicate balance, and end up on the side of legalism and perfectionism if we forget the fact that it is only the merit of Christ that can save us. Even the obedience, which shows that we have accepted Christ’s gracious merits by faith, cannot come from ourselves, but God gives it to us. It is also easy for us to make an error on perfection if we think of it in terms of absolute sinless state. However, it is not about our behavior, but about what Christ does on our behalf. The idea of sanctification also discourages the view of perfectionism, because Ellen White has stated that it is the work of a lifetime. Edward Heppenstall in his article, “How perfect is ‘perfect’ or is Christian perfection possible?” he writes that the perfect righteousness of Christ is the only possible answer to our sin problem. Our righteousness are filthy rags that do not cover us. Ellen White has stated that when the human will and divine power combine, it becomes omnipotent. I will choose to show my loyalty to Christ by confessing and repenting by faith in order that God may perfect my character more into His likeness.
Blog #4 When I look back at this intense three-week-long class, I must confess that I have learned so much. In fact, I believe that I have learned a lot more than what I could possibly retain. I will have to give my utmost effort to keep the information fresh in my memory. There were many aspects of salvation that was clarified for me through the lectures, discussions, and the readings. Whidden’s chapters on perfection was very helpful on helping me to have a balanced view on Christian life. He mentions that there was a strong emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit after 1888. I wonder how many Seventh-day Adventists forget the fact that it is the Holy Spirit that does the transforming work in us, and give us the image of Christ’s perfection. I believe it is understandable for some people to have misunderstood some of Ellen White’s statements on perfection, because she stated that the perfection was attainable. However, misunderstanding results from quoting her out of context, instead of studying her writings extensively, and holistically. E.R. Jones was on the camp of perfectionism, and he stated that there will be a time before the close of probation where God’s people must develop perfectionism. I believe examining this incident carefully will help us to know how to respond to such false claims when we encounter such incidents in the future. It is not the nature perfection that we will be achieving before the close of probation. Along with perfection, justification and sanctification are some concepts that may sound easy, but may seem very confusing to many. I appreciated Ellen White’s view on the relationship between the two. She says that conversion happens as the result of faith, and the fruit of holiness occurs in relation to it. I cannot quite fathom the art of justification, because Christ justifies us every moment we confess and repent through his gracious merits. This process is done by faithful loyalty that includes obedience and repentance. I believe it is easy to cross the line on this delicate balance, and end up on the side of legalism and perfectionism if we forget the fact that it is only the merit of Christ that can save us. Even the obedience, which shows that we have accepted Christ’s gracious merits by faith, cannot come from ourselves, but God gives it to us. It is also easy for us to make an error on perfection if we think of it in terms of absolute sinless state. However, it is not about our behavior, but about what Christ does on our behalf. The idea of sanctification also discourages the view of perfectionism, because Ellen White has stated that it is the work of a lifetime. Edward Heppenstall in his article, “How perfect is ‘perfect’ or is Christian perfection possible?” he writes that the perfect righteousness of Christ is the only possible answer to our sin problem. Our righteousness are filthy rags that do not cover us. Ellen White has stated that when the human will and divine power combine, it becomes omnipotent. I will choose to show my loyalty to Christ by confessing and repenting by faith in order that God may perfect my character more into His likeness.
Blog #4 When I look back at this intense three-week-long class, I must confess that I have learned so much. In fact, I believe that I have learned a lot more than what I could possibly retain. I will have to give my utmost effort to keep the information fresh in my memory. There were many aspects of salvation that was clarified for me through the lectures, discussions, and the readings. Whidden’s chapters on perfection was very helpful on helping me to have a balanced view on Christian life. He mentions that there was a strong emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit after 1888. I wonder how many Seventh-day Adventists forget the fact that it is the Holy Spirit that does the transforming work in us, and give us the image of Christ’s perfection. I believe it is understandable for some people to have misunderstood some of Ellen White’s statements on perfection, because she stated that the perfection was attainable. However, misunderstanding results from quoting her out of context, instead of studying her writings extensively, and holistically. E.R. Jones was on the camp of perfectionism, and he stated that there will be a time before the close of probation where God’s people must develop perfectionism. I believe examining this incident carefully will help us to know how to respond to such false claims when we encounter such incidents in the future. It is not the nature perfection that we will be achieving before the close of probation. Along with perfection, justification and sanctification are some concepts that may sound easy, but may seem very confusing to many. I appreciated Ellen White’s view on the relationship between the two. She says that conversion happens as the result of faith, and the fruit of holiness occurs in relation to it. I cannot quite fathom the art of justification, because Christ justifies us every moment we confess and repent through his gracious merits. This process is done by faithful loyalty that includes obedience and repentance. I believe it is easy to cross the line on this delicate balance, and end up on the side of legalism and perfectionism if we forget the fact that it is only the merit of Christ that can save us. Even the obedience, which shows that we have accepted Christ’s gracious merits by faith, cannot come from ourselves, but God gives it to us. It is also easy for us to make an error on perfection if we think of it in terms of absolute sinless state. However, it is not about our behavior, but about what Christ does on our behalf. The idea of sanctification also discourages the view of perfectionism, because Ellen White has stated that it is the work of a lifetime. Ellen White has stated that when the human will and divine power combine, it becomes omnipotent. I will choose to show my loyalty to Christ by confessing and repenting by faith in order that God may perfect my character more into His likeness.
Blog #4 When I look back at this intense three-week-long class, I must confess that I have learned so much. In fact, I believe that I have learned a lot more than what I could possibly retain. I will have to give my utmost effort to keep the information fresh in my memory. There were many aspects of salvation that was clarified for me through the lectures, discussions, and the readings. Whidden’s chapters on perfection was very helpful on helping me to have a balanced view on Christian life. He mentions that there was a strong emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit after 1888. I wonder how many Seventh-day Adventists forget the fact that it is the Holy Spirit that does the transforming work in us, and give us the image of Christ’s perfection. I believe it is understandable for some people to have misunderstood some of Ellen White’s statements on perfection, because she stated that the perfection was attainable. However, misunderstanding results from quoting her out of context, instead of studying her writings extensively, and holistically. I believe examining incidents such as the one with E.R. Jones carefully will help us to know how to respond to such false claims when we encounter such incidents in the future. It is not the nature perfection that we will be achieving before the close of probation. Along with perfection, justification and sanctification are some concepts that may sound easy, but may seem very confusing to many. I appreciated Ellen White’s view on the relationship between the two. She says that conversion happens as the result of faith, and the fruit of holiness occurs in relation to it. I cannot quite fathom the art of justification, because Christ justifies us every moment we confess and repent through his gracious merits. This process is done by faithful loyalty that includes obedience and repentance. I believe it is easy to cross the line on this delicate balance, and end up on the side of legalism and perfectionism if we forget the fact that it is only the merit of Christ that can save us. Even the obedience, which shows that we have accepted Christ’s gracious merits by faith, cannot come from ourselves, but God gives it to us. It is also easy for us to make an error on perfection if we think of it in terms of absolute sinless state. However, it is not about our behavior, but about what Christ does on our behalf. The idea of sanctification also discourages the view of perfectionism, because Ellen White has stated that it is the work of a lifetime. Ellen White has stated that when the human will and divine power combine, it becomes omnipotent. I will choose to show my loyalty to Christ by confessing and repenting by faith in order that God may perfect my character more into His likeness.
Blog #4 When I look back at this intense three-week-long class, I must confess that I have learned a lot more than what I could possibly retain. I will have to give my utmost effort to keep the information fresh in my memory. There were many aspects of salvation that was clarified for me through the lectures, discussions, and the readings. Whidden’s chapters on perfection was very helpful on helping me to have a balanced view on Christian life. He mentions that there was a strong emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit after 1888. I wonder how many Seventh-day Adventists forget the fact that it is the Holy Spirit that does the transforming work in us, and give us the image of Christ’s perfection. I believe it is understandable for some people to have misunderstood some of Ellen White’s statements on perfection, because she stated that the perfection was attainable. However, misunderstanding results from quoting her out of context, instead of studying her writings extensively, and holistically. I believe examining incidents such as the one with E.R. Jones carefully will help us to know how to respond to such false claims when we encounter such incidents in the future. It is not the nature perfection that we will be achieving before the close of probation. Along with perfection, justification and sanctification are some concepts that may sound easy, but may seem very confusing to many. I appreciated Ellen White’s view on the relationship between the two. She says that conversion happens as the result of faith, and the fruit of holiness occurs in relation to it. I cannot quite fathom the art of justification, because Christ justifies us every moment we confess and repent through his gracious merits. This process is done by faithful loyalty that includes obedience and repentance. I believe it is easy to cross the line on this delicate balance, and end up on the side of legalism and perfectionism if we forget the fact that it is only the merit of Christ that can save us. Even the obedience, which shows that we have accepted Christ’s gracious merits by faith, cannot come from ourselves, but God gives it to us. It is also easy for us to make an error on perfection if we think of it in terms of absolute sinless state. However, it is not about our behavior, but about what Christ does on our behalf. The idea of sanctification also discourages the view of perfectionism, because Ellen White has stated that it is the work of a lifetime. Ellen White has stated that when the human will and divine power combine, it becomes omnipotent. I will choose to show my loyalty to Christ by confessing and repenting by faith in order that God may perfect my character more into His likeness.
Blog #4 When I look back at this intense three-week-long class, I must confess that I have learned a lot more than what I could possibly retain. I will have to give my utmost effort to keep the information fresh in my memory. There were many aspects of salvation that was clarified for me through the lectures, discussions, and the readings. Whidden’s chapters on perfection was very helpful on helping me to have a balanced view on Christian life. He mentions that there was a strong emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit after 1888. I wonder how many Seventh-day Adventists forget the fact that it is the Holy Spirit that does the transforming work in us, and give us the image of Christ’s perfection. I believe it is understandable for some people to have misunderstood some of Ellen White’s statements on perfection, because she stated that the perfection was attainable. However, misunderstanding results from quoting her out of context, instead of studying her writings extensively, and holistically. I believe examining incidents such as the one with E.R. Jones carefully will help us to know how to respond to such false claims when we encounter such incidents in the future. It is not the nature perfection that we will be achieving before the close of probation. Along with perfection, justification and sanctification are some concepts that may sound easy, but may seem very confusing to many. I appreciated Ellen White’s view on the relationship between the two. She says that conversion happens as the result of faith, and the fruit of holiness occurs in relation to it. I cannot quite fathom the art of justification, because Christ justifies us every moment we confess and repent through his gracious merits. This process is done by faithful loyalty that includes obedience and repentance. I believe it is easy to cross the line on this delicate balance, and end up on the side of legalism and perfectionism if we forget the fact that it is only the merit of Christ that can save us. Even the obedience, which shows that we have accepted Christ’s gracious merits by faith, cannot come from ourselves, but God gives it to us. It is also easy for us to make an error on perfection if we think of it in terms of absolute sinless state. However, it is not about our behavior, but about what Christ does on our behalf. The idea of sanctification also discourages the view of perfectionism, because Ellen White has stated that it is the work of a lifetime. Ellen White has stated that when the human will and divine power combine, it becomes omnipotent. I will choose to show my loyalty to Christ by confessing and repenting by faith in order that God may perfect my character more into His likeness.
Blog #4 When I look back at this intense three-week-long class, I must confess that I have learned a lot more than what I could possibly retain. I will have to give my utmost effort to keep the information fresh in my memory. There were many aspects of salvation that was clarified for me through the lectures, discussions, and the readings. Whidden’s chapters on perfection was very helpful on helping me to have a balanced view on Christian life. He mentions that there was a strong emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit after 1888. I wonder how many Seventh-day Adventists forget the fact that it is the Holy Spirit that does the transforming work in us, and give us the image of Christ’s perfection. I believe it is understandable for some people to have misunderstood some of Ellen White’s statements on perfection, because she stated that the perfection was attainable. However, misunderstanding results from quoting her out of context, instead of studying her writings extensively, and holistically. I believe examining incidents such as the one with E.R. Jones carefully will help us to know how to respond to such false claims when we encounter such incidents in the future. It is not the nature perfection that we will be achieving before the close of probation. Along with perfection, justification and sanctification are some concepts that may sound easy, but may seem very confusing to many. I appreciated Ellen White’s view on the relationship between the two. She says that conversion happens as the result of faith, and the fruit of holiness occurs in relation to it. I cannot quite fathom the art of justification, because Christ justifies us every moment we confess and repent through his gracious merits. This process is done by faithful loyalty that includes obedience and repentance. I believe it is easy to cross the line on this delicate balance, and end up on the side of legalism and perfectionism if we forget the fact that it is only the merit of Christ that can save us. Even the obedience, which shows that we have accepted Christ’s gracious merits by faith, cannot come from ourselves, but God gives it to us. It is also easy for us to make an error on perfection if we think of it in terms of absolute sinless state. However, it is not about our behavior, but about what Christ does on our behalf. The idea of sanctification also discourages the view of perfectionism, because Ellen White has stated that it is the work of a lifetime. Ellen White has stated that when the human will and divine power combine, it becomes omnipotent. I will choose to show my loyalty to Christ by confessing and repenting by faith in order that God may perfect my character more into His likeness.
Blog #4 As I reflect on this intense class, I must confess that I have learned a lot more than what I could possibly retain. I need to give my utmost effort to keep the information fresh in my memory. There were many aspects of salvation that was clarified for me through the lectures, discussions, and the readings. Whidden’s chapters on perfection was very helpful on helping me to have a balanced view on Christian life. He mentions that there was a strong emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit after 1888. I wonder how many Seventh-day Adventists forget the fact that it is the Holy Spirit that does the transforming work in us, and give us the image of Christ’s perfection. I believe it is understandable for some people to have misunderstood some of Ellen White’s statements on perfection, because she stated that the perfection was attainable. However, misunderstanding results from quoting her out of context, instead of studying her writings extensively, and holistically. I believe examining incidents such as the one with E.R. Jones carefully will help us to know how to respond to such false claims when we encounter such incidents in the future. It is not the nature perfection that we will be achieving before the close of probation. Along with perfection, justification and sanctification are some concepts that may sound easy, but may seem very confusing to many. I appreciated Ellen White’s view on the relationship between the two. She says that conversion happens as the result of faith, and the fruit of holiness occurs in relation to it. I cannot quite fathom the art of justification, because Christ justifies us every moment we confess and repent through his gracious merits. This process is done by faithful loyalty that includes obedience and repentance. I believe it is easy to cross the line on this delicate balance, and end up on the side of legalism and perfectionism if we forget the fact that it is only the merit of Christ that can save us. Even the obedience, which shows that we have accepted Christ’s gracious merits by faith, cannot come from ourselves, but God gives it to us. It is also easy for us to make an error on perfection if we think of it in terms of absolute sinless state. However, it is not about our behavior, but about what Christ does on our behalf. The idea of sanctification also discourages the view of perfectionism, because Ellen White has stated that it is the work of a lifetime. Ellen White has stated that when the human will and divine power combine, it becomes omnipotent. I will choose to show my loyalty to Christ by confessing and repenting by faith in order that God may perfect my character more into His likeness.
I'm sorry everyone! I thought my blog wasn't being posted, so I kept trying, and 9 of the same blog has been posted. I would delete them if I could, but I do not know how. I'm sorry for the inconvenience I have caused all of you
Reading Assignment #1 - Faith and Works – root & fruit I really appreciate the discussion and clarification done in class the other day. The root of salvation refers to the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ. And the fruit of salvation refers to the righteousness of law fulfilled in us. This is a profound statement. Which is more important? Root? Or the fruit? I would say both of them are equally important. I am experiencing this concept in my backyard. I have a small vegetable garden; and I planted many different types of vegetables. Even though their shape, color, size are different, they all have something in common. They all have roots and they produce things. And I discovered that the plants that are deeply rooted in well fertilized ground grow much stronger and bear much fruit. First of all, simply roots are extremely important. They are the ones that gather all the nutrition and water from the ground and send them up to the stems and leaves. Jesus also says in John 15 that He is the Vine and we are the branches/leaves. Without the root/foundation, the plant cannot survive. That is also the case for our spiritual life. Faith without works which resulted by obedience is dead. And works by themselves are useless because we do not know where they come from. Christ has used object lessons and parables in His effective teaching and I find this method truly works in my backyard. I mentioned above that both the root and the fruit are equally important. That is only under the proper time sequence. The root part always comes first, then as a result of the law of nature, fruit is produced I see this faith-work relationship as inseparable one. They always come hand in hand; and we cannot talk one without the other. There are some examples I found in the Scriptures: Case study 1 – Ark and the flood account in Genesis 6-9. God’s salvation is demonstrated in this account. Invitations were given to everyone who lived in the land; and the message has been preached since the times of Enoch. So nearly 1000 years of invitation/warning was given to them. From reading the spirit of prophecy I found there are two different faith groups presented before the flood. First faith group has the faith that God will destroy the world with water as Noah preached for years. Second group has the faith that God will destroy the world with water as Noah preached for years. It sounds like I have repeated the same thing twice. Yes I repeated the same thing twice, but they were clearly distinguished by their works. First acted upon their faith by entering into the ark, second didn’t bother going in. Patriarchs and Prophets said that there were group of people who believed the Noah’s message, but didn’t want to do anything with it. Case Study 2 – Peter walking on water – I’m not going to talk about all the details. The important thing is that it wasn’t easy for Peter to step out of the boat first. Peter’s faith was witnessed as he took his first step out of the boat into the water. As he acted upon it, power of faith was witnessed there. And the root of his faith wasn’t from himself. When Peter took his eyes off Jesus, fruit as gone all of sudden. Root is only found in Jesus Christ. And without Him, we can do NOTHING! Case Study 3 – Manna story in Exodus 16 – God provides, and we act upon it. Even though Manna was given to them, the Israelites were not full until they woke up early to gather them and bring them home to cook and actually ate. I believe the salvation is the same thing. When Jesus came down and carried all our sins and died on the cross and resurrected from dead, the salvation was provided and made available to those who believe. However it is still our part to claim the merit of Christ. When it happens, God consider us as being justified. From there we continue to grow with the strength Christ promised us. This grow will take place eternally.
Reading Assignment #1 - Faith and Works – root & fruit * I really appreciate the discussion and clarification done in class the other day. The root of salvation refers to the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ. And the fruit of salvation refers to the righteousness of law fulfilled in us. This is a profound statement. * Which is more important? Root? Or the fruit? I would say both of them are equally important. I am experiencing this concept in my backyard. I have a small vegetable garden; and I planted many different types of vegetables. Even though their shape, color, size are different, they all have something in common. They all have roots and they produce things. And I discovered that the plants that are deeply rooted in well fertilized ground grow much stronger and bear much fruit. First of all, simply roots are extremely important. They are the ones that gather all the nutrition and water from the ground and send them up to the stems and leaves. Jesus also says in John 15 that He is the Vine and we are the branches/leaves. Without the root/foundation, the plant cannot survive. That is also the case for our spiritual life. Faith without works which resulted by obedience is dead. And works by themselves are useless because we do not know where they come from. Christ has used object lessons and parables in His effective teaching and I find this method truly works in my backyard. * I mentioned above that both the root and the fruit are equally important. That is only under the proper time sequence. The root part always comes first, then as a result of the law of nature, fruit is produced * I see this faith-work relationship as inseparable one. They always come hand in hand; and we cannot talk one without the other. There are some examples I found in the Scriptures: * Case study 1 – Ark and the flood account in Genesis 6-9. God’s salvation is demonstrated in this account. Invitations were given to everyone who lived in the land; and the message has been preached since the times of Enoch. So nearly 1000 years of invitation/warning was given to them. From reading the spirit of prophecy I found there are two different faith groups presented before the flood. First faith group has the faith that God will destroy the world with water as Noah preached for years. Second group has the faith that God will destroy the world with water as Noah preached for years. It sounds like I have repeated the same thing twice. Yes I repeated the same thing twice, but they were clearly distinguished by their works. First acted upon their faith by entering into the ark, second didn’t bother going in. Patriarchs and Prophets said that there were group of people who believed the Noah’s message, but didn’t want to do anything with it. * Case Study 2 – Peter walking on water – I’m not going to talk about all the details. The important thing is that it wasn’t easy for Peter to step out of the boat first. Peter’s faith was witnessed as he took his first step out of the boat into the water. As he acted upon it, power of faith was witnessed there. And the root of his faith wasn’t from himself. When Peter took his eyes off Jesus, fruit as gone all of sudden. Root is only found in Jesus Christ. And without Him, we can do NOTHING! * Case Study 3 – Manna story in Exodus 16 – God provides, and we act upon it. Even though Manna was given to them, the Israelites were not full until they woke up early to gather them and bring them home to cook and actually ate. I believe the salvation is the same thing. When Jesus came down and carried all our sins and died on the cross and resurrected from dead, the salvation was provided and made available to those who believe. However it is still our part to claim the merit of Christ. When it happens, God consider us as being justified. From there we continue to grow with the strength Christ promised us. This grow will take place eternally.
Reading Assignment #2 - Nature of Christ The study of Christ’s nature can be difficult and challenging topic. Indeed there are many different opinions and ideas are still shared. We cannot fully grasp this concept of Christology. SDA Bible Commentary Volume 7, p.904 says, “Man cannot define this wonderful mystery – the blending of the two natures…It can never be explained.” We may not be able to fully understand; at the same time there are some hints are given to us from the spirit of prophecy: Desire of Ages p.311-312 – “Christ reaches us where we are. He took our nature and overcame, that we through taking His nature might overcome. Made ‘in the likeness of sinful flesh,’ He lived a sinless life” – But the question is how much of sinful nature did Christ take? I was glad to be a part of discussion of human nature of Christ. There is only one human nature. But fact that sinless nature has tainted into fallen nature, it seems like there are two different natures. But it is still one human nature in two different state. Christ’s purpose for coming to earth was to solve the problem with fallen nature, this explains why Jesus took our fallen state. When the sinless creator takes hold of the fallen nature, does the fallen nature remain the same as before He took it, or does He redeem it and restore it back to its sinlessness? It is a question we must contemplate upon. The most amazing thing is that Jesus had victory in spite of its fallen state/nature Ellen White’s Manuscript releases Volume 16 Pp. 86-88, 182 talk about that in His human nature Christ conquered in behalf of the fallen race. It says, “Christ humbled Himself to the nature of man, He could be tempted. He had not taken on Him even the nature of the angels, but humanity, perfectly identical with our own nature, except without the taint of sin. A human body, a human mind, with all the peculiar properties, He was bone, brain, and muscle. A man of our flesh, He was compassed with the weakness of humanity…Our Lord was tempted as man is tempted. He was capable of yielding to temptations, as are human beings. His finite nature was pure and spotless, but the divine nature that led Him to say to Philip, “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father” neither, was not humanized; neither was humanity deified by the blending or union of the two natures; each retained its essential character and properties.“ “The divine nature, combined with the human, made Him capable of yielding to Satan’s temptations. Here the test to Christ was far greater than that of Adam and Eve, for Christ took our nature, fallen but not corrupted, and would not be corrupted unless He received the words of Satan in the place of the words of God” From the reading the Spirit of Prophecy, things made pretty clear to me. Jesus has taken both pre-fall & post-fall of humanity. Jesus did not have propensity to sin like Adam and Eve; however He has taken much weaker body and will of mankind. And He has overcome them. This is mysterious science I’ve ever seen. And this will be studied in heaven eternally.
Reading Assignment #3 – Perfection After hearing the lecture on perfection in class, it made me think about the concept of perfection. Until now, my understanding of perfection was slightly different. I am glad that we have spent some time in class to discuss this topic fully. Before I share my own opinions, I would like to summarize what we’ve discussed in class regarding perfection: 1) Important thing about perfection – whose perfection is it? We know that we can never reach “the perfection” on our own. Therefore it has to be the perfection of God 2) If I were to categorize, there are three categories in the salvation process: 1) Justification, 2) Sanctification, and 3) Glorification. And there is perfection found in each process. 3) Perfection in Justification – this perfection is given to us through justification. God clothes us in the garment of Jesus’ righteousness. So our nakedness is covered by His righteousness and His righteousness become ours. We are perfect in Jesus Christ’s righteousness. 4) Perfection in Sanctification – this is perfection growth which is perfect at every stage. God is satisfied with me because I am not what I used to be. And I am not yet what I am going to be. Thanks to the Lord for God is satisfied with me. God accepts me does not mean I should be satisfied with who I am. We must move forward highter ground. 5) Perfection in Glorification – Ever increasing of glory of God’s perfection, which belongs only to Him, but given to us through His grace. This perfection process is described in Philippians 1:6 - it says, “For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus. This passage indicates that there’s no end point in the process of perfection. And the perfection only comes from God. Here is another text that talks about perfection – “Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.” There are only a few times that the Bible use the terminology “Will of God” – this is one of will of God that we strive to become perfect. “Justification often defined perfection and always formed the foundation of the experience of sanctification. Sanctification often defined perfection, but at the same time perfection was always the goal of sanctification” (Ellen White on Salvation P. 119) So what lesions can we learn from the topic of perfection. The most perfect example of “perfection” can be only found in Jesus. He is the only one who was absolutely perfect. In fact, Ellen White described those who claimed to be “equal with Him in perfection of character” as committing “blasphemy”. And God is fair and just. We can never reach the point where Jesus was on earth. However, Christ has offered us the strength to be like Him when we accept His invitation. And outcome of that process is being viewed as perfect by our heavenly father. When this process of perfection takes place, you would not know, but others will know. The more time I spend with God, I realized I’m such a wicked sinner and I need Christ.
Paul Muniz 4th Blog Perfection - Holiness - Sanctification
said...
Perfection and holiness are two words that are often misunderstood and misused, especially within the Christian circles. Edward Heppenstall, in his article on perfection, sheds light unto this subject. He points out that no one has ever obtain perfection, even the Apostles and the early Christian founders struggled with such and gave witness to their sinfulness. From his perspective he is promoting the idea that the early church leaders were reserved when it came to such. Furthermore, that the only perfect sinless being, who had the right to make such claim, was Jesus. I believe that most followers of Christ would agree with such account. This article as well at the book titled “Ellen White on Salvation” gave me further insights into the misunderstandings pertaining to holiness and perfection.
For starters there are other words and or phrase that are use to convey a similar meaning that are stressed in the words perfection and holiness, such as in the word sanctification. A quick definition of such implies separation, set apart, consecrated. It further entails the process by which one’s character is transformed. The essence is that there is a change from a sinful condition to a sanctified condition, from injustice to justice (Rom 6:19).
I believe that this is where the confusion sets in, thus leading to conclusions that open the door to legalism. It appears that the idea of holiness (as a synonym for sanctification) and its process, which is initiated when a person first comes to Christ, is considered perfection. And as such that it is a “completed” process of holiness. While there is “some” level of truth in this we must be careful and consider its implications. As Ellen White experienced in her days many were making declarations of a “sinless” life (perfection), which later was proven to be the contrary. The mere fact that one makes such declarations should be cause for concern. A sinless being would not boast in their ability and or their condition of being. This is pride. As we read scripture we see various times where pride lead to destruction (2 Chr. 25:19, 32:25; Ps. 15:25; Proverbs 16:5). The opposite should be what is manifested in the believer, a life of humbleness. Is this not what Jesus demonstrated? As a matter of fact He was not careless with His spirituality. As we know he would pray daily and often retreat for prayer and fasting. We see that he too was tempted, but due to the power of the Holy Spirit He disarmed Satan.
As I am coming to understand this idea of holiness it is a process and one that leads to perfection. This will be completely fulfilled in the seconding coming of Christ. At this point in our life journey, when we have come to Christ, we are “justified” – just as if we had never sinned. This is not by our doing, but through the works of Christ himself. It is at this moment that our sanctified journey begins, this is the path to perfection, which gives rise to a lifestyle of “less” sin, but not “sinless”. This entire process involves the Holy Spirit, the Son and the Father, but we too have a part in such. It says in Desire of Ages, “All true obedience comes from the heart. It was heart work with Christ. And if we consent, He will so identify Himself with our thoughts and aims, so blend our hearts and minds into conformity to His will, that when obeying Him we shall be but carrying our own impulses” (668). And the post-1888 expression says, “Imperceptibly to ourselves, we are changed day by day from our own ways and will into the ways and will of Christ, into the loveliness of his character. Thus we grow up into Christ, and unconsciously reflect His image” (RH, Apr. 28,1891). We are sanctified and soon we will be perfectly sinless.
Paul Muniz 4th Blog Perfection - Holiness - Sanctification
said...
Perfection and holiness are two words that are often misunderstood and misused, especially within the Christian circles. Edward Heppenstall, in his article on perfection, sheds light unto this subject. He points out that no one has ever obtain perfection, even the Apostles and the early Christian founders struggled with such and gave witness to their sinfulness. From his perspective he is promoting the idea that the early church leaders were reserved when it came to such. Furthermore, that the only perfect sinless being, who had the right to make such claim, was Jesus. I believe that most followers of Christ would agree with such account. This article as well at the book titled “Ellen White on Salvation” gave me further insights into the misunderstandings pertaining to holiness and perfection. For starters there are other words and or phrase that are use to convey a similar meaning that are stressed in the words perfection and holiness, such as in the word sanctification. A quick definition of such implies separation, set apart, consecrated. It further entails the process by which one’s character is transformed. The essence is that there is a change from a sinful condition to a sanctified condition, from injustice to justice (Rom 6:19). I believe that this is where the confusion sets in, thus leading to conclusions that open the door to legalism. It appears that the idea of holiness (as a synonym for sanctification) and its process, which is initiated when a person first comes to Christ, is considered perfection. And as such that it is a “completed” process of holiness. While there is “some” level of truth in this we must be careful and consider its implications. As Ellen White experienced in her days many were making declarations of a “sinless” life (perfection), which later was proven to be the contrary. The mere fact that one makes such declarations should be cause for concern. A sinless being would not boast in their ability and or their condition of being. This is pride! As we read scripture we see various times where pride lead to destruction (2 Chr. 25:19, 32:25; Ps. 15:25; Proverbs 16:5). The opposite should be what is manifested in the believer, a life of humbleness. Is this not what Jesus demonstrated? As a matter of fact He was not careless with His spirituality. As we know he would pray daily and often retreat for prayer and fasting. We see that he too was tempted, but due to the power of the Holy Spirit He disarmed Satan. As I am coming to understand this idea of holiness it is a process and one that leads to perfection. This will be completely fulfilled in the seconding coming of Christ. At this point in our life journey, when we have come to Christ, we are “justified”–just as if we had never sinned. This is not by our doing, but through the works of Christ himself. It is at this moment that our sanctified journey begins, this is the path to perfection, which gives rise to a lifestyle of “less” sin, but not “sinless”. This entire process involves the Holy Spirit, the Son and the Father, but we too have a part in such. It says in Desire of Ages, “All true obedience comes from the heart. It was heart work with Christ. And if we consent, He will so identify Himself with our thoughts and aims, so blend our hearts and minds into conformity to His will, that when obeying Him we shall be but carrying our own impulses” (668). And the post-1888 expression says, “Imperceptibly to ourselves, we are changed day by day from our own ways and will into the ways and will of Christ, into the loveliness of his character. Thus we grow up into Christ, and unconsciously reflect His image” (RH, Apr. 28,1891). We are sanctified and soon we will be perfectly sinless.
Paul Muniz 4th Blog Perfection - Holiness - Sanctification
said...
Perfection & holiness words that are often misunderstood and misused. Edward Heppenstall, in his article on perfection, sheds light on this subject. He points out that no one has ever obtain perfection, even the Apostles and early Christian founders struggled and gave witness to their sinfulness. Furthermore, that the only perfect sinless being, who had the right to make such claim, was Jesus. I believe that most followers of Christ would agree with such account. This article as well at the book titled “Ellen White on Salvation” gave me further insights into the misunderstandings pertaining to holiness and perfection. For starters there are other words and or phrase that are use to convey a similar meaning that are stressed in the words perfection and holiness, such as in the word sanctification. A quick definition of such implies separation, set apart, consecrated. It further entails the process by which one’s character is transformed. The essence is that there is a change from a sinful condition to a sanctified condition, from injustice to justice (Rom 6:19). I believe that this is where the confusion sets in, thus leading to conclusions that open the door to legalism. It appears that the idea of holiness (as a synonym for sanctification) and its process, which is initiated when a person first comes to Christ, is considered perfection. And as such that it is a “completed” process of holiness. While there is “some” level of truth in this we must be careful and consider its implications. As Ellen White experienced in her days many were making declarations of a “sinless” life (perfection), which later was proven to be the contrary. The mere fact that one makes such declarations should be cause for concern. A sinless being would not boast in their ability and or their condition of being. This is pride! As we read scripture we see various times where pride lead to destruction (2 Chr. 25:19, 32:25; Ps. 15:25; Proverbs 16:5). The opposite should be what is manifested in the believer, a life of humbleness. Is this not what Jesus demonstrated? As a matter of fact He was not careless with His spirituality. As we know he would pray daily and often retreat for prayer and fasting. We see that he too was tempted, but due to the power of the Holy Spirit He disarmed Satan. As I am coming to understand this idea of holiness it is a process and one that leads to perfection. This will be completely fulfilled in the seconding coming of Christ. At this point in our life journey, when we have come to Christ, we are “justified”–just as if we had never sinned. This is not by our doing, but through the works of Christ himself. Its at this stage that our sanctified journey begins; the path to perfection, which gives rise to a lifestyle of “less” sin, but not “sinless”. This entire process involves the Trinity, but we too have a part in such. It says in Desire of Ages, “All true obedience comes from the heart. It was heart work with Christ. And if we consent, He will so identify Himself with our thoughts and aims, so blend our hearts and minds into conformity to His will, that when obeying Him we shall be but carrying our own impulses” (668). And the post-1888 expression says, “Imperceptibly to ourselves, we are changed day by day from our own ways and will into the ways and will of Christ, into the loveliness of his character. Thus we grow up into Christ, and unconsciously reflect His image” (RH, Apr. 28,1891). We are sanctified and soon we will be perfectly sinless.
Perfection & holiness words that are often misunderstood and misused. Edward Heppenstall article on perfection, points out that no one has ever obtain perfection, even the Apostles and early Christian founders struggled and gave witness to their sinfulness. Furthermore, that the only perfect sinless being, who had the right to make such claim, was Jesus. I believe that most followers of Christ would agree with such account. This article as well at the book titled “Ellen White on Salvation” gave me further insights into the misunderstandings pertaining to holiness and perfection. For starters there are other words and or phrase that are use to convey a similar meaning that are stressed in the words perfection and holiness, such as in the word sanctification. A quick definition of such implies separation, set apart, consecrated. It further entails the process by which one’s character is transformed. The essence is that there is a change from a sinful condition to a sanctified condition, from injustice to justice (Rom 6:19). I believe that this is where the confusion sets in, thus leading to conclusions that open the door to legalism. It appears that the idea of holiness (as a synonym for sanctification) and its process, which is initiated when a person first comes to Christ, is considered perfection. And as such that it is a “completed” process of holiness. While there is “some” level of truth in this we must be careful and consider its implications. As Ellen White experienced in her days many were making declarations of a “sinless” life (perfection), which later was proven to be the contrary. The mere fact that one makes such declarations should be cause for concern. A sinless being would not boast in their ability and or their condition of being. This is pride! As we read scripture we see various times where pride lead to destruction (2 Chr. 25:19, 32:25; Ps. 15:25; Proverbs 16:5). The opposite should be what is manifested in the believer, a life of humbleness. Is this not what Jesus demonstrated? As a matter of fact He was not careless with His spirituality. As we know he would pray daily and often retreat for prayer and fasting. We see that he too was tempted, but due to the power of the Holy Spirit He disarmed Satan. As I am coming to understand this idea of holiness it is a process and one that leads to perfection. This will be completely fulfilled in the seconding coming of Christ. At this point in our life journey, when we have come to Christ, we are “justified”–just as if we had never sinned. This is not by our doing, but through the works of Christ himself. Its at this stage that our sanctified journey begins; the path to perfection, which gives rise to a lifestyle of “less” sin, but not “sinless”. This entire process involves the Trinity, but we too have a part in such. It says in Desire of Ages, “All true obedience comes from the heart. It was heart work with Christ. And if we consent, He will so identify Himself with our thoughts and aims, so blend our hearts and minds into conformity to His will, that when obeying Him we shall be but carrying our own impulses” (668). And the post-1888 expression says, “Imperceptibly to ourselves, we are changed day by day from our own ways and will into the ways and will of Christ, into the loveliness of his character. Thus we grow up into Christ, and unconsciously reflect His image” (RH, Apr. 28,1891). We are sanctified and soon we will be perfectly sinless.
Response to Michael Taylor 1st reflection posting:
Michael you stated, "One thing bugs me about many of our (that’s a corporate “our", implicating the whole Church) presentations to outsiders is that we often start our study at an intermediate level. That is, we tend to assume that our contacts already know the basics of salvation and Christ, and it’s just our job to straighten out a few bad doctrines."
I admit that I too find it a bit troubling. However, what I also find troubling is the idea that "we" think "it's just our job to straighten out a few bad doctrines". I believe that my job is to present the truth and then let the Holy Spirit do its job. I have discovered that the Holy Spirit is better at convincing people than I am. So, I embrace you thoughts on the things that "bugs me" and add some more food for thought. Blessings
Thomas I agree with your statement that "perfection needs some more clarification and attention". I believe that we approach a Godly thing with a human perspective and attempt to understand something so divine, in our limited state of mind, that it leads to lots of misunderstandings.
I also like the way you ended your blog. We are in a class, learning day by day, growing little by little. And one day we shall hear the trumpet and then the voice...
Brother, what a glorious day that will be!!! May we all keep on learning. Blessings
Alex, it is about balance, and harmony, peace, and love towards all humanity. If we could only be more like that there just might be a different world, and less judging and condemning. Maybe, like Rodney King (the guy who was beaten during the LA riots) suggested, We would "all get along". Thanks for your words of encouragement. Blessings
Ricardo, your comments are very thought provoking. I was especially moved by your comments on the Voodoo doctor being saved. I also found interesting your comment about how we respond. I too believe that we could be a hinderance, more like a tool that aids Satan in slowly deteriorating the faith that others have, including ours. Lord help us to be humble and mindful that Jesus is the way and the truth and that no one will enter unless it is through Him. Praise your Holy name!
I truly enjoyed reading your post it pointed out that we will always be wrestling with the sin issue. I think the way you put it was less sin not sinless, i like that its too bad we look at sin in such a legalistic way, but God looks at the heart and He will take it away little by little until we are in heaven, blessings
I agree that the Health is very important because its takes care of the vessel by which we communicate with God, Ellen white said the health message is closely associated with the 3angles messagae, cleaner pipes means a cleaner sound, you know what i mean, coming from an out of shape dude that says alot, sometimes that sin i cant preach and teach about efectively, another reason why health is important Rico
We as SDA like to talk about our church being the remnant church, and we somehow are a little proud of that fact, but somehow we overlook the fact that Gods remnant church also interacts with people with with Gods remnant attitude.
what does that mean?
The Bible makes it very clear that during the time of Jesus ministry on earth Gods chosen people(remnant) were not acting like it. Jesus once told his listeners to do what they say but dont act as they do, so we see that they had the doctrines correct, they knew who God was, they knew his name, they knew his prophets, they even had His law but they didnt have his attitude towards people that he told them to have. The Jews were supposed to show the world who God is, they were to do in a much lesser way what Jesus did completely, show God to people.
Had the people God called out to represent Him, His remnant, only taken the time to get to know Him, they would have never been cut off and a world would have longed to know the God of the Jews, but instead they had the rules right, they had the name right, they had the god right but the attitude was wrong thus they(as a nation) were excluded from that group of remanat that Jesus is coming back for.
SDA(as a denomination) today as i see it, can easily fall into that same category of remnant. Its easy for us to look at our denomination and say oh we got it right, our doctrines are Biblically sound, our health message is second to none, and when you join the SDA church for most people thier situation just imporves all the way around, financially, educationally, and status. but if with all the blessings that come from observing Gods commands and living under His banner is not accompanied with the correct attitude it excludes you from the remnant, especially the SDA remnant because this church was given a remnant message and if your not actively involved in proclaiming it verbally and with your lifestyle in a way that Jesus would do it then you need to get on board.
You know as SDA we really shouldnt be proud of our remnant status we should be humbled that we have an opportunity to join those that God has entrusted this end time remnant message, and hope and pray that He never has to do with us like He did with them(Jewish Nation) because of thier attitude.
I really enjoyed the class that talked about the Invisible Remnant(IR) and the Visible Remnant(VR) I always knew there was something missing but I just couldnt put it to words. Remnant was remnant, no IR and VR but now I can clearly see through scripture that when the visible remnant messes up and are not accomplishing His will, God always has an Invisible remnant ready to step in and show thier is no compromising with God, through the spirit or the letter and in the end when Jesus comes to take his remnant home, there will only be one, and those visible that refuse to co-operate completely with the spirit they will willingly drop out and the invisible will become visible,
I like the way pulled out the point that it is just as important to have a practical working personal knowledge of how salvation works in our own life, as well as a theological one it goes hand in hand good post
I am still intrigued with the nature of christ. I am not totally sure when He redeemed human nature its always on my mind but reading post like yours helps me grapple with it
The class has been wonderful and very thought provoking, it seems that no matter what subject we go into we always end up with the topic of salvation and perfection and rightly so since the class was about salvation.
It was good to see that one of my favorite texts was used when helping us to understand salvation and perfection. Phillipians 3:12-14 this is an amazing text to me because as you read it, when you consider the author and how much his writings have contributed to the New Testament it becomes crystal clear that salvation lyes in one man(Jesus Christ) and so does Perfection.
I believe most christians get it wrong because we dont press toward christ, we think that, as was stated in class perfection is a destination not a life long process, a journey, perfection happens in the daily pressing to the mark of Jesus christ, when we do this daily we are being perfected in Him, and the closer we get to Him the more we realize our imperfections, so a perfect person will never think themselves perfect because they will always have a true perfect example before them, that they will never attain,
who shall deliver me from this wretched state of being im in? the perfect example you are pressing toward thats who, Jesus is the answer all the way around, and it is even him that works in us to will and to do of his good pleasure, to do his will, to want to do His will.
statement from class: How do we evaluate perfection? Perfection means never being satisfied----always pressing on toward the mark of Jesus Christ this is one reason why we must introduce people to Jesus- so they can have the joy we have in Christ, in knowing where thier salvation comes from, in having assurance that thier salvation will be realized in them irregardless of thier current condition if they rest in Jesus
Reflection #1 “The Development of Salvation” In the book, “Ellen G. White on Salvation” I was able to take a closer look at Mrs. White’s life and her experience in her walk with Jesus more closer. Her walk with God helped me to understand her development of the issue of Salvation before 1888. I find it fascinated how from her experience in the Methodist church’s teachings, the issue of salvation is triggered. Not only that, but also the teachings of Miller in that time arose the question of her salvation. For me it was fascinating to see how Ellen G. White not only wrote about Salvation but also in her writings describes her growing experience through her personal convictions; trying to answer the question, “Am I going to be saved?” The more she searched, the more she noticed that no one is perfect, that perfection comes from being in Jesus perfection. I find it quite interesting how Ellen, before 1888, began confronting people who had the idea of perfectionism. In my reading in Whidden’s book, I did not expect to find these types of people in her time. I always had the idea, that these types of people came later in the 20th century. But for some reason she confronted them, yet I know it wasn’t a coincidence, it was what was going to help her define what is known as justification by faith. In class we covered this topic. I have enjoyed seeing how the word perfect is used. Before, I would think that no one was perfect. In society, we hear this a lot, and also in our churches, but now, we had to stop and think to ask, “What kind of perfection are we talking about.” Christ’s perfection, like taught in class, written in Whidden’s book and in the Article entitled, ‘Justification in Romans 3:21-24.
Reflection #2 “Foreknowledge, Predestination and Calling…” In the reading of Whidden’s book, chapters 4-8, the author spoke a little about doctrines that had impact on Ellen G. White’s writings. One of those doctrines was that of human nature. In her time, there was the Calvinistic view ever since humans fell into sin, sin overpowered them to the point that they couldn’t come back out of their sin, and the only way to be saved is through the initiative of God on the human race to take them out of sin. This comes close, or about the same, as Augustine’s teaching on human nature. He believed that those that fell into sin, lost their sense of making the right choice; since before sin, they had power to make the right choice. Now since man sinned, their power was taken away and human are powerless against sin, and the only way to be saved would be by God’s grace. Now the grace, as said by Augustine, that God gives, he gives when he chooses. Since, he has freedom to choose, and then he already knows those that will be saved. In a lot of studies, it seems that many don’t make the distinction between foreknowledge and predestination. In the article entitled, “Predestination, Foreknowledge, and Human Freedom,” the author makes the distinction between these three. He goes on to show how foreknowledge is where God identifies the problem, yet he doesn’t act upon it right away and forces his plan upon others, as though it’s one process. Rather, after foreseeing the problem, he moves into predestination, which is creating a strategic plan that will solve the problem that is foreknown. After creating the plan, this is where God calls out to everyone, in a specific way, for specific things, in which all of us become part of this plan for reconciliation for the lost human race. This too, we learned in class, the distinctions between the three, but the connection between the three.
Reflection #3 “The Mysteries of God & Legal Universal Justification” I read an article the other day entitled, “Some Problems with Legal Universal Justification.” When reading this article, I was amaze to see that there is a lot more teachings out there that I’m not even aware of, that are simply place together to fit a specific belief. I find it amazing how today, in our day and age; we all look to find answers to the bibles toughest questions. Sometimes I think that man cannot handle mystery; or the curiosity kills them so much that they do all they can to find an answer to whatever mystery there is. Like for instance Christ’s identity or the Sanctuary in heaven. We can come up with the closest answer, but we won’t know the fullest understanding until we get to heaven. This reminds me of a time when I was in Africa in 2003. A man came up to me the following day after a night of evangelistic series. He handed me a paper, and on that paper he had mapped out a time line and the explanation on Christ’s second coming (I think I still have that paper). In the article he wrote, he pin pointed the exact year that Christ was going to come. In his argument, he starts out by showing Jesus lineage and lineage after Christ’s, then he uses math of these lineages and texts to pin point the day, month, and year. I was amazed at his research. I asked him about the text which mentions not one will know the time or day, neither Jesus. But His argument was that we can figure it out because there is enough information to find out. I always wonder when I read articles like these, “Why can’t people leave the mysteries to God; and wait until we take class 101 from Moses, or Enoch, or Elijah?” In the article by Manuel Rodriguez, I learned that Legal Universal Justification is justification that spreads to everyone; which implies even the unborn. They take on the position that Christ’s death was a shared substitution; that implies that humans take part in the glory of the cross. All these statements undermine that first we need a savior and not to seek ourselves. Secondly, justification is that which is freely provide, but to those that seek God; are with God, and in God’s presence. Like explain in class, under the umbrella.
Reflection #4 “God’s Love to Save” In the article entitled, “Why Did Jesus Die? How God Saves Us,” I came across the topic of ‘The Ransom Price’ which many would say that is the view Jesus’ death on the cross. This article poses a good question, “If it is ransom, then who collected the ransom money?” The belief behind all of this is that when Adam and Eve fell into sin, they had given away soul to the devil. Because of this, God now has to pay the price for the sin on earth, in order to gain back the lives of Eve. This story of how Christ’s death is seen as a ransom is interesting and very problematic. Just by reading the article, it made me ask whether or not God had to pay anything to Satan; in the sense that they fell into sin, yet sin is not Satan or it belongs to Satan, so the victory of sin is not paid to Satan. Since sin is a difficult topic to understand, we won’t understand this concept fully if we don’t know the complete understanding of sin. In a way paying something because of sin does make sense, because God had told Adam and Eve, that if they were to eat of the tree that they were going to die. So God’s plan included a substitute/ sacrifice, to take on that price of sin, so that others could live. Another thing that comes to mind when thinking of the Ransom model is ‘if Christ had to pay, then that would imply that he was in a sense fulfilling an obligation; instead of taking initiation without the obligation.’ I could be wrong. But when reading Peter’s letters, it seem that when God knew what was going to happen before He created everything, he already had it in His mind to freely initiate the plan of Salvation. There wasn’t a second thought, just the power of love that He possessed.
Jonathan I was moved by your statements about the balance that needs to be achieved within the relationship of grace and the law. Yours was the most practical approach I’ve heard to date on the subject. I enjoyed particularly the notion you created on the subject of balance. I too believe that balance is a necessary characteristic for fruitful scriptural pursuit. From your comments I imagine a seesaw phenomena. In this case the mutual back and forth is not the desired pleasure but rather a more fixed equilibrium is favored. The problem with our church, to put it so bluntly, comes from our lack dynamism. This is known as an ability to maintain balance in spite of the bombardment of external stimuli. It is our duty of be constantly aware of when that balance is in danger and to mitigate the proper response. I would like to add to your observation that the Spirits role in this is not perfunctory by any means but as the main and only guide we have to preserve this balance. He brings us Christ’s’ balance in a world of constant stimuli. This is what kept Christ so incredibly edgy and relevant.
I enjoyed your comments on Salvation. I too think that people tend to frame salvation as being too simple or too complicated. We want so much to understand salvation within our way of life that it’s often stretched from the most polar opposites to fit into our thinking. I believe that the most beautiful aspect of the story of salvation is its transforming power. To be clear, I mean it’s intrinsic saving power but more so it’s ambient saving power. I find that as one considers the story of salvation just that act alone creates transformation of the soul. It’s like a radioactive element where sheer exposure to it changes your chemistry. One issue I wanted to address was minor but I thought important enough not to ignore. Its on the statement you made of our power of choice being corrupt. I would like to submit that though our natures are indeed corrupt our power of choice couldn’t be corrupt. I venture to say that this aspect of us is a divine aspect. A blueprint if you will of what things should have been like. It is our corrupt nature that keeps us in bondage. Remember Paul’s statements about wanting to do good but not being able to do good. This is the divine imprint on you corrupt selves seeking for it’s full expression. We were created in God’s image in that we having the power to choose and procreate thus share in some of God’s functions but sin corrupted our interaction with these divine characteristics in their proper context.
Delvin Frazer The discussion on atonement gave me an understanding on Christ mercy and grace in that he covers our sins as he reconciled us back to God. It is said that atonement means Christ provided reconciliation for us by offering himself as an ultimate sacrificial lamb for humanity. His atonement accomplished what the temporary sacrificial system in the Old Testament would not ultimately achieve without Christ death and resurrection from the grave. While Old Testament requires spotless lamb and different types of animal brought to the high priest forgiveness of sin on the Day of Atonement. The bible teaches that it was a typology of God’s plan of salvation for his people and their remission of sin, but the power to forgive comes from Christ by way of the priest presenting the nation guilt or sins before God in the most holy place. The apostle Paul made reference to Christ atonement throughout is letters especially to the church Corinth in 1 Corinthian 15:3-4, “For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures. “ Paul is making reference to Christ victory over sin and death that we might obtain eternal life as dead daily to sin. Christ became incarnate in order that He should die for human sin. Whether or not the Son of God would have become Incarnate if man had not sinned, we do not know, nor do we intend to speculate. It is sufficient for us to know that it was sin which made the Cross a must in the experience of the Son of God. According to Ellen White in her book on salvation, Christ’s intercessory work was clearly viewed as being a part of the atonement. His heavenly intercession makes the implications of the cross effective for believers. As the history of God’s dealing with the sin problem unfolds, Christ applies the benefits wrought out on the cross manifest both mercy and judgment.” Christ is our advocate for what the law, lamb and doves could not accomplished he did by subjecting himself to death on the cross. He is our eternal sacrificial lamb and savior of humanity. As it said in class that the cross must occupy the central place because it is the means of man’s atonement and because of the influence it exerts on every part of God’s divine government. Furthermore, it is more than being a central place but it is the divine compass that bridges sinners to with their God to have a mutual communicate with a holy God.
Delvin Frazer The discussion on atonement gave me an understanding on Christ mercy and grace in that he covers our sins as he reconciled us back to God. It is said that atonement means Christ provided reconciliation for us by offering himself as an ultimate sacrificial lamb for humanity. His atonement accomplished what the temporary sacrificial system in the Old Testament would not ultimately achieve without Christ death and resurrection from the grave. While Old Testament requires spotless lamb and different types of animal brought to the high priest forgiveness of sin on the Day of Atonement. The bible teaches that it was a typology of God’s plan of salvation for his people and their remission of sin, but the power to forgive comes from Christ by way of the priest presenting the nation guilt or sins before God in the most holy place. The apostle Paul made reference to Christ atonement throughout is letters especially to the church Corinth in 1 Corinthian 15:3-4, “For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures. “ Paul is making reference to Christ victory over sin and death that we might obtain eternal life as dead daily to sin. Christ became incarnate in order that He should die for human sin. Whether or not the Son of God would have become Incarnate if man had not sinned, we do not know, nor do we intend to speculate. It is sufficient for us to know that it was sin which made the Cross a must in the experience of the Son of God. According to Ellen White in her book on salvation, Christ’s intercessory work was clearly viewed as being a part of the atonement. His heavenly intercession makes the implications of the cross effective for believers. As the history of God’s dealing with the sin problem unfolds, Christ applies the benefits wrought out on the cross manifest both mercy and judgment.” Christ is our advocate for what the law, lamb and doves could not accomplished he did by subjecting himself to death on the cross. He is our eternal sacrificial lamb and savior of humanity. As it said in class that the cross must occupy the central place because it is the means of man’s atonement and because of the influence it exerts on every part of God’s divine government. Furthermore, it is more than being a central place but it is the divine compass that bridges sinners to with their God to have a mutual communicate with a holy God.
Delvin Frazer The discussion on atonement gave me an understanding on Christ mercy and grace in that he covers our sins as he reconciled us back to God. It is said that atonement means Christ provided reconciliation for us by offering himself as an ultimate sacrificial lamb for humanity. His atonement accomplished what the temporary sacrificial system in the Old Testament would not ultimately achieve without Christ death and resurrection from the grave. While Old Testament requires spotless lamb and different types of animal brought to the high priest forgiveness of sin on the Day of Atonement. The bible teaches that it was a typology of God’s plan of salvation for his people and their remission of sin, but the power to forgive comes from Christ by way of the priest presenting the nation guilt or sins before God in the most holy place. The apostle Paul made reference to Christ atonement throughout is letters especially to the church Corinth in 1 Corinthian 15:3-4, “For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures. “ Paul is making reference to Christ victory over sin and death that we might obtain eternal life as dead daily to sin. Christ became incarnate in order that He should die for human sin. Whether or not the Son of God would have become Incarnate if man had not sinned, we do not know, nor do we intend to speculate. It is sufficient for us to know that it was sin which made the Cross a must in the experience of the Son of God. According to Ellen White in her book on salvation, Christ’s intercessory work was clearly viewed as being a part of the atonement. His heavenly intercession makes the implications of the cross effective for believers. As the history of God’s dealing with the sin problem unfolds, Christ applies the benefits wrought out on the cross manifest both mercy and judgment.” Christ is our advocate for what the law, lamb and doves could not accomplished he did by subjecting himself to death on the cross. He is our eternal sacrificial lamb and savior of humanity. As it said in class that the cross must occupy the central place because it is the means of man’s atonement and because of the influence it exerts on every part of God’s divine government. Furthermore, it is more than being a central place but it is the divine compass that bridges sinners to with their God to have a mutual communicate with a holy God.
Delvin Frazer Romans 8:17 (NKJV) And if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him (Christ), that we may also be glorified together.
The theme of suffering and glory is a familiar one in New Testament thought. It is based on the conviction that the believers must follow the same route and receive the same reward that Christ received. In Romans, Paul is convicted that suffering with Christ is sharing the same spiritual journey as Christ did in his ministry. Paul regards suffering "with Christ" as an unavoidable aspect of being "in Christ." Our conformity to Christ requires ongoing suffering "with Christ." It is to be noted that suffering "with Christ" is not the same as being baptized into Christ's death. The latter idea refers to our incorporation into Christ through faith. The idea is rather the inescapable activity of suffering with and for Christ that ensues upon our incorporation into Christ. These ongoing sufferings of Christ embodied now in believers must be redemptive, just as were Christ's sufferings on the cross. Our suffering "with Christ" is, like Christ's suffering, experienced on behalf of God's creation. The hope of believers--the hope of sharing in the glory of God (5:2)--is at the same time the hope of release from all travail. While we suffer now, we do so with a certain confidence, for Christ's resurrection and glorification assures us of our own resurrection. Because of God's love, seen most clearly in Jesus Christ, whom God gave up for us all (8:32), we then suffer in hope, and so our suffering is limited by the certainty that we are being "conformed to the image of [God's] son" (8:29). Just as Christ Jesus, the revealer of God's love (8:39), knew both suffering and glorification, so do we. We suffer knowing that the outcome of suffering is glory and so we will receive "all things with [Christ Jesus]" (8:32). Struggling and suffering are a refining process through which every believer must pass. It forces us to trust in God. He pulls away our false securities. It enlarges, purifies, expands and ennobles the believer. It makes us more like what we will be like when we actually see Jesus face to face. Hurts pains persecutions are used by God to get our attention.
Your thought provoking remarks gave me a quite a bit of wrestling mentally. I haven’t read the article yet but I plan to and I hope to gain some more insight but for now I would like to contribute to your thoughts and maybe help out in reaching a clearer understanding. I would have to agree that the ransom model presents some question marks that are not easily settled. The sort of self-propagated cause and effect dynamic that God seems to create seems at best perfunctory. That said, it would be good to remember that our minds our so infinitely limited and that His ways are far above our understanding. While this reminder serves as a good tether for our theological review it does not abate the plausibility of such a view. And if were not careful to reach some understanding this could undermine our interpretation of the plan of salvation. So…could we sensible make such a claim of God: that He created a vacuum for love that only He could satisfy. Possibly. The discomfort ensues when we attempt to define that possibility. Pretension appears to be one of the accusations. The only problem is simplistically complex; could we find any platform from which to judge divine prerogative. Even Job had to learn through a number of unmerciful questions on the ways of divinity. His famous answer remains as the best reply to such an onslaught of question.
Response # 4 To: MRamirez Reflection# 3 Mysteries of God & Legal Universal Justification
I could understand your frustration. I think it came to me when I saw what limits mankind are willing to face to explain and propagate evolution. They are so quarrelsome and anxious they can even debunk each other from their paranoia and unsettled curiosity. The zest and zeal that religious scholars bring to their debates are too a source for vitriol and pride. I read somewhere that science is a Latin word meaning to know. Very simple definition if you ask me. In the case of human beings it seems one must add to this definition: -at all cost to humanity and its subordinates. I should balance my statements by saying that we have a privilege to created in the image of God. One of the most distinct characteristics of this privilege is knowledge. And certainly our brain has the capacity to take in quite a bit of information. God however is limitless and as our creator far more than we will ever think to need. I think what can sometimes drive these apologists of either camp is a desire to explain God. All created beings, especially us, must happily abide in our destiny to be eternally pursuers of the knowledge of God. This knowledge is not a mere quantitative endeavor but the experiential lifeblood of fulfilling our highest purpose…worshiping Him.
response:Vladimir Isaac Assignment3 Appreciate your post. It was like a brief synopsis of the great controversy early scenes in heaven. You set a wonderful background of how content Lucifer should have been and how erroneous his rebellion was. It was vividly clear when you stated “Christ on the cross has taken away his royal garment to dress with the dirtiest dress ever for our sake.” This statement shows the awesomeness of God’s love and the lengths He was willing to take to safe man. The post makes it clear that salvation the action of save took place in heaven in that the God head didn’t just sit around but took action to save man.
Richard Cahoun Romans 15 Romans 15 paints a beautiful picture of everyday life of the Christian walk. Verse one states that the strong should help bear the infirmities of the week and not seek to please ourselves. This is the completely the opposite of what the world tells us. The world tells us look out for number one because as Darwinism states it’s the survival of the fittest and only the strong survive. I like how Paul points out that this Is what Jesus did he was a burden barer an up lifter of the broken and the down trodden. Paul is saying to me, care for your broken brother is not just some good thing to do its, not some Boy Scout honor it is Christ like and as a Christian I should be striving for Christ-like-ness. Further in the chapter he lets the reader know that your brother means all your brothers and that this love God has put in your heart ought to be bigger than this Jew Gentile thing. Paul also reminds us that we don’t help begrudgingly but we should be overjoyed to be used as a tool in the masters hand in helping to rebuild those who are broken.
Romans 10 Romans 10 brings out some wonderful and unfortunately often forgotten points on salvation. Paul stars by letting the reader know that he wants people to come to a saving knowledge of Jesus. Then he identifies the hiccup in some people’s attempt. They have zeal of God and they have righteousness but it’s their own righteousness and they have not submitted to Gods righteousness. Here we are faced with a spiritual conundrum, it is possible to have an earnest zeal for God but yet not submit to his righteousness? Fortunate for us the chapter does not end there. Paul states that the end or fulfillment of the Law is Jesus and that Moses describe the righteous of the law. Here Paul is taking us deeper if you stop here some come to the conclusion that the Law has been done away with through Jesus. It seems that what Paul is addressing is people focusing on what they can do instead of what Jesus ahs done for them. They are focusing on the Method instead of the Methodologist, Focusing on the way instead of the Way-maker, focused on who you were instead of whose you were. So Paul refocuses the brethren For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Verse 13. Then paul states a need that no pastor of any denomination ever has any problem understanding and there is pretty much no debate and that is the need for pastors to preach. The the chapter ends with what I like to call a knockout punch to those still clinging to their own righteousness. Verse 20But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. God is saying through his servant I reached out to Israel and they couldn’t find me and those who were not even looking for me found me. Paul is reminding using that salvation is not a magical procedure but salvation is the rescue of sinners by a Loving Savior.
Some Theological Considerations of Perfection by Edward Heppenstall BRI doc Can the Christian on this pilgrim’s journey be perfect? Depends on who you ask some say yes some say no. Why would the bible say be ye perfect if it was not possible? Many times as Christians the word perfect scares us we treat it like kryptonite. The minute the word is spoken we immediately think of our own short comings and how we don’t meet up to the criteria for which we think is necessary to be considered perfect. Bro Heppenstall article I believe is design to clear some of that anxiety and seek to see what the bible means by perfect and not what connotations we place on it. Bro Heppenstall concurs “It is therefore imperative that we study to grasp, as far as possible the Scriptural meaning and use of perfection and avoid arbitrary interpretations of our own”. According to Heppenstall the most important word translated "perfect" in the New Testament is the Greek word "teleios." This word is derived from the substantive "telos" usually rendered "goal," "purpose," "end." Therefore leading one to believe that being perfect is the achievement of spiritual maturity, a Christian stability from which ones does not turn back, an unshakeable allegiance to the Living God. A stance in which a child of God would chose death before dishonor and say like Job tho he slay me yet I will serve him. Heppenstall continues further but if I were to put a nautilus in a nut shell I would say biblical perfection is not so much focused on the Christian being without out sin but reaching a point in which Christ comes first no matter what. When they are right Christ is first when they are confused Christ is first and when they are wrong Christ is first and when they become aware of their wrong they take it to Jesus and do what they can to make it right.
Response # 5 To: Vladymir Isaac: Was Christ like Adam before the fall of after the fall?
A wonderful question Pastor Isaac! Its premise creates a natural tension that plays out in our understanding of the works of Christ redemption of us. It is an understanding plagued with interpolations from one side to another. One song I remember says how could divinity be clothed in humanity. This is quite a bit to take in and that’s without considering that Christ divinity was self-limited because he was still God and in the flesh, Emanuel. This mystery is at once enlightening and elusive. You raised the point quite accurately in your reflection that is fact is a paradox that humans will just have to except as the sky being blue. The only exception that I would take with your submission I must credit to Dr. Hanna’s class on the “Works of Christ”. It was in that class that he expanded my understanding that was not much different from your submission, to be more holistic. He suggested that Christ was both pre and post fall. Now the comments you made for the pre-fall argument was fair in my view. To add to that view: though Christ has an incorruptible nature he did not have an incorruptible body. This was to validate his need for God and example to us as his predecessors.
Ellen White on Salvation Chapter 17 Chapter 17 is rightly entitled “What does it all mean?” Yes we can wrestle with issue with Justification. Scholars can debate the ability of the Christian to become perfect. We can lose sight of what really matter and treat others like second class citizens in our quest for perfectionism as the extreme perfectionist of our times. Most often when these topics are addressed an air of pessimism fills the room doubt crowds the believers minds and the haunting idea of being perfect as impossibility arises. The author brings out that this does not have to be the case and uses Sis Whites optimism as an example. “Ellen White was most optimistic about what could be accomplished when the human will is combined with divine power. Great heights of character development will result. And can we not call this good news? I am personally thankful that I do not have to be burdened with any hereditary or cultivated defect. Certainly there is victory not only from the guilt of but also the power of sin! “More importantly the bible tells us with God all things are possible so we should not limit the great things God can do through even sinful mankind.
Pastor Paradise I appreciate the framework that you set for studying the scriptures as well as the framework for reading Ellen White. There are many things that we assume when we study these documents of faith that create a modal and unusable theology leaving us frustrated and spent. I believe its necessary to stop and remind ourselves what in fact were doing and what kind of implications it has. One minor slip, God forbid, could lead to another great disappointment. This astonishing reality creates a mindset that I believe humbles the faithful steward of God’s word and tethers them to its Messenger and message.
Our journey in this life is writ with strife and frustrations. Often times the reason we encounter such pains are not because of the calamities of a sinful world. Our experiences are at times punctuated by our negative relationships. I agree with your assessment of our journey to perfection with one exception. The nature of our journey to perfection starts at the time we accept Christ into our lives. Thus in your relationship paradigm I would declare our relationship with Christ to be the most important one. This relationship thankfully and hopefully will never end but continues throughout the ages. It is for this reason I believe that our journey to perfection never ends.
Alexis I enjoyed your questions very much on the topic of Roman’s 14. It’s a very interesting passage to read. I think it’s one of those passages that show how well rounded Paul was. The gospel that infected him was a transforming gospel. It was so transforming that it took a man who was once a persecutor to the church and turned him into a protagonists in the church martyrdom. I appreciated how you reframed the message of this passage into a more modern context. It is sort of quizzical that the same issues that plagued the Romans, unless Paul was speaking allegorically, is no plaguing the SDA community. I think that your friends’ interpretation is well meaning but is limited in its view. I believe anyone who reads this passage and walks away with a list of to do’s and to don’ts robs this degree of its beauty. I love that a lot of Paul’s most controversial texts create a system where one must retain The Spirit. His statements are implicitly codified to require the Spirit for interpretation and implementation.
Neil Gordon DOS Blog Post 3 Addressing the silent commandment, the one no one sees but only you know, Covetousness. Paul says there is a war within his members wanting to be delivered from the body of death, which can only be done through Christ Jesus. The silent assassin lurking in our mind willing us to do or think things that are beyond us or do not pertain to our personal growth is a constant struggle I know I face on a daily basis. I am thankful that Paul is so transparent on this subject being vulnerable enough to share with us how challenging the Christian can be at times. However, despite all these calamities there is nothing to hard for God. I bless the Lord for all that he allowed Paul to go through so that I could be blessed with his words of encouragement in my life. It seems that I have much more homework to do regarding the New Testament and systematic theology; there is so much I just haven’t noticed before. I am grateful for the additional tools enabling me to share all things with my bible students regarding the humanness of the individuals in the bible
Righteousness by Faith was a concept I thought I understood fully, I’ve come to realize I was still far from a deep understanding. After reading and listening to class discussions I saw a new idea about the same message. Christ is Faith personified, sure it was always there I’m just admitting that I did not look at Him being the Faith that replaced what the law could not do. Since I am focused on Old Testament I went back and re read some of the Torah to realize He was always the very thing words present him to be. He is wisdom, He is Faith, He is Righteousness, and He is Salvation. Since He is all of the aforementioned it can also be given or imputed to us. I am still learning more about the sensitivity required to push forward and I thank God for the new synaptic connections gained every day by the renewing of my mind. I can honestly say I am a pressing on the upward way. Of course the Spirit took me to many other places in scripture revealing additional insight that was always there, praise the Lord.
Neil Gordon DOS Blog Post 2 Romans 11 and our class discussion on the remnant was a humbling experience and a reminder how important it is to stay focused on Christ and not the infrastructure. Throughout time God has always chosen a small few to lead the church forward and if I think at any time I am entitled to whatever I want just because I am a member of church I am sadly mistaken. The words in class again points me back to grace through faith in Jesus and not by the works only. I can’t stay in slumber I must work daily to grow in grace and in my working no boasting lest I fall! As He said to Elijah I have seven thousand who have not bowed to bail. I am just grateful for the opportunity to spread the word with others. Being a seminary student has honestly been one of the most rewarding parts of my life. I realize that I bring meaning to the world through scripture, Praise God.
I find this quote from E.G. White quite impressive, and I which to reflect on it for a while for the sake of our present discussion. “The gift of Christ reveals the Father’s heart…. It declares that while God’s hatred of sin is as strong as death, His love for the sinner is stronger than death, Having undertaken our redemption, He will spare nothing, however dear, which is necessary to the completion of His work…. The whole treasury of heaven is open to those He seeks to save” (DA 57). For some of us the problem hardly need further explanation at all. The idea that God saves the world in Christ is just more than we think and ever can imagine, when properly understood especially from the advent of God, it appears multi-dimensional. From the quote ‘the whole treasure of heaven is open to those He seeks to save’ portends that God will not stop at exercising all available mean /medium to making sure that salvation is made possible for all human race. It is so fascinating to know that the Father’s love for the sinner is far incomprehensible compared to His hatred for sin itself. I feel if we truly understand this concept, we would know how God works in and through other religions as instruments of temporal, existential and historical salvation to millions or even billions of people if you may.
The Substitutionary Atonement of Christ The whole idea of the biblical teaching on atonement as finding a common ground otherwise known as reconciliation with God and human race of course through Christ stands out among other pillars of our doctrine. Historical, several proposed models emphases this concept in different dimensions; I wish to share what I find fascinating about the substitutionary atonement of Christ by first embarking on a field trip on the various thoughts. I have particular enjoyed Anselm’s version of the “idea of satisfaction” claiming that since God alone could atone for sin, which humanity was under the obligation to pay, so therefore it was necessary for the God-man to pay the satisfaction price for human kind. Thus this satisfaction was made possible through the voluntary death of Christ for the sins of the world. The idea of “reparation, ransom, and expiation” didn’t quite sit well with my understanding of God’s nature. I do not wish to believe that God is a feudal lord and his justice is arbitrary. Abelard’s proposed moral influenced may appear to counter balance that of Anselm’s but utilized same idea as the price, sacrifice, merit, much more central to his theory is that divine love awakens human’s response of love. For Abelard, love is the motive, method and also the result of God’s redemption. I consider this approach a interesting, because “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends… John 15:13” for me this theory is so fascinating because of the power of love. According to Abelard, “love is the motive, method, and result” and understandably it’s the universal language, which is why all the universe is drawn to God, and the awareness of God’s right of ownership. It is not arbitrary, it is just spontaneity, it encumbers the sense of authentic community, spiritual fellowship, and a right relationship with God. This is awesome! There may be have several other model of atonement but reading (“ God sending His Son as an offering for sin_ Rom 8:3”; “made Him, who knew no sin, to be sin for us_ 2Cor 5:21”;) and several other references makes sense of the substitutionary atonement. Christ death for the sinner makes it a vicarious death in that “while we were yet sinners_ Rom 5:8,9” meaning that as enemies of God’s grace, God himself stood condemned, (by taking upon himself the sins of the world and becoming sin for us!) and at the same time Justified in His substitutionary death. The substitutionary atonement brings God under trail, while moral influence justifies God’s motive. Praise the Lord!!!
403 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 403 Newer› Newest»Response to Paul Muniz "Yea, All Are Saved, Not - Maybe! said..." 6/22/08
It's true that 'universal salvation' has been misinterpreted many times and often been abused my some. I feel that this Universal message needs to be shared because it is very biblical. Although the usage of the word is not used, the implicit meaning is by "the gift of God is through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23).
This gift is not limited to a specific group of people but to all those who accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
Response to Josiah Harry said...
Assignment # 2 on 6/22/10
I see the problem the Adventist message has when comparing it to the Biblical mandates outlined throughout Scripture, on the surface. But on a closer reading of the text, Adventism is fulfilling a message that has often been ignored. Adventism began with a message founded on the Gospel Commission and Three Angels’ Messages and we should stick to it if we are to continue our calling of existence.
The problem I see is not that of culture or even our application of the Adventist message in this world, because culture specifies and beautifies the context the gospel is in. I think the problem lies is our detachment from our mission. In our present time we are having a General Conference Session with many topics that aren’t relevant to the churches mission for the gospel but for maintaining our structure and image for institutional purposes. This I feel has united us with other churches and dulled the message we carried with fire in the past. I think we have a lot more to offer than merely doctrines but a message that needs to be lived in a society that has forgotten it’s role as children of God.
Hi Sevilla in order for salvation to be complete, the third aspect of salvation which is glorification also need to be considered. Thanks for your contribution.
Hi Brother Edgar,
Your statement deserves credit and thank you for your satement which says"Our salvation depends on God’s grace from beginning to end, there is nothing anyone can do to merit God’s grace otherwise it will be a payment and not a gift. I do agree with you that salvation means God's grace.
During the contributions given in our class discussion by various students and the comments of Dr. Hanna, I came to discover that the issue of perfection needs some more clarification and attention. In the book of Matthew 5:48 Jesus says: Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. We cannot be perfect apart from others. The Bible links perfection with human relationships. Christ urges us to be as perfect as our Father in heaven and ties the process to how we treat each other. The Kingdom of God is about eternal, peaceful relationships. We cannot withdraw from people and still develop the necessary relationship skills, just as God never leaves us but continues to work with us. Life would be easier for Him if He ignored us, but He works on, helping us develop our relationships with Him. He is the One who works perfection in us. As human beings we are only perfect through his justification which is the righteousness of God, through the progressive process of sanctification which is a gift from God, and finally at the second coming of Jesus when our mortal bodies shall put on immortality in our glorification then our perfection will be complete. It seems that brethren indeed we are in a school where by our graduation will only be complete through our lord and savior Jesus Christ at his second coming, when our maturity will be finally realized. As sinful human beings saved by the blood of Jesus through his grace, we look forward for that great morning of resurrection when Christ will say welcome home brother and sister, inherit the kingdom which was prepared for you before the foundations of the world.
Response to Bigogo Enock's reflection # 3.
Thank you for reminding us about the importance of Christ's sacrifice on the cross of Calvary and its great influence in the plan of salvation and in the Great Controversy. Even thought God has done everything for us He left one thing up to us. He chose not to force us to accept His gift, but gave us the freedom to make our own choices for against Him.
Response to Edgar Alquinta Assignment # 3.
I really appreciate the way you defined Salvation. I think that this is one of the best equations of Salvation. Everything is about God's grace. We cannot do anything on our own. Even our works, as mentioned in class by Dr. Hanna, are counted good because of God's grace and because He enables us to do those good deeds. I wold like ti just say, Thank you God for your Grace!!!
Reflection No.3
During the contributions given in our class discussion by various students and the comments of Dr. Hanna, I came to discover that the issue of perfection needs some more clarification and attention. In the book of Matthew 5:48 Jesus says: Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. We cannot be perfect apart from others. The Bible links perfection with human relationships. Christ urges us to be as perfect as our Father in heaven and ties the process to how we treat each other. The Kingdom of God is about eternal, peaceful relationships. We cannot withdraw from people and still develop the necessary relationship skills, just as God never leaves us but continues to work with us. Life would be easier for Him if He ignored us, but He works on, helping us develop our relationships with Him. He is the One who works perfection in us. As human beings we are only perfect through his justification which is the righteousness of God, through the progressive process of sanctification which is a gift from God, and finally at the second coming of Jesus when our mortal bodies shall put on immortality in our glorification then our perfection will be complete. It seems that brethren indeed we are in a school where by our graduation will only be complete through our lord and savior Jesus Christ at his second coming, when our maturity will be finally realized. As sinful human beings saved by the blood of Jesus through his grace, we look forward for that great morning of resurrection when Christ will say welcome home brother and sister, inherit the kingdom which was prepared for you before the foundations of the world.
During the contributions given in our class discussion by various students and the comments of Dr. Hanna, I came to discover that the issue of perfection needs some more clarification and attention. In the book of Matthew 5:48 Jesus says: Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. We cannot be perfect apart from others. The Bible links perfection with human relationships. Christ urges us to be as perfect as our Father in heaven and ties the process to how we treat each other. The Kingdom of God is about eternal, peaceful relationships. We cannot withdraw from people and still develop the necessary relationship skills, just as God never leaves us but continues to work with us. Life would be easier for Him if He ignored us, but He works on, helping us develop our relationships with Him. He is the One who works perfection in us. As human beings we are only perfect through his justification which is the righteousness of God, through the progressive process of sanctification which is a gift from God, and finally at the second coming of Jesus when our mortal bodies shall put on immortality in our glorification then our perfection will be complete. It seems that brethren indeed we are in a school where by our graduation will only be complete through our lord and savior Jesus Christ at his second coming, when our maturity will be finally realized. As sinful human beings saved by the blood of Jesus through his grace, we look forward for that great morning of resurrection when Christ will say welcome home brother and sister, inherit the kingdom which was prepared for you before the foundations of the world.
Comment on Jared millers assigns no#3
I totally agree with what Jared said that though he doesn’t totally understand what happened in 1888, but what he is sure is that if there were some merits or favor those earlier Adventist received ,it was by faith through the merits of Jesus Christ only but not their works ,he also said that our present Adventists also need to understand that they need the faith and the grace of God to accomplish their salvation.
I have many questions that have come up in my mind about the weak-faith, strong-faith discussion we had a week ago, and so looked a little more into it in Romans 14. Here we have a case of Paul using an argument that puts two Adventist faith practices to the test (or so it seems) the first is on eating, and the second is on sacred days. I have often heard this passage used as an argument against us. For example, one of my friends and I were discussing this topic and she stated, “Romans 14 is telling us we can eat anything and worship any day so long as we have a strong faith. You guys have it backwards.” This might be the case… but I wonder if there is not something more to what is being said in this passage.
It sounds like there was a heavy debate going on, in which people were eating foods and worshipping on pagan holy days which was causing unrest in the church. People were becoming offended by what others were doing, and those who were eating or worshipping were upset because they felt there was no reason for the others to be offended. Those with stronger faith, who had a better understanding of salvation were in a sense, set free from laws of food and drink because of their faith in Christ. Yet by breaking harmless human regulations they were causing those with newer, younger faith to stumble out of confusion. So Paul isn’t addressing the food issue or worship issue, he is actually addressing the issue of unrest caused by those things.
He is encouraging people of that church to look on one another with concern and love for each other. Those who stumble because of weak faith, shouldn’t judge by external appearances of what the others eat or how they worship. Those who eat freely and worship freely, shouldn’t judge those who are offended by what they do. Both camps need to uplift one another by not causing eachother to stumble. Therefore, if eating meat causes a man to stumble, don’t do it in his presence. If you know a person who is vegetarian who would be offended by you eating meat, don’t eat meat while they are there. If you are with a brother or sister who is a strict vegan who could be offended by you eating cheese…Etc…
Now for the part I have questions on… does this mean that our eating and worshipping on the Sabbath should not matter? Is it a matter of personal faith, and if we are so concerned about it, does this make it legalism? This I’m not sure about. I believe Sabbath is a holy day, and that keeping it is in accordance with the ten commandments. But I also believe that there will be those who didn’t keep the Sabbath on earth in heaven. This point is on the simple fact that salvation revolves around Jesus and our relationship with him and not on the law itself.
I however am not sure about the diet issue. I did not become a vegetarian until I was 13 years old and was looked down upon because of it. Yet my choice of diet was not a matter of salvation for me, it was a matter of health. I wanted to be healthier, and so I chose not to eat meat. The Adventist health message is important. It is amazing witnessing tool and opportunity to have a happier stronger lifestyle. But it is not something we need to condemn people of if they eat porkchops.
So when we witness, I see love as coming first! We need to love people before we talk to them about diet, Sabbath, or anything else related to doctrine. We need to share the gospel with them and the good news of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross before we explain what to eat and what not to eat and why. And if we offend someone by what we eat or drink or how we worship in the church, we need to take that into consideration and respect one another as well.
So…If anyone has any insights into this passage, I would appreciate feedback. I still have many questions on how to explain it in an understanda
Comment on Dr Hanna’s response on assign no#3
What I appreciated on your work is of elaborating how every aspect Jesus Christ is relevant to our salvation, and secondly driving Avery good example of how symbolic language and literal meanings are integrated ,for instance the symbolic meaning of the blood and the cross of Jesus. I had been wrestling with that problem on how does that blood which was shed on the cross which no body preserved save or cleanse us from all our sins or how can the wooden save us.
reflection # 4 Alexis Rivera
“”we know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate to do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it but it is sin living in me…. For I have the desire to do good but I cannot carry it out… for what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do-this I keep on doing…
I don’t think there is any human on earth who could not relate to what Paul is describing here. Each of us has the struggle with sin. There is a war that goes on between our sinful nature and the nature of Christ. I know, on a personal level, there are days where I do exactly the opposite of what I know is right, and then I wonder to myself… WHY did I do that?!
In this passage there are several laws at work. And I find it interesting that Paul brings these up. The first is the law of God: the law we as followers of Christ naturally delight in: the law that is in our minds. The second law is the law of the flesh and body: the law that states we are born sinners. Since they conflict with each other, we become prisoners of both laws. When we fall to the law of the body, we are condemned by the law of God. No wonder Paul states, “what a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?” and no wonder he responds by stating “thanks be to God-through Jesus Christ our lord!.”
So to those of us who have struggled with sin (and that should be everyone) This passage and the one that follows should be filled with joy. The conflict and war within our hearts and minds against sin is a hopeless one when Christ is out of the picture. Yet since we can accept salvation through Christ, we are no longer held by the law of the flesh and we are therefore set free from the condemnation of the law.
Concerning the sin struggle, since everyone struggles with a sinful nature, there is one major difference between a person with no hope and one who is filled with hope. As Romans 8 states, “those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the spirit have their minds set on what the spirit desires… the mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the spirit is life and peace…” So when there is temptation, the one controlled by flesh dwells on that temptation and desire. Yet the one who is controlled by the spirit dwells on Jesus and his power to overcome… they can therefore, overcome temptation because of their focus. And even when they do not, they can still focus on Christ and be forgiven.
In response to Wilking Jean assignment # 2
Brother King I like your question about the gospel should be preached whether with man or another way. For the people who don't have the opportunity to receive the gospel God will provide a way to reach these persons whether with human beings or another way because this gospel has to preach in order to Christ to come. Our grand parent in Eden after their sin received from God the great commission to multiply the earth. Jesus Himself after his resurrection gives to everyone who accepts his salvation the job to preach the gospel. Our mission compare to Adam and Eve one is to spread the good news about Christ's salvation everywhere in the world. Therefore, if we failed to do it God is able to use rocks to do his work.
In response to brother Sevilla Response #2
Brother Sevilla I think you are right about your point on salvation. I had the same problem you had thinking that salvation could be described in only two ways. Now I can say that this course brought new insight for me concerning this topic. And I am looking forward for more knowledge on it in the future. Therefore, I am encouraging you my dear brother to do the same thing because it is a very broad subject that even in heaven we will still continue to study it.
Reflection#2
Ricardo Woolcock
Feliz Sabado
Im reflecting on the class as it has ended this morning. as i read all of the blog entries i see the issue of salvation is still a hot topic. I believe salvation will always hold mysteries about its details and i encourage all whose spirit is not setteled on the fact, to rest in Jesus Christ.
Resting in Jesus not only grows us spiritually but it also grows us intellectually, and some how what our 8% sin depleted brain was incapable of comprehending can now through the agency of the HG we start to understand better and fuller by and by, but just as sanctification is a process and the work of a lifetime so is understanding salvation completely, that does not mean we should stop studying, and cease earnestly searching but at the end of our studies, for a period, we should rest in the fact that Jesus saves, and it should be our Joy and duty to discover what that means in its fullness.
So when those that come to us ,that God has entrusted to our care, we can better explain it, but dont ever get salvation mixed up with an understanding of how Jesus does it, just know He does, He has been doing it since the Garden, with those that has known his name(Jesus)and those that dont know his name.
We dont know exactly how Jesus can save a vodoo doctor in Tanzania that has never knew his name but he can and the Bible say he wants too thats why jesus came,to save mankind.
and if that vodoo doctor is saved,that never knew Jesus, it will be because of Jesus Christ, yes we can think of lots of reasons why he wont be saved, yet and still Jesus saves, when we make ourselfs out to be the absolute authority on salvation,and when people come to us about thier salvation, with specifics, and we dont really know the answer and instead of telling them let me get back with you on that one,I dont know, BUT until then, read about Jesus and how he saved XYZ, when according to everyone else it should of been impossible
we give them some flemsy, unbiblical crazy answer that were not even sure about ourself.
what happens is in that answer we convey our unsurity to them in our response and instead of strengthening thier faith in Jesus as thier savior, we help satan chip away at the faith God has given them. and it chips away at our faith as well.
YOUR salvation is not based in a working knowledge of salvation but in a faith relationship with the man of salvation: JESUS CHRIST
Response to Ghenadie
I still grapple with the make-up of Jesus i cant sit with the statement Jesus laid hold of humanity with one hand and Divinity with another but I do believe He was 100# man and God whatever that means really
Response to thomas Oyaro on perfection
good post for me it really focused on the process of perfection, like doc said in class its a process, life long with stages, lets preach it and teach it that way
Response to sevillia on justificaton v sanctification as justice and mercy
I like the way you pointed out that justice mercy part, never looked at it like that, but now i can see that clearly thanks
God character is revealed more and more in His plan
I noticed an igniter media clip talking about the topic of faith vs. works and thought it made a very good point. it is a 3 minute video. copy and paste the link if you would like to see it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG-nDZMH1H4
Reading Assignment #3
Name : Hyo Won
Date : Jun 26, 2010
(Rm 12:1) Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship.
(Rm 12:2) Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.
One thing touched in my mind is that since offering is not living being, Offering should be a being dead to be a real offering. The sacrifices of the OT ceremonial system were of slain animals. The Christian sacrifice is of the living man. The Christian worshiper presents himself alive with all his energies and powers dedicated to the service of God. Living sacrifice means dedication to God.
Every offering was carefully examined, and if any blemish was discovered, the animal was rejected. Likewise Christians are to present their bodies in the best condition possible. All their faculties and powers must be preserved pure and holy, or else their dedication of themselves to God cannot be acceptable to Him. This is no arbitrary requirement. God's purpose for believers is their complete restoration. This necessarily includes the purification and strengthening of their physical as well as their mental and spiritual powers. Therefore, the Christian who by faith submits himself to God's way of saving man will gladly obey this command to regard the health of his body as a matter of the highest importance. To do otherwise is to hinder the divine work of restoration. How are we usually offered without dedication to the altar every single Sabbath?
“Transformed by the renewing of your mind”(vs2) is kind of sanctification. It describes the transformation of the believer into the image of Christ. Paul is saying that the Christian should not copy the external and fleeting fashions of this world, but should be thoroughly changed in his inmost nature. Sanctification includes both an outward separation from all the unholy customs of this age and an inward transformation of the believer himself.
As the inward man is being transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit, the outward life is being progressively changed. The sanctification of the mind will reveal itself in a holier way of living, as the character of Christ is more and more perfectly reproduced in the believer.
Reading Assignment #3
Name : Hyo Won
Date : Jun 26, 2010
(Rm 12:1) Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship.
(Rm 12:2) Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will.
One thing touched in my mind is that since offering is not living being, Offering should be a being dead to be a real offering. The sacrifices of the OT ceremonial system were of slain animals. The Christian sacrifice is of the living man. The Christian worshiper presents himself alive with all his energies and powers dedicated to the service of God. Living sacrifice means dedication to God.
Every offering was carefully examined, and if any blemish was discovered, the animal was rejected. Likewise Christians are to present their bodies in the best condition possible. All their faculties and powers must be preserved pure and holy, or else their dedication of themselves to God cannot be acceptable to Him. This is no arbitrary requirement. God's purpose for believers is their complete restoration. This necessarily includes the purification and strengthening of their physical as well as their mental and spiritual powers. Therefore, the Christian who by faith submits himself to God's way of saving man will gladly obey this command to regard the health of his body as a matter of the highest importance. To do otherwise is to hinder the divine work of restoration. How are we usually offered without dedication to the altar every single Sabbath?
“Transformed by the renewing of your mind”(vs2) is kind of sanctification. It describes the transformation of the believer into the image of Christ. Paul is saying that the Christian should not copy the external and fleeting fashions of this world, but should be thoroughly changed in his inmost nature. Sanctification includes both an outward separation from all the unholy customs of this age and an inward transformation of the believer himself.
As the inward man is being transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit, the outward life is being progressively changed. The sanctification of the mind will reveal itself in a holier way of living, as the character of Christ is more and more perfectly reproduced in the believer.
In 5th response to Edgar Alquinta’s #3
Salvation = Grace + nothing
I appreciate on what Edgar has written for salvation that Grace being only is the salvation. We frequently misunderstand like Grace + something, but for sure salvation is the grace of God with nothing. Unfortunately we never know the grace from the above because that is none other than only coming from Him.
In 5th response to Edgar Alquinta’s #3
Salvation = Grace + nothing
I appreciate on what Edgar has written for salvation that Grace being only is the salvation. We frequently misunderstand like Grace + something, but for sure salvation is the grace of God with nothing. Unfortunately we never know the grace from the above because that is none other than only coming from Him.
To Piase’s Reflection #3(6th response)
The danger of a striving to be a superman
I agree with it. As I had served the Lord, from time to time I wanted to be a superman, my church members wanted me to be as well. How sad it was. I did not know the grace of God as usual.
I like this expression ‘SuperMan’ not from myself, but from God Himself
response to Hyo Won: Reflection 3
Since I am doing my research paper on this topic, your reflection caught my attention. I had not thought about living sacrifices in both spirit and body, and appreciated you pointing out that we need to pay attention to our physical heatlh as well as our spiritual.
Response to Michael Taylor's reflection 1
I appreciated the back to basics principal of the class as well. These discussions have shaken my faith to the core, making me ask myself what Salvation is really all about. It has also caused me to re-think the way I preach and teach, especially to non-adventists. The way I see it, no matter what we are teaching, whether that be the Sabbath, mark of the beast or state of the dead, we need to keep Christ as the center of it. Everything we share should be based on that.
I appreciate your thoughts Sevilla. I think Whidden’s holistic view that you mentioned is well stated—as the doctrine of Salvation shouldn’t be isolated from the rest of our doctrines. I also appreciate your transparency about having a perfectionist mentality—I think that is something many of us struggle with.
I appreciate your honest and open reflection Ricardo. I agree with you that sanctification and understanding salvation are both a process and the work of a lifetime. Thank you for pointing us to Jesus—in whom we all need to rest and trust His saving grace.
Reading Assignment #4
Name : Hyo Won
Date : Jun 27, 2010
“1 We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.”(Rom 15:1)
The ones who are so strong are not only standing firm themselves but should also help others to stand.
“No soul who believes in Christ, though his faith may be weak, and his steps wavering as those of a little child, is to be lightly esteemed. By all that has given us advantage over another, be it education and refinement, nobility of character, Christian training, religious experience, We are in debt to those less favored; and, so far as lies in our power, we are to minister unto them. If we are strong, we are to stay up the hands of the weak. Angels of glory, that do always behold the face of the Father in heaven, joy in ministering to His little ones. Trembling souls, who have many objectionable traits of character, are their special charge. Angels are ever present where they are most needed, with those who have the hardest battle with self to fight, and whose surroundings are the most discouraging. And in this ministry Christ's true followers will co-operate.
If one of these little ones shall be overcome, and commit a wrong against you, then it is your work to seek his restoration. Do not wait for him to make the first effort for reconciliation. "How think ye?" said Jesus; "if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish."”(DA, 440)
I think this is the time to move ahead for the weak, even for the ones who seem not to be weak. Until when do we stay as what we are now?
This is my challenge through this class.
To Vladimir’s Reflection#4(7th response)
The nature of Christ and salvation
“Christ human nature was subject to all kind of temptations, but he did resist because of his constant communion with his Father.”
This is what I am thinking these days. I am grateful for this.
To Alexis’ Reflection#2(8th response)
Thank you for a keen sight written so that I know the relation between law and grace through the illustration in Romans 7. Surely we all are bound by the law, and Jesus died on the cross. It is the completion of the law. Then we are naturally released. Thank you for reminding me.
Response to Bigogo Enock Reflection #3
Enock, it is good that you reiterate the human impulsive response to sin: running away from God. It is ironic that we run away when we should be running to Him. Not only do we run away, we try to fix the problem of sin with fig leaves such as work and perfectionism. But as you rightly said, there is no escape from sin except in Christ. It is only a relationship with Him that will take care of the damage caused by sin.
Respons to Sevilla’s Reflection #2 “Facets of Salvation”
Sevilla, between class lectures and discussion, reading Whidden’s book, reading the articles on line, I believe it is a relief (a refreshing one), learning about all the things that come into play where salvation is concern. It is true that there is a misconception that presents only a narrow view of salvation. Indeed salvation includes the Great Controversy, the nature of man, the life, death, and resurrection of Christ, the atonement and end time events. Like you I am amazed by Whidden’s research compiling E.G. White view on the doctrine of salvation. I really appreciate having this resource in one book, as it makes it easier to see the progression of White’s thought over time.
@Sevilla
RE: Response #2
It's amazing to think of how simple yet so incredibly profound our God is. Salvation is simple and that can lead to black and white responses. But It's so deep and profound that to do so does a disservice to a full understanding of the doctrine of salvation.
In my mind it seems so many want black and white, yes or no, right or wrong answers. Some accept that's not possible so they explain in shades of grey. I agree with both. But I also say that our God and His revealed truths are full color and all the shades.
What I'm saying is that I agree with you that Salvation is many faceted. Yet it's mysteriously simple too.
@Hyo Won
Re: Reading Assignment #4
Friend, your quote and challenge inspired me today. May we all have that spirit to minister unto the least of us. Which is all of us.
@Alexis
Re:Reflection #4
Romans 7 is a chapter that really speaks home to me. It's something how someone can rage against sin and yet fall back into it. Paul's explanation of the two nature's warring really illuminates that struggle. And I love the last verse that in chap 7 that we a rescued from this body of death through Christ Jesus our Lord and the next verse 8:1
"Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."
I think that oughta be 7:26 not 8:1
Praise be the Jesus, my focus, that He saves me and helps me overcome.
Thanks for your insight.
Comments on edger Alquinta assign no #3.
I’m impressed to read your post, am in a total agreement of that topic you represented on the types of grace, I personally I have experienced or seen God’s grace in various situation though I didn’t understand what type of grace I was experiencing but at least after victory from that particular circumstance I could say if it were not God’s grace, I could have not made it. In my journey to heaven I’m convinced that if God will not supply me with his grace I will not make it. Thank you very much.
Comment on Dr.Hanna’s post on assign no#3.
I want to appreciate your intellectual interpretation of giving one example of applying a symbolic language to the literal one, though your of the cross and the blood might not be found scripturally, by this I mean you can’t get a scripture explaining where the blood of Christ was kept, nor the wooden cross kept, But this is a perfect example. These two symbols are very important for our salvation, it calls for both in intelligence and more study of both the scriptures and the spirit of prophecy plus God given wisdom to interpret some symbolic languages in the bible.
Reflection #3
A lot of the Christian world has a problem with obedience. The reason, I suppose, has to do with trying to avoid the pit of legalism. The funny thing, however, is that most Christians don’t have a problem with what is normally commanded: don’t lie, don’t kill, don’t steal, don’t worship other gods, etc. They actually say that these actions are good and that Christians should be doing these things. The problem arises when a person is told to obey. Since legalism is bad, they say, obedience is also necessarily bad. If a church teaches obedience, they are also teaching legalism.
Of course, as a Seventh-day Adventist, I reject this reasoning. The fact that I preach and teach obedience does not automatically mean that I am also teaching legalism. If I teach that a person must obey in order to receive salvation, that’s legalism. If I teach that a person must cooperate with God and do good works to be saved, that’s also legalism. But if I teach that a person lives a sanctified life in obedience to God as a natural response to a living, active, and saving relationship with Jesus Christ, that’s not legalism, that’s the gospel.
The problem, you see, is that most people have the wrong idea about obedience. Most people see obedience as a person working for his own salvation. If that’s the case, then yes, obedience is definitely an appalling concept. But that is not biblical obedience. Obedience is not a duty one needs to perform to earn salvation, or even favor, with God, but an act of worship to God. If this is the case, then obedience is not something to be feared, but embraced.
Paul seems to understand obedience in this way as well: “Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship” (Romans 12:1, NIV). Paul is not being legalistic when he talks about obedience. Instead, he relates it to an act of worship. Our bodies, and what we do with them, should be given to God day by day as a sacrifice to God. This sacrifice, then, becomes an act of worship to glorify God for the grace and salvation he has already given to us freely.
True worship is always a response to what God has done for us. It flows from our relationship with Him. If we don’t have a relationship with God, worship becomes ritualistic and cultic. It has no purpose, no meaning, and no power. But if God, in His infinite love and grace, has decided to forgive me of my sins and transform me through the grace of God, then I have a reason, a desire to worship. I want to praise God for delivering me from my sins and their consequences. I worship, then, because I am saved.
If what Paul is saying is right, and I believe he is, then obedience (presenting our bodies as living sacrifices) is not a means of salvation, but an act of worship in response to the love of God. Obedience, because it is an act of worship, cannot be disconnected from a relationship with God. The two must go hand in hand. We worship as a response to God’s saving grace, not a means to earn that grace. We obey because that’s how we worship God for already saving us, not because it will force God to make the decision to save us.
Obedience, then, is not something to be feared, but embraced. It is a gift God has given us to be able to respond in worship to Him. I want to worship God because he has been so good to me. And if obedience is a way to truly worship God, then I embrace it, I love it, and I do it. Not for me, for God.
In Response to Jonathan Martin's reflection # 3
I feel the concept of obedience as a bad thing really needs to be adressed clearly when we are teaching Salvation. I like the way you explained how obedience stems from Salvation as a natural occuring process. Therefore it is not negative, unless we take it to the far extreme. the act of worship for God is something we joyfully do in response to His love and forgiveness.
I believe the idea of justification is a foreign concept for Christians who love the idea of perfectionism. Frankly speaking, it is a concept that is hard for me to fathom as well. I believe this might be especially true for people who has been influenced by conservative side. On the flip side, people on the liberal camp may have the false understanding of the idea of perfectionism as well.
According to Whidden, the gospel of justification may seem cheap to those who adhere to perfectionism, because the works of obedience is not in the formula of earning salvation. On the flip side, people in the liberal circle does not appreciate the balanced teaching of the gospel either, because it does require submission to Jesus’ lordship. They argue that submission to Jesus is interrelated with faith by works, which goes contrary to the salvation given to us by the amazing love and grace of Jesus Christ.
I have always appreciated the balance that Ellen White brings to the biblical doctrine of our church. Although the doctrines are sourced from the scripture, depending on how one interprets scripture, different understandings can come about as a result of it. Especially in regards to justification, Ellen White makes a very clear statement. She says, “Faith will never save you unless it is justified by works.” (2T 159), and “Faith must be sustained by works; the doers of the work are justified before God” (2T 167). She says this statement especially for those who make excuses for their disobedience that people will be save from sin, not in sin.
One can have false assurance that once he or she is saved, that person is always saved, which comes from the Calvinistic thought. That thought often leads to trusting in one’s own strength rather than depending fully on Christ. I appreciate the fact that Ellen white always keeps us on track whenever we try to detract from the truth.
I was surprised to read the statement, “Christ’s merits make our obedience acceptable”, but I cannot deny that is the truth. The truth is, even the best efforts that we can put together is in fact deficient and defective, and thus, unacceptable to God. It is Christ’s obedience in life and death that makes sinners acceptable.
I was also surprised that Ellen White emphasized Christ’s life as well as death in this process, but it makes a clear sense, because if we only believe Christ’s death to be atoning for our sins, we would be tempted to put in our works into the equation to go along with Christ’s death for salvation. Whidden declares that For Ellen White, it is not the works, but it is the attitude that needs to be emphasized. Whidden says, “The attitude was declared to be one that involved a desire to obey God and a distaste for sin in any form”.
I am thankful for the voice of the prophet that has shed light on the scripture so that we may understand it more clearly. Having this holistic framework helps me to understand scripture literally, rather than merely looking at it in literalistic term or symbolic term.
The posting above is Reflection #3
Response to Ricardo Woolcock Reflection #2
Thankyou for talking about the person of salvation and emphasizing a relationship with Jesus. I think this is important. From a pastoral perspective, I see looking at the why and how of salvation as important too. not so much because we should question and debate over how Jesus does it, but in order to share the gospel in an understandable way to anyone (of any background, culture or belief) we come in contact with.
Response #3 Predestination and
Election (Rom 8:29-30)
The class presentations, discussion, and Dr. Hanna’s analysis of Romans have indeed enriched and helped me to understand predestination and election in a new and wholistic way. The impression I seemingly picked is that maybe for a long time in the history of the church, individuals and religion systems have interpreted and taught Paul’s writings too literalistically leaving out the symbolic elements, especially on predestination and election, a fact that almost eliminates room for the exercise of personal choice (will). Historically, the problem seems not to lie in the words, but rather in their doctrinal, hermeneutical, and theological interpretations. In order to strike a balance in approaching these subjects it is necessary to put our theological, hermeneutical, and theological interpretations in subjection to ‘thus saith the bible”.
Truly, I discovered that God does not stop an event from taking place simply because He knows it in advance. This is perhaps what makes Him remain to be God. He liberally extends the privilege of exercising the freedom of choice to humanity, an element upon which his government is operates. Ideally, the BRI documents speaking on these subjects noted, “The Biblical God, being the kind of God who knows the end from the beginning (Isa 46:9), decided to create the world, knowing that there will be a fall . . . Because of His foreknowledge, He decided upon ( predestined) a plan, an activity through which the fall would be remedied. This plan, although hatched before creation, to be carried in human history, was not implemented until a certain time was fulfilled (Gal 4:4).The plan envisaged redemption and restoration only in Christ: his life, death, and resurrection, through the enabling and sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. Since God’s foreknowledge of the future events does not mean he predetermined every future event, all are genuinely free to respond to his plan positively or negatively. No destiny of individuals is fixed from eternity on the basis of God’s decision 9predestination) . Hence … predestination is the context within which God has made salvation graciously possible based on individual choice”.
On the idea of election, it remains God’s prerogative and sovereignty which are unquestionably beyond human comprehension. Israel (Jacob’s) election was literally birthright according to flesh. This did not exclude Esau from the tribe and the blessings of God. The election was for a specific mission that Israel as a nation failed to accomplish. In most practical terms, election did not and does not give anyone spiritual advantage in the face of God. Paul was ideally struggling to bring his brethren ‘according to the flesh’ to terms that unless they accepted God at a personal level, their election as descendants of Abraham according to flesh could avail no salvation. A misunderstanding of this element tends to lead either individuals or groups of people into pride along religious systems. In summary, Paul used the terms predestination and election in Romans to emphasize the fact that salvation is purely an activity of God in which man’s input is totally absent. Man becomes a recipient of salvation benefits virtually by responding to the free offer of grace.
Response #3 Predestination and Election (Rom 8:29-30)
The class presentations, discussion, and Dr. Hanna’s analysis of Romans have indeed enriched and helped me to understand predestination and election in a new and wholistic way. The impression I seemingly picked is that maybe for a long time in the history of the church, individuals and religion systems have interpreted and taught Paul’s writings too literalistically leaving out the symbolic elements, especially on predestination and election, a fact that almost eliminates room for the exercise of personal choice (will). Historically, the problem seems not to lie in the words, but rather in their doctrinal, hermeneutical, and theological interpretations. In order to strike a balance in approaching these subjects it is necessary to put our theological, hermeneutical, and theological interpretations in subjection to ‘thus saith the bible”.
Truly, I discovered that God does not stop an event from taking place simply because He knows it in advance. This is perhaps what makes Him remain to be God. He liberally extends the privilege of exercising the freedom of choice to humanity, an element upon which his government is operates. Ideally, the BRI documents speaking on these subjects noted, “The Biblical God, being the kind of God who knows the end from the beginning (Isa 46:9), decided to create the world, knowing that there will be a fall . . . Because of His foreknowledge, He decided upon ( predestined) a plan, an activity through which the fall would be remedied. This plan, although hatched before creation, to be carried in human history, was not implemented until a certain time was fulfilled (Gal 4:4).The plan envisaged redemption and restoration only in Christ: his life, death, and resurrection, through the enabling and sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. Since God’s foreknowledge of the future events does not mean he predetermined every future event, all are genuinely free to respond to his plan positively or negatively. No destiny of individuals is fixed from eternity on the basis of God’s decision 9predestination) . Hence … predestination is the context within which God has made salvation graciously possible based on individual choice”.
On the idea of election, it remains God’s prerogative and sovereignty which are unquestionably beyond human comprehension. Israel (Jacob’s) election was literally birthright according to flesh. This did not exclude Esau from the tribe and the blessings of God. The election was for a specific mission that Israel as a nation failed to accomplish. In most practical terms, election did not and does not give anyone spiritual advantage in the face of God. Paul was ideally struggling to bring his brethren ‘according to the flesh’ to terms that unless they accepted God at a personal level, their election as descendants of Abraham according to flesh could avail no salvation. A misunderstanding of this element tends to lead either individuals or groups of people into pride along religious systems. In summary, Paul used the terms predestination and election in Romans to emphasize the fact that salvation is purely an activity of God in which man’s input is totally absent. Man becomes a recipient of salvation benefits virtually by responding to the free offer of grace.
Jonathan Martin
I agree with you brother Martin that once we have a personal relationship with God, obedience becomes a very natural activity. The obedience is our appreciation to all that He has accomplished on our through the death of Christ on the cross. That is why Paul records in one of his letters that "The love of God consentraineth us"
Stephene Lee
Thanks brother for finding the balance between grace and works a subject that seems to devide the church.As much as works are looked at as a conservative ideology, they are the avenues by which we appreciate how much Christ has done to our lives.
Reflection #4
Eternity in the Dynamics of Salvation
It is hard to imagine how quickly time goes by when one is engaged in life’s events in a meaningful way. Three weeks is really a short time to look at a subject that only eternity is capable of revealing. Eternity in this sense does not signify intellectual complexity, but the ability of grasping the vast extent of all that is involved in a life-saving process. The lectures, the questions, the discussions, the blogs, were minute attempts to explain the dynamics of the doctrine of salvation. Salvation is the theme of the Bible, and many books and articles have been written on salvation in an effort to explain the process. The Adventist Biblical Research Institute, in an attempt to comprehend, and to share their understanding of what is entailed in the process of salvation have presented several documents on the subject. One particular article entitled “The Dynamics of Salvation” compiled through ongoing study of the subject over the years, describes the story of salvation as “inexhaustible”, encompassing the mystery of evil, and the mystery of Divine love. The article highlights the fallen condition of humanity, God’s intervention to reverse this condition, human acceptance of Divine love through faith, and the new life that results from accepting the Divine love.
To think that salvation encompasses the mystery of evil is just one aspect of the subject that can take an eternity to fathom. The relief that salvation also encompasses the mystery of Divine love for fallen humanity is another aspect only eternity can reveal. And yet eternity in itself is a factor in the dynamics of salvation. To be more precise, eternity is the end result of salvation. But if one should take into consideration the definition of eternity which means “infinite or endless”, it may seem like an oxymoron to say eternity is the end result of salvation. Probably a less complicated way to look at it is to simple accept and embrace the fact that salvation is eternal life. The essence of the mystery of Divine love is echoed in John 3:16 and John 17:3: For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Begotten Son, that whosever believes in Him, should not perish but have eternal live.” “Now this is eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.”
But in contemplating the matter of salvation and eternity one must pay attention to the sequences leading to eternity. Going back to the class discussion on how it is important to understand the literal and symbolic context of scripture it is necessary to see eternity in light of the future, but also the present. The decisions and choices one makes now (today) impact one’s eternal salvation. The harsh reality is that though salvation is a free gift made available to every human being, not everyone will accept this gift. Whether one accepts, or rejects the offer of salvation, there are futuristic implications that are on opposite side of the scale. And one cannot ignore the reality that even the daily, momentarily choices individuals make impact the process also, hence Peter’ admonition: “Seeing then…all these things…what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God.”
Response to Alexis Reflection #4
Well said Alexis. I agree with you that there is always a constant struggle between the flesh and the spirit. I like your closing emphasis on Romans 8 which provides the solution. Indeed, if we choose to live according to the sinful nature (the flesh) then we will be bent on satisfying the sinful desires. Yet it is reassuring to know that we can choose to be controlled by the spirit and overcome the flesh through the power that is available to us in Christ Jesus.
Reflection #3: Justification after a Class with Dr. Hanna
Historians today are redefining the division of eras by subtly replacing B.C. with B.C.E., and A.D. with C.E. This move made me think about how to redefine the eras of my life. For example, when tracing my understanding of justification throughout my lifetime, two periods will be definable: BH (Before Hanna) and AH (After Hanna). Okay, so things won’t be THAT drastic, but my readings from Dr. Whidden’s book has reminded me that there are defining points which will no doubt affect people for the rest of their lives. According to Paul in Romans 9-12, the Israelites have a similar point in their history when they officially rejected Jesus the Messiah. This paper will deal with these two defining moments (with support from BRI readings).
Paul’s writings in Romans 9-11 teach a sad truth: the so-called Jews of his day were not true children of Abraham (9:6-9). There are some election/calling/predestination passages that were difficult BH, but now I see that they fit into both God’s plan of salvation for all people (from Romans 8:28-30), and also that part of their calling was to be a “visible remnant” (9:4 [called for service to God, among other things], 30-32 [their own failures to understand God’s character became a stumbling block for others]). Many even resisted in their place in the “invisible remnant” (9:27) when they rejected Jesus Christ (10:14-21). Paul builds his case nearly exclusively on Old Testament passages in order to show that even their own writings condemn their efforts. HOWEVER, Paul does not leave them without opportunity for redemption – that’s where chapter 11 (all of it) offers the Jews the same grace of God that the Gentiles received. He strips the Jews down to nothing, and then offers them a robe that they don’t deserve. Their condemnation of Christ provided their unworthiness, yet ended up fitting into God’s plans perfectly. There was still hope to become true children of Abraham, but that hope lay in setting aside all and following Christ.
Adventism was headed down a similar path in the 1880’s: claiming to be Children of God, yet rejecting the message which He gave them for a message that they connected with more. In Dr. Whidden’s chapters relating to 1888 and justification by faith, we learn of all of the nuances of Ellen White’s writings as it relates to that history-defining event in Adventist history. One of the key phrases that pops up over and over again is “saved from sin, not in it.” I love that. We’re both saved from the quagmire we find ourselves in AND rinsed clean (with a reminder to not go back!). I love how Hanna-esque Dr. Whidden sounds when pointing out on p.69 that Ellen White taught both a faith that was so simple that it bordered on “cheap grace” and also a faith that was so intense that it bordered on perfectionism. Ellen White had a wholistic view of salvation, and Dr. Whidden didn’t cherry-pick statements from one tree or the other to support his agenda. (I hate when people do that with her writings!) (While I’m writing in parenthesis, let me point out how glad I was to see that I’m not the only person that thinks that the “1888 Message Study Committee” is totally off-base…page 89 was quite re-affirming to me!)
One other point relating to 1888 needs to be mentioned; Ellen White had it right from the beginning, even when other church leaders (likely including her husband!) scrambled to understand this radical new truth. 1888 only revealed to her that she needed to focus on that truth then more than anything else. Her doctrines didn’t change (some became more thorough, yes), but the frequency with which she wrote about some points did. I’m glad that Ellen White saw a balance in her teaching and adjusted as the needs of her peers changed. When they needed law, she preached law. When they needed grace, she preached grace. Am I that flexible and well-balanced as she is, or am I unintentionally ignoring the wholistic message that I’ve been called to preach in my AH era?
Reflection #2
I was researching for my paper and I came across Romans 2.1-3:
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment
That made me think a lot about our condition and the similarities between the Jews to whom Paul is writing here and us the seventh-day adventists. I feel that we have a lot in common and therefore this warning from Paul is also valid to us. The Jews felt superior because they thought of themselves as the chosen people of God, and that kindda gave them a silly assurance that somehow they had salvation kindda taken care of, well, at least the initiation of salvation, the ‘entering into’ salvation part. And then they were so proud and boastful of the Torah that they had to make retribution to God by obeying, and that way they’d attain salvation. But Paul attacks both reasons of boasting of the Jews and tells them that they’re blaspheming God’s name by not obeying the Law (but then again how can one obey the law perfectly?), and by not being circumcised in the heart.
I see in our Adventist reality the same boastful attitude. I know it has been like that for a long time, and I am not the only one to have noticed it or commented on it. What bothers me a lot is the fact that even with this ‘1888 Message’ people within our church, we haven’t really grasped the meaning of what justification by faith and righteousness through the blood of Jesus means. What I see time and time again is newer and somehow sophisticated ways of legalism, which are just wrapped up with ‘righteousness by faith’ gift-wrap. But underneath it all it’s the same ole legalism. Church-People still want to run their agendas by you and awe if you don’t agree! The following words of Paul just are too heavy, I think: 21you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24As it is written: “God’s name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”
In Response to Thomas Oyaro Ong'ou's Reflection #3
I really appreciated your comments. I really could not agree more. Jesus in Matthew 5 promises that will make us perfect and although the term there means complete, the meaning that you give to it makes it even broader and gets to the point. It is by our relationships with others, how we treat them, how we love them, forgive them, accept them, etc that we are made perfect (or our perfection is complete, for that matter)
Thank you Thomas
Response to Sevilla's 3rd Comment:
I like your reaction to our discussion in class. Santification is a process of ups and downs aiming that the ups and downs are to be 'upper' that the ones left behind.
Reflection #3
The focus of these next few lines will be directed to the following question. Is salvation a theistic concept? Before, I venture to treat this question it is necessary for me to first establish the context. I would contend that if a person has not attempted to answer the philosophical questions, that person probably does not really understand his or her worldview, which means he or she does not really understand his or her religion; consequently, that individual cannot make his or her beliefs relevant to his or her practice. In other words, my response to this question comes out of my story, a story which includes a system of beliefs, whether or not I have taken the time to explore those beliefs.
This question may tempt one to posit a very narrow and simplistic response; however, thoughtful consideration should be made in light of one’s worldview, assuming that there is such awareness. According to the article titled The Dynamics of Salvation the story of salvation possesses certain elements. First, it exposes the mystery of evil and opens the mystery of the cross through which divine love conquers evil. Second, it tells the desperate condition of the human family and God's plan and power to restore us into His image. Third, it is the incredibly good news that God has done for us and does in us what we could never do for ourselves and which we do not deserve.
According to the worldview of philosophical naturalism, I am a human being who has arrived on the scene as a consequence of the laws of nature, existing in an uncreated universe, a place where matter (or energy) has always existed. This worldview further states that there is nothing in me that has an origin, source or identity outside the matter and energy of the eternal, uncreated, material universe. Additionally, there is no transcendent power outside of the system—no primal Reality, Force, Energy, Being, Principle, or God.
Eastern pantheistic worldview is anchored on the premise of monism, which is the idea that the only reality of the universe is impersonal. This idea suggests that God is not a transcendent entity in the immaterial universe that interacts with his creation; instead, God is everything, and everything is God. The material world does not exist as a creative act of God, but is itself God. Each person is God for the reason that the soul of every human being is the soul of the cosmos. This idea is called Atman is Brahman. Atman is the essence of the human soul. Brahman is the essence of the entire universe.
Is salvation a theistic construct?
Response to Leno’s Reflection #2
I think it is necessary for us, as Adventists, to revisit our position as it relates to salvation. You built a reasoned argument in stating that many SDAs feel as if they have the monopoly on salvation. I also found interesting your suggestion that the church has not caught the essence of righteousness by faith, and still continues to practice newer ways of legalism. Is there an antidote to the madness?
Response to Jasmine’s Reflection #4
You hit the nail on the head when you suggested that only eternity is capable of revealing the essence and dynamics of salvation. Throughout your development on the subject matter you provided critical and competent analysis, and for that you ought to be commended. Questions came about when you said that “salvation is eternal life”? Is it possible that eternal life is more than just salvation? Is salvation only eternal life and nothing more?
Response to Jared Miller reflection #3
I appreciate your reflection especially by underscoring the importance of the balanced view between legalism and presumption – faith that lacks works of love. As we discussed it in class over and over, this is where the Advent church needs to put more emphasis since we often tend to be legalistic in our living and/or preaching. We need to teach the importance of obedience without making it our savior, and the danger of having presumptuous faith.
Response to Jared Miller reflection #3
I appreciate your reflection especially by underscoring the importance of the balanced view between legalism and presumption – faith that lacks works of love. As we discussed it in class over and over, this is where the Advent church needs to put more emphasis since we often tend to be legalistic in our living and/or preaching. We need to teach the importance of obedience without making it our savior, and the danger of having presumptuous faith.
Response to Jared Miller reflection #3
I appreciate your reflection especially by underscoring the importance of the balanced view between legalism and presumption – faith that lacks works of love. As we discussed it in class over and over, this is where the Advent church needs to put more emphasis since we often tend to be legalistic in our living and/or preaching. We need to teach the importance of obedience without making it our savior, and the danger of having presumptuous faith.
Response to Sevila’s reflection #2
I found a good reminder from your response on the aspect that we need to always search our hearts lest we slide into legalism even without knowing it. As you say, on can easily think that he has done away with legalism in his life only to find it still alive in the way of thinking. This is where its vitally important to keep watch lest we who think we are standing we fall into disbelieve.
Reflection #4
The past four weeks have not only been insightful, but very enlightening. The doctrine of salvation, though seemingly simple, is actually quite complex and utterly profound. There are many aspects and elements to salvation that need to be considered if a person is to grasp its true significance. These different facets need to be recognized and systematized if the doctrine of salvation is going to be truly understood. Missing, or ignoring, any part of what the bible teaches on Salvation is to miss the mark. This class has truly taught me to look at salvation in a more holistic fashion.
One thing that this class has taught me is the importance of getting back to the basics. As I said before, salvation may seem pretty straightforward and simple, but in reality its profundity is so overwhelming that we must constantly return to this subject to get an even clearer picture of what scripture is really trying to say. The moment we think we understand it, is the moment we need to go back to scriptures and study it again. God has so much to teach us on this subject, that we will have an eternity to contemplate its principles. We might as well start now.
Secondly, this class has taught me to think holistically about the scriptures. When it comes to studying the scriptures, we take what we like and ignore what we don’t like. We accept what we understand, and reject what we don’t understand. We avoid the unclear passages, while uplifting the clear ones. Unfortunately, this practice has led the way for people to reach extreme conclusions. In order to avoid going to one extreme or the other, we must take the scriptures in their entirety. We cannot ignore, avoid, or reject parts of scripture. We cannot create for ourselves a canon within a canon.
Thirdly, this class has taught me to not be afraid of the word perfection. The Bible clearly teaches a type of perfection, but we must understand what kind of perfection it is actually teaching. Instead of avoiding the word perfection, or the scripture passages that talk about perfection, I should endeavor to study what true Biblical perfection is. Having discovered it, I must make it my task to preach what true Biblical perfection is, and how it is evidenced in our day-to-day lives. I must not be ashamed of being perfect in Christ.
Finally, this class has taught me to think theologically while keeping it practical. What good is a thorough and exhaustive understanding of the doctrine of salvation if I don’t understand how it’s supposed to function in my life? The purpose of understanding what salvation is all about is so that it can change my life and transform my being. Knowledge, without praxis, is useless. It has no power. But a knowledge that is put into practice is not only powerful, but a true representation of what the Gospel is all about.
These four lessons have made the past four weeks very enjoyable. I understand the doctrine of salvation a little bit better. I am able to study the scriptures a little bit better. I can live my Christianity a little bit better. The class on salvation may have come to an end, but my desire to understand it more has not. I must continue to understand it, and I must continue to practice it in my life. This is what education is all about.
Reflection # 4
While I was researching for my paper on the topic “once saved always saved” I came across this text, which seems to pose a problem. Hebrews 6:4-6 says that "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift… if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subject Him to public disgrace." The question here is not whether one can lose its salvation or not, but rather that once a person fell away the text says that it is impossible to come back. This statement has troubled me. I know based on many other texts of the Bible that God accepts us back, only if we choose to do so. Jesus Himself made it clear many times that our heavenly Father wants to take us back if we do stray. One of many examples is the story of the Prodigal Son. Then, how do we interpret this passage?
I’ve read one comment that made sense to me so I want to share it in this reflection. This passage goes beyond the issue of salvation. A lot of New Testament passages deal with the issue that once they have become saved, different people have different levels of success in their walk with God. Apostle Paul writes quite extensively on this topic. This is the sanctification process. In simple words Paul says, "OK, now that you've begun this journey, here's how to live it." The whole thought process is how to grow as a Christian. Never is there any thought given to the idea of becoming a non-Christian. The key for interpreting this passage is the word “impossible.” Why does this passage say that it is "impossible" to be brought back to God? The actual statement is that it is impossible to be brought back to repentance. While it is true that one must repent to become a new Christian, one need not be a new Christian to repent. This phrase in the NIV is "brought back", but King James say it is impossible to renew them again. The question is, who's doing the renewing? It may be impossible for you or me to bring them back, but that doesn't mean that God cannot. This idea of what is "impossible" shows up in Jesus’ teachings in the Gospels. In Luke 18:27 He says that what is impossible with men is possible with God. So we shouldn’t let the word 'impossible' fool us into thinking that this passage in Hebrews means that there is no way a saved person can leave God and come back.
So if this passage isn’t about the loss of salvation, what is it about? A key to the answer to that question is in the second half of verse 6, which says 'since they again crucify Jesus'. This is where the context is useful. Hebrews 5:11-14 through 6:1-3 Paul talks about moving on to maturity. He says that it is enough living on milk. It is time to start eating solid food. In other words, let's stop going on about the fact that faith, not works, is what gets you salvation, let's talk about how to grow in Christ now that you have become a child of God. " It is important to keep in mind who he was writing to. The recipients of this letter were Hebrews, a group of folks who had a hard time getting rid of the concept of salvation by works. The writer is imploring the Hebrews: Jesus paid for your sins with His death, now accept it and move on. Bottom line: this passage is about performance-based Christianity. The frustrating thing for the author of Hebrews is that once these people have accepted salvation as a free gift, some have fallen back into their old ways of thinking that works is what saves you, and that is the “falling away” mentioned in verse 6. The author is warning them (and us) that once someone gets the whole idea of salvation as a free gift, and then blows it off, then that person is going to have a hard time growing in Christ.
Response to Jared Miller’s reflection #3
I appreciate your reflection especially by underscoring the importance of the balanced view between legalism and presumption – faith that lacks works of love. As we discussed it in class over and over, this is where the Advent church needs to put more emphasis since we often tend to be legalistic in our living and/or preaching. We need to teach the importance of obedience without making it our savior, and the danger of having presumptuous faith.
Response to Bledi Leno Reflection # 2.
I really appreciate your comments. You have reminded us that we as a church need to make some changes the way we approach the question of salvation and legalism. We as a church have been really legalistic and it is time to change, but it is important to remember not too fall in the other extreme. I think that if we are to change anything, it has to start with individual members, it has to start with us.
Response to Jonathan Martin's Reflection # 4.
Thank you Jonathan for summarizing the lessons from the past three weeks. I couldn't agree with you more that one of the most important thing in the study of Salvation is the holistic approach. I think that Dr. Hanna did a great job in the class constantly reminding this principle to us. We have to put all facts together before we make conclusions.
Reflection #4
There are times I reflect on the necessity of validating my identity as Christian in a logical manner. Considering that “faith” is employed in about every facet in life, why can’t I simply use a faith-based argument to support my religious convictions? Why should I have to resort to the employment of reason and logic, or provide evidence for the purpose of expressing why I believe the things I do? I assume that people with questions usually ask my opinion, not for the purpose of changing their views, but for the sake of conversation.
Salvation is by faith. With that being the case, wouldn’t it be best to simply tell an inquiring person to take a “leap" of faith and accept my understanding of Christianity, instead of attempting to explain biblical truths based on what I “think” the Bible is saying? The article titled, Salvation by Faith suggests that faith has both a subjective and objective element to it. My focus is on neither the subjective, nor the objective aspect of faith as posited by the article. The faith to which I am alluding is the one which enables a person to sit on a chair without first verifying its stability, or the faith which allows a person to eat at a restaurant without first finding out if the food contains arsenic, or the faith which assumes that I will be able to write or read the next few lines.
As it relates to sharing good news of salvation, does it necessitate a “faith-based” argument? Is its promulgation dependent on my ability to explain it well? The apostle Peter did say to Always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you. Going back to my point on reason and logic, I do believe that faith is the starting place in being able to share or receive the gospel. I also believe that if a person has the wherewithal to share his or her religious beliefs in a coherent and logical manner, and provide supporting evidence, then it is all the more efficacious.
Whether or not a person is able to provide evidence to support his or her belief, in seeking to know and understand, the receiver cannot but help to employ faith. In this postmodern world I do believe that one way by which to reach people is to first know one’s story. Second, I should know the strengths and challenges of other people’s stories (they certainly know ours). Third, and most importantly, I should be able to retell the story of others in such a way to show how the challenges of their stories are met with the strengths of my story. Finally, providing evidence in support of my religious convictions does not eliminate faith, it just makes the “leap” an intelligent leap, not a blind one.
In response to sevilla's
Assignment #2
I totally agree on the statement that the Salvation is just a life itself. I tended to divide the salvation into several steps when I try to explain it to others. I thought that could be sound more logical to the listener and help them understand it better. However, as you said there can’t be division between justification and sanctification. Because, all those are the result of the same start accepting Jesus Christ as a personal savior.
Reaction #5 to Stephen Lee #3
You said something in your reflection, just in passing, that really caught my attention. You said that although our doctrines are sourced in Scripture, our different interpretations and understandings can ultimately make the Word say different things (my paraphrase, hopefully that's your intent). This is soooo true. It's amazing to look at the number of fights and battles going on in our church between camps who read the exact same words in two (or more) different ways. We even see this in how to interpret EGW, and she's 19 centuries more recent than the newest Scriptures! This has been Satan's goal all along: twist and distort our interpretations of the Word of God into something contrary to God's spirit. "Has God really said...?"
The rest of your post was quite insightful as well...
Reaction #6 to Jonathan Martin #4:
There were two points in here that really stood out to me. First, you talked about the struggle to take your theoretical knowledge and turn it practical. It's great that we know how perfection works (without going all perfectionistic and stuff), but how do we teach our members? If you can come up with a good system, I'd like to hear it.
Second, you mentioned that after 4 weeks, you know the doctrine of salvation "a little bit better". I don't know about you, but I'm guessing that there are many people out there who already "know it all" when it comes to salvation; after all, they were baptized. What else is there to know? Dr. Hanna really did a good job of opening up to us just how much there is left to learn (most of which is a mystery to us still), and I can agree that compared to what's left to learn - I only learned a little bit too. :-)
Response to Jared Miller’s reflection #3
I appreciate your reflection especially by underscoring the importance of the balanced view between legalism and presumption – faith that lacks works of love. As we discussed it in class over and over, this is where the Advent church needs to put more emphasis since we often tend to be legalistic in our living and/or preaching. We need to teach the importance of obedience without making it our savior, and the danger of having presumptuous faith.
For years I have been hearing the “once saved always saved” theological belief from many different people. There were several times when the Spirit of the Lord gave me wisdom and I avoided the passionate debates among several of my best friends. In such situations the conversation was redirected to areas where we could lift the name of our Savior, thus avoiding anger. As I read the various articles, scriptures and EGW writings, I began to see something that for years I had been missing about this “once saved always saved” theology. I start with the understanding that there would be no need for salvation if sin did not exist. As we know humans are created in the image of God (Gen. 1:27). God then places man in the Garden, where the trees of life - good and evil were located (Gen. 2:8-9). Man was to work the garden and be observant of Gods commands, by not eating from the tree of good and evil, but that command was violated (Gen. 2:15-17; 3:1-9). It is often said that sin began there, in the Garden of Eden, but scripture indicates otherwise. In actually sin unfolded in the heart of a high-ranking angelical leader (known as Diabolos in Greek) within God’s kingdom, who wanted to be like God, if not greater than God (Eze. 28:17; Jude 6; Isa 14:12-1; 1 Tim. 3:6). As a result Satan and his followers were cast out from heaven (Luke 10:18; Rev. 12:4, 7-9). The argument, which I pose in the form of a question, is this: Since the “Morning Star” and all the angels that followed him were at one time all obedient followers of God, who in a sense had been secured in a heavenly place, fell, are we humans then not susceptible to the same? Additionally, as the story unfolds throughout scripture we read nothing stating that the “great deceiver” and his followers are ever saved. In actually scripture states that they will be destroyed (Rev. 19:20, 20:10). Given than, that these heavenly angelical beings fell and afterwards were never saved, can one reach a conclusion that once we humans are saved we will never fall or be saved afterwards? I do believe that God wants all to be saved. I also believe that God would even forgive Satan, and all his followers, if they were to repent. If God did not wish for all to be saved then Jesus would have never arrived unto the scene. The fact that sin abounds we need a being that can defeat sin. This is where Jesus steps in. In conclusion, it seems to me that biblical story shows that beings have free will, and when such is exercised in love, obedience and humility there can be a sense of security. To exercise ones free will in an unloving, disobedient and prideful manner, and never repent from such, one then has entered a fallen unsecure state; just like the angelical beings that were once in heaven, but fell. May we not be easily deceived into believing that we can never fall. If angels can fall, so can humans.
Comment by Ghenadie Girleanu Reflection # 4.
I was drawn by your comments and thoughts on the issues of salvation. I too have struggled with that same text and its meaning. Can we not be, after we have been? This is a subject worthy of further study. I get the sense that you wanted to say more, but as we know, space is limited here. Thanks for sharing.
Ghenadie Girleanu...
Thanks for your obsevation that delusion affects masses in the process of understanding salvation.I also faced the same situation in my country of origin.Partly it was due to the literalistc interpratation of the Scriptures and the Ellen White writings.However, time seems to have healed the wound except for a few individuals who still live in the self-made perfect world.I may not have a concrete answers but have realized that there is power in the gospel if presented in the humility of the holy spirit.Indeed presenting the gospel plainly without trying to coerce people to believing in what we believe,is likely to bring understanding and change,through the convicting power of the holy spirit.Theological understanding on how to interpret the scriptures (which we have received in class)is another great resource that that may prove valuable.Otherwise the Lord in his abundant goodness will supply more answers as we go out to serve.
Bledi Leno... Reflection #2
I agree that you have touched where it hurts in our church system.The idea of judging others seem prevalent. Most probably, I think the problem lies in the failure to discover our grouping into liberalism and conservatism.We actually do not have room to judge others because we are all sinful.In our effort to judge them, we definitely use ourselves, our convictions and our point of view as the standard.This proves detrimental at the end for it makes them resistant instead of being penitent.Our measure ought to be Jesus who left heaven and made himself a sevant lower than we are in order to save us.
Stephan Albers
Reflection #1 part A
(I know this is wayyy too long, but I felt compelled (doesn't happen often) to post it this way and not to boil it down. It's in two parts this is part A. Don't worry the rest will be shorter)
The last bit of the cool morning breeze was lifting away as I sat there in my car at the Wendy’s fast food parking lot. It was a bit early for lunch, but I skipped breakfast and my stomach was begging to be saved from the evils of empty hungriness. I looked at my watch, “I still have 30 minutes till I have to go to work.” I looked up from my watch and jumped in my seat.
Just moments prior the lot was empty around me, not a soul in sight, but suddenly looking through the window right me was some man, affected by many years that had been less than kind to him. He knocked on my window, “Excuse me sir, I feel incredibly embarrassed but, could you spare a dollar? Maybe just some change? I am so hungry… could you spare a dollar so I can get a small burger off the 99 cent menu?”
I looked the man in his eyes, sizing him up to see if he was one of the many “pseudo-beggars” I had met in the past. Yet something about this man was different. I paused… “Let’s go on in sir.”
We went inside and I told him to order whatever he wanted. His eyes looked up and down that menu. I waited, expecting him to order a full meal and then he paused, “Yes, I would like the 99cent burger and fry.”
I looked at him, “Sir, order what you want. Price doesn’t matter.”
He looked at me and then looked down almost ashamedly in a way. “No sir. Just the burger and fry will do.”
“ummm… okay…” I thought to myself. I stepped up to the register, my stomach pleading to be released from hunger, and ordered a big meal.
We sat down together and began to eat. I asked him where he was from and he gave me his story. Starting from his boyhood, through his story of fighting in Vietnam, past his attempts to multiply his wealth, and how he lost it all and was now living in a broken down van in some parking lot across town, but there was hope. Although he couldn’t find work up in Washington, where we were, and even the small odd jobs were getting harder and harder to get, there was supposedly a job waiting for him in Arizona. No if only he could get there.
“How do you plan to get to Arizona?” I asked as part of me waited to here a plea for money.
“Well sir, I’m working on finding some more odd jobs here and there. If I can get a few more I can get my van running again and then off to Arizona.”
By now I had finished my meal and the seemingly eternal hunger had been banished. The man looked at me and looked at his tiny hamburger and itsy bitsy order of fries. He had been careful to eat only half.
“Well it looks like your done sir” he said, “I should probably be going.”
He sat the burger down on its wrapper, set a few fries next to it, wrapped it up and slipped into the pocket of his coat. “Thank you for dinner too.”
“Sir, let me order you more for dinner.”
“No, you’ve already helped me” he replied.
“No really, here’s 10 dollars. Go buy yourself dinner later.”
“No… but thank you.”
He stood up to leave. I arose to meet him. He shook my hand and thanked me again as he turned to leave. I asked if I could pray with him and his endeavor and he consented
I walked back to my car and started up the engine. “This isn’t right, this man needs to eat tonight.” I drove around to the other side of the lot to where he was walking, but he was gone. He was nowhere to be seen. As quickly as he appeared he had vanished.
Stephan Albers
Reflection #1 Part B
How often I see myself and others do something similar on such a more tragic level. As I read Romans, as I study the rest of the scriptures, as I grow more and more in my knowledge of salvation, I find that it is so wonderful, awesome, amazing and inspiring that no words can describe it and I am left speechless in awe and wonder that God would sacrifice so much and work so hard to save something like myself.
Nevertheless I read that God desires that none should perish. That whoever believes in Him, that is Christ, shall not perish. That Christ laid down his life for us, for me. That we who are burdened and heavy laden should go to Him and we shall receive rest. That those of us who confess our sins to Him, who repent of our wrong doing, are not only forgiven, but cleansed! That there is no evil so great that can be greater than the salvation offered, for where sin abounds, grace abounds much more. That there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ. And that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Yet still … yet still, I find within myself and among others this thing, this thought, that says all this isn’t true that there’s some limit to my screw ups, that there is only a set number of failures permitted. Like I only have so many strikes until I’m out and done for. That the 490th time is it.
Therefore I must be perfect in a perfectionist legalistic sort of way, and when failure comes I feel this urge to not turn to Christ (after all this could be sin 491). Instead I must atone for myself somehow or do something on my own to negate that sin and to be saved and filled with peace; to reach my Arizona if you will. It boggles my mind, cause I know that is heresy, but yet the pride that is within me compels me to do it.
I am like that man I met at Wendy’s. To proud to admit I can’t do it on my own even though I admit it, too ashamed of myself to go to Jesus. That man refused the help of food banks and churches and was trying to work enough to get out his hell hole, like I feel the urge to refuse that forgiveness and try to escape sin on my own. And finally when I’m so emptied and drained in spirit and I go to Jesus and ask for forgiveness, I somehow expect and seek something small, like that man sought a 99 cent burger and fry when I was seeking to fill him up and send off with more.
Yet I have learned in my head and am learning in my heart that such heresy should be rejected. Jesus paid the ultimate price to save us. Now if we only let Him save us! My thought and my charge to you are to do the same. To let go of pride that strives to save self, that strives to achieve heaven by some natural merit we conjure up within us. It is only by grace through faith in Jesus that we are saved. So remember that the next time you feel that way and you ask Jesus for forgiveness, accept the fullness of His grace and love. Don’t seek a 99 cent version of it.
Nyarige Samuel Juma
Response # 4
Addressing Liberalism and Conservatism in our Church.
Finding the balance between conservatism and liberalism is very pivotal in our upward growth in relation to salvation because the ideologies are a reflection of how one perceives the truth which I may probably refer to a spiritual “world-view”. The imperative element is that generally these ideologies have, are and will in the future influence the church directly or indirectly in matters of faith and lifestyle. The greatest challenge that leaders encounter is how to handle a church that is composed of people with differing ideas on matters of faith and lifestyles, and yet remain biblically faithful without offending anyone. I grew up in a church society that operates communally and tends to subscribe towards conservatism, with the tendency of clearly defining standards on matters of dress and adornment, health, personal relations, liturgy, and general conduct so that they almost become the injunctions of God Himself. Behaving against these standards is seen as violating the basics of salvation. This idea of setting standards has cost more harm than help to the church in the understanding of salvation (the free gift of God). In this environment, doors have been closed towards understanding liberalism and what it can offer.
The reluctance to give in to liberal ideologies results from negative impressions which are received from Western cultures. In my “communal “culture, daily life and spiritual life have a slight demarcation, a line so tiny if not almost invisible in Western cultures. Conservatism seems overwhelmed in the Western cultures by the other ideology because of a rather individualistic lifestyle which gives much room for personal expression a converse element in my culture. Generally, the church is faced with the challenge of handling both ideologies in all cultures. These ideologies are not really new in history. David was misunderstood and labeled wrongly by his own wife. Jesus was generally looked at as bringing new theology by the Pharisees and Scribes, Paul met opposition and addressed the issues of differences in his ministry, and Ellen White encountered differences on the idea of perfection resulting from differing groups. As long as we live in the world, we shall for sure encounter these groups and as spiritual leaders at any level, we are not less vulnerable in finding comfortable ground in either of them. How do we then find a balance? Indeed I am grateful for Dr Hanna’s analysis and various contributions from fellow course-mates in this area. Neither of the groups can claim to have absolute truth and influence over the whole Christendom. Absolute reality lies somewhere in the middle line. The most important element is to understand and respect the perceptions of each group as long as they are subject to thus “says the Lord”. Practically, in process of understanding salvation, we will unconsciously use both ideologies because they tend to overlap each other in daily life. Since we will definitely belong to either of the groups, our duty should not be having everyone believing in what we believe regardless of our position or level of influence in the church. Paul gives the best admonition; “Finally brethren, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things” (Philippians 4:8).The class has been a real blessing to me. May God bless Dr. Hannah and the great ladies and gentlemen who made it a success.
Reflection # 1
While reading through those articles of Biblical Research Institute I have gained some worthy insights about salvation. Yet some concepts are still hard to understand clearly and I believe I have to struggle for more time on those, some other explanations and brilliant questions has lead me closer to the profound and biblical understanding.
One of the articles that I read with great interest was ‘Why Did Jesus Die? How God Saves Us’. Just looking at the title of it, I could easily notice that this writing is trying to explain the very basic but the most important element of the Salvation which is the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. The author first came out with the idea of a Jesus’ death as a ransom price. We, as a Christian, are quite familiar with the ransom idea because we have heard it many times. However, the author brought out the intriguing question regarding the pagan understanding of the ransom price. The question was ‘if Jesus was ransomed, who collected the ransom price?’ It is obvious that there has to be the one who is receiving the ransom. According to the pagan understanding of ransom, usually ransom functions as similar as the bribery. It usually takes place to comfort the rage of gods or to please god expecting to receive blessings. I’ve noticed that even though I have never confiscated on those pagan religion somehow I was exposed to those ideas and some times unconsciously thought God as the one who demands ransom in order to be reconcile with him. It seems like a simple transition of thinking. However, this simple looking viewpoint turns out to be huge when it came to the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, because this pagan idea may change the reason of the death of Jesus and that changes the whole work of salvation merciless. It could be the logical basement of saying ‘Jesus Christ was sacrificed to please God and to comfort his anger therefore to reconcile us with God. This dangerous misunderstanding of work of Salvation become clear when he indicates that it was God’s love which led him to the point of sacrifice. He says ‘In Christ’s death is no hint of the Saviour’s effort to win the favor of the Father. With that favor already in had, his confidence carried Him to Calvary’
Deeply meditating the scene of the Calvary especially focusing on the picture of Jesus Christ on the cross, I could acutely sense the great love of God toward human revealed through the death of Jesus Christ knowing the fact that the resurrection of Jesus Christ symbolizes the resurrection of sinners who accepts Christ, and God is the one who initiate the whole work of salvation. He wasn’t the receiver of the ransom but the organizer of the ransom and all the benefit through the ransom was given to humankind as the name of salvation, eternal life, and ultimate reconciliation with God.
After reading the article, it’s been clearer to answer the previous question ‘who collected the ransom?’ If this question is asking who the ransom was for? I would say ‘we did’ because we are the one who’s gained the most benefit from the sacrifice of the Son which is the climax of love of God by the name of mercy.
@ Paul Muniz
Re: Blog # 3
I like your thoughts and relfection. I agree with you in your conclusion where you state that the Bible story shows that we have free will and exercising it in disobedience to God leads to sin. Otherwise sin would be impossible unless God Himself was the arcitect!
I think there is so much more to be said, just not the space to say it.
@Nyarige
Re: Response #4
I wholeheartedly agree that we need to avoid extremism. Yet I suggest that we reject the labels liberalism and conservatism altogether in a pursuit of truth. Perhaps we are saying the same thing in different ways.
My focus is on truth, wherever it is. Therefore I don't see myself as liberal, conservative or moderate, but rather a truth seeker. And I think that Philippians 4:8 exhorts us to do that, to seek and dwell on God's truth.
Wherever people try to stick me on that spectrum let them. But I refuse those labels.
Reaction #7 to Stephan Albers' Reflection #1:
What a powerful illustration of how pride keeps us from accepting the fullness of the Gospel - I'm totally going to "borrow" that for a sermon someday, lol. There is just something so humiliating in asking for help that we often try to get away with as little assistance as possible, especially when we take Jesus' teachings literalistically about the "70 times 7" times forgiven thing (and think we're going to run out of opportunities).
Reaction #8 to Peter Injae Son's Reflection #1:
Very interesting summary and commentary on that particular article. I'm inspired to go out and read it myself based on your reflection. Thank you!
Trung Hoang
Reflection #3
Perfection and Closing Events…
The subject of the character perfection of God’s people during the time of trouble is a hot topic not only during Mrs. White’s time, but throughout Adventist’s existence. Because of her quote in GC 425 that God’s people will have to “stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator,” people who favor perfectionism understand this statement to sinless perfection. They interpret that God’s people reach to the sinless perfection that they no longer have sin and therefore, do not need Christ’s mediation.
For as long as we live on this sinful earth, we will have human sinful nature. However, we as long as we yield to Christ, we are considered to be perfect in God’s eyes. Many Christians live in such fear that if they make any mistake or commit any sin they think they lose their salvation. That’s why they stress so much in perfectionism. No matter what we do and how we try it, we’re never going to get perfect on our own. The more we concentrate in getting rid of bad habits, avoiding temptations, or disciplining our selves with our efforts, the farther we fall from God’s grace.
The longer we walk with God the more we understand the need of God’s salvation. If we surrender to God and allow Him to restore His image in us, we will recognize how bad of a sinner we are. This is a good thing for we must depend on Christ even more for eternal security. That brings us to another point. If have know in whom we put our faith in and receive the eternal security, we should not live in constant fear of losing our salvation.
I’m not down playing the consequence of sin, but concentrate more in God’s grace. I admit that I’m weak, but He is strong. Christians must walk confidently with the guide of the Holy Spirit knowing that God’s patient, kind, and compassionate. How else can we preach to others around us than a joyful and anxious-free lives that they can put their trust in the same source that give us salvation.
In response to Trung Hoang
Reflection #3
Nice writing about human perfection and salvation. It reminds me that the fact that justifying work has been done not by our faith in Him but by His faith on us.
@ Trung Hoang
Re: Reflection 3
Amen brother! I really appreciate your clear exhortation of truth. I think we all need to remember these truths and teach them often.
@ Paul Injae Son
Re: Reflection #1
Isn't it something how pagan ideas and images can be brought over almost unaware into Christianity and cloud the depth of God's Word?
I like your reflection. It led me to go over that article and see more into what ransom really means.
Thanks dude!
Reflection number 4
One of the hindrances to living the Christian life successfully is failure to understand what the Bible teaches on the nature of sin and perfection. According to my understanding we can define sin according to the book of Psalms 51:2, 3, in three basic concepts. Wash me thoroughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgression and my sin is ever before me. Iniquity is a condition of sinfulness, Sin means to miss the mark, and transgression is a deliberate violation of law. The Bible, in applying the term perfection to believers, never means sinlessness. The Bible writers are not saying that these men are sinless. The meaning is that of spiritual maturity, full grown spiritually, ripe in spiritual understanding, whole in response to God, keeping nothing back. A "perfect" Christian is one whose heart and mind is permanently committed to Christ, cannot be moved. If one's view of sin is shallow enough, sinless perfection would not be an impossible achievement. It is a defective view of sin that leads to a wrong understanding of perfection. If sin simply means a deliberate, willful doing of what is known to be wrong, then no Christian should commit this kind of sin. But if sin includes also a man's state of mind and heart, man's bias toward sin, sin as an indwelling tendency, then perfection presents a totally different picture.
Hi Sevilla
Thanks for your good comment. Also include glorification as part of salvation.
Hi Allex, thanks for your discussion about the law. The is a school masterto direct us to our savior and lord Jesus Christ.
Ghenadie Girleanu
Reflection #3
I gretly appreciate that you hit where it hurts in our chuch.I also faced the same challenge of people becoming 'off-shoots' in my country of origin. I may not wholesomely have concrete answers but let me give the following.Seemingly part of the reason for this happenning was and may be reading the scriptures and the Ellen White writings too literalistically.The other element maybe lack of proper understanding on salvation as a multi-facet idea involving a continous process of growth till Christ appears on the clouds of heaven(consumation). The antidote for this problem maybe to read the Scriptures and the E. White in a balanced and humble spirit in subjection to thus 'says the Lord'
Alexis...
On diet and salvation.
I surely agree with your analysis on the place of diet in relation to salvation.Indeed many a times I have seen people condemned for still eating against reformation rules while on church registers.There seem to be failure in understanding that reformation does not add anything to our perfection or earn us God's favour.It has a place in keeping us healthy in this life, but beyond that we still need the forgiveness of sins on a daily basis. In condemning others, we loose the element of being in the same basket of a sinful nature.May be the best approach is to find a true balance in positive daily living and continous perfection only in Christ.
Reflection #4
I found it good to read through the topic “Christian Perfection”, and here are the main points that I grabbed for myself: fist, a serious problem begins with the attached meaning or the understanding we give to the word “perfection”. If it’s understood to mean “sinlessness” then it goes a long way into teaching heresy. However, since the word is used in the bible (borrowing Dr. Hannah’s language), we need not fight it but define it and use it in its proper way.
If the term “perfection” as used in the bible is taken to mean sinlessness, it gets the bible into contradictions. The same bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10) After than how can it again say be the opposite?
Perfection in the way it is used in the bible carries a meaning of spiritual maturity and ripening in spiritual understanding. It has some aspect of full surrender to God and letting Him take over, subjecting our will into his and letting Him lead as Lord of our lives. It has to do with seeking only God’s glory and prying as Christ did, “not my will but thine O Lord.”
We can not afford to forget the point Paul makes when he says, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil 3:12-14)
The Apostle does not look at himself as having made it to sinlessness, but rather still remembers that he can still preach to others and fall back into sin. And this is a good reminder to ourselves that there is nothing like “once saved always saved” situation in Christian experience. If that were the case, at least Paul would not write as he did in the above text.
There is always room for improvement in Christian journey and there is always need for relying on Christ. Perfectionism will lead to self righteousness and spiritual pride as seen in the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector.
It’s important though, to remember too that Christian life should be a continuous growth, gaining new heights every day. There should be spiritual maturity, where by the grace of Christ keeps gaining victory over sinful tendencies, but there is never a time when one will exclaim, “am now done, I can never sin anymore neither can I fall from by spirituality!”
This study interacts well with what our discussions have been in the class with special emphasis on the topic made by Dr. M. Hannah. Much of what he said in class came into mind as I was reading on this topic and I appreciate his lessons. This is for sure an important lesson for all Christians especially Adventists, lest we who think are standing we fall and we who think we are first we come in last.
Reflection #4
I found it good to read through the topic “Christian Perfection”, and here are the main points that I grabbed for myself: fist, a serious problem begins with the attached meaning or the understanding we give to the word “perfection”. If it’s understood to mean “sinlessness” then it goes a long way into teaching heresy. However, since the word is used in the bible (borrowing Dr. Hannah’s language), we need not fight it but define it and use it in its proper way.
If the term “perfection” as used in the bible is taken to mean sinlessness, it gets the bible into contradictions. The same bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10) After than how can it again say be the opposite?
Perfection in the way it is used in the bible carries a meaning of spiritual maturity and ripening in spiritual understanding. It has some aspect of full surrender to God and letting Him take over, subjecting our will into his and letting Him lead as Lord of our lives. It has to do with seeking only God’s glory and prying as Christ did, “not my will but thine O Lord.”
We can not afford to forget the point Paul makes when he says, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil 3:12-14)
The Apostle does not look at himself as having made it to sinlessness, but rather still remembers that he can still preach to others and fall back into sin. And this is a good reminder to ourselves that there is nothing like “once saved always saved” situation in Christian experience. If that were the case, at least Paul would not write as he did in the above text.
There is always room for improvement in Christian journey and there is always need for relying on Christ. Perfectionism will lead to self righteousness and spiritual pride as seen in the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector.
It’s important though, to remember too that Christian life should be a continuous growth, gaining new heights every day. There should be spiritual maturity, where by the grace of Christ keeps gaining victory over sinful tendencies, but there is never a time when one will exclaim, “am now done, I can never sin anymore neither can I fall from by spirituality!”
This study interacts well with what our discussions have been in the class with special emphasis on the topic made by Dr. M. Hannah. Much of what he said in class came into mind as I was reading on this topic and I appreciate his lessons. This is for sure an important lesson for all Christians especially Adventists, lest we who think are standing we fall and we who think we are first we come in last.
Reflection #4
I found it good to read through the topic “Christian Perfection”, and here are the main points that I grabbed for myself: fist, a serious problem begins with the attached meaning or the understanding we give to the word “perfection”. If it’s understood to mean “sinlessness” then it goes a long way into teaching heresy. However, since the word is used in the bible (borrowing Dr. Hannah’s language), we need not fight it but define it and use it in its proper way.
If the term “perfection” as used in the bible is taken to mean sinlessness, it gets the bible into contradictions. The same bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10) After than how can it again say be the opposite?
Perfection in the way it is used in the bible carries a meaning of spiritual maturity and ripening in spiritual understanding. It has some aspect of full surrender to God and letting Him take over, subjecting our will into his and letting Him lead as Lord of our lives. It has to do with seeking only God’s glory and prying as Christ did, “not my will but thine O Lord.”
We can not afford to forget the point Paul makes when he says, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil 3:12-14)
The Apostle does not look at himself as having made it to sinlessness, but rather still remembers that he can still preach to others and fall back into sin. And this is a good reminder to ourselves that there is nothing like “once saved always saved” situation in Christian experience. If that were the case, at least Paul would not write as he did in the above text.
There is always room for improvement in Christian journey and there is always need for relying on Christ. Perfectionism will lead to self righteousness and spiritual pride as seen in the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector.
It’s important though, to remember too that Christian life should be a continuous growth, gaining new heights every day. There should be spiritual maturity, where by the grace of Christ keeps gaining victory over sinful tendencies, but there is never a time when one will exclaim, “am now done, I can never sin anymore neither can I fall from by spirituality!”
This study interacts well with what our discussions have been in the class with special emphasis on the topic made by Dr. M. Hannah. Much of what he said in class came into mind as I was reading on this topic and I appreciate his lessons. This is for sure an important lesson for all Christians especially Adventists, lest we who think are standing we fall and we who think we are first we come in last.
Reflection #4
I found it good to read through the topic “Christian Perfection”, and here are the main points that I grabbed for myself: fist, a serious problem begins with the attached meaning or the understanding we give to the word “perfection”. If it’s understood to mean “sinlessness” then it goes a long way into teaching heresy. However, since the word is used in the bible (borrowing Dr. Hannah’s language), we need not fight it but define it and use it in its proper way.
If the term “perfection” as used in the bible is taken to mean sinlessness, it gets the bible into contradictions. The same bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10) After than how can it again say be the opposite?
Perfection in the way it is used in the bible carries a meaning of spiritual maturity and ripening in spiritual understanding. It has some aspect of full surrender to God and letting Him take over, subjecting our will into his and letting Him lead as Lord of our lives. It has to do with seeking only God’s glory and prying as Christ did, “not my will but thine O Lord.”
We can not afford to forget the point Paul makes when he says, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil 3:12-14)
The Apostle does not look at himself as having made it to sinlessness, but rather still remembers that he can still preach to others and fall back into sin. And this is a good reminder to ourselves that there is nothing like “once saved always saved” situation in Christian experience. If that were the case, at least Paul would not write as he did in the above text.
There is always room for improvement in Christian journey and there is always need for relying on Christ. Perfectionism will lead to self righteousness and spiritual pride as seen in the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector.
It’s important though, to remember too that Christian life should be a continuous growth, gaining new heights every day. There should be spiritual maturity, where by the grace of Christ keeps gaining victory over sinful tendencies, but there is never a time when one will exclaim, “am now done, I can never sin anymore neither can I fall from by spirituality!”
This study interacts well with what our discussions have been in the class with special emphasis on the topic made by Dr. M. Hannah. Much of what he said in class came into mind as I was reading on this topic and I appreciate his lessons. This is for sure an important lesson for all Christians especially Adventists, lest we who think are standing we fall and we who think we are first we come in last.
Reflection #4
I found it good to read through the topic “Christian Perfection”, and here are the main points that I grabbed for myself: fist, a serious problem begins with the attached meaning or the understanding we give to the word “perfection”. If it’s understood to mean “sinlessness” then it goes a long way into teaching heresy. However, since the word is used in the bible (borrowing Dr. Hannah’s language), we need not fight it but define it and use it in its proper way.
If the term “perfection” as used in the bible is taken to mean sinlessness, it gets the bible into contradictions. The same bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10) After than how can it again say be the opposite?
Perfection in the way it is used in the bible carries a meaning of spiritual maturity and ripening in spiritual understanding. It has some aspect of full surrender to God and letting Him take over, subjecting our will into his and letting Him lead as Lord of our lives. It has to do with seeking only God’s glory and prying as Christ did, “not my will but thine O Lord.”
We can not afford to forget the point Paul makes when he says, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil 3:12-14)
The Apostle does not look at himself as having made it to sinlessness, but rather still remembers that he can still preach to others and fall back into sin. And this is a good reminder to ourselves that there is nothing like “once saved always saved” situation in Christian experience. If that were the case, at least Paul would not write as he did in the above text.
There is always room for improvement in Christian journey and there is always need for relying on Christ. Perfectionism will lead to self righteousness and spiritual pride as seen in the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector.
It’s important though, to remember too that Christian life should be a continuous growth, gaining new heights every day. There should be spiritual maturity, where by the grace of Christ keeps gaining victory over sinful tendencies, but there is never a time when one will exclaim, “am now done, I can never sin anymore neither can I fall from by spirituality!”
This study interacts well with what our discussions have been in the class with special emphasis on the topic made by Dr. M. Hannah. Much of what he said in class came into mind as I was reading on this topic and I appreciate his lessons. This is for sure an important lesson for all Christians especially Adventists, lest we who think are standing we fall and we who think we are first we come in last.
Reflection #4
I found it good to read through the topic “Christian Perfection”, and here are the main points that I grabbed for myself: fist, a serious problem begins with the attached meaning or the understanding we give to the word “perfection”. If it’s understood to mean “sinlessness” then it goes a long way into teaching heresy. However, since the word is used in the bible (borrowing Dr. Hannah’s language), we need not fight it but define it and use it in its proper way.
If the term “perfection” as used in the bible is taken to mean sinlessness, it gets the bible into contradictions. The same bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10) After than how can it again say be the opposite?
Perfection in the way it is used in the bible carries a meaning of spiritual maturity and ripening in spiritual understanding. It has some aspect of full surrender to God and letting Him take over, subjecting our will into his and letting Him lead as Lord of our lives. It has to do with seeking only God’s glory and prying as Christ did, “not my will but thine O Lord.”
We can not afford to forget the point Paul makes when he says, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil 3:12-14)
The Apostle does not look at himself as having made it to sinlessness, but rather still remembers that he can still preach to others and fall back into sin. And this is a good reminder to ourselves that there is nothing like “once saved always saved” situation in Christian experience. If that were the case, at least Paul would not write as he did in the above text.
It’s important though, to remember too that Christian life should be a continuous growth, gaining new heights every day. There should be spiritual maturity, where by the grace of Christ keeps gaining victory over sinful tendencies, but there is never a time when one will exclaim, “am now done, I can never sin anymore neither can I fall from by spirituality!”
This study interacts well with what our discussions have been in the class with special emphasis on the topic made by Dr. M. Hannah. Much of what he said in class came into mind as I was reading on this topic and I appreciate his lessons. This is for sure an important lesson for all Christians especially Adventists, lest we who think are standing we fall and we who think we are first we come in last.
Reflection #4
I found it good to read through the topic “Christian Perfection”, and here are the main points that I grabbed for myself: fist, a serious problem begins with the attached meaning or the understanding we give to the word “perfection”. If it’s understood to mean “sinlessness” then it goes a long way into teaching heresy. However, since the word is used in the bible (borrowing Dr. Hannah’s language), we need not fight it but define it and use it in its proper way.
If the term “perfection” as used in the bible is taken to mean sinlessness, it gets the bible into contradictions. The same bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10) After than how can it again say be the opposite?
Perfection in the way it is used in the bible carries a meaning of spiritual maturity and ripening in spiritual understanding. It has some aspect of full surrender to God and letting Him take over, subjecting our will into his and letting Him lead as Lord of our lives. It has to do with seeking only God’s glory and prying as Christ did, “not my will but thine O Lord.”
We can not afford to forget the point Paul makes when he says, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil 3:12-14)
The Apostle does not look at himself as having made it to sinlessness, but rather still remembers that he can still preach to others and fall back into sin. And this is a good reminder to ourselves that there is nothing like “once saved always saved” situation in Christian experience. If that were the case, at least Paul would not write as he did in the above text.
It’s important though, to remember too that Christian life should be a continuous growth, gaining new heights every day. There should be spiritual maturity, where by the grace of Christ keeps gaining victory over sinful tendencies, but there is never a time when one will exclaim, “am now done, I can never sin anymore neither can I fall from by spirituality!”
This study interacts well with what our discussions have been in the class with special emphasis on the topic made by Dr. M. Hannah. Much of what he said in class came into mind as I was reading on this topic and I appreciate his lessons. This is for sure an important lesson for all Christians especially Adventists, lest we who think are standing we fall and we who think we are first we come in last.
Reflection #4
I found it good to read through the topic “Christian Perfection”, and here are the main points that I grabbed for myself: fist, a serious problem begins with the attached meaning or the understanding we give to the word “perfection”. If it’s understood to mean “sinlessness” then it goes a long way into teaching heresy. However, since the word is used in the bible (borrowing Dr. Hannah’s language), we need not fight it but define it and use it in its proper way.
If the term “perfection” as used in the bible is taken to mean sinlessness, it gets the bible into contradictions. The same bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10) After than how can it again say be the opposite?
Perfection in the way it is used in the bible carries a meaning of spiritual maturity and ripening in spiritual understanding. It has some aspect of full surrender to God and letting Him take over, subjecting our will into his and letting Him lead as Lord of our lives. It has to do with seeking only God’s glory and prying as Christ did, “not my will but thine O Lord.”
We can not afford to forget the point Paul makes when he says, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil 3:12-14)
The Apostle does not look at himself as having made it to sinlessness, but rather still remembers that he can still preach to others and fall back into sin. And this is a good reminder to ourselves that there is nothing like “once saved always saved” situation in Christian experience. If that were the case, at least Paul would not write as he did in the above text.
There is always room for improvement in Christian journey and there is always need for relying on Christ. Perfectionism will lead to self righteousness and spiritual pride as seen in the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector.
It’s important though, to remember too that Christian life should be a continuous growth, gaining new heights every day. There should be spiritual maturity, where by the grace of Christ keeps gaining victory over sinful tendencies, but there is never a time when one will exclaim, “am now done, I can never sin anymore neither can I fall from by spirituality!”
This study interacts well with what our discussions have been in the class with special emphasis on the topic made by Dr. M. Hannah. Much of what he said in class came into mind as I was reading on this topic and I appreciate his lessons. This is for sure an important lesson for all Christians especially Adventists, lest we who think are standing we fall and we who think we are first we come in last.
Reflection #4
I found it good to read through the topic “Christian Perfection”, and here are the main points that I grabbed for myself: fist, a serious problem begins with the attached meaning or the understanding we give to the word “perfection”. If it’s understood to mean “sinlessness” then it goes a long way into teaching heresy. However, since the word is used in the bible (borrowing Dr. Hannah’s language), we need not fight it but define it and use it in its proper way.
If the term “perfection” as used in the bible is taken to mean sinlessness, it gets the bible into contradictions. The same bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10) After than how can it again say be the opposite?
Perfection in the way it is used in the bible carries a meaning of spiritual maturity and ripening in spiritual understanding. It has some aspect of full surrender to God and letting Him take over, subjecting our will into his and letting Him lead as Lord of our lives. It has to do with seeking only God’s glory and prying as Christ did, “not my will but thine O Lord.”
We can not afford to forget the point Paul makes when he says, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil 3:12-14)
The Apostle does not look at himself as having made it to sinlessness, but rather still remembers that he can still preach to others and fall back into sin. And this is a good reminder to ourselves that there is nothing like “once saved always saved” situation in Christian experience. If that were the case, at least Paul would not write as he did in the above text.
It’s important though, to remember too that Christian life should be a continuous growth, gaining new heights every day. There should be spiritual maturity, where by the grace of Christ keeps gaining victory over sinful tendencies, but there is never a time when one will exclaim, “am now done, I can never sin anymore neither can I fall from by spirituality!”
This study interacts well with what our discussions have been in the class with special emphasis on the topic made by Dr. M. Hannah. Much of what he said in class came into mind as I was reading on this topic and I appreciate his lessons. This is for sure an important lesson for all Christians especially Adventists, lest we who think are standing we fall and we who think we are first we come in last.
Reflection #4
I found it good to read through the topic “Christian Perfection”, and here are the main points that I grabbed for myself: fist, a serious problem begins with the attached meaning or the understanding we give to the word “perfection”. If it’s understood to mean “sinlessness” then it goes a long way into teaching heresy. However, since the word is used in the bible (borrowing Dr. Hannah’s language), we need not fight it but define it and use it in its proper way.
If the term “perfection” as used in the bible is taken to mean sinlessness, it gets the bible into contradictions. The same bible says, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10) After than how can it again say be the opposite?
Perfection in the way it is used in the bible carries a meaning of spiritual maturity and ripening in spiritual understanding. It has some aspect of full surrender to God and letting Him take over, subjecting our will into his and letting Him lead as Lord of our lives. It has to do with seeking only God’s glory and prying as Christ did, “not my will but thine O Lord.”
We can not afford to forget the point Paul makes when he says, “Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Phil 3:12-14)
It’s important though, to remember too that Christian life should be a continuous growth, gaining new heights every day. There should be spiritual maturity, where by the grace of Christ keeps gaining victory over sinful tendencies, but there is never a time when one will exclaim, “am now done, I can never sin anymore neither can I fall from by spirituality!”
This study interacts well with what our discussions have been in the class with special emphasis on the topic made by Dr. M. Hannah. Much of what he said in class came into mind as I was reading on this topic and I appreciate his lessons. This is for sure an important lesson for all Christians especially Adventists, lest we who think are standing we fall and we who think we are first we come in last.
Trung Hoang
Reflection #4
In Whidden’s book, chapter 9, the author mentions the term “cheap grace.” This is becoming more and more popular in Christian circle. We struggle within our Adventist family with the problematic perfectionism, but on the other side of this, many believe in unconditional salvation. These people believe that no matter how they live after they accepted Christ as their justification, they cannot fall out of their salvation.
Those who believe in this theology are not totally wrong. God’s grace for our salvation through Christ is unconditional. There is no merit from what we do that can earn God’s forgiveness, but the sacrifice of Jesus Christ alone. It’s conditional from God’s love for us, but just like any relationship, it’s a two-way deal. God’s gift for us is always free and available, but we have to want to accept it.
By accepting God’s gift, we conditionally accept His solution of salvation. God not only wants to save us from bondage of sin which results in death, He wants to restore His image in us like how He created us in the beginning. By accepting His solution, we must yield to His guidance through the Holy Spirit.
Our human problem is we want God to be our slave doing just what we want Him to do, but we don’t allow Him to be our God. A balanced teaching in our church can help people to not to take the gift too likely. The gift is unconditional from God and we must conditionally accept it.
Response #5 to Thomas Oyaro Ong'ou
I agree with you that we are not called to leave this world. Jesus even prayed to the Father that we would not take us out of this world but to transform this world. Heaven is not fun if it's only a hand full of people. God wants everyone to come to repentance.
Response #6 to Hyo Won Assignment #3
It's real easy for us to use human superficial works as spiritual sacrifice and expect God to merit us. Transformation is both for inward and outward. If it's not by the grace of God we ministers would be in trouble.
Response #7 to Jasmine Fraser Reflection #4
No matter how much we've studied we still have many mysteries that we have eternity to learn and keep on learning. I used to be troubled by it, but now it actually gives me more reasons to want to get to heaven to know the answers to the mysteries.
Response #8 to Bledi Leno Reflection #2
How easy it is to judge someone by our standard. I totally agree with you Bledi. This is how others outside view of us. When I first associated with SDA before my baptism my friends had warned me about SDA being fundamentalist. Now I understand that they meant legalist. However I thank God that it was the truth that God allow me to see, not the external things. We cannot change how others around us act, but we can live how God wants us to live. Others will be saved not by our imperfection, but by his hope for our eternity.
Jared Miller Doctrine of Salvation
Reflection #4 7/2/10
Reflections on What I have Read
I like how the book of Romans ends: 15:4 mentions “we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope” and then again in 15:13 “may the God of hope fill you will all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Paul ends his longest epistle encouraging the saints to have hope. And then in 16:20 he uses some irony when he writes “the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly.” Part of the hope of the believers is that God will crush the devil, and we will be free from this world of sin, and enjoy the salvation and eternal life God desires for us.
I found some of Whidden’s final chapters to get a little technical, but I tried to follow him. Instead of trying to unpack what he wrote in the last 5-6 chapters in one or two paragraphs, I will focus on things that are very clear and seem to be very important (at least to me). First of all, on page 128 he mentions “three special characteristics” that are closely connected to perfection in Ellen White’s writings: unity, humility, and patience. It seems clear that Ellen White rejected people’s claims to sinless perfectionism—hence her emphasis on humility. As it was noted, the closer we get to Christ, the more we will realize our sinfulness.
I also found Whidden’s summary of what Ellen White taught concerning being perfect in the last days to be helpful: “It seems consistent to understand the sealed saints as both perfect (not committing willful sins) and yet imperfect (not absolutely reflecting the perfect image of Jesus, because they will still need earthliness to be consumed)” (139). I appreciate Whidden’s attempt to see a balance in Ellen White’s writings, instead of going to extremes like some people do.
Speaking of extremes, the Primacy of the Gospel Committee Report from the BRI was quite interesting. I knew of no such committee and discussion before reading that article. I appreciated how the article was balanced by focusing on 12 areas of agreement and 12 areas disagreement between the GC committee and the 1888 committee. The fact that the church invested five years to thoroughly address the 1888 committee tells me that the 1888 committee has been a cause of serious trouble. The 1888 Message Study Committee seems to have an agenda, and seems to be very critical of church leaders (not to mention many of their positions that are off the mark). I think the article is a firm rebuke to the 1888 committee, but done in a loving way. It seems to me that the 1888 committee is not balanced in their views—they have gone to several extremes—and the article calls them back to a balance that is in according with the Bible, Ellen White, and the Seventh-day Adventist Church.
How What I have Read Relates to the Class Discussions
I see the above discussion about what Whidden wrote relating to what was said in class: We need to avoid two extremes: sinful presumption vs. sinless perfection. The balance is that we can live above sin as we keep our eyes on Jesus. I appreciate the Christ-centered focus in class, that really, we must keep our eyes on Jesus and be balanced in Him, therefore avoiding both ditches on our right and left.
I appreciate your thoughts Trung. I agree with you, that we need to teach a balanced message, and avoid preaching “cheap grace.” God loves us the way we are, but refuses to leave us that way—He wants to change us to be more and more like Jesus.
I like what Bigogo said regarding not fighting what the Bible says, but rather defining the words correctly and using them properly—especially regarding perfection. I also appreciate what you said about sinlessness—surely no one can claim that after reading 1 John 1:8-10, as you so eloquently said.
Richard M. White
Assignment #5
June 17, 2010
History of the visible remnant.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated.
Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them.
As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth.
What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13
God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
Richard M. White
Assignment #5
June 17, 2010
History of the visible remnant.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated.
Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them.
As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth.
What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13
God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
Richard M. White
Assignment #5
June 17, 2010
History of the visible remnant.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated.
Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them.
As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth.
What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13
God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
Richard M. White
Assignment #5
June 17, 2010
History of the visible remnant.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated.
Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them.
As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth.
What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13
God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
Richard M. White
Assignment #5
June 17, 2010
History of the visible remnant.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated.
Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them.
As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth.
What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13
God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
Richard M. White
Assignment #5
June 17, 2010
History of the visible remnant.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated.
Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them.
As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth.
What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13
God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
Richard M. White
Assignment #5
June 17, 2010
History of the visible remnant.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated.
Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them.
As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth.
What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13
God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
Richard M. White
Assignment #5
June 17, 2010
History of the visible remnant.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated.
Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them.
As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth.
What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13
God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
Richard M. White
Assignment #5
June 17, 2010
History of the visible remnant.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated.
Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them.
As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth.
What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13
God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
Richard M. White
Assignment #5
June 17, 2010
History of the visible remnant.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated.
Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them.
As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth.
What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13
God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
Richard M. White
Assignment #5
June 17, 2010
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated.
Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them.
As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth.
What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13
God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
Richard M. White
Assignment #5
June 17, 2010
History of the visible remnant.
After reading chapter’s 13 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, in addition to Dr. Hanna’s illustration in class on the History of the visible remnant, I was no less than fascinated.
Prior to AD 70, when the destruction of the temple of Israel accrued, which also marked the destruction of Israel as a nation, Israel was chosen by God as a visible remnant among the nation. “Though your people, O Israel, be like the sand by the sea, only a remnant will return. Destruction has been decreed, overwhelming and righteous.” Isaiah 10:22 After the Israel did not fulfill God requirement; God rejected them and the Universal Catholic church from the first century to the early 16th. Century became the remnant. Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. Romans 11:11 After they fell into apostasy by joining with Roma and its pagan worship, God once again rejected them and established a ne remnant from among them. This was the Protestant Church. They too fell into apostasy and in the early 19th. Century God called forth a remnant, the Adventist Church from them.
As we look to the future, the New Jerusalem as noted in Revelation 3;12 A remnant will be called from among God’ people to inherited the new earth.
What an amazing truth. The danger now lies in the Seventh Day Adventist Church, who now is the remnant in present day to proclaim the gospel of Jesus Christ and his second coming through the third angel, as well as all three angels message noted in Revelation 14:6-13
God raised up the Seventh - day Adventist (SDA) Church for something bigger than the SDA Church. We are calling other to Christ. The call of this visible remnant is to the invisible remnant, which is the 3rd. Angel’s message, to New Jerusalem. Another important point to note is not because we are part of the remnant church makes us a part of the invisible remnant. The startling truth is that being a SDA member does not make us a part of the sheep Christ will be calling in the end. Jesus noted, “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. Hence, the remnant is not a free ticket, but a responsibility.
Sorry for the multiple posting of my #5 posting, I was having problem with my computer.
Response to Alexis comments on 6/25/10.
I appreciate you cmooents and do a gree with you wholehartedly. If we are to discuss strong faith, I beleive it is restraining from doing something that produces strong faith. Too often Christians ar elooksed upon as weak. It is more stronger to restrain from doing what is natural or easy to do in this world than restrain from do it. Sinning is easy. It is not sinning that is difficult. But thank God we have Jesus who has paved the way for us and showed us that it is possible to be obedient to the law.
Thank you
Reflection # 2
Romans Chapter 3 is one of the important Chapters in Romans. Within chapter 3, following context starting from verse 21 is being regarded as a significant portion of Paul’s righteous by faith theology. Before chapter 3 verse 21, apostle Paul talks about sin, about God’s judgment, about the Jews and the law, about the faithfulness of God, and just before verse 21, he talks about the idea that no one is righteous. It’s almost like nicely setting up a solid ground expecting something huge to take place.
Starting with the illustration about sin and the status of the sinners, he then clearly points out that there will be judgment from God upon all the sinners; the righteous judgment. After that he talks about the Jew and the law intentionally in order to make the Jews to realize that the sinners he mentioned whom will receive the judgment doesn’t only mean the gentiles but also means themselves, so that they may admit the fact that they are also under the same judgment as other gentiles. It seems like Paul has written the first part of the Romans in elaborately organized way, so as to drive the readers, especially the Jews, to the certain point of destination, the set ground, that the core of his message could be delivered. From the destination, the edge of the cliff called ‘judgment by God’, Paul declares ‘But! Now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus’ (Rom 3:21-24, NIV). In his declaration we can see hope and mercy, he says to ‘all’ who believe the righteousness will come. The righteousness by faith that was the core message he wanted to share. When Paul asserted that Jews are also sinners, it may upset the Jews a little bit, but Paul did try to make them known that they are also sinners because he was certain about the presupposition when one could be righteous which is being a sinner; admitting that himself/herself is a sinner. By skipping that part not a single human can be regarded as righteous. As we can see in the text that ‘all’ people form ‘all who believe’ also indicates ‘all (who) have sinned’’ and ‘(all who) are to be justified freely by his grace’. Thus, the people who will be justified, has to be the ones who was sinners and receive righteousness by believing in Jesus Christ.
Sometimes, as living as Christians, we often are tempted to think that our righteous deed may help us to be people who deserve salvation. I think this kind of temptation was also on the Jews back then, and Paul was trying to urge them to realize the danger of it. This may be the reason why he mentioned ‘fall short of the glory of God’ to explain who is not righteous but sinful, because this illustration could tell clearly that human effort has insuperable limitation. Just as it is impossible for us who has fallen from the glory of God to regain the glory by our own effort, it is impossible to make ourselves righteous by our pitiful endeavor because the only way we can be righteous is when God makes us righteous as it was also God who made the human in his (God’s) image (glory).
Richard M. White
Assignment #6
July 2, 2010
Predestination but not determination
The topic of predestination has always fascinated me. Depends on which denomination you ask, the members might have a different definition of the topic. I would not have said that I had a full understanding of the topic myself until I attended this class. Predestination is often explained in the contents predetermination. That is our faith is predetermined.
Romans 5 talks about predestination, but this is conditional predestination. As noted in class, God knows all things, and he knows that we are predestining onto eternal death and onto everlasting life. He knows the end form the beginning. The mystery is, we do not know. We don’t need to know, because if we do this will require God to remove our option of free choice. We have the right to choose the way of life to be saved or the way onto death, to be lost. When we chose one of these paths, God has predestined the end of this path. However, we should never forget that we can always come off the path or should I say turn back and onto the path of righteousness. The younger son in the prodigal son did just that. Unfortunately, the story did not mention if his brother did. The beauty of God is that he gives us choices, he does not force us, he is long suffering with us, and he provides a way out for us in the most difficult circumstances. It is for us to have faith in him, and believe that he will lead us through a path of righteousness for his name sake. He does call us onto him, but we are the one who needs to respond to his calling.
Predestination in not determination as Calvin, would like us to believe. Calvin believes that God call some of us onto salvation. Meaning that no matter what we do, we will be saving. We cannot avoid it. He also believes that others are call to damnation. Once again it does not matter what they do, they are condemned for ever. This is not the marking of a good God. My God is good. He is love. I would not want to condemn my own children for something they have not been given the chance to choose. God does not do this to his children. We are predestining of course, but onto to life or onto to death, we have the choice.
@ Jared Miller
Re:Reflection 4
I agree. We need to avoid the extremes and remain balanced. We also need to lovingly rebuke those that move off into those extremes and preach the truth.
Grace can cure our legalistic tendencies
The Problem
We are all born legalists. We learn from society that every effort is rewarded; this method is used at home, school, family, and even church. Some Christians believe that if they dress right, speak right, are part of the right group, and behave the best they can, then they have a better opportunity to be saved.
One of the terrible effects of legalism is that it steals our peace and joy. Legalism is a burden according to Acts 15:10, “Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?” This is the reason why Jesus himself warned us about legalism in Matthew 16:6, “And Jesus said to them, "Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees."
Even as ministers we may have a theology that lifts up God’s grace theologically, but still holds to legalism in practice. I believe that part of the problem is a superficial reading of scripture which leads to a superficial Christian experience that seeks approval by works.
It is easy to fall into legalism because it is an easier way to show outward compliance to God. On the other side, it is harder to pray, to look for counseling, and take into consideration the body of Christ. It is hard to let the Holy Spirit lead. Even ministers of the gospel without intending sometimes emphasize legalism. We must be careful.
Legalism is a dangerous ground because even if one has the right deeds, but the wrong attitude, then those deeds are worthless. The result is living under the tyranny of perfectionism. This is why having a legalistic spirit is sinful.
The Cure
Acts 15:11 "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." Grace has two important ingredients: it is through faith (John 3:36 “whosoever believes in the Son has eternal life”), and it is free (Eph 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast.” - emphasis supplied). Faith is the human response to grace, yet grace is a free will gift from God. Every step of the way in the Christian walk is due to grace.
No longer will our focus be on performing, outward appearance or in measuring others to human standards, but the focus will be Jesus Christ and living under his unconditional grace. The Holy Spirit will be the guide and will walk along side ready to come to our aid when we fall short to bring us back into relationship with Christ.
We know that living under strict rules with no grace is damaging to one’s faith, but I believe that the opposite is also true, that is to live so far under grace that behavior ceases to matter. Where is the balance? God is full of grace but he is also just, how can these two attributes be reconciled?
How to be a balanced minister and teach the correct relationship with grace without being singled out as liberal?
Indeed the issue of grace and legalism is a deep one, and deserves much more time and research. However, the word of God presents strong evidence to support the relationship between grace, and faith and how we as Christ’s followers should walk, not according to the law but not because we can do away with the law, but because the new life in Christ, allows us to be above the law as we walk in newness of life and enjoy the close relationship with Christ through the Holy Spirit. It will be this union with Christ which will enable us to live righteous lives, in the inside and the outside.
Response to Josiah's response on Eternity and Salvation
Thanks Josiah for your thoughtful input. It is amazing knowing that the subject of salvation is a topic we could spend days looking at but can never exhaust or fully comprehend, not even in eternity. When I mentioned salvation as eternal life, it was not in the context that it is a means to an end. I was referring to eternal life in the sense that throughout eternity we will continue learning about Salvation. Yes we may spend eternity trying to understand the mystery of sin, but more than understanding the mystery of sin we will spend eternity learning about the unfathomable love of the One who saved us.
I remember in one of our class discussion Dr. Hanna made a point on eternity that is forever etched in my mind. He was helping us to understand the dynamic process of glorification in the earth made new. He alluded to the reality that as created beings we will continue to grow in the perfect image of God throughout eternity, but we will never be perfect to the point that God is perfect. To illustrate that, he said we may get to the point where we are close to knowing all about the universe, and we may become excited that we are about to know all there is to know. At that point God can create new things for us to start learning all over again. I was thrilled as I process that thought, and came to the conclusion that eternity is exciting. It is on that premise I propose that salvation is eternal life because for the rest of our lives we cannot forget the love of the One who saved us. I contemplate the whole matter of salvation and eternity and the words of the following song comes to mind:
There is singing up in Heaven such as we have never known, Where the angels sing the praises of the Lamb upon the throne, Their sweet harps are ever tuneful, and their voices always clear, O that we might be more like them while we serve the Master here!
But I hear another anthem, blending voices clear and strong, “Unto Him Who hath redeemed us and hath bought us,” is the song; We have come through tribulation to this land so fair and bright, In the fountain freely flowing He hath made our garments white.
Then the angels stand and listen, for they cannot join the song, Like the sound of many waters, by that happy, blood washed throng, For they sing about great trials, battles fought and vict’ries won, And they praise their great Redeemer, who hath said to them, “Well done.”
So, although I’m not an angel, yet I know that over there I will join a blessed chorus that the angels cannot share; I will sing about my Savior, who upon dark Calvary, freely pardoned my transgressions, died to set a sinner free.
Refrain
Holy, holy, is what the angels sing, And I expect to help them make the courts of heaven ring; But when I sing redemption’s story, they will fold their wings, For angels never felt the joys that our salvation brings.
Reflection #4: Grace can cure our legalistic tendencies
The Problem
We are all born legalists. We learn from society that every effort is rewarded; this method is used at home, school, family, and even church. Some Christians believe that if they dress right, speak right, are part of the right group, and behave the best they can, then they have a better opportunity to be saved.
One of the terrible effects of legalism is that it steals our peace and joy. Legalism is a burden according to Acts 15:10, “Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?” This is the reason why Jesus himself warned us about legalism in Matthew 16:6, “And Jesus said to them, "Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees."
Even as ministers we may have a theology that lifts up God’s grace theologically, but still holds to legalism in practice. I believe that part of the problem is a superficial reading of scripture which leads to a superficial Christian experience that seeks approval by works.
It is easy to fall into legalism because it is an easier way to show outward compliance to God. On the other side, it is harder to pray, to look for counseling, and take into consideration the body of Christ. It is hard to let the Holy Spirit lead. Even ministers of the gospel without intending sometimes emphasize legalism. We must be careful.
Legalism is a dangerous ground because even if one has the right deeds, but the wrong attitude, then those deeds are worthless. The result is living under the tyranny of perfectionism. This is why having a legalistic spirit is sinful.
The Cure
Acts 15:11 "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." Grace has two important ingredients: it is through faith (John 3:36 “whosoever believes in the Son has eternal life”), and it is free (Eph 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast.” - emphasis supplied). Faith is the human response to grace, yet grace is a free will gift from God. Every step of the way in the Christian walk is due to grace.
We know that living under strict rules with no grace is damaging to one’s faith, but I believe that the opposite is also true, that is to live so far under grace that behavior ceases to matter. Where is the balance? God is full of grace but he is also just, how can these two attributes be reconciled?
How to be a balanced minister and teach the correct relationship with grace without being singled out as liberal?
Indeed the issue of grace and legalism is a deep one, and deserves much more time and research. However, the word of God presents strong evidence to support the relationship between grace, and faith and how we as Christ’s followers should walk, not according to the law but not because we can do away with the law, but because the new life in Christ, allows us to be above the law as we walk in newness of life and enjoy the close relationship with Christ through the Holy Spirit. It will be this union with Christ which will enable us to live righteous lives, in the inside and the outside.
Reflection #4: Grace can cure our legalistic tendencies
The Problem
We are all born legalists. We learn from society that every effort is rewarded; this method is used at home, school, family, and even church. Some Christians believe that if they dress right, speak right, are part of the right group, and behave the best they can, then they have a better opportunity to be saved.
One of the terrible effects of legalism is that it steals our peace and joy. Legalism is a burden according to Acts 15:10, “Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?” This is the reason why Jesus himself warned us about legalism in Matthew 16:6, “And Jesus said to them, "Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees."
Even as ministers we may have a theology that lifts up God’s grace theologically, but still holds to legalism in practice. I believe that part of the problem is a superficial reading of scripture which leads to a superficial Christian experience that seeks approval by works.
It is easy to fall into legalism because it is an easier way to show outward compliance to God. On the other side, it is harder to pray, to look for counseling, and take into consideration the body of Christ. It is hard to let the Holy Spirit lead. Even ministers of the gospel without intending sometimes emphasize legalism. We must be careful.
Legalism is a dangerous ground because even if one has the right deeds, but the wrong attitude, then those deeds are worthless. The result is living under the tyranny of perfectionism. This is why having a legalistic spirit is sinful.
The Cure
Acts 15:11 "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." Grace has two important ingredients: it is through faith (John 3:36 “whosoever believes in the Son has eternal life”), and it is free (Eph 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast.” - emphasis supplied). Faith is the human response to grace, yet grace is a free will gift from God. Every step of the way in the Christian walk is due to grace.
We know that living under strict rules with no grace is damaging to one’s faith, but I believe that the opposite is also true, that is to live so far under grace that behavior ceases to matter.
Indeed the issue of grace and legalism is a deep one, and deserves much more time and research. However, the word of God presents strong evidence to support the relationship between grace, and faith and how we as Christ’s followers should walk, not according to the law but not because we can do away with the law, but because the new life in Christ, allows us to be above the law as we walk in newness of life and enjoy the close relationship with Christ through the Holy Spirit. It will be this union with Christ which will enable us to live righteous lives, in the inside and the outside.
Reflection #4: Grace can cure our legalistic tendencies
The Problem
We are all born legalists. We learn from society that every effort is rewarded; this method is used at home, school, family, and even church. Some Christians believe that if they dress right, speak right, are part of the right group, and behave the best they can, then they have a better opportunity to be saved. One of the terrible effects of legalism is that it steals our peace and joy. Legalism is a burden according to Acts 15:10, “Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?” This is the reason why Jesus himself warned us about legalism in Matthew 16:6, “And Jesus said to them, "Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees."
Even as ministers we may have a theology that lifts up God’s grace theologically, but still holds to legalism in practice. I believe that part of the problem is a superficial reading of scripture which leads to a superficial Christian experience that seeks approval by works.
It is easy to fall into legalism because it is an easier way to show outward compliance to God. On the other side, it is harder to pray, to look for counseling, and take into consideration the body of Christ. It is hard to let the Holy Spirit lead. Even ministers of the gospel without intending sometimes emphasize legalism. We must be careful. Legalism is a dangerous ground because even if one has the right deeds, but the wrong attitude, then those deeds are worthless. The result is living under the tyranny of perfectionism. This is why having a legalistic spirit is sinful.
The Cure
Acts 15:11 "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." Grace has two important ingredients: it is through faith (John 3:36 “whosoever believes in the Son has eternal life”), and it is free (Eph 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast.” - emphasis supplied). Faith is the human response to grace, yet grace is a free will gift from God. Every step of the way in the Christian walk is due to grace. We know that living under strict rules with no grace is damaging to one’s faith, but I believe that the opposite is also true, that is to live so far under grace that behavior ceases to matter. Indeed the issue of grace and legalism is a deep one, and deserves much more time and research. However, the word of God presents strong evidence to support the relationship between grace, and faith and how we as Christ’s followers should walk, not according to the law but not because we can do away with the law, but because the new life in Christ, allows us to be above the law as we walk in newness of life and enjoy the close relationship with Christ through the Holy Spirit. It will be this union with Christ which will enable us to live righteous lives, in the inside and the outside.
Response #1 to Michael Taylor 6/9/10
“Getting on at the ground level”
I also agree with you; that we as humans tend to assume that those that we have contact with already know the basics of salvation. Sometimes it can be easy to over look the understanding of other person. I like how you illustrated the writing of Paul to the gentiles. He spoke to them plainly, yet with the plain, he fed them meat. He started out with that which they were familiar and added unto the information, not in a theological complex way, but with human terms to help them grow in their faith. Another thing that I see done a lot especially in my culture, is too much trying to convert the person on the spot than getting to know the person. Sometimes we miss out on how to preach to others when we don’t know try to get to know them. Paul, when speaking to the gentiles uses their terms, sayings, and arguments that help him to preach the gospel in a way that is understood specifically by the gentiles.
Response #2 to Jared Miller 6/11/10
“Reflection on What I Have Read”
I appreciate the response to the reading that you have done on Ellen G. White. I also found it very helpful to read and understand how Ellen G. White develops her understanding on Salvation. It is also very interesting that in her time, people would call her a law abider, all law. Even to this day we have a lot of people that look at Adventism as a religion that is only law, law. But in understanding Romans, and reading up on her book and her development of her understanding helps me to clear my understanding of the law and grace, which today is still a big topic.
Response #3 to Jasmine Fraser 6/13/10
“A Balanced Understanding of Scripture”
You have brought to light the complexity of salvation. It’s not an easy subject to uncover. Nor do I think that we will fully understand the whole spectrum of salvation; like I saw you pointed out in your paper. I also like the concept that we have learned in class, which is to look at the bible not only in the literal but in the symbolic also. It’s interesting to see how many people will go to the extreme in order to point out a literal view, and others will go and point out a symbolic view. Both types of persons tend to hold on to their view to bring out the point, in the manner of solving something. Yet, Salvation itself has mysteries, and also things that we must have faith, for if they were things that could be understood and seen, then there wouldn’t be need of faith.
Response #4 to Cesar Grassiotto 6/15/10
“The Consequences of Adam’s Fall”
I appreciate the topic that you chose to write about. This epidemic scene of sin and evil and how it impacts the world is one of my greatest interests. One of my reasons for interest in the topic is because of the challenge of understanding why sin arrived on the earth on near creation in the first place. One would imagine that if there is a problem that is foreseen then it could be avoided with the plan of correcting sin before it arrives. I appreciate what the professor mentions in regard to this, how if we knew the reason of sin, then we may come to the point of excusing sinful acts. Yet since sin is a huge impact on the whole cosmos, I can comprehend you when you mention your impressive reaction of Jesus’ grace on human kind. Like Paul mentions, ‘where there is sin, grace abounds even more.
Response #5 to Michael Taylor 6/16/10
“If there were no more mystery…”
I appreciate the fact that you pointed out the word ‘mysteries.’ When reading scriptures there are always mysteries. Yet, just like what you were saying in the American culture, growing up here, I also noticed the way the culture (and others) has moved into trying to explain the unexplainable. I have to say that the American culture has progressed in their understanding, yet there are also mysteries in the research of this culture, that are not called mysteries, but a scientific probability. In other words, when we look at science, which is used to try to explain everything, we see that mostly everything that is believed to be true is rooted under a mystery that requires one to have faith in the science calculation, even though it is not proven. A lot of what is understood to be reliable science is only reliable when one believes. When you believe in the bible or in science, there is a requirement of faith for that which is not seen. Since there’s a requirement of faith that tells us that there are mysteries that are not understood, even though many would argue to know more in order to think that they have more knowledge than others.
Response #6 to Richard M. White 6/16/10
“Salvation found not in the Cross or the Blood but in the atonement of God’s Love”
I enjoyed reading your reflection paper concerning God’s love. I like your perspective of God’s love being what makes the death of Christ so meaningful. Just like Paul mentions in 1 Corinthians 13, ‘with out love what good is it? (Paraphrased). This article reaffirms God’s love for others and me. It shows me that because of love God was willing to die for us through Christ. It wasn’t an obligation, there wasn’t anything that we possessed worthy of being saved, yet God loved, which is a choice, us that he came down for us, to die for us, in order to take us with him when he returns. I also like the idea of knowing that God’s love extends to the past, present, and future. It is awesome to feel loved!
Response #7 to Vladimir Isaac 6/20/10
“Article: The Dynamic of Salvation”
The dynamic of salvation is huge! It has an impact that cannot be totally understood, yet in part we can grasp some of it and feel at peace knowing that through Christ we have a savior; just like you had mentioned on the paper. I like how you mentioned that God couldn’t be surprise. I also affirm that belief. I also affirm free will, like you had mentioned. God gives each person the freedom to choose. God gives this freedom to man, because freedom is something that God has. Just like we had heard mentioned in class, God also chooses, yet he chooses to do good all the time. This thought makes me react, because at any time, He could chose to do Evil, but at the same time He always chooses to do good. Since He chooses, like you said, He gives us the opportunity to choose. Though he knows the choices we will make, He still works with us, where we are.
Response #8 to Jared Miller 6/25/10
“Reflection on What I Have Read”
I appreciated the topic of which you presented in your 3rd reflection. For me it was interesting also to find out what 1888 was all about, and it was interesting to see how Ellen G. Whites preaches a subject more than others. It makes me think sometimes of the emphasis that we must have on salvation. Because when we get a better understanding of salvation and how that reflects in our lives, just like Ellen G. White, we can find peace. Romans 5:1 says, “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.” Just in the understanding of what Justification is, is merely enough to give a person peace, knowing that though we will not be perfect by what we have done, through Christ, we can receive his justification, perfection; not of what we have done, but because of what He did.
Reflection #4: Grace can cure our legalistic tendencies
The Problem
We are all born legalists. We learn from society that every effort is rewarded; this method is used at home, school, family, and even church. Some Christians believe that if they dress right, speak right, are part of the right group, and behave the best they can, then they have a better opportunity to be saved. One of the terrible effects of legalism is that it steals our peace and joy. Legalism is a burden according to Acts 15:10, “Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?” This is the reason why Jesus himself warned us about legalism in Matthew 16:6, “And Jesus said to them, "Watch out and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees."
Even as ministers we may have a theology that lifts up God’s grace theologically, but still holds to legalism in practice. I believe that part of the problem is a superficial reading of scripture which leads to a superficial Christian experience that seeks approval by works.
It is easy to fall into legalism because it is an easier way to show outward compliance to God. On the other side, it is harder to pray, to look for counseling, and take into consideration the body of Christ. It is hard to let the Holy Spirit lead. Even ministers of the gospel without intending sometimes emphasize legalism. We must be careful. Legalism is a dangerous ground because even if one has the right deeds, but the wrong attitude, then those deeds are worthless. The result is living under the tyranny of perfectionism. This is why having a legalistic spirit is sinful.
The Cure
Acts 15:11 "But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." Grace has two important ingredients: it is through faith (John 3:36 “whosoever believes in the Son has eternal life”), and it is free (Eph 2:8-9 “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, that no one should boast.” - emphasis supplied). Faith is the human response to grace, yet grace is a free will gift from God. Every step of the way in the Christian walk is due to grace. We know that living under strict rules with no grace is damaging to one’s faith, but I believe that the opposite is also true, that is to live so far under grace that behavior ceases to matter. Indeed the issue of grace and legalism is a deep one, and deserves much more time and research. However, the word of God presents strong evidence to support the relationship between grace, and faith and how we as Christ’s followers should walk, not according to the law but not because we can do away with the law, but because the new life in Christ, allows us to be above the law as we walk in newness of life and enjoy the close relationship with Christ through the Holy Spirit. It will be this union with Christ which will enable us to live righteous lives, in the inside and the outside.
Response to Walter
9/11/2007 8:14 AM
Wow, I am sorry but glad for your experience in the conversion of the ‘Adventist’ pastor. Quite the irony. I can relate, but wasn’t shocked at your statement concerning our church, “the love and acceptance I've felt in their presence tends to be more than I get in 'logical minded' SDA gatherings.”When I was in Japan with my gf meeting her parents; It was difficult to communicate for obvious reasons. Moreover, L.’s father is a Buddhist priest! Interesting Christmas vacation. They knew I was vegetarian and accommodated my diet for the first week. We took the bullet train to historical sites like Hiroshima/Nagasaki. I will never forget the anger I felt for war when I saw half blown Dome (which they preserved for tourists) pictures of people with bones hanging, skin sagging, and blood dripping as their now deformed bodies would be forever changed by the Atomic bomb; heart-gripping. I mention this is because we often rip each others hearts and spirits apart when we feel we are more right than others which causes us to feel justified in our revenge towards them. Is this the gospel? After my 3 week visit with the family; late night tea drinking and extensive conversations in the mornings about family; I realized how much we have in common. point: When I left, L. told me that her family loved me and wanted me to come back soon. This reminds me of a quote: “Preach the gospel wherever you go, and when necessary use words.” –St. Francis of Assisi. Paul mentions the issues of knowledge and prophecy (what Adventists claim) but states that it will all pass away. Moreover, it’s partial; no matter how much we have. Paul then speaks on what really matters and describes it as patient, kind, not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude, not insisting on its own, and endures all things. A child is one who puts knowledge, prophecy, and yes even faith and conviction to give our lives for the glory of God above this one thing. Yet as adults (of mature standing), we will put foolish things away in light of God’s highest calling. Now! These remain faith, hope, and this, but the greatest of these is this; love!
Response to Walter
9/11/2007 8:14 AM
Wow, I am sorry yet glad for your experience. Quite the irony. Sadly, I wasn’t shocked at your statement concerning our church, “the love and acceptance I've felt in their presence tends to be more than I get in 'logical minded' SDA gatherings.” When I was in Japan with my gf meeting her parents; It was difficult to communicate for obvious reasons. Moreover, L.’s father is a Buddhist priest! Interesting Christmas vacation. They knew I was vegetarian and accommodated my diet for the first week. We took the bullet train to historical sites like Hiroshima/Nagasaki. I will never forget the anger I felt for war when I saw half blown Dome (which they preserved for tourists) pictures of people with bones hanging, skin sagging, and blood dripping as their now deformed bodies would be forever changed by the Atomic bomb; heart-gripping. I mention this is because we often rip each others hearts and spirits apart when we feel we are more right than others which causes us to feel justified in our revenge towards them. Is this the gospel? After my 3 week visit with the family I realized how much we have in common. point: When I left, L. told me her family loved me and wanted me to come back soon. This reminds me of a quote: “Preach the gospel wherever you go, and when necessary use words.” Paul mentions the issues of knowledge and prophecy but states that it will all pass away. Moreover, it’s partial; no matter how much we have. Paul then speaks on what really matters and describes it as patient, kind, not envious or boastful or arrogant or rude, not insisting on its own, and endures all things. A child is one who puts knowledge, prophecy, and yes even faith and conviction to give our lives for the glory of God above this one thing. Yet as adults (of mature standing), we will put foolish things away in light of God’s highest calling. Now! These remain faith, hope, and this, but the greatest of these is this; love!
Reflection #4: Apparently, I’ve reached perfection. Now what?
This section of my readings has been rather enjoyable because of the general topics covered. As long as I’ve been in the church, I traced the history of foolishness that relates to the 144,000, last generation perfectionism, and all of the similar doctrines. I heard an anecdote (no, I don’t remember where), for example, about Ellen White returning from Australia to find that church members were having babies like crazy. She asked what was going on, and was told that the Bible teaches that there must be 144,000 in the remnant prior to the Second Coming, so they were trying to just make babies to fill out that number. For this reason, I enjoyed getting into Ellen White’s theology of perfection and the last generation in Whidden’s book. First, I’ll comment on my reading in Romans.
Romans 13-15 describe the connection between personal sanctification and how to live as a community. Paul FIRST reminds believers that we should follow the laws and taxes of our government, because they exist for a reason. Even when we disagree with these leaders and their rules, God still has a purpose in bringing them into power. This needs to be read for the sake of both Republicans during the current presidency and also Democrats during some future presidency, I think. Only after affirming these “cosmic” laws does Paul reaffirm the Transcosmic Law in 13:8-10 (but, once again, only the laws that relate to others). 13:11 is the high point for the whole last section of Romans, in my opinion.
I won’t jump into discussions of chapters 14-15 (because they are the subject of my not-a-research paper), but I do want to comment on 16:1. Phoebe is referred to as a “diakonon” (lit. deacon…or a feminization, deaconess?). I am grateful for the latest GC session for recognizing that based on Phoebe’s example, Paul did allow women to have some limited authority (as deaconesses). Ellen White described the ordination of certain women to roles we now ascribe to deaconesses in July 1895, but made no other definitive statements for women’s ordination to any other ministries. I’m glad that we’re finally following the example and suggestions made by Paul’s example and Ellen White’s pen, but I’m sad to think that this won’t be satisfying for many others who wish for more power. Can somebody help me out with something - how can I read statements from Paul like 1 Timothy 2:11-15, which literally say to not allow women to have authority over men, but then arrive at a conclusion that is actually totally contrary to this statement because Paul was only “addressing a cultural concern”? I would think that Paul’s statement is based on some greater principle which Paul wouldn’t contradict in his application. Please be careful with your response; it’s possible to accidently reject dietary laws, the seventh-day Sabbath, etc. if we dismiss the relationship between the written testimonies of the Bible and the principles upon which they’re based. I know that this wasn’t about justification/sanctification/glorification/etc., but it did come up in the realm of Romans.
With the remaining space, I’ll return to the themes of perfection/perfectionism from Whidden’s book. Thank you, Dr. Hanna, for helping to find a holistic balance when studying perfection. We ARE called to be perfect, and we know that Jesus declares us perfect. To totally rejection perfection is to ignore parts of the Gospel. Dr. Whidden pointed out, on page 139, just what it means to live without a mediator in the end times . In the context of the Great Controversy, this presentation of the end times as a chance for all creation to once and for all see the evil of Satan’s way fits a LOT better, in my opinion, than to say that sure, Jesus alone lived a sinless life, so He alone could be the Savior…well, except for those Adventists over there who finally overcame the temptation to eat cheese.
Wow, I’ve been particularly feisty this time. I guess I still have some work to do before perfection.
Blog #4
When I look back at this intense three-week-long class, I must confess that I have learned so much. In fact, I believe that I have learned a lot more than what I could possibly retain. I will have to give my utmost effort to keep the information fresh in my memory. There were many aspects of salvation that was clarified for me through the lectures, discussions, and the readings.
Whidden’s chapters on perfection was very helpful on helping me to have a balanced view on Christian life. He mentions that there was a strong emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit after 1888. I wonder how many Seventh-day Adventists forget the fact that it is the Holy Spirit that does the transforming work in us, and give us the image of Christ’s perfection.
I believe it is understandable for some people to have misunderstood some of Ellen White’s statements on perfection, because she stated that the perfection was attainable. However, misunderstanding results from quoting her out of context, instead of studying her writings extensively, and holistically.
E.R. Jones was on the camp of perfectionism, and he stated that there will be a time before the close of probation where God’s people must develop perfectionism. I believe examining this incident carefully will help us to know how to respond to such false claims when we encounter such incidents in the future. It is not the nature perfection that we will be achieving before the close of probation.
Along with perfection, justification and sanctification are some concepts that may sound easy, but may seem very confusing to many. I appreciated Ellen White’s view on the relationship between the two. She says that conversion happens as the result of faith, and the fruit of holiness occurs in relation to it.
I cannot quite fathom the art of justification, because Christ justifies us every moment we confess and repent through his gracious merits. This process is done by faithful loyalty that includes obedience and repentance. I believe it is easy to cross the line on this delicate balance, and end up on the side of legalism and perfectionism if we forget the fact that it is only the merit of Christ that can save us. Even the obedience, which shows that we have accepted Christ’s gracious merits by faith, cannot come from ourselves, but God gives it to us.
It is also easy for us to make an error on perfection if we think of it in terms of absolute sinless state. However, it is not about our behavior, but about what Christ does on our behalf. The idea of sanctification also discourages the view of perfectionism, because Ellen White has stated that it is the work of a lifetime.
Edward Heppenstall in his article, “How perfect is ‘perfect’ or is Christian perfection possible?” he writes that the perfect righteousness of Christ is the only possible answer to our sin problem. Our righteousness are filthy rags that do not cover us.
Ellen White has stated that when the human will and divine power combine, it becomes omnipotent. I will choose to show my loyalty to Christ by confessing and repenting by faith in order that God may perfect my character more into His likeness.
Blog #4
When I look back at this intense three-week-long class, I must confess that I have learned so much. In fact, I believe that I have learned a lot more than what I could possibly retain. I will have to give my utmost effort to keep the information fresh in my memory. There were many aspects of salvation that was clarified for me through the lectures, discussions, and the readings.
Whidden’s chapters on perfection was very helpful on helping me to have a balanced view on Christian life. He mentions that there was a strong emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit after 1888. I wonder how many Seventh-day Adventists forget the fact that it is the Holy Spirit that does the transforming work in us, and give us the image of Christ’s perfection.
I believe it is understandable for some people to have misunderstood some of Ellen White’s statements on perfection, because she stated that the perfection was attainable. However, misunderstanding results from quoting her out of context, instead of studying her writings extensively, and holistically.
E.R. Jones was on the camp of perfectionism, and he stated that there will be a time before the close of probation where God’s people must develop perfectionism. I believe examining this incident carefully will help us to know how to respond to such false claims when we encounter such incidents in the future. It is not the nature perfection that we will be achieving before the close of probation.
Along with perfection, justification and sanctification are some concepts that may sound easy, but may seem very confusing to many. I appreciated Ellen White’s view on the relationship between the two. She says that conversion happens as the result of faith, and the fruit of holiness occurs in relation to it.
I cannot quite fathom the art of justification, because Christ justifies us every moment we confess and repent through his gracious merits. This process is done by faithful loyalty that includes obedience and repentance. I believe it is easy to cross the line on this delicate balance, and end up on the side of legalism and perfectionism if we forget the fact that it is only the merit of Christ that can save us. Even the obedience, which shows that we have accepted Christ’s gracious merits by faith, cannot come from ourselves, but God gives it to us.
It is also easy for us to make an error on perfection if we think of it in terms of absolute sinless state. However, it is not about our behavior, but about what Christ does on our behalf. The idea of sanctification also discourages the view of perfectionism, because Ellen White has stated that it is the work of a lifetime.
Edward Heppenstall in his article, “How perfect is ‘perfect’ or is Christian perfection possible?” he writes that the perfect righteousness of Christ is the only possible answer to our sin problem. Our righteousness are filthy rags that do not cover us.
Ellen White has stated that when the human will and divine power combine, it becomes omnipotent. I will choose to show my loyalty to Christ by confessing and repenting by faith in order that God may perfect my character more into His likeness.
Blog #4
When I look back at this intense three-week-long class, I must confess that I have learned so much. In fact, I believe that I have learned a lot more than what I could possibly retain. I will have to give my utmost effort to keep the information fresh in my memory. There were many aspects of salvation that was clarified for me through the lectures, discussions, and the readings.
Whidden’s chapters on perfection was very helpful on helping me to have a balanced view on Christian life. He mentions that there was a strong emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit after 1888. I wonder how many Seventh-day Adventists forget the fact that it is the Holy Spirit that does the transforming work in us, and give us the image of Christ’s perfection.
I believe it is understandable for some people to have misunderstood some of Ellen White’s statements on perfection, because she stated that the perfection was attainable. However, misunderstanding results from quoting her out of context, instead of studying her writings extensively, and holistically.
E.R. Jones was on the camp of perfectionism, and he stated that there will be a time before the close of probation where God’s people must develop perfectionism. I believe examining this incident carefully will help us to know how to respond to such false claims when we encounter such incidents in the future. It is not the nature perfection that we will be achieving before the close of probation.
Along with perfection, justification and sanctification are some concepts that may sound easy, but may seem very confusing to many. I appreciated Ellen White’s view on the relationship between the two. She says that conversion happens as the result of faith, and the fruit of holiness occurs in relation to it.
I cannot quite fathom the art of justification, because Christ justifies us every moment we confess and repent through his gracious merits. This process is done by faithful loyalty that includes obedience and repentance. I believe it is easy to cross the line on this delicate balance, and end up on the side of legalism and perfectionism if we forget the fact that it is only the merit of Christ that can save us. Even the obedience, which shows that we have accepted Christ’s gracious merits by faith, cannot come from ourselves, but God gives it to us.
It is also easy for us to make an error on perfection if we think of it in terms of absolute sinless state. However, it is not about our behavior, but about what Christ does on our behalf. The idea of sanctification also discourages the view of perfectionism, because Ellen White has stated that it is the work of a lifetime.
Edward Heppenstall in his article, “How perfect is ‘perfect’ or is Christian perfection possible?” he writes that the perfect righteousness of Christ is the only possible answer to our sin problem. Our righteousness are filthy rags that do not cover us.
Ellen White has stated that when the human will and divine power combine, it becomes omnipotent. I will choose to show my loyalty to Christ by confessing and repenting by faith in order that God may perfect my character more into His likeness.
Blog #4
When I look back at this intense three-week-long class, I must confess that I have learned so much. In fact, I believe that I have learned a lot more than what I could possibly retain. I will have to give my utmost effort to keep the information fresh in my memory. There were many aspects of salvation that was clarified for me through the lectures, discussions, and the readings.
Whidden’s chapters on perfection was very helpful on helping me to have a balanced view on Christian life. He mentions that there was a strong emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit after 1888. I wonder how many Seventh-day Adventists forget the fact that it is the Holy Spirit that does the transforming work in us, and give us the image of Christ’s perfection.
I believe it is understandable for some people to have misunderstood some of Ellen White’s statements on perfection, because she stated that the perfection was attainable. However, misunderstanding results from quoting her out of context, instead of studying her writings extensively, and holistically.
E.R. Jones was on the camp of perfectionism, and he stated that there will be a time before the close of probation where God’s people must develop perfectionism. I believe examining this incident carefully will help us to know how to respond to such false claims when we encounter such incidents in the future. It is not the nature perfection that we will be achieving before the close of probation.
Along with perfection, justification and sanctification are some concepts that may sound easy, but may seem very confusing to many. I appreciated Ellen White’s view on the relationship between the two. She says that conversion happens as the result of faith, and the fruit of holiness occurs in relation to it.
I cannot quite fathom the art of justification, because Christ justifies us every moment we confess and repent through his gracious merits. This process is done by faithful loyalty that includes obedience and repentance. I believe it is easy to cross the line on this delicate balance, and end up on the side of legalism and perfectionism if we forget the fact that it is only the merit of Christ that can save us. Even the obedience, which shows that we have accepted Christ’s gracious merits by faith, cannot come from ourselves, but God gives it to us.
It is also easy for us to make an error on perfection if we think of it in terms of absolute sinless state. However, it is not about our behavior, but about what Christ does on our behalf. The idea of sanctification also discourages the view of perfectionism, because Ellen White has stated that it is the work of a lifetime.
Ellen White has stated that when the human will and divine power combine, it becomes omnipotent. I will choose to show my loyalty to Christ by confessing and repenting by faith in order that God may perfect my character more into His likeness.
Blog #4
When I look back at this intense three-week-long class, I must confess that I have learned so much. In fact, I believe that I have learned a lot more than what I could possibly retain. I will have to give my utmost effort to keep the information fresh in my memory. There were many aspects of salvation that was clarified for me through the lectures, discussions, and the readings.
Whidden’s chapters on perfection was very helpful on helping me to have a balanced view on Christian life. He mentions that there was a strong emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit after 1888. I wonder how many Seventh-day Adventists forget the fact that it is the Holy Spirit that does the transforming work in us, and give us the image of Christ’s perfection.
I believe it is understandable for some people to have misunderstood some of Ellen White’s statements on perfection, because she stated that the perfection was attainable. However, misunderstanding results from quoting her out of context, instead of studying her writings extensively, and holistically.
I believe examining incidents such as the one with E.R. Jones carefully will help us to know how to respond to such false claims when we encounter such incidents in the future. It is not the nature perfection that we will be achieving before the close of probation.
Along with perfection, justification and sanctification are some concepts that may sound easy, but may seem very confusing to many. I appreciated Ellen White’s view on the relationship between the two. She says that conversion happens as the result of faith, and the fruit of holiness occurs in relation to it.
I cannot quite fathom the art of justification, because Christ justifies us every moment we confess and repent through his gracious merits. This process is done by faithful loyalty that includes obedience and repentance. I believe it is easy to cross the line on this delicate balance, and end up on the side of legalism and perfectionism if we forget the fact that it is only the merit of Christ that can save us. Even the obedience, which shows that we have accepted Christ’s gracious merits by faith, cannot come from ourselves, but God gives it to us.
It is also easy for us to make an error on perfection if we think of it in terms of absolute sinless state. However, it is not about our behavior, but about what Christ does on our behalf. The idea of sanctification also discourages the view of perfectionism, because Ellen White has stated that it is the work of a lifetime.
Ellen White has stated that when the human will and divine power combine, it becomes omnipotent. I will choose to show my loyalty to Christ by confessing and repenting by faith in order that God may perfect my character more into His likeness.
Blog #4
When I look back at this intense three-week-long class, I must confess that I have learned a lot more than what I could possibly retain. I will have to give my utmost effort to keep the information fresh in my memory. There were many aspects of salvation that was clarified for me through the lectures, discussions, and the readings.
Whidden’s chapters on perfection was very helpful on helping me to have a balanced view on Christian life. He mentions that there was a strong emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit after 1888. I wonder how many Seventh-day Adventists forget the fact that it is the Holy Spirit that does the transforming work in us, and give us the image of Christ’s perfection.
I believe it is understandable for some people to have misunderstood some of Ellen White’s statements on perfection, because she stated that the perfection was attainable. However, misunderstanding results from quoting her out of context, instead of studying her writings extensively, and holistically.
I believe examining incidents such as the one with E.R. Jones carefully will help us to know how to respond to such false claims when we encounter such incidents in the future. It is not the nature perfection that we will be achieving before the close of probation.
Along with perfection, justification and sanctification are some concepts that may sound easy, but may seem very confusing to many. I appreciated Ellen White’s view on the relationship between the two. She says that conversion happens as the result of faith, and the fruit of holiness occurs in relation to it.
I cannot quite fathom the art of justification, because Christ justifies us every moment we confess and repent through his gracious merits. This process is done by faithful loyalty that includes obedience and repentance. I believe it is easy to cross the line on this delicate balance, and end up on the side of legalism and perfectionism if we forget the fact that it is only the merit of Christ that can save us. Even the obedience, which shows that we have accepted Christ’s gracious merits by faith, cannot come from ourselves, but God gives it to us.
It is also easy for us to make an error on perfection if we think of it in terms of absolute sinless state. However, it is not about our behavior, but about what Christ does on our behalf. The idea of sanctification also discourages the view of perfectionism, because Ellen White has stated that it is the work of a lifetime.
Ellen White has stated that when the human will and divine power combine, it becomes omnipotent. I will choose to show my loyalty to Christ by confessing and repenting by faith in order that God may perfect my character more into His likeness.
Blog #4
When I look back at this intense three-week-long class, I must confess that I have learned a lot more than what I could possibly retain. I will have to give my utmost effort to keep the information fresh in my memory. There were many aspects of salvation that was clarified for me through the lectures, discussions, and the readings.
Whidden’s chapters on perfection was very helpful on helping me to have a balanced view on Christian life. He mentions that there was a strong emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit after 1888. I wonder how many Seventh-day Adventists forget the fact that it is the Holy Spirit that does the transforming work in us, and give us the image of Christ’s perfection.
I believe it is understandable for some people to have misunderstood some of Ellen White’s statements on perfection, because she stated that the perfection was attainable. However, misunderstanding results from quoting her out of context, instead of studying her writings extensively, and holistically.
I believe examining incidents such as the one with E.R. Jones carefully will help us to know how to respond to such false claims when we encounter such incidents in the future. It is not the nature perfection that we will be achieving before the close of probation.
Along with perfection, justification and sanctification are some concepts that may sound easy, but may seem very confusing to many. I appreciated Ellen White’s view on the relationship between the two. She says that conversion happens as the result of faith, and the fruit of holiness occurs in relation to it.
I cannot quite fathom the art of justification, because Christ justifies us every moment we confess and repent through his gracious merits. This process is done by faithful loyalty that includes obedience and repentance. I believe it is easy to cross the line on this delicate balance, and end up on the side of legalism and perfectionism if we forget the fact that it is only the merit of Christ that can save us. Even the obedience, which shows that we have accepted Christ’s gracious merits by faith, cannot come from ourselves, but God gives it to us.
It is also easy for us to make an error on perfection if we think of it in terms of absolute sinless state. However, it is not about our behavior, but about what Christ does on our behalf. The idea of sanctification also discourages the view of perfectionism, because Ellen White has stated that it is the work of a lifetime.
Ellen White has stated that when the human will and divine power combine, it becomes omnipotent. I will choose to show my loyalty to Christ by confessing and repenting by faith in order that God may perfect my character more into His likeness.
Blog #4
When I look back at this intense three-week-long class, I must confess that I have learned a lot more than what I could possibly retain. I will have to give my utmost effort to keep the information fresh in my memory. There were many aspects of salvation that was clarified for me through the lectures, discussions, and the readings.
Whidden’s chapters on perfection was very helpful on helping me to have a balanced view on Christian life. He mentions that there was a strong emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit after 1888. I wonder how many Seventh-day Adventists forget the fact that it is the Holy Spirit that does the transforming work in us, and give us the image of Christ’s perfection.
I believe it is understandable for some people to have misunderstood some of Ellen White’s statements on perfection, because she stated that the perfection was attainable. However, misunderstanding results from quoting her out of context, instead of studying her writings extensively, and holistically.
I believe examining incidents such as the one with E.R. Jones carefully will help us to know how to respond to such false claims when we encounter such incidents in the future. It is not the nature perfection that we will be achieving before the close of probation.
Along with perfection, justification and sanctification are some concepts that may sound easy, but may seem very confusing to many. I appreciated Ellen White’s view on the relationship between the two. She says that conversion happens as the result of faith, and the fruit of holiness occurs in relation to it.
I cannot quite fathom the art of justification, because Christ justifies us every moment we confess and repent through his gracious merits. This process is done by faithful loyalty that includes obedience and repentance. I believe it is easy to cross the line on this delicate balance, and end up on the side of legalism and perfectionism if we forget the fact that it is only the merit of Christ that can save us. Even the obedience, which shows that we have accepted Christ’s gracious merits by faith, cannot come from ourselves, but God gives it to us.
It is also easy for us to make an error on perfection if we think of it in terms of absolute sinless state. However, it is not about our behavior, but about what Christ does on our behalf. The idea of sanctification also discourages the view of perfectionism, because Ellen White has stated that it is the work of a lifetime.
Ellen White has stated that when the human will and divine power combine, it becomes omnipotent. I will choose to show my loyalty to Christ by confessing and repenting by faith in order that God may perfect my character more into His likeness.
Blog #4
As I reflect on this intense class, I must confess that I have learned a lot more than what I could possibly retain. I need to give my utmost effort to keep the information fresh in my memory. There were many aspects of salvation that was clarified for me through the lectures, discussions, and the readings.
Whidden’s chapters on perfection was very helpful on helping me to have a balanced view on Christian life. He mentions that there was a strong emphasis on the work of the Holy Spirit after 1888. I wonder how many Seventh-day Adventists forget the fact that it is the Holy Spirit that does the transforming work in us, and give us the image of Christ’s perfection.
I believe it is understandable for some people to have misunderstood some of Ellen White’s statements on perfection, because she stated that the perfection was attainable. However, misunderstanding results from quoting her out of context, instead of studying her writings extensively, and holistically.
I believe examining incidents such as the one with E.R. Jones carefully will help us to know how to respond to such false claims when we encounter such incidents in the future. It is not the nature perfection that we will be achieving before the close of probation.
Along with perfection, justification and sanctification are some concepts that may sound easy, but may seem very confusing to many. I appreciated Ellen White’s view on the relationship between the two. She says that conversion happens as the result of faith, and the fruit of holiness occurs in relation to it.
I cannot quite fathom the art of justification, because Christ justifies us every moment we confess and repent through his gracious merits. This process is done by faithful loyalty that includes obedience and repentance. I believe it is easy to cross the line on this delicate balance, and end up on the side of legalism and perfectionism if we forget the fact that it is only the merit of Christ that can save us. Even the obedience, which shows that we have accepted Christ’s gracious merits by faith, cannot come from ourselves, but God gives it to us.
It is also easy for us to make an error on perfection if we think of it in terms of absolute sinless state. However, it is not about our behavior, but about what Christ does on our behalf. The idea of sanctification also discourages the view of perfectionism, because Ellen White has stated that it is the work of a lifetime.
Ellen White has stated that when the human will and divine power combine, it becomes omnipotent. I will choose to show my loyalty to Christ by confessing and repenting by faith in order that God may perfect my character more into His likeness.
I'm sorry everyone! I thought my blog wasn't being posted, so I kept trying, and 9 of the same blog has been posted.
I would delete them if I could, but I do not know how.
I'm sorry for the inconvenience I have caused all of you
Reading Assignment #1 - Faith and Works – root & fruit
I really appreciate the discussion and clarification done in class the other day. The root of salvation refers to the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ. And the fruit of salvation refers to the righteousness of law fulfilled in us. This is a profound statement.
Which is more important? Root? Or the fruit? I would say both of them are equally important. I am experiencing this concept in my backyard. I have a small vegetable garden; and I planted many different types of vegetables. Even though their shape, color, size are different, they all have something in common. They all have roots and they produce things. And I discovered that the plants that are deeply rooted in well fertilized ground grow much stronger and bear much fruit. First of all, simply roots are extremely important. They are the ones that gather all the nutrition and water from the ground and send them up to the stems and leaves. Jesus also says in John 15 that He is the Vine and we are the branches/leaves. Without the root/foundation, the plant cannot survive. That is also the case for our spiritual life. Faith without works which resulted by obedience is dead. And works by themselves are useless because we do not know where they come from. Christ has used object lessons and parables in His effective teaching and I find this method truly works in my backyard.
I mentioned above that both the root and the fruit are equally important. That is only under the proper time sequence. The root part always comes first, then as a result of the law of nature, fruit is produced
I see this faith-work relationship as inseparable one. They always come hand in hand; and we cannot talk one without the other. There are some examples I found in the Scriptures:
Case study 1 – Ark and the flood account in Genesis 6-9. God’s salvation is demonstrated in this account. Invitations were given to everyone who lived in the land; and the message has been preached since the times of Enoch. So nearly 1000 years of invitation/warning was given to them. From reading the spirit of prophecy I found there are two different faith groups presented before the flood. First faith group has the faith that God will destroy the world with water as Noah preached for years. Second group has the faith that God will destroy the world with water as Noah preached for years. It sounds like I have repeated the same thing twice. Yes I repeated the same thing twice, but they were clearly distinguished by their works. First acted upon their faith by entering into the ark, second didn’t bother going in. Patriarchs and Prophets said that there were group of people who believed the Noah’s message, but didn’t want to do anything with it.
Case Study 2 – Peter walking on water – I’m not going to talk about all the details. The important thing is that it wasn’t easy for Peter to step out of the boat first. Peter’s faith was witnessed as he took his first step out of the boat into the water. As he acted upon it, power of faith was witnessed there. And the root of his faith wasn’t from himself. When Peter took his eyes off Jesus, fruit as gone all of sudden. Root is only found in Jesus Christ. And without Him, we can do NOTHING!
Case Study 3 – Manna story in Exodus 16 – God provides, and we act upon it. Even though Manna was given to them, the Israelites were not full until they woke up early to gather them and bring them home to cook and actually ate. I believe the salvation is the same thing. When Jesus came down and carried all our sins and died on the cross and resurrected from dead, the salvation was provided and made available to those who believe. However it is still our part to claim the merit of Christ. When it happens, God consider us as being justified. From there we continue to grow with the strength Christ promised us. This grow will take place eternally.
Reading Assignment #1 - Faith and Works – root & fruit
* I really appreciate the discussion and clarification done in class the other day. The root of salvation refers to the righteousness of God in Jesus Christ. And the fruit of salvation refers to the righteousness of law fulfilled in us. This is a profound statement.
* Which is more important? Root? Or the fruit? I would say both of them are equally important. I am experiencing this concept in my backyard. I have a small vegetable garden; and I planted many different types of vegetables. Even though their shape, color, size are different, they all have something in common. They all have roots and they produce things. And I discovered that the plants that are deeply rooted in well fertilized ground grow much stronger and bear much fruit. First of all, simply roots are extremely important. They are the ones that gather all the nutrition and water from the ground and send them up to the stems and leaves. Jesus also says in John 15 that He is the Vine and we are the branches/leaves. Without the root/foundation, the plant cannot survive. That is also the case for our spiritual life. Faith without works which resulted by obedience is dead. And works by themselves are useless because we do not know where they come from. Christ has used object lessons and parables in His effective teaching and I find this method truly works in my backyard.
* I mentioned above that both the root and the fruit are equally important. That is only under the proper time sequence. The root part always comes first, then as a result of the law of nature, fruit is produced
* I see this faith-work relationship as inseparable one. They always come hand in hand; and we cannot talk one without the other. There are some examples I found in the Scriptures:
* Case study 1 – Ark and the flood account in Genesis 6-9. God’s salvation is demonstrated in this account. Invitations were given to everyone who lived in the land; and the message has been preached since the times of Enoch. So nearly 1000 years of invitation/warning was given to them. From reading the spirit of prophecy I found there are two different faith groups presented before the flood. First faith group has the faith that God will destroy the world with water as Noah preached for years. Second group has the faith that God will destroy the world with water as Noah preached for years. It sounds like I have repeated the same thing twice. Yes I repeated the same thing twice, but they were clearly distinguished by their works. First acted upon their faith by entering into the ark, second didn’t bother going in. Patriarchs and Prophets said that there were group of people who believed the Noah’s message, but didn’t want to do anything with it.
* Case Study 2 – Peter walking on water – I’m not going to talk about all the details. The important thing is that it wasn’t easy for Peter to step out of the boat first. Peter’s faith was witnessed as he took his first step out of the boat into the water. As he acted upon it, power of faith was witnessed there. And the root of his faith wasn’t from himself. When Peter took his eyes off Jesus, fruit as gone all of sudden. Root is only found in Jesus Christ. And without Him, we can do NOTHING!
* Case Study 3 – Manna story in Exodus 16 – God provides, and we act upon it. Even though Manna was given to them, the Israelites were not full until they woke up early to gather them and bring them home to cook and actually ate. I believe the salvation is the same thing. When Jesus came down and carried all our sins and died on the cross and resurrected from dead, the salvation was provided and made available to those who believe. However it is still our part to claim the merit of Christ. When it happens, God consider us as being justified. From there we continue to grow with the strength Christ promised us. This grow will take place eternally.
Reading Assignment #2 - Nature of Christ
The study of Christ’s nature can be difficult and challenging topic. Indeed there are many different opinions and ideas are still shared. We cannot fully grasp this concept of Christology. SDA Bible Commentary Volume 7, p.904 says, “Man cannot define this wonderful mystery – the blending of the two natures…It can never be explained.”
We may not be able to fully understand; at the same time there are some hints are given to us from the spirit of prophecy:
Desire of Ages p.311-312 – “Christ reaches us where we are. He took our nature and overcame, that we through taking His nature might overcome. Made ‘in the likeness of sinful flesh,’ He lived a sinless life” – But the question is how much of sinful nature did Christ take?
I was glad to be a part of discussion of human nature of Christ. There is only one human nature. But fact that sinless nature has tainted into fallen nature, it seems like there are two different natures. But it is still one human nature in two different state.
Christ’s purpose for coming to earth was to solve the problem with fallen nature, this explains why Jesus took our fallen state. When the sinless creator takes hold of the fallen nature, does the fallen nature remain the same as before He took it, or does He redeem it and restore it back to its sinlessness? It is a question we must contemplate upon. The most amazing thing is that Jesus had victory in spite of its fallen state/nature
Ellen White’s Manuscript releases Volume 16 Pp. 86-88, 182 talk about that in His human nature Christ conquered in behalf of the fallen race. It says, “Christ humbled Himself to the nature of man, He could be tempted. He had not taken on Him even the nature of the angels, but humanity, perfectly identical with our own nature, except without the taint of sin. A human body, a human mind, with all the peculiar properties, He was bone, brain, and muscle. A man of our flesh, He was compassed with the weakness of humanity…Our Lord was tempted as man is tempted. He was capable of yielding to temptations, as are human beings. His finite nature was pure and spotless, but the divine nature that led Him to say to Philip, “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father” neither, was not humanized; neither was humanity deified by the blending or union of the two natures; each retained its essential character and properties.“
“The divine nature, combined with the human, made Him capable of yielding to Satan’s temptations. Here the test to Christ was far greater than that of Adam and Eve, for Christ took our nature, fallen but not corrupted, and would not be corrupted unless He received the words of Satan in the place of the words of God”
From the reading the Spirit of Prophecy, things made pretty clear to me. Jesus has taken both pre-fall & post-fall of humanity. Jesus did not have propensity to sin like Adam and Eve; however He has taken much weaker body and will of mankind. And He has overcome them. This is mysterious science I’ve ever seen. And this will be studied in heaven eternally.
test
Reading Assignment #3 – Perfection
After hearing the lecture on perfection in class, it made me think about the concept of perfection. Until now, my understanding of perfection was slightly different. I am glad that we have spent some time in class to discuss this topic fully.
Before I share my own opinions, I would like to summarize what we’ve discussed in class regarding perfection:
1) Important thing about perfection – whose perfection is it? We know that we can never reach “the perfection” on our own. Therefore it has to be the perfection of God
2) If I were to categorize, there are three categories in the salvation process: 1) Justification, 2) Sanctification, and 3) Glorification. And there is perfection found in each process.
3) Perfection in Justification – this perfection is given to us through justification. God clothes us in the garment of Jesus’ righteousness. So our nakedness is covered by His righteousness and His righteousness become ours. We are perfect in Jesus Christ’s righteousness.
4) Perfection in Sanctification – this is perfection growth which is perfect at every stage. God is satisfied with me because I am not what I used to be. And I am not yet what I am going to be. Thanks to the Lord for God is satisfied with me. God accepts me does not mean I should be satisfied with who I am. We must move forward highter ground.
5) Perfection in Glorification – Ever increasing of glory of God’s perfection, which belongs only to Him, but given to us through His grace.
This perfection process is described in Philippians 1:6 - it says, “For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus. This passage indicates that there’s no end point in the process of perfection. And the perfection only comes from God.
Here is another text that talks about perfection – “Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.” There are only a few times that the Bible use the terminology “Will of God” – this is one of will of God that we strive to become perfect.
“Justification often defined perfection and always formed the foundation of the experience of sanctification. Sanctification often defined perfection, but at the same time perfection was always the goal of sanctification” (Ellen White on Salvation P. 119)
So what lesions can we learn from the topic of perfection. The most perfect example of “perfection” can be only found in Jesus. He is the only one who was absolutely perfect. In fact, Ellen White described those who claimed to be “equal with Him in perfection of character” as committing “blasphemy”. And God is fair and just. We can never reach the point where Jesus was on earth. However, Christ has offered us the strength to be like Him when we accept His invitation. And outcome of that process is being viewed as perfect by our heavenly father.
When this process of perfection takes place, you would not know, but others will know. The more time I spend with God, I realized I’m such a wicked sinner and I need Christ.
Perfection and holiness are two words that are often misunderstood and misused, especially within the Christian circles. Edward Heppenstall, in his article on perfection, sheds light unto this subject. He points out that no one has ever obtain perfection, even the Apostles and the early Christian founders struggled with such and gave witness to their sinfulness. From his perspective he is promoting the idea that the early church leaders were reserved when it came to such. Furthermore, that the only perfect sinless being, who had the right to make such claim, was Jesus. I believe that most followers of Christ would agree with such account. This article as well at the book titled “Ellen White on Salvation” gave me further insights into the misunderstandings pertaining to holiness and perfection.
For starters there are other words and or phrase that are use to convey a similar meaning that are stressed in the words perfection and holiness, such as in the word sanctification. A quick definition of such implies separation, set apart, consecrated. It further entails the process by which one’s character is transformed. The essence is that there is a change from a sinful condition to a sanctified condition, from injustice to justice (Rom 6:19).
I believe that this is where the confusion sets in, thus leading to conclusions that open the door to legalism. It appears that the idea of holiness (as a synonym for sanctification) and its process, which is initiated when a person first comes to Christ, is considered perfection. And as such that it is a “completed” process of holiness. While there is “some” level of truth in this we must be careful and consider its implications. As Ellen White experienced in her days many were making declarations of a “sinless” life (perfection), which later was proven to be the contrary. The mere fact that one makes such declarations should be cause for concern. A sinless being would not boast in their ability and or their condition of being. This is pride. As we read scripture we see various times where pride lead to destruction (2 Chr. 25:19, 32:25; Ps. 15:25; Proverbs 16:5). The opposite should be what is manifested in the believer, a life of humbleness. Is this not what Jesus demonstrated? As a matter of fact He was not careless with His spirituality. As we know he would pray daily and often retreat for prayer and fasting. We see that he too was tempted, but due to the power of the Holy Spirit He disarmed Satan.
As I am coming to understand this idea of holiness it is a process and one that leads to perfection. This will be completely fulfilled in the seconding coming of Christ. At this point in our life journey, when we have come to Christ, we are “justified” – just as if we had never sinned. This is not by our doing, but through the works of Christ himself. It is at this moment that our sanctified journey begins, this is the path to perfection, which gives rise to a lifestyle of “less” sin, but not “sinless”. This entire process involves the Holy Spirit, the Son and the Father, but we too have a part in such. It says in Desire of Ages, “All true obedience comes from the heart. It was heart work with Christ. And if we consent, He will so identify Himself with our thoughts and aims, so blend our hearts and minds into conformity to His will, that when obeying Him we shall be but carrying our own impulses” (668). And the post-1888 expression says, “Imperceptibly to ourselves, we are changed day by day from our own ways and will into the ways and will of Christ, into the loveliness of his character. Thus we grow up into Christ, and unconsciously reflect His image” (RH, Apr. 28,1891). We are sanctified and soon we will be perfectly sinless.
Perfection and holiness are two words that are often misunderstood and misused, especially within the Christian circles. Edward Heppenstall, in his article on perfection, sheds light unto this subject. He points out that no one has ever obtain perfection, even the Apostles and the early Christian founders struggled with such and gave witness to their sinfulness. From his perspective he is promoting the idea that the early church leaders were reserved when it came to such. Furthermore, that the only perfect sinless being, who had the right to make such claim, was Jesus. I believe that most followers of Christ would agree with such account. This article as well at the book titled “Ellen White on Salvation” gave me further insights into the misunderstandings pertaining to holiness and perfection. For starters there are other words and or phrase that are use to convey a similar meaning that are stressed in the words perfection and holiness, such as in the word sanctification. A quick definition of such implies separation, set apart, consecrated. It further entails the process by which one’s character is transformed. The essence is that there is a change from a sinful condition to a sanctified condition, from injustice to justice (Rom 6:19). I believe that this is where the confusion sets in, thus leading to conclusions that open the door to legalism. It appears that the idea of holiness (as a synonym for sanctification) and its process, which is initiated when a person first comes to Christ, is considered perfection. And as such that it is a “completed” process of holiness. While there is “some” level of truth in this we must be careful and consider its implications. As Ellen White experienced in her days many were making declarations of a “sinless” life (perfection), which later was proven to be the contrary. The mere fact that one makes such declarations should be cause for concern. A sinless being would not boast in their ability and or their condition of being. This is pride! As we read scripture we see various times where pride lead to destruction (2 Chr. 25:19, 32:25; Ps. 15:25; Proverbs 16:5). The opposite should be what is manifested in the believer, a life of humbleness. Is this not what Jesus demonstrated? As a matter of fact He was not careless with His spirituality. As we know he would pray daily and often retreat for prayer and fasting. We see that he too was tempted, but due to the power of the Holy Spirit He disarmed Satan. As I am coming to understand this idea of holiness it is a process and one that leads to perfection. This will be completely fulfilled in the seconding coming of Christ. At this point in our life journey, when we have come to Christ, we are “justified”–just as if we had never sinned. This is not by our doing, but through the works of Christ himself. It is at this moment that our sanctified journey begins, this is the path to perfection, which gives rise to a lifestyle of “less” sin, but not “sinless”. This entire process involves the Holy Spirit, the Son and the Father, but we too have a part in such. It says in Desire of Ages, “All true obedience comes from the heart. It was heart work with Christ. And if we consent, He will so identify Himself with our thoughts and aims, so blend our hearts and minds into conformity to His will, that when obeying Him we shall be but carrying our own impulses” (668). And the post-1888 expression says, “Imperceptibly to ourselves, we are changed day by day from our own ways and will into the ways and will of Christ, into the loveliness of his character. Thus we grow up into Christ, and unconsciously reflect His image” (RH, Apr. 28,1891). We are sanctified and soon we will be perfectly sinless.
Perfection & holiness words that are often misunderstood and misused. Edward Heppenstall, in his article on perfection, sheds light on this subject. He points out that no one has ever obtain perfection, even the Apostles and early Christian founders struggled and gave witness to their sinfulness. Furthermore, that the only perfect sinless being, who had the right to make such claim, was Jesus. I believe that most followers of Christ would agree with such account. This article as well at the book titled “Ellen White on Salvation” gave me further insights into the misunderstandings pertaining to holiness and perfection. For starters there are other words and or phrase that are use to convey a similar meaning that are stressed in the words perfection and holiness, such as in the word sanctification. A quick definition of such implies separation, set apart, consecrated. It further entails the process by which one’s character is transformed. The essence is that there is a change from a sinful condition to a sanctified condition, from injustice to justice (Rom 6:19). I believe that this is where the confusion sets in, thus leading to conclusions that open the door to legalism. It appears that the idea of holiness (as a synonym for sanctification) and its process, which is initiated when a person first comes to Christ, is considered perfection. And as such that it is a “completed” process of holiness. While there is “some” level of truth in this we must be careful and consider its implications. As Ellen White experienced in her days many were making declarations of a “sinless” life (perfection), which later was proven to be the contrary. The mere fact that one makes such declarations should be cause for concern. A sinless being would not boast in their ability and or their condition of being. This is pride! As we read scripture we see various times where pride lead to destruction (2 Chr. 25:19, 32:25; Ps. 15:25; Proverbs 16:5). The opposite should be what is manifested in the believer, a life of humbleness. Is this not what Jesus demonstrated? As a matter of fact He was not careless with His spirituality. As we know he would pray daily and often retreat for prayer and fasting. We see that he too was tempted, but due to the power of the Holy Spirit He disarmed Satan. As I am coming to understand this idea of holiness it is a process and one that leads to perfection. This will be completely fulfilled in the seconding coming of Christ. At this point in our life journey, when we have come to Christ, we are “justified”–just as if we had never sinned. This is not by our doing, but through the works of Christ himself. Its at this stage that our sanctified journey begins; the path to perfection, which gives rise to a lifestyle of “less” sin, but not “sinless”. This entire process involves the Trinity, but we too have a part in such. It says in Desire of Ages, “All true obedience comes from the heart. It was heart work with Christ. And if we consent, He will so identify Himself with our thoughts and aims, so blend our hearts and minds into conformity to His will, that when obeying Him we shall be but carrying our own impulses” (668). And the post-1888 expression says, “Imperceptibly to ourselves, we are changed day by day from our own ways and will into the ways and will of Christ, into the loveliness of his character. Thus we grow up into Christ, and unconsciously reflect His image” (RH, Apr. 28,1891). We are sanctified and soon we will be perfectly sinless.
Perfection & holiness words that are often misunderstood and misused. Edward Heppenstall article on perfection, points out that no one has ever obtain perfection, even the Apostles and early Christian founders struggled and gave witness to their sinfulness. Furthermore, that the only perfect sinless being, who had the right to make such claim, was Jesus. I believe that most followers of Christ would agree with such account. This article as well at the book titled “Ellen White on Salvation” gave me further insights into the misunderstandings pertaining to holiness and perfection. For starters there are other words and or phrase that are use to convey a similar meaning that are stressed in the words perfection and holiness, such as in the word sanctification. A quick definition of such implies separation, set apart, consecrated. It further entails the process by which one’s character is transformed. The essence is that there is a change from a sinful condition to a sanctified condition, from injustice to justice (Rom 6:19). I believe that this is where the confusion sets in, thus leading to conclusions that open the door to legalism. It appears that the idea of holiness (as a synonym for sanctification) and its process, which is initiated when a person first comes to Christ, is considered perfection. And as such that it is a “completed” process of holiness. While there is “some” level of truth in this we must be careful and consider its implications. As Ellen White experienced in her days many were making declarations of a “sinless” life (perfection), which later was proven to be the contrary. The mere fact that one makes such declarations should be cause for concern. A sinless being would not boast in their ability and or their condition of being. This is pride! As we read scripture we see various times where pride lead to destruction (2 Chr. 25:19, 32:25; Ps. 15:25; Proverbs 16:5). The opposite should be what is manifested in the believer, a life of humbleness. Is this not what Jesus demonstrated? As a matter of fact He was not careless with His spirituality. As we know he would pray daily and often retreat for prayer and fasting. We see that he too was tempted, but due to the power of the Holy Spirit He disarmed Satan. As I am coming to understand this idea of holiness it is a process and one that leads to perfection. This will be completely fulfilled in the seconding coming of Christ. At this point in our life journey, when we have come to Christ, we are “justified”–just as if we had never sinned. This is not by our doing, but through the works of Christ himself. Its at this stage that our sanctified journey begins; the path to perfection, which gives rise to a lifestyle of “less” sin, but not “sinless”. This entire process involves the Trinity, but we too have a part in such. It says in Desire of Ages, “All true obedience comes from the heart. It was heart work with Christ. And if we consent, He will so identify Himself with our thoughts and aims, so blend our hearts and minds into conformity to His will, that when obeying Him we shall be but carrying our own impulses” (668). And the post-1888 expression says, “Imperceptibly to ourselves, we are changed day by day from our own ways and will into the ways and will of Christ, into the loveliness of his character. Thus we grow up into Christ, and unconsciously reflect His image” (RH, Apr. 28,1891). We are sanctified and soon we will be perfectly sinless.
Response to Michael Taylor 1st reflection posting:
Michael you stated, "One thing bugs me about many of our (that’s a corporate “our", implicating the whole Church) presentations to outsiders is that we often start our study at an intermediate level. That is, we tend to assume that our contacts already know the basics of salvation and Christ, and it’s just our job to straighten out a few bad doctrines."
I admit that I too find it a bit troubling. However, what I also find troubling is the idea that "we" think "it's just our job to straighten out a few bad doctrines". I believe that my job is to present the truth and then let the Holy Spirit do its job. I have discovered that the Holy Spirit is better at convincing people than I am. So, I embrace you thoughts on the things that "bugs me" and add some more food for thought. Blessings
Response to Thomas Oyaro Ong'ou 6/25/2010 blog:
Thomas I agree with your statement that "perfection needs some more clarification and attention". I believe that we approach a Godly thing with a human perspective and attempt to understand something so divine, in our limited state of mind, that it leads to lots of misunderstandings.
I also like the way you ended your blog. We are in a class, learning day by day, growing little by little. And one day we shall hear the trumpet and then the voice...
Brother, what a glorious day that will be!!! May we all keep on learning. Blessings
Response to Alexis 6/25/201 Blog;
Alex, it is about balance, and harmony, peace, and love towards all humanity. If we could only be more like that there just might be a different world, and less judging and condemning. Maybe, like Rodney King (the guy who was beaten during the LA riots) suggested, We would "all get along". Thanks for your words of encouragement. Blessings
Response to Ricardo Woolcock Reflection #2:
Ricardo, your comments are very thought provoking. I was especially moved by your comments on the Voodoo doctor being saved. I also found interesting your comment about how we respond. I too believe that we could be a hinderance, more like a tool that aids Satan in slowly deteriorating the faith that others have, including ours. Lord help us to be humble and mindful that Jesus is the way and the truth and that no one will enter unless it is through Him. Praise your Holy name!
Response to Paul munioz
I truly enjoyed reading your post it pointed out that we will always be wrestling with the sin issue. I think the way you put it was less sin not sinless, i like that its too bad we look at sin in such a legalistic way, but God looks at the heart and He will take it away little by little until we are in heaven, blessings
Rico
response to Jasmine
I agree that the Health is very important because its takes care of the vessel by which we communicate with God, Ellen white said the health message is closely associated with the 3angles messagae, cleaner pipes means a cleaner sound, you know what i mean, coming from an out of shape dude that says alot, sometimes that sin i cant preach and teach about efectively, another reason why health is important
Rico
Reflection #3
" A remnant from the remanant will be saved" EG
We as SDA like to talk about our church being the remnant church, and we somehow are a little proud of that fact, but somehow we overlook the fact that Gods remnant church also interacts with people with with Gods remnant attitude.
what does that mean?
The Bible makes it very clear that during the time of Jesus ministry on earth Gods chosen people(remnant) were not acting like it. Jesus once told his listeners to do what they say but dont act as they do, so we see that they had the doctrines correct, they knew who God was, they knew his name, they knew his prophets, they even had His law but they didnt have his attitude towards people that he told them to have. The Jews were supposed to show the world who God is, they were to do in a much lesser way what Jesus did completely, show God to people.
Had the people God called out to represent Him, His remnant, only taken the time to get to know Him, they would have never been cut off and a world would have longed to know the God of the Jews,
but
instead they had the rules right, they had the name right, they had the god right but the attitude was wrong thus they(as a nation) were excluded from that group of remanat that Jesus is coming back for.
SDA(as a denomination) today as i see it, can easily fall into that same category of remnant. Its easy for us to look at our denomination and say oh we got it right, our doctrines are Biblically sound, our health message is second to none, and when you join the SDA church for most people thier situation just imporves all the way around, financially, educationally, and status.
but
if with all the blessings that come from observing Gods commands and living under His banner is not accompanied with the correct attitude it excludes you from the remnant, especially the SDA remnant because this church was given a remnant message and if your not actively involved in proclaiming it verbally and with your lifestyle in a way that Jesus would do it then you need to get on board.
You know as SDA we really shouldnt be proud of our remnant status we should be humbled that we have an opportunity to join those that God has entrusted this end time remnant message, and hope and pray that He never has to do with us like He did with them(Jewish Nation) because of thier attitude.
I really enjoyed the class that talked about the Invisible Remnant(IR) and the Visible Remnant(VR) I always knew there was something missing but I just couldnt put it to words. Remnant was remnant, no IR and VR but now I can clearly see through scripture that when the visible remnant messes up and are not accomplishing His will, God always has an Invisible remnant ready to step in and show thier is no compromising with God, through the spirit or the letter and in the end when Jesus comes to take his remnant home, there will only be one, and those visible that refuse to co-operate completely with the spirit they will willingly drop out and the invisible will become visible,
even so come Lord Jesus
response to Johnathan post
I like the way pulled out the point that it is just as important to have a practical working personal knowledge of how salvation works in our own life, as well as a theological one it goes hand in hand good post
Rico
response to Richard Whites comment
I am still intrigued with the nature of christ. I am not totally sure when He redeemed human nature its always on my mind but reading post like yours helps me grapple with it
rico
Reflection #4
The class has been wonderful and very thought provoking, it seems that no matter what subject we go into we always end up with the topic of salvation and perfection and rightly so since the class was about salvation.
It was good to see that one of my favorite texts was used when helping us to understand salvation and perfection. Phillipians 3:12-14 this is an amazing text to me because as you read it, when you consider the author and how much his writings have contributed to the New Testament it becomes crystal clear that salvation lyes in one man(Jesus Christ) and so does Perfection.
I believe most christians get it wrong because we dont press toward christ, we think that, as was stated in class perfection is a destination not a life long process, a journey, perfection happens in the daily pressing to the mark of Jesus christ, when we do this daily we are being perfected in Him, and the closer we get to Him the more we realize our imperfections, so a perfect person will never think themselves perfect because they will always have a true perfect example before them, that they will never attain,
who shall deliver me from this wretched state of being im in? the perfect example you are pressing toward thats who, Jesus is the answer all the way around, and it is even him that works in us to will and to do of his good pleasure, to do his will, to want to do His will.
statement from class:
How do we evaluate perfection?
Perfection means never being satisfied----always pressing on toward the mark of Jesus Christ
this is one reason why we must introduce people to Jesus- so they can have the joy we have in Christ, in knowing where thier salvation comes from, in having assurance that thier salvation will be realized in them irregardless of thier current condition if they rest in Jesus
Rico
Reflection #1
“The Development of Salvation”
In the book, “Ellen G. White on Salvation” I was able to take a closer look at Mrs. White’s life and her experience in her walk with Jesus more closer. Her walk with God helped me to understand her development of the issue of Salvation before 1888. I find it fascinated how from her experience in the Methodist church’s teachings, the issue of salvation is triggered. Not only that, but also the teachings of Miller in that time arose the question of her salvation. For me it was fascinating to see how Ellen G. White not only wrote about Salvation but also in her writings describes her growing experience through her personal convictions; trying to answer the question, “Am I going to be saved?” The more she searched, the more she noticed that no one is perfect, that perfection comes from being in Jesus perfection. I find it quite interesting how Ellen, before 1888, began confronting people who had the idea of perfectionism. In my reading in Whidden’s book, I did not expect to find these types of people in her time. I always had the idea, that these types of people came later in the 20th century. But for some reason she confronted them, yet I know it wasn’t a coincidence, it was what was going to help her define what is known as justification by faith.
In class we covered this topic. I have enjoyed seeing how the word perfect is used. Before, I would think that no one was perfect. In society, we hear this a lot, and also in our churches, but now, we had to stop and think to ask, “What kind of perfection are we talking about.” Christ’s perfection, like taught in class, written in Whidden’s book and in the Article entitled, ‘Justification in Romans 3:21-24.
Reflection #2
“Foreknowledge, Predestination and Calling…”
In the reading of Whidden’s book, chapters 4-8, the author spoke a little about doctrines that had impact on Ellen G. White’s writings. One of those doctrines was that of human nature. In her time, there was the Calvinistic view ever since humans fell into sin, sin overpowered them to the point that they couldn’t come back out of their sin, and the only way to be saved is through the initiative of God on the human race to take them out of sin. This comes close, or about the same, as Augustine’s teaching on human nature. He believed that those that fell into sin, lost their sense of making the right choice; since before sin, they had power to make the right choice. Now since man sinned, their power was taken away and human are powerless against sin, and the only way to be saved would be by God’s grace. Now the grace, as said by Augustine, that God gives, he gives when he chooses. Since, he has freedom to choose, and then he already knows those that will be saved.
In a lot of studies, it seems that many don’t make the distinction between foreknowledge and predestination. In the article entitled, “Predestination, Foreknowledge, and Human Freedom,” the author makes the distinction between these three. He goes on to show how foreknowledge is where God identifies the problem, yet he doesn’t act upon it right away and forces his plan upon others, as though it’s one process. Rather, after foreseeing the problem, he moves into predestination, which is creating a strategic plan that will solve the problem that is foreknown. After creating the plan, this is where God calls out to everyone, in a specific way, for specific things, in which all of us become part of this plan for reconciliation for the lost human race. This too, we learned in class, the distinctions between the three, but the connection between the three.
Reflection #3
“The Mysteries of God & Legal Universal Justification”
I read an article the other day entitled, “Some Problems with Legal Universal Justification.” When reading this article, I was amaze to see that there is a lot more teachings out there that I’m not even aware of, that are simply place together to fit a specific belief. I find it amazing how today, in our day and age; we all look to find answers to the bibles toughest questions. Sometimes I think that man cannot handle mystery; or the curiosity kills them so much that they do all they can to find an answer to whatever mystery there is. Like for instance Christ’s identity or the Sanctuary in heaven. We can come up with the closest answer, but we won’t know the fullest understanding until we get to heaven. This reminds me of a time when I was in Africa in 2003. A man came up to me the following day after a night of evangelistic series. He handed me a paper, and on that paper he had mapped out a time line and the explanation on Christ’s second coming (I think I still have that paper). In the article he wrote, he pin pointed the exact year that Christ was going to come. In his argument, he starts out by showing Jesus lineage and lineage after Christ’s, then he uses math of these lineages and texts to pin point the day, month, and year. I was amazed at his research. I asked him about the text which mentions not one will know the time or day, neither Jesus. But His argument was that we can figure it out because there is enough information to find out. I always wonder when I read articles like these, “Why can’t people leave the mysteries to God; and wait until we take class 101 from Moses, or Enoch, or Elijah?” In the article by Manuel Rodriguez, I learned that Legal Universal Justification is justification that spreads to everyone; which implies even the unborn. They take on the position that Christ’s death was a shared substitution; that implies that humans take part in the glory of the cross. All these statements undermine that first we need a savior and not to seek ourselves. Secondly, justification is that which is freely provide, but to those that seek God; are with God, and in God’s presence. Like explain in class, under the umbrella.
Reflection #4
“God’s Love to Save”
In the article entitled, “Why Did Jesus Die? How God Saves Us,” I came across the topic of ‘The Ransom Price’ which many would say that is the view Jesus’ death on the cross. This article poses a good question, “If it is ransom, then who collected the ransom money?” The belief behind all of this is that when Adam and Eve fell into sin, they had given away soul to the devil. Because of this, God now has to pay the price for the sin on earth, in order to gain back the lives of Eve. This story of how Christ’s death is seen as a ransom is interesting and very problematic. Just by reading the article, it made me ask whether or not God had to pay anything to Satan; in the sense that they fell into sin, yet sin is not Satan or it belongs to Satan, so the victory of sin is not paid to Satan. Since sin is a difficult topic to understand, we won’t understand this concept fully if we don’t know the complete understanding of sin. In a way paying something because of sin does make sense, because God had told Adam and Eve, that if they were to eat of the tree that they were going to die. So God’s plan included a substitute/ sacrifice, to take on that price of sin, so that others could live. Another thing that comes to mind when thinking of the Ransom model is ‘if Christ had to pay, then that would imply that he was in a sense fulfilling an obligation; instead of taking initiation without the obligation.’ I could be wrong. But when reading Peter’s letters, it seem that when God knew what was going to happen before He created everything, he already had it in His mind to freely initiate the plan of Salvation. There wasn’t a second thought, just the power of love that He possessed.
1st Response to Jonathan Martin (6-10-2010)
Jonathan I was moved by your statements about the balance that needs to be achieved within the relationship of grace and the law. Yours was the most practical approach I’ve heard to date on the subject. I enjoyed particularly the notion you created on the subject of balance. I too believe that balance is a necessary characteristic for fruitful scriptural pursuit. From your comments I imagine a seesaw phenomena. In this case the mutual back and forth is not the desired pleasure but rather a more fixed equilibrium is favored. The problem with our church, to put it so bluntly, comes from our lack dynamism. This is known as an ability to maintain balance in spite of the bombardment of external stimuli. It is our duty of be constantly aware of when that balance is in danger and to mitigate the proper response. I would like to add to your observation that the Spirits role in this is not perfunctory by any means but as the main and only guide we have to preserve this balance. He brings us Christ’s’ balance in a world of constant stimuli. This is what kept Christ so incredibly edgy and relevant.
Response #2
First Reflection by Ghenadie Girleanu
I enjoyed your comments on Salvation. I too think that people tend to frame salvation as being too simple or too complicated. We want so much to understand salvation within our way of life that it’s often stretched from the most polar opposites to fit into our thinking. I believe that the most beautiful aspect of the story of salvation is its transforming power. To be clear, I mean it’s intrinsic saving power but more so it’s ambient saving power. I find that as one considers the story of salvation just that act alone creates transformation of the soul. It’s like a radioactive element where sheer exposure to it changes your chemistry. One issue I wanted to address was minor but I thought important enough not to ignore. Its on the statement you made of our power of choice being corrupt. I would like to submit that though our natures are indeed corrupt our power of choice couldn’t be corrupt. I venture to say that this aspect of us is a divine aspect. A blueprint if you will of what things should have been like. It is our corrupt nature that keeps us in bondage. Remember Paul’s statements about wanting to do good but not being able to do good. This is the divine imprint on you corrupt selves seeking for it’s full expression. We were created in God’s image in that we having the power to choose and procreate thus share in some of God’s functions but sin corrupted our interaction with these divine characteristics in their proper context.
Delvin Frazer
The discussion on atonement gave me an understanding on Christ mercy and grace in that he covers our sins as he reconciled us back to God. It is said that atonement means Christ provided reconciliation for us by offering himself as an ultimate sacrificial lamb for humanity. His atonement accomplished what the temporary sacrificial system in the Old Testament would not ultimately achieve without Christ death and resurrection from the grave. While Old Testament requires spotless lamb and different types of animal brought to the high priest forgiveness of sin on the Day of Atonement. The bible teaches that it was a typology of God’s plan of salvation for his people and their remission of sin, but the power to forgive comes from Christ by way of the priest presenting the nation guilt or sins before God in the most holy place. The apostle Paul made reference to Christ atonement throughout is letters especially to the church Corinth in 1 Corinthian 15:3-4, “For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures. “ Paul is making reference to Christ victory over sin and death that we might obtain eternal life as dead daily to sin.
Christ became incarnate in order that He should die for human sin. Whether or not the Son of God would have become Incarnate if man had not sinned, we do not know, nor do we intend to speculate. It is sufficient for us to know that it was sin which made the Cross a must in the experience of the Son of God. According to Ellen White in her book on salvation, Christ’s intercessory work was clearly viewed as being a part of the atonement. His heavenly intercession makes the implications of the cross effective for believers. As the history of God’s dealing with the sin problem unfolds, Christ applies the benefits wrought out on the cross manifest both mercy and judgment.” Christ is our advocate for what the law, lamb and doves could not accomplished he did by subjecting himself to death on the cross. He is our eternal sacrificial lamb and savior of humanity.
As it said in class that the cross must occupy the central place because it is the means of man’s atonement and because of the influence it exerts on every part of God’s divine government. Furthermore, it is more than being a central place but it is the divine compass that bridges sinners to with their God to have a mutual communicate with a holy God.
Delvin Frazer
The discussion on atonement gave me an understanding on Christ mercy and grace in that he covers our sins as he reconciled us back to God. It is said that atonement means Christ provided reconciliation for us by offering himself as an ultimate sacrificial lamb for humanity. His atonement accomplished what the temporary sacrificial system in the Old Testament would not ultimately achieve without Christ death and resurrection from the grave. While Old Testament requires spotless lamb and different types of animal brought to the high priest forgiveness of sin on the Day of Atonement. The bible teaches that it was a typology of God’s plan of salvation for his people and their remission of sin, but the power to forgive comes from Christ by way of the priest presenting the nation guilt or sins before God in the most holy place. The apostle Paul made reference to Christ atonement throughout is letters especially to the church Corinth in 1 Corinthian 15:3-4, “For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures. “ Paul is making reference to Christ victory over sin and death that we might obtain eternal life as dead daily to sin.
Christ became incarnate in order that He should die for human sin. Whether or not the Son of God would have become Incarnate if man had not sinned, we do not know, nor do we intend to speculate. It is sufficient for us to know that it was sin which made the Cross a must in the experience of the Son of God. According to Ellen White in her book on salvation, Christ’s intercessory work was clearly viewed as being a part of the atonement. His heavenly intercession makes the implications of the cross effective for believers. As the history of God’s dealing with the sin problem unfolds, Christ applies the benefits wrought out on the cross manifest both mercy and judgment.” Christ is our advocate for what the law, lamb and doves could not accomplished he did by subjecting himself to death on the cross. He is our eternal sacrificial lamb and savior of humanity.
As it said in class that the cross must occupy the central place because it is the means of man’s atonement and because of the influence it exerts on every part of God’s divine government. Furthermore, it is more than being a central place but it is the divine compass that bridges sinners to with their God to have a mutual communicate with a holy God.
Delvin Frazer
The discussion on atonement gave me an understanding on Christ mercy and grace in that he covers our sins as he reconciled us back to God. It is said that atonement means Christ provided reconciliation for us by offering himself as an ultimate sacrificial lamb for humanity. His atonement accomplished what the temporary sacrificial system in the Old Testament would not ultimately achieve without Christ death and resurrection from the grave. While Old Testament requires spotless lamb and different types of animal brought to the high priest forgiveness of sin on the Day of Atonement. The bible teaches that it was a typology of God’s plan of salvation for his people and their remission of sin, but the power to forgive comes from Christ by way of the priest presenting the nation guilt or sins before God in the most holy place. The apostle Paul made reference to Christ atonement throughout is letters especially to the church Corinth in 1 Corinthian 15:3-4, “For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures. “ Paul is making reference to Christ victory over sin and death that we might obtain eternal life as dead daily to sin.
Christ became incarnate in order that He should die for human sin. Whether or not the Son of God would have become Incarnate if man had not sinned, we do not know, nor do we intend to speculate. It is sufficient for us to know that it was sin which made the Cross a must in the experience of the Son of God. According to Ellen White in her book on salvation, Christ’s intercessory work was clearly viewed as being a part of the atonement. His heavenly intercession makes the implications of the cross effective for believers. As the history of God’s dealing with the sin problem unfolds, Christ applies the benefits wrought out on the cross manifest both mercy and judgment.” Christ is our advocate for what the law, lamb and doves could not accomplished he did by subjecting himself to death on the cross. He is our eternal sacrificial lamb and savior of humanity.
As it said in class that the cross must occupy the central place because it is the means of man’s atonement and because of the influence it exerts on every part of God’s divine government. Furthermore, it is more than being a central place but it is the divine compass that bridges sinners to with their God to have a mutual communicate with a holy God.
Delvin Frazer
Romans 8:17 (NKJV)
And if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him (Christ), that we may also be glorified together.
The theme of suffering and glory is a familiar one in New Testament thought. It is based on the conviction that the believers must follow the same route and receive the same reward that Christ received. In Romans, Paul is convicted that suffering with Christ is sharing the same spiritual journey as Christ did in his ministry. Paul regards suffering "with Christ" as an unavoidable aspect of being "in Christ." Our conformity to Christ requires ongoing suffering "with Christ." It is to be noted that suffering "with Christ" is not the same as being baptized into Christ's death. The latter idea refers to our incorporation into Christ through faith. The idea is rather the inescapable activity of suffering with and for Christ that ensues upon our incorporation into Christ. These ongoing sufferings of Christ embodied now in believers must be redemptive, just as were Christ's sufferings on the cross. Our suffering "with Christ" is, like Christ's suffering, experienced on behalf of God's creation.
The hope of believers--the hope of sharing in the glory of God (5:2)--is at the same time the hope of release from all travail. While we suffer now, we do so with a certain confidence, for Christ's resurrection and glorification assures us of our own resurrection. Because of God's love, seen most clearly in Jesus Christ, whom God gave up for us all (8:32), we then suffer in hope, and so our suffering is limited by the certainty that we are being "conformed to the image of [God's] son" (8:29). Just as Christ Jesus, the revealer of God's love (8:39), knew both suffering and glorification, so do we. We suffer knowing that the outcome of suffering is glory and so we will receive "all things with [Christ Jesus]" (8:32). Struggling and suffering are a refining process through which every believer must pass. It forces us to trust in God. He pulls away our false securities. It enlarges, purifies, expands and ennobles the believer. It makes us more like what we will be like when we actually see Jesus face to face. Hurts pains persecutions are used by God to get our attention.
Response # 3
To: MRamirez Submission #4
Your thought provoking remarks gave me a quite a bit of wrestling mentally. I haven’t read the article yet but I plan to and I hope to gain some more insight but for now I would like to contribute to your thoughts and maybe help out in reaching a clearer understanding. I would have to agree that the ransom model presents some question marks that are not easily settled. The sort of self-propagated cause and effect dynamic that God seems to create seems at best perfunctory. That said, it would be good to remember that our minds our so infinitely limited and that His ways are far above our understanding. While this reminder serves as a good tether for our theological review it does not abate the plausibility of such a view. And if were not careful to reach some understanding this could undermine our interpretation of the plan of salvation. So…could we sensible make such a claim of God: that He created a vacuum for love that only He could satisfy. Possibly. The discomfort ensues when we attempt to define that possibility. Pretension appears to be one of the accusations. The only problem is simplistically complex; could we find any platform from which to judge divine prerogative. Even Job had to learn through a number of unmerciful questions on the ways of divinity. His famous answer remains as the best reply to such an onslaught of question.
Response # 4
To: MRamirez Reflection# 3 Mysteries of God & Legal Universal Justification
I could understand your frustration. I think it came to me when I saw what limits mankind are willing to face to explain and propagate evolution. They are so quarrelsome and anxious they can even debunk each other from their paranoia and unsettled curiosity. The zest and zeal that religious scholars bring to their debates are too a source for vitriol and pride. I read somewhere that science is a Latin word meaning to know. Very simple definition if you ask me. In the case of human beings it seems one must add to this definition: -at all cost to humanity and its subordinates. I should balance my statements by saying that we have a privilege to created in the image of God. One of the most distinct characteristics of this privilege is knowledge. And certainly our brain has the capacity to take in quite a bit of information. God however is limitless and as our creator far more than we will ever think to need. I think what can sometimes drive these apologists of either camp is a desire to explain God. All created beings, especially us, must happily abide in our destiny to be eternally pursuers of the knowledge of God. This knowledge is not a mere quantitative endeavor but the experiential lifeblood of fulfilling our highest purpose…worshiping Him.
response:Vladimir Isaac Assignment3
Appreciate your post. It was like a brief synopsis of the great controversy early scenes in heaven. You set a wonderful background of how content Lucifer should have been and how erroneous his rebellion was. It was vividly clear when you stated “Christ on the cross has taken away his royal garment to dress with the dirtiest dress ever for our sake.” This statement shows the awesomeness of God’s love and the lengths He was willing to take to safe man. The post makes it clear that salvation the action of save took place in heaven in that the God head didn’t just sit around but took action to save man.
Richard Cahoun Romans 15
Romans 15 paints a beautiful picture of everyday life of the Christian walk. Verse one states that the strong should help bear the infirmities of the week and not seek to please ourselves. This is the completely the opposite of what the world tells us. The world tells us look out for number one because as Darwinism states it’s the survival of the fittest and only the strong survive. I like how Paul points out that this Is what Jesus did he was a burden barer an up lifter of the broken and the down trodden. Paul is saying to me, care for your broken brother is not just some good thing to do its, not some Boy Scout honor it is Christ like and as a Christian I should be striving for Christ-like-ness. Further in the chapter he lets the reader know that your brother means all your brothers and that this love God has put in your heart ought to be bigger than this Jew Gentile thing. Paul also reminds us that we don’t help begrudgingly but we should be overjoyed to be used as a tool in the masters hand in helping to rebuild those who are broken.
Romans 10
Romans 10 brings out some wonderful and unfortunately often forgotten points on salvation. Paul stars by letting the reader know that he wants people to come to a saving knowledge of Jesus. Then he identifies the hiccup in some people’s attempt. They have zeal of God and they have righteousness but it’s their own righteousness and they have not submitted to Gods righteousness. Here we are faced with a spiritual conundrum, it is possible to have an earnest zeal for God but yet not submit to his righteousness? Fortunate for us the chapter does not end there. Paul states that the end or fulfillment of the Law is Jesus and that Moses describe the righteous of the law. Here Paul is taking us deeper if you stop here some come to the conclusion that the Law has been done away with through Jesus. It seems that what Paul is addressing is people focusing on what they can do instead of what Jesus ahs done for them. They are focusing on the Method instead of the Methodologist, Focusing on the way instead of the Way-maker, focused on who you were instead of whose you were. So Paul refocuses the brethren For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Verse 13. Then paul states a need that no pastor of any denomination ever has any problem understanding and there is pretty much no debate and that is the need for pastors to preach. The the chapter ends with what I like to call a knockout punch to those still clinging to their own righteousness. Verse 20But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. God is saying through his servant I reached out to Israel and they couldn’t find me and those who were not even looking for me found me. Paul is reminding using that salvation is not a magical procedure but salvation is the rescue of sinners by a Loving Savior.
Some Theological Considerations of Perfection by Edward Heppenstall BRI doc
Can the Christian on this pilgrim’s journey be perfect? Depends on who you ask some say yes some say no. Why would the bible say be ye perfect if it was not possible? Many times as Christians the word perfect scares us we treat it like kryptonite. The minute the word is spoken we immediately think of our own short comings and how we don’t meet up to the criteria for which we think is necessary to be considered perfect. Bro Heppenstall article I believe is design to clear some of that anxiety and seek to see what the bible means by perfect and not what connotations we place on it. Bro Heppenstall concurs “It is therefore imperative that we study to grasp, as far as possible the Scriptural meaning and use of perfection and avoid arbitrary interpretations of our own”. According to Heppenstall the most important word translated "perfect" in the New Testament is the Greek word "teleios." This word is derived from the substantive "telos" usually rendered "goal," "purpose," "end." Therefore leading one to believe that being perfect is the achievement of spiritual maturity, a Christian stability from which ones does not turn back, an unshakeable allegiance to the Living God. A stance in which a child of God would chose death before dishonor and say like Job tho he slay me yet I will serve him. Heppenstall continues further but if I were to put a nautilus in a nut shell I would say biblical perfection is not so much focused on the Christian being without out sin but reaching a point in which Christ comes first no matter what. When they are right Christ is first when they are confused Christ is first and when they are wrong Christ is first and when they become aware of their wrong they take it to Jesus and do what they can to make it right.
Response # 5
To: Vladymir Isaac: Was Christ like Adam before the fall of after the fall?
A wonderful question Pastor Isaac! Its premise creates a natural tension that plays out in our understanding of the works of Christ redemption of us. It is an understanding plagued with interpolations from one side to another. One song I remember says how could divinity be clothed in humanity. This is quite a bit to take in and that’s without considering that Christ divinity was self-limited because he was still God and in the flesh, Emanuel. This mystery is at once enlightening and elusive. You raised the point quite accurately in your reflection that is fact is a paradox that humans will just have to except as the sky being blue. The only exception that I would take with your submission I must credit to Dr. Hanna’s class on the “Works of Christ”. It was in that class that he expanded my understanding that was not much different from your submission, to be more holistic. He suggested that Christ was both pre and post fall. Now the comments you made for the pre-fall argument was fair in my view. To add to that view: though Christ has an incorruptible nature he did not have an incorruptible body. This was to validate his need for God and example to us as his predecessors.
Ellen White on Salvation Chapter 17
Chapter 17 is rightly entitled “What does it all mean?” Yes we can wrestle with issue with Justification. Scholars can debate the ability of the Christian to become perfect. We can lose sight of what really matter and treat others like second class citizens in our quest for perfectionism as the extreme perfectionist of our times. Most often when these topics are addressed an air of pessimism fills the room doubt crowds the believers minds and the haunting idea of being perfect as impossibility arises. The author brings out that this does not have to be the case and uses Sis Whites optimism as an example. “Ellen White was most optimistic about what could be accomplished when the human will is combined with divine power. Great heights of character development will result. And can we not call this good news? I am personally thankful that I do not have to be burdened with any hereditary or cultivated defect. Certainly there is victory not only from the guilt of but also the power of sin! “More importantly the bible tells us with God all things are possible so we should not limit the great things God can do through even sinful mankind.
Response #6
To: Pastor Paradise 1st Submission
Pastor Paradise I appreciate the framework that you set for studying the scriptures as well as the framework for reading Ellen White. There are many things that we assume when we study these documents of faith that create a modal and unusable theology leaving us frustrated and spent. I believe its necessary to stop and remind ourselves what in fact were doing and what kind of implications it has. One minor slip, God forbid, could lead to another great disappointment. This astonishing reality creates a mindset that I believe humbles the faithful steward of God’s word and tethers them to its Messenger and message.
Response # 7
To: Pastor Thomas Ong’ou 6/25
Our journey in this life is writ with strife and frustrations. Often times the reason we encounter such pains are not because of the calamities of a sinful world. Our experiences are at times punctuated by our negative relationships. I agree with your assessment of our journey to perfection with one exception. The nature of our journey to perfection starts at the time we accept Christ into our lives. Thus in your relationship paradigm I would declare our relationship with Christ to be the most important one. This relationship thankfully and hopefully will never end but continues throughout the ages. It is for this reason I believe that our journey to perfection never ends.
Response #8
To: Alexis Submission on 6/25/10
Alexis I enjoyed your questions very much on the topic of Roman’s 14. It’s a very interesting passage to read. I think it’s one of those passages that show how well rounded Paul was. The gospel that infected him was a transforming gospel. It was so transforming that it took a man who was once a persecutor to the church and turned him into a protagonists in the church martyrdom. I appreciated how you reframed the message of this passage into a more modern context. It is sort of quizzical that the same issues that plagued the Romans, unless Paul was speaking allegorically, is no plaguing the SDA community. I think that your friends’ interpretation is well meaning but is limited in its view. I believe anyone who reads this passage and walks away with a list of to do’s and to don’ts robs this degree of its beauty. I love that a lot of Paul’s most controversial texts create a system where one must retain The Spirit. His statements are implicitly codified to require the Spirit for interpretation and implementation.
Neil Gordon
DOS Blog Post 3
Addressing the silent commandment, the one no one sees but only you know, Covetousness. Paul says there is a war within his members wanting to be delivered from the body of death, which can only be done through Christ Jesus. The silent assassin lurking in our mind willing us to do or think things that are beyond us or do not pertain to our personal growth is a constant struggle I know I face on a daily basis. I am thankful that Paul is so transparent on this subject being vulnerable enough to share with us how challenging the Christian can be at times. However, despite all these calamities there is nothing to hard for God. I bless the Lord for all that he allowed Paul to go through so that I could be blessed with his words of encouragement in my life. It seems that I have much more homework to do regarding the New Testament and systematic theology; there is so much I just haven’t noticed before. I am grateful for the additional tools enabling me to share all things with my bible students regarding the humanness of the individuals in the bible
Neil Gordon
DOS-Blog post 1
August 2, 2010
Righteousness by Faith was a concept I thought I understood fully, I’ve come to realize I was still far from a deep understanding. After reading and listening to class discussions I saw a new idea about the same message. Christ is Faith personified, sure it was always there I’m just admitting that I did not look at Him being the Faith that replaced what the law could not do. Since I am focused on Old Testament I went back and re read some of the Torah to realize He was always the very thing words present him to be. He is wisdom, He is Faith, He is Righteousness, and He is Salvation. Since He is all of the aforementioned it can also be given or imputed to us. I am still learning more about the sensitivity required to push forward and I thank God for the new synaptic connections gained every day by the renewing of my mind. I can honestly say I am a pressing on the upward way. Of course the Spirit took me to many other places in scripture revealing additional insight that was always there, praise the Lord.
Neil Gordon
DOS Blog Post 2
Romans 11 and our class discussion on the remnant was a humbling experience and a reminder how important it is to stay focused on Christ and not the infrastructure. Throughout time God has always chosen a small few to lead the church forward and if I think at any time I am entitled to whatever I want just because I am a member of church I am sadly mistaken. The words in class again points me back to grace through faith in Jesus and not by the works only. I can’t stay in slumber I must work daily to grow in grace and in my working no boasting lest I fall! As He said to Elijah I have seven thousand who have not bowed to bail. I am just grateful for the opportunity to spread the word with others. Being a seminary student has honestly been one of the most rewarding parts of my life. I realize that I bring meaning to the world through scripture, Praise God.
I find this quote from E.G. White quite impressive, and I which to reflect on it for a while for the sake of our present discussion. “The gift of Christ reveals the Father’s heart…. It declares that while God’s hatred of sin is as strong as death, His love for the sinner is stronger than death, Having undertaken our redemption, He will spare nothing, however dear, which is necessary to the completion of His work…. The whole treasury of heaven is open to those He seeks to save” (DA 57). For some of us the problem hardly need further explanation at all. The idea that God saves the world in Christ is just more than we think and ever can imagine, when properly understood especially from the advent of God, it appears multi-dimensional. From the quote ‘the whole treasure of heaven is open to those He seeks to save’ portends that God will not stop at exercising all available mean /medium to making sure that salvation is made possible for all human race. It is so fascinating to know that the Father’s love for the sinner is far incomprehensible compared to His hatred for sin itself. I feel if we truly understand this concept, we would know how God works in and through other religions as instruments of temporal, existential and historical salvation to millions or even billions of people if you may.
The Substitutionary Atonement of Christ
The whole idea of the biblical teaching on atonement as finding a common ground otherwise known as reconciliation with God and human race of course through Christ stands out among other pillars of our doctrine. Historical, several proposed models emphases this concept in different dimensions; I wish to share what I find fascinating about the substitutionary atonement of Christ by first embarking on a field trip on the various thoughts. I have particular enjoyed Anselm’s version of the “idea of satisfaction” claiming that since God alone could atone for sin, which humanity was under the obligation to pay, so therefore it was necessary for the God-man to pay the satisfaction price for human kind. Thus this satisfaction was made possible through the voluntary death of Christ for the sins of the world. The idea of “reparation, ransom, and expiation” didn’t quite sit well with my understanding of God’s nature. I do not wish to believe that God is a feudal lord and his justice is arbitrary. Abelard’s proposed moral influenced may appear to counter balance that of Anselm’s but utilized same idea as the price, sacrifice, merit, much more central to his theory is that divine love awakens human’s response of love. For Abelard, love is the motive, method and also the result of God’s redemption. I consider this approach a interesting, because “Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends… John 15:13” for me this theory is so fascinating because of the power of love. According to Abelard, “love is the motive, method, and result” and understandably it’s the universal language, which is why all the universe is drawn to God, and the awareness of God’s right of ownership. It is not arbitrary, it is just spontaneity, it encumbers the sense of authentic community, spiritual fellowship, and a right relationship with God. This is awesome! There may be have several other model of atonement but reading (“ God sending His Son as an offering for sin_ Rom 8:3”; “made Him, who knew no sin, to be sin for us_ 2Cor 5:21”;) and several other references makes sense of the substitutionary atonement. Christ death for the sinner makes it a vicarious death in that “while we were yet sinners_ Rom 5:8,9” meaning that as enemies of God’s grace, God himself stood condemned, (by taking upon himself the sins of the world and becoming sin for us!) and at the same time Justified in His substitutionary death. The substitutionary atonement brings God under trail, while moral influence justifies God’s motive. Praise the Lord!!!
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