Correct hermeneutics can go a long way into discovering the true meaning of a biblical text. This is also true for the writings of Ellen White. Our class discussion over the first couple days of class has illustrated the fact that the way we approach a text of scripture or phrase of Sister White’s writings determines whether or not we will correctly interpret it. We cannot separate the symbolic and the literal as potential meanings for a phrase. There have been countless examples of people taking Ellen White’s books, articles, and letters and removing phrases from their proper contexts. This has landed many people into trouble when trying to prove points in their predetermined agenda. In Whidden’s book, he addresses the fact that many will draw a phrase out of context to prove their point, and use it to win arguments regarding their conclusions. With the vast amount of material that Ellen White has written, it is virtually possible to prove any point conceivable from a text of her writings. However, just because one phrase in the midst of millions appears to buttress one side does not necessarily mean that it is the overall stance that she takes on the theme in question. When dealing with the concepts of perfection and salvation, Whidden seeks to show what Sister White’s overall themes were throughout her lifetime. This includes the writings that were published, the letters that she sent to various individuals, and her actions and words outside of her literary work. That gives us a broader, more holistic context with which we can evaluate her central themes. We will be looking at the Adventist doctrine of salvation in this class, and it will be important for us to examine all of our class material in a proper context. This includes viewing texts in both a literal and symbolic fashion. Whidden has concluded through study of all of the elements of Ellen White’s life that her view on justification and perfection are closely related, and that they cannot be separated. It would be easy to take a statement out of context, and assume she leans one way or another in her viewpoint on salvation and justification, but I am looking forward to reading Whidden’s more holistic approach to her work by looking at the breadth of her life and teachings.
Name: Enock O. Bigogo Reading Assignment 1. Dates: June 8, 2010 Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of Ellen G.White (BRI Doc.) The article by Angel M. Rodriguez highlights the following points: 1. Results of Adam’s fall • Adam’s fall created a separation between God and man. This doesn’t mean that God ceased to love man but that sin made it impossible for His love to reach him. • This fall lead to loss of privileges that were at man’s disposal before fall. These included the blocked way to the tree of life, loss of the “cloth of light” which signifies the holiness of God, and the ability to learn God’s character from nature. • Adam’s sin opened the door into the slavery of sin. Man by himself could not any more be able to resist the temptations of Satan. Sinfulness became his nature and all his descendants with him. • Death was the ultimate destiny of every seed of Adam, and misery was an inescapable part of life. 2. Human Solidarity and Adam • Adam, by the fact that he was the father of all humanity, he became the head of the family and our representative. • Through Adam the entire human race sinned, though not by practical participation as if the rest of humanity was mystically present in him. But since he could pass to his descendants only what he had/was, sinful nature became an inheritance for his race. They all faced the consequence of sin. Thereby, the fate of death wasn’t Adam’s but it became ours too. • Without God’s intervention, there was no hope for the Adam. Only through the offer of salvation and the promise of the Messiah that he could find hope, and when Adam accepted this offer this hope opened a window of opportunity to his race to access salvation-hope. 3. What God did for Adam • Through Christ, God broke the slavery of sin and in Christ the human race can overcome sin. My comments: This study in a way lays a broader foundation to the study of the book of Romans which has much to do with the remedy that God offers to the fallen humanity, namely, salvation. A better understanding of the nature and effect of Adam’s fall of course breaks the ground where the seed of “righteousness by faith” which equals salvation in this case, will grow. Unless this is understood, then the Savior’s redemptive work will not be appreciated as it ought, and will not find footing. This is to say that learning the challenge presented by the fall of Adam sheds great light to the need of the cross is discussed in Romans.
One thing bugs me about many of our (that’s a corporate “our”, implicating the whole Church) presentations to outsiders is that we often start our study at an intermediate level. That is, we tend to assume that our contacts already know the basics of salvation and Christ, and it’s just our job to straighten out a few bad doctrines. While this might be true on some occasions, it’s important to go back to basics from time to time. Thankfully our lectures with Dr. Hanna, as well as my readings in Romans & Ellen White on Salvation, all seem to feel like a “fresh start” in our studies of the doctrine of salvation.
Paul opened Romans by setting a firm foundation upon which his audience could understand. Paul’s writings were based on the Old Testament, which was communicated by God through to His Prophets (v. 2). He doesn’t even assume that his audience knows the correct process of inspiration (having never met them). Paul introduces Jesus same way that Matthew did in his gospel, as a seed of David (v.3, compare to Matthew 1:1). The work of the Holy Spirit, a favorite topic for Paul’s more established churches (like Ephesus), is also introduced in a very basic way in (v.4). Paul builds his final foundation in verse 5, informing the Romans that grace and apostleship are both received from Jesus and that their result is obedience.
At this point, I should note that I’ve enjoyed Dr. Hanna’s presentations on the grace/works discussion. As a convert, perhaps I just don’t get why it’s so complicated for some people to get, but I applaud our professor’s noble determination to get back to basics. We are not saved by keeping the law, no matter how hard we try. In fact, the harder we try, the further short of the standard we fall. We should keep the law BECAUSE we’re saved, not in order to be saved. Yes, this includes Sabbath-keeping and health-message-adhering. Hitler was a vegetarian, and Jesus was not. (Oops, did I just say that out loud?) Our works are a result of receiving the gift of God’s love.
Dr. Whidden showed clearly how Ellen White fell into this trap early on in life. At just 9 years old, she felt the need to come to the Lord to confess her sins – a good thing – but just a few years later was taught by a well-intended William Miller that her life was still not up to Christ’s standards as the Second Coming approached – a bad thing. She felt that she “could never become worthy to be called a child of God” (1 T 15, 16; Whidden p. 16). She was terrified that she would be lost because of the constant emphasis on obedience to Christ without also teaching of Jesus’s grace and mercy. She found peace because of the camp meeting of a Methodist preacher (not an Adventist), and was baptized 5 years after she first started her journey towards the Lord.
Even as I read through the documents on salvation on the BRI website, I get the feeling that some of us have gone so deep in Scripture that we forget to come back to the surface for the basics. I was reading the article about the 1888 Message Study Committee’s presentation on universal justification, and I can’t help but wonder how they can still call themselves Adventist. They latch onto 2 texts in Romans that might possibly support their doctrine, but ignore the teaching of two CHAPTERS from the book of Revelation (19-20). Not everybody’s going to make it in the end. (This is also what happens when we start teaching from a literalistic point of view.)
It’s important to preach our message of Present Truth, of the unique revelations that the Lord has given to the Seventh-day Adventist people, and of similar intermediate and advanced topics. However, let us not forget to go back from time to time and get back to basics for the sake of both visitors and members alike. Remember, we’re all sinners who have fallen short of the glory of God (on our own). It is the gift of God, because of His love for us, which we might yet still be glorified in the name of our Lord and Savior.
I appreciate the comment pastor Paradise has made on this blog. I agree with your points that correct hermeneutic is crucial in interpreting texts, and as you have mentioned, it will be achieved by taking a holistic approach by means of looking at the context around the text.
In response to Enock's post, I have to agree with him that the Angel Rodriguez article was a fine read. What I tend to see from the relationship between Christ and Adam is a fresh start, and almost an altogether new race. Through the substitution of Christ, we are essentially given a new future and a new path for history. Because the "slavery of sin" was broken, we are able to focus more clearly on redemption rather than the fall.
Brief Response on: "Getting on at the ground level"
I cannot agree more that we have often made a mistake of starting people at an intermediate level. I believe there is danger in making an assumption that people have the similar level of knowledge on any given subject. I also agree that we often make the mistake of taking plain truth, and trying to make it more complicated than it ought to be.
There are some people that make Salvation to be too simplistic. They think of Salvation as just giving your heart to Jesus once and that is enough. After that you can do whatever you want and you will never loose your Salvation. In religious circles this is called “once saved, always saved.” But there are some people that go to the other extreme and make Salvation a very complicated concept. These are the Pharisees in Jesus’ time. These are the Pharisees in our time and in our churches today. I think as a church and as individuals we have been guilty of the second extreme. Not too many people in our churches follow the line of thinking of the theory “once saved, always saved,” but may live by the principle of legalism. So, the question that I have is, what is Salvation? For me Salvation is neither simplistic nor complicated. Salvation for me is a complex concept. The complexity of Salvation is expressed through what is at stake. When we talk about Salvation everything is at stake, we are either in or out, either have eternal life, or eternal death. There is no middle ground in Salvation. Another factor that contributes to the complexity of Salvation is the fact that all the doctrines of the Bible are intertwined in this one doctrine. We cannot discuss Salvation without bringing up all the other doctrines. Woodrow Whidden shows how this principle works in the writings of Ellen White. The topic of Salvation cannot be disassociated from other doctrines. But the biggest factor that contributes to the complexity of the topic of Salvation is its apparent contradictions. When we talk about Salvation we find so many things that at the first glance contradict each other. Some examples are: faith vs. works; law vs. grace; justified freely vs. bought by a price; justified by doing of the law vs. justified apart from the law; free will vs. predestination. I would like to shortly touch here on the idea of the free will. How does the free will work in the process of Salvation? It is very interesting to note that from the beginning God created us with the ability to choose. This was the greatest risk that God overtook. When God gave us the power of the free will He limited Himself. God cannot force us to choose Him. After sin our free will has been corrupted. In our own strength we cannot choose what is good. Ellen White supports this idea that God never forces our will. The question that rises here is, if God never forces our will, and if our will is so deprived that we could never choose what is good, then how can we be saved? If we are not able to choose on our own to be saved and at the same time God doesn’t force us to choose salvation, the question is, what are the chances for us to be saved? Is there a middle ground between these two? I think that the answer is found in the idea of the grace of God. Our free will is deprived and that is why we cannot choose on our own to be saved, but the grace of God gives us the ability to be able to choose Christ. It is God’s initiative in Salvation. If it wasn’t for grace, we would be alive, but condemned to death, without a chance of Salvation. I think that Ephesians 2:8-10 says it best, “8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” As we see, faith is important as well as the works, but Salvation is through grace of God. Ellen White supports this idea in her writings. She says in the book “Counsels to Parents, Teachers, and Students” on page 544, “We are unable of ourselves to pursue a right course. It is only by the grace of God, combined with the most earnest effort on our part, that we can gain the victory.” I think this quote and the text in Ephesians provide a very good middle ground for the dilemma that I described at the end of the previous paragraph.
In class, we have spent quite a bit of time discussing the balance, or tension, between law and grace. This is a necessary discussion, especially in a class that addresses the doctrine of salvation. As Adventists, this discussion is even more necessary given our historical emphasis on the law. Since both law and grace are emphasized in scripture, we need to emphasize both teachings if we are truly going to be a people of the Book. And if we are going to have a proper, and Biblically based, understanding of salvation, we cannot afford to disregard an understating of the relationship between law and grace. I believe that most of the confusion is caused by a superficial reading of passages in scripture that emphasize, seemingly to the extreme, either law or grace. Paul, for example, declares: “For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous” (Romans 2:8). Yet in another place Paul, just as emphatically, declares: “For it is by grace you have been saved, though faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8, 9). Anyone reading these passages, or other passages like them, can become easily confused. If a person is saved by grace, then what role does the law play? And if I try to keep the law, then where does grace come in? It is almost as if the Bible switches back and forth between the requirements. What are we to do with these passages, and how are we to balance them in our understanding of salvation? I propose that the key to understanding these passages, and therefore the balance between law and grace, is attained when a person considers the recipients of these texts. It is important to realize that “rules” are not made in a vacuum. Statements, especially strong ones, are not conjured up without reason. For example, most households do not put up a sign in their bathroom that reads: “The person that uses up the toilet paper must replace it.” For most households this practice is assumed. But perhaps in a particular household this has become a significant problem. People are constantly using up the toilet paper without replacing it. It would make sense, then, to put up a sign that would remind the forgetful individuals. Likewise, the authors of the books of the Bible did not write in a vacuum. In the Scriptures we have several books, written by several individuals, addressed to specific people. If a prophet knew that a particular problem existed among a certain group, then that prophet would address that problem. If the problem were legalism, then the prophet would need to emphasize grace. If the problem were lawlessness, then the prophet would emphasize the law. This, then, would bring about the desired balance between the two. This works in our personal lives as well. If we have a tendency to be more grace oriented, then we need strong statements about the law to keep us balanced. A reminder of the duty we need to perform becomes necessary. More statements about grace would continue to push us in the wrong direction. Instead, we need statements that will pull us back to the center. This is why the Bible is written the way it is. It is designed to keep us centered. It will only work, however, if we take the bible in its entirety. If we avoid the statements that emphasize law, the Bible looses its ability to keep us balanced. The key for understanding these passages, then, is in the recipient of the message. As long as we understand that grace needs to be emphasized where law abounds, and law needs to be emphasized where grace abounds, we should be able to appreciate these beautiful statements in scripture. And if we allow the Holy Spirit to inspect our hearts and reveal to us which side we lean toward the most, we will know which passages to emphasize in our own lives.
In response to Jonathan's post I would like to say that I completely agree with the idea that the key to understanding the passages that have an apparent contradiction or tension is by considering the recipients of the text in question. I think that Dr. Hannah said it right in the beginning of our class that we need to read between the lines of Apostle Paul's writings if we want to understand them. This is not an easy task and it should be done with much prayer, because otherwise we can read much more into the text than we should.
I really appreciate the comments made by Paradise in his post about the need for correct hermeneutics in reading the Scriptures as well as the writings of Ellen White. I think that we are on a right track in this class as well as in other classes when we apply a holistic approach to the Scriptures and the writings of Ellen White. I wish we can teach our members that use the Writings of Ellen White as a weapon of mass destruction to apply the same approach.
Reflection #2 On: Doctrine of Universal “Legal” Justification. By Larry J. Kane This doctrine is based on wrong theology because the scriptures sited and construed to support it are misinterpreted. • Romans 3:23,24 When read in the immediate and broader context, these verses deal with justification by faith (on condition of faith), which in not universal and unconditional. As free as the gift of salvation is, it has to be accepted by faith or it’s lost. True as it is that through one man(Adam)all were counted sinners and through Christ all have access to eternal salvation, scripture points that justification comes to those who receive it by faith. • Romans 5:12-18 Read on the background of Romans chapter 3 shows that justification dealt with is by faith. If chapter 5:18 is understood to mean universal justification(unconditional justification) it conflicts with Romans 8:1 where only those in Christ are shown to be justified by Christ’s righteousness. The 1888 Message Study Committee understood that those “in Christ” referred to all people regardless of whether they believe or not. However, this is not correct since it’s only those who believe that have escaped condemnation and those who don’t are condemned (John 3:18; 5:24.) Dr. Waggoner understood scripture so and thereby tied free justification to the condition of faith. On the other hand, E.G. White also illustrates that there is justification only in Christ’s atoning sacrifice but which is received on condition –faith in Christ. She further knew of justification by faith as the only biblical one and that it included the imputed and imparted elements. It’s true that if Christ’s righteousness is imputed to all, regardless of their believing or not, Christ would not have said that “he who believes will be saved”. And since there isn’t any other verse that gives foundation to the doctrine of Universal legal justification, other than those sighted above, its not safe to propagate what will contradict the rest of scripture. This article by Larry J. Kane shed good light on the study of Romans and the understanding of justification at large.
Assign no #1 My reflection for this week is majorly going to be based on the introduction and of the course by Dr.Hanna and the materials I read in the BRI,whidden Woodrow’s book Ellen white on salvation and the bible the book of Romans chap. 1-3.As any other bible scholar I have got myself in a situation where I cannot distinguish between the symbolic and literal meaning of the scripture. This keeps me wondering what meaning is applicable in each particular situation, but most of my answers were being answered within the class discussion. The other issue that was so important for me to me was the answers from Dr.hanna concerning the emerged question on what should a pastor do in situation where the pastor has met to conservatives and the liberals in the church how should he bring unity between the two extremes, hence integrity and wisdom from above were was suggested to be the best model to handle this situation of course not forgetting that the answerers should be from the final authority the bible, On the second part of this paper, I read on how Ellen white was also struggling with how she will get the inner peace and her assurance for salvation .The only picture we used to have concerning her is that she was perfect ,having visions and dream for anything dilemma she could face but it took her time also to overcome some of the internal conflicts of what we possessed from our first parents a dam and eve, secondly most denominations perceive we as the Adventist base our salvation on works but as I was reading this materials I discovered that both the writings of Ellen G. white, the bible, and the materials I read from the BRI did not mention anything like our perfection will earn us salvation. That is why Paul was saying in the book of Romans 1:8 am not a shamed of the gospel for it is a power of God that brings a salvation to anyone who believes. The third issue was about what I read about sin. The impact of sin was so high that it brought, in that its impact from the time it was committed to the present is so catastrophic .The man whom God himself to be his own turns to be his own enemy, but see how much God loved us that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believed should not perish but have eternal life. Jesus came to bridge the gap that nobody could ever bridge. The fourth aspect which also came along was of the laws [commandments} hence can one be saved by simply keeping the commandments? The answer is no. though the commandments reflect the character of character of God, they cannot save anybody. Lastly this week, I saw in a new dimension on how the gospel breaks the barriers between the circumcised and the uncircumcised, to the Jews and to the gentiles, once we are in Christ, we have already we received a common circumcision, born as children of God Jesus ‘s blood on the cross brought salvation to the entire world, thus should be the centre of the doctrine of salvation.
After reading Romans Chapters 1-4, Chapters 1-4 in the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II and the four articles, Primacy of the Gospel Committee-Report, Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E.G. White, Salvation by Faith, and Some Problems with Legal universal justification, from BRI, my insight on Salvation and God’s offer to save man from their sins has become a little clearer. Romans 1:16, states that salvation is offered to everyone. In order to understand and possible come up with some understanding of this offer, I decided to equate the offer of Salvation to the offer in a business contract. In order to have a business contract there needs to be an offer and an acceptance. If there is an offer, but no acceptance, a contract is not established. The offer, in the case of salvation, is Jesus Christ death on Calvary for our sins. The offer must also have an offerer, the one who gives the offer. In case of Salvation, God is the offerer. He offered His son, Jesus Christ as atonement, forgiveness, of our sins. Mankind is then the offeree, the one the offer is directed to and the one who can accept or reject the offer. If mankind accepts the offer then Salvation belongs to him/her. If he/she rejects the offer then he/she suffers the consequences of rejecting the offer, which is eternal death. My first question is, why would man reject the offer? I can only go back and identify a few reasons why someone would reject a business offer. 1. First they might not have confident (faith) in the offerer or do not know the offerer. 2. Secondly, the offer might be too good to be true, hence, the offeree is skeptical and do not believe the offer to be genuine. 3. Next, the offeree might not know that he/she needed the offer, therefore they ignorant the deal. 4. The offeree might think that the offer is open indefinitely and they can accept the offer any time they are ready to do so. Rejecting the offer of salvation carries with it a great penalty. Since accepting the offer saves us form sin rejecting the offer leads to the rewards of sin which is eternal death. “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 6:23. If it is skepticism, doubt, or fear that makes offeree uncertainty of the offer of the offerer, then he/she should investigate the evidence of the offer and the offeree before arriving at a foregone conclusion. If there is validity in the offer and offerer then is might seem wise to accept the offer. Unfortunately, ever if the evidences are overwhelming, some might accept the offer and other will still reject it. The next question, why would mankind reject the free gift of salvation? I will not try and have a definitive answer, but only to list only two of the reasons they might reject the offer. 1. They are not fully convinced of the freeness of the gift, and believe that there is some work involved on their part before they can accept the gift. The caution here is that not all mystery of this free gift of salvation is known and it might never be known until we reach to heaven. Therefore a level of faith is needed. Mankind has to have some believe in the offer and offeree, and have the faith to accept the offer ever if they are not fully clear on why the offer is made or if they need it. 2. Mankind might believe in the offer, but would like to spend a little more time in the world and accept the offer later. This is a false sense of hope. The offerer has the right and can withdraw the offer. When this happen, even if the offeree then accepts the offer it is too late, the offer is off the table. Probation for man is not forever it will come to a close and the offer of salvation will be over. The offer of salvation is on the table for man but acceptance is needed to seal the deal for eternal life.
Respond to Michael’s assign no 1. I just wanted to thank Michael for his contribution to this discussion on his comment on starting with complications till we confuse the whole concept of what God intends us to learn, I will support him with words from Ellen white in the process of reading his the materials we were assigned to read which impressed ,the prophetess was saying that it is time to start learning new things and unlearn something’s too which new had learned before which we were not supposed to learn.
I could not agree with Jonathan more. We need a balance when reading the scriptures, and also to understand the context in which the writings were made, along with the person the comments were made to and for what reasons. Too often scriptures are taken out of content to bring about validity in the speakers point and not what the author of the text intended. Thanks Jonathan.
I also read this article and found it fascinating. Thank to Enock to take the comment on the issue of Adam and his fallen humanity. I do agree with Enock on that we need to understand and appreciate the Savior’s redemptive work, however I am not clear on the statement that “righteousness by faith” equals salvation. Is it that admitting that we are sinners and accepting salvation by faith which leads to righteousness? Thanks for your response.
Reading Assignment #1 Name : Hyo Won Date : Jun 10, 2010 Title : Living by faith & living by law
(Rm 1:17) For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written： "The righteous will live by faith."(NIV) (Hab 2:4) "See, he is puffed up; his desires are not upright--but the righteous will live by his faith-- (NIV) “Living by faith” This has been what I think over since I started my ministry as a school chaplain as well as I asked in the class a few days ago. I am sure that this is the essence of Christianity to be a true Christian. Paul used this verse from the book of Habakkuk (2:4), The Old Testament, as we know the time of Habakkuk was so confusing because more wicked Babylonians than the Jewish doing evil usurped the Jewish people God had selected. The prophet, Habakkuk struggled with voice from the above, finally found what God had meant, and said ‘the righteous will live by his faith’. I would like to say about ‘living by faith and living by law’, ask ‘which is easier in our daily life?’
Some say that living by law is far easier than that by faith. I fully agree with him from time to time though I did not learn like that. What is happening in my mind? I was messed up as a pastor, a Christian beforehand. The one who says to me about living by law keeps on saying few reasons why living by law is easier than living by faith. There are couples of things he mention. The one is that if we live by law we can feel possible for us to do by ourselves, kind of pride to do, sense of accomplishment. The other is being comfortable, that is, easiness which comes from the possibility mentioned above for the first emotion. I guess these are from the mind at which people don’t know the grace God has granted.
However, I believe ‘as it is written the righteous will live by faith’. I believe because The Bible says so, even living by law might be easy. I believe because I am feeling love from The Lord as I live by faith. I know faith is always from relationship made from love. If there is no relationship between The Lord and us, How come He let us follow Him, believe Him, and even trust Him? I believe because of His grace which is something to do with faith very much. It is easy for me to think of faith in God’s grace. Once I think His grace in my life even before, I really want to follow Him, trust Him as well.
Thank you, Richard White, for your reflection regarding the free gift of Salvation. One of the keys to your presentation was the fact that it is almost necessary to recognize God's gift as free. This is a very important thing to remember in regards to Salvation.
Response for Piasi Suleiman's Assm #1(from Hyo Won) I agree with Piasi Suleiman that Ellen White was in trouble for making innner peace, comfortness between justification and sanctification obviously in whidden's book. As a christian(before a adventist), unless there is inner peace, joy, calmness how are we called a real christian? I was just restored through whidden's book mentioning Ellen white was in trouble for peace,namely, I had a hope. I think it's a good point that Piasi Suleiman wrote.
Jared Miller Doctrine of Salvation Reflection #1 6/11/10
Reflections on What I have Read
I have enjoyed the first section Whidden’s book. He focused on Ellen White’s spiritual and theological development. From the first chapter Whidden attempts, I think successfully, to show both sides of Ellen White’s theology, and shows that her views were balanced and Biblical. I think Whidden is correct to suggest that as Ellen White grew in her walk with God that she saw “sanctification was not the work of a moment, but that of a lifetime” (22). In his chapter about the decade before 1888, Whidden again focused on the balance Ellen White had concerning justification and perfection. One example I had not read about before was one from 1878 when Elder Brown attacked Ellen White as being “‘All law, law; she believes that we must be saved by the law…’” (25). Ellen White wrote a very clear response to Brown’s attack by saying, “‘That is a false statement. Mrs. White has never occupied that position. . . .’” (25). She went on to affirm that no one is saved by keeping the law (legalism), but at the same time those who are truly saved will believe in Christ and do the works of Christ (keep the law). She clearly relied on Jesus Christ for salvation, not the keeping of the law. She called people to follow Jesus as their Savior, and as a result of being saved they would keep God’s law out of love for Him. Additionally, Whidden referred to the 1883 General Conference Session as the “‘Minneapolis before Minneapolis’” (27). Ellen White’s sermons were focused on “‘pardon and justification’” (27). Whidden suggests her view sharpened to a more Lutheran view of justification by faith alone, a view she probably learned about as she studied Reformation history in the writing of Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4, which of course eventually adapted into The Great Controversy. I am thankful for this information, and hope to read some of those sermons in the future. Lastly, I appreciated the fourth chapter which showed James White, in the years before his death, having a stronger focus on Jesus. Clearly James and Ellen’s marriage was not perfect, as neither of them were perfect. After giving some examples of Ellen White admitting her imperfection, Whidden suggests that “she thought the attitude of the ‘perfect’ would be: always humble, chastened by revelations of fallibility, but eager to press on in the race for the high goal of practical righteousness” (31).
How What I have Read Relates to the Class Discussions
Much of this material fits nicely with what we have talked about in class. Ellen White saw sanctification as a continual process, just as Dr. Hanna has quoted the words of a hymn, “I’m pressing on the upward way, new heights I’m gaining every day, still praying as I onward bound, ‘Lord, plant my feet on higher ground.’” As Christians, we need to remember that we have not “arrived” spiritually—we all need to continually grow in the knowledge and grace of God (2 Peter 3:18). Whidden has tried to show the balance of Ellen White’s views, and I think our class discussions have tried to find balance between justification and sanctification. One message that I have taken from our discussion so far is that we are not saved by keeping the law, rather we are saved by Jesus, and as a result of being saved and forgiven, we keep His law out of love for Him.
Respond to Michael taylor's reflection on 'Getting on at the ground level'(from Hyo Won) I'm thankful for this reflection that Michael wrote in deep thought. I had a experience when I served some church as a pastor. Oneday air conditioner in church was something wrong with control box, finally not working well, thought over whether or not I call to repairman, decided to switch off and on again, you know what, It worked well. Starting from the ground level is the most important thing when we deal with salvation. Hopefully in class each theme we are dealing would in detail step by step.
Pastor Paradise makes an excellent point about how Mrs. White’s writings should be used. Indeed, many people have misused her writings. Instead of taking her statements out of context and creating a fanatical doctrine, we must look at all of what she said about a certain topic, and then we can come to an accurate conclusion. I also agree that correct hermeneutics are crucial to faithfully interpreting the Biblical text. Unfortunately, throughout Christianity it seems that every denomination has different hermeneutics, and thus come to various conclusions. All the more reason to be diligent in letting the Bible interpret itself.
I appreciate Pastor Taylor’s emphasis of getting back to the basics of the Bible for the sake of visitors and members alike. In my first district before coming here, I preached a lot of sermons on the basics of loving one another to a divided church. I also appreciated his brief look at the first part of Romans 1, showing that Paul carefully crafted this message to the Romans—even in his introductory passages. We, as Pr. Taylor suggested, need to carefully craft messages/Bible studies to people of all levels: basic, intermediate, advanced.
Comment to Jared miller assign no #1. I just wanted to appreciate your contribution towards our ongoing discussion in our doctrine of salvation class. Particularly on the onward spiritual growth of Ellen white, the point that strike my mind was that even Ellen white’s full understanding of the some doctrinal issues was not just instant but a process ,this state was endorsed by Dr, Hanna that though he was seems to grow in the church, he had been wrestling with some issues during his humble beginning on his Christian journey. but with time he got a full understanding of what he was wrestling with.
In the book of Whidden II, Ellen White on salvation I have benefited from the statement of Mrs. Elle White when she says that “We have always taken the position that there was no power in the law to save a single transgressor of the law. Christ did not come to excuse sin, nor to justify a sinner while he continued to transgress that law. During our class discussion the same statement was echoed by our professor that “We do not obey the law of God in order to be saved, for we are already saved by being rooted in Christ who is the fulfillment of the law. We are justified only by the merits of Christ and such a faith will never excuse transgression. In the book of Romans 3:31 Paul says that “Now a righteousness from God apart from the law, has been made known, to which the law and prophets testify.” This righteousness of God is manifested on his gift of eternal life who is Jesus Christ the savior of the world. We rejoice that we have faith that takes hold of the promises of God that works by love and sanctifies the soul. I agree with Ellen G. White’s statement that justification means pardon and forgiveness. It is only through the sacrificial death of Christ as our substitute that there is hope for the human race. I do believe that the objective work of salvation and redemption that Christ has performed on behalf of the human race has made it possible for all of us to return to God and acknowledge Christ as our rightful owner who can deliver us from the bondage and power of Satan. Friends, the story of our salvation is inexhaustible. It exposes the mystery of evil and opens the mystery of the cross through which the divine love of God has conquered evil forever and ever
Hi brother Jared Miller, your reflection is good and well detailled. Your undrestanding about keeping the law and justification is good,clear and simple.
Was Jesus like the Adam before and after the fall?
This is a serious topic, or theological approach that everyone who believes in God needs to understand very well not for their salvation, but to have a strong understanding concerning the cosmic battle that exists between good and evil. We all know that God in the beginning creates everything perfect, except that death was not there yet. In other words, man was created to live not to die. Since after Adam’s sin we all are subject to death. We can say that since then every step man makes in life is going toward death. What kind of death are we going toward to as Christians? We give praise to the Lord for he bears our sins on his shoulder by being like Adam. I am quoting Paul in Romans 5: 2 saying, “Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned.” Now, the question we need to raise was Jesus like Adam before and after the fall? Although the book of Isaiah depicted Jesus as one without sin, He was definitely like Adam before the fall. Since Adam failed to follow God’s word because of his submission to the devil, Jesus has to come to overcome where Adam was not able to stand firm before the devil. Therefore, in order to defeat Satan not only on earth, but also definitely Jesus has to come and take the image or character of the Adam before the fall in order to prove to all human beings that God’s law is not impossible, arbitrary, and exaggerated. All it takes is a requirement of a total submission to his words. This is the reason that Jesus was tested in many ways by the devil, and even more than Adam did. In other words, God’s law can be observed if only if we stay attached with the Holy Spirit. Hence, the reason that Satan persisted so much to have Jesus failed like Adam is because he was looking for more elements of accusation against God before the universe. At the other hand, God has to show to the universe that he is a fair God. Indeed, the throne of God is rested upon two great foundations, justice and love. In order to demonstrate that, God sent Jesus to take the nature that Adam had before the fall. But, how about the one after the fall? How come Jesus can be like the Adam after the fall since he is God? I believe that this one of the greatest paradoxes that all human beings have to accept it as it is. But, let try to figure out how come Jesus can be considered as a sinner. The response is simple then. The only and ultimate way for Jesus to fulfill the word of the Father he has to become a sinner in taking the sins of all human beings who accept to do the will of the Father. There is one text that supports the reason that Jesus took that forms or image is Romans 6: 23, “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” In other for God to put an end in the great battle existed between good and evil Jesus has to take the sins of everyone who accepts to follow him, to die on the cross on Calvary, to bury sin on the ground, and to give new life to each of us.
Michael Taylor's reflection of going back to the basics in his understanding about God's righteousness and the law seems to be a subject that continues to generate intense interest and concern among Christians. There is need for more insight on what God has done for us that which the law could not do. Christ is the answer but not the law.
Brother White I am completely agreed with you concerning the way we take lightly the great gift of God about salvation. And you know what it is very sad to see even among of us there is a big contrast about that offer. If we can fully understand the concept of the gift of salvation that God offers to us we will become automatically better Christians, and fulfill his work with great power [Holy Spirit].
You got it well brother Ghenadie. We have to work definitely with these two extreme groups of people that misunderstand the salvation of God. The first group as you mentioned is the group of people who take it lightly in thinking that once accept Christ they do not have to do anything because they are saved. In the other hand, the second group, considered more legalistic, have made salvation so hard, difficult, and impossible for others to come to Christ, and to join the family of Christ.
I found it good to read Pastor Jared Miller's reflection. Specifically, on the issue whether E.G.White was "a legalist", I believe the much I have read her works, I havent seen legalism being reflected. Instead I see more and more of justification by faith in Christ's merits.
How and when one is saved seems to be the underlying questions in the class discussions. For a long time, the church has either individually or collectively wrestled with the noble idea of interpreting the doctrine of salvation or ended at coming up with various schools of thought. All along I think there has been an imbalance in explaining salvation because we seem to be elevating one element at the expense of several others that need as much attention. Partly, there has been lack of proper technical know-how in approaching the issue maybe because of spelled doctrinal structures or unwillingness to change our personal views. Whidden II in his book “Ellen White on salvation offers excellent wisdom that, “a delicate and an abiding balance”, are necessary when approaching the idea of salvation in relation to others. The BRI documents also shed more light on the theme by looking at salvation broadly. The discussions in class and the reading that I have already done leaves me with the impression that something might be amiss in the way we approach the issue of salvation in relation to our theological and doctrinal understanding as a “church”. The main problem does not seem to lie with the message, authors, and recipients of salvation but the approach that we give to it. The challenge that the church is likely to face is how to balance the interpretation of salvation, doctrines, and theology without going overboard in either way. Through Professor Hannah and fellow class mates I see some implicit approaches that can be useful from Paul’s writings. For us to be well equipped, we need to fully understand the true nature of man and the ultimate goal of salvation. RBI documents clearly depict the state of humanity, “so humanity is in a desperate condition. All our plans, hopes, and efforts are corrupted by our sinfulness. Individually and collectively we stand condemned for what we have done and for what we are, for the sprit of rebellion against God that is part of us, for all our all-encompassing alienation and sin( Rom.5:18 ; Steps to Christ pp.19-25)”. God, however, through his sovereignty that is beyond our comprehension took the initiative to grant humanity deliverance from this predicament in that “… while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” Rom. 5:8. This will have to definitely go beyond our doctrinal, theological periscopes. Lack of balanced understanding is likely to lead us overboard on either side. The best example where the wrong interpretation has ever existed is the relationship between the law and grace in relation to salvation. As soon as we talk of grace as God’s favor extended to save sinful humanity, the law comes in as the means of directions us to see ourselves truly in terms of how much we lack to obtain this grace. In order to get a proper understanding of Paul’s writings in relation to salvation, we ought to combine the literal and symbolic dimensions in our reading and interpretation of scriptures. Beyond combining grace and the law, there is need to put each in its proper perspective. Grace must be understood as the act of God. He in his own will implicitly offer it through the death of Christ on the cross (Rom 1:5). Man does not simply have any part in influencing or making it void whether he accepts or rejects its offer. If at all man has to be part to this grace then there must be a connection with God which of course will come through the impression of the Holy Ghost. Therefore man’s greatest duty is to accept the grace that is already freely offered. On the other hand, the law serves as a mirror revealing the state of humanity in relation to the holy standard of God. Keeping it for the purpose of securing perfection of character sincerely looses its meaning. However, when, kept within the right periscopes of spiritual guidance in understanding the will of God in our lives, puts it in its right position in regard to salvation. Paul implicitly reveals that grace (Christ) enables us to keep the law (Titus 2:11-13).
Brother Thomas Oyaro's reading reflects once more on the doctrine of justification by faith as depicted in the life of E.G. White. Indeed, Ellen White's writings emphasizes the way of salvation as being no other than relying on Christ's righteousness. This is the teaching is repeatedly seen in the book of Romans.
Reflection Paper #1 A Balanced Understanding of Scripture The matter of salvation is not lightly regarded by many Christian. For this reason different doctrines and ideologies cherished by Christians of various denominations continue to baffle, and console many. Paul in Phil, 2:12 charged a group of Christian during the apostolic era to ‘work out your own salvation with fear and trembling’. But what might be the implications of this text for the Christian who desperately seeks to be consoled of the assurance of salvation in Christ Jesus? Is it God who works completely in the salvation of man, or does man plays a pivotal role in his own salvation? In what context should one interpret this passage? The introductory lectures and discussions in the Doctrine of Salvation class proposes that, in order to better understand the meaning of any given text one must seek to understand both the literal, and the symbolic context in which the text was given. It is from this standpoint one can contemplate other scriptural points on the matter of salvation. It is a fact that there is salvation in no one else but God. Yet it is also true that salvation is a choice on man’s part. Ultimately, the key is to reconcile both thoughts in light of scripture.
In reviewing the thoughts of some who have written on the essence salvation it is important to note that they often seek to understand the origin and the culmination of the process of salvation. The article entitled “Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E.G. White”, written by A. M. Rodriquez gives an overview of what ushered in the need for salvation. Rodriquez began his expression by describing human plight on planet earth. Without been able to fully comprehend the mystery of sin he described its results as ‘separation from the Creator’, the Source of Life. Separation from life inevitably results in death, and salvation was now the antidote implemented to counteract death. But the process of salvation could only become a reality through the incarnation. The ‘Word of God became flesh’ and dwell (on earth) among men. Jn, 10:10 and Jn, 3:16 give the assurance: “I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly”. “For God so loved…that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.” This in essence is salvation (the gift of life). Yet there are indications that salvation is not a singular, utopian experience that happens when someone responds to the invitation to accept Jesus Christ. Neither is it process of performance where the works of individuals awards them trophies and contributes points toward ‘their’ eternal life. Many Christian in the past centuries seemed to have leaned to one of these extremes and have failed to understand that “salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given…by which we must be saved.” The writings of E.G. White continue to shed light on the essence of salvation. Whidden, in the book Ellen White on Salvation gives a chronological overview of what White had to say about the matter of salvation. In the first five chapters he outlined White’s personal experience in her attempt to understand the basis of salvation, and how through her experience and understanding she influenced, and guided those she associated with. As Whidden presents his study on the White’s perspective on the subject, there are indications that the process is more that the forgiveness of sin, and the escape of death. The implications are that the process involves different phases that made manifest over time: Justification, sanctification and ultimately a glorified moment are the elements that works together to complete the process of salvation. Yet it takes more than having an awareness of the different phases of salvation to grasp its value. Somewhere between the pages of the book of Romans, textbooks, articles, and in lectures and discussions on the subject, one can anticipate a new enlightenment that will impact not only minds but lifestyles, for now and eternity.
Paradise, you have made a valid point here. Too often sacred writings are interpret and applied conveniently. When this happens, the context from which the material is written is ignored and the true meaning is lost. It is necessary for one to understand the importance of looking at scripture, and other inspired writing literally and symbolically to discover their true or intended meanings. The irony of not doing this may be likened to the idea of an individual taking one of two required medications prescribed by a physician, ignoring the other for the simple reason of not liking the taste. The benefit of sacred writings is much deeper than convenience, or even comfort. As you indicate, the scripture, and writings of individuals like E.G. White must be evaluated and interpreted from a holistic point. When this is done, the matter of salvation will take on new meaning. It will be interesting to see some of the concepts that will unravel in the Doctrines of Salvation class over the next three weeks.
Michael, in regards to your reflection “Getting on at the Ground Level”, I believe what you have said, especially about presenting Christ on the intermediate level to other, is ‘food for thought’. This may well be part of many individuals’ struggle to understand the love of Christ in the process of salvation. Your proposal is reason to evaluate the way we present Christ. As His servants are we presenting the simple beauty of His love and character, or are we impersonating and promoting the pharisaical methods? This is one more reason to appreciate our Doctrine of Salvation class as it offers the appropriate lens for us to view matters of salvation.
Paul Muniz 1st Blog "A Justified Scofflaw"
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The thought that I a scofflaw, who once enforced the laws of the land and State, can be saved is something that for many Christians and non-Christians is incomprehensible. As a matter of fact the prevailing thought among many is that individuals that are in positions of leadership, such as ministers, law enforcement and the like, must be keepers of the law. If one of them were to violate a law then their credibility, as well as their salvation, would be questioned. Within church circles many may go the extent of judging and condemning the lawbreaker, often no different then those outside the church. I am all too familiar with this prevailing thought. As a PK (preachers kid) I grew up believing that every law had to be obeyed. If I breached a law I was considered subversive, leaving me with an atrocious feeling of inadequacy, and a sense that I was lost and unloved by God. Since this was the away of life I grew up holding to this belief. I candidly confess that often I too believed that transgressors of the law were condemned sinners. This mindset was further broadened by my many years of policing. Like the Apostle Paul who sought out the followers of Christ, I too sought out those who were transgressors of the law. It was only when I began to study scripture that I became aware of my fallacy. In fact scripture warns us that we are to “know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have to put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified (Gal. 2:16)”. The Apostle Paul goes further in his attempt to correct the misaligned thought of the day. He further writes, “Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard? Consider Abraham: “He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. “Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham. All nations will be blessed through you.” So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith (Gal. 3:4-9)”. By no means am I implying, suggesting or condoning a lifestyle of non-adherence to Godly or manmade laws. In fact the Apostle raises this in a form of a question that says, “Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law (Rom. 3:31)”. The idea of keeping the law and therefore being justified implies that one can get into heaven by works, but the matter of salvation is not one that can be acquired through good deeds. E. G. White expressed that belief and trust are wrapped in faith. And that “It is not enough to believe about Christ; we must believe in Him” (Gospel Workers p.261). In Him and through Him only can one be justified. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life (John 3:16)”. We must believe “in him” and therefore can be counted justified. The Apostle Paul adds to this thought by saying “Through him and his name’s sake, we receive grace and apostleship to call people from among the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith (Rom. 1:5)”. One of my favorite songs, which I have often sung as a special, is “A Sinner Saved by Grace”, by Bill Gaither. It has been said that the concept of a “sinner saved by grace” leads to a way of sinfulness. I dispute such on the grounds that one’s faith includes obedience, as is stated by Paul in his opening remarks to the Romans. This obedience is to the Person of Jesus Christ. It is faith, belief, and trust that leads me to sing the words “I’m just a sinner saved by grace, when I stood condemned to death, He took my place. Now I live and breathe in freedom with each breath of life I take, I’m loved and forgiven”. Hence, I am “A Justified Scofflaw”!
Reflection # 1: Are the basics really that basic? As I sit in Dr. Hanna’s class, I can’t stop asking myself, why is he touching these elemental issues of salvation? Aren’t we supposed to know all these things already? Then it dawned on me, that perhaps this is exactly why we need this discussion. Could it be that we have become so used to handling terms like justification, sanctification, literal reading of scripture, etc., that we have become in a way desensitized? I see Jesus having to deal with the same issues when he dealt with the Pharisees, they understood salvation and sanctification intellectually, yet their hearts where far from God. Jesus had to come to show them the Father, to remind them of the “basics” of salvation (see Jesus’ encounter with the rich man in Matthew 20:16-30), and to point them back to the basics of salvation. I believe we need to re-visit these concepts with a new and fresh approach, I believe that as a result we can become more effective in our ministries, develop a closer relationship with Christ, and have a renewed understanding. I believe that studying the mechanics, or dynamics of salvation is useful only if translates to a transformation of the heart, starting with us. Then, we will be able to communicate not only theory, but the experience of salvation. I am convinced that simply knowing how to “throw” theological terms around is not enough. Men and women in the Bible were able to witness only after they had an encounter with Christ. Are we having a daily encounter with Christ? can we talk about what he is doing in our lives? This is a great challenge if we want to be effective messengers of God’s word, because knowing the “message” in my opinion is not enough, we need to know the Messenger, through a daily relationship with him. I must confess that I am far from being an example, yet I see God’s high standard and I know that without his intervention in my life, I will not make it. As I read about how Ellen White developed her teachings on salvation, I see how her early struggle with assurance of salvation and achieving perfection as a goal for eternal life, was replaced by the assurance of a balanced life which I believe was the product of a deep and mature relationship with God. She was able to share the “pitying Savior” to those who were repentant of their sins, but she also emphasized that true love is obedient (see John 14:15). Jesus loves us so much that he will never reject anyone who comes to him, no sin is too great that Christ can’t forgive, He is willing and able to save us and to guide us as we walk on the path of righteousness. I appreciate Dr. Hanna’s lectures because I can see that just handling the right terms do not constitute any merit. A well polished sermon has its merit, but a transformed life can have a greater impact. God longs to create a clean heart and a steadfast spirit (Ps. 51:10) in us on a daily basis, so that we can become even better witnesses to the world of what His power and love can do in our lives. So I need to think again when I believe that these concepts are too basic, because even Christ had to come and show us what to live a sanctified life really means.
Response to Ghenadie Girleanu’s Comment: I totally agree with your comments, both groups of people with extreme ideas about salvation need our attention. We need to not only educate on the issue but better yet, demonstrate what a follower of Christ looks like with our actions, words, and Christ-like attitude. Then our teachings and sermons will be powerful.
Response to Jonathan Martin’s Comment: I totally agree with his idea that as Adventists we need to have this discussion since we tend to emphasize the law over grace. I also agree that most of the misunderstanding is related to a superficial reading of scripture, which leads to a superficial living of scripture. God’s message is balanced and wholistic, this should also be the way we approach our teaching and preaching.
What is the difference between temptation and sinning, and when does temptation become a sin? This was one of several connecting topics brought up in class and within our reading. There are two problem scenarios when it comes to this discussion. The first is when people are tempted, interpret that temptation as a sin, and feel a burdensome guilt because of it. The second is when people are tempted, assume they have already sinned because they have thought of that temptation, become apathetic towards the temptation and figure they should go ahead and act upon it since they are thinking about a sin. Both of these scenarios root from the same problem, which is basing salvation on works rather than basing salvation on the cross.
I see temptation as an indicator, which can be used in both positive and negative ways. We are tempted because of the sinful nature we inherited from Adam. (Romans 5) The desire for sin runs deep within us, and each person has his/her imperfections. The guilt that is felt when a temptation comes can be a heavy burden to bear if it is not given to Jesus. But just as a shock of pain from an injury might indicate something is physically wrong in us, a “shock of temptation” might indicate where we are spiritually weak. Temptation points us to the law, which points us to the need for grace, which carries us to the cross.
It is in this cycle that I would approach both persons. To the one who feels guilty because of temptation I would share what I read in Romans 5 and 6. The Law has shown us what sin is. However, it is not what justifies us. Through Adam we inherited a sinful nature, and because of that we will be tempted until sin is done away with. The good news is that we also have the option of inherited eternal life through Jesus Christ. Since we have been justified through faith in Jesus, we have reason to rejoice in temptation rather than feel guilty. We can praise God that he has transforming power in our lives and can help us make the choice not to sin after being tempted.
To the one who feels apathetic in temptation I would
Trung Hoang Assignment 1 Salvation by Faith by Jan Paulsen The book of Romans is the doctrinal constitution of Christianity. If anyone truly and humbly wants to study this book he or she would build a solid foundation of being a Christian. Not only it helps to witness more effectively, but it gives the true freedom and liberty from being in bondage. After reading “Ellen White on Salvation” by Whidden I, “Salvation by Faith” by Jan Paulsen, and the teaching of Dr. Hanna and the discussions in the class I start to have a better grasp of how to explain salvation by faith better, both its objective and subjective dimensions. We cannot separate the terms justification and sanctification when we study the subject of salvation. The justification is said to come first and it is only by faith and faith alone. When Paul wrote “the righteous will live by faith,” in Rom 1:17 he may have thought of Hab 2:4, “the righteous will live by his faith.” Jan Paulsen points out that the Old Testament noun that comes closest to faith in meaning (emunah) actually means “faithfulness.” It’s about someone who can be trusted or relied on. And because God is trustworthy, I can put my trust in him. Faith can be looked at objectively and subjectively. Objectively, one can study about God’s faithfulness, know what Christ has done for humanity, and believe that Christ died on the cross for all sinners, but that’s only theologically. James clearly stated that even the devil believes in God and not obeying him. So there’s the subjective aspect of faith. If Christ is the only mean of salvation, then no work is good enough to save any soul. And if we live “by faith alone,” we place ourselves in Christ’s righteousness , the practical godliness and victory over sin are clearly biblical. It’s not the sinner’s faith in God that he’s saved, but it’s the faith of God. God is faith and without his faith in saving humanity, nothing can accomplish such task. Therefore, keeping the law is an act of obedience to faith rather than the score on faith. For nothing good or moral a sinner can do to be just before God. The fact that the word “sinner” suggests that he or she is uncapable of doing anything good on his or her will. So, because of God’s faith in Christ’s righteousness, He judges the sinner as if he or she has never sinned before. This gospel should be preached and spreaded in our churches, especially to non-religious and young people who long for true assurance and hope for new future.
I like how you said that we need a balanced understanding of salvation to avoid either side of extremes (all grace or all works). However, I find that sometimes when I think? that I'm living right I tend to swing toward the law. But when I'm guilty of sin when run toward grace. It's so easy to become a hypocrit without realizing ourselves.
To piasi suleiman I find your comments on Ellen White who "was also struggling with how she will get the inner peace and her assurance for salvation" as well as that, "The only picture we used to have concerning her is that she was perfect" to be on point. As I have come learn about E. G. White is that she too was growing in her Christian walk. And as she grew, and changed, so did her theological perceptions. I have come to admire her for continuously pointing people back to God's word, where one was able to find the truth, inner peace and reassurance on salvation.
To Edgar Alquinta, I find your comment to be profound, and true. I too am convinced that simply knowing theological terms and then throwing such around is insufficient. In many cases these theological terms we use are not found in the Bible. Yes, we too, as the men and women of biblical days, must have an encounter with Christ.
As humans, I believe we have a tendency to make things into mathematical equations such as 1 + 1 = 2. We love ideas that are as neat and clean cut as this mathematical equation. I believe this is perhaps where we fall into a trap of over-simplifying or over-complicating an idea. We are often frustrated because the idea of salvation is not as clean cut as we would like it to be. The doctrine of salvation is to be discussed throughout the ages to come even beyond our lifetime on earth, and I think we need to accept the fact that it is something that we may never fully understand. I appreciate the balance that the class emphasizes on the doctrine of salvation. The lectures have helped me to gain a better understanding of scripture, and to look at scripture literally rather than literalistically or legalistically. Although Dr. Hanna listed the progression from faith through love to hope, but I appreciated the fact that he did not try to oversimplify or overcomplicate the process by making it into a mathematical equation. I have also appreciated Whidden’s attempt to look at Ellen White’s writings holistically. I believe learning to read Ellen White’s writings more holistically will solve a lot of problems that we find in Seventh-day Adventist church, because a lot of the problems sprouted from taking Ellen White’s writings out of context. We missed the purpose of the inspired writings of Ellen White’s writings by making the mistake of things out of context, because the original purpose of her writings was to illuminate a light on the scripture so that we would have a better understanding of God’s word. By examining her writings, we will perhaps be able to get to the issues that originated the problems, and in turn, we will be able to untangle some of these problems that exist in our church. However, there is a challenge that is involved with this task, because of sheer amount of material that has been written by Ellen White. Whidden tackles the issue by looking at the central themes that have appeared throughout her life time, and eliminating certain texts that is repeated. The mixture of reading through the book of Romans in combination with Whidden’s book on “Ellen White on Salvation” and articles from the Biblical Research Institute is very interesting, and it is helping me to have a better grasp of the doctrine of salvation. I realize the crucial importance of correctly understanding the doctrine of salvation, because as the leaders of this church, we may make the mistake of taking people down a wrong path that is nowhere near salvation. As Dr. Hanna often tells us in class, may the Holy Spirit give us the wisdom to understand!
I too feel the same way somehow when it comes to realizing the importance of going back to the very basics of understanding the principles of justification. Dr Hanna's class is really helping a lot. I do agree with you that way too often we take this issue for granted, and it reflects in the way how we teach the bible to people who are interested. We skip this part of the process and importance of salvation, assuming that people are aware of it, kinda trying to jump to the "really important" stuff, which we assume to be the keeping of "rules" and "regulations" and the "do's" and "don'ts" of christian life. We should preach and teach Jesus and the cross more! and how profound that is.
I know that we should emphasize more and more grace, but I have realized that in some circumstances and to certain people talking about grace and salvation has become a new way of legalism - one with a christ-centered facade. Therefore, I agree with you in being more centered. Interesting toilet paper metaphor, huh?! :-)
Assignment # 1 One aspect of the class lecture which aroused my curiosity was the manner that symbol and literal as concepts relate to biblical interpretation, and its composite and positive correlation, and interdependence. Even more interesting is the idea that these concepts function in rather complimentary terms rather than in an opposing and contradictory manner. Theirs is a relationship of reciprocity, meaning that the involvedness of one of these ideas attached to a particular biblical text does not diminish the veracity of the other. While the workings of these concepts may appear to stable and harmonious, it also has the potential to produce as many questions and doubts, which could have vast theological implications. If it is true that in order for something to have a symbolic function, it must also have a literal equivalent or representation, then is it possible that a misinterpretation of either of these ideas, or distortion of both may produce irrefutable theological conclusions based on private, collective, or organizational understanding? A related response may determine that one’s private or collective understanding does not necessarily reduce the function or the certitude of these concepts for the reason that these ideas are objective. In seeking to ascertain the finer workings of symbol and literal as constructs of biblical interpretation, I believe it is necessary for one to consent to refraining from premature conjecturing, and employ higher order thinking informed by faith. The introductory remarks in the article by Kane highlights the importance of employing proper hermeneutical principles which lends itself to a more complete understanding of Scripture. Beyond the historical, linguistic, and grammatical components of hermeneutics is the deliberate commitment to the subject matter. This commitment seeks to examine previous research and findings related to the subject. It also necessitates the setting aside of presuppositions while handling the inferences made by others in a manner which suggest critical thinking. From the reading of Romans one through three it is clear that Paul is intent on directing the readers’ attention to the need for salvation through the message of the Gospel. Beyond this underlining point, Paul also addresses the issue of God impartiality towards humanity. In fact, one could argue that Paul is suggesting that God extends his hands beyond the folly of humans in order to give to each person a chance of experiencing life at its best—a life which resides in the person and works of Jesus.
Assignment #1 Delvin Frazer Reflection Paper The reading materials were inspiring in relation to how God planned out our salvation through his son Jesus Christ, so he could save his people from their sins. It appears from the issue of salvation many are asking if Christ death on the cross within itself ultimately saved the world. I would argue that Christ death on the cross indeed saved the world and his people from the hands of Satan. We must understand that the cross of itself does not possess power to redeem and restore mankind into a divine relationship with God. Throughout history protestant theology teaches that the cross possess all power to saved the world from its sinful conditions, and by holding and wearing the cross people live can be restore through the object. However, it has theological distortion as biblical implication on the teaching of salvation in scriptures, which cause heated theological debate on “the saved world by Christ death”. The bible teaches that all have sinned by the disobedience of one man caused eternal death on the world, yet through one man obedience to death on the cross all have been redeem and given eternal live to those you believed. The meaning of this is that Christ death opened divine connection between God and man in Christ, but it also speaks of the natural, general, and supreme revelation connective he brought to communicate is divine authority to man in all three revelations. He saved the world by his death on the cross, but for mankind to receive eternal salvation, one has to exercise faith and obedience in the root of salvation. The world now has the ultimate opportunity to embrace God’s saving grace because of Christ symbolic and literal victory at the cross over the evil one. According to Manuel Rodriguez, he agreed that the alienation of humans from God, which was the result of the fall, came to an end through Christ. He became a living bridge between God and humans because he was both, human and divine. This was Christ’s objective act of salvation. He made it possible for humans beings to be united with God; he connected earth with heaven. But only repentant sinners can benefit from that salvation.” I agreed with is statement however before his death the entire world was doomed for destruction, but Christ has saved the world before the cross event became symbolic and literal reality as a witness. The world is saved in his death which means that everyone now as the opportunity to surrender his/her life in God’s presence. I am still thinking with this statement “ Saved world”
Assignment # 1 3Ds of Assurance (Hope, Faith, Love)
How do they three dimensions of assurance relate to salvation? What are they three dimensions of assurance? I always have issue in regard to assurance in Christ for salvation. We talked about the three dimensions of assurance in the class this week. The three dimensions of assurance are also the three elements of salvation. The three dimensions of assurance are: Hope, Faith and Love. Mrs. White said “Were we to ground our hope upon joyful emotions, there are many of God's true people who would be without assurance. Jesus cares for the weak and feeble in their simplicity, and would quicken their life by his own heart beats.” The word of God is loaded in precious thing that will not be corrupted ever. “We are saved by hope in Christ Jesus: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man sees, why does he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it” the assurance of love is the the love existing between believers is to be similar to the love existing between the Father and the Son. And this love in the soul is the evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ, are the conditions of salvation. In James' day there were men arising who were doing just as many are doing in our day,--preaching that faith in Christ releases men from obedience to the law of God. James declares that "faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness; and he was called the friend of God." It is by the constant exercise of faith and love that believers are made to shine as lights in the world. Salvation is something that every human being stands in need of even more than basic needs. One of the authors made it clear that since the time of Adams fall, man has been standing in need of salvation and deliverance from sin. Christ came to fulfill the promise of God to Adam and Eve about the plan of salvation. Our fore parent had love, faith and hope in God to save them from sin. These three dimensions hope, love and faith must be a part of our life.
Response to Trung Hoang Assignment # 1 Salvation by Faith by Jan Paulsen
I really like the way you feel in regard to salvation. Some time feel the same way too. As you mentioned that “The fact that the word “sinner” suggests that he or she is uncapable of doing anything good on his or her will. So, because of God’s faith in Christ’s righteousness, He judges the sinner as if he or she has never sinned before. To me there is no better way to conclude this paper by ending with an appeal. “This gospel should be preached and spreaded in our churches, especially to non-religious and young people who long for true assurance and hope for new future.”
Assignment # 2 Are we saved by the Gospel preach only by Human being? Romans 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "But the righteous man shall live by faith." Romans 15:13 Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. I understand the Gospel is the power of God for salvation through faith, but what about those who did not have the opportunity to hear the gospel? Will they be saved in the kingdom of God? On what God will base You don’t have to be perfect to be counted righteous. God can reveal himself to any one whom He chooses too. God does not need a person to preach the gospel to someone another to be saved. Abraham did not have a human being preached the gospel to him another to have faith in the Mighty God of heaven. Salvation is the work of the heavenly architecture. God knows His people, He can and will communication to the whole human race the plan of salvation. “God has a purpose for each one.”God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love wherewith He loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ (by grace ye are saved;) and hath raised us up together, and made us to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus; that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." These words show us what we may become by striving to fulfill God's purpose. {ST, May 14, 1902 par. 4}” "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." I begin to understand that there is a need for me to change the way I think about salvation by grace. There is nothing we can do that will help us to make to the kingdom of heaven but what we do can prevent us make it to the kingdom of God. Every good thing we do is the work of the Holy Spirit in us though our obedience in Christ Jesus. We are justified by faith like Abraham was justified by faith.
Reflection #2 Recently I spoke with an individual who wanted to know if I believed that a person could reach sinless perfection. When I told him I did not think so, he became a bit apprehensive and started quoting a bunch of scripture passages at me. He was annoyed at the fact that people could not see that the scriptures, in his opinion, plainly teach sinless perfection for the follower of Jesus Christ. What was even more interesting, for me at least, was the fact that this individual was not an Adventist. Normally I would expect to hear this type of theology from someone within my denomination. I never thought I would have this type of conversation with someone outside of the Adventist faith.
Something I like about individuals who promote the idea of sinless perfection is their emphasis on living sanctified, holy lives. The reality is that we don’t hear a lot about overcoming sin, even within the Adventist church. It’s as if we don’t want to cross any boundaries or step on people’s toes. The more we stay out of people’s personal lives, the better. The problem, however, is that the scriptures do in fact hold us to the highest standard. And if we claim to preach a Biblical faith, we have to preach against sin.
The problem I have with this type of theology, however, is that it downplays not only the extent, but also the depth to which we, as individuals, are contaminated by sin. Sin is not an external monster we have to domesticate, but an internal disease that eats up every cell in our bodies. Sin is so much a part of our being that it has numbed our senses to the point that we can sin without even knowing it. This is why Edward Heppenstall comments in his BRI article: “If one's view of sin is shallow enough, sinless perfection would not be an impossible achievement.” But since sin is not shallow, sinless perfection needs to be reconsidered.
I am not advocating, however, Calvin’s total depravity. Even completely secular individuals have a sense of morality. Most won’t argue that cheating on a test or murdering an individual are moral acts. The image of God may have been marred, but there is still a small glimmer of light that seeps through the darkness. And if we act upon that small glimmer of light, and seek Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, we can begin to sensitize ourselves to the sin within us.
A key text is Philippians 3:12-14. In this passage Paul makes the statement that he has not obtained perfection. This is Paul, the Apostle, and the one who had a personal encounter with Jesus Christ Himself. This Paul never claimed a sinless perfection. Instead, he says, “one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.” Paul makes it very clear that he hasn’t reached perfection. But that doesn’t mean he stops moving forward. He may fall, he may stumble, but he keeps moving ahead. From victory to victory he gets closer to his goal.
This should be the attitude of all Christians. We recognize that we are sinful to the core, and at the same time realize that we are called to overcome in Christ. When God reveals a sin we need to overcome, we do so willingly in response to our love for Jesus. And when we overcome that sin, God reveals another sin we need to overcome, and we willingly overcome that sin. But because of the profundity of sin within our beings, it is a never-ending process. That is not a problem, however, for the mature Christian. The mature Christian knows that the righteousness of Jesus more than makes up for where he lacks.
I sincerely agree that our reading and misuse of Ellen White writings affects our understanding of this such important topic of salvation. I also believe that our lack of knowledge of what she fully represent as a prophetess to the SDA movement leads us to a poor recognition of her methods to explain the salvation topic.
It was interesting the reading from the first three chapters of the book “Ellen White on Salvation”. Her struggles to understand the process of sanctification, going through her early years as a child to even her late years as a prophetess, gave me a fresh appreciation and broader perspective of her call as God’s messenger. Fortunately, the Adventist movement has a prophetess that had no fear to admit faults and human frailty. As we skim over the superficies of the doctrine of salvation topic, is refreshing to know that God has used frail human vessels as instruments of encouragement to His church. Mrs. Ellen White was no more than a child when she began to realize her sinful condition and her necessity of a savior. According to the author, she “found it hard to obtain an assurance of acceptance, feeling that she "could never become worthy to be called a child of God".
To be found in Christ was for young Ellen a desire that daily consumed her thoughts, leading her even to moments of depression and anxiety. So many of us interact with similar feelings. A reality of a greater need of God and the understanding of His love and acceptance even for some pastors is as cruel and abstract as was to young Ellen. It wasn’t until she completed fourteen years of age that she had her first “encounter” with God. Not that she wasn’t a believer, far from it, but the encounter was an open eye experience on the topic of salvation and sanctification. Seems that Mrs. White began to understand salvation as a free gift from God combined with human response to obey His will. Mrs. White response to all of the questions about salvation and sanctification was a result of her background as a Methodist. Her desire to be finally “holy” was a reflection of a such called “Second Blessing” doctrine taught by the followers of John Wesley at the Methodist movement. Later in her ministry she recognizes that such approach wasn’t the best and more sound doctrine to be followed.
As she developed as a Christian, understanding and receiving more light and as she walked daily with Christ, Mrs. White came to terms with the salvation by faith doctrine, which later was seeing in the Minneapolis meeting, as a turning point in the Seventh Day-Adventist movement. It wasn’t any easy for Mrs. White and her husband to introduce a more faith based salvation doctrine to the so called leaders of the movement. They also had being exposed to Methodist teachings, and even more now after they understandings of God’s Holly law, their dependence on self was indeed a stumbling-block to a more Christ centered eschatological thinking. Some, according to the author, had the audacity to claim that by their own efforts on keeping God’s Holy law, they had become holy themselves, and preaching such heresy started to divide the church. Others, observing a more “cheap grace” doctrine, believed that salvation was just a matter of accepting the sacrifice of Jesus, with no need to observe bible commandments. Mrs. Ellen White gracefully dealt with both groups. Because of her continue understanding of God’s plan, and also of her frailty condition, she stop trusting on self to attempt holiness or salvation, by lay all her cared upon Jesus. For Ellen White: “Perfection was not to be claimed as some sinless accomplishment, but rather
It was interesting the reading from the first three chapters of the book “Ellen White on Salvation”. Her struggles to understand the process of sanctification, going through her early years as a child to even her late years as a prophetess, gave me a fresh appreciation and broader perspective of her call as God’s messenger. Fortunately, the Adventist movement has a prophetess that had no fear to admit faults and human frailty. As we skim over the superficies of the doctrine of salvation topic, is refreshing to know that God has used frail human vessels as instruments of encouragement to His church. Mrs. Ellen White was no more than a child when she began to realize her sinful condition and her necessity of a savior. According to the author, she “found it hard to obtain an assurance of acceptance, feeling that she "could never become worthy to be called a child of God".
To be found in Christ was for young Ellen a desire that daily consumed her thoughts, leading her even to moments of depression and anxiety. So many of us interact with similar feelings. A reality of a greater need of God and the understanding of His love and acceptance even for some pastors is as cruel and abstract as was to young Ellen. It wasn’t until she completed fourteen years of age that she had her first “encounter” with God. Not that she wasn’t a believer, far from it, but the encounter was an open eye experience on the topic of salvation and sanctification. Seems that Mrs. White began to understand salvation as a free gift from God combined with human response to obey His will. Mrs. White response to all of the questions about salvation and sanctification was a result of her background as a Methodist. Her desire to be finally “holy” was a reflection of a such called “Second Blessing” doctrine taught by the followers of John Wesley at the Methodist movement. Later in her ministry she recognizes that such approach wasn’t the best and more sound doctrine to be followed.
As she developed as a Christian, understanding and receiving more light and as she walked daily with Christ, Mrs. White came to terms with the salvation by faith doctrine, which later was seeing in the Minneapolis meeting, as a turning point in the Seventh Day-Adventist movement. It wasn’t any easy for Mrs. White and her husband to introduce a more faith based salvation doctrine to the so called leaders of the movement. They also had being exposed to Methodist teachings, and even more now after they understandings of God’s Holly law, their dependence on self was indeed a stumbling-block to a more Christ centered eschatological thinking. Some, according to the author, had the audacity to claim that by their own efforts on keeping God’s Holy law, they had become holy themselves, and preaching such heresy started to divide the church. Others, observing a more “cheap grace” doctrine, believed that salvation was just a matter of accepting the sacrifice of Jesus, with no need to observe bible commandments. Mrs. Ellen White gracefully dealt with both groups. Because of her continue understanding of God’s plan, and also of her frailty condition, she stop trusting on self to attempt holiness or salvation, by lay all her cared upon Jesus. For Ellen White: “Perfection was not to be claimed as some sinless accomplishment, but rather
Cesar Grassiotto, Second Article. The Consequences of Adam's fall.
As we gasp the reality of human condition and how far bellow we are from the Edenic atmosphere, we wonder: how could one be saved? Even now as we dive into the topics of salvation and realize how great mechanism had to be putted together in other for God’s sons to be accepted back into the kingdom, one could just be amazed. The reading of the article “ Adam and Human Race in he Writings of White E. G.” by Angel Manuel Rodriguez, lead us to a impressive reality check on our fallen human condition, and allows us to even more contemplate the sacrifice of Jesus as an amazing, amazing grace. Reading the mentioned article came to my mind the sayings of Paul, when writing to the church in Ephesus sad: “As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.”. Manuel Rodrigues research on Ellen White comments on the topic of Adam’s fall and the condition of human race after fall. He made plain and clear that our situation was a final and decisive one, leading all the human race to death and eternal death. No communication between heaven and earth was permitted, like Mrs. White mentioned: “A mysteriously evil happened to the human nature itself that resulted in its enslavement under the power of sin”. The corruption was so intense and so irreversible, that no human works or human efforts could bring an atonement that would be accepted by the holy God and again reestablished the lost and so cherished peace into the recent created planet. Not just the Adam and Eve were deprived by the sin condition, but also to the entire future generation that would descend from them. Adam was the head of God’s earthly creation, responsible and keeper of the garden of Eden. The fall brought not just death, but also the major penalty of losing the control of what once was Adam kingdom, to the prince of darkness. Another Adam than had to come to retake, reestablish, and rule over the earth once again. The coming of Jesus was God’s engineer method to bring a solution to a cosmic conflict. Not just a planet had been lost, but much more, God’s law was depict as abusive and harmful. The Divine took the human condition. The ultimate king, became the ultimate servant. The law giver came to teach and apply the holy principles. What Paul than wrote to the Ephesians, finally made sense; those who once lived as immoral’s, adulterous, murderous and all the sinful list implied on the text, now could cast their faults upon the one who came to bear the sin of all human race. The following quote from Mrs. White, expands what I am trying to present: "Because man fallen could not overcome Satan with his human strength, Christ came from the royal courts of heaven to help him with His human and divine strength combined. . . . He obtains for the fallen sons and daughters of Adam that strength which it is impossible for them to gain for themselves, that in His name they may overcome the temptations of Satan."[52]
Jonathan Martin I agree with Jonathan Martin that for us to understand salvation, we ought to marry grace and the law. Grace will realistically thrive well within laws for no enterprise whether it be worldly,bussiness, or religious can succeed without laws. The only difference is that in keeping God's law, Christ enables us to do it not as a legalistic means of obtaining salvation, but a means of keeping our love relationship with him and fellow men going on.
Paradise Comment: I agree with Paradise's comment that proper interpretation of the scriptures is necessary in understanding a given text. For us to have a holistic understanding of salvation, the Ellen White writings and our doctrines should be built from "thus said the Lord"
Paradise I agree with Paradise that proper interpretation of Scripture is the truest way of understanding a given text. For us to have a balanced view of salvation,Ellen White writings and all doctrines ought be based on "Thus saith the Lord" with an open spirit of willingness to learn and change.
Can you imagine a world without rules? As a was driving to class today, late and over speeding, I realized that I was braking a rule. In my mind, I had a good excuse for it: getting on time for class. But, even the best of my excuses could’t makeup for my obvious mistake. Even my “great” excuses could’t sanitize my behavior. For a moment I was frustrate with all the traffic system, and wished for a “cosmic” power that would allow me to remove all of them, in order to make things “easy” for me. Suddenly the law that was there for my own protection and safety, became an instrument of damnation. I was angry with the law. I was trying to find my way out by creating excuses of how to keep on my absurd mistake and not be punished by an punitive police officer. FInally, arrived safe and on time, and better, without a ticket! An interesting feeling than came to me as I was parking my car: “See, you found your way out of this one, congratulations! Maybe tomorrow I could do it again!. That’s my problem. I tend to find ways to break the law and not face the consequences. Unfortunately, my perspective regarding consequences is very narrow. Just because I did not get caught by a police officer and did not received a ticket, I than led myself to believe that what I did wasn’t that bad, perhaps not even wrong. That’s a humans nature summary. That’s exactly what Christ came to change in me.I have heard a story about this church member that like me had problems with traffic regulations. One day, as he was speeding on his way home, he got stop by a police officer. As the police officer was approaching the vehicle, the driver noticed that the policeman was a member of the same church that he also attend it. He felt that he could talk the his way out of a “coming” ticket thinking: clearly the police officer as a church member and fellow Christian would understand my situation. As he started excusing himself for his speeding, the police officer quietly walked away and started to write on a peace a paper. The driver could’t believe that his friend, a church fellow “buddy” would do such a thing against him. Finally, the police officer came back and gave him a note, with a ticket. The note had the following words: “ My friend, five years ago I lost my daughter. She was killed by a driver, who was speeding on his way home. I would really appreciate if for now on, you start to respect the traffic laws”. As we comprehend Christ’s sacrifice, than, His law also receives new meaning. My sinful nature still very predominant, but, control and subjugated to the love of Christ that constrain me. His law appears to be no more as a heavy burden, but, as a clear representation of what my sinful acts caused Him to suffer. Such realization is pointed by the authors of the “ The Dynamic of Salvation” article as being like a “path of obedience leads us into ever-increasing understanding of God's will for us (Prov. 4:18). From its magnification in the life and teachings of Jesus, we see that it is far more than a set of rules that call for external compliance. We see that it searches even our thoughts and motives, and the desires and intents of the heart. Further, obedience is not merely the absence of transgression; it is a life of positive goodness”. The sacrifice of Jesus leads me to obedience, softened my heart, and prepares me to represent His character.
Response to Trung Hoang Assignment 1 Your contribution has added flavor to the discussion and is recognized. I am interested in the manner by which you arrived at your conclusion which supposes that "If anyone truly and humbly wants to study this book he or she would build a solid foundation of being a Christian." Here is my observation to your suggestion. Is it possible for a person to 'truly' become immerse in the writings of Paul without acknowledging or subscribing to a particular brand of Christianity?
Response to Juma’s Reflection 1 In your treatment of the issue to salvation you suggest that the problem does not rest with the message, authors, etc, but in one's approach. Would you consider that even if an individual had the correct approach, his or her perception of salvation might create an added dimension of interpretation which would result in more 'issues'?
Scientific, logical American upbringing has really tainted my view of religion. Not just mine, really, but no doubt many others. We feel the urge to explain EVERYTHING. Everything has to have a well-ordered, logical explanation, no matter how vague the details are about it. We’re told that Jonah was swallowed by a great fish, and now some people are actually studying and dissecting whales to judge if their stomach is big enough to hold a man for three days. This desire for an explanation appears more so when we attempt to tackle the mystery of the trans-cosmic Christ.
Both in class and in my reading of Whidden’s book, there have been a few sections that have stood out for their controversial mystery. You could take any of the following topics and completely divide a typical Sabbath School class in less than five minutes: Original Sin & our “bent” towards sin, models of atonement (moral influence, substitutionary, etc.), Christ’s divinity (Arianism or Trinitarian), and especially Christ’s human nature. “Raise your hands if you think that Jesus was like Adam before the fall…”
This week has really opened my eyes to a whole new understanding of the complexity of Christ. It’s been said that if you could understand God, He’d cease to be God. At the same time, new light has been revealed to me about just what Jesus did to come here and die for me. While still God, He put on this same disgusting garb of flesh and bones that I wear today. He stepped off of His throne and became like me. He was tempted to trust in His own might, battled the Enemy over matters of hunger and thirst, and felt pain greater than I could ever imagine when He was nailed to the cross. He did this for me.
In the same way, my reading in Romans as it relates to class has also been helpful. I am like Peter in many ways, in this case because I don’t understand half of what Paul’s talking about. (I’d use a Bible with CLEARer WORDing, but I don’t want to get into THAT divisive topic right now, haha.) What I do gather from Romans 3-8 is that just as Abraham was justified by God and called friend even before he was circumcised, God still loved me enough to reach out to me in order to gain my friendship while I still lacked a public expression of faith in Him (4:9-11). God’s grace came centuries before I was born, and He even continued to show me grace while I was yet a sinner (5:8). My faith, my works, and my character are all a reflection of what God did and does, not the reason why God did.
Angel Rodriguez’s article on Romans 3:21-24 did open my eyes further to the understanding of Paul’s commentary on justification. All have sinned, yes, every single person. We’ve all done something stupid; Hindus, Muslims, Witch doctors, and even fifth-generation-vegan-Adventists. There’s no need to pull “Original Sin” into this phrase – we don’t need to look back 4,000-6,000 years (depending on the audience) for a sin when we can look back 4-6 hours ago and find one readily. At the same time, Christ has saved us all the same way. Both that Hindu and that Adventist are saved by Christ’s death on the Cross and accepting that grace by faith. There are other points of doctrine that might arise where we may feel a different leading by the Spirit, but Christ’s death on the cross is universal and clear.
There are still many mysteries in the cosmos (and even outside-of-the-cosmos; thank you Dr. Hanna). The more I learn, the more I realize that I don’t know. What is the nature of the Holy Spirit? How did the mixture of divinity and humanity work EXACTLY? How could God simply speak the world into existence? Why does God love ME? I close with Whidden’s words on p.62: “If there were no more mystery, what need would there be for faith?”
Salvation found not in the Cross or the Blood but in the atonement of God’s Love
After reading chapters 5 to 11 in the book of Romans, chapters 5 to 9 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, and the following four BHI articles; Why did Jesus Die? How God Saves Us by George W. Reid; Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10, Christ Saved the Human Race and Comments on the “In Adam/In Christ Motifs by Angel Manuel Rodriguez, I have come to the understanding that it is not the Cross or the Blood of Jesus Christ that saves us, but these are just a demonstration or an act of salvation. What truly saves us is God’s awesome and gracious love through the salvation of his Son’s death on the cross, and we accept this gift of love by His grace onto salvation. “"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” John 3:16 God gave everything to mankind in order to demonstrate his love towards us. When man sin, God went as far as giving up His only begotten son to save us. This was the true manifestation of His love for us and towards us. Christ death would be meaningless if it was not out from love of the Father. It is this indescribable love that give Christ death on the cross all its meaningfulness to us. The death of Jesus Christ on the cross is not to be trivialized. Such a death was not glorious in the least. This type of killing in the days of the Roman Empire was only reserved for non Roman citizens. However, even as gruesome as the death of Christ was it or His blood does not save us. This was just a representation of the love of the Father. (Romans 5:5-8) By given has son as an atonement for our sins, God demonstrated how much He loves us and how much He is willing to give up for us. The tendency to focus on the objects of Christ death: the Cross, the nails, Calvary, His blood, and believing these are the means through which forgiveness and salvation comes tempting, however it is a misrepresentation of the true meaning of Christ’s death. It tends to miss the love of God in the experience of the crucifixion and the true gift of salvation. It was God who was crucified for us, through His son Jesus Christ. This was His love expressed in human form, human suffering, and human death. If we could truly recognize this love of the Father towards us, we would place a deeper consideration for the need to sin. To continue to sin is a rejection of God’s undying love towards us. We even disrespect this gift of salvation. We cheapen it by continuing to sin. (Romans 6:12-14) But the beauty off salvation and the love of our Father, is that He standby ready to forgive us even if we willfully again, and again. He does not need to offer His son again and again if we sin. His love covers all our sins past, present, and future. As sin exists, His graceful Love exists even more. (Romans 5:20) Now our sin can never out do His grace. This does not give us the right to presumptuously sin and come to the Father expecting to be forgiven each time we sin. Of course not. Now we live by faith in the fact that we are forgiven and loved, and our response to this love is to honor God with the grace He has given us to not sin. We must always remember that God does not turn us away if we sin. This is one to the mysteries of God’s love towards us. It cannot be explained, therefore we need to believe it and accept is by faith and don’t run away from it. God saves. His entire purpose is to save man for their sins. He writes in Matthew 11:28, “Come to me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” My plea is to not run from God if we sin but to run towards Him, because He loves us more that we could ever imagine and wants to forgive us of our sins. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. It is His Love towards us that save.
Respond to Jonathan Martin on grace and the law. I appreciate you illustration on the bath room and the use of the toilet paper. You are so dead on. There is no need to remind us of the law if we obey the law and we do not need to constantly go back to the law to see if we are in accordance with it. The law is good but we obey not on our own because we can keep the law but by the grace of God. Therefore we need not to be constantly reminded of the law and try and work to keep it, but abide in God and you will automatically keep the law. To me they are inseparable. Law and grace goes together, and it is the grace of god, not ours that allows us to keep the law.
Respond to Bigogo #2 reflection. I could not agree with you more. Although salvation is a free gift the recipient has to do something to obtain it. That is accept is by faith. Hence justification by faith is conditional upon acceptance. As Sister White mention in 2T 159 "Faith will never save you unless it is justified by works." This work is the acceptance. Rich
Reading Assignment #2 Name : Hyo Won Date : Jun 17, 2010 (Rm 8:35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? (Rm 8:36) As it is written： "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." (Rm 8:37) No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. (Rm 8:38) For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, (Rm 8:39) neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. When I read these, I am always touched with few verses Paul wrote as a core value of Christianity. In fact during weekdays I feel inattentive in the class in which there is no focusing point for me, however with these verses finally I am revived in late day of this week. Vs 35 “shall separate” “Can anyone put a distance between us and Christ's love? Can anyone cause Him to stop loving us? All the things that Paul now lists will not make Christ love us any less.”(SDABC, 6BC 579) Just simple insight emerging from my mind is that Christ’s love is the strongest one that everybody wants even in secular society. Vs 37 “ Are more than conquerors” “This compound word occurs nowhere else in the NT. Paul uses a word that depicts the excess of God's blessing over man's need.”(6BC 579) How beautiful words He use for the one who is in Christ! He is always pouring out His blessings excessively into us. Are we ready to receive the blessings (2co 4:7 ‘this treasure in jars of clay’) from the above? “When death comes, that breaks all other unions, even that of the soul and body, it carries the believer's soul into the nearest union with its beloved Lord Jesus, and the full enjoyment of him for ever.” (My lovely Book, Bible, annotated from Rom 8:35~39) I want to be a mature believer even in any the worst situation that I may face, sincerely trusting the Lord with this verse. (Rm 8:37) No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
Reading Assignment #2 Name : Hyo Won Date : Jun 16, 2010 (Rm 8:35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? (Rm 8:36) As it is written： "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." (Rm 8:37) No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. (Rm 8:38) For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, (Rm 8:39) neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. When I read these, I am always touched with few verses Paul wrote as a core value of Christianity. In fact during weekdays I feel inattentive in the class in which there is no focusing point for me, however with these verses finally I am revived in late day of this week. Vs 35 “shall separate” “Can anyone put a distance between us and Christ's love? Can anyone cause Him to stop loving us? All the things that Paul now lists will not make Christ love us any less.”(SDABC, 6BC 579) Just simple insight emerging from my mind is that Christ’s love is the strongest one that everybody wants even in secular society. Vs 37 “ Are more than conquerors” “This compound word occurs nowhere else in the NT. Paul uses a word that depicts the excess of God's blessing over man's need.”(6BC 579) How beautiful words He use for the one who is in Christ! He is always pouring out His blessings excessively into us. Are we ready to receive the blessings (2co 4:7 ‘this treasure in jars of clay’) from the above? “When death comes, that breaks all other unions, even that of the soul and body, it carries the believer's soul into the nearest union with its beloved Lord Jesus, and the full enjoyment of him for ever.” (My lovely Book, Bible, annotated from Rom 8:35~39) I want to be a mature believer even in any the worst situation that I may face, sincerely trusting the Lord with this verse. (Rm 8:37) No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
Assign no#2 Being the second week of the discussion I have to be sincere that our discussion stated becoming more complex, why ?because this is the week which the participants have to present a proposed research paper they will write on this course, the doctrine of salvation, hence our discussion could go forward to where we have not covered or back to where we started from, this depends on the topic the presenter chose, as it were in the time of bible translation from its original manuscripts to other languages, in the process translation the language might differ depending on who is translating it but at least the entire meaning will not get loose sense .This applied to our discussion this week ,some of the presentations were so interesting to me as the presenters were trying to drive the point home. One presenter aroused the sense of humor on the ongoing world cup championship in south Africa, one question that popped in my mind in the beginning was that is he for real or choking or else he has forgotten he has only five minutes to present his topic? but at the end of his five minutes presentation he drove his point on and it strike in our mind that any other presentations with people use like what most theologians like by saying my Greek, ,Hebrew , exegesis, or using several scriptures to drive appoint home could do. I do understand that the bible is like a forest as one anonymous author said i.e. it has several themes ,contexts, stories etc but one point is clear, the entire bible’s theme is based God’s love and man’s redemption[salvation}it doesn’t matter the way you approach this theme as long as it drives this point of salvation and God’s love to people home I have no problem with you .The other presenter presented another controversial topic in our church about the gospel of prosperity, though some don’t want to even listen to this gospel, he said that there is still something we will learn from those preachers ,Faith. Do we have enough faith to believe that we will be saved by grace? He asked, we can also learn that though even Ellen white learned about salvation progressively we should avoid judging her or perceive her to be so legalistic at the beginning because even that legalism point of view led her to grow to the next level. may be her failure led her to entirely depend on God The other commenter during this week eye opened the liberals that sometimes they don’t b need to on neck of the conservative because some truth is so perfect for one to be conservative on,I could also agree that we need to be so conservative on the truth about salvation. Lastly basing my comments on Woodrow book on Ellen white on salvation, the BRI readings and the bible in Romans 4:1 Abraham was justified by faith ,Romans chap 5 we have also been justified by faith and now we have peace with God and in chap 6 it warns us of misusing of this favor we have already received .while the law could condemn us grace purchased us hence our salvation depend entirely on God. It is a gift from him alone.
For Trung Hoang’s reflection I fully agree with him, like very much about mentioning young people who are the future of our church. Nothing is more important than teaching, giving young people saving by faith. I am grateful for that.
‘Was Jesus like the Adam before and after the fall?’
I usually fell vague to deal with it, but now I find a real point of view on this. Thank you for providing me for the verses supporting it in the last paragraph
‘Was Jesus like the Adam before and after the fall?’
I usually fell vague to deal with it, but now I find a real point of view on this. Thank you for providing me for the verses supporting it in the last paragraph.
In our class discussion this week the issue of perfection was raised as to when man reaches the degree of perfection, and the answer was that there is no any sinful human being born of a woman who is perfect. It is only Christ who was and is perfect because of his incarnation. Friends I do believe that the perfect righteousness of Christ is the only answer to the sin problem in any man's life, and there is no single day in this world that we can live and be perfect like Christ. In the after live when Christ comes again our salvation will be complete and we shall be like him when our mortality shall put immortality and finally we will realize our perfection. In Jesus Christ the divine initiative reaches a unique climax. He became one with us, sharing our lot, showing us what true humanity-humanity made in the image of God-is like. He suffered and was tested, struggling with the tempter. He in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin: (Romans 4:15). By word and life, by death and resurrection, the God-man Jesus Christ, brings the good news of God's love for us and the salvation He provides (John 3:16). Isaiah 64:6 says that “But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. I think that as Christians perfection is wholistic in the sense that Jesus’ sacrifice justified us 2000 years ago, and now we are the process of sanctification and finally when Christ comes we will attain our glorification.
Hi brother Hyo Won There is hope in jesus because of what he accomplised for us on the cross of calvary 2000 years ago. the final enemy to be destriyed is death at the second coming.
While discussing the issues raised by Paul in Romans 2:17-29 the conclusion was made that in this chapter Paul speaks about both laws, moral and ceremonial. The argument for the ceremonial law was drawn from the mentioning of the circumcision at the end of chapter 2 of Romans. As I was listening to that I must agree that it went a little bit against my traditional understanding of this text. When I came home I went back to the text in Romans two where Paul talks about circumcision and began to analyze the text trying to apply the principles that we use in this class, namely to read between the lines, and also to apply the holistic approach to the Biblical text. First, I want to say that I do not necessarily disagree with the point made in class about the circumcision pointing towards the ceremonial law. After all, circumcision became one of the obligations of the ceremonial law. Having said that, I think that this was not the main point that Paul tried to get across in this passage. I think that the main point that Paul is arguing here is going back to the original meaning of circumcision. Paul is going all the way back to Genesis 17 when God made a covenant with Abraham that he will become the father of all nations, and as a sign of that covenant He asked Abraham to circumcise himself and all the males in his house. After that incident the circumcision became the sign of a physical Israel. The circumcision was the sign of belonging to Israel, being a true Jew in the flesh. So, when Paul argues about circumcision he goes back to this incident. He is trying to get the point across to the Jews who thought that they were better than the Gentiles and will be saved unlike the Gentiles because they have the sign of circumcision in the flesh. Paul implies in the text that the Jews (at least some Jews) thought that having this sign would save them, even if they break the law. And Paul is saying to them that there is no value in being circumcised and not keeping the law, because even those who are not circumcised (Gentiles) by keeping the law would be looked upon as being circumcised. What does Paul mean by that? I think that he explains in the next few verses what he means by that. Paul goes into explaining the identity of the Jew. He says that a man is not a Jew if he is only outwardly, meaning circumcised, but a man is a Jew who is inwardly, meaning circumcised in heart. So, when Paul says that even the Gentiles become circumcised by keeping the law, which is a symbolical language, he tells them that there is no more distinction between the Jews and the Gentiles according to the New Covenant, in which the Lord promises to write His laws on the hearts of the people (Jeremiah 31:31-33). I think that this is what Paul meant when he said that the circumcision is of the heart. Paul tells the Jews that the physical sign that have separated you form the Gentiles is not valid anymore and that now everyone becomes a part of spiritual Israel by accepting the new sign of the circumcision of heart. From now on salvation belongs to everyone and everyone can have the sign of belonging to the nation of God, spiritual Israel.
Trung Hoang Reflection #2 Only if we were that special... On Monday, someone brought it up and the class had a discussion about Acts 4:12, “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.” As someone comes from the root of the East, not familiar with the Western theology, I have thought about this a lot after my conversion. I heard preachers who preach this subject as if people are only by the “Western Jesus” or the “blond Jesus.” Or only through the “Westerner’s” lens of the Bible that people could be saved. I earnestly accepted the gift of God’s grace for my sinful life, but when I think about and for the people from East or everywhere in the world who have not heard about the Bible. Were the people saved or all were lost because they have not heard about the Bible. If we claim that God is all omni(s) then why can’t be everywhere else other than Palestine. If we want people to believe about the God that we preach we must first let God be God. His love is more abounding and surpasses all our understanding. This is important because how great or just or small we treat our God that is how others will see God. Now, God’s characters cannot be changed by someone’s incomplete view of who He is, but as someone said, “we’re (our life) the only Bible that others would read.” Why is this important to minister? Everything. In the mission classes, we learn how to study the people, the cultures, and the contexts to effectively deliver the gospel. It’s more than to achieve our goal of reaching people are not yet have heard the gospel of Christ. Why did Paul say in Romans 1:12 that he too “may be mutually encouraged” by the Romans? Over and over in his letters, Paul establishes his credential of his apostleship. Deservingly so, he has personal encounters with Christ himself and receives the command of Jesus to spread the gospel. The fact that Paul thinks he can learn something from the Romans shows the true worship of God. He knows what God has revealed to him, but he also know that God has shown to others too. If we are as Christians think deeply about our great God, who is just and shows no favoritism, we can see God in the unexpected places. While God calls Abraham out of Ur and used him to set example for the nations, I wonder if God also raises up many others around the earth to lead his children. This adds to my to-do list when Christ comes back. I want to meet everyone who Christ has used to spread his gospel (true salvation). Believe me, I’m not trying to take away anything that Christ has done, doing, and will do. I’m dare to diminish God’s grace through Christ. I just want us to magnify his vast glory which is beyond our understanding. After saying all of this, I still believe in Christian’s responsibility to spread the good news of Christ. First reason is because Christ commanded. If I am saved and being transformed by the Savior, I too, want others to be saved for I should imitate Christ. Therefore, understanding the doctrine of Salvation wholistically is helpful in our own walk in Christ and helping others to come to him.
Being the second week of the discussion I have to be sincere that our discussion started becoming more complex, why ?because this is the week which the participants had to present a proposed research paper which they will write on this course[ the doctrine of salvation], hence our discussion could either go forward to where will cover or back to where we started our discussions, this depended on the topic the presenter had chosen, as it were in the time of bible translations from original manuscripts , in that process the language could differ depending on who was translating it but the entire meaning will not get lost .This applied to our discussion this week ,some of the presentations were so interesting to me as the presenters were trying to drive the point home. One presenter aroused the sense of humor on the ongoing world cup tournament in South Africa, one question that popped in my mind in the beginning of this approach, was that is this gentleman for real or he is choking or else he has forgotten he has only five minutes to present his topic? but at the end of his five minutes presentation he drove his point on and it strike in our mind than any other presentations with pastors might use for instance most theologians like some introductions like saying my Greek, ,Hebrew , exegesis, or using several scriptures to drive the point home. He was actually relating that game to our journey of salvation. I do understand that the bible is like a forest as one anonymous author said i.e. it has several themes ,contexts, stories etc but one point which is clear is that, but the major theme is based on God’s love to man and man’s redemption[salvation}it doesn’t matter the way you approach this theme as long as it drives this point of salvation and God’s love to people home the way God wants it to be, I have no problem with you .The other presenter presented another controversial topic in our church about the gospel of prosperity, though some don’t want to even listen l, he said that there is still something we will learn from those prosperity preachers ,their overwhelming faith to achieve what they want . In application he asked us that do we have that kind faith to believe that we will be saved by God’s grace?, In the book- Ellen white on salvation, I discovered that even Ellen white learned about salvation by grace progressively .we should avoid judging her or perceive her to be so legalistic at the beginning of her ministry because even that legalism prayed a role towards her spiritual maturity. May be her efforts led her to a more understanding on salvation by grace. One commenter during this week which eye opened the liberals vs. conservatives motion that sometimes they don’t b need to be on each other’s neck too much because neither extreme is good as dr. Hanna said. Holistic, thinking should be encouraged in any form of raising any kind of a controversial issue. Basing my comments on Woodrow book on Ellen white on salvation again, the BRI readings which I have been reading, I supported the idea of relying on the grace of God for our salvation. The Bible in Romans 4:1 Abraham was justified by faith, in Romans chap 5 we have also been justified by faith and now we have peace with God and in Romans chap 6 it warns us now of the misusing of this favor we have already received .while the law was to condemn us, grace purchased us hence our salvation depends entirely on the grace of God.
I enjoyed the last weeks of class because it brings out a different angle on the way I used to see and understand the concept of salvation. The message of the cross is the true definition of salvation because without the cross mankind would have to pay the penalty of sin. The cross has profound meaning because of what it’s represented and who was on it, Jesus Christ the Son of God in the flesh. Jesus is the source of our hope, faith, and love and because He is our sustainer we have access to the gift of hope, faith, and love.
When thinking of the idea of salvation, we cannot help but explore the sacrifice that Jesus had to go through for a sinner like me to have access of salvation, it reminds me of how unworthy I am. Salvation is freely given to those who freely accept God in their life and live according to His will. Realizing that we are all sinners, there is no truth in anyone else but Jesus-Christ, repenting from our sins, understanding and accepting God's love demonstrated by sending His only begotten son, are a step to salvation in Jesus-Christ.
In Romans 6:23, Paul talks about “the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord". We are all sinners and according to Romans, our penalty is death. Nevertheless, praise be too God that His love is far greater than any other love that He did not want to let us perish. He loves us so much that He made a plan of salvation to redeem us from sin and giving us a second chance. We can see the plan of salvation continue to play in the life of his disciple. The book of acts reminds us that, "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." I strongly agree with this statement because salvation cannot be earned, it is the ultimate gifts of Jesus Christ as the only ultimate source of hope, faith, and love.
Overall, there’s nothing one can do extra to earn a place in the kingdom. The only way according to Paul, Ellen white, and my supplementary readings is through the blood of Christ spilled in the crossed of Calvary. We should not only look at the cross, but who is hanging in the cross, for without Him in the cross; the cross would not have any significance to us today.
I have always understood sin to be the transgression of the law and also a separation between the creator and mankind. Sin has a great impact on the way we view God and his character. He loves us so much that He created us in his image and his likeness with the ability to choose and with our own free will and desires. However, if His whole idea and plan was for us to live happy in his company, then why sin had to be introduce in the form of the tree of good and evil; why not just the tree of life.
The bible initiates sin as the breaking of God's law. In order words sin is more than an act, therefore, anyone who breaks the law sins because they know what the law is and they choose to disobey it. Paul, in the book of Romans, says we are all born as sinners and because of that we are condemned to die because that is the penalty of sin. God gives us the law as a mirror to help us see and understand what sin is.
If the laws of God given to Moses on Mt Sinai was not there according to Paul we all would be dead because the full price for sin is death; but thankfully we have a loving father who love his creation so much, was willing to send his only son to come, live, in a sinful world and paid the price that we his creation would have had to pay, which is death. Now because of this great act of love, we now have a brother and a friend who is worthy to sit at the right hand of his father making plans for our future and co-preparing our eternity for us.
Ellen White view on sin is very plain, sin is the transgression of the law, and this is the only definition of sin in the whole Bible, however, we have people who think otherwise, some says that the bible says in Romans 14:23 say that “for whatsoever is not of faith is sin” but this is not defining sin. This verse simply give us one account of sin but it not a clear definition of sin. Ellen White says sin is every act that disobeys God’s law, whether in thought, word or deed is a sin.
In closing, I believe our understanding of sin will greatly impact our salvation. I believe sin is what distances us from God. Sin forces us to march on the opposite direction from God. When we sin, we reject God completely and become our own master. When we sin, it is the same thing as putting a knife into God's heart. It is a rejection of His ultimate love for us. Sin is rejecting God in any form or way.
Response to Richard White's second assignment. I really appreciate you bringing up this point. Even though it sounds a little bit controversial, I can see your point that salvation is not found in the cross or in the blood of Jesus but in the atonement of God's love. Having said that I would like to point out that love was the motivator for God to give up His life for us, but the blood is the essence of the atonement. It was so in the Old Testament with the blood of the sacrifice and it is so in the New Testament with the blood of Jesus. This point is really stressed in the book of Hebrews.
Response to Thomas Oyaro Ong'ou. It is not a easy topic that you chose to speak on. Perfection is one of the hardest things to understand in the Bible, that is why I want to command you for talking about it. I have always thought like you that when we are changed from mortality to immortality we will achieve our perfection, but being in this class Dr. Hanna gave me some food for thought when he said that even when we get to heaven there will be room for growing. Does that mean that we don't achieve complete perfection at glorification or we are talking here about two different types of perfection? I think that we achieve sinless perfection at glorification but we will always mature in our spirituality.
Jared Miller Doctrine of Salvation Reflection #2 6/18/10
Reflections on What I have Read
The BRI article by Larry Kane “Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal ‘Legal’ Justification” dismantled the positions held by the 1888 Message Study Committee. I like Kane’s approach. First he did a Bible study on the passages the 1888 MSC uses to support their view, and through his study he showed that the Bible does not say what the 1888 MSC thinks it says. Second and thirdly he used E. J. Waggoner’s own writings, and the writings of Ellen White to show that neither of them support the positions the 1888 MSC advocates. The 1888 MSC thinks that people need to understand universal legal justification in order to liberate them from their fear and alienation of God (who is out apparently out to get them). I like how Kane showed that throughout the Bible, starting with immediately after Adam and Eve sinned, God took the initiative by coming to them with the desire to restore/reconcile the relationship. The text from Revelation 13:8 was quoted, which refers to Christ being the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. I think Kane did an excellent job of showing that by reading the Bible we can see that God loves humanity and wants to save as many as possible, and the false theories of the 1888 MSC are not needed to alleviate peoples’ fears. I have enjoyed reading through Romans. I have a question about 5:14, which says, “Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.” My question is: what does Paul mean by saying death reigned over people “who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam”? What was the likeness of Adam’s sin that made it different that other human sin? Perhaps this question can be discussed in class, or someone can share their thoughts with me over this blog. Woodrow Whidden’s book seems to be very balanced. Chapter 7 focused on the atonement, and I learned more about the moral influence theory. Whidden said that “in its most extreme form has been proclaimed that Christ’s death as a requirement of God’s justice (Christ’s death satisfying divine justice) was not necessary” (49). This extreme position strikes directly against the Bible’s teaching that the wages of sin is death, so Christ didn’t just die to show how much He loved us, He died for us, in our place, so that we would not have to die the second death, but could live with Him throughout eternity. Whidden shows how Ellen White taught that the cross showed “the supreme manifestation of God’s love” (49), but also emphasized that God’s law is changeless and in order to save us it’s penalty (death) had to be enforced (divine justice). Whidden shows us Ellen White’s balanced views which correct the extreme views of the moral influence theory, etc.
How What I have Read Relates to the Class Discussions
Whidden addressed the theories of atonement, which we also discussed in class. I am glad he covered this, as it helped me realize the above-mentioned extreme view of the moral influence theory. How do people that adhere to this extreme view understand salvation if Christ’s death only demonstrated His love for us? How is the sin problem resolved—as even humans who love God must pay the penalty of their own sin (the second death) if Christ was not our substitute. I like how Dr. Hanna balanced these views as well, and took the good things from both—as Christ is our substitute and our example. The either/or mentality is a strong one in Adventism. I appreciate the holistic view presented in class where it doesn’t always have to be either/or, rather it is often both/and.
I agree with Joel that sin is what distances us from God (Isa. 59:1-2). I also like your point about the substitutionary sacrifice of Christ. Indeed, the Father loves us so much He sent His Son to be our substitute so we could have eternal life.
Response to Joe l Brisson’S contribution, I totally agree with your new perspective you have received in our discussions, if coming to the seminary means that we only come to confirm what we already know or just getting our degrees for our own selfish interests, then I think we are becoming poor stewards of God’s time .but when we learn new ideas then we are on the right track. Share that story to others too………..redeemed how I love to proclaim it!
Jared, I agree with the observation that Dr. Hanna's class has brought up a whole new perspective on the typical either/or question. It's nice, isn't it?
I want to take a stab at your question about Romans 5:14. Adam's individual sin was very deliberate and intentional against God's law, a lack of faith in God (as learned from Patriarchs and Prophets). Not all sins are that way; consider David, who didn't even realize that he had slipped into sin until Nathan brought it to his attention. So, David and Adam had two completely different "likenesses" to their sin, but both still sinned. That's how I read the text at least.
Response to Michael Taylor’s contribution, I totally agree with what you said about Abraham ,he was justified by faith even before his circumsation,it implies that God had already chosen him even before he knew, this brings into our attention the concept of our predestined salvation.Jer:29:11for I know the plans I have for you ,’’declares the lord ,’’plans to prosper you and not to harm you ,plans to give you hope and a future.
Vladimir Isaac Reaction #2 Adam and Human Race in the Writings of Ellen G. White, by Angel Manuel Rodriguez
I definitely enjoy the article of Angel Manuel about Adam and the human race in the writing of Ellen G. Writhe. I like the way the author explain the pollution that Adam’s sin has made in the human race. God placed Adam in the garden as the chief manager of the earth. The Lord gave him the authority to govern on everything that he has created. In addition, God also gives to Adam the right to name to his own creatures because of he trusted him. I wonder if anyone has ever think about how far goes the faithfulness in us. God the creator of everything gives authority and power to one of his precious creature that is created at his image the title to rule over all his earthly creation. It is not mentioned in the bible, but Ellen G. White has mentioned in her writings that Eden was the physical academic place where God meets with Adam to give instruction about everything even the universe. In other words, Adam was aware may be not fully yet, about the great controversy that exists between God and Satan. I strongly believe that his faithful in everything. Therefore, God will never ask his children to do anything without to give any information. The fact that God put in the garden the defended tree this implicit that he has gave the both Adam and Eve enough information about the circumstances that will happen if they disobeyed his commandment. Here is another point I would like to make in this case. God always used human language or figure to communicate to man. In other words, since Adam was created at God’s image that implicit also that God has used proportional language to teach his creature. Meaning that the language spoken at that time between God and man was very clear and understood. Unfortunately Adam chose to follow his own desire, his own heart, and feeling. When sin penetrates in the space between God and man it creates automatically an urge gap. The relationship that used to exist between God and man is no longer. Even the type of language is no longer exists since man becomes independent of God going on his own way to nowhere. Sin has polluted the lovely relationship that exists between the creator and the creature. Ellen G. White comments that Adam’s sin has caused that all human beings are become sinner. Because of one man all human beings has become sinner, therefore for one man also everyone will be justified. This man is Jesus accepts to take human form in order to continue to communicate to man the love of God for humanity. I want to precise that the fact that all became sinner does not mean that we are all made the same sin of Adam. At the other hand, what makes us sinner is the fact that we come to the root of Adam. All trees bear fruit according to its root. Therefore, everything that comes from a root has the same trait of character. It’s to say that we are all sinners because of our father Adam who is Adam is our root; therefore, we have the same characteristic like him. We need like Adam and Eve we a dishwasher to cleanse our sins. We need an intercessor that can stand between God and us, and plead on our behalf. This intercessor is Jesus our savior. Only him is able to wash our sin, and gives us salvation by accepting his blood that he had shed on the cross for you and for me. Today if you and I are infected by sin, or have a sinner’s nature is because Adam our father has failed to remain faithful to God’s commandment. Grace is giving now to any of us when we accept to enter in communion with Christ. Since we agree to get back in a lovely relationship with God by accepting Christ’s sacrifice does we need to remain faithful on his commandments. Question now, can keep the commandments can assure to remain faithful to God? The answer is your.
In response to brother Vladimir's Reflection 2. I did read the same article and I do agree with you that we did not share in Adam's sin by "being in him" in some mystical way but by the fact he is our ancestor and the father of the human race. Good reflection brother!
The issue of salvation is a big one. Having heard Hanna’s model, I have often heard it differently in other circles.My focus is simply a reflection of my own conversion in parallel to that of Ellen Whites as described in our textbook by Whidden. Sitting in class, I reminisced what Hanna was saying about depression being a modern phenomena of ancient flagellation. I too have felt this personally in my walk with God where I have felt that God could not reach me because of compulsive sinning. It is by the grace of God that I am here, still. Yet, sitting in class, I had flashbacks of recent memories of feeling guilty, if not depressed, for failing once again to the standard of Christianity, let alone a pastor. It seems this rollercoaster is an ever tumbling ride. Ellen White seemed to have a similar experience in her journey gone rollercoaster, but in a more vigorous manner. “Feeling that she ‘could never become worthy to be called a child of God’…She was so burdened that she confided to her brother Robert that she had ‘coveted death’ in the days when life seemed so burdensome” (16, Whidden). I don’t think I have every coveted death because of my shortcoming but I somehow realized in reading this excerpt how similar Ellen White’s (and maybe you as well) Christian Walk was/is to my own. Honestly, it kind of felt reassuring that I was not the only one to encounter such a separation with God at one point in my life. But it doesn’t end there. “During this deeply spiritual season she came to understand that she had been indulging in ‘self-dependence’”(16, Whidden). This is where I remember telling God that I wanted to leave Him forever because I couldn’t handle the high expectations of being a Christian. It was too high a calling and not for a sinner like myself. As I read the following passage I realized I had the same problem as did Mrs. White. “She was longing to be ‘utterly accepted by God,’ but she was frustrated by her own lack of feeling” (18, Whidden). I also realized that I was honing in on a feeling of acceptance instead of a communicative, experienced, and transparent one. This is where my path strayed from Mrs. White. “He (Elder Stockman) comforted her with the thought that ‘hardened’ sinners would not be experiencing such deep convictions” (19, Whiddens). I found my assurance through a different medium via School of Hard Knocks, but I came to the same conclusion as did Ellen with the help of Elder Stockman. It really is a blessing to realize the power behind the name of Jesus. Moreover, the assurance that comes with this relationship as Ellen experience when she was met with adversity. “At church trial in which she and her family were put out of the Methodist Church, she testified that she was not ‘conscious of any wrong,’ a classical evidence of the ‘second blessing’” (20, Whidden). When you are placed outside of the church for some reason, many will feel they are rejected by the body of Christ, and in some instances, rejected by God. Not for Ellen. Through her personal struggle and battle with ‘self-reliance’, she came to realize it was because of what Christ has done, and not anything that she had done that gave her the assurance of salvation; nothing could take that away from her. I would like to conclude this by quoting from an article I read in the BRI titled ‘The Dynamics of Salvation’ (the last paragraph before Section 1) and then I will end with a text in Romans 1. “This good news, the gospel, is so utterly different from human modes of thought that it is startling. It is easily distorted or lost or obscured-even by theological debate. Therefore it must be told and retold, probed ever more deeply, heard once and ever anew.” Moreover, “we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for the sake of his name, including yourselves who are called to belong to Jesus Christ” Romans 1:5-6.
Comment on Brother Joel Brisson's Reflection dated 6/18 I find it true that our understanding of sin will greatly impact our salvation and that when sin is given opportunity it teaches us to be self centered and self serving. I believe the subject's understanding is important and that is reason why the bible addresses it. I appreciate your reflection. however, I had a difficulty trying to understand what you meant in paragraph three of your reflection i.e. how you related the law and salvation. perhaphs if it was an oversight you may need to look again at it.
I agree that sin is a terrible thing and is well outlined in Scripture. Since Adam, the human race has fallen short of perfection that could only be atoned for by the blood of Jesus Christ. But there is more to our actions that separate us from God; it is also our fallen nature that is not necessarily and directly our fault. Whidden quotes Ellen White well when he says that, "Sin was defined as both ACTS of transgressing God's will (1SM 320) and a CONDITION of depravity that involves inherited sinful 'propensities,' 'inclinations', 'tendencies' and a bent to sin (that is, inbred or indwelling sin) (5BC 1128; Ed 29; IHP 195" (pg.41). I'm glad God makes up for the mess that Adam and even we continually conjure up.
I like Piasi’s point that we should avoid the extremes of both liberals and conservatives. Instead of either/or thinking, it’s better to have holistic thinking and take the good things from both the liberals and the conservative. I also appreciated Piasi’s emphasizing that we must rely on God’s grace for salvation—not of works, lest anyone should boast.
After reading chapters 10 to 13 in the book of Romans, chapters 13 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, and the following BHI articles; Some Theological Consideration of Perfection by Edward Heppenstall, I shall rejoice in my perfection in him. For years I have been told that I could not attain perfection. This was not only told to me by collogues but also learned Christians. After the discussion in class for the last two days, I realize that these counselors were partly right. I cannot be perfect if I try to be perfect, but I can be perfect in Christ Jesus, and what better way to be perfect.
To first under the meaning of perfection, I had to do away with my cardinal definition of what perfection is. As Woodrow W. Whidden II in his book Ellen White on Salvation page 152, noted “the word perfection is often thought of as only applying to absolute, antiseptic sinlessness-nothing less, nothing more. Such a view is static and usually deals only with specific actions, habits, and behaviors.” This was my view of perfection. After several attempts I found it was fruitless, because there was always something I was lacking to do to be perfect. Thanks Dr. Hanna’s class and the revelation from God, I now realize perfection is not found in me, it is found in Jesus Christ. My work is to repent and trust in His saving merits. At that moment, as Ellen White puts it, I am reckoned as completely perfect in Him. (Ellen White on Salvation, Pg. 153) To recap Professor Hanna’s illustration in class over the past two days, the moment we accept Jesus Christ as our personal savior, we become justified in Him. We are 100% Perfect. Then as we grow in sanctification we are made perfect in every step of the way. This is what Paul talks about Philippians 3:12 “Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.” I press on… It is in this pressing on, forgetting what is behind, that I grow in the grace that our LORD Jesus Christ has afforded me. This grace which is also granted in justification continues to sanctification and on to glorification. Glorification comes after the second coming of Christ, where we continue to press on to reflecting the character of Christ to the ceaseless time of eternity. At no time we should stop pressing on in the perfection that come from Jesus Christ. Perfection is not an end in itself, but a process. This has been my misunderstanding of perfection. I believe it was an end in itself, and that I could attains it here on earth. Furthermore, I even thought that I need to attain it before I would be accepted by God into heaven. I misinterpreted the scriptures when Jesus said “Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.” (Matthew 5:48) I came up with the inaccurate definition that I needed to be perfect as Christ was perfect. I thought I had to work to be perfect. Now I realize that this perfection is Jesus Christ perfection and not mine. He makes me perfect and then I live in obedience and love for Him. I hope and pray that we can see His perfection in us. A reflection in perfection.
Thank you Sevilla for your recent submission. I am glad to know that I am not along in the struggle t please. I too have felt to give up being a Christian because I could never be what a true Christian is. I have also found hope in Mrs. White’s writing and for that I thank God every day, to know that one of his prophets too struggle as I do. But I have this him now renewed due to Dr. Hanna’s class. Thank God.
Response to Jonathan Martin on “Sinless Perfection” Great point of view. I too have struggled with this issue of perfection. I too agree that the work sinless and perfection should place together, as you alluded to in you comment. We will never be sinless. We will always be sinner until our Savior arrives. However, we are perfect in Jesus Christ. As long as we are in Jesus and growing in His grace we are sanctified in Him and we are perfect more and more each day. Pressing on the higher calling. We are not immune from committing a sin as we grow, but the focus should never be on the sin but on Jesus, and He is able to keep us from sinning.
Well said Jonathan! I chuckled as I read your reflection on the conversation you had with this individual. Not long ago I chatted with someone who told me with much enthusiasm, that she was working on perfection and that she was almost there. Needless to say that even though I knew something was not right about what she said, I didn’t know what to say then, so I just nodded seemingly in support of what she said. The ability to determine perfection, especially in ourselves is beyond us. As Dr. Hanna said in class the ones who are considered perfect in the eyes of God, never come to the conclusion that they are perfect by looking at themselves. Instead they are busy seeing the beauty in Christ’s character. It is through this process they are led to see the flaws of their own character and are led to say like Paul ‘O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
The most interesting thing to me about our discussion in class for the first week was how we should suppossedly look at passages of scripture: Litteralistic Vs. Symbolic The Break down, to my understanding, of litteralistic is looking at scripture as it reads right before our very eyes, not adding anything to it not taking away anything from it, just as it reads. If this is literalistic understanding of scripture then this is it, this is the way scripture should be read and understood just as just as we read it. To approach scripture with the understanding that what I am about to read is not going to be what I am reading Is problamatic on many different levels. 1st I cannot truly know by a reading of scripture what Gods will is. If scripture is the purest source of knowledge we have in relating to God and spiritual things and how we should live out our christian lives here on this earth, and I mean for christians in general, Christian conduct , then those scriptures must be easily understood; thus the scriptures are as they read, they must be or the Bible is not the purest or simplest source. 2nd Gives credence to the notion that Only theSeminary educated are equpped to understand scripture, and rightly divide the word of turth. You can just imagine all the interpretaions of scripture that would be out there if passages of scripture were not to be understood just as we read it. We already have many denominations and within those many different beliefs already just imagine how many more people would claim to be Jesus, and how many more Heavens gate cults, if we did not have and were able to understand a clear thus saith the Lord. Did the Roman Catholic church have it correct when they outlawed the reading of scripture by anyone except the clergy because they were the only ones that really understood scripture? I think the Millerites, most not seminary educated, and the poineers of the SDA church, as do all of us say no. The problem arises when we just read one piece of scripture and we rest there and come to some holistic conclusion on the matter without reading other passages of scripture that speak on the same matterial. I believe we should look at the Bible in its entirety understanding that there is a literal and a symbolic side to the Bible, but when we open up the Bible and we read that “ the morning and the evening were the 1st day” then thats what we should believe; and as we read more on the creation event in other passages of scripture we should read those litteralistically as well, and when and if there are seeming contridictions then syenthesize, but let the passage read as it reads.
Its always refreshing to read that one of Gods children has renewed hope in thier status and standing with God. I particularly like your acknoledgement that the youth are indeed our future and we need to teach them well. I would say that they are our present and we should be mentoring and discipling them even now, they have the audience of the world.
Back to the basics was great advice, I like to keep it at the basics. I believe if you keep it basic then you have accomplished the Gospel. to the masses Jesus was not deep, from what I read, keep it basic. Our studies should go deep but our message should be basic. I find it interesting that it was on Ellens death bed that she was fearful of death because she didnt have a basic understanding of her salvation, but when she understood justification, and had the assurance of salvation, God told her I have a vision for you. Keep it basic...I agree
to me salvation is still a mystery, I mean i know how we get salvation, and what salvation is but in terms of the lost, and how that reflects on the character of God, being good, loving and kind, and this grace thing you talk about, the lost wont experience any of that....salvation humm what is it.... just my thoughts
I trully appreciated the detail that you put in your response to your findings,but i dont see how, or the union between the divine and the human in nature, what are your thoughts?
The most interesting thing to me about our discussion in class for the first week was how we should suppossedly look at passages of scripture: Litteralistic Vs. Symbolic The Break down, to my understanding, of litteralistic is looking at scripture as it reads right before our very eyes, not adding anything to it not taking away anything from it, just as it reads. If this is literalistic understanding of scripture then this is it, this is the way scripture should be read and understood just as just as we read it. To approach scripture with the understanding that what I am about to read is not going to be what I am reading Is problamatic on many different levels. 1st I cannot truly know by a reading of scripture what Gods will is. If scripture is the purest source of knowledge we have in relating to God and spiritual things and how we should live out our christian lives here on this earth, and I mean for christians in general, Christian conduct , then those scriptures must be easily understood; thus the scriptures are as they read, they must be or the Bible is not the purest or simplest source. 2nd Gives credence to the notion that Only theSeminary educated are equpped to understand scripture, and rightly divide the word of turth. You can just imagine all the interpretaions of scripture that would be out there if passages of scripture were not to be understood just as we read it. We already have many denominations and within those many different beliefs already just imagine how many more people would claim to be Jesus, and how many more Heavens gate cults, if we did not have and were able to understand a clear thus saith the Lord. Did the Roman Catholic church have it correct when they outlawed the reading of scripture by anyone except the clergy because they were the only ones that really understood scripture? I think the Millerites, most not seminary educated, and the poineers of the SDA church, as do all of us say no. The problem arises when we just read one piece of scripture and we rest there and come to some holistic conclusion on the matter without reading other passages of scripture that speak on the same matterial. I believe we should look at the Bible in its entirety understanding that there is a literal and a symbolic side to the Bible, but when we open up the Bible and we read that “ the morning and the evening were the 1st day” then thats what we should believe; and as we read more on the creation event in other passages of scripture we should read those litteralistically as well, and when and if there are seeming contridictions then syenthesize, but let the passage read as it reads.
It's interesting that the terms "in Adam" and "in Christ" are not in the Bible at all. I agree that the idea that every human being was in Adam when he sinned is confusing and it may lead to many theological problems. We're Adam's descendants. We inhere the consequence from original sin, but God will judge Adam and us differently according to each person.
Response to Richard M. White Assignment #2 Salvation found not in the Cross or the Blood but in the atonement of God’s Love
It's amazing to hear how many people still believe that the cross, or statue, or any physical materials have any power to save. The lady in the gospel touched Jesus' garment didn't get heal because his cloth is more holy. She got healed because of faith in Jesus' power and his compassion to heal her. Same principle can be found the book of Acts. The sick believed what God can do through the apostles and what the apostle themselves can do. God's salvation is more complex and more powerful than just physical objects.
In response to Wilking, It is true that Faith Hope and Love are integral parts of our life as you have mentioned. I appreciate the fact that you have quoted Ellen White and the book of James to point out that there needs to be a balance in all of this. We need to exercise the faith, hope, and love.
In response to Cesar, I am sure we can all agree with your situation of wanting to change the law for our benefit, and to also rationalize things in our favor. I agree with you that Christ did give a new meaning to law that is fundamentally different from what we had before. May Christ continue to change us!
I thank God for this great opportunity that he gives me to be here at Andrews in preparation to become a better servant and Christian. Since long time ago I usually have in mind that perfection is something that I will never get in my life since only God is perfect. It is partly true though, but I understand now I can also perfect like Jesus is. The only think I need to be aware to not be fool in thinking that I can get it by myself. Like you said brother White, according to the last class discussion, is possible to be perfect if we stay connected to Jesus Christ the source of perfection.
In response to 6/17/2010 4:29 PM Thomas Oyaro Ong'ou
I agree with you when you said Christ is the only perfect one because of his incarnation. I believe the only reason that Jesus Christ is perfect was because of His connection with the His father. If He was not connected with the His father He would not be perfect.
I really enjoyed this teaching of our previous classes discussion. It brings me to think about a church I know that is extremely conformist. The people over there took everything literal. They don't allow certain things not because the bible says so, but according to their tradition and their vision. They are worse than the Pharisees, but they cannot see that.I think as pastors we have a lot of jobs to do than we think. I believe that one of the most important things that a pastor needs to do in his ministry, which very crucial, is to teach the people in the church how to become and maintain a good relationship with God without any form of exaggeration. To teach them also how to read and interpret the bible both literally and symbolically.
Wilkin I like the point you made about the fact that we do not have to be perfect to be counted righteous. However, I am often puzzled that though we know this theoretically, yet in the practical sense we are sometimes unable to reconcile this with our act. By this I mean there is still the tendency to ‘perform’, and as one performs the idea behind the performance is that in performing one is adding to the celestial bank of good deeds. The belief is that at some point one will receive rich dividends. One cannot live outside the commands of God, yet it is vital that one focuses on the conditions surrounding obedience to the commandments. As you have reiterated, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by according to His mercy He (Christ) saved us”.
Vladimir Isaac Assignment #3 Article: The Dynamics of Salvation
By definition salvation is simply mean the action of save. In reading the article entitled Dynamics of Salvation, and listening to professor Hanna about this topic I definitely understand the true meaning about salvation. We are serving a God who plans ahead for us before even our existence. Does God know what will happen shortly after creating man? There was a perfect harmony in heaven Ellen White comments. Lucifer was the head chief of the angels. He had the responsibility to bring angels by group before the big throne of the universe to worship God. He was lifted up in the highest position in heaven among the angels. He was a beautiful angel with a large forehead that represents a special knowledge that he had. The angels had great admiration for him, and had showed him great respect for his beauty and special knowledge. But one day, he decided to do something else. He was so jealous of Christ; he wished to take Chris’s position by sitting also on a throne and be able to participate in everything that the trinity is planning to do. He began to campaign hardly against the trinity’s government. As a result of his rebellion God did not chase him from heaven, but threw him away like a trash. He established then on earth after causing man to disobeyed God’s commandment. We became therefore under his authority at the same time we give him the opportunity to continue his campaign against God on earth. Does God was aware about that? Nothing can surprise God. He was certainly aware about the situation. The only reason that the Lord allowed this happened is because of the free will that he gives to his creatures. In other words, there are two things that God will not be able. (1) God cannot violate his word. No matter what happened the world will not passed without the word of God has been fulfilled. (2) God will never take away our free will. He gives us the opportunity to accept or reject him according to our heart. I bring this picture to the table in the perspective to lift up in the highest level the importance of the salvation’s plan in the life of anyone that accepts to stand with God. After Adam’s sin man is subject of death. Death for Adam had disobeyed to God’s commandment. But now since Jesus took the penalty of death for us we are free from sin. God in a special way has provided the death of Christ in our place. We are not saved for our works or our science pretending knowing God. I am going a little further then, we are not even saved by the blood of Christ says brother White. Other than anyone can be willing to shed his blood for someone else. Neither the cross should not be the culminant point of our salvation since it was a custom for thieves and criminals to be crucified on cross under the Roman Empire. We are just saved because Christ, the King of kings and the Creator of the universe had accepted to humble himself as God and to bear on his shoulders the sins of all human beings that accept his sacrifice. In other words, what makes the sacrifice to be a sacrifice is because Christ on the cross has taken away his royal garment to dress with the dirtiest dress ever for our sake. He does not have the obligation to do such thing, but for his love for us has no limitation he was voluntary to take the sentence. Another thing that back up strongly the salvation’s plan is the faithfulness of Christ. We should ever forget that. We are saved as followers of Christ for he is faithful on his promise. How about us? Can we be faithful Him? This decision is ours.
Doctrines are established to set forth a standard of belief among people who share some commonalities. But sometimes doctrines divide instead of foster unity. The fact that doctrines are more than a set of standardize beliefs is often over-looked. The reality is that doctrines reveal various attributes of the character of God. While the doctrine of the Godhead illustrates the Holy, Omni persona of God, and the doctrine of man reveals His creating power, the doctrine of salvation reveals the unconditional love of God for fallen humanity. The doctrine of salvation is sometimes misunderstood, and even manipulated to fit into individuals’ ideal. One would hardly disagree with the general understanding that salvation is God’s method of reconciling sinful man to Himself. However, it is the process of salvation that is often misunderstood. Questionings like: Does once saved means always saved? Or, Am I justified by faith in Christ, or am I justified by my works of keeping the commandments? Is one saved by faith, or by works? Such are just a few of the questions that surface in discussions surrounding salvation. The contemporary minds, without insight into some of the issues that faced the church centuries ago, might wonder if they are unique in their thinking. But history records events like the 1888 Minneapolis Conference in which some church leaders wrestled with understanding the subject of righteousness by faith as it pertain to the salvation of man. The results of such wrestling has cemented the reality that salvation is found in none other than Christ and it is a gift made available to anyone willing to accept this gift. The initial experience of salvation where one accepts Christ through repentance and confession entails completeness in the sense that, should the individual cease to be (die) at the time of acceptance that individual would share the ultimate result of salvation-eternal life. On the other hand, if the person’s life is prolonged, the next phase of salvation is embarked on. This phase referred to as sanctification is the process in which one, through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit lives in obedience to the command of God. The matter of sanctification is a progressive, individual process governed by the precepts of God’s law. Yet it is interesting to know that while everyone is evaluated by the fixed standard of the law, every individual evaluation is unique and each one (whose focus is fixed on Christ) experience one hundred percent sanctification at the level he or she is at. It is hard to fully understand this process in view of the mathematical implication of one hundred percent, but the matter of salvation is that of faith and faith cannot be reasoned or understood from a human perspective.
Reaction No. 2 After the fall, the bible reveals that God provided a solution for the salvation of mankind from eternal damnation (the wrath of God). This solution involved the death of Christ on the cross as Paul implicitly records; “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” (Rom. 5:8). One is hereby bound to radically question; having created man with inherent ability or the will to choose between right and wrong, “Is it possible that God had foreknowledge of man’s probability to fall into sin through disobedience, and as a result provided Christ to die and redeem mankind as “the lamb slain from the foundation of the world?” (Rev. 5:12). Presumably, God created man with the option of choosing between right and wrong through the exercise of will power. Man, had definitely never known the results of evil for he had been created in the presence of God‘s perfect goodness. Man seemed to have experimented with that which God had not intended for giving him the freedom to choose between right and wrong. If at all God fore-knew that man cold for sure fall into sin if he (man) did disobey which of course he did, “was Christ’s death on the cross not an intentional act to later display the result of disobedience, the deception of Satan, and the magnitude of His love to mankind ?” Having had a few of such questions running through my mind, I truly appreciate that Professor Hannah has indeed helped me to see the wholistic approach in trying to wrestle with them. It is for sure that God did not create mankind as a robot, but rather in His own image implicitly drawing the idea of rational beings with the ability to make decisions by will power. May be God’s intention of creating mankind with room for freedom was that man become arbitrary in choosing his own destiny without God being seen as the influencing or dictating power. Literally, the problem does not lie in the ability to make choice that God has bestowed upon us, but rather the choice that we make. Though created with an intuitive room to make decision, it was not imperative that man choose disobedience for God had already provided enough instruction to cushion him from the awful results of a wrong choice. God in His sovereignty has ever used will power to choose what is right. The death of Christ on the cross reveals the awfulness of wrong choice and thus directs us to the benefits of right choice.
i am completely agree with in this manner about the greatest paradox human can ever fully comprehend. "How come Jesus can be like the Adam after the fall since he is God? I believe that this one of the greatest paradoxes that all human beings have to accept it as it is. But, let try to figure out how come Jesus can be considered as a sinner."
Assignment # 3 “Sanctification is the progressive work of a lifetime. The Lord declares, "This is the will of God, even your sanctification." Is it your will that your desires and inclinations shall be brought into conformity to the divine will? As Christians, we have pledged ourselves to realize and fulfill our responsibilities, and to show to the world that we have a close connection with God. Thus, through the godly words and works of His disciples, Christ is to be represented.” We can see clearly in Mrs. White writings that she gave a full endorsement to Jesus in her writings and in ways that confirmed her to be a qualified prophet. Dr. Hanna mentions in chapter “For Ellen White, the Christ-centered connections of divine and human persons involve three overlapping themes of Scripture….” What impresses me is the involvement of Christ with human on this earth to restore our image. “Christ had not exchanged His divinity for humanity; but he had clothed His divinity in humanity (Sanctification).” “He veiled His divinity with the garb of humanity, but he did not part with his divinity.” “This is why, although he was tempted in all points like as we are, He stood before the world, from his first entrance into it, untainted by corruption, though surrounded by it.” One of the reasons I think Christ did not sin is because He was connected with His father while He was on earth. Christ came to the sinful world to show us; we can live in a sinful world without committing sin. If we are truly connected with God through Him; we can say that we are on the right track for sanctification. Now I have a new view about sanctification, I used to think that there is level I need to reach before Christ return. Since justification and sanctification overlapping each other; we can say that the final product is glorification which we will receive when Christ return. “The light given me of God places this important subject above any question in my mind. Justification is wholly of grace and not procured by any works that fallen man can do.”
I definitely appreciate you commenting on the importance of free will in the doctrine of salvation. We haven't spent too much time in class on this subject, but it is somthing that shouldn't be overlooked. Free-will flows from the love of God, which is the foundation of the gospel message. Thanks for your post!
When you said that salvation is not a singular utopian experience, nor a process of performance, you hit it right on the nail. People really do want to make it one or the other, but in reality it's a blending of both. I never understand why people want to take things to extremes...
Edgar, I completely agree with your statement that we need to get back to the basics. If we don't have the foundation right, the structure we build will not be right.
When you talked about our tendancy to rationalize our sins, I completely related! We are horrible, wretched sinners. Your illustration about the officer who's daughter was killed is absolutely perfect. We killed the son of God, and yet we want to rationalize our actions...
Wilking Jean has mentioned that he used to believe that he must reach a certain level of sanctification before Christ will return. This appears to be a common belief for many Christians. As I reflect on my continual stumbling and falls back into sin, I am delighted to understand that Christ's return will not hinge on my behavior!!!
I agree with you when you said, "getting on the ground level". It important to start at the ground level because it allow us to meet our brothers and sister at the level where they are and prevent us from passing judgements to others.
It was good to read that the H.G. has done it again, It has given us assurance in Jesus. what do you think is the reason we can not go to heaven without justification
and
by whom did Jesus Garb His humanity with Divinity?
I think it will always be a mystery why God allowed all of this to happen, when He knew before all of the details of history, present and future. When we get to heaven we can ask him, for now I just rest in His faith knowing that God is good, all the time.
The issue of whether we are saved by the cross and the blood or Jesus has come up a few times in our discussions. And it is important that I add a point of clarification lest the blood and cross of Christ “is made ineffective” (1 Cor 1:17).
Actually, the message of the cross is the power of God (1 Cor 1:17). We should boast in the cross of Christ by which the world is crucified to us and we are crucified to the world (Gal 6:14). Christ has reconciled us through the cross (Eph 2:16). He made peace through the blood of his cross (Col 1:20). Jesus is our mercy seat by his blood (Rom 3:25).
We are justified by his blood (Rom 5:9). We have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins (Eph 1:7; Col 1:14). We are brought near to God by his blood (Eph 2:13). The blood of Christ will cleanse your conscience (Heb 9:14). We have remission of sins by his blood (Heb 9:22). We have boldness by the blood (Heb 10:19). We are sanctified by the blood of Jesus (Heb 13:12).
What then is the point of the presentation I made in class? The point is this. We can be literalistic and legalistic even in our interpretation of the blood and the cross of Christ. In this way we miss the literal meaning of the blood and the cross. This literal meaning is communicated by the figure of speech called synecdoche. According to this figure of speech the part is used to refer to the whole.
So the literal meaning of the biblical references to the blood and cross of Christ is deeper that the surface meaning of blood and cross. No one collected the blood that flowed from Jesus so that by physically touching that blood salvation is made available to us. The wood of the actual cross on which he died has not been preserved so that by touching it we may receive salvation.
And yet, there is power in the blood and in the cross! Wonder working power! How so? Because the blood and the cross are representative of the whole of who Jesus is and what he has done for us. He is the eternal God who became flesh and poured out his blood on the cross and was resurrected and lives eternally as our Savior. This is the literal message of the blood and the cross.
This is not a symbolic interpretation that leaves behind the literal reality of blood and cross. Neither is it literalism and legalism that degenerates to superstitious veneration of the bloody cross as an end in itself. Rather, the blood and the cross was a means to an end which is salvation through the Christ who lived, and died and lives again (Rev 1:18). This is the literal message of the blood and the cross that we are called to preach. So my brothers and sisters, preach it!
I know that many people share your struggles with sin and salvation, and I was also blessed by reading that even Ellen White struggled with salvation. I can't help but wonder if I have ever been that preacher who's calls to obedience were so strong that I cause the members (and especially the visitors) to question God's love for them. To preach God's high standards without also preaching the "In Christ" truth has scared many away from the church altogether; and I too am thankful for the models taught in class.
So, just a follow-up question. Because the cross has such profound symbolism, how do you feel about individual Christians putting up the symbol of the cross in their house/car/attire/etc.? What about Christian congregations displaying the sign of the cross in their churches? While we all know that they're not showing off THE cross upon which our Savior was crucified, it does create a strong emotional response.
In my first reading assignment I was impressed by a topic within the doctrine of Salvation and that was ‘Christian character perfection’. My attention was drawn unto this topic due to the fact that I have, in many instances, seen and witnessed to the passionate manner that many christians and specifically some within the Seventh-day Adventists, interpret and live out based on that interpretation. In Philippians 3:12-13 and 3:20-21 we read: Not that I have already attained this – that is, I have not already been perfected – but I strive to lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus also laid hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself to have attained this. Instead I am single-minded: Forgetting the things that are behind and reaching out for the things that are ahead….20 But our citizenship is in heaven – and we also await a savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform these humble bodies of ours into the likeness of his glorious body by means of that power by which he is able to subject all things to himself. Who could attain any more than this? Paul had an encounter with the risen Christ and that experience opened his eyes to the fact that he had not arrived at all. He was not furthering the work of God; he was opposed to it. He had not arrived, he was not even on the right path. He was going in the wrong direction! Having come to faith in Christ for his salvation, Paul knew that he was on the right path and going in the right direction. But he also realized that he had not yet arrived, and that there was a difficult course ahead, which required perseverance and discipline. Some of our brethren justify their position in the writings of Ellen G White and defend the idea that a Christian has a single goal in life, i.e. perfecting one’s character. I found interesting in the assigned reading the following statements on this matter, explaining the position of Ellen G White: Though there were significant modifications of the details of the Holiness experience, her teachings would always give great accent to the importance of sanctification and perfection. Her ministry in coming years would move her more and more to emphasize that sanctification was not the work of a moment, but that of a lifetime. Perfection was not to be claimed as some sinless accomplishment, but rather sought as a way of life that would see believers grow in grace until they received the finishing touch of sinlessness at glorification.
Jasmine Fraser... I agree with Brother Fraser that the doctrine of salvation may be interpreted wrongly and become harmful rather than valuable on the way towards salvation.This comes as a result of compartmentalizing it at bar alongside other doctrinal believe systems.finally this ends up giving a lee way of judging others based on religious standards. To avoid unnecessary wrangles, we ought to hold this doctrine highly for it is transcendent above any human organization and can only be achieved through faith as Fraser indicates.
Richard White... I appreciate Brother Richards sincere analysis of how we get saved.Thanks for touching this cord for I also did struggle with the idea of perfection having grown within the church.Truly, as you indicated, we are saved by grace alone without input.It is God's act and our part is literally acceptance of the offer which comes along with the ability to accept and do the will of God as Paul indicates in Titus 2:12..."this grace becomes our school master ,teaching us to say no to ungodliness..."
The issue of perfectionism has plagued Adventism by making a clear divide within the church between those who believe humans can attain perfection before glorification by living at our very best behavior, and those on the other side who believe that it can only happen with Christ’s help. However, this issue should not be an issue at all, because as Dr. Hanna pointed out, it is perfection, and not perfectionism that we should be concerned about. Perfectionism carries with it a notion that we can do something of ourselves in order to achieve perfection, while it is clearly not true. Some may argue on why Jesus came to live in order to show us an example of how we should live. Yes, Jesus indeed came to show us how to live; not to show us we can achieve salvation on our own, but to show us how we can fully depend on God. Correctly understanding this can help us to correctly understanding the human nature. The subject that is as hotly debated as the issue perfectionism is the issue of Christ taking on human nature before or after Adam. Whidden quotes Ellen White’s statement in his book, Ellen White on Salvation, that Although Adam’s sin caused his descendants to be “born with inherent propensities of disobedience”, it was not total depravity. The amazing thing is that sinners still do have the freedom and the ability to respond to God’s grace. What we also inherited from Adam is guilt and the death sentence. It means that because of sin and guilt that we inherited from Adam, there is no way that we can ever be of any value to God. We are so defiled, corrupt, and stained with corruption that there is nothing we can do can make us anymore acceptable. It is with this realization of total hopelessness that we can begin our journey with God. It is only when we realize that there is nothing that we can do, it is only when we realize that there is no merit in our own works, that Jesus is able to step in to purify us with His saving blood. I believe that is why it was so much easier for tax collectors and prostitutes to accept Jesus than for the Pharisees, and other religious leaders of that time. The interesting fact is we often do not feel the need of God until we realize our helplessness. I could not agree more with Whidden that “redemption is Christ-centered in all its aspects of calling, conviction, forgiveness, empowerment for obedience (and service) and glorification). In Biblical Research Institute library, I found an article on perfectionism where the author stated that “the perfect righteousness of Christ is the only answer to the sin problem in any man’s life, the only possibility of living like Christ here and now.” I believe it is time that we throw away our masks, and admit our current condition. Only then would we receive the saving grace of Christ.
Perfection, how can one reach perfection? Perfection is not salvation, but it’s a bridge that motivates us to keep pressing on. The bible informs us that perfection is a goal that we all should look forward to. Why do many people believe that they have already reached perfection? Paul declares we need a balance on things, although, Matt. 5:48 says, “We should be perfect just as our father in heaven is perfect”. We can reach that perfection only if we stay connected on the vine. Nevertheless, once we disconnect ourselves from the vine, you cannot reach perfection. Jesus, the only perfect one, took the death that we deserved, so we may live in perfect peace through Him.
Perfection is a process of listening, learning, and growing with the help of Jesus. Philippians 3:12-16 advise us that in order to be perfect we must keep on pressing toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called us heavenward in Christ Jesus. People who are perfect want to grow more in perfection, there is no stopping ground because the minute you stop; You stop growing in Christ and you allow self pride to enter which forces you to disregard the grace, and mercies of God.
Jesus is the only one that can complete the process perfection in us. EGW in the Great Controversy states while our great High Priest is making the atonement for us we should seek to become perfect in Christ and those who are unwilling to deny self, to agonize before God, to pray long and earnestly for His blessing, will not obtain it (GC 621, 623). Therefore there is no other way to obtain salvation but though Him.
Largely, the early writings warn us that the process will not be easy but if we remain faithful and know that we are covered under his robe of righteousness, we can and will reach perfection and even then we will continue to grow in perfection through His grace and His love when we get to heaven. It’s all about grace.
Paul Muniz 2nd Blog: Yea, All Are Saved, Not - Maybe!
said...
I once again expose my lack of knowledge, or know how. I confess that prior to this class I had never heard of the thought described as “Universal Salvation”. As I ponder such I began to suppose what it might be. Could this be another name for “once saved always saved?” Or is this implying that every creature that lives, including animals, are available to receive salvation or are automatically saved? So, I began to seek more information. I soon learned that there are about 7 hypotheses of Universalism. And that Origen was most likely the first person to promote such thought. According to Origen he surmised, “that the punishment of the wicked of which the Bible speaks will not be some form of eternal external suffering inflicted upon them b God, but a temporary internal anguish occasioned by their sense of separation from him.” He further believed that the main goal was purification. And such “end can be realized without eternal punishment and at the right moment the “punishment of the wicked will” cease. At that time “all things will be restored to their original condition”. This is what is known as “Origen’s doctrine of apokatastasis”. One of the several hypotheses of Universal Salvation declares that all humans are saved, but that those who are actually saved are those who do not reject the free gift of salvation. But this smells a lot like “once saved always saved” theology. Another thought is that Universal Salvation is the idea that what took place on the cross fulfilled an objective and lawful justification that is both unconditional and universal applicable to every human. Larry Kane’s article brought more clarity to this subject matter for me. In light of his description I now have a clear picture of what this doctrine is really implying. I embrace, then, the idea that what Jesus did on the cross has implications that reach back towards the beginning of time and forward to the ends of time. If we were to look at the symbolic implications of the cross we would recognize that the cross has many dimensions. There are the vertical and horizontal dimensions. Up, down, left and right. The works of the cross reach back in time to the very first sin committed, even in the heavenly realm. It also reaches to the ends of time, to those sins that are not yet committed. Furthermore, it reaches down to the pit of Hades, and is powerful enough to take all who accept its merits into the pearly precious gates of heaven. Yes this kind of Universal Salvation I can embrace and understand. It basically says that Jesus died for all sinners, of the universal, once and for all. He does not have to die over and over again. The works of the cross cover a multitude of sins, even those that will be committed by those people who are not yet born. The Seventh-day church calls this Universal “Legal” Justification. What Jesus did on the cross legally covers all my sins, and therefore makes me as if I had not sinned, justifying me, and all of humanity. A corporate justification, as some may label it. Yes, there are aspects of obedience, trust and faith, but my works does not bind Jesus’ act on the cross, they are His meritorious works. And it is through His doing that all of humanity can be saved. We are unable to save ourselves. Universal justification is truly, then, “good news”. Every being has access to salvation. We should all be rejoicing, for that means that all of my siblings, friends, and all those individuals that I do not know have an opportunity to enter the great Kingdom of Heaven. Thank you Jesus! For further study of this matter one can look at Romans chapter 3, 5 and 8. The Apostle Paul drives the point home throughout his writings in Romans 3:2-31 “…there is none righteous, not one. For all have sinned”. Thus we all need to be justified, and that comes through and by faith in Jesus Christ alone. We are therefore “Universally Saved”, thanks to Jesus of Nazareth!
Assignment # 2 Considering that each person will be judged by the knowledge and application of truth which he or she possesses, how much does that play a role in the promulgation of the Gospel as the Seventh-day Adventist (SDA) church understands it. Is the term “gospel” being used in a broader context, including the teachings of the SDA church, or is it confined to the teachings of the SDA church? If God has a plan of the salvation for everyone, then what does it matter what religion a person espouses? How do we interpret that the Gospel message going into the entire world? Should we accept by faith what has been revealed even amidst the missing pieces? We are saved by faith which works. God is able to communicate beyond the circle of Adventism. If such is the case, one could contend that mission should not be determined by the dogmas of the SDA church. Are some teachings to be excluded from our mission focus as it relates to spreading the Gospel? Should the SDA church remain a strict adherent to its teachings while carrying the mission of the church which is to preach the gospel message throughout the world? I believe it is possible for the SDA church to remain faithful to its mission emphasis. If greater light has been shed on this body of believers, then I believe it is necessary for the church to penetrate political boundaries, all for the purpose of teaching the good news of Jesus. There are other faithful bodies of believes whose mission and understanding of the gospel message plays significant role in the world, and one should be careful not to predetermine the veracity of their missional emphasis. Another important aspect which ties in to the manner by which the good news of Christ is preached is that of culture. How much does culture determines the manner by which this gospel as understood by the SDA church influences its message and mission? I believe that it is necessary to for the SDA church to remain focused on its mission emphasis, and to always be biblically faithful while being culturally relevant.
Romans 8:28-30 And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them. 29 For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And having chosen them, he called them to come to him. And having called them, he gave them right standing with himself. And having given them right standing, he gave them his glory.
Foreknowledge – Predestination – Call – Justification – Sanctification – Glorification “Wonderful possibilities are provided for everyone who has faith in Christ. No walls are built to keep any living soul from salvation. The predestination, or election, of which God speaks, includes all who will accept Christ as a personal Savior, who will return to their loyalty, to perfect obedience to all God's commandments. This is the effectual salvation of a peculiar people, chosen by God from among men. All who are willing to be saved by Christ are the elect of God. It is the obedient who are predestinated from the foundation of the world. "To as many as received him, to them he gave power to become the sons of God, even to as many as believed on him." {GH, June 11, 1902 par. 3} Since God is Omniscience, omnipotent and omnipresent does that mean predestination remove the freedom of choice? As I read for the class assignment I made fantastic discovering about freedom of choice. WHY are we not successful in living up to God's standard? WHY do we slip and fall occasionally? Here is how you can overcome? “Each human being is given the freedom of choice. It is his or her to decide whether he/she will stand under the black banner of rebellion, or under the blood-stained banner of Prince Emmanuel. With deep solicitude heaven watches the conflict between good and evil. None but the obedient can enter the gates of the city of God. Upon those who choose to continue in transgression, the death sentence must at last be pronounced. The earth will be purified from their misdoings, their defiance of God. {RH, March 15, 1906 par. 14}” These things are serious. In other to be an overcomer in this world we must believe that Jesus is the Redeemer of the world. Also we must believe that we cannot overcome the world in our own power. "To him that OVERCOMES," says Jesus, "will I grant to sit with me in my throne." "He that OVERCOMES, and keeps my works unto the end, TO HIM will I give power over the nations; and he shall rule them with a rod of iron." (Revelation 2:26-27; 3:21.) When Christ return He will glorify those who overcome the world by granting them a sit in heaven.
I appreciated the sensitivity that you had in approaching this issue. I agree with you that we need to have faith which works, and I also agree that our church needs to be culturally relevant while holding on to our emphasis on mission.
I definitely appreciate your discussion on perfectionism. The moment we think we have attained it, is the moment we stop needing Jesus. God forbid we reach the point of being so comfortable with ourselves that we forget all about the grace of God found in Jesus Christ.
I appreciate the fact that you have distinguished perfection from salvation. I also appreciated the quote that you listed here from Ellen White that we should earnestly seek God's blessing. Yes we do know that God's robe of righteousness covers us, but we need to continue to seek God, so that we can continue to grow in Him.
Thanks so much for your reflections on being perfect in Christ! Being perfect, or mature, in Jesus means we trust that Jesus will make up for where we are lacking...and we are definitely lacking. Because our righteousness (even our very best righteousness) is like filthy rags, we have no alternative except trusting that we are made perfect IN CHRIST!
Vladimir Isaac In response to Wilking Jean posting
I like the way you make your point concerning the issue of predestination or election. You have clearly and shortly presented, though I am paraphrasing, that all human beings have the choice to either choose their predestination lost by rejecting Christ's salvation, or to choose their predestination eternal life by accepting the blood of Christ poured out on the cross.
I like the way you present the subject about Grace vs law. Like you mention the key is to find a balance between the two. But my question to is that: does Grace cancel out the work of the law?
I completely agree with the idea that the key to understanding the passages of Romans 10-13 that deal with the perfection. I like the way you explain perfection of human being. we know that throughout the eternity we will continue to grow, there is not be a point where we can declare that we have reach the perfection level that we suppose to reach.
I like the way you approach the case of the SDA church that needs to remain firm in their mission while they need to remain strongly faithful in their mission.
Fraser I could agree more with you the way you explain doctrine in your posting. you have done a great job. I really believe we should be more inclusive instead of being exclusive in our doctrine. Unity or reconciliation with the heavenly being is the main focus of Christ Jesus.
In Hebrew 11:6 Paul outlines that “without faith it is impossible t please Him (God), for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him”. The subject of faith in its simplest form denotes belief and trust. Pastor Jan Paulsen in the article “Salvation by Faith” presents a practical illustration in an effort to help in the understanding of faith. This illustration proposes two dimensions of faith as objective, and subjective. Paulsen describes the objectivity of faith as “information and data that lie outside a person and a person’s experience”. Essentially, the experience of Christ incarnation, His death and resurrection are realities with which one cannot empathize with in a practical sense. Neither can one fully comprehend the process, yet one believes, and embraces these occurrences.
Moving to the subjective application of faith, Paulsen proposes that the “objective aspect of faith becomes subjective when an individual, looking at the incarnation, the death, and resurrection of Christ and is inspired to trust Him”. What is the implication of this trust in the process of salvation? Without digging into the depths of the atonement one can understand this implication by reviewing Adam’s strategy in providing for his sin problem. When Adam and Eve realized their nakedness, they felt the need to take care of their situation, and sewed fig leaves for covering, a gesture that is still practiced in contemporary Christendom. The reality remains that though Adam and Eve did their best their ‘best’ was not good enough. The one adequate covering could only be provided through the ‘spilt blood’. Adam was justified only as he let go of his fig leaves and allowed his nakedness to be covered with the skin of the slain animal. By faith he embraced the promise of Gen. 3:15.
But what if Adam had refused the covering, insisting that he was the one who messed up and so he must do something to make up for his wrong, and appease God? Or, what if he accepted the covering then, believing that it was adequate, and that was all he needed? Believing he did not need to follow God’s instruction to offer burnt sacrifice outside the Garden of Eden? That he didn’t even need to instruct his off-springs of this necessity? As one imagine this scenario, it may be a bit easier to imagine what the contemporary life looks like when one accepts only the knowledge of Christ sacrifice for sins, and/or refusing to allow His Holy Spirit to lead in a life of continued obedience.
The significance of viewing the act of justification, and the process of sanctification through the lens of faith is that it illumines the understanding and helps one to conclude like Paul “ Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God, through Christ….I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me” (Rom. 5:1; Gal. 2:20).
Josiah, I like your thought-provoking questions in relation to those called to proclaim the gospel of Christ. Your reflection reminds me of one of the discussions in class last week, where Dr. Hanna reviewed the subject of ‘the remnant’. I liked the model he created, illustrating the outside-the-box idea of the remnant, encouraging us to think big when we think of the remnant. This idea is supported in John 10:16 “other sheep I have which are not of this fold, them also I must bring….” Yet there is still another passage in which I believe God is challenging us to think outside the box. “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts”. The truth is, God is not limited to our perceptions of the remnant, or the proclamation of the gospel.
Josiah Harry, the questions and comments you posted in your last blog are very thought provoking. We, SDA's, should consider re-evaluating our approach in how we spread the gospel, but be consistent in our core message. Thanks for your comments.
Jonathan Martin in your 2nd blog you made mentioned of your encounter with a non-SDA who held to a sinless lifestyle. You were amazed that this person was not an SDA, because it usually is SDA's who state such. I can attest to the fact that there are thousands of believers that hold to such view point. Ellen White herself had a similar experience, in her earlier years. In the 1800's, in the northern part of American, the "Holiness Movement" began. And there are still many denominations that hold to such belief and lifestyle. Just wanted to share. Good comments. Thanks for sharing your experience. Blessings
It is extremely important for Christians to have a full understanding about salvation. The bible clearly states that in Romans 5:17, “For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ”. To better understand salvation we need to study closely the nature of Christ in a very simple language. Christ’s nature on earth was both divine and human. In other words, when Jesus left heaven to come on earth his divinity has never ceased. But here is a great paradox that we cannot fully explain, which is a truth. Christ’s divinity did not die on the cross, only his human nature. God always used human beings level of understanding to communicate with them. Jesus took the human beings nature without ceasing being divine at the same time. Christ’s nature was obedient to the requirements of his divinity. I mean he was constantly in prayer, remained faithful to God’s commandments, and also remained in steady communion with the Holy Spirit. The reason that our salvation did jeopardize is because Christ’s human nature was in perfect communion with his divine nature. They dwelt together in perfect harmony. But the night at Gethsemane explained everything about both natures of Christ. For the very first time in his all existence Christ faced a horrible experience. Christ divinity was in certain way was separated of his human nature, and he felt it so hard. This is the reason he made a final call to his Father about the sacrifice he was about to do. The bible says that God has in horror sin; therefore, Christ’s divinity took literally in his shoulders the sins of the world [all human beings who accept Christ] begin to Adam and finish to the last person before his second coming.
Christ human nature was subject to all kind of temptations, but he did resist because of his constant communion with his Father. Satan did not invest all his power knowing that in vain he will attack Christ. He knew well the great possibility that he had to fail Christ human nature. He knew very well that God is a fair player. In other words, God will never cheat; therefore, he invested all his talents and his powers to fail Christ human nature in order to maintain his arguments against the Lord before the whole universe. Satan ultimate goal still now is to prove to the whole universe that God is not right in everything; therefore, if he can make Jesus to fail like Adam he will be able to prove to the whole universe that his accusation against God is right. Then God will accept him back in heaven, and will have also to reconsider his status. Thank God the faithfulness of Christ has defeated the evil attacks of the devil. This is the reason that salvation is only given through the acceptance of the faithfulness and righteousness of Christ that redeemed us from the bondage of the enemy of ages. This is the reason he said in Luke 22:42, “Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done”. Christ’s humanity could not make the salvation possible if his divinity was not in perfect communion with his humanity. Thank God today we can claim salvation for Christ took the penalty of death on the cross for us. Because of his faithfulness we can say that salvation is available to everyone.
In Romans 8:28-30 Paul establishes a model of salvation which begins with God’s foreknowledge then continues with predestination, calling, justification, and finally glorification. This pattern indicates a progression which begins and ends with God. One of the questions that arise is: can God reverse the actions of salvation? I believe this question is asked because of a wrong interpretation of the passage, and also a misunderstanding of the plan of salvation. There is the idea that when a sinner responds to God’s call, his past, present, and future guilt are cleared, thus it does not matter what he or she does the guilt has been removed already once and for all. Furthermore, some believe that daily sins are only confessed to maintain communion with Christ, not union. This union happened when they were either baptized or gave their heart to God. In other words they say that “sonship” is not affected by sin, and that like a father, God may chastise them, but never reject them or take away the salvation he already provided. The assumption is also made that if a person continues to live in sin either continually or sporadically, it is a demonstration that he or she was never saved in the first place. The texts used are Hebrews 12:8 “if you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons,” another text used to prove this idea is 1 John 3:9, “No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.” The conclusion drawn is that a believer may backslide but never become apostate. Based on these texts then the question remains, is salvation irreversible? What sin may cause loss of salvation? Another interesting question is; how does loss of salvation become known to an individual? I believe these statements and questions are the result of a literalistic interpretation of scripture, and a misunderstanding of the salvation process. First, God does not in any case reverse the process of salvation; He places the choices before the person who then is free to choose which way to go (either salvation or damnation). It is the person who is faced with the alternative to remain in God or not. The opportunity for salvation is available, the invitation is extended, and the provision for salvation has been made, but God will not force anyone. A clear example of this can be seen in the parable of the prodigal son. He decides to leave his home, his family and venture into the world; he lost his place in the family by choice. But here is where grace comes in, because just as the father in the parable was willing to receive his son back, so our heavenly Father is not only willing but able to take us back, even if we have decided to break away the union with him. After considering the question; is salvation irreversible? I believe that in a way it is not, because God has a plan and a hope for everyone to be saved, He has made provision for all to accept his calling and receive his righteousness. But on the other hand, salvation can be irreversible, because men can reject God’s calling, and also through a sinful lifestyle can forfeit God’s invitation to salvation, thus falling into condemnation. Even though nothing we can ever do can merit salvation, by our rejection, we can lose it. The provision is there, but if we don’t cooperate then salvation is ineffective.
Response to Edgar Alquinta Reflection # 2 Well..for me, the question you had seems practical and also interesting. While reading through the article I think that maybe the intriguing debate on Romans 7:7-25 which is whether to understand the status of Paul struggling with sin before the salvation or after the salvation could closely be related to your question.
Response to Edgar Alquinta Reflection # 2 And also, I think giving an example of prodigal son was really appropriate. It helped to understand more clearly about the concept that our rejection towards God could be the only way that we lost our ‘sonship’ since on the parable the father was always towards the son waiting and willing to forgive as he comes back and actually the choice was upon his son.(or the parable itself seems like focusing on the decision of the son). He could choose to make it back to his father or just choose to reject his will of going back to his father that actually came to his mind according to the understand of the sincerity and faithfulness of his father. (I would like to say the work of the Holy Spirit.)
One of the Ideas we have struggled a lot with is the concept of keeping the law vs. leaning on grace. There has been debate on whether keeping the law is legalism and whether leaning fully on grace is liberalism. There has been debate on where the balance between the two lies and what should be avoided. I think on this topic, there will never be a clear-cut agreement, but I do see a simple way of interpreting it based on Romans 7. This chapter illustrates the limitations of the law through marriage. Law states that when a woman gets married, she is bound by the law of marriage. If she were to marry another man while the first man is still alive, she would be an adulteress and be condemned under the law. However, if that first man dies, she is free to marry again because she has been released from that law. Expanding this from the basic concept would help a person come to this conclusion: anytime there is a physical death, there is an automatic release from physical law. Law is binding until death. Paul’s point is that Jesus died the physical death on the cross so that limitations of the law would no longer be binding and when we accept Jesus, the Gospel, and the gift of salvation, we partake in His physical death, releasing us from the limits of the law. “so my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ…(vs. 4) In the concept of the Christian walk, this is not just a single occurrence. Paul also teaches we must die daily (1 Cor. 15:31). Now, when you think about it, physical death does not take much human effort. You don’t need to work hard at it because it is a natural process. Likewise, spiritual death through Christ is something that cannot be based on works because it is a natural process, automatically occurring as you accept daily accept Gospel. Does this release us from keeping the law? Yes, it does… does this mean that we don’t keep the law? Absolutely not! Continued reading shows Paul saying that we “also died to the law through the body of Christ that we might belong to another. To him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.” Just as death to the law is a natural process in giving our lives to Christ, bearing good fruits is also natural. The good fruits are in accordance with the law. Therefore, even though we are not bound by the law, we keep the law as a natural fruitage of our relationship with God.
I congratulate you for the way you explained the power of the blood of Christ. I think it will always be a mystery why God allowed all of this to happen, when He knew before all of the details of history, present and future. My question to Dr Hanna is this, how effective is the literal blood of Christ for the plan of salvation? Can anyone be saved outside the blood of Christ? If NO, what about those who never have a chance to hear or know about the Christ sacrifice?
I appreciated the description of how Christ's divinity and humanity were in communion with one another. My question is, when we take on the nature of Christ, does this mean we must take part in his divine nature? or is it in communing (as a human) as he did when he was here on earth? and is this done through accepting the gift of salvation?
you have done well in painting the bigger picture of the "complex simplicity" of Salvation. I agree, the actual process of salvation is a simple one: asking and recieving grace on a daily level. The reason salvation is SO complex is because of the nature of its origin. It was not a simple thing for Christ to give up his divinity, live a sinless life, and recieve on himself the natural consequences of sin. Yet out of this complexity came the opportunity for grace, a freely and abundantly given gift.
I give you lots of credit for taking on the Romans 7 text while looking at the law/grace issue. I've been forced to preach on that before and it was one of the most confusing passages I've ever dealt with! Also, I appreciate your reminder of "dying daily"; it really connects well with the concept of justification as a process (and not just a single event). My one point of confusion is the statement that spiritual death is like physical death - a natural process. I disagree, because physical death is an unavoidable event which all creatures face (without divine intervention), whereas spiritual death is avoidable. No matter how strong God's calling might be, we still have the right to refuse God's gift of grace. Am I misunderstanding you?
Faith in the Power of the Cross-Future Past and Past and Future
After reading chapters 12 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to17 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, and the BHI article on “The Dynamics of Salvation” –an open letter to the church from Adventist Review, May 1979. –the subtopic “Grace and Faith” It is truly amazing how the cross or Jesus Christ reaches back into the past, before its existence and symbolize the saving grace of God in His Son’s death, so that all who that looks in anticipation for it is saved by it. In the same way the cross reaches into the future to save us who exist after the cross. All roads to salvation do lead to Calvary. On Calvary and Calvary only is man saved. Jesus said if “I be lifted up I will draw all man onto Him”. All man past and future, this power of the cross. There is some intrinsically significant about the cross of Jesus. It was not any man that died on it. It was the lamb that came to atone for our sins. He was truly the son of man. If the person who died on the cross was not Jesus Christ then our sins are not forgiven. So was it the Christ? Such a question has been asked for centuries now and I will not attempt the answer it from an historical or a philosophical point of view. However, from a theological prospective, I propose that is where faith comes in. This faith can only be achieved by believing. Who do we believe? We should believe in the God and His promises. The scripture has laid demonstrated God’s promises and it fulfillment to man over centuries. Form the blessing of Abraham to the fulfillment of His prophecy to Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and other prophets. God has been truthful and faithful to man. Therefore, the faith I would like to focus on is not God’s faith but our faith in Him.
Faith is needed on our part to begin to understand not only the cross, but the power in the cross. It power to cover past, present, and future sins, done my men before and after its existence. Christ tells us “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without me you can do nothing. (John 15:5) I will propose, without faith we can never understand God. Everything about God cannot be solved my mathematical calculation or scientific experiments. God is a mystery to us, because we are his creature and He is the creator. We will never understand His fully. Professor Hanna mentioned in class not only the need for us to have faith, but also the power that God impart through faith to us. God’s people before the cross needed to have faith looking to the unseeing cross in the future to save them. We in the present future must have faith that the cross and what happened on the cross in the past has the power to and will save us. Therefore faith is a primary factor to understand God’s grace, in justifying us and sanctifying us. Without faith we are lost. How do we obtain this faith? First we should understand that He is the one who give us this faith. He gives us through believing in His existence in our lives and the lives of other. He has shown us through His creation, His predictions coming through, and the working in our lives. He laid down enough evidence not only in the Bible but in our live of His existence. God continues to work this faith in us “both to will and to do his good pleasure: (Phil. 2:13) Because of this, we can believe and then thrust in the faith that He gives to us that He is real. We can now impart this faith to the cross and it power to save because we believe in God.
Thank you Alexis (response to his #2 posting). I agree that the law is not to done away with or ignored, because we are no longer under the law. The law still stands. We are just not subject to it because we are under grace; however, if we break the law under grace we are in violation with the law and should pay the penalty of breaking the law. So while we live under grace, let us honor and respect the law.
Response to Edgar Alquinta # 2 Is salvation irreversible? I will have to agree with you Edgar, it is not. Because of God love for us, he already decided to save us. Not because we are good or worthy of it, but because he created us out of love, redeemed us out of love, and still loves. Can a mother love be revoked for a child? Some might say yes other might say no. What is predominately acceptable in this statement is that a mother’s love goes far beyond human comprehension for her child. Even if the child is the worse criminal in the world, a mother most times sees him or her differently. If a human can have this love for another, what says God? Even if God could, and I believe he can reverse salvation, he would not because of the love for us, he won’t.
Response to Taylor’s Reflection # 2 Your treatment of this subject matter leads to me to the conclusion that there is something inherent in human beings which drives them to seek answers. Is it possible that in seeking after truth one cannot help but to employ reason and logic as tools which facilitate discovery of such truth? I do agree that certain ideas are beyond one’s comprehension; however, should that limitation deter one who is genuinely seeking after knowledge? I support your argument that one’s knowledge is indicative of the fact that there is still much to ascertain, and also shows the limitation of the said knowledge.
Questions relating to Dr. Hanna’s discussion on cross & blood Subsequent to seminary training which should have included learning the central logic of concepts such as literalistic and legalistic, what can be done by a pastor to control for misinterpretations among the members of his or her parish as it relates to biblical truths? Is it possible that the said concepts can distract one’s attention from looking at Christ as the interpretative center of the Bible? How much consensus is needed within the context of Adventism in order for the truth of God to triumph?
Response to Josiah Harry – Assignment #2 I liked the questions you raised concerning our role as a denomination among others who also feel called to spread the gospel to the world. Indeed we are to continue with our God given mission because we will be judged according to the light we have received, and I may add, to how effective or faithful was the church to shine this light. We are responsible for spreading this gospel of salvation in a contextualized way which will reach as many as possible without compromising Adventist hermeneutics; this is our challenge as pastors and leaders of this movement. Let us carry this banner of salvation forward to every nation and lift up Christ in everything we do.
Response to Paul Muniz – Blog # 2 I really appreciated Paul’s interest in digging deeper into the “universalism” theory and grasping the implications of it so well in his blog. Indeed the term universalism is a loaded one, and the first thing is to ask is how the author is using the term in how it affects his /her conclusions. Using the term is not “bad” as long as it is defined and limited by biblically. In this sense, I agree with Paul that Salvation is universally available! Yet not everyone will be saved, not because God rejects that person, but the contrary is the case. The cross extends the invitation to all humanity to come and receive the gift of eternal life purchased with the blood of the Savior, He did everything so that all have the same access, now it is up to us to accept or decline such wonderful gift.
Response to Enock O. Bigogo – Assignment #1 Great job in summarizing Rodriguez’s important points as presented on his article. It is true that a better understanding of the fall and Adam’s role in it will certainly help understand what Jesus did for us in order to have victory where Adam failed. Paul states that we all have sinned and therefore have no access to God on our own; this separation is a direct result of Adam’s choice. But Christ stepped in and he defeated sin, vindicated the human race. I believe that you will also benefit by doing a comparison between the “in Adam” and the “in Christ” motifs.
Response to Ghenadie Girleanu – First Reflection Indeed salvation is a complex concept, so much so, that we will spend the rest of eternity trying to understand all the implications of the plan of salvation. We may indeed find at first many contradictions, and unclear statements, but we must never forget that like Paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:12,” For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I shall know fully just as I also have been fully known.” You raise many important questions which now may seem impossible to answer, but praise God that all those questions will be answered by Christ himself. Let us continue to ask these difficult questions because God does not mind, in fact, he will grant us wisdom to discern in his word the answers that we need for now. Great work!
Thanks for pointing this out! I can see where the dying in Christ being a natural process could be confusing so let me clarify. Yes, spiritual death is an optional thing, but once you choose to follow Christ, what follows is that natural death in him. You don't have to work at it or do anything to recieve that death. However, if a person doesn't choose to follow Christ, he/she never spiritually "dies" to the law.
so, the only ones who really experience that natural spiritual death are the ones who give their lives over to Christ. my perspective was coming from those who are covered by the blood of the lamb.
Response to Vladimir’s Assignment # 4 Your reflection on the nature of Christ and salvation was written with both substantive and style. It is obvious that you put much work into developing your thoughts. In the matter of your introductory sentence, you used strong words such as extremely and full, and while I understand the basis of your claim, I am not sure that I support your argument about Christians having a “full” understanding about salvation, for the reason that it is not possible.
Response 3a In response to Edgar Alquinta Reflection 2, I agree with you that Salvation has been provisioned for us, and what an amazing news that is! I am glad that you mentioned that we can either accept it or forfeit it. Perhaps the idea will help people to turn away from intentionally sinning.
Response to White’s Assignment # 4 Thank you for developing your work on faith. I appreciate your use of symbolism in attempting to formulate your line of reasoning. As I considered your work, I wondered if the employment of such language reduces the saliency of your points. I am speaking from the perspective of someone who is not familiar with Christian jargons, such as power in the cross. The theme of your work seemed to be centered on the “power of the cross”. Is there such a thing? Could it be that the power to which you allude resides less in the symbol, and more in the person of Christ? Is the essence of salvation based on having faith in the power of an object?
I appreciated your honesty and humbleness in approaching the issue of faith. We are unable to understand it even with mathematical calculation or scientific experiments. God is mystery to us, and I agree with you that we need to just accept that fact. Praise God that we do not need to earn salvation, but God gives it to us.
i appreciated you tying all three dimensions of faith hope and love together, showing that they are not to be separated in the context of salvation. my question is, how do the three points apply from a practical manner. you have discussed the why of each, and I am curious to hear your opinions on the "how."
Edgar, I appreciate your approach to this topic. The majority of Christians today seem to focus on God's Fathership primarily and all other secondarily. I've never connected this unbalanced view to the concept of "once-saved-always-saved", but it has some merit. I really liked what you said there at the end, when you say that there's nothing we can do to earn our salvation but there's things we can do to lose it. I think of Adam & Eve - they had no control over being placed IN the garden, but they had total control as to being kicked OUT.
I did not mean at all that Christians have yet a full understanding about salvation. I just implicitly said that this is the purpose of God for us to have a strong understanding about his salvation. Although sister White even in heaven we will continue to study more about the salvation, but for now God's desire is we grasp its meaning. I believe that this is what makes some people in the church so inactive in doing the work of God. It is because they don't grasp yet the salvation that God has provided for them.
In response to Richard M. White - Assignment #4 I think the lessons from the previous classes were well summarized in your article. It truly helps me to recall what I have learned so far. I agree on the part you said about the kind of faith we should look for. I also think that the faith we should have is not only the faith considering the present time, the present spiritual status what we can see and can evaluate but the faith considering the future, the things which are invisible for now, such as our sanctified character in Christ and the hope for the spiritual transformation that eventually will be taken place on us by God.
Assignment # 3: Salvation = Grace + nothing Our salvation depends on God’s grace from beginning to end, there is nothing anyone can do merit God’s grace otherwise it will be a payment and not a gift. This last part is what many have issues dealing with, mainly because we were born “legalistic”, by this I mean we are used to earn everything, everything has a price and we expect God’s economy to be similar to ours, but praise be to God that this is not the case! It is not because of who I am, or what I do, but because of who He is and what He did for me. Grace is given to us because of the nature of God, the giver of grace, not because we are worthy to receive it. Our salvation is available only because God’s character is grace, he has always been a God of grace, and he extends his grace to all humanity. He acted in grace from the beginning, even before sin entered the universe, in other words, grace is not a reaction to the sin problem, instead God was proactive in dealing with sin through grace. So there was grace even before creation, there was grace during the Old Testament times, during the New Testament times, there is grace today, and grace will continue throughout eternity. Moreover, foreknowledge is based on grace, as is predestination, calling, justification, sanctification, and glorification. God works through grace in every stage so assure our salvation because there is nothing we can contribute. I want to share what I read in a recent article of Elder’s Digest concerning grace, the article mentioned that grace is expressed in many ways, some of which are: Common grace: the benevolence which is poured out upon all men regardless of their spiritual condition. Saving grace: provided by the cross of Calvary Securing grace: the manifestation of God’s benevolence by which Christians are kept secure. Salvation is obtained and maintained by grace alone. Sanctifying grace: is grace which brings growth, maturity, and progress in the process of becoming Christlike. Sustaining grace: grace given at special times of need, especially during adversity or suffering (2 Cor. 12:9). We can safely say that God is unreasonably generous to us because his grace abounds even where sin abounds! Our sinful actions only merit death, and even if we live perfect lives (which is impossible anyways) we would not merit salvation. Salvation is God’s gift which we should humbly receive. No one deserves eternal life, the Bible says there is no just person, we are by nature enemies of God, but grace reaches out, grace seeks, grace does not give up on us, and if we receive His grace and allow the transformation to take place in our lives, then, the result will be eternal life to continue enjoying His grace for eternity. In reality the closer we come to God, the more we realize we depend on His grace, not only for eternity, but to live our daily lives, His mercies are new to us every single morning, and every day we have the opportunity to depend on His grace to carry us through the day. And if we fail, there is God’s grace again to lift us up when we come with a repentant spirit and allow God to work in us. Moment by moment we need to depend in God, the moment we start depending on ourselves, we will miserably fail. The moment we begin to think that we can do anything to merit God’s grace, is the moment we loose it, not because God takes it away from us, but because we become proud and think we can “help” God in the process, yet we forget what the Bible says about this attitude, we read in 1 Peter 5:5, “for God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble.” Let us live humbly before the Lord, rejoicing in his grace, and sharing his love with others. For the full article see Elder’s Digest, July/September 2010, 10-11.
Response to Cesar Grassiotto – First Article I really enjoyed your perspective on how Ellen White assisted by the Holy Spirit, developed her particular view of salvation. Indeed, her position was different than those in leadership positions, who had been influenced by mainstream theology or literalistic understanding of scripture. Yet she was not harsh with them but demonstrated that she had received grace by being graceful to others, even those who disagreed with her position. God used her to affirm and guide the Adventist movement and her convictions about justification and sanctification. We can be thankful that God raised such a person to point to a better understanding of this important topic. It is now our turn as pastors to continue her legacy and preach the wonderful message of grace and salvation for this generation.
Response to Piasi Suleiman – Assignment # 1 Your reflections were very interesting and I agree with you completely. As pastors we will encounter members who either have doubts, or an agenda and we are to respond with wisdom and humility. Salvation and is a complex theme, and we will not have all the answers in this side of eternity. On the second issue you mentioned about Ellen White and how we either place her on a pedestal or want to discard everything she wrote, I agree with you that it is refreshing to see that she had her own struggles just like us, and that she depended on the same Holy Spirit we depend on, this gives me hope that I can also make a small difference in my area of ministry if I surrender my will, like she did. Thanks for the great work!
Reflection #3 With the fall of man into sin, there arose a situation that man by himself could not handle. From the beginning of it he began to run away from God – which made it worse. Man’s nature changed and since then his relationship was no longer in terms with his creator. The running away signified broken relationship between man and his maker. In effort to counter what they had done, Adam and Eve sought the cover of leaves. The leaves, as though signifying human effort to finding solution to the sin problem, could not last and God came to give the only remedy that would solve the sin complication. There was no way of escape except for the coming of the Savior. In his fallen state, man was in utter desperation that without God taking the initiative of looking for him, he would not find his way back to his creator. God came to Eden to look for man and this move indicates the initiative of God seeking to restore man and save him from sin and its consequence – namely, death. When our first parents sinned, the human race was condemned to die eternally and this desperate condition appealed to the sympathy of God. He then so loved the world that He gave His begotten son to die for the redemption of the lost world, fallen into hopelessness. But while we were still sinners, God sent His son to die for the helpless sinner – creating chance for salvation for those who would embrace it. While we sought Him not, God became compassionate to His fallen beings and started the errand of redeeming man, whoever much it would cost Him. True as it is that Christ paid the price for the redemption of man, He still has the challenge being rejected by the fallen beings. This is because He could not compel man to take the offer of salvation against his will. The death Christ on the cross of Calvary made provision to the salvation of every living soul, however, he needed to accept the gift of life. Here is the place of faith. Despite the fact that God has extended the offer of salvation to all, the effectiveness of it relies on the human response. If one accepts what grace has purchased for him/her, to them is accounted righteousness, but to them who reject Him who came that they may have life is the condemnation unto death. As discussed in class, the dying of the Son of God turned round the curse that was upon man due to his sin. Him who in Adam was predestined to die was again re-predestined in Christ to life eternal. This double predestination upon man as Dr. Hanna explains, is the circumstance that created room for the choice of man as to whether he will partake of eternal condemnation or life ever more. It now relies on what side man takes in the great controversy. There is utterly nothing that man can do to save himself but also true that there is something to be done in response to the free offer of salvation. Accepting it by faith means justification while disbelief and luck of faith leaves a person in the debt that has already been cleared. One has to make a choice.
Response to Alexis Rivera's reflion #2. I see you emphasizing the natural nature of the transformation when one is born into Christ. I agree with your thought in this line since there is no human effort that contributes anything save the cooperation that God needs in the process, which in itself is nothing more than permitting Him to work in us.
Response to Alexis Rivera's reflion #2. I see you emphasizing the natural nature of the transformation when one is born into Christ. I agree with your thought in this line since there is no human effort that contributes anything save the cooperation that God needs in the process, which in itself is nothing more than permitting Him to work in us.
Response to Alexis Edgar Alquinta reflion #3. I commend you for your reflection. In it I find a reminder to ourselves as adventists to beware of the legalistic tendency that may easily creep into our christian living. As you put it, true humility before God and constantly remembering that we only rely on grace and it alone is inevitably important.
Reflection no#3. The danger of a being striving to be a superman! When Jesus was in this world to redeem us he came in a very simple manner, just as a human baby actually he was extraordinary but in most cases he behaved very ordinary. He used to give ordinary examples to elaborate very extraordinary doctrine he always used ordinary parables to drive an extraordinary teaching .He chose simplicity though he could opt to be complex, he was God but he lowered himself man ,He knew very well the complex plan of salvation but he always never showed his geniusnes in a single day. I do understand very well that everybody want to post an extraordinary point of view to draw the attention of his/her colleagues or either to score an A in this course. But unfortunately as I was reading some blogs I got some how confused with very strange theologies I have never heard in the history of my salvation and my Christian walk, since I don’t want to attack anybody those who have read with keen eyes have seen what I’m talking a bout ,After reading the book Romans 10-12 ,Woodrow book on Ellen white on salvation, the materials on the BRI,the presentations in class and the comments Dr. Hanna emphasized this week plus my convictions, here are the points I picked up this week. ~Too much beating of the drum will break it[African saying]-we have discussed of this topic on salvation too much till some people have confused the entire sense of it’s meaning-.Dr Hanna said, every aspect of Jesus’s ministry was very important for our salvation, right from his work before the creation of the earth to his death on the cross and up to what he is now doing in heaven is so important. ~Understanding Ellen white more -to be honest I used to fear Ellen white so much in my earlier Christian life I used to think she was a perfectionists and most of her writings are there rebuke others and intimidating people by her visions and dreams. Actually that is why most Christians in Africa fear reading her books because they think that they will stress them on their prevailing sinful condition, I proved this when I was canvassing because I used to faced a big challenge on selling her books both to Adventists and non Adventist. But in the materials I read, I realized that she was weak and she was also depending on the grace of God and she was also continually pressing toward the mark. ~Salvation is God’s entire project-Romans 11:1 I asked whether God has rejected his people. By no means, verse 2, God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. God loves us that is why be has predestined our salvation ~when we accept Jesus we are made perfect by his grace hence counted righteous by his redeeming grace. For, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ. ~God has committed them all [the nation of Israel] {all people} to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all {nation of Israel}[all people] Romans 11:30-32,this was showed me the wisdom of God that surpassed all human understanding. ~Lastly but not least. If it means that by one man sin came to the world hence I sin because of another mans fault then I will not save myself except by except another man who is Jesus.
Reflection # 3. Being in the class for three weeks we heard the word perfection quite a few times. We also hear many explanations on how perfection works in our lives by Dr. Hanna, which I must admit have answered quite a few of my questions. There are a lot of people in our churches that really misunderstand this topic. Many of them leave the church because of that. While I was listening to the lectures and explanations by Dr. Hanna I was thinking what we could do for these people that fall into the trap of perfectionism. How can we minister to these people? Back in the country where I come from, when I was in my teen years, my father being the pastor of the church faced some tough challenges posted by a group of people that fell into this trap. They believed that they could become perfect here on earth and that the Adventist church is the Babylon and they also believed that they had to get as many people as possible out of Babylon, in other words out of Adventist church. Thaw was their mission. In a few months they got quite a few members to follow them. You can imagine that from that time on my father spent countless hours trying to deal with this problem. This problem became so big in my country that at one point the Conference representatives had to step in and discipline the people that were following this teaching. I know that this sounds a little bit harsh, but given the magnitude of the problem, they had to do that. This teaching was spreading through all the churches in Moldova and was getting a lot of interest. I was a young person at that time but I’ve participated in a few of those heated discussions on the topic of perfection and perfectionism. The interesting fact about this is that all of the arguments in favor of this theory are taken from Ellen White. I’ve read and reread all those quotes where she talks about perfection and I have to admit that sometimes I saw that those people had a point, but because I had my presuppositions that did not agree with this idea, I quickly brushed those thoughts away. In the class lectures and in the reading of the BRI articles and Whidden’s book I had some of the questions answered. Honestly, it s very hard to understand some of the quotes of Ellen White on this topic. I think that Whidden did a great job attempting to deal with these issues, but I think that all of the questions on this topic will entirely be answered only in heaven. I don’t think that we can comprehend all the aspects of perfection here on earth. I know that perfection on this side of glorification is impossible. It is clear from the Bible that he biblical use of the word “perfect” does not have in mind ultimate sinless perfection but spiritual maturity. If we could obtain perfection we would not need Jesus and that is the simplest and greatest proof for me that this idea is incorrect. I really agree with Dr. Hanna when he stresses the point that we need to distinguish between perfection and perfectionism. Another point that he stresses is that we need to talk about perfection and not to be afraid of it. Honestly, I always try to avoid it because it always comes to an argument when people are very passionate about this topic. But now I understand that we need to talk about it. We need to educate our members and teach them the correct understanding of perfection. I want to once again ask the question that I’ve asked in the beginning. If you have any thoughts please let me know. What can we do for these people that fall in the trap of perfectionism? Is there anything that we can do for them?
The way we phrase our statements in regards to theology holds a great importance. Over the past week, it appears as though some of my classmates have had a difficult time with phrasing the incarnation of Christ in an appropriate manner. Because we are limited to words as human beings, we have to realize that we cannot grasp the entire, mysterious subject in a singular phrase. Sometimes, we get caught up with semantics and simple ways of stating things. It would be easy for us to describe Christ as “completely man” or “completely God.” In actuality, He was both. God was manifested in the flesh. Divinity flashed through humanity. On those occasions, God showed who He was. With one hand He lays hold on humanity and with one hand He lays hold on divinity. Another question that deserves to be addressed is our Adventist position on perfectionism. The Bible and Ellen White both teach perfection. There are different phases of perfection. First, justification is perfection according to Doctor Hanna. Secondly, sanctification is another step in perfection. Translation is the final step in perfection. This is challenging to wrap your mind around, but I would like to give it a shot! When Christ reaches us, He has the divine responsibility and initiative to change our life’s path. I am grateful that I am not the same person that I was years ago, and I believe that I owe it to Jesus’ work in my life. This is a continual growth that I believe will never be complete. As I compare my actions continually with Christ’s, I will grow and become more like Him. Sanctification is the beautiful state of Christ’s covering that makes us perfect in the eyes of God. If it were not for sanctification, our works would appear to be lacking, and we would be deserving of the second death. But praise the Lord that “He who began a good work in ME will be faithful to complete it!” While I claim these levels of perfection, I am far from perfect.
Jared Miller Doctrine of Salvation Reflection #3 6/25/10
Reflections on What I have Read
I really appreciated Dr. Whidden’s chapter on the significance and meaning of Minneapolis and 1888. It seems that there is a lot of debate and various opinions about what 1888 was all about. I like how he emphasized that for Ellen White, 1888 was about justification by faith. People had “‘lost sight of Jesus. They needed to have their eyes directed to His divine person, His merits, and changeless love for the human family’” (89). I have not personally studied 1888 out thoroughly, so this chapter was helpful in seeing what they issues were, and what, for Ellen White, was the main issue. I think Whidden’s point that Ellen White supported some of Jones and Waggoner’s positions, but certainly not all of them, is vital—as they preached some heresy (Arianism, spiritual affinities, etc.). It seems that the “urgent need of Seventh-day Adventists in 1888 (and its immediate aftermath) was to understand that they were accepted by faith in the accounted merits of Christ—and not because of their good works” (91). Could this be the urgent need of SDAs in 2010 as well? To a large extent I think the answer is “Yes!” Additionally I would suggest our urgent need is the outpouring of the Holy Spirit that will inspire in us a mission to more fully share the three angels’ messages (which Ellen White said was the “third angel’s message in verity” (97). Another point I found very interesting is the fact that 45% of Ellen White’s writings on justification by faith were written from 1888 to 1892. Whidden puts it in perspective when he points out that that is like a pastor pastoring a church for 4 years and preaching nearly 50% of sermons on the same topic. It would take some serious research to pinpoint what percentage of her writingss were on what topic—but Whidden must have done some thorough research to be able to write that. The BRI article by Angel Rodriguez concerning 1 Timothy 4:10 was also good. I like how he looked at several interpretations of the text, and then showed the interpretation that has a biblical hermeneutic—namely that Paul isn’t suggesting that all humans will be saved, as that would contradict other Scriptures. His conclusion that what Jesus did on the cross made salvation available for everyone, but only those who believe in Him will be saved. Romans 12:3 fits in nicely with what Ellen White emphasized, saying that God has given everyone a portion of faith. God is responsible for our faith as well—so we’re saved by what God has done for us through and through—He gives us faith to believe in His saving grace—praise the Lord!
How What I have Read Relates to the Class Discussions
The section from Romans relates to what Dr. Hanna was saying about how salvation is all of God’s work, and that our works contribute nothing to our salvation. I also think the balanced view from Whidden matches the balance view of Dr. Hanna, specifically where he suggests that we won’t reach sinless perfectionism until Jesus’ comes. I like the text he quoted from Proverbs 24:16—that a righteous person may fall seven times, but will get back up again. So, righteous people may fall—like Peter did when he took his eyes off of Jesus, but just like Peter, when we call out to Jesus to save us—He’ll pick us up and save us. I appreciated how the opposite extreme, sinful presumption was addressed too—and the fact that we need to avoid both extremes.
Reflection 4a In response to piasi suleiman's Reflection no#3
I agree with you that perhaps we have focused so much on the doctrine of salvation that we might have confused ourselves. I appreciate your comment on Ellen White, and her personal side. Ellen White needed the grace of Christ as much as we need the grace of Christ. Ellen White is not a person that we should fear, but to gain encourgament from.
Response 4b In response to Vladimir Isaac's Assignment #4
I appreciated your thoughts on perfect union of Jesus' human and divine nature. I truly do believe that it was Jesus' complete dependence on God that carried Him through. It is also true with us; only when we completely depend on God by faith that we may become like Christ. Jesus did not come to show us how we may earn salvation, but how we may receive salvation by total dependence on God
The fifth chapter in Whidden’s book describes Ellen Whites view on Salvation in a larger view than I have previously understood it to mean. The title threw me for a loop with the title, “Salvation, the Great Controversy Theme, Closing Events, and the Law.” At first I thought Whidden was going to describe each element and put in together in a related but distant theme. Yet when I read this chapter, I was reminded of Professor Hanna’s explanation that Salvation is ‘multi-faceted because there are so many ways of explaining it.’ For a long time now, I was under the impression that Salvation could be described in only two ways: justification and sanctification. Not to get involved into the intricate details of these two terms which can lead to another conversation, but what I am saying is that Salvation is more than a two step process or explained definition; it’s life itself! I thought I had rid many elements of legalism in my mind but it continually hiccups when people ask me to define Salvation in these terms; this has lead me to give this black and white answer. On the opening sentence of chapter 5 it states, “The doctrine of salvation does not develop in splendid isolation from other doctrinal factors….these are (1) the great controversy theme (2) closing events, (3) law, (4) sin, especially the way it affects human nature, (5) understandings of the atonement, and (6) critical issues related to the nature of Christ (especially His humanity)” (p.35). This Adventist position is not legalistic in the slightest but gives a broader understanding of how salvation plays a role in our lives; how it is bigger than what we do and can even fathom! I deeply appreciate this paradigm shift because it allows me to surrender my ‘perfectionist’ mentality; that is, do everything and give credit to God because that’s what Christians do. Instead, I am indebted and grateful because God has given me the opportunity for partaking in the salvific process for humanity (including myself) only because of God’s omnipotent grace. I feel I can stand taller with the Adventist message in its wholistic approach because of the multi-faceted explanation of the role in Salvation History which I am a part of.
(3rd comment):Salvation facets in justification/sanctification intertwined with justice and mercy
In growing in the understanding of how Salvation is explained, I have come to see it in more than one facet; not only justification and sanctification but also justice and mercy intertwined. Sin is an inherent ‘gene’, as one might call it, that we all inherit because we are human. Since the fall of Adam was neither our direct choice nor privilege to discard, we are given the opportunity through the life, death, and resurrection of Christ to have eternal life. If we were to look at Salvation in these terms, it would be described as God’s grace in justice and mercy, not the typical one-liner ‘unmerited favor.’ To look at Salvation in these terms is a type of justification and sanctification. It is justice because we never originated sin as Adam did, so we are given the opportunity to experience a portion of the eternal life through justification perfection on earth. Yet, when we succumb to sin (and we do), we are given mercy to follow Jesus and resubmit ourselves to His divine plan and put on the ‘robe of righteousness’ (Hanna); this is the process of sanctification. In my understanding, we don’t aim to fall, but even if we do; it is still a process to reach that ‘continual growth in perfection.’ So sanctification can even be looked at as stages in itself because on the one hand we continually grow; on the other hand, we fall but get right back up. In other words, sanctification is the process of ‘gradual growth in perfection.’ This is not limited to a slow and steady incline but may also includes one of ‘ups-and-downs’ along the way.
403 comments:
1 – 200 of 403 Newer› Newest»Correct hermeneutics can go a long way into discovering the true meaning of a biblical text. This is also true for the writings of Ellen White. Our class discussion over the first couple days of class has illustrated the fact that the way we approach a text of scripture or phrase of Sister White’s writings determines whether or not we will correctly interpret it. We cannot separate the symbolic and the literal as potential meanings for a phrase.
There have been countless examples of people taking Ellen White’s books, articles, and letters and removing phrases from their proper contexts. This has landed many people into trouble when trying to prove points in their predetermined agenda. In Whidden’s book, he addresses the fact that many will draw a phrase out of context to prove their point, and use it to win arguments regarding their conclusions. With the vast amount of material that Ellen White has written, it is virtually possible to prove any point conceivable from a text of her writings. However, just because one phrase in the midst of millions appears to buttress one side does not necessarily mean that it is the overall stance that she takes on the theme in question.
When dealing with the concepts of perfection and salvation, Whidden seeks to show what Sister White’s overall themes were throughout her lifetime. This includes the writings that were published, the letters that she sent to various individuals, and her actions and words outside of her literary work. That gives us a broader, more holistic context with which we can evaluate her central themes.
We will be looking at the Adventist doctrine of salvation in this class, and it will be important for us to examine all of our class material in a proper context. This includes viewing texts in both a literal and symbolic fashion. Whidden has concluded through study of all of the elements of Ellen White’s life that her view on justification and perfection are closely related, and that they cannot be separated. It would be easy to take a statement out of context, and assume she leans one way or another in her viewpoint on salvation and justification, but I am looking forward to reading Whidden’s more holistic approach to her work by looking at the breadth of her life and teachings.
Name: Enock O. Bigogo
Reading Assignment 1.
Dates: June 8, 2010
Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of Ellen G.White (BRI Doc.)
The article by Angel M. Rodriguez highlights the following points:
1. Results of Adam’s fall
• Adam’s fall created a separation between God and man. This doesn’t mean that God ceased to love man but that sin made it impossible for His love to reach him.
• This fall lead to loss of privileges that were at man’s disposal before fall. These included the blocked way to the tree of life, loss of the “cloth of light” which signifies the holiness of God, and the ability to learn God’s character from nature.
• Adam’s sin opened the door into the slavery of sin. Man by himself could not any more be able to resist the temptations of Satan. Sinfulness became his nature and all his descendants with him.
• Death was the ultimate destiny of every seed of Adam, and misery was an inescapable part of life.
2. Human Solidarity and Adam
• Adam, by the fact that he was the father of all humanity, he became the head of the family and our representative.
• Through Adam the entire human race sinned, though not by practical participation as if the rest of humanity was mystically present in him. But since he could pass to his descendants only what he had/was, sinful nature became an inheritance for his race. They all faced the consequence of sin. Thereby, the fate of death wasn’t Adam’s but it became ours too.
• Without God’s intervention, there was no hope for the Adam. Only through the offer of salvation and the promise of the Messiah that he could find hope, and when Adam accepted this offer this hope opened a window of opportunity to his race to access salvation-hope.
3. What God did for Adam
• Through Christ, God broke the slavery of sin and in Christ the human race can overcome sin.
My comments:
This study in a way lays a broader foundation to the study of the book of Romans which has much to do with the remedy that God offers to the fallen humanity, namely, salvation. A better understanding of the nature and effect of Adam’s fall of course breaks the ground where the seed of “righteousness by faith” which equals salvation in this case, will grow. Unless this is understood, then the Savior’s redemptive work will not be appreciated as it ought, and will not find footing. This is to say that learning the challenge presented by the fall of Adam sheds great light to the need of the cross is discussed in Romans.
Reflection #1: Getting on at the ground level
One thing bugs me about many of our (that’s a corporate “our”, implicating the whole Church) presentations to outsiders is that we often start our study at an intermediate level. That is, we tend to assume that our contacts already know the basics of salvation and Christ, and it’s just our job to straighten out a few bad doctrines. While this might be true on some occasions, it’s important to go back to basics from time to time. Thankfully our lectures with Dr. Hanna, as well as my readings in Romans & Ellen White on Salvation, all seem to feel like a “fresh start” in our studies of the doctrine of salvation.
Paul opened Romans by setting a firm foundation upon which his audience could understand. Paul’s writings were based on the Old Testament, which was communicated by God through to His Prophets (v. 2). He doesn’t even assume that his audience knows the correct process of inspiration (having never met them). Paul introduces Jesus same way that Matthew did in his gospel, as a seed of David (v.3, compare to Matthew 1:1). The work of the Holy Spirit, a favorite topic for Paul’s more established churches (like Ephesus), is also introduced in a very basic way in (v.4). Paul builds his final foundation in verse 5, informing the Romans that grace and apostleship are both received from Jesus and that their result is obedience.
At this point, I should note that I’ve enjoyed Dr. Hanna’s presentations on the grace/works discussion. As a convert, perhaps I just don’t get why it’s so complicated for some people to get, but I applaud our professor’s noble determination to get back to basics. We are not saved by keeping the law, no matter how hard we try. In fact, the harder we try, the further short of the standard we fall. We should keep the law BECAUSE we’re saved, not in order to be saved. Yes, this includes Sabbath-keeping and health-message-adhering. Hitler was a vegetarian, and Jesus was not. (Oops, did I just say that out loud?) Our works are a result of receiving the gift of God’s love.
Dr. Whidden showed clearly how Ellen White fell into this trap early on in life. At just 9 years old, she felt the need to come to the Lord to confess her sins – a good thing – but just a few years later was taught by a well-intended William Miller that her life was still not up to Christ’s standards as the Second Coming approached – a bad thing. She felt that she “could never become worthy to be called a child of God” (1 T 15, 16; Whidden p. 16). She was terrified that she would be lost because of the constant emphasis on obedience to Christ without also teaching of Jesus’s grace and mercy. She found peace because of the camp meeting of a Methodist preacher (not an Adventist), and was baptized 5 years after she first started her journey towards the Lord.
Even as I read through the documents on salvation on the BRI website, I get the feeling that some of us have gone so deep in Scripture that we forget to come back to the surface for the basics. I was reading the article about the 1888 Message Study Committee’s presentation on universal justification, and I can’t help but wonder how they can still call themselves Adventist. They latch onto 2 texts in Romans that might possibly support their doctrine, but ignore the teaching of two CHAPTERS from the book of Revelation (19-20). Not everybody’s going to make it in the end. (This is also what happens when we start teaching from a literalistic point of view.)
It’s important to preach our message of Present Truth, of the unique revelations that the Lord has given to the Seventh-day Adventist people, and of similar intermediate and advanced topics. However, let us not forget to go back from time to time and get back to basics for the sake of both visitors and members alike. Remember, we’re all sinners who have fallen short of the glory of God (on our own). It is the gift of God, because of His love for us, which we might yet still be glorified in the name of our Lord and Savior.
I appreciate the comment pastor Paradise has made on this blog. I agree with your points that correct hermeneutic is crucial in interpreting texts, and as you have mentioned, it will be achieved by taking a holistic approach by means of looking at the context around the text.
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In response to Enock's post, I have to agree with him that the Angel Rodriguez article was a fine read. What I tend to see from the relationship between Christ and Adam is a fresh start, and almost an altogether new race. Through the substitution of Christ, we are essentially given a new future and a new path for history. Because the "slavery of sin" was broken, we are able to focus more clearly on redemption rather than the fall.
Brief Response on: "Getting on at the ground level"
I cannot agree more that we have often made a mistake of starting people at an intermediate level. I believe there is danger in making an assumption that people have the similar level of knowledge on any given subject. I also agree that we often make the mistake of taking plain truth, and trying to make it more complicated than it ought to be.
First Reflection by Ghenadie Girleanu.
There are some people that make Salvation to be too simplistic. They think of Salvation as just giving your heart to Jesus once and that is enough. After that you can do whatever you want and you will never loose your Salvation. In religious circles this is called “once saved, always saved.” But there are some people that go to the other extreme and make Salvation a very complicated concept. These are the Pharisees in Jesus’ time. These are the Pharisees in our time and in our churches today. I think as a church and as individuals we have been guilty of the second extreme. Not too many people in our churches follow the line of thinking of the theory “once saved, always saved,” but may live by the principle of legalism. So, the question that I have is, what is Salvation?
For me Salvation is neither simplistic nor complicated. Salvation for me is a complex concept. The complexity of Salvation is expressed through what is at stake. When we talk about Salvation everything is at stake, we are either in or out, either have eternal life, or eternal death. There is no middle ground in Salvation. Another factor that contributes to the complexity of Salvation is the fact that all the doctrines of the Bible are intertwined in this one doctrine. We cannot discuss Salvation without bringing up all the other doctrines. Woodrow Whidden shows how this principle works in the writings of Ellen White. The topic of Salvation cannot be disassociated from other doctrines. But the biggest factor that contributes to the complexity of the topic of Salvation is its apparent contradictions. When we talk about Salvation we find so many things that at the first glance contradict each other. Some examples are: faith vs. works; law vs. grace; justified freely vs. bought by a price; justified by doing of the law vs. justified apart from the law; free will vs. predestination.
I would like to shortly touch here on the idea of the free will. How does the free will work in the process of Salvation? It is very interesting to note that from the beginning God created us with the ability to choose. This was the greatest risk that God overtook. When God gave us the power of the free will He limited Himself. God cannot force us to choose Him. After sin our free will has been corrupted. In our own strength we cannot choose what is good. Ellen White supports this idea that God never forces our will. The question that rises here is, if God never forces our will, and if our will is so deprived that we could never choose what is good, then how can we be saved? If we are not able to choose on our own to be saved and at the same time God doesn’t force us to choose salvation, the question is, what are the chances for us to be saved? Is there a middle ground between these two?
I think that the answer is found in the idea of the grace of God. Our free will is deprived and that is why we cannot choose on our own to be saved, but the grace of God gives us the ability to be able to choose Christ. It is God’s initiative in Salvation. If it wasn’t for grace, we would be alive, but condemned to death, without a chance of Salvation. I think that Ephesians 2:8-10 says it best, “8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” As we see, faith is important as well as the works, but Salvation is through grace of God. Ellen White supports this idea in her writings. She says in the book “Counsels to Parents, Teachers, and Students” on page 544, “We are unable of ourselves to pursue a right course. It is only by the grace of God, combined with the most earnest effort on our part, that we can gain the victory.” I think this quote and the text in Ephesians provide a very good middle ground for the dilemma that I described at the end of the previous paragraph.
In class, we have spent quite a bit of time discussing the balance, or tension, between law and grace. This is a necessary discussion, especially in a class that addresses the doctrine of salvation. As Adventists, this discussion is even more necessary given our historical emphasis on the law. Since both law and grace are emphasized in scripture, we need to emphasize both teachings if we are truly going to be a people of the Book. And if we are going to have a proper, and Biblically based, understanding of salvation, we cannot afford to disregard an understating of the relationship between law and grace.
I believe that most of the confusion is caused by a superficial reading of passages in scripture that emphasize, seemingly to the extreme, either law or grace. Paul, for example, declares: “For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous” (Romans 2:8). Yet in another place Paul, just as emphatically, declares: “For it is by grace you have been saved, though faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” (Ephesians 2:8, 9).
Anyone reading these passages, or other passages like them, can become easily confused. If a person is saved by grace, then what role does the law play? And if I try to keep the law, then where does grace come in? It is almost as if the Bible switches back and forth between the requirements. What are we to do with these passages, and how are we to balance them in our understanding of salvation?
I propose that the key to understanding these passages, and therefore the balance between law and grace, is attained when a person considers the recipients of these texts. It is important to realize that “rules” are not made in a vacuum. Statements, especially strong ones, are not conjured up without reason. For example, most households do not put up a sign in their bathroom that reads: “The person that uses up the toilet paper must replace it.” For most households this practice is assumed. But perhaps in a particular household this has become a significant problem. People are constantly using up the toilet paper without replacing it. It would make sense, then, to put up a sign that would remind the forgetful individuals.
Likewise, the authors of the books of the Bible did not write in a vacuum. In the Scriptures we have several books, written by several individuals, addressed to specific people. If a prophet knew that a particular problem existed among a certain group, then that prophet would address that problem. If the problem were legalism, then the prophet would need to emphasize grace. If the problem were lawlessness, then the prophet would emphasize the law. This, then, would bring about the desired balance between the two.
This works in our personal lives as well. If we have a tendency to be more grace oriented, then we need strong statements about the law to keep us balanced. A reminder of the duty we need to perform becomes necessary. More statements about grace would continue to push us in the wrong direction. Instead, we need statements that will pull us back to the center. This is why the Bible is written the way it is. It is designed to keep us centered. It will only work, however, if we take the bible in its entirety. If we avoid the statements that emphasize law, the Bible looses its ability to keep us balanced.
The key for understanding these passages, then, is in the recipient of the message. As long as we understand that grace needs to be emphasized where law abounds, and law needs to be emphasized where grace abounds, we should be able to appreciate these beautiful statements in scripture. And if we allow the Holy Spirit to inspect our hearts and reveal to us which side we lean toward the most, we will know which passages to emphasize in our own lives.
In response to Jonathan's post I would like to say that I completely agree with the idea that the key to understanding the passages that have an apparent contradiction or tension is by considering the recipients of the text in question. I think that Dr. Hannah said it right in the beginning of our class that we need to read between the lines of Apostle Paul's writings if we want to understand them. This is not an easy task and it should be done with much prayer, because otherwise we can read much more into the text than we should.
I really appreciate the comments made by Paradise in his post about the need for correct hermeneutics in reading the Scriptures as well as the writings of Ellen White. I think that we are on a right track in this class as well as in other classes when we apply a holistic approach to the Scriptures and the writings of Ellen White. I wish we can teach our members that use the Writings of Ellen White as a weapon of mass destruction to apply the same approach.
Reflection #2
On: Doctrine of Universal “Legal” Justification. By Larry J. Kane
This doctrine is based on wrong theology because the scriptures sited and construed to support it are misinterpreted.
• Romans 3:23,24
When read in the immediate and broader context, these verses deal with justification by faith (on condition of faith), which in not universal and unconditional. As free as the gift of salvation is, it has to be accepted by faith or it’s lost. True as it is that through one man(Adam)all were counted sinners and through Christ all have access to eternal salvation, scripture points that justification comes to those who receive it by faith.
• Romans 5:12-18
Read on the background of Romans chapter 3 shows that justification dealt with is by faith. If chapter 5:18 is understood to mean universal justification(unconditional justification) it conflicts with Romans 8:1 where only those in Christ are shown to be justified by Christ’s righteousness.
The 1888 Message Study Committee understood that those “in Christ” referred to all people regardless of whether they believe or not. However, this is not correct since it’s only those who believe that have escaped condemnation and those who don’t are condemned (John 3:18; 5:24.)
Dr. Waggoner understood scripture so and thereby tied free justification to the condition of faith. On the other hand, E.G. White also illustrates that there is justification only in Christ’s atoning sacrifice but which is received on condition –faith in Christ. She further knew of justification by faith as the only biblical one and that it included the imputed and imparted elements.
It’s true that if Christ’s righteousness is imputed to all, regardless of their believing or not, Christ would not have said that “he who believes will be saved”. And since there isn’t any other verse that gives foundation to the doctrine of Universal legal justification, other than those sighted above, its not safe to propagate what will contradict the rest of scripture.
This article by Larry J. Kane shed good light on the study of Romans and the understanding of justification at large.
Assign no #1
My reflection for this week is majorly going to be based on the introduction and of the course by Dr.Hanna and the materials I read in the BRI,whidden Woodrow’s book Ellen white on salvation and the bible the book of Romans chap. 1-3.As any other bible scholar I have got myself in a situation where I cannot distinguish between the symbolic and literal meaning of the scripture. This keeps me wondering what meaning is applicable in each particular situation, but most of my answers were being answered within the class discussion. The other issue that was so important for me to me was the answers from Dr.hanna concerning the emerged question on what should a pastor do in situation where the pastor has met to conservatives and the liberals in the church how should he bring unity between the two extremes, hence integrity and wisdom from above were was suggested to be the best model to handle this situation of course not forgetting that the answerers should be from the final authority the bible,
On the second part of this paper, I read on how Ellen white was also struggling with how she will get the inner peace and her assurance for salvation .The only picture we used to have concerning her is that she was perfect ,having visions and dream for anything dilemma she could face but it took her time also to overcome some of the internal conflicts of what we possessed from our first parents a dam and eve, secondly most denominations perceive we as the Adventist base our salvation on works but as I was reading this materials I discovered that both the writings of Ellen G. white, the bible, and the materials I read from the BRI did not mention anything like our perfection will earn us salvation. That is why Paul was saying in the book of Romans 1:8 am not a shamed of the gospel for it is a power of God that brings a salvation to anyone who believes. The third issue was about what I read about sin.
The impact of sin was so high that it brought, in that its impact from the time it was committed to the present is so catastrophic .The man whom God himself to be his own turns to be his own enemy, but see how much God loved us that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believed should not perish but have eternal life. Jesus came to bridge the gap that nobody could ever bridge. The fourth aspect which also came along was of the laws [commandments} hence can one be saved by simply keeping the commandments? The answer is no. though the commandments reflect the character of character of God, they cannot save anybody.
Lastly this week, I saw in a new dimension on how the gospel breaks the barriers between the circumcised and the uncircumcised, to the Jews and to the gentiles, once we are in Christ, we have already we received a common circumcision, born as children of God Jesus ‘s blood on the cross brought salvation to the entire world, thus should be the centre of the doctrine of salvation.
After reading Romans Chapters 1-4, Chapters 1-4 in the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II and the four articles, Primacy of the Gospel Committee-Report, Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E.G. White, Salvation by Faith, and Some Problems with Legal universal justification, from BRI, my insight on Salvation and God’s offer to save man from their sins has become a little clearer.
Romans 1:16, states that salvation is offered to everyone. In order to understand and possible come up with some understanding of this offer, I decided to equate the offer of Salvation to the offer in a business contract. In order to have a business contract there needs to be an offer and an acceptance. If there is an offer, but no acceptance, a contract is not established. The offer, in the case of salvation, is Jesus Christ death on Calvary for our sins. The offer must also have an offerer, the one who gives the offer. In case of Salvation, God is the offerer. He offered His son, Jesus Christ as atonement, forgiveness, of our sins. Mankind is then the offeree, the one the offer is directed to and the one who can accept or reject the offer. If mankind accepts the offer then Salvation belongs to him/her. If he/she rejects the offer then he/she suffers the consequences of rejecting the offer, which is eternal death.
My first question is, why would man reject the offer? I can only go back and identify a few reasons why someone would reject a business offer.
1. First they might not have confident (faith) in the offerer or do not know the offerer.
2. Secondly, the offer might be too good to be true, hence, the offeree is skeptical and do not believe the offer to be genuine.
3. Next, the offeree might not know that he/she needed the offer, therefore they ignorant the deal.
4. The offeree might think that the offer is open indefinitely and they can accept the offer any time they are ready to do so.
Rejecting the offer of salvation carries with it a great penalty. Since accepting the offer saves us form sin rejecting the offer leads to the rewards of sin which is eternal death. “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 6:23.
If it is skepticism, doubt, or fear that makes offeree uncertainty of the offer of the offerer, then he/she should investigate the evidence of the offer and the offeree before arriving at a foregone conclusion. If there is validity in the offer and offerer then is might seem wise to accept the offer. Unfortunately, ever if the evidences are overwhelming, some might accept the offer and other will still reject it.
The next question, why would mankind reject the free gift of salvation? I will not try and have a definitive answer, but only to list only two of the reasons they might reject the offer.
1. They are not fully convinced of the freeness of the gift, and believe that there is some work involved on their part before they can accept the gift. The caution here is that not all mystery of this free gift of salvation is known and it might never be known until we reach to heaven. Therefore a level of faith is needed. Mankind has to have some believe in the offer and offeree, and have the faith to accept the offer ever if they are not fully clear on why the offer is made or if they need it.
2. Mankind might believe in the offer, but would like to spend a little more time in the world and accept the offer later. This is a false sense of hope. The offerer has the right and can withdraw the offer. When this happen, even if the offeree then accepts the offer it is too late, the offer is off the table. Probation for man is not forever it will come to a close and the offer of salvation will be over.
The offer of salvation is on the table for man but acceptance is needed to seal the deal for eternal life.
Respond to Michael’s assign no 1.
I just wanted to thank Michael for his contribution to this discussion on his comment on starting with complications till we confuse the whole concept of what God intends us to learn, I will support him with words from Ellen white in the process of reading his the materials we were assigned to read which impressed ,the prophetess was saying that it is time to start learning new things and unlearn something’s too which new had learned before which we were not supposed to learn.
I could not agree with Jonathan more. We need a balance when reading the scriptures, and also to understand the context in which the writings were made, along with the person the comments were made to and for what reasons. Too often scriptures are taken out of content to bring about validity in the speakers point and not what the author of the text intended. Thanks Jonathan.
I also read this article and found it fascinating. Thank to Enock to take the comment on the issue of Adam and his fallen humanity. I do agree with Enock on that we need to understand and appreciate the Savior’s redemptive work, however I am not clear on the statement that “righteousness by faith” equals salvation. Is it that admitting that we are sinners and accepting salvation by faith which leads to righteousness?
Thanks for your response.
Reading Assignment #1
Name : Hyo Won
Date : Jun 10, 2010
Title : Living by faith & living by law
(Rm 1:17) For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written： "The righteous will live by faith."(NIV)
(Hab 2:4) "See, he is puffed up; his desires are not upright--but the righteous will live by his faith--
(NIV)
“Living by faith”
This has been what I think over since I started my ministry as a school chaplain as well as I asked in the class a few days ago. I am sure that this is the essence of Christianity to be a true Christian. Paul used this verse from the book of Habakkuk (2:4), The Old Testament, as we know the time of Habakkuk was so confusing because more wicked Babylonians than the Jewish doing evil usurped the Jewish people God had selected. The prophet, Habakkuk struggled with voice from the above, finally found what God had meant, and said ‘the righteous will live by his faith’.
I would like to say about ‘living by faith and living by law’, ask ‘which is easier in our daily life?’
Some say that living by law is far easier than that by faith. I fully agree with him from time to time though I did not learn like that. What is happening in my mind? I was messed up as a pastor, a Christian beforehand. The one who says to me about living by law keeps on saying few reasons why living by law is easier than living by faith. There are couples of things he mention. The one is that if we live by law we can feel possible for us to do by ourselves, kind of pride to do, sense of accomplishment. The other is being comfortable, that is, easiness which comes from the possibility mentioned above for the first emotion. I guess these are from the mind at which people don’t know the grace God has granted.
However, I believe ‘as it is written the righteous will live by faith’.
I believe because The Bible says so, even living by law might be easy.
I believe because I am feeling love from The Lord as I live by faith. I know faith is always from relationship made from love. If there is no relationship between The Lord and us, How come He let us follow Him, believe Him, and even trust Him?
I believe because of His grace which is something to do with faith very much. It is easy for me to think of faith in God’s grace. Once I think His grace in my life even before, I really want to follow Him, trust Him as well.
Thank you, Richard White, for your reflection regarding the free gift of Salvation. One of the keys to your presentation was the fact that it is almost necessary to recognize God's gift as free. This is a very important thing to remember in regards to Salvation.
Response for Piasi Suleiman's Assm #1(from Hyo Won)
I agree with Piasi Suleiman that Ellen White was in trouble for making innner peace, comfortness between justification and sanctification obviously in whidden's book. As a christian(before a adventist), unless there is inner peace, joy, calmness how are we called a real christian? I was just restored through whidden's book mentioning Ellen white was in trouble for peace,namely, I had a hope. I think it's a good point that Piasi Suleiman wrote.
Jared Miller Doctrine of Salvation
Reflection #1 6/11/10
Reflections on What I have Read
I have enjoyed the first section Whidden’s book. He focused on Ellen White’s spiritual and theological development. From the first chapter Whidden attempts, I think successfully, to show both sides of Ellen White’s theology, and shows that her views were balanced and Biblical. I think Whidden is correct to suggest that as Ellen White grew in her walk with God that she saw “sanctification was not the work of a moment, but that of a lifetime” (22).
In his chapter about the decade before 1888, Whidden again focused on the balance Ellen White had concerning justification and perfection. One example I had not read about before was one from 1878 when Elder Brown attacked Ellen White as being “‘All law, law; she believes that we must be saved by the law…’” (25). Ellen White wrote a very clear response to Brown’s attack by saying, “‘That is a false statement. Mrs. White has never occupied that position. . . .’” (25). She went on to affirm that no one is saved by keeping the law (legalism), but at the same time those who are truly saved will believe in Christ and do the works of Christ (keep the law). She clearly relied on Jesus Christ for salvation, not the keeping of the law. She called people to follow Jesus as their Savior, and as a result of being saved they would keep God’s law out of love for Him.
Additionally, Whidden referred to the 1883 General Conference Session as the “‘Minneapolis before Minneapolis’” (27). Ellen White’s sermons were focused on “‘pardon and justification’” (27). Whidden suggests her view sharpened to a more Lutheran view of justification by faith alone, a view she probably learned about as she studied Reformation history in the writing of Spirit of Prophecy, Vol. 4, which of course eventually adapted into The Great Controversy. I am thankful for this information, and hope to read some of those sermons in the future.
Lastly, I appreciated the fourth chapter which showed James White, in the years before his death, having a stronger focus on Jesus. Clearly James and Ellen’s marriage was not perfect, as neither of them were perfect. After giving some examples of Ellen White admitting her imperfection, Whidden suggests that “she thought the attitude of the ‘perfect’ would be: always humble, chastened by revelations of fallibility, but eager to press on in the race for the high goal of practical righteousness” (31).
How What I have Read Relates to the Class Discussions
Much of this material fits nicely with what we have talked about in class. Ellen White saw sanctification as a continual process, just as Dr. Hanna has quoted the words of a hymn, “I’m pressing on the upward way, new heights I’m gaining every day, still praying as I onward bound, ‘Lord, plant my feet on higher ground.’” As Christians, we need to remember that we have not “arrived” spiritually—we all need to continually grow in the knowledge and grace of God (2 Peter 3:18).
Whidden has tried to show the balance of Ellen White’s views, and I think our class discussions have tried to find balance between justification and sanctification. One message that I have taken from our discussion so far is that we are not saved by keeping the law, rather we are saved by Jesus, and as a result of being saved and forgiven, we keep His law out of love for Him.
Respond to Michael taylor's reflection on 'Getting on at the ground level'(from Hyo Won)
I'm thankful for this reflection that Michael wrote in deep thought.
I had a experience when I served some church as a pastor. Oneday air conditioner in church was something wrong with control box, finally not working well, thought over whether or not I call to repairman, decided to switch off and on again, you know what, It worked well. Starting from the ground level is the most important thing when we deal with salvation.
Hopefully in class each theme we are dealing would in detail step by step.
Pastor Paradise makes an excellent point about how Mrs. White’s writings should be used. Indeed, many people have misused her writings. Instead of taking her statements out of context and creating a fanatical doctrine, we must look at all of what she said about a certain topic, and then we can come to an accurate conclusion. I also agree that correct hermeneutics are crucial to faithfully interpreting the Biblical text. Unfortunately, throughout Christianity it seems that every denomination has different hermeneutics, and thus come to various conclusions. All the more reason to be diligent in letting the Bible interpret itself.
I appreciate Pastor Taylor’s emphasis of getting back to the basics of the Bible for the sake of visitors and members alike. In my first district before coming here, I preached a lot of sermons on the basics of loving one another to a divided church. I also appreciated his brief look at the first part of Romans 1, showing that Paul carefully crafted this message to the Romans—even in his introductory passages. We, as Pr. Taylor suggested, need to carefully craft messages/Bible studies to people of all levels: basic, intermediate, advanced.
Comment to Jared miller assign no #1.
I just wanted to appreciate your contribution towards our ongoing discussion in our doctrine of salvation class. Particularly on the onward spiritual growth of Ellen white, the point that strike my mind was that even Ellen white’s full understanding of the some doctrinal issues was not just instant but a process ,this state was endorsed by Dr, Hanna that though he was seems to grow in the church, he had been wrestling with some issues during his humble beginning on his Christian journey. but with time he got a full understanding of what he was wrestling with.
In the book of Whidden II, Ellen White on salvation I have benefited from the statement of Mrs. Elle White when she says that “We have always taken the position that there was no power in the law to save a single transgressor of the law. Christ did not come to excuse sin, nor to justify a sinner while he continued to transgress that law. During our class discussion the same statement was echoed by our professor that “We do not obey the law of God in order to be saved, for we are already saved by being rooted in Christ who is the fulfillment of the law.
We are justified only by the merits of Christ and such a faith will never excuse transgression. In the book of Romans 3:31 Paul says that “Now a righteousness from God apart from the law, has been made known, to which the law and prophets testify.” This righteousness of God is manifested on his gift of eternal life who is Jesus Christ the savior of the world.
We rejoice that we have faith that takes hold of the promises of God that works by love and sanctifies the soul. I agree with Ellen G. White’s statement that justification means pardon and forgiveness. It is only through the sacrificial death of Christ as our substitute that there is hope for the human race.
I do believe that the objective work of salvation and redemption that Christ has performed on behalf of the human race has made it possible for all of us to return to God and acknowledge Christ as our rightful owner who can deliver us from the bondage and power of Satan.
Friends, the story of our salvation is inexhaustible. It exposes the mystery of evil and opens the mystery of the cross through which the divine love of God has conquered evil forever and ever
Hi brother Jared Miller, your reflection is good and well detailled. Your undrestanding about keeping the law and justification is good,clear and simple.
First reflection by Vladimir Isaac
Was Jesus like the Adam before and after the fall?
This is a serious topic, or theological approach that everyone who believes in God needs to understand very well not for their salvation, but to have a strong understanding concerning the cosmic battle that exists between good and evil. We all know that God in the beginning creates everything perfect, except that death was not there yet. In other words, man was created to live not to die. Since after Adam’s sin we all are subject to death. We can say that since then every step man makes in life is going toward death. What kind of death are we going toward to as Christians? We give praise to the Lord for he bears our sins on his shoulder by being like Adam. I am quoting Paul in Romans 5: 2 saying, “Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned.” Now, the question we need to raise was Jesus like Adam before and after the fall?
Although the book of Isaiah depicted Jesus as one without sin, He was definitely like Adam before the fall. Since Adam failed to follow God’s word because of his submission to the devil, Jesus has to come to overcome where Adam was not able to stand firm before the devil. Therefore, in order to defeat Satan not only on earth, but also definitely Jesus has to come and take the image or character of the Adam before the fall in order to prove to all human beings that God’s law is not impossible, arbitrary, and exaggerated. All it takes is a requirement of a total submission to his words. This is the reason that Jesus was tested in many ways by the devil, and even more than Adam did. In other words, God’s law can be observed if only if we stay attached with the Holy Spirit. Hence, the reason that Satan persisted so much to have Jesus failed like Adam is because he was looking for more elements of accusation against God before the universe. At the other hand, God has to show to the universe that he is a fair God. Indeed, the throne of God is rested upon two great foundations, justice and love. In order to demonstrate that, God sent Jesus to take the nature that Adam had before the fall. But, how about the one after the fall?
How come Jesus can be like the Adam after the fall since he is God? I believe that this one of the greatest paradoxes that all human beings have to accept it as it is. But, let try to figure out how come Jesus can be considered as a sinner. The response is simple then. The only and ultimate way for Jesus to fulfill the word of the Father he has to become a sinner in taking the sins of all human beings who accept to do the will of the Father. There is one text that supports the reason that Jesus took that forms or image is Romans 6: 23, “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” In other for God to put an end in the great battle existed between good and evil Jesus has to take the sins of everyone who accepts to follow him, to die on the cross on Calvary, to bury sin on the ground, and to give new life to each of us.
Michael Taylor's reflection of going back to the basics in his understanding about God's righteousness and the law seems to be a subject that continues to generate intense interest and concern among Christians. There is need for more insight on what God has done for us that which the law could not do. Christ is the answer but not the law.
Response to Brother White comment
Brother White I am completely agreed with you concerning the way we take lightly the great gift of God about salvation. And you know what it is very sad to see even among of us there is a big contrast about that offer. If we can fully understand the concept of the gift of salvation that God offers to us we will become automatically better Christians, and fulfill his work with great power [Holy Spirit].
In response to Ghenadie Girleanu's comment
You got it well brother Ghenadie. We have to work definitely with these two extreme groups of people that misunderstand the salvation of God. The first group as you mentioned is the group of people who take it lightly in thinking that once accept Christ they do not have to do anything because they are saved. In the other hand, the second group, considered more legalistic, have made salvation so hard, difficult, and impossible for others to come to Christ, and to join the family of Christ.
I found it good to read Pastor Jared Miller's reflection. Specifically, on the issue whether E.G.White was "a legalist", I believe the much I have read her works, I havent seen legalism being reflected. Instead I see more and more of justification by faith in Christ's merits.
Nyarige Samuel Juma
Reflection No.1
How and when one is saved seems to be the underlying questions in the class discussions. For a long time, the church has either individually or collectively wrestled with the noble idea of interpreting the doctrine of salvation or ended at coming up with various schools of thought. All along I think there has been an imbalance in explaining salvation because we seem to be elevating one element at the expense of several others that need as much attention. Partly, there has been lack of proper technical know-how in approaching the issue maybe because of spelled doctrinal structures or unwillingness to change our personal views. Whidden II in his book “Ellen White on salvation offers excellent wisdom that, “a delicate and an abiding balance”, are necessary when approaching the idea of salvation in relation to others. The BRI documents also shed more light on the theme by looking at salvation broadly.
The discussions in class and the reading that I have already done leaves me with the impression that something might be amiss in the way we approach the issue of salvation in relation to our theological and doctrinal understanding as a “church”. The main problem does not seem to lie with the message, authors, and recipients of salvation but the approach that we give to it. The challenge that the church is likely to face is how to balance the interpretation of salvation, doctrines, and theology without going overboard in either way. Through Professor Hannah and fellow class mates I see some implicit approaches that can be useful from Paul’s writings. For us to be well equipped, we need to fully understand the true nature of man and the ultimate goal of salvation. RBI documents clearly depict the state of humanity, “so humanity is in a desperate condition. All our plans, hopes, and efforts are corrupted by our sinfulness. Individually and collectively we stand condemned for what we have done and for what we are, for the sprit of rebellion against God that is part of us, for all our all-encompassing alienation and sin( Rom.5:18 ; Steps to Christ pp.19-25)”.
God, however, through his sovereignty that is beyond our comprehension took the initiative to grant humanity deliverance from this predicament in that “… while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” Rom. 5:8. This will have to definitely go beyond our doctrinal, theological periscopes. Lack of balanced understanding is likely to lead us overboard on either side. The best example where the wrong interpretation has ever existed is the relationship between the law and grace in relation to salvation. As soon as we talk of grace as God’s favor extended to save sinful humanity, the law comes in as the means of directions us to see ourselves truly in terms of how much we lack to obtain this grace. In order to get a proper understanding of Paul’s writings in relation to salvation, we ought to combine the literal and symbolic dimensions in our reading and interpretation of scriptures.
Beyond combining grace and the law, there is need to put each in its proper perspective. Grace must be understood as the act of God. He in his own will implicitly offer it through the death of Christ on the cross (Rom 1:5). Man does not simply have any part in influencing or making it void whether he accepts or rejects its offer. If at all man has to be part to this grace then there must be a connection with God which of course will come through the impression of the Holy Ghost. Therefore man’s greatest duty is to accept the grace that is already freely offered. On the other hand, the law serves as a mirror revealing the state of humanity in relation to the holy standard of God. Keeping it for the purpose of securing perfection of character sincerely looses its meaning. However, when, kept within the right periscopes of spiritual guidance in understanding the will of God in our lives, puts it in its right position in regard to salvation. Paul implicitly reveals that grace (Christ) enables us to keep the law (Titus 2:11-13).
Brother Thomas Oyaro's reading reflects once more on the doctrine of justification by faith as depicted in the life of E.G. White. Indeed, Ellen White's writings emphasizes the way of salvation as being no other than relying on Christ's righteousness.
This is the teaching is repeatedly seen in the book of Romans.
Reflection Paper #1
A Balanced Understanding of Scripture
The matter of salvation is not lightly regarded by many Christian. For this reason different doctrines and ideologies cherished by Christians of various denominations continue to baffle, and console many. Paul in Phil, 2:12 charged a group of Christian during the apostolic era to ‘work out your own salvation with fear and trembling’. But what might be the implications of this text for the Christian who desperately seeks to be consoled of the assurance of salvation in Christ Jesus? Is it God who works completely in the salvation of man, or does man plays a pivotal role in his own salvation? In what context should one interpret this passage?
The introductory lectures and discussions in the Doctrine of Salvation class proposes that, in order to better understand the meaning of any given text one must seek to understand both the literal, and the symbolic context in which the text was given. It is from this standpoint one can contemplate other scriptural points on the matter of salvation. It is a fact that there is salvation in no one else but God. Yet it is also true that salvation is a choice on man’s part. Ultimately, the key is to reconcile both thoughts in light of scripture.
In reviewing the thoughts of some who have written on the essence salvation it is important to note that they often seek to understand the origin and the culmination of the process of salvation. The article entitled “Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E.G. White”, written by A. M. Rodriquez gives an overview of what ushered in the need for salvation. Rodriquez began his expression by describing human plight on planet earth. Without been able to fully comprehend the mystery of sin he described its results as ‘separation from the Creator’, the Source of Life. Separation from life inevitably results in death, and salvation was now the antidote implemented to counteract death. But the process of salvation could only become a reality through the incarnation. The ‘Word of God became flesh’ and dwell (on earth) among men. Jn, 10:10 and Jn, 3:16 give the assurance: “I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly”. “For God so loved…that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.” This in essence is salvation (the gift of life).
Yet there are indications that salvation is not a singular, utopian experience that happens when someone responds to the invitation to accept Jesus Christ. Neither is it process of performance where the works of individuals awards them trophies and contributes points toward ‘their’ eternal life. Many Christian in the past centuries seemed to have leaned to one of these extremes and have failed to understand that “salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given…by which we must be saved.”
The writings of E.G. White continue to shed light on the essence of salvation. Whidden, in the book Ellen White on Salvation gives a chronological overview of what White had to say about the matter of salvation. In the first five chapters he outlined White’s personal experience in her attempt to understand the basis of salvation, and how through her experience and understanding she influenced, and guided those she associated with. As Whidden presents his study on the White’s perspective on the subject, there are indications that the process is more that the forgiveness of sin, and the escape of death. The implications are that the process involves different phases that made manifest over time: Justification, sanctification and ultimately a glorified moment are the elements that works together to complete the process of salvation. Yet it takes more than having an awareness of the different phases of salvation to grasp its value. Somewhere between the pages of the book of Romans, textbooks, articles, and in lectures and discussions on the subject, one can anticipate a new enlightenment that will impact not only minds but lifestyles, for now and eternity.
Paradise, you have made a valid point here. Too often sacred writings are interpret and applied conveniently. When this happens, the context from which the material is written is ignored and the true meaning is lost. It is necessary for one to understand the importance of looking at scripture, and other inspired writing literally and symbolically to discover their true or intended meanings. The irony of not doing this may be likened to the idea of an individual taking one of two required medications prescribed by a physician, ignoring the other for the simple reason of not liking the taste. The benefit of sacred writings is much deeper than convenience, or even comfort. As you indicate, the scripture, and writings of individuals like E.G. White must be evaluated and interpreted from a holistic point. When this is done, the matter of salvation will take on new meaning. It will be interesting to see some of the concepts that will unravel in the Doctrines of Salvation class over the next three weeks.
Michael, in regards to your reflection “Getting on at the Ground Level”, I believe what you have said, especially about presenting Christ on the intermediate level to other, is ‘food for thought’. This may well be part of many individuals’ struggle to understand the love of Christ in the process of salvation. Your proposal is reason to evaluate the way we present Christ. As His servants are we presenting the simple beauty of His love and character, or are we impersonating and promoting the pharisaical methods? This is one more reason to appreciate our Doctrine of Salvation class as it offers the appropriate lens for us to view matters of salvation.
The thought that I a scofflaw, who once enforced the laws of the land and State, can be saved is something that for many Christians and non-Christians is incomprehensible. As a matter of fact the prevailing thought among many is that individuals that are in positions of leadership, such as ministers, law enforcement and the like, must be keepers of the law. If one of them were to violate a law then their credibility, as well as their salvation, would be questioned. Within church circles many may go the extent of judging and condemning the lawbreaker, often no different then those outside the church. I am all too familiar with this prevailing thought. As a PK (preachers kid) I grew up believing that every law had to be obeyed. If I breached a law I was considered subversive, leaving me with an atrocious feeling of inadequacy, and a sense that I was lost and unloved by God. Since this was the away of life I grew up holding to this belief. I candidly confess that often I too believed that transgressors of the law were condemned sinners. This mindset was further broadened by my many years of policing. Like the Apostle Paul who sought out the followers of Christ, I too sought out those who were transgressors of the law. It was only when I began to study scripture that I became aware of my fallacy. In fact scripture warns us that we are to “know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have to put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified (Gal. 2:16)”. The Apostle Paul goes further in his attempt to correct the misaligned thought of the day. He further writes, “Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard? Consider Abraham: “He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. “Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham. All nations will be blessed through you.” So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith (Gal. 3:4-9)”. By no means am I implying, suggesting or condoning a lifestyle of non-adherence to Godly or manmade laws. In fact the Apostle raises this in a form of a question that says, “Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law (Rom. 3:31)”. The idea of keeping the law and therefore being justified implies that one can get into heaven by works, but the matter of salvation is not one that can be acquired through good deeds. E. G. White expressed that belief and trust are wrapped in faith. And that “It is not enough to believe about Christ; we must believe in Him” (Gospel Workers p.261). In Him and through Him only can one be justified. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life (John 3:16)”. We must believe “in him” and therefore can be counted justified. The Apostle Paul adds to this thought by saying “Through him and his name’s sake, we receive grace and apostleship to call people from among the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith (Rom. 1:5)”. One of my favorite songs, which I have often sung as a special, is “A Sinner Saved by Grace”, by Bill Gaither. It has been said that the concept of a “sinner saved by grace” leads to a way of sinfulness. I dispute such on the grounds that one’s faith includes obedience, as is stated by Paul in his opening remarks to the Romans. This obedience is to the Person of Jesus Christ. It is faith, belief, and trust that leads me to sing the words “I’m just a sinner saved by grace, when I stood condemned to death, He took my place. Now I live and breathe in freedom with each breath of life I take, I’m loved and forgiven”. Hence, I am “A Justified Scofflaw”!
Reflection # 1: Are the basics really that basic?
As I sit in Dr. Hanna’s class, I can’t stop asking myself, why is he touching these elemental issues of salvation? Aren’t we supposed to know all these things already? Then it dawned on me, that perhaps this is exactly why we need this discussion. Could it be that we have become so used to handling terms like justification, sanctification, literal reading of scripture, etc., that we have become in a way desensitized? I see Jesus having to deal with the same issues when he dealt with the Pharisees, they understood salvation and sanctification intellectually, yet their hearts where far from God. Jesus had to come to show them the Father, to remind them of the “basics” of salvation (see Jesus’ encounter with the rich man in Matthew 20:16-30), and to point them back to the basics of salvation.
I believe we need to re-visit these concepts with a new and fresh approach, I believe that as a result we can become more effective in our ministries, develop a closer relationship with Christ, and have a renewed understanding. I believe that studying the mechanics, or dynamics of salvation is useful only if translates to a transformation of the heart, starting with us. Then, we will be able to communicate not only theory, but the experience of salvation. I am convinced that simply knowing how to “throw” theological terms around is not enough. Men and women in the Bible were able to witness only after they had an encounter with Christ. Are we having a daily encounter with Christ? can we talk about what he is doing in our lives? This is a great challenge if we want to be effective messengers of God’s word, because knowing the “message” in my opinion is not enough, we need to know the Messenger, through a daily relationship with him. I must confess that I am far from being an example, yet I see God’s high standard and I know that without his intervention in my life, I will not make it.
As I read about how Ellen White developed her teachings on salvation, I see how her early struggle with assurance of salvation and achieving perfection as a goal for eternal life, was replaced by the assurance of a balanced life which I believe was the product of a deep and mature relationship with God. She was able to share the “pitying Savior” to those who were repentant of their sins, but she also emphasized that true love is obedient (see John 14:15). Jesus loves us so much that he will never reject anyone who comes to him, no sin is too great that Christ can’t forgive, He is willing and able to save us and to guide us as we walk on the path of righteousness.
I appreciate Dr. Hanna’s lectures because I can see that just handling the right terms do not constitute any merit. A well polished sermon has its merit, but a transformed life can have a greater impact. God longs to create a clean heart and a steadfast spirit (Ps. 51:10) in us on a daily basis, so that we can become even better witnesses to the world of what His power and love can do in our lives.
So I need to think again when I believe that these concepts are too basic, because even Christ had to come and show us what to live a sanctified life really means.
Response to Ghenadie Girleanu’s Comment:
I totally agree with your comments, both groups of people with extreme ideas about salvation need our attention. We need to not only educate on the issue but better yet, demonstrate what a follower of Christ looks like with our actions, words, and Christ-like attitude. Then our teachings and sermons will be powerful.
Response to Jonathan Martin’s Comment:
I totally agree with his idea that as Adventists we need to have this discussion since we tend to emphasize the law over grace. I also agree that most of the misunderstanding is related to a superficial reading of scripture, which leads to a superficial living of scripture.
God’s message is balanced and wholistic, this should also be the way we approach our teaching and preaching.
What is the difference between temptation and sinning, and when does temptation become a sin? This was one of several connecting topics brought up in class and within our reading. There are two problem scenarios when it comes to this discussion. The first is when people are tempted, interpret that temptation as a sin, and feel a burdensome guilt because of it. The second is when people are tempted, assume they have already sinned because they have thought of that temptation, become apathetic towards the temptation and figure they should go ahead and act upon it since they are thinking about a sin. Both of these scenarios root from the same problem, which is basing salvation on works rather than basing salvation on the cross.
I see temptation as an indicator, which can be used in both positive and negative ways. We are tempted because of the sinful nature we inherited from Adam. (Romans 5) The desire for sin runs deep within us, and each person has his/her imperfections. The guilt that is felt when a temptation comes can be a heavy burden to bear if it is not given to Jesus. But just as a shock of pain from an injury might indicate something is physically wrong in us, a “shock of temptation” might indicate where we are spiritually weak. Temptation points us to the law, which points us to the need for grace, which carries us to the cross.
It is in this cycle that I would approach both persons. To the one who feels guilty because of temptation I would share what I read in Romans 5 and 6. The Law has shown us what sin is. However, it is not what justifies us. Through Adam we inherited a sinful nature, and because of that we will be tempted until sin is done away with. The good news is that we also have the option of inherited eternal life through Jesus Christ. Since we have been justified through faith in Jesus, we have reason to rejoice in temptation rather than feel guilty. We can praise God that he has transforming power in our lives and can help us make the choice not to sin after being tempted.
To the one who feels apathetic in temptation I would
Trung Hoang
Assignment 1
Salvation by Faith by Jan Paulsen
The book of Romans is the doctrinal constitution of Christianity. If anyone truly and humbly wants to study this book he or she would build a solid foundation of being a Christian. Not only it helps to witness more effectively, but it gives the true freedom and liberty from being in bondage.
After reading “Ellen White on Salvation” by Whidden I, “Salvation by Faith” by Jan Paulsen, and the teaching of Dr. Hanna and the discussions in the class I start to have a better grasp of how to explain salvation by faith better, both its objective and subjective dimensions.
We cannot separate the terms justification and sanctification when we study the subject of salvation. The justification is said to come first and it is only by faith and faith alone. When Paul wrote “the righteous will live by faith,” in Rom 1:17 he may have thought of Hab 2:4, “the righteous will live by his faith.” Jan Paulsen points out that the Old Testament noun that comes closest to faith in meaning (emunah) actually means “faithfulness.” It’s about someone who can be trusted or relied on. And because God is trustworthy, I can put my trust in him.
Faith can be looked at objectively and subjectively. Objectively, one can study about God’s faithfulness, know what Christ has done for humanity, and believe that Christ died on the cross for all sinners, but that’s only theologically. James clearly stated that even the devil believes in God and not obeying him. So there’s the subjective aspect of faith. If Christ is the only mean of salvation, then no work is good enough to save any soul. And if we live “by faith alone,” we place ourselves in Christ’s righteousness , the practical godliness and victory over sin are clearly biblical. It’s not the sinner’s faith in God that he’s saved, but it’s the faith of God. God is faith and without his faith in saving humanity, nothing can accomplish such task.
Therefore, keeping the law is an act of obedience to faith rather than the score on faith. For nothing good or moral a sinner can do to be just before God. The fact that the word “sinner” suggests that he or she is uncapable of doing anything good on his or her will. So, because of God’s faith in Christ’s righteousness, He judges the sinner as if he or she has never sinned before.
This gospel should be preached and spreaded in our churches, especially to non-religious and young people who long for true assurance and hope for new future.
To Alexis
I often experience the cylce of feeling guilty of something I thought that I committed a sin. Thanks for reminding the awareness.
To Nyarige Samuel Juma
I like how you said that we need a balanced understanding of salvation to avoid either side of extremes (all grace or all works). However, I find that sometimes when I think? that I'm living right I tend to swing toward the law. But when I'm guilty of sin when run toward grace. It's so easy to become a hypocrit without realizing ourselves.
To piasi suleiman
I find your comments on Ellen White who "was also struggling with how she will get the inner peace and her assurance for salvation" as well as that, "The only picture we used to have concerning her is that she was perfect" to be on point. As I have come learn about E. G. White is that she too was growing in her Christian walk. And as she grew, and changed, so did her theological perceptions. I have come to admire her for continuously pointing people back to God's word, where one was able to find the truth, inner peace and reassurance on salvation.
To Edgar Alquinta, I find your comment to be profound, and true. I too am convinced that simply knowing theological terms and then throwing such around is insufficient. In many cases these theological terms we use are not found in the Bible. Yes, we too, as the men and women of biblical days, must have an encounter with Christ.
As humans, I believe we have a tendency to make things into mathematical equations such as 1 + 1 = 2. We love ideas that are as neat and clean cut as this mathematical equation. I believe this is perhaps where we fall into a trap of over-simplifying or over-complicating an idea. We are often frustrated because the idea of salvation is not as clean cut as we would like it to be. The doctrine of salvation is to be discussed throughout the ages to come even beyond our lifetime on earth, and I think we need to accept the fact that it is something that we may never fully understand. I appreciate the balance that the class emphasizes on the doctrine of salvation. The lectures have helped me to gain a better understanding of scripture, and to look at scripture literally rather than literalistically or legalistically. Although Dr. Hanna listed the progression from faith through love to hope, but I appreciated the fact that he did not try to oversimplify or overcomplicate the process by making it into a mathematical equation. I have also appreciated Whidden’s attempt to look at Ellen White’s writings holistically. I believe learning to read Ellen White’s writings more holistically will solve a lot of problems that we find in Seventh-day Adventist church, because a lot of the problems sprouted from taking Ellen White’s writings out of context. We missed the purpose of the inspired writings of Ellen White’s writings by making the mistake of things out of context, because the original purpose of her writings was to illuminate a light on the scripture so that we would have a better understanding of God’s word. By examining her writings, we will perhaps be able to get to the issues that originated the problems, and in turn, we will be able to untangle some of these problems that exist in our church. However, there is a challenge that is involved with this task, because of sheer amount of material that has been written by Ellen White. Whidden tackles the issue by looking at the central themes that have appeared throughout her life time, and eliminating certain texts that is repeated.
The mixture of reading through the book of Romans in combination with Whidden’s book on “Ellen White on Salvation” and articles from the Biblical Research Institute is very interesting, and it is helping me to have a better grasp of the doctrine of salvation. I realize the crucial importance of correctly understanding the doctrine of salvation, because as the leaders of this church, we may make the mistake of taking people down a wrong path that is nowhere near salvation. As Dr. Hanna often tells us in class, may the Holy Spirit give us the wisdom to understand!
In response to Michael Taylor's reflection:
I too feel the same way somehow when it comes to realizing the importance of going back to the very basics of understanding the principles of justification. Dr Hanna's class is really helping a lot. I do agree with you that way too often we take this issue for granted, and it reflects in the way how we teach the bible to people who are interested. We skip this part of the process and importance of salvation, assuming that people are aware of it, kinda trying to jump to the "really important" stuff, which we assume to be the keeping of "rules" and "regulations" and the "do's" and "don'ts" of christian life. We should preach and teach Jesus and the cross more! and how profound that is.
In response to jonathan Martin's reflection:
I know that we should emphasize more and more grace, but I have realized that in some circumstances and to certain people talking about grace and salvation has become a new way of legalism - one with a christ-centered facade. Therefore, I agree with you in being more centered. Interesting toilet paper metaphor, huh?! :-)
Assignment # 1
One aspect of the class lecture which aroused my curiosity was the manner that symbol and literal as concepts relate to biblical interpretation, and its composite and positive correlation, and interdependence. Even more interesting is the idea that these concepts function in rather complimentary terms rather than in an opposing and contradictory manner. Theirs is a relationship of reciprocity, meaning that the involvedness of one of these ideas attached to a particular biblical text does not diminish the veracity of the other. While the workings of these concepts may appear to stable and harmonious, it also has the potential to produce as many questions and doubts, which could have vast theological implications.
If it is true that in order for something to have a symbolic function, it must also have a literal equivalent or representation, then is it possible that a misinterpretation of either of these ideas, or distortion of both may produce irrefutable theological conclusions based on private, collective, or organizational understanding? A related response may determine that one’s private or collective understanding does not necessarily reduce the function or the certitude of these concepts for the reason that these ideas are objective. In seeking to ascertain the finer workings of symbol and literal as constructs of biblical interpretation, I believe it is necessary for one to consent to refraining from premature conjecturing, and employ higher order thinking informed by faith.
The introductory remarks in the article by Kane highlights the importance of employing proper hermeneutical principles which lends itself to a more complete understanding of Scripture. Beyond the historical, linguistic, and grammatical components of hermeneutics is the deliberate commitment to the subject matter. This commitment seeks to examine previous research and findings related to the subject. It also necessitates the setting aside of presuppositions while handling the inferences made by others in a manner which suggest critical thinking.
From the reading of Romans one through three it is clear that Paul is intent on directing the readers’ attention to the need for salvation through the message of the Gospel. Beyond this underlining point, Paul also addresses the issue of God impartiality towards humanity. In fact, one could argue that Paul is suggesting that God extends his hands beyond the folly of humans in order to give to each person a chance of experiencing life at its best—a life which resides in the person and works of Jesus.
Assignment #1 Delvin Frazer Reflection Paper
The reading materials were inspiring in relation to how God planned out our salvation through his son Jesus Christ, so he could save his people from their sins. It appears from the issue of salvation many are asking if Christ death on the cross within itself ultimately saved the world. I would argue that Christ death on the cross indeed saved the world and his people from the hands of Satan. We must understand that the cross of itself does not possess power to redeem and restore mankind into a divine relationship with God.
Throughout history protestant theology teaches that the cross possess all power to saved the world from its sinful conditions, and by holding and wearing the cross people live can be restore through the object. However, it has theological distortion as biblical implication on the teaching of salvation in scriptures, which cause heated theological debate on “the saved world by Christ death”. The bible teaches that all have sinned by the disobedience of one man caused eternal death on the world, yet through one man obedience to death on the cross all have been redeem and given eternal live to those you believed.
The meaning of this is that Christ death opened divine connection between God and man in Christ, but it also speaks of the natural, general, and supreme revelation connective he brought to communicate is divine authority to man in all three revelations. He saved the world by his death on the cross, but for mankind to receive eternal salvation, one has to exercise faith and obedience in the root of salvation. The world now has the ultimate opportunity to embrace God’s saving grace because of Christ symbolic and literal victory at the cross over the evil one.
According to Manuel Rodriguez, he agreed that the alienation of humans from God, which was the result of the fall, came to an end through Christ. He became a living bridge between God and humans because he was both, human and divine. This was Christ’s objective act of salvation. He made it possible for humans beings to be united with God; he connected earth with heaven. But only repentant sinners can benefit from that salvation.” I agreed with is statement however before his death the entire world was doomed for destruction, but Christ has saved the world before the cross event became symbolic and literal reality as a witness. The world is saved in his death which means that everyone now as the opportunity to surrender his/her life in God’s presence. I am still thinking with this statement “ Saved world”
Assignment # 1
3Ds of Assurance (Hope, Faith, Love)
How do they three dimensions of assurance relate to salvation? What are they three dimensions of assurance? I always have issue in regard to assurance in Christ for salvation. We talked about the three dimensions of assurance in the class this week. The three dimensions of assurance are also the three elements of salvation. The three dimensions of assurance are: Hope, Faith and Love. Mrs. White said “Were we to ground our hope upon joyful emotions, there are many of God's true people who would be without assurance. Jesus cares for the weak and feeble in their simplicity, and would quicken their life by his own heart beats.” The word of God is loaded in precious thing that will not be corrupted ever. “We are saved by hope in Christ Jesus: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man sees, why does he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it” the assurance of love is the the love existing between believers is to be similar to the love existing between the Father and the Son. And this love in the soul is the evidence of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ, are the conditions of salvation. In James' day there were men arising who were doing just as many are doing in our day,--preaching that faith in Christ releases men from obedience to the law of God. James declares that "faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness; and he was called the friend of God." It is by the constant exercise of faith and love that believers are made to shine as lights in the world. Salvation is something that every human being stands in need of even more than basic needs. One of the authors made it clear that since the time of Adams fall, man has been standing in need of salvation and deliverance from sin. Christ came to fulfill the promise of God to Adam and Eve about the plan of salvation. Our fore parent had love, faith and hope in God to save them from sin. These three dimensions hope, love and faith must be a part of our life.
Response to Trung Hoang Assignment # 1
Salvation by Faith by Jan Paulsen
I really like the way you feel in regard to salvation. Some time feel the same way too. As you mentioned that “The fact that the word “sinner” suggests that he or she is uncapable of doing anything good on his or her will. So, because of God’s faith in Christ’s righteousness, He judges the sinner as if he or she has never sinned before. To me there is no better way to conclude this paper by ending with an appeal.
“This gospel should be preached and spreaded in our churches, especially to non-religious and young people who long for true assurance and hope for new future.”
Assignment # 2
Are we saved by the Gospel preach only by Human being?
Romans 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "But the righteous man shall live by faith." Romans 15:13 Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
I understand the Gospel is the power of God for salvation through faith, but what about those who did not have the opportunity to hear the gospel? Will they be saved in the kingdom of God? On what God will base
You don’t have to be perfect to be counted righteous. God can reveal himself to any one whom He chooses too. God does not need a person to preach the gospel to someone another to be saved. Abraham did not have a human being preached the gospel to him another to have faith in the Mighty God of heaven. Salvation is the work of the heavenly architecture. God knows His people, He can and will communication to the whole human race the plan of salvation. “God has a purpose for each one.”God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love wherewith He loved us, even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ (by grace ye are saved;) and hath raised us up together, and made us to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus; that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God; not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." These words show us what we may become by striving to fulfill God's purpose. {ST, May 14, 1902 par. 4}”
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life." I begin to understand that there is a need for me to change the way I think about salvation by grace. There is nothing we can do that will help us to make to the kingdom of heaven but what we do can prevent us make it to the kingdom of God. Every good thing we do is the work of the Holy Spirit in us though our obedience in Christ Jesus. We are justified by faith like Abraham was justified by faith.
Reflection #2
Recently I spoke with an individual who wanted to know if I believed that a person could reach sinless perfection. When I told him I did not think so, he became a bit apprehensive and started quoting a bunch of scripture passages at me. He was annoyed at the fact that people could not see that the scriptures, in his opinion, plainly teach sinless perfection for the follower of Jesus Christ. What was even more interesting, for me at least, was the fact that this individual was not an Adventist. Normally I would expect to hear this type of theology from someone within my denomination. I never thought I would have this type of conversation with someone outside of the Adventist faith.
Something I like about individuals who promote the idea of sinless perfection is their emphasis on living sanctified, holy lives. The reality is that we don’t hear a lot about overcoming sin, even within the Adventist church. It’s as if we don’t want to cross any boundaries or step on people’s toes. The more we stay out of people’s personal lives, the better. The problem, however, is that the scriptures do in fact hold us to the highest standard. And if we claim to preach a Biblical faith, we have to preach against sin.
The problem I have with this type of theology, however, is that it downplays not only the extent, but also the depth to which we, as individuals, are contaminated by sin. Sin is not an external monster we have to domesticate, but an internal disease that eats up every cell in our bodies. Sin is so much a part of our being that it has numbed our senses to the point that we can sin without even knowing it. This is why Edward Heppenstall comments in his BRI article: “If one's view of sin is shallow enough, sinless perfection would not be an impossible achievement.” But since sin is not shallow, sinless perfection needs to be reconsidered.
I am not advocating, however, Calvin’s total depravity. Even completely secular individuals have a sense of morality. Most won’t argue that cheating on a test or murdering an individual are moral acts. The image of God may have been marred, but there is still a small glimmer of light that seeps through the darkness. And if we act upon that small glimmer of light, and seek Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, we can begin to sensitize ourselves to the sin within us.
A key text is Philippians 3:12-14. In this passage Paul makes the statement that he has not obtained perfection. This is Paul, the Apostle, and the one who had a personal encounter with Jesus Christ Himself. This Paul never claimed a sinless perfection. Instead, he says, “one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.” Paul makes it very clear that he hasn’t reached perfection. But that doesn’t mean he stops moving forward. He may fall, he may stumble, but he keeps moving ahead. From victory to victory he gets closer to his goal.
This should be the attitude of all Christians. We recognize that we are sinful to the core, and at the same time realize that we are called to overcome in Christ. When God reveals a sin we need to overcome, we do so willingly in response to our love for Jesus. And when we overcome that sin, God reveals another sin we need to overcome, and we willingly overcome that sin. But because of the profundity of sin within our beings, it is a never-ending process. That is not a problem, however, for the mature Christian. The mature Christian knows that the righteousness of Jesus more than makes up for where he lacks.
To Stephen Lee Comments:
I sincerely agree that our reading and misuse of Ellen White writings affects our understanding of this such important topic of salvation. I also believe that our lack of knowledge of what she fully represent as a prophetess to the SDA movement leads us to a poor recognition of her methods to explain the salvation topic.
Cesar Grassiotto: First Article
It was interesting the reading from the first three chapters of the book “Ellen White on Salvation”. Her struggles to understand the process of sanctification, going through her early years as a child to even her late years as a prophetess, gave me a fresh appreciation and broader perspective of her call as God’s messenger. Fortunately, the Adventist movement has a prophetess that had no fear to admit faults and human frailty. As we skim over the superficies of the doctrine of salvation topic, is refreshing to know that God has used frail human vessels as instruments of encouragement to His church. Mrs. Ellen White was no more than a child when she began to realize her sinful condition and her necessity of a savior. According to the author, she “found it hard to obtain an assurance of acceptance, feeling that she "could never become worthy to be called a child of God".
To be found in Christ was for young Ellen a desire that daily consumed her thoughts, leading her even to moments of depression and anxiety. So many of us interact with similar feelings. A reality of a greater need of God and the understanding of His love and acceptance even for some pastors is as cruel and abstract as was to young Ellen. It wasn’t until she completed fourteen years of age that she had her first “encounter” with God. Not that she wasn’t a believer, far from it, but the encounter was an open eye experience on the topic of salvation and sanctification. Seems that Mrs. White began to understand salvation as a free gift from God combined with human response to obey His will. Mrs. White response to all of the questions about salvation and sanctification was a result of her background as a Methodist. Her desire to be finally “holy” was a reflection of a such called “Second Blessing” doctrine taught by the followers of John Wesley at the Methodist movement. Later in her ministry she recognizes that such approach wasn’t the best and more sound doctrine to be followed.
As she developed as a Christian, understanding and receiving more light and as she walked daily with Christ, Mrs. White came to terms with the salvation by faith doctrine, which later was seeing in the Minneapolis meeting, as a turning point in the Seventh Day-Adventist movement. It wasn’t any easy for Mrs. White and her husband to introduce a more faith based salvation doctrine to the so called leaders of the movement. They also had being exposed to Methodist teachings, and even more now after they understandings of God’s Holly law, their dependence on self was indeed a stumbling-block to a more Christ centered eschatological thinking. Some, according to the author, had the audacity to claim that by their own efforts on keeping God’s Holy law, they had become holy themselves, and preaching such heresy started to divide the church. Others, observing a more “cheap grace” doctrine, believed that salvation was just a matter of accepting the sacrifice of Jesus, with no need to observe bible commandments. Mrs. Ellen White gracefully dealt with both groups. Because of her continue understanding of God’s plan, and also of her frailty condition, she stop trusting on self to attempt holiness or salvation, by lay all her cared upon Jesus. For Ellen White: “Perfection was not to be claimed as some sinless accomplishment, but rather
Cesar Grassiotto: First Article
It was interesting the reading from the first three chapters of the book “Ellen White on Salvation”. Her struggles to understand the process of sanctification, going through her early years as a child to even her late years as a prophetess, gave me a fresh appreciation and broader perspective of her call as God’s messenger. Fortunately, the Adventist movement has a prophetess that had no fear to admit faults and human frailty. As we skim over the superficies of the doctrine of salvation topic, is refreshing to know that God has used frail human vessels as instruments of encouragement to His church. Mrs. Ellen White was no more than a child when she began to realize her sinful condition and her necessity of a savior. According to the author, she “found it hard to obtain an assurance of acceptance, feeling that she "could never become worthy to be called a child of God".
To be found in Christ was for young Ellen a desire that daily consumed her thoughts, leading her even to moments of depression and anxiety. So many of us interact with similar feelings. A reality of a greater need of God and the understanding of His love and acceptance even for some pastors is as cruel and abstract as was to young Ellen. It wasn’t until she completed fourteen years of age that she had her first “encounter” with God. Not that she wasn’t a believer, far from it, but the encounter was an open eye experience on the topic of salvation and sanctification. Seems that Mrs. White began to understand salvation as a free gift from God combined with human response to obey His will. Mrs. White response to all of the questions about salvation and sanctification was a result of her background as a Methodist. Her desire to be finally “holy” was a reflection of a such called “Second Blessing” doctrine taught by the followers of John Wesley at the Methodist movement. Later in her ministry she recognizes that such approach wasn’t the best and more sound doctrine to be followed.
As she developed as a Christian, understanding and receiving more light and as she walked daily with Christ, Mrs. White came to terms with the salvation by faith doctrine, which later was seeing in the Minneapolis meeting, as a turning point in the Seventh Day-Adventist movement. It wasn’t any easy for Mrs. White and her husband to introduce a more faith based salvation doctrine to the so called leaders of the movement. They also had being exposed to Methodist teachings, and even more now after they understandings of God’s Holly law, their dependence on self was indeed a stumbling-block to a more Christ centered eschatological thinking. Some, according to the author, had the audacity to claim that by their own efforts on keeping God’s Holy law, they had become holy themselves, and preaching such heresy started to divide the church. Others, observing a more “cheap grace” doctrine, believed that salvation was just a matter of accepting the sacrifice of Jesus, with no need to observe bible commandments. Mrs. Ellen White gracefully dealt with both groups. Because of her continue understanding of God’s plan, and also of her frailty condition, she stop trusting on self to attempt holiness or salvation, by lay all her cared upon Jesus. For Ellen White: “Perfection was not to be claimed as some sinless accomplishment, but rather
Cesar Grassiotto, Second Article.
The Consequences of Adam's fall.
As we gasp the reality of human condition and how far bellow we are from the Edenic atmosphere, we wonder: how could one be saved? Even now as we dive into the topics of salvation and realize how great mechanism had to be putted together in other for God’s sons to be accepted back into the kingdom, one could just be amazed. The reading of the article “ Adam and Human Race in he Writings of White E. G.” by Angel Manuel Rodriguez, lead us to a impressive reality check on our fallen human condition, and allows us to even more contemplate the sacrifice of Jesus as an amazing, amazing grace. Reading the mentioned article came to my mind the sayings of Paul, when writing to the church in Ephesus sad: “As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.”.
Manuel Rodrigues research on Ellen White comments on the topic of Adam’s fall and the condition of human race after fall. He made plain and clear that our situation was a final and decisive one, leading all the human race to death and eternal death. No communication between heaven and earth was permitted, like Mrs. White mentioned: “A mysteriously evil happened to the human nature itself that resulted in its enslavement under the power of sin”. The corruption was so intense and so irreversible, that no human works or human efforts could bring an atonement that would be accepted by the holy God and again reestablished the lost and so cherished peace into the recent created planet.
Not just the Adam and Eve were deprived by the sin condition, but also to the entire future generation that would descend from them. Adam was the head of God’s earthly creation, responsible and keeper of the garden of Eden. The fall brought not just death, but also the major penalty of losing the control of what once was Adam kingdom, to the prince of darkness.
Another Adam than had to come to retake, reestablish, and rule over the earth once again. The coming of Jesus was God’s engineer method to bring a solution to a cosmic conflict. Not just a planet had been lost, but much more, God’s law was depict as abusive and harmful. The Divine took the human condition. The ultimate king, became the ultimate servant. The law giver came to teach and apply the holy principles. What Paul than wrote to the Ephesians, finally made sense; those who once lived as immoral’s, adulterous, murderous and all the sinful list implied on the text, now could cast their faults upon the one who came to bear the sin of all human race. The following quote from Mrs. White, expands what I am trying to present: "Because man fallen could not overcome Satan with his human strength, Christ came from the royal courts of heaven to help him with His human and divine strength combined. . . . He obtains for the fallen sons and daughters of Adam that strength which it is impossible for them to gain for themselves, that in His name they may overcome the temptations of Satan."[52]
Jonathan Martin
I agree with Jonathan Martin that for us to understand salvation, we ought to marry grace and the law. Grace will realistically thrive well within laws for no enterprise whether it be worldly,bussiness, or religious can succeed without laws. The only difference is that in keeping God's law, Christ enables us to do it not as a legalistic means of obtaining salvation, but a means of keeping our love relationship with him and fellow men going on.
Paradise Comment:
I agree with Paradise's comment that proper interpretation of the scriptures is necessary in
understanding a given text. For us to have a holistic understanding of salvation, the Ellen White writings and our doctrines should be built from "thus said the Lord"
Paradise
I agree with Paradise that proper interpretation of Scripture is the truest way of understanding a given text. For us to have a balanced view of salvation,Ellen White writings and all doctrines ought be based on "Thus saith the Lord" with an open spirit of willingness to learn and change.
Cesar Grassiotto, #3 article
Can you imagine a world without rules? As a was driving to class today, late and over speeding, I realized that I was braking a rule. In my mind, I had a good excuse for it: getting on time for class. But, even the best of my excuses could’t makeup for my obvious mistake. Even my “great” excuses could’t sanitize my behavior. For a moment I was frustrate with all the traffic system, and wished for a “cosmic” power that would allow me to remove all of them, in order to make things “easy” for me. Suddenly the law that was there for my own protection and safety, became an instrument of damnation. I was angry with the law. I was trying to find my way out by creating excuses of how to keep on my absurd mistake and not be punished by an punitive police officer. FInally, arrived safe and on time, and better, without a ticket! An interesting feeling than came to me as I was parking my car: “See, you found your way out of this one, congratulations! Maybe tomorrow I could do it again!. That’s my problem. I tend to find ways to break the law and not face the consequences. Unfortunately, my perspective regarding consequences is very narrow. Just because I did not get caught by a police officer and did not received a ticket, I than led myself to believe that what I did wasn’t that bad, perhaps not even wrong.
That’s a humans nature summary. That’s exactly what Christ came to change in me.I have heard a story about this church member that like me had problems with traffic regulations. One day, as he was speeding on his way home, he got stop by a police officer. As the police officer was approaching the vehicle, the driver noticed that the policeman was a member of the same church that he also attend it. He felt that he could talk the his way out of a “coming” ticket thinking: clearly the police officer as a church member and fellow Christian would understand my situation. As he started excusing himself for his speeding, the police officer quietly walked away and started to write on a peace a paper. The driver could’t believe that his friend, a church fellow “buddy” would do such a thing against him. Finally, the police officer came back and gave him a note, with a ticket. The note had the following words: “ My friend, five years ago I lost my daughter. She was killed by a driver, who was speeding on his way home. I would really appreciate if for now on, you start to respect the traffic laws”.
As we comprehend Christ’s sacrifice, than, His law also receives new meaning. My sinful nature still very predominant, but, control and subjugated to the love of Christ that constrain me. His law appears to be no more as a heavy burden, but, as a clear representation of what my sinful acts caused Him to suffer. Such realization is pointed by the authors of the “ The Dynamic of Salvation” article as being like a “path of obedience leads us into ever-increasing understanding of God's will for us (Prov. 4:18). From its magnification in the life and teachings of Jesus, we see that it is far more than a set of rules that call for external compliance. We see that it searches even our thoughts and motives, and the desires and intents of the heart. Further, obedience is not merely the absence of transgression; it is a life of positive goodness”.
The sacrifice of Jesus leads me to obedience, softened my heart, and prepares me to represent His character.
Response to Trung Hoang Assignment 1
Your contribution has added flavor to the discussion and is recognized. I am interested in the manner by which you arrived at your conclusion which supposes that "If anyone truly and humbly wants to study this book he or she would build a solid foundation of being a Christian." Here is my observation to your suggestion. Is it possible for a person to 'truly' become immerse in the writings of Paul without acknowledging or subscribing to a particular brand of Christianity?
Response to Juma’s Reflection 1
In your treatment of the issue to salvation you suggest that the problem does not rest with the message, authors, etc, but in one's approach. Would you consider that even if an individual had the correct approach, his or her perception of salvation might create an added dimension of interpretation which would result in more 'issues'?
Reflection #2: If there were no more mystery…
Scientific, logical American upbringing has really tainted my view of religion. Not just mine, really, but no doubt many others. We feel the urge to explain EVERYTHING. Everything has to have a well-ordered, logical explanation, no matter how vague the details are about it. We’re told that Jonah was swallowed by a great fish, and now some people are actually studying and dissecting whales to judge if their stomach is big enough to hold a man for three days. This desire for an explanation appears more so when we attempt to tackle the mystery of the trans-cosmic Christ.
Both in class and in my reading of Whidden’s book, there have been a few sections that have stood out for their controversial mystery. You could take any of the following topics and completely divide a typical Sabbath School class in less than five minutes: Original Sin & our “bent” towards sin, models of atonement (moral influence, substitutionary, etc.), Christ’s divinity (Arianism or Trinitarian), and especially Christ’s human nature. “Raise your hands if you think that Jesus was like Adam before the fall…”
This week has really opened my eyes to a whole new understanding of the complexity of Christ. It’s been said that if you could understand God, He’d cease to be God. At the same time, new light has been revealed to me about just what Jesus did to come here and die for me. While still God, He put on this same disgusting garb of flesh and bones that I wear today. He stepped off of His throne and became like me. He was tempted to trust in His own might, battled the Enemy over matters of hunger and thirst, and felt pain greater than I could ever imagine when He was nailed to the cross. He did this for me.
In the same way, my reading in Romans as it relates to class has also been helpful. I am like Peter in many ways, in this case because I don’t understand half of what Paul’s talking about. (I’d use a Bible with CLEARer WORDing, but I don’t want to get into THAT divisive topic right now, haha.) What I do gather from Romans 3-8 is that just as Abraham was justified by God and called friend even before he was circumcised, God still loved me enough to reach out to me in order to gain my friendship while I still lacked a public expression of faith in Him (4:9-11). God’s grace came centuries before I was born, and He even continued to show me grace while I was yet a sinner (5:8). My faith, my works, and my character are all a reflection of what God did and does, not the reason why God did.
Angel Rodriguez’s article on Romans 3:21-24 did open my eyes further to the understanding of Paul’s commentary on justification. All have sinned, yes, every single person. We’ve all done something stupid; Hindus, Muslims, Witch doctors, and even fifth-generation-vegan-Adventists. There’s no need to pull “Original Sin” into this phrase – we don’t need to look back 4,000-6,000 years (depending on the audience) for a sin when we can look back 4-6 hours ago and find one readily. At the same time, Christ has saved us all the same way. Both that Hindu and that Adventist are saved by Christ’s death on the Cross and accepting that grace by faith. There are other points of doctrine that might arise where we may feel a different leading by the Spirit, but Christ’s death on the cross is universal and clear.
There are still many mysteries in the cosmos (and even outside-of-the-cosmos; thank you Dr. Hanna). The more I learn, the more I realize that I don’t know. What is the nature of the Holy Spirit? How did the mixture of divinity and humanity work EXACTLY? How could God simply speak the world into existence? Why does God love ME? I close with Whidden’s words on p.62: “If there were no more mystery, what need would there be for faith?”
Richard M. White
Assignment #2
June 16, 2010
Salvation found not in the Cross or the Blood but in the atonement of God’s Love
After reading chapters 5 to 11 in the book of Romans, chapters 5 to 9 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, and the following four BHI articles; Why did Jesus Die? How God Saves Us by George W. Reid; Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10, Christ Saved the Human Race and Comments on the “In Adam/In Christ Motifs by Angel Manuel Rodriguez, I have come to the understanding that it is not the Cross or the Blood of Jesus Christ that saves us, but these are just a demonstration or an act of salvation.
What truly saves us is God’s awesome and gracious love through the salvation of his Son’s death on the cross, and we accept this gift of love by His grace onto salvation. “"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” John 3:16 God gave everything to mankind in order to demonstrate his love towards us. When man sin, God went as far as giving up His only begotten son to save us. This was the true manifestation of His love for us and towards us. Christ death would be meaningless if it was not out from love of the Father. It is this indescribable love that give Christ death on the cross all its meaningfulness to us.
The death of Jesus Christ on the cross is not to be trivialized. Such a death was not glorious in the least. This type of killing in the days of the Roman Empire was only reserved for non Roman citizens. However, even as gruesome as the death of Christ was it or His blood does not save us. This was just a representation of the love of the Father. (Romans 5:5-8) By given has son as an atonement for our sins, God demonstrated how much He loves us and how much He is willing to give up for us.
The tendency to focus on the objects of Christ death: the Cross, the nails, Calvary, His blood, and believing these are the means through which forgiveness and salvation comes tempting, however it is a misrepresentation of the true meaning of Christ’s death. It tends to miss the love of God in the experience of the crucifixion and the true gift of salvation. It was God who was crucified for us, through His son Jesus Christ. This was His love expressed in human form, human suffering, and human death.
If we could truly recognize this love of the Father towards us, we would place a deeper consideration for the need to sin. To continue to sin is a rejection of God’s undying love towards us. We even disrespect this gift of salvation. We cheapen it by continuing to sin. (Romans 6:12-14) But the beauty off salvation and the love of our Father, is that He standby ready to forgive us even if we willfully again, and again. He does not need to offer His son again and again if we sin. His love covers all our sins past, present, and future. As sin exists, His graceful Love exists even more. (Romans 5:20) Now our sin can never out do His grace. This does not give us the right to presumptuously sin and come to the Father expecting to be forgiven each time we sin. Of course not. Now we live by faith in the fact that we are forgiven and loved, and our response to this love is to honor God with the grace He has given us to not sin. We must always remember that God does not turn us away if we sin. This is one to the mysteries of God’s love towards us. It cannot be explained, therefore we need to believe it and accept is by faith and don’t run away from it. God saves. His entire purpose is to save man for their sins. He writes in Matthew 11:28, “Come to me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” My plea is to not run from God if we sin but to run towards Him, because He loves us more that we could ever imagine and wants to forgive us of our sins.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. It is His Love towards us that save.
Richard M. White
Respond to Jonathan Martin on grace and the law.
I appreciate you illustration on the bath room and the use of the toilet paper. You are so dead on. There is no need to remind us of the law if we obey the law and we do not need to constantly go back to the law to see if we are in accordance with it. The law is good but we obey not on our own because we can keep the law but by the grace of God. Therefore we need not to be constantly reminded of the law and try and work to keep it, but abide in God and you will automatically keep the law. To me they are inseparable. Law and grace goes together, and it is the grace of god, not ours that allows us to keep the law.
Respond to Bigogo #2 reflection.
I could not agree with you more. Although salvation is a free gift the recipient has to do something to obtain it. That is accept is by faith. Hence justification by faith is conditional upon acceptance. As Sister White mention in 2T 159 "Faith will never save you unless it is justified by works." This work is the acceptance.
Rich
Reading Assignment #2
Name : Hyo Won
Date : Jun 17, 2010
(Rm 8:35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?
(Rm 8:36) As it is written： "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."
(Rm 8:37) No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
(Rm 8:38) For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
(Rm 8:39) neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
When I read these, I am always touched with few verses Paul wrote as a core value of Christianity. In fact during weekdays I feel inattentive in the class in which there is no focusing point for me, however with these verses finally I am revived in late day of this week.
Vs 35 “shall separate”
“Can anyone put a distance between us and Christ's love? Can anyone cause Him to stop loving us? All the things that Paul now lists will not make Christ love us any less.”(SDABC, 6BC 579) Just simple insight emerging from my mind is that Christ’s love is the strongest one that everybody wants even in secular society.
Vs 37 “ Are more than conquerors”
“This compound word occurs nowhere else in the NT. Paul uses a word that depicts the excess of God's blessing over man's need.”(6BC 579)
How beautiful words He use for the one who is in Christ! He is always pouring out His blessings excessively into us. Are we ready to receive the blessings (2co 4:7 ‘this treasure in jars of clay’) from the above?
“When death comes, that breaks all other unions, even that of the soul and body, it carries the believer's soul into the nearest union with its beloved Lord Jesus, and the full enjoyment of him for ever.” (My lovely Book, Bible, annotated from Rom 8:35~39)
I want to be a mature believer even in any the worst situation that I may face, sincerely trusting the Lord with this verse.
(Rm 8:37) No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
Reading Assignment #2
Name : Hyo Won
Date : Jun 16, 2010
(Rm 8:35) Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?
(Rm 8:36) As it is written： "For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."
(Rm 8:37) No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
(Rm 8:38) For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
(Rm 8:39) neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
When I read these, I am always touched with few verses Paul wrote as a core value of Christianity. In fact during weekdays I feel inattentive in the class in which there is no focusing point for me, however with these verses finally I am revived in late day of this week.
Vs 35 “shall separate”
“Can anyone put a distance between us and Christ's love? Can anyone cause Him to stop loving us? All the things that Paul now lists will not make Christ love us any less.”(SDABC, 6BC 579) Just simple insight emerging from my mind is that Christ’s love is the strongest one that everybody wants even in secular society.
Vs 37 “ Are more than conquerors”
“This compound word occurs nowhere else in the NT. Paul uses a word that depicts the excess of God's blessing over man's need.”(6BC 579)
How beautiful words He use for the one who is in Christ! He is always pouring out His blessings excessively into us. Are we ready to receive the blessings (2co 4:7 ‘this treasure in jars of clay’) from the above?
“When death comes, that breaks all other unions, even that of the soul and body, it carries the believer's soul into the nearest union with its beloved Lord Jesus, and the full enjoyment of him for ever.” (My lovely Book, Bible, annotated from Rom 8:35~39)
I want to be a mature believer even in any the worst situation that I may face, sincerely trusting the Lord with this verse.
(Rm 8:37) No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
Assign no#2
Being the second week of the discussion I have to be sincere that our discussion stated becoming more complex, why ?because this is the week which the participants have to present a proposed research paper they will write on this course, the doctrine of salvation, hence our discussion could go forward to where we have not covered or back to where we started from, this depends on the topic the presenter chose, as it were in the time of bible translation from its original manuscripts to other languages, in the process translation the language might differ depending on who is translating it but at least the entire meaning will not get loose sense .This applied to our discussion this week ,some of the presentations were so interesting to me as the presenters were trying to drive the point home.
One presenter aroused the sense of humor on the ongoing world cup championship in south Africa, one question that popped in my mind in the beginning was that is he for real or choking or else he has forgotten he has only five minutes to present his topic? but at the end of his five minutes presentation he drove his point on and it strike in our mind that any other presentations with people use like what most theologians like by saying my Greek, ,Hebrew , exegesis, or using several scriptures to drive appoint home could do.
I do understand that the bible is like a forest as one anonymous author said i.e. it has several themes ,contexts, stories etc but one point is clear, the entire bible’s theme is based God’s love and man’s redemption[salvation}it doesn’t matter the way you approach this theme as long as it drives this point of salvation and God’s love to people home I have no problem with you .The other presenter presented another controversial topic in our church about the gospel of prosperity, though some don’t want to even listen to this gospel, he said that there is still something we will learn from those preachers ,Faith. Do we have enough faith to believe that we will be saved by grace? He asked, we can also learn that though even Ellen white learned about salvation progressively we should avoid judging her or perceive her to be so legalistic at the beginning because even that legalism point of view led her to grow to the next level. may be her failure led her to entirely depend on God
The other commenter during this week eye opened the liberals that sometimes they don’t b need to on neck of the conservative because some truth is so perfect for one to be conservative on,I could also agree that we need to be so conservative on the truth about salvation. Lastly basing my comments on Woodrow book on Ellen white on salvation, the BRI readings and the bible in Romans 4:1 Abraham was justified by faith ,Romans chap 5 we have also been justified by faith and now we have peace with God and in chap 6 it warns us of misusing of this favor we have already received .while the law could condemn us grace purchased us hence our salvation depend entirely on God. It is a gift from him alone.
For Trung Hoang’s reflection
I fully agree with him, like very much about mentioning young people who are the future of our church. Nothing is more important than teaching, giving young people saving by faith. I am grateful for that.
For Vladimir Isaac’ reflection
‘Was Jesus like the Adam before and after the fall?’
I usually fell vague to deal with it, but now I find a real point of view on this. Thank you for providing me for the verses supporting it in the last paragraph
For Vladimir Isaac’ reflection
‘Was Jesus like the Adam before and after the fall?’
I usually fell vague to deal with it, but now I find a real point of view on this. Thank you for providing me for the verses supporting it in the last paragraph.
In our class discussion this week the issue of perfection was raised as to when man reaches the degree of perfection, and the answer was that there is no any sinful human being born of a woman who is perfect. It is only Christ who was and is perfect because of his incarnation. Friends I do believe that the perfect righteousness of Christ is the only answer to the sin problem in any man's life, and there is no single day in this world that we can live and be perfect like Christ. In the after live when Christ comes again our salvation will be complete and we shall be like him when our mortality shall put immortality and finally we will realize our perfection.
In Jesus Christ the divine initiative reaches a unique climax. He became one with us, sharing our lot, showing us what true humanity-humanity made in the image of God-is like. He suffered and was tested, struggling with the tempter. He in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin: (Romans 4:15). By word and life, by death and resurrection, the God-man Jesus Christ, brings the good news of God's love for us and the salvation He provides (John 3:16). Isaiah 64:6 says that “But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. I think that as Christians perfection is wholistic in the sense that Jesus’ sacrifice justified us 2000 years ago, and now we are the process of sanctification and finally when Christ comes we will attain our glorification.
I do agree with Piasi about salvation being God's work from the beginning to the end.
Hi brother Hyo Won
There is hope in jesus because of what he accomplised for us on the cross of calvary 2000 years ago. the final enemy to be destriyed is death at the second coming.
While discussing the issues raised by Paul in Romans 2:17-29 the conclusion was made that in this chapter Paul speaks about both laws, moral and ceremonial. The argument for the ceremonial law was drawn from the mentioning of the circumcision at the end of chapter 2 of Romans. As I was listening to that I must agree that it went a little bit against my traditional understanding of this text. When I came home I went back to the text in Romans two where Paul talks about circumcision and began to analyze the text trying to apply the principles that we use in this class, namely to read between the lines, and also to apply the holistic approach to the Biblical text.
First, I want to say that I do not necessarily disagree with the point made in class about the circumcision pointing towards the ceremonial law. After all, circumcision became one of the obligations of the ceremonial law. Having said that, I think that this was not the main point that Paul tried to get across in this passage. I think that the main point that Paul is arguing here is going back to the original meaning of circumcision. Paul is going all the way back to Genesis 17 when God made a covenant with Abraham that he will become the father of all nations, and as a sign of that covenant He asked Abraham to circumcise himself and all the males in his house. After that incident the circumcision became the sign of a physical Israel. The circumcision was the sign of belonging to Israel, being a true Jew in the flesh.
So, when Paul argues about circumcision he goes back to this incident. He is trying to get the point across to the Jews who thought that they were better than the Gentiles and will be saved unlike the Gentiles because they have the sign of circumcision in the flesh. Paul implies in the text that the Jews (at least some Jews) thought that having this sign would save them, even if they break the law. And Paul is saying to them that there is no value in being circumcised and not keeping the law, because even those who are not circumcised (Gentiles) by keeping the law would be looked upon as being circumcised. What does Paul mean by that? I think that he explains in the next few verses what he means by that. Paul goes into explaining the identity of the Jew. He says that a man is not a Jew if he is only outwardly, meaning circumcised, but a man is a Jew who is inwardly, meaning circumcised in heart.
So, when Paul says that even the Gentiles become circumcised by keeping the law, which is a symbolical language, he tells them that there is no more distinction between the Jews and the Gentiles according to the New Covenant, in which the Lord promises to write His laws on the hearts of the people (Jeremiah 31:31-33). I think that this is what Paul meant when he said that the circumcision is of the heart. Paul tells the Jews that the physical sign that have separated you form the Gentiles is not valid anymore and that now everyone becomes a part of spiritual Israel by accepting the new sign of the circumcision of heart. From now on salvation belongs to everyone and everyone can have the sign of belonging to the nation of God, spiritual Israel.
Trung Hoang
Reflection #2
Only if we were that special...
On Monday, someone brought it up and the class had a discussion about Acts 4:12, “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.” As someone comes from the root of the East, not familiar with the Western theology, I have thought about this a lot after my conversion. I heard preachers who preach this subject as if people are only by the “Western Jesus” or the “blond Jesus.” Or only through the “Westerner’s” lens of the Bible that people could be saved. I earnestly accepted the gift of God’s grace for my sinful life, but when I think about and for the people from East or everywhere in the world who have not heard about the Bible. Were the people saved or all were lost because they have not heard about the Bible.
If we claim that God is all omni(s) then why can’t be everywhere else other than Palestine. If we want people to believe about the God that we preach we must first let God be God. His love is more abounding and surpasses all our understanding. This is important because how great or just or small we treat our God that is how others will see God. Now, God’s characters cannot be changed by someone’s incomplete view of who He is, but as someone said, “we’re (our life) the only Bible that others would read.”
Why is this important to minister? Everything. In the mission classes, we learn how to study the people, the cultures, and the contexts to effectively deliver the gospel. It’s more than to achieve our goal of reaching people are not yet have heard the gospel of Christ. Why did Paul say in Romans 1:12 that he too “may be mutually encouraged” by the Romans? Over and over in his letters, Paul establishes his credential of his apostleship. Deservingly so, he has personal encounters with Christ himself and receives the command of Jesus to spread the gospel. The fact that Paul thinks he can learn something from the Romans shows the true worship of God. He knows what God has revealed to him, but he also know that God has shown to others too. If we are as Christians think deeply about our great God, who is just and shows no favoritism, we can see God in the unexpected places. While God calls Abraham out of Ur and used him to set example for the nations, I wonder if God also raises up many others around the earth to lead his children. This adds to my to-do list when Christ comes back. I want to meet everyone who Christ has used to spread his gospel (true salvation). Believe me, I’m not trying to take away anything that Christ has done, doing, and will do. I’m dare to diminish God’s grace through Christ. I just want us to magnify his vast glory which is beyond our understanding.
After saying all of this, I still believe in Christian’s responsibility to spread the good news of Christ. First reason is because Christ commanded. If I am saved and being transformed by the Savior, I too, want others to be saved for I should imitate Christ. Therefore, understanding the doctrine of Salvation wholistically is helpful in our own walk in Christ and helping others to come to him.
Being the second week of the discussion I have to be sincere that our discussion started becoming more complex, why ?because this is the week which the participants had to present a proposed research paper which they will write on this course[ the doctrine of salvation], hence our discussion could either go forward to where will cover or back to where we started our discussions, this depended on the topic the presenter had chosen, as it were in the time of bible translations from original manuscripts , in that process the language could differ depending on who was translating it but the entire meaning will not get lost .This applied to our discussion this week ,some of the presentations were so interesting to me as the presenters were trying to drive the point home.
One presenter aroused the sense of humor on the ongoing world cup tournament in South Africa, one question that popped in my mind in the beginning of this approach, was that is this gentleman for real or he is choking or else he has forgotten he has only five minutes to present his topic? but at the end of his five minutes presentation he drove his point on and it strike in our mind than any other presentations with pastors might use for instance most theologians like some introductions like saying my Greek, ,Hebrew , exegesis, or using several scriptures to drive the point home. He was actually relating that game to our journey of salvation.
I do understand that the bible is like a forest as one anonymous author said i.e. it has several themes ,contexts, stories etc but one point which is clear is that, but the major theme is based on God’s love to man and man’s redemption[salvation}it doesn’t matter the way you approach this theme as long as it drives this point of salvation and God’s love to people home the way God wants it to be, I have no problem with you .The other presenter presented another controversial topic in our church about the gospel of prosperity, though some don’t want to even listen l, he said that there is still something we will learn from those prosperity preachers ,their overwhelming faith to achieve what they want . In application he asked us that do we have that kind faith to believe that we will be saved by God’s grace?,
In the book- Ellen white on salvation, I discovered that even Ellen white learned about salvation by grace progressively .we should avoid judging her or perceive her to be so legalistic at the beginning of her ministry because even that legalism prayed a role towards her spiritual maturity. May be her efforts led her to a more understanding on salvation by grace.
One commenter during this week which eye opened the liberals vs. conservatives motion that sometimes they don’t b need to be on each other’s neck too much because neither extreme is good as dr. Hanna said. Holistic, thinking should be encouraged in any form of raising any kind of a controversial issue. Basing my comments on Woodrow book on Ellen white on salvation again, the BRI readings which I have been reading, I supported the idea of relying on the grace of God for our salvation.
The Bible in Romans 4:1 Abraham was justified by faith, in Romans chap 5 we have also been justified by faith and now we have peace with God and in Romans chap 6 it warns us now of the misusing of this favor we have already received .while the law was to condemn us, grace purchased us hence our salvation depends entirely on the grace of God.
I enjoyed the last weeks of class because it brings out a different angle on the way I used to see and understand the concept of salvation. The message of the cross is the true definition of salvation because without the cross mankind would have to pay the penalty of sin. The cross has profound meaning because of what it’s represented and who was on it, Jesus Christ the Son of God in the flesh. Jesus is the source of our hope, faith, and love and because He is our sustainer we have access to the gift of hope, faith, and love.
When thinking of the idea of salvation, we cannot help but explore the sacrifice that Jesus had to go through for a sinner like me to have access of salvation, it reminds me of how unworthy I am. Salvation is freely given to those who freely accept God in their life and live according to His will. Realizing that we are all sinners, there is no truth in anyone else but Jesus-Christ, repenting from our sins, understanding and accepting God's love demonstrated by sending His only begotten son, are a step to salvation in Jesus-Christ.
In Romans 6:23, Paul talks about “the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord". We are all sinners and according to Romans, our penalty is death. Nevertheless, praise be too God that His love is far greater than any other love that He did not want to let us perish. He loves us so much that He made a plan of salvation to redeem us from sin and giving us a second chance. We can see the plan of salvation continue to play in the life of his disciple. The book of acts reminds us that, "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." I strongly agree with this statement because salvation cannot be earned, it is the ultimate gifts of Jesus Christ as the only ultimate source of hope, faith, and love.
Overall, there’s nothing one can do extra to earn a place in the kingdom. The only way according to Paul, Ellen white, and my supplementary readings is through the blood of Christ spilled in the crossed of Calvary. We should not only look at the cross, but who is hanging in the cross, for without Him in the cross; the cross would not have any significance to us today.
I have always understood sin to be the transgression of the law and also a separation between the creator and mankind. Sin has a great impact on the way we view God and his character. He loves us so much that He created us in his image and his likeness with the ability to choose and with our own free will and desires. However, if His whole idea and plan was for us to live happy in his company, then why sin had to be introduce in the form of the tree of good and evil; why not just the tree of life.
The bible initiates sin as the breaking of God's law. In order words sin is more than an act, therefore, anyone who breaks the law sins because they know what the law is and they choose to disobey it. Paul, in the book of Romans, says we are all born as sinners and because of that we are condemned to die because that is the penalty of sin. God gives us the law as a mirror to help us see and understand what sin is.
If the laws of God given to Moses on Mt Sinai was not there according to Paul we all would be dead because the full price for sin is death; but thankfully we have a loving father who love his creation so much, was willing to send his only son to come, live, in a sinful world and paid the price that we his creation would have had to pay, which is death. Now because of this great act of love, we now have a brother and a friend who is worthy to sit at the right hand of his father making plans for our future and co-preparing our eternity for us.
Ellen White view on sin is very plain, sin is the transgression of the law, and this is the only definition of sin in the whole Bible, however, we have people who think otherwise, some says that the bible says in Romans 14:23 say that “for whatsoever is not of faith is sin” but this is not defining sin. This verse simply give us one account of sin but it not a clear definition of sin. Ellen White says sin is every act that disobeys God’s law, whether in thought, word or deed is a sin.
In closing, I believe our understanding of sin will greatly impact our salvation. I believe sin is what distances us from God. Sin forces us to march on the opposite direction from God. When we sin, we reject God completely and become our own master. When we sin, it is the same thing as putting a knife into God's heart. It is a rejection of His ultimate love for us. Sin is rejecting God in any form or way.
Response to Richard White's second assignment.
I really appreciate you bringing up this point. Even though it sounds a little bit controversial, I can see your point that salvation is not found in the cross or in the blood of Jesus but in the atonement of God's love. Having said that I would like to point out that love was the motivator for God to give up His life for us, but the blood is the essence of the atonement. It was so in the Old Testament with the blood of the sacrifice and it is so in the New Testament with the blood of Jesus. This point is really stressed in the book of Hebrews.
Response to Thomas Oyaro Ong'ou.
It is not a easy topic that you chose to speak on. Perfection is one of the hardest things to understand in the Bible, that is why I want to command you for talking about it. I have always thought like you that when we are changed from mortality to immortality we will achieve our perfection, but being in this class Dr. Hanna gave me some food for thought when he said that even when we get to heaven there will be room for growing. Does that mean that we don't achieve complete perfection at glorification or we are talking here about two different types of perfection? I think that we achieve sinless perfection at glorification but we will always mature in our spirituality.
Jared Miller Doctrine of Salvation
Reflection #2 6/18/10
Reflections on What I have Read
The BRI article by Larry Kane “Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal ‘Legal’ Justification” dismantled the positions held by the 1888 Message Study Committee. I like Kane’s approach. First he did a Bible study on the passages the 1888 MSC uses to support their view, and through his study he showed that the Bible does not say what the 1888 MSC thinks it says. Second and thirdly he used E. J. Waggoner’s own writings, and the writings of Ellen White to show that neither of them support the positions the 1888 MSC advocates.
The 1888 MSC thinks that people need to understand universal legal justification in order to liberate them from their fear and alienation of God (who is out apparently out to get them). I like how Kane showed that throughout the Bible, starting with immediately after Adam and Eve sinned, God took the initiative by coming to them with the desire to restore/reconcile the relationship. The text from Revelation 13:8 was quoted, which refers to Christ being the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. I think Kane did an excellent job of showing that by reading the Bible we can see that God loves humanity and wants to save as many as possible, and the false theories of the 1888 MSC are not needed to alleviate peoples’ fears.
I have enjoyed reading through Romans. I have a question about 5:14, which says, “Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.” My question is: what does Paul mean by saying death reigned over people “who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam”? What was the likeness of Adam’s sin that made it different that other human sin? Perhaps this question can be discussed in class, or someone can share their thoughts with me over this blog.
Woodrow Whidden’s book seems to be very balanced. Chapter 7 focused on the atonement, and I learned more about the moral influence theory. Whidden said that “in its most extreme form has been proclaimed that Christ’s death as a requirement of God’s justice (Christ’s death satisfying divine justice) was not necessary” (49). This extreme position strikes directly against the Bible’s teaching that the wages of sin is death, so Christ didn’t just die to show how much He loved us, He died for us, in our place, so that we would not have to die the second death, but could live with Him throughout eternity. Whidden shows how Ellen White taught that the cross showed “the supreme manifestation of God’s love” (49), but also emphasized that God’s law is changeless and in order to save us it’s penalty (death) had to be enforced (divine justice). Whidden shows us Ellen White’s balanced views which correct the extreme views of the moral influence theory, etc.
How What I have Read Relates to the Class Discussions
Whidden addressed the theories of atonement, which we also discussed in class. I am glad he covered this, as it helped me realize the above-mentioned extreme view of the moral influence theory. How do people that adhere to this extreme view understand salvation if Christ’s death only demonstrated His love for us? How is the sin problem resolved—as even humans who love God must pay the penalty of their own sin (the second death) if Christ was not our substitute. I like how Dr. Hanna balanced these views as well, and took the good things from both—as Christ is our substitute and our example. The either/or mentality is a strong one in Adventism. I appreciate the holistic view presented in class where it doesn’t always have to be either/or, rather it is often both/and.
I agree with Joel that sin is what distances us from God (Isa. 59:1-2). I also like your point about the substitutionary sacrifice of Christ. Indeed, the Father loves us so much He sent His Son to be our substitute so we could have eternal life.
Response to Joe l Brisson’S contribution,
I totally agree with your new perspective you have received in our discussions, if coming to the seminary means that we only come to confirm what we already know or just getting our degrees for our own selfish interests, then I think we are becoming poor stewards of God’s time .but when we learn new ideas then we are on the right track. Share that story to others too………..redeemed how I love to proclaim it!
Response #1 to Jared Miller's #2:
Jared, I agree with the observation that Dr. Hanna's class has brought up a whole new perspective on the typical either/or question. It's nice, isn't it?
I want to take a stab at your question about Romans 5:14. Adam's individual sin was very deliberate and intentional against God's law, a lack of faith in God (as learned from Patriarchs and Prophets). Not all sins are that way; consider David, who didn't even realize that he had slipped into sin until Nathan brought it to his attention. So, David and Adam had two completely different "likenesses" to their sin, but both still sinned. That's how I read the text at least.
Response to Michael Taylor’s contribution,
I totally agree with what you said about Abraham ,he was justified by faith even before his circumsation,it implies that God had already chosen him even before he knew, this brings into our attention the concept of our predestined salvation.Jer:29:11for I know the plans I have for you ,’’declares the lord ,’’plans to prosper you and not to harm you ,plans to give you hope and a future.
Vladimir Isaac
Reaction #2
Adam and Human Race in the Writings of Ellen G. White, by Angel Manuel Rodriguez
I definitely enjoy the article of Angel Manuel about Adam and the human race in the writing of Ellen G. Writhe. I like the way the author explain the pollution that Adam’s sin has made in the human race. God placed Adam in the garden as the chief manager of the earth. The Lord gave him the authority to govern on everything that he has created. In addition, God also gives to Adam the right to name to his own creatures because of he trusted him. I wonder if anyone has ever think about how far goes the faithfulness in us. God the creator of everything gives authority and power to one of his precious creature that is created at his image the title to rule over all his earthly creation. It is not mentioned in the bible, but Ellen G. White has mentioned in her writings that Eden was the physical academic place where God meets with Adam to give instruction about everything even the universe. In other words, Adam was aware may be not fully yet, about the great controversy that exists between God and Satan. I strongly believe that his faithful in everything. Therefore, God will never ask his children to do anything without to give any information. The fact that God put in the garden the defended tree this implicit that he has gave the both Adam and Eve enough information about the circumstances that will happen if they disobeyed his commandment. Here is another point I would like to make in this case. God always used human language or figure to communicate to man. In other words, since Adam was created at God’s image that implicit also that God has used proportional language to teach his creature. Meaning that the language spoken at that time between God and man was very clear and understood. Unfortunately Adam chose to follow his own desire, his own heart, and feeling. When sin penetrates in the space between God and man it creates automatically an urge gap. The relationship that used to exist between God and man is no longer. Even the type of language is no longer exists since man becomes independent of God going on his own way to nowhere. Sin has polluted the lovely relationship that exists between the creator and the creature. Ellen G. White comments that Adam’s sin has caused that all human beings are become sinner. Because of one man all human beings has become sinner, therefore for one man also everyone will be justified. This man is Jesus accepts to take human form in order to continue to communicate to man the love of God for humanity. I want to precise that the fact that all became sinner does not mean that we are all made the same sin of Adam. At the other hand, what makes us sinner is the fact that we come to the root of Adam. All trees bear fruit according to its root. Therefore, everything that comes from a root has the same trait of character. It’s to say that we are all sinners because of our father Adam who is Adam is our root; therefore, we have the same characteristic like him. We need like Adam and Eve we a dishwasher to cleanse our sins. We need an intercessor that can stand between God and us, and plead on our behalf. This intercessor is Jesus our savior. Only him is able to wash our sin, and gives us salvation by accepting his blood that he had shed on the cross for you and for me. Today if you and I are infected by sin, or have a sinner’s nature is because Adam our father has failed to remain faithful to God’s commandment. Grace is giving now to any of us when we accept to enter in communion with Christ. Since we agree to get back in a lovely relationship with God by accepting Christ’s sacrifice does we need to remain faithful on his commandments. Question now, can keep the commandments can assure to remain faithful to God? The answer is your.
In response to brother Vladimir's Reflection 2.
I did read the same article and I do agree with you that we did not share in Adam's sin by "being in him" in some mystical way but by the fact he is our ancestor and the father of the human race. Good reflection brother!
The issue of salvation is a big one. Having heard Hanna’s model, I have often heard it differently in other circles.My focus is simply a reflection of my own conversion in parallel to that of Ellen Whites as described in our textbook by Whidden.
Sitting in class, I reminisced what Hanna was saying about depression being a modern phenomena of ancient flagellation. I too have felt this personally in my walk with God where I have felt that God could not reach me because of compulsive sinning. It is by the grace of God that I am here, still. Yet, sitting in class, I had flashbacks of recent memories of feeling guilty, if not depressed, for failing once again to the standard of Christianity, let alone a pastor. It seems this rollercoaster is an ever tumbling ride.
Ellen White seemed to have a similar experience in her journey gone rollercoaster, but in a more vigorous manner. “Feeling that she ‘could never become worthy to be called a child of God’…She was so burdened that she confided to her brother Robert that she had ‘coveted death’ in the days when life seemed so burdensome” (16, Whidden). I don’t think I have every coveted death because of my shortcoming but I somehow realized in reading this excerpt how similar Ellen White’s (and maybe you as well) Christian Walk was/is to my own. Honestly, it kind of felt reassuring that I was not the only one to encounter such a separation with God at one point in my life. But it doesn’t end there. “During this deeply spiritual season she came to understand that she had been indulging in ‘self-dependence’”(16, Whidden).
This is where I remember telling God that I wanted to leave Him forever because I couldn’t handle the high expectations of being a Christian. It was too high a calling and not for a sinner like myself. As I read the following passage I realized I had the same problem as did Mrs. White. “She was longing to be ‘utterly accepted by God,’ but she was frustrated by her own lack of feeling” (18, Whidden). I also realized that I was honing in on a feeling of acceptance instead of a communicative, experienced, and transparent one. This is where my path strayed from Mrs. White. “He (Elder Stockman) comforted her with the thought that ‘hardened’ sinners would not be experiencing such deep convictions” (19, Whiddens). I found my assurance through a different medium via School of Hard Knocks, but I came to the same conclusion as did Ellen with the help of Elder Stockman.
It really is a blessing to realize the power behind the name of Jesus. Moreover, the assurance that comes with this relationship as Ellen experience when she was met with adversity. “At church trial in which she and her family were put out of the Methodist Church, she testified that she was not ‘conscious of any wrong,’ a classical evidence of the ‘second blessing’” (20, Whidden).
When you are placed outside of the church for some reason, many will feel they are rejected by the body of Christ, and in some instances, rejected by God. Not for Ellen. Through her personal struggle and battle with ‘self-reliance’, she came to realize it was because of what Christ has done, and not anything that she had done that gave her the assurance of salvation; nothing could take that away from her.
I would like to conclude this by quoting from an article I read in the BRI titled ‘The Dynamics of Salvation’ (the last paragraph before Section 1) and then I will end with a text in Romans 1.
“This good news, the gospel, is so utterly different from human modes of thought that it is startling. It is easily distorted or lost or obscured-even by theological debate. Therefore it must be told and retold, probed ever more deeply, heard once and ever anew.”
Moreover, “we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for the sake of his name, including yourselves who are called to belong to Jesus Christ” Romans 1:5-6.
Comment on Brother Joel Brisson's Reflection dated 6/18
I find it true that our understanding of sin will greatly impact our salvation and that when sin is given opportunity it teaches us to be self centered and self serving. I believe the subject's understanding is important and that is reason why the bible addresses it. I appreciate your reflection.
however, I had a difficulty trying to understand what you meant in paragraph three of your reflection i.e. how you related the law and salvation. perhaphs if it was an oversight you may need to look again at it.
Response to Joel Brisson on 6/18
I agree that sin is a terrible thing and is well outlined in Scripture. Since Adam, the human race has fallen short of perfection that could only be atoned for by the blood of Jesus Christ. But there is more to our actions that separate us from God; it is also our fallen nature that is not necessarily and directly our fault. Whidden quotes Ellen White well when he says that, "Sin was defined as both ACTS of transgressing God's will (1SM 320) and a CONDITION of depravity that involves inherited sinful 'propensities,' 'inclinations', 'tendencies' and a bent to sin (that is, inbred or indwelling sin) (5BC 1128; Ed 29; IHP 195" (pg.41).
I'm glad God makes up for the mess that Adam and even we continually conjure up.
I like Piasi’s point that we should avoid the extremes of both liberals and conservatives. Instead of either/or thinking, it’s better to have holistic thinking and take the good things from both the liberals and the conservative. I also appreciated Piasi’s emphasizing that we must rely on God’s grace for salvation—not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Richard M. White
Assignment #3
June 17, 2010
I shall rejoice in my Perfection in Him.
After reading chapters 10 to 13 in the book of Romans, chapters 13 to 16 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, and the following BHI articles; Some Theological Consideration of Perfection by Edward Heppenstall, I shall rejoice in my perfection in him.
For years I have been told that I could not attain perfection. This was not only told to me by collogues but also learned Christians. After the discussion in class for the last two days, I realize that these counselors were partly right. I cannot be perfect if I try to be perfect, but I can be perfect in Christ Jesus, and what better way to be perfect.
To first under the meaning of perfection, I had to do away with my cardinal definition of what perfection is. As Woodrow W. Whidden II in his book Ellen White on Salvation page 152, noted “the word perfection is often thought of as only applying to absolute, antiseptic sinlessness-nothing less, nothing more. Such a view is static and usually deals only with specific actions, habits, and behaviors.” This was my view of perfection. After several attempts I found it was fruitless, because there was always something I was lacking to do to be perfect. Thanks Dr. Hanna’s class and the revelation from God, I now realize perfection is not found in me, it is found in Jesus Christ. My work is to repent and trust in His saving merits. At that moment, as Ellen White puts it, I am reckoned as completely perfect in Him. (Ellen White on Salvation, Pg. 153)
To recap Professor Hanna’s illustration in class over the past two days, the moment we accept Jesus Christ as our personal savior, we become justified in Him. We are 100% Perfect. Then as we grow in sanctification we are made perfect in every step of the way. This is what Paul talks about Philippians 3:12 “Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.” I press on… It is in this pressing on, forgetting what is behind, that I grow in the grace that our LORD Jesus Christ has afforded me. This grace which is also granted in justification continues to sanctification and on to glorification. Glorification comes after the second coming of Christ, where we continue to press on to reflecting the character of Christ to the ceaseless time of eternity. At no time we should stop pressing on in the perfection that come from Jesus Christ.
Perfection is not an end in itself, but a process. This has been my misunderstanding of perfection. I believe it was an end in itself, and that I could attains it here on earth. Furthermore, I even thought that I need to attain it before I would be accepted by God into heaven. I misinterpreted the scriptures when Jesus said “Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.” (Matthew 5:48) I came up with the inaccurate definition that I needed to be perfect as Christ was perfect. I thought I had to work to be perfect. Now I realize that this perfection is Jesus Christ perfection and not mine. He makes me perfect and then I live in obedience and love for Him. I hope and pray that we can see His perfection in us.
A reflection in perfection.
Thank you Sevilla for your recent submission. I am glad to know that I am not along in the struggle t please. I too have felt to give up being a Christian because I could never be what a true Christian is. I have also found hope in Mrs. White’s writing and for that I thank God every day, to know that one of his prophets too struggle as I do. But I have this him now renewed due to Dr. Hanna’s class. Thank God.
Response to Jonathan Martin on “Sinless Perfection”
Great point of view. I too have struggled with this issue of perfection. I too agree that the work sinless and perfection should place together, as you alluded to in you comment. We will never be sinless. We will always be sinner until our Savior arrives. However, we are perfect in Jesus Christ. As long as we are in Jesus and growing in His grace we are sanctified in Him and we are perfect more and more each day. Pressing on the higher calling. We are not immune from committing a sin as we grow, but the focus should never be on the sin but on Jesus, and He is able to keep us from sinning.
Response to Jonathan Martin
Well said Jonathan! I chuckled as I read your reflection on the conversation you had with this individual. Not long ago I chatted with someone who told me with much enthusiasm, that she was working on perfection and that she was almost there. Needless to say that even though I knew something was not right about what she said, I didn’t know what to say then, so I just nodded seemingly in support of what she said. The ability to determine perfection, especially in ourselves is beyond us. As Dr. Hanna said in class the ones who are considered perfect in the eyes of God, never come to the conclusion that they are perfect by looking at themselves. Instead they are busy seeing the beauty in Christ’s character. It is through this process they are led to see the flaws of their own character and are led to say like Paul ‘O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Assignment #1
Assignment #1
Ricardo Woolcock
The most interesting thing to me about our discussion in class for the first week was how we should suppossedly look at passages of scripture:
Litteralistic
Vs.
Symbolic
The Break down, to my understanding, of litteralistic is looking at scripture as it reads right before our very eyes, not adding anything to it not taking away anything from it, just as it reads. If this is literalistic understanding of scripture then this is it, this is the way scripture should be read and understood just as just as we read it. To approach scripture with the understanding that what I am about to read is not going to be what I am reading Is problamatic on many different levels.
1st I cannot truly know by a reading of scripture what Gods will is.
If scripture is the purest source of knowledge we have in relating to God and spiritual things and how we should live out our christian lives here on this earth, and I mean for christians in general, Christian conduct , then those scriptures must be easily understood; thus the scriptures are as they read, they must be or the Bible is not the purest or simplest source.
2nd Gives credence to the notion that Only theSeminary educated are equpped to understand scripture, and rightly divide the word of turth.
You can just imagine all the interpretaions of scripture that would be out there if passages of scripture were not to be understood just as we read it. We already have many denominations and within those many different beliefs already just imagine how many more people would claim to be Jesus, and how many more Heavens gate cults, if we did not have and were able to understand a clear thus saith the Lord. Did the Roman Catholic church have it correct when they outlawed the reading of scripture by anyone except the clergy because they were the only ones that really understood scripture? I think the Millerites, most not seminary educated, and the poineers of the SDA church, as do all of us say no.
The problem arises when we just read one piece of scripture and we rest there and come to some holistic conclusion on the matter without reading other passages of scripture that speak on the same matterial. I believe we should look at the Bible in its entirety understanding that there is a literal and a symbolic side to the Bible, but when we open up the Bible and we read that “ the morning and the evening were the 1st day” then thats what we should believe; and as we read more on the creation event in other passages of scripture we should read those litteralistically as well, and when and if there are seeming contridictions then syenthesize, but let the passage read as it reads.
Response to Richards post on perfection
Ricardo Woolcock
Its always refreshing to read that one of Gods children has renewed hope in thier status and standing with God. I particularly like your acknoledgement that the youth are indeed our future and we need to teach them well. I would say that they are our present and we should be mentoring and discipling them even now, they have the audience of the world.
Rico
Reponse to Michale Taylor reflection #1
Back to the basics was great advice, I like to keep it at the basics. I believe if you keep it basic then you have accomplished the Gospel. to the masses Jesus was not deep, from what I read, keep it basic. Our studies should go deep but our message should be basic. I find it interesting that it was on Ellens death bed that she was fearful of death because she didnt have a basic understanding of her salvation, but when she understood justification, and had the assurance of salvation, God told her I have a vision for you.
Keep it basic...I agree
Rico
response to Gendahie
to me salvation is still a mystery, I mean i know how we get salvation, and what salvation is but in terms of the lost, and how that reflects on the character of God, being good, loving and kind, and this grace thing you talk about, the lost wont experience any of that....salvation humm what is it.... just my thoughts
rico
I like the emphasis richard put on the savior rather than the saving. we must be jesus freaks in order to convery this message
rico
Respone to cesar
I trully appreciated the detail that you put in your response to your findings,but i dont see how, or the union between the divine and the human in nature, what are your thoughts?
rico
Assignment #1
Ricardo Woolcock
The most interesting thing to me about our discussion in class for the first week was how we should suppossedly look at passages of scripture:
Litteralistic
Vs.
Symbolic
The Break down, to my understanding, of litteralistic is looking at scripture as it reads right before our very eyes, not adding anything to it not taking away anything from it, just as it reads. If this is literalistic understanding of scripture then this is it, this is the way scripture should be read and understood just as just as we read it. To approach scripture with the understanding that what I am about to read is not going to be what I am reading Is problamatic on many different levels.
1st I cannot truly know by a reading of scripture what Gods will is.
If scripture is the purest source of knowledge we have in relating to God and spiritual things and how we should live out our christian lives here on this earth, and I mean for christians in general, Christian conduct , then those scriptures must be easily understood; thus the scriptures are as they read, they must be or the Bible is not the purest or simplest source.
2nd Gives credence to the notion that Only theSeminary educated are equpped to understand scripture, and rightly divide the word of turth.
You can just imagine all the interpretaions of scripture that would be out there if passages of scripture were not to be understood just as we read it. We already have many denominations and within those many different beliefs already just imagine how many more people would claim to be Jesus, and how many more Heavens gate cults, if we did not have and were able to understand a clear thus saith the Lord. Did the Roman Catholic church have it correct when they outlawed the reading of scripture by anyone except the clergy because they were the only ones that really understood scripture? I think the Millerites, most not seminary educated, and the poineers of the SDA church, as do all of us say no.
The problem arises when we just read one piece of scripture and we rest there and come to some holistic conclusion on the matter without reading other passages of scripture that speak on the same matterial. I believe we should look at the Bible in its entirety understanding that there is a literal and a symbolic side to the Bible, but when we open up the Bible and we read that “ the morning and the evening were the 1st day” then thats what we should believe; and as we read more on the creation event in other passages of scripture we should read those litteralistically as well, and when and if there are seeming contridictions then syenthesize, but let the passage read as it reads.
Response to bigogo....
It's interesting that the terms "in Adam" and "in Christ" are not in the Bible at all. I agree that the idea that every human being was in Adam when he sinned is confusing and it may lead to many theological problems. We're Adam's descendants. We inhere the consequence from original sin, but God will judge Adam and us differently according to each person.
Response to Richard M. White
Assignment #2 Salvation found not in the Cross or the Blood but in the atonement of God’s Love
It's amazing to hear how many people still believe that the cross, or statue, or any physical materials have any power to save. The lady in the gospel touched Jesus' garment didn't get heal because his cloth is more holy. She got healed because of faith in Jesus' power and his compassion to heal her. Same principle can be found the book of Acts. The sick believed what God can do through the apostles and what the apostle themselves can do. God's salvation is more complex and more powerful than just physical objects.
In response to Wilking,
It is true that Faith Hope and Love are integral parts of our life as you have mentioned. I appreciate the fact that you have quoted Ellen White and the book of James to point out that there needs to be a balance in all of this. We need to exercise the faith, hope, and love.
In response to Cesar,
I am sure we can all agree with your situation of wanting to change the law for our benefit, and to also rationalize things in our favor. I agree with you that Christ did give a new meaning to law that is fundamentally different from what we had before. May Christ continue to change us!
In response to brother White,
I thank God for this great opportunity that he gives me to be here at Andrews in preparation to become a better servant and Christian. Since long time ago I usually have in mind that perfection is something that I will never get in my life since only God is perfect. It is partly true though, but I understand now I can also perfect like Jesus is. The only think I need to be aware to not be fool in thinking that I can get it by myself. Like you said brother White, according to the last class discussion, is possible to be perfect if we stay connected to Jesus Christ the source of perfection.
In response to 6/17/2010 4:29 PM Thomas Oyaro Ong'ou
I agree with you when you said Christ is the only perfect one because of his incarnation. I believe the only reason that Jesus Christ is perfect was because of His connection with the His father. If He was not connected with the His father He would not be perfect.
In response to Ricardo Woolcock
I really enjoyed this teaching of our previous classes discussion. It brings me to think about a church I know that is extremely conformist. The people over there took everything literal. They don't allow certain things not because the bible says so, but according to their tradition and their vision. They are worse than the Pharisees, but they cannot see that.I think as pastors we have a lot of jobs to do than we think. I believe that one of the most important things that a pastor needs to do in his ministry, which very crucial, is to teach the people in the church how to become and maintain a good relationship with God without any form of exaggeration. To teach them also how to read and interpret the bible both literally and symbolically.
Response to Wilkin Jean
Wilkin I like the point you made about the fact that we do not have to be perfect to be counted righteous. However, I am often puzzled that though we know this theoretically, yet in the practical sense we are sometimes unable to reconcile this with our act. By this I mean there is still the tendency to ‘perform’, and as one performs the idea behind the performance is that in performing one is adding to the celestial bank of good deeds. The belief is that at some point one will receive rich dividends. One cannot live outside the commands of God, yet it is vital that one focuses on the conditions surrounding obedience to the commandments. As you have reiterated, “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by according to His mercy He (Christ) saved us”.
Vladimir Isaac
Assignment #3
Article: The Dynamics of Salvation
By definition salvation is simply mean the action of save. In reading the article entitled Dynamics of Salvation, and listening to professor Hanna about this topic I definitely understand the true meaning about salvation. We are serving a God who plans ahead for us before even our existence. Does God know what will happen shortly after creating man? There was a perfect harmony in heaven Ellen White comments. Lucifer was the head chief of the angels. He had the responsibility to bring angels by group before the big throne of the universe to worship God. He was lifted up in the highest position in heaven among the angels. He was a beautiful angel with a large forehead that represents a special knowledge that he had. The angels had great admiration for him, and had showed him great respect for his beauty and special knowledge. But one day, he decided to do something else. He was so jealous of Christ; he wished to take Chris’s position by sitting also on a throne and be able to participate in everything that the trinity is planning to do. He began to campaign hardly against the trinity’s government. As a result of his rebellion God did not chase him from heaven, but threw him away like a trash. He established then on earth after causing man to disobeyed God’s commandment. We became therefore under his authority at the same time we give him the opportunity to continue his campaign against God on earth. Does God was aware about that?
Nothing can surprise God. He was certainly aware about the situation. The only reason that the Lord allowed this happened is because of the free will that he gives to his creatures. In other words, there are two things that God will not be able. (1) God cannot violate his word. No matter what happened the world will not passed without the word of God has been fulfilled. (2) God will never take away our free will. He gives us the opportunity to accept or reject him according to our heart. I bring this picture to the table in the perspective to lift up in the highest level the importance of the salvation’s plan in the life of anyone that accepts to stand with God. After Adam’s sin man is subject of death. Death for Adam had disobeyed to God’s commandment. But now since Jesus took the penalty of death for us we are free from sin. God in a special way has provided the death of Christ in our place. We are not saved for our works or our science pretending knowing God. I am going a little further then, we are not even saved by the blood of Christ says brother White. Other than anyone can be willing to shed his blood for someone else. Neither the cross should not be the culminant point of our salvation since it was a custom for thieves and criminals to be crucified on cross under the Roman Empire. We are just saved because Christ, the King of kings and the Creator of the universe had accepted to humble himself as God and to bear on his shoulders the sins of all human beings that accept his sacrifice. In other words, what makes the sacrifice to be a sacrifice is because Christ on the cross has taken away his royal garment to dress with the dirtiest dress ever for our sake. He does not have the obligation to do such thing, but for his love for us has no limitation he was voluntary to take the sentence. Another thing that back up strongly the salvation’s plan is the faithfulness of Christ. We should ever forget that. We are saved as followers of Christ for he is faithful on his promise. How about us? Can we be faithful Him? This decision is ours.
Reflection #2
100% Salvation by Faith
Doctrines are established to set forth a standard of belief among people who share some commonalities. But sometimes doctrines divide instead of foster unity. The fact that doctrines are more than a set of standardize beliefs is often over-looked. The reality is that doctrines reveal various attributes of the character of God. While the doctrine of the Godhead illustrates the Holy, Omni persona of God, and the doctrine of man reveals His creating power, the doctrine of salvation reveals the unconditional love of God for fallen humanity.
The doctrine of salvation is sometimes misunderstood, and even manipulated to fit into individuals’ ideal. One would hardly disagree with the general understanding that salvation is God’s method of reconciling sinful man to Himself. However, it is the process of salvation that is often misunderstood. Questionings like: Does once saved means always saved? Or, Am I justified by faith in Christ, or am I justified by my works of keeping the commandments? Is one saved by faith, or by works? Such are just a few of the questions that surface in discussions surrounding salvation. The contemporary minds, without insight into some of the issues that faced the church centuries ago, might wonder if they are unique in their thinking. But history records events like the 1888 Minneapolis Conference in which some church leaders wrestled with understanding the subject of righteousness by faith as it pertain to the salvation of man. The results of such wrestling has cemented the reality that salvation is found in none other than Christ and it is a gift made available to anyone willing to accept this gift.
The initial experience of salvation where one accepts Christ through repentance and confession entails completeness in the sense that, should the individual cease to be (die) at the time of acceptance that individual would share the ultimate result of salvation-eternal life. On the other hand, if the person’s life is prolonged, the next phase of salvation is embarked on. This phase referred to as sanctification is the process in which one, through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit lives in obedience to the command of God.
The matter of sanctification is a progressive, individual process governed by the precepts of God’s law. Yet it is interesting to know that while everyone is evaluated by the fixed standard of the law, every individual evaluation is unique and each one (whose focus is fixed on Christ) experience one hundred percent sanctification at the level he or she is at. It is hard to fully understand this process in view of the mathematical implication of one hundred percent, but the matter of salvation is that of faith and faith cannot be reasoned or understood from a human perspective.
Reaction No. 2
After the fall, the bible reveals that God provided a solution for the salvation of mankind from eternal damnation (the wrath of God). This solution involved the death of Christ on the cross as Paul implicitly records; “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” (Rom. 5:8). One is hereby bound to radically question; having created man with inherent ability or the will to choose between right and wrong, “Is it possible that God had foreknowledge of man’s probability to fall into sin through disobedience, and as a result provided Christ to die and redeem mankind as “the lamb slain from the foundation of the world?” (Rev. 5:12). Presumably, God created man with the option of choosing between right and wrong through the exercise of will power. Man, had definitely never known the results of evil for he had been created in the presence of God‘s perfect goodness. Man seemed to have experimented with that which God had not intended for giving him the freedom to choose between right and wrong. If at all God fore-knew that man cold for sure fall into sin if he (man) did disobey which of course he did, “was Christ’s death on the cross not an intentional act to later display the result of disobedience, the deception of Satan, and the magnitude of His love to mankind ?”
Having had a few of such questions running through my mind, I truly appreciate that Professor Hannah has indeed helped me to see the wholistic approach in trying to wrestle with them. It is for sure that God did not create mankind as a robot, but rather in His own image implicitly drawing the idea of rational beings with the ability to make decisions by will power. May be God’s intention of creating mankind with room for freedom was that man become arbitrary in choosing his own destiny without God being seen as the influencing or dictating power. Literally, the problem does not lie in the ability to make choice that God has bestowed upon us, but rather the choice that we make. Though created with an intuitive room to make decision, it was not imperative that man choose disobedience for God had already provided enough instruction to cushion him from the awful results of a wrong choice. God in His sovereignty has ever used will power to choose what is right. The death of Christ on the cross reveals the awfulness of wrong choice and thus directs us to the benefits of right choice.
Response to Vladimir Isaac 1st Reflection
i am completely agree with in this manner about the greatest paradox human can ever fully comprehend. "How come Jesus can be like the Adam after the fall since he is God? I believe that this one of the greatest paradoxes that all human beings have to accept it as it is. But, let try to figure out how come Jesus can be considered as a sinner."
Response to Nyarige Reaction # 2
I really appreciate the clarification you made on the power of human will. You have done a great job.
Assignment # 3
“Sanctification is the progressive work of a lifetime. The Lord declares, "This is the will of God, even your sanctification." Is it your will that your desires and inclinations shall be brought into conformity to the divine will? As Christians, we have pledged ourselves to realize and fulfill our responsibilities, and to show to the world that we have a close connection with God. Thus, through the godly words and works of His disciples, Christ is to be represented.” We can see clearly in Mrs. White writings that she gave a full endorsement to Jesus in her writings and in ways that confirmed her to be a qualified prophet. Dr. Hanna mentions in chapter “For Ellen White, the Christ-centered connections of divine and human persons involve three overlapping themes of Scripture….” What impresses me is the involvement of Christ with human on this earth to restore our image. “Christ had not exchanged His divinity for humanity; but he had clothed His divinity in humanity (Sanctification).” “He veiled His divinity with the garb of humanity, but he did not part with his divinity.” “This is why, although he was tempted in all points like as we are, He stood before the world, from his first entrance into it, untainted by corruption, though surrounded by it.” One of the reasons I think Christ did not sin is because He was connected with His father while He was on earth. Christ came to the sinful world to show us; we can live in a sinful world without committing sin. If we are truly connected with God through Him; we can say that we are on the right track for sanctification. Now I have a new view about sanctification, I used to think that there is level I need to reach before Christ return. Since justification and sanctification overlapping each other; we can say that the final product is glorification which we will receive when Christ return. “The light given me of God places this important subject above any question in my mind. Justification is wholly of grace and not procured by any works that fallen man can do.”
Response to Ghenadie's 1st post:
I definitely appreciate you commenting on the importance of free will in the doctrine of salvation. We haven't spent too much time in class on this subject, but it is somthing that shouldn't be overlooked. Free-will flows from the love of God, which is the foundation of the gospel message. Thanks for your post!
Response to Jasmine's first post:
When you said that salvation is not a singular utopian experience, nor a process of performance, you hit it right on the nail. People really do want to make it one or the other, but in reality it's a blending of both. I never understand why people want to take things to extremes...
Response to Edgar's first post:
Edgar, I completely agree with your statement that we need to get back to the basics. If we don't have the foundation right, the structure we build will not be right.
Response to Cesar's third post:
When you talked about our tendancy to rationalize our sins, I completely related! We are horrible, wretched sinners. Your illustration about the officer who's daughter was killed is absolutely perfect. We killed the son of God, and yet we want to rationalize our actions...
Wilking Jean has mentioned that he used to believe that he must reach a certain level of sanctification before Christ will return. This appears to be a common belief for many Christians. As I reflect on my continual stumbling and falls back into sin, I am delighted to understand that Christ's return will not hinge on my behavior!!!
Brother Taylor,
I agree with you when you said, "getting on the ground level". It important to start at the ground level because it allow us to meet our brothers and sister at the level where they are and prevent us from passing judgements to others.
In Response to Wilking Jean
It was good to read that the H.G. has done it again, It has given us assurance in Jesus. what do you think is the reason we can not go to heaven without justification
and
by whom did Jesus Garb His humanity with Divinity?
Respone to Nyargie
I think it will always be a mystery why God allowed all of this to happen, when He knew before all of the details of history, present and future. When we get to heaven we can ask him, for now I just rest in His faith knowing that God is good, all the time.
The issue of whether we are saved by the cross and the blood or Jesus has come up a few times in our discussions. And it is important that I add a point of clarification lest the blood and cross of Christ “is made ineffective” (1 Cor 1:17).
Actually, the message of the cross is the power of God (1 Cor 1:17). We should boast in the cross of Christ by which the world is crucified to us and we are crucified to the world (Gal 6:14). Christ has reconciled us through the cross (Eph 2:16). He made peace through the blood of his cross (Col 1:20). Jesus is our mercy seat by his blood (Rom 3:25).
We are justified by his blood (Rom 5:9). We have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins (Eph 1:7; Col 1:14). We are brought near to God by his blood (Eph 2:13). The blood of Christ will cleanse your conscience (Heb 9:14). We have remission of sins by his blood (Heb 9:22). We have boldness by the blood (Heb 10:19). We are sanctified by the blood of Jesus (Heb 13:12).
What then is the point of the presentation I made in class? The point is this. We can be literalistic and legalistic even in our interpretation of the blood and the cross of Christ. In this way we miss the literal meaning of the blood and the cross. This literal meaning is communicated by the figure of speech called synecdoche. According to this figure of speech the part is used to refer to the whole.
So the literal meaning of the biblical references to the blood and cross of Christ is deeper that the surface meaning of blood and cross. No one collected the blood that flowed from Jesus so that by physically touching that blood salvation is made available to us. The wood of the actual cross on which he died has not been preserved so that by touching it we may receive salvation.
And yet, there is power in the blood and in the cross! Wonder working power! How so? Because the blood and the cross are representative of the whole of who Jesus is and what he has done for us. He is the eternal God who became flesh and poured out his blood on the cross and was resurrected and lives eternally as our Savior. This is the literal message of the blood and the cross.
This is not a symbolic interpretation that leaves behind the literal reality of blood and cross. Neither is it literalism and legalism that degenerates to superstitious veneration of the bloody cross as an end in itself. Rather, the blood and the cross was a means to an end which is salvation through the Christ who lived, and died and lives again (Rev 1:18). This is the literal message of the blood and the cross that we are called to preach. So my brothers and sisters, preach it!
Response #2 to sevilla's reflection on 6/18.
I know that many people share your struggles with sin and salvation, and I was also blessed by reading that even Ellen White struggled with salvation. I can't help but wonder if I have ever been that preacher who's calls to obedience were so strong that I cause the members (and especially the visitors) to question God's love for them. To preach God's high standards without also preaching the "In Christ" truth has scared many away from the church altogether; and I too am thankful for the models taught in class.
Response #2b to Dr. Hanna #1
So, just a follow-up question. Because the cross has such profound symbolism, how do you feel about individual Christians putting up the symbol of the cross in their house/car/attire/etc.? What about Christian congregations displaying the sign of the cross in their churches? While we all know that they're not showing off THE cross upon which our Savior was crucified, it does create a strong emotional response.
Bledi Leno
Reflection #1
In my first reading assignment I was impressed by a topic within the doctrine of Salvation and that was ‘Christian character perfection’. My attention was drawn unto this topic due to the fact that I have, in many instances, seen and witnessed to the passionate manner that many christians and specifically some within the Seventh-day Adventists, interpret and live out based on that interpretation.
In Philippians 3:12-13 and 3:20-21 we read: Not that I have already attained this – that is, I have not already been perfected – but I strive to lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus also laid hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself to have attained this. Instead I am single-minded: Forgetting the things that are behind and reaching out for the things that are ahead….20 But our citizenship is in heaven – and we also await a savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform these humble bodies of ours into the likeness of his glorious body by means of that power by which he is able to subject all things to himself.
Who could attain any more than this? Paul had an encounter with the risen Christ and that experience opened his eyes to the fact that he had not arrived at all. He was not furthering the work of God; he was opposed to it. He had not arrived, he was not even on the right path. He was going in the wrong direction!
Having come to faith in Christ for his salvation, Paul knew that he was on the right path and going in the right direction. But he also realized that he had not yet arrived, and that there was a difficult course ahead, which required perseverance and discipline.
Some of our brethren justify their position in the writings of Ellen G White and defend the idea that a Christian has a single goal in life, i.e. perfecting one’s character. I found interesting in the assigned reading the following statements on this matter, explaining the position of Ellen G White:
Though there were significant modifications of the details of the Holiness experience, her teachings would always give great accent to the importance of sanctification and perfection. Her ministry in coming years would move her more and more to emphasize that sanctification was not the work of a moment, but that of a lifetime. Perfection was not to be claimed as some sinless accomplishment, but rather sought as a way of life that would see believers grow in grace until they received the finishing touch of sinlessness at glorification.
Jasmine Fraser...
I agree with Brother Fraser that the doctrine of salvation may be interpreted wrongly and become harmful rather than valuable on the way towards salvation.This comes as a result of compartmentalizing it at bar alongside other doctrinal believe systems.finally this ends up giving a lee way of judging others based on religious standards. To avoid unnecessary wrangles, we ought to hold this doctrine highly for it is transcendent above any human organization and can only be achieved through faith as Fraser indicates.
Richard White...
I appreciate Brother Richards sincere analysis of how we get saved.Thanks for touching this cord for I also did struggle with the idea of perfection having grown within the church.Truly, as you indicated, we are saved by grace alone without input.It is God's act and our part is literally acceptance of the offer which comes along with the ability to accept and do the will of God as Paul indicates in Titus 2:12..."this grace becomes our school master ,teaching us to say no to ungodliness..."
The issue of perfectionism has plagued Adventism by making a clear divide within the church between those who believe humans can attain perfection before glorification by living at our very best behavior, and those on the other side who believe that it can only happen with Christ’s help. However, this issue should not be an issue at all, because as Dr. Hanna pointed out, it is perfection, and not perfectionism that we should be concerned about.
Perfectionism carries with it a notion that we can do something of ourselves in order to achieve perfection, while it is clearly not true. Some may argue on why Jesus came to live in order to show us an example of how we should live. Yes, Jesus indeed came to show us how to live; not to show us we can achieve salvation on our own, but to show us how we can fully depend on God.
Correctly understanding this can help us to correctly understanding the human nature. The subject that is as hotly debated as the issue perfectionism is the issue of Christ taking on human nature before or after Adam. Whidden quotes Ellen White’s statement in his book, Ellen White on Salvation, that Although Adam’s sin caused his descendants to be “born with inherent propensities of disobedience”, it was not total depravity. The amazing thing is that sinners still do have the freedom and the ability to respond to God’s grace. What we also inherited from Adam is guilt and the death sentence. It means that because of sin and guilt that we inherited from Adam, there is no way that we can ever be of any value to God. We are so defiled, corrupt, and stained with corruption that there is nothing we can do can make us anymore acceptable. It is with this realization of total hopelessness that we can begin our journey with God. It is only when we realize that there is nothing that we can do, it is only when we realize that there is no merit in our own works, that Jesus is able to step in to purify us with His saving blood.
I believe that is why it was so much easier for tax collectors and prostitutes to accept Jesus than for the Pharisees, and other religious leaders of that time. The interesting fact is we often do not feel the need of God until we realize our helplessness. I could not agree more with Whidden that “redemption is Christ-centered in all its aspects of calling, conviction, forgiveness, empowerment for obedience (and service) and glorification).
In Biblical Research Institute library, I found an article on perfectionism where the author stated that “the perfect righteousness of Christ is the only answer to the sin problem in any man’s life, the only possibility of living like Christ here and now.” I believe it is time that we throw away our masks, and admit our current condition. Only then would we receive the saving grace of Christ.
The posting above is Blog #2
Perfection, how can one reach perfection? Perfection is not salvation, but it’s a bridge that motivates us to keep pressing on. The bible informs us that perfection is a goal that we all should look forward to. Why do many people believe that they have already reached perfection? Paul declares we need a balance on things, although, Matt. 5:48 says, “We should be perfect just as our father in heaven is perfect”. We can reach that perfection only if we stay connected on the vine. Nevertheless, once we disconnect ourselves from the vine, you cannot reach perfection. Jesus, the only perfect one, took the death that we deserved, so we may live in perfect peace through Him.
Perfection is a process of listening, learning, and growing with the help of Jesus. Philippians 3:12-16 advise us that in order to be perfect we must keep on pressing toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called us heavenward in Christ Jesus. People who are perfect want to grow more in perfection, there is no stopping ground because the minute you stop; You stop growing in Christ and you allow self pride to enter which forces you to disregard the grace, and mercies of God.
Jesus is the only one that can complete the process perfection in us. EGW in the Great Controversy states while our great High Priest is making the atonement for us we should seek to become perfect in Christ and those who are unwilling to deny self, to agonize before God, to pray long and earnestly for His blessing, will not obtain it (GC 621, 623). Therefore there is no other way to obtain salvation but though Him.
Largely, the early writings warn us that the process will not be easy but if we remain faithful and know that we are covered under his robe of righteousness, we can and will reach perfection and even then we will continue to grow in perfection through His grace and His love when we get to heaven. It’s all about grace.
I once again expose my lack of knowledge, or know how. I confess that prior to this class I had never heard of the thought described as “Universal Salvation”. As I ponder such I began to suppose what it might be. Could this be another name for “once saved always saved?” Or is this implying that every creature that lives, including animals, are available to receive salvation or are automatically saved? So, I began to seek more information. I soon learned that there are about 7 hypotheses of Universalism. And that Origen was most likely the first person to promote such thought. According to Origen he surmised, “that the punishment of the wicked of which the Bible speaks will not be some form of eternal external suffering inflicted upon them b God, but a temporary internal anguish occasioned by their sense of separation from him.” He further believed that the main goal was purification. And such “end can be realized without eternal punishment and at the right moment the “punishment of the wicked will” cease. At that time “all things will be restored to their original condition”. This is what is known as “Origen’s doctrine of apokatastasis”. One of the several hypotheses of Universal Salvation declares that all humans are saved, but that those who are actually saved are those who do not reject the free gift of salvation. But this smells a lot like “once saved always saved” theology. Another thought is that Universal Salvation is the idea that what took place on the cross fulfilled an objective and lawful justification that is both unconditional and universal applicable to every human. Larry Kane’s article brought more clarity to this subject matter for me. In light of his description I now have a clear picture of what this doctrine is really implying. I embrace, then, the idea that what Jesus did on the cross has implications that reach back towards the beginning of time and forward to the ends of time. If we were to look at the symbolic implications of the cross we would recognize that the cross has many dimensions. There are the vertical and horizontal dimensions. Up, down, left and right. The works of the cross reach back in time to the very first sin committed, even in the heavenly realm. It also reaches to the ends of time, to those sins that are not yet committed. Furthermore, it reaches down to the pit of Hades, and is powerful enough to take all who accept its merits into the pearly precious gates of heaven. Yes this kind of Universal Salvation I can embrace and understand. It basically says that Jesus died for all sinners, of the universal, once and for all. He does not have to die over and over again. The works of the cross cover a multitude of sins, even those that will be committed by those people who are not yet born. The Seventh-day church calls this Universal “Legal” Justification. What Jesus did on the cross legally covers all my sins, and therefore makes me as if I had not sinned, justifying me, and all of humanity. A corporate justification, as some may label it. Yes, there are aspects of obedience, trust and faith, but my works does not bind Jesus’ act on the cross, they are His meritorious works. And it is through His doing that all of humanity can be saved. We are unable to save ourselves. Universal justification is truly, then, “good news”. Every being has access to salvation. We should all be rejoicing, for that means that all of my siblings, friends, and all those individuals that I do not know have an opportunity to enter the great Kingdom of Heaven. Thank you Jesus! For further study of this matter one can look at Romans chapter 3, 5 and 8. The Apostle Paul drives the point home throughout his writings in Romans 3:2-31 “…there is none righteous, not one. For all have sinned”. Thus we all need to be justified, and that comes through and by faith in Jesus Christ alone. We are therefore “Universally Saved”, thanks to Jesus of Nazareth!
Assignment # 2
Considering that each person will be judged by the knowledge and application of truth which he or she possesses, how much does that play a role in the promulgation of the Gospel as the Seventh-day Adventist (SDA) church understands it. Is the term “gospel” being used in a broader context, including the teachings of the SDA church, or is it confined to the teachings of the SDA church? If God has a plan of the salvation for everyone, then what does it matter what religion a person espouses? How do we interpret that the Gospel message going into the entire world? Should we accept by faith what has been revealed even amidst the missing pieces?
We are saved by faith which works. God is able to communicate beyond the circle of Adventism. If such is the case, one could contend that mission should not be determined by the dogmas of the SDA church. Are some teachings to be excluded from our mission focus as it relates to spreading the Gospel? Should the SDA church remain a strict adherent to its teachings while carrying the mission of the church which is to preach the gospel message throughout the world?
I believe it is possible for the SDA church to remain faithful to its mission emphasis. If greater light has been shed on this body of believers, then I believe it is necessary for the church to penetrate political boundaries, all for the purpose of teaching the good news of Jesus. There are other faithful bodies of believes whose mission and understanding of the gospel message plays significant role in the world, and one should be careful not to predetermine the veracity of their missional emphasis.
Another important aspect which ties in to the manner by which the good news of Christ is preached is that of culture. How much does culture determines the manner by which this gospel as understood by the SDA church influences its message and mission? I believe that it is necessary to for the SDA church to remain focused on its mission emphasis, and to always be biblically faithful while being culturally relevant.
Assignment # 4
Romans 8:28-30 And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them. 29 For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And having chosen them, he called them to come to him. And having called them, he gave them right standing with himself. And having given them right standing, he gave them his glory.
Foreknowledge – Predestination – Call – Justification – Sanctification – Glorification
“Wonderful possibilities are provided for everyone who has faith in Christ. No walls are built to keep any living soul from salvation. The predestination, or election, of which God speaks, includes all who will accept Christ as a personal Savior, who will return to their loyalty, to perfect obedience to all God's commandments. This is the effectual salvation of a peculiar people, chosen by God from among men. All who are willing to be saved by Christ are the elect of God. It is the obedient who are predestinated from the foundation of the world. "To as many as received him, to them he gave power to become the sons of God, even to as many as believed on him." {GH, June 11, 1902 par. 3}
Since God is Omniscience, omnipotent and omnipresent does that mean predestination remove the freedom of choice? As I read for the class assignment I made fantastic discovering about freedom of choice. WHY are we not successful in living up to God's standard? WHY do we slip and fall occasionally? Here is how you can overcome? “Each human being is given the freedom of choice. It is his or her to decide whether he/she will stand under the black banner of rebellion, or under the blood-stained banner of Prince Emmanuel. With deep solicitude heaven watches the conflict between good and evil. None but the obedient can enter the gates of the city of God. Upon those who choose to continue in transgression, the death sentence must at last be pronounced. The earth will be purified from their misdoings, their defiance of God. {RH, March 15, 1906 par. 14}”
These things are serious. In other to be an overcomer in this world we must believe that Jesus is the Redeemer of the world. Also we must believe that we cannot overcome the world in our own power. "To him that OVERCOMES," says Jesus, "will I grant to sit with me in my throne." "He that OVERCOMES, and keeps my works unto the end, TO HIM will I give power over the nations; and he shall rule them with a rod of iron." (Revelation 2:26-27; 3:21.) When Christ return He will glorify those who overcome the world by granting them a sit in heaven.
In response to Josiah,
I appreciated the sensitivity that you had in approaching this issue. I agree with you that we need to have faith which works, and I also agree that our church needs to be culturally relevant while holding on to our emphasis on mission.
Response to Stephen Lee's post:
I definitely appreciate your discussion on perfectionism. The moment we think we have attained it, is the moment we stop needing Jesus. God forbid we reach the point of being so comfortable with ourselves that we forget all about the grace of God found in Jesus Christ.
In response to Joel,
I appreciate the fact that you have distinguished perfection from salvation. I also appreciated the quote that you listed here from Ellen White that we should earnestly seek God's blessing. Yes we do know that God's robe of righteousness covers us, but we need to continue to seek God, so that we can continue to grow in Him.
Response to Richard White's third post:
Thanks so much for your reflections on being perfect in Christ! Being perfect, or mature, in Jesus means we trust that Jesus will make up for where we are lacking...and we are definitely lacking. Because our righteousness (even our very best righteousness) is like filthy rags, we have no alternative except trusting that we are made perfect IN CHRIST!
Vladimir Isaac
In response to Wilking Jean posting
I like the way you make your point concerning the issue of predestination or election. You have clearly and shortly presented, though I am paraphrasing, that all human beings have the choice to either choose their predestination lost by rejecting Christ's salvation, or to choose their predestination eternal life by accepting the blood of Christ poured out on the cross.
Response to Jonathan Martin posting on 6/10/2010
I like the way you present the subject about Grace vs law. Like you mention the key is to find a balance between the two. But my question to is that: does Grace cancel out the work of the law?
responding to Richard white assignment # 3
I completely agree with the idea that the key to understanding the passages of Romans 10-13 that deal with the perfection. I like the way you explain perfection of human being. we know that throughout the eternity we will continue to grow, there is not be a point where we can declare that we have reach the perfection level that we suppose to reach.
In response to Josiah second post
I like the way you approach the case of the SDA church that needs to remain firm in their mission while they need to remain strongly faithful in their mission.
Response to Nyarige Samuel Juma
Reflection # 1
I really appreciate the way you explain the plain of salvation. your conclusion is really good and you brought it home.
Respond to Jasmine Fraser
100% Salvation by Faith
Fraser I could agree more with you the way you explain doctrine in your posting. you have done a great job. I really believe we should be more inclusive instead of being exclusive in our doctrine. Unity or reconciliation with the heavenly being is the main focus of Christ Jesus.
Reflection #3
Faith Illuminates the Connection between Justification and Sanctification
The noun faith is often verbalized as a mere cliché expression in an effort to convince an audience of a subject sometimes unknown to the one conveying the message. It is unknown in the sense that faith is more that a verbal expression one uses to persuade others of certain beliefs or convictions. Instead faith is more fittingly expressed as a practical demonstration of one’s convictions and beliefs. From this standpoint it may be safe to say that in order for one to have a clearer understanding of the relationship between justification and sanctification it is fitting to analyze the two through the lens of faith.
In Hebrew 11:6 Paul outlines that “without faith it is impossible t please Him (God), for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him”. The subject of faith in its simplest form denotes belief and trust. Pastor Jan Paulsen in the article “Salvation by Faith” presents a practical illustration in an effort to help in the understanding of faith. This illustration proposes two dimensions of faith as objective, and subjective. Paulsen describes the objectivity of faith as “information and data that lie outside a person and a person’s experience”. Essentially, the experience of Christ incarnation, His death and resurrection are realities with which one cannot empathize with in a practical sense. Neither can one fully comprehend the process, yet one believes, and embraces these occurrences.
Moving to the subjective application of faith, Paulsen proposes that the “objective aspect of faith becomes subjective when an individual, looking at the incarnation, the death, and resurrection of Christ and is inspired to trust Him”. What is the implication of this trust in the process of salvation? Without digging into the depths of the atonement one can understand this implication by reviewing Adam’s strategy in providing for his sin problem. When Adam and Eve realized their nakedness, they felt the need to take care of their situation, and sewed fig leaves for covering, a gesture that is still practiced in contemporary Christendom. The reality remains that though Adam and Eve did their best their ‘best’ was not good enough. The one adequate covering could only be provided through the ‘spilt blood’. Adam was justified only as he let go of his fig leaves and allowed his nakedness to be covered with the skin of the slain animal. By faith he embraced the promise of Gen. 3:15.
But what if Adam had refused the covering, insisting that he was the one who messed up and so he must do something to make up for his wrong, and appease God? Or, what if he accepted the covering then, believing that it was adequate, and that was all he needed? Believing he did not need to follow God’s instruction to offer burnt sacrifice outside the Garden of Eden? That he didn’t even need to instruct his off-springs of this necessity? As one imagine this scenario, it may be a bit easier to imagine what the contemporary life looks like when one accepts only the knowledge of Christ sacrifice for sins, and/or refusing to allow His Holy Spirit to lead in a life of continued obedience.
The significance of viewing the act of justification, and the process of sanctification through the lens of faith is that it illumines the understanding and helps one to conclude like Paul “ Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God, through Christ….I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me” (Rom. 5:1; Gal. 2:20).
Response to Josiah Harry Assignment #2
Josiah, I like your thought-provoking questions in relation to those called to proclaim the gospel of Christ. Your reflection reminds me of one of the discussions in class last week, where Dr. Hanna reviewed the subject of ‘the remnant’. I liked the model he created, illustrating the outside-the-box idea of the remnant, encouraging us to think big when we think of the remnant. This idea is supported in John 10:16 “other sheep I have which are not of this fold, them also I must bring….” Yet there is still another passage in which I believe God is challenging us to think outside the box. “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts”. The truth is, God is not limited to our perceptions of the remnant, or the proclamation of the gospel.
Josiah Harry, the questions and comments you posted in your last blog are very thought provoking. We, SDA's, should consider re-evaluating our approach in how we spread the gospel, but be consistent in our core message. Thanks for your comments.
Jonathan Martin in your 2nd blog you made mentioned of your encounter with a non-SDA who held to a sinless lifestyle. You were amazed that this person was not an SDA, because it usually is SDA's who state such. I can attest to the fact that there are thousands of believers that hold to such view point. Ellen White herself had a similar experience, in her earlier years. In the 1800's, in the northern part of American, the "Holiness Movement" began. And there are still many denominations that hold to such belief and lifestyle. Just wanted to share. Good comments. Thanks for sharing your experience. Blessings
Assignment #4
The Nature of Christ and Salvation
It is extremely important for Christians to have a full understanding about salvation. The bible clearly states that in Romans 5:17, “For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ”. To better understand salvation we need to study closely the nature of Christ in a very simple language.
Christ’s nature on earth was both divine and human. In other words, when Jesus left heaven to come on earth his divinity has never ceased. But here is a great paradox that we cannot fully explain, which is a truth. Christ’s divinity did not die on the cross, only his human nature. God always used human beings level of understanding to communicate with them. Jesus took the human beings nature without ceasing being divine at the same time. Christ’s nature was obedient to the requirements of his divinity. I mean he was constantly in prayer, remained faithful to God’s commandments, and also remained in steady communion with the Holy Spirit. The reason that our salvation did jeopardize is because Christ’s human nature was in perfect communion with his divine nature. They dwelt together in perfect harmony. But the night at Gethsemane explained everything about both natures of Christ. For the very first time in his all existence Christ faced a horrible experience. Christ divinity was in certain way was separated of his human nature, and he felt it so hard. This is the reason he made a final call to his Father about the sacrifice he was about to do. The bible says that God has in horror sin; therefore, Christ’s divinity took literally in his shoulders the sins of the world [all human beings who accept Christ] begin to Adam and finish to the last person before his second coming.
Christ human nature was subject to all kind of temptations, but he did resist because of his constant communion with his Father. Satan did not invest all his power knowing that in vain he will attack Christ. He knew well the great possibility that he had to fail Christ human nature. He knew very well that God is a fair player. In other words, God will never cheat; therefore, he invested all his talents and his powers to fail Christ human nature in order to maintain his arguments against the Lord before the whole universe. Satan ultimate goal still now is to prove to the whole universe that God is not right in everything; therefore, if he can make Jesus to fail like Adam he will be able to prove to the whole universe that his accusation against God is right. Then God will accept him back in heaven, and will have also to reconsider his status. Thank God the faithfulness of Christ has defeated the evil attacks of the devil. This is the reason that salvation is only given through the acceptance of the faithfulness and righteousness of Christ that redeemed us from the bondage of the enemy of ages. This is the reason he said in Luke 22:42, “Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done”. Christ’s humanity could not make the salvation possible if his divinity was not in perfect communion with his humanity. Thank God today we can claim salvation for Christ took the penalty of death on the cross for us. Because of his faithfulness we can say that salvation is available to everyone.
Reflection # 2: Is Salvation Irreversible?
In Romans 8:28-30 Paul establishes a model of salvation which begins with God’s foreknowledge then continues with predestination, calling, justification, and finally glorification. This pattern indicates a progression which begins and ends with God. One of the questions that arise is: can God reverse the actions of salvation? I believe this question is asked because of a wrong interpretation of the passage, and also a misunderstanding of the plan of salvation. There is the idea that when a sinner responds to God’s call, his past, present, and future guilt are cleared, thus it does not matter what he or she does the guilt has been removed already once and for all. Furthermore, some believe that daily sins are only confessed to maintain communion with Christ, not union. This union happened when they were either baptized or gave their heart to God. In other words they say that “sonship” is not affected by sin, and that like a father, God may chastise them, but never reject them or take away the salvation he already provided. The assumption is also made that if a person continues to live in sin either continually or sporadically, it is a demonstration that he or she was never saved in the first place. The texts used are Hebrews 12:8 “if you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons,” another text used to prove this idea is 1 John 3:9, “No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.” The conclusion drawn is that a believer may backslide but never become apostate.
Based on these texts then the question remains, is salvation irreversible? What sin may cause loss of salvation? Another interesting question is; how does loss of salvation become known to an individual?
I believe these statements and questions are the result of a literalistic interpretation of scripture, and a misunderstanding of the salvation process. First, God does not in any case reverse the process of salvation; He places the choices before the person who then is free to choose which way to go (either salvation or damnation). It is the person who is faced with the alternative to remain in God or not. The opportunity for salvation is available, the invitation is extended, and the provision for salvation has been made, but God will not force anyone. A clear example of this can be seen in the parable of the prodigal son. He decides to leave his home, his family and venture into the world; he lost his place in the family by choice. But here is where grace comes in, because just as the father in the parable was willing to receive his son back, so our heavenly Father is not only willing but able to take us back, even if we have decided to break away the union with him.
After considering the question; is salvation irreversible? I believe that in a way it is not, because God has a plan and a hope for everyone to be saved, He has made provision for all to accept his calling and receive his righteousness. But on the other hand, salvation can be irreversible, because men can reject God’s calling, and also through a sinful lifestyle can forfeit God’s invitation to salvation, thus falling into condemnation.
Even though nothing we can ever do can merit salvation, by our rejection, we can lose it. The provision is there, but if we don’t cooperate then salvation is ineffective.
Response to Edgar Alquinta Reflection # 2
Well..for me, the question you had seems practical and also interesting. While reading through the article I think that maybe the intriguing debate on Romans 7:7-25 which is whether to understand the status of Paul struggling with sin before the salvation or after the salvation could closely be related to your question.
Response to Edgar Alquinta Reflection # 2
And also, I think giving an example of prodigal son was really appropriate. It helped to understand more clearly about the concept that our rejection towards God could be the only way that we lost our ‘sonship’ since on the parable the father was always towards the son waiting and willing to forgive as he comes back and actually the choice was upon his son.(or the parable itself seems like focusing on the decision of the son). He could choose to make it back to his father or just choose to reject his will of going back to his father that actually came to his mind according to the understand of the sincerity and faithfulness of his father. (I would like to say the work of the Holy Spirit.)
Reflection # 2 Alexis Rivera
One of the Ideas we have struggled a lot with is the concept of keeping the law vs. leaning on grace. There has been debate on whether keeping the law is legalism and whether leaning fully on grace is liberalism. There has been debate on where the balance between the two lies and what should be avoided. I think on this topic, there will never be a clear-cut agreement, but I do see a simple way of interpreting it based on Romans 7.
This chapter illustrates the limitations of the law through marriage. Law states that when a woman gets married, she is bound by the law of marriage. If she were to marry another man while the first man is still alive, she would be an adulteress and be condemned under the law. However, if that first man dies, she is free to marry again because she has been released from that law. Expanding this from the basic concept would help a person come to this conclusion: anytime there is a physical death, there is an automatic release from physical law. Law is binding until death. Paul’s point is that Jesus died the physical death on the cross so that limitations of the law would no longer be binding and when we accept Jesus, the Gospel, and the gift of salvation, we partake in His physical death, releasing us from the limits of the law. “so my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ…(vs. 4) In the concept of the Christian walk, this is not just a single occurrence. Paul also teaches we must die daily (1 Cor. 15:31).
Now, when you think about it, physical death does not take much human effort. You don’t need to work hard at it because it is a natural process. Likewise, spiritual death through Christ is something that cannot be based on works because it is a natural process, automatically occurring as you accept daily accept Gospel.
Does this release us from keeping the law? Yes, it does… does this mean that we don’t keep the law? Absolutely not! Continued reading shows Paul saying that we “also died to the law through the body of Christ that we might belong to another. To him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.” Just as death to the law is a natural process in giving our lives to Christ, bearing good fruits is also natural. The good fruits are in accordance with the law. Therefore, even though we are not bound by the law, we keep the law as a natural fruitage of our relationship with God.
Response to Dr. Hanna 6/21/10 posting
I congratulate you for the way you explained the power of the blood of Christ. I think it will always be a mystery why God allowed all of this to happen, when He knew before all of the details of history, present and future. My question to Dr Hanna is this, how effective is the literal blood of Christ for the plan of salvation? Can anyone be saved outside the blood of Christ? If NO, what about those who never have a chance to hear or know about the Christ sacrifice?
Response to Vladimir Isaac's Reflection #4
I appreciated the description of how Christ's divinity and humanity were in communion with one another. My question is, when we take on the nature of Christ, does this mean we must take part in his divine nature? or is it in communing (as a human) as he did when he was here on earth? and is this done through accepting the gift of salvation?
Response to Ghenadi Girleanu Reflection #1
you have done well in painting the bigger picture of the "complex simplicity" of Salvation. I agree, the actual process of salvation is a simple one: asking and recieving grace on a daily level. The reason salvation is SO complex is because of the nature of its origin. It was not a simple thing for Christ to give up his divinity, live a sinless life, and recieve on himself the natural consequences of sin. Yet out of this complexity came the opportunity for grace, a freely and abundantly given gift.
Response #3 to Alexis' reflection #2
I give you lots of credit for taking on the Romans 7 text while looking at the law/grace issue. I've been forced to preach on that before and it was one of the most confusing passages I've ever dealt with! Also, I appreciate your reminder of "dying daily"; it really connects well with the concept of justification as a process (and not just a single event).
My one point of confusion is the statement that spiritual death is like physical death - a natural process. I disagree, because physical death is an unavoidable event which all creatures face (without divine intervention), whereas spiritual death is avoidable. No matter how strong God's calling might be, we still have the right to refuse God's gift of grace. Am I misunderstanding you?
Richard M. White
Assignment #4
June 23, 2010
Faith in the Power of the Cross-Future Past and Past and Future
After reading chapters 12 to 16 in the book of Romans, chapters 14 to17 from the book Ellen White on Salvation by Woodrow W. Whidden II, and the BHI article on “The Dynamics of Salvation” –an open letter to the church from Adventist Review, May 1979. –the subtopic “Grace and Faith”
It is truly amazing how the cross or Jesus Christ reaches back into the past, before its existence and symbolize the saving grace of God in His Son’s death, so that all who that looks in anticipation for it is saved by it. In the same way the cross reaches into the future to save us who exist after the cross. All roads to salvation do lead to Calvary. On Calvary and Calvary only is man saved. Jesus said if “I be lifted up I will draw all man onto Him”. All man past and future, this power of the cross.
There is some intrinsically significant about the cross of Jesus. It was not any man that died on it. It was the lamb that came to atone for our sins. He was truly the son of man. If the person who died on the cross was not Jesus Christ then our sins are not forgiven. So was it the Christ?
Such a question has been asked for centuries now and I will not attempt the answer it from an historical or a philosophical point of view. However, from a theological prospective, I propose that is where faith comes in. This faith can only be achieved by believing. Who do we believe? We should believe in the God and His promises. The scripture has laid demonstrated God’s promises and it fulfillment to man over centuries. Form the blessing of Abraham to the fulfillment of His prophecy to Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, and other prophets. God has been truthful and faithful to man. Therefore, the faith I would like to focus on is not God’s faith but our faith in Him.
Faith is needed on our part to begin to understand not only the cross, but the power in the cross. It power to cover past, present, and future sins, done my men before and after its existence. Christ tells us “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without me you can do nothing. (John 15:5)
I will propose, without faith we can never understand God. Everything about God cannot be solved my mathematical calculation or scientific experiments. God is a mystery to us, because we are his creature and He is the creator. We will never understand His fully. Professor Hanna mentioned in class not only the need for us to have faith, but also the power that God impart through faith to us. God’s people before the cross needed to have faith looking to the unseeing cross in the future to save them. We in the present future must have faith that the cross and what happened on the cross in the past has the power to and will save us. Therefore faith is a primary factor to understand God’s grace, in justifying us and sanctifying us. Without faith we are lost.
How do we obtain this faith? First we should understand that He is the one who give us this faith. He gives us through believing in His existence in our lives and the lives of other. He has shown us through His creation, His predictions coming through, and the working in our lives. He laid down enough evidence not only in the Bible but in our live of His existence. God continues to work this faith in us “both to will and to do his good pleasure: (Phil. 2:13) Because of this, we can believe and then thrust in the faith that He gives to us that He is real. We can now impart this faith to the cross and it power to save because we believe in God.
Thank you Alexis (response to his #2 posting).
I agree that the law is not to done away with or ignored, because we are no longer under the law. The law still stands. We are just not subject to it because we are under grace; however, if we break the law under grace we are in violation with the law and should pay the penalty of breaking the law. So while we live under grace, let us honor and respect the law.
Response to Edgar Alquinta # 2
Is salvation irreversible? I will have to agree with you Edgar, it is not. Because of God love for us, he already decided to save us. Not because we are good or worthy of it, but because he created us out of love, redeemed us out of love, and still loves. Can a mother love be revoked for a child? Some might say yes other might say no. What is predominately acceptable in this statement is that a mother’s love goes far beyond human comprehension for her child. Even if the child is the worse criminal in the world, a mother most times sees him or her differently. If a human can have this love for another, what says God? Even if God could, and I believe he can reverse salvation, he would not because of the love for us, he won’t.
Response to Taylor’s Reflection # 2
Your treatment of this subject matter leads to me to the conclusion that there is something inherent in human beings which drives them to seek answers. Is it possible that in seeking after truth one cannot help but to employ reason and logic as tools which facilitate discovery of such truth? I do agree that certain ideas are beyond one’s comprehension; however, should that limitation deter one who is genuinely seeking after knowledge? I support your argument that one’s knowledge is indicative of the fact that there is still much to ascertain, and also shows the limitation of the said knowledge.
Questions relating to Dr. Hanna’s discussion on cross & blood
Subsequent to seminary training which should have included learning the central logic of concepts such as literalistic and legalistic, what can be done by a pastor to control for misinterpretations among the members of his or her parish as it relates to biblical truths? Is it possible that the said concepts can distract one’s attention from looking at Christ as the interpretative center of the Bible? How much consensus is needed within the context of Adventism in order for the truth of God to triumph?
Response to Josiah Harry – Assignment #2
I liked the questions you raised concerning our role as a denomination among others who also feel called to spread the gospel to the world. Indeed we are to continue with our God given mission because we will be judged according to the light we have received, and I may add, to how effective or faithful was the church to shine this light. We are responsible for spreading this gospel of salvation in a contextualized way which will reach as many as possible without compromising Adventist hermeneutics; this is our challenge as pastors and leaders of this movement. Let us carry this banner of salvation forward to every nation and lift up Christ in everything we do.
Response to Paul Muniz – Blog # 2
I really appreciated Paul’s interest in digging deeper into the “universalism” theory and grasping the implications of it so well in his blog. Indeed the term universalism is a loaded one, and the first thing is to ask is how the author is using the term in how it affects his /her conclusions. Using the term is not “bad” as long as it is defined and limited by biblically. In this sense, I agree with Paul that Salvation is universally available! Yet not everyone will be saved, not because God rejects that person, but the contrary is the case. The cross extends the invitation to all humanity to come and receive the gift of eternal life purchased with the blood of the Savior, He did everything so that all have the same access, now it is up to us to accept or decline such wonderful gift.
Response to Enock O. Bigogo – Assignment #1
Great job in summarizing Rodriguez’s important points as presented on his article. It is true that a better understanding of the fall and Adam’s role in it will certainly help understand what Jesus did for us in order to have victory where Adam failed. Paul states that we all have sinned and therefore have no access to God on our own; this separation is a direct result of Adam’s choice. But Christ stepped in and he defeated sin, vindicated the human race. I believe that you will also benefit by doing a comparison between the “in Adam” and the “in Christ” motifs.
Response to Ghenadie Girleanu – First Reflection
Indeed salvation is a complex concept, so much so, that we will spend the rest of eternity trying to understand all the implications of the plan of salvation. We may indeed find at first many contradictions, and unclear statements, but we must never forget that like Paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:12,” For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I shall know fully just as I also have been fully known.” You raise many important questions which now may seem impossible to answer, but praise God that all those questions will be answered by Christ himself. Let us continue to ask these difficult questions because God does not mind, in fact, he will grant us wisdom to discern in his word the answers that we need for now. Great work!
Response to Richard White's Comment
Thanks for pointing this out! I can see where the dying in Christ being a natural process could be confusing so let me clarify. Yes, spiritual death is an optional thing, but once you choose to follow Christ, what follows is that natural death in him. You don't have to work at it or do anything to recieve that death. However, if a person doesn't choose to follow Christ, he/she never spiritually "dies" to the law.
so, the only ones who really experience that natural spiritual death are the ones who give their lives over to Christ. my perspective was coming from those who are covered by the blood of the lamb.
Response to Vladimir’s Assignment # 4
Your reflection on the nature of Christ and salvation was written with both substantive and style. It is obvious that you put much work into developing your thoughts. In the matter of your introductory sentence, you used strong words such as extremely and full, and while I understand the basis of your claim, I am not sure that I support your argument about Christians having a “full” understanding about salvation, for the reason that it is not possible.
Response 3a
In response to Edgar Alquinta Reflection 2, I agree with you that Salvation has been provisioned for us, and what an amazing news that is! I am glad that you mentioned that we can either accept it or forfeit it. Perhaps the idea will help people to turn away from intentionally sinning.
Response to White’s Assignment # 4
Thank you for developing your work on faith. I appreciate your use of symbolism in attempting to formulate your line of reasoning. As I considered your work, I wondered if the employment of such language reduces the saliency of your points. I am speaking from the perspective of someone who is not familiar with Christian jargons, such as power in the cross. The theme of your work seemed to be centered on the “power of the cross”. Is there such a thing? Could it be that the power to which you allude resides less in the symbol, and more in the person of Christ? Is the essence of salvation based on having faith in the power of an object?
Response 3b
In response to Richard,
I appreciated your honesty and humbleness in approaching the issue of faith.
We are unable to understand it even with mathematical calculation or scientific experiments.
God is mystery to us, and I agree with you that we need to just accept that fact.
Praise God that we do not need to earn salvation, but God gives it to us.
in response to Wilking Jean post # 1
i appreciated you tying all three dimensions of faith hope and love together, showing that they are not to be separated in the context of salvation. my question is, how do the three points apply from a practical manner. you have discussed the why of each, and I am curious to hear your opinions on the "how."
Response #4 to Edgar Alquinta's Reflection #2
Edgar, I appreciate your approach to this topic. The majority of Christians today seem to focus on God's Fathership primarily and all other secondarily. I've never connected this unbalanced view to the concept of "once-saved-always-saved", but it has some merit. I really liked what you said there at the end, when you say that there's nothing we can do to earn our salvation but there's things we can do to lose it. I think of Adam & Eve - they had no control over being placed IN the garden, but they had total control as to being kicked OUT.
In response to Josiah about my assignment #4
I did not mean at all that Christians have yet a full understanding about salvation. I just implicitly said that this is the purpose of God for us to have a strong understanding about his salvation. Although sister White even in heaven we will continue to study more about the salvation, but for now God's desire is we grasp its meaning. I believe that this is what makes some people in the church so inactive in doing the work of God. It is because they don't grasp yet the salvation that God has provided for them.
In response to Richard M. White - Assignment #4
I think the lessons from the previous classes were well summarized in your article. It truly helps me to recall what I have learned so far. I agree on the part you said about the kind of faith we should look for. I also think that the faith we should have is not only the faith considering the present time, the present spiritual status what we can see and can evaluate but the faith considering the future, the things which are invisible for now, such as our sanctified character in Christ and the hope for the spiritual transformation that eventually will be taken place on us by God.
Assignment # 3: Salvation = Grace + nothing
Our salvation depends on God’s grace from beginning to end, there is nothing anyone can do merit God’s grace otherwise it will be a payment and not a gift. This last part is what many have issues dealing with, mainly because we were born “legalistic”, by this I mean we are used to earn everything, everything has a price and we expect God’s economy to be similar to ours, but praise be to God that this is not the case! It is not because of who I am, or what I do, but because of who He is and what He did for me. Grace is given to us because of the nature of God, the giver of grace, not because we are worthy to receive it. Our salvation is available only because God’s character is grace, he has always been a God of grace, and he extends his grace to all humanity. He acted in grace from the beginning, even before sin entered the universe, in other words, grace is not a reaction to the sin problem, instead God was proactive in dealing with sin through grace. So there was grace even before creation, there was grace during the Old Testament times, during the New Testament times, there is grace today, and grace will continue throughout eternity. Moreover, foreknowledge is based on grace, as is predestination, calling, justification, sanctification, and glorification. God works through grace in every stage so assure our salvation because there is nothing we can contribute.
I want to share what I read in a recent article of Elder’s Digest concerning grace, the article mentioned that grace is expressed in many ways, some of which are:
Common grace: the benevolence which is poured out upon all men regardless of their spiritual condition.
Saving grace: provided by the cross of Calvary
Securing grace: the manifestation of God’s benevolence by which Christians are kept secure. Salvation is obtained and maintained by grace alone.
Sanctifying grace: is grace which brings growth, maturity, and progress in the process of becoming Christlike.
Sustaining grace: grace given at special times of need, especially during adversity or suffering (2 Cor. 12:9).
We can safely say that God is unreasonably generous to us because his grace abounds even where sin abounds! Our sinful actions only merit death, and even if we live perfect lives (which is impossible anyways) we would not merit salvation. Salvation is God’s gift which we should humbly receive. No one deserves eternal life, the Bible says there is no just person, we are by nature enemies of God, but grace reaches out, grace seeks, grace does not give up on us, and if we receive His grace and allow the transformation to take place in our lives, then, the result will be eternal life to continue enjoying His grace for eternity. In reality the closer we come to God, the more we realize we depend on His grace, not only for eternity, but to live our daily lives, His mercies are new to us every single morning, and every day we have the opportunity to depend on His grace to carry us through the day. And if we fail, there is God’s grace again to lift us up when we come with a repentant spirit and allow God to work in us. Moment by moment we need to depend in God, the moment we start depending on ourselves, we will miserably fail. The moment we begin to think that we can do anything to merit God’s grace, is the moment we loose it, not because God takes it away from us, but because we become proud and think we can “help” God in the process, yet we forget what the Bible says about this attitude, we read in 1 Peter 5:5, “for God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble.” Let us live humbly before the Lord, rejoicing in his grace, and sharing his love with others.
For the full article see Elder’s Digest, July/September 2010, 10-11.
Response to Cesar Grassiotto – First Article
I really enjoyed your perspective on how Ellen White assisted by the Holy Spirit, developed her particular view of salvation. Indeed, her position was different than those in leadership positions, who had been influenced by mainstream theology or literalistic understanding of scripture. Yet she was not harsh with them but demonstrated that she had received grace by being graceful to others, even those who disagreed with her position. God used her to affirm and guide the Adventist movement and her convictions about justification and sanctification. We can be thankful that God raised such a person to point to a better understanding of this important topic. It is now our turn as pastors to continue her legacy and preach the wonderful message of grace and salvation for this generation.
Response to Piasi Suleiman – Assignment # 1
Your reflections were very interesting and I agree with you completely. As pastors we will encounter members who either have doubts, or an agenda and we are to respond with wisdom and humility. Salvation and is a complex theme, and we will not have all the answers in this side of eternity. On the second issue you mentioned about Ellen White and how we either place her on a pedestal or want to discard everything she wrote, I agree with you that it is refreshing to see that she had her own struggles just like us, and that she depended on the same Holy Spirit we depend on, this gives me hope that I can also make a small difference in my area of ministry if I surrender my will, like she did. Thanks for the great work!
Reflection #3
With the fall of man into sin, there arose a situation that man by himself could not handle. From the beginning of it he began to run away from God – which made it worse. Man’s nature changed and since then his relationship was no longer in terms with his creator. The running away signified broken relationship between man and his maker.
In effort to counter what they had done, Adam and Eve sought the cover of leaves. The leaves, as though signifying human effort to finding solution to the sin problem, could not last and God came to give the only remedy that would solve the sin complication. There was no way of escape except for the coming of the Savior.
In his fallen state, man was in utter desperation that without God taking the initiative of looking for him, he would not find his way back to his creator. God came to Eden to look for man and this move indicates the initiative of God seeking to restore man and save him from sin and its consequence – namely, death.
When our first parents sinned, the human race was condemned to die eternally and this desperate condition appealed to the sympathy of God. He then so loved the world that He gave His begotten son to die for the redemption of the lost world, fallen into hopelessness.
But while we were still sinners, God sent His son to die for the helpless sinner – creating chance for salvation for those who would embrace it. While we sought Him not, God became compassionate to His fallen beings and started the errand of redeeming man, whoever much it would cost Him.
True as it is that Christ paid the price for the redemption of man, He still has the challenge being rejected by the fallen beings. This is because He could not compel man to take the offer of salvation against his will. The death Christ on the cross of Calvary made provision to the salvation of every living soul, however, he needed to accept the gift of life.
Here is the place of faith. Despite the fact that God has extended the offer of salvation to all, the effectiveness of it relies on the human response. If one accepts what grace has purchased for him/her, to them is accounted righteousness, but to them who reject Him who came that they may have life is the condemnation unto death.
As discussed in class, the dying of the Son of God turned round the curse that was upon man due to his sin. Him who in Adam was predestined to die was again re-predestined in Christ to life eternal. This double predestination upon man as Dr. Hanna explains, is the circumstance that created room for the choice of man as to whether he will partake of eternal condemnation or life ever more.
It now relies on what side man takes in the great controversy. There is utterly nothing that man can do to save himself but also true that there is something to be done in response to the free offer of salvation. Accepting it by faith means justification while disbelief and luck of faith leaves a person in the debt that has already been cleared. One has to make a choice.
Response to Alexis Rivera's reflion #2.
I see you emphasizing the natural nature of the transformation when one is born into Christ. I agree with your thought in this line since there is no human effort that contributes anything save the cooperation that God needs in the process, which in itself is nothing more than permitting Him to work in us.
Response to Alexis Rivera's reflion #2.
I see you emphasizing the natural nature of the transformation when one is born into Christ. I agree with your thought in this line since there is no human effort that contributes anything save the cooperation that God needs in the process, which in itself is nothing more than permitting Him to work in us.
Response to Alexis Edgar Alquinta reflion #3.
I commend you for your reflection. In it I find a reminder to ourselves as adventists to beware of the legalistic tendency that may easily creep into our christian living. As you put it, true humility before God and constantly remembering that we only rely on grace and it alone is inevitably important.
Reflection no#3.
The danger of a being striving to be a superman!
When Jesus was in this world to redeem us he came in a very simple manner, just as a human baby actually he was extraordinary but in most cases he behaved very ordinary. He used to give ordinary examples to elaborate very extraordinary doctrine he always used ordinary parables to drive an extraordinary teaching .He chose simplicity though he could opt to be complex, he was God but he lowered himself man ,He knew very well the complex plan of salvation but he always never showed his geniusnes in a single day.
I do understand very well that everybody want to post an extraordinary point of view to draw the attention of his/her colleagues or either to score an A in this course. But unfortunately as I was reading some blogs I got some how confused with very strange theologies I have never heard in the history of my salvation and my Christian walk, since I don’t want to attack anybody those who have read with keen eyes have seen what I’m talking a bout ,After reading the book Romans 10-12 ,Woodrow book on Ellen white on salvation, the materials on the BRI,the presentations in class and the comments Dr. Hanna emphasized this week plus my convictions, here are the points I picked up this week.
~Too much beating of the drum will break it[African saying]-we have discussed of this topic on salvation too much till some people have confused the entire sense of it’s meaning-.Dr Hanna said, every aspect of Jesus’s ministry was very important for our salvation, right from his work before the creation of the earth to his death on the cross and up to what he is now doing in heaven is so important.
~Understanding Ellen white more -to be honest I used to fear Ellen white so much in my earlier Christian life I used to think she was a perfectionists and most of her writings are there rebuke others and intimidating people by her visions and dreams. Actually that is why most Christians in Africa fear reading her books because they think that they will stress them on their prevailing sinful condition, I proved this when I was canvassing because I used to faced a big challenge on selling her books both to Adventists and non Adventist. But in the materials I read, I realized that she was weak and she was also depending on the grace of God and she was also continually pressing toward the mark.
~Salvation is God’s entire project-Romans 11:1 I asked whether God has rejected his people. By no means, verse 2, God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. God loves us that is why be has predestined our salvation
~when we accept Jesus we are made perfect by his grace hence counted righteous by his redeeming grace. For, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ.
~God has committed them all [the nation of Israel] {all people} to disobedience, that he might have mercy on all {nation of Israel}[all people] Romans 11:30-32,this was showed me the wisdom of God that surpassed all human understanding.
~Lastly but not least. If it means that by one man sin came to the world hence I sin because of another mans fault then I will not save myself except by except another man who is Jesus.
Reflection # 3.
Being in the class for three weeks we heard the word perfection quite a few times. We also hear many explanations on how perfection works in our lives by Dr. Hanna, which I must admit have answered quite a few of my questions. There are a lot of people in our churches that really misunderstand this topic. Many of them leave the church because of that. While I was listening to the lectures and explanations by Dr. Hanna I was thinking what we could do for these people that fall into the trap of perfectionism. How can we minister to these people?
Back in the country where I come from, when I was in my teen years, my father being the pastor of the church faced some tough challenges posted by a group of people that fell into this trap. They believed that they could become perfect here on earth and that the Adventist church is the Babylon and they also believed that they had to get as many people as possible out of Babylon, in other words out of Adventist church. Thaw was their mission. In a few months they got quite a few members to follow them. You can imagine that from that time on my father spent countless hours trying to deal with this problem. This problem became so big in my country that at one point the Conference representatives had to step in and discipline the people that were following this teaching. I know that this sounds a little bit harsh, but given the magnitude of the problem, they had to do that. This teaching was spreading through all the churches in Moldova and was getting a lot of interest.
I was a young person at that time but I’ve participated in a few of those heated discussions on the topic of perfection and perfectionism. The interesting fact about this is that all of the arguments in favor of this theory are taken from Ellen White. I’ve read and reread all those quotes where she talks about perfection and I have to admit that sometimes I saw that those people had a point, but because I had my presuppositions that did not agree with this idea, I quickly brushed those thoughts away. In the class lectures and in the reading of the BRI articles and Whidden’s book I had some of the questions answered.
Honestly, it s very hard to understand some of the quotes of Ellen White on this topic. I think that Whidden did a great job attempting to deal with these issues, but I think that all of the questions on this topic will entirely be answered only in heaven. I don’t think that we can comprehend all the aspects of perfection here on earth. I know that perfection on this side of glorification is impossible. It is clear from the Bible that he biblical use of the word “perfect” does not have in mind ultimate sinless perfection but spiritual maturity. If we could obtain perfection we would not need Jesus and that is the simplest and greatest proof for me that this idea is incorrect. I really agree with Dr. Hanna when he stresses the point that we need to distinguish between perfection and perfectionism. Another point that he stresses is that we need to talk about perfection and not to be afraid of it. Honestly, I always try to avoid it because it always comes to an argument when people are very passionate about this topic. But now I understand that we need to talk about it. We need to educate our members and teach them the correct understanding of perfection.
I want to once again ask the question that I’ve asked in the beginning. If you have any thoughts please let me know. What can we do for these people that fall in the trap of perfectionism? Is there anything that we can do for them?
The way we phrase our statements in regards to theology holds a great importance. Over the past week, it appears as though some of my classmates have had a difficult time with phrasing the incarnation of Christ in an appropriate manner. Because we are limited to words as human beings, we have to realize that we cannot grasp the entire, mysterious subject in a singular phrase.
Sometimes, we get caught up with semantics and simple ways of stating things. It would be easy for us to describe Christ as “completely man” or “completely God.” In actuality, He was both.
God was manifested in the flesh. Divinity flashed through humanity. On those occasions, God showed who He was. With one hand He lays hold on humanity and with one hand He lays hold on divinity.
Another question that deserves to be addressed is our Adventist position on perfectionism. The Bible and Ellen White both teach perfection. There are different phases of perfection. First, justification is perfection according to Doctor Hanna. Secondly, sanctification is another step in perfection. Translation is the final step in perfection. This is challenging to wrap your mind around, but I would like to give it a shot!
When Christ reaches us, He has the divine responsibility and initiative to change our life’s path. I am grateful that I am not the same person that I was years ago, and I believe that I owe it to Jesus’ work in my life. This is a continual growth that I believe will never be complete. As I compare my actions continually with Christ’s, I will grow and become more like Him.
Sanctification is the beautiful state of Christ’s covering that makes us perfect in the eyes of God. If it were not for sanctification, our works would appear to be lacking, and we would be deserving of the second death. But praise the Lord that “He who began a good work in ME will be faithful to complete it!”
While I claim these levels of perfection, I am far from perfect.
Jared Miller Doctrine of Salvation
Reflection #3 6/25/10
Reflections on What I have Read
I really appreciated Dr. Whidden’s chapter on the significance and meaning of Minneapolis and 1888. It seems that there is a lot of debate and various opinions about what 1888 was all about. I like how he emphasized that for Ellen White, 1888 was about justification by faith. People had “‘lost sight of Jesus. They needed to have their eyes directed to His divine person, His merits, and changeless love for the human family’” (89).
I have not personally studied 1888 out thoroughly, so this chapter was helpful in seeing what they issues were, and what, for Ellen White, was the main issue. I think Whidden’s point that Ellen White supported some of Jones and Waggoner’s positions, but certainly not all of them, is vital—as they preached some heresy (Arianism, spiritual affinities, etc.). It seems that the “urgent need of Seventh-day Adventists in 1888 (and its immediate aftermath) was to understand that they were accepted by faith in the accounted merits of Christ—and not because of their good works” (91). Could this be the urgent need of SDAs in 2010 as well? To a large extent I think the answer is “Yes!” Additionally I would suggest our urgent need is the outpouring of the Holy Spirit that will inspire in us a mission to more fully share the three angels’ messages (which Ellen White said was the “third angel’s message in verity” (97).
Another point I found very interesting is the fact that 45% of Ellen White’s writings on justification by faith were written from 1888 to 1892. Whidden puts it in perspective when he points out that that is like a pastor pastoring a church for 4 years and preaching nearly 50% of sermons on the same topic. It would take some serious research to pinpoint what percentage of her writingss were on what topic—but Whidden must have done some thorough research to be able to write that.
The BRI article by Angel Rodriguez concerning 1 Timothy 4:10 was also good. I like how he looked at several interpretations of the text, and then showed the interpretation that has a biblical hermeneutic—namely that Paul isn’t suggesting that all humans will be saved, as that would contradict other Scriptures. His conclusion that what Jesus did on the cross made salvation available for everyone, but only those who believe in Him will be saved.
Romans 12:3 fits in nicely with what Ellen White emphasized, saying that God has given everyone a portion of faith. God is responsible for our faith as well—so we’re saved by what God has done for us through and through—He gives us faith to believe in His saving grace—praise the Lord!
How What I have Read Relates to the Class Discussions
The section from Romans relates to what Dr. Hanna was saying about how salvation is all of God’s work, and that our works contribute nothing to our salvation. I also think the balanced view from Whidden matches the balance view of Dr. Hanna, specifically where he suggests that we won’t reach sinless perfectionism until Jesus’ comes. I like the text he quoted from Proverbs 24:16—that a righteous person may fall seven times, but will get back up again. So, righteous people may fall—like Peter did when he took his eyes off of Jesus, but just like Peter, when we call out to Jesus to save us—He’ll pick us up and save us. I appreciated how the opposite extreme, sinful presumption was addressed too—and the fact that we need to avoid both extremes.
Reflection 4a
In response to piasi suleiman's Reflection no#3
I agree with you that perhaps we have focused so much on the doctrine of salvation that we might have confused ourselves. I appreciate your comment on Ellen White, and her personal side. Ellen White needed the grace of Christ as much as we need the grace of Christ. Ellen White is not a person that we should fear, but to gain encourgament from.
Response 4b
In response to Vladimir Isaac's
Assignment #4
I appreciated your thoughts on perfect union of Jesus' human and divine nature. I truly do believe that it was Jesus' complete dependence on God that carried Him through. It is also true with us; only when we completely depend on God by faith that we may become like Christ. Jesus did not come to show us how we may earn salvation, but how we may receive salvation by total dependence on God
Response #2: Facets of Salvation
The fifth chapter in Whidden’s book describes Ellen Whites view on Salvation in a larger view than I have previously understood it to mean. The title threw me for a loop with the title, “Salvation, the Great Controversy Theme, Closing Events, and the Law.” At first I thought Whidden was going to describe each element and put in together in a related but distant theme. Yet when I read this chapter, I was reminded of Professor Hanna’s explanation that Salvation is ‘multi-faceted because there are so many ways of explaining it.’
For a long time now, I was under the impression that Salvation could be described in only two ways: justification and sanctification. Not to get involved into the intricate details of these two terms which can lead to another conversation, but what I am saying is that Salvation is more than a two step process or explained definition; it’s life itself! I thought I had rid many elements of legalism in my mind but it continually hiccups when people ask me to define Salvation in these terms; this has lead me to give this black and white answer.
On the opening sentence of chapter 5 it states, “The doctrine of salvation does not develop in splendid isolation from other doctrinal factors….these are (1) the great controversy theme (2) closing events, (3) law, (4) sin, especially the way it affects human nature, (5) understandings of the atonement, and (6) critical issues related to the nature of Christ (especially His humanity)” (p.35).
This Adventist position is not legalistic in the slightest but gives a broader understanding of how salvation plays a role in our lives; how it is bigger than what we do and can even fathom! I deeply appreciate this paradigm shift because it allows me to surrender my ‘perfectionist’ mentality; that is, do everything and give credit to God because that’s what Christians do. Instead, I am indebted and grateful because God has given me the opportunity for partaking in the salvific process for humanity (including myself) only because of God’s omnipotent grace. I feel I can stand taller with the Adventist message in its wholistic approach because of the multi-faceted explanation of the role in Salvation History which I am a part of.
(3rd comment):Salvation facets in justification/sanctification intertwined with justice and mercy
In growing in the understanding of how Salvation is explained, I have come to see it in more than one facet; not only justification and sanctification but also justice and mercy intertwined.
Sin is an inherent ‘gene’, as one might call it, that we all inherit because we are human. Since the fall of Adam was neither our direct choice nor privilege to discard, we are given the opportunity through the life, death, and resurrection of Christ to have eternal life. If we were to look at Salvation in these terms, it would be described as God’s grace in justice and mercy, not the typical one-liner ‘unmerited favor.’
To look at Salvation in these terms is a type of justification and sanctification. It is justice because we never originated sin as Adam did, so we are given the opportunity to experience a portion of the eternal life through justification perfection on earth. Yet, when we succumb to sin (and we do), we are given mercy to follow Jesus and resubmit ourselves to His divine plan and put on the ‘robe of righteousness’ (Hanna); this is the process of sanctification.
In my understanding, we don’t aim to fall, but even if we do; it is still a process to reach that ‘continual growth in perfection.’ So sanctification can even be looked at as stages in itself because on the one hand we continually grow; on the other hand, we fall but get right back up. In other words, sanctification is the process of ‘gradual growth in perfection.’ This is not limited to a slow and steady incline but may also includes one of ‘ups-and-downs’ along the way.
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