Revelation Inspiration and Hermeneutics: Summer 2010
Please place headings on your assignments (eg., Assignment 1). Headings are not required for your other comments and discussions.
120 comments:
Owen Ellis
said...
Reflection 1 I’ll begin my first reflection with thoughts arising from our discussion in class on Wednesday July 7. I was personally challenged during our discussions on allowing the Holy Spirit to participate in our corporate worship. In reflection I think I have supported this in principle but have been uncertain of what it looks like in practice, and more particularly have been afraid of relinquishing too much control, partly in fear of the unknown. God is a God of order and we have a certain responsibility to maintain an appropriate degree of order in worship. But in what I’ve just written a question is provoked: If God is a God of order why do I fear that giving freedom to the Spirit might bring disorder?(assuming we have the right Spirit). Can’t I trust this God of order to maintain order? And if I can, how does He do this? I really appreciated the insight that order will be maintained when the various gifts of the Spirit are being exercised appropriately. These gifts include teaching and leading and therefore the Spirit works through the teacher and leader to maintain both openness and order. For worship to glorify God the corporate worship experience should be thoughtfully planned and in this the Spirit can work powerfully through the worship leader/planner if allowed to. In this is a personal reminder to ensure that we are working in the Spirit’s power and not our own. As I listened to this discussion, reflecting on the reason for our(my) reluctance to relinquish control of corporate worship to the Spirit, a deeper question struck at my heart: Why am I so reluctant to relinquish full control of my life to the Spirit? I ask this of myself as one who loves God and professes to have given my life to Him and to His control. Yet I find myself forced to confess that I like to be in control and I fear the unknown. Further, I’m not even sure what such a life would look like, or feel like. Possibly part of the answer to all this is found in the discussion above. If I believe in a God of order surely I can trust Him to maintain appropriate order in my life, and to do this through various God-appointed means. If I believe this I should have less reason to fear the “unknown”. I’m sure that the applications of our discussion can go further here but these initial thoughts are both challenging and encouraging. This personal challenge came to me as I listened to our discussion of a more corporate challenge. And in this I think there also lies part of the answer to the original question. Surely it follows that the worship of those whose lives are fully led by the Spirit will be Spirit-led, Spirit-filled, and God-glorifying. Perhaps part of our reluctance to relinquish control of corporate worship to the Spirit lies in our not having given Him full control of our individual lives. If my life is fully under the control of the Spirit then surely everything I do will be surrendered to Him, and this will include my involvement in corporate worship. (Or perhaps I am reading into the situation something that is only personally applicable to me and not generally significant to others?). I began my reading for this class by reading right through The Cosmic Christ of Scripture and really enjoyed it. I am currently struggling with gaining a clear answer to thoughts along the following lines: I have been inclined to think of the Revelation of Christ as a subset of what is revealed in Scripture, and possibly (subconsciously) as subordinate to Scripture though I know He is not. However while Christ is the Supreme Revelation, we are dependent on the record of Scripture, in particular the gospels, to reveal Him. While all scripture testifies of Him it is the gospels that record the revealing of the personal divine-human Jesus Christ. So we rely on the gospels to “experience” the Supreme Revelation that was experienced first-hand by those who encountered Him when He was on earth. Does this in any way elevate the gospels as “supreme” in Scripture? I don’t think the answer is “yes”, and perhaps I’m asking the wrong question.
It is interesting for me to join the journey to overlook how God reveals himself. Revelation At first, I read chapter one from the book “understanding Scripture an Adventist approach”. This chapter deals with the historical back ground of the Adventist Biblical interpretation. I want to point out my insight from the chapter. I was amazed to see that the history of the biblical interpretation of the Adventist church cannot be separated from the history of Christianity. This chapter shows that we have to trace all the way back to the first century and each time, people of God understood what they had to understand by interpretation. As we know there were times that all the biblical interpretation scholars were influenced by Hellenistic culture, or during the medieval churches ruined the sound method of the biblical interpretation. However, God restored the method of interpretation of inspired writing so that we may see it right in 21st century. The biblical interpretation of the Adventist church has been developed very unique way the furthermore, it is still active and progressive. When I read the history of our church, I assumed that it could be dangerous to go on journey to seek the right message and interpretation from the bible without theological education system in those old days but I believed that the Holy spirit work in us, and through us to lead to the future. In class, we asked question “how can we determine the work of the Holy spirit?” it is still difficult question but when I read the biblical interpretation history of our church, I could find my answer there. It was interesting that Dr. Hanna mentioned about space for the Holy Spirit, and I would view that our church history shows how it worked. I personally believe that historical – grammatical method is very efficient way to approach to interpret the Scripture. But as we saw the history, if we just focus on this method as research perspective, we may lose the original meaning meant by the original author. I think Adventist history is the history of biblical interpretation. Hence, our identity relay on our hermeneutics on inspired revelation of God. The Adventist interpreter shows us that prophetic interpretation which was fulfilled in actual secular history that proves God is in control of the world. Our method uses Typology and Analogy of scripture to link between the Old Testament and the New Testament by Christ centered perspective. As we have this point of view, I think William Miller’s position in the Seventh-day Adventist can be different. First, William Miller and the Seventh-day Adventist church are on the same page in terms of philosophy to approach to the scripture and the 2nd coming. In contrast, William Miller can be positioned on the different side because Sabbatarian’s interpretation has been more intensive, progressive. As a result of that, the biblical interpretation of the Adventist church employs variety is concepts which are biblical. I want to quote the sentence from this chapter, “Adventists are convinced God has raised up the Seventh0day Adventist Church, within the challenges of the “last days”, to restore and uplift the authority of His Word and to promote a system of biblical interpretation derived from the scripture itself”. This statement makes me think that we, the Adventist can be the revelation of God. Secondly, I read “Cosmic Christ Connections” page 15-45, it also has interesting view about the revelation of God. I usually know and mentioned about the revelation of the nature, but never had firm view on it, but I really liked the explanation about “God breathed” and it also interesting the concept connection and application of tota, sola, prima to Christ, Creation, scripture. And I totally agree with Dr. Hanna’s view that the scripture has to be the first revelation because for human beings, we need to have something to determine the God’s revelation. So the Scripture has significant function among these revelations. I hope I would be another revelation of God to reveal Jesus Christ.
What presuppositions do we come with when we read scripture, when we open our bibles? Do you and I bring so much to the table when we read the bible that we are unable to receive wholely from the word of God? I think that each one of us does come to everything that we do with presuppositions. As I think of myself as a Seventh Day Adventist I wonder what presuppositions I come with that not only help my ability to understand Gods word, but I also wonder what things I bring to the table that hold me back from understanding what scripture has to tell me. When I talk to other individuals who come from different faith back grounds I am hit by the presuppositions that they have that make them believe and do what they do. I have to look at myself while I say this statement because my presuppositions make me look at what they believe and effect my viewpoint. As the book said ‘’true neutrality, or absolute objectivity, cannot be achieved in the act of interpretation” (pg 28 U.S.- Reid) Following this thought as I read further I can agree with the thought ‘the bible must be given room to teach us its own essential categories’ (same), so that we think with the biblical text rather than just think about the text of the bible (same). I loved how the text book talked about how the scriptures can and will change our ‘preunderstandings’. How when we read scripture without coming with all our baggage we will go away with what the bible is trying (the HS) to teach us. When I was thinking about presuppositions I was thinking more on the basis of my denominational upbringing. But in the chapter it brought out a good point. We are all presupposed based on other factors in life. To name a big one sin- which has many things attached to it such as pride, self-deception, doubt, etc. These and other things make us predisposed to think a certain way. But there are presuppositions and attitudes that would be good to have when coming to the scriptures. The chapter mentioned a few. A huge one for me is being open and honest. How often do we come to something and are totally open to new thoughts and honest about our own feelings and thoughts (some people have an easier time then others). Faith is a big part of it; what we believe to be true is based on a strong faith. Many tools I think can equip us to properly interpret scripture and it is our presuppositions that we need to set aside to be able to come to a right and true understanding of what God is trying to tell us in his word. Thankfully we are not coming to it alone and with no help. We have the great helper to guide and lead us as we humbly come and ask for guidance in our study of his word. In this class and in other classes and activities this last year I am constantly shown that more of my time is to be focused on Christ. Not just the two books that I’m used to focusing on. But the 3rd and most important one. I’ve also been coming to grips with some of my presuppositions. How I have grown up in a legalistic church where I am presupposed to put my view on things… Well through this class and others I hope to change this into a more Christ focused and Christ character reflected ministry.
What presuppositions do we come with when we read scripture, when we open our bibles? Do you and I bring so much to the table when we read the bible that we are unable to receive wholely from the word of God? I think that each one of us does come to everything that we do with presuppositions. As I think of myself as a Seventh Day Adventist I wonder what presuppositions I come with that not only help my ability to understand Gods word, but I also wonder what things I bring to the table that hold me back from understanding what scripture has to tell me. When I talk to other individuals who come from different faith back grounds I am hit by the presuppositions that they have that make them believe and do what they do. I have to look at myself while I say this statement because my presuppositions make me look at what they believe and effect my viewpoint. As the book said ‘’true neutrality, or absolute objectivity, cannot be achieved in the act of interpretation” (pg 28 U.S.- Reid) Following this thought as I read further I can agree with the thought ‘the bible must be given room to teach us its own essential categories’ (same), so that we think with the biblical text rather than just think about the text of the bible (same). I loved how the text book talked about how the scriptures can and will change our ‘preunderstandings’. How when we read scripture without coming with all our baggage we will go away with what the bible is trying (the HS) to teach us. When I was thinking about presuppositions I was thinking more on the basis of my denominational upbringing. But in the chapter it brought out a good point. We are all presupposed based on other factors in life. To name a big one sin- which has many things attached to it such as pride, self-deception, doubt, etc. These and other things make us predisposed to think a certain way. Many tools I think can equip us to properly interpret scripture and it is our presuppositions that we need to set aside to be able to come to a right and true understanding of what God is trying to tell us in his word. Thankfully we are not coming to it alone and with no help. We have the great helper to guide and lead us as we humbly come and ask for guidance in our study of his word. In this class and in other classes and activities this last year I am constantly shown that more of my time is to be focused on Christ. Not just the two books that I’m used to focusing on. But the 3rd and most important one. I’ve also been coming to grips with some of my presuppositions. How I have grown up in a legalistic church where I am presupposed to put my view on things… Well through this class and others I hope to change this into a more Christ focused and Christ character reflected ministry.
What presuppositions do we come with when we read scripture, when we open our bibles? Do you and I bring so much to the table when we read the bible that we are unable to receive wholely from the word of God? I think that each one of us does come to everything that we do with presuppositions. As I think of myself as a Seventh Day Adventist I wonder what presuppositions I come with that not only help my ability to understand Gods word, but I also wonder what things I bring to the table that hold me back from understanding what scripture has to tell me. When I talk to other individuals who come from different faith back grounds I am hit by the presuppositions that they have that make them believe and do what they do. I have to look at myself while I say this statement because my presuppositions make me look at what they believe and effect my viewpoint. As the book said ‘’true neutrality, or absolute objectivity, cannot be achieved in the act of interpretation” (pg 28 U.S.- Reid) Following this thought as I read further I can agree with the thought ‘the bible must be given room to teach us its own essential categories’ (same), so that we think with the biblical text rather than just think about the text of the bible (same). I loved how the text book talked about how the scriptures can and will change our ‘preunderstandings’. How when we read scripture without coming with all our baggage we will go away with what the bible is trying (the HS) to teach us. When I was thinking about presuppositions I was thinking more on the basis of my denominational upbringing. But in the chapter it brought out a good point. We are all presupposed based on other factors in life. To name a big one sin- which has many things attached to it such as pride, self-deception, doubt, etc. These and other things make us predisposed to think a certain way. Thankfully we are not coming to it alone and with no help. We have the great helper to guide and lead us as we humbly come and ask for guidance in our study of his word. In this class and in other classes and activities this last year I am constantly shown that more of my time is to be focused on Christ. Not just the two books that I’m used to focusing on. But the 3rd and most important one. I’ve also been coming to grips with some of my presuppositions. How I have grown up in a legalistic church where I am presupposed to put my view on things… Well through this class and others I hope to change this into a more Christ focused and Christ character reflected ministry.
What presuppositions do we come with when we read scripture, when we open our bibles? Do you and I bring so much to the table when we read the bible that we are unable to receive wholely from the word of God? I think that each one of us does come to everything that we do with presuppositions. As I think of myself as a Seventh Day Adventist I wonder what presuppositions I come with that not only help my ability to understand Gods word, but I also wonder what things I bring to the table that hold me back from understanding what scripture has to tell me. When I talk to other individuals who come from different faith back grounds I am hit by the presuppositions that they have that make them believe and do what they do. I have to look at myself while I say this statement because my presuppositions make me look at what they believe and effect my viewpoint. As the book said ‘’true neutrality, or absolute objectivity, cannot be achieved in the act of interpretation” (pg 28 U.S.- Reid) Following this thought as I read further I can agree with the thought ‘the bible must be given room to teach us its own essential categories’ (same), so that we think with the biblical text rather than just think about the text of the bible (same). I loved how the text book talked about how the scriptures can and will change our ‘preunderstandings’. How when we read scripture without coming with all our baggage we will go away with what the bible is trying (the HS) to teach us. When I was thinking about presuppositions I was thinking more on the basis of my denominational upbringing. But in the chapter it brought out a good point. We are all presupposed based on other factors in life. To name a big one sin- which has many things attached to it such as pride, self-deception, doubt, etc. These and other things make us predisposed to think a certain way. Thankfully we are not coming to it alone and with no help. We have the great helper to guide and lead us as we humbly come and ask for guidance in our study of his word.
Point of order (sorry…I’ve just returned from the GS session ☺)
It would be really helpful to have some ways to distinguish our following comments from the assigned reflections. Should we signify our posts with introductory fraises like “comment on the reflection of X.X.” or may be there is any other way to sort them?
I was intrigued by our discussion in class this week pertaining to our need to make room for the Holy Spirit in our Worship Time. Quite often I find myself watching the reactions and level of participation from others in Church. I have noticed a severe lack of passion in worship services. When we stand to sing together, most of the congregation zones out. Their faces become blank, and there is no zeal or energy in their worship. The responsive readings are a drone and people seem to be less and less willing to participate in any fashion of worship.
Now I want this to be clear, I am not making a judgment call, rather I am trying to make an observation. I have been wondering for some time what could be the cause of our decaying worship services. After reading the first chapter of the textbook I am starting to think that not giving the Holy Spirit room in our worship service might be a possible cause for the descent in worship. Our culture is a very self-sufficient one. We don’t like to depend on or even allow for help for others. There are some within our church that would like to depend on their own understanding to interpret the Bible. However we know that this will not lead to a proper exegesis.
I think it is possible that decline in worship and the straying from sola scriptura are linked. When we do not allow or make room for God in our worship or study we stand on dangerous grounds. When God is removed from worship it becomes mechanical and dead. There is no life in worship when we are simply going through the motions. When we stop inviting the Holy Spirit to guide our study we can again fall on dangerous grounds. Without the Holy Spirits guidance through the scriptures, we allow room for false interpretation. As we have seen with the Temptation of Christ, Satan can use the Bible against us even through it is an instrument of awesome Holy power.
The Adventist church is not in a bubble, though it may seem that way at times. We are influenced by our culture and the other cultures surrounding us. The issues that face us as Americans also affect our church. The same can be said about our brothers and sisters in other countries. The issues that they face as a people affect the church too. All of the issues and cultural biases around the world affect our church, on a local and global level. This is why it is so important to include the Holy Spirit in whatever we are doing, especially worship because without guidance for above we can stray away from where God intended us to be.
After reading the first part of Cosmic Christ of Scripture I have found another variation of the same theme. Scripture is what we have to point us towards Christ, however we make sure that Christ reigns supreme over scripture. This too pushes us to make sure we allow room for the Holy Spirit to guide in our study. If we loose sight of God in our quest for knowledge then we have lost sight of what is truly important.
However it is entirely possible that I could be wrong, or might only be partly wrong. It is merely a theory. I’ll leave it you guys to decide.
I have also struggled with forming a complete view of the revelation of nature. I am really interested by nature and how it fits into the big picture. Now I have a better idea.
I was also really impressed by our discussion in class about making room for the Holy Spirit. I also agree with your statement about God being a God of order, however I think we have to make sure that it is His order we are looking after and not our own. I think this is why it is so important to make room for Him. Worship isn't about us, it is about Him.
You touched on two points that I embrace. The first about not giving the Holy Spirit room in our worship service. While this was being discussed in class the upper room experience came to mind. It appears that they gave room for the Holy Spirit to manifest itself and the results were evident. The second point you touched on was about Adventism not being in a bubble, we are part of, and have been influenced by, many others that have never been Adventist. EGW says something about losing our way when we forget our past. We need to be mindful that we are not in a bubble. Thanks for your thoughts.
In my reflection paper, I choose to talk about the word Hermeneutics. It is the science of right interpreting the importance of inspired words whether non biblical or biblical. A clear open mind and a persuasive heart permit the Holy Spirit to light us with the message the creator has for us as we read the Bible in perceptive. As a result of reading across the entire variety of Ellen White’s writings we can find out her real point of view on the issues. It is indispensable to give ear to historical background since time and place must be carefully noted. With a lacking of background information it is complicated to understand what Ellen White is saying. For example, in 1894, as she was in Australia stressed to find funds for mission at the same time as Bicycle racing became a public sport, the philosophy in her view was idolatry, passion, self-importance, unfortunate stewardship, and radicalism. Ellen G. White used the same warning concerning producing photographs, clothing style, innovative nutritional options, drama, and worldly distraction. Adolescent people saw the irregularity and were disappointed. Nowadays the similar philosophy would expand to the television, movie, video games, and so a lot of other kinds of up to date distraction. Morality look to the heart of God’s counsel and are frequently eternal as they are in Bible. Ellen White regularly uses Scripture homiletically. The God’s servant will apply a passage at moment to build a point to someone that is taken out of its unique background. It is essential to keep away from coming to the last exegetical conclusions based on this practice. The creator, God desires that we reason from common sense. Situation change conditions and transform the relation of things. Healthy life was her main goal at the back of vegetarianism. That is not very essential to get the life of someone of God’s people to provide our normal needs. It would be better not to eat meat instead of using the flesh of pork. Hellen G. White suggests constantly links to the love of God in Salvation. Let’s not enlarge her statements too far as several do about foundation. Hellen G. White argues for an approximate chronology above 6000 yrs. In addition, her linguistic style was that of the 19th C. verbal communication when interaction meant communication or exchanging opinion and feeling in public interaction; nice meant performance fragility or refinement and hard to please or convince. For several years it was not possible to distribute the full background of many of her statements because of discretion issues. Ellen G. White and her assistants brought together material she had written in a gathering formula. That is indispensable to apply resonance hermeneutical values in studying Ellen White writings if not her writings are liable to misinterpretation, misunderstanding, and mistreat.
I confess that as I began to read your blog I became a bit close-minded, but I nevertheless read on. This came about when you said, "When I talk to other individuals who come from different faith back grounds I am hit by the presuppositions that they have that make them believe and do what they do." However, as I read on I let out a sigh of relief by your next comment which said, "I have to look at myself while I say this statement because my presuppositions make me look at what they believe and effect my viewpoint."
As a new member of this denomination there are some that "put down" others that are not Adventists. In doing so it gives the impression that we Adventists are self-absorb, know it all and prideful. While I believe that we have many truths, I also believe that God is the only one with the Ultimate truth. Yes we need to allow scripture to speak, but we also need to make room for the Holy Spirit to speak. I believe that this is where EGW stood and how she was used by God. Thanks for sharing.
Paul Muniz 1st Blog "Right or Wrong Hermeneutics"
said...
The idea of hermeneutics is not something new; it has been around before Jesus came unto Earth. From the moment that the ancient writers began to record the Torah, people began to interpret such. As history has shown us many learned individuals, influenced by the Rabbi’s of the day, held to beliefs that they genuinely felt were Godly truths. This is evident by the question Jesus would pose, “What does scripture say?” Professor Hanna raised this thought during one of the lectures, and I want to add some food for thought to that discussion.
Given the fact that misaligned biblical hermeneutics occurred before, continued to occur during, and continued to occur after Jesus’ time, can one group of people claim to have the absolute correct form of hermeneutics? I raise this question, as I did in class, out of fear. For it seems by the attitudes of several that Adventist are the only ones that can properly perform hermeneutics. My fear is that we Adventists may become so closed minded that we become blind to what is right before us. Is this not what happened to the Jewish leaders of Christ day? As we know the Messiah was there before them and they were unable to see Him. These were well taught individuals, who earnestly believed in their scriptural understanding, but yet rejected the real Truth, the Emmanuel. I fear that if we are not cautious that we too can fall into the same snare. I am not by any means suggesting nor implying that we need to move into another direction, or that we need to embrace another denominations way of hermeneutics, but merely raising the yellow flag of caution, in order that we also do not repeat the mistakes of the past.
Why is this so important to me? I know from attending various theological schools that every one approaches scripture with “presuppositions”. Every denomination approaches the matter of hermeneutics from their theological point of view. And often miss simple truths, and or deep truths. It is become evident to me that all followers of Christ need to put down their presuppositions and let scripture, as well as the Holy Spirit, move in their midst as it comes to biblical interpretation. There is one thing that history has proven that Christians are good at, killing those that do not believe alike. We have allowed the Anti-Christ to enter our hearts and guide our minds and biblical hermeneutics.
I admire the early pioneers of the SDA church who took time to earnestly pray, seek the Holy Spirit, and ensure that they were of the same accord before claiming certain truths. I have learned that I don’t have to convince another person of something in scripture. If I allow the Holy Spirit the room, He will do the convincing. It was such with Mr. & Mrs. White. They went against biblical truths when presented with the matter of eating pork. And in due time the Spirit of God convinced them, and they followed and obeyed. I believe that we need to return to those days when people gathered for hours and days to pray and seek the direction of the Holy Spirit. Nowadays we have a 10-15 minute prayer, call a meeting to order, take a vote and if all agree, we accept what was brought before the body of believers.
EGW said it best when she said, "We have nothing to fear for the future, except as we shall forget the way the Lord has led us, and His teaching in our past history." (Life Sketches, p. 196). I end by saying that hermeneutics does not save, Jesus does. Lets take it back to Him in prayer.
I strongly appreciate your reflection Sehyun for the way you lead your topic.The sentence that I really appreciate is the one you write, God has the control of the world,and I add in whatever the situation God is present.I think you do a good job.
Johnathan Coku You are right when you say there are many churches which are really want to depend on their own understanding.I think it is because they want to spread their own ideas instead of using those in the Bible. I think you get the point.
From Thursday’s lecture I had a few thoughts that came to mind, and I thought I would share them before I write on the content contained in the readings for this first week. I believe that my hermeneutics must first be Christocentric for three purposes: 1) to be drawn to Christ through a correct understanding of who He is as portrayed through Scripture; 2) to bring about clarification and unity within the body of Christ, as to who Christ was and is; and 3) a love for evangelism—making disciples as Christ’s great commission (Mat. 28.19)—springs forth only by viewing Christ in the beauty of His true character found in Scripture. On the lines of my third reason—evangelism and hermeneutics—I believe my hermeneutics should not be for exclusion so that I push others away that want to come to Christ. I must understand how to be faithful to my God and my neighbor. This does not mean I should lower, or diminish the Words of Christ. If I am called to “speak up” concerning an issue I will, but I must be loving in my rebukes with fellow Christian believers, as well as tender and understanding in my friendship with those of different viewpoints and ways of life. I don’t mean to downplay the truth, but my presentation of truth must not be for the purpose of condemnation, but to draw others to the true knowledge of Jesus, and furthermore to a life changing relationship with Jesus who is able then to make a believer from a non-believer. Unless my presentation is loving, understanding, and for the purpose of drawing and not dividing or condemning, correct hermeneutics will not even have the power to save the beholder of truth. The fullness of the gospel must change me first, and if I don’t allow it to, I have lost all I have been striving for. A candle in the darkness of a cave is no use for a blind man, and that is what I will be if the message of Jesus does not change me. Don’t misunderstand me, I agree with Alberto Trimm, who ends the first chapter of Understanding Scripture saying, “Adventists are convinced God has raised up the Seventh-day Adventist Church, within the challenges of the “last days” (2 Tim. 3:1), to restore and uplift the authority of His Word and to promote a system of biblical interpretation derived from the Scripture itself” (12), I just believe it must be done in a manner as if Christ was sharing the message Himself.
Moving to the content of the lecture and book of Dr. Hanna I found the four levels of revelation absolutely fascinating. I have never thought of placing Christ into the model of revelation. All my life I simply understood that Scripture is our main means of the revelation of Christ. I never thought to place Christ ahead of Scripture! Interestingly enough, in order to fully grasp Jesus Christ we must know Him for ourselves, but not simply by what other say about Him. Our knowledge of Him must come from a relationship with Him. The only problem that I find with the idea that the revelation of Christ precedes the revelation found in Scripture is that if I didn’t have the Scriptures to guide my prayer life with Christ I would never know Christ fully. (Once I get into the nitty and gritty of this I don’t seem to fully understand this). I guess my problem arises when I start asking, how exactly does Christ reveal Himself outside of the Scriptures to me personally? I know a few ways, my prayer life, and my life experiences, but once again these both have to be put under subjection of the Scriptures lest I am misled by my own thoughts or demonic thoughts. I in my opinion there should be a primacy of the Scriptures in this model. I fully agree that Bibliolotry is unacceptable, and that is not what I am advocating for, but “Christ” does not seem to be a revelation point in and of Himself without the knowledge of the Scriptures as the basis for a sure authority to my thoughts and experiences. Is this not what the problem was in the OT, and why Jesus had to come in the first place, to reveal the Father to fallen humanity in the flesh so they might know Him personally? Therefore if I put my prayer and daily experience—which is the only way I know to make Christ above Scripture—above the Scriptures I will fall into putting myself above the Scriptures. What are your thoughts?
I find myself in agreement with you concerning Christ as a form of revelation not really being a revelation. To me it seems plain that we cannot have Christ without the Scriptures for us in our modern day, since Christ is not living in this time. He has chosen to reveal Himself through the Scriptures and therefore the truth about who Christ is is revealed through the Scripture.
I have to say that I think much of our fear concerning the Holy Spirit has to do with the pentecostal movement. I believe this for two reasons: 1) Being Seventh-day Adventist's and understanding that a manifestation of the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues, but only in the form of a classical language. I think many of us fear to say, "let the Holy Spirit lead" would simply open up pentecostal portals, and 2) because we have not fully understood what role the Holy Spirit plays in the common members life. It could be that we have never had this Holy Spirit living modeled to us. I know that I haven't. What do you guys think?
To Owen as well as filip005, jCoker and Co. I can relate to what you have shared with us. It sounds ridiculous, but it’s really difficult for us, Adventists, Christians, humans, to give up our seeming control and bigheartedly make room in our lives for the omnipresent Spirit. There was time in my life when I’ve struggled with fears stumbling me to pray about the baptism of the Holy Spirit. First of all, I wasn’t sure if my church would understand me if the Spirit decides to give me “inappropriate” gifts? It took some time for me to surrender and accept possible inconvenience and challenges of the Spirit-filled life. My another concern was of an unexpected “sneaking” into me (or my church) of the evil spirits instead of the Holy One. That time I was relieved by recognition of the facts of Jesus promises that, first, God would never give us a stone instead of bread; secondly, He is much stronger than devil, so He would never allowed the enemy to occupy His property (Luke 11). According Jesus’ reasoning, it is much more dangerous to keep our hearts vacant, because there are many of those who are looking for an opportunity to move in with a troublemaking company. And finally, isn’t the Spirit the only way I can stay in touch with Christ? Jesus has chosen to be forever the partaker of the human family, embodied in our flesh. It is only by the ministry of the Holy Spirit Christ fulfils his promise “I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Revealing Jesus to us, the Spirit reveals himself, because they are one with Christ and the Father in divine nature and character. To be afraid of the Spirit is to be afraid of Christ. So, why should I? I guess, the same kind of fear as we may have regarding the Spirit, Muslims or Jews may have in relation to Jesus Christ and Christianity. As far as I understand, the strategy of misrepresentation has been employed by the ex Mr. Universe for a while. And we should give him a credit for his inexhaustible creativity, determination and effectiveness.
Reflection # 1. I’m thankful to Dr. Hanna for turning our attention and discussions toward the ministry of the Holy Spirit. One of the chapters in out textbook sheds light on the role of the Holy Spirit in interpretation of the Scripture, i.e. hermeneutics. Several other chapters indirectly deal with the role of the Spirit in the process of inspiration. But I got curious about the role of the Holy Spirit in relation to the divine revelation.
It’s difficult to get focused on the Spirit.
He is quite essential and important. His status is high. His position is noble. And yet He is the most humble and unnoticeable servant the world has ever known. He is like the air, that brings life, cares waves of light and sounds, molecules of smells etc., and yet is quite imperceptible.
Without Him no Cosmos, neither Church, nor Scripture, and not even Christ would be possible. There is no time in history or a place in the universe when and where he is not.
He sustains Cosmos. He hovered the world into existence. His presence is the breath of life for every living creature. He maintains the church. He anointed priests, prophets and kings. He equips saints for ministry. He distributes gifts. He illuminates Scriptures. He inspired holy men to write it. He has preserved it. He empowers people to live it. He glorifies Christ. He conceived Him, nourished Him, anointed Him and raised Him from the dead.
He is not a God’s revelation, but rather the Divine Revelator. He is the great communicator between heaven and earth. “It is his office to present Christ.” [SC 91.2] In our universe nothing takes place without His participation and mediation. Yet His close attention doesn’t threaten our privacy. His constant presence doesn’t limit our freedom. We may ignore Him, or even deny His existence, but he is here for us. Like a self-centered child I find myself more fascinated with spiritual gifts, then with the Giver. However, He Himself is “the most essential and complete gift to bestow upon us, a gift that would bring the boundless resources of grace.” He is the best gift our Kingly Brother could think of. The Holy Spirit is not considered to be one of the “books” of God’s revelation. It seems like it’s Ok with Him. It was His conscious choice to live for the glory and benefits of others. However, His humble unostentatious ministry always would be an eloquent revelation of the divine character for me.
Reflection # 1. I’m thankful to Dr. Hanna for pointing our attention and discussions toward the ministry of the Holy Spirit. One of the chapters in out textbook sheds light on the role of the Holy Spirit in interpretation of the Scripture, i.e. hermeneutics. Several other chapters indirectly deal with the role of the Spirit in the process of inspiration. So I wonder, what is the role of the Holy Spirit in divine revelation?
It is kind of difficult to get focused on the Spirit. He is essential and very important. His status is high. His position is noble. And yet He is the most humble and unnoticeable servant the world has ever known. There is no time in history or a place in universe when and where he is not. Like the air, He means so much, but gets noticed so little.
Yet without Him no Cosmos, neither Church, nor Scripture, and not even Christ would be possible. He sustains Cosmos. He hovered the world into existence. His presence is the breath of life for every living creature. He maintains the church. He anointed priests, prophets and kings. He equips saints for ministry. He distributes gifts. He illuminates Scriptures. He inspired holy men to write it. He has preserved it. He empowers people to live it. He glorifies Christ. He conceived Him, nourished Him, anointed Him and raised Him from the dead. He is not a God’s revelation, but definitely the Divine Revelator. He is the great communicator between heaven and the earth. “It is his office to present Christ.”[SC91.2] In our universe nothing takes place without His participation and mediation. Yet His close attention doesn’t threaten our privacy. His constant presence doesn’t limit our freedom. We may ignore Him, or even deny His existence, but He is here for us. Like a self-centered child I find myself more fascinated with spiritual gifts, then with the Giver. Still He Himself is “the most essential and complete gift to bestow upon us, a gift that would bring the boundless resources of grace.” He is the best gift our Kingly Brother could think of. The Holy Spirit is not considered as one of the “books” of God’s revelation. But it is perfectly fine with Him. It was His conscious choice to live for the glory and benefits of others. However for us His humble unostentatious ministry always may be an eloquent revelation of the divine character.
Comment to filup005: Relation between Christ and Scripture. This weekend I had a lot of time to meditate on things we’ve talked about in our class discussions, driving “to and fro” Maryland. The illustration of the way the books of God’s revelation interrelate in my experience was inspired, as you can see, by my surrounding circumstances. I’ve noticed, that cosmos may be compared with the net of roads. You may be there in the middle of traffic, moving along, not knowing where are you going. Scripture may be compared with downloaded maps. Now you can know the landscape, names of the roads and towns, distances between them. However, only by connection to the Satellite it is possible to find out information regarding your current location, to calculate the best way to rich the point of destination, and to know exactly where to make the right turn and take the right exit. It was God’s grace to provide us with the accurate map, the Bible. But without convincing influence and guidance of the Holy Spirit we have no idea how to apply it for our situation. The best we can do is to memorize it, discuss it, and write dissertations and commentaries on it. Yet it is advantage of those who has the connection with the Spirit of Christ to be in the right place at the right time with the right message. If time will come for us to race for life, we cannot maneuver on the roads without the map and direct instructions from the Navigator. So, I’d better learn to cooperate with them now.
Owen- thank you for your open and honest post. I believe we often feel the same as what you said. -In reflection I think I have supported this in principle but have been uncertain of what it looks like in practice, and more particularly have been afraid of relinquishing too much control, partly in fear of the unknown.
‘If my life is fully under the control of the Spirit then surely everything I do will be surrendered to Him’- this thought is very close to something I have had on my heart for quite a while. But it is true and right. When we are transformed by the spirit it will effect all aspects of our life. Even leading in our worship.
Response to Jonathan Coker Refection 1 ‘I think it is possible that decline in worship and the straying from sola scriptura are linked.’ I thought this was interesting and it would be neat to see if these two things were linked. Your statements on individuals disconnecting from worship is true I believe; I believe there are many things that effect this.
I don’t think you were implying this but I think that sometimes people can think or act like the Adventist church is outside of error. The bubble you talked about that we are not in is true. We are effected by the things around us and we do sometimes miss the mark. God is continually revealing more of himself to us. I liked what you said about the holy spirit working in our lives. That is truly how we will see or grow in and through the word.
Response to Viola’s first post; Viola, thank you for the thoughts you shared on the Holy Spirit, especially for pointing out two things about Him that I’d not really given much thought to before: Firstly, the example of humility that we see in this member of the Godhead. While we’ve also seen this in Christ I’d never thought of it as an obvious attribute of the Holy Spirit but I think you are right. Secondly, I really enjoyed reading your thoughts on the total involvement of the Holy Spirit. This just serves to emphasise His humility in that He does all this in a rather quiet way, not drawing attention to Himself, but rather with the aim that Christ will be lifted up. Thanks again.
Paul I believe you raise a valid concern. It seems that with so many of our Adventist truths so well developed, we tend to get a little lazy and skip steps along the way, easily re-deriving now what those before us labored long and prayerfully to arrive at. I think for myself I am sometimes too inclined to base my confidence in the fact that they did this rather than to take a personal lesson from it for my need to do the same. Many of us in Adventism know the “answers” (interpretations) but we don’t really understand the foundation because we haven’t grappled with things from first principles. This could lead to closed mindedness or alternatively an undervaluing of our beliefs. I think that to re-examine our “truths” with an awareness of our presuppositions is not likely to change much in the way of the final interpretations derived (but we should never feel certain of this). It may, however, add more insight, and it will increase our individual understanding of Scripture and our appreciation for Christ. It will also improve our witness. After all, we are told to be ready to give an explanation for what we believe, and shortcut answers don’t cut it with most. I guess we really do want to be known as a People of the Book, and not a People of our own closed-minded interpretations.
I am impressed to your oppinion about presupposition. For me, it seemed like wired to see people who are in different faith group has totally different point of view on the scripture. However, sometimes I had same feeling with some of the adventists. The question "What supposition do I have?" makes me think about the holy spirit.
While I was taking class, in lecture, and readings, I did not think about filup005's third reason. I feel like I just see the new perspective on revelation, and the Bible interpretation. I thought that the revelation, inspiration and interpretation is all about my understanding, but when I read him saying about relationship between the hermaneutics and evangelism, I am so impressed. Like we discussed the last class, about relevency about our interpretation, I personally agree and like filup005's idea linking these concepts. In this perspective, We can be a revelation of God, Inspired messanger and accurate interpretor of the word of God.
I found that our discussion of 7/13/2010, was very enlightening. I start by offering my apologies to anyone in class who I may have inadvertently offended. I know that my passion for certain things comes out, and such might be perceived as disrespectful, I mean no such thing. I am glad that God led me into the Adventist Church. I have learned a great deal about church history, biblical languages and now hermeneutics. The thing that I found most intriguing in today’s class was the different models relating to revelation, and my personal discovery of how easily the Church can intertwine the various primacies, to an extent, that heresy becomes the end result. I came to this realization due to my readings for Church History III. The early Roman Catholic Church slowly moved into the direction of placing the axiological prime over the epistemological primer. Their claims of papacy power and sole authority to interpret scripture, is an example of this change. As I thought of such I suddenly became aware that if we Adventist are not careful we too could begin to make the same change. It makes more sense today what EGW said, which Professor Hanna continues to share, that "We have nothing to fear for the future, except as we shall forget the way the Lord has led us, and His teaching in our past history." And in our attempts to prove the theological errors of others and provide evidence that our viewpoint is correct, it appears to me that we are in danger of sending a subliminal message that says that we too are willing to make the shift, as it pertains to the primacies. This has become evident in the words of some of our parishioners who say, “The only true church is the Seventh-day Church. We are the only ones with the truth.” I believe in my heart of hearts that if we were to make some minor adjustments in our language, thousands would come to Jesus. To use such phrases only makes us look like the same Church that we claim is the Anti-Christ. I fear that axiological and hermeneutical discoveries will become Prime and thus lead to heresy.
To view, from a biblical standpoint, that there is an Ultimate prime, whom we know as the incarnate God – Jesus, who is followed by other primes, such as the Holy Scripture, the Church and the Cosmos, is a holistic approach to biblical hermeneutics. Today it all began to mesh together. The a-ha moment was when I used the peanut butter and jelly sandwich to explain the idea of multiple primacies. I confess that this was not something I thought about, but rather something that came out spontaneously. The sandwich has variable substances as part of the whole, but each has its own characteristic/function. One cannot have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich without the bread, the jelly or the peanut butter. Together they represent the whole, and are part of one another as it relates to the sandwich, but separately they have a function. I see the multiple primacies concept in the same light.
I do believe that we have been called to preach a message for these end days. It is a message for those who have strayed away and for those who never knew Him. This is a message about Jesus as Prime and not the Axiological as Prime. It is a message of love, grace, forgiveness, repentance, and renewal. It is the proclamations of the imminence of Jesus’ second coming, the apostasy of “nominal” Christians, and the need to be obedient of all the Ten Commandments. This message encompasses the Cosmos as a whole and thus puts Jesus at the top, at the center, as Prime. If Jesus is not at the center of our message than all we are preaching is self. To move away from such is cause for fear; for then we have forgotten how God has led in the past. It is written that EGW ‘“saw Christ’s sacrifice as the “the great truth around which all other truths cluster”’ (Light Bearers, pg 163). It appears to me that Mrs. White was promoting the idea of Jesus as Prime.
As I was reading the chapter Faith, Reason and the Holy Spirit in Hermeneutics in our text (Understanding Scripture) the following quote from Ellen White provided stimulus for significant reflection: “If you come to the study of the Scriptures in humility, with earnest prayer for guidance, angels of the God will open to you its living realities.” Though having heard this kind of idea before, and have possibly even read this quote, I seem to have assumed that my mind was mostly closed to external influences and had never closely thought of angels in this light. I have typically only considered two contributors to my thoughts: God, who I talk with in prayer and who I believe is able to guide my thinking, and secondly the devil, who I also believe is able to place thoughts in my mind (I’d like to think that I am incapable of originating some of the thoughts that appear in my mind so where else could they come from?). At this point a light came on; if the devil who is simply a fallen angel is able to suggest thoughts to my mind then why shouldn’t other unfallen angels be able to? The thought that my guardian angel (whom I’ve believed in since childhood and must have caused much pain over the years) is by my side trying to open Scripture to me when I read, is a new and encouraging thought, especially when I consider all the efforts I know are going on to distract me. Don’t get me wrong; if you’d told me this was the case I would have readily agreed with you, but to agree with or vaguely comprehend something is not the same as having the truth, and implications of the matter, dawn on you in such a way that it impacts how you think. This is what I mean buy a light coming on. This observation also raised another question for me: Why doesn’t God leave all of this work to the Holy Spirit (who is Himself God)? Or in other words, why does the Holy Spirit use angels to do what I imagine He is well able to do himself? Could it be that they, like us, are blessed by the experience of helping to reveal the hidden things of God to others? As I consider this topic I have every reason to accept what Ellen White says about the angels’ involvement in this area. After all, doesn’t Paul say the following about angels: “Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?” (Heb 1:14), and doesn’t the Psalmist say, “He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.” (Psalm 91:11). I typically think of the role of angels in terms their providing protection from physical harm, but what could be more important than their ministering to us buy guiding our understanding of Scripture so that Christ is correctly revealed, and protecting us spiritually from the erroneous suggestions of fallen angels? If the angels are indeed God’s agents in the great conflict, which at its core is questioning God’s character, what could be more important than guiding us toward a correct understanding of God? They love God and are devoted to Him and I suspect they would consider this type of involvement a huge privilege, and would take it most seriously. Perhaps I need to take it more seriously too. As I read this chapter I found it quite sobering to see my personal Bible study in the context of the Great Controversy, with both good and evil influences contending to direct my mind. I understand more of the importance of sincere and humble prayer when opening God’s word. Further, I suspect that we have a tendency to underestimate the involvement of both realms of the supernatural in our lives. While I am wary of the danger of “worshipping angels” as Paul warns against in Colossians 2:18, I’m beginning to value more the role of my guardian angel and am interested in gaining a deeper understanding of this.
In reviewing the discussions of our first week of class, I can honestly say, that I've been captured by the exceeding greatness of a God who would choose to interact with me despite my "smallness". In attempting to decipher the semantics of the terms "Revelation, Inspiration, and Hermeneutics" and the various schools of thought, it is clear that the God of the universe and beyond is very intentional in His pursuit of creation as a source of communication and relation. He did not simply create us and remove Himself from our space leaving us to ourselves, but desires to engage in community, hence "Emmanuel, God with us".
What we fail to recognize is in fact the magnitude of this grace. Even in the Garden of Eden, grace was extended to Adam and Eve in that after sin, the Creator God desired our fellowship. So then, as I consider the word "theology" and come to understand it as "God-talk", I find myself rethinking the notion of being called a theologian. Am I truly a theologian as it is God who initiates the conversation and really does all the talking? God reveals Himself to His creation and if I am to understand that revelation, does it not require a stillness and an inclined ear/heart on my part.
So far, this material has been fascinating in the sense of beginning to truly grasp the fact that God through Jesus Christ seeks to integrate in and reconstitute my environment. Therefore, as I study His Word and become familiar with His character and person, not only is He revealed more clearly, but I am revealed more clearly. I am a sinner saved by grace!
The fact that God is leading us doesn’t mean we have a full understanding. We must continue to pray for illumination. We need a spirit of humility and recognize that it’s not just academic technique for an intellectual perception, but rather understanding that the Scriptures has a transforming element. Thus, evidence of a hermeneutical understanding is a transformed life. But the sad reality is that so many of us are failing to even study the Scriptures and thus it loses its novelty and it becomes as bland as rice without salt. How in the world then are we to grab hold and experience a truly fulfilling existence, when it wane in the balance of our lives? Does God not merit our full attention? Is He not worth our complete devotion?
On the other hand, we can know much about what the bible teaches without being really acquainted with the God of the bible. Moreover, we can have all the right hermeneutical moves but yet possess no real experience with the God we seek to “analyze”. Our relationship to God through the person of Jesus Christ is a living organism and profits us nothing if we continue to search the Scriptures without an intent to be transformed by it! Therefore, in order for us to discover and journey through our walk in Christ we essentially need to acknowledge the life He extends to us via this relationship as expressed in nature, Scripture, and the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is the central theme of Scripture and is thus the final authority. While it is very possible for us to learn from extra-biblical sources, the road must always lead us back to the God of Scripture. who interfaced with us through a divine-human interlude.
I also was quite astonished while reading that chapter. Somehow I had a strong conviction that only God can read our hearts and has access to our deep thoughts. I assumed, that Devil and angels, while effectively applying their profound understanding of human nature are banned to enter our inner spirit, unless a person would willingly reject God’s protection. I remember reading from E.G. White about the ability of the good and fallen angels to surround humans with light or darkness, faith or doubts and despair, but I thought of it as the external influence, that doesn’t cross the threshold of our hearts. So, that chapter has evoked my interest to study if the Bible and E. G. White talk about any divine firewall provided by God for our protection. There is another very curious detail I found in the commentaries of E. G. White regarding the connection between the Holy Spirit and the angels. In the vision to the prophet Zachariah the menora was shown, which was connected to the two olive-trees that supplied oil for it, representing the work of the Holy Spirit. “Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit' Says the LORD of hosts” (Zach 4). And then, answering Zachariah’s question about who are those two olive trees, the angel said: “These are the two anointed ones, who are standing by the Lord of the whole earth." E.G. White, commenting this vision says: “The anointed ones standing by the Lord of the whole earth have the position once given to Satan as covering cherub. By the holy beings surrounding His throne, the Lord keeps up a constant communication with the inhabitants of the earth.” In another place she says: “From the holy ones that stand in God's presence His Spirit is imparted to the human instrumentalities who are consecrated to His service. The mission of the two anointed ones is to communicate to God's people that heavenly grace which alone can make His word a lamp to the feet and a light to the path. "Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, saith the Lord of hosts." Zechariah 4:6. {COL 408.1} So, there is another link in God’s revelation I had no idea about ☺
I appreciate your passion in regards to the person of the Holy Spirit. He indeed is an integral part of the Divine and too often we reduce Him to a mere gust of "wind". In some sense, we are even afraid of allowing Him to express freely His person in our midst for fear of other manifestations. Could it be that we're not as free as the Son declared we could be through Him by our neglect of the very nature of the Holy Spirit which He promised?
Well put, "If we lose sight of God in our quest for knowledge then we have lost sight of what is truly important." Is not God who declares "You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart." (Jer. 29:13)? But somehow, we're searching for Him simply to prove a point and not for a true heart conversion and transformational overhaul of our characters. What's important at the end of the day is that there is less of me and more of Christ. Filling my head with knowledge about Him while not allowing the Holy Spirit to fill me with Him is a lose/lose battle. Thanks for your reflection.
I’m very grateful to God for the class discussion we had today. I really appreciate the way God has been guiding Dr. Hanna and all of you, guys, in sharing your insights and questions. Today I was blessed with two very significant discoveries. First, the explanation of Dr. Hanna about the ability of God to reach people, (which goes beyond the traditional circles of revelation that people use to exclude others out of the area of God’s grace), helped me to understand the DNA of the eternal gospel. This DNA makes easier to detach the essence of the gospel message from the incrustations of any religious tradition, including the Adventist one. So, the gospel in a nutshell is “God is salvation.” Able saw it in a sacrificial lamb. Abraham understood it too. “This same covenant [the first one with Adam] was renewed to Abraham in the promise, "In thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed" Genesis 22:18. This promise pointed to Christ. So Abraham understood it (see Galatians 3:8, 16), and he trusted in Christ for the forgiveness of sins. It was this faith that was accounted unto him for righteousness. {PP 370.3} The same gospel preached Paul, Luther, E. G. White and, hopefully, each one of us. It is true, that everyone who believes that God is salvation, even if the name Jesus is spelled differently in his culture, or sounds suspicious, or unfamiliar at all, is saved by God’s grace without the requirement to join any particular tradition and even “skip” some “circles” of God’s revelation.
The second insight came as a reflection on the question of Paul regarding “the light” and Dr. Hanna’s explanation of it. I recognized that bigger light is always relative to the decreasing of the light that still exists in the world from the beginning. For example, As soon as people began loosing knowledge of God (dusking time), God had chosen Abraham to rise up His own people, His church (bigger light, or forgotten old one). However, in the lifetime of Abraham still there were people who worshiped true God (Melchizedek). As soon as the chain of the oral tradition was lost, (even more dusking time), God has provided bigger light - the written word. As soon as people began doubt the fact of creation (very dark time), (The origin of species, 1859), God has raised the movement (bigger light). There still are those, who believe in creation, but the majority of Christians sees it as insanity. And if we accept theistic evolution (i.e. death came into the world not as the result of sin, but always has been a part of God’s original plan of the progressive evolution) what would become with the gospel? Who is Jesus then? May be today many other Christians have Jesus, but will they tomorrow? And, if “yes” than what kind of Jesus? The one who is salvation or just J-E-S-U-S? And the issue of creation is just one of many others that were implanted by God into the SDA movement. So, today my motivation to share the gospel and the “bigger light” with other people got a boost. Thanks, brothers.
I read chapter 4, revelation and inspiration by Fernando Canale. He pointed out very interesting things about revelation and inspiration. It can be different, divisive and difficult if each one of us has different understanding of inspiration of scripture. For me, personally, I never had problem with revelation. I believed that God shows something special to his people through various ways, and it was just simple to me. However, when I think about inspiration, it wasn’t easy to say that someone or some writing is inspired by God. It was helpful to see the basic idea to the different concepts of inspiration in the history. First of all, Dr, Canale mentioned “God-Breathed” concept which we dealt with Dr Hanna in class, and he also mentioned about Peter’s term “pheromenoi” and pointed out that the Holy Spirit is the one who leads us to understand. I liked his statement on page 49, “The statement of Paul and Peter teach rather significantly that God is the author of Scripture, of all Scripture. It was interesting to see the verbal inspiration, and Encounter Revelation. I have to admit that people tried hard to figure out what real scripture is, but I believe that even this process, we need the Holy Spirit in order to have biblical way of understanding. Later on, he mentioned the Adventist discussion, and he mentioned “thought Inspiration”. Dr. Canale finally, summarized 10 elements which we need to have in order to have biblical model of Revelation and inspiration. It seems like real challenge for us to determine which model we are going to employ because we have the gift of prophecy. This inspiration issue always makes us face the challenge. I felt that we need God’s revelation and His guidance to be inspired and even for the interpretation, we need the Holy Spirit in order to have right understanding of the bible. I read the chapter from the Cosmic Christ of Scripture, chapter 4, are Ellen G. White’s writings biblical?. It always makes me very interesting that the author always tried to point the scripture, but people who read her writings tend to focus on her writings only. Dr, Hanna continuously states that even Ellen White’s inspiration issue has to be solved by the scripture. The scripture is the only way to distinguish the divine inspiration. He also applied same method to Ellen White’s writings, to prove her writing is biblical. And all the method that he used to examine the writings of Ellen White, shows that Ellen White’s writing itself is biblical, and we need same spirit to have better understanding. Throughout the class discussion, I continuously discovered that how much we have to study the scripture not only as a Christian, but also as the spiritual leader of people. I saw the harmony between revelations and inspirations. I really liked the discussion that we had today about subjective and objective method, and it was really fascinating to see how I was blinded when I shared the message. The question “is God subjective? Or objective only” had great impact for me to think about myself.
I wonder how I am self centered to approach people, even God is approaching me, and help me to understand Him. God used our language in order to give us reveal him (revelation), and he gives the Holy Spirit to interpret and understand right. How much I need to be humble myself, and try to use people's language to introduce Jesus Christ.
I really like your illustration about the primacy by using peanut butter or jelly whatever, I got your point, and it helped me to understand more. I thought it was little bit complicated but when you mentioned everythings work together, but each element has its own characteristic, I was just got the my own idea (hope my understanding is right...). don't be worry, I really like your passion on this class my brother!~
I must read 2nd chapter in that book! I chose 4th chapter, but I think I need to read the 2nd one. anyway, when I was reading your comment about the involvement of Angel, I really like your insight like, Satan was the head of angels, and he fall, and he is able to deceive us, how about heavenly angels? what they can do? that question was so interesting, and remind me Daniel when he prayed, then the angel apeared him and gave him interpretation(even though he didn't understand, but it was truth!). I am kind of interested so much on this topic. Thank God he works so hard not by himself, but with the angels.
This week I think you can agree with me has been very intellectually stimulating. Whether it was conversation (class dialog/teaching) on objective or subjective or some other topic, I feel like have been challenged to reevaluate where I am at in my understanding of everything that I do. Through a different view that will be filtered through what the bible teaches. This week besides reading some of Dr. Hanna’s book I read the first chapter of Understanding scripture. Being able to see this brief broad picture of where interpretation came from has helped me see that as we talked about today in class (and in other classes) we cannot come to our understanding and say ‘this it’. We come with such great presuppositions when we come to our understanding of scripture. I think of the Pharisees in the time of Christ, they remembered their past and how their disobedience lead them into captivity, thus they were very legalistic in their interpretation as well as they’re practice of what scriptures said. They you have those that were more Hellenistic (in Greek culture), they adopted allegorical interpretations because it fit with their past understanding with Plato. What do you think?... do we react to our past experience and this experience becomes our presupposition? How do we not swing from one extreme to the other? I also see in these Pharisees the tendency to take the letter of the law without reflecting or viewing the spirit of the law. How can we guard against this as well? Both presuppositions as well as this letter v. spirit conversations are very close I think to the heart of what we need to address in our church. I am speaking from my point of view here because of some self-reflection that I have had recently. I am very good at seeing the letter of the law and feeling good at being able to check it off the ‘list’. At the same time I do feel I have been raised (and would hope that our church does understand something of the spirit of the law) with an understanding that there is more meaning in the words I read in scripture besides their literal meaning. I am excited as I come to a fuller understanding of what it truly means to follow the spirit of the law in a more comprehensive way in my life. One thing I struggle with is that I am presupposed to certain thoughts and tendencies that do not allow me (or that I don’t address and come to understand) to follow the spirit of the law. In our class discussions I remember us discussing things that we as Adventists tend to do and I resonated with them… at this moment I can’t think of an example. As I read more of the chapter on the history of biblical interpretation it mentioned avoiding our reliance on our presuppositions on the text itself. This has been a challenge in the past for those who have lead in our church and it will continue. But I am glad for the opportunity to look at this topic objectively (just kidding Dr. Hanna… ). But I am valuing this class that is challenging me to wrestle with my own pattern of how I go about interpreting scripture. And if I didn’t take anything else away… its keeping the bible as the foundation of it all. Understanding my presupposition to better be able to hear truth from the word.
Thank you for sharing on your reading of the chapter by Canale. As a result I will make this the next chapter I read. You mentioned the thought that it can be divisive and difficult when we each have different understandings of inspiration. It seems to me that this is a key reason for such diversity of denominations as well as beliefs within denominations. It just amazes me how many people want to call themselves Christians when they don’t even believe in the Bible as the inspired and authoritative Word of God. There seems to be a natural desire within us to twist Scripture to suit what we prefer. This is easy to see in others but I guess we need to check ourselves here also. I especially appreciated your comments on how much we as spiritual leaders need to study Scripture, and also on the need for us to be humble when communicating with others. The idea of us being spiritual leaders is humbling in itself IF we keep in perspective how great God is and how important this work is that we are called to, when compared with our finiteness. As long as we keep coming to Scripture with the correct heart I think the more we learn the more humble we’ll become, because we’ll see His greatness.
I read your question about whether we react to our past experience and allow this to influence our presuppositions. I have to agree that this would be the natural tendency and we probably do this more often than we realise. I’m starting to learn the importance of coming to the Scripture and asking, “What does the text actually say?” rather than, “What is my existing understanding of this text?” Hopefully this approach will begin to be a safeguard here. It also gives reason to go back again and again to the Bible when I realise that there is going to be more to it than my existing understanding. Like you I also find it is often easy to see the letter of the law and miss the spirit. One thing that has led me (at times) to try and see the spirit of the law is when I see someone being harshly judged by the letter of the law and I find myself wanting to understand a way to show more of the love of Christ without undermining His law. So if we read the law with a love for others and the understanding that it comes from a God of love this might help drive us more in the right direction. God loves people and he gave His laws for our benefit so the spirit of the law shouldn’t be unnecessarily arbitrary or harsh even if the letter appears that way. The desire to discover the letter should be fuelled largely by our love for others and our desire to represent God appropriately. Could it be that when we apply only the letter of the law we are actually providing more support for the Devil in his accusation of God as being unjust?
First of all I would like to talk about the comment made by Viola earlier this week. She expressed her opinion that the key to fixing the problems in our church is the youth. The vast majority of elderly people in our church have closed their minds to considering new truth. Our problem is then how do we change what we know needs to be changed. The answer is our youth. They are the impressionable ones with open minds, which will one-day lead our church. Why then don’t we poor more of our resources into youth ministries? I have always thought this but I have never heard anyone else say it, so thank you Viola for sharing that in class, I really appreciated it. Youth ministries are one of my biggest passions. I really think it is possible to change our church and the world if we start with our youth.
After attending class this week and reading the assigned passages, I have realized that the more I know about theology, the Bible, and God the less I really know about theology, the Bible, and God. I have often wondered why it is that God makes some things in the Bible and life for that matter so difficult to understand. My revelation is that God created us with the ability to critically think about things. He doesn’t want for us to stay on baby food our entire life. He expects us to learn and grow so that we can handle grown up food. How can we expect learning about the creator of the universe to be simple? He is an incredible being capable of love beyond our understanding, so of course some things will be more difficult to understand. The challenge, I think, is to be able to realize how powerful and complex our God is, while at the same time remembering how simple He can be. He is alpha and omega and yet He sits next to you in class or in the car.
Retaining this understanding is important when studying the Bible too. My favorite illustration was from the beginning of the third chapter of The Cosmic Christ of Scripture. According to The Cosmic Christ of Scripture, “We often treat the Bible like a child instead of treating it like the word of our divine Father.” Some concepts in the Bible seem simple, as though they can simply be taken for face value such as the Ten Commandments. However we know that “Thou shall not kill” is extended beyond killing someone physically. We can kill someone with our words too. I think this further proves my point about God being both simple and complex. In order to have the whole truth, to know God completing we must allow for Him to be both by your side and holding the universe in His hands. I think things can be simple and complex at the same time.
The thing that struck me out of our reading from Understanding Scripture: An Adventist Approach was the part that talked the Cosmic Conflict and Hermeneutics. This section talked about the attempts of Satan and evil angels to redirect interpretation of the Bible. I suppose I have always known that Satan is behind the misunderstandings of the Bible, but it didn’t hit home until I read it out of the book. I can see now better than before the importance of prayer before reading the Bible. It has always seemed like a good idea but now it seems essential. Human error alone is enough to impress me to call on God before I open His word but realizing the other side is hard at work to make me miss interpret the scriptures has really opened my eyes. We have to be on guard against the enemy.
Ryan I love you question "How do we keep from swing from one extreme to the other?" It is something I have spent a great deal of time considering. It is human nature to cling to one extreme or the other. I think that the only way to over come is to replace our human nature with God's. It is not any easy answer but the best ones usually aren't.
I really enjoyed the discussion we had in class about light as well. I never made the connection of the loss of light to God's continual effort to bring bigger light into our lives. You are right, God has made continuous efforts through out the entire history of this world to bring the bigger light to us.
To jcoke Jonathan, it is so cool that God stirs your passion for youth ministry!!! Coming back to our discussion about facilitating changes in our church I should confess that this experience helped me to recognize ineffectiveness of the exclusive language, even if it helps to make a point. I believe that for considering any change in the church it is necessary to understand that it is much more complicated an issue than generational differences. “Conservatives” or “liberals”, old folks or youth, traditional or contemporary, all such opposites are the derivatives of the exceptional “either/or” mentality, Dr. Hanna is helping us to debunk. Talking about changes it is evident that there is much more space for creativity in building a new construction from ground zero, than in remodeling an existing one. It’s almost impossible to escape mess, clouds of dust, some sense of devastation and even injury during a reconstruction. But I doubt that it’s God’s purpose for anyone to die or to get injured under the heap of ruins. In this case it is much better to leave an old and plant something new. When Jesus had to face similar challenges he used to say: “No one puts a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment; for the patch pulls away from the garment, and the tear is made worse. Nor do they put new wine into old wineskins, or else the wineskins break, the wine is spilled, and the wineskins are ruined. But they put new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.” I really like His attitude: to preserve both. “Every scribe (or an MDIV student (according my crippled hermeneutics) instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old.” An old building under good care becomes an antique treasure, a local attraction that has its own value and virtue, suitable for a particular historical situation. In a similar way each one of us is a reflection of God’s thought fixed in time, and earlier or latter we’ll all become in our earthly life quite inadequate to present reality, at least for a younger generation. When my time will come to save residue of energy on changes in order to survive, Lord, please, send on my way that kind of a scribe. ☺
Reflection Response #2- Owen Ellis- ‘On the role of Angels in hermeneutics’
Owen, I appriciate your observations on angels being involved in opening to us more of what God would want us to understand. When you first mentioned how Satan puts thoughts in our heads I was at ‘first response’ thinking that this was not right. But we do live in a world where he (Satan) is in control of our world. But I loved the thought so much about how you talked about how our angels (unfallen) are working for our good. I think of just a few minutes ago when I was reading the Word. To think that I have a helper in my heavely angel- Awsome! Your statement- ‘Could it be that they, like us, are blessed by the experience of helping to reveal the hidden things of God to others?’ I think Owen that you could write a book on this thought! Its great! I think its right that the angels take it seriously (their work) and that yes… I/we should take our work seriously as well. I respect your thoughts on this topic. They seem very biblically based and well thought out. Thank you for sharing
Johnathan, I affirm your passion for youth in our church. And investing in them is something that needs to happen. I do know many who are presently working with youth in the leadership of our church. They love youth and have the same passion you expressed in your reflection. If we could partner with them to continue to grow God’s family! That would be great! I feel what your saying about finding out there is so much more to learn! And that our God is ‘easy’ to know but in the same breath ‘not easy’ to know… We serve an amazing God. Thank you for bringing out some points that I was able to reflect on for a few minutes.
I read Dr. Baldwin’s article and Dr. Hasel’s article, those articles just blow my mind because of my humanly thought. How limited I am! And How blessed I am to have a access to the word of God, and learning to know how to get to know the original meaning of passages in the scripture! Not only the Scripture itself, but also I felt I have so many different access to different resources those give me the accurate message of God. When I read Dr. Baldwin’s article, the question that he asked made me interesting, “can our fallen reason be used to interpret the scripture?” I never thought about that before, and I never asked this question before. I always tried to find the answers that make sense to me. When we had discussion yesterday about natural Law and Moral Law, and I was asking this question that why do we use the term “break” to God?. the reason why I had that question was I thought we should not put our God in our understanding box, and forcing Him to make everything understandable. When I see Dr. Baldwin’s question, I saw exactly where I am, because I was the one who read and interpret the Scripture I-centered. The good news is God can transform my heart and mind to be adequate to understand the scripture. I read 2 Chronicles, and the chapter where I read kept mentioning about being humble to the voice of God, and that just remind me how I need to be when I approach to the word of God. I agree with that we need to use our reason to reveal the message of God from the scripture but I believed that our human reason is enough. I read the Cosmic Christ of Scripture, and the chapter I read, Dr, Hanna mentioned the harmony of the human nature and divine nature. I believed that not only the hermeneutics, but through out our practice of faith, and journey we need to be harmonized with God, and that’s how it works. I also read about presuppositions that we have as sinners, and the presuppositions that we need to have as children of God who approach to God’s word. It just impressed me that the presupposition that I have is not the philosophical ideas, but the attitude toward to God. Dr. Hasel applied all spirituality based elements to biblical interpretation, and reasoning by the Scripture. I could see how biblical method works in his writing. I imagine when we get to heaven, I believe that God will explain the original meaning of the scripture not only to the Adventist, but all people who saved by grace, and I think all of us have to admit that we do not fully understand but it was enough for us to understand by our human frailty. There are many issues in our day, 24 hour creation day, the nature of Jesus Christ, understanding miracle, and when we approach to these issues, what sort of presupposition that we have in our minds? And also, I want to ask question that does God need to give the all answers by human way of understanding? I believe that our humanly way of thinking needs to be work with the divine inspiration in order to have close access and understanding of God. But still, this question just hanging on my mind. “Can God break the Law?” what does it mean?
I absolutely agree about putting more into Youth Ministry. We have to be so much more aware that the Youth will soon be leaving our church after their college experience, for various reasons. So, our money, time and energy needs to be diverted from wherever our focus is now, and start looking at Evangelism for Youth in the postmodern culture we live in. Otherwise the average age of Seventh-day Adventists will only rise higher and higher, now its in the 50s...what will it be next year? 60s?
I found a really cool video on our Cosmic Christ Website...its one of the first video's called "Are we born with blank slate minds?" by Steven Pinker, it would be a good reference for you. I just wonder bro, can I ever come to the Scriptures and say, "Lord, I am forgetting everything I ever learned from childhood about You, I want to learn afresh, but this time only from the Word of God." Can I ever learn something truly without coming to it with a bias? Will we ever think truly "rationally?" simply based on the facts presented? I hope you figure this out for me... Filip
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the discussion that included the essence of the gospel. I also appreciated the discussion on salvation and its availability even to those who haven’t heard of the name of Jesus or who may know God by another name. While I certainly do not hold to the idea that all religions lead to the same God (they are crafty efforts of the Devil to sidetrack people from discovering the true God and from responding to His witness in their hearts), I see Paul teaching in Romans 2 that as long as a person is acknowledging God in their heart and responding to whatever light they have they are saved. This salvation is still only because of what Christ has done. Imagine what it will be like for them in heaven when they meet Jesus and learn of what He has done in order that they might be there. C. S. Lewis certainly had an idea of this as is illustrated in a scene in his final Chronicle of Narnia, The Last Battle, where a soldier who had lived a good life while at the same time being loyal to the only god he knew (a false god) makes it into heaven. The way Lewis depicts the scene is food for much theological discussion. We need to be very careful in limiting who God might save based on a simplified reading of one or two texts. I'm glad that I was reminded of this in class.
Jonathan, thanks for your thoughts on how as we learn more of theology we discover how little we know. Reading your comments reminded me of the words of Paul in Eph 3:17-19: “[I pray] that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend, with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height – to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge that you may be filled with all the fullness of God” (NKJV). Not only is God so grand that we will never come to a full knowledge of Him, but His love is so fast that it can never be fully explored. I really appreciate the following Ellen White comment on this: “If it were possible for created beings to attain to a full understanding of God and His works, then, having reached this point, there would be for them no further discovery of truth, no growth in knowledge, no further development of mind or heart. God would no longer be supreme; and men, having reached the limit of knowledge and attainment, would cease to advance. Let us thank God that it is not so. God is infinite; in Him are “all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.” Col. 2:3. And to all eternity men may be ever searching, ever learning, and yet they can never exhaust the treasures of His wisdom, His goodness, and His power” (5T, 703)”. Thinking on this is humbling, and also encouraging – no need of ours, physical or spiritual, falls beyond what He has the resource to supply.
Thanks for sharing with your final question: “‘Can God break the Law?’ what does it mean?” This is a mind-bending question but I’ve really enjoyed our discussions so far and I really do think Dr Hanna is on the right track. God’s law is really a reflection/revelation of His character and who He is. Therefore, since the Lord does not change (Mal 3:6) His character does not change. In other words it would be outside of His character to behave in ways that were contrary to His law, including the laws that He has set up to govern nature. So perhaps when it appears that He has broken some apparent law of nature God is merely invoking another law that we don’t yet know about. An illustration could be the way the Wright brothers invoked the law of aerodynamics that were not understood by many, to apparently break the law of gravity. Both of these laws always existed and acted together as a unified whole. I suspect our thinking is rather one-dimensional, or simplistic, whereas God works in many dimensions, but always in accordance with the sum of those laws that govern the whole universe. We also tend to separate the physical or natural laws from the spiritual but I believe that for God these are all part of one Law that He always abides by. When we sinned He could not simply do away with the law that sin brings death. His solution to sin was to fulfil that law in Christ and also invoke other aspects of the Law that allow Him to give us new lives and save us for eternity.
Firstly I want to mention how much I am enjoying our classes together. I’m starting to wish our group could have met for a full semester rather than just a month. I sit there listening to everyone’s comments and appreciate how much each of you know and what we can learn from each other. Praise God for this.
Violeta: Thanks for your reflections on the role of angels. I think that what you said about the Devil and his angels being banned from entering our spirit is correct. I believe that while only God can read our thoughts (though the Devil can reader body language), and while we choose who controls us, other beings are able to suggest thoughts and bring impressions. “Satan is ever seeking to impress and control the mind, and none of us are safe except as we have a constant connection with God” (4T, 542). Further; “Satan takes control of every mind that is not decidedly under the control of the Spirit of God” (TM, 79). As I’ve been reading a little on the topic of angels I’ve been impressed, and filled with thankfulness to God, as I learn of the ways in which God provides for our protection in this battle. Praise God, we are not alone!
During my research on angels I discovered the following statement that amazed and encouraged me: “Do you humbly, heartily make known your wants to your heavenly Father? If so, angels mark your prayers, and if these prayers have not gone forth from feigned lips, when you are in danger of unconsciously doing wrong and exerting an influence which will lead others to do wrong, your guardian angel will be by your side, prompting you to a better course, choosing your words for you, and influencing your actions” (3T 363, 364). I did not realise that they could have such influence over us. This should not surprise me considering my belief in the influences of the Devil and evil angels. So the unfallen angels, as the agents of God, do His work in the earth, even working in us, choosing our words and influencing our actions. While the Devil and his agents do this by force, God never forces Himself on us.
More specifically on hermeneutics, I’m considering the question, can the angels guide and influence our thoughts as we study God’s word? Based on Ellen White’s understanding I believe the answer is an unqualified “Yes!” Then follows the question, does the Bible support this? I believe that there is very strong implicit Biblical support for this. I’m still clarifying my rationale, but here are some thoughts to date: God’s angels are ministers to us (Heb 1:14), God gives His angels to keep us in all our ways (Ps 91:11 – am I stretching the context here or must this be applied only to physical protection?), God is even more concerned about our spiritual safety than physical (Mat 10:28), angels take a passionate interest in our salvation (Luk 15:10, 1 Pet 1:12), a correct understanding of truth is important to our salvation (Jon 8:32; 17:17,19), we accept that fallen angels can heavily influence the human (many Bible examples of full possession), therefore would it not be Biblical to accept that unfallen angels have similar abilities. Based on these understandings, surely we can confidently deduce that unfallen angels, as agents of the Holy Spirit, are able to influence us significantly in all matters of life, including with our understanding of the truths in Scripture.
What do you think? Is this a “proof text” conclusion with holes, or is it the result of a more holistic reading of Scripture. Is this something that is only implicit in Scripture and that we can’t hold in confidence unless we also have confidence in the writings of Ellen White? Or could we say that this truth is already clearly taught by Scripture and that Ellen White simply drew our attention to it? Personally, while I initially accepted what Ellen White said on this topic due to my belief in her writings, I am coming to the point where I may no longer need to lean on her authority to believe this with confidence, as I am seeing it to be very more clearly taught in Scripture than I’d thought.
I can easily say that the topic of miracles was the most difficult concept for me to come to terms with in the class. After I spent some time thinking about it however it seemed to make more sense. I suppose the biggest problem I had was that it seemed to make God’s miracles somehow smaller. It felt like it put God inside of a small box, as if He was not capable of any great miraculous phenomenon. However the truth is even greater than that. Our God and all His power and spender is in fact capable of stepping outside of His law but choose not to. He chooses to work within the boundaries He has set up. This only attests to His perfect character. Here is a being that could have wiped out the entire human race or not even created Lucifer. Instead He allowed us to make our own choice to follow Him and when we turned away He decided to save us. He didn’t simply snap His fingers, in order to save us He work through His own laws. This tells me that God would sooner sacrifice His own son before He broke His own laws. There are still some parts that I do not completely understand but I will continue to study and grow until that day comes when He can explain it all to me in person.
In my reading of The Cosmic Christ of Scripture I came across the section that talks about Christ being the Theme of the Bible. This seemed like such a normal and accepted idea that I almost missed it in my reading. There are times when we study things and come across something we have heard before and we miss the new truth that could be in it. It goes in one ear and right out the other but this time the illustration caught me attention. The modern day spiritual leaders of the time knew the Bible. Why then was it that they did not recognize Christ when He came to them? Is it possible to become so bogged down into the text that you miss the theme of the text? We have to guard ourselves and make sure that when we are studying the revelations of God that their light is guiding us to a greater understand of Him. I haven’t heard a lot of sermon about how dangerous the Bible can be if it is misused. We see how dangerous it is when me misinterpret nature. There is an entire divide within our church over the proper interpretation of nature. How much greater can the divide become if we allow ourselves to be thrown off by the Scriptures? Everything, absolutely everything must point back to God. It was the example that Christ gave us. He continually pointed towards His heavenly Father.
In the book Understanding Scripture I read about the topic of presuppositions. This is a topic that we have discussed in some detail in class but when I read through it this time, I found myself thinking about how difficult it is to keep a balance between everything in life. I have found that God likes to keep me in a place where I feel at least a little bit uncomfortable. I never have all that I need to feel completely secure. Whether it is a bill I am not sure how to pay for or an idea that I can’t understand. I think God likes to keep me on my toes so that I will depend more on Him and less on myself. It has been my experience that people who have all they need tend not to depend on God as much. After all who needs God when you have everything thing under control?
I was really interested by what you said about how we need to make sure we stay in harmony with Christ as we read the scriptures. This is a major concern for anyone that is studying the Scriptures. I think we would all have a better understanding of what we read in the Bible if we first asked if how we are interpreting what we are reading is in harmony with Christ. There are so many problems that we face as a church and as individuals that would simply become none factorable if we asked ourselves that question first.
I really like your illustration of an old building under good care become an antique or treasure. This and what it represents is very true. There are many great leaders within our church. Men and Women of gravitas and faith that have much to pass on to the next generation. I wish is that we can train the coming generation(s) to have many more in their number with equal if not greater amounts of wisdom and understand to pass. Everyone has a mentor or someone that was shaped and effected them. All of us have a story about someone that has helped us to know and understand God better. I would never want anyone to think that I am completely negative towards all of our elders. I only want to see less of the bad and more of the good and the youth is the best way I know how to do that.
Blog 2: Evangelism in a postmodern world based on a correct understanding of Jesus, yet with caution to legalism
I don’t know how many of you were inspired Dr. Hanna’s model of evangelism to postmoderns as he presented in class, but I just found it to be so freeing to hear someone who is willing to do whatever it takes to bring this generation to a saving relationship with Jesus. We cannot push our churches beyond the limits of their ability to cope with the shift in thinking towards evangelism, but we must not be afraid to challenge them to rise up to a broader understanding. Each leader must know their church intimately to know what these limits are. If the leader is unsure of what the evangelistic method limits are than I would suggest: 1) throwing out a question in conversation with several groups about a more “postmodern” method of evangelism that hasn’t been tried in that church or group and see how they respond, 2) teach about the history of early Adventists and how their ideas were quite radical for their time, then ask people what they think about that, and how that might apply to our day, and 3) preach a sermon on the supposed “radical” ways of ministry, and evangelism in particular as practiced by Jesus for his time period. Personally I don’t think that people fully read into the life of Christ as presented in the gospels, and than applying that to our current day. Overlooking the application of the daily life of Christ in our day is cause to so loss of freedom that could be experience, and freedom that is in Christ! Preaching done through the eyes of Jesus really awakens people to understand that they are not confined to their presuppositions or that of their group, or church, or denomination, and what they thought Jesus was like but that they can actually study the life of Christ as revealed in the Scriptures and allow that to speak for itself! Our ideas about Christ have been a hindrance, because they have been based on our presuppositions rather then truth.
Jesus talked with a woman who was caught in adultery (Jn. 7.53-8.11) and he didn’t condemn her for her way of life, but called her to a new understanding, he raised her to new level of living. So, we too can and should to the same with our hermeneutics, we should use them to draw people to Jesus rather than condemning them. Like I said in my previous blog, if our hermeneutics are simply to protect and benefit our personal presuppositions, then we have an incorrect understanding of what hermeneutics are for. Also, our hermeneutics should not be so set in stone that they don’t allow us to interact with our culture. Rather they should be broader, not the kind of broad that is relativistic, but the kind of broad that sees that “my way is not the only way.” When I say this I am simply calling for a hermeneutic that allows for openness, and dialogue. Not to say we will change our mind about what we believe is right (although it is possible), but that we are not so close-minded and fearful, that talking with a non-Christian would cause us to stumble and fall into a life of sinful living. I bring all of this up to say, it should be our goal to look for as many ways to interact with those who do not know Christ, or those who don’t have a relationship with Jesus in this postmodern era as possible. I heard several months ago from Pastor Japhet, the chaplain for missions at Andrews University that, Seventh-day Adventists used to be number one in Youth Ministry methods in all denominations, fifty years ago. Why did we loose our influence on other Christians in how ministry is done? I believe it is because we became set, “set” in a legalistic sense. Set, in a way that meant only one way was possible, or else we were doomed, or damned, or headed for Babylon. (This is my presupposition as to what happened). I am not trying to advocate a pendulum swing that ignores that work of those who have tried to “protect” our church from “worldly” influence, but I want to help correct it, bring it back into perspective, without falling into legalism on the other end.
Thanks for sharing a number of great thoughts in your above posting. Perhaps the one I appreciated the most was the reminder that the purpose of hermeneutics should be to draw people to Jesus and not to condemn them. The reminder that they are not simply to protect and benefit our presuppositions was also great – something we need to double-check ourselves on regularly. It is easy to forget this and use them defensively rather than as a means of discovering Christ. That was also an insightful comment on youth ministry and how our church used to be leading in this field. Our youth leaders and ministers today have a huge challenge. Perhaps one of the problems is that we compartmentalise things too much as a church and have left youth ministry up to a small group of overworked leaders rather than ensuring that we are all involved in it.
Jonathan, you mentioned that you haven’t heard a lot of sermons about how dangerous the Bible can be if it is misused. That caused me to wonder if I’ve ever heard a sermon on this topic. Could it be that while we all say we believe in the Bible we are not always sure what that means? If we are discovering how much we have to learn about how we read the Bible, including an awareness of our own presuppositions, it is likely that many more are in this situation. I’d love to see your first sermon on this topic when you write it. I think it would be easier to show the dangers of misreading scripture in a single sermon than to present a clear understanding of how to avoid this – but we must do both. Hopefully our journey here will help us in this area. I’ve really enjoyed this class for the insights gained so far, though I’m not sure I’m quite ready to write that sermon myself. God Bless.
Blog # 3: Reflecting on the way God has arranged the past week of my life, I’ve noticed that the most valuable realization of the week came from the thoughts Dr. Hanna shared with us in the class in regard to the “unbrokenness” of God’s law. I guess it is the first time in my life when some pieces of the “law puzzle” have gotten into one clear fragment and now I can see that my whole picture of God requires some rearrangement. It’s not as everything has suddenly clicked in my mind, but this shift has provoked a chain reaction that is still in the process. There are just few insights I’m able to formulate so far:
• Coming from the country where law always has been just a toy in the hands of the ruling top, I didn’t recognize how much this reality influenced my understanding of God’s law. It’s funny, but the realization of the fact that God is not arbitrary in His judgment and actions, that the moral and natural laws are as permanent as God Himself is, even to the extend of His own Son’s death, and that even by performing “miracles” God doesn’t infringe the law, all those facts have increased sense of security and peace in me.
• I see now, that by transgressing the law I repudiate God, because He is the law. He cannot become someone who He is not. Trying to manipulate with the law I manifest that I do not appreciate God. I do not take seriously His principles and personality. I don’t accept Him as He is. And in fact I do not know Him. It is impossible to love God and not to love His law, as it is impossible to love a person, but hate his/her character and personality. I know that it sounds so trite, but this time it makes much more sense to me.
• If God’s law is just who He is, then His perception of any transgression of the law differs form mine. I don’t suffer because someone somewhere had stolen something. But I feel bad if I was robbed. For God every sin in the universe is against Him personally. He is deeply involved in every murder, rape, sickness, betrayal, because He sustains life of a murderer, a thief, a drug dealer. Every morning God Himself renews struggles of deadly sick, lonely, abused, or handicapped people. By doing that He prolongs His Own and our pain. God’s love toward sinners may be measured by extend of His and mine sufferings. It means that any suffering in our life is in some sense redemptive. If God wouldn’t extend His suffering and the suffering of many generations before me, there wouldn’t be me. If I wouldn’t struggle the results of sin, there won’t be time for salvation of my grandchildren. But, the measure of my pain is nothing in comparative with God’s struggles. People can rest in the first death, God can’t. Every day He has to go through endless crucifixions of His children. Now the words of Jeremiah have acquired a new dimension for me: “Because of the LORD’S great love we are not consumed, for his compassions never fail. They are new every morning; great is your faithfulness.” Lam 3:22,23
Comment on filip005post Reading Filip’s post and Owen’s comment on the use of hermeneutics I was caught by realization that almost all products of our Adventist biblical research are defensive or apologetic in its basic premise. DARCOM is a bright example of it. The main method among students to pick up a topic for a research project is to find a controversial area where correctness of our beliefs was threatened by a different view. I don’t remember myself doing an academic research on something that was not controversial, just for the sake of learning something new about Jesus. God, have mercy…
Owen I find it appalling that we simply delegate the responsibility of youth ministry to a specific group and expect them to do it all. Why don't churches collectively see that if we do not purposefully engage the young at all levels we will lose them, and sooner than later. We need more mentors. We need people who will stand up and say, I am not simply going to go to school and work, but I will give of myself to someone and ensure that they will be nurtured and directed by friendship, fun and, teaching faithfulness to Jesus. Ministry is simple when it deals with young people, (events are what get complicated), but ministry with the young is simply being a friend to them, and anyone can do that!
I think my heart is about to stop simply thinking about what you said in your final comment. What have we done! We find ourselves in an apologetic mode at all times! What about studying about Jesus, instead of studying how to defend our doctrinal distinctives. "God have mercy" is right. Our love for Jesus must be greater than our love to be in the right. We must shield ourself with the Word against "foes" but if it isn't coated with Jesus, what is all for?
I too am touched by the words of Dr. Hanna in regard to the idea of "natural law" being distinctly part of who God is. I have never thought of it in such a way, and it has really made obedience in the Christian life so much more reasonable when viewed from God's perspective of natural law.
Owen, I’ve read the quotes in your post and now I’m puzzled. I do not know anymore if it is a good way to pray silently? If angels do not have direct access to our thoughts how would they know my petitions?
Jesus taught: “When you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.” But from the context it seems like he didn’t mean a silent prayer. May it be that by lack of out loud prayers I limit my communication with heaven?
Presupposition: Our worldview or focus on the world in which we live is made up of presuppositions. Through these presuppositions facts are gathered about the world around us. These facts that we gain create the worldview that we follow. For example; if you have a presupposition of Theism and scripture, than the way that you come to the facts in the world will be looked at different then if you came to them with say an evolutionary presupposition. Looking at things through the latter would cause you to view differently the facts of science, history, social sciences, and the supernatural world. Understanding this topic and reflecting on our own presuppositions is very important because how we interpret all that happens around us comes from presupposed ideas that we have gained in our lifetime. At times people might think that they come to an issue or topic with no presuppositions, but ‘no one is able to approach the biblical text with a blank mind.’ And as we attempt to do proper hermeneutics we must come to understand the presuppositions that we have when we come to the text. Not believing we have nothing that is affecting our understanding or decisions on a specific topic is misleading and dangerous. In the spring of 2010 I took a class intensive called Worship and Music. This class besides the present hermeneutics class forced me to reflect, ponder and evaluate why I believed the way I did. Were the things that I was doing wrong? Where the conclusions I was coming too not bases on scripture? Now that I am taking hermeneutics class I see that what I was facing in this class was the presuppositions that I had set up for myself. I had told myself- this is how it is… But I am coming to realize and understand that most often ** when we come to some thing legalistically we are often basing these off of presuppositions that we have set up because of our upbringing and or our present understanding of ‘truth’. This doesn’t necessarily mean that it is THE truth. As I think about this topic of coming to understand our own presuppositions I wonder if we do not deceive ourselves sometimes. Do we think we understand our presuppositions but some things that would help us come understanding everything better are hidden from ourselves. Today I was actually walking with a friend and we were talking about the expectations of SDA’s in regard to their tithe. I was saying things in reference to all ‘those’ SDA’s and my friend said- you have them! You have these expectations of what you want or are ‘entitled’ too because we pay tithe. This is a small example to a presupposition that I didn’t think of for myself that I possibly could have had.
Thank you very much for your open and honest comments on what you have been learning and how you have been growing. I found it interesting how you have been able to reflect on your experience in this class in relation to where you were raised. I as well have been growing and I as well am in the process of coming to a better understanding through what we are studying in this class. Thank you for the new and interesting thoughts as well as providing another opportunity to reflect on our class discussions.
Reflexion#2 In the book of understanding Scripture I really think about the Christian approach about the guide line of interpretation. The Biblical process called grammatical approach is considered as one of perfect method that I believe in. It is very valuable in the understanding of the Scripture.When someone ask you a question about statement,it to the Holy Spirit to act on the understanding of the historical content of the person living with its custom and tradition.we observe that in Genesis the need to let the people of God know that not only the king and royalties are made in the image of god Egypt but they were brought under slave,wanted to know that there is a God, who has made them in His image and He has delivered them from slavery. We also, see the story of faith by working with GOD. that historical helps clear data the confusion people have. likeness
Response to Filip pt2 For past #3 TThank you for the thoughts my friend. I loved how you used the Word in your blog. As well as comparing it with how we are to lead/guide people to Christ through what we do. When you had that line about ‘flexable hermeneutics’… I had a little… hum… because my thought was that our hermeneutic method should be sound thus leading us to what you explained latter in the blog. So Yes I agree with you… being open and honest with others, being able to listen and participate with other will take God’s message a long way. Thanks again for sharing.
Blog 3: It Depends How You View The Light: The Death of Young Man and What that has to do with Revelation, Inspiration, and Hermeneutics.
“A man drowned Sunday night [July 25, 2010 at 8 pm] in Lake Michigan at Silver Beach, city police confirmed,” it said in the Southwest Michigan Herald-Palladium. This was the first time I have ever witnessed the death of anyone. It happened just last night when Elena and I were going to go play some volleyball at Silver Beach in St. Joseph. When we arrived there were police all over, people were standing around, and then we looked out onto the water and there was a large crowd surrounding the shore, with boats driving back and forth, jet-ski’s following close behind, and a large line of people in the water trying to locate the body of a 26-year old young man that had gone under thirty minutes prior to our arrival. As we stumbled around for ten minutes in shock of what we were watching, a small cheer emerged from those on the shore. I ran to see what it might be. They located the boy, and a group of five people carried him to shore and began CPR immediately. They pushed on his chest with no avail for almost five minutes or longer and loaded him on the back of a ranger truck and continued the CPR, but nothing helped, he had been underwater for too long, almost forty minutes too long.
“What does this have to do with Revelation, Inspiration, and Hermeneutics,” you might ask? Well, at the base of it all, a correct understanding of this material is that crucial. It is between drowning in false ideologies—our false presuppositions—which, distort the reality of human existence, versus rising to life, knowing Christ, Jesus Christ, our Savior. As I spoke with a friend today, he said how we as Adventists have gotten the doctrines down to a Science, but have we even attempted to do the same with knowing Jesus. Have we attempted to recognize Jesus in our family, have we attempted to love Him with all of our being, and study His life as if our lives truly depended on it and not our classwork? The life of Jesus is transformational, leading to right orthopraxy, while the study of doctrines done correctly—hermeneutics—lead to correct orthodoxy, which is good and should be adhered to. Rather than getting into trouble by swinging the pendulum to the other side, we need to change the way we view these two, like Science and Theology. Continuously we must unify these two, and stop splitting them. We must make all our doctrine practical and salvific in terms of asking, “What does this teach me about Jesus?” and “How can this draw me closer to Jesus?” We are downing in our feuds with other religions, denominations, and ourselves, but we must seek strengthening our knowledge of the Savior, which is salvific. If our study on a doctrine does not lead us to a better knowledge of the Savior, it will only lead to legalism, whether conservative or liberal, and it will lead to death because it is without a Savior, the Savior. If our hermeneutics are not to this end, we are doomed, failed, and lost. If we didn’t know already, without Jesus we can’t make it to an everlasting life with God. Not one more Bible Study, or devotion, or class, or even the knowledge of our short coming in the light of Christ will help save us, if none of it is for the purpose of drawing you to know Him personally, and then share Him with a drowning world. First, you have to realize as I slowly am if you have not already, that it is I who am drowning, I don’t really know Him, I just know about Him. So, apply the right tools, and start studying the Savior, start studying all things if you haven’t already in light of the true Light. Or else you will realize that the light you are seeing is slowly fading as you view it through murky water as you look up into the sun, and you suddenly realize you’re under the water not above it.
This was more emotional thought than anything else, but I hope that there was something there to think about.
Response to Violeta’s comment on silent prayer (7/25/2010)
Thanks for encouraging me to think more on the matter of praying out loud instead of silently. I believe that both silent and spoken private prayers are appropriate and that it is good to practice both. We are told that Daniel cultivated a habit of silent prayer that kept him in communion with God throughout the day (That I May Know Him, p 247). I am also certain that Daniel’s prayer at his window was not silent (it certainly wasn’t private). I also have no doubt that God is able to make the contents of our silent prayers known to anyone else who needs to know them. I also believe that if when we pray we ask God to shut us in with him He will do that. I may be wrong, but I doubt that He wants us to be too concerned with whether or not others can hear our prayers. Most of all He just wants us to pray with Him as we would speak with a friend.
Response to Ryan’s Reflection 3 on Presuppositions (7/25/2010)
Thanks for your blog on this topic. I also enjoyed the discussion in class today following your presentation. I’d not even considered the idea of presuppositions at various levels as Dr Hanna shared with us and I find it useful. I somehow doubt that I can ever be fully aware of each of my presuppositions – but at least I can try to remain aware that I do have presuppositions and that these affect the way I look at things, and I need to be open to modifying them.
Filip, what an experience – we tend to not forget these scenes and they provide lots of food for thought. I appreciated your application to the danger of drowning in our feuds. That on its own is food for thought. Then there was the great application of drowning for lack of a true knowledge of Christ. I especially appreciated the reminder that we must always keep Christ at the centre, seeking in everything to gain a better understanding of Him. As I read I could hear a sermon coming from you!
Wow, when I was reading your reflection writing, I was just amazed by your insight on God's perspective on the law. I was asking question before that can God break the Law, and I now understand that it could be very rude question by my human reason because the Law is God's charactor, and I am here in a small planet, and asking this stupid question to my creator saying "can you not be a God?". I am thankful to your wonderful reflection, once again, thanks!
Reflection #4 First, I am thankful to Dr. Hanna that he showed me a lot of wide perspective on this subject. It could be too subjective, but I especially loved his lecture when he mentioned about objective and subjective issue. It is true that people who lives in 2010, can all us, including the Adventist, the common sense could be presupposed based on Post-modernism way of thinking. Whether it is objective or subjective, people don’t care if it is not related to their personal lives. Me either, I have that kind of mind too. And at the same time, I thought that my subjective mind was offended by the people or groups who claim themselves objective. Therefore, I did not like whatever, whoever claimed themselves objective. However, Dr. Hanna’s lecture just turns me over. I was making same mistake which I did not like. Not only a student, but as a Christian, I learned many things from Dr. Hanna’s lecture.
I have to say that I met wonderful people, everyone has kind smile, and they have very unique ideas and sincere attitude toward this subject, I was proud of myself that I am in this class.
The final reading I did was chapter 7 from Understanding Scripture, and chapter 9, what does the bible say by Dr. Hanna. I also taking another class about Ellen White, and we studied about what is going to happen if we don’t pray before we study and interpret Ellen white’s writing. We learned that our skepticism will be strengthened, and Satan will take over our mind, and we may not have correct interpretation. I think the most important thing before we read and understand the Scripture or any inspirational writings, our attitude on the subject and God is significant. It looks so simple, but when we study the historical – biblical approach also teaches same thing. We also talked about presupposition for a long time, we show that how powerful presupposition is when we approach to the scripture. We may not go and read the scripture without presuppositions. Then I want to ask this, how could we have presupposition? It could be answered many different ways, but I think it is the attitude toward God. To make it simple, do you want to argue with God? or do you want to know about God? Furthermore, our approach to the Scripture or theology seems like proving God and the scripture, but it is approach proving ourselves individually. I believe our hermeneutics and interpretation is like mirror, it will reflect my attitude to God. of course it is important to have skills to understand biblical languages, it is true that we need to have right skills to interpret the complex prophecy in Daniel and Revelation, but the conclusion me or you have will reflect God’s Character.
When I read these chapters, and reminding the lectures we had, I just feel like I am truly sinner, and I was the first one who doubt on His messages for me. I am glad I realize who and where I am, and I want thank God, professor and all of you to make me have better understanding of God.
Hey man! you know what? I was thinking before I wrote this, "I will just write something as soon as possible, because it is my last day of suumer"........ but I was wrong.. when I read chapters, when I wrote my reflection, and when I read yours, I feel like the Spirit is here in my room that encourage me. I heard that news what happened on last sunday, and I jusr realize how weak we are.. 26 year old man died? 26 years old man could be the strongest man among people, but he could not against current rip from the cosmos.. we are weaker than him, we are weaker than Satan...no I have to say we cannot compare ourselve to Satan because we are soooooooooooooooooo weak... satan knows bible better than us, satan knows us better than us... But We have Christ who promised us that he will send the Holy Spirit to make us strong!! I love this...
After I took this Class, the word presupposition flying around in my mind. I experienced when I worekd on my paper, how much presupposition make change my EXPECTATION for conclusion. Thank God that he made me humber enough to change the direction of my paper (well, I had to admit that I was stupid...^^;). I think we easily believe that we make (shape) our presupposition or influenced by our cultre, church, or SDA brainwash(?... but I believe that even that presupposition can be shaped by Holy Spitir. Jesus had to talk with guys who had full of presupposition but we saw what happaend!!
As you mentioned, we tend to put our God in our small box, which I want to call it presupposition...I don;t know it is right or not. I would call wrong presupposition as legalism.
I was thinking that only behavior could be catagorized legalism, but our mind and attitude toward God could be also legalistic.
Thanks for sharing your reflection! and God Bless!
Reflection # 4.1 Today I need to admit that my post in regard to DNA of gospel as the “required minimum” for salvation was incomplete and mistaken. Doing my research for Dr. Moon’s class I discovered a paragraph in Christ’s Object Lessons that has proved Dr. Hanna’s position on this issue. And Owen was absolutely right, saying that “we need to be very careful in limiting who God might save based on a simplified reading of one or two texts.” So, here is the quote: “Wherever there is an impulse of love and sympathy, wherever the heart reaches out to bless and uplift others, there is revealed the working of God’s Holy Spirit. In the depths of heathenism, men who have had no knowledge of the written law of God, who have never even heard the name of Christ, have been kind to His servants, protecting them at the risk of their own lives. Their acts show the working of a divine power. The Holy Spirit has implanted the grace of Christ in the heart of the savage, quickening his sympathies contrary to his nature, contrary to his education. The ‘Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world’ (John 1:9), is shining in his soul; and this light, if heeded, will guide his feet to the kingdom of God.” COL P.385 It’s a very powerful message and at the same time a humbling one, because it presents salvation as an objective reality, independent from our evangelistic efforts.
I'm glad you found that quote - I was aware of something along these lines but couldn't locate it the other day. It is encouraging to know and it helps paint the picture of a God who is just and fair and considers the motives of our hearts. I mentioned C. S. Lewis' view in an earlier comment (I wish I had my audio version of The Last Battle with me as it would have been fun to share that section). I think that Lewis and Ellen White would agree quite closely on this concept. Your last comment does raise one question though; what is the rationale for us doing any evangelism if salvation is independent of it? I actually believe that there are some very good reasons, but perhaps that is for another discussion.
This would have to be the first time that I remember coming to the end of a class and wished that it could continue. These last four weeks together have flown. I’ve really appreciated the ways in which Dr Hanna has lead us towards a more holistic picture of Revelation, Inspiration and Hermeneutics, and I’ve enjoyed our interaction as a class. There are a few important lessons that I want to keep with me following this class: 1. I want at all times to come to the reading of the Scriptures with an attitude of prayer and humility. It amazes me when I consider that at times I have presumed to imagine that I can reach a complete explanation of certain things in Scripture. The reality is I can only catch glimpses and these come to me by His grace, His condescension. What a privilege it is to even begin to understand Him. 2. I need to be aware that I have presuppositions, including ones I probably won’t be able to identify. Each time I read I want to at least acknowledge that they exist and try to see what colour they may be putting on the pictures of Scripture. 3. I want to remember that simplistic “proof text” answers can actually be a hindrance to seeing the real message in Scripture. They draw me quickly to a conclusion, which though it may be right, is probably only a part of the picture – and possibly even a peripheral part. The result is that I close the Scripture and walk away when there is still so much more to discover. 4. When reading Scripture I want to remember the words of Jesus in John 5:39,40: “You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life: And these are they which testify of me. But you would not come to me that you might have life.” If I’m looking for anything in Scripture that does not in some way uplift Christ and help me to understand Him better, perhaps I’m looking for something that is not there. I want to maintain a Christ-centred approach to Bible study. 5. I also want to be very careful in the way I share my thoughts and understandings on topics. I have already experienced how a few words that could have been better chosen have drawn others into disagreeing with me and missing the real message that I was trying to share. It is quite a responsibility that we carry in this area. I’m reminded of the words of Jesus; “be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.” I guess we need to develop a diplomatic spirit underpinned by a character of integrity. It seems like a short list but I suspect I’ll have my work cut out implementing it.
Dr Hanna presented some thoughts in class today on Revelation 17. I don’t recall hearing any presentation or reading anything on this chapter before. I have heard some preachers who have focussed on the traditional and simple interpretations and haven’t been impressed with the way the present their deductions. Today a new spark of interest in Revelation was ignited for me. I was reminded of how the book is introduced as the Revelation of Jesus but so often we tend to make it into the Revelation of the fact that we have to avoid Sunday worship. How much have we lost by focussing persistently on details like this? While I don’t deny this particular application I’m sure that over-fixating on it stops us from seeing the larger picture of Christ’s ultimate victory over a devil who consistently, throughout history, infiltrates wherever he can.
As I work toward finishing my research assignment on the role of angels in hermeneutics I am reminded of the fact that what I’m looking at is really a mystery, something I should not expect to explain in any conclusive way. Jesus Himself said that the Holy Spirit acts in ways we can’t explain, like the wind. And as the angels are His messengers, and unfallen creations, I’m doubtful that I’ll be able to understand much of how they work on His behalf. But I take courage in the knowledge that they do work on God’s behalf to accomplish the great purpose of God – our salvation. What a wonderful God we serve who withholds no resource in His pursuit of us.
This I believe is one of the more important parts that we must come to understand about presuppositions. Understanding that we cannot come to hermeneutics with a blank slate what are we supposed to do? If our presuppositions are such that we cannot get rid of them how are we to approach scripture and other questions that we have? One quote I came across is as follows- “We must know ourselves . . .. Each of us approaches Scripture with his own, or her own presuppositions. These presuppositions are part of our worldview, part of our personal theology. In the first in- stance they relate to the way we regard Scripture. Does it consist of infallible propositions? Is it the record of certain acts of God? Is it an inspired record? Is there revelation outside Scripture? Our views here will dictate how we handle the text. Our minds are not empty Understanding and Applying the Bible when we read or listen to Scripture; what we hear is already partly predetermined by what is already in them; our presuppositions shape what we understand. It is not necessary to argue here for any one particular set of presuppositions, but to insist that we become aware of our own so that when we understand and interpret we know how we are being influenced by them. It is also important that we see that our presuppositions are consistent, that we do not operate with one set at one time and with another at another.”
This quote asks many questions that I have as well and will be good to reflect on in the future. This quote is also power packed with what I have discussed previously and finishes with the answer to our question about what we are to do with our presuppositions. This focus brought up in this previous quote is focused on being aware of our presuppositions. This understanding and realization that we have presuppositions helps us come to any situation and thought more open-minded than we would be if we were unaware of our own presupposition. In comparing our own self-understanding with our reading of scripture. This self-understanding will allow us to be more wholistic thinkers as we understand ourselves and allow the word of God to change and do its work on our presuppositions and us.
I want to copy down these thoughts that you have here. They are ones that I want to apply to my life as well. Thank you for writing them down. I really relate to your thoughts as we come to scripture and in relation to how we talk to others about what we believe and hold as true. Always being humble and as far as possible knowing what we are presupposed in our thinking.
One thing that I would add off the top of my head to that list is a striving not to be legalistic in how we go about our whole lives. I have felt this in my life and through this class my eyes have been opened a little more. Every new day I hope we all seek to know more from the one who is so willing to fill us with his knowledge.
I think you are right! Relationships are so important and when we know someone cares about our lives... things will change. I also agree with you that our attitude when we come to scripture or studying about God will affect our/Gods ability for us to understand. I thank you for your honest and open thoughts and perspective on what you have been studying. Reflecting the Character of God is truly where we ought to be striving. Yes we need more of Him!
Hermeneutics does not necessarily imply all the details in the text. Very often when reading scripture, we have the expectation that it will tell everything we need to know. But what I'm discovering is that not every "i" is dotted and not every "t" is crossed but that doesn't mean the message changes.
Sometimes, we're looking for a backdoor or an excuse to live our lives without any accountability and use the nuances often found in Scripture as our crutch. The bible is definitely clear on some issues and others are understood though ambiguous. But what about the "unknowns"? Is it safe to say that God doesn't have an opinion on certain matters or that He simply desires that we'll allow the Holy Spirit to influence our reasoning and come to terms that certain things are a given whether or not they're specifically mentioned?
I work with youth and often they're looking for an exact answer to this or that and truly feel that the Bible doesn't speak to their time. But that's not true! The bible speaks in every age, but I believe how we listen makes a world of difference in our interpretation of what is said. Now, I'm not saying that we need not review the historical background for relevance, but how do we repackage the same underlying message within a different context?
In doing my research, the premise of my paper was to identify methods of approaching hermeneutics from different cultural perspectives. But what I realized in hindsight is that culture transcends ethnicity. Culture is a state of mind and state of being (i.e. postmodernism). So when we consider our current state of affairs, we can't fall short of reaching people where they are. As I consider all that is involved in biblical hermeneutics, I conclude that without the help of the Holy Spirit, we can understand nothing and can are in danger of leading people in the wrong direction.
I really appreciated the discussion on Dr. Hanna's article "Exploring biblical headship tradition and culture". It's a hot topic for most churches communities and while we've pushed every kind of button, we have failed to come to a proper hermeneutical understanding of Paul's writings. And for this reason, many women have suffered under the guise of the word "submission" because certain men have misquoted and misrepresented the Scriptures.
This is a serious matter in many circles and must needs be addressed with the proper context in mind. The problem with the Corinthians was that they were being legalistic with the communication they received from Paul in his previous visit. They were misunderstanding his statements and Paul returned to address them.
Christian headship tradition involves a sharing of authority. Although sin has caused a rift in the relationship between man and woman and has compromised the original plan of God re: an egalitarian rule and partnership of husband and wife, the Christian husband will recognize his God-given responsibility to respect his wife and note that she has the authority to exercise her own authority in Christ.
Does this mean that the Christian women subjects herself to every man in her life? No! She is subject to her husband with the understanding that while he represents Christ to her in that He is lord over his life, Christ can have a direct relationship with a woman without a man. Woman can therefore submit to the headship of Christ without have the mediation of man.
Paul supports an egalitarian view of authority shared in the marriage relationship (see 1 Corinthians 7:4-5). Neither should attempt to rule over the other.
Let's stop pulling the gender card and read the text as it should be read and allow the Holy Spirit to guide us in our thinking and interpretation of these passages without the prejudices of our own agendas.
On another note, I must say that this class has afforded the opportunity of grappling with some serious things. And as I look to my future in ministry, it's becoming clearer my need for deeper study not simply for study sake but to experience a daily encounter with God who reveals Himself through His word. The word is spirit and life and all who will eat will never hunger again. Make my hungry, Lord!
In reading the chapter on "Ellen G. White and Hermeneutics" (Understanding Scripture), we can conclude that the same principles by which we approach the Scriptures is the same by which we need to approach her writings. We need to consider time, place, and circumstance of her writings in light of the final authority of the Scriptures.
Many will take Sr. White as the last word and will "burn you at the stake" if it appears that you are not supportive of her work, but in reality, I don't believe that she ever intended her work to be viewed in such light. While she had much to say on various issues/topics, and served as a conduit to communicate some very important messages for her time and for the future, if we fail to exalt the Scriptures taking only her word for it, we do ourselves a disservice and her writings are frequently misused.
Just like the Scriputures command us to study the word "line upon line, precept upon precept", we need to approach Sr. White with the same attitude. Without a proper hermeneutical principle in place, what would have been a blessing to the church at large, only becomes a source of contention and strife.
In the same manner that we pray to begin our daily reading of the Word and ask for enlightenment in our study, we too, should offer a word of prayer when reading Sr. White's work understanding that she was a human being subject to mistakes and defiency.
At one point in our history, we were known as the "people of the book". What will it take for us to regain that title versus the "people of EGW"? Food for thought.
I agree with your sentiments. I too, have enjoyed this class tremendously wished we didn't have to conclude. Nevertheless, I believe each of us have gleaned a bundle to munch on and as a result will be the better for it. Our understanding has been enriched and our passion has been ignited to search deeper the things of God.
As we journey along, we can only pray and hope that our experience here would have developed ministers who indeed are prepared to rightly divide the word of truth and be sensitive to the work of the Holy Spirit as He uses us to impart to others.
In my last reflection paper/blog I wanted to first talk about the section in The Cosmic Christ of Scripture entitled “The Mind of Christ”. In this section the content of our minds is discussed. This is a subject that I have given much thought towards. There are so many different mindsets in our world. Everyone thinks differently but some of us share some common views where as others do not. Why is this? Why do some people think only of themselves? Why is it that the most important thing in the world for most people has something to do with themselves? We all perceive the world differently. In some cases people view the world as every man or woman for themselves. However as I read this section I noticed that our mind-sets come from God. They are a result of God’s gifts of wisdom and spiritual perception. This means that the backwards model that most of the world operates on is due to a lack of God’s wisdom and gifts in their lives. Now that I have read and written it down, it seems so simple, but I have spent a lot of time wondering why some people can’t see what this world really is. The answer is incredibly clear Jesus makes the difference. He is the reason we are able to understand how awful this world really is. It is His presence in our lives that shapes our understanding of the world around us.
The next thing I wanted to talk about was something that hit me while reading out of Understand Scripture. As I was reading about the Authority of Jesus I can across this text “He did not come to do away with the Scriptures but to fulfill, so confirming their authority” Matt 5:17-19. This brought back to mind our discussion on miracles. This text is one of many more things I have found since that helps me to believe more strongly that God does not break His own laws when He performs a miracle. Jesus did not come to this world to do away with scriptures but to fulfill, just like He does not want to destroy His law but rather work within it. Why would our God break something He spent so much time working on to make perfect?
Lastly I wanted to talk about the discussion we had in class about Sabbath School. I have always wondered why we don’t put more stock into Sabbath School. It is the perfect opportunity to have small group discussions or one on one talks with people. It is in the classroom that you can break down the materials and have a more critical understanding. One of the things that make a classroom special is that it allows for a deeper level of engagement. I’ll admit that I am biased for the classroom. I have my undergrad in Education but if most of the church can understand the importance of the regular classroom why not the Sabbath School classroom? We are missing out on a huge venue for growth in out church. This is one area that I intend to develop and work over time.
One more thing, I would also like to say thank you to Dr. Hanna for teaching an incredibly interesting and challenging classes. Also thank you to everyone else in the classroom as well, I really enjoyed learning from everyone in the class. It was interesting to see how different personalities and backgrounds can shape how a person interprets things. The discussions we had were very insightful on manly levels and I am sure all that what I have learned from everyone will be put to good use. Thanks again…
I agree with your view on E. G. Whites writings. I don't see her a tyrant that wanted to judge everyone. I think that some people that go around quoting her constantly give her a bad reputation. If you read her writings I think you will discover that she only want to point people towards Jesus. Her endeavors were positive over all.
I really like your first point. This class has forced me to reconsider Scripture all together. I think I am starting to see the Bible less in terms of "complete explanation". Our God is too big to completely understand. We will be spending our entire lives... the rest of eternity discovering God.
Reflection#3 The Divine Mission for Israel In the of UNDERSTANDING SCRIPTURE,God said to Abraham "I will make you a great nation, I will bless you and make your name great.' By these statement, God wanted to remain the Israelites their responsibility among other nations. Whether or not God wanted the Israelites to be active missionaries makes a little impact on my responsibilities and the way I live my life. However, when I talk with non believers I anticipate more confidence in explaining the ministry of the Oltestament. In this way mission is very important.When I consider Naaman and Jonah, I really appreciate the attention given to them.Their lives seem to prove the heart of God. I am sure Iwill never fully understand God, but my mission is to justify what I know from God. The God that promise me to make me a great servant among the others.
You know I really like the quote you shared. I hammers down what Dr. Hanna has said, begin by admitting your presups and then continue your learning with the knowledge of where your conclusion might have originated from.
The quote also brought our the point of being consistent with your presuppositions. Yet, in this society it is very difficult for us young people to be consistent with our thinking. We like taking a little bit from everyone and making it fit together. In my ethics class, our teacher was really frustrated with this because in different situations kids act differently, abandoning their previously established code of conduct. This is a serious issue. We really need to be consistent, otherwise we will become quite relativistic.
To Viola and Owen on Limiting God's ability to minister: I have struggled with the idea of Jesus saving those who have never heard the name of Christ. I am troubled with text like John 3.16 and how it clearly outlines salvation based solely on JESUS, and nothing else. So, without Jesus we are lost! Yet, as I have read in Romans 2.14-15, God will save those who live by the Law, and have never heard of the Law. People might know of Christ's way and his gift for them, without ever knowing of Him. This is something I am still working through, but man it sure is amazing realizing that God works in ways that are beyond us, and we have no right to limit the works of God.
Blog 4: The Model of interpretation and Watching what you say
I have to say that I am so glad that we went over the chapter by Ekkahardt Muller in class. I really wanted to know what is the correct way to interpret the Scriptures, how can it be done? This is something I want to share with my church one day. Anybody can interpret the Scriptures when done within the boundaries. People are afraid or simply confused when it comes to how one should interpret the Bible. Our fears and those of our members cause us to fall in to the rut of waiting for the pastor of theologian to talk with us, when all the tools are at our fingertips and we just have to study and apply. We have become lazy when it comes to studying the Scripture, and when the meaning doesn’t come out immediately we get lazy to search the Scriptures and rather wait. That’s too bad. We are also conduits of the Holy Spirit and we too can bless others if we are diligent students of God’s Word. I read a quote from Acts of Apostles p. 327 “Faithfulness in preaching the word, united with a pure, consistent life, can alone make the efforts of ministers acceptable to God and profitable to souls.” We have the faithful in preaching the word, but without diligent Study of the Word, we won’t have anything of significance to share with God’s people.
I have to agree with Owen’s comment about being more careful about what we say. I found myself in a discussion about music, and a friend said a certain type of Christian music is wrong. I told them to be careful how they say that because God will still work on peoples lives in spire of how my friend feels about that genre of Christian music. I shared how God works in more mysterious ways then we think. As I was sharing this I found myself talking to “who I used to be.” I have always limited God and now I was talking to someone who also feels that way. I think that my newfound freedom is good, but where is the limit? And, how should I speak about this? I think my comments were quite “radical” for the group I was speaking with. Many people will take what we say and misconstrue what we say or misunderstand. We must be much more careful.
Thanks class, and thanks Dr. Hanna for the blessing of sharing this mindshifting/altering month together.
The four Gospels (reflection #4) It was important for me to read in the book of Understanding Scripture different presentations of Jesus Christ.One question is asked about the Gospel, why are there four Gospels? I think there are four Gospels because each one of them has its own concern.Each one talk about the life of Jesus,but not the same way.For example, one talk about light, others about love.I can say that the Gospel for John is love. In the other hand Mathew, Mark and Luke describe Jesus Christ's life as the light. They said everything that He made manifest in the light. Therefore, it is important to mention that Matthew presents Jesus as a king, Mark as servant, Luke as Priest before God and John as deity. Those four aspects are the main presentation of Jesus Christ on the earth. (REFLECTION # 4)
Thank you for sharing your reflection on the reading. It is so true what you said about the mind-set of Christ: “…our mind-sets come from God. They are a result of God’s gifts of wisdom and spiritual perception. This means that the backwards model that most of the world operates on is due to a lack of God’s wisdom and gifts in their lives. “…Why some people can’t see what this world really is. - …Jesus makes the difference.” When I thought about it I realized that it is impossible to understand how bad something is unless I can compare it with something better. And “something better” in this case is the promises of God, revealed in Christ by the Holy Spirit. When I think about mind-set of Christ I see the “abundance” mentality. For example: “Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come from God and was going to God, rose from supper and laid aside His garments, took a towel and girded Himself.” John 13:3,4 Or: “ Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.”
Jesus knew something that made him generous to give and willing to serve. I found out that it is a torture for me to serve without “knowing,” who am I in Christ. Paul asked God to give us the Spirit of wisdom and revelation. “So”, - he explained, “that you might grow in your knowledge of God. I pray that your hearts will be flooded with light so that you can understand the wonderful future he has promised to those he called. I want you to realize what a rich and glorious inheritance he has given to his people. I pray that you will begin to understand the incredible greatness of his power for us who believe him.” Eph 1:17-19 I wish I’d be able more clearly understand what does it mean to have the authority to be a child of God.
Reflection # 4.2 One of the most challenging and exiting “revelations” of the last days of the class for me happened to be the “conversational” method of Revelation/Inspiration. Not everything that God said is what he exactly meant. I recognize the high level of vulnerability of this method. However, the correct, Spirit-guided consideration of it and its skilful application in our hermeneutics – it’s a breakthrough in understanding of some difficult “paradoxes” of Scripture. Keeping in mind the examples of Moses and Abraham we examined in our class, I now I can identify this method as it was employed by E.G. White’ in her hermeneutics of Scripture. One of the most misunderstood concepts in our church: relationship between the covenant of grace and the Old Covenant. Sorry for such a long quotation, but I just love E.G. White’s interpretation of this issue. You have to know God quite well to make such interpretation of the Exodus story and the Sinai Covenant.
“Why was another covenant formed at Sinai? In their bondage the people had to a great extent lost the knowledge of God and of the principles of the Abrahamic covenant. In delivering them from Egypt, God sought to reveal to them His power and His mercy, that they might be led to love and trust Him. …He had bound them to Himself as their deliverer from temporal bondage. But there was a still greater truth to be impressed upon their minds. Living in the midst of idolatry and corruption, they had no true conception of the holiness of God, of the exceeding sinfulness of their own hearts, their utter inability, in themselves, to render obedience to God's law, and their need of a Saviour. All this they must be taught. God brought them to Sinai; He manifested His glory; He gave them His law, with the promise of great blessings on condition of obedience: "If ye will obey My voice indeed, and keep My covenant, then . . . ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation." Exodus 19:5, 6. The people did not realize the sinfulness of their own hearts, and that without Christ it was impossible for them to keep God's law; and they readily entered into covenant with God. Feeling that they were able to establish their own righteousness, they declared, "All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient." Exodus 24:7. They had witnessed the proclamation of the law in awful majesty, and had trembled with terror before the mount; and yet only a few weeks passed before they broke their covenant with God, and bowed down to worship a graven image. They could not hope for the favor of God through a covenant, which they had broken; and now, seeing their sinfulness and their need of pardon, they were brought to feel their need of the Saviour revealed in the Abrahamic covenant and shadowed forth in the sacrificial offerings. Now by faith and love they were bound to God as their deliverer from the bondage of sin. Now they were prepared to appreciate the blessings of the new covenant. {PP 371.4}
I really want to learn the principles of hermeneutics, which would help me to see God’s intentions and His grace in the most confusing and harsh passages of the Bible.
RESPONSE TO viola I really appreciate your reflection about the cosmos. You touch a point which could raise a lot of questions. You say, "Without the Holy Spirit( Him)no cosmos, neither church, nor Scripture, and not even Christ would be possible." I consider this statement as a great theological debate because no one knows really if it would be impossible without Him. Maybe God would choose another option to fulfill the Holy Spirit position. I do not say it is not real, but some times there are some things which go far upon our comprehension.This is a very fascinating point because it touch my interest.
Response to Jcoke I agree with you when you ask yourself :Why some people think differently for themselves? I think this is the human daily behavior. I think this is the diversity in God's creation. He creates everyone unique, but with capacity to unite in one person, Jesus Christ.
Paul Muniz 3rd Blog: A Hermeneutical Charge!
said...
I embrace the statement by Dr. F. Canale, in chapter 4. Where he calls Adventists to move beyond apologetics and to a “more constructive theology of inspiration”. It seems to me that too often all Christians spend too much time in the art of apologetics to an extent that often we forget the charge of the Great Commission. As a simple definition, if such could be construed, the Pocket Dictionary of Theological Terms says, “apologetics is the formal defense of the Christian faith”. The defensive unfolding of apologetics, however, focuses regularly on “rational argumentation, empirical evidence, fulfillment of prophecy, church authority, or mystical experience” all in an effort to produce proof of God’s existence, deity of Christ, and the clout of scripture. This is indeed what frequently occurs. However, when we take a good look at Jesus’ life I do not see him spending an enormous amount of time trying to prove to the world that He is the “Son of Man”. While He did speak about such and preformed many miracles we know that many did not believe, including those who believed in the coming of the Messiah. So, are we spending too much time trying to prove to the world that a tangible and intangible God is real, when even those who believed that Jesus was to come didn’t believe when He did? I believe that we are. Please note that I am saying that we are spending too much time, but, I am not saying that we should not employ apologetics at all. I know all too well that many people, who are interested in Christianity, want to see proof. What I do embrace, and believe is proper, is the need to have a balanced method of hermeneutics. As Adventist it would do us well to move in the direction that Canale is suggesting. The fact that we have no creed, and that the Bible is our only means of such, does lend itself to an interpretation and understanding that we have of a sense of openness regarding the expansion our biblical methodologies. If I understand Canale he is not suggestion that we abandoned apologetics, but minimized its usage. He is pushing the idea of inspiration, which he considers to be “mainly a linguistic” aspect. He points out that “a constructive, pioneering task in systematic theology” would be a good place to start. What he further declares, in the same chapter, is something that I seldom hear within the Adventist circles. He says that we would “benefit from analyzing the way other interpretations have been conceived”. I know that many SDA’s, upon reading such, would begin to pass judgment and possibly conclude that he is suggesting that we embrace the ideas and or interpretations of others, but such is far from what he is declaring. His point seems to be that we (SDA’s) stand to gain further insights by considering the negative and positive of other interpretations. I believe that this is a wholesome approach, which moves towards holism. To move contrary to a holistic prespective, I opine, is incunabulum of a dogmatic mindset. As people of “The Book”, is it proper to embrace a closed minded attitude and not move to further growth? To hold unto to such is to really forget the changes that our denomination underwent throughout the years. When we take a close look at the life of E. G. White we see that she under went change. Even when there were matters that she felt very strong about she embrace and welcomed change. Such is also the case with the Creator who entered into an agreement with Abraham about destroying Sodom and Gomorrah. God was willing to change what he was going to carry out. Lastly, is not the Christian life one of growth and change? If such is the case in all three instances than certainly as a denomination we should “move beyond apologetics concerns into the task of developing a more constructive theology of inspiration”. Change that moves one to a closer walk with the Lord is positive and not negative. I therefore encourage us all to let the Holy Spirit lead us as we explore a “constructive theology of inspiration”. And in doing such, may God receive all the honor and glory.
Violeta, I appreciate your thought provoking blogs and comments in class. I commend you for being so open in your blog on the DNA of gospel. Thanks for publicly modeling such an attitude of change. May I be as open. If it were not for the love of God all of us would be doomed. Praise His name!
Johnathan Coker in your first reflection, where you linked the decline of worship with "the straying from sola scriptura", was at first something a bit confusing for me. However, as I read the rest of your blog the point became clearer. And I believe that there is a connection between God's word and our worship. I would add, however, that even without His word there are many people who praise His name because of His revelation through nature. In this there is life and worship.
Paul Muniz 4th Blog "A Contextualization Thought"
said...
Response to Sehyun Sean Lee 4th reflection. I am glad that you had a positive experience in this class. It is amazing to learn new things about God's word and how to consider such in a different way. May the Hoy Spirit continue to lead you.
Thanks for your word that speak about having a clear and open mind permitting the Holy Spirit to give us more light regarding God's message. I too believe that we need to be opened minded. I would just added that we first need to be filled with the Holy Spirit to grasp additional light. We certainly need to be led by God's spirit. Blessings.
Wilfred Nyambaka said.. In my keen review of the book understanding of the Scripture and the Cosmic Christ of the Scriture,i have to appreciate the orderly was how our Adventist Church base its interpreeetation of the scripture. The interpretation of the Bible according to the Seventh Day Adventist is very unique. This is because it is based on the four major hermeneutical interpretations principles. This principle forms the beliefs that make the SDA beliefs. First and foremost, the Seventh Day Adventist interprets the bible from the period of the Post-Exilic Jews. At time the Jews moved increasingly toward a more rigid obedience of the law and Sabbath as defined by the tradition. For this reason, the Christian church was born within the context of Rabbinical Judaism and expanded itself later into the realms of Hellenistic Judaism in the Roman persecution. Secondly, the Adventist church bases their biblical interpretation from the time of the Ancient and Medieval church fathers. This includes people like Origen, Iraneaus Augustine and others who live in their time. This is because this is the very people who were maintained the biblical interpretation of the Bibles after the apostolic fathers. They employed the allegorical method of interpretation of the Bible, and tradition above the scripture. Thus the Medieval church claimed non-biblical teaching and made them the same level with the scripture. Despite all this, God restored the position of the Bible in the time of the Post-Reformation period. Martin Luther, being the hero of it all, he demanded that the tradition and the bible be separated as it was used in the Catholic interpretation. Hegemony was broken and the Bible was allowed again to speak directly to the believer. This was done through the principle of SOLA SCRIPTURE -the scripture exclusiveness, and TOTA SCRIPTURE- the totality of the scripture. In the 18th century, strong debates came up by the Bible critics, in this time natural science begun to erode the nomadic authority of the scripture. In the late 18th century, there was a widespread of interest of the interpretation of the Bible and Miller came up basing his interpretation in SALA AND TOTA SALA SCRIPTURA.This was in the prophecy of Daniel 11 about the 2300 days of the sanctuary. From this period the early Adventist believers’ church was born. They also based their interpretation in the same way Miller did of ”sola and tota scriptura” This three principles of interpretation brings us to the great summary of biblical interpretation: Tota Scriptura-all scripture, sola sriptura-scripture alone and prima scriptura-scripture first. It’s here where Sis. White says ”the bilbe is the greater light” and is the standard measure for all doctrines.
The interpretation of the Bible according to the Seventh Day Adventist is very unique. This is because it is based on the four major hermeneutical interpretations principles. This principle forms the beliefs that make the SDA beliefs. First and foremost, the Seventh Day Adventist interprets the bible from the period of the Post-Exilic Jews. At time the Jews moved increasingly toward a more rigid obedience of the law and Sabbath as defined by the tradition. For this reason, the Christian church was born within the context of Rabbinical Judaism and expanded itself later into the realms of Hellenistic Judaism in the Roman persecution. Secondly, the Adventist church bases their biblical interpretation from the time of the Ancient and Medieval church fathers. This includes people like Origen, Iraneaus Augustine and others who live in their time. This is because this is the very people who were maintained the biblical interpretation of the Bibles after the apostolic fathers. They employed the allegorical method of interpretation of the Bible, and tradition above the scripture. Thus the Medieval church claimed non-biblical teaching and made them the same level with the scripture. Despite all this, God restored the position of the Bible in the time of the Post-Reformation period. Martin Luther, being the hero of it all, he demanded that the tradition and the bible be separated as it was used in the Catholic interpretation. Hegemony was broken and the Bible was allowed again to speak directly to the believer. This was done through the principle of SOLA SCRIPTURE -the scripture exclusiveness, and TOTA SCRIPTURE- the totality of the scripture. In the 18th century, strong debates came up by the Bible critics, in this time natural science begun to erode the nomadic authority of the scripture. In the late 18th century, there was a widespread of interest of the interpretation of the Bible and Miller came up basing his interpretation in SALA AND TOTA SALA SCRIPTURA.This was in the prophecy of Daniel 11 about the 2300 days of the sanctuary. From this period the early Adventist believers’ church was born. They also based their interpretation in the same way Miller did of ”sola and tota scriptura” This three principles of interpretation brings us to the great summary of biblical interpretation: Tota Scriptura-all scripture, sola sriptura-scripture alone and prima scriptura-scripture first. It’s here where Sis. White says ”the bilbe is the greater light” and is the standard measure for all doctrines.
The interpretation of the Bible according to the Seventh Day Adventist is very unique. This is because it is based on the four major hermeneutical interpretations principles. This principle forms the beliefs that make the SDA beliefs. First and foremost, the Seventh Day Adventist interprets the bible from the period of the Post-Exilic Jews. At time the Jews moved increasingly toward a more rigid obedience of the law and Sabbath as defined by the tradition. For this reason, the Christian church was born within the context of Rabbinical Judaism and expanded itself later into the realms of Hellenistic Judaism in the Roman persecution. Secondly, the Adventist church bases their biblical interpretation from the time of the Ancient and Medieval church fathers. This includes people like Origen, Iraneaus Augustine and others who live in their time. This is because this is the very people who were maintained the biblical interpretation of the Bibles after the apostolic fathers. They employed the allegorical method of interpretation of the Bible, and tradition above the scripture. Thus the Medieval church claimed non-biblical teaching and made them the same level with the scripture. Despite all this, God restored the position of the Bible in the time of the Post-Reformation period. Martin Luther, being the hero of it all, he demanded that the tradition and the bible be separated as it was used in the Catholic interpretation. Hegemony was broken and the Bible was allowed again to speak directly to the believer. This was done through the principle of SOLA SCRIPTURE -the scripture exclusiveness, and TOTA SCRIPTURE- the totality of the scripture. In the 18th century, strong debates came up by the Bible critics, in this time natural science begun to erode the nomadic authority of the scripture. In the late 18th century, there was a widespread of interest of the interpretation of the Bible and Miller came up basing his interpretation in SALA AND TOTA SALA SCRIPTURA.This was in the prophecy of Daniel 11 about the 2300 days of the sanctuary. From this period the early Adventist believers’ church was born. They also based their interpretation in the same way Miller did of ”sola and tota scriptura” This three principles of interpretation brings us to the great summary of biblical interpretation: Tota Scriptura-all scripture, sola sriptura-scripture alone and prima scriptura-scripture first. It’s here where Sis. White says ”the bilbe is the greater light” and is the standard measure for all doctrines.
on Paul Muniz comment, I love your comment.You have said that most denomination come to interpret the Bible with thei preconcived ideas,but they dont want the Bibleto teach them but they want to fashon the Bible to fit their understanding.Surely we need to allow the Bible to speak of its own for us in doctrine and by precept..This si a great truth.Sola Scriptura.
30th Sept 2010 CHAPTER 2: FAITH, REASON AND HE HOLY SPIRIT IN HERMENEUTICS In the study of this second chapter of the book “Understanding the Scriptures”, we are considering one important topic. This topic is reason. Man is endowed with the gift of reason. This gift that man has been given by God can be used –positively in the process of biblical hermeneutics. Although the human mind is fallen, but it can influenced by the Holy Spirit to make proper interpretation of the scriptures. In this chapter I have learnt that faith is and should be the basis of all human reason .Though these elements seems to conflict each other however, most of the times it depends on their application. Despite all, faith should be elevated above the human reason because we know that human reason is based on human judgment but faith is based on God. As we all know human mind was taken captive by the devil in the beginning and in every time of human history, he has been using the human mind in order to influence the way people think. So he uses the influence of his evil angles to influence the wrong use of the scriptures or make the people to misunderstand the scripture. In this book of “Understanding the Scripture”, the author explains how Paul warned the believers that the “the deceitful spirits are at work in heavenly places…principalities of powers of darkness in the heavenly places”1 Tim.3-4. On another instance Paul calls them spiritual forces, Eph 6:12, while in the letter to the Corinthians he calls Satan “blinding the minds of men”2Cor.4:3-4. On the other hand, the bible tells us that the work of the righteous angels is coming to help the believers to understand the scriptures. A good example is in the case of Daniel (Dan 8:16).The angel was sent to make him understand the hard vision. In the New Testament, we are told the angel was send to the tomb to help the Mary who was grieving over the absence of the body of Jesus at the tomb.( Luke 24:6-7.) Another important aspect of interpreting the Bible is by the help of the Holy Spirit. We all know that the Bible was written by the influence of the Holy Spirit. How much more is he needed in the process of interpretation! When men and women meet to study the word of God, they should have to ask for the guidance of the Holy Spirit who led the prophet and men to write the writings of the Bible. It is important that in every step of hermeneutics bible interpretation, the Holy Spirit be invited for guidance. When Jesus was going to heaven, he told the disciples that He would send the “Helper, the Holy Spirit “to make them understand all things of the scriptures. Prophet Zachariah said also that it is the Holy Spirit’s office to direct this search and reward it ”not by Power or by the mighty, but by the power of the Holy Spirit “Zach 4:6. This shows that the human process of comparison of scripture should be guided by the Holy Spirit. I wish to conclude by underscoring the one of the great principle of bible and scripture authority in the book of “Cosmic Christ of the Scripture”. The author says that the scripture authority in relation to Christian faith. Here the authors say that the scriptures guide the Christian in matters of knowledge. This shows that scripture is the rule of faith and practice. Here the author denotes that the scripture is the guide to the extra-biblical knowledge of the world. The author strongly says that the reason why we have many disagreements among the Christians faith, is based on how we are going to do and practice theology while we holding Biblical authority.
30th Sept 2010 CHAPTER 2: FAITH, REASON AND HE HOLY SPIRIT IN HERMENEUTICS In the study of this second chapter of the book “Understanding the Scriptures”, we are considering one important topic. This topic is reason. Man is endowed with the gift of reason. This gift that man has been given by God can be used –positively in the process of biblical hermeneutics. Although the human mind is fallen, but it can influenced by the Holy Spirit to make proper interpretation of the scriptures. In this chapter I have learnt that faith is and should be the basis of all human reason .Though these elements seems to conflict each other however, most of the times it depends on their application. Despite all, faith should be elevated above the human reason because we know that human reason is based on human judgment but faith is based on God. As we all know human mind was taken captive by the devil in the beginning and in every time of human history, he has been using the human mind in order to influence the way people think. So he uses the influence of his evil angles to influence the wrong use of the scriptures or make the people to misunderstand the scripture. In this book of “Understanding the Scripture”, the author explains how Paul warned the believers that the “the deceitful spirits are at work in heavenly places…principalities of powers of darkness in the heavenly places”1 Tim.3-4. On another instance Paul calls them spiritual forces, Eph 6:12, while in the letter to the Corinthians he calls Satan “blinding the minds of men”2Cor.4:3-4. On the other hand, the bible tells us that the work of the righteous angels is coming to help the believers to understand the scriptures. A good example is in the case of Daniel (Dan 8:16).The angel was sent to make him understand the hard vision. In the New Testament, we are told the angel was send to the tomb to help the Mary who was grieving over the absence of the body of Jesus at the tomb.( Luke 24:6-7.) Another important aspect of interpreting the Bible is by the help of the Holy Spirit. We all know that the Bible was written by the influence of the Holy Spirit. How much more is he needed in the process of interpretation! When men and women meet to study the word of God, they should have to ask for the guidance of the Holy Spirit who led the prophet and men to write the writings of the Bible. It is important that in every step of hermeneutics bible interpretation, the Holy Spirit be invited for guidance. When Jesus was going to heaven, he told the disciples that He would send the “Helper, the Holy Spirit “to make them understand all things of the scriptures. Prophet Zachariah said also that it is the Holy Spirit’s office to direct this search and reward it ”not by Power or by the mighty, but by the power of the Holy Spirit “Zach 4:6. This shows that the human process of comparison of scripture should be guided by the Holy Spirit. I wish to conclude by underscoring the one of the great principle of bible and scripture authority in the book of “Cosmic Christ of the Scripture”. The author says that the scripture authority in relation to Christian faith. Here the authors say that the scriptures guide the Christian in matters of knowledge. This shows that scripture is the rule of faith and practice. Here the author denotes that the scripture is the guide to the extra-biblical knowledge of the world. The author strongly says that the reason why we have many disagreements among the Christians faith, is based on how we are going to do and practice theology while we holding Biblical authority.
comment Frm JCOKE Im very glad to have come a cross you relection.Your auement is based on the fact that when God intended to do a a miracle, He never also intended to break the Law. I love your a guement that even Jesus when He was on earth, He never broke the law but He had come to fulfil the law. He surely came and lived among men but He never broke the law for God respect what He has made.This is a pure inspiration thought that we have been learning in class and as discussed in the book "Understanding the Scriptures" Remembering from the class discussion, i have to understand that God does not break the law of nature when He wants to do amiracle because He is the one who had put the laws of nature in place.As you have said, it is therefore true that Jesus live and respect the moral law and laws of nature.This is a great lesson for us to learn.
I must say that the author puts forth a strong explanation of his stance regarding a biblical EGW. I can agree that she follows the principles outlined in previous chapters description of “how” to read God's books but forgive me for still being a little confused. I looked up the meaning for biblical (just to make sure that I had it right) and realize that there are many books that I read that I feel could be classified as biblical based on information provided in this book so far. So what exactly is really trying to be established in this chapter? Maybe it’s just me but I feel there is an underlining tenor of more. If it is a reinforcement of belief in extra-biblical book (thus to support EGW), then fine. If this is the case then we need to ensure that we do just practice while evaluating other non-biblical writers, but I fear that this won’t be done. It’s as if we feel that EGW is the only extra –biblical voice out there. If we give credence to other extra-biblical sources so that take away from EGW’s ministry? Just tossing out questions that are running through my mind?
I probably have not clearly stated my confusion on this chapter and may repost at a later time. I welcome feedback.
When I was reading Dr.Martin Hanna’s book,”Cosmic Christ of the Scripture” I would identify the divinity in place in the Bible. Yahweh is Lord Det. 6.4,Love God your God,, vs. 5,Gene 1:26-let us make man in our own image, God said man has become one of us, Gen 3:22,Gen 11:6—8 God said let us go down and see man. These are some of the terms that show that there is unity in divinity. As well also in the time of baptismal of Christ, the father introduces His beloved son that He is well pleased (Matt 3:16-17).The the two persons of Godhead is heard however, the Holy Spirit is veiled but the time of His ascension Jesus mentions that He will send the Holy Spirit to come and make them understand all things. When we see the tittles that are employed interchangeably, the son is called the wonderful counselor and everlasting father (is 9:6) and both the son and the father are given the name savior (Titus 1:3-4) and as Lord of Lords. The same way the eternal life is used with the father eternal father, and the eternal Spirit. This shows that the Holy Spirit participated in these titles of mutual indwelling. This is what Jesus meant when He said to Philip “ if you have seen me you have see n he father. The father is identified as the father who has spoken through the son (Heb 1:1-2), and Jesus is addressed as the father..”your thrones, o God is forever” vs. 6. All the three God-head persons are very unique in their roles and functions. Now we come to the topic of the humanity and divinity of Jesus. He was God fullness in head bodily (Col 2:9) and at the same time He was human full such that whoever confesses that Jesus came in the flesh, has the spirit of God (1Jhn 4:2) Jesus was tempted in all points as man is but yet without sin. The story of the humanity of Christ is every thin g to us. Through the humanity of Christ, He lived a perfect life that we all who believe in Him are sure to be restored to the personhood of the lost humanity. For He was made like unto His brethren, tempted in all points yet without sin. He has left us a perfect example to follow. In His humanity, he restored the church and gave the church gifts for ministering to one another till we all become perfect in the humanity of Christ. At the same time, we learn that through His humanity He has made it possible for us to be partakers of the divine nature which is the goal for God to have the unity of the human and divine. Jesus came in the human nature so that we might be partakers of the divine nature and dwell with Him in the fullness of divine nature bodily now by faith and as well when He shall appear in glory.
comment on the arguement of my sister Renee D. Sims above.Yes i agree with you that if the people agree to read extra-biblical books as inspired,as well they need to read the writings of Ellen White.For they will come to realize that she was inspired even more that some of the extra-Biblical writers.For example the Roman catholic regard so much the extra-canonical books which are not part of the Hebrew canon.If we study this books, we fine that they are nooks which have the History and events that happened in palestine.SO the Catholic consider them as the books of God.They should also use the hermaneutics methods of interpretation of this White books.Therefore i consider my sister's comment.Thanks so much for your new comment in this blog.
class reflection on 3oth Dec.2010. 1Cor 11:5-12. In this class discussion, i was very impressed on the issue of head covering and women and men identity.It is true that Paul was addressing both issues of women and women identy.On one hand Paul was showing that men arenot to cover their heads when praying.But women wought to do the same.Men were created as the image of God as well as women have the image of God.But in the same identity, the woman should admit that Man was created first.However,they were both created in the image of God.It is with Love that we can read this message and agree that husband and woman should have mutuality in doing all.
120 comments:
Reflection 1
I’ll begin my first reflection with thoughts arising from our discussion in class on Wednesday July 7. I was personally challenged during our discussions on allowing the Holy Spirit to participate in our corporate worship. In reflection I think I have supported this in principle but have been uncertain of what it looks like in practice, and more particularly have been afraid of relinquishing too much control, partly in fear of the unknown.
God is a God of order and we have a certain responsibility to maintain an appropriate degree of order in worship. But in what I’ve just written a question is provoked: If God is a God of order why do I fear that giving freedom to the Spirit might bring disorder?(assuming we have the right Spirit). Can’t I trust this God of order to maintain order? And if I can, how does He do this? I really appreciated the insight that order will be maintained when the various gifts of the Spirit are being exercised appropriately. These gifts include teaching and leading and therefore the Spirit works through the teacher and leader to maintain both openness and order. For worship to glorify God the corporate worship experience should be thoughtfully planned and in this the Spirit can work powerfully through the worship leader/planner if allowed to. In this is a personal reminder to ensure that we are working in the Spirit’s power and not our own. As I listened to this discussion, reflecting on the reason for our(my) reluctance to relinquish control of corporate worship to the Spirit, a deeper question struck at my heart: Why am I so reluctant to relinquish full control of my life to the Spirit? I ask this of myself as one who loves God and professes to have given my life to Him and to His control. Yet I find myself forced to confess that I like to be in control and I fear the unknown. Further, I’m not even sure what such a life would look like, or feel like. Possibly part of the answer to all this is found in the discussion above. If I believe in a God of order surely I can trust Him to maintain appropriate order in my life, and to do this through various God-appointed means. If I believe this I should have less reason to fear the “unknown”. I’m sure that the applications of our discussion can go further here but these initial thoughts are both challenging and encouraging.
This personal challenge came to me as I listened to our discussion of a more corporate challenge. And in this I think there also lies part of the answer to the original question. Surely it follows that the worship of those whose lives are fully led by the Spirit will be Spirit-led, Spirit-filled, and God-glorifying. Perhaps part of our reluctance to relinquish control of corporate worship to the Spirit lies in our not having given Him full control of our individual lives. If my life is fully under the control of the Spirit then surely everything I do will be surrendered to Him, and this will include my involvement in corporate worship. (Or perhaps I am reading into the situation something that is only personally applicable to me and not generally significant to others?).
I began my reading for this class by reading right through The Cosmic Christ of Scripture and really enjoyed it. I am currently struggling with gaining a clear answer to thoughts along the following lines: I have been inclined to think of the Revelation of Christ as a subset of what is revealed in Scripture, and possibly (subconsciously) as subordinate to Scripture though I know He is not. However while Christ is the Supreme Revelation, we are dependent on the record of Scripture, in particular the gospels, to reveal Him. While all scripture testifies of Him it is the gospels that record the revealing of the personal divine-human Jesus Christ. So we rely on the gospels to “experience” the Supreme Revelation that was experienced first-hand by those who encountered Him when He was on earth. Does this in any way elevate the gospels as “supreme” in Scripture? I don’t think the answer is “yes”, and perhaps I’m asking the wrong question.
It is interesting for me to join the journey to overlook how God reveals himself. Revelation
At first, I read chapter one from the book “understanding Scripture an Adventist approach”. This chapter deals with the historical back ground of the Adventist Biblical interpretation. I want to point out my insight from the chapter. I was amazed to see that the history of the biblical interpretation of the Adventist church cannot be separated from the history of Christianity. This chapter shows that we have to trace all the way back to the first century and each time, people of God understood what they had to understand by interpretation. As we know there were times that all the biblical interpretation scholars were influenced by Hellenistic culture, or during the medieval churches ruined the sound method of the biblical interpretation. However, God restored the method of interpretation of inspired writing so that we may see it right in 21st century. The biblical interpretation of the Adventist church has been developed very unique way the furthermore, it is still active and progressive. When I read the history of our church, I assumed that it could be dangerous to go on journey to seek the right message and interpretation from the bible without theological education system in those old days but I believed that the Holy spirit work in us, and through us to lead to the future. In class, we asked question “how can we determine the work of the Holy spirit?” it is still difficult question but when I read the biblical interpretation history of our church, I could find my answer there. It was interesting that Dr. Hanna mentioned about space for the Holy Spirit, and I would view that our church history shows how it worked. I personally believe that historical – grammatical method is very efficient way to approach to interpret the Scripture. But as we saw the history, if we just focus on this method as research perspective, we may lose the original meaning meant by the original author.
I think Adventist history is the history of biblical interpretation. Hence, our identity relay on our hermeneutics on inspired revelation of God. The Adventist interpreter shows us that prophetic interpretation which was fulfilled in actual secular history that proves God is in control of the world. Our method uses Typology and Analogy of scripture to link between the Old Testament and the New Testament by Christ centered perspective. As we have this point of view, I think William Miller’s position in the Seventh-day Adventist can be different. First, William Miller and the Seventh-day Adventist church are on the same page in terms of philosophy to approach to the scripture and the 2nd coming. In contrast, William Miller can be positioned on the different side because Sabbatarian’s interpretation has been more intensive, progressive. As a result of that, the biblical interpretation of the Adventist church employs variety is concepts which are biblical. I want to quote the sentence from this chapter, “Adventists are convinced God has raised up the Seventh0day Adventist Church, within the challenges of the “last days”, to restore and uplift the authority of His Word and to promote a system of biblical interpretation derived from the scripture itself”. This statement makes me think that we, the Adventist can be the revelation of God.
Secondly, I read “Cosmic Christ Connections” page 15-45, it also has interesting view about the revelation of God. I usually know and mentioned about the revelation of the nature, but never had firm view on it, but I really liked the explanation about “God breathed” and it also interesting the concept connection and application of tota, sola, prima to Christ, Creation, scripture. And I totally agree with Dr. Hanna’s view that the scripture has to be the first revelation because for human beings, we need to have something to determine the God’s revelation. So the Scripture has significant function among these revelations.
I hope I would be another revelation of God to reveal Jesus Christ.
What presuppositions do we come with when we read scripture, when we open our bibles? Do you and I bring so much to the table when we read the bible that we are unable to receive wholely from the word of God? I think that each one of us does come to everything that we do with presuppositions.
As I think of myself as a Seventh Day Adventist I wonder what presuppositions I come with that not only help my ability to understand Gods word, but I also wonder what things I bring to the table that hold me back from understanding what scripture has to tell me.
When I talk to other individuals who come from different faith back grounds I am hit by the presuppositions that they have that make them believe and do what they do. I have to look at myself while I say this statement because my presuppositions make me look at what they believe and effect my viewpoint.
As the book said ‘’true neutrality, or absolute objectivity, cannot be achieved in the act of interpretation” (pg 28 U.S.- Reid) Following this thought as I read further I can agree with the thought ‘the bible must be given room to teach us its own essential categories’ (same), so that we think with the biblical text rather than just think about the text of the bible (same).
I loved how the text book talked about how the scriptures can and will change our ‘preunderstandings’. How when we read scripture without coming with all our baggage we will go away with what the bible is trying (the HS) to teach us.
When I was thinking about presuppositions I was thinking more on the basis of my denominational upbringing. But in the chapter it brought out a good point. We are all presupposed based on other factors in life. To name a big one sin- which has many things attached to it such as pride, self-deception, doubt, etc. These and other things make us predisposed to think a certain way.
But there are presuppositions and attitudes that would be good to have when coming to the scriptures. The chapter mentioned a few. A huge one for me is being open and honest. How often do we come to something and are totally open to new thoughts and honest about our own feelings and thoughts (some people have an easier time then others). Faith is a big part of it; what we believe to be true is based on a strong faith. Many tools I think can equip us to properly interpret scripture and it is our presuppositions that we need to set aside to be able to come to a right and true understanding of what God is trying to tell us in his word.
Thankfully we are not coming to it alone and with no help. We have the great helper to guide and lead us as we humbly come and ask for guidance in our study of his word.
In this class and in other classes and activities this last year I am constantly shown that more of my time is to be focused on Christ. Not just the two books that I’m used to focusing on. But the 3rd and most important one. I’ve also been coming to grips with some of my presuppositions. How I have grown up in a legalistic church where I am presupposed to put my view on things… Well through this class and others I hope to change this into a more Christ focused and Christ character reflected ministry.
What presuppositions do we come with when we read scripture, when we open our bibles? Do you and I bring so much to the table when we read the bible that we are unable to receive wholely from the word of God? I think that each one of us does come to everything that we do with presuppositions.
As I think of myself as a Seventh Day Adventist I wonder what presuppositions I come with that not only help my ability to understand Gods word, but I also wonder what things I bring to the table that hold me back from understanding what scripture has to tell me.
When I talk to other individuals who come from different faith back grounds I am hit by the presuppositions that they have that make them believe and do what they do. I have to look at myself while I say this statement because my presuppositions make me look at what they believe and effect my viewpoint.
As the book said ‘’true neutrality, or absolute objectivity, cannot be achieved in the act of interpretation” (pg 28 U.S.- Reid) Following this thought as I read further I can agree with the thought ‘the bible must be given room to teach us its own essential categories’ (same), so that we think with the biblical text rather than just think about the text of the bible (same).
I loved how the text book talked about how the scriptures can and will change our ‘preunderstandings’. How when we read scripture without coming with all our baggage we will go away with what the bible is trying (the HS) to teach us.
When I was thinking about presuppositions I was thinking more on the basis of my denominational upbringing. But in the chapter it brought out a good point. We are all presupposed based on other factors in life. To name a big one sin- which has many things attached to it such as pride, self-deception, doubt, etc. These and other things make us predisposed to think a certain way.
Many tools I think can equip us to properly interpret scripture and it is our presuppositions that we need to set aside to be able to come to a right and true understanding of what God is trying to tell us in his word.
Thankfully we are not coming to it alone and with no help. We have the great helper to guide and lead us as we humbly come and ask for guidance in our study of his word.
In this class and in other classes and activities this last year I am constantly shown that more of my time is to be focused on Christ. Not just the two books that I’m used to focusing on. But the 3rd and most important one. I’ve also been coming to grips with some of my presuppositions. How I have grown up in a legalistic church where I am presupposed to put my view on things… Well through this class and others I hope to change this into a more Christ focused and Christ character reflected ministry.
What presuppositions do we come with when we read scripture, when we open our bibles? Do you and I bring so much to the table when we read the bible that we are unable to receive wholely from the word of God? I think that each one of us does come to everything that we do with presuppositions.
As I think of myself as a Seventh Day Adventist I wonder what presuppositions I come with that not only help my ability to understand Gods word, but I also wonder what things I bring to the table that hold me back from understanding what scripture has to tell me.
When I talk to other individuals who come from different faith back grounds I am hit by the presuppositions that they have that make them believe and do what they do. I have to look at myself while I say this statement because my presuppositions make me look at what they believe and effect my viewpoint.
As the book said ‘’true neutrality, or absolute objectivity, cannot be achieved in the act of interpretation” (pg 28 U.S.- Reid) Following this thought as I read further I can agree with the thought ‘the bible must be given room to teach us its own essential categories’ (same), so that we think with the biblical text rather than just think about the text of the bible (same).
I loved how the text book talked about how the scriptures can and will change our ‘preunderstandings’. How when we read scripture without coming with all our baggage we will go away with what the bible is trying (the HS) to teach us.
When I was thinking about presuppositions I was thinking more on the basis of my denominational upbringing. But in the chapter it brought out a good point. We are all presupposed based on other factors in life. To name a big one sin- which has many things attached to it such as pride, self-deception, doubt, etc. These and other things make us predisposed to think a certain way.
Thankfully we are not coming to it alone and with no help. We have the great helper to guide and lead us as we humbly come and ask for guidance in our study of his word.
In this class and in other classes and activities this last year I am constantly shown that more of my time is to be focused on Christ. Not just the two books that I’m used to focusing on. But the 3rd and most important one. I’ve also been coming to grips with some of my presuppositions. How I have grown up in a legalistic church where I am presupposed to put my view on things… Well through this class and others I hope to change this into a more Christ focused and Christ character reflected ministry.
What presuppositions do we come with when we read scripture, when we open our bibles? Do you and I bring so much to the table when we read the bible that we are unable to receive wholely from the word of God? I think that each one of us does come to everything that we do with presuppositions.
As I think of myself as a Seventh Day Adventist I wonder what presuppositions I come with that not only help my ability to understand Gods word, but I also wonder what things I bring to the table that hold me back from understanding what scripture has to tell me.
When I talk to other individuals who come from different faith back grounds I am hit by the presuppositions that they have that make them believe and do what they do. I have to look at myself while I say this statement because my presuppositions make me look at what they believe and effect my viewpoint.
As the book said ‘’true neutrality, or absolute objectivity, cannot be achieved in the act of interpretation” (pg 28 U.S.- Reid) Following this thought as I read further I can agree with the thought ‘the bible must be given room to teach us its own essential categories’ (same), so that we think with the biblical text rather than just think about the text of the bible (same).
I loved how the text book talked about how the scriptures can and will change our ‘preunderstandings’. How when we read scripture without coming with all our baggage we will go away with what the bible is trying (the HS) to teach us.
When I was thinking about presuppositions I was thinking more on the basis of my denominational upbringing. But in the chapter it brought out a good point. We are all presupposed based on other factors in life. To name a big one sin- which has many things attached to it such as pride, self-deception, doubt, etc. These and other things make us predisposed to think a certain way.
Thankfully we are not coming to it alone and with no help. We have the great helper to guide and lead us as we humbly come and ask for guidance in our study of his word.
Point of order (sorry…I’ve just returned from the GS session ☺)
It would be really helpful to have some ways to distinguish our following comments from the assigned reflections. Should we signify our posts with introductory fraises like “comment on the reflection of X.X.” or may be there is any other way to sort them?
Refection 1
Johnathan Coker
I was intrigued by our discussion in class this week pertaining to our need to make room for the Holy Spirit in our Worship Time. Quite often I find myself watching the reactions and level of participation from others in Church. I have noticed a severe lack of passion in worship services. When we stand to sing together, most of the congregation zones out. Their faces become blank, and there is no zeal or energy in their worship. The responsive readings are a drone and people seem to be less and less willing to participate in any fashion of worship.
Now I want this to be clear, I am not making a judgment call, rather I am trying to make an observation. I have been wondering for some time what could be the cause of our decaying worship services. After reading the first chapter of the textbook I am starting to think that not giving the Holy Spirit room in our worship service might be a possible cause for the descent in worship. Our culture is a very self-sufficient one. We don’t like to depend on or even allow for help for others. There are some within our church that would like to depend on their own understanding to interpret the Bible. However we know that this will not lead to a proper exegesis.
I think it is possible that decline in worship and the straying from sola scriptura are linked. When we do not allow or make room for God in our worship or study we stand on dangerous grounds. When God is removed from worship it becomes mechanical and dead. There is no life in worship when we are simply going through the motions. When we stop inviting the Holy Spirit to guide our study we can again fall on dangerous grounds. Without the Holy Spirits guidance through the scriptures, we allow room for false interpretation. As we have seen with the Temptation of Christ, Satan can use the Bible against us even through it is an instrument of awesome Holy power.
The Adventist church is not in a bubble, though it may seem that way at times. We are influenced by our culture and the other cultures surrounding us. The issues that face us as Americans also affect our church. The same can be said about our brothers and sisters in other countries. The issues that they face as a people affect the church too. All of the issues and cultural biases around the world affect our church, on a local and global level. This is why it is so important to include the Holy Spirit in whatever we are doing, especially worship because without guidance for above we can stray away from where God intended us to be.
After reading the first part of Cosmic Christ of Scripture I have found another variation of the same theme. Scripture is what we have to point us towards Christ, however we make sure that Christ reigns supreme over scripture. This too pushes us to make sure we allow room for the Holy Spirit to guide in our study. If we loose sight of God in our quest for knowledge then we have lost sight of what is truly important.
However it is entirely possible that I could be wrong, or might only be partly wrong. It is merely a theory. I’ll leave it you guys to decide.
To: Sehyun Sean LEe
I have also struggled with forming a complete view of the revelation of nature. I am really interested by nature and how it fits into the big picture. Now I have a better idea.
To: Owen Ellis
I was also really impressed by our discussion in class about making room for the Holy Spirit. I also agree with your statement about God being a God of order, however I think we have to make sure that it is His order we are looking after and not our own. I think this is why it is so important to make room for Him. Worship isn't about us, it is about Him.
Response to Johnathan's 1st Reflection Blog;
You touched on two points that I embrace. The first about not giving the Holy Spirit room in our worship service. While this was being discussed in class the upper room experience came to mind. It appears that they gave room for the Holy Spirit to manifest itself and the results were evident. The second point you touched on was about Adventism not being in a bubble, we are part of, and have been influenced by, many others that have never been Adventist. EGW says something about losing our way when we forget our past. We need to be mindful that we are not in a bubble. Thanks for your thoughts.
Assignment #1
In my reflection paper, I choose to talk about the word Hermeneutics. It is the science of right interpreting the importance of inspired words whether non biblical or biblical. A clear open mind and a persuasive heart permit the Holy Spirit to light us with the message the creator has for us as we read the Bible in perceptive.
As a result of reading across the entire variety of Ellen White’s writings we can find out her real point of view on the issues. It is indispensable to give ear to historical background since time and place must be carefully noted. With a lacking of background information it is complicated to understand what Ellen White is saying. For example, in 1894, as she was in Australia stressed to find funds for mission at the same time as Bicycle racing became a public sport, the philosophy in her view was idolatry, passion, self-importance, unfortunate stewardship, and radicalism. Ellen G. White used the same warning concerning producing photographs, clothing style, innovative nutritional options, drama, and worldly distraction. Adolescent people saw the irregularity and were disappointed. Nowadays the similar philosophy would expand to the television, movie, video games, and so a lot of other kinds of up to date distraction. Morality look to the heart of God’s counsel and are frequently eternal as they are in Bible. Ellen White regularly uses Scripture homiletically. The God’s servant will apply a passage at moment to build a point to someone that is taken out of its unique background. It is essential to keep away from coming to the last exegetical conclusions based on this practice. The creator, God desires that we reason from common sense. Situation change conditions and transform the relation of things. Healthy life was her main goal at the back of vegetarianism. That is not very essential to get the life of someone of God’s people to provide our normal needs. It would be better not to eat meat instead of using the flesh of pork. Hellen G. White suggests constantly links to the love of God in Salvation. Let’s not enlarge her statements too far as several do about foundation. Hellen G. White argues for an approximate chronology above 6000 yrs. In addition, her linguistic style was that of the 19th C. verbal communication when interaction meant communication or exchanging opinion and feeling in public interaction; nice meant performance fragility or refinement and hard to please or convince. For several years it was not possible to distribute the full background of many of her statements because of discretion issues. Ellen G. White and her assistants brought together material she had written in a gathering formula. That is indispensable to apply resonance hermeneutical values in studying Ellen White writings if not her writings are liable to misinterpretation, misunderstanding, and mistreat.
Response to Ryan Whitehead's 1st Blog:
I confess that as I began to read your blog I became a bit close-minded, but I nevertheless read on. This came about when you said, "When I talk to other individuals who come from different faith back grounds I am hit by the presuppositions that they have that make them believe and do what they do." However, as I read on I let out a sigh of relief by your next comment which said, "I have to look at myself while I say this statement because my presuppositions make me look at what they believe and effect my viewpoint."
As a new member of this denomination there are some that "put down" others that are not Adventists. In doing so it gives the impression that we Adventists are self-absorb, know it all and prideful. While I believe that we have many truths, I also believe that God is the only one with the Ultimate truth. Yes we need to allow scripture to speak, but we also need to make room for the Holy Spirit to speak. I believe that this is where EGW stood and how she was used by God. Thanks for sharing.
The idea of hermeneutics is not something new; it has been around before Jesus came unto Earth. From the moment that the ancient writers began to record the Torah, people began to interpret such. As history has shown us many learned individuals, influenced by the Rabbi’s of the day, held to beliefs that they genuinely felt were Godly truths. This is evident by the question Jesus would pose, “What does scripture say?” Professor Hanna raised this thought during one of the lectures, and I want to add some food for thought to that discussion.
Given the fact that misaligned biblical hermeneutics occurred before, continued to occur during, and continued to occur after Jesus’ time, can one group of people claim to have the absolute correct form of hermeneutics? I raise this question, as I did in class, out of fear. For it seems by the attitudes of several that Adventist are the only ones that can properly perform hermeneutics. My fear is that we Adventists may become so closed minded that we become blind to what is right before us. Is this not what happened to the Jewish leaders of Christ day? As we know the Messiah was there before them and they were unable to see Him. These were well taught individuals, who earnestly believed in their scriptural understanding, but yet rejected the real Truth, the Emmanuel. I fear that if we are not cautious that we too can fall into the same snare. I am not by any means suggesting nor implying that we need to move into another direction, or that we need to embrace another denominations way of hermeneutics, but merely raising the yellow flag of caution, in order that we also do not repeat the mistakes of the past.
Why is this so important to me? I know from attending various theological schools that every one approaches scripture with “presuppositions”. Every denomination approaches the matter of hermeneutics from their theological point of view. And often miss simple truths, and or deep truths. It is become evident to me that all followers of Christ need to put down their presuppositions and let scripture, as well as the Holy Spirit, move in their midst as it comes to biblical interpretation. There is one thing that history has proven that Christians are good at, killing those that do not believe alike. We have allowed the Anti-Christ to enter our hearts and guide our minds and biblical hermeneutics.
I admire the early pioneers of the SDA church who took time to earnestly pray, seek the Holy Spirit, and ensure that they were of the same accord before claiming certain truths. I have learned that I don’t have to convince another person of something in scripture. If I allow the Holy Spirit the room, He will do the convincing. It was such with Mr. & Mrs. White. They went against biblical truths when presented with the matter of eating pork. And in due time the Spirit of God convinced them, and they followed and obeyed. I believe that we need to return to those days when people gathered for hours and days to pray and seek the direction of the Holy Spirit. Nowadays we have a 10-15 minute prayer, call a meeting to order, take a vote and if all agree, we accept what was brought before the body of believers.
EGW said it best when she said, "We have nothing to fear for the future, except as we shall forget the way the Lord has led us, and His teaching in our past history." (Life Sketches, p. 196). I end by saying that hermeneutics does not save, Jesus does. Lets take it back to Him in prayer.
I strongly appreciate your reflection Sehyun for the way you lead your topic.The sentence that I really appreciate is the one you write, God has the control of the world,and I add in whatever the situation God is present.I think you do a good job.
Johnathan Coku
You are right when you say there are many churches which are really want to depend on their own understanding.I think it is because they want to spread their own ideas instead of using those in the Bible. I think you get the point.
From Thursday’s lecture I had a few thoughts that came to mind, and I thought I would share them before I write on the content contained in the readings for this first week. I believe that my hermeneutics must first be Christocentric for three purposes: 1) to be drawn to Christ through a correct understanding of who He is as portrayed through Scripture; 2) to bring about clarification and unity within the body of Christ, as to who Christ was and is; and 3) a love for evangelism—making disciples as Christ’s great commission (Mat. 28.19)—springs forth only by viewing Christ in the beauty of His true character found in Scripture. On the lines of my third reason—evangelism and hermeneutics—I believe my hermeneutics should not be for exclusion so that I push others away that want to come to Christ. I must understand how to be faithful to my God and my neighbor. This does not mean I should lower, or diminish the Words of Christ. If I am called to “speak up” concerning an issue I will, but I must be loving in my rebukes with fellow Christian believers, as well as tender and understanding in my friendship with those of different viewpoints and ways of life. I don’t mean to downplay the truth, but my presentation of truth must not be for the purpose of condemnation, but to draw others to the true knowledge of Jesus, and furthermore to a life changing relationship with Jesus who is able then to make a believer from a non-believer. Unless my presentation is loving, understanding, and for the purpose of drawing and not dividing or condemning, correct hermeneutics will not even have the power to save the beholder of truth. The fullness of the gospel must change me first, and if I don’t allow it to, I have lost all I have been striving for. A candle in the darkness of a cave is no use for a blind man, and that is what I will be if the message of Jesus does not change me. Don’t misunderstand me, I agree with Alberto Trimm, who ends the first chapter of Understanding Scripture saying, “Adventists are convinced God has raised up the Seventh-day Adventist Church, within the challenges of the “last days” (2 Tim. 3:1), to restore and uplift the authority of His Word and to promote a system of biblical interpretation derived from the Scripture itself” (12), I just believe it must be done in a manner as if Christ was sharing the message Himself.
Moving to the content of the lecture and book of Dr. Hanna I found the four levels of revelation absolutely fascinating. I have never thought of placing Christ into the model of revelation. All my life I simply understood that Scripture is our main means of the revelation of Christ. I never thought to place Christ ahead of Scripture! Interestingly enough, in order to fully grasp Jesus Christ we must know Him for ourselves, but not simply by what other say about Him. Our knowledge of Him must come from a relationship with Him. The only problem that I find with the idea that the revelation of Christ precedes the revelation found in Scripture is that if I didn’t have the Scriptures to guide my prayer life with Christ I would never know Christ fully. (Once I get into the nitty and gritty of this I don’t seem to fully understand this). I guess my problem arises when I start asking, how exactly does Christ reveal Himself outside of the Scriptures to me personally? I know a few ways, my prayer life, and my life experiences, but once again these both have to be put under subjection of the Scriptures lest I am misled by my own thoughts or demonic thoughts. I in my opinion there should be a primacy of the Scriptures in this model. I fully agree that Bibliolotry is unacceptable, and that is not what I am advocating for, but “Christ” does not seem to be a revelation point in and of Himself without the knowledge of the Scriptures as the basis for a sure authority to my thoughts and experiences. Is this not what the problem was in the OT, and why Jesus had to come in the first place, to reveal the Father to fallen humanity in the flesh so they might know Him personally? Therefore if I put my prayer and daily experience—which is the only way I know to make Christ above Scripture—above the Scriptures I will fall into putting myself above the Scriptures. What are your thoughts?
comment to Owen Ellis
I find myself in agreement with you concerning Christ as a form of revelation not really being a revelation. To me it seems plain that we cannot have Christ without the Scriptures for us in our modern day, since Christ is not living in this time. He has chosen to reveal Himself through the Scriptures and therefore the truth about who Christ is is revealed through the Scripture.
To Owen and Coker
I have to say that I think much of our fear concerning the Holy Spirit has to do with the pentecostal movement. I believe this for two reasons: 1) Being Seventh-day Adventist's and understanding that a manifestation of the Holy Spirit is speaking in tongues, but only in the form of a classical language. I think many of us fear to say, "let the Holy Spirit lead" would simply open up pentecostal portals, and 2) because we have not fully understood what role the Holy Spirit plays in the common members life. It could be that we have never had this Holy Spirit living modeled to us. I know that I haven't. What do you guys think?
To Owen as well as filip005, jCoker and Co.
I can relate to what you have shared with us. It sounds ridiculous, but it’s really difficult for us, Adventists, Christians, humans, to give up our seeming control and bigheartedly make room in our lives for the omnipresent Spirit.
There was time in my life when I’ve struggled with fears stumbling me to pray about the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
First of all, I wasn’t sure if my church would understand me if the Spirit decides to give me “inappropriate” gifts? It took some time for me to surrender and accept possible inconvenience and challenges of the Spirit-filled life.
My another concern was of an unexpected “sneaking” into me (or my church) of the evil spirits instead of the Holy One. That time I was relieved by recognition of the facts of Jesus promises that, first, God would never give us a stone instead of bread; secondly, He is much stronger than devil, so He would never allowed the enemy to occupy His property (Luke 11). According Jesus’ reasoning, it is much more dangerous to keep our hearts vacant, because there are many of those who are looking for an opportunity to move in with a troublemaking company.
And finally, isn’t the Spirit the only way I can stay in touch with Christ? Jesus has chosen to be forever the partaker of the human family, embodied in our flesh. It is only by the ministry of the Holy Spirit Christ fulfils his promise “I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Revealing Jesus to us, the Spirit reveals himself, because they are one with Christ and the Father in divine nature and character. To be afraid of the Spirit is to be afraid of Christ. So, why should I?
I guess, the same kind of fear as we may have regarding the Spirit, Muslims or Jews may have in relation to Jesus Christ and Christianity. As far as I understand, the strategy of misrepresentation has been employed by the ex Mr. Universe for a while. And we should give him a credit for his inexhaustible creativity, determination and effectiveness.
Reflection # 1.
I’m thankful to Dr. Hanna for turning our attention and discussions toward the ministry of the Holy Spirit. One of the chapters in out textbook sheds light on the role of the Holy Spirit in interpretation of the Scripture, i.e. hermeneutics. Several other chapters indirectly deal with the role of the Spirit in the process of inspiration. But I got curious about the role of the Holy Spirit in relation to the divine revelation.
It’s difficult to get focused on the Spirit.
He is quite essential and important. His status is high. His position is noble. And yet He is the most humble and unnoticeable servant the world has ever known.
He is like the air, that brings life, cares waves of light and sounds, molecules of smells etc., and yet is quite imperceptible.
Without Him no Cosmos, neither Church, nor Scripture, and not even Christ would be possible. There is no time in history or a place in the universe when and where he is not.
He sustains Cosmos. He hovered the world into existence. His presence is the breath of life for every living creature.
He maintains the church. He anointed priests, prophets and kings. He equips saints for ministry. He distributes gifts.
He illuminates Scriptures. He inspired holy men to write it. He has preserved it. He empowers people to live it.
He glorifies Christ. He conceived Him, nourished Him, anointed Him and raised Him from the dead.
He is not a God’s revelation, but rather the Divine Revelator. He is the great communicator between heaven and earth. “It is his office to present Christ.” [SC 91.2]
In our universe nothing takes place without His participation and mediation. Yet His close attention doesn’t threaten our privacy. His constant presence doesn’t limit our freedom. We may ignore Him, or even deny His existence, but he is here for us.
Like a self-centered child I find myself more fascinated with spiritual gifts, then with the Giver. However, He Himself is “the most essential and complete gift to bestow upon us, a gift that would bring the boundless resources of grace.” He is the best gift our Kingly Brother could think of.
The Holy Spirit is not considered to be one of the “books” of God’s revelation. It seems like it’s Ok with Him. It was His conscious choice to live for the glory and benefits of others.
However, His humble unostentatious ministry always would be an eloquent revelation of the divine character for me.
Reflection # 1.
I’m thankful to Dr. Hanna for pointing our attention and discussions toward the ministry of the Holy Spirit. One of the chapters in out textbook sheds light on the role of the Holy Spirit in interpretation of the Scripture, i.e. hermeneutics. Several other chapters indirectly deal with the role of the Spirit in the process of inspiration. So I wonder, what is the role of the Holy Spirit in divine revelation?
It is kind of difficult to get focused on the Spirit. He is essential and very important. His status is high. His position is noble. And yet He is the most humble and unnoticeable servant the world has ever known.
There is no time in history or a place in universe when and where he is not. Like the air, He means so much, but gets noticed so little.
Yet without Him no Cosmos, neither Church, nor Scripture, and not even Christ would be possible.
He sustains Cosmos. He hovered the world into existence. His presence is the breath of life for every living creature.
He maintains the church. He anointed priests, prophets and kings. He equips saints for ministry. He distributes gifts.
He illuminates Scriptures. He inspired holy men to write it. He has preserved it. He empowers people to live it.
He glorifies Christ. He conceived Him, nourished Him, anointed Him and raised Him from the dead.
He is not a God’s revelation, but definitely the Divine Revelator. He is the great communicator between heaven and the earth. “It is his office to present Christ.”[SC91.2]
In our universe nothing takes place without His participation and mediation. Yet His close attention doesn’t threaten our privacy. His constant presence doesn’t limit our freedom. We may ignore Him, or even deny His existence, but He is here for us.
Like a self-centered child I find myself more fascinated with spiritual gifts, then with the Giver. Still He Himself is “the most essential and complete gift to bestow upon us, a gift that would bring the boundless resources of grace.” He is the best gift our Kingly Brother could think of.
The Holy Spirit is not considered as one of the “books” of God’s revelation. But it is perfectly fine with Him. It was His conscious choice to live for the glory and benefits of others.
However for us His humble unostentatious ministry always may be an eloquent revelation of the divine character.
Comment to filup005: Relation between Christ and Scripture.
This weekend I had a lot of time to meditate on things we’ve talked about in our class discussions, driving “to and fro” Maryland. The illustration of the way the books of God’s revelation interrelate in my experience was inspired, as you can see, by my surrounding circumstances.
I’ve noticed, that cosmos may be compared with the net of roads. You may be there in the middle of traffic, moving along, not knowing where are you going.
Scripture may be compared with downloaded maps. Now you can know the landscape, names of the roads and towns, distances between them.
However, only by connection to the Satellite it is possible to find out information regarding your current location, to calculate the best way to rich the point of destination, and to know exactly where to make the right turn and take the right exit.
It was God’s grace to provide us with the accurate map, the Bible. But without convincing influence and guidance of the Holy Spirit we have no idea how to apply it for our situation. The best we can do is to memorize it, discuss it, and write dissertations and commentaries on it.
Yet it is advantage of those who has the connection with the Spirit of Christ to be in the right place at the right time with the right message.
If time will come for us to race for life, we cannot maneuver on the roads without the map and direct instructions from the Navigator. So, I’d better learn to cooperate with them now.
Response to Owen Ellis first post-
Owen- thank you for your open and honest post. I believe we often feel the same as what you said. -In reflection I think I have supported this in principle but have been uncertain of what it looks like in practice, and more particularly have been afraid of relinquishing too much control, partly in fear of the unknown.
‘If my life is fully under the control of the Spirit then surely everything I do will be surrendered to Him’- this thought is very close to something I have had on my heart for quite a while. But it is true and right. When we are transformed by the spirit it will effect all aspects of our life. Even leading in our worship.
Response to Jonathan Coker
Refection 1
‘I think it is possible that decline in worship and the straying from sola scriptura are linked.’ I thought this was interesting and it would be neat to see if these two things were linked. Your statements on individuals disconnecting from worship is true I believe; I believe there are many things that effect this.
I don’t think you were implying this but I think that sometimes people can think or act like the Adventist church is outside of error. The bubble you talked about that we are not in is true. We are effected by the things around us and we do sometimes miss the mark. God is continually revealing more of himself to us.
I liked what you said about the holy spirit working in our lives. That is truly how we will see or grow in and through the word.
Response to Viola’s first post;
Viola, thank you for the thoughts you shared on the Holy Spirit, especially for pointing out two things about Him that I’d not really given much thought to before: Firstly, the example of humility that we see in this member of the Godhead. While we’ve also seen this in Christ I’d never thought of it as an obvious attribute of the Holy Spirit but I think you are right. Secondly, I really enjoyed reading your thoughts on the total involvement of the Holy Spirit. This just serves to emphasise His humility in that He does all this in a rather quiet way, not drawing attention to Himself, but rather with the aim that Christ will be lifted up. Thanks again.
Response to Paul's first post:
Paul I believe you raise a valid concern. It seems that with so many of our Adventist truths so well developed, we tend to get a little lazy and skip steps along the way, easily re-deriving now what those before us labored long and prayerfully to arrive at. I think for myself I am sometimes too inclined to base my confidence in the fact that they did this rather than to take a personal lesson from it for my need to do the same. Many of us in Adventism know the “answers” (interpretations) but we don’t really understand the foundation because we haven’t grappled with things from first principles. This could lead to closed mindedness or alternatively an undervaluing of our beliefs. I think that to re-examine our “truths” with an awareness of our presuppositions is not likely to change much in the way of the final interpretations derived (but we should never feel certain of this). It may, however, add more insight, and it will increase our individual understanding of Scripture and our appreciation for Christ. It will also improve our witness. After all, we are told to be ready to give an explanation for what we believe, and shortcut answers don’t cut it with most. I guess we really do want to be known as a People of the Book, and not a People of our own closed-minded interpretations.
Response to Ryan's first post
I am impressed to your oppinion about presupposition. For me, it seemed like wired to see people who are in different faith group has totally different point of view on the scripture. However, sometimes I had same feeling with some of the adventists. The question "What supposition do I have?" makes me think about the holy spirit.
thanks
Response to filip005's first post
While I was taking class, in lecture, and readings, I did not think about filup005's third reason. I feel like I just see the new perspective on revelation, and the Bible interpretation. I thought that the revelation, inspiration and interpretation is all about my understanding, but when I read him saying about relationship between the hermaneutics and evangelism, I am so impressed. Like we discussed the last class, about relevency about our interpretation, I personally agree and like filup005's idea linking these concepts. In this perspective, We can be a revelation of God, Inspired messanger and accurate interpretor of the word of God.
thanks filup005
I found that our discussion of 7/13/2010, was very enlightening. I start by offering my apologies to anyone in class who I may have inadvertently offended. I know that my passion for certain things comes out, and such might be perceived as disrespectful, I mean no such thing. I am glad that God led me into the Adventist Church. I have learned a great deal about church history, biblical languages and now hermeneutics. The thing that I found most intriguing in today’s class was the different models relating to revelation, and my personal discovery of how easily the Church can intertwine the various primacies, to an extent, that heresy becomes the end result. I came to this realization due to my readings for Church History III. The early Roman Catholic Church slowly moved into the direction of placing the axiological prime over the epistemological primer. Their claims of papacy power and sole authority to interpret scripture, is an example of this change. As I thought of such I suddenly became aware that if we Adventist are not careful we too could begin to make the same change. It makes more sense today what EGW said, which Professor Hanna continues to share, that "We have nothing to fear for the future, except as we shall forget the way the Lord has led us, and His teaching in our past history." And in our attempts to prove the theological errors of others and provide evidence that our viewpoint is correct, it appears to me that we are in danger of sending a subliminal message that says that we too are willing to make the shift, as it pertains to the primacies. This has become evident in the words of some of our parishioners who say, “The only true church is the Seventh-day Church. We are the only ones with the truth.” I believe in my heart of hearts that if we were to make some minor adjustments in our language, thousands would come to Jesus. To use such phrases only makes us look like the same Church that we claim is the Anti-Christ. I fear that axiological and hermeneutical discoveries will become Prime and thus lead to heresy.
To view, from a biblical standpoint, that there is an Ultimate prime, whom we know as the incarnate God – Jesus, who is followed by other primes, such as the Holy Scripture, the Church and the Cosmos, is a holistic approach to biblical hermeneutics. Today it all began to mesh together. The a-ha moment was when I used the peanut butter and jelly sandwich to explain the idea of multiple primacies. I confess that this was not something I thought about, but rather something that came out spontaneously. The sandwich has variable substances as part of the whole, but each has its own characteristic/function. One cannot have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich without the bread, the jelly or the peanut butter. Together they represent the whole, and are part of one another as it relates to the sandwich, but separately they have a function. I see the multiple primacies concept in the same light.
I do believe that we have been called to preach a message for these end days. It is a message for those who have strayed away and for those who never knew Him. This is a message about Jesus as Prime and not the Axiological as Prime. It is a message of love, grace, forgiveness, repentance, and renewal. It is the proclamations of the imminence of Jesus’ second coming, the apostasy of “nominal” Christians, and the need to be obedient of all the Ten Commandments. This message encompasses the Cosmos as a whole and thus puts Jesus at the top, at the center, as Prime. If Jesus is not at the center of our message than all we are preaching is self. To move away from such is cause for fear; for then we have forgotten how God has led in the past. It is written that EGW ‘“saw Christ’s sacrifice as the “the great truth around which all other truths cluster”’ (Light Bearers, pg 163). It appears to me that Mrs. White was promoting the idea of Jesus as Prime.
Reflection 2
On the role of Angels in hermeneutics
As I was reading the chapter Faith, Reason and the Holy Spirit in Hermeneutics in our text (Understanding Scripture) the following quote from Ellen White provided stimulus for significant reflection: “If you come to the study of the Scriptures in humility, with earnest prayer for guidance, angels of the God will open to you its living realities.” Though having heard this kind of idea before, and have possibly even read this quote, I seem to have assumed that my mind was mostly closed to external influences and had never closely thought of angels in this light. I have typically only considered two contributors to my thoughts: God, who I talk with in prayer and who I believe is able to guide my thinking, and secondly the devil, who I also believe is able to place thoughts in my mind (I’d like to think that I am incapable of originating some of the thoughts that appear in my mind so where else could they come from?). At this point a light came on; if the devil who is simply a fallen angel is able to suggest thoughts to my mind then why shouldn’t other unfallen angels be able to? The thought that my guardian angel (whom I’ve believed in since childhood and must have caused much pain over the years) is by my side trying to open Scripture to me when I read, is a new and encouraging thought, especially when I consider all the efforts I know are going on to distract me. Don’t get me wrong; if you’d told me this was the case I would have readily agreed with you, but to agree with or vaguely comprehend something is not the same as having the truth, and implications of the matter, dawn on you in such a way that it impacts how you think. This is what I mean buy a light coming on.
This observation also raised another question for me: Why doesn’t God leave all of this work to the Holy Spirit (who is Himself God)? Or in other words, why does the Holy Spirit use angels to do what I imagine He is well able to do himself? Could it be that they, like us, are blessed by the experience of helping to reveal the hidden things of God to others?
As I consider this topic I have every reason to accept what Ellen White says about the angels’ involvement in this area. After all, doesn’t Paul say the following about angels: “Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?” (Heb 1:14), and doesn’t the Psalmist say, “He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.” (Psalm 91:11). I typically think of the role of angels in terms their providing protection from physical harm, but what could be more important than their ministering to us buy guiding our understanding of Scripture so that Christ is correctly revealed, and protecting us spiritually from the erroneous suggestions of fallen angels? If the angels are indeed God’s agents in the great conflict, which at its core is questioning God’s character, what could be more important than guiding us toward a correct understanding of God? They love God and are devoted to Him and I suspect they would consider this type of involvement a huge privilege, and would take it most seriously. Perhaps I need to take it more seriously too.
As I read this chapter I found it quite sobering to see my personal Bible study in the context of the Great Controversy, with both good and evil influences contending to direct my mind. I understand more of the importance of sincere and humble prayer when opening God’s word. Further, I suspect that we have a tendency to underestimate the involvement of both realms of the supernatural in our lives. While I am wary of the danger of “worshipping angels” as Paul warns against in Colossians 2:18, I’m beginning to value more the role of my guardian angel and am interested in gaining a deeper understanding of this.
Reflection #1
In reviewing the discussions of our first week of class, I can honestly say, that I've been captured by the exceeding greatness of a God who would choose to interact with me despite my "smallness". In attempting to decipher the semantics of the terms "Revelation, Inspiration, and Hermeneutics" and the various schools of thought, it is clear that the God of the universe and beyond is very intentional in His pursuit of creation as a source of communication and relation. He did not simply create us and remove Himself from our space leaving us to ourselves, but desires to engage in community, hence "Emmanuel, God with us".
What we fail to recognize is in fact the magnitude of this grace. Even in the Garden of Eden, grace was extended to Adam and Eve in that after sin, the Creator God desired our fellowship. So then, as I consider the word "theology" and come to understand it as "God-talk", I find myself rethinking the notion of being called a theologian. Am I truly a theologian as it is God who initiates the conversation and really does all the talking? God reveals Himself to His creation and if I am to understand that revelation, does it not require a stillness and an inclined ear/heart on my part.
So far, this material has been fascinating in the sense of beginning to truly grasp the fact that God through Jesus Christ seeks to integrate in and reconstitute my environment. Therefore, as I study His Word and become familiar with His character and person, not only is He revealed more clearly, but I am revealed more clearly. I am a sinner saved by grace!
The fact that God is leading us doesn’t mean we have a full understanding. We must continue to pray for illumination. We need a spirit of humility and recognize that it’s not just academic technique for an intellectual perception, but rather understanding that the Scriptures has a transforming element. Thus, evidence of a hermeneutical understanding is a transformed life. But the sad reality is that so many of us are failing to even study the Scriptures and thus it loses its novelty and it becomes as bland as rice without salt. How in the world then are we to grab hold and experience a truly fulfilling existence, when it wane in the balance of our lives? Does God not merit our full attention? Is He not worth our complete devotion?
On the other hand, we can know much about what the bible teaches without being really acquainted with the God of the bible. Moreover, we can have all the right hermeneutical moves but yet possess no real experience with the God we seek to “analyze”. Our relationship to God through the person of Jesus Christ is a living organism and profits us nothing if we continue to search the Scriptures without an intent to be transformed by it! Therefore, in order for us to discover and journey through our walk in Christ we essentially need to acknowledge the life He extends to us via this relationship as expressed in nature, Scripture, and the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is the central theme of Scripture and is thus the final authority. While it is very possible for us to learn from extra-biblical sources, the road must always lead us back to the God of Scripture. who interfaced with us through a divine-human interlude.
On the role of angels in hermeneutics (2).
I also was quite astonished while reading that chapter.
Somehow I had a strong conviction that only God can read our hearts and has access to our deep thoughts. I assumed, that Devil and angels, while effectively applying their profound understanding of human nature are banned to enter our inner spirit, unless a person would willingly reject God’s protection.
I remember reading from E.G. White about the ability of the good and fallen angels to surround humans with light or darkness, faith or doubts and despair, but I thought of it as the external influence, that doesn’t cross the threshold of our hearts.
So, that chapter has evoked my interest to study if the Bible and E. G. White talk about any divine firewall provided by God for our protection.
There is another very curious detail I found in the commentaries of E. G. White regarding the connection between the Holy Spirit and the angels.
In the vision to the prophet Zachariah the menora was shown, which was connected to the two olive-trees that supplied oil for it, representing the work of the Holy Spirit. “Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit' Says the LORD of hosts” (Zach 4). And then, answering Zachariah’s question about who are those two olive trees, the angel said: “These are the two anointed ones, who are standing by the Lord of the whole earth."
E.G. White, commenting this vision says: “The anointed ones standing by the Lord of the whole earth have the position once given to Satan as covering cherub. By the holy beings surrounding His throne, the Lord keeps up a constant communication with the inhabitants of the earth.”
In another place she says: “From the holy ones that stand in God's presence His Spirit is imparted to the human instrumentalities who are consecrated to His service. The mission of the two anointed ones is to communicate to God's people that heavenly grace which alone can make His word a lamp to the feet and a light to the path. "Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, saith the Lord of hosts." Zechariah 4:6. {COL 408.1}
So, there is another link in God’s revelation I had no idea about ☺
To Viola:
I appreciate your passion in regards to the person of the Holy Spirit. He indeed is an integral part of the Divine and too often we reduce Him to a mere gust of "wind". In some sense, we are even afraid of allowing Him to express freely His person in our midst for fear of other manifestations. Could it be that we're not as free as the Son declared we could be through Him by our neglect of the very nature of the Holy Spirit which He promised?
To JCoke (1st Reflection):
Well put, "If we lose sight of God in our quest for knowledge then we have lost sight of what is truly important." Is not God who declares "You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart." (Jer. 29:13)? But somehow, we're searching for Him simply to prove a point and not for a true heart conversion and transformational overhaul of our characters. What's important at the end of the day is that there is less of me and more of Christ. Filling my head with knowledge about Him while not allowing the Holy Spirit to fill me with Him is a lose/lose battle. Thanks for your reflection.
Reflection # 2
I’m very grateful to God for the class discussion we had today. I really appreciate the way God has been guiding Dr. Hanna and all of you, guys, in sharing your insights and questions.
Today I was blessed with two very significant discoveries.
First, the explanation of Dr. Hanna about the ability of God to reach people, (which goes beyond the traditional circles of revelation that people use to exclude others out of the area of God’s grace), helped me to understand the DNA of the eternal gospel. This DNA makes easier to detach the essence of the gospel message from the incrustations of any religious tradition, including the Adventist one.
So, the gospel in a nutshell is “God is salvation.”
Able saw it in a sacrificial lamb.
Abraham understood it too. “This same covenant [the first one with Adam] was renewed to Abraham in the promise, "In thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed" Genesis 22:18. This promise pointed to Christ. So Abraham understood it (see Galatians 3:8, 16), and he trusted in Christ for the forgiveness of sins. It was this faith that was accounted unto him for righteousness. {PP 370.3}
The same gospel preached Paul, Luther, E. G. White and, hopefully, each one of us.
It is true, that everyone who believes that God is salvation, even if the name Jesus is spelled differently in his culture, or sounds suspicious, or unfamiliar at all, is saved by God’s grace without the requirement to join any particular tradition and even “skip” some “circles” of God’s revelation.
The second insight came as a reflection on the question of Paul regarding “the light” and Dr. Hanna’s explanation of it.
I recognized that bigger light is always relative to the decreasing of the light that still exists in the world from the beginning.
For example,
As soon as people began loosing knowledge of God (dusking time), God had chosen Abraham to rise up His own people, His church (bigger light, or forgotten old one). However, in the lifetime of Abraham still there were people who worshiped true God (Melchizedek).
As soon as the chain of the oral tradition was lost, (even more dusking time), God has provided bigger light - the written word.
As soon as people began doubt the fact of creation (very dark time), (The origin of species, 1859), God has raised the movement (bigger light). There still are those, who believe in creation, but the majority of Christians sees it as insanity. And if we accept theistic evolution (i.e. death came into the world not as the result of sin, but always has been a part of God’s original plan of the progressive evolution) what would become with the gospel? Who is Jesus then? May be today many other Christians have Jesus, but will they tomorrow? And, if “yes” than what kind of Jesus? The one who is salvation or just J-E-S-U-S?
And the issue of creation is just one of many others that were implanted by God into the SDA movement.
So, today my motivation to share the gospel and the “bigger light” with other people got a boost.
Thanks, brothers.
Reflection #2
I read chapter 4, revelation and inspiration by Fernando Canale. He pointed out very interesting things about revelation and inspiration. It can be different, divisive and difficult if each one of us has different understanding of inspiration of scripture. For me, personally, I never had problem with revelation. I believed that God shows something special to his people through various ways, and it was just simple to me. However, when I think about inspiration, it wasn’t easy to say that someone or some writing is inspired by God. It was helpful to see the basic idea to the different concepts of inspiration in the history. First of all, Dr, Canale mentioned “God-Breathed” concept which we dealt with Dr Hanna in class, and he also mentioned about Peter’s term “pheromenoi” and pointed out that the Holy Spirit is the one who leads us to understand. I liked his statement on page 49, “The statement of Paul and Peter teach rather significantly that God is the author of Scripture, of all Scripture. It was interesting to see the verbal inspiration, and Encounter Revelation. I have to admit that people tried hard to figure out what real scripture is, but I believe that even this process, we need the Holy Spirit in order to have biblical way of understanding. Later on, he mentioned the Adventist discussion, and he mentioned “thought Inspiration”. Dr. Canale finally, summarized 10 elements which we need to have in order to have biblical model of Revelation and inspiration. It seems like real challenge for us to determine which model we are going to employ because we have the gift of prophecy. This inspiration issue always makes us face the challenge. I felt that we need God’s revelation and His guidance to be inspired and even for the interpretation, we need the Holy Spirit in order to have right understanding of the bible.
I read the chapter from the Cosmic Christ of Scripture, chapter 4, are Ellen G. White’s writings biblical?. It always makes me very interesting that the author always tried to point the scripture, but people who read her writings tend to focus on her writings only. Dr, Hanna continuously states that even Ellen White’s inspiration issue has to be solved by the scripture. The scripture is the only way to distinguish the divine inspiration. He also applied same method to Ellen White’s writings, to prove her writing is biblical. And all the method that he used to examine the writings of Ellen White, shows that Ellen White’s writing itself is biblical, and we need same spirit to have better understanding.
Throughout the class discussion, I continuously discovered that how much we have to study the scripture not only as a Christian, but also as the spiritual leader of people. I saw the harmony between revelations and inspirations. I really liked the discussion that we had today about subjective and objective method, and it was really fascinating to see how I was blinded when I shared the message. The question “is God subjective? Or objective only” had great impact for me to think about myself.
I wonder how I am self centered to approach people, even God is approaching me, and help me to understand Him. God used our language in order to give us reveal him (revelation), and he gives the Holy Spirit to interpret and understand right. How much I need to be humble myself, and try to use people's language to introduce Jesus Christ.
Comment to Paul's refelection #2
I really like your illustration about the primacy by using peanut butter or jelly whatever, I got your point, and it helped me to understand more. I thought it was little bit complicated but when you mentioned everythings work together, but each element has its own characteristic, I was just got the my own idea (hope my understanding is right...). don't be worry, I really like your passion on this class my brother!~
thanks for sharing!
Comment to Owen's refelection #2
I must read 2nd chapter in that book! I chose 4th chapter, but I think I need to read the 2nd one. anyway, when I was reading your comment about the involvement of Angel, I really like your insight like, Satan was the head of angels, and he fall, and he is able to deceive us, how about heavenly angels? what they can do? that question was so interesting, and remind me Daniel when he prayed, then the angel apeared him and gave him interpretation(even though he didn't understand, but it was truth!). I am kind of interested so much on this topic. Thank God he works so hard not by himself, but with the angels.
thanks for your insight!
Week 2 review
This week I think you can agree with me has been very intellectually stimulating. Whether it was conversation (class dialog/teaching) on objective or subjective or some other topic, I feel like have been challenged to reevaluate where I am at in my understanding of everything that I do. Through a different view that will be filtered through what the bible teaches.
This week besides reading some of Dr. Hanna’s book I read the first chapter of Understanding scripture. Being able to see this brief broad picture of where interpretation came from has helped me see that as we talked about today in class (and in other classes) we cannot come to our understanding and say ‘this it’. We come with such great presuppositions when we come to our understanding of scripture.
I think of the Pharisees in the time of Christ, they remembered their past and how their disobedience lead them into captivity, thus they were very legalistic in their interpretation as well as they’re practice of what scriptures said. They you have those that were more Hellenistic (in Greek culture), they adopted allegorical interpretations because it fit with their past understanding with Plato.
What do you think?... do we react to our past experience and this experience becomes our presupposition? How do we not swing from one extreme to the other?
I also see in these Pharisees the tendency to take the letter of the law without reflecting or viewing the spirit of the law. How can we guard against this as well? Both presuppositions as well as this letter v. spirit conversations are very close I think to the heart of what we need to address in our church.
I am speaking from my point of view here because of some self-reflection that I have had recently. I am very good at seeing the letter of the law and feeling good at being able to check it off the ‘list’. At the same time I do feel I have been raised (and would hope that our church does understand something of the spirit of the law) with an understanding that there is more meaning in the words I read in scripture besides their literal meaning. I am excited as I come to a fuller understanding of what it truly means to follow the spirit of the law in a more comprehensive way in my life. One thing I struggle with is that I am presupposed to certain thoughts and tendencies that do not allow me (or that I don’t address and come to understand) to follow the spirit of the law. In our class discussions I remember us discussing things that we as Adventists tend to do and I resonated with them… at this moment I can’t think of an example.
As I read more of the chapter on the history of biblical interpretation it mentioned avoiding our reliance on our presuppositions on the text itself. This has been a challenge in the past for those who have lead in our church and it will continue. But I am glad for the opportunity to look at this topic objectively (just kidding Dr. Hanna… ). But I am valuing this class that is challenging me to wrestle with my own pattern of how I go about interpreting scripture. And if I didn’t take anything else away… its keeping the bible as the foundation of it all. Understanding my presupposition to better be able to hear truth from the word.
Response to Sehyun Sean Lee’s Reflection #2
Thank you for sharing on your reading of the chapter by Canale. As a result I will make this the next chapter I read. You mentioned the thought that it can be divisive and difficult when we each have different understandings of inspiration. It seems to me that this is a key reason for such diversity of denominations as well as beliefs within denominations. It just amazes me how many people want to call themselves Christians when they don’t even believe in the Bible as the inspired and authoritative Word of God. There seems to be a natural desire within us to twist Scripture to suit what we prefer. This is easy to see in others but I guess we need to check ourselves here also.
I especially appreciated your comments on how much we as spiritual leaders need to study Scripture, and also on the need for us to be humble when communicating with others. The idea of us being spiritual leaders is humbling in itself IF we keep in perspective how great God is and how important this work is that we are called to, when compared with our finiteness. As long as we keep coming to Scripture with the correct heart I think the more we learn the more humble we’ll become, because we’ll see His greatness.
Response to Ryan Whitehead’s Week 2 Review
I read your question about whether we react to our past experience and allow this to influence our presuppositions. I have to agree that this would be the natural tendency and we probably do this more often than we realise. I’m starting to learn the importance of coming to the Scripture and asking, “What does the text actually say?” rather than, “What is my existing understanding of this text?” Hopefully this approach will begin to be a safeguard here. It also gives reason to go back again and again to the Bible when I realise that there is going to be more to it than my existing understanding.
Like you I also find it is often easy to see the letter of the law and miss the spirit. One thing that has led me (at times) to try and see the spirit of the law is when I see someone being harshly judged by the letter of the law and I find myself wanting to understand a way to show more of the love of Christ without undermining His law. So if we read the law with a love for others and the understanding that it comes from a God of love this might help drive us more in the right direction. God loves people and he gave His laws for our benefit so the spirit of the law shouldn’t be unnecessarily arbitrary or harsh even if the letter appears that way. The desire to discover the letter should be fuelled largely by our love for others and our desire to represent God appropriately. Could it be that when we apply only the letter of the law we are actually providing more support for the Devil in his accusation of God as being unjust?
Reflection #2
Johnathan Coker
First of all I would like to talk about the comment made by Viola earlier this week. She expressed her opinion that the key to fixing the problems in our church is the youth. The vast majority of elderly people in our church have closed their minds to considering new truth. Our problem is then how do we change what we know needs to be changed. The answer is our youth. They are the impressionable ones with open minds, which will one-day lead our church. Why then don’t we poor more of our resources into youth ministries? I have always thought this but I have never heard anyone else say it, so thank you Viola for sharing that in class, I really appreciated it. Youth ministries are one of my biggest passions. I really think it is possible to change our church and the world if we start with our youth.
After attending class this week and reading the assigned passages, I have realized that the more I know about theology, the Bible, and God the less I really know about theology, the Bible, and God. I have often wondered why it is that God makes some things in the Bible and life for that matter so difficult to understand. My revelation is that God created us with the ability to critically think about things. He doesn’t want for us to stay on baby food our entire life. He expects us to learn and grow so that we can handle grown up food. How can we expect learning about the creator of the universe to be simple? He is an incredible being capable of love beyond our understanding, so of course some things will be more difficult to understand. The challenge, I think, is to be able to realize how powerful and complex our God is, while at the same time remembering how simple He can be. He is alpha and omega and yet He sits next to you in class or in the car.
Retaining this understanding is important when studying the Bible too. My favorite illustration was from the beginning of the third chapter of The Cosmic Christ of Scripture. According to The Cosmic Christ of Scripture, “We often treat the Bible like a child instead of treating it like the word of our divine Father.” Some concepts in the Bible seem simple, as though they can simply be taken for face value such as the Ten Commandments. However we know that “Thou shall not kill” is extended beyond killing someone physically. We can kill someone with our words too. I think this further proves my point about God being both simple and complex. In order to have the whole truth, to know God completing we must allow for Him to be both by your side and holding the universe in His hands. I think things can be simple and complex at the same time.
The thing that struck me out of our reading from Understanding Scripture: An Adventist Approach was the part that talked the Cosmic Conflict and Hermeneutics. This section talked about the attempts of Satan and evil angels to redirect interpretation of the Bible. I suppose I have always known that Satan is behind the misunderstandings of the Bible, but it didn’t hit home until I read it out of the book. I can see now better than before the importance of prayer before reading the Bible. It has always seemed like a good idea but now it seems essential. Human error alone is enough to impress me to call on God before I open His word but realizing the other side is hard at work to make me miss interpret the scriptures has really opened my eyes. We have to be on guard against the enemy.
Ryan I love you question "How do we keep from swing from one extreme to the other?" It is something I have spent a great deal of time considering. It is human nature to cling to one extreme or the other. I think that the only way to over come is to replace our human nature with God's. It is not any easy answer but the best ones usually aren't.
To Viola:
I really enjoyed the discussion we had in class about light as well. I never made the connection of the loss of light to God's continual effort to bring bigger light into our lives. You are right, God has made continuous efforts through out the entire history of this world to bring the bigger light to us.
To jcoke
Jonathan, it is so cool that God stirs your passion for youth ministry!!!
Coming back to our discussion about facilitating changes in our church I should confess that this experience helped me to recognize ineffectiveness of the exclusive language, even if it helps to make a point.
I believe that for considering any change in the church it is necessary to understand that it is much more complicated an issue than generational differences. “Conservatives” or “liberals”, old folks or youth, traditional or contemporary, all such opposites are the derivatives of the exceptional “either/or” mentality, Dr. Hanna is helping us to debunk.
Talking about changes it is evident that there is much more space for creativity in building a new construction from ground zero, than in remodeling an existing one. It’s almost impossible to escape mess, clouds of dust, some sense of devastation and even injury during a reconstruction. But I doubt that it’s God’s purpose for anyone to die or to get injured under the heap of ruins. In this case it is much better to leave an old and plant something new.
When Jesus had to face similar challenges he used to say: “No one puts a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment; for the patch pulls away from the garment, and the tear is made worse. Nor do they put new wine into old wineskins, or else the wineskins break, the wine is spilled, and the wineskins are ruined. But they put new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved.”
I really like His attitude: to preserve both.
“Every scribe (or an MDIV student (according my crippled hermeneutics) instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old.”
An old building under good care becomes an antique treasure, a local attraction that has its own value and virtue, suitable for a particular historical situation. In a similar way each one of us is a reflection of God’s thought fixed in time, and earlier or latter we’ll all become in our earthly life quite inadequate to present reality, at least for a younger generation.
When my time will come to save residue of energy on changes in order to survive, Lord, please, send on my way that kind of a scribe. ☺
Reflection Response #2- Owen Ellis- ‘On the role of Angels in hermeneutics’
Owen, I appriciate your observations on angels being involved in opening to us more of what God would want us to understand. When you first mentioned how Satan puts thoughts in our heads I was at ‘first response’ thinking that this was not right. But we do live in a world where he (Satan) is in control of our world. But I loved the thought so much about how you talked about how our angels (unfallen) are working for our good. I think of just a few minutes ago when I was reading the Word. To think that I have a helper in my heavely angel- Awsome!
Your statement- ‘Could it be that they, like us, are blessed by the experience of helping to reveal the hidden things of God to others?’ I think Owen that you could write a book on this thought! Its great!
I think its right that the angels take it seriously (their work) and that yes… I/we should take our work seriously as well.
I respect your thoughts on this topic. They seem very biblically based and well thought out. Thank you for sharing
eflection response #2- Johnathan Coker-
Johnathan, I affirm your passion for youth in our church. And investing in them is something that needs to happen. I do know many who are presently working with youth in the leadership of our church. They love youth and have the same passion you expressed in your reflection. If we could partner with them to continue to grow God’s family! That would be great!
I feel what your saying about finding out there is so much more to learn! And that our God is ‘easy’ to know but in the same breath ‘not easy’ to know… We serve an amazing God. Thank you for bringing out some points that I was able to reflect on for a few minutes.
I read Dr. Baldwin’s article and Dr. Hasel’s article, those articles just blow my mind because of my humanly thought. How limited I am! And How blessed I am to have a access to the word of God, and learning to know how to get to know the original meaning of passages in the scripture! Not only the Scripture itself, but also I felt I have so many different access to different resources those give me the accurate message of God.
When I read Dr. Baldwin’s article, the question that he asked made me interesting, “can our fallen reason be used to interpret the scripture?” I never thought about that before, and I never asked this question before. I always tried to find the answers that make sense to me. When we had discussion yesterday about natural Law and Moral Law, and I was asking this question that why do we use the term “break” to God?. the reason why I had that question was I thought we should not put our God in our understanding box, and forcing Him to make everything understandable. When I see Dr. Baldwin’s question, I saw exactly where I am, because I was the one who read and interpret the Scripture I-centered. The good news is God can transform my heart and mind to be adequate to understand the scripture.
I read 2 Chronicles, and the chapter where I read kept mentioning about being humble to the voice of God, and that just remind me how I need to be when I approach to the word of God. I agree with that we need to use our reason to reveal the message of God from the scripture but I believed that our human reason is enough. I read the Cosmic Christ of Scripture, and the chapter I read, Dr, Hanna mentioned the harmony of the human nature and divine nature. I believed that not only the hermeneutics, but through out our practice of faith, and journey we need to be harmonized with God, and that’s how it works.
I also read about presuppositions that we have as sinners, and the presuppositions that we need to have as children of God who approach to God’s word. It just impressed me that the presupposition that I have is not the philosophical ideas, but the attitude toward to God. Dr. Hasel applied all spirituality based elements to biblical interpretation, and reasoning by the Scripture. I could see how biblical method works in his writing.
I imagine when we get to heaven, I believe that God will explain the original meaning of the scripture not only to the Adventist, but all people who saved by grace, and I think all of us have to admit that we do not fully understand but it was enough for us to understand by our human frailty. There are many issues in our day, 24 hour creation day, the nature of Jesus Christ, understanding miracle, and when we approach to these issues, what sort of presupposition that we have in our minds? And also, I want to ask question that does God need to give the all answers by human way of understanding? I believe that our humanly way of thinking needs to be work with the divine inspiration in order to have close access and understanding of God.
But still, this question just hanging on my mind. “Can God break the Law?” what does it mean?
To Viola and John
I absolutely agree about putting more into Youth Ministry. We have to be so much more aware that the Youth will soon be leaving our church after their college experience, for various reasons. So, our money, time and energy needs to be diverted from wherever our focus is now, and start looking at Evangelism for Youth in the postmodern culture we live in. Otherwise the average age of Seventh-day Adventists will only rise higher and higher, now its in the 50s...what will it be next year? 60s?
To Ryan and "presupposition,"
I found a really cool video on our Cosmic Christ Website...its one of the first video's called "Are we born with blank slate minds?" by Steven Pinker, it would be a good reference for you. I just wonder bro, can I ever come to the Scriptures and say, "Lord, I am forgetting everything I ever learned from childhood about You, I want to learn afresh, but this time only from the Word of God." Can I ever learn something truly without coming to it with a bias? Will we ever think truly "rationally?" simply based on the facts presented? I hope you figure this out for me...
Filip
Response to Violeta’s Reflection #2
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the discussion that included the essence of the gospel. I also appreciated the discussion on salvation and its availability even to those who haven’t heard of the name of Jesus or who may know God by another name. While I certainly do not hold to the idea that all religions lead to the same God (they are crafty efforts of the Devil to sidetrack people from discovering the true God and from responding to His witness in their hearts), I see Paul teaching in Romans 2 that as long as a person is acknowledging God in their heart and responding to whatever light they have they are saved. This salvation is still only because of what Christ has done. Imagine what it will be like for them in heaven when they meet Jesus and learn of what He has done in order that they might be there. C. S. Lewis certainly had an idea of this as is illustrated in a scene in his final Chronicle of Narnia, The Last Battle, where a soldier who had lived a good life while at the same time being loyal to the only god he knew (a false god) makes it into heaven. The way Lewis depicts the scene is food for much theological discussion. We need to be very careful in limiting who God might save based on a simplified reading of one or two texts. I'm glad that I was reminded of this in class.
Response to Jonathan’s Reflection #2
Jonathan, thanks for your thoughts on how as we learn more of theology we discover how little we know. Reading your comments reminded me of the words of Paul in Eph 3:17-19: “[I pray] that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend, with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height – to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge that you may be filled with all the fullness of God” (NKJV). Not only is God so grand that we will never come to a full knowledge of Him, but His love is so fast that it can never be fully explored. I really appreciate the following Ellen White comment on this: “If it were possible for created beings to attain to a full understanding of God and His works, then, having reached this point, there would be for them no further discovery of truth, no growth in knowledge, no further development of mind or heart. God would no longer be supreme; and men, having reached the limit of knowledge and attainment, would cease to advance. Let us thank God that it is not so. God is infinite; in Him are “all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.” Col. 2:3. And to all eternity men may be ever searching, ever learning, and yet they can never exhaust the treasures of His wisdom, His goodness, and His power” (5T, 703)”. Thinking on this is humbling, and also encouraging – no need of ours, physical or spiritual, falls beyond what He has the resource to supply.
Response to Sehyun Sean Lee (7/21)
Thanks for sharing with your final question: “‘Can God break the Law?’ what does it mean?”
This is a mind-bending question but I’ve really enjoyed our discussions so far and I really do think Dr Hanna is on the right track. God’s law is really a reflection/revelation of His character and who He is. Therefore, since the Lord does not change (Mal 3:6) His character does not change. In other words it would be outside of His character to behave in ways that were contrary to His law, including the laws that He has set up to govern nature. So perhaps when it appears that He has broken some apparent law of nature God is merely invoking another law that we don’t yet know about. An illustration could be the way the Wright brothers invoked the law of aerodynamics that were not understood by many, to apparently break the law of gravity. Both of these laws always existed and acted together as a unified whole. I suspect our thinking is rather one-dimensional, or simplistic, whereas God works in many dimensions, but always in accordance with the sum of those laws that govern the whole universe. We also tend to separate the physical or natural laws from the spiritual but I believe that for God these are all part of one Law that He always abides by. When we sinned He could not simply do away with the law that sin brings death. His solution to sin was to fulfil that law in Christ and also invoke other aspects of the Law that allow Him to give us new lives and save us for eternity.
Reflection 3
Firstly I want to mention how much I am enjoying our classes together. I’m starting to wish our group could have met for a full semester rather than just a month. I sit there listening to everyone’s comments and appreciate how much each of you know and what we can learn from each other. Praise God for this.
Violeta: Thanks for your reflections on the role of angels. I think that what you said about the Devil and his angels being banned from entering our spirit is correct. I believe that while only God can read our thoughts (though the Devil can reader body language), and while we choose who controls us, other beings are able to suggest thoughts and bring impressions. “Satan is ever seeking to impress and control the mind, and none of us are safe except as we have a constant connection with God” (4T, 542). Further; “Satan takes control of every mind that is not decidedly under the control of the Spirit of God” (TM, 79). As I’ve been reading a little on the topic of angels I’ve been impressed, and filled with thankfulness to God, as I learn of the ways in which God provides for our protection in this battle. Praise God, we are not alone!
During my research on angels I discovered the following statement that amazed and encouraged me: “Do you humbly, heartily make known your wants to your heavenly Father? If so, angels mark your prayers, and if these prayers have not gone forth from feigned lips, when you are in danger of unconsciously doing wrong and exerting an influence which will lead others to do wrong, your guardian angel will be by your side, prompting you to a better course, choosing your words for you, and influencing your actions” (3T 363, 364). I did not realise that they could have such influence over us. This should not surprise me considering my belief in the influences of the Devil and evil angels. So the unfallen angels, as the agents of God, do His work in the earth, even working in us, choosing our words and influencing our actions. While the Devil and his agents do this by force, God never forces Himself on us.
More specifically on hermeneutics, I’m considering the question, can the angels guide and influence our thoughts as we study God’s word? Based on Ellen White’s understanding I believe the answer is an unqualified “Yes!” Then follows the question, does the Bible support this? I believe that there is very strong implicit Biblical support for this. I’m still clarifying my rationale, but here are some thoughts to date: God’s angels are ministers to us (Heb 1:14), God gives His angels to keep us in all our ways (Ps 91:11 – am I stretching the context here or must this be applied only to physical protection?), God is even more concerned about our spiritual safety than physical (Mat 10:28), angels take a passionate interest in our salvation (Luk 15:10, 1 Pet 1:12), a correct understanding of truth is important to our salvation (Jon 8:32; 17:17,19), we accept that fallen angels can heavily influence the human (many Bible examples of full possession), therefore would it not be Biblical to accept that unfallen angels have similar abilities. Based on these understandings, surely we can confidently deduce that unfallen angels, as agents of the Holy Spirit, are able to influence us significantly in all matters of life, including with our understanding of the truths in Scripture.
What do you think? Is this a “proof text” conclusion with holes, or is it the result of a more holistic reading of Scripture. Is this something that is only implicit in Scripture and that we can’t hold in confidence unless we also have confidence in the writings of Ellen White? Or could we say that this truth is already clearly taught by Scripture and that Ellen White simply drew our attention to it?
Personally, while I initially accepted what Ellen White said on this topic due to my belief in her writings, I am coming to the point where I may no longer need to lean on her authority to believe this with confidence, as I am seeing it to be very more clearly taught in Scripture than I’d thought.
I can easily say that the topic of miracles was the most difficult concept for me to come to terms with in the class. After I spent some time thinking about it however it seemed to make more sense. I suppose the biggest problem I had was that it seemed to make God’s miracles somehow smaller. It felt like it put God inside of a small box, as if He was not capable of any great miraculous phenomenon. However the truth is even greater than that. Our God and all His power and spender is in fact capable of stepping outside of His law but choose not to. He chooses to work within the boundaries He has set up. This only attests to His perfect character. Here is a being that could have wiped out the entire human race or not even created Lucifer. Instead He allowed us to make our own choice to follow Him and when we turned away He decided to save us. He didn’t simply snap His fingers, in order to save us He work through His own laws. This tells me that God would sooner sacrifice His own son before He broke His own laws. There are still some parts that I do not completely understand but I will continue to study and grow until that day comes when He can explain it all to me in person.
In my reading of The Cosmic Christ of Scripture I came across the section that talks about Christ being the Theme of the Bible. This seemed like such a normal and accepted idea that I almost missed it in my reading. There are times when we study things and come across something we have heard before and we miss the new truth that could be in it. It goes in one ear and right out the other but this time the illustration caught me attention. The modern day spiritual leaders of the time knew the Bible. Why then was it that they did not recognize Christ when He came to them? Is it possible to become so bogged down into the text that you miss the theme of the text? We have to guard ourselves and make sure that when we are studying the revelations of God that their light is guiding us to a greater understand of Him. I haven’t heard a lot of sermon about how dangerous the Bible can be if it is misused. We see how dangerous it is when me misinterpret nature. There is an entire divide within our church over the proper interpretation of nature. How much greater can the divide become if we allow ourselves to be thrown off by the Scriptures? Everything, absolutely everything must point back to God. It was the example that Christ gave us. He continually pointed towards His heavenly Father.
In the book Understanding Scripture I read about the topic of presuppositions. This is a topic that we have discussed in some detail in class but when I read through it this time, I found myself thinking about how difficult it is to keep a balance between everything in life. I have found that God likes to keep me in a place where I feel at least a little bit uncomfortable. I never have all that I need to feel completely secure. Whether it is a bill I am not sure how to pay for or an idea that I can’t understand. I think God likes to keep me on my toes so that I will depend more on Him and less on myself. It has been my experience that people who have all they need tend not to depend on God as much. After all who needs God when you have everything thing under control?
To: Sehyun Sean LEe
I was really interested by what you said about how we need to make sure we stay in harmony with Christ as we read the scriptures. This is a major concern for anyone that is studying the Scriptures. I think we would all have a better understanding of what we read in the Bible if we first asked if how we are interpreting what we are reading is in harmony with Christ. There are so many problems that we face as a church and as individuals that would simply become none factorable if we asked ourselves that question first.
To: Viola
I really like your illustration of an old building under good care become an antique or treasure. This and what it represents is very true. There are many great leaders within our church. Men and Women of gravitas and faith that have much to pass on to the next generation. I wish is that we can train the coming generation(s) to have many more in their number with equal if not greater amounts of wisdom and understand to pass. Everyone has a mentor or someone that was shaped and effected them. All of us have a story about someone that has helped us to know and understand God better. I would never want anyone to think that I am completely negative towards all of our elders. I only want to see less of the bad and more of the good and the youth is the best way I know how to do that.
Blog 2: Evangelism in a postmodern world based on a correct understanding of Jesus, yet with caution to legalism
I don’t know how many of you were inspired Dr. Hanna’s model of evangelism to postmoderns as he presented in class, but I just found it to be so freeing to hear someone who is willing to do whatever it takes to bring this generation to a saving relationship with Jesus. We cannot push our churches beyond the limits of their ability to cope with the shift in thinking towards evangelism, but we must not be afraid to challenge them to rise up to a broader understanding. Each leader must know their church intimately to know what these limits are. If the leader is unsure of what the evangelistic method limits are than I would suggest: 1) throwing out a question in conversation with several groups about a more “postmodern” method of evangelism that hasn’t been tried in that church or group and see how they respond, 2) teach about the history of early Adventists and how their ideas were quite radical for their time, then ask people what they think about that, and how that might apply to our day, and 3) preach a sermon on the supposed “radical” ways of ministry, and evangelism in particular as practiced by Jesus for his time period. Personally I don’t think that people fully read into the life of Christ as presented in the gospels, and than applying that to our current day. Overlooking the application of the daily life of Christ in our day is cause to so loss of freedom that could be experience, and freedom that is in Christ! Preaching done through the eyes of Jesus really awakens people to understand that they are not confined to their presuppositions or that of their group, or church, or denomination, and what they thought Jesus was like but that they can actually study the life of Christ as revealed in the Scriptures and allow that to speak for itself! Our ideas about Christ have been a hindrance, because they have been based on our presuppositions rather then truth.
Cont. filup005 post:
Jesus talked with a woman who was caught in adultery (Jn. 7.53-8.11) and he didn’t condemn her for her way of life, but called her to a new understanding, he raised her to new level of living. So, we too can and should to the same with our hermeneutics, we should use them to draw people to Jesus rather than condemning them. Like I said in my previous blog, if our hermeneutics are simply to protect and benefit our personal presuppositions, then we have an incorrect understanding of what hermeneutics are for. Also, our hermeneutics should not be so set in stone that they don’t allow us to interact with our culture. Rather they should be broader, not the kind of broad that is relativistic, but the kind of broad that sees that “my way is not the only way.” When I say this I am simply calling for a hermeneutic that allows for openness, and dialogue. Not to say we will change our mind about what we believe is right (although it is possible), but that we are not so close-minded and fearful, that talking with a non-Christian would cause us to stumble and fall into a life of sinful living. I bring all of this up to say, it should be our goal to look for as many ways to interact with those who do not know Christ, or those who don’t have a relationship with Jesus in this postmodern era as possible.
I heard several months ago from Pastor Japhet, the chaplain for missions at Andrews University that, Seventh-day Adventists used to be number one in Youth Ministry methods in all denominations, fifty years ago. Why did we loose our influence on other Christians in how ministry is done? I believe it is because we became set, “set” in a legalistic sense. Set, in a way that meant only one way was possible, or else we were doomed, or damned, or headed for Babylon. (This is my presupposition as to what happened). I am not trying to advocate a pendulum swing that ignores that work of those who have tried to “protect” our church from “worldly” influence, but I want to help correct it, bring it back into perspective, without falling into legalism on the other end.
Filip
Response to post by filup005 (7/23/2010)
Thanks for sharing a number of great thoughts in your above posting. Perhaps the one I appreciated the most was the reminder that the purpose of hermeneutics should be to draw people to Jesus and not to condemn them. The reminder that they are not simply to protect and benefit our presuppositions was also great – something we need to double-check ourselves on regularly. It is easy to forget this and use them defensively rather than as a means of discovering Christ. That was also an insightful comment on youth ministry and how our church used to be leading in this field. Our youth leaders and ministers today have a huge challenge. Perhaps one of the problems is that we compartmentalise things too much as a church and have left youth ministry up to a small group of overworked leaders rather than ensuring that we are all involved in it.
Response to Jonathan’s post (7/23/2010)
Jonathan, you mentioned that you haven’t heard a lot of sermons about how dangerous the Bible can be if it is misused. That caused me to wonder if I’ve ever heard a sermon on this topic. Could it be that while we all say we believe in the Bible we are not always sure what that means? If we are discovering how much we have to learn about how we read the Bible, including an awareness of our own presuppositions, it is likely that many more are in this situation. I’d love to see your first sermon on this topic when you write it. I think it would be easier to show the dangers of misreading scripture in a single sermon than to present a clear understanding of how to avoid this – but we must do both. Hopefully our journey here will help us in this area. I’ve really enjoyed this class for the insights gained so far, though I’m not sure I’m quite ready to write that sermon myself.
God Bless.
Blog # 3:
Reflecting on the way God has arranged the past week of my life, I’ve noticed that the most valuable realization of the week came from the thoughts Dr. Hanna shared with us in the class in regard to the “unbrokenness” of God’s law. I guess it is the first time in my life when some pieces of the “law puzzle” have gotten into one clear fragment and now I can see that my whole picture of God requires some rearrangement. It’s not as everything has suddenly clicked in my mind, but this shift has provoked a chain reaction that is still in the process.
There are just few insights I’m able to formulate so far:
• Coming from the country where law always has been just a toy in the hands of the ruling top, I didn’t recognize how much this reality influenced my understanding of God’s law.
It’s funny, but the realization of the fact that God is not arbitrary in His judgment and actions, that the moral and natural laws are as permanent as God Himself is, even to the extend of His own Son’s death, and that even by performing “miracles” God doesn’t infringe the law, all those facts have increased sense of security and peace in me.
• I see now, that by transgressing the law I repudiate God, because He is the law. He cannot become someone who He is not. Trying to manipulate with the law I manifest that I do not appreciate God. I do not take seriously His principles and personality. I don’t accept Him as He is. And in fact I do not know Him. It is impossible to love God and not to love His law, as it is impossible to love a person, but hate his/her character and personality. I know that it sounds so trite, but this time it makes much more sense to me.
• If God’s law is just who He is, then His perception of any transgression of the law differs form mine. I don’t suffer because someone somewhere had stolen something. But I feel bad if I was robbed. For God every sin in the universe is against Him personally. He is deeply involved in every murder, rape, sickness, betrayal, because He sustains life of a murderer, a thief, a drug dealer. Every morning God Himself renews struggles of deadly sick, lonely, abused, or handicapped people. By doing that He prolongs His Own and our pain.
God’s love toward sinners may be measured by extend of His and mine sufferings. It means that any suffering in our life is in some sense redemptive. If God wouldn’t extend His suffering and the suffering of many generations before me, there wouldn’t be me. If I wouldn’t struggle the results of sin, there won’t be time for salvation of my grandchildren.
But, the measure of my pain is nothing in comparative with God’s struggles. People can rest in the first death, God can’t. Every day He has to go through endless crucifixions of His children.
Now the words of Jeremiah have acquired a new dimension for me:
“Because of the LORD’S great love we are not consumed,
for his compassions never fail.
They are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness.”
Lam 3:22,23
Comment on filip005post
Reading Filip’s post and Owen’s comment on the use of hermeneutics I was caught by realization that almost all products of our Adventist biblical research are defensive or apologetic in its basic premise. DARCOM is a bright example of it. The main method among students to pick up a topic for a research project is to find a controversial area where correctness of our beliefs was threatened by a different view. I don’t remember myself doing an academic research on something that was not controversial, just for the sake of learning something new about Jesus.
God, have mercy…
Response to Owen on filup005 post:
Owen I find it appalling that we simply delegate the responsibility of youth ministry to a specific group and expect them to do it all. Why don't churches collectively see that if we do not purposefully engage the young at all levels we will lose them, and sooner than later. We need more mentors. We need people who will stand up and say, I am not simply going to go to school and work, but I will give of myself to someone and ensure that they will be nurtured and directed by friendship, fun and, teaching faithfulness to Jesus. Ministry is simple when it deals with young people, (events are what get complicated), but ministry with the young is simply being a friend to them, and anyone can do that!
Response to Viola's comment,
I think my heart is about to stop simply thinking about what you said in your final comment. What have we done! We find ourselves in an apologetic mode at all times! What about studying about Jesus, instead of studying how to defend our doctrinal distinctives. "God have mercy" is right. Our love for Jesus must be greater than our love to be in the right. We must shield ourself with the Word against "foes" but if it isn't coated with Jesus, what is all for?
I too am touched by the words of Dr. Hanna in regard to the idea of "natural law" being distinctly part of who God is. I have never thought of it in such a way, and it has really made obedience in the Christian life so much more reasonable when viewed from God's perspective of natural law.
Response to Owen's post:
Owen, I’ve read the quotes in your post and now I’m puzzled. I do not know anymore if it is a good way to pray silently? If angels do not have direct access to our thoughts how would they know my petitions?
Jesus taught: “When you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.” But from the context it seems like he didn’t mean a silent prayer. May it be that by lack of out loud prayers I limit my communication with heaven?
Ryan Whitehead
Reflection 3
Presupposition:
Our worldview or focus on the world in which we live is made up of presuppositions. Through these presuppositions facts are gathered about the world around us. These facts that we gain create the worldview that we follow. For example; if you have a presupposition of Theism and scripture, than the way that you come to the facts in the world will be looked at different then if you came to them with say an evolutionary presupposition. Looking at things through the latter would cause you to view differently the facts of science, history, social sciences, and the supernatural world. Understanding this topic and reflecting on our own presuppositions is very important because how we interpret all that happens around us comes from presupposed ideas that we have gained in our lifetime. At times people might think that they come to an issue or topic with no presuppositions, but ‘no one is able to approach the biblical text with a blank mind.’ And as we attempt to do proper hermeneutics we must come to understand the presuppositions that we have when we come to the text. Not believing we have nothing that is affecting our understanding or decisions on a specific topic is misleading and dangerous.
In the spring of 2010 I took a class intensive called Worship and Music. This class besides the present hermeneutics class forced me to reflect, ponder and evaluate why I believed the way I did. Were the things that I was doing wrong? Where the conclusions I was coming too not bases on scripture? Now that I am taking hermeneutics class I see that what I was facing in this class was the presuppositions that I had set up for myself. I had told myself- this is how it is… But I am coming to realize and understand that most often ** when we come to some thing legalistically we are often basing these off of presuppositions that we have set up because of our upbringing and or our present understanding of ‘truth’. This doesn’t necessarily mean that it is THE truth.
As I think about this topic of coming to understand our own presuppositions I wonder if we do not deceive ourselves sometimes. Do we think we understand our presuppositions but some things that would help us come understanding everything better are hidden from ourselves. Today I was actually walking with a friend and we were talking about the expectations of SDA’s in regard to their tithe. I was saying things in reference to all ‘those’ SDA’s and my friend said- you have them! You have these expectations of what you want or are ‘entitled’ too because we pay tithe. This is a small example to a presupposition that I didn’t think of for myself that I possibly could have had.
Response to Viola
Post #3
Thank you very much for your open and honest comments on what you have been learning and how you have been growing. I found it interesting how you have been able to reflect on your experience in this class in relation to where you were raised. I as well have been growing and I as well am in the process of coming to a better understanding through what we are studying in this class. Thank you for the new and interesting thoughts as well as providing another opportunity to reflect on our class discussions.
Reflexion#2
In the book of understanding Scripture I really think about the Christian approach about the guide line of interpretation.
The Biblical process called grammatical approach is considered as one of perfect method that I believe in. It is very valuable in the understanding of the Scripture.When someone ask you a question about statement,it to the Holy Spirit to act on the understanding of the historical content of the person living with its custom and tradition.we observe that in Genesis the need to let the people of God know that not only the king and royalties are made in the image of god Egypt but they were brought under slave,wanted to know that there is a God, who has made them in His image and He has delivered them from slavery. We also, see the story of faith by working with GOD. that historical helps clear data the confusion people have. likeness
Response to Filip pt2
For past #3
TThank you for the thoughts my friend. I loved how you used the Word in your blog. As well as comparing it with how we are to lead/guide people to Christ through what we do. When you had that line about ‘flexable hermeneutics’… I had a little… hum… because my thought was that our hermeneutic method should be sound thus leading us to what you explained latter in the blog. So Yes I agree with you… being open and honest with others, being able to listen and participate with other will take God’s message a long way. Thanks again for sharing.
Blog 3: It Depends How You View The Light: The Death of Young Man and What that has to do with Revelation, Inspiration, and Hermeneutics.
“A man drowned Sunday night [July 25, 2010 at 8 pm] in Lake Michigan at Silver Beach, city police confirmed,” it said in the Southwest Michigan Herald-Palladium. This was the first time I have ever witnessed the death of anyone. It happened just last night when Elena and I were going to go play some volleyball at Silver Beach in St. Joseph. When we arrived there were police all over, people were standing around, and then we looked out onto the water and there was a large crowd surrounding the shore, with boats driving back and forth, jet-ski’s following close behind, and a large line of people in the water trying to locate the body of a 26-year old young man that had gone under thirty minutes prior to our arrival. As we stumbled around for ten minutes in shock of what we were watching, a small cheer emerged from those on the shore. I ran to see what it might be. They located the boy, and a group of five people carried him to shore and began CPR immediately. They pushed on his chest with no avail for almost five minutes or longer and loaded him on the back of a ranger truck and continued the CPR, but nothing helped, he had been underwater for too long, almost forty minutes too long.
“What does this have to do with Revelation, Inspiration, and Hermeneutics,” you might ask? Well, at the base of it all, a correct understanding of this material is that crucial. It is between drowning in false ideologies—our false presuppositions—which, distort the reality of human existence, versus rising to life, knowing Christ, Jesus Christ, our Savior. As I spoke with a friend today, he said how we as Adventists have gotten the doctrines down to a Science, but have we even attempted to do the same with knowing Jesus. Have we attempted to recognize Jesus in our family, have we attempted to love Him with all of our being, and study His life as if our lives truly depended on it and not our classwork? The life of Jesus is transformational, leading to right orthopraxy, while the study of doctrines done correctly—hermeneutics—lead to correct orthodoxy, which is good and should be adhered to. Rather than getting into trouble by swinging the pendulum to the other side, we need to change the way we view these two, like Science and Theology. Continuously we must unify these two, and stop splitting them. We must make all our doctrine practical and salvific in terms of asking, “What does this teach me about Jesus?” and “How can this draw me closer to Jesus?” We are downing in our feuds with other religions, denominations, and ourselves, but we must seek strengthening our knowledge of the Savior, which is salvific. If our study on a doctrine does not lead us to a better knowledge of the Savior, it will only lead to legalism, whether conservative or liberal, and it will lead to death because it is without a Savior, the Savior. If our hermeneutics are not to this end, we are doomed, failed, and lost. If we didn’t know already, without Jesus we can’t make it to an everlasting life with God. Not one more Bible Study, or devotion, or class, or even the knowledge of our short coming in the light of Christ will help save us, if none of it is for the purpose of drawing you to know Him personally, and then share Him with a drowning world. First, you have to realize as I slowly am if you have not already, that it is I who am drowning, I don’t really know Him, I just know about Him. So, apply the right tools, and start studying the Savior, start studying all things if you haven’t already in light of the true Light. Or else you will realize that the light you are seeing is slowly fading as you view it through murky water as you look up into the sun, and you suddenly realize you’re under the water not above it.
This was more emotional thought than anything else, but I hope that there was something there to think about.
Response to Violeta’s comment on silent prayer (7/25/2010)
Thanks for encouraging me to think more on the matter of praying out loud instead of silently. I believe that both silent and spoken private prayers are appropriate and that it is good to practice both. We are told that Daniel cultivated a habit of silent prayer that kept him in communion with God throughout the day (That I May Know Him, p 247). I am also certain that Daniel’s prayer at his window was not silent (it certainly wasn’t private). I also have no doubt that God is able to make the contents of our silent prayers known to anyone else who needs to know them. I also believe that if when we pray we ask God to shut us in with him He will do that. I may be wrong, but I doubt that He wants us to be too concerned with whether or not others can hear our prayers. Most of all He just wants us to pray with Him as we would speak with a friend.
Response to Ryan’s Reflection 3 on Presuppositions (7/25/2010)
Thanks for your blog on this topic. I also enjoyed the discussion in class today following your presentation. I’d not even considered the idea of presuppositions at various levels as Dr Hanna shared with us and I find it useful. I somehow doubt that I can ever be fully aware of each of my presuppositions – but at least I can try to remain aware that I do have presuppositions and that these affect the way I look at things, and I need to be open to modifying them.
Response to Filip’s Blog 3 (7/26/2010)
Filip, what an experience – we tend to not forget these scenes and they provide lots of food for thought. I appreciated your application to the danger of drowning in our feuds. That on its own is food for thought. Then there was the great application of drowning for lack of a true knowledge of Christ. I especially appreciated the reminder that we must always keep Christ at the centre, seeking in everything to gain a better understanding of Him. As I read I could hear a sermon coming from you!
Response to Viola's comment
Wow, when I was reading your reflection writing, I was just amazed by your insight on God's perspective on the law. I was asking question before that can God break the Law, and I now understand that it could be very rude question by my human reason because the Law is God's charactor, and I am here in a small planet, and asking this stupid question to my creator saying "can you not be a God?". I am thankful to your wonderful reflection, once again, thanks!
Reflection #4
First, I am thankful to Dr. Hanna that he showed me a lot of wide perspective on this subject. It could be too subjective, but I especially loved his lecture when he mentioned about objective and subjective issue. It is true that people who lives in 2010, can all us, including the Adventist, the common sense could be presupposed based on Post-modernism way of thinking. Whether it is objective or subjective, people don’t care if it is not related to their personal lives. Me either, I have that kind of mind too. And at the same time, I thought that my subjective mind was offended by the people or groups who claim themselves objective. Therefore, I did not like whatever, whoever claimed themselves objective. However, Dr. Hanna’s lecture just turns me over. I was making same mistake which I did not like. Not only a student, but as a Christian, I learned many things from Dr. Hanna’s lecture.
I have to say that I met wonderful people, everyone has kind smile, and they have very unique ideas and sincere attitude toward this subject, I was proud of myself that I am in this class.
The final reading I did was chapter 7 from Understanding Scripture, and chapter 9, what does the bible say by Dr. Hanna. I also taking another class about Ellen White, and we studied about what is going to happen if we don’t pray before we study and interpret Ellen white’s writing. We learned that our skepticism will be strengthened, and Satan will take over our mind, and we may not have correct interpretation. I think the most important thing before we read and understand the Scripture or any inspirational writings, our attitude on the subject and God is significant. It looks so simple, but when we study the historical – biblical approach also teaches same thing. We also talked about presupposition for a long time, we show that how powerful presupposition is when we approach to the scripture. We may not go and read the scripture without presuppositions. Then I want to ask this, how could we have presupposition? It could be answered many different ways, but I think it is the attitude toward God. To make it simple, do you want to argue with God? or do you want to know about God? Furthermore, our approach to the Scripture or theology seems like proving God and the scripture, but it is approach proving ourselves individually. I believe our hermeneutics and interpretation is like mirror, it will reflect my attitude to God. of course it is important to have skills to understand biblical languages, it is true that we need to have right skills to interpret the complex prophecy in Daniel and Revelation, but the conclusion me or you have will reflect God’s Character.
When I read these chapters, and reminding the lectures we had, I just feel like I am truly sinner, and I was the first one who doubt on His messages for me.
I am glad I realize who and where I am, and I want thank God, professor and all of you to make me have better understanding of God.
“Lord! Help my unbelief…”
Comment to Filup
Hey man! you know what? I was thinking before I wrote this, "I will just write something as soon as possible, because it is my last day of suumer"........ but I was wrong.. when I read chapters, when I wrote my reflection, and when I read yours, I feel like the Spirit is here in my room that encourage me. I heard that news what happened on last sunday, and I jusr realize how weak we are.. 26 year old man died? 26 years old man could be the strongest man among people, but he could not against current rip from the cosmos.. we are weaker than him, we are weaker than Satan...no I have to say we cannot compare ourselve to Satan because we are soooooooooooooooooo weak... satan knows bible better than us, satan knows us better than us... But We have Christ who promised us that he will send the Holy Spirit to make us strong!! I love this...
Thank you for sharing your reflection.
Comment to Ryan Whitehead
After I took this Class, the word presupposition flying around in my mind. I experienced when I worekd on my paper, how much presupposition make change my EXPECTATION for conclusion. Thank God that he made me humber enough to change the direction of my paper (well, I had to admit that I was stupid...^^;). I think we easily believe that we make (shape) our presupposition or influenced by our cultre, church, or SDA brainwash(?... but I believe that even that presupposition can be shaped by Holy Spitir. Jesus had to talk with guys who had full of presupposition but we saw what happaend!!
I am glad that we have promise of Holy Spirit!
Thanks!!
Comment to Jonathan
As you mentioned, we tend to put our God in our small box, which I want to call it presupposition...I don;t know it is right or not. I would call wrong presupposition as legalism.
I was thinking that only behavior could be catagorized legalism, but our mind and attitude toward God could be also legalistic.
Thanks for sharing your reflection! and God Bless!
Reflection # 4.1
Today I need to admit that my post in regard to DNA of gospel as the “required minimum” for salvation was incomplete and mistaken. Doing my research for Dr. Moon’s class I discovered a paragraph in Christ’s Object Lessons that has proved Dr. Hanna’s position on this issue. And Owen was absolutely right, saying that “we need to be very careful in limiting who God might save based on a simplified reading of one or two texts.”
So, here is the quote:
“Wherever there is an impulse of love and sympathy, wherever the heart reaches out to bless and uplift others, there is revealed the working of God’s Holy Spirit. In the depths of heathenism, men who have had no knowledge of the written law of God, who have never even heard the name of Christ, have been kind to His servants, protecting them at the risk of their own lives. Their acts show the working of a divine power. The Holy Spirit has implanted the grace of Christ in the heart of the savage, quickening his sympathies contrary to his nature, contrary to his education. The ‘Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world’ (John 1:9), is shining in his soul; and this light, if heeded, will guide his feet to the kingdom of God.” COL P.385
It’s a very powerful message and at the same time a humbling one, because it presents salvation as an objective reality, independent from our evangelistic efforts.
Response to Violeta's Reflection #4.1
I'm glad you found that quote - I was aware of something along these lines but couldn't locate it the other day. It is encouraging to know and it helps paint the picture of a God who is just and fair and considers the motives of our hearts. I mentioned C. S. Lewis' view in an earlier comment (I wish I had my audio version of The Last Battle with me as it would have been fun to share that section). I think that Lewis and Ellen White would agree quite closely on this concept.
Your last comment does raise one question though; what is the rationale for us doing any evangelism if salvation is independent of it? I actually believe that there are some very good reasons, but perhaps that is for another discussion.
Reflection 4
This would have to be the first time that I remember coming to the end of a class and wished that it could continue. These last four weeks together have flown. I’ve really appreciated the ways in which Dr Hanna has lead us towards a more holistic picture of Revelation, Inspiration and Hermeneutics, and I’ve enjoyed our interaction as a class.
There are a few important lessons that I want to keep with me following this class:
1. I want at all times to come to the reading of the Scriptures with an attitude of prayer and humility. It amazes me when I consider that at times I have presumed to imagine that I can reach a complete explanation of certain things in Scripture. The reality is I can only catch glimpses and these come to me by His grace, His condescension. What a privilege it is to even begin to understand Him.
2. I need to be aware that I have presuppositions, including ones I probably won’t be able to identify. Each time I read I want to at least acknowledge that they exist and try to see what colour they may be putting on the pictures of Scripture.
3. I want to remember that simplistic “proof text” answers can actually be a hindrance to seeing the real message in Scripture. They draw me quickly to a conclusion, which though it may be right, is probably only a part of the picture – and possibly even a peripheral part. The result is that I close the Scripture and walk away when there is still so much more to discover.
4. When reading Scripture I want to remember the words of Jesus in John 5:39,40: “You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life: And these are they which testify of me. But you would not come to me that you might have life.” If I’m looking for anything in Scripture that does not in some way uplift Christ and help me to understand Him better, perhaps I’m looking for something that is not there. I want to maintain a Christ-centred approach to Bible study.
5. I also want to be very careful in the way I share my thoughts and understandings on topics. I have already experienced how a few words that could have been better chosen have drawn others into disagreeing with me and missing the real message that I was trying to share. It is quite a responsibility that we carry in this area. I’m reminded of the words of Jesus; “be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.” I guess we need to develop a diplomatic spirit underpinned by a character of integrity.
It seems like a short list but I suspect I’ll have my work cut out implementing it.
Dr Hanna presented some thoughts in class today on Revelation 17. I don’t recall hearing any presentation or reading anything on this chapter before. I have heard some preachers who have focussed on the traditional and simple interpretations and haven’t been impressed with the way the present their deductions. Today a new spark of interest in Revelation was ignited for me. I was reminded of how the book is introduced as the Revelation of Jesus but so often we tend to make it into the Revelation of the fact that we have to avoid Sunday worship. How much have we lost by focussing persistently on details like this? While I don’t deny this particular application I’m sure that over-fixating on it stops us from seeing the larger picture of Christ’s ultimate victory over a devil who consistently, throughout history, infiltrates wherever he can.
As I work toward finishing my research assignment on the role of angels in hermeneutics I am reminded of the fact that what I’m looking at is really a mystery, something I should not expect to explain in any conclusive way. Jesus Himself said that the Holy Spirit acts in ways we can’t explain, like the wind. And as the angels are His messengers, and unfallen creations, I’m doubtful that I’ll be able to understand much of how they work on His behalf. But I take courage in the knowledge that they do work on God’s behalf to accomplish the great purpose of God – our salvation. What a wonderful God we serve who withholds no resource in His pursuit of us.
4th Reflection
This I believe is one of the more important parts that we must come to understand about presuppositions.
Understanding that we cannot come to hermeneutics with a blank slate what are we supposed to do? If our presuppositions are such that we cannot get rid of them how are we to approach scripture and other questions that we have? One quote I came across is as follows-
“We must know ourselves . . .. Each of us approaches Scripture with his own, or her own presuppositions. These presuppositions are part of our worldview, part of our personal theology. In the first in- stance they relate to the way we regard Scripture. Does it consist of infallible propositions? Is it the record of certain acts of God? Is it an inspired record? Is there revelation outside Scripture? Our views here will dictate how we handle the text. Our minds are not empty Understanding and Applying the Bible when we read or listen to Scripture; what we hear is already partly predetermined by what is already in them; our presuppositions shape what we understand. It is not necessary to argue here for any one particular set of presuppositions, but to insist that we become aware of our own so that when we understand and interpret we know how we are being influenced by them. It is also important that we see that our presuppositions are consistent, that we do not operate with one set at one time and with another at another.”
This quote asks many questions that I have as well and will be good to reflect on in the future. This quote is also power packed with what I have discussed previously and finishes with the answer to our question about what we are to do with our presuppositions. This focus brought up in this previous quote is focused on being aware of our presuppositions. This understanding and realization that we have presuppositions helps us come to any situation and thought more open-minded than we would be if we were unaware of our own presupposition. In comparing our own self-understanding with our reading of scripture. This self-understanding will allow us to be more wholistic thinkers as we understand ourselves and allow the word of God to change and do its work on our presuppositions and us.
To Owen
On Reflection #4
I want to copy down these thoughts that you have here. They are ones that I want to apply to my life as well. Thank you for writing them down. I really relate to your thoughts as we come to scripture and in relation to how we talk to others about what we believe and hold as true. Always being humble and as far as possible knowing what we are presupposed in our thinking.
One thing that I would add off the top of my head to that list is a striving not to be legalistic in how we go about our whole lives. I have felt this in my life and through this class my eyes have been opened a little more. Every new day I hope we all seek to know more from the one who is so willing to fill us with his knowledge.
Blessings,
Enjoy Seattle!
To Sehyun Sean Lee
Reflection #4
I think you are right! Relationships are so important and when we know someone cares about our lives... things will change.
I also agree with you that our attitude when we come to scripture or studying about God will affect our/Gods ability for us to understand.
I thank you for your honest and open thoughts and perspective on what you have been studying. Reflecting the Character of God is truly where we ought to be striving.
Yes we need more of Him!
Hermeneutics does not necessarily imply all the details in the text. Very often when reading scripture, we have the expectation that it will tell everything we need to know. But what I'm discovering is that not every "i" is dotted and not every "t" is crossed but that doesn't mean the message changes.
Sometimes, we're looking for a backdoor or an excuse to live our lives without any accountability and use the nuances often found in Scripture as our crutch. The bible is definitely clear on some issues and others are understood though ambiguous. But what about the "unknowns"? Is it safe to say that God doesn't have an opinion on certain matters or that He simply desires that we'll allow the Holy Spirit to influence our reasoning and come to terms that certain things are a given whether or not they're specifically mentioned?
I work with youth and often they're looking for an exact answer to this or that and truly feel that the Bible doesn't speak to their time. But that's not true! The bible speaks in every age, but I believe how we listen makes a world of difference in our interpretation of what is said. Now, I'm not saying that we need not review the historical background for relevance, but how do we repackage the same underlying message within a different context?
In doing my research, the premise of my paper was to identify methods of approaching hermeneutics from different cultural perspectives. But what I realized in hindsight is that culture transcends ethnicity. Culture is a state of mind and state of being (i.e. postmodernism). So when we consider our current state of affairs, we can't fall short of reaching people where they are.
As I consider all that is involved in biblical hermeneutics, I conclude that without the help of the Holy Spirit, we can understand nothing and can are in danger of leading people in the wrong direction.
Reflection #4
I really appreciated the discussion on Dr. Hanna's article "Exploring biblical headship tradition and culture". It's a hot topic for most churches communities and while we've pushed every kind of button, we have failed to come to a proper hermeneutical understanding of Paul's writings. And for this reason, many women have suffered under the guise of the word "submission" because certain men have misquoted and misrepresented the Scriptures.
This is a serious matter in many circles and must needs be addressed with the proper context in mind. The problem with the Corinthians was that they were being legalistic with the communication they received from Paul in his previous visit. They were misunderstanding his statements and Paul returned to address them.
Christian headship tradition involves a sharing of authority. Although sin has caused a rift in the relationship between man and woman and has compromised the original plan of God re: an egalitarian rule and partnership of husband and wife, the Christian husband will recognize his God-given responsibility to respect his wife and note that she has the authority to exercise her own authority in Christ.
Does this mean that the Christian women subjects herself to every man in her life? No! She is subject to her husband with the understanding that while he represents Christ to her in that He is lord over his life, Christ can have a direct relationship with a woman without a man. Woman can therefore submit to the headship of Christ without have the mediation of man.
Paul supports an egalitarian view of authority shared in the marriage relationship (see 1 Corinthians 7:4-5). Neither should attempt to rule over the other.
Let's stop pulling the gender card and read the text as it should be read and allow the Holy Spirit to guide us in our thinking and interpretation of these passages without the prejudices of our own agendas.
On another note, I must say that this class has afforded the opportunity of grappling with some serious things. And as I look to my future in ministry, it's becoming clearer my need for deeper study not simply for study sake but to experience a daily encounter with God who reveals Himself through His word. The word is spirit and life and all who will eat will never hunger again. Make my hungry, Lord!
Reflection #3
In reading the chapter on "Ellen G. White and Hermeneutics" (Understanding Scripture), we can conclude that the same principles by which we approach the Scriptures is the same by which we need to approach her writings. We need to consider time, place, and circumstance of her writings in light of the final authority of the Scriptures.
Many will take Sr. White as the last word and will "burn you at the stake" if it appears that you are not supportive of her work, but in reality, I don't believe that she ever intended her work to be viewed in such light. While she had much to say on various issues/topics, and served as a conduit to communicate some very important messages for her time and for the future, if we fail to exalt the Scriptures taking only her word for it, we do ourselves a disservice and her writings are frequently misused.
Just like the Scriputures command us to study the word "line upon line, precept upon precept", we need to approach Sr. White with the same attitude. Without a proper hermeneutical principle in place, what would have been a blessing to the church at large, only becomes a source of contention and strife.
In the same manner that we pray to begin our daily reading of the Word and ask for enlightenment in our study, we too, should offer a word of prayer when reading Sr. White's work understanding that she was a human being subject to mistakes and defiency.
At one point in our history, we were known as the "people of the book". What will it take for us to regain that title versus the "people of EGW"? Food for thought.
To Owen: Reflection #4
I agree with your sentiments. I too, have enjoyed this class tremendously wished we didn't have to conclude. Nevertheless, I believe each of us have gleaned a bundle to munch on and as a result will be the better for it. Our understanding has been enriched and our passion has been ignited to search deeper the things of God.
As we journey along, we can only pray and hope that our experience here would have developed ministers who indeed are prepared to rightly divide the word of truth and be sensitive to the work of the Holy Spirit as He uses us to impart to others.
Reflection #4
In my last reflection paper/blog I wanted to first talk about the section in The Cosmic Christ of Scripture entitled “The Mind of Christ”. In this section the content of our minds is discussed. This is a subject that I have given much thought towards. There are so many different mindsets in our world. Everyone thinks differently but some of us share some common views where as others do not. Why is this? Why do some people think only of themselves? Why is it that the most important thing in the world for most people has something to do with themselves? We all perceive the world differently. In some cases people view the world as every man or woman for themselves. However as I read this section I noticed that our mind-sets come from God. They are a result of God’s gifts of wisdom and spiritual perception. This means that the backwards model that most of the world operates on is due to a lack of God’s wisdom and gifts in their lives. Now that I have read and written it down, it seems so simple, but I have spent a lot of time wondering why some people can’t see what this world really is. The answer is incredibly clear Jesus makes the difference. He is the reason we are able to understand how awful this world really is. It is His presence in our lives that shapes our understanding of the world around us.
The next thing I wanted to talk about was something that hit me while reading out of Understand Scripture. As I was reading about the Authority of Jesus I can across this text “He did not come to do away with the Scriptures but to fulfill, so confirming their authority” Matt 5:17-19. This brought back to mind our discussion on miracles. This text is one of many more things I have found since that helps me to believe more strongly that God does not break His own laws when He performs a miracle. Jesus did not come to this world to do away with scriptures but to fulfill, just like He does not want to destroy His law but rather work within it. Why would our God break something He spent so much time working on to make perfect?
Lastly I wanted to talk about the discussion we had in class about Sabbath School. I have always wondered why we don’t put more stock into Sabbath School. It is the perfect opportunity to have small group discussions or one on one talks with people. It is in the classroom that you can break down the materials and have a more critical understanding. One of the things that make a classroom special is that it allows for a deeper level of engagement. I’ll admit that I am biased for the classroom. I have my undergrad in Education but if most of the church can understand the importance of the regular classroom why not the Sabbath School classroom? We are missing out on a huge venue for growth in out church. This is one area that I intend to develop and work over time.
One more thing, I would also like to say thank you to Dr. Hanna for teaching an incredibly interesting and challenging classes. Also thank you to everyone else in the classroom as well, I really enjoyed learning from everyone in the class. It was interesting to see how different personalities and backgrounds can shape how a person interprets things. The discussions we had were very insightful on manly levels and I am sure all that what I have learned from everyone will be put to good use. Thanks again…
To: Sabine
I agree with your view on E. G. Whites writings. I don't see her a tyrant that wanted to judge everyone. I think that some people that go around quoting her constantly give her a bad reputation. If you read her writings I think you will discover that she only want to point people towards Jesus. Her endeavors were positive over all.
To: Owen
I really like your first point. This class has forced me to reconsider Scripture all together. I think I am starting to see the Bible less in terms of "complete explanation". Our God is too big to completely understand. We will be spending our entire lives... the rest of eternity discovering God.
Reflection#3
The Divine Mission for Israel
In the of UNDERSTANDING SCRIPTURE,God said to Abraham "I will make you a great nation, I will bless you and make your name great.' By these statement, God wanted to remain the Israelites their responsibility among other nations. Whether or not God wanted the Israelites to be active missionaries makes a little impact on my responsibilities and the way I live my life. However, when I talk with non believers I anticipate more confidence in explaining the ministry of the Oltestament. In this way mission is very important.When I consider Naaman and Jonah, I really appreciate the attention given to them.Their lives seem to prove the heart of God. I am sure Iwill never fully understand God, but my mission is to justify what I know from God. The God that promise me to make me a great servant among the others.
To Ryan on Presup's
You know I really like the quote you shared. I hammers down what Dr. Hanna has said, begin by admitting your presups and then continue your learning with the knowledge of where your conclusion might have originated from.
The quote also brought our the point of being consistent with your presuppositions. Yet, in this society it is very difficult for us young people to be consistent with our thinking. We like taking a little bit from everyone and making it fit together. In my ethics class, our teacher was really frustrated with this because in different situations kids act differently, abandoning their previously established code of conduct. This is a serious issue. We really need to be consistent, otherwise we will become quite relativistic.
To Viola and Owen on Limiting God's ability to minister: I have struggled with the idea of Jesus saving those who have never heard the name of Christ. I am troubled with text like John 3.16 and how it clearly outlines salvation based solely on JESUS, and nothing else. So, without Jesus we are lost! Yet, as I have read in Romans 2.14-15, God will save those who live by the Law, and have never heard of the Law. People might know of Christ's way and his gift for them, without ever knowing of Him. This is something I am still working through, but man it sure is amazing realizing that God works in ways that are beyond us, and we have no right to limit the works of God.
Blog 4: The Model of interpretation and Watching what you say
I have to say that I am so glad that we went over the chapter by Ekkahardt Muller in class. I really wanted to know what is the correct way to interpret the Scriptures, how can it be done? This is something I want to share with my church one day. Anybody can interpret the Scriptures when done within the boundaries. People are afraid or simply confused when it comes to how one should interpret the Bible. Our fears and those of our members cause us to fall in to the rut of waiting for the pastor of theologian to talk with us, when all the tools are at our fingertips and we just have to study and apply. We have become lazy when it comes to studying the Scripture, and when the meaning doesn’t come out immediately we get lazy to search the Scriptures and rather wait. That’s too bad. We are also conduits of the Holy Spirit and we too can bless others if we are diligent students of God’s Word. I read a quote from Acts of Apostles p. 327 “Faithfulness in preaching the word, united with a pure, consistent life, can alone make the efforts of ministers acceptable to God and profitable to souls.” We have the faithful in preaching the word, but without diligent Study of the Word, we won’t have anything of significance to share with God’s people.
I have to agree with Owen’s comment about being more careful about what we say. I found myself in a discussion about music, and a friend said a certain type of Christian music is wrong. I told them to be careful how they say that because God will still work on peoples lives in spire of how my friend feels about that genre of Christian music. I shared how God works in more mysterious ways then we think. As I was sharing this I found myself talking to “who I used to be.” I have always limited God and now I was talking to someone who also feels that way. I think that my newfound freedom is good, but where is the limit? And, how should I speak about this? I think my comments were quite “radical” for the group I was speaking with. Many people will take what we say and misconstrue what we say or misunderstand. We must be much more careful.
Thanks class, and thanks Dr. Hanna for the blessing of sharing this mindshifting/altering month together.
The four Gospels (reflection #4)
It was important for me to read in the book of Understanding Scripture different presentations of Jesus Christ.One question is asked about the Gospel, why are there four Gospels? I think there are four Gospels because each one of them has its own concern.Each one talk about the life of Jesus,but not the same way.For example, one talk about light, others about love.I can say that the Gospel for John is love. In the other hand Mathew, Mark and Luke describe Jesus Christ's life as the light. They said everything that He made manifest in the light. Therefore, it is important to mention that Matthew presents Jesus as a king, Mark as servant, Luke as Priest before God and John as deity. Those four aspects are the main presentation of Jesus Christ on the earth. (REFLECTION # 4)
TO Jonathan
Thank you for sharing your reflection on the reading. It is so true what you said about the mind-set of Christ:
“…our mind-sets come from God. They are a result of God’s gifts of wisdom and spiritual perception. This means that the backwards model that most of the world operates on is due to a lack of God’s wisdom and gifts in their lives.
“…Why some people can’t see what this world really is. - …Jesus makes the difference.”
When I thought about it I realized that it is impossible to understand how bad something is unless I can compare it with something better.
And “something better” in this case is the promises of God, revealed in Christ by the Holy Spirit.
When I think about mind-set of Christ I see the “abundance” mentality.
For example:
“Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come from God and was going to God,
rose from supper and laid aside His garments, took a towel and girded Himself.” John 13:3,4
Or:
“ Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.”
Jesus knew something that made him generous to give and willing to serve.
I found out that it is a torture for me to serve without “knowing,” who am I in Christ.
Paul asked God to give us the Spirit of wisdom and revelation.
“So”, - he explained, “that you might grow in your knowledge of God.
I pray that your hearts will be flooded with light so that you can understand the wonderful future he has promised to those he called.
I want you to realize what a rich and glorious inheritance he has given to his people. I pray that you will begin to understand the incredible greatness of his power for us who believe him.” Eph 1:17-19
I wish I’d be able more clearly understand what does it mean to have the authority to be a child of God.
Reflection # 4.2
One of the most challenging and exiting “revelations” of the last days of the class for me happened to be the “conversational” method of Revelation/Inspiration.
Not everything that God said is what he exactly meant.
I recognize the high level of vulnerability of this method. However, the correct, Spirit-guided consideration of it and its skilful application in our hermeneutics – it’s a breakthrough in understanding of some difficult “paradoxes” of Scripture.
Keeping in mind the examples of Moses and Abraham we examined in our class, I now I can identify this method as it was employed by E.G. White’ in her hermeneutics of Scripture.
One of the most misunderstood concepts in our church: relationship between the covenant of grace and the Old Covenant.
Sorry for such a long quotation, but I just love E.G. White’s interpretation of this issue. You have to know God quite well to make such interpretation of the Exodus story and the Sinai Covenant.
“Why was another covenant formed at Sinai?
In their bondage the people had to a great extent lost the knowledge of God and of the principles of the Abrahamic covenant. In delivering them from Egypt, God sought to reveal to them His power and His mercy, that they might be led to love and trust Him. …He had bound them to Himself as their deliverer from temporal bondage.
But there was a still greater truth to be impressed upon their minds.
Living in the midst of idolatry and corruption, they had no true conception of the holiness of God, of the exceeding sinfulness of their own hearts, their utter inability, in themselves, to render obedience to God's law, and their need of a Saviour. All this they must be taught.
God brought them to Sinai; He manifested His glory; He gave them His law, with the promise of great blessings on condition of obedience: "If ye will obey My voice indeed, and keep My covenant, then . . . ye shall be unto Me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation." Exodus 19:5, 6.
The people did not realize the sinfulness of their own hearts, and that without Christ it was impossible for them to keep God's law; and they readily entered into covenant with God. Feeling that they were able to establish their own righteousness, they declared, "All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient." Exodus 24:7. They had witnessed the proclamation of the law in awful majesty, and had trembled with terror before the mount; and yet only a few weeks passed before they broke their covenant with God, and bowed down to worship a graven image. They could not hope for the favor of God through a covenant, which they had broken; and now, seeing their sinfulness and their need of pardon, they were brought to feel their need of the Saviour revealed in the Abrahamic covenant and shadowed forth in the sacrificial offerings. Now by faith and love they were bound to God as their deliverer from the bondage of sin. Now they were prepared to appreciate the blessings of the new covenant. {PP 371.4}
I really want to learn the principles of hermeneutics, which would help me to see God’s intentions and His grace in the most confusing and harsh passages of the Bible.
RESPONSE TO viola
I really appreciate your reflection about the cosmos. You touch a point which could raise a lot of questions. You say, "Without the Holy Spirit( Him)no cosmos, neither church, nor Scripture, and not even Christ would be possible." I consider this statement as a great theological debate because no one knows really if it would be impossible without Him. Maybe God would choose another option to fulfill the Holy Spirit position. I do not say it is not real, but some times there are some things which go far upon our comprehension.This is a very fascinating point because it touch my interest.
Response to Jcoke
I agree with you when you ask yourself :Why some people think differently for themselves? I think this is the human daily behavior. I think this is the diversity in God's creation. He creates everyone unique, but with capacity to unite in one person, Jesus Christ.
I embrace the statement by Dr. F. Canale, in chapter 4. Where he calls Adventists to move beyond apologetics and to a “more constructive theology of inspiration”. It seems to me that too often all Christians spend too much time in the art of apologetics to an extent that often we forget the charge of the Great Commission. As a simple definition, if such could be construed, the Pocket Dictionary of Theological Terms says, “apologetics is the formal defense of the Christian faith”. The defensive unfolding of apologetics, however, focuses regularly on “rational argumentation, empirical evidence, fulfillment of prophecy, church authority, or mystical experience” all in an effort to produce proof of God’s existence, deity of Christ, and the clout of scripture. This is indeed what frequently occurs. However, when we take a good look at Jesus’ life I do not see him spending an enormous amount of time trying to prove to the world that He is the “Son of Man”. While He did speak about such and preformed many miracles we know that many did not believe, including those who believed in the coming of the Messiah. So, are we spending too much time trying to prove to the world that a tangible and intangible God is real, when even those who believed that Jesus was to come didn’t believe when He did? I believe that we are. Please note that I am saying that we are spending too much time, but, I am not saying that we should not employ apologetics at all. I know all too well that many people, who are interested in Christianity, want to see proof. What I do embrace, and believe is proper, is the need to have a balanced method of hermeneutics. As Adventist it would do us well to move in the direction that Canale is suggesting. The fact that we have no creed, and that the Bible is our only means of such, does lend itself to an interpretation and understanding that we have of a sense of openness regarding the expansion our biblical methodologies. If I understand Canale he is not suggestion that we abandoned apologetics, but minimized its usage. He is pushing the idea of inspiration, which he considers to be “mainly a linguistic” aspect. He points out that “a constructive, pioneering task in systematic theology” would be a good place to start. What he further declares, in the same chapter, is something that I seldom hear within the Adventist circles. He says that we would “benefit from analyzing the way other interpretations have been conceived”. I know that many SDA’s, upon reading such, would begin to pass judgment and possibly conclude that he is suggesting that we embrace the ideas and or interpretations of others, but such is far from what he is declaring. His point seems to be that we (SDA’s) stand to gain further insights by considering the negative and positive of other interpretations. I believe that this is a wholesome approach, which moves towards holism. To move contrary to a holistic prespective, I opine, is incunabulum of a dogmatic mindset. As people of “The Book”, is it proper to embrace a closed minded attitude and not move to further growth? To hold unto to such is to really forget the changes that our denomination underwent throughout the years. When we take a close look at the life of E. G. White we see that she under went change. Even when there were matters that she felt very strong about she embrace and welcomed change. Such is also the case with the Creator who entered into an agreement with Abraham about destroying Sodom and Gomorrah. God was willing to change what he was going to carry out. Lastly, is not the Christian life one of growth and change? If such is the case in all three instances than certainly as a denomination we should “move beyond apologetics concerns into the task of developing a more constructive theology of inspiration”. Change that moves one to a closer walk with the Lord is positive and not negative. I therefore encourage us all to let the Holy Spirit lead us as we explore a “constructive theology of inspiration”. And in doing such, may God receive all the honor and glory.
Violeta, I appreciate your thought provoking blogs and comments in class. I commend you for being so open in your blog on the DNA of gospel. Thanks for publicly modeling such an attitude of change. May I be as open. If it were not for the love of God all of us would be doomed. Praise His name!
Johnathan Coker in your first reflection, where you linked the decline of worship with "the straying from sola scriptura", was at first something a bit confusing for me. However, as I read the rest of your blog the point became clearer. And I believe that there is a connection between God's word and our worship. I would add, however, that even without His word there are many people who praise His name because of His revelation through nature. In this there is life and worship.
Response to Sehyun Sean Lee 4th reflection. I am glad that you had a positive experience in this class. It is amazing to learn new things about God's word and how to consider such in a different way. May the Hoy Spirit continue to lead you.
Response to Cesar Jean 1st reflection.
Thanks for your word that speak about having a clear and open mind permitting the Holy Spirit to give us more light regarding God's message. I too believe that we need to be opened minded. I would just added that we first need to be filled with the Holy Spirit to grasp additional light. We certainly need to be led by God's spirit. Blessings.
Wilfred Nyambaka said..
In my keen review of the book understanding of the Scripture and the Cosmic Christ of the Scriture,i have to appreciate the orderly was how our Adventist Church base its interpreeetation of the scripture.
The interpretation of the Bible according to the Seventh Day Adventist is very unique. This is because it is based on the four major hermeneutical interpretations principles. This principle forms the beliefs that make the SDA beliefs.
First and foremost, the Seventh Day Adventist interprets the bible from the period of the Post-Exilic Jews. At time the Jews moved increasingly toward a more rigid obedience of the law and Sabbath as defined by the tradition. For this reason, the Christian church was born within the context of Rabbinical Judaism and expanded itself later into the realms of Hellenistic Judaism in the Roman persecution.
Secondly, the Adventist church bases their biblical interpretation from the time of the Ancient and Medieval church fathers. This includes people like Origen, Iraneaus Augustine and others who live in their time. This is because this is the very people who were maintained the biblical interpretation of the Bibles after the apostolic fathers. They employed the allegorical method of interpretation of the Bible, and tradition above the scripture. Thus the Medieval church claimed non-biblical teaching and made them the same level with the scripture.
Despite all this, God restored the position of the Bible in the time of the Post-Reformation period. Martin Luther, being the hero of it all, he demanded that the tradition and the bible be separated as it was used in the Catholic interpretation. Hegemony was broken and the Bible was allowed again to speak directly to the believer. This was done through the principle of SOLA SCRIPTURE -the scripture exclusiveness, and TOTA SCRIPTURE- the totality of the scripture.
In the 18th century, strong debates came up by the Bible critics, in this time natural science begun to erode the nomadic authority of the scripture.
In the late 18th century, there was a widespread of interest of the interpretation of the Bible and Miller came up basing his interpretation in SALA AND TOTA SALA SCRIPTURA.This was in the prophecy of Daniel 11 about the 2300 days of the sanctuary.
From this period the early Adventist believers’ church was born. They also based their interpretation in the same way Miller did of ”sola and tota scriptura”
This three principles of interpretation brings us to the great summary of biblical interpretation: Tota Scriptura-all scripture, sola sriptura-scripture alone and prima scriptura-scripture first. It’s here where Sis. White says ”the bilbe is the greater light” and is the standard measure for all doctrines.
The interpretation of the Bible according to the Seventh Day Adventist is very unique. This is because it is based on the four major hermeneutical interpretations principles. This principle forms the beliefs that make the SDA beliefs.
First and foremost, the Seventh Day Adventist interprets the bible from the period of the Post-Exilic Jews. At time the Jews moved increasingly toward a more rigid obedience of the law and Sabbath as defined by the tradition. For this reason, the Christian church was born within the context of Rabbinical Judaism and expanded itself later into the realms of Hellenistic Judaism in the Roman persecution.
Secondly, the Adventist church bases their biblical interpretation from the time of the Ancient and Medieval church fathers. This includes people like Origen, Iraneaus Augustine and others who live in their time. This is because this is the very people who were maintained the biblical interpretation of the Bibles after the apostolic fathers. They employed the allegorical method of interpretation of the Bible, and tradition above the scripture. Thus the Medieval church claimed non-biblical teaching and made them the same level with the scripture.
Despite all this, God restored the position of the Bible in the time of the Post-Reformation period. Martin Luther, being the hero of it all, he demanded that the tradition and the bible be separated as it was used in the Catholic interpretation. Hegemony was broken and the Bible was allowed again to speak directly to the believer. This was done through the principle of SOLA SCRIPTURE -the scripture exclusiveness, and TOTA SCRIPTURE- the totality of the scripture.
In the 18th century, strong debates came up by the Bible critics, in this time natural science begun to erode the nomadic authority of the scripture.
In the late 18th century, there was a widespread of interest of the interpretation of the Bible and Miller came up basing his interpretation in SALA AND TOTA SALA SCRIPTURA.This was in the prophecy of Daniel 11 about the 2300 days of the sanctuary.
From this period the early Adventist believers’ church was born. They also based their interpretation in the same way Miller did of ”sola and tota scriptura”
This three principles of interpretation brings us to the great summary of biblical interpretation: Tota Scriptura-all scripture, sola sriptura-scripture alone and prima scriptura-scripture first. It’s here where Sis. White says ”the bilbe is the greater light” and is the standard measure for all doctrines.
The interpretation of the Bible according to the Seventh Day Adventist is very unique. This is because it is based on the four major hermeneutical interpretations principles. This principle forms the beliefs that make the SDA beliefs.
First and foremost, the Seventh Day Adventist interprets the bible from the period of the Post-Exilic Jews. At time the Jews moved increasingly toward a more rigid obedience of the law and Sabbath as defined by the tradition. For this reason, the Christian church was born within the context of Rabbinical Judaism and expanded itself later into the realms of Hellenistic Judaism in the Roman persecution.
Secondly, the Adventist church bases their biblical interpretation from the time of the Ancient and Medieval church fathers. This includes people like Origen, Iraneaus Augustine and others who live in their time. This is because this is the very people who were maintained the biblical interpretation of the Bibles after the apostolic fathers. They employed the allegorical method of interpretation of the Bible, and tradition above the scripture. Thus the Medieval church claimed non-biblical teaching and made them the same level with the scripture.
Despite all this, God restored the position of the Bible in the time of the Post-Reformation period. Martin Luther, being the hero of it all, he demanded that the tradition and the bible be separated as it was used in the Catholic interpretation. Hegemony was broken and the Bible was allowed again to speak directly to the believer. This was done through the principle of SOLA SCRIPTURE -the scripture exclusiveness, and TOTA SCRIPTURE- the totality of the scripture.
In the 18th century, strong debates came up by the Bible critics, in this time natural science begun to erode the nomadic authority of the scripture.
In the late 18th century, there was a widespread of interest of the interpretation of the Bible and Miller came up basing his interpretation in SALA AND TOTA SALA SCRIPTURA.This was in the prophecy of Daniel 11 about the 2300 days of the sanctuary.
From this period the early Adventist believers’ church was born. They also based their interpretation in the same way Miller did of ”sola and tota scriptura”
This three principles of interpretation brings us to the great summary of biblical interpretation: Tota Scriptura-all scripture, sola sriptura-scripture alone and prima scriptura-scripture first. It’s here where Sis. White says ”the bilbe is the greater light” and is the standard measure for all doctrines.
on Paul Muniz comment,
I love your comment.You have said that most denomination come to interpret the Bible with thei preconcived ideas,but they dont want the Bibleto teach them but they want to fashon the Bible to fit their understanding.Surely we need to allow the Bible to speak of its own for us in doctrine and by precept..This si a great truth.Sola Scriptura.
30th Sept 2010
CHAPTER 2: FAITH, REASON AND HE HOLY SPIRIT IN HERMENEUTICS
In the study of this second chapter of the book “Understanding the Scriptures”, we are considering one important topic. This topic is reason. Man is endowed with the gift of reason. This gift that man has been given by God can be used –positively in the process of biblical hermeneutics. Although the human mind is fallen, but it can influenced by the Holy Spirit to make proper interpretation of the scriptures.
In this chapter I have learnt that faith is and should be the basis of all human reason .Though these elements seems to conflict each other however, most of the times it depends on their application. Despite all, faith should be elevated above the human reason because we know that human reason is based on human judgment but faith is based on God.
As we all know human mind was taken captive by the devil in the beginning and in every time of human history, he has been using the human mind in order to influence the way people think. So he uses the influence of his evil angles to influence the wrong use of the scriptures or make the people to misunderstand the scripture. In this book of “Understanding the Scripture”, the author explains how Paul warned the believers that the “the deceitful spirits are at work in heavenly places…principalities of powers of darkness in the heavenly places”1 Tim.3-4. On another instance Paul calls them spiritual forces, Eph 6:12, while in the letter to the Corinthians he calls Satan “blinding the minds of men”2Cor.4:3-4. On the other hand, the bible tells us that the work of the righteous angels is coming to help the believers to understand the scriptures. A good example is in the case of Daniel (Dan 8:16).The angel was sent to make him understand the hard vision. In the New Testament, we are told the angel was send to the tomb to help the Mary who was grieving over the absence of the body of Jesus at the tomb.( Luke 24:6-7.)
Another important aspect of interpreting the Bible is by the help of the Holy Spirit. We all know that the Bible was written by the influence of the Holy Spirit. How much more is he needed in the process of interpretation! When men and women meet to study the word of God, they should have to ask for the guidance of the Holy Spirit who led the prophet and men to write the writings of the Bible. It is important that in every step of hermeneutics bible interpretation, the Holy Spirit be invited for guidance. When Jesus was going to heaven, he told the disciples that He would send the “Helper, the Holy Spirit “to make them understand all things of the scriptures. Prophet Zachariah said also that it is the Holy Spirit’s office to direct this search and reward it ”not by Power or by the mighty, but by the power of the Holy Spirit “Zach 4:6. This shows that the human process of comparison of scripture should be guided by the Holy Spirit.
I wish to conclude by underscoring the one of the great principle of bible and scripture authority in the book of “Cosmic Christ of the Scripture”. The author says that the scripture authority in relation to Christian faith. Here the authors say that the scriptures guide the Christian in matters of knowledge. This shows that scripture is the rule of faith and practice. Here the author denotes that the scripture is the guide to the extra-biblical knowledge of the world. The author strongly says that the reason why we have many disagreements among the Christians faith, is based on how we are going to do and practice theology while we holding Biblical authority.
30th Sept 2010
CHAPTER 2: FAITH, REASON AND HE HOLY SPIRIT IN HERMENEUTICS
In the study of this second chapter of the book “Understanding the Scriptures”, we are considering one important topic. This topic is reason. Man is endowed with the gift of reason. This gift that man has been given by God can be used –positively in the process of biblical hermeneutics. Although the human mind is fallen, but it can influenced by the Holy Spirit to make proper interpretation of the scriptures.
In this chapter I have learnt that faith is and should be the basis of all human reason .Though these elements seems to conflict each other however, most of the times it depends on their application. Despite all, faith should be elevated above the human reason because we know that human reason is based on human judgment but faith is based on God.
As we all know human mind was taken captive by the devil in the beginning and in every time of human history, he has been using the human mind in order to influence the way people think. So he uses the influence of his evil angles to influence the wrong use of the scriptures or make the people to misunderstand the scripture. In this book of “Understanding the Scripture”, the author explains how Paul warned the believers that the “the deceitful spirits are at work in heavenly places…principalities of powers of darkness in the heavenly places”1 Tim.3-4. On another instance Paul calls them spiritual forces, Eph 6:12, while in the letter to the Corinthians he calls Satan “blinding the minds of men”2Cor.4:3-4. On the other hand, the bible tells us that the work of the righteous angels is coming to help the believers to understand the scriptures. A good example is in the case of Daniel (Dan 8:16).The angel was sent to make him understand the hard vision. In the New Testament, we are told the angel was send to the tomb to help the Mary who was grieving over the absence of the body of Jesus at the tomb.( Luke 24:6-7.)
Another important aspect of interpreting the Bible is by the help of the Holy Spirit. We all know that the Bible was written by the influence of the Holy Spirit. How much more is he needed in the process of interpretation! When men and women meet to study the word of God, they should have to ask for the guidance of the Holy Spirit who led the prophet and men to write the writings of the Bible. It is important that in every step of hermeneutics bible interpretation, the Holy Spirit be invited for guidance. When Jesus was going to heaven, he told the disciples that He would send the “Helper, the Holy Spirit “to make them understand all things of the scriptures. Prophet Zachariah said also that it is the Holy Spirit’s office to direct this search and reward it ”not by Power or by the mighty, but by the power of the Holy Spirit “Zach 4:6. This shows that the human process of comparison of scripture should be guided by the Holy Spirit.
I wish to conclude by underscoring the one of the great principle of bible and scripture authority in the book of “Cosmic Christ of the Scripture”. The author says that the scripture authority in relation to Christian faith. Here the authors say that the scriptures guide the Christian in matters of knowledge. This shows that scripture is the rule of faith and practice. Here the author denotes that the scripture is the guide to the extra-biblical knowledge of the world. The author strongly says that the reason why we have many disagreements among the Christians faith, is based on how we are going to do and practice theology while we holding Biblical authority.
comment Frm JCOKE
Im very glad to have come a cross you relection.Your auement is based on the fact that when God intended to do a a miracle, He never also intended to break the Law.
I love your a guement that even Jesus when He was on earth, He never broke the law but He had come to fulfil the law.
He surely came and lived among men but He never broke the law for God respect what He has made.This is a pure inspiration thought that we have been learning in class and as discussed in the book "Understanding the Scriptures"
Remembering from the class discussion, i have to understand that God does not break the law of nature when He wants to do amiracle because He is the one who had put the laws of nature in place.As you have said, it is therefore true that Jesus live and respect the moral law and laws of nature.This is a great lesson for us to learn.
Renee D. Sims Assignment #2 TCCOS Chapter 4 -Is EGW biblical?
I must say that the author puts forth a strong explanation of his stance regarding a biblical EGW. I can agree that she follows the principles outlined in previous chapters description of “how” to read God's books but forgive me for still being a little confused. I looked up the meaning for biblical (just to make sure that I had it right) and realize that there are many books that I read that I feel could be classified as biblical based on information provided in this book so far. So what exactly is really trying to be established in this chapter? Maybe it’s just me but I feel there is an underlining tenor of more. If it is a reinforcement of belief in extra-biblical book (thus to support EGW), then fine. If this is the case then we need to ensure that we do just practice while evaluating other non-biblical writers, but I fear that this won’t be done. It’s as if we feel that EGW is the only extra –biblical voice out there. If we give credence to other extra-biblical sources so that take away from EGW’s ministry? Just tossing out questions that are running through my mind?
I probably have not clearly stated my confusion on this chapter and may repost at a later time. I welcome feedback.
ASSIGNMENT 5
When I was reading Dr.Martin Hanna’s book,”Cosmic Christ of the Scripture” I would identify the divinity in place in the Bible. Yahweh is Lord Det. 6.4,Love God your God,, vs. 5,Gene 1:26-let us make man in our own image, God said man has become one of us, Gen 3:22,Gen 11:6—8 God said let us go down and see man. These are some of the terms that show that there is unity in divinity. As well also in the time of baptismal of Christ, the father introduces His beloved son that He is well pleased (Matt 3:16-17).The the two persons of Godhead is heard however, the Holy Spirit is veiled but the time of His ascension Jesus mentions that He will send the Holy Spirit to come and make them understand all things.
When we see the tittles that are employed interchangeably, the son is called the wonderful counselor and everlasting father (is 9:6) and both the son and the father are given the name savior (Titus 1:3-4) and as Lord of Lords. The same way the eternal life is used with the father eternal father, and the eternal Spirit.
This shows that the Holy Spirit participated in these titles of mutual indwelling. This is what Jesus meant when He said to Philip “ if you have seen me you have see n he father. The father is identified as the father who has spoken through the son (Heb 1:1-2), and Jesus is addressed as the father..”your thrones, o God is forever” vs. 6. All the three God-head persons are very unique in their roles and functions.
Now we come to the topic of the humanity and divinity of Jesus. He was God fullness in head bodily (Col 2:9) and at the same time He was human full such that whoever confesses that Jesus came in the flesh, has the spirit of God (1Jhn 4:2) Jesus was tempted in all points as man is but yet without sin.
The story of the humanity of Christ is every thin g to us. Through the humanity of Christ, He lived a perfect life that we all who believe in Him are sure to be restored to the personhood of the lost humanity. For He was made like unto His brethren, tempted in all points yet without sin. He has left us a perfect example to follow.
In His humanity, he restored the church and gave the church gifts for ministering to one another till we all become perfect in the humanity of Christ. At the same time, we learn that through His humanity He has made it possible for us to be partakers of the divine nature which is the goal for God to have the unity of the human and divine. Jesus came in the human nature so that we might be partakers of the divine nature and dwell with Him in the fullness of divine nature bodily now by faith and as well when He shall appear in glory.
comment on the arguement of my sister Renee D. Sims above.Yes i agree with you that if the people agree to read extra-biblical books as inspired,as well they need to read the writings of Ellen White.For they will come to realize that she was inspired even more that some of the extra-Biblical writers.For example the Roman catholic regard so much the extra-canonical books which are not part of the Hebrew canon.If we study this books, we fine that they are nooks which have the History and events that happened in palestine.SO the Catholic consider them as the books of God.They should also use the hermaneutics methods of interpretation of this White books.Therefore i consider my sister's comment.Thanks so much for your new comment in this blog.
class reflection on 3oth Dec.2010.
1Cor 11:5-12.
In this class discussion, i was very impressed on the issue of head covering and women and men identity.It is true that Paul was addressing both issues of women and women identy.On one hand Paul was showing that men arenot to cover their heads when praying.But women wought to do the same.Men were created as the image of God as well as women have the image of God.But in the same identity, the woman should admit that Man was created first.However,they were both created in the image of God.It is with Love that we can read this message and agree that husband and woman should have mutuality in doing all.
Post a Comment