In reading chapter two of Whidden’s book Ellen White on Salvation, I found it interesting that the perfectionist “holiness” fanatics had such an influence to shape Ellen White’s teaching on salvation and sanctification.
When I was doing my undergraduate degree at Walla Walla University, I worked with a pastor in one of the local churches who had had a run in with an Adventist brother who claimed to have achieved perfection. One Sabbath in an adult Sabbath School class, this man said, “Do you believe in perfection, pastor?”
“Yes, I believe in what we call Christian perfection.”
“Well I haven’t sinned for five years. What do you think about that?”
“All I know,” the pastor replied, “is that the Bible says that he who claims to be without sin is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”
The man made some kind of scowl and didn’t say much else for the remainder of the class.
Sometimes people who become confused on the issue of complete perfection may be more or less harmless. I suspect that more often, though, such claims ultimately lead to fanatical perversions of Christianity. One couple at one of the churches where I interned had a number of years before been involved with an offshoot-group-turned-cult. The leader, a former Adventist pastor, had claimed that through a special process a person would become completely sinless and one of the 144,000. From that point on, the person could not sin. Unfortunately, the leader, who later declared himself to be the messiah, led people into all kinds of debauchery under the pretense that since they had been perfected, these actions were not sin.
This seems to me to be nearly identical to the fanaticism that Ellen White faced early on in her ministry at the Indiana campmeeting. Much of this early holiness fanaticism, if I remember correctly, dealt with declaring a person to be completely sinless, and then engaging in debauchery since such sinful desires could not possibly actually be sin.
What is important for us to remember is that as we come closer and closer to God in sanctification, we see more and more from his holy perspective instead of our own sinful one. Our sin then becomes more clear and repulsive. Thus, in opposition to what seems to be experienced by perfectionist fanatics, sanctification will result in the awareness of more sin, not less. This is not to say that as we come closer to God we must feel worse and worse about ourselves. But whenever I find myself equivocating or downplaying the significance of some temptation or sinful habit in my life, I take it as a warning sign. Sin does not seem as repulsive as it once did, something must be wrong!
It would have been nice if Whidden had described more clearly the fanaticism Ellen White faced and just how her work combatting it shaped her future discussion of sanctification and holiness. It seemed to me that he merely noted that it did shape her discussion, without telling us how it shaped her discussion.
Arthur Jennings Doctrine of Salvation Martin Hanna, Ph.D. August 29, 2010
Reflection Paper/Assignment1
The course and main topic of class is salvation. So what is salvation? It is topic that must be examined through many different aspects. In class I learned that salvation is not what I/we can do to be saved but instead; it is what God has already done that I/we might be saved. Ellen White’s early ministry was a reflection for the case of salvation. She sought forgiveness for her sins but after hearing one William Miller’s lectures she felt unworthy to be called a child of God. Ellen felt she would be lost if Christ came back and caught her in her current state.
I, myself have felt that way many times and have carried the burden with me as a Christian when I drifted away from Christ. I began to ask this question all over again- What must I do to be saved? It is easily to forget that salvation is the work of God and not the work of man. Ellen was terrified of the thought that she might die and be eternally lost until she learned she had been depending on herself for sanctification as most of us do. After Ellen was baptized she heard Miller’s second lecture and felt a lack of holiness that she would need to be saved. It appears that Ellen White was no different than myself and any other Christians on her thoughts and feelings concerning salvation.
Ellen was waiting on her ‘perfection’ to take place because it was taught by the Methodist Church that sanctification followed forgiveness and justification which was to come instantaneously and be confirmed by the Spirit’s witness. She believed it was happening for other members but she later realized that they were hypocrites. I too felt that I should be perfect when I came from the watery grave of baptism but it did not take long to realize that my thoughts and actions had not changed much if any at all.
Ellen would realize as I/we all do that sanctification is not a work of a moment but that of a lifetime also; perfection is not asserted or achieved by human being as sinless triumphs but sought after through the growing in Christ, faith in the Blood of Lamb at Calvary and the returning of the Resurrected Lord cleansing us of sinfulness at Glorification. This is salvation at work through and by the Holy Spirit, father and Jesus Christ.
How do we obtain this knowledge? By reading and studying our bibles. It is by the ‘Gospel of Jesus Christ’ that all mankind might gain knowledge concerning the salvation of God through Jesus Christ which is known as the Gospel. . As in class, I/we learned that the Gospel is God’s power to save. Salvation is the action of the tri-une God of heaven. It is the bidding of the Father, work of the Holy Spirit and is centered in the ‘Cross of Christ-the incarnation and resurrection of Christ’.
I/we should study as Paul studied the Old Testament because the gospel is the good news about Christ. Paul says “For I am not ashamed of this Good News about Christ. It is the power of God at work, saving everyone who believes-Jews first and also Gentiles. This Good News tells us how God makes right in His sight. It is only through God/Trinity that salvation is possible (start to finish faith in God) and not through the work or proclivity of any man. It is the Obedience of Faith we live by because faith and obedience go hand and hand.
Arthur Jennings Doctrine of Salvation Martin Hanna, Ph.D. August 29, 2010
Response to Ryan Kilgore Assignment 1
Ryan these are both interesting stories, the first story caught my attention because I too have experienced a similar situation between a pastor and a visitor. Unfortunately the misunderstanding concerning perfection from the man was met with hurtful though true words from the pastor. Ellen White was confused by William Miller’s lecture too concerning holiness and perfection but she later learned perfection was not to be claimed but rather sought after as a way of life (chapter 1). Maybe the pastor should have taken a different approach by talking with the man in private or explaining in laymen terms how the bible interprets and explains this sensitive topic.
On the second story, Please do not get me started on the stories I have heard concerning the 144,000. This type fanaticism in our own church has caused many members to leave and join many other so-called non-denomination churches. There is not clear understanding even among pastors about the 144,000 which is why this situation occurred. I agree that as we come closer to God we view ourselves from His perspective; in addition; I would like to add that God Perspective comes from a place of love which creates in us a new heart and a right spirit. We should learn from these two stories to be prepared to explain, teach (topics of perfection and justification by faith) and minister in the love of Christ to all who Christ places in front of us.
I appreciated what Ryan said about the dangers of fanaticism, and how people tend to see themselves as perfect as they think they are progressing in sanctification. But so true that when people really move forward to being more Christ-like they see more and more from His perspective and should become ruthlessly humbled with their human-sinful(not sinless)ness.
Assignment 1 Reading Whidden made me think of Alden Thompson’s book, Escape from the Flames, which deals with Ellen White’s developing view of God and how He had at first seemed to her a vindictive being bent on damning unworthies, but as life progressed and her understanding of God’s love developed she eventually saw Him as the Savior pictured in Steps to Christ and The Desire of Ages.
I had previously not known about the influence of the Methodist holiness movement and it made me wonder if Phoebe Palmer may have been a significant role model for the young Ellen.
Ellen’s sense of unworthiness jumped out in her experience at the Buxton camp meeting and expression of a desire for death, which she “coveted,” and how possibly suicidal emotions (though this is purely conjectural!) and religious fears plagued Ellen and how “human” this shows her to be, showing her experience as someone ministering next to us rather than somehow above us.
I wished there had been more about the Buxton camp meeting since it seemed to be such a turning point in Ellen’s religious experience and how the emotions she felt there seemed to finally make her feel acceptable to be baptized. This intrigued me because it seemed that she felt she had to be “good enough” to admit that she was not good enough and needed Jesus’ blood to cover her shortcomings. It made me think about the experience of many people today who feel they have to reach some sort of spiritual peak to come to church, get baptized or serve. This idea of worthiness causes some to not partake of communion since the Bible says we should not partake of it “unworthily,” though this pertains to method, not the state of our hearts.
I feel that this sense of “worthiness” or “unworthiness” is at the root of most of our misunderstandings about salvation. We feel we have to be good enough to accept God’s free gift. Unfortunately, in reaction to this past attitude many people have moved to a form of cheap grace that leads to passively “accepting the gift of grace” and sitting back in a recliner. Grace frees us from feeling that we can earn our salvation, but the One who has offered Himself freely on our behalf calls us to follow Him in reaching out to the hurt and lost of the world.
I see grace as similar to being told that free tickets are being offered to a concert by a school’s student association (for which someone Else paid the dues). The tickets are available at the student center for any who would like them, there is no limit. However, you must get the ticket yourself (no one can pick it up for you) and get it before the concert as there will be no more tickets available at the event. All you must do is actively go get the ticket that has already been paid for (you did nothing to earn it!) – but sitting back in your recliner and expecting a ticket to be waiting for you when you arrive will leave you sadly disappointed.
Response to Arthur Jennings, Assignment 1 Arthur, Very good comments and reflection on salvation and how it was experienced by Ellen White. You noted that it is by reading and studying our Bibles that we obtain the knowledge of salvation. This is the gospel. As I read your comments I was reminded of one of my favorite Bible texts, 2 Cor 3:18, “And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever–increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit” (TNIV). It is by beholding God’s character that we are transformed. This character of love is seen most distinctly in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Let us be drawn to him, growing every day to be more like him.
In response to Ryan Kilgore comment about the sinless perfection perspective, I will begin by sharing my personal life experience. In the high school, I joined a Christian group called “Christian Union”. The central theme of this group is “christian perfection!” “…ye shall be holy for I am holy… Lev 11:44; “Be ye perfect as your heavenly father is perfect…Matt 5:48” the SU as it is fondly called became the dominant Christian fellowship recognized in so many schools including institutions of high learning. While I became part of this group, I realized that there was a strict dressing code, members became bonded to themselves “Friendship with the world is enmity with God” so, there was the distinction between those who are supposedly of the “world” and not. Personally I felt that my commitment, and dedication to this way of living has earned me an automatic access to salvation. Reasons being that we “SU’s sees ourselves as practicing the holiness of God as such we have attained the level of perfection that the bible talked about. This is true of our identifying mark as we share testimonies of when we became “saved” with actual dates, events, and time. Little by little I came to realize that sanctification is not “once saved always saved” but a daily process. The question is can we claim that we have been saved? That is where justification comes in, absolutely! We do not do anything to merit our salvation. This is a gift bestowed on us, since we now have this gift it is made appropriated unto us. We live, not because there is life in us but because we found life in Christ. Now it became clearer to me that, it’s not in the dressing codes, segregation, “ religious profiling, those saved or not” not in anything I can do, but only through the merit of Christ Jesus. A quote from Ryan's comment “we come closer and closer to God in sanctification, we see more and more from his holy perspective instead of our sinful one” this sounds more like the SU ideology to me. it brings back the feeling of effort, works, profiling, that once I was practicing in my former christian group. I would rather that as I spend time in the presence of God that is already made available for me, I have realized a genuine transformation of character, and the dividend of such time is the fruit of perfection in me.
Michael Anyim Reflection Paper/ Response #4 Doctrine of Salvation Dr. Martin Hanna
In response to Ryan Kilgore comment about the sinless perfection perspective, I will begin by sharing my personal life experience. In the high school, I joined a Christian group called “Christian Union”. The central theme of this group is “christian perfection!” “…ye shall be holy for I am holy… Lev 11:44; “Be ye perfect as your heavenly father is perfect…Matt 5:48” the SU as it is fondly called became the dominant Christian fellowship recognized in so many schools including institutions of high learning. While I became part of this group, I realized that there was a strict dressing code, members became bonded to themselves “Friendship with the world is enmity with God” so, there was the distinction between those who are supposedly of the “world” and not. Personally I felt that my commitment, and dedication to this way of living has earned me an automatic access to salvation. Reasons being that we “SU’s sees ourselves as practicing the holiness of God as such we have attained the level of perfection that the bible talked about. This is true of our identifying mark as we share testimonies of when we became “saved” with actual dates, events, and time. Little by little I came to realize that sanctification is not “once saved always saved” but a daily process. The question is can we claim that we have been saved? That is where justification comes in, absolutely! We do not do anything to merit our salvation. This is a gift bestowed on us, since we now have this gift it is made appropriated unto us. We live, not because there is life in us but because we found life in Christ. Now it became clearer to me that, it’s not in the dressing codes, segregation, “ religious profiling, those saved or not” not in anything I can do, but only through the merit of Christ Jesus. A quote from Ryan's comment “we come closer and closer to God in sanctification, we see more and more from his holy perspective instead of our sinful one” this sounds more like the SU ideology to me. it brings back the feeling of effort, works, profiling, that once I was practicing in my former christian group. I would rather that as I spend time in the presence of God that is already made available for me, I have realized a genuine transformation of character, and the dividend of such time is the fruit of perfection in me.
Michael C. Mickens Doctrine of Salvation – 1 Paul’s letter to the Roman Christians is very telling of his burden and concern for them. But it also expresses Paul’s burden and concern for a proper understanding of the Gospel in light of the Hebrew Scriptures and the recent act of Calvary. Paul’s gospel is Christ centered and salvation oriented. His message cuts directly against the culture of his day and the prevailing views about God held by both the Jews and the Greeks. Of particular significance to Paul in his letter is the importance of faith. Apparently his readers did not understand “the true nature of faith” and were in danger of taking God’s grace for granted. Paul seeks to re-orient the understanding of his fellow believers in Rome toward a Christ-centered, faith oriented understanding of God. I was personally intrigued by Paul’s emphasis on the Gospel. Paul appears to be very intentional about presenting the Gospel as a divine message from God the Father. According to Paul the Gospel is from God through His servants the Prophets and the Holy Scriptures (Rom. 1:1-2). Paul is also very clear about the content of this Gospel, which he boldly proclaims as the promise concerning God’s Son Jesus Christ (2-3). Paul wants his audience to know that the Gospel which he has been set apart to preach is all about Jesus (3-4). This is important for Paul for several reasons. First, Paul hopes to establish the divine origin of his message (1-2). Secondly, Paul intends to establish the divine nature of his message (3-4). Thirdly, Paul desires to establish the divine purpose of his message (5-6)), Fourthly, Paul wants to establish the divine mandate of his message (14-15) and Finally, Paul whishes to convey the divine goal of his message (16-17). Paul wants the Roman Christians to know that his gospel message comes from God, is about God’s Son Jesus Christ, is intended to produce faithful obedience among all the nations, to the Greeks and the Non-Greeks, to the wise and the foolish, to the Jews and to the Gentiles, to all of God’s children in Rome Paul declares the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is the power of God leading to salvation for all those who believe. Through his gospel message, Paul declares that the righteousness of God is revealed (vs. 17).
Reflection on class discussion about Christ's nature and Romans 1.
I see in the nature of Christ a model of what God wants to do in us. Christ "was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead" (Rom 1:3-4). Christ was a perfect blend of the divine and human. The struggle we have with sin is not just from what we do but from who we are. Our problem is much deeper and more personal than simply our actions. This is why Jesus said that we must be born again. Our natural selves, our flesh "is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be". Like a dolphin with no hope of flying because of its nature, we have no hope of overcoming sins in our sinful nature.
"Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.'" (John 3:5-6).
Furthermore we have no hope of changing our nature on our own, flesh only gives birth to flesh, dolphins only give birth to dolphins, sinful natures only produce sinful actions. This struggle against our nature I see as being characterized in Romans 7, meeting its climax in verse 24, " O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?" We are our own problem and we need someone to save us from ourselves. We need a Savior outside of us to come into us, we need to be born of the Spirit, we must be born again. Almost beyond belief God has promised to give us, to be in us that new nature.
"His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2 Pet. 1:3-4)
Through the promises in God's word we can be partakers of the divine nature! We too are to be a blend of the human and divine, with Christ in us the hope of glory. As we abide in Christ, and He abides in us, God delivers us from ourselves and frees us to live by His Spirit. We become by the Spirit not just children of men but children of God (Rom. 8:14-16 and 1 John 3:1-2). It is this dynamic that makes the divine human nature of Christ so beautiful to me. Christ is a model of what God will do in us. The new heart that God promises to give us is His own. Like Christ we can become living temples of the Living God. This new nature, this divinity, is never our own, it is never ours to possess. Christ possessed divinity, and still does, we however have the privilege of opening ourselves up to the indwelling of that divinity, so that we can also be born of the Spirit. Praise the Lord for our Savior Jesus Christ!
I see in the nature of Christ a model of what God wants to do in us. Christ "was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead" (Rom 1:3-4). Christ was a perfect blend of the divine and human. The struggle we have with sin is not just from what we do but from who we are. Our problem is much deeper and more personal than simply our actions. This is why Jesus said that we must be born again. Our natural selves, our flesh "is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be". Like a dolphin with no hope of flying because of its nature, we have no hope of overcoming sins in our sinful nature. "Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.'" (John 3:5-6). Furthermore we have no hope of changing our nature on our own, flesh only gives birth to flesh, dolphins only give birth to dolphins, sinful natures only produce sinful actions. This struggle against our nature I see as being characterized in Romans 7, meeting its climax in verse 24, " O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?" We are our own problem and we need someone to save us from ourselves. We need a Savior outside of us to come into us, we need to be born of the Spirit, we must be born again. Almost beyond belief God has promised to give us, to be in us that new nature. "His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2 Pet. 1:3-4) Through the promises in God's word we can be partakers of the divine nature! We too are to be a blend of the human and divine, with Christ in us the hope of glory. As we abide in Christ, and He abides in us, God delivers us from ourselves and frees us to live by His Spirit. We become by the Spirit not just children of men but children of God (Rom. 8:14-16 and 1 John 3:1-2). It is this dynamic that makes the divine human nature of Christ so beautiful to me. Christ is a model of what God will do in us. The new heart that God promises to give us is His own. Like Christ we can become living temples of the Living God. This new nature, this divinity, is never our own, it is never ours to possess. Christ possessed divinity, and still does, we however have the privilege of opening ourselves up to the indwelling of that divinity, so that we can also be born of the Spirit. Praise the Lord for our Savior Jesus Christ!
I see in the nature of Christ a model of what God wants to do in us. Christ "was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead" (Rom 1:3-4). Christ was a perfect blend of the divine and human. The struggle we have with sin is not just from what we do but from who we are. Our problem is much deeper and more personal than simply our actions. This is why Jesus said that we must be born again. Our natural selves, our flesh "is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be". Like a dolphin with no hope of flying because of its nature, we have no hope of overcoming sins in our sinful nature. "Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.'" (John 3:5-6). Furthermore we have no hope of changing our nature on our own, flesh only gives birth to flesh, dolphins only give birth to dolphins, sinful natures only produce sinful actions. This struggle against our nature I see as being characterized in Romans 7, meeting its climax in verse 24, " O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?" We are our own problem and we need someone to save us from ourselves. We need a Savior outside of us to come into us, we need to be born of the Spirit, we must be born again. Almost beyond belief God has promised to give us, to be in us that new nature. "by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2 Pet. 1:4) Through the promises in God's word we can be partakers of the divine nature! We too are to be a blend of the human and divine, with Christ in us the hope of glory. As we abide in Christ, and He abides in us, God delivers us from ourselves and frees us to live by His Spirit. We become by the Spirit not just children of men but children of God (Rom. 8:14-16 and 1 John 3:1-2). It is this dynamic that makes the divine human nature of Christ so beautiful to me. Christ is a model of what God will do in us. The new heart that God promises to give us is His own. Like Christ we can become living temples of the Living God. This new nature, this divinity, is never our own, it is never ours to possess. Christ possessed divinity, and still does, we however have the privilege of opening ourselves up to the indwelling of that divinity, so that we can also be born of the Spirit. Praise the Lord for our Savior Jesus Christ!
Reed Richardi Response to Ryan Kilgore's Assignment # 1
I appreciated Ryan's comments. I agree greater Christ-likeness should lead a greater aversion to sin and greater humility. I believe that as we grow toward Christ-likeness we will have far less confidence in ourselves and far more confidence in Christ.
Paul begins his letter with greetings to the Romans, who he has tried to visit many times but was hindered for many different reasons, towards the end of his greeting Paul tells the Romans that he is not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ for it, is the power of God at work, saving everyone who believes the Jew first and also the Gentile. I would like to expound on that statement for a minute. There is a great need for the gospel in its truth and beauty to be told as it is. Unfortunately I have witnessed too many times the gospel of God watered down to please or maybe just to present it in a lighter version so not to step on any toes. The gospel as Paul has declared to the Romans is the power of God. It in its own beauty, it possesses power to heal, transform, and even to save those who are under demonic attack. Many I believe have forgotten that the same devils that were possessing individuals in the days of Jesus did not go away and disappear from this planet, on the contrary the bible speaks different Matthew 12:22 says that he cast the devil out of the demon possessed man, but it does not say that he rid the devils from this planet. Also if you continue with the passage you would see what kind of position the poor man was in from being possessed by the demon (he was blind, nor could he speak and when Jesus rid him of the demons he was able to do both again). Further Mark 5:1-20 also speaks of a man possessed by demons, when Jesus spoke to the demon he told Jesus that there were many in the man (not just lone), and Jesus having mercy on the demons after they begged him not to cast them into the a distant place, cast them into a herd of pigs. My point is that the gospel as Paul has declared has not lost its power, it still holds the same transforming, healing power today as Paul believed it did in his day. Further my friends Paul also say’s that God is angry with those who do not present his gospel in its truth, those who suppress the truth of his word are considered wicked in the eyesight of God. Many have said that it is the responsibility of those to read and get the truth for them selves.
I do not dispute this fact for Paul further say’s that they will have no excuse, nor will they be able to blame anyone else but themselves for their negligence. Paul also say’s that while they are trying to make excuses there is none for the glory of God is all around us in plain sight, for the heavens, and earth declare the majestic glory of God. Through creation all around us you are able to see the majestic beauty, and glory of God. The trees in the fall how they turn to beautiful shade of color, the flowers that grow naturally of all beautiful shades and colors, just looking the clouds how they sit in the sky, Oh my dear friends I can go on and on! But the truth of the matter is that no one not one will have an excuse for their negligence of knowing God. So let us remember as Paul reminds us that there are consequences to every action, the Jewish nation a nation chosen by God and was protected by God. He walked with them and talked with them through prophets over and over again, begging them continually to turn from worshiping idols, things that possessed no power. But they rejected his counsel, rejected his authority, and rejected his love till eventually out of love because God is not one to force himself on anyone who is does not want to be apart of him, gave them exactly what they wanted and Paul say’s he abandoned them to do whatever they wanted to do. Because of the withdrawal of the spirit of God they no longer valued the purity, holiness, beauty, that God Spirit possesses instead they became children of Satan, possessed by demons. As a result their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip, and the list goes on. I conclude that people who possess such a character are not portraying the loving character that I know of God possessing instead, it is clear they exhibit traits of one who hates the character of God and chooses to reject everything that is good about him
I conclude that people who possess such a character are not portraying the loving character that I know of God possessing instead, it is clear they exhibit traits of one who hates the character of God and chooses to reject everything that is good about him. In conclusion Paul say’s that people who portray this time of character do not keep it all to themselves but instead they want to share it with others, so they teach other to do the same. In my opinion Paul is trying to get us all to understand that there is power in the word of God, there is no need to water down the gospel, for it reveals God’s power, merciful character, and his love for his children. Paul also is attempting to convey that there are consequences, when we reject the majestic authority of God, and the end results as were for the Jews is not one to be desired. Nancy J. Thomas
I really enjoyed your personal reflection on the life of Ellen G. White as it relates to her salvations experience. I particularly appreciated the connection you made between Ellen G. White and other believers. I too have found myself feeling as you mentioned, feelings of hopelessness and despair. I have often found myself wondering if I was truly saved. However for me it was more in the since of acceptance rather than assurance. For me acceptance has always proceeded assurance. Although I've always been able to recognize the Gospels message of saving faith and assurance of salvation through Jesus Christ. I have often wondered whether or not I was accepted by God. Whether or not God was pleased with me. To me its quite one thing to know that the Bible says that we are saved it is quite another thing to know that we are saved. To know that we are accepted by the Father and that we are both loved by Him and pleasing to him. The bible tells us that God the Father was pleased with the Son prior to his sacrifice on Calvary (Mathew 3:17). This speaks volumes to me because it demonstrates that God was well pleased with who Jesus was (God's beloved Son) apart from what he did (Death on a Cross). I believe that if this is true of Jesus it is also true of us. As each one of us are the beloved children of God (Eph. 5:1; 1 John 3:2). Therefore, we can proclaim bodly with Paul, that we are not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth (Rom. 1:16)... not to those whom we preach, but to us who are preaching also.
#1 In my beginning commment the word I intended to use was "Ellen G. White's salvation experience."
#2 In another comment I intended to say that "To truly know that we are saved, is to know that we are accepted by the Father and that we are both loved by Him and pleasing to him."
#3 In my final statement I intended to say "not only to those whom we preach but to us who are preaching also."
I really appreciated your comments and the way you linked up EGW's experiences in her day with some of the things that are (unfortunately) still happening today. I also thought of Alden Thompson as well! I'm curious to see where the text we are reading takes things.
The last part of your post brought up questions for me. I would like to gain a better understanding in this class of whether we need to actively seek God, or if we need only to respond to (not push away) his actively seeking us. Probably it's both, but I would like to have a better grasp on this issue.
“I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.” (Romans 1:16) This verse has been on my mind since our discussion in class last week. I love that Paul just comes out and says, “I am not ashamed”, he leaves no doubt as to whether or not he is completely sold out and committed to the gospel and the sharing of it. He has been changed by the gospel of Jesus Christ and as a result he cannot keep it to himself, he wants others to experience Christ the way he has experienced Christ. I also am glad that I waited until now to write this reflection paper, because my class this morning, Revelation, Inspiration, and Hermeneutics, made me think a little bit more and a little differently about the subject. Dr. Canale was speaking about the power that is referred to here in Romans 1:16 and giving ideas as to what that power is. He explained that the power is the message of the gospel. Also the power is in the sharing of the gospel because the power cannot be felt if it is not spoken or revealed to you somehow. If this is the case it places a huge emphasis on witnessing, sharing the gospel with others. The gospel is “the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes” and no one can believe without being told. In other words others cannot be saved without us as Christians revealing the gospel, the story of Jesus Christ and His sacrifice, to them. If it is the “salvation to everyone who believes”, then for them to believe, we must believe. We have to be completely sold on the fact that not only does Jesus Christ have the power to save, but that we know it is true because Jesus Christ has saved us, we have personally experienced this power. Often when we think of Christ saving us we look to the past, at least I fall into this sometimes; viewing it as something that I have experienced rather than something I am experiencing. Everyday as Christians we should be just as excited and in just as much awe about the fact that we are saved in Christ as we were the day He first called us. Salvation is something so beautiful, and it is beautiful because every day we can experience the power of the gospel in our own lives. We too, should be able to confirm daily that we are not ashamed of the gospel and that we are feeling it’s power daily. And because we are experiencing that power daily we can’t help but share it with others daily as well. I once was asked the question, “when was the last time you had a meaningful conversation with a stranger?” All to often my answer for that question is not what I want it to be; unfortunately the meaningful encounters with strangers don’t happen enough. And I define a meaningful interaction with a stranger as one where somehow I was able to share with them, even if in a small way, the gospel of Jesus Christ and that by my words and actions I was able to display that it does indeed have power to save. I am thankful that we get to take a class a on salvation and discuss the beautiful plan of redemption, to see how God has not stopped at anything or held back anything to save us.
I love how you have pointed out that we need not water down the gospel. I have been in the situation also where I want to share, but not offend and try to not come across to strong and as a result come up lacking. I really like how you pointed out that the power of this message is just as powerful as it was in Paul's day. This is something that definitely should be remembered and that we should live as though we believe it. Thanks for reminding us.
There are full of mysteries and hard-to-understands in the book of Romans in regards to salvation of God. Probably, debate over issues like Christ’s nature, process of salvation, Paul’s time of conversion in chapters 7 and 8 will never end before the second coming of the Lord. Among these difficult issues I want to talk about how Paul’s idea of salvation, ‘the righteous will live by faith’ in shown Romans 1 relates to the article, Ángel Manuel Rodríguez,- ‘Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White’, in terms of ‘salvation through one Man’. Human misery and suffering all come from one man’s disobedience which is regarded as SIN and from that time on no perfect communion with God has been possible so, humankind was doomed. But Jesus Christ who is one with God the Father decided to save us and he showed his love and salvation on the Cross. But here’s my point of this article. If a person can have salvation by faith in Jesus Christ, does it mean that Adam lost his privilege by losing faith in God? In other words, whole point of salvation from eternal death resulted by sin is about faith in God. To understand this deeper, let’s turn our eyes on the cross where Jesus died for all human. There Jesus showed us how he obeyed God and God’s commandments which is love in total faith in God. This is completely opposite scene of Adam’s disobedience in the garden of Eden. Adam showed us how he disobeyed God and abandoned faith in God. ‘We have reason for ceaseless gratitude to God that Christ, by His perfect obedience, has won back the heaven that Adam lost through disobedience. Adam sinned, and the children of Adam share his guilt and its consequences; but Jesus bore the guilt of Adam, and all the children of Adam that will flee to Christ, the second Adam, may escape the penalty of transgression. ‘ [FW 88.3]
Obedience to God and his commandments is inevitably related to having faith in God which is the subject of Great Controversy.
Assignment 1 Slavation Rom 6:16, 18-20,23 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness…for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
I like to write. Many times when I write it is on Biblical themes. I am not a true typist but the world’s fastest 2 finger typist. Having this to my advantage it is always amusing to me that when I type the word salvation it many times is typed “slavatation”. I have to go back and correct it, because that is clearly not a word. As I have begun to reflect in Romans, I came across the above passage, where the word servants, or doulos, is used to describe all humanity. We are either doulos of sin or doulos of righteousness. I find it interesting that Paul calls us slaves of righteousness. To be saved is to be a slave of righteousness. A slave has no choice but to obey, not right but to obey, no power outside of submission to his master. His identity is based in submission to one more powerful than him. Sin or righteousness: both are more powerful than I. Being the child of African and Native American decent, the concept of being a slave of anyone is repugnant to me. I have been taught to believe in freedom, independence, autonomy, self-governance. These appear to be completely contrary to the reality of the Bible. I am not stronger than sin, but its slave. I am not stronger than righteousness, but its slave. My only choice is to choose whose slave I want to be. The issue is the master and what he offers. Sin gives you what you earned: death. God as my master gifts to me eternal life. He does not give me what I deserve, but gives me a gift. He is the good, benevolent master to whom I chose to enslave myself to.
Response 1 @ Nick Clark Nick I greatly appreciated the how you pointed out that Paul was completely sold out on the gospel. The idea of being sold out to/for Jesus has become fashionable but lack power, practically because the legalists will say that sold out to Christ is conformity to the law, while liberals will cry “grace” with no moral compunction to change or obey. Paul however has been arrested by the power of God, and this arresting has so radically revitalized his life that he must share it with Jew and gentile alike. Thank you for reminding me that it must be a daily reminding to me that I am to continuously experience the power of God’s Christ.
Hey Nancy I enjoyed how you tied the historical narrative of Israel into the personal framework of Paul's writing. I think it is an appropriate parrallel. I have always felt that Israel represented a paradigm through which the believer could more clearly see themselves. I believe this is strongly supported throughout the Bible. Furthermore, I agree with your sentiments concerning the watering down of the Gospel. I have often tried to uphold the high standard of the Gospel message. However, I have also faced tremendous challenges in communicating the Gospel in settings where people were unfamiliar with the basic tenets of the Christian faith and were also challenged in understanding basic biblical concepts. However, I realize that the continuing challenge is not to water down the Gospel message, but rather to continue to search for ways to make it plain and simple so that even a child need not err. I think that this comes with a deepening relationship with the giver of the message and continued experience in sharing that message. When that messages becomes personal to the messenger it becomes more natural to share with others.
What is Salvation? How can one be saved? Numerous beliefs are being taught today, among the Christian community regarding the work of Christ in our salvation. It is often taught that justification is earned through works. "Every time that error is advanced, it will work for good to those who sincerely love God; for when the truth is shadowed by error, those whom the Lord has made His sentinels will make the truth sharper and clearer. They will search the Scriptures for evidence of their faith. The advancement of error is the call for God’s servants to arouse, and place the truth in bold relief." The Signs of the Times, January 6, 1898. The reason for the disagreement is simple, Ellen White reveals, "The enemy of man and God is not willing that this truth should be clearly presented; for he knows that if the people receive it fully, his power will be broken." The Review and Herald, September 3, 1889. Catholics teach "by grace alone" (sola gratia). Catholics believe they are saved by their works which come from grace, according to their teaching. Protestant biblical doctrine is based on justification by faith alone apart from works. Christianity teaches justification apart from the merit of works. Justification with God is apart from the merit of works. That does not mean that justification is apart from the existence of works. In order to increase Christian unity I would find the common ground, why the need of salvation, and build a foundation from there. I look forward to exploring this implications of Paul's Gospel, the Gospel of God, and the magnitude of SALVATION.
Did Paul know the extent of His writings, yes this letter is to the Roman Christians. What he wrote, did he intend the letter to also alleviate, and enlighten more than the Roman Christians. How could he measure the "divine purpose" if he was only writing to the Roman Christians? You stated "His message cuts directly against the culture of his day and the prevailing views about God held by both the Jews and the Greeks." I believe that we can expand and say that words that were spoken in his time, have continued to minister. If Paul had a grasp of the BIG GOSPEL that he was preaching, do you think he would have changed any of his writings?
Chester Clark III Doctrine of Salvation – Dr. Hanna Week 1 Reflection
This week’s reading included the first chapter of Romans, in which Paul, after an introduction and thesis statement regarding the power of the gospel, begins to lay the stage for the why of the gospel.
As an evangelist, Paul knew that before the amazing gospel of Jesus could be of relevance to his audience they needed to perceive a need. Luke 18:9-14. “The Lord can do nothing toward the recovery of man until, convinced of his own weakness, and stripped of all self-sufficiency, he yields himself to the control of God.” Desire of Ages, p. 300. In the first and second chapters of Romans, Paul points out the lost condition of mankind – as evidenced in the remarkable deviancy of a wicked world.
I enjoyed the reading of Whidden’s commentary on Ellen Harmon’s experience in seeking assurance. Having only recently studied the “Second Blessing” theology, it was enlightening to see how this prevalent thinking of her day may have influenced her own personal experience. This chapter neatly made the connection for me.
A number of observations struck me as I read her story. First of all, we must recognize the powerful influence that one’s theology has on their religious experience. Some seem to feel that theology and doctrine isn’t really all that important – just faith in Jesus. But the faith in Jesus that we will exercise will be shaped by our theological understandings.
Second, while the sense of need for “entire sanctification” which Ellen Harmon possessed may have been based upon a false expectation of an instantaneous experience, her quest for a closer walk with Jesus indeed brought her to a point in her experience where she found assurance in Him. Today, I think Adventists tend to be reactionary, and, responding to the human tendency towards legalism, dismiss any lack of assurance as being a lack of faith, a religion of works, or a misunderstanding of the gospel. It is sometimes urged that if we have accepted Jesus as our Savior (as Ellen had when nine years-old) we should be assured of our salvation without further questioning.
But could it be that a quick dismissal of personal heart searching and seeking to make sure one is right with God might actually lead to false assurance? Might one’s own heart-surrender be superficial or intellectual, but not genuine or sincere? Does not Paul insist that this self-examination is a personal responsibility (2 Corinthians 13:5)? With what criteria should this self-examination proceed?
I believe that in the coming chapters of Romans Paul will be seeking to awaken in the minds of his religious and spiritual readers that they are in fact lost despite being in the church (either the Jewish or Christian) if their lives are still being lived following the flesh rather than the Spirit.
Chester Clark III Response to Reed Richardi, Week 1
Reed,
I really appreciated your practical application of the nature of Christ, and what it means to us! Like the human nature of Christ was united with the divine (constantly from his birth, unlike any of us who have sinned) our human nature can (and must) too be united with the power of divinity! What a blessing to be reminded of this privilege. Thank you!
I also appreciated how you further defined this indwelling of divinity, and reminded us that it is an abiding relationship with God, His infusing of Himself in our soul temples, and that while we partake of the divine nature we do not become divine. In this way Jesus was different than we can ever be, since His divinity was His own.
Thanks for responding Jasmine. I can definitely appreciate your point about the "Big Gospel" but I would caution us to remember that Paul's specific purpose was not theolgocial, and he wasn't merely offering a human philosophical perspective on the problems of his day. Paul was first and foremost a Pastor and an Evangelist. Thus his letter primarily reflects the concerns of a Spiritual Leader rather than someone attempting to make an impact on the history of Christianity. Although we can look back and see the significance of his gospel today, its important to remember the context in which that gospel was first given. By doing this we definitely don't dimminish Paul's gospel rather we elevate it to its proper status by recognizing the significance of its impact on the people of its day. But I must agree with you that today Paul's gospel is truly a "Big Gospel" and continues to have unique significance and relevance for the modern culture of the 21st century. The last thing I would remind us of is that overall Paul's gospel message changed lives in his day and continues to change lives today. In the words of one who stated it so eloquently almost 2000 years ago "it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Rom. 1:16)."
Oh and about Paul changing his gospel... He'd probably change the characters of the story... But I'm almost certain the the basic story would remain the same... lol
Dario Ferreira Doctrine of Salvation Assignment #1
After doing the greeting (1:1-7), introduction (1:8-15), and to present the subject of the epistle (1:16,17), Paul introduces his letter to the Romans, making an invitation to a self-exam, with the objective of waking up a deep conviction of the sin and the desire and the need of liberating of the condemnation (1:18-32). In the verses 28-32, speaking to the gentiles the apostle Paul presents the terrible sin condition and condemnation in that they were. They live deliberately in the sin and they will be judged (1:32) for they have despised the knowledge of God (1:28). In other words, for they live deliberately in the sin and they practice all types of inconvenient things (1:29-31), they would be already condemned, even without they hear the message of the Gospel it was not the grace of God through Jesus Christ. Along the book of Romans, Paul develops the theme of the salvation demonstrating that so much, gentiles and Jewish, as all of the men are in the sinners' condition, lacking of the justice and peace with God, just gotten by the faith in Jesus Christ. In the verse 28 we found, for the third time, repeated the expression "God gave" them. That expression is finds in the verses 24 (Impurity), 26 (Shameful passions) and 28 (depraved mind), seemingly, expressing the same idea - all are related to the degradation resulting from a sinful disposition. Would God be inducing such men to the practice of inappropriate things? The last part of the verse 27 clearly explains that delivery of God, in other words, receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. Using the same beginning of the law of the sowing and of the crop, where the people pick exactly what planted. It is as if God had given them to the power of the sin for removing any preventive action, leaving them totally given to the baseness of a sinful mind without any divine intervention. The indulgence with the sin and the depravity in those individuals arrived at such a deep level that them not only makes the evil, but it approves the ones that practice it (v. 32). Nowadays, many of the most terrible sins have if tornado forms of entertainment. People, today, have fun in the sin, they motivate other to follow his example and mutually, not only approve his sinful practices, as well as they join to practice them. When reading "Ellen's White on first two chapter Salvation" of Whidden, I was impressed with Ellen White's spiritual sensibility since their infantile years. I believe that the whole suffered crisis for her own salvation, it contributed to an understanding clear, wide and deep of the theme of the salvation. Ellen White received for inheritance the Methodist vision of the sanctification, but she didn't have the sense of the acceptance of God. That process, of crises and more crises, helped to see the truth of the justification more clearly for the faith in a balanced way and to prepare her to face the negatives confrontations with Holiness fanatics. When reading Ángel Rodrigues' presentation regarding "Adam and the Race in the Writings of E. G. White", I noticed how explanatory they are Ellen White words regarding the results of Adam's fall and the initiative of God sending Jesus to save the human race. Above all, I would like to detach some points that a lot impressed me. - The sad reality and the great magnitude of Adam's sin: "The results of Adam's sin cannot be fully comprehended by us because the magnitude of the damage it caused i not totally apprehended by us".… "Adam could not transmit to his posterity that which he did not possess. (p.2) - The human and divine strength of Christ guarantee the victory for us: "Because man fallen could not overcome Satan with his human strength, Christ cam from the royal courts of heaven to help him with His human and divine strength combined". Wow!
I agree with Young suh, when he said: There plows full of mysteries and hard-to-understands in the book of Romans in regards to salvation of God." It is really difficult to know that Paulo wanted to say, in many verse of Roman. I don't know if one day we will know… I found interesting another aspect said by Young: "If the person can have salvation by faith in Jesus Christ, donate it mean that Adam lost his privilege by losing faith in God? In other words, whole point of salvation from eternal death resulted by sin is about faith in God." Not to live for the faith is to live independent of God. And to be independent of God, it is to be in the sin, totally separate from God.
Assignment #2 The reading from Whidden is what intrigues me the most of the three required readings since it seems the freshest, but I decided to read all of Romans this week and that brought it more “freshness” as well. I planned on reading it all in one sitting, because it is a letter and that is how it would have originally been intended, but I ended up breaking it into two sittings. It was helpful to get the whole argument, and seeing the progression from chapter to chapter showed me that he was slowly revealing his points and that any text, especially from earlier in the letter, taken out of context could be grossly misinterpreted. One such example towards the very beginning is the transition from chapters 1 to 2 where there is the idea that you shouldn’t accept certain actions at the end of chapter 1 which seems to open the door for judgmentalism if gone about incorrectly but then chapter 2 starts off with an exhortation to avoid judgmentalism. Also, the shift from showing that gentiles are sinners to the fact that Jews are also sinners and that all of have fallen short of the glory of God brings extra impact to this idea. I think it is vital that we, at least sometimes, read the Bible methodically and with the original audience and purpose in mind and try to put ourselves in that mindset to best glean the principles and teachings that can be applied to our lives today. I was surprised in Whidden that the decade leading up to 1888 already showed a shift in Ellen White’s thinking that precipitates what took place. I had previously thought that her shift had been mainly through investigating the topics that were causing so much turmoil and then coming to new realizations through this. However, it seems as if this was all more of a process that had already been under way and was just catapulted by the events associated with 1888. Another interesting point I had not previously been aware of was that many of the holiness and perfection persuasion moved away from the Bible and had “very little use for the Bible.” I had thought that they would have been the type of have large portions of scripture memorized but not having taken it to heart, but to see that they were really just going off on their own tangents makes it seem as though there may have been precursors to some sort of new-age thinking involved in their disoriented thinking. Also, to think that they would not pray the Lord’s Prayer because they did not feel that they needed forgiveness seems fanatical to me, but I guess that is why we call them “fanatics.” Also, the 1883 GC session section was new to me and very interesting, it truly is an under-noticed aspect to this whole debate of salvation in the context of faith-works. I am always happy to see the balance of Ellen White in her beliefs and writings, and wish that we would treat her with more balance today and put to use the principles she has to share with us.
I liked your use of the word crisis when looking at Ellen White's early experience, and also your thought about how this affected the joy with which she would view justification later in life. It seems as though it is through the struggle she had early in life that she was able to find the joy and relief in being a forgiven sinner that underlies Steps to Christ and the Desire of Ages.
I also liked your use of the terms deep and wide for later understanding she gained from these experiences. It amazes me how much our personal experience with God affects how we view Him, and how this can give us a special testimony to reach out to others.
Brian Baierl Assignment #1 Salvation is the subject we are learning in this class. We have talked much in class about the various views of Salvation. Salvation has a variety of views from not just different denominations, but also within the denominations. I was somewhat surprised at the basis of the book by Whidden Ellen White on Salvation. I thought it was going to be a general compilation of writings by Ellen White. I had no idea there was misinterpretation among Seventh-day Adventists on the subject. The sad thing it is focused on her writings and not what the Bible says. I enjoy Ellen White do not misinterpret me. For instance I will enjoy reading what she says about the subject of Salvation. I read the first chapter of Romans. The chapter is the beginning to one of my favorite books of the Bible. This chapter always dumb founds me when I see that they worship the creature instead of the Creator. I know it is easier to worship something you see physically, though if you know it is just a piece of wood or metal I would think it would lose its interest. The previous thought in the verse prior to the worship of creatures they perform a trade. I use to collect football cards and basketball cards. I would by packs and find out if I got someone awesome or some john doe. I would also look to trade for better cards amongst my friends. And what do they do? They trade the power, truth, and glory of God for John Doe. The sadness is compounded when the reader looks at the verse 16 of the chapter, “For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.” Here is the idea of Salvation that jumped at me; we should be looking to trade up for the gospel that gives life and transform our lives unto Salvation. I read in the BRI an article on 1st Timothy 4:10. I was lost for the couple paragraphs. I thought, where are they getting the term “specially saved.” I was confused. The fifth paragraph it made some sense that the Greek word malista could be translated as that is instead of especially in reference to the believers. Only then did some of the previous paragraphs make sense. It was also nicely summed up with the idea that Jesus’ atonement is for all, and the Salvation effect is limited that is to whom believe and choose the Savior.
I have the same problem with the fingers running into odd look words. I like to attribute it to a fast mind and slow fingers. A couple months ago I came across the same peculiar word usage by Paul. I am caucasian so I may not have the feeling the word slave exudes. As a converted Christian though I do. I have been a slave to sin. I was unaware, but none the less I was a slave. I like how you clarify the term of slave used. I felt the same way. I think also we have a tendecy to switch masters more than we like. I pray everyday to follow the master that gives life. You did a wonderful hermeneutics of the text.
As I read this week’s assignment, I pondered the reality that we face as human beings living on a sinful planet. The BRI article by Ángel Rodríguez especially stimulated my thinking. A pertinent question we might ask as we begin this semester’s study of salvation is this: why do human beings even need salvation? Furthermore, why do we need help from outside of ourselves to be saved?
The answer to the first part of the question is simple enough. We need salvation because we have sinned. When Adam and Eve ate the fruit, they disobeyed a direct and explicit order from God. In doing so, they incurred the death penalty and brought the curse of sin on the entire planet, including all subsequent generations of humanity. Rodríguez makes it quite clear that Ellen White’s view of the transference of sin was not that of the original sin doctrine (i.e. all humanity was present in Adam and thus shared in his guilt when he ate the fruit). Rather, Adam’s human nature became corrupted as a result of his sin, and thus he could only pass on to his posterity a morally twisted human nature. Rodríguez states several times that Adam could not give a sin-free human nature to his descendents because he could not give what he did not have. Thus we are all born with a depraved human nature, and we all sin, leaving us in need of salvation.
But what about the second part of the question? Why do we need help to be saved? Is there nothing we can do to save ourselves? Again, Rodríguez does a wonderful job of showing from Mrs. White’s writings the true state of humanity under the curse. When Adam sinned, he lost the power and dominion with which he had been created. The world and everything in it came under the control of Satan. Humans became his slaves. Adam and Eve could no longer choose their own destiny. When they were created they had free will, as illustrated by the test of the Tree of Knowledge. Adam and Eve exercised their free will and chose to eat the fruit. But in doing so, they lost their freedom. Now they could no longer choose whether or not to obey God. Rebellion became the default human condition, and now we are all born bent toward evil.
Romans 1 also illustrates the fact that sin brings captivity. Paul describes the condition of wicked men: “their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened,” “they became fools,” “God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity,” “God gave them over to shameful lusts,” “[God] gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done” (Rom 1:21, 22, 24, 26, 28). Sin only brings more sin. Left to ourselves, we will continue to sink deeper and deeper into corruption.
This is why we need help from outside of ourselves. It is impossible for us to do anything to remedy our condition because we cannot resist Satan on our own. But praise God for the gift of Jesus Christ! Ellen White writes that on the very day they sinned, Adam and Eve were offered the gift of the Messiah, and thankfully for all of us they accepted it. Otherwise, we would have no hope today. Jesus stepped in and became the mediator of the human race. Thousands of years before Calvary, Christ began His work of saving lost souls enslaved to sin. Because Adam and Eve accepted the gift of the promised Messiah, God not only postponed the death penalty they were facing, but He also gave them the power to resist Satan. Although humans are still born under the power of sin, through Jesus we have the option of being freed from Satan’s dominion.
As I consider all of these things, I come to this convicting conclusion: we need Jesus more than we could ever know. Salvation began long before Calvary. The plan was in God’s mind from the beginning, and He put it into action in Eden. And Jesus is the center of it all. Not only did He die to save us, but He also provides the power to resist Satan so we can come to Him and be freed. Without Jesus doing that for us, we could not even accept salvation. We owe everything to Jesus.
Ryan, your comments on fanatical perfectionism were right on the money. What a dangerous thing it is for us to fool ourselves into thinking we’ve reached perfection. Your story about the fanatical cult vividly illustrates that. If it’s true that as we grow closer to Jesus our own imperfection becomes clearer, we’d better watch out if we start to think that we’re doing alright!
Another aspect of misguided perfectionism which I’ve observed is the tendency to become focused on outward behavior. Rather than seeing sin as something which corrupts us from the inside, radical perfectionists often view sin as outward behaviors. Thus when they observe someone else engaging in behaviors they have deemed sinful, they become critical and judgmental of that person. In a church I attended, one of the members invited a lady to come to Sabbath School to share her testimony of how God had miraculously saved her life after a horrific boating accident. This woman was not an Adventist, and she wore earrings. After the program, the man who had invited the woman to speak was approached by some of the church members. They told him that if this woman was to speak at church again, perhaps she should be asked to remove her earrings. How sad that these people were so focused on outward appearance that they failed to see the incredible walking miracle that this woman was! They should have been excited that she would come to their church and share what God had done in her life, but their only concern was the fact that she wore jewelry. According to what Jesus says in Matt. 23:27, God’s idea of perfection involves more than whether or not we’ve removed all outward appearances of sin.
Appreciate your post, and im glad to see many of my classmates are on the same page with you. I had not noticed how big perfectionism was until i came to the seminary and heard one of our fellow classmates addressing this subject, saying that ministers are not perfect anymore and how we have lost the "seeking of perfection" becoming "sinless." I reminded him of a few Biblical examples of biblical characters that sinned and God considered them perfect: Genesis 6:9 9 This is the account of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and HE WALKED WITH GOD. 1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am God Almighty [a] ; WALK before me and be blameless. Enoc who walked with God and was taken to heaven, David, a man after God's own heart. etc. Even though these men had sin (one got drunk, the other lied, the other one committed adultery and killed a man) God considered them blameless, upright, perfect. See, for man been perfect is equal to sinless. For God, he measures perfection according to the walk we have with him. Im so glad for the Bible and to see that there were men like me who had temptations and struggles. Im so glad im judged by God and not by men. Go ahead... try to be perfect... while you do that, I will walk with God : )
Assignment 1 Romans 1, Whidden ch. 2, “Adam and the Human Race in the writings of Ellen G. White”
Dr. Hanna talked at length about Paul’s understanding of the gospel. Paul says in Romans 1:16 that he is “not ashamed of the gospel”. And when I see this text it automatically seems to imply to me that others in his time and in our time may feel that the gospel is shameful in some sense, or weak in another. For he also says that it is the “power” of God unto Salvation; That God is able to save (present), and will save (future) according to the gospel of Christ. Shameful? Weak? These are not the adjectives that most Christians would use to describe the means or agent by which they have Salvation. However Christ and the cross by all other standards is just that. Christ can be seen as weak from a worldly point of view because He did not fight back, rebel, or escape. Shameful, because the cross by its very nature is ignominious and full of shame for it was used for vile offenders (Hebrews 12:1,2). But Paul resolutely proclaims that the gospel of Christ is “power”. That through Christ salvation is ours and therefore it cannot be weak, and neither can he be ashamed of it. And it is for everyone who “believes” not to all who “work”, but those that believe. The fact that we are completely saved and completely redeemed and justified by Faith (belief) in Christ is the cause for Paul’s most forceful declaration. I believe Ellen White Struggled with Believing the completeness of Christ’s atonement early on in life as well. According to Whoodrow Whidden, during her process of conversion she struggled to believe if she could even be saved. She was definitely confused in her understanding of justification by faith. And in my mind I do not fault her for her lack of understanding. Because I believe that when a man or woman comes in contact with the gospel, that it reveals to them how far they are from holiness, how different they are from Christ, and how undeserving they are of His awful sacrifice. In class this week we also talked about Past, Present and Future salvation. And in Angel Rodriguez’s article he talks about the fact that when Adam sinned, because he was the father and representative of humanity he brought sin to the entire posterity of humanity. However God offered him the opportunity to be saved in the first pronouncement of the gospel: Genesis 3:15. Adam accepted this blessed opportunity, but when he did, he did so for himself. He claimed the promise and believed it and accepted it for his life, but for us he simply secured the opportunity for us to choose salvation for ourselves. So in one sense we are already saved because of the belief in the gift of God after the fall. But we are being saved because it is our choice to accept the gift on a daily basis. But still yet salvation is future because some might argue that we are not literally and really saved until Christ literally returns to take us with him.
Alicia Johnston Assignment 1 (PS I thought I had posted this a week ago as I got the confirmation from the blog but only found out today that it did not post)
Reflection on Romans 1:
Something stuck out to me in verse 14. Paul says that he is indebted to everyone, Jew and Greek, the whole world. It is the same word that is translated dept in the Lord’s prayer in Matthew 6. We are to pray that we forgive our debtors. In other words, that we stop walking around trying in our bitterness and anger to make them pay the debt they owe us. When we let this go, we have forgiven.
Paul took it a step further, not only has he forgiven others, he has realized the full meaning of forgiveness, that you really owe God everything and he has forgiven you. This means that you are indebted to him and all of his children. But this isn’t expressed in bitterness and anger, but in joy at knowing you are able to give back when you have been given so much. It’s the other side of forgiveness.
The most amazing statement in this chapter is clearly the gospel statement. Paul says boldly “I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.” The gospel is the power. The power is not our faith. It is so easy to get caught up in having “enough” faith to be saved. It isn’t even about our faith. Our faith is not where the power to save us lies. It reminds me of a song by Caedmon’s Call with the words, “my faith is like shifting sand so I stand on Grace.”
The second half of the chapter is dark, scary, and makes me squirm a bit. I hate to think of these people who have so fallen away from God that they no longer know right from wrong. It is a strong warning. God honors our free will, even when it leads us away from him into idol worship and sexual immorality. To think that at one point they knew and understood that they were denying God, and that they turned away and now cannot even understand is so very sad. I think we all have moments of clarity in our lives, moments where God speaks so clearly we cannot deny it, at least for that moment. Then we are left to choose that clarity or lose it. I’m glad Romans doesn’t end there.
Reflection # 1 I’m really glad that the Doctrine of Salvation, though it is theological class, is based on the particular book of the Bible. It makes much more sense than just discussing of interdenominational or our domestic controversial issues. I hope such approach will keep us from burying into the technical details of the textual exegesis, and at the same time will protect us from getting lost in broad variety of theological interpretations.
As far as I understood Dr. Hanna, it is necessary for us to comprehend the introductory and conclusive passages of the epistle in order to follow the writer’s reasoning in between.
It’s quite interesting how Paul introduces Jesus Christ in 2nd and 3rd verses of the first chapter: “He 1) is come of the seed of David according to the flesh, 2) is marked out Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of sanctification, by the rising again from the dead” (Rom 1:2,3 YLT).
As Dr. Hanna pointed out, those verses are touching on the human and divine natures of Christ. So, I was curious, why Paul describes human nature of Christ as the seed of David. He definitely may identify Jesus, for instance, with
the seed of the women (Gen 3:15: “And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel” KJV),
or the seed of Abraham (Gen 22:18: “In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed”).
However Paul has chosen to identify Jesus as the seed of David (2 Sam 7:12, 13: “I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.” NKJ) Though there are many New Testament passages crossing my mind that identify Jesus as the New Temple of God or as the head of the church, which is the New Testament temple of God, I’m very curious to see how this concept is developed in the epistle of Romans.
It is not quite evident for me yet. But I hope, that by keeping this angle in mind, I’ll be able to notice something I’ve been missing so far.
I just finished reading chapter three of Whidden. This chapter makes me really appreciate our history of struggling with the doctrine of salvation. It seems like we did not take the easy way out, like many have, in oversimplifying things. If it really were that simple, reading Romans and Galatians would be a lot easier!
I think we have the Sabbath to thank for that. It has grounded us in the Old Testament. So many Christians look at the Old Testament as the time before Grace, but that is not true. The Old Testament was the authoritative source quoted by Paul when explaining Grace.
What I see as one form of oversimplifying the gospel is saying that it is only about Jesus’ death paying for my sins so I can go to heaven. I say oversimplify instead of twist or distort because this perspective is true, but in my view it is not the whole truth, maybe not even the primary truth. Jesus’ ministry was to save us from sin, which leads to death (spiritually and literally). If he came to save us from sin, then our continuing actions after/while experiencing salvation must matter, and they must matter a lot. If God cannot save me from my addictions, hate, and pride, then God cannot save me from my sin. I’m not saying it needs to be immediate, but that it should at least be a process (even if a slow process) that is begun.
I used to be a substance abuse counselor, and someone told me once that only addicts understand grace. Step number 1 for AA begins “We admitted we were powerless.” That is gospel! And that is the first step to healing. I am grateful that grace means salvation, not just for heaven, but for today and for all the things I am powerless over.
Yet even talking about this brings up all kinds of additional questions for me. Why do I sometimes struggle for years with sinful habits? Why does it require so much effort from me? How do people change when it does not appear that God has changed them (through therapy, community, etc)? There are a lot of things still to be worked-out for me. I’ll probably never work them all out, but I know enough to know that I can depend on God’s grace for today and tomorrow.
Assignment 1 Reflecting on the BRI of Adams fall, I think Manuel Rodriguez brings it home by saying that it was the worst disaster that could of have taken place on this earth. I don’t think we can possibly comprehend with our finite minds what really happened. God is so amazing that he risked everything to come and rescue us. Definitely the whole universe could now see that the character of God is love. Out of the immensity of the universe, out of all the planets, Jesus comes to ours, and he dies for us, an insignificant race who decides to disobey. What a reward it will be when we live with Jesus for eternity, the son of God will be part human forever. We had communication with God face to face! And we lost it, yet, God still wanted us. The interesting thing is that while God doesn’t need us, He wants to be with us, and while we desperately need Him, most of the time we don’t want to be with Him. Our new condition is to be slave to sin. This really stinks for me, I am 24 and I am tired already of fighting against temptations, I wish I didn’t have weaknesses, I wish I could be just in peace, body and spiritual. Apostle Paul tells us this fighting will be over when Jesus comes to take us home. I will not have to wrestle with my flesh no more or my thoughts, I will be pure, and it will come as the most natural thing ever. I can’t wait for that day to come. Just how we rebelled against God, the inferior creatures (animals) rebelled against us. "The inheritance of children is that of sin. Sin has separated them from God. . . . As related to the first Adam, men receive from him nothing but guilt and the sentence of death." I wish though that I could inherit from Adam holiness and purity. I wonder what I would have done if I was in his place. I will ask him what drove him to eat the prohibit fruit. He knew better than that. Was it love for Eva? Lack of faith? curiosity? I am glad I found this article because there are some Adventist, who still believe in original sin. This according to the article: “Neither do we find in her writings the idea that the sin of Adam was imputed to the human race. Adam's sin was his own sin, but it had a universal impact and negatively affected every member of the human race, who is now born in state of separation from God and unable to overcome the power of sin. He determined our fate.” Aren’t you happy that now Jesus took Adams spot? Jesus did it for us! What a relief.
I read that article this week as well. It made me think about what we may be passing on to the next generation. If Adam's sin is impacting us all these thousands of years later, how much influence must we have on future generations as well, for good or bad.
The other thing I was thinking is how different the view that Rodriguez presented really was from original sin. I'm not trying to make a judgement call either way. Original sin seems to be a very legal idea. What Rodriguez said was more about human nature. But either way, we still need a savior. Jesus saves us from who we are as much as from what we have done or what someone else has done that made us guilty. I'm open to the idea that it might be extremely important and I'm just not getting it :) I do think infant baptism is silly, and could be damaging if you think anyone who didn't have it is lost, but you could justify that under either system.
What I do think is a bigger issue is the difference between a strictly legal interpretation and a more holistic model. The legal seems to favor outward actions, whether it be sacraments or praying certain words, while if you take a holistic perspective on sin, then you have to take a holistic view of salvation as well. Jesus is about more than stamping our passports for heaven. Jesus died to make us new creatures.
Well, I must say it was a little bit of a challenge re-reading Romans 1 with a fresh perspective because we have recently studied this in Sabbath school and I was part of a great class on this chapter. Nonetheless, as I read I would say what impacted me the most as I read was what the professor had talked about in the first class. He emphasized Romans 1:16 and how the gospel was the ‘power of God’. This really helped me re-focus because for some reason if you were to ask me what the key verse was in Romans I would have said 1:17, “the just shall live by faith”. I have realized that the two do go together and that you cannot separate them however because my focus was on the second part (v17) I came to realize that possible I was thinking of my part in salvation before I was thinking about God’s part. Is this a sign that I was focused more on my ‘works’ or my part in the salvation process than God’s? Was I leaning towards legalism and focusing too much on me rather than God? Perhaps someone else can comment. Nonetheless, this was a great eye-opener because it brought me back to God and ‘the power of God’ being my primary thought. I appreciated the class lecture on this because if it had not been for that I think I would have kept on focusing on v17 rather than v16.
Hey Alicia. I didnt know name was spelled like that. I thought it was spelled Alishia.
Anyway, I suppose to leave two comments, and one needs to be positive.
Comment #1: Romans 1:14 never stuck out to me before, until you brought it up. I have a different look at it though. Paul felt indebt to people, as if he owed them a sermon of the gospel (vs 15). Many times we don't feel like we owe anybody. But what if I felt as though I did owe the people around me something? What if I felt like owed them the message of salvation?
Comment #2: Praise God that there is more to Romans like you said. There is hope.
Wayne Jamel Martin Hanna, Ph.D. THST540 Doctrine of Salvation 2 credits 06 September 2010
Weekly Blog Assignment #1: EVERYONE WAS NOT SAVED AT THE CROSS
Many people believe that when Jesus died on the cross, He saved everyone. Err!! Nope! Jesus death did not save everyone. Now, before you declare HERESY on me, hear me out, and maybe you won’t excommunicate me.
In the article, “Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10” Ángel Manuel Rodríguez argues against this philosophy of everyone being saved on the cross. He presents some very good arguments. I would like to add on some of my own arguments as well.
My first argument is that, people are, and will be, lost. Revelation 20:15 states, “whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” If everyone was saved at the cross, then we would not be reading in Revelation 20 about the lost being cast into the lake of fire.
Okay, many don’t have a problem with what I said above. People who believe that Jesus saved all at the cross would say, “Obviously some people are going to end up in hell, but the cross did save everyone, just some don’t know it yet and some haven’t excepted their salvation yet. They’re saved, they just need to believe it.” Seriously, that trend of thought doesn’t make sense. 2 Corinthians 4:3 talks about people who are “lost.” It wouldn’t mention that people are lost, if everyone was saved.
It is not a matter of people simply believing that they are saved in order to be saved. Acts 3:19 says, “Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out.” Before sin can be blotted out, before we can be saved, we need to repent and be converted. Cha-Ching! Right here, we have evidence that our sinned were not blotted out yet on the cross, therefore we were not yet saved, because the “wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23).
You’re probably wondering, what is the big deal? The big deal is freedom of choice. If we believe that we are saved without making that choice to surrender our lives to God, then we won’t realize the danger of sin in our life. For a problem to be solved, we need to realize there is a problem. The problem is that we are lost. Therefore we need a Savior.
So what did happen on the cross? A provision was made for the sinner (E. G. White, PrT, November 3, 1885 par. 11 / TMK 62.3). Jesus died, so we won’t have to die for our own sins. However, if we don’t do our part, it won’t count. We have to place our sins on Jesus, just like how the Israelites placed their sins on the lamb. The simple act of the lamb dying or even being sacrificed doesn’t mean a thing. The significance was the sinner placing his sin on the sacrifice. We need to place our sins to the sacrifice, which is Jesus. Jesus’ death is there, to be applied by those who repent. When we repent, Jesus is able to serve as our advocate before the Father (1 John 2:1). Jesus can save us from our sins, but we need to make the choice to allow His death to be credited to our account, and for Him to change our life.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and insights. It was a blessing for me.
Every point in your reflection on the nature of Christ makes a lot of sense.
There are many powerful statements in your post: “The nature of Christ is a model of what God wants to do in us.” Yes! The problem is not in our actions but in our nature… “Through the promises in God's word we can be partakers of the divine nature!” Amen “The new heart that God promises to give us is His own…” “Like Christ we can become living temples of the Living God. This new nature, this divinity, is never our own, it is never ours to possess…”
Amen, brother! Blessed are you, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you ☺
Nancy Thomas response to Tyler: I just want to say that the bible always grows when we read it. I promise you I love reading the O.T. and every time I read the story of Joshua along with the Israelite s at the wall of Jericho I learn something new that I never saw before. So Tyler just an encouragement keep on studying and take the whole bible in for there is power all through it- also congratulations on your blessing from the reading Nancy
Doctrine of Salvation 2 – Paul Takes Issues With Origins “Suspended in the Void” In Romans Chapter 1:18 Paul begins his argument with a decisive verdict followed by a scathing indictment. According to Paul the indictment is directed at wicked human beings who have attempted to cover up the truth about God through their false beliefs and practices. Furthermore, Paul seems to suggest that they are without a defensible argument to the charges that are being brought against them. In the case of The Common Wealth of God vs. The Wickedness of Human Beings, Paul seems to suggest that the overwhelming weight of evidence is on God’s side. Therefore wicked human beings have been weighed in the balance and found wanting. It is interesting to note that Paul frames his argument within the context of the Great Controversy. Now before you get the impression that I may be imposing this upon the text lets take a closer look at the actual structure of Paul’s argument within the text. In what appears to be the central thrust to Paul’s argument and central to the text itself, Paul states, “What can be known about God is plain to them, because God (Himself) has made it plain to them (italics and emphasis added).” And then he says, “since the creation of the world,” (attempting to demonstrate that this judicial matter dates all the way back to the beginning of time) “God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power, and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made.” Here Paul, persuasively argues that God as the Creator has revealed Himself to mankind and that His self-revelation of his invisible qualities as seen through His divine nature and eternal power can clearly be seen through his creation. Now this is extremely significant because Paul clearly intends to demonstrate that God is both divine and eternal, demonstrating that both his nature and existence are outside of the earthly realm and beyond the dimensions of cyclical time (kronos). Therefore, Paul sets up his argument in a way similar to the earlier philosophers of his day by suggesting that if there is a first cause then God must be the originator of such a cause, making Him the First born among all things. This causes Paul to conclude toward the very end of his argument that since God is the first cause or the originator of all things and since all things exist because of Him, then He rather than the creation itself is worthy of both our present worship and our eternal praise. However Paul’s indictment against the wicked is for doing exactly the opposite. He accuses them of neither glorifying God nor giving thanks to Him. Because of this Paul states that all of their understanding comes to nothing and their uneducated minds became further unenlightened. Apparently they thought themselves to be educated, but according to Paul they are really uneducated and their failure to realize the true state of their being makes their present situation all the more tragic. As one Seminary professor recently stated, they are “suspended in the void.” They have actually reversed the true nature of God as well as themselves. In fact, they have placed God in the place of man, and they have placed man in the place of God. Just as Paul stated, “they have exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal human beings.” What they have effectually done was to place God at the center of Humanity and they have placed man at the center of Divinity. They have repeated the very first sin; they have lifted up their head and have declared, “We shall be like the Most High.” (Note: Their interpretation of the cosmology viewed man as possessing God-like qualities and God as possessing man like qualities. In essence they have attempted to switch places with God and have God switch places with them. In other words they have attempted to dethrone God.)
Comment Continued... In their wretched sinful condition they find themselves worshipping the birds, the animals, and the reptiles. The very thing that God had given them dominion over in the beginning they have become subjected to. They have indeed exchanged the truth of God for a lie. According to Paul, this is the result of all those who chose to ignore the revelation that God has disclosed of Him self in the book of nature. Having once been appointed as Masters and Overseers they have become slaves placing themselves under the subjection of their own deceit and have thereby enslaved themselves to the vanity of their own lies. Therefore, Paul says that God gives them over to themselves, and thus they become the author of their own undoing, the powerless god’s of their own fate. They are “suspended in the void” of life’s most important controversy, the Great Controversy for their own souls. The indictment has been made and the verdict has been given, “the wrath of God shall be revealed from heaven.”
Comment on Michael Mickens "Who Shall We Worship" I thought I should be the first to reflect on my comments on Romans 1:18-25. I am currently taking a class called "Issues of Origins" some of you are in that class with me and others I'm sure are aware of the course offering. Anyway, I shared that because I saw a connection between our recent class lecture by Dr. John T. Baldwin and the above cited passage. As I looked at the text I realized the seriousness of Paul's words and the implications of his message. In fact, I believe Paul was suggesting that persons who deliberately distort the truth of God will incur the wrath of God. I want to point out here that Paul's message seems to apply to individuals who have a clear and direct knowledge of God and who intentionally attempt to cover up the truth about God. To me this has major implications although I don't think those implications are primarily theological. It seems more to me that Paul was making a "moral argument" here. Paul seems to indicate that individuals who misinterpret or misrepresent the creation of God could possibly be at risk of rejecting the creator Himself. In other words, by rejecting a proper understanding of creation they could potentially end up rejecting God and thereby falling into behaviors and practices that are self-destructive. Here is a clear instance when a person's theological reckoning could have major consequences on their moral behavior. Notice that Paul does not suggest that God imposes this on them but rather that he merely "hands them over" to their own desires. I think this has very serious implications for both believers and non believers alike. According to my understanding of Paul, a persons view of God as "Creator" impacts the manner in which they relate to Him as "Savior and Lord."
Lavina Seawright Assignment #1 I really enjoyed reading the RBI document on Adam. Coming from a Psychology background I always found the topic of salvation to be simple yet so complex. I couldn’t just wrap my head around it and pastors always seemed to make it sound so simple. I appreciate what Angel presents here, it was great reading about Adam and the human race and seeing the distinction between what Adam did as a rep for the human race and its impact. I think about my warped views growing up and my limited understanding as an adult and I realize even more so now that I still won’t fully understand. Coming from an honest place I can say that I see why Ellen was so torn up in about sanctification and perfection. With all that she was hearing and exposed to, there was a lot, maybe too much to take in and even absorb. But when she was able to hear about the love of God and that he was not as she previously viewed him. It makes me think about how many times I thought I was hopelessly doomed to hell and that even though I knew God loved me I felt like I had to “do something” or “be better” in order to really be saved. When Paul said that the gospel was the power of God, it forced me to contemplate God in a different way…trying to conceive how great his power really is it impossible for me but to see a measure of his greatness, what a blessing.
I really enjoyed reading your comment, not only because it was short...:o) but because it sounded like it came from a place that I have been. Realizing that you were missing something key that has always been there.
Your discussion on v16 & 17 and how you viewed it in terms of "your Part" was enlightening...it made me think about myself and how I look at things and brought me to a heightened awareness of it.
Thanks for sharing and for your honesty in your experience. I pray that you continue to grow deeper in your relationship with Christ and your understanding of his word.
Assignment 1; I read the chapter 1 of Ellen White on the Humanity of Christ because it is the foggy part in my understanding. As Pr. Hanna mentioned that human’s interpretation used to lead us to the wrong direction instead of wrong revelation from Creator. Therefore, I look for the prophet’s direction, prior to have the concept from others. Jesus Christ took the very unique God-man, it was and is a mystery part. We are limited for full understanding of Christ’s incarnation without revelation for Himself who has been existed unique form under the covenant for redeeming the lost. This special idea had been occurred to the trinity in the Council of Peace.(Zech 6:13) 1. The purpose of the unique form is to be the interacting-bridge between God and fallen human. 2. The dilemma of connection by bridge was big gap of difference in existence in God and fallen human. One is sinner, The other is sinless God. 3. Therefore, the bridge of connection to two-party needs both characteristics from each side in order that God could have gotten in touch with fallen human in capability of communication and restoration by His power. 4. The definition of sin which against to the law of God couldn’t have made Jesus sinner because He never had broken the law of God but He took sinner’s penalty and weakness. (to be continue…)
Dario Ferreira Doctrine of Salvation Assignment #2
When reading Romans chapter 2, I noticed that chapter was especially driven the Jews. After speaking in the chapter 1 about the gentiles’ depraved situation, Paul now, knowing the human nature and mainly the spiritual advantages of the Jews over the gentiles, it begins to question the automatic comparison and consequent judgment from Jews to gentiles, showing that any judgment should be made with base in the truth (Rom. 2:2). Under that aspect, they would also be judged by God. They were fair to the eyes of God, but in spite of they possess light regarding the will of God, they still practiced the same sins, even if underground. Paul made clear that Jews and gentiles are blamed equally and they lack regret. God doesn't make people's meaning and all will be judged, through Jesus Christ (Rom. 2:11,16). Paul speaks about the incoherence of the Jews that knowing the will of God and not practicing, they scandalize the heathens swearing the name of God. And it concludes saying that the most important is to do the will of God in the heart than just to act outwardly. That is the message of the Gospel - the power of God for the salvation of all that has faith". (Rom. 1:16)
Writing about “The Decade Before 1888” Whidden shows the balanced ministry of Salvation of Ellen white among Justification and perfection. Ellen white in the decade before 1888, already noticed against perfectionist fanatic, as well as against the preachers of the “cheap grace”. During the period when Ellen White was in Europe (1885-1887) we can see in their teachings about salvation an authentic balance emphasizing as much the justification as the obedience. More and more in her sermons and writings, she emphasized our acceptance through Jesus’ by faith alone merits. We can see the revelation of God clearly regarding the doctrine of the salvation, through Ellen White ministry.
To analyze the doctrine of universal Legal Justification, Larry J. Kane comments on of loving God’s initiative on man's behalf. In Romans 3 and 5, we understood that the justification brought by the grace of God is reached by the faith in Jesus and applied without conditions to all men that believe. It is evident that the Justification by faith contains both legal and experimental dimensions. God has been making the possible to rescue their creatures. He always takes the initiative for their children's salvation. Their efforts can only be impeded by the choice freedom of those that consciously choose to reject his Son's expiatory sacrifice, Jesus Christ, in favor of the human race.
I liked the way that you commented on regarding the transition from chapter 1 to 2. It is interesting that after speaking so much of the sinful situation of the gentiles, Paul begins the chapter 2 asking the Jews to avoid the judgment, showing that both Jews and gentiles are lacking of the grace of God.
I appreciated the prominence that you gave to the fact that the fanatic perfectionists did (and I believe that they still do today) little use of the Bible. That makes clear that the base of their convictions is not in the Bible.
Kevin Solomon Assignment 1 One of my cherished pursuits has been a desire to understand the dynamics of the gospel. I venture on this quest while doing my undergrad at Oakwood University. I plunged into the writings of John in an attempt to ‘get ‘the gospel. This proved somewhat fruitful but prompted more questions than answers. With all my reading and research, it was not until I picked up the all too familiar book, ‘Steps to Christ’ that I encountered Jesus and experienced his transforming grace. Upon reading the first section of the book, ‘Ellen White on Salvation,” I came to appreciate the framework in which Ellen White came to her understanding salvation. I was surprised to discover how aspects of Wesleyan and Lutheran theology framed Mrs. White understanding of the gospel. One of the first things that that stood out to me was the reality of Ellen White struggle with her assurance of salvation. This puts a human face on this mythical figure and highlights my experience and those of others within the church. As White later shared in her writings, when we sense the love and holiness of God, we come to see our own sinfulness, and our need of salvation. It is here that we must look away from ourselves to Jesus and through trust come to find peace and assurance in Him. Secondly, it is interesting to trace the development of Ellen White’s theology of salvation. Ellen White had a high view of sanctification and the need for holiness of heart and life yet her run in with the fanatical holiness movement sharpened her theology of perfection. Ellen White stressed that sanctification was the work of a lifetime; sinless perfection does not happen instantly, it is a process. Her theology was not static, or dogmatic, but well balanced. Ellen White’s understanding of the Gospel was historical, biblical, Christological, apologetic, and contextually relevant. This woman of God developed a Christ Centered understanding of salvation that practically aided others and addressed key issues. I pray that our experience and understanding of salvation will give us assurance in Jesus and equip us to offer corrective as well as consolation concerning the subject of salvation within our own contemporary context. Lastly in reflection on the class lectures and reading of Romans I truly appreciative the comprehensive approach to the topic of salvation in Dr. Hanna’s teaching as well as Paul’s view of the Gospel in my reading. I do agree with the professor Hanna that salvation is a process centered in the eternal purposes of God that is accomplished through Jesus who is God, coming in human flesh, dying on cavalry, resurrecting with power, seated at the right hand, atoning for my sins, as we wait in hope for our final redemption. Unfortunately I have been one to limit the gospel to just the cross event when there is a larger story in which all components are necessary and in which the triune God is active engaged. In my reading of Romans 1 Paul seems preoccupied with the Gospel, he is set apart for it, his ministry is constrained by it, and he is eager to preach it. According to Paul when it comes to the gospel; God promised it, the OT substantiates it, Christ is the substance of it, and the obedience of faith is its goal. Paul goes on to say that the gospel is the power of God, it reveals the righteousness of God, it hinges on the faith of man, and due to our rebellion it is the greatest need in our world. This gospel enacted by God, expressed in Jesus, experience through the Spirit, and eternal in significance. Such a gospel in its essence is the triune God’s response to our sin of rejecting God, by saving us from existence without God and granting us nothing less than God, as our greatest good and highest pleasure. For God Himself is the gospel.
In my reading of Romans chapter 2 one verse that stuck out to me was Romans 2:4 that says, “God’s kindness leads you toward repentance.” I love this picture that Paul is painting for us throughout Romans concerning the way that God is saving us. If we repent we are forgiven and usually all the focus goes to the fact that God forgives, and this is a beautiful and wonderful truth, but equally wonderful is the idea that God leads us to ask for forgiveness also. He is supplying everything we need, every step of the way He is moving on us and guiding us to Him.
I found the ideas presented in the online reading to be pretty interesting, the idea of legal justification. In my reading of that article and my reading of Romans 2 was drawn to Paul’s well-rounded view of righteousness. Romans 3:22 states that “this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.” If this was read by itself and a conclusion was to be drawn from it alone, it’s easy to see how believing is everything, it’s all you have to do to be justified. Then you have Romans 2:13, where Paul says, “for it is not those you hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” So, Paul is saying righteousness comes through faith, belief, in Jesus Christ, also in chapter 10 verse says, that “faith comes from hearing the message.” In other words hearing the message produces faith, and by faith we are justified. But then Paul adds that righteousness goes to those who obey the law in chapter 2. Paul is not preaching a “cheap grace”, but he is teaching that we are justified freely, and having been justified we will be moved to walk in the way of the Spirit, and all this is with the power of God to guide us. So, yes righteousness is given to those obey the law, but only those that have faith in Jesus Christ are moved to obey his law. And the difference is that those who have faith in Christ and receive His righteousness obey the law out of love rather than obeying the law to receive righteousness apart from Christ. It can’t be done on our own, apart from Christ the law does nothing for us, it only condemns and Paul is clear about this. This is definitely an awesome thing to study and gain more understanding of how God is saving us and how much He loves us.
Dario I really like how you pointed out how Paul's transition of focus from chapter 1 to chapter 2. And I like that you emphasized that having the will of God in our hearts is so important and that just doing things and going through the motions is not what pleases God.
Kevin Solomon Response to Tyler Tyler I appreciate your thought that many times we focus on our part rather than God’s part in our salvation. I have found myself here many times, focusing on what I need to do rather than resting in what God has done. The gospel indeed is the ‘power of God.’ I once heard someone say, that where we go wrong with the gospel is that we try to do God’s part while neglecting to do own part. He said, “I tried to do God’s part, the part that I wasn’t suppose to do and could not do(salvation), while ignore to do my part, the part that only I could do(faith).”
Doctrine of Salvation Reflection assignment 1 Sept. 2 I have read the essay on BRI Justification and the Cross. Analysis Rom. 5:12-21 the connection between justification by faith and the cross of Christ. Through sin of Adam death had access to the world. In heaven sin will rise up no more. It is sin that brought separation from God then the behavior problems as its consequence. In order to solve the problem we need to go to the root of the matter. One of the most important task as a spiritual leader is to establish in believer a living, meaningful spiritual relationship with God. Whether believer takes it serious or not is a life and death matter. May all realize that and have the spring of living water always flowing in them. Rom 5:12b In this way death came to all men, because all sinned. Author considers there is no reference here to the imputation of the sin of Adam to "all". There is clearly an element of solidarity with him, but it is a solidarity in result not in the act. The result is all men born separated from God and head to death. But latter he claim Adventist do believe that the sin of Adam weakened human nature making our sinning unavoidable. It seem Adam’s sin problem affect all human not just in the area of the result -- death but involve in our nature changed when we are born. This change of nature is certain not because we sinned (In our own way). When Adam sinned we do have something changed in Adam even before we are not born. The in Adam and in Christ paradigm still need further consideration. Response to Jasmine Thank you for your meaningful quo from E.G. White that when error comes, it still can be for a good purpose for those who sincerely seek God for an answer in order to vindicate Him in love. The power of enemy is lies on lies. If the truth is reveal, the hold of lie will be broken. We should know the truth and the truth shall make us free.
Doctrine of Salvation: Assignment 2 Adoption of Son-ship Rom 8:15-19 “For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.” I was a military man. I was used to taking order. I was used to giving orders. I was obedient when it suited me, but when it didn’t I would break the rules to accomplish what I considered to be the greater good of the unit. I would beg forgiveness before asking permission. I never wanted to be in the presence of my superiors. I wanted them to give me my orders and leave me alone (I still struggle with that concept even now). Then I got out of the army. I moved in with my pop. I was no longer soldier. I was a son. However, I was still relating to my father based on being a soldier. The army had made me a soldier-man, but not a son. My relationship with my father was strained because I was used to obeying master, and not relating to a father. So my father was master to me, and not a master that I was used to. He loved me. I was valuable to him because I was his son, not based on whether or not I accomplished the mission. It is with this concept that I approach the topic of adoption of Son-ship. According to Paul, when we come to Christ, we are choosing to become slaves of God. That is all we can choose to become: doulos of either God or Satan. Yet when we choose God, instead of the wages of sin at the end, he gifts us with eternal life in Jesus. Then, on top of that, Romans 8 informs us that we are adopted as sons, and joint heirs with Christ! Christ shares his inheritance with us! Now Christ is the unique and only literal son of God, and yet to be joint heirs with Christ implies that even though we are adopted, our share in the inheritance is equal to the biologically unique, divinely human, one and only Son himself. As the image of God we were created to call God master because he is the creator of all life; because of Christ we are now saved to call God father, as legitimate children. God dares the entire universe to challenge our claim to Him. Christ’s sacrifice of become human ties God closer to the human family that to any other created being in the universe. What a privilege: to be saved means that, because of Christ, humanity is higher than simply being the image of God. We are now God’s Family.
The Epistle to Romans is one of the most inspiring to me. It is at the same time one of the most challenging. The study of this Epistle turned the world upside down in 16th century. In my view the study of this epistle is going to have the same effect if we diligently will study it today. I am glad that this book is going to be the focus of our study this semester. The Prologue and Epilogue of the Epistle to Romans are clearly connected. The discussion about the call of Paul as the Apostle of Jesus Christ is not by accident. As Paul is talking in Romans 1:5 about “the obedience that comes from faith” we see that the Gospel is the power that requires the obedience. We meet similar expression in the Epilogue of the epistle. Every time I read such verses it reminds me about the power of God, that was able to resurrect Jesus from the dead. Paul is talking about the same power in both places. The power of God that was able to restore Jesus after death is all about salvation. If God was able to do it with Jesus (and Jesus as we know died with the second death) He will be able to save me from my mortal body. The power that brings us salvation refers to salvation not in the future only, but to our current lives. The resurrection from the state of sin was enabled on the cross of Christ and from there the power is breaking everything related to consequence of sin. The wave of the power of God enables people to live Christlike life, and it is all about the giver of Jesus to us. Thus the power of God that Paul is talking about is the power that he is not ashamed to preach about. Indeed you will not be ashamed to preach about something that makes people rich and prosper. The problem I see in today’s Christianity – we are not aware of the power of God that is able to restore any human being regardless to his/her situation and make them millionaires in spiritual life and restore their spirit from the one of sorrow to the one of endless joy. To that kind of joyful Christian spirit Paul is inviting us in his epistle. That is way he has this phrase: “the obedience that comes from faith.” We are not used to obey anybody(spiritual authority) today. We do not respect, nor we realize that obedience from faith is the one that brings us peace. In my life I see that times when I and sad and bloomy are the times when I completely forget about the power that is given to me through Jesus. When I realize that the same power that took Jesus from the grave is able to take me out of my sorrows and sins today easily my heart rejoices and becomes joyful again. Indeed we forget what we have. Indeed we cannot preach what we do not have. But if we want – the power of God is available 24/7. I wish I would always be able to say with Paul about the power of God that he was not ashamed to preach about. The end of the book of Romans says again about the power of God and obedience that comes from faith, that needs to be preached. We obey something anyway. Why would I be ashamed to preach about the obedience that brings people peace? If only I am not testing from that power daily – this is the only reason for being ashamed to preach it.
I am in complete agreement with you brother that the study of the book of Romans will turn the world upside down. The "both and" motif is so power: law and grace (gospel), obedience and faith (of faith), slaves and sons, etc. I too am glad that we are studying Romans this semester. I find it interesting that when we read about the obedience of faith, we tend to focus on the obedience part of the phrase. We are always ready to preach about obedience. The concern I have is that Paul, while describing the sin problem very effectively, does not begin to even tell people about practical obedience in any of his letters (as i have read them) until he has thoroughly saturated their minds with the reality that they are a new creature in Christ. he doesn't assume that they understand it or know it. He spends a large bulk of Romans, from chapters 4-12, describing the issues of faith as they relate to one's identity in Christ. He even takes the 2nd 1/2 of chapter 7 to discuss his personal failures at being obedient to the law while knowing the law intimately. It seems to me that preaching obedience for obedience sake, because obedience is the will of God, is futile to any human unless I spend a large portion of my time cementing their faith in the fact that they are new creatures, saved, having assurance, having access to the Divine, having all authority and power because they are in Christ, etc. it is from this faith-filled position that preaching obedience bears fruit of righteousness. All other preaching of obedience outside of such a faith focus appears to produce, pride, elitism, separatism, egotism, judgmentalism, legalism and any other "ism" heretofore not mentions lol
but anyway, i am not saying that you intend to preach any of the above stated "isms". I enjoyed your blog, and share your passion for seeing people realize the power of Christ to raise are dead, moral or literal into the newness of His life
Doctrine of Salvation Reflection assignment 2 Sept. 9, 2010 Michael Liu The chapter on the Significance and Meaning of Minneapolis and 1888 of the Book Ellen White on Salvation Ellen White said that there was an urgent need to uplift the subject of justification by faith in Christ’s saving merits and a deeper experience of the love and acceptance of God. Those who had justification by faith experienced a relief and blessing to their soul and felt the peace with God never before. She saw the church in a great crisis of doctrinal misconceptions about justification and failure to experience what the doctrine sought to describe. Her effort is to relieve the dry spiritual conditions of the Adventist. The material on justification by faith of E.G. White’s book form 1844 to 1902 roughly 45 percent of her entire writings. What she presented to people was “the matchless charms of Christ” The concept of an objective view of Christ – objective justification - advocating for us as our high priest was exploiting to its fullest by Ellen White before 1888 claimed by the author. Minneapolis was an inspiration to a great call for Christ-centered ministry in the setting of justification by faith. The charge of the emphasis on justification by faith is in the destroying the authority of God’s law. He replied this anti-law e=sentiments by stating “Let the law take care of itself.” We have been at work on the law until we get as dry as the hill of Gilboa … Let us trust in the merit of Jesus. Those fear of destroying the law was by those who had not heard all the lessons concerning justification by faith given. So what is the lessons she had in mind deserve further exploration. She replied the inquiring if the message of justification by faith is the third angel’s message, answered, “It is the third angel’s message in verity”. (1SM327) We Adventist were entrusted with the three angel’s message to proclaim means to include the message of the justification by faith also.
Response to Jinwook Thank you for bring out the statement of the trinity in the Council of Peace to clarify the purpose of incarnation of Christ. That document give us a fuller picture to wrestle on.
Reed Richardi Assignment # 2 Some thought from our classroom discussion on freedom as well as the BRI document Predestination, Foreknowledge, and Human Freedom. I think that most of us would agree that human freedom is one of the central issues in the topic of salvation. For quite some time now I have been desiring a better understanding of this topic. There are many statements in the New Testament (primarily in the writings of John and Paul) that deal with election and God's choice that I desire to understand better. It seems that we as Adventists don't talk about these texts very much. I found the BRI article helpful, but wished it was more thorough in addressing some of the texts about election. But there was an insight that I gained while reading the article is helping me in my thinking about predestination. I see the argument about predestination and election being primary about Who chooses for humans to be saved? Is the choice God's or the individual believers? I think the answer is yes, it is both. Salvation is a relationship with Jesus Christ (John 17:3). We need salvation because we no longer have right relations with God. Salvation is the reconciling of our relationship with God. Reconciliation takes choice and action by both sides of the relationship. This is why Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5:19 " that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them". But in the very next verse He adds "we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God". God initiated the reconciliation through Jesus Christ, but we must respond and choose to be reconciled in order for the relationship to be restored. It is this truth of God's initiation of reconciliation, that is helping me to understand better some of the texts talking about predestination or election. Because of sin our relationship with God was broken and because of our sinfulness we are unable to initiate the restoration of that relationship (sin makes us enemies of God Col. 1:21). Therefore God in His mercy and love took the initiative, He took the first step, sending Jesus to become the atonement for our sins. But we must respond for the relationship to be restored. God has chosen us but now we must choose Him (Josh. 24:15). This helps me to understand texts like Joh 6:44"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day". Jesus is not saying that the Father has arbitrarily handpicked some to come to Him and be saved. He is saying no one could ever choose the Father unless the Father had not first chosen us. God made the first move, and for that we are to be every grateful. While we do have a part to play and a choice to make, salvation first and foremost is God's act. He initiates, we merely respond. Praise the Lord that He has chosen us! Praise the Lord that before I ever even had a thought of Him, "while we were still sinners, Christ died us" (Rom. 5:8). "We love Him because He first loved us" (1 Jn. 4:19).
I agree with you that Romans is both inspiring and challenging. Thank you for your reminder of God's power which is readily available to all of us. The same power which caused the resurrection brings an amazingly new life to me. I want to live in His power and not my own.
Chester Clark III Doctrine of Salvation – Dr. Hanna Week 2 Reflection
Romans has always been one of my favorite New Testament books, and I’m reveling in the opportunity to study it again. I agree wholeheartedly with Ellen White when she says, “Every Christian has reason to thank God for that epistle to the church at Rome.” Sketches from the Life of Paul, p. 187. Exhibiting the skill that only a few preachers and writers ever attain, Paul weaves a theological dissertation together with an appeal to the hearts of his readers calculated to lead them to accept Jesus as their personal Savior in a more than merely intellectual way.
In this second chapter, Paul addresses the spiritual satisfaction that his readers (apparently mostly Jews or Jewish converts) had as religious people. After having set forth sins that he knew they would condemn (and probably were mostly innocent of), Paul’s asserts that as church-going, Bible-believing, good-deeds-performing Christians they were no less guilty and in need of a miraculous (and undeserved) salvation! It’s as if Paul wants to shock them into a sense of their need for a Savior (reality), so that the remainder of his treatise on faith and grace and election and representation and mission will reach not only their minds but also their hearts. Instead of reading his epistle with an eye on “the world that needs to hear these things” he desires them to read it with eyes opened by the Spirit to see that these things are relevant to their hearts.
It’s a message that we dare not gloss over lightly: it’s dangerous to be religious, risky to be spiritual. It was not without cause that Jesus informed the religious leaders of His time, “Truly I say to you, that the publicans and prostitutes will enter into the kingdom of God before you.” Matthew 21:31. When externally the life is upright and the reputation is intact, it’s easy to not recognize our daily, yes, moment-by-moment need of a Savior from our sins and sinfulness. For every religious leader or adherent who is “outed” by some scandal of sexuality, power, or greed, there are perhaps thousands of professed Christians who inwardly have accepted complacency towards illicit thoughts and worldly acclimatization. How many Adventists are teaching others they should keep the commandments, while choosing a pastime of watching murder, adultery, lying, and nearly every commandment being violated on the silver screen, not even wincing when the name of Jesus is taken in vain by the hero (or villain)? Is there that much difference, in the sight of God, between committing sinful acts and having “pleasure in them that do them”? Romans 1:32.
As Adventists we’re clearly not immune to this danger that Paul seems to be pointing out. It’s not hard for us to find reasons to feel better than the “heathen” world around us. Maybe it’s our “commandment keeping” one day a week. Perhaps it’s our vegetarian (or even vegan) lifestyle.
Ironically, while there are legalistic Adventists who apparently find spiritual security in their lifestyle, there also seems to be plenty of Adventists who find spiritual security in the fact that they aren’t legalistic about their lifestyle. Whether we pride ourselves in the things we do, or we pride ourselves in the things we don’t do, this pride of performance or position or theology displaces the comprehension of our need for grace and becomes a system of human attainment, human merit. What we all need is more humility and a greater sense of our own unworthiness (no matter what we do or don’t do). Only then will we have more of Jesus.
Chester Clark III Doctrine of Salvation – Dr. Hanna Week 3 Reflection
The critics of Ellen White would like us to believe that her theological teaching on salvation changed during her lifetime. I appreciate the balanced approach that Dr. Whidden takes in examining this subject. Having discussed it with him, and knowing him to be a believer in Ellen White’s prophetic gift, I appreciate his conclusion that the emphasis in her writings changed, though she was always sensitive to the balance needed between justification and sanctification. Obviously, one can err by focusing too much on loving obedience, so that subconsciously the lifestyle comes to be trusted as meritorious, as well as by focusing too much on justification by grace, so that the qualities of true faith are forgotten and the rather comfortable “cheap grace” experience is enjoyed. There’s a big difference between saying that her emphasis changed and teaching that her doctrinal position changed (or, of even greater implications, that the divine revelations changed).
Further complicating this matter is the fact that the prophetess was also a human – and her personal experience was not inspired or infallible. In other words, even after she evidenced the prophetic gift, she may have had experiences in her personal lifestyle which were out of harmony with the biblical reality of truth. As she learned truth, she grew as a person to reflect that truth, as we all must. Last week we read about her early expectations of a second blessing model of sanctification. This was an area of her personal experience where she clearly grew in understanding and practice as time went by.
Given the fact that the needs of the church changes over time, it is not surprising that the emphasis of the message also needs to change. Perhaps that is evidenced in the contrasts in the epistles of Paul, James, and John. The changes in understanding the law and salvation that would take place in the Christian church were even predicted in Revelation’s letters to the seven churches. Should it be any surprise, then, that the messages should need to be adapted to fit the times? Anyone with a pastoral heart who is genuinely seeking to bring his/her church to the balanced understanding of unmerited salvation and grace that works by love and purifies the soul will have to tweak their emphasis to the direction opposite the contemporary skew.
It’s one of the challenges I’ve had with those who insist the message of 1888 is the silver bullet that the church needs today. I agree that the message of righteousness by faith is what is needed today; what I struggle with is the assertion that the exact manner in which Jones, Waggoner, and White presented it is the manner still needed today. Let’s face it: the church has changed since then (or at least some of it has).
The power of the message of 1888 was that it was what the church needed desperately at that time. It was the biblical truth of righteousness by faith, with just the needed emphasis, impressed upon the minds of Jones and Waggoner by the Holy Spirit as they studied their Bibles and confirmed by the same Spirit through the testimony of Ellen White. The good news is that the same Spirit is still willing to impress the same truths from the same Bible on willing minds who will study it and seek for it. I’m quite confident that the same Spirit will also adapt the emphasis so that in 2010 it will be spot on the money for the situation in the church today.
But I may not get closer to this relevant balance by taking a class on the Doctrine of Salvation, or by studying and arguing the theological tenets of various scholars, or even by examining the personal spiritual journey of Ellen White. It’ll happen when I spend time on my knees, my Bible open in front of me, and my heart open to whatever God will show me, ready to follow wherever He will lead me.
And it might as well happen in each of us, while we’re taking a class on the Doctrine of Salvation. Can you think of a better time than now?
I read chapter 4 of Whidden this week. I really appreciate the context he is giving me for understanding Ellen White’s positions. I especially appreciate the comments about the influence of Methodism and the holiness movements on her developing perspectives.
I’ve known for a while and been able to tell the difference between post-1888 statements of Ellen White and pre-1888 statements. I didn’t realize that so much of her developing perspective and the change in emphasis started at least five years before 1888 and was influenced by her husband. That’s surprising to me because I thought that James White did not generally have as much of an emphasis on faith as Ellen White. I recall the story of the painting, that I’m sure you are all familiar with, that James white had done which showed various things such as the sacrifices, the law, and the cross all in equal aspect. Ellen White saw it and said it needed to be changed and had a new painting commissioned with a large cross front and center and with most of the rest of the scene in the shadow of the cross.
Another part of this chapter that I found fantastic was the mention of the fallibility of Ellen White as a person and her quote:
“I wish that self should be hid in Jesus. I do not claim infallibility, or even perfection of Christian character. I am not free from mistakes and errors in my life. Had i followed my Savior more closely, I should not have to morn so much my un-likeness to His dear image.”
More and more it seems to me that that humility, that willingness to admit our mistakes and confess our sins to each other, is one of the marks of being with Jesus. It is too rare. I think it is especially rare in leadership. Sometimes I wonder if people even want leaders to be humble and confess their shortcomings. I think there is a lot of pressure to appear holy and good, but that is not how we receive the blessings of God. Of course, there is a balance here. It isn’t good to always go around talking about how much you fall short, because it is also true that God has blessed and empowered each of us in amazing ways.
Assignment #3 Though it was short, Whidden’s chapter on the personal testimonies of James and Ellen provided many thought points. Reading about how James White had a stronger emphasis on Christ and His saving power was intriguing because, though Whidden didn’t mention it, as far as I know James never believed Jesus to be God. This came from his affiliation with the Christian Connection earlier in life, and actually the early Adventist church largely considered Jesus to be the saving Messiah, but not God. This makes me wonder about the debates that have raged throughout the history of the church and whether or not many who say Jesus is God believe in Him less or put less trust in His saving grace than do some who see him as the Messiah, but not as God. I also thought it was interesting how the chapter referenced the letter that relayed the dream Ellen White had of James after his death. It was interesting because I had heard of it before and had actually discussed it in a class in relation to the ways that people cope with death. If it weren’t for this past experience of this letter I might have read over this part without realizing the implications – Ellen White’s dead husband talked to her! But not in any spiritualistic sense, but through her memories and in a dream that was helping her through the loss. Many people who suffer loss experience something similar to this where the dead loved one talks to them in a dream and it can be a part of the grieving process working towards healing. I wonder if Ellen White’s focus on God’s love and grace after this time may have been influenced by a new reliance and hope upon Him, looking forward to a time when she would be reunited with her husband. Also, she may have gained a new perspective on what is really important in life which may have led to a great appreciation for Christ and less of an emphasis on what we humans do. Though this is all just conjecture, it is interesting to think about. In this chapter I noticed a couple of very clear quotes from the pen of Ellen White that stuck out to me. “I do not claim infallibility” and “no one is perfect.” It is a sign of her character that she was humble and saw that she was human like the rest of us. It seems like it is often those who claim they are perfect who are furthest from perfection.
I appreciated how you connected the picture with the information about Jame's White in this chapter. I had not thought of it when reading and found your comment helpful.
Also, I thought that what you said about leadership was quite insightful. It seems that there is a trend towards putting more import upon a leaders confidence than their humility. Ellen White never seemed to push for more power, and often seemed to try to step aside when people started putting too much authority upon her.
“A ruthless attack on Judaizers.” This is how I might title Romans 2.
The English idom comes to mind: The bigger they are, the harder they fall. As I read and re-read Romans 2, I found it hard not to cringe a little bit at the rebuke Paul issues here to those “who pass judgment on someone else.” Apparently, some self-righteous and prideful Jews in Rome are advocating the superiority of circumcised Jews who “have the law.” Paul’s response, especially in vv. 12-16, really stuck out to me. He says, “All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.” In other words, sin leads to judgment and destruction, regardless of whether you specifically had a “law” or not. But those who know that something is sin and still do it have also incurred judgment upon themselves. Sin has natural consequences for everyone, but it also has legal consequences for those who have the law. Simply having the law doesn’t make a person superior. This is what he says in v. 13, “It is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.”
Then Paul says, “Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts.” In v. 27 he says, “The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.”
How can these Gentiles, who do not have the law, and yet obey its principles, be compared to those who do have the law, and yet transgress it? Aren’t we who have more light and yet transgress worse off than those who have relatively little light, and yet live up to it? These Gentiles, Paul says, become their own law by listening to their consciences. “They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts.” This is New Covenant language! The promise of the New Covenant is that God will write the law on our hearts. If we are partaking of the New Covenant, we will “do by nature the things required by the law.” In this sense, these Gentiles are miles ahead, spiritually, of the Jews Paul is addressing here. He says, “You are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, and instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth…” (vv. 19-20). Yet clearly these self-righteous individuals are stuck in an Old Covenant experience, and need to be taught by the Gentiles!
These words should bring shame to anyone who has ever looked down on a sinner—a gentile, non-Adventist, non-Christian, whomever. The lesson I take from this chapter is that the only way to not be hypocritical and self-righteous is to humble myself before God, not thinking myself any better than any other sinner out there. All of us have sinned. If I am blessed with any more light than someone else, I only have that much more responsibility. My inherent goodness is not increased in God’s eyes.
“A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God” (vv. 28-29).
Chester, thank you for the thoughtful and piercing reflection on Romans 2. I especially resound with your concluding paragraph. Whether we harbor self-satisfaction in the good things we do (Sabbath-keeping, spiritual disciplines, or diet come to mind), or the things we don’t do (legalistic law orientation), we still need an about-face in our walk with Christ. It seems that a proper orientation to law and grace must produce an abundant level of authentic humility!
I have appreciated the challenges our professor has set before us in regards to the vast expanse of salvation. Before this class, I felt I had a somewhat clear understanding of salvation. After just a couple of classes now, it is obvious I am a mere babe! I look forward to expanding my breath and depth of knowledge and understanding upon the subject.
This summer I had been committing Romans chapter 1 to memory. It has to me a most precious chapter of Scripture. Yet, in my memorizing and reading I had not discovered the beauty and clarity as I have through what I have already learned in this class.
Verse 14 has become a precious verse to me…Paul sees his sense of obligation so great that he calls himself a debtor to the Greeks, Barbarians, the wise and unwise. How many of us have been in debt? I know I have. In fact, I’ve been in extensive debt, yet in each case I have been a debtor only to those whom I owe money. Yet Paul goes beyond that. He does not say that he is indebted to Christ, but to those who do not know Christ. This is amazing! The gospel truly transforms! How then could Paul make this statement? I believe the answer lies in verse 16 and 17 where Paul makes an unforgettable declaration…I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, “The just shall live by faith. What a testimony!
In reading Ellen White on Salvation, I was very intrigued by chapter 2. I was reminded of the influential power that example and experiences have upon all, especially the youth. And Ellen White was no different. Her experience of growing up in a Methodist home certainly shaped her view of God. And through a series of several experiences during her early teenage years, she came to embrace a relationship with Jesus Christ. The Methodist “second blessing” experience, The Buxton camp meeting, William Miller’s messages, and Levi Stockman’s comforting words greatly impacted her Christian journey and would lay the foundation for her as a Christian leader.
I also read “Justification by Faith: An Adventist Understanding” by Peter van Bemmelen. It was a refreshing read. He clearly showed the Old Testament foundation for justification by faith as taught in the New Testament. I appreciated his extensive “here a little, there a little” scattering of the “justification by faith” theme interspersed throughout the OT. His contrast of all being “unrighteous,” yet many being referred to as “righteous” was uplifting (p.3). I appreciated the way he handled a couple of individuals who refer to Seventh-day Adventists as a cult because of Sabbath-keeping. I admired his approach because he did not defend as an Adventist. He shared a section of the Second Helvetic Confession of 1566 and let it speak as the Reformers declared that stance upon the law of God (p.8). He then strings several passages of Scripture to show the law’s role for the Christian who is justified by faith. It was hard to believe the part about Francis Beckwith, the former president of the Evangelical Theological Society who rejoined the Roman Catholic Church (p.10) where “good works” are meritorious. He rejoined because he “found the Protestant view, which assumes that sanctification follows justification, inadequate.” Overall, I was greatly blessed by the reading.
I have appreciated the challenges our professor has set before us in regards to the vast expanse of salvation. Before this class, I felt I had a somewhat clear understanding of salvation. After just a couple of classes now, it is obvious I am a mere babe! I look forward to expanding my breath and depth of knowledge and understanding upon the subject.
This summer I had been committing Romans chapter 1 to memory. It has to me a most precious chapter of Scripture. Yet, in my memorizing and reading I had not discovered the beauty and clarity as I have through what I have already learned in this class.
Verse 14 has become a precious verse to me…Paul sees his sense of obligation so great that he calls himself a debtor to the Greeks, Barbarians, the wise and unwise. How many of us have been in debt? I know I have. In fact, I’ve been in extensive debt, yet in each case I have been a debtor only to those whom I owe money. Yet Paul goes beyond that. He does not say that he is indebted to Christ, but to those who do not know Christ. This is amazing! The gospel truly transforms!
How then could Paul make this statement? I believe the answer lies in verse 16 and 17 where Paul makes an unforgettable declaration…I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, “The just shall live by faith. What a testimony!
In reading Ellen White on Salvation, I was very intrigued by chapter 2. I was reminded of the influential power that example and experiences have upon all, especially the youth. And Ellen White was no different. Her experience of growing up in a Methodist home certainly shaped her view of God. And through a series of several experiences during her early teenage years, she came to embrace a relationship with Jesus Christ. The Methodist “second blessing” experience, The Buxton camp meeting, William Miller’s messages, and Levi Stockman’s comforting words greatly impacted her Christian journey and would lay the foundation for her as a Christian leader.
Thanks for your comments. I have appreciated that passage (Rom 1:16) for some time, but no two people have the same perspective.
We are to be bold and courageous. Your words reminded me of what EW wrote in SC..."No sooner does one come to Christ than there is born in his heart a desire to make known to others what a precious friend he has found in Jesus; the saving and sanctifying truth cannot be shut up in his heart. (p.78)
So I ask myself, "Am I still coming to Christ or did it only happen once?"
My prayer will continue to be,"God grant me the desire to keep coming to Jesus and open up opportunities where I can share you today."
My thoughts this week are on Romans Chapter 2. I have always found Romans chapter 2 to be a very a very interesting chapter. This is mainly because of what it says about the importance of what is in your heart and whether or not you are following that. I have always found this somewhat comforting but at the same time I have some questions. I find it comforting for the fact that it talks about those who 'do not have the law' yet still keep the law because it is written on their hearts. I have many family members who are not Christians (yet?) yet who are what you would call 'good people'. Their lives are upright and moral and what I would consider as 'law abiding' yet they do not pet say 'believe in Christ'. When I read this chapter it gives me hope because I think that because they are leading good lives they are are following the law that is written in their hearts, and that when the time comes for them to choose to follow Christ or not, it will be an easier decision for them because in a sense they have already been following Him. Thus I find comfort in the idea that "a true Jew is not one who is circumsized in the flesh, but in the heart", or is it safe to say "a true Adventist is not one who follows all of the rules, but who is doing the right thing in their heart"?
The questions that arise from such comfort involve the idea of preaching the gospel and the necessity of it. I know it was briefly mentioned in class by the professor, but the main question is, if everyone will be judged by what they are already doing in their lives why do we need to preach the gospel to them? I am looking forward to this discussion in class as I feel strongly that I must preach the gospel, and that the rest of the Scripture is plain in this commission, however this chapter raises a few questions.
Chester Clark III Response to comments by Alexander (9/9/2010)
I really appreciated your comments about the power of God. Sometimes we seem to be more expressive about the power of the enemy – of temptation, sin, and the world. But if we can only fix our eyes on the power of Jesus, and remember that greater is He that is in us than he that is in the world, we will indeed find that power more than sufficient for every day, no matter what it brings.
I also appreciated your connecting the appreciation of God’s power with the boldness of sharing. Often, when doing door-to-door work or even preaching in a friendly pulpit, I’ve realized that if we actually comprehended how incredibly good what we have is, we’d be a whole lot more bold and animated in sharing it!
Assignment # 2 Last week I've read the article by A.M. Rodriguez Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs. I can relate to his frustration about vague understanding and interpretation of the “in Adam/ in Christ” concept. It is quite difficult to avoid trans-physical, mystical component of interpretation if the Greek phrases "in Christ/ in Adam" are translated as Local Dative of Sphere, which indicates “the sphere or realm in which the word to which it is related take place or exists.”
It seems that tradition to translate "in Christ" as dative of sphere probably make the most sense in the context of catholic theology of salvation, which solely depends on the particular realm where salvation is made effective. There is no salvation outside of that sphere. So, practically the Pauline concept “in Christ” in catholic tradition may be interpreted as another way of saying “in church,” which is the body of Christ, the distributor of God’s grace. Rodriguez makes very definite statement: “The concreteness and individuality of a human being makes it impossible for him or her to exist or be present in any form or shape in another human being.” So, I wasn’t present in Adam when he sinned, neither I was in Christ on the cross. The article makes clear what “in Christ/in Adam” is not.
Some New Testament scholars believe that behind Paul’s concept “in Christ” lies the idea of the Divine covenant. Here “in Christ” indicates the new sphere of the covenant, which counterpoises the exclusiveness of the old realm “in Judaism.” This approach fits very well Paul’s polemic with Galatians. Does it mean than that “in Adam” in Romans refers to the divine-human covenantal relationships significantly affected by Adam’s sin? Does the concept “in Adam” signify a state of broken covenant or “outside-of-covenant” condition of humanity? Rodriguez offers an explanation of Pauline’s “in Christ”: “Because the believer is united with the living Lord through the indwelling of His Spirit, he or she is made a part of the saving events of Christ's death and resurrection and included in the body of Christ, the Church. As a result, the believer personally receives all the blessings of salvation that flow from Christ and exist in the fellowship of believers."
Can we say that the state of humanity described as “in Adam” signifies a condition, where humans do not have the unity with the living God, i.e. the indwelling of the Spirit (an old nature, sinful flash), where “in Christ” points to the new creation, human nature that is according to the Spirit? “If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His… For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.” (Rom 8:9,14) It seams like the concepts “in Adam/in Christ” combine the aspect of status (sonship, belonging to the church, people of the covenant), and the nature (old nature according to flash in Adam and new creature in Christ according to the Spirit).
@ Jason A. O'Rourke Thank you for sharing. I’ve never thought about our sonship this way: “As the image of God we were created to call God master because he is the creator of all life; because of Christ we are now saved to call God father, as legitimate children.” It makes a world of difference to know that we are relate to God not only by right of creation, but also by right of the adaptation into the divine family. We not only are His image, icon, reflection, but also are the partakers of His nature (2 Pet 1:4) and all been made to drink into one Spirit (1Cor 12:13). Wow!
Romans chapter 2 absolutely levels the playing field. Why? It is because God shows no partiality. He is not a respecter of persons! He is not swayed by a bribe. He is not deceived by kiss. He is not enticed with tears. He is not lured by legalistic obedience or the liberal lack thereof. He is not convinced because of intellectual capability. He is interested in hearing one thing and one thing only...the heart.
Paul makes this point so plain in this chapter that it cannot be missed. When I became a Christian ten years ago, this chapter thrilled my soul and after reading it for this class, I am actually more thrilled. I think (better yet I know) it’s because I see myself as a greater sinner than I was back then. But there is more. I also see Him in greater hues of love and mercy. Again, he is listening to my heartbeat. Does it beat in tune with His? I’m reminded of some precious words in Steps to Christ.
By what means, then, shall we determine whose side we are on? Who has the heart? With whom are our thoughts? Of whom do we love to converse? Who has our warmest affections and our best energies? If we are Christ’s, our thoughts are with Him, and our sweetest thoughts are of Him. SC 58
I believe this is Paul’s point. Who cares about your outward show? You may be a teacher. You may be a preacher. You may boast of the law, but you are actually missing the mark! God could care less about your outward accomplishments. God could care less about your physical circumcision. What matters most is your circumcision of the heart.
Now Paul does write in this chapter of the importance of being “doers” of the law. The NIV reads, “those who obey the law.” (2:13) In fact, he goes so far as to say that they are justified (in other words, pardoned/declared righteous) on that basis. This is amazing! How can that be when the Bible very clearly states we are saved by grace? I believe it is a case of obedience that does “earn” the right to be pardoned. But rather obedience as the “evidence” that one has been pardoned. But let it not be forgotten that what matters most with God is not the action itself, but the motive which prompts the action. To put it simply, it’s not what you do. It’s why do you do what you do. May we not reject the new heart we’ve been given.
Thanks for sharing your insight on predestination. In context of relationship this heavy scary concept become the inspiration of freedom, not the threat. Obviously “reconciliation takes choice and action by both sides of the relationship.” So, what Paul was trying to convey with predestination, John expressed in other way, saying: “We love Him because He first loved us.” Never thought of predestination this way. It's so cool! Thanks!
Alexander Rybachek Comment on Ryan Kilgore's First Assignment
I knew people so perfect for heaven that there was not earthly use of them. The perfection without sin is their conviction. All around are sinners thou. I do not know whether these people have ever healthy feed back, but it would be very interesting to listen about their perfection from their families. Ellen White is very ballanced in writing her position. I see that some may use her writing for thier unballanced ideas, but those who are genuinely looking for the truth will find it first in Scripture and second in her writings. She was not perfect in sense of sinlessness, but she was perfect as an instrument of God.
RESPONSE TO Ryan Kilgore said... Assignment 1 I had the same experience in my ministry in BRazil. I was in a nominating committee and one of my elders said he had not sinned for 3 days and he asked me what I thought about that. one of the other elders commented that if you were without a sin for 3 days why didn't you continue without sin?. I said to the elder who posted that strange comment: We are born sinners so we sin, not that we are born pure and then we sin. It took care of business for the moment but that was not the last time I heard such statement, I think there are still some perfectionists in our midst. People who come froward or not that believe that it is possible to live a sinless life in this world, which is , as you shared in the answer of that pastor , it is contrary to bible teaching. I know that sin is an accident in the life of the new born in Christ but it is still there. The only different in my opinion, is that now sin hurts us too not only Christ.
It couldn't be enough no matter how many times we say that we are sinners saved by His grace. I like Michael quoting 'If we are Christ's, our thoughts are with Him, and our sweetest thoughts are of Him'. How wonderful it is! In fact we can find our greatest joy in becoming more like Jesus. If Jesus' joy becomes mine and that's how we should be.
Angel Manuel Rodrigues’s article ‘Christ Saved the Human Race’ throws a question which I did not see before in regards of E. G. White sayings of saving the world. Jesus’ work of saving the world through paying what the law requires for fallen human race is important because it actually gives all human race an opportunity to accept to be on Jesus’ side. Any Christian who sees how Jesus draws sinners to him to save can follow the logic of salvation. It is simple. Jesus died for us and we have his redemptive work on the Cross. So, all we have to do is to choose to be on Jesus’ side. However, aside the mystery of salvation concerning how Jesus as divine being substituted himself for fallen human race, there is one big inner struggle which has been a real head scratcher. I’m still trying to somehow connect the concept of being born again to have eternal life to the concept of becoming righteous through Jesus’ righteous act. To be born again means to have eternal life and accept what Jesus has done for us on the Cross. Therefore if we want to have eternal life we must believe in Jesus’ righteous act. Wait a minute! We are all descendants of Adam and Eve who sinned in the first place and because of that we are considered sinners not because we chose to be sinners but because we are born to be sinners. Sometimes I think that it is only fair if Jesus’ righteous work saves all humanity no matter what just as we are born in this world without being asked. If we take this real seriously what does it mean when Jesus says that we must be born again to have eternal life? What doesn’t Jesus’ righteous work automatically save sinners as Adam’s sin did to all human race? Why do we need to exercise faith in order to be saved?
‘This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus’. Romans 3:22-24
But Paul uses this stream of thoughts everywhere in his letters. I certainly do not believe in universalism in terms of salvation for all through Jesus’ righteous act because other parts of the Bible do not support such theory. I understand that we need to exercise our faith in order to take Jesus’ righteous work as ours. For those who are not following what I try to say, here’s the simple sentence for you. When Adam fell into sin, all who are in Adam automatically are regarded sinners no matter what whereas when Jesus overcame sin those who accept Jesus as their savior can only be saved. There was no condition to be a sinner for descendants of Adam but there is condition to be saved in Jesus Christ. Is it fair? Is it just? Maybe I have to look at my struggle from another angle, which brings the concept of flesh and spirit in regards to salvation. John the apostle says in John 6:63, ‘The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing’. I have to admit that the process of falling into sin and the process of saving fallen sinners are different. Falling into sin was associated with human flesh which was about ‘the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does’. God had to use spiritual method to give back life to us. This is how it helps me to understand my initial question above.
Assignment 1 In reflecting on this first chapter in the book of Romans I cannot help but focus on the 16th and 17th verses. And when I do, I recall the words from a sermon I heard on the subject dealing with the power of the Gospel which proposed that God could have revealed his power against sin any way he wanted to, one such way could have been to wipe men from the face of the earth. However it was a blessing to notice that, even though the Lord could have exercised His power of wrath and judgment He instead chose to exercise His power in sending mankind the Gospel of grace through the death of His son. Which, to me, brings up very interesting point about God, that is, could God have saved man in a different way or was the death of His son His only option. At face value most Christians agree that God possesses the ability to choose while at the same time being omnipotent; and in class most of us agree that just because God has the ability to do anything does not mean he does everything, but that he operates within the framework of his character. Therefore, being able to do anything, God chooses to limit himself. But that still does not rule out the possibility that because God can do anything, whether it is within what his character would allow or not, he could have chosen to save us in an easier less sacrificial way than he did.
Whidden presented a quote in chapter three that intrigued me. Ellen White says that salvation “by” obedience to the law is impossible, but salvation “without” the law is impossible as well (p. 25). Simply put, by our obedience to the law is not enough to gain our salvation. Even if we could somehow by strict adherence keep the law it would still not merit us being saved, without the sacrifice of Christ on our behalf and our acceptance of it. However on the other hand the law is the perfect standard of truth and we will be judged by it. As Whidden portrayed in this chapter, Ellen herself had to correct a brother who that that obedience to the law was all that humanity needed. She had to inform him that when a man or woman has accepted Christ they are being converted from the transgression of God’s law to the accepting of it. The law is simply a measuring stick or better yet a mirror that simply shows us who we really are and how different we are from God, but it by no means cleanses or changes us more into His image. It is through Christ that we come to knowledge of repentance and sin in the first place and then as Christ imbues our hearts day by day we see His law as perfect a transcript of His character and we realize that that is what we should be sriving for as oppose to our own way of doing things. So in the end (as I believe Dr. Hanna alluded to) the law judges us, but it is Christ who saves us. Now Romans chapter 2 is interesting to me as well. Because in v. 25 Paul says circumsion is only profitable if you keep the law. And sometimes I can understand when people even mistake the Bible for strict legalism. For at some points to the person who simply glances at a text without context or proper exegesis it can seem that Obedience to the law cannot be substituted for anything else and is primary. But Paul goes on and speaks about keeping the law inwardly vs. outwardly. Outwardly in my mind must be the “fanaticism” that Ellen White faced before 1888. But inwardly, to me, seems to convey at the very least an understanding that God’s law, His character, His way is the true way. Although perfection is seemingly impossible for man now, it should not negate the effort to strive for it through Christ. Paul ends by saying: “No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God” (Romans 2:29).
Mike, I really appreciate your posting. And I too enjoyed reading Romans chapter two and am thankful that God values the heart above all but not at the exclusion of the head and the hands. When You mentioned that God is no respecter of persons it brought back a familiar thought in my mind. Is God really not a respecter of persons? Because sometimes when I think about it, it seems as though God deals with everyone differently. According to where they are, and what situation in life. And just to confuse matters I think 1 Corinthians 10:13 seems to cloud the issue even more. Because it seems to imply that God weighs each circumstance before He gives it to us to see if we can bear it. I think ill write about it in another posting. But again thanks for your insight.
Assignment 2 In reading Ellen White on salvation, one section that really caught my attention was the Methodist church teaching of “second blessing”. One of the indicators of being in this state is where the believer is not conscious of any wrong. Therefore, it is safe to assume that the person is living up to all the revealed light they have received. Later on in the chapter’s holiness perfectionist fanatics misconstrued holiness with self-righteous claims of perfection. But what does it mean as we reflect on our understanding of perfection? It is clear that Ellen White teaches progressive perfection, or as the believer grows in a deeper knowledge and understanding of the word of God structures his or her life in harmony with those teachings. However, is it possible to not be conscious of any wrong? To live a life, in the here and now, where there is no recollection of any sinful thought or action. Is it possible to achieve that state of perfection? It is understood that the closer you get to Christ, the more sinful you appear before Him in light of His holiness. What is the sin you seen in yourself? Is it the sinful nature you can do nothing about (Ps 51:5), or overt acts of sin that you choose to commit. It is my personal belief that it is possible, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, to choose not to commit any overt act of sin while still struggling with a natural predisposition to sin.
I appreciated your thinking on the topic of salvation and your question, if we are automatically sons of Adam, why aren't we automatically sons of Jesus. We never chose to be lost, yet we have to choose to be saved. I never thought about it that way before.
Here are my thoughts on the issue; maybe it's just the way it has to work. We can't be regenerated by God without our consent. We are in the opposite position of Adam and Eve, who could not be corrupted without their consent. Maybe it isn't about fairness at all, just reality. It is painful to think that we, of all the beings in the universe, were born to sin (however you imagine that process playing itself out). Yet if we choose to live in God, we are honored above all other creatures in the universe because we get to experience Grace. God has found away to bring us from sons and daughters of Adam to sons and daughters of God.
Assignment #2 The book of Romans uses very special terminology, - “Gospel” for the salvation. This new terminology was used in order to explain the original concept of salvation which has been given to ancient Israelites. Therefore Paul wants to give the correct understanding and concept of salvation found in Jesus which relates back to the first covenant that is rooted in God’s promise. The purpose of this research is to define the role, function, and their relationship between Gospel and Covenant. Thus one may understand that they are evitable facts for further understanding of Salvation.
SECOND WEEK REFLECTION ON ROMANS CHAPTER TWO Verse 1.Whenever we find ourselves justifiably angry about some one’s sin we should be careful. We need to speak out against sin but we must do so in a spirit of humility. We should not judge others. God is the only judge. Verse12-16-People are not condemned of what they don’t know, but for what they know .Those who know the Word of God and His law will be judged by them. Those who have never seen a Bible still know right from wrong and they will be judged because they did not keep even those standards which their own conscience dictated. God is the one who will judge all people according to His gospel. We should not judge others because we are all sinners. In criticizing others we will be passing a sentence up on ourselves for we show that we are the participants with the accuser of our brethren!
FIRST WEEK .DOCTRINE OF SALVATION-1 REFLECTIONS ON ROMANS 1. Paul says those who become Christians are invited by Jesus to be holy people and to become members of God’s family .In verse 16-Paul says, that he was not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ because it was the massage of salvation. It had a life changing power .Thus the gospel is the power of God into salvation. Salvation is not about what we should do in order to be saved but it is about what God did for our salvation. The gospel shows us both how the righteous God is in His plan for us to saved, and how we may be made fit for eternal life. By trusting Christ our relationship with God is made right. The truth of the gospel is the truth of scripture .The gospel which is the power to save us is the gospel of the Father, Son, and of the Holy Spirit to us; this gospel is Christ centered Rom.1:3, 4..His power to save us is manifested at His birth and at His resurrection from the dead. His power to save us is being manifested in the person of Jesus Christ. He became a man, and He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death and through His power He was able to resurrect from the dead. Thus now, the gospel which is preaching is our gospel also because we have been called by God to preach the gospel the same as he was been called to preach.
Every one is valuable before God because we were created in His likeness and in His image. Although we are valuable before God, we are all fallen into sin. Verses 9, 10-Therre is no even one who righteous before God; all have sinned and have come short of God’s glory. No even one is righteous, but God through Jesus His Son, has redeemed us and offers forgiveness for us if we return to Him with sincere repentance. Verse20,-31-These verses shows the functions of the laws. The law shows us where we are wrong, we know that we are helpless sinners and we must go to Christ for Mercy; the law serves as guide to our actions by holding up God’s moral standards. It is a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ, but it can not save us. We don’t earn salvation by keeping the law (no one can keep the law perfectly except Christ who kept it perfectly) but we do please God when our lives conform to His revealed will. The laws works as a mirror to shows our dirtness, and when we go to Jesus He washes and cleanses us. Thus we are justified freely by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Being justified by grace it doesn’t mean that we don’t keep the law, but we establish it; because if we love God and truly His love is in us we will automatically keep the law not because we want to be served but because Jesus Christ who is in controlling our lives has already served us. We will be covered by his righteousness, our lives will reflect his life, and because He Himself did not break his own law, we will also not break His law. We will be doers of the law and we will be obedient to him because obedience and faith goes together.
LEFLECTION ON READING REPORT : assignment one! BY ELIAS MISUNGWI ID 145158 NAME OF THE BOOK: UNDERSTANDING THE SCRIPTURE CHAPTER 1 HISTORICAL BACKGROUNDS OF ADVENTIST BIBLICAL INTERPRETATION: Why hermeneutics is important in biblical interpretation? The reason as to why we should study hermeneutics is because we want to get the real truth as it was intended to reach us, “to get real meanings of the passages/scriptures.” Throughout the ages in the ancient times the inspired word of God has been encountering many challenges from pagan cultures, cultural traditions ecclesiastical authority, and personal experiences. During the Jewish religion in the captivity of Babylon in 6TH century BC, the Israelites forgot the laws of God and the warnings of the prophets. They started defining Gods word according to their traditions, they placed extra biblical rules which overloaded and overshadowed some of the basic teachings of the scriptures. Matt 15:5-9. But geographical, culture and religious factors within Judaism helped to develop three major approaches of scriptures namely: Rabbinic Judaism –promoting obedience to mosaic laws and Hebrew Scriptures for protecting Jewish tradition against Greco-Roman culture; Hellenistic Judaism –adopted allegorical interpretations of the scriptures to accommodate its beliefs to the platonic expression of the Greece philosophy; The ascetic Qumran community, a community which interpreted the fulfillment of the Old Testaments. Thus Christianity was born within the context of the Rabbinic, and Hellenistic Judaism before facing greater challenges of paganism, that characterized most of Roman Empire. During the medieval church Christ and his followers broke the limits of the current Judaism by emphasizing the authority of the scriptures over all sources or religious knowledge, matt 5:18.christ opposed the rabbinical traditions and external rituals, as traditions and cultural accommodations of the word of God which would nullify its sanctifying power matt 15:6; 23:1-38; John17:6-23, even the Hellenistic Jews did their own beliefs. In fact , during the period of Jesus even the time later , people have been interpreting the scriptures the way how their feel so as to fit their culture, traditions and their pre understanding ,hence the scriptures has lost its real meaning and it has now become the source of confusion to people by misunderstanding God. Different people throughout the ages have been trying to retain the worthiness of the scriptures by learning the fundamentals of interpreting the word of God,”that’s biblical hermeneutics. The proper principle of interpreting scriptures is called SOLA SRIPTURA, TOTA SCRIPTURA, and PRIMA SCRIPTURA, meaning scripture alone all scripture, and scripture first. We as Seventh-day Adventist church accept the Bible as our only Creed and we hold the fundamental beliefs to our teachings of the scripture. These fundamental beliefs express our Biblical hermeneutics on what we believe. Those beliefs are Christ centered .I believe on the sola tota, prima as the church believes too
Brian Baierl Assignment #2 I read through Romans chapter 2. I came across the verse we had a discussion in class on the Gospel judgment. I was confused on the way it was used in class. In the version I was using, New American Standard Bible, the concept of Gospel Judgment really did not make sense. The NASB version puts the text , "according to my gospel" in a set of commas. So as I read it there it seemed odd to say the Gospel judges. When I read Romans 2 this time I read it from a New Testament translated from Aramaic. This version states the text as "In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men according to my gospel by Jesus Christ." In this version it make it clear. There is a possible judgment by the Gospel if read in this version. I feel as though it is not a bad idea or wrong to see the gospel in judgment. I do sense the rest of the chapter is on the law as a judgment. I believe that the law judges and in the view of judgment the gospel slides in to view. I deal with analogies so here is one of them. It is like a camera that has interchangeable lenses. There is a view you see in the view finder of the object. The lens at the end has an adaptation for what is called a filter. The filter changes the view of the object or scenery. There are such filters that take out the haze of the clouds. The law sees us as condemned, but when we accept the Gospel with Jesus as our Savior the law sees Jesus. Paul in Romans chapter 2 is conveying that it is from God in the end where the true salvation comes from and where praise is to be given.
Reflections on Romans 2 As I read this chapter several points caught my attention. First, God’s judgment is Righteous; Second, God’s judgment is impartial; and Third, God’s judgment is concerned with the heart. The first one is extremely important because and is the basis for Paul’s entire argument because it demonstrates that God is a Righteous Judge. This point struck me personally because it contrasted the righteous judgment of God against the unrighteous judgment of man. Whereas man condemns his fellow man for his wrong doing God extends his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, which leads to repentance so they might be saved. I found this to be extremely profound and deeply personal. It demonstrates the difference between the creature and the Creator. The creature simply turns to the other creature and attempts to evaluate him and judge him based on his own fallible standard of righteousness. But God the Creator of all creatures looks to his creatures with love and compassion and seeks to reconcile them to Himself. There have been times when I’ve been really amazed by the way someone treats another human being when they themselves have done the very same thing in the past. Particularly in the church you find this problem occurring way too often. A member of the church who has been in the church for a longtime brings accuses a new member of the church of behaving in appropriately. The same member who is accusing the new member was previously involved in equally inappropriate behavior at an earlier time period in their Christian experience. Yet they easily overlook their own faults and even their past from before becoming a Christian and immediately bring accusation against another member. Maybe you’ve never seen this before, but it seems like the main headline in every church I visit, criticisms and accusations rather than encouragement and compliments. It’s good to know then that God is an impartial judge who will judge all according to the truth of His word. It’s good to know that while man looks on the outward appearance God still looks in at the heart. And it’s good to know that “In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ,” He does it according to the Good News of the Gospel (Rom. 2:16).
Kevin Solomon Doctrine of Salvation Assignment II The article on the “Analysis of the Doctrine of Legal Justification” is a response to 1888 Study Committee which postulates that God accomplished legal unconditional justification for all men. Though they do not claim universal salvation, the MSC argue that belief demonstrates God loving initiative to save all men and that such an apprehension of God’s loving act produces devotion and saving faith in man. This article really got my attention. The concept of universal objective salvation is something I seriously wrestled with while studying for my undergrad. During this time I was sought to grasp the conception of salvation. After a time, I reach a sort of epiphany and came to realize that through Christ God actually accomplished salvation for everyone at the cross. Though I did not believe that men were universally saved, I subscribed to aspects of the teaching of the 1888 Study Committee. The reading has made some legitimate points but has also caused questions to resurface about this important topic. I leave the reading with a more sincere desire to seek to discover for myself again what the bible has to say on the topic of Legal Universal Justification. Secondly, my reflection of Romans chapter two led me to see my need for the righteousness of Christ. Though may say I don’t resemble the pagans who have rejected the truth about God in nature and as a result have been given over to my own sinful desires, and now worship the creation rather than the creator. If Paul did not get me here, when I read chapter 2 I saw how depraved my really condition is before God. For even though I may have the law of God, and I know his will regarding the doctrines and the teachings of the church, and I have been taught the present truths for this time , I fear that my condition now may fair no better than the conditions of the Jews in Paul’s time. Though I may have the truth and live up to the commandments outwardly, there is the danger of been uncircumcised inwardly, though I have the letter, I may neglect the spirit. Thus though I may posses certain things that mark my Adventism I can miss the essentials that make be Christian. As Paul made clear, the demand of being a true Christian Adventist can be so much more than I have made it, or have been taught it should me. As Paul wrote, “For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that with is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart by the Spirit, not the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. And though there is much advantage in been a Jew as Paul charged, Jews and Gentiles alike are under sin. How great of a need do I have Oh Lord, for thee.
Kevin Solomon Doctrine of Salvation Assignment II The article on the “Analysis of the Doctrine of Legal Justification” is a response to 1888 Study Committee which postulates that God accomplished legal unconditional justification for all men. Though they do not claim universal salvation, the MSC argue that belief demonstrates God loving initiative to save all men and that such an apprehension of God’s loving act produces devotion and saving faith in man. This article really got my attention. The concept of universal objective salvation is something I seriously wrestled with while studying for my undergrad. During this time I was sought to grasp the conception of salvation. After a time, I reach a sort of epiphany and came to realize that through Christ God actually accomplished salvation for everyone at the cross. Though I did not believe that men were universally saved, I subscribed to aspects of the teaching of the 1888 Study Committee. The reading has made some legitimate points but has also caused questions to resurface about this important topic. I leave the reading with a more sincere desire to seek to discover for myself again what the bible has to say on the topic of Legal Universal Justification. Secondly, my reflection of Romans chapter two led me to see my need for the righteousness of Christ. Though may say I don’t resemble the pagans who have rejected the truth about God in nature and as a result have been given over to my own sinful desires, and now worship the creation rather than the creator. If Paul did not get me here, when I read chapter 2 I saw how depraved my really condition is before God. For even though I may have the law of God, and I know his will regarding the doctrines and the teachings of the church, and I have been taught the present truths for this time , I fear that my condition now may fair no better than the conditions of the Jews in Paul’s time. As Paul made clear, the demand of being a true Christian Adventist can be so much more than I have made it, or have been taught it should me. As Paul wrote, “For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that with is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart by the Spirit, not the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. And though there is much advantage in been a Jew as Paul charged, Jews and Gentiles alike are under sin. How great of a need do I have Oh Lord, for thee.
Kevin Solomon Doctrine of Salvation Assignment II The article on the “Analysis of the Doctrine of Legal Justification” is a response to 1888 Study Committee which postulates that God accomplished legal unconditional justification for all men. Though they do not claim universal salvation, the MSC argue that belief demonstrates God loving initiative to save all men and that such an apprehension of God’s loving act produces devotion and saving faith in man. This article really got my attention. The concept of universal objective salvation is something I seriously wrestled with while studying for my undergrad. During this time I was sought to grasp the conception of salvation. After a time, I reach a sort of epiphany and came to realize that through Christ God actually accomplished salvation for everyone at the cross. Though I did not believe that men were universally saved, I subscribed to aspects of the teaching of the 1888 Study Committee. The reading has made some legitimate points but has also caused questions to resurface about this important topic. I leave the reading with a more sincere desire to seek to discover for myself again what the bible has to say on the topic of Legal Universal Justification. Secondly, my reflection of Romans chapter two led me to see my need for the righteousness of Christ. If Paul did not get me here, when I read chapter 2 I saw how depraved my really condition is before God. For even though I may have the law of God, and I know his will regarding the doctrines and the teachings of the church, and I have been taught the present truths for this time , I fear that my condition now may fair no better than the conditions of the Jews in Paul’s time. As Paul made clear, the demand of being a true Christian Adventist can be so much more than I have made it, or have been taught it should me. As Paul wrote, “For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that with is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart by the Spirit, not the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. And though there is much advantage in been a Jew as Paul charged, Jews and Gentiles alike are under sin. How great of a need do I have Oh Lord, for thee.
Alexander Rybachek Doctrine of Salvation Assignment II We always tend to think of ourselves better than of others. The ideas that we are closer to salvation than some other people is like a self-confidence that keeps our eyes from the reality. In chapter two of the Epistle of Romans we see Paul taking any grounds for self-confidence away. Paul in previous chapter has described all the immoralities that were characteristic to the Gentiles in Pauline time. Paul condemned the sinful practices of the Gentiles and made kind of the ground for the boasting for Jews. But the very next chapter destroys any ground for Jews as well. If we condemn such practices yet do them anyway. There is no escape. We are all sinners. We all are deprived from the holy and sinless nature of God. We are in the big hole or ditch. There is no salvation for us unless we keep the law. Those who keep the law are fine, yet in both chapters we see there is no way to keep the law by ourselves. Everybody is sinful, nobody is able to keep the law, and there is a great need in some kind of righteousness that is different in origin than human one. There is need in a person who would be able to save those lost. Paul is a genius writer. In order to describe a real need of humanity he simply described in first two chapters of Romans the necessity of righteousness and salvation that are of Divine origin. He put under the judgment of God both groups: Jews and Gentiles. And then he presented Jesus Christ as the only way to salvation. There is a physical state – vacuum. Vacuum is the absence of low density of air. Vacuum is usually created artificially, yet there are some natural situations that may create it. When vacuum gets in contact with normal air it absorbs it with tremendous power and strength. That is where the name of vacuum cleaner comes from. It absorbs the normal with tremendous power and strength. First two chapters of Romans are in my view serving as vacuum. They create a certain feeling for or desire for salvation and at the same time the more we desire salvation and righteousness the less we are able to get it by ourselves. Thus we have the vacuum in our souls – great desire for salvation and no ability in ourselves to obtain it. Thus the next coming statements should absorb the solution Paul presents before us. And of cause the solution will be Jesus. Paul creates a vacuum – empty space in our heart – for Jesus. There should be no sin, no boasting in self-righteousness and self-confidence. Before we receive Jesus in the complete sense of the word we need vacuum – not just empty space, but space that has a tremendous power to absorb the person of Jesus and salvation He offers. In the life of Ellen White I see this kind of vacuum when she was convinced in her sinfulness and needed Jesus. She was lacking the assurance of salvation strongly, yet her greatest need was filled when she found that the only person who is able to help her was Jesus. We see the evolution of her understanding on the matter of salvation. The very first step was exactly like in chapters 1 and 2 of Romans. She was convinced she is sinner, she had no self-confidence, and then she accepted Jesus as the only way to salvation.
Alexander Rybachek Doctrine of Salvation Assignment II We always tend to think of ourselves better than of others. The ideas that we are closer to salvation than some other people is like a self-confidence that keeps our eyes from the reality. In chapter two of the Epistle of Romans we see Paul taking any grounds for self-confidence away. Paul in previous chapter has described all the immoralities that were characteristic to the Gentiles in Pauline time. Paul condemned the sinful practices of the Gentiles and made kind of the ground for the boasting for Jews. But the very next chapter destroys any ground for Jews as well. If we condemn such practices yet do them anyway. There is no escape. We are all sinners. We all are deprived from the holy and sinless nature of God. We are in the big hole or ditch. There is no salvation for us unless we keep the law. Those who keep the law are fine, yet in both chapters we see there is no way to keep the law by ourselves. Everybody is sinful, nobody is able to keep the law, and there is a great need in some kind of righteousness that is different in origin than human one. There is need in a person who would be able to save those lost. Paul is a genius writer. In order to describe a real need of humanity he simply described in first two chapters of Romans the necessity of righteousness and salvation that are of Divine origin. He put under the judgment of God both groups: Jews and Gentiles. And then he presented Jesus Christ as the only way to salvation. There is a physical state – vacuum. Vacuum is the absence of low density of air. Vacuum is usually created artificially, yet there are some natural situations that may create it. When vacuum gets in contact with normal air it absorbs it with tremendous power and strength. That is where the name of vacuum cleaner comes from. It absorbs the normal with tremendous power and strength. First two chapters of Romans are in my view serving as vacuum. They create a certain feeling for or desire for salvation and at the same time the more we desire salvation and righteousness the less we are able to get it by ourselves. Thus we have the vacuum in our souls – great desire for salvation and no ability in ourselves to obtain it. Thus the next coming statements should absorb the solution Paul presents before us. And of cause the solution will be Jesus. Paul creates a vacuum – empty space in our heart – for Jesus. There should be no sin, no boasting in self-righteousness and self-confidence. Before we receive Jesus in the complete sense of the word we need vacuum – not just empty space, but space that has a tremendous power to absorb the person of Jesus and salvation He offers. In the life of Ellen White I see this kind of vacuum when she was convinced in her sinfulness and needed Jesus. She was lacking the assurance of salvation strongly, yet her greatest need was filled when she found that the only person who is able to help her was Jesus. We see the evolution of her understanding on the matter of salvation. The very first step was exactly like in chapters 1 and 2 of Romans. She was convinced she is sinner, she had no self-confidence, and then she accepted Jesus as the only way to salvation.
Alexander Rybachek Doctrine of Salvation Assignment II We always tend to think of ourselves better than of others. The ideas that we are closer to salvation than some other people is like a self-confidence that keeps our eyes from the reality. In chapter two of the Epistle of Romans we see Paul taking any grounds for self-confidence away. Paul in previous chapter has described all the immoralities that were characteristic to the Gentiles in Pauline time. Paul condemned the sinful practices of the Gentiles and made kind of the ground for the boasting for Jews. But the very next chapter destroys any ground for Jews as well. If we condemn such practices yet do them anyway. There is no escape. We are all sinners. We all are deprived from the holy and sinless nature of God. We are in the big hole or ditch. There is no salvation for us unless we keep the law. Those who keep the law are fine, yet in both chapters we see there is no way to keep the law by ourselves. Everybody is sinful, nobody is able to keep the law, and there is a great need in some kind of righteousness that is different in origin than human one. There is need in a person who would be able to save those lost. Paul is a genius writer. In order to describe a real need of humanity he simply described in first two chapters of Romans the necessity of righteousness and salvation that are of Divine origin. He put under the judgment of God both groups: Jews and Gentiles. And then he presented Jesus Christ as the only way to salvation. There is a physical state – vacuum. Vacuum is the absence of low density of air. Vacuum is usually created artificially, yet there are some natural situations that may create it. When vacuum gets in contact with normal air it absorbs it with tremendous power and strength. That is where the name of vacuum cleaner comes from. It absorbs the normal with tremendous power and strength. First two chapters of Romans are in my view serving as vacuum. They create a certain feeling for or desire for salvation and at the same time the more we desire salvation and righteousness the less we are able to get it by ourselves. Thus we have the vacuum in our souls – great desire for salvation and no ability in ourselves to obtain it. Thus the next coming statements should absorb the solution Paul presents before us. And of cause the solution will be Jesus. Paul creates a vacuum – empty space in our heart – for Jesus. There should be no sin, no boasting in self-righteousness and self-confidence. Before we receive Jesus in the complete sense of the word we need vacuum – not just empty space, but space that has a tremendous power to absorb the person of Jesus and salvation He offers. In the life of Ellen White I see this kind of vacuum when she was convinced in her sinfulness and needed Jesus. She was lacking the assurance of salvation strongly, yet her greatest need was filled when she found that the only person who is able to help her was Jesus. We see the evolution of her understanding on the matter of salvation. The very first step was exactly like in chapters 1 and 2 of Romans. She was convinced she is sinner, she had no self-confidence, and then she accepted Jesus as the only way to salvation.
Alexander Rybachek Doctrine of Salvation Assignment II We always tend to think of ourselves better than of others. The ideas that we are closer to salvation than some other people is like a self-confidence that keeps our eyes from the reality. In chapter two of the Epistle of Romans we see Paul taking any grounds for self-confidence away. Paul in previous chapter has described all the immoralities that were characteristic to the Gentiles in Pauline time. Paul condemned the sinful practices of the Gentiles and made kind of the ground for the boasting for Jews. But the very next chapter destroys any ground for Jews as well. If we condemn such practices yet do them anyway. There is no escape. We are all sinners. We all are deprived from the holy and sinless nature of God. We are in the big hole or ditch. There is no salvation for us unless we keep the law. Those who keep the law are fine, yet in both chapters we see there is no way to keep the law by ourselves. Everybody is sinful, nobody is able to keep the law, and there is a great need in some kind of righteousness that is different in origin than human one. There is need in a person who would be able to save those lost. Paul is a genius writer. In order to describe a real need of humanity he simply described in first two chapters of Romans the necessity of righteousness and salvation that are of Divine origin. He put under the judgment of God both groups: Jews and Gentiles. And then he presented Jesus Christ as the only way to salvation. There is a physical state – vacuum. Vacuum is the absence of low density of air. Vacuum is usually created artificially, yet there are some natural situations that may create it. When vacuum gets in contact with normal air it absorbs it with tremendous power and strength. That is where the name of vacuum cleaner comes from. It absorbs the normal with tremendous power and strength. First two chapters of Romans are in my view serving as vacuum. They create a certain feeling for or desire for salvation and at the same time the more we desire salvation and righteousness the less we are able to get it by ourselves. Thus we have the vacuum in our souls – great desire for salvation and no ability in ourselves to obtain it. Thus the next coming statements should absorb the solution Paul presents before us. And of cause the solution will be Jesus. Paul creates a vacuum – empty space in our heart – for Jesus. There should be no sin, no boasting in self-righteousness and self-confidence. Before we receive Jesus in the complete sense of the word we need vacuum – not just empty space, but space that has a tremendous power to absorb the person of Jesus and salvation He offers.
Alexander Rybachek Doctrine of Salvation Assignment II We always tend to think of ourselves better than of others. The ideas that we are closer to salvation than some other people is like a self-confidence that keeps our eyes from the reality. In chapter two of the Epistle of Romans we see Paul taking any grounds for self-confidence away. Paul in previous chapter has described all the immoralities that were characteristic to the Gentiles in Pauline time. Paul condemned the sinful practices of the Gentiles and made kind of the ground for the boasting for Jews. But the very next chapter destroys any ground for Jews as well. If we condemn such practices yet do them anyway. There is no escape. We are all sinners. We all are deprived from the holy and sinless nature of God. We are in the big hole or ditch. There is no salvation for us unless we keep the law. Those who keep the law are fine, yet in both chapters we see there is no way to keep the law by ourselves. Everybody is sinful, nobody is able to keep the law, and there is a great need in some kind of righteousness that is different in origin than human one. There is need in a person who would be able to save those lost. Paul is a genius writer. In order to describe a real need of humanity he simply described in first two chapters of Romans the necessity of righteousness and salvation that are of Divine origin. He put under the judgment of God both groups: Jews and Gentiles. And then he presented Jesus Christ as the only way to salvation. There is a physical state – vacuum. Vacuum is the absence of low density of air. Vacuum is usually created artificially, yet there are some natural situations that may create it. When vacuum gets in contact with normal air it absorbs it with tremendous power and strength. That is where the name of vacuum cleaner comes from. It absorbs the normal with tremendous power and strength. First two chapters of Romans are in my view serving as vacuum. They create a certain feeling for or desire for salvation and at the same time the more we desire salvation and righteousness the less we are able to get it by ourselves. Thus we have the vacuum in our souls – great desire for salvation and no ability in ourselves to obtain it. Thus the next coming statements should absorb the solution Paul presents before us. And of cause the solution will be Jesus. Paul creates a vacuum – empty space in our heart – for Jesus. There should be no sin, no boasting in self-righteousness and self-confidence. Before we receive Jesus in the complete sense of the word we need vacuum – not just empty space, but space that has a tremendous power to absorb the person of Jesus and salvation He offers.
Chester Clark III Response to comments by Kevin Solomon (9/15/2010)
Thank you for your thoughtful reflection on the paper regarding unconditional legal justification. What I especially appreciated about your comments was that it was based on a personal spiritual journey – not just a theoretical abstract concept you’re thinking about for a class assignment. I always find that I learn better when it’s something that I personally have grappled with – maybe because I seek more of the Spirit’s aid, rather than subconsciously reverting to treating it as a cerebral process only?
I’ve struggled with these matters as well. In this comment I can’t go into great detail, but one thing that I would suggest that may be helpful: investigate the 2 Corinthians 5:17-19 concept of “reconciliation” and see if the concept of God being reconciled to the world (universally) might lead to better terminology, whereas “justification” seems to be a term better left to describe that which takes place in cooperation with the human will (as per the sanctuary service).
I was truly blessed as I read your comment. It brought even greater clarity to the discussion that we shared the other day. I really appreciate your honesty and transparency. I was really encouraged by your personal testimony and how God continues to convict you through His Spirit. I also appreciated your comments about "Universal Salvation." I've also struggled with the meaning of such concepts and have attempted to come to terms with what that means for my own personal salvation experience. Particularly this past summer I really experienced a dark night of the soul. Much of my experience centered around the topic of Salvaton. Although I've not resolved all of my questions I have experienced the peaceful assurance of God.
Romans chapter 3 is so good. I love the way that Paul is dealing with the issues and how he is presenting them. I love how in verse 7 he says, “someone might argue, ‘If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” He, as he points out himself, is using human arguments for this idea of rationalizing indulgence of sin. He then goes on to say that “now a righteousness from God, apart from law has been made known to which the Law and the Prophets testify.” Paul is presenting a balanced and holistic approach to the issue of righteousness. He is also pointing out that all Scriptures are testifying to what he is talking about. Paul is presenting a righteousness that comes by faith and saying that it is nothing new because it exactly what the Old Testament was pointing to also. It’s awesome how Paul makes it clear that he is not presenting anything new, he is just presenting the gospel and he definitely believes that it is good news. I love how relevant Paul’s message is even to us today. That is why I appreciate the way he uses “human arguments” while presenting this balance between obedience and faith. It’s so easy sometimes to try and rationalize what we do so that we do not feel guilty for doing it and to rationalize so that we don’t have to stop what we are doing because we just don’t want to stop. And the gospel Paul is preaching is a gospel that gives us freedom. We often rationalize because we feel we will be loosing freedom in giving up that which we are trying to prove is o.k. But in reality the gospel gives a real freedom and within the freedom we find in Christ Paul simply points out that we will use that freedom to follow Christ because of our relationship with Him. Righteousness through faith is a beautiful message and I believe Paul approaches the subject in a well rounded manner giving equal attention to both sides of the issue: obedience and faith. The other reading for the week was good as well. I like how the online dealt with the idea of how Christ has “saved the world”. It pointed out that Christ provided the way for salvation for us and we still have to accept it for it to be ours. Just like a gift, I have to be able to receive it in order for me to enjoy the benefits of that gift. Until I receive and accept it the gift will do nothing for me. Which is interesting because, to me anyway, accepting a gift can sometimes be harder than giving one. But it’s amazing that God offers us this beautiful gift without making us feel guilty at all for taking it. He does it out of love and because of His love all we can do is respond with thankfulness and go out and tell others where to find this wonderful gift that we have found. Like I have heard it said before, “Christianity is just one beggar showing another beggar where to find bread.” God has provided salvation to all the world, we just need to accept it by turning to Him, but one cannot accept this gift without being told about Christ and shown that He has this gift for everyone. We have to share it, it should be that we can’t help but share it.
I liked what you had to share concerning your reading of Whidden. I found the dream Ellen White had about her husband interesting too, I actually had never heard that before. I like your ideas on it, how it was a way of coping and probably played a significant role in her emphasis on Christ's love for us. Great thoughts.
Response to Nick Clark Assignment #2 I like the thoughts of God in Romans 2 you presented. It is true we look squarely at the forgiveness but lose sight of the kindness of God. We lose sight of God and focus on the outcomes. The comments on the online article were very similar to a small section of a video I found of Dr. Hanna talking on Google. The law is very important. Dr. Hanna was describing the law as a witness. Paul was never about cheap grace. It is true Paul had a great way of balance and bringing it back to God. And like you I pray God may direct me like He did Paul and that I too want to learn and understand it better.
Dario Ferreira Doctrine of Salvation Assignment #3
The third chapter of Romans begins with a question: What then is the advantage of the Jew? Paul was expected to respond negatively to this question, considering that he placed the Jews of guilt in the same situation that the gentiles, to say that they are inexcusable, in Chapter 2. But he surprises us by saying that the Jew has many advantages in many respects.
Interestingly, Paul repeats the same basic question in verse 1, verse 9: "Do We Have (Jews) any advantage (on the Gentiles)?" And now he responds with an emphatic "no, not at all"(pa,ntwj). I believe the first answer (3:2): "Much in every way," refers to the hereditary privileges of the Jews as a chosen nation. Paul himself after giving his response exemplifies why the same verse, saying in other words, the Jews have many advantages over the gentiles, especially the privilege of being the guardians of the oracles of God. Being Jewish was, in this respect an honor.
On the other hand, the second response: "No, not at all" refers to their situation before God. Regardless of privileges, both Jews and Gentiles were under sin, that is, all need the saving grace of God - both Jewish and Gentiles had sinned and needed the glory of God (v.23).
In the rest of Romans 3, Paul makes it clear that it is by faith, not by what he does, that man is justified - given the grace of God.
Paul used the language of a court of law, the slave market and the temple, to show that forgiveness (Justification), deliverance (Redemption) and atonement (Propitiation) are placed on the access of human beings by the spontaneous initiative of God and that can be achieved by faith in the atoning sacrifice of Christ.
The third document on Salvation, written by Angel Manuel Rodriguez, entitled "Christ Saved the Human Race," explains what Ellen White had in mind When She states That Christ saved the world. She did not Believe That Jesus at the cross legally saved the whole human race, but that Christ paid the price for our redemption, making it Possible to Have Access to God and to Be accepted by him. I liked the way too clear that Angel Rodriguez explains this issue and also because it still adds to our understanding by bringing extra statements that clarifies in detail the vision of Ellen White concerning the important topic of salvation.
Is interesting to note, through the personal testimonies of Ellen White and James White, the recognition of the need of the grace of Christ for a sanctified life. Ellen White recognized that it was not perfect and it was not free of errors and mistakes in his life. She always emphasized the great power transformer of God, supporting each believer in his experience of sanctification and perfection.
I enjoyed how you reacted to the reading of Romans 3. One can clearly see his joy in seeing the commitment of Paul to answer the arguments of human making "Presenting this balance between obedience and faith." I share this joy too.
I found it interesting how you put the salvation provided by Christ as a gift that can only receive as we can enjoy its benefits. Really, only when we recognize our need of Christ, is that we open our hearts and get this free gift of God. Only then we started to enjoy the salvation and its benefits.
Michael, I appreciated your fervor in regards to Ellen White and her passion for Christ and what He stood for. There is a message there that needs to be captured. Like you, I believe an accurate understanding of justification by faith is necessary. It is vitally beautiful We also need to go beyond that and embracing that truth for by beholding we are changed.
Comment on John Coaxum's Assignment II I enjoyed your post. There is defenitely fanaticism involved in views on perfection and legalism. Obedience to law is not possible by our own efforts, yet it is needed. The same chapter explains that those who keep it – they have it written on their hearts. It is implied in the text that God is able to write it in our hearts. As I was reading your assignment I realized that Paul uses here language for Gentiles that was exclusively used for Israel. That is the law is being written on their hearts. Usually from prophets we see these words being applied only to God's faithful people. For Jews in the times of Paul these people were only people of their nation and proselytes. Here we see Paul naming Gentiles as keepers of the law and being praised by God for that. Truly these days many Adventists would be surprised hearing that many non-Seventh Day Adventists are currently keepers of the law when many SDA members are the law breakers. Tremendous – when we are looking for keeping the law, we are mistakenly doing it in a wrong place. The law is kept automatically when you are in right relationships with the Law Giver. But law in itself, as you posed, has no power to make us any better, even it is holy and good. Thanks for the post.
I think you did a good job of summarizing Paul’s message in Romans 3. The response to Paul’s second question about what advantage there was in being a Jew is, “No, not at all,” referring to their situation before God. Something you pointed out that I had not noticed while reading the chapter was that Paul repeats the same basic question in verse 9 that he asked in verse 1. After looking back at the text, I found Paul’s wording in v. 1 to be interesting. He says, Τί οὖν τὸ περισσὸν τοῦ Ἰουδαίου. We could translate this roughly, “What is remarkable about being a Jew?” In other words, What is God’s purpose in even having a special people? The answer he is trying to bring out is that even though God has a purpose for his people, that purpose is not to save them before all others. When it comes to salvation, all are equal.
As I read Romans 3 alongside Whidden’s chapter on James and Ellen White’s “conversion” stories, I was surprised to find some parallels of experience.
In Romans 3, Paul continues to address the Judaizers in Rome who were claiming some kind of spiritual superiority over their Gentile brothers and sisters. Paul shows that there is indeed an advantage in being a Jew because the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God. (Interestingly, he applies this same advantage to circumcision). But just because you have the words of God doesn’t mean that God is more able to save you. Paul points out that “some did not have faith” (v. 3). This lack of faith on the part of God’s people, however, doesn’t discredit God, as one might think, given that he must have given them his word for a reason. Rather, says Paul, it only shows that God is just, because he judges such lack of faith, thus showing that he is indeed righteous. Thus, does God want us to sin so that he is shown to be righteous when he condemns our behavior? Of course not.
So the question remains, are we who have the law any better? According to Paul, the answer is no. The law does not put us in a better standing with God! Paul then quotes a plethora of Old Testament passages showing that every single person has sinned. These verses are the very ones given to the Jews, those under the law. Ironically, the law which these Jews point to as evidence of their superiority points back at them and condemns them!
Though in the estimation of humanity, some are declared righteous by their faithful observance of the law, in the estimation of God, none are righteous. This begs the question: Whose esteem am I seeking? Do I want to look good to myself and other religious people? The way to do it is to follow the law. But do I want to look good to God? If so, the law can be of no assistance to me. Not that the law is not valuable, but it has no ability to endear me to God or somehow appoint me more righteousness. Rather, as Paul says, it is “through the law [that] we become conscious of sin” (v. 20).
Now, Paul says, “a righteousness from God has been revealed” (πεφανέρωται). This righteousness is not new, but now it is made more visible. This righteousness comes through faith in Jesus Christ, which means that it is available to everyone who has sinned, both Jews and Gentiles! Thus, Paul has brought us from relative darkness regarding the righteousness of God to clarity. Righteousness does not come from the observation of the law. It comes through faith in Jesus Christ. This seems to me to be the same faith journey that the Whites experienced prior to 1888 (according to Whidden). They (especially James) moved from an overarching emphasis on the law to a recognition that what was truly needed was that God’s people see clearly the magnificent beauty of Christ, so that they could put their faith in him and receive his righteousness.
In chapter 3 of Romans, Paul makes some rather bold statements about the human family. “There is none righteous, no not one.” “All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” How did Paul arrive at this conclusion? Paul’s mind grasped Biblical truth as never before when had his conversion experience with Christ on the road to Damascus. The Acts of the Apostle records these insightful words."In that hour of heavenly illumination Saul’s mind acted with remarkable rapidity. The prophetic records of Holy Writ were opened to his understanding" (p.115).
Any way you look at it, sin has infected and affected us all! Isaiah said it as well. “All we like sheep have gone our own way, we have turned every one to his own way.” Though Paul’s clearly announces the human sin problem, even quoting several different OT passages, he doesn’t stop there. He also gives the remedy in marvelous musical tones. Verse 22 begins the victory song by proclaiming that righteousness by faith is given to all. The music then declares that grace is freely given to all through Christ in verse and concludes in verse 25 with the shout that His righteousness passes over sins previously committed! Grace, grace marvelous grace!
Despite the extent of sin, it is this condition that grants us possession of eternal riches in Christ. It becomes clear in this chapter that sin is not the war we fight since it resides in the very fibers of our being. It is our very nature. It is not something we can “get rid of.” The fight is truly a fight of faith, believing that the righteousness of Christ will actually pass over our sins. After all, it sounds too good to be true. And in reality, it is, but He is the "good" Shepherd who brings "good" news.
Assignment #4 Again, a concise chapter from Whidden, brief but packed full. It seems that his research on this project was extensive enough to get the main points effectively. The balance between law and grace was a helpful insight into Ellen White’s views of salvation. Though I could have said that she had these two in balance, I hadn’t thought to connect it with salvation, which seems to give a great help to understanding those sometimes contradictory statements of hers when she talks about grace and how we are saved by Jesus’ sacrifice and grace alone, yet then talks about works and the importance of moving towards perfect obedience. These go together, and I think that understanding the grace in the Old Testament is an especially important thing for Adventists in a time when people are legalistically promoting the festivals and other Old Testament ceremonial regulations. Her thoughts on last events was challenging to me, and I have been and am still trying to come to terms with the traditional Adventist idea of our righteous living being tied to the Second Coming. This seems strange to me because it seems that it is God who will choose according to His purposes when He will return, and that we will not be able to manipulate the time of His coming and it seems that proclaiming that He hasn’t come yet because of our wrongdoing is a recipe for guilt because those who will take this to heart are probably going to be the ones who, like the young Ellen Harmon, were already trying to follow God to the best of their ability which they felt wasn’t good enough. I don’t really see that argument as something that will convince backsliders to come back to holiness. But I don’t know. The thing that makes me thing about this is that in Judaism there is a similar idea about the first coming of the Messiah, and Jews will say that the Messiah hasn’t come yet because Jews haven’t kept God’s law righteously enough. This idea is expressed when a young religious Jew tells a young ethnic Jew that the Messiah hasn’t come because people like her break the Sabbath when she was building a sand castle on Saturday in Chaim Potok’s Davita’s Harp. Though I do thing we need to live righteously, it just seems like a legalistic method to tell people that there is still suffering in the world because they aren’t being righteous enough. If we could tell people to be righteous with as much love as Jesus did the woman caught in adultery then it would be ok, but we humans seem too often fail in imitating Christ in His love and acceptance for those who have fallen in sin.
I appreciated your comments on the sin condition, and really like what you said about it not being the battle that we fight. That really the fight is a battle of faith, whether we will believe that Christ's sacrifice is really sufficient to redeem our fallen nature. Powerful stuff.
I also liked how you connected in the text from Isaiah and the way that Paul progressed in his exposition on the forgiveness of Christ, going from our sinfulness to Christ's righteousness.
The chapter in Whidden was pretty interesting this week, even thought it was really short. I like how it highlighted Ellen White’s understanding of the balance of mercy and justice. It’s interesting, as Whidden points out, that Satan’s attack on God has shifted from God being arbitrary and unfair to this idea that “God’s mercy destroyed justice, with the result that Christ’s death abrogated the Father’s law.” Whidden also says, “Satan is seeking to pervert both law and grace by denying one or both as essential to the understanding of God’s character of love.” Ellen White says, “Gods’ moral government and His grace are inseparable.” This goes right along with what Paul talks about in Romans. Ellen White, like Paul, had a very balance understanding of law and grace. She didn’t hold the idea that one would or has somehow canceled out the other and taught that they both shed light on who God is and how wonderful what He’s done for us is. In Romans 4 Paul uses the story of Abraham to illustrate the idea of justification by faith. Paul points out that “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” I love how he maps out the story in chapter 4 verses 13-21 by writing of the promise to Abraham made by God and how “against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations”(verse 18). Then in verse 20 Paul says that Abraham “did not waver through unbelief……but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised.” “This is why it was credited to him as righteousness” Paul says (verse 22). I love how Paul uses Abraham to drive this point home. Abraham was considered righteous, not because of any thing he had done, but because he had a great faith and was “persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised.” This is awesome and illustrates perfectly the idea of righteousness by faith. And then Paul even points out the good news for us today in verses 23 -24 saying “The words ‘it was credited to him’ were written not for him alone, but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness – for us who believe”. And we also know that Abraham’s faith caused him to live out his life for God and this is exactly what we should do as well. I love it such good news shared in a powerful way.
Landon I appreciate your thoughts on this weeks reading. Your last part especially resonates with me. It is crazy that we too often tell people they are not righteous enough and then tell them the remedy is to "do this, or do that". That's not at all a balanced approach. We definitely need to learn more to imitate Christ, as you said, in our dealings with others.
Arthur Jennings Doctrine of Salvation Martin Hanna, Ph.D. September 14, 2010
Reflection Paper/Assignment 2
Paul’s letter to the Romans almost sounds like a love letter from God in my opinion because of the enthusiasm in which Paul expresses it and the tone which it takes. Paul introduces himself as a slave but not just an ordinary slave but one with good news. Looking at the text contextually brings out the fact that Paul is a willing servant (slave), to God commission to preach the good news concerning God. That good news is salvation to the Jews and Gentiles.
I always like to take a different approach to understanding things. Several questions come to mind as I read Romans chapter 1. How can a slave have good news? If he is a slave, it appears the only good news he can have would be one of freedom. As one reads carefully, it is a message of freedom. So why does Paul call himself a slave? And what kind of freedom is Paul talking about as it relates to the good news of Christ? Paul is no ordinary slave with a master. Paul talks about his slavery to Christ as one of great privilege. He is claiming freedom for himself and for the Jesus and Gentiles alike who accept Christ.
After Paul says who he is a slave of; he points out what is special about being a slave to master-Christ. His master comes from a royal family line; and not only that He is the Son of God, which was demonstrated by His resurrection from the grave. This invitation Paul wants them to have, is one of salvation through Jesus Christ.
Paul expresses Gods’ love to the Romans and the invitation into His freedom. He commends the church for their steadfast faith and commitment to God which has been traveling throughout world. Paul is eager to re-establish a close relationship with the church. Paul reminds them that his faith and commitment to God as just like theirs – He is not ashamed of the gospel concerning Christ.
This love letter possesses the gift of salvation. Paul makes known the importance of faith as he points to scripture. Did the Romans already have salvation because of their faith or was Paul bringing another element to their understanding? Paul simply taught them the consequences of unbelief and the results it had on those who turned their backs on God.God’s anger is revealed against those who reject him. Their minds became dark and confused. Men and women lust turned to those of the same sex and although they were aware of God’s penalty of death they continued in their evil ways while teaching other to do likewise.
Paul’s message is one that carries a life or death sentence; Life for those whose faith is centered in Christ and death for all others. Paul’s’ invitation invites all to freedom, not the freedom to do whatever one pleases but the freedom that brings eternal life. We are all slaves to something however; we can choose what we are slaves to – whether it is to death or to life. I choose life!
Arthur Jennings Doctrine of Salvation Martin Hanna, Ph.D. September 19, 2010
Reflection Paper/Assignment 3
James and Ellen White had compelling testimonies. Just before James death in 1881 he observed that the church was going in the wrong direction. James messages would be re-directed to those dealing with faith in Christ and love for God. His death had a great influence on Ellen; she vowed to stand by her duty. This was an issue she and James had not settled on. This duty would eventually lead to a belief called justification by faith.
Ellen’s personal testimony was one of fallibility. She stated that she did not claim infallibility or perfection of Christian character. She also expressed disappointment with her spiritual accomplishments. Ellen was humbled as she sought to be filled with God’s Spirit. She desired to be righteous. Her attitude towards the idea of being perfect consisted of being humble while acknowledging fallibility and always trying to reach a higher level of practical righteousness.
Many people try to put false claims on Ellen White by misquoting her or placing her on a pedestal themselves; but if we listened to her words many of those accusations would cease. Ellen White’s personal testimony of fallibility is rejected by many Adventist today. They believed the prophetess to have achieved perfection although she never claimed it. I once heard a preacher scolded because he did not use Ellen White in his sermon. The member/visitor was really angry with the Pastor. When the Pastor asked the member/visitor had he preached the word of God being faithful to the scriptures? The member/visitor replied ‘yes’ but that he should have consulted with the prophetess writings’ before he completed writing his sermon.
The member/visitor did not do this quietly in church but made a bold, loud public display of his feelings. It eventually led to members arguing over the topic. Some members left while others stayed and continued on the same subject. It eventually came up again the next Sabbath. The member/visitor had quoted Ellen White’s writing a lot but had not listened to them (internalized her words). The fallibility became the member/visitor because he could not understand that Ellen was pointing people back to scriptures and not the scriptures needing her counsel. I will always remember the look on the member/visitor face when he was asked to let the subject go. He could not. He had to be escorted out of the church.
Ellen White testimony is one for all of us. Salvation is not earned but a gift from Jesus Christ. Perfection and infallibility are daily goals we aspire to. Humility was Ellen’s way, as it should be ours. Ellen and James both understood the importance of faith in a Christian’s life. Ellen’s endorsement of justification by faith was not only a result from her understanding of scripture but also her experience which would lead to becoming part of her doctrine.
Reading Chap 3 of EW on Salvation really made me think about the current standing of our church, coming from a more conservative up bringing that was traditional and having firsthand experience with this theory of obeying the law and making sure you “do” the right things (or don’t do certain things); The impact of this legalistic system, I believe has been fostered in many of our churches and cripples many of us well into adulthood. Whidden emphasized Ellen’s stance that “we are justified by faith in the “merits” of Christ, but faith will never excuse transgression”. Romans 2:21-24 talks about how we in essence play 2 sides of the field, coinciding with the discussion in class on Thursday we should be mindful of what we say to others. Not excusing wrong doing, just making a point to not place yourself above them. I kind of found myself fixated on this cluster of verses, partly because I've felt like I was being judged by individuals who also had challenges in their lives to overcome and partly because I've been the one to "preach" to friends or family about the way that is right yet I am turning around and struggling with my issues. I’m sure we all have at some point in our lives felt like someone was making you feel like you were always screwing up. I humbly believe that Romans 2 is gently reminding Me (US) that we are examples to others and part of being that example is knowing we are all on the same playing field, and running the same race. Knowledge of truth and what is right comes through knowing Christ, we can’t do right without knowing Him.
Lavina Seawright Response to Alexander Rybachek Assignment 2
I really really like reading your post, it made me think about this thing we call confidence in much greater depth. I have never considered that our "self-confidence" could be something that draws us further away from Christ. Great point regarding our need for Christ and our inability to keep the law on our own.
One of the things Whidden brings up in chapter 5 of Ellen White on Salvation is the idea of hastening Christ’s return by obedience. According to Froom, the lack of holy living was a reason for Ellen White’s repeated explanation of the long delay of the Second Coming (referenced in Whidden, 37). Whidden refers to two important statements by Ellen White that have been the topic of much discussion and debate. Both are from The Great Controversy. The first is from p. 425, and says, “Those who are living upon the earth when the intercession of Christ shall cease in the sanctuary above are to stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator. Their robes must be spotless, their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling.” This is a statement that has made many an Adventist tremble with fear. The other statement Whidden quotes is from p. 623, “He [Christ] had kept His Father’s commandments, and there was no sin in Him that Satan could use to his advantage. This is the condition in which those must be found who shall stand in the time of trouble.”
How should we understand these statements regarding salvation? Shall they be an incentive to live more holy lives so that Christ can come back sooner? And if so, does that mean that we will focus on the elimination of outward sins from our lives? This idea seems to me to be wholly self-centered. It seems to reflect the line of thinking that goes something like this: “I want Christ to come back sooner so that I don’t have to live in this world any longer. In order for him to come, I must change my behavior. This will get me what I want.”
If Christ’s return (and the salvation he brings with him) is dependent on the lives of human beings living “according to the law,” does that mean that our salvation is based on works? I wonder how we can say that our salvation is based entirely on what Christ has done if we cannot actually receive his gift until the “final generation” has achieved a state of sinless perfection.
Perhaps we should understand Ellen White’s statements not to be referring merely to an outward sinlessness, but to a covering of our sins by the acceptance of Christ’s sacrifice for us through faith which is manifest in sincere repentance. If our sins have been covered by the blood of Jesus, Satan cannot bring them up as an accusation against us.
Another way we could understand these statements is in reference, not to something we have to accomplish before Christ can return, but in reference to what he will accomplish in us as part of his return.
In any case, my thoughts here are not polished conclusions, but raw reflections. I look forward to hearing the thoughts of my colleagues on this issue and reading section 4 of Whidden’s book, where he examines these statements in more detail.
Nick, like you, I also really enjoyed this chapter in Whidden. The inseparability of God’s government and his grace that Ellen White refers to is a subject that I am personally passionate about. I believe that it is one of the most important concepts to understand because it helps us understand Scripture and salvation in the context of the Great Controversy. It helps us meet the answer of what Ty Gibson calls the most “natural” branch of theology: theodicy. The world is asking the question, How can God be loving when there is so much suffering in the world? This is a question that the Great Controversy answers in a way that few Christians understand today.
First of all, I could put myself into your story about a pastor who did not use E. G. White quotations enough or at all because I once have done that before myself. I also received the same kind of reaction.
I know you are making a point by using this illustration but I have to say that^^.
Fallibility and mistake are human characteristics no matter how righteous we are. Our wreched body does what we do not want including E. G. White.
I have read Roman Chapter 1. since I was high school student, but every time of my reading I have felt that it is so fresh gospel such as first reading. Although it is same messege, we can get different messeges through this book. I like the book of Roman, especially Roman 1:17. “For in it the righteousness of God is revealed through faith for faith; as it is written, "He who through faith is righteous shall live." This verse says about the way of faith.”Through faith for faith”. We are still on the way of faith. And there is the righteousness of God in the gospel. When we believe that, we can find another faith. What should we believe? The gospel. And what is the godpel? It is John 3:16. “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life”. And it is the righteousness of God. I want to mention that we are on faith. It is based on te righteousness of God, but not our experience. When I read Roman 1:16, I could feel that Paul was the one who experienced the gospel in his life. That is faith that based on experience. It is same faith but deeper faith. We should experience the righteouness of God. That is the only way to reach another faith.
I also could find some insight from the document. I read about what were happened when Adam sinned. There are many results that happened by sin. But I think the most horrible result was Separation from God. At that time Adam never experienced Separation from God. I think that must be so sad and scary. but, more important thing that we should know is God also makes the way to recover our relation. And that is Gospel. There is the righteousness of God. That should be worked by faith.
In the reading this week, I was impressed by Whidden’s breakdown of the decade before the 1888 General Conference session. We always think about 1888 as being a watershed in Adventist history. But many of the things that were emphasized in 1888 Ellen White was already talking about in the years preceding that notable General Conference. Whidden points out that the GC session just before 1888 was actually quite significant itself. Ellen White preached sermons that focused on “pardon and justification.” While Mrs. White always believed in justification by faith, this decade saw a new emphasis on justification, and it actually started at the 1883 GC session.
Many people think that Mrs. White was very legalistic. They think her writings focus too much on works and not enough on grace. But perhaps these people are not looking at her writings in their proper historical context. Mrs. White often emphasized the law in her writings because she was responding to antinomian fanatics. She did not hold up the law as a means of salvation, but she did hold it up as something of great importance. It has often been said that there is a ditch on either side of the road into which we will fall if we are not careful. With the issue of salvation, one ditch is that of legalism—treating the law and our observance of it as the way to salvation. The other ditch is to throw out the law completely—ignoring its God-given requirements and living however we please because we are “under grace.” Neither extreme is acceptable or biblically supported. Ellen White, it turns out, was actually quite balanced in her approach to the relation of law-keeping and justification by faith. At times she emphasized the importance of keeping the law, and at other times she emphasized the wonderful truth that salvation comes by God’s grace through faith and not by our works. She was not radically changing her viewpoint; she was merely pointing people to the truth and resisting those who were veering toward one ditch or the other.
Paul displays a similarly balanced soteriology in Romans. Already in chapter 1 he has shown that the Gentiles stand guilty before God because they have refused to acknowledge His revelation to them. In chapter 2, Paul now turns the argument against the Jews to show that they too are guilty of breaking God’s law. There is no one who can claim innocence; all stand on level ground, guilty of violating God’s commandments. Later on in the book of Romans Paul will argue that the law can never be a means of salvation. The Jews may have thought that they were doing alright because they had the law. But salvation can only come by believing in Jesus. We can never save ourselves by doing good works. However, that does not mean that keeping the law is not important! Both Paul and Ellen White have a tension in their writings between salvation by faith and the importance of law-keeping. Paul goes so far as to say that “it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified (Rom. 2:13). When Jesus saves us, He does not give us a license to do what we please. His law is still binding even when we have been justified by faith. Even after we are saved we are bound to make mistakes and break His law, and when we do we can always come to Him and ask for forgiveness. But His law will always be in effect. It is always binding upon our lives. That is the tension between law and grace.
Alexander, I really appreciate how you took Paul’s portrayal of the plight of humanity and applied it to us. Paul may be addressing Jews in his letter to the Romans, but what he says applies to every person in every era. We’re all sinners; we’ve all messed up. We like to think that we’re doing alright (and as you pointed out, we often like to think we’re really better than everyone else). But we can’t escape the reality that we’re lost. If the story ended there, it would really be a tragedy. But, just as you pointed out, the hopelessness of our lost condition only serves to show us the depth of our need for a Savior. If we didn’t feel hopelessly lost, we might be tempted to think that we could do something to save ourselves. But the vacuum inside of us requires something greater than our own efforts to fill. We need Jesus.
Reed Richardi Assignment # 3 Some reflections after reading the article by Ivan Blazen on Justification by faith and judgment by works in the writings of Paul. The article (actually a collection of articles) was excellent. It answered the question: If we are justified by faith then are we really judged by works, and if so why? I see this as a key question in our discussion of law, grace, and legalism. If our works cannot qualify us for heaven can they disqualify us for heaven. After laying a foundation of the reality of justification by faith and also the reality of judgment by works in the writings of Paul, Blazen then tries to resolve the tension between the two. Here is what struck me. “When Seventh-day Adventists speak of an investigative judgment, it should not be understood as meaning that God seeks information He does not have…So the purpose of the investigative judgment on God's part is not to discover reality but to unmask it, not to find out the truth but to reveal it.” Judgment by works is not because our works qualify us, but because our works reveal us… “by their fruits you shall know them.” Our basis our qualification for heaven is always and forever the righteousness of Christ. But there are many who call Jesus Lord, so the judgment according to works, reveals the reality of our faith and connection to Jesus Christ that is in our hearts. To me this is helps to resolve this tension, because as Blazen points out “renewal is born of forgiveness”. Sanctification is a fruit of justification. Blazen also discusses another divine purpose of judgment by wokrs: “The conclusion of our discussion about the question of assurance is to say that if justification grants assurance, judgment guards it. It guards it from the illusion that assurance is possible without a fundamental relationship to Christ and a committed following of Christ.” There is still much that I do not understand in regards to the relationship of the judgment and justification by faith. One parable the article made me think of was what Christ said in Matt. 7:21-23. Where Christ says that it is only those who do His will. Yet the people are disqualified because they didn’t know Christ, even though their fruits to (from our perspective) seemed to point in their favor. This shows me that God judges fruits and works not superficially as we might. I look forward to studying and thinking more upon this subject.
Reed Richardi Response to Ryan Kilgore Assignment # 4. Ryan I appreciate your thoughts on these two statements by Ellen White. Obviously they are statements that need to be wrestled with. I like very much the thought of taking them as a promise of what God will do in us. I agree that it will be interesting to read what Whidden has to say.
ASSIGNMENT N.1 REFLECTION on reading E.G. White on salvation by Woodrow W.whidden II Section I chapters 1&2: Conversion, Sanctification and early ministry. Conversion is turning or retuning to God ‘through repentance. It is moral change from the former sinful conduct and turn toward God by doing His will. It is seeking good instead of evil. It is withdrawing from evils/idols and returning to Yahweh and observance of His moral precepts. E.G. White was a truth seeker! She was formerly a Methodist believer. It is interesting that she searched the truth and she was ready to make changes according to the revealed word to her from God. She later on became and Adventist believer. That is sanctification” process of being made holy or a process of being cleaned” Perfection is a state of being of perfect, without blemish or sport. Since the entrance of sin to human being, no human being is perfect. We are all sinners we need to be sanctified by the blood of Christ and by His word/scriptures from God, this sanctification is a process, it is no a one day event. Justification is the state of be justified, being counted just or right. We are justified by grace through faith in Jesus. It is no because of what we do/did but because of what Jesus Christ did for us. Conversion, perfection, holiness, and justification are the subjects which trouble so much E.G. White when she was in a Methodist believer. They should be studied prayerfully under the guidance of the Holy Spirit other wise we can result into holiness fanaticism, law extremists, ant-law –extremists, and perfectionist fanaticism.
ASSIGNMENT NO 2 Reflection on the reading of the book of salvation by by Woodrow w. Section one chapter three. Fanaticism is very dangerous. The issue of mr.brown on the state of holiness of life was an extremely fanatic and too emotional. While we are still here on Earth we can’t be in such state/condition whereby we become 100%holy and perfect that we can not sin no more! We are in a battle against the authorities of evils, we are undergoing sanctification, and this sanctification is not a one day event, but it is a process; Jesus Christ always sanctifies us every day by His truth(word)He reveals to us. We are not perfect or sinless that is why we every day pray that God may forgive us our sins. Another extreme is about the law!! The ant- extremists claims that “there is no need of keeping the law.” It is true that we are not saved by keeping the law; we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ but we have to be obedient to His precepts.”He says if you love me keep my commandments”. We don’t keep the law in order to be saved, but we keep the law because we have been saved by Christ. Christ who lives in us enables us to keep His law which is the foundation of His government. It reveals His character (Love). I was so impressed by the words which were spoken by the prophetess ;E.G. White” we are not perfect ,we may err and do say things which are not right, we humbly trying to follow the footsteps of our savior , I wish that self should be hid in Jesus, I do not claim infallibility, or even perfect of Christian character. I am not free from mistakes and errors in my life,” She ended by saying as long as we are not perfect we have the mighty savior!! I rejoice that I have that faith that takes a hold of promises of God that works by love and sanctifies the soul!!” There we should ask God through His Holy spirit to lead us in understanding His words lest we not become extremes and fanatics
ASSIGNMENT NO 2 Reflection on the reading of the book of salvation by by Woodrow w. Section one chapter three. Fanaticism is very dangerous. The issue of mr.brown on the state of holiness of life was an extremely fanatic and too emotional. While we are still here on Earth we can’t be in such state/condition whereby we become 100%holy and perfect that we can not sin no more! We are in a battle against the authorities of evils, we are undergoing sanctification, and this sanctification is not a one day event, but it is a process; Jesus Christ always sanctifies us every day by His truth(word)He reveals to us. We are not perfect or sinless that is why we every day pray that God may forgive us our sins. Another extreme is about the law!! The ant- extremists claims that “there is no need of keeping the law.” It is true that we are not saved by keeping the law; we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ but we have to be obedient to His precepts.”He says if you love me keep my commandments”. We don’t keep the law in order to be saved, but we keep the law because we have been saved by Christ. Christ who lives in us enables us to keep His law which is the foundation of His government. It reveals His character (Love). I was so impressed by the words which were spoken by the prophetess ;E.G. White” we are not perfect ,we may err and do say things which are not right, we humbly trying to follow the footsteps of our savior , I wish that self should be hid in Jesus, I do not claim infallibility, or even perfect of Christian character. I am not free from mistakes and errors in my life,” She ended by saying as long as we are not perfect we have the mighty savior!! I rejoice that I have that faith that takes a hold of promises of God that works by love and sanctifies the soul!!” There we should ask God through His Holy spirit to lead us in understanding His words lest we not become extremes and fanatics
ASSIGNMENT NO 3 Reading reflection on E.G. White on salvation by Woodrow.W.W hidden II Section II; Chapter five Satan has been in controversy or against with the law of God since when he was in heaven; Satan gave charges to God that He has no love, He is a dictator, and He forces people to obey Him. Those are the claims Satan is making even now ; that it is not easy to keep God’s laws because they are difficulty/heavy, no need of keeping the laws because we are under the grace, no works are required because faith only is enough; because God has mercy he will not judge us, but He will save us all!! Satan is real seeking to pervert both law and grace by denying one or both hen Jesus died on the cross He refuted all Satan’s charges against Him. He made it clear that it is possible for a human being to keep the law, because even He as a human being and still He were able to keep the law. He did not sin. God’s law is the revelation of God’s character of love; this love is full of mercy that is just in its expressions. Thus the gospel of salvation is Christ centered story of the revelation of character of God, which both just and merciful whose moral demands are absolutely essential to the welfare of His created beings, and whose mercy is unbounded to penitent souls. But his mercy is extended only on the basis of holy justice.Justce and mercy is both sides of the same coin of God’s character of love. Being under the grace does not men that we violet the laws but grace emphasizes that we keep the law.”Titus 2:11-14.Romans 5:20, 21; 6:1-4; 7:7-12.Thus we keep the law of God because we have been saved by grace through faith in Jesus.
ASSIGNMENT NO .4 Reflection on reading report E.G. White on salvation by Woodrow W.Whidden II A Section II Chapter six-sin the human condition and salvation. Sin is transgression of God’s wills (1SM320), and a condition of depravity that involves inherited propensities, inclinations, tendencies and a bent to sin. As a result of Adam’s sin/disobedience, every human being a transgressor of God’s law, we are sold under sin. Our hearts are naturally depraved and are unable of ourselves to peruse rights things (course).Adam’s sin definitely caused his posterity to be born with inherent propensities of disobedience, but such a depravity is not total depravity, sinners still have ability to respond to God’s saving offer. We are not born with sin, but we are born with sinful nature, bent to evil and propensities to sin which lead sin and guilt. Because of this we are responsible for sins and this is the main issue that confronts not only the sinner but also the redeeming God. It has been thus since the original of in Eden –when Adam ran from God in the shame of their fig-leaf –self-righteousness, God came seeking them. When sin entered the world the will of human beings became enslaved; and through the will sin retains its holds up to humanity. There is no power in the unaided human will to oppose sin but through Jesus Christ the will of the human beings is freed. It if impossible for us to of ourselves to escape from the pit of sin in which we are sunken. His grace alone can quicken the lifeless faculties of the soul, and attract it to God, to holiness. It is only through the grace of God combined with the most earnest effort of our part, that we can obtain victory. Thus salvation is Christ –centered in all its aspects of all calling, conviction, forgiveness empowerment for obedience and glorification, but each step comprehends the humble responses of the human subject. God doesn’t force. in dealing with us sinners.
Doctrine of Salvation Reflection assignment 3 Sept. 21, 2010 Michael Liu From the book of Romans I would want to know how a person is justified discussed. First we observe the passage said who obey the law will be declared righteous. (Rom. 2:13) And God will give to each person according to what he has do in judgment. (2:6,7) It is those who persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, gain eternal life. It seems a person achieves righteous has to do with his behaviors. But on the other hand we see the opposite statement that says no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the Law. (Rom. 3:20) God will Justifies man by faith apart from observing the law. (3:28) In Romans chapter four it uses the case of Abraham to states that those who do not work but trust God who justified the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. If Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about. (4:2,5) David says the same thing that God credits righteousness apart from works. (4:6) If those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless. (4:14) Bible states the reason one cannot justified by works is our weakened sinful human nature has no power to do what the law demands. (8:3) We don’t have what is needed to match the requirement. So God uses another way to Justified us by his grace through redemption that came by Christ as a gift. (3:24; 4:4) God will credit righteousness for those who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. (4:24) So how do we understand those verses seem telling us those who obey the law will be declared righteous? We can see the kind of obedience is an obedience of faith. (1:5) The reason to obey is not to establish credit but to honor God by acknowledge His principle in the law of life. (2:23) The doing is just the fruit of believing and trusting in Him. Why then is the judgment of God focus upon what a person does? (2:6,7) The judgment of God is based on how people respond to the truth of God. (2:2; 1:25) The outward behavior is just a indication of what is in their heart – a genuine people of God. (2:28,29) Their motivation is to please God as an appreciation of who He is and what he had done. Though faith in His blood that He had meet the justice requirement of breaking the law on our behalf, our history has been rewrite. (3:24) _____________________________________________________________________ Response to Alicia Johnston assignment #3 I like the quote of Ellen White’s humble acknowledge of imperfection in character and not free from errors in life. And how shall we judge ourselves. In the light of the possibility of what we can be if we follow Jesus closely from the very beginning to the end. And we are not reaching to the ideal God had planned for us.
Doctrine of Salvation Reflection assignment 3 Sept. 21, 2010 Michael Liu From the book of Romans I would want to know how a person is justified discussed. First we observe the passage said who obey the law will be declared righteous. (Rom. 2:13) And God will give to each person according to what he has do in judgment. (2:6,7) It is those who persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, gain eternal life. It seems a person achieves righteous has to do with his behaviors. But on the other hand we see the opposite statement that says no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the Law. (Rom. 3:20) God will Justifies man by faith apart from observing the law. (3:28) In Romans chapter four it uses the case of Abraham to states that those who do not work but trust God who justified the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. If Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about. (4:2,5) David says the same thing that God credits righteousness apart from works. (4:6) If those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless. (4:14) Bible states the reason one cannot justified by works is our weakened sinful human nature has no power to do what the law demands. (8:3) We don’t have what is needed to match the requirement. So God uses another way to Justified us by his grace through redemption that came by Christ as a gift. (3:24; 4:4) God will credit righteousness for those who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. (4:24) So how do we understand those verses seem telling us those who obey the law will be declared righteous? We can see the kind of obedience is an obedience of faith. (1:5) The reason to obey is not to establish credit but to honor God by acknowledge His principle in the law of life. (2:23) The doing is just the fruit of believing and trusting in Him. Why then is the judgment of God focus upon what a person does? (2:6,7) The judgment of God is based on how people respond to the truth of God. (2:2; 1:25) The outward behavior is just a indication of what is in their heart – a genuine people of God. (2:28,29) Their motivation is to please God as an appreciation of who He is and what he had done. Though faith in His blood that He had meet the justice requirement of breaking the law on our behalf, our history has been rewrite. (3:24) _____________________________________________________________________ Response to Alicia Johnston assignment #3 I like the quote of Ellen White’s humble acknowledge of imperfection in character and not free from errors in life. And how shall we judge ourselves. In the light of the possibility of what we can be if we follow Jesus closely from the very beginning to the end. And we are not reaching to the ideal God had planned for us.
Doctrine of Salvation Reflection assignment 3 Sept. 21, 2010 Michael Liu From the book of Romans I would want to know how a person is justified discussed. First we observe the passage said who obey the law will be declared righteous. (Rom. 2:13) And God will give to each person according to what he has do in judgment. (2:6,7) It is those who persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, gain eternal life. It seems a person achieves righteous has to do with his behaviors. But on the other hand we see the opposite statement that says no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the Law. (Rom. 3:20) God will Justifies man by faith apart from observing the law. (3:28) In Romans chapter four it uses the case of Abraham to states that those who do not work but trust God who justified the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. If Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about. (4:2,5) David says the same thing that God credits righteousness apart from works. (4:6) If those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless. (4:14) Bible states the reason one cannot justified by works is our weakened sinful human nature has no power to do what the law demands. (8:3) We don’t have what is needed to match the requirement. So God uses another way to Justified us by his grace through redemption that came by Christ as a gift. (3:24; 4:4) God will credit righteousness for those who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. (4:24) So how do we understand those verses seem telling us those who obey the law will be declared righteous? We can see the kind of obedience is an obedience of faith. (1:5) The reason to obey is not to establish credit but to honor God by acknowledge His principle in the law of life. (2:23) The doing is just the fruit of believing and trusting in Him. Why then is the judgment of God focus upon what a person does? (2:6,7) The judgment of God is based on how people respond to the truth of God. (2:2; 1:25) The outward behavior is just a indication of what is in their heart – a genuine people of God. (2:28,29) Their motivation is to please God as an appreciation of who He is and what he had done. Though faith in His blood that He had meet the justice requirement of breaking the law on our behalf, our history has been rewrite. (3:24) _____________________________________________________________________ Response to Alicia Johnston assignment #3 I like the quote of Ellen White’s humble acknowledge of imperfection in character and not free from errors in life. And how shall we judge ourselves. In the light of the possibility of what we can be if we follow Jesus closely from the very beginning to the end. And we are not reaching to the ideal God had planned for us.
Response to Chester Clark Thanks Chester for your personal feedback on the subject of unconditional justification. I will definitely take a look at your proposed idea concerning reconciliation(universally,and the role cooperation of the human will (faith) plays in justification.
Response to Elias Misungwi Elias I appreciate your summary on the human depravity due to Adam’s sin. Yet I am grateful that through Jesus Christ humans are free to respond to God’s grace. I agree that salvation is thoroughly the work of God, yet it is our part to humbly respond to this salvation that God richly offers us in Jesus Christ.
Brian Baierl Assignment #3 The reading I did for Doctrine of Salvation was interestingly very similar. In the reading of Romans 3 and the fourth chapter in Ellen White on Salvation, by Whidden both expressed the importance of obedience. There is a world out there that is confused on grace, Law, and faith. These readings put them into perspective. The concept now these days were present in Ellen White’s day: the Law is impossible to follow. The push is to make it sound so impossible that we can do away with the whole Law. I read for another class this week the chapter called “It is Finished,” in Desire of Ages and Mrs. White tells about how Lucifer had this very idea. We need to be careful in talking about how the Law is impossible. Ellen White mentions that it is impossible to be saved by the Law. The Law is still quite important and still stands to exist and be applicable. It is like a steering wheel in a car. A car will not start by a steering wheel, but it will help direct the car where you want to go. The car starts with a key that causes a chain of events to take place. The steering wheel is not part of this chain of events. The steering wheel however cannot be taken out. This item is crucial especially if you want to turn the car and get back on path. The same chapter I read pointed out the Law is the attributes of God. It also made the correlation of righteousness being the attributes required of the Law. “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (2 Corinthians 5:21)” The balance of obedience by faith and gracious redemption is what Ellen White focused on in Chapter 4 and we need that now. Paul in Romans 3 I believe was pointing out the very same thing.
I like the wrestling with the quandary of justification by faith and judged by works. I like the way Blazen worked through the question. The notion of Judgment not qualifying, but revealing. Thank you for sharing this topic. It does however sound like it will be something we can study and study. So keep me up to date on what you find.
Comment on Romans 3 -4 Reflecting on Romans I noticed several unique features of the text as well as unique elements of Pauline Theology. As it relates to the text I noticed that Paul based his argument largely on what had been previously revealed in scripture so that he was not necessarily developing a new theology but rather expounding on the fuller meaning of what had already been revealed to through the prophets. In addition Paul appears to use a rhetorical device of positive/negative statements to assist his reader with understanding the full meaning of his argument. Paul seems to be aware of the value of allowing his reader to draw their own conclusions about his propositional statements. Yet he also, clearly states the view that he wants the reader to embrace. Concerning Paul’s theology he demonstrates a unique perspective on the Gospel that is counter cultural for the primarily Jewish audience he was writing too. Particularly Paul recognizes their presuppositions and biases that have informed their way of thinking and have shaped their theological world view. Paul attempts to address these presuppositions with presuppositions of his own supported by propositional statements that reveal more clearly and accurately the message of the earlier prophets. Paul’s argument is that “all are under sin and all have sinned.” From Paul’s perspective this makes every one both Jew and Gentile equally guilty before God. This would have struck a clear blow at the prejudicial inferiority complex of the Jews. Paul also argues that God is the God of all “both the Jew and the Gentile.” For Paul this appears to demonstrate his primary argument, that all must respond come to God by faith. Paul uses several examples from scripture to include the narrative of Abraham and the sayings of David. Paul’s main point is that God justifies all by faith. Paul demonstrates clearly that it is not works that justifies by faith in a God who justifies. Paul’s theology demonstrates a universal scope and inclusive in its perspective. Ultimately, Paul demonstrates that the God of the Jews is also the God of the Gentiles and that the free gift of justification by faith has been given to us by the Father of us all, “Our Father which art in heaven.”
Kevin Solomon Assignment #3 The articles that I read for this week was on the topics of salvation in which Ángel Manuel Rodríguez evaluated whether “Christ Saved the Human Race.”. In this reading the website topic look at, “In what sense can we speak of Christ's saving the world? Does it mean His death actually redeems all persons, regardless of faith or its absence? Does it mean all are redeemed but only an elect group receives the benefit?” The author’s sought to refute the idea that the statements in which Ellen White says that Christ saved the world should not be misconstrued to argue that Christ legally saved the whole world at the cross. Rodriquez main point is that, statements in which White states that Christ saved the word is refers to Christ objective act of salvation in which, “He made it possible for human beings to be united with God; he "connected earth with heaven." But only repentant sinners can benefit from that salvation. That is what she meant when she said that Christ "saved the world." Again Rodriquez concludes, “Therefore the phrase "saved the world" does not mean that the whole human race was legally saved at the cross. It means that Christ through his life of obedience and his sacrificial death paid the price for our redemption and bridged the separation caused by the sin of Adam making it possible for repentant sinners to have access to and be accepted by God. Lastly for Rodriquez, the fact that Christ redeem all mankind at the cross does not automatically make us one with Him, though Christ purchase us as his ownership we have to consent to become children of God, demonstrating it through obedience, and it is after we consent to becoming children that we become one with God. Thus though Christ obtained redemption for mankind, it is not forced on us; we have to accept this gift in a spirit of repentance and a willingness to separate from sin. Christ through his atonement has paid the price for our redemption, and the fact of this objective work, “makes it possible for all to return to God, and acknowledge Christ as their rightful owner who can actually deliver them from Satan’s enslaving power.” My reading of this article has clarified my understanding of the nature of salvation, and has given me some things to think about.
Revised Comment on Romans 3 -4 Reflecting on Romans I noticed several unique features of the text as well as various unique elements of Pauline Theology. As it relates to the text, I noticed that Paul based his argument largely on what had been previously revealed in scripture so that he was not necessarily developing a new theology, but rather expounding on the fuller meaning of what had already been revealed through the prophets. In addition, Paul appears to use a rhetorical device of positive/negative statements to assist his reader with understanding the full meaning of his argument. Paul seems to be aware of the value of allowing his reader to draw their own conclusions about his propositional statements. Yet, he also clearly states the view that he wants the reader to embrace. Concerning Paul’s theology, he demonstrates a unique perspective on the Gospel that is counter cultural for the primarily Jewish audience he was writing to. Particularly Paul recognizes their presuppositions and biases that have informed their way of thinking and have shaped their theological world view. Paul attempts to address these presuppositions with presuppositions of his own supported by propositional statements that reveal more clearly and accurately the message of the earlier prophets. Paul’s argument is that “all are under sin and all have sinned.” From Paul’s perspective this makes every one both Jew and Gentile equally guilty before God. This would have struck a clear blow at the prejudicial inferiority complex of the Jews. Paul also argues that God is the God of all “both the Jew and the Gentile.” For Paul this appears to demonstrate his primary argument, that all must come to God by faith. Paul uses several examples from scripture to include the narrative of Abraham and the sayings of David. Paul’s main point is that God justifies all by faith. Paul demonstrates clearly that it is not works that justifies but faith in a God who justifies. Paul’s theology demonstrates both an inclusive perspective and a universal scope. Ultimately, Paul demonstrates that the God of the Jews is also the God of the Gentiles and that the free gift of justification by faith has been freely given to us by the Father of us all, “Our Father which art in heaven.”
Kevin, thank you for raising the discussion and sharing with us some aspects of your personal journey of discernment and assemblage of different pieces - the legal justification, predetermination and free will of man, into the one big picture of Salvation.
My journey led me to realization that justification is an objective universal act, which deals with Satan’s accusation against the divine law and human nature. The fall of men supposed to demonstrate that God’s world order is not perfect. Either the law is imperfect, or the created humanity is defective. By casting Lucifer out of heaven God designated his position in regard to the law. Now Satan believed, that God would have to give up humanity. The incarnation and holly, obedient life of Jesus up to the death on the cross has proved that there is nothing wrong with human nature. It is possible to be human and live in harmony with God’s law. It seems like this act of justification of human nature is indeed universal. It doesn’t require personal respond. It is just the objective reality, the refutation of Satan’s lie. I recently discovered an interesting quote. “Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind, and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of God, and the nature of man, and their unchangeable relation to each other.” {GC 262.1} It appears, that not only nature of God is the foundation of the law and the reason of its irrevocability, but also the nature of man and the relation between man and God.
However, talking about Chester’s suggestion, it seems for me that reconciliation is universal reality in terms of God’s provisional initiative of salvation, but subjective in terms of human respond. Though reconciliation is quite similar to justification, it’s more relational, it requires a respond of man; otherwise it doesn’t leave freedom of choice. This is why, I think Paul says in 2 Cor. 5:20 “We beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”
As I read this chapter I found myself thinking back to the times of the New Testament and trying to apply the cultural and religious background while I was reading. The challenge however comes when trying to apply some of these texts to our modern day. I do firmly believe that God has chosen the Seventh-day Adventist Church in the current time in the same way he chose the Jews of those days. So what I decided to when I read through it a second time was replace the word "Jew(s)" with the word "Adventist(s)" and replace the word "circumcised" with the words "Sabbath keeping".
The first thing I noticed right away is that it completely contextualized the book to where we are today. In fact I didn't get very far into the chapter before I was thinking on a totally different plain. For example, here is the first verse " What advantage then has the Adventist, or what is the profit of Sabbath keeping? Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the teachings. of God". I found this to be insightful because I have seen some attitudes within Adventism which seem to lean towards the idea that only those who are Adventists and keep the Sabbath will be saved.
This chapter is wrapped up nicely when, if using this word replacement, when it says in verse 28 "Or is He the God of the Adventists only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles?" Although I didn't specifically come up with a word replacement for "Gentiles" I think it would be appropriate to use "other Christians" or "everyone else" in place of it.
Again, this is more of a devotional exercise rather than theological, but can you really separate devotion from theology, or vice versa? As we have been learning so far in class everything intertwines.
Assignment 3 The third article makes everything clear on the issue of what Ellen G White meant when she said in her writings that Jesus saved all human kind on the cross. Jesus didn’t literally saved everyone on the cross but rather through His death and defeating Satan He was creating a pathway between us and the Father so we can have the opportunity of being saved. We can either accept it and be saved or reject it. But Jesus didn’t save everyone regardless of what our decision was. It is all up to us, we now have the option of being redeemed. Due to the victory over Satan, Jesus was able to redeem Adam, which doesn’t even compare to the temptations that Satan threw against Jesus. I think this is very relevant and important for everyone to understand the plan of salvation.Lets remember that Adam and Eve did not even pass the first temptation (food) Jesus went all the way to defeat the devil... Later on in the article it states statements of Ellen G White in where she explains whether we were redeemed at the cross or not. The first quote explains in details that we belong to Jesus because not did He created us but also died so we could have the redemption. We accept that gift through demonstrating it through having obedience to God. Just because Jesus redeemed us at the cross doesn’t make us be with Him. It is not a gift that is forced upon us but rather to everyone who is willing to take it. The theory of a universal legal justification teaches that salvation comes to everyone even if they are living still in their sins and have not repented. “On the cross of Calvary He paid the redemption price of the race. And thus He gained the right to rescue the captives from the grasp of the great deceiver…” Here I notice that by Christ paying for us He now has the right to rescue us from Satan. And this was necessary as the article said Satan doesn’t let his people go free, and so with Christ death, now Christ has a right to redeem us. After we receive Jesus by “faith” is that we are “blessed with all spiritual blessing in heavenly places in Christ.” All of the comments that Ellen G White states clearly explain its not universal legal justification. People sometimes use that to back up there belief which its not biblical. I feel like the only reason a person will be lost is because they didn’t accept that gift of redemption that Christ offers us.
Man thanks for that tip, i read chapter 3 again doing that, and it makes good sense. We can really taste the chapter by contextualizing it. I also like how Paul doesnt go to the extremes, and makes a fine line between both groups, ending with: "31 Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law." Only by loving Christ then the fulfillment of His law comes natural, not the way around. And on your question i think its a matter of how you define devotion and theology.
Dario Ferreira Doctrine of Salvation Assignment #4
In Chapter 4, the Apostle Paul as if trying to prove what he had said in verse 21 of the previous chapter (chapter 3), that the righteousness of God was witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, then begins to narrate the story of Abraham, touching glimpse into David and the experience that both had with the justice of God. Being a friend of God (Is.41: 8), and have lived up to expectations of God (Gen 26:5), no one better than Abraham could present their works in order to gain the favor of God. But it was not because of his works that Abraham was accepted by God. He was accepted by his faith: “For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.”” (Rom. 4:3). His loyalty to the precepts of God, were the result of his unquestioning faith in God. When one works, it works expecting some sort of reward for their efforts. By practicing good works, man is seeking to be rewarded for it. Moreover, our good behavior does not put God as the debtor before us, but it is trust in Him who brings the blessing of justification. David became a classic example of the grace of God applied to him who has faith. David simply acknowledged that he was guilty and clung in faith to God's mercy. Circumcision was for the Jew, a visible sign of the covenant God made with Abraham. Therefore, in the mind of a Jew, only they were entitled to the privileges of the covenant. And now, Paul has challenged this statement by saying that Abraham was uncircumcised when he was justified by faith (1:9,10). Abraham was circumcised at least 13 years later (Gen. 17:24-26) that God has justified him (Gen. 15:1-6). One can conclude, therefore, by the words of the Apostle (1:9,10) that circumcision was only an outward sign of the state of just that God has bestowed him, long time before, as a result of their faith in Him. The justification of Abraham was not based on any merit or effort on his part (keeping the law), but his faith in God. Paul concludes chapter 4 of Romans by saying that the same justification, received by Abraham, is available to those who follow his example of faith, having the same quality of faith that Abraham had.
It became clear to me while reading the chapter 5 Whidden, that “the great controversy theme, with its emphasis on the balance Between Law and Grace” is the most doctrinal theme That Contribute to Ellen White's understanding about salvation. She presents this understanding succinctly in The Desired of Ages, in the chapter entitled, “It Is Finished” where she has three Satan’s complaints against the character and the government of God and God's answers to them. I am very impressed by the wonderful way God guided his people to go and revealing its truth at every step, as he did through his servant Ellen White.
The fourth paper on Salvation from Biblical Research Institute, “Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10”, written by Angel Rodriguez discusses understanding the last part of 1 Timothy 4:10 which says, “who is the savior of all men, especially of Those Who Believe.” Angel Rodriguez has three common understandings given to this passage. The dilemma is especially created for the word “especially” which apparently suggests that there is a group specially saved. None of the solutions proposed to solve the question, so the author proposes a possibility of understanding. Based on 1 Timothy 2:4, the author suggests that this text might say, in other words all God desires to be saved and necessary has done everything to save them, but he is the Savior of those who now believe.” I appreciated very much the position of Angel Rodriguez, on the understanding that text because it is based on context and does not contradict the biblical doctrine of salvation.
I found it interesting how you expressed about the vision of Ellen White regarding the balance between law and grace. Have you compared what Paul says in Romans with what Ellen White wrote, “Gods’ grace and His moral government are inseparable.”
Like you, I also realized the convincingly that Paul talks about justification by faith, using the experience of faith of Abraham who was considered righteous not because of any thing he had done, but because he had a great faith.
Perfection is a "hot topic" nowadays, you have raised good questions, that I believe it would be good to discuss in class. Hopefully Professor Hannah would answer them. I believe we have to prepare ourselves pretty well with this topic, since there are many members in the church who believe in that. blessings
I was at the library, and a young guy who I played soccer with approached me and asked me: “How would you response to this question?” the question was: “are Adventist sanctified before they are baptized or after they are baptized?” I find it interesting that later on my reading on Romans chapter four would complete my answer for his question. First I used Paul, saying that we have only one nature, then when we meet Christ and accept Him into our lives we start having two natures inside of us, the spiritual and the flesh one, and they do not get along, so it’s a constant fight. This fight doesn’t start with the baptismal, its starts when we invite Jesus to take over. The baptism is an external ceremony. I used the analogy of a wedding. We love our future wife before we get married. The wedding is a ceremony where I express my love for her in front of loved ones. You don’t get married and then love your wife, this happens before. (Of course this illustration would not work in India). But after I answered his question, I came across chapter four of Romans which says: 9 Now, is this blessing only for the Jews, or is it also for uncircumcised Gentiles?[c] Well, we have been saying that Abraham was counted as righteous by God because of his faith. 10 But how did this happen? Was he counted as righteous only after he was circumcised, or was it before he was circumcised? Clearly, God accepted Abraham before he was circumcised! 11 Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous—even before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are counted as righteous because of their faith. 12 And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised." I have not shown to the guy this verses. But i will. God is so good to us. I am greatly thankful for Scripture. What do you think? Did I go off with my answer?
Thanks for sharing that summary, it helped to understand chapter four in a better way. The example of David is a good one, since even though he had committed adultery and even though he had committed murder. God said about David "a man after Gods own heart" because David walked with God, and like you said: "David simply acknowledged that he was guilty and clung in faith to God's mercy." blessings
Alexander Rybachek Doctrine of Salvation Assignment #4
The third chapter of Romans is the last missing detail in the whole perspective of Paul on salvation. I like that Paul explains everything on different levels and in different ways. First two chapters Paul was describing the poor condition of the world: both Gentiles and Jews. Now in this third chapter Paul is saying that there are advantages in being Jew, but with the advantage comes more responsibility. Thus there is nothing about the advantage of being Jew in terms of salvation, but advantage of knowing more about God and privilege to represent Him in fuller light (Rom 3:2). What Paul is saying further is remarkable: regardless of our faithfulness, God is always faithful. Indeed, we mess up all the time, but God - never. Thus if we say we keep the law, Romans chapter two says we really do not. But In chapter three we see that Paul is showing that all have sinned: Jews and Gentiles, and God saves everybody by grace: Jews and Gentiles. This what the problem was with the Jews. They thought they were saved by keeping the law, but here we see that nobody is faithful except God. If we are not faithful and fall short of the glory of God, God's faithfulness covers our sins. This is the righteousness of God revealed to us: we are all sinners, but He declares us righteous if we believe His righteousness is sufficient to cover our sins. This is the righteousness through faith. Paul is careful thou and says that nobody should take advantage of God's righteousness and sin more, so that God's righteousness and grace would multiply. No, this was not what he was trying to say. But what he was saying is basically that we have no merits before God, all were worthy of punishment, but God's righteousness was revealed in His faithfulness and grace. No one can stay before God and say: I am worthy. We are not worthy, but saved by grace. Thus there are advantages in being Jew, but when it comes to salvation nobody has any advantages: all are judged on the matter of faith. If you believe God's righteousness covers you – you are saved no matter who you are – Jew or Gentile. But it you do not believe that only God's righteousness saves you, if you hang on to your merits – you do not need God's grace and salvation, that means you are lost. I wonder where Paul goes further...
ASIGNMENT 1- NOTES ON ELLEN WHITE AND SALVATION BOOK:
As I started reading the book,” Ellen White on Salvation’, I was struck by the connection between her own experience and her understanding of the doctrine of Salvation. Her own struggle with the tension between Sin and Forgiveness and the outcome it has in one’s life defined her own opinion about salvation. Also along those lines she helped define the denomination approach to salvation as a doctrine. I never saw it from the perspective that an experience of salvation was something that God provided for her so that it would be meaningful to understand how salvation works and teach it to the church. I guess I am figuring out that actually all the prophets and messengers God sent to his People also experienced something amazing sot that they would have credibility and conviction of the message they had to pass on. I am going to go as far as to say that without that experience it would have been really difficult for them to have credibility. In Ellen White’s ordeal it was something progressive, something she had to study and contemplate in order to grasp the real meaning of Salvation for her and for all human beings. It was an amazing responsibility put on her and God allowed her to battle with different aspects and different points of view on Salvation, which contributed, for her to be even more convinced and solid in her belief that we are saved by faith in Jesus. All the people that rebelled against her approach to Salvation only provided a testing ground for her beliefs, the solid foundation she had in scripture and the revelations of God made her a column holding all the pieces together and preserving the purity of doctrine we need in order to succeed as a movement turning into an organized church. Basically all of the doctrines we have in our Denomination today depended on her experience with salvation and her way to understand the love of God and how He forgives his children. Without a clear understanding of Salvation a church has no way for existence or basis to preach the gospel. I see this book and all the struggles the denomination had in our history as a way to understand how God actually reveals his message, it is never given in a way that will not be controversial, it is necessary to have a debate in order to have a firm foundation and the wisdom that comes from a lot of minds working together to understand the eternal truth that comes from God.
ASSIGNMENT 1 Notes on the book “ ELLEN WHITE ON SALVATION” by Dr. Woodrow W. Whidden II
As I started reading the book,” Ellen White on Salvation’, I was struck by the connection between her own experience and her understanding of the doctrine of Salvation. Her own struggle with the tension between Sin and Forgiveness and the outcome it has in one’s life defined her own opinion about salvation. Also along those lines she helped define the denomination approach to salvation as a doctrine. I never saw it from the perspective that an experience of salvation was something that God provided for her so that it would be meaningful to understand how salvation works and teach it to the church. I guess I am figuring out that actually all the prophets and messengers God sent to his People also experienced something amazing sot that they would have credibility and conviction of the message they had to pass on. I am going to go as far as to say that without that experience it would have been really difficult for them to have credibility. In Ellen White’s ordeal it was something progressive, something she had to study and contemplate in order to grasp the real meaning of Salvation for her and for all human beings. It was an amazing responsibility put on her and God allowed her to battle with different aspects and different points of view on Salvation, which contributed, for her to be even more convinced and solid in her belief that we are saved by faith in Jesus. All the people that rebelled against her approach to Salvation only provided a testing ground for her beliefs, the solid foundation she had in scripture and the revelations of God made her a column holding all the pieces together and preserving the purity of doctrine we need in order to succeed as a movement turning into an organized church. Basically all of the doctrines we have in our Denomination today depended on her experience with salvation and her way to understand the love of God and how He forgives his children. Without a clear understanding of Salvation a church has no way for existence or basis to preach the gospel. I see this book and all the struggles the denomination had in our history as a way to understand how God actually reveals his message, it is never given in a way that will not be controversial, it is necessary to have a debate in order to have a firm foundation and the wisdom that comes from a lot of minds working together to understand the eternal truth that comes from God.
It’s interesting to read how seriously Ellen White struggled with her understanding of Salvation and Sanctification. The fact that she experienced such despair as a child that she “coveted death” is evidence of how deep her struggle was. It’s sad that she wrestled with such feelings of spiritual unworthiness even after she had given her life to Christ. The assurance of joy of Salvation evaded her for so long and caused her so much inner torment.
I had a similar experience early in my Christian experience. At times I felt the fear of being eternally lost. Rather than being excited about the Blessed Hope I dreaded that day. I felt like I would never be good enough for God. The fact is I was right in my thinking, at least in a way. We will never be good enough for God as long we are in this sinful flesh and that is why we need Jesus. In the words of Isaiah “all our righteousnesses is like filthy rags” (Isaiah 64:6). As Paul said “all have sinned and are coming short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). The problem is we sometimes focus on what we have to do to the point of despair forgetting that it’s about what God has done and will do in us. The promise is made in Philippians 1:6 “He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ.”
The other thing I found interesting chapter 2 of Whidden’s Ellen white on Salvation was the Ellen White’s concept of Sanctification. This concept is not new to me since I’ve been an Adventist for more than 10 years now. But as I consider sanctification, I notice that the word “sanctified” is used several times in the New Testament to refer to God’s people (1 Corinthians 1:2; 6:11; Hebrews 10:10; Jude 1:1). It seems as if the sanctification is referred to as a past event; something that has already happened rather than something that is happening. Now I don’t believe that anyone can claim sinlessness or absolute perfection and Ellen White didn’t either. That’s why “her ministry...would move her more and more to emphasize that sanctification was not the work of the moment, but that of a lifetime” (22). However, how do we harmonize the concept of sanctification as an ongoing process with the instances in the New Testament when God’s people are referred to as being “sanctified” as in it being a past event. Is the Bible referring to a different concept altogether or is the Bible referring to the beginning of Sanctification?
Jan Paulsen possibly provides an answer in his BRI article entitled Salvation By Faith. He states that “sanctification, though not identical to justification, is firmly embedded in that experience...one cannot be justified without simultaneously beginning the new life.” Maybe seeing the connection between Justification and Sanctification is the answer. Either way it’s something that’s caught my attention as I’ve come across passages that speak of God’s people being “sanctified.”
It’s interesting to read how seriously Ellen White struggled with her understanding of Salvation and Sanctification. The fact that she experienced such despair as a child that she “coveted death” is evidence of how deep her struggle was. It’s sad that she wrestled with such feelings of spiritual unworthiness even after she had given her life to Christ. The assurance and joy of Salvation evaded her for so long and caused her so much inner torment.
I had a similar experience early on in my Christian walk. At times I felt the fear of being eternally lost. Rather than being excited about the Blessed Hope I dreaded that day. I felt like I would never be good enough for God. The fact is I was right in my thinking, at least in a way. We will never be good enough for God as long we are in this sinful flesh and that is why we need Jesus. In the words of Isaiah “all our righteousnesses is like filthy rags” (Isaiah 64:6). As Paul said “all have sinned and are coming short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). The problem is we sometimes focus on what we have to do to the point of despair forgetting that it’s about what God has done and will do in us. The promise is made in Philippians 1:6 “He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ.”
The other thing I found interesting chapter 2 of Whidden’s Ellen white on Salvation was the Ellen White’s concept of Sanctification. This concept is not new to me since I’ve been an Adventist for more than 10 years now. But as I consider sanctification, I notice that the word “sanctified” is used several times in the New Testament to refer to God’s people (1 Corinthians 1:2; 6:11; Hebrews 10:10; Jude 1:1). It seems as if the sanctification is referred to as a past event; something that has already happened rather than something that is happening. Now I don’t believe that anyone can claim sinlessness or absolute perfection and Ellen White didn’t either. That’s why “her ministry...would move her more and more to emphasize that sanctification was not the work of the moment, but that of a lifetime” (22). However, how do we harmonize the concept of sanctification as an ongoing process with the instances in the New Testament when God’s people are referred to as being “sanctified” as in it being a past event. Is the Bible referring to a different concept altogether or is the Bible referring to the beginning of Sanctification?
Jan Paulsen provides a possible answer in his BRI article entitled Salvation By Faith. He states that “sanctification, though not identical to justification, is firmly embedded in that experience...one cannot be justified without simultaneously beginning the new life.” Maybe seeing the connection between Justification and Sanctification is the answer. Either way it’s something that’s caught my attention as I’ve come across passages that speak of God’s people being “sanctified.”
It’s mind boggling to me that a someone could actually come out and say that they are sinless. The fact that Brother B in chapter three of Whidden’s Ellen White On Salvation felt this way about himself is an indication that he was spiritually delusional. The Bible clearly states that “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8). According to Ellen White, having such an attitude is also an indication that we are not very close to Christ. She says that “those who live nearest to Jesus discern most clearly the frailty and sinfulness of humanity, and their only hope is in the merit of a crucified and risen Saviour" (The Great Controversy, p. 471). The closer I am to Christ the more I become aware of my sins and short comings.
Christian perfection is easily misinterpreted. We need to understand that when Christ spoke of us being perfect as our father in Heaven is perfect (Matt.5:48) He wasn’t talking about being sinless. The immediate context of the passage is dealing with loving our enemies. Likewise the parallel passage, Luke 6:36, says “be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.” When Jesus is talking about perfection He is talking about loving as He loved and being merciful as He was merciful. It’s not about achieving a sinless state though we should always strive for Godliness and Godlikeness. Even the larger context of the Bible doesn’t present perfection as being sinless. As Edward Heppenstall explains in his BRI article entitled How Perfect Is "Perfect" Or Is Christian Perfection Possible? the meaning of Biblical perfection is “spiritual maturity, full grown spiritually, ripe in spiritual understanding, whole in response to God, keeping nothing back.”
As I read chapter three of Whidden’s Ellen White On Salvation I appreciated how Ellen White dealt with those who were on either side of the Biblical teaching of perfection. I respect her balance in upholding “the assurance of God’s acceptance through faith” (28) while maintaining a loyalty to God’s law. Ultimately, “faith without works is dead” (James 2:20) and if our hearts are truly circumcised (Romans 2:29) then we will bear the fruit of salvation in our lives.
What I liked most about Chapter three in Whidden’s Ellen White On Salvation was the final quote from Ellen White. She says that “Jesus loves to have us come to Him just as we are – sinful, helpless, dependant” (28). I found it comforting because regardless of how “perfect” we are, we all need the Saviour. We all have our moments when we fail, fall, and let both ourselves and God down. But knowing that we have such a loving Saviour and Heavenly Father gives us hope beyond ourselves.
Reading Chapetr 4 of Romans, Paul having settled the question as to how Abraham secured the righteousness of God, Paul proceeds to show that that is the only way anyone else can obtain righteousness. "To him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly,his faith is counted for righteousness." Rom. 4:5. What kindness! What great compassion! The Lord, who is "righteous in all His ways," offers His own perfect righteousness to any and every poor, weak, helpless, hopeless sinner who will believe what He says. Read it again: "To him that worketh not, but believeth on Him, ... his faith is counted for righteousness." So important, so fundamental is this way of righteousness that the apostle goes on through this entire chapter to restate and repeat and press home to all what he has made so clear in few words. Here are some of his statements: "Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works." Rom. 4:6. "We say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness." Rom. 4:9 "And being fully persuaded that, what He had promised, He was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; but for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; who was delivered for our offenses [sins], and was raised again for our justification [righteousness]." Rom. 4:21-25. This clear-cut, positive statement reveals to every lost soul for all time the only way from sin and guilt and condemnation to righteousness and deliverance from condemnation and death. With this agree all the other statements of the Scriptures regarding this great problem of being made righteous. The three words, "righteousness by faith," express the most wonderful trans-action in this material world which the human intellect can grasp. They express the greatest gift that God, in His infinite plenitude, could bestow upon mankind. The great fact expressed by this phrase of three words, has been studied, expounded, and rejoiced in by millions during the past ages, and it is still the theme of the most sublime interest and importance to the human family.
Reed Richardi Assignment # 4 Some reflections after reading the article by Gerhard Pfandl Some Thoughts on Original Sin. This article was informative and challenging. The history of different beliefs in regards to original sin made me realize why the concept of original sin had always been a bit fuzzy in my brain; there are numerous slightly different views. I appreciated the brief sketch of the the development of the Adventist understanding of the concept. I thought it was interesting that even though the predominant early Adventist view (it seem s Ellen White was an exception), was lacking in that it saw only the physical effects of Adam’s sin as being passed down, it seems that it fit well with our understanding of the first and second death. The first death is a universal consequence of sin while the second death is a penalty for those sins not covered by the blood of Jesus. Thus they affirmed we inherited the first death from Adam but not the second. One question I have about the position of some early Adventist pioneers is whether or not they thought that we were each born in a morally neutral state like Adam. This would seem to be a very hard position to maintain. The quotes Pfandl uses by Ellen White later on make very plain what to me seems obvious; humans are born with a bent toward evil. Children (and adults) are like gardens where weeds grow naturally and easily but vegetables only with intention, work and the grace of God. Pfandl mentions that James White admitted to the depraved nature, but says nothing else about others who held the position. If they believed in the moral neutrality of man at birth, did they think that upon imitation of sin around us our nature became depraved? But if they did admit the inheritance of moral depravity, then how was this view substantially different than the later view supported by Ellen White? I also found in interesting that viewing sin and the fall as separation from God is the framework from which the modern Adventist view of “original sin” is based. The implications for salvation are apparent. Take for example the following quote: Sin is not merely wrong acts and thoughts, but sinfulness as well, an inherent inner disposition inclining us to wrong acts and thoughts. Thus it is not simply that we are sinners because we sin; we sin because we are sinners” (Pfandl quoting Millard Erickson). If sin is more than just an act than in order to be saved I need more than justification, I need sanctification, I need transformation. I need not God not just to forgive my sins but to “have mercy on me a sinner” to “create in me a clean heart”. I need salvation not just because of what I do but because of who I am. I praise the Lord for Jesus Christ who became for me my righteousness, sanctification and redemption (1 Cor. 1:30)!
Reed Richardi Response # 4 to Paulo Tenorio Assignment # 4
Paul I liked your response to the question about sanctification. I thought your illustrations were appropriate. Certainly Christ does not wait until baptism to begin His work of making us new creatures. This happens from the moment we are in Christ. Praise the Lord for His eagerness to do inside of us what we cannot do for ourselves.
Sinless perfection: is it attainable while we are still living on earth? This question has often caused much conversation, confusion, and even conflict in the Adventist church. Some will maintain the answer is yes; sinless perfection is possible and should be our goal. Others will argue the answer is no; we will never be completely sinless until we reach heaven. Both sides are equally insistent that their view is the correct one, and they both wield abundant quotations from Scripture and from Ellen White to defend their position.
I feel I have a better understanding of this issue now that I have read Chapter 4 in Ellen White on Salvation, along with Edward Heppenstall’s BRI article on perfection. In the book, Woodrow Whidden gives us a glimpse into the spiritual journeys of James and Ellen White. While some Adventists may quote Mrs. White’s writings to support their idea of sinless perfection, Whidden makes it clear that her view was balanced. She may have held up lofty goals for the Christian life, but she was always humble in speaking of her own journey. Mrs. White never made any claims to be sinless. Certainly she was striving toward Christ-likeness (and part of that would include sinlessness). But she never made any claims to have arrived at a perfect state.
Heppenstall’s article surveys both the Bible and Mrs. White’s writings on the issue of perfection. He too shows that while perfection is something Christians are to strive for, it is never something we can say we have attained. In a sense, perfection is more of a process than it is a destination. This is why we say sanctification is the work of a lifetime. It is not a state or a specific point in time at which we arrive; it is a journey of becoming more and more like Jesus every day.
Heppenstall takes a fairly strong stance on the issue of sinless perfection and argues that it is not possible while we are still living on earth. He makes a convincing argument and supports it with Scripture and Mrs. White’s writings. He shows that those who argue strongly in favor of sinless perfection are misinterpreting the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy. Heppenstall is no doubt arguing so strongly against the sinless perfection idea because many Adventists have taken this idea too far. But perhaps there is still a balance for which we should strive. Is sinless perfection our goal? Yes and no. On the one hand, we are striving to be like Jesus, who was sinless and perfect. So if He is our Example, then yes, sinless perfection is our goal. But on the other hand, is sinless perfection in and of itself the final goal? No. Being like Jesus is the goal! We ought not to be trying harder and harder to be sinless so we can say of ourselves, “I have arrived; I am sinless.” That would be pride—a grievous sin.
Here’s how I look at it: it is unimportant whether or not I can achieve a state of sinless perfection on this earth because even if I did I wouldn’t realize it. 1 John 1:8 is probably the clearest verse on this issue. It is, however, of vital importance that I strive to be like Jesus each and every day. It is important that I strive for perfection, for maturity, for completion. To paraphrase Paul, I ought to be a spiritual grown-up and not a spiritual baby. If I keep my focus on becoming like Jesus, He’ll take care of the rest. He will do the perfecting for me. The more I become like Him, the more I’ll realize how far I really have to go to truly be like Him. I will be painfully aware of my sinfulness the closer I get to Him. But if I keep my faith in Him, when Judgment Day comes I won’t have anything to worry about. He will have finished the good work He began in me, and I will be perfectly fit for heaven.
Reed, your blog raised two very interesting questions in my mind. First: “If our works cannot qualify us for heaven can they disqualify us for heaven?” Your summary of the BRI article you read really piqued my curiosity about this. I’ll have to read that particular article; it sounds really good. What exactly is the nature of judgment according to our works, especially in light of the biblical teaching of salvation by grace through faith alone?
Secondly, you briefly discussed Jesus’ parable in Matt. 7:21-23. You said, “This shows me that God judges fruits and works not superficially as we might.” How very true that is. God sees things the way they really are, while our understanding of reality is quite shallow (which only further strengthens Jesus’ admonition at the beginning of Matt. 7 not to judge others). When Jesus returns there will be lost people who think they did all the right things. In their self-delusion, they’ll list off all the good works they did for Jesus, thinking their works will somehow qualify them for heaven. From God’s perspective, though, they were never really doing His will. That’s a sobering thought, and a reminder to us that we’d better make sure we’re really on track with the Lord. Self-delusion leads to self-destruction.
Then doctrine of substitution has been so far the explanation Protestantism has presented as regard to means of our salvation. Brought and led by the Reformers this doctrine was found to be the most accurate as far as comparing it with others models of salvation. But though correct the doctrine of substitution leaves some important issues which need to be addressed. Though the Bible clearly teaches that believing sinners are justified on the basis of the life and death of Jesus substituting for their own sinful life [sees Romans 10:4; Acts 13:39]. I am asking myself a question and I am honestly still wrestling with. If we consider these following verses: Deuteronomy 24:16 “The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.” 2Kings 14:6, restates the same commandment, and Ezekiel expanded it in the eighteenth chapter from verse one to twenty, we can see that it will be contrary to His Law for God to put to death Jesus for the sins committed by us. I could God be just in justifying us, while we uphold the doctrine of substitution? I do believe in the doctrine of substitution to be the most accurate, but unless we solve the internal ethical and legal issues that it brings up, we may have more difficulties in presenting as an acceptable and reasonable model of salvation In other words, how can God justify sinners on the basis of what Christ did and still maintain His integrity to His own law which condemns us to death? If we believe that the Law of God is founded on the principle of love, it will be hard for us to say that it will be easily satisfied just with the f=death on anybody or somebody. I believe the law wouldn’t have be satisfied unless it had seen the sinner, that is , the transgressor in Jesus. And in saying that I am not suggesting that Jesus had sinned, God forbid it, for if it were so He could pay for His own death, But I would rather suggest that Christ did not only stand merely as an individual among many, but also stood for many individuals. See Romans 5:12, 18; 1 Corinthians 15:21-22. I think we need to reconsider and define somehow the idea that both Adams stand as representatives, and clearly define the nature of these representatives
Dr Hanna usually suggests wholistic approach in practically all the issues which are being tackled and presently on the Substitutionary atonement and the moral influence. I personally see this approach not so bad but rather wise and prudent. But I do still have a question, Are we supposed to approach views by their contents or by their intents? Because If we just go by the content I guess we just have to pick what is right in each views and make as he suggests a wholistic view, but if we go by the intent, I don't think that considering some positive aspect of moral influence for example will be something worth considering. I do not know what you think, but I really need some light on this
Assignment #4 Again, the whole free-will/predestination can of worms is opened. It seems so central to the idea of salvation yet we seem to often delegate it to the periphery. It is amazing to me that I had not seen the total pervasiveness of this issue. Both from reading Romans and from Whidden’s chapter, as well as my work on the paper proposal for this class, this week I have been thinking more and more about this idea. I have come to a very basic understanding that thankfully from the reading of Whidden’s book seems to be in line with Ellen White’s thinking. We are so far lost that without God’s seeking we could never be saved and the main human response that will determine salvation is whether or not we will submit to be a part of the process of salvation which God has laid out. However, this basic understanding does not really fix the problems and really just brings to light more questions. We can see that we are saved by grace, but do we all get equal amounts of grace? Do we all have an equal opportunity to participate in a personalized plan of salvation from God? How much of the choice to submit to Him is free and do we all have an equal chance to do this? If chances aren’t equal, will God hold people accountable in different levels because they had different opportunity? And if then there is accountability, what is it that we must do to be saved? If we have to do something to be saved, are we really saved by grace? What does “saved by grace through faith” really mean, and what then is faith? The questions are just swirling through my mind and I hope that as time goes on I develop a better framework of understanding and find a way to make compatible a healthy seeking for the truth with a humble acknowledgement of the fact that I can’t really know all that much.
I appreciate the fact that you are going to the Bible to deal with the issues and recognizing that there are some things we don't have figured out quite yet.
Also, I agree with the on the importance of defining terms, and how when we say things we have to have a good understanding of what it is we are really saying.
I tried to go through some materials written about the Moral Influence, I just wondered how could it be possible for someone to go through the Scriptures and came out to have in conclusion that Christ came to influence us morally that we may live our life according to God’s will. Superficially there is nothing to say that Christ did in fact affect our lives. No one anywhere would deny that Jesus' life and death influenced us morally; I will not put it as the objective of His mission but an unavoidable consequence of it.
If Jesus' only mission was to show us how to live more moral lives, or even to show us how far love would go, there would have been no necessity for his death. It was just a stronger statement that way.
What the Moral Influence Theory leaves out is the whole Great Controversy, the charges against God, the reason that God had to let sin play out and his solution to the dilemma that the results of sin presented, the deceitfulness of our hearts, the bondage of sin Paul talked about, the all system of sacrificial services, sin as a present evil world, sin in its presence, sin in power to enslave, sin in its consequence. How could possibly mere influence be the mission of Christ on earth? In my opinion it was this larger context that required that Jesus suffer the consequences of sin to demonstrate the truth of God's diagnosis and the full nature of sin. I see no other way in which that could have been addressed that would not have left some crack of doubt about God and his government. Jesus' death was absolutely necessary for the whole problem of evil to be resolved. The Moral Influence Theory does not include that broad a scope and does not even intend to.
I always believe that the best way to undertake a successful study on the doctrine salvation, ( at least as far as human mind may reach) is to have a look at sin and to consider, what it does to us. Sin has a penalty which is eternal death, and which a mere moral influence cannot pay for; in other word there is no justification in morale influence theory. And we all know how justification is so crucial for sanctification, leave alone even glorification.
We can only see clearly in the Scriptures the model that God has used to save us, if consider what really the needs of humanity are: HAVING HIS WAGE PAID FOR, SAVING FROM THE POWER OF SIN AND TAKING OUT OF PRESENCE OF SIN, both outside and inside him.
I read an article from the BRI by Edward Heppenstall, who had been the department chair of Systematic Theology at the seminary in the 1950’s and 1960’s. The article was entitled, “How Perfect Is Perfect Or Is Christian Perfection Possible?”
The article focused on righteousness and perfection. I found it very interesting. After reading the article, the first thing I wanted to settle in my mind was the definition of righteousness. There are several passages that piece it together for me. Deut 12:8, 28 respectively state, “You shall not do at all what we are doing here today, every man doing whatever is right in his own eyes” and “Be careful to listen to all these words which I command you, so that it may be well with you and your sons after you forever, for you will be doing what is good and right in the sight of the LORD your God.” This passage clearly states that it is safe to do what God says are right and not what man thinks is right. Isaiah adds another dimension of righteousness. “And all our righteousness are as filthy rags (64:6). It seems that despite doing what is right, it does not help make man right in the sight of God.
Mankind is in a dilemma. We are only to do what God says is right (Deut 12:28), yet the “righteous” things that we do bring nothing, but filth (Is 64:6). Praise God for the light we've been given in the NT.
Notice Paul’s words to the church at Philippi. “I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.” He makes it clear that our only way of attaining righteousness comes as enter in a faith-based relationship with Christ, accepting His righteousness.
Paul also stated in his letter to the Romans that Abraham entered into this relationship even when he was uncircumcised. He did not have the light of the New Testament, yet “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” (Rom 4:3; Gen 15:6). Later in the same chapter, Paul gives specific detailed about how Abraham received the righteousness that only God can give. “Being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform. Therefore IT WAS ALSO CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS (ROM 4:21, 22). Have we not also been given exceeding, great and precious promises? And how do I respond to these? How do you respond? This is where the rubber meets the road. This is where true Christianity is revealed, bearing fruit to the glory of God.
I found this article to line up beautifully with the Romans chapter 4. The word of God absolutely thrills my soul. Praise is to God! I, like Paul, rejoice because “I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day.”
Thank you for your article. I see that you have been contemplating the issue over many days. Your question 'If there is accountability issue what is it then that we must do to be saved?' is drawn from the fundamental Christian belief since 'reformation'. This is the very question with which people are wrestling because we all know that work has its due role in salvation. However, we need to be careful to answer to such a question because, our answer would be poor when a question rises with work as essential part of earning salvation.
Probably, in Adam/in Christ concept in regards of salvation is most delicate issue which we should take. Many Christians that I have seen seem to have taken ‘we are all sinners in Adam but we are all saved in Christ’ for granted. They say this without thinking deeply. The more I think about this, the more I feel that I am falling into deep hole. In my last article, I raised a question saying, ‘aren’t we supposed to be righteous simultaneously when Jesus died on the Cross as we became sinners when Adam sinned?’ That gave me a big challenge in which I want to find an answer. In the conclusion of the last article I used an analogue of secular legal system where it says that you need to appeal in order to take an advantage that your government offers for free. Even if there is benefit available, if you don’t take it, you don’t get anything. Likewise, salvation is available for you through Jesus’ righteous act, but if you do not take it, you get nothing from it. If my reasoning is biblical, I would like to look at in Adam/in Christ concept in a similar way.
In ‘Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs’ by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, he argues that we are all sinners in Adam and we are saved in Christ. He says that thinking all human existence was already in Adam biologically is absurd and makes it even harder to grasp how Adams’ sin is our sin. Thus we need to understand this with theologically perspective too. We are born as human whether you like it or not. And our first parents fell into sin and you and I, once again whether you like it or not, are responsible in the ground of solidarity. But it is not like God puts sin in us as soon as we are born. The author says that ‘Romans 5:12-21 does not teach that Adam's sin was imputed to us. On the contrary the passage makes Adam responsible for his own sin’. Solidarity has to say to us more. We are creatures of God and we can’t complain why we are descendants of Adam. If we see this ultimate human state as very unique and important for revealing God’s loving character in the motif of great controversy, we could understand little better.
I want to add this. I certainly do not believe that there is only theological reason why we became sinner in Adam. Adam’s perfect physical, mental, and psychological state became degraded and its biological impact was on influence because we are his descendents.
On the other side, we have another motif ‘in Christ’. In Christ we are saved, regarded as righteous men. This obviously does not have to do with biological change. This has to do with theological concept or spiritual work.
Maybe in my next article, I will talk more about how these motifs work in overarching concept of salvation.
Probably, in Adam/in Christ concept in regards of salvation is most delicate issue which we should take. Many Christians that I have seen seem to have taken ‘we are all sinners in Adam but we are all saved in Christ’ for granted. They say this without thinking deeply. The more I think about this, the more I feel that I am falling into deep hole. In my last article, I raised a question saying, ‘aren’t we supposed to be righteous simultaneously when Jesus died on the Cross as we became sinners when Adam sinned?’ That gave me a big challenge in which I want to find an answer. In the conclusion of the last article I used an analogue of secular legal system where it says that you need to appeal in order to take an advantage that your government offers for free. Even if there is benefit available, if you don’t take it, you don’t get anything. Likewise, salvation is available for you through Jesus’ righteous act, but if you do not take it, you get nothing from it. If my reasoning is biblical, I would like to look at in Adam/in Christ concept in a similar way.
In ‘Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs’ by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, he argues that we are all sinners in Adam and we are saved in Christ. He says that thinking all human existence was already in Adam biologically is absurd and makes it even harder to grasp how Adams’ sin is our sin. Thus we need to understand this with theologically perspective too. We are born as human whether you like it or not. And our first parents fell into sin and you and I, once again whether you like it or not, are responsible in the ground of solidarity. But it is not like God puts sin in us as soon as we are born. The author says that ‘Romans 5:12-21 does not teach that Adam's sin was imputed to us. On the contrary the passage makes Adam responsible for his own sin’. Solidarity has to say to us more. We are creatures of God and we can’t complain why we are descendants of Adam. If we see this ultimate human state as very unique and important for revealing God’s loving character in the motif of great controversy, we could understand little better.
I want to add this. I certainly do not believe that there is only theological reason why we became sinner in Adam. Adam’s perfect physical, mental, and psychological state became degraded and its biological impact was on influence because we are his descendents.
On the other side, we have another motif ‘in Christ’. In Christ we are saved, regarded as righteous men. This obviously does not have to do with biological change. This has to do with theological concept or spiritual work.
Maybe in my next article, I will talk more about how these motifs work in overarching concept of salvation.
I agree with you my friend. I do not believe in original sin. Yet, i had always thought that we had inherit Adams sin. I found out later that this was wrong. What we inherit is the tendency, and the corruption. Anyhow, good job
Assignment #5 I read “Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, his comments on the matter helped me to understand a little more what is our perspective on the subject of Adam and Christ of Romans 5. This subject can be confusing if you want it to be. It took me a long time to understand it, as a teenager I had no idea what we believed as a church. By studying the subject and talking about it I was able to understand it. If this topic is not addressed correctly it can lead to some serious problems. Just how the 1888 Study Committee seemed to have problems to understand this concept. Which according to what Angel Manuel Rodriguez shares they were confused and their two theories on Adam in relation to the humans contradict each other. The first one is that everybody is in Adam as a trans-physical. In what sense does this happens? We don’t know, its not explained. The second one is the “imputation” of Adam’s sin. “According to this view, it was Adam who sinned but because of the solidarity between Adam and his descendants his sin was imputed to all of them. Because his sin was imputed to all of us we inherit corruption.” The problem like Rodriguez said is that they contradict each other which is true. His logic makes a lot of sense: “If we were in Adam when he sinned, his sin is our sin, we sinned in him. Hence there is no need to impute it to us because it is actually our sin.” Then Rodriguez starts talking about the problem when we say we are “in Christ” the wrong interpretation that is given to it. If we were actually in Christ when He died, then we died for ourselves and not Christ for us. We are taking Jesus substitution! I like his last words: “It is necessary to return to the biblical understanding of those important expressions in order to avoid potential heresies. If that is done the concept of a universal legal justification would be found to lack biblical support.” Now changing to chapter 5 of Romans is amazing to see that “problems” actually work for the good of your Salvation, so when running into problems, rejoice! It sound weird, but that’s what the Bible says! (verse 3 and 4) It was a blessing to study that chapter, to know that we have been restored into a friendship with God through Jesus Christ it’s a joy. I can call God my friend thanks to Jesus. Now even though Jesus was divine, He was also a descendant of David and Abraham. The human side where He can understand us is there. Jesus was unique, “Divine” and “human” at the same time. Anyhow verses 18 and 19 can get a little complicated, I will wait for the class to comment on these, there is much to discuss. But something is clear: “that Paul did not know anything about a legal universal justification according to which every human being was simultaneously present in Christ at the moment he died on the cross.”
Assignment #5 I read “Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, his comments on the matter helped me to understand a little more what is our perspective on the subject of Adam and Christ of Romans 5. This subject can be confusing if you want it to be. It took me a long time to understand it, as a teenager I had no idea what we believed as a church. By studying the subject and talking about it I was able to understand it. If this topic is not addressed correctly it can lead to some serious problems. Just how the 1888 Study Committee seemed to have problems to understand this concept. Which according to what Angel Manuel Rodriguez shares they were confused and their two theories on Adam in relation to the humans contradict each other. The first one is that everybody is in Adam as a trans-physical. In what sense does this happens? We don’t know, its not explained. The second one is the “imputation” of Adam’s sin. “According to this view, it was Adam who sinned but because of the solidarity between Adam and his descendants his sin was imputed to all of them. Because his sin was imputed to all of us we inherit corruption.” The problem like Rodriguez said is that they contradict each other which is true. His logic makes a lot of sense: “If we were in Adam when he sinned, his sin is our sin, we sinned in him. Hence there is no need to impute it to us because it is actually our sin.” Then Rodriguez starts talking about the problem when we say we are “in Christ” the wrong interpretation that is given to it. If we were actually in Christ when He died, then we died for ourselves and not Christ for us. We are taking Jesus substitution! I like his last words: “It is necessary to return to the biblical understanding of those important expressions in order to avoid potential heresies. If that is done the concept of a universal legal justification would be found to lack biblical support.” Now changing to chapter 5 of Romans is amazing to see that “problems” actually work for the good of your Salvation, so when running into problems, rejoice! It sound weird, but that’s what the Bible says! (verse 3 and 4) It was a blessing to study that chapter, to know that we have been restored into a friendship with God through Jesus Christ it’s a joy. I can call God my friend thanks to Jesus. Now even though Jesus was divine, He was also a descendant of David and Abraham. The human side where He can understand us is there. Jesus was unique, “Divine” and “human” at the same time. Anyhow verses 18 and 19 can get a little complicated, I will wait for the class to comment on these, there is much to discuss. But something is clear: “that Paul did not know anything about a legal universal justification according to which every human being was simultaneously present in Christ at the moment he died on the cross.”
A few years ago, I had a friend (or, more accurately, a friend-of-a-friend) who had some major problems with sin. Of course, we all do—or at least, those of us who will admit it. But this young man suffered from a major problem with sin because of a faulty theological foundation.
The actual behavior in question is not really significant. It will suffice to say that it was an obvious sin problem, under the jurisdiction of civil law, which eventually snowballed into a short stint in jail and the loss of his marriage.
But every time my friend would sin, he would wonder, “Why does God allow me to do this? I want to stop… why do I keep doing it? Why doesn’t God just prevent me from doing it” He was still a relatively new Christian and still was not very well grounded in his faith. He became upset at God over this problem and didn’t understand why God would allow this to happen.
I myself have asked similar questions and lamented, with Paul, that “I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing” (Rom. 7:19, TNIV). However, I have always recognized that the things I do are my own choice. I can wonder about why I do things, but I can never blame anyone else for the choices I make.
My friend might have benefited from considering the topic that Whidden addresses in ch. 6 of Ellen White on Salvation. Ellen White points out that we can strive toward obedience and character perfection, but we always have sin dwelling within us, which we have inherited from every one of our ancestors, all the way back to Adam. This capital “S” Sin is referred to by her as inherited sinful “propensities,” “inclinations,” and “tendencies,” (Qtd. in Whidden, 41). She says, “We must remember that our hearts are naturally depraved and we are unable of ourselves to pursue a right course” (IHP 163). Whidden says, “In the thought of Ellen White we humans come into the world as tragically damaged goods, not simply unfortunate babes into the woods who suffer lapses of memory and numerous little mistakes. We are seriously depraved and corrupted!” (42).
This depravity, while not overriding our free will or rendering us incapable of even accepting God’s free grace, does war against our Spirit-given desire to live lives of obedience. Unfortunately, this warring that takes place inside us does not go away short of our final glorification when Jesus returns for the redeemed.
What Whidden notes on p. 44 is especially poignant: “Human ‘corruption’ and depravity always leave the stench of ‘earthly odor’ on even the best that believers can produce. This stench makes their works meritoriously unacceptable.” In other words, even the good things that we think we do are actually saturated in selfishness. While this might lead us to despair, we must recognize that Christ’s “untainted” nature saves us not only from our “sins,” but also from our “Sin.” We can have nothing to take pride in of ourselves. Christ must be our all.
I read Chapter 4 of Whidden this week. I really enjoy this book. The chapter is entitled “Salvation, the Great Controversy Theme, Closing Events, and the Law.” In it, Whidden made a brief overview of Ellen White’s theology in areas related to salvation in order to point out how her doctrine of salvation related to other doctrines.
One thing I appreciated is that, in view of her eschatology, she sees salvation as an urgent matter. That is something that we as Adventists can really get behind. God is coming soon so don’t delay!
I have always had trouble with the statements he quoted from the Great Controversy about standing before the Holy God w/o a mediator and having to have the perfected character of Christ in order to stand. It has been used by people I strongly disagree with to imply that we need to be sinless in the last days and that we will stand on our merit instead of grace. I like that she said in one of her statements that those people will have to have spotless robes that are sprinkled with the blood of sacrifice. It is God and not us that will accomplish what needs to be accomplished. All we have ever had to do is look to Jesus.
Outside of class, I’ve also been reading Steps to Christ. There is a statement there that struck me. She says that Jesus came to restore the image of the father, not as an angry God who wants to punish us, but as a loving God who is trying to save us. That makes a lot of sense within the Great Controversy theme mentioned in this chapter. The Enemy is trying to make God out to be of a different character that the reality. Jesus comes to show us that God is love and correct the misconceptions of the Father that are so prevalent. But sadly those images still persist. People still talk about God the father having to have his wrath appeased by the death of his son. That’s not a good father, even by earthly standards.
One of the things I love about Adventism and that was brought out in this chapter is that the law remains important. The law is a revelation of God, and if it were not important, Jesus would not have had to die. The Great Controversy theme is beautiful in that it brings out the importance of the law without compromising Grace.
I appreciate your perspective. It is all about what Christ does in us. I have to say, though, that in my reading that is in the OT as well as the NT. In fact, I would say that the apostle Paul got it from the OT and preached it from the OT. That's a minor point, though, compared with the overall message of your post. It's all about Jesus! Thanks.
Doctrine of Salvation Reflection assignment 4 Sept. 27, 2010 Michael Liu Reflection from reading the essay The Dynamics of Salvation from BRI. The passage mention the message of third angel’s message centers in justification by faith. So what is it? In reading of the context of the Evangelism I can find more detail of its meaning. The message which was to focus our eyes on the uplifted Saviour. In the message the efficacy of the blood of Christ was to be presented with freshness and power, that the hearer’s faith might lay hold upon its merits. The proclamation of this third angel’s message must be attended with the outpouring of His Spirit in a large measure which becomes an abiding influence. The result is made manifest in obedience to all commandments of God. Through divine transforming process accompanied by sincere repentance and the true devotion, the original propensities to sin in the heart with all their strength can be broken. Ev. 190,192 His gracious activity which save us at the same time vindicate His character and law. In the act of Christ in dying for salvation of man in the same time it would justify God and His Son in their dealing with the rebellion of Satan before all the universe. It would establish the perpetuity of the law of God and would reveal the nature and the results of sin. {PP 68.2} Sin is not a light thing, and God does not lightly pass over it, God meets the demands of a broken law. God is just and justifier of him who believes in Jesus only through the cross. Phil.2:8 (TDS) He established the law’s justice demand in our behalf. We need to proclaim the Third angel’s message in the context of the final events of earth’s history and of Christ’s ministry in heaven. (TDS p.2) The ministry of Christ in heaven has to do with making His sacrifice effective in human race by asking the Holy Spirit to be sent out to the world. It is the Holy Spirit that prompted the will of men and women so we can to respond to the good news. So the passage said in this way the ministry of Jesus is perpetuated. (TDS) ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬_____________________________________________________________________ Response to Wazoua Serge Roger on Moral Influence theory Moral Influence has it point in transform people’s life in a powerful way as we behold the love of Christ, we become changed in a divine assigned way. This only deal with the sanctification part. The problem of this theory lies on using part of the Bible teaching and missing the part talking about legal justification which is the root of our salvation. Greater still if we are to look at the salvation in the great controversy view that make the whole things about suffering and the character of God in a more meaningful way.
“This message was to bring more prominently before the world the uplifted Saviour, the sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. It presented justification through faith in the Surety; it invited the people to receive the righteousness of Christ, which is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. Many had lost sight of Jesus. They needed to have their eyes directed to His divine person, His merits, and His changeless love for the human family. All power is given into His hands, that He may dispense rich gifts unto men, imparting the priceless gift of His own righteousness to the helpless human agent. This is the message that God commanded to be given to the world. It is the third angel's message, which is to be proclaimed with a loud voice, and attended with the outpouring of His Spirit in a large measure…The efficacy of the blood of Christ was to be presented to the people with freshness and power, that their faith might lay hold upon its merits.” Ev. 190 “When the third angel's message is preached as it should be, power attends its proclamation, and it becomes an abiding influence. It must be attended with divine power, or it will accomplish nothing. “ Ev. 192
Doctrine of Salvation Reflection assignment 4 Sept. 27, 2010 Michael Liu Reflection from reading the essay The Dynamics of Salvation from BRI. The passage mention the message of third angel’s message centers in justification by faith. So what is it? In reading of the context of the Evangelism I can find more detail of its meaning. The message which was to focus our eyes on the uplifted Saviour. In the message the efficacy of the blood of Christ was to be presented with freshness and power, that the hearer’s faith might lay hold upon its merits. The proclamation of this third angel’s message must be attended with the outpouring of His Spirit in a large measure which becomes an abiding influence. The result is made manifest in obedience to all commandments of God. Through divine transforming process accompanied by sincere repentance and the true devotion, the original propensities to sin in the heart with all their strength can be broken. Ev. 190,192 His gracious activity which save us at the same time vindicate His character and law. In the act of Christ in dying for salvation of man in the same time it would justify God and His Son in their dealing with the rebellion of Satan before all the universe. It would establish the perpetuity of the law of God and would reveal the nature and the results of sin. {PP 68.2} Sin is not a light thing, and God does not lightly pass over it, God meets the demands of a broken law. God is just and justifier of him who believes in Jesus only through the cross. Phil.2:8 (TDS) He established the law’s justice demand in our behalf. We need to proclaim the Third angel’s message in the context of the final events of earth’s history and of Christ’s ministry in heaven. (TDS p.2) The ministry of Christ in heaven has to do with making His sacrifice effective in human race by asking the Holy Spirit to be sent out to the world. It is the Holy Spirit that prompted the will of men and women so we can to respond to the good news. So the passage said in this way the ministry of Jesus is perpetuated. (TDS) ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬_____________________________________________________________________ Reflection on Wazoua Serge Roger on Moral Influence theory Moral Influence has it point in transform people’s life in a powerful way as we behold the love of Christ, we become changed in a divine assigned way. This only deal with the sanctification part. The problem of this theory lies on using part of the Bible teaching and missing the part talking about legal justification which is the root of our salvation. Greater still if we are to look at the salvation in the great controversy view that make the whole things about suffering and the character of God in a more meaningful way.
“This message was to bring more prominently before the world the uplifted Saviour, the sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. It presented justification through faith in the Surety; it invited the people to receive the righteousness of Christ, which is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. Many had lost sight of Jesus. They needed to have their eyes directed to His divine person, His merits, and His changeless love for the human family. All power is given into His hands, that He may dispense rich gifts unto men, imparting the priceless gift of His own righteousness to the helpless human agent. This is the message that God commanded to be given to the world. It is the third angel's message, which is to be proclaimed with a loud voice, and attended with the outpouring of His Spirit in a large measure…The efficacy of the blood of Christ was to be presented to the people with freshness and power, that their faith might lay hold upon its merits.” Ev. 190 “When the third angel's message is preached as it should be, power attends its proclamation, and it becomes an abiding influence. It must be attended with divine power, or it will accomplish nothing. “ Ev. 192
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In reading chapter two of Whidden’s book Ellen White on Salvation, I found it interesting that the perfectionist “holiness” fanatics had such an influence to shape Ellen White’s teaching on salvation and sanctification.
When I was doing my undergraduate degree at Walla Walla University, I worked with a pastor in one of the local churches who had had a run in with an Adventist brother who claimed to have achieved perfection. One Sabbath in an adult Sabbath School class, this man said, “Do you believe in perfection, pastor?”
“Yes, I believe in what we call Christian perfection.”
“Well I haven’t sinned for five years. What do you think about that?”
“All I know,” the pastor replied, “is that the Bible says that he who claims to be without sin is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”
The man made some kind of scowl and didn’t say much else for the remainder of the class.
Sometimes people who become confused on the issue of complete perfection may be more or less harmless. I suspect that more often, though, such claims ultimately lead to fanatical perversions of Christianity. One couple at one of the churches where I interned had a number of years before been involved with an offshoot-group-turned-cult. The leader, a former Adventist pastor, had claimed that through a special process a person would become completely sinless and one of the 144,000. From that point on, the person could not sin. Unfortunately, the leader, who later declared himself to be the messiah, led people into all kinds of debauchery under the pretense that since they had been perfected, these actions were not sin.
This seems to me to be nearly identical to the fanaticism that Ellen White faced early on in her ministry at the Indiana campmeeting. Much of this early holiness fanaticism, if I remember correctly, dealt with declaring a person to be completely sinless, and then engaging in debauchery since such sinful desires could not possibly actually be sin.
What is important for us to remember is that as we come closer and closer to God in sanctification, we see more and more from his holy perspective instead of our own sinful one. Our sin then becomes more clear and repulsive. Thus, in opposition to what seems to be experienced by perfectionist fanatics, sanctification will result in the awareness of more sin, not less. This is not to say that as we come closer to God we must feel worse and worse about ourselves. But whenever I find myself equivocating or downplaying the significance of some temptation or sinful habit in my life, I take it as a warning sign. Sin does not seem as repulsive as it once did, something must be wrong!
It would have been nice if Whidden had described more clearly the fanaticism Ellen White faced and just how her work combatting it shaped her future discussion of sanctification and holiness. It seemed to me that he merely noted that it did shape her discussion, without telling us how it shaped her discussion.
Arthur Jennings
Doctrine of Salvation
Martin Hanna, Ph.D.
August 29, 2010
Reflection Paper/Assignment1
The course and main topic of class is salvation. So what is salvation? It is topic that must be examined through many different aspects. In class I learned that salvation is not what I/we can do to be saved but instead; it is what God has already done that I/we might be saved. Ellen White’s early ministry was a reflection for the case of salvation. She sought forgiveness for her sins but after hearing one William Miller’s lectures she felt unworthy to be called a child of God. Ellen felt she would be lost if Christ came back and caught her in her current state.
I, myself have felt that way many times and have carried the burden with me as a Christian when I drifted away from Christ. I began to ask this question all over again- What must I do to be saved? It is easily to forget that salvation is the work of God and not the work of man. Ellen was terrified of the thought that she might die and be eternally lost until she learned she had been depending on herself for sanctification as most of us do. After Ellen was baptized she heard Miller’s second lecture and felt a lack of holiness that she would need to be saved. It appears that Ellen White was no different than myself and any other Christians on her thoughts and feelings concerning salvation.
Ellen was waiting on her ‘perfection’ to take place because it was taught by the Methodist Church that sanctification followed forgiveness and justification which was to come instantaneously and be confirmed by the Spirit’s witness. She believed it was happening for other members but she later realized that they were hypocrites. I too felt that I should be perfect when I came from the watery grave of baptism but it did not take long to realize that my thoughts and actions had not changed much if any at all.
Ellen would realize as I/we all do that sanctification is not a work of a moment but that of a lifetime also; perfection is not asserted or achieved by human being as sinless triumphs but sought after through the growing in Christ, faith in the Blood of Lamb at Calvary and the returning of the Resurrected Lord cleansing us of sinfulness at Glorification. This is salvation at work through and by the Holy Spirit, father and Jesus Christ.
How do we obtain this knowledge? By reading and studying our bibles. It is by the ‘Gospel of Jesus Christ’ that all mankind might gain knowledge concerning the salvation of God through Jesus Christ which is known as the Gospel. . As in class, I/we learned that the Gospel is God’s power to save. Salvation is the action of the tri-une God of heaven. It is the bidding of the Father, work of the Holy Spirit and is centered in the ‘Cross of Christ-the incarnation and resurrection of Christ’.
I/we should study as Paul studied the Old Testament because the gospel is the good news about Christ. Paul says “For I am not ashamed of this Good News about Christ. It is the power of God at work, saving everyone who believes-Jews first and also Gentiles. This Good News tells us how God makes right in His sight. It is only through God/Trinity that salvation is possible (start to finish faith in God) and not through the work or proclivity of any man. It is the Obedience of Faith we live by because faith and obedience go hand and hand.
Arthur Jennings
Doctrine of Salvation
Martin Hanna, Ph.D.
August 29, 2010
Response to Ryan Kilgore Assignment 1
Ryan these are both interesting stories, the first story caught my attention because I too have experienced a similar situation between a pastor and a visitor. Unfortunately the misunderstanding concerning perfection from the man was met with hurtful though true words from the pastor. Ellen White was confused by William Miller’s lecture too concerning holiness and perfection but she later learned perfection was not to be claimed but rather sought after as a way of life (chapter 1). Maybe the pastor should have taken a different approach by talking with the man in private or explaining in laymen terms how the bible interprets and explains this sensitive topic.
On the second story, Please do not get me started on the stories I have heard concerning the 144,000. This type fanaticism in our own church has caused many members to leave and join many other so-called non-denomination churches. There is not clear understanding even among pastors about the 144,000 which is why this situation occurred. I agree that as we come closer to God we view ourselves from His perspective; in addition; I would like to add that God Perspective comes from a place of love which creates in us a new heart and a right spirit. We should learn from these two stories to be prepared to explain, teach (topics of perfection and justification by faith) and minister in the love of Christ to all who Christ places in front of us.
Response to Ryan
I appreciated what Ryan said about the dangers of fanaticism, and how people tend to see themselves as perfect as they think they are progressing in sanctification. But so true that when people really move forward to being more Christ-like they see more and more from His perspective and should become ruthlessly humbled with their human-sinful(not sinless)ness.
Assignment 1
Reading Whidden made me think of Alden Thompson’s book, Escape from the Flames, which deals with Ellen White’s developing view of God and how He had at first seemed to her a vindictive being bent on damning unworthies, but as life progressed and her understanding of God’s love developed she eventually saw Him as the Savior pictured in Steps to Christ and The Desire of Ages.
I had previously not known about the influence of the Methodist holiness movement and it made me wonder if Phoebe Palmer may have been a significant role model for the young Ellen.
Ellen’s sense of unworthiness jumped out in her experience at the Buxton camp meeting and expression of a desire for death, which she “coveted,” and how possibly suicidal emotions (though this is purely conjectural!) and religious fears plagued Ellen and how “human” this shows her to be, showing her experience as someone ministering next to us rather than somehow above us.
I wished there had been more about the Buxton camp meeting since it seemed to be such a turning point in Ellen’s religious experience and how the emotions she felt there seemed to finally make her feel acceptable to be baptized. This intrigued me because it seemed that she felt she had to be “good enough” to admit that she was not good enough and needed Jesus’ blood to cover her shortcomings. It made me think about the experience of many people today who feel they have to reach some sort of spiritual peak to come to church, get baptized or serve. This idea of worthiness causes some to not partake of communion since the Bible says we should not partake of it “unworthily,” though this pertains to method, not the state of our hearts.
I feel that this sense of “worthiness” or “unworthiness” is at the root of most of our misunderstandings about salvation. We feel we have to be good enough to accept God’s free gift. Unfortunately, in reaction to this past attitude many people have moved to a form of cheap grace that leads to passively “accepting the gift of grace” and sitting back in a recliner. Grace frees us from feeling that we can earn our salvation, but the One who has offered Himself freely on our behalf calls us to follow Him in reaching out to the hurt and lost of the world.
I see grace as similar to being told that free tickets are being offered to a concert by a school’s student association (for which someone Else paid the dues). The tickets are available at the student center for any who would like them, there is no limit. However, you must get the ticket yourself (no one can pick it up for you) and get it before the concert as there will be no more tickets available at the event. All you must do is actively go get the ticket that has already been paid for (you did nothing to earn it!) – but sitting back in your recliner and expecting a ticket to be waiting for you when you arrive will leave you sadly disappointed.
Response to Arthur Jennings, Assignment 1
Arthur,
Very good comments and reflection on salvation and how it was experienced by Ellen White. You noted that it is by reading and studying our Bibles that we obtain the knowledge of salvation. This is the gospel. As I read your comments I was reminded of one of my favorite Bible texts, 2 Cor 3:18, “And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever–increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit” (TNIV). It is by beholding God’s character that we are transformed. This character of love is seen most distinctly in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Let us be drawn to him, growing every day to be more like him.
In response to Ryan Kilgore comment about the sinless perfection perspective, I will begin by sharing my personal life experience. In the high school, I joined a Christian group called “Christian Union”. The central theme of this group is “christian perfection!” “…ye shall be holy for I am holy… Lev 11:44; “Be ye perfect as your heavenly father is perfect…Matt 5:48” the SU as it is fondly called became the dominant Christian fellowship recognized in so many schools including institutions of high learning. While I became part of this group, I realized that there was a strict dressing code, members became bonded to themselves “Friendship with the world is enmity with God” so, there was the distinction between those who are supposedly of the “world” and not. Personally I felt that my commitment, and dedication to this way of living has earned me an automatic access to salvation. Reasons being that we “SU’s sees ourselves as practicing the holiness of God as such we have attained the level of perfection that the bible talked about. This is true of our identifying mark as we share testimonies of when we became “saved” with actual dates, events, and time. Little by little I came to realize that sanctification is not “once saved always saved” but a daily process. The question is can we claim that we have been saved? That is where justification comes in, absolutely! We do not do anything to merit our salvation. This is a gift bestowed on us, since we now have this gift it is made appropriated unto us. We live, not because there is life in us but because we found life in Christ. Now it became clearer to me that, it’s not in the dressing codes, segregation, “ religious profiling, those saved or not” not in anything I can do, but only through the merit of Christ Jesus. A quote from Ryan's comment “we come closer and closer to God in sanctification, we see more and more from his holy perspective instead of our sinful one” this sounds more like the SU ideology to me. it brings back the feeling of effort, works, profiling, that once I was practicing in my former christian group. I would rather that as I spend time in the presence of God that is already made available for me, I have realized a genuine transformation of character, and the dividend of such time is the fruit of perfection in me.
Michael Anyim
Reflection Paper/ Response #4
Doctrine of Salvation
Dr. Martin Hanna
In response to Ryan Kilgore comment about the sinless perfection perspective, I will begin by sharing my personal life experience. In the high school, I joined a Christian group called “Christian Union”. The central theme of this group is “christian perfection!” “…ye shall be holy for I am holy… Lev 11:44; “Be ye perfect as your heavenly father is perfect…Matt 5:48” the SU as it is fondly called became the dominant Christian fellowship recognized in so many schools including institutions of high learning. While I became part of this group, I realized that there was a strict dressing code, members became bonded to themselves “Friendship with the world is enmity with God” so, there was the distinction between those who are supposedly of the “world” and not. Personally I felt that my commitment, and dedication to this way of living has earned me an automatic access to salvation. Reasons being that we “SU’s sees ourselves as practicing the holiness of God as such we have attained the level of perfection that the bible talked about. This is true of our identifying mark as we share testimonies of when we became “saved” with actual dates, events, and time. Little by little I came to realize that sanctification is not “once saved always saved” but a daily process. The question is can we claim that we have been saved? That is where justification comes in, absolutely! We do not do anything to merit our salvation. This is a gift bestowed on us, since we now have this gift it is made appropriated unto us. We live, not because there is life in us but because we found life in Christ. Now it became clearer to me that, it’s not in the dressing codes, segregation, “ religious profiling, those saved or not” not in anything I can do, but only through the merit of Christ Jesus. A quote from Ryan's comment “we come closer and closer to God in sanctification, we see more and more from his holy perspective instead of our sinful one” this sounds more like the SU ideology to me. it brings back the feeling of effort, works, profiling, that once I was practicing in my former christian group. I would rather that as I spend time in the presence of God that is already made available for me, I have realized a genuine transformation of character, and the dividend of such time is the fruit of perfection in me.
Michael C. Mickens
Doctrine of Salvation – 1
Paul’s letter to the Roman Christians is very telling of his burden and concern for them. But it also expresses Paul’s burden and concern for a proper understanding of the Gospel in light of the Hebrew Scriptures and the recent act of Calvary. Paul’s gospel is Christ centered and salvation oriented. His message cuts directly against the culture of his day and the prevailing views about God held by both the Jews and the Greeks. Of particular significance to Paul in his letter is the importance of faith. Apparently his readers did not understand “the true nature of faith” and were in danger of taking God’s grace for granted. Paul seeks to re-orient the understanding of his fellow believers in Rome toward a Christ-centered, faith oriented understanding of God. I was personally intrigued by Paul’s emphasis on the Gospel. Paul appears to be very intentional about presenting the Gospel as a divine message from God the Father. According to Paul the Gospel is from God through His servants the Prophets and the Holy Scriptures (Rom. 1:1-2). Paul is also very clear about the content of this Gospel, which he boldly proclaims as the promise concerning God’s Son Jesus Christ (2-3). Paul wants his audience to know that the Gospel which he has been set apart to preach is all about Jesus (3-4). This is important for Paul for several reasons. First, Paul hopes to establish the divine origin of his message (1-2). Secondly, Paul intends to establish the divine nature of his message (3-4). Thirdly, Paul desires to establish the divine purpose of his message (5-6)), Fourthly, Paul wants to establish the divine mandate of his message (14-15) and Finally, Paul whishes to convey the divine goal of his message (16-17). Paul wants the Roman Christians to know that his gospel message comes from God, is about God’s Son Jesus Christ, is intended to produce faithful obedience among all the nations, to the Greeks and the Non-Greeks, to the wise and the foolish, to the Jews and to the Gentiles, to all of God’s children in Rome Paul declares the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is the power of God leading to salvation for all those who believe. Through his gospel message, Paul declares that the righteousness of God is revealed (vs. 17).
Reed Richardi
Assignment # 1
Reflection on class discussion about Christ's nature and Romans 1.
I see in the nature of Christ a model of what God wants to do in us. Christ "was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead" (Rom 1:3-4). Christ was a perfect blend of the divine and human. The struggle we have with sin is not just from what we do but from who we are. Our problem is much deeper and more personal than simply our actions. This is why Jesus said that we must be born again. Our natural selves, our flesh "is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be". Like a dolphin with no hope of flying because of its nature, we have no hope of overcoming sins in our sinful nature.
"Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.'" (John 3:5-6).
Furthermore we have no hope of changing our nature on our own, flesh only gives birth to flesh, dolphins only give birth to dolphins, sinful natures only produce sinful actions. This struggle against our nature I see as being characterized in Romans 7, meeting its climax in verse 24, " O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?" We are our own problem and we need someone to save us from ourselves. We need a Savior outside of us to come into us, we need to be born of the Spirit, we must be born again. Almost beyond belief God has promised to give us, to be in us that new nature.
"His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2 Pet. 1:3-4)
Through the promises in God's word we can be partakers of the divine nature! We too are to be a blend of the human and divine, with Christ in us the hope of glory. As we abide in Christ, and He abides in us, God delivers us from ourselves and frees us to live by His Spirit. We become by the Spirit not just children of men but children of God (Rom. 8:14-16 and 1 John 3:1-2). It is this dynamic that makes the divine human nature of Christ so beautiful to me. Christ is a model of what God will do in us. The new heart that God promises to give us is His own. Like Christ we can become living temples of the Living God. This new nature, this divinity, is never our own, it is never ours to possess. Christ possessed divinity, and still does, we however have the privilege of opening ourselves up to the indwelling of that divinity, so that we can also be born of the Spirit. Praise the Lord for our Savior Jesus Christ!
Reed Richardi
Assignment# 1
I see in the nature of Christ a model of what God wants to do in us. Christ "was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead" (Rom 1:3-4). Christ was a perfect blend of the divine and human. The struggle we have with sin is not just from what we do but from who we are. Our problem is much deeper and more personal than simply our actions. This is why Jesus said that we must be born again. Our natural selves, our flesh "is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be". Like a dolphin with no hope of flying because of its nature, we have no hope of overcoming sins in our sinful nature.
"Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.'" (John 3:5-6).
Furthermore we have no hope of changing our nature on our own, flesh only gives birth to flesh, dolphins only give birth to dolphins, sinful natures only produce sinful actions. This struggle against our nature I see as being characterized in Romans 7, meeting its climax in verse 24, " O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?" We are our own problem and we need someone to save us from ourselves. We need a Savior outside of us to come into us, we need to be born of the Spirit, we must be born again. Almost beyond belief God has promised to give us, to be in us that new nature.
"His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2 Pet. 1:3-4)
Through the promises in God's word we can be partakers of the divine nature! We too are to be a blend of the human and divine, with Christ in us the hope of glory. As we abide in Christ, and He abides in us, God delivers us from ourselves and frees us to live by His Spirit. We become by the Spirit not just children of men but children of God (Rom. 8:14-16 and 1 John 3:1-2). It is this dynamic that makes the divine human nature of Christ so beautiful to me. Christ is a model of what God will do in us. The new heart that God promises to give us is His own. Like Christ we can become living temples of the Living God. This new nature, this divinity, is never our own, it is never ours to possess. Christ possessed divinity, and still does, we however have the privilege of opening ourselves up to the indwelling of that divinity, so that we can also be born of the Spirit. Praise the Lord for our Savior Jesus Christ!
Reed Richardi
Assignment # 1
I see in the nature of Christ a model of what God wants to do in us. Christ "was born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead" (Rom 1:3-4). Christ was a perfect blend of the divine and human. The struggle we have with sin is not just from what we do but from who we are. Our problem is much deeper and more personal than simply our actions. This is why Jesus said that we must be born again. Our natural selves, our flesh "is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be". Like a dolphin with no hope of flying because of its nature, we have no hope of overcoming sins in our sinful nature.
"Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.'" (John 3:5-6).
Furthermore we have no hope of changing our nature on our own, flesh only gives birth to flesh, dolphins only give birth to dolphins, sinful natures only produce sinful actions. This struggle against our nature I see as being characterized in Romans 7, meeting its climax in verse 24, " O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?" We are our own problem and we need someone to save us from ourselves. We need a Savior outside of us to come into us, we need to be born of the Spirit, we must be born again. Almost beyond belief God has promised to give us, to be in us that new nature.
"by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2 Pet. 1:4)
Through the promises in God's word we can be partakers of the divine nature! We too are to be a blend of the human and divine, with Christ in us the hope of glory. As we abide in Christ, and He abides in us, God delivers us from ourselves and frees us to live by His Spirit. We become by the Spirit not just children of men but children of God (Rom. 8:14-16 and 1 John 3:1-2). It is this dynamic that makes the divine human nature of Christ so beautiful to me. Christ is a model of what God will do in us. The new heart that God promises to give us is His own. Like Christ we can become living temples of the Living God. This new nature, this divinity, is never our own, it is never ours to possess. Christ possessed divinity, and still does, we however have the privilege of opening ourselves up to the indwelling of that divinity, so that we can also be born of the Spirit. Praise the Lord for our Savior Jesus Christ!
Reed Richardi
Response to Ryan Kilgore's Assignment # 1
I appreciated Ryan's comments. I agree greater Christ-likeness should lead a greater aversion to sin and greater humility. I believe that as we grow toward Christ-likeness we will have far less confidence in ourselves and far more confidence in Christ.
Romans 1:1-31 Aug 31, 2010 7:43 PM
,Romans chapter 1:1-31
Paul begins his letter with greetings to the Romans, who he has tried to visit many times but was hindered for many different reasons, towards the end of his greeting Paul tells the Romans that he is not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ for it, is the power of God at work, saving everyone who believes the Jew first and also the Gentile. I would like to expound on that statement for a minute. There is a great need for the gospel in its truth and beauty to be told as it is. Unfortunately I have witnessed too many times the gospel of God watered down to please or maybe just to present it in a lighter version so not to step on any toes. The gospel as Paul has declared to the Romans is the power of God. It in its own beauty, it possesses power to heal, transform, and even to save those who are under demonic attack. Many I believe have forgotten that the same devils that were possessing individuals in the days of Jesus did not go away and disappear from this planet, on the contrary the bible speaks different Matthew 12:22 says that he cast the devil out of the demon possessed man, but it does not say that he rid the devils from this planet. Also if you continue with the passage you would see what kind of position the poor man was in from being possessed by the demon (he was blind, nor could he speak and when Jesus rid him of the demons he was able to do both again). Further Mark 5:1-20 also speaks of a man possessed by demons, when Jesus spoke to the demon he told Jesus that there were many in the man (not just lone), and Jesus having mercy on the demons after they begged him not to cast them into the a distant place, cast them into a herd of pigs. My point is that the gospel as Paul has declared has not lost its power, it still holds the same transforming, healing power today as Paul believed it did in his day. Further my friends Paul also say’s that God is angry with those who do not present his gospel in its truth, those who suppress the truth of his word are considered wicked in the eyesight of God. Many have said that it is the responsibility of those to read and get the truth for them selves.
I do not dispute this fact for Paul further say’s that they will have no excuse, nor will they be able to blame anyone else but themselves for their negligence. Paul also say’s that while they are trying to make excuses there is none for the glory of God is all around us in plain sight, for the heavens, and earth declare the majestic glory of God. Through creation all around us you are able to see the majestic beauty, and glory of God. The trees in the fall how they turn to beautiful shade of color, the flowers that grow naturally of all beautiful shades and colors, just looking the clouds how they sit in the sky, Oh my dear friends I can go on and on! But the truth of the matter is that no one not one will have an excuse for their negligence of knowing God. So let us remember as Paul reminds us that there are consequences to every action, the Jewish nation a nation chosen by God and was protected by God. He walked with them and talked with them through prophets over and over again, begging them continually to turn from worshiping idols, things that possessed no power. But they rejected his counsel, rejected his authority, and rejected his love till eventually out of love because God is not one to force himself on anyone who is does not want to be apart of him, gave them exactly what they wanted and Paul say’s he abandoned them to do whatever they wanted to do. Because of the withdrawal of the spirit of God they no longer valued the purity, holiness, beauty, that God Spirit possesses instead they became children of Satan, possessed by demons. As a result their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip, and the list goes on. I conclude that people who possess such a character are not portraying the loving character that I know of God possessing instead, it is clear they exhibit traits of one who hates the character of God and chooses to reject everything that is good about him
I conclude that people who possess such a character are not portraying the loving character that I know of God possessing instead, it is clear they exhibit traits of one who hates the character of God and chooses to reject everything that is good about him. In conclusion Paul say’s that people who portray this time of character do not keep it all to themselves but instead they want to share it with others, so they teach other to do the same. In my opinion Paul is trying to get us all to understand that there is power in the word of God, there is no need to water down the gospel, for it reveals God’s power, merciful character, and his love for his children. Paul also is attempting to convey that there are consequences, when we reject the majestic authority of God, and the end results as were for the Jews is not one to be desired. Nancy J. Thomas
Response to AJ
I really enjoyed your personal reflection on the life of Ellen G. White as it relates to her salvations experience. I particularly appreciated the connection you made between Ellen G. White and other believers. I too have found myself feeling as you mentioned, feelings of hopelessness and despair. I have often found myself wondering if I was truly saved. However for me it was more in the since of acceptance rather than assurance. For me acceptance has always proceeded assurance. Although I've always been able to recognize the Gospels message of saving faith and assurance of salvation through Jesus Christ. I have often wondered whether or not I was accepted by God. Whether or not God was pleased with me. To me its quite one thing to know that the Bible says that we are saved it is quite another thing to know that we are saved. To know that we are accepted by the Father and that we are both loved by Him and pleasing to him. The bible tells us that God the Father was pleased with the Son prior to his sacrifice on Calvary (Mathew 3:17). This speaks volumes to me because it demonstrates that God was well pleased with who Jesus was (God's beloved Son) apart from what he did (Death on a Cross). I believe that if this is true of Jesus it is also true of us. As each one of us are the beloved children of God (Eph. 5:1; 1 John 3:2). Therefore, we can proclaim bodly with Paul, that we are not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth (Rom. 1:16)... not to those whom we preach, but to us who are preaching also.
Response to AJ
Brief Corrections
#1 In my beginning commment the word I intended to use was "Ellen G. White's salvation experience."
#2 In another comment I intended to say that "To truly know that we are saved, is to know that we are accepted by the Father and that we are both loved by Him and pleasing to him."
#3 In my final statement I intended to say "not only to those whom we preach but to us who are preaching also."
This blog needs editing capabilities... lol
Mike
@ Landon,
I really appreciated your comments and the way you linked up EGW's experiences in her day with some of the things that are (unfortunately) still happening today. I also thought of Alden Thompson as well! I'm curious to see where the text we are reading takes things.
The last part of your post brought up questions for me. I would like to gain a better understanding in this class of whether we need to actively seek God, or if we need only to respond to (not push away) his actively seeking us. Probably it's both, but I would like to have a better grasp on this issue.
Nick Clark
Doctrine of Salvation
Assignment #1
“I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.” (Romans 1:16)
This verse has been on my mind since our discussion in class last week. I love that Paul just comes out and says, “I am not ashamed”, he leaves no doubt as to whether or not he is completely sold out and committed to the gospel and the sharing of it. He has been changed by the gospel of Jesus Christ and as a result he cannot keep it to himself, he wants others to experience Christ the way he has experienced Christ.
I also am glad that I waited until now to write this reflection paper, because my class this morning, Revelation, Inspiration, and Hermeneutics, made me think a little bit more and a little differently about the subject. Dr. Canale was speaking about the power that is referred to here in Romans 1:16 and giving ideas as to what that power is. He explained that the power is the message of the gospel. Also the power is in the sharing of the gospel because the power cannot be felt if it is not spoken or revealed to you somehow. If this is the case it places a huge emphasis on witnessing, sharing the gospel with others. The gospel is “the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes” and no one can believe without being told. In other words others cannot be saved without us as Christians revealing the gospel, the story of Jesus Christ and His sacrifice, to them. If it is the “salvation to everyone who believes”, then for them to believe, we must believe. We have to be completely sold on the fact that not only does Jesus Christ have the power to save, but that we know it is true because Jesus Christ has saved us, we have personally experienced this power.
Often when we think of Christ saving us we look to the past, at least I fall into this sometimes; viewing it as something that I have experienced rather than something I am experiencing. Everyday as Christians we should be just as excited and in just as much awe about the fact that we are saved in Christ as we were the day He first called us. Salvation is something so beautiful, and it is beautiful because every day we can experience the power of the gospel in our own lives. We too, should be able to confirm daily that we are not ashamed of the gospel and that we are feeling it’s power daily. And because we are experiencing that power daily we can’t help but share it with others daily as well. I once was asked the question, “when was the last time you had a meaningful conversation with a stranger?” All to often my answer for that question is not what I want it to be; unfortunately the meaningful encounters with strangers don’t happen enough. And I define a meaningful interaction with a stranger as one where somehow I was able to share with them, even if in a small way, the gospel of Jesus Christ and that by my words and actions I was able to display that it does indeed have power to save.
I am thankful that we get to take a class a on salvation and discuss the beautiful plan of redemption, to see how God has not stopped at anything or held back anything to save us.
Response to Nancy James
I love how you have pointed out that we need not water down the gospel. I have been in the situation also where I want to share, but not offend and try to not come across to strong and as a result come up lacking.
I really like how you pointed out that the power of this message is just as powerful as it was in Paul's day. This is something that definitely should be remembered and that we should live as though we believe it. Thanks for reminding us.
Assignment 1
Young Suh
There are full of mysteries and hard-to-understands in the book of Romans in regards to salvation of God. Probably, debate over issues like Christ’s nature, process of salvation, Paul’s time of conversion in chapters 7 and 8 will never end before the second coming of the Lord. Among these difficult issues I want to talk about how Paul’s idea of salvation, ‘the righteous will live by faith’ in shown Romans 1 relates to the article, Ángel Manuel Rodríguez,- ‘Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White’, in terms of ‘salvation through one Man’. Human misery and suffering all come from one man’s disobedience which is regarded as SIN and from that time on no perfect communion with God has been possible so, humankind was doomed. But Jesus Christ who is one with God the Father decided to save us and he showed his love and salvation on the Cross. But here’s my point of this article. If a person can have salvation by faith in Jesus Christ, does it mean that Adam lost his privilege by losing faith in God? In other words, whole point of salvation from eternal death resulted by sin is about faith in God. To understand this deeper, let’s turn our eyes on the cross where Jesus died for all human. There Jesus showed us how he obeyed God and God’s commandments which is love in total faith in God. This is completely opposite scene of Adam’s disobedience in the garden of Eden. Adam showed us how he disobeyed God and abandoned faith in God.
‘We have reason for ceaseless gratitude to God that Christ, by His perfect obedience, has won back the heaven that Adam lost through disobedience. Adam sinned, and the children of Adam share his guilt and its consequences; but Jesus bore the guilt of Adam, and all the children of Adam that will flee to Christ, the second Adam, may escape the penalty of transgression. ‘
[FW 88.3]
Obedience to God and his commandments is inevitably related to having faith in God which is the subject of Great Controversy.
Assignment 1 Slavation
Rom 6:16, 18-20,23 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness…for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
I like to write. Many times when I write it is on Biblical themes. I am not a true typist but the world’s fastest 2 finger typist. Having this to my advantage it is always amusing to me that when I type the word salvation it many times is typed “slavatation”. I have to go back and correct it, because that is clearly not a word. As I have begun to reflect in Romans, I came across the above passage, where the word servants, or doulos, is used to describe all humanity. We are either doulos of sin or doulos of righteousness. I find it interesting that Paul calls us slaves of righteousness. To be saved is to be a slave of righteousness. A slave has no choice but to obey, not right but to obey, no power outside of submission to his master. His identity is based in submission to one more powerful than him. Sin or righteousness: both are more powerful than I.
Being the child of African and Native American decent, the concept of being a slave of anyone is repugnant to me. I have been taught to believe in freedom, independence, autonomy, self-governance. These appear to be completely contrary to the reality of the Bible. I am not stronger than sin, but its slave. I am not stronger than righteousness, but its slave. My only choice is to choose whose slave I want to be.
The issue is the master and what he offers. Sin gives you what you earned: death. God as my master gifts to me eternal life. He does not give me what I deserve, but gives me a gift. He is the good, benevolent master to whom I chose to enslave myself to.
Response 1
@ Nick Clark
Nick I greatly appreciated the how you pointed out that Paul was completely sold out on the gospel. The idea of being sold out to/for Jesus has become fashionable but lack power, practically because the legalists will say that sold out to Christ is conformity to the law, while liberals will cry “grace” with no moral compunction to change or obey. Paul however has been arrested by the power of God, and this arresting has so radically revitalized his life that he must share it with Jew and gentile alike. Thank you for reminding me that it must be a daily reminding to me that I am to continuously experience the power of God’s Christ.
Response to Nancy Thomas
Hey Nancy I enjoyed how you tied the historical narrative of Israel into the personal framework of Paul's writing. I think it is an appropriate parrallel. I have always felt that Israel represented a paradigm through which the believer could more clearly see themselves. I believe this is strongly supported throughout the Bible. Furthermore, I agree with your sentiments concerning the watering down of the Gospel. I have often tried to uphold the high standard of the Gospel message. However, I have also faced tremendous challenges in communicating the Gospel in settings where people were unfamiliar with the basic tenets of the Christian faith and were also challenged in understanding basic biblical concepts. However, I realize that the continuing challenge is not to water down the Gospel message, but rather to continue to search for ways to make it plain and simple so that even a child need not err. I think that this comes with a deepening relationship with the giver of the message and continued experience in sharing that message. When that messages becomes personal to the messenger it becomes more natural to share with others.
Mike
Jasmine Johnson
Assignment #1 DOS
What is Salvation? How can one be saved? Numerous beliefs are being taught today, among the Christian community regarding the work of Christ in our salvation. It is often taught that justification is earned through works. "Every time that error is advanced, it will work for good to those who sincerely love God; for when the truth is shadowed by error, those whom the Lord has made His sentinels will make the truth sharper and clearer. They will search the Scriptures for evidence of their faith. The advancement of error is the call for God’s servants to arouse, and place the truth in bold relief." The Signs of the Times, January 6, 1898. The reason for the disagreement is simple, Ellen White reveals, "The enemy of man and God is not willing that this truth should be clearly presented; for he knows that if the people receive it fully, his power will be broken." The Review and Herald, September 3, 1889. Catholics teach "by grace alone" (sola gratia). Catholics believe they are saved by their works which come from grace, according to their teaching. Protestant biblical doctrine is based on justification by faith alone apart from works. Christianity teaches justification apart from the merit of works. Justification with God is apart from the merit of works. That does not mean that justification is apart from the existence of works. In order to increase Christian unity I would find the common ground, why the need of salvation, and build a foundation from there. I look forward to exploring this implications of Paul's Gospel, the Gospel of God, and the magnitude of SALVATION.
Response to Micheal Mickens Assignment #1
Did Paul know the extent of His writings, yes this letter is to the Roman Christians. What he wrote, did he intend the letter to also alleviate, and enlighten more than the Roman Christians. How could he measure the "divine purpose" if he was only writing to the Roman Christians? You stated "His message cuts directly against the culture of his day and the prevailing views about God held by both the Jews and the Greeks." I believe that we can expand and say that words that were spoken in his time, have continued to minister. If Paul had a grasp of the BIG GOSPEL that he was preaching, do you think he would have changed any of his writings?
Chester Clark III
Doctrine of Salvation – Dr. Hanna
Week 1 Reflection
This week’s reading included the first chapter of Romans, in which Paul, after an introduction and thesis statement regarding the power of the gospel, begins to lay the stage for the why of the gospel.
As an evangelist, Paul knew that before the amazing gospel of Jesus could be of relevance to his audience they needed to perceive a need. Luke 18:9-14. “The Lord can do nothing toward the recovery of man until, convinced of his own weakness, and stripped of all self-sufficiency, he yields himself to the control of God.” Desire of Ages, p. 300. In the first and second chapters of Romans, Paul points out the lost condition of mankind – as evidenced in the remarkable deviancy of a wicked world.
I enjoyed the reading of Whidden’s commentary on Ellen Harmon’s experience in seeking assurance. Having only recently studied the “Second Blessing” theology, it was enlightening to see how this prevalent thinking of her day may have influenced her own personal experience. This chapter neatly made the connection for me.
A number of observations struck me as I read her story. First of all, we must recognize the powerful influence that one’s theology has on their religious experience. Some seem to feel that theology and doctrine isn’t really all that important – just faith in Jesus. But the faith in Jesus that we will exercise will be shaped by our theological understandings.
Second, while the sense of need for “entire sanctification” which Ellen Harmon possessed may have been based upon a false expectation of an instantaneous experience, her quest for a closer walk with Jesus indeed brought her to a point in her experience where she found assurance in Him. Today, I think Adventists tend to be reactionary, and, responding to the human tendency towards legalism, dismiss any lack of assurance as being a lack of faith, a religion of works, or a misunderstanding of the gospel. It is sometimes urged that if we have accepted Jesus as our Savior (as Ellen had when nine years-old) we should be assured of our salvation without further questioning.
But could it be that a quick dismissal of personal heart searching and seeking to make sure one is right with God might actually lead to false assurance? Might one’s own heart-surrender be superficial or intellectual, but not genuine or sincere? Does not Paul insist that this self-examination is a personal responsibility (2 Corinthians 13:5)? With what criteria should this self-examination proceed?
I believe that in the coming chapters of Romans Paul will be seeking to awaken in the minds of his religious and spiritual readers that they are in fact lost despite being in the church (either the Jewish or Christian) if their lives are still being lived following the flesh rather than the Spirit.
Chester Clark III
Response to Reed Richardi, Week 1
Reed,
I really appreciated your practical application of the nature of Christ, and what it means to us! Like the human nature of Christ was united with the divine (constantly from his birth, unlike any of us who have sinned) our human nature can (and must) too be united with the power of divinity! What a blessing to be reminded of this privilege. Thank you!
I also appreciated how you further defined this indwelling of divinity, and reminded us that it is an abiding relationship with God, His infusing of Himself in our soul temples, and that while we partake of the divine nature we do not become divine. In this way Jesus was different than we can ever be, since His divinity was His own.
Mickens in Response to Jamine...
Thanks for responding Jasmine. I can definitely appreciate your point about the "Big Gospel" but I would caution us to remember that Paul's specific purpose was not theolgocial, and he wasn't merely offering a human philosophical perspective on the problems of his day. Paul was first and foremost a Pastor and an Evangelist. Thus his letter primarily reflects the concerns of a Spiritual Leader rather than someone attempting to make an impact on the history of Christianity. Although we can look back and see the significance of his gospel today, its important to remember the context in which that gospel was first given. By doing this we definitely don't dimminish Paul's gospel rather we elevate it to its proper status by recognizing the significance of its impact on the people of its day. But I must agree with you that today Paul's gospel is truly a "Big Gospel" and continues to have unique significance and relevance for the modern culture of the 21st century. The last thing I would remind us of is that overall Paul's gospel message changed lives in his day and continues to change lives today. In the words of one who stated it so eloquently almost 2000 years ago "it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Rom. 1:16)."
Oh and about Paul changing his gospel... He'd probably change the characters of the story... But I'm almost certain the the basic story would remain the same... lol
Thanks again for the comment...
Respectfully
Mike
Dario Ferreira
Doctrine of Salvation
Assignment #1
After doing the greeting (1:1-7), introduction (1:8-15), and to present the subject of the epistle (1:16,17), Paul introduces his letter to the Romans, making an invitation to a self-exam, with the objective of waking up a deep conviction of the sin and the desire and the need of liberating of the condemnation (1:18-32).
In the verses 28-32, speaking to the gentiles the apostle Paul presents the terrible sin condition and condemnation in that they were. They live deliberately in the sin and they will be judged (1:32) for they have despised the knowledge of God (1:28). In other words, for they live deliberately in the sin and they practice all types of inconvenient things (1:29-31), they would be already condemned, even without they hear the message of the Gospel it was not the grace of God through Jesus Christ. Along the book of Romans, Paul develops the theme of the salvation demonstrating that so much, gentiles and Jewish, as all of the men are in the sinners' condition, lacking of the justice and peace with God, just gotten by the faith in Jesus Christ.
In the verse 28 we found, for the third time, repeated the expression "God gave" them. That expression is finds in the verses 24 (Impurity), 26 (Shameful passions) and 28 (depraved mind), seemingly, expressing the same idea - all are related to the degradation resulting from a sinful disposition.
Would God be inducing such men to the practice of inappropriate things? The last part of the verse 27 clearly explains that delivery of God, in other words, receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. Using the same beginning of the law of the sowing and of the crop, where the people pick exactly what planted. It is as if God had given them to the power of the sin for removing any preventive action, leaving them totally given to the baseness of a sinful mind without any divine intervention.
The indulgence with the sin and the depravity in those individuals arrived at such a deep level that them not only makes the evil, but it approves the ones that practice it (v. 32). Nowadays, many of the most terrible sins have if tornado forms of entertainment. People, today, have fun in the sin, they motivate other to follow his example and mutually, not only approve his sinful practices, as well as they join to practice them.
When reading "Ellen's White on first two chapter Salvation" of Whidden, I was impressed with Ellen White's spiritual sensibility since their infantile years. I believe that the whole suffered crisis for her own salvation, it contributed to an understanding clear, wide and deep of the theme of the salvation. Ellen White received for inheritance the Methodist vision of the sanctification, but she didn't have the sense of the acceptance of God. That process, of crises and more crises, helped to see the truth of the justification more clearly for the faith in a balanced way and to prepare her to face the negatives confrontations with Holiness fanatics.
When reading Ángel Rodrigues' presentation regarding "Adam and the Race in the Writings of E. G. White", I noticed how explanatory they are Ellen White words regarding the results of Adam's fall and the initiative of God sending Jesus to save the human race. Above all, I would like to detach some points that a lot impressed me.
- The sad reality and the great magnitude of Adam's sin: "The results of Adam's sin cannot be fully comprehended by us because the magnitude of the damage it caused i not totally apprehended by us".… "Adam could not transmit to his posterity that which he did not possess. (p.2)
- The human and divine strength of Christ guarantee the victory for us: "Because man fallen could not overcome Satan with his human strength, Christ cam from the royal courts of heaven to help him with His human and divine strength combined". Wow!
Response to Young Suh
I agree with Young suh, when he said: There plows full of mysteries and hard-to-understands in the book of Romans in regards to salvation of God." It is really difficult to know that Paulo wanted to say, in many verse of Roman. I don't know if one day we will know…
I found interesting another aspect said by Young: "If the person can have salvation by faith in Jesus Christ, donate it mean that Adam lost his privilege by losing faith in God? In other words, whole point of salvation from eternal death resulted by sin is about faith in God." Not to live for the faith is to live independent of God. And to be independent of God, it is to be in the sin, totally separate from God.
Assignment #2
The reading from Whidden is what intrigues me the most of the three required readings since it seems the freshest, but I decided to read all of Romans this week and that brought it more “freshness” as well. I planned on reading it all in one sitting, because it is a letter and that is how it would have originally been intended, but I ended up breaking it into two sittings. It was helpful to get the whole argument, and seeing the progression from chapter to chapter showed me that he was slowly revealing his points and that any text, especially from earlier in the letter, taken out of context could be grossly misinterpreted. One such example towards the very beginning is the transition from chapters 1 to 2 where there is the idea that you shouldn’t accept certain actions at the end of chapter 1 which seems to open the door for judgmentalism if gone about incorrectly but then chapter 2 starts off with an exhortation to avoid judgmentalism. Also, the shift from showing that gentiles are sinners to the fact that Jews are also sinners and that all of have fallen short of the glory of God brings extra impact to this idea. I think it is vital that we, at least sometimes, read the Bible methodically and with the original audience and purpose in mind and try to put ourselves in that mindset to best glean the principles and teachings that can be applied to our lives today.
I was surprised in Whidden that the decade leading up to 1888 already showed a shift in Ellen White’s thinking that precipitates what took place. I had previously thought that her shift had been mainly through investigating the topics that were causing so much turmoil and then coming to new realizations through this. However, it seems as if this was all more of a process that had already been under way and was just catapulted by the events associated with 1888. Another interesting point I had not previously been aware of was that many of the holiness and perfection persuasion moved away from the Bible and had “very little use for the Bible.” I had thought that they would have been the type of have large portions of scripture memorized but not having taken it to heart, but to see that they were really just going off on their own tangents makes it seem as though there may have been precursors to some sort of new-age thinking involved in their disoriented thinking. Also, to think that they would not pray the Lord’s Prayer because they did not feel that they needed forgiveness seems fanatical to me, but I guess that is why we call them “fanatics.” Also, the 1883 GC session section was new to me and very interesting, it truly is an under-noticed aspect to this whole debate of salvation in the context of faith-works.
I am always happy to see the balance of Ellen White in her beliefs and writings, and wish that we would treat her with more balance today and put to use the principles she has to share with us.
Response #2
Response to Dario
I liked your use of the word crisis when looking at Ellen White's early experience, and also your thought about how this affected the joy with which she would view justification later in life. It seems as though it is through the struggle she had early in life that she was able to find the joy and relief in being a forgiven sinner that underlies Steps to Christ and the Desire of Ages.
I also liked your use of the terms deep and wide for later understanding she gained from these experiences. It amazes me how much our personal experience with God affects how we view Him, and how this can give us a special testimony to reach out to others.
Brian Baierl
Assignment #1
Salvation is the subject we are learning in this class. We have talked much in class about the various views of Salvation. Salvation has a variety of views from not just different denominations, but also within the denominations. I was somewhat surprised at the basis of the book by Whidden Ellen White on Salvation. I thought it was going to be a general compilation of writings by Ellen White. I had no idea there was misinterpretation among Seventh-day Adventists on the subject. The sad thing it is focused on her writings and not what the Bible says. I enjoy Ellen White do not misinterpret me. For instance I will enjoy reading what she says about the subject of Salvation.
I read the first chapter of Romans. The chapter is the beginning to one of my favorite books of the Bible. This chapter always dumb founds me when I see that they worship the creature instead of the Creator. I know it is easier to worship something you see physically, though if you know it is just a piece of wood or metal I would think it would lose its interest. The previous thought in the verse prior to the worship of creatures they perform a trade. I use to collect football cards and basketball cards. I would by packs and find out if I got someone awesome or some john doe. I would also look to trade for better cards amongst my friends. And what do they do? They trade the power, truth, and glory of God for John Doe. The sadness is compounded when the reader looks at the verse 16 of the chapter, “For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.” Here is the idea of Salvation that jumped at me; we should be looking to trade up for the gospel that gives life and transform our lives unto Salvation.
I read in the BRI an article on 1st Timothy 4:10. I was lost for the couple paragraphs. I thought, where are they getting the term “specially saved.” I was confused. The fifth paragraph it made some sense that the Greek word malista could be translated as that is instead of especially in reference to the believers. Only then did some of the previous paragraphs make sense. It was also nicely summed up with the idea that Jesus’ atonement is for all, and the Salvation effect is limited that is to whom believe and choose the Savior.
Response to Jason A. O'Rourke
I have the same problem with the fingers running into odd look words. I like to attribute it to a fast mind and slow fingers. A couple months ago I came across the same peculiar word usage by Paul. I am caucasian so I may not have the feeling the word slave exudes. As a converted Christian though I do. I have been a slave to sin. I was unaware, but none the less I was a slave. I like how you clarify the term of slave used. I felt the same way. I think also we have a tendecy to switch masters more than we like. I pray everyday to follow the master that gives life. You did a wonderful hermeneutics of the text.
Matthew Shallenberger
Assignment 1
As I read this week’s assignment, I pondered the reality that we face as human beings living on a sinful planet. The BRI article by Ángel Rodríguez especially stimulated my thinking. A pertinent question we might ask as we begin this semester’s study of salvation is this: why do human beings even need salvation? Furthermore, why do we need help from outside of ourselves to be saved?
The answer to the first part of the question is simple enough. We need salvation because we have sinned. When Adam and Eve ate the fruit, they disobeyed a direct and explicit order from God. In doing so, they incurred the death penalty and brought the curse of sin on the entire planet, including all subsequent generations of humanity. Rodríguez makes it quite clear that Ellen White’s view of the transference of sin was not that of the original sin doctrine (i.e. all humanity was present in Adam and thus shared in his guilt when he ate the fruit). Rather, Adam’s human nature became corrupted as a result of his sin, and thus he could only pass on to his posterity a morally twisted human nature. Rodríguez states several times that Adam could not give a sin-free human nature to his descendents because he could not give what he did not have. Thus we are all born with a depraved human nature, and we all sin, leaving us in need of salvation.
But what about the second part of the question? Why do we need help to be saved? Is there nothing we can do to save ourselves? Again, Rodríguez does a wonderful job of showing from Mrs. White’s writings the true state of humanity under the curse. When Adam sinned, he lost the power and dominion with which he had been created. The world and everything in it came under the control of Satan. Humans became his slaves. Adam and Eve could no longer choose their own destiny. When they were created they had free will, as illustrated by the test of the Tree of Knowledge. Adam and Eve exercised their free will and chose to eat the fruit. But in doing so, they lost their freedom. Now they could no longer choose whether or not to obey God. Rebellion became the default human condition, and now we are all born bent toward evil.
Romans 1 also illustrates the fact that sin brings captivity. Paul describes the condition of wicked men: “their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened,” “they became fools,” “God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity,” “God gave them over to shameful lusts,” “[God] gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done” (Rom 1:21, 22, 24, 26, 28). Sin only brings more sin. Left to ourselves, we will continue to sink deeper and deeper into corruption.
This is why we need help from outside of ourselves. It is impossible for us to do anything to remedy our condition because we cannot resist Satan on our own. But praise God for the gift of Jesus Christ! Ellen White writes that on the very day they sinned, Adam and Eve were offered the gift of the Messiah, and thankfully for all of us they accepted it. Otherwise, we would have no hope today. Jesus stepped in and became the mediator of the human race. Thousands of years before Calvary, Christ began His work of saving lost souls enslaved to sin. Because Adam and Eve accepted the gift of the promised Messiah, God not only postponed the death penalty they were facing, but He also gave them the power to resist Satan. Although humans are still born under the power of sin, through Jesus we have the option of being freed from Satan’s dominion.
As I consider all of these things, I come to this convicting conclusion: we need Jesus more than we could ever know. Salvation began long before Calvary. The plan was in God’s mind from the beginning, and He put it into action in Eden. And Jesus is the center of it all. Not only did He die to save us, but He also provides the power to resist Satan so we can come to Him and be freed. Without Jesus doing that for us, we could not even accept salvation. We owe everything to Jesus.
Response to Ryan Kilgore:
Ryan, your comments on fanatical perfectionism were right on the money. What a dangerous thing it is for us to fool ourselves into thinking we’ve reached perfection. Your story about the fanatical cult vividly illustrates that. If it’s true that as we grow closer to Jesus our own imperfection becomes clearer, we’d better watch out if we start to think that we’re doing alright!
Another aspect of misguided perfectionism which I’ve observed is the tendency to become focused on outward behavior. Rather than seeing sin as something which corrupts us from the inside, radical perfectionists often view sin as outward behaviors. Thus when they observe someone else engaging in behaviors they have deemed sinful, they become critical and judgmental of that person. In a church I attended, one of the members invited a lady to come to Sabbath School to share her testimony of how God had miraculously saved her life after a horrific boating accident. This woman was not an Adventist, and she wore earrings. After the program, the man who had invited the woman to speak was approached by some of the church members. They told him that if this woman was to speak at church again, perhaps she should be asked to remove her earrings. How sad that these people were so focused on outward appearance that they failed to see the incredible walking miracle that this woman was! They should have been excited that she would come to their church and share what God had done in her life, but their only concern was the fact that she wore jewelry. According to what Jesus says in Matt. 23:27, God’s idea of perfection involves more than whether or not we’ve removed all outward appearances of sin.
Response to Ryan Kilgore:
Appreciate your post, and im glad to see many of my classmates are on the same page with you. I had not noticed how big perfectionism was until i came to the seminary and heard one of our fellow classmates addressing this subject, saying that ministers are not perfect anymore and how we have lost the "seeking of perfection" becoming "sinless."
I reminded him of a few Biblical examples of biblical characters that sinned and God considered them perfect:
Genesis 6:9
9 This is the account of Noah.
Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and HE WALKED WITH GOD.
1 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am God Almighty [a] ; WALK before me and be blameless.
Enoc who walked with God and was taken to heaven,
David, a man after God's own heart. etc.
Even though these men had sin (one got drunk, the other lied, the other one committed adultery and killed a man) God considered them blameless, upright, perfect.
See, for man been perfect is equal to sinless.
For God, he measures perfection according to the walk we have with him.
Im so glad for the Bible and to see that there were men like me who had temptations and struggles.
Im so glad im judged by God and not by men.
Go ahead... try to be perfect... while you do that, I will walk with God : )
Assignment 1
Romans 1, Whidden ch. 2, “Adam and the Human Race in the writings of Ellen G. White”
Dr. Hanna talked at length about Paul’s understanding of the gospel. Paul says in Romans 1:16 that he is “not ashamed of the gospel”. And when I see this text it automatically seems to imply to me that others in his time and in our time may feel that the gospel is shameful in some sense, or weak in another. For he also says that it is the “power” of God unto Salvation; That God is able to save (present), and will save (future) according to the gospel of Christ. Shameful? Weak? These are not the adjectives that most Christians would use to describe the means or agent by which they have Salvation. However Christ and the cross by all other standards is just that. Christ can be seen as weak from a worldly point of view because He did not fight back, rebel, or escape. Shameful, because the cross by its very nature is ignominious and full of shame for it was used for vile offenders (Hebrews 12:1,2).
But Paul resolutely proclaims that the gospel of Christ is “power”. That through Christ salvation is ours and therefore it cannot be weak, and neither can he be ashamed of it. And it is for everyone who “believes” not to all who “work”, but those that believe. The fact that we are completely saved and completely redeemed and justified by Faith (belief) in Christ is the cause for Paul’s most forceful declaration.
I believe Ellen White Struggled with Believing the completeness of Christ’s atonement early on in life as well. According to Whoodrow Whidden, during her process of conversion she struggled to believe if she could even be saved. She was definitely confused in her understanding of justification by faith. And in my mind I do not fault her for her lack of understanding. Because I believe that when a man or woman comes in contact with the gospel, that it reveals to them how far they are from holiness, how different they are from Christ, and how undeserving they are of His awful sacrifice.
In class this week we also talked about Past, Present and Future salvation. And in Angel Rodriguez’s article he talks about the fact that when Adam sinned, because he was the father and representative of humanity he brought sin to the entire posterity of humanity. However God offered him the opportunity to be saved in the first pronouncement of the gospel: Genesis 3:15. Adam accepted this blessed opportunity, but when he did, he did so for himself. He claimed the promise and believed it and accepted it for his life, but for us he simply secured the opportunity for us to choose salvation for ourselves. So in one sense we are already saved because of the belief in the gift of God after the fall. But we are being saved because it is our choice to accept the gift on a daily basis. But still yet salvation is future because some might argue that we are not literally and really saved until Christ literally returns to take us with him.
Alicia Johnston
Assignment 1 (PS I thought I had posted this a week ago as I got the confirmation from the blog but only found out today that it did not post)
Reflection on Romans 1:
Something stuck out to me in verse 14. Paul says that he is indebted to everyone, Jew and Greek, the whole world. It is the same word that is translated dept in the Lord’s prayer in Matthew 6. We are to pray that we forgive our debtors. In other words, that we stop walking around trying in our bitterness and anger to make them pay the debt they owe us. When we let this go, we have forgiven.
Paul took it a step further, not only has he forgiven others, he has realized the full meaning of forgiveness, that you really owe God everything and he has forgiven you. This means that you are indebted to him and all of his children. But this isn’t expressed in bitterness and anger, but in joy at knowing you are able to give back when you have been given so much. It’s the other side of forgiveness.
The most amazing statement in this chapter is clearly the gospel statement. Paul says boldly “I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.” The gospel is the power. The power is not our faith. It is so easy to get caught up in having “enough” faith to be saved. It isn’t even about our faith. Our faith is not where the power to save us lies. It reminds me of a song by Caedmon’s Call with the words, “my faith is like shifting sand so I stand on Grace.”
The second half of the chapter is dark, scary, and makes me squirm a bit. I hate to think of these people who have so fallen away from God that they no longer know right from wrong. It is a strong warning. God honors our free will, even when it leads us away from him into idol worship and sexual immorality. To think that at one point they knew and understood that they were denying God, and that they turned away and now cannot even understand is so very sad. I think we all have moments of clarity in our lives, moments where God speaks so clearly we cannot deny it, at least for that moment. Then we are left to choose that clarity or lose it. I’m glad Romans doesn’t end there.
Reflection # 1
I’m really glad that the Doctrine of Salvation, though it is theological class, is based on the particular book of the Bible. It makes much more sense than just discussing of interdenominational or our domestic controversial issues. I hope such approach will keep us from burying into the technical details of the textual exegesis, and at the same time will protect us from getting lost in broad variety of theological interpretations.
As far as I understood Dr. Hanna, it is necessary for us to comprehend the introductory and conclusive passages of the epistle in order to follow the writer’s reasoning in between.
It’s quite interesting how Paul introduces Jesus Christ in 2nd and 3rd verses of the first chapter: “He
1) is come of the seed of David according to the flesh,
2) is marked out Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of sanctification, by the rising again from the dead” (Rom 1:2,3 YLT).
As Dr. Hanna pointed out, those verses are touching on the human and divine natures of Christ.
So, I was curious, why Paul describes human nature of Christ as the seed of David. He definitely may identify Jesus, for instance, with
the seed of the women (Gen 3:15: “And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel” KJV),
or the seed of Abraham (Gen 22:18: “In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed”).
However Paul has chosen to identify Jesus as the seed of David (2 Sam 7:12, 13: “I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever.” NKJ)
Though there are many New Testament passages crossing my mind that identify Jesus as the New Temple of God or as the head of the church, which is the New Testament temple of God, I’m very curious to see how this concept is developed in the epistle of Romans.
It is not quite evident for me yet. But I hope, that by keeping this angle in mind, I’ll be able to notice something I’ve been missing so far.
Alicia Johnston
Assignment 2
I just finished reading chapter three of Whidden. This chapter makes me really appreciate our history of struggling with the doctrine of salvation. It seems like we did not take the easy way out, like many have, in oversimplifying things. If it really were that simple, reading Romans and Galatians would be a lot easier!
I think we have the Sabbath to thank for that. It has grounded us in the Old Testament. So many Christians look at the Old Testament as the time before Grace, but that is not true. The Old Testament was the authoritative source quoted by Paul when explaining Grace.
What I see as one form of oversimplifying the gospel is saying that it is only about Jesus’ death paying for my sins so I can go to heaven. I say oversimplify instead of twist or distort because this perspective is true, but in my view it is not the whole truth, maybe not even the primary truth. Jesus’ ministry was to save us from sin, which leads to death (spiritually and literally). If he came to save us from sin, then our continuing actions after/while experiencing salvation must matter, and they must matter a lot. If God cannot save me from my addictions, hate, and pride, then God cannot save me from my sin. I’m not saying it needs to be immediate, but that it should at least be a process (even if a slow process) that is begun.
I used to be a substance abuse counselor, and someone told me once that only addicts understand grace. Step number 1 for AA begins “We admitted we were powerless.” That is gospel! And that is the first step to healing. I am grateful that grace means salvation, not just for heaven, but for today and for all the things I am powerless over.
Yet even talking about this brings up all kinds of additional questions for me. Why do I sometimes struggle for years with sinful habits? Why does it require so much effort from me? How do people change when it does not appear that God has changed them (through therapy, community, etc)? There are a lot of things still to be worked-out for me. I’ll probably never work them all out, but I know enough to know that I can depend on God’s grace for today and tomorrow.
Assignment 1
Reflecting on the BRI of Adams fall, I think Manuel Rodriguez brings it home by saying that it was the worst disaster that could of have taken place on this earth. I don’t think we can possibly comprehend with our finite minds what really happened.
God is so amazing that he risked everything to come and rescue us. Definitely the whole universe could now see that the character of God is love. Out of the immensity of the universe, out of all the planets, Jesus comes to ours, and he dies for us, an insignificant race who decides to disobey.
What a reward it will be when we live with Jesus for eternity, the son of God will be part human forever.
We had communication with God face to face! And we lost it, yet, God still wanted us. The interesting thing is that while God doesn’t need us, He wants to be with us, and while we desperately need Him, most of the time we don’t want to be with Him.
Our new condition is to be slave to sin. This really stinks for me, I am 24 and I am tired already of fighting against temptations, I wish I didn’t have weaknesses, I wish I could be just in peace, body and spiritual. Apostle Paul tells us this fighting will be over when Jesus comes to take us home. I will not have to wrestle with my flesh no more or my thoughts, I will be pure, and it will come as the most natural thing ever. I can’t wait for that day to come.
Just how we rebelled against God, the inferior creatures (animals) rebelled against us.
"The inheritance of children is that of sin. Sin has separated them from God. . . . As related to the first Adam, men receive from him nothing but guilt and the sentence of death." I wish though that I could inherit from Adam holiness and purity. I wonder what I would have done if I was in his place. I will ask him what drove him to eat the prohibit fruit. He knew better than that. Was it love for Eva? Lack of faith? curiosity?
I am glad I found this article because there are some Adventist, who still believe in original sin. This according to the article: “Neither do we find in her writings the idea that the sin of Adam was imputed to the human race. Adam's sin was his own sin, but it had a universal impact and negatively affected every member of the human race, who is now born in state of separation from God and unable to overcome the power of sin. He determined our fate.”
Aren’t you happy that now Jesus took Adams spot? Jesus did it for us! What a relief.
@ Paulo Tenorio
Assignment 2 (response)
I read that article this week as well. It made me think about what we may be passing on to the next generation. If Adam's sin is impacting us all these thousands of years later, how much influence must we have on future generations as well, for good or bad.
The other thing I was thinking is how different the view that Rodriguez presented really was from original sin. I'm not trying to make a judgement call either way. Original sin seems to be a very legal idea. What Rodriguez said was more about human nature. But either way, we still need a savior. Jesus saves us from who we are as much as from what we have done or what someone else has done that made us guilty. I'm open to the idea that it might be extremely important and I'm just not getting it :) I do think infant baptism is silly, and could be damaging if you think anyone who didn't have it is lost, but you could justify that under either system.
What I do think is a bigger issue is the difference between a strictly legal interpretation and a more holistic model. The legal seems to favor outward actions, whether it be sacraments or praying certain words, while if you take a holistic perspective on sin, then you have to take a holistic view of salvation as well. Jesus is about more than stamping our passports for heaven. Jesus died to make us new creatures.
Assignment #1
Well, I must say it was a little bit of a challenge re-reading Romans 1 with a fresh perspective because we have recently studied this in Sabbath school and I was part of a great class on this chapter. Nonetheless, as I read I would say what impacted me the most as I read was what the professor had talked about in the first class. He emphasized Romans 1:16 and how the gospel was the ‘power of God’. This really helped me re-focus because for some reason if you were to ask me what the key verse was in Romans I would have said 1:17, “the just shall live by faith”. I have realized that the two do go together and that you cannot separate them however because my focus was on the second part (v17) I came to realize that possible I was thinking of my part in salvation before I was thinking about God’s part. Is this a sign that I was focused more on my ‘works’ or my part in the salvation process than God’s? Was I leaning towards legalism and focusing too much on me rather than God? Perhaps someone else can comment. Nonetheless, this was a great eye-opener because it brought me back to God and ‘the power of God’ being my primary thought. I appreciated the class lecture on this because if it had not been for that I think I would have kept on focusing on v17 rather than v16.
Response to Alicia Johnston: Assignment 1
Hey Alicia. I didnt know name was spelled like that. I thought it was spelled Alishia.
Anyway, I suppose to leave two comments, and one needs to be positive.
Comment #1: Romans 1:14 never stuck out to me before, until you brought it up. I have a different look at it though. Paul felt indebt to people, as if he owed them a sermon of the gospel (vs 15). Many times we don't feel like we owe anybody. But what if I felt as though I did owe the people around me something? What if I felt like owed them the message of salvation?
Comment #2: Praise God that there is more to Romans like you said. There is hope.
Wayne Jamel
Martin Hanna, Ph.D.
THST540 Doctrine of Salvation 2 credits
06 September 2010
Weekly Blog Assignment #1:
EVERYONE WAS NOT SAVED AT THE CROSS
Many people believe that when Jesus died on the cross, He saved everyone. Err!! Nope! Jesus death did not save everyone. Now, before you declare HERESY on me, hear me out, and maybe you won’t excommunicate me.
In the article, “Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10” Ángel Manuel Rodríguez argues against this philosophy of everyone being saved on the cross. He presents some very good arguments. I would like to add on some of my own arguments as well.
My first argument is that, people are, and will be, lost. Revelation 20:15 states, “whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” If everyone was saved at the cross, then we would not be reading in Revelation 20 about the lost being cast into the lake of fire.
Okay, many don’t have a problem with what I said above. People who believe that Jesus saved all at the cross would say, “Obviously some people are going to end up in hell, but the cross did save everyone, just some don’t know it yet and some haven’t excepted their salvation yet. They’re saved, they just need to believe it.” Seriously, that trend of thought doesn’t make sense. 2 Corinthians 4:3 talks about people who are “lost.” It wouldn’t mention that people are lost, if everyone was saved.
It is not a matter of people simply believing that they are saved in order to be saved. Acts 3:19 says, “Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out.” Before sin can be blotted out, before we can be saved, we need to repent and be converted. Cha-Ching! Right here, we have evidence that our sinned were not blotted out yet on the cross, therefore we were not yet saved, because the “wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23).
You’re probably wondering, what is the big deal? The big deal is freedom of choice. If we believe that we are saved without making that choice to surrender our lives to God, then we won’t realize the danger of sin in our life. For a problem to be solved, we need to realize there is a problem. The problem is that we are lost. Therefore we need a Savior.
So what did happen on the cross? A provision was made for the sinner (E. G. White, PrT, November 3, 1885 par. 11 / TMK 62.3). Jesus died, so we won’t have to die for our own sins. However, if we don’t do our part, it won’t count. We have to place our sins on Jesus, just like how the Israelites placed their sins on the lamb. The simple act of the lamb dying or even being sacrificed doesn’t mean a thing. The significance was the sinner placing his sin on the sacrifice. We need to place our sins to the sacrifice, which is Jesus. Jesus’ death is there, to be applied by those who repent. When we repent, Jesus is able to serve as our advocate before the Father (1 John 2:1). Jesus can save us from our sins, but we need to make the choice to allow His death to be credited to our account, and for Him to change our life.
Response to Reed Richardi
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and insights. It was a blessing for me.
Every point in your reflection on the nature of Christ makes a lot of sense.
There are many powerful statements in your post:
“The nature of Christ is a model of what God wants to do in us.” Yes!
The problem is not in our actions but in our nature…
“Through the promises in God's word we can be partakers of the divine nature!” Amen
“The new heart that God promises to give us is His own…”
“Like Christ we can become living temples of the Living God. This new nature, this divinity, is never our own, it is never ours to possess…”
Amen, brother! Blessed are you, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you ☺
Nancy Thomas response to Tyler: I just want to say that the bible always grows when we read it. I promise you I love reading the O.T. and every time I read the story of Joshua along with the Israelite s at the wall of Jericho I learn something new that I never saw before. So Tyler just an encouragement keep on studying and take the whole bible in for there is power all through it- also congratulations on your blessing from the reading Nancy
Doctrine of Salvation 2 – Paul Takes Issues With Origins “Suspended in the Void”
In Romans Chapter 1:18 Paul begins his argument with a decisive verdict followed by a scathing indictment. According to Paul the indictment is directed at wicked human beings who have attempted to cover up the truth about God through their false beliefs and practices. Furthermore, Paul seems to suggest that they are without a defensible argument to the charges that are being brought against them. In the case of The Common Wealth of God vs. The Wickedness of Human Beings, Paul seems to suggest that the overwhelming weight of evidence is on God’s side. Therefore wicked human beings have been weighed in the balance and found wanting. It is interesting to note that Paul frames his argument within the context of the Great Controversy. Now before you get the impression that I may be imposing this upon the text lets take a closer look at the actual structure of Paul’s argument within the text. In what appears to be the central thrust to Paul’s argument and central to the text itself, Paul states, “What can be known about God is plain to them, because God (Himself) has made it plain to them (italics and emphasis added).” And then he says, “since the creation of the world,” (attempting to demonstrate that this judicial matter dates all the way back to the beginning of time) “God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power, and divine nature have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made.” Here Paul, persuasively argues that God as the Creator has revealed Himself to mankind and that His self-revelation of his invisible qualities as seen through His divine nature and eternal power can clearly be seen through his creation. Now this is extremely significant because Paul clearly intends to demonstrate that God is both divine and eternal, demonstrating that both his nature and existence are outside of the earthly realm and beyond the dimensions of cyclical time (kronos). Therefore, Paul sets up his argument in a way similar to the earlier philosophers of his day by suggesting that if there is a first cause then God must be the originator of such a cause, making Him the First born among all things. This causes Paul to conclude toward the very end of his argument that since God is the first cause or the originator of all things and since all things exist because of Him, then He rather than the creation itself is worthy of both our present worship and our eternal praise. However Paul’s indictment against the wicked is for doing exactly the opposite. He accuses them of neither glorifying God nor giving thanks to Him. Because of this Paul states that all of their understanding comes to nothing and their uneducated minds became further unenlightened. Apparently they thought themselves to be educated, but according to Paul they are really uneducated and their failure to realize the true state of their being makes their present situation all the more tragic. As one Seminary professor recently stated, they are “suspended in the void.” They have actually reversed the true nature of God as well as themselves. In fact, they have placed God in the place of man, and they have placed man in the place of God. Just as Paul stated, “they have exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal human beings.” What they have effectually done was to place God at the center of Humanity and they have placed man at the center of Divinity. They have repeated the very first sin; they have lifted up their head and have declared, “We shall be like the Most High.” (Note: Their interpretation of the cosmology viewed man as possessing God-like qualities and God as possessing man like qualities. In essence they have attempted to switch places with God and have God switch places with them. In other words they have attempted to dethrone God.)
Comment Continued...
In their wretched sinful condition they find themselves worshipping the birds, the animals, and the reptiles. The very thing that God had given them dominion over in the beginning they have become subjected to. They have indeed exchanged the truth of God for a lie. According to Paul, this is the result of all those who chose to ignore the revelation that God has disclosed of Him self in the book of nature. Having once been appointed as Masters and Overseers they have become slaves placing themselves under the subjection of their own deceit and have thereby enslaved themselves to the vanity of their own lies. Therefore, Paul says that God gives them over to themselves, and thus they become the author of their own undoing, the powerless god’s of their own fate. They are “suspended in the void” of life’s most important controversy, the Great Controversy for their own souls. The indictment has been made and the verdict has been given, “the wrath of God shall be revealed from heaven.”
Comment on Michael Mickens
"Who Shall We Worship"
I thought I should be the first to reflect on my comments on Romans 1:18-25. I am currently taking a class called "Issues of Origins" some of you are in that class with me and others I'm sure are aware of the course offering. Anyway, I shared that because I saw a connection between our recent class lecture by Dr. John T. Baldwin and the above cited passage. As I looked at the text I realized the seriousness of Paul's words and the implications of his message. In fact, I believe Paul was suggesting that persons who deliberately distort the truth of God will incur the wrath of God. I want to point out here that Paul's message seems to apply to individuals who have a clear and direct knowledge of God and who intentionally attempt to cover up the truth about God. To me this has major implications although I don't think those implications are primarily theological. It seems more to me that Paul was making a "moral argument" here. Paul seems to indicate that individuals who misinterpret or misrepresent the creation of God could possibly be at risk of rejecting the creator Himself. In other words, by rejecting a proper understanding of creation they could potentially end up rejecting God and thereby falling into behaviors and practices that are self-destructive. Here is a clear instance when a person's theological reckoning could have major consequences on their moral behavior. Notice that Paul does not suggest that God imposes this on them but rather that he merely "hands them over" to their own desires. I think this has very serious implications for both believers and non believers alike. According to my understanding of Paul, a persons view of God as "Creator" impacts the manner in which they relate to Him as "Savior and Lord."
Lavina Seawright
Assignment #1
I really enjoyed reading the RBI document on Adam. Coming from a Psychology background I always found the topic of salvation to be simple yet so complex. I couldn’t just wrap my head around it and pastors always seemed to make it sound so simple. I appreciate what Angel presents here, it was great reading about Adam and the human race and seeing the distinction between what Adam did as a rep for the human race and its impact. I think about my warped views growing up and my limited understanding as an adult and I realize even more so now that I still won’t fully understand. Coming from an honest place I can say that I see why Ellen was so torn up in about sanctification and perfection. With all that she was hearing and exposed to, there was a lot, maybe too much to take in and even absorb. But when she was able to hear about the love of God and that he was not as she previously viewed him. It makes me think about how many times I thought I was hopelessly doomed to hell and that even though I knew God loved me I felt like I had to “do something” or “be better” in order to really be saved.
When Paul said that the gospel was the power of God, it forced me to contemplate God in a different way…trying to conceive how great his power really is it impossible for me but to see a measure of his greatness, what a blessing.
Lavina Seawright Response to Tyler
I really enjoyed reading your comment, not only because it was short...:o) but because it sounded like it came from a place that I have been. Realizing that you were missing something key that has always been there.
Your discussion on v16 & 17 and how you viewed it in terms of "your Part" was enlightening...it made me think about myself and how I look at things and brought me to a heightened awareness of it.
Thanks for sharing and for your honesty in your experience. I pray that you continue to grow deeper in your relationship with Christ and your understanding of his word.
Assignment 1; I read the chapter 1 of Ellen White on the Humanity of Christ because it is the foggy part in my understanding. As Pr. Hanna mentioned that human’s interpretation used to lead us to the wrong direction instead of wrong revelation from Creator. Therefore, I look for the prophet’s direction, prior to have the concept from others. Jesus Christ took the very unique God-man, it was and is a mystery part. We are limited for full understanding of Christ’s incarnation without revelation for Himself who has been existed unique form under the covenant for redeeming the lost. This special idea had been occurred to the trinity in the Council of Peace.(Zech 6:13) 1. The purpose of the unique form is to be the interacting-bridge between God and fallen human. 2. The dilemma of connection by bridge was big gap of difference in existence in God and fallen human. One is sinner, The other is sinless God. 3. Therefore, the bridge of connection to two-party needs both characteristics from each side in order that God could have gotten in touch with fallen human in capability of communication and restoration by His power. 4. The definition of sin which against to the law of God couldn’t have made Jesus sinner because He never had broken the law of God but He took sinner’s penalty and weakness. (to be continue…)
Dario Ferreira
Doctrine of Salvation
Assignment #2
When reading Romans chapter 2, I noticed that chapter was especially driven the Jews. After speaking in the chapter 1 about the gentiles’ depraved situation, Paul now, knowing the human nature and mainly the spiritual advantages of the Jews over the gentiles, it begins to question the automatic comparison and consequent judgment from Jews to gentiles, showing that any judgment should be made with base in the truth (Rom. 2:2). Under that aspect, they would also be judged by God. They were fair to the eyes of God, but in spite of they possess light regarding the will of God, they still practiced the same sins, even if underground. Paul made clear that Jews and gentiles are blamed equally and they lack regret. God doesn't make people's meaning and all will be judged, through Jesus Christ (Rom. 2:11,16). Paul speaks about the incoherence of the Jews that knowing the will of God and not practicing, they scandalize the heathens swearing the name of God. And it concludes saying that the most important is to do the will of God in the heart than just to act outwardly. That is the message of the Gospel - the power of God for the salvation of all that has faith". (Rom. 1:16)
Writing about “The Decade Before 1888” Whidden shows the balanced ministry of Salvation of Ellen white among Justification and perfection. Ellen white in the decade before 1888, already noticed against perfectionist fanatic, as well as against the preachers of the “cheap grace”. During the period when Ellen White was in Europe (1885-1887) we can see in their teachings about salvation an authentic balance emphasizing as much the justification as the obedience. More and more in her sermons and writings, she emphasized our acceptance through Jesus’ by faith alone merits. We can see the revelation of God clearly regarding the doctrine of the salvation, through Ellen White ministry.
To analyze the doctrine of universal Legal Justification, Larry J. Kane comments on of loving God’s initiative on man's behalf. In Romans 3 and 5, we understood that the justification brought by the grace of God is reached by the faith in Jesus and applied without conditions to all men that believe. It is evident that the Justification by faith contains both legal and experimental dimensions. God has been making the possible to rescue their creatures. He always takes the initiative for their children's salvation. Their efforts can only be impeded by the choice freedom of those that consciously choose to reject his Son's expiatory sacrifice, Jesus Christ, in favor of the human race.
Response to Landon Schnabel : Assignment 2
I liked the way that you commented on regarding the transition from chapter 1 to 2. It is interesting that after speaking so much of the sinful situation of the gentiles, Paul begins the chapter 2 asking the Jews to avoid the judgment, showing that both Jews and gentiles are lacking of the grace of God.
I appreciated the prominence that you gave to the fact that the fanatic perfectionists did (and I believe that they still do today) little use of the Bible. That makes clear that the base of their convictions is not in the Bible.
Kevin Solomon
Assignment 1
One of my cherished pursuits has been a desire to understand the dynamics of the gospel. I venture on this quest while doing my undergrad at Oakwood University. I plunged into the writings of John in an attempt to ‘get ‘the gospel. This proved somewhat fruitful but prompted more questions than answers. With all my reading and research, it was not until I picked up the all too familiar book, ‘Steps to Christ’ that I encountered Jesus and experienced his transforming grace.
Upon reading the first section of the book, ‘Ellen White on Salvation,” I came to appreciate the framework in which Ellen White came to her understanding salvation. I was surprised to discover how aspects of Wesleyan and Lutheran theology framed Mrs. White understanding of the gospel. One of the first things that that stood out to me was the reality of Ellen White struggle with her assurance of salvation. This puts a human face on this mythical figure and highlights my experience and those of others within the church. As White later shared in her writings, when we sense the love and holiness of God, we come to see our own sinfulness, and our need of salvation. It is here that we must look away from ourselves to Jesus and through trust come to find peace and assurance in Him.
Secondly, it is interesting to trace the development of Ellen White’s theology of salvation. Ellen White had a high view of sanctification and the need for holiness of heart and life yet her run in with the fanatical holiness movement sharpened her theology of perfection. Ellen White stressed that sanctification was the work of a lifetime; sinless perfection does not happen instantly, it is a process. Her theology was not static, or dogmatic, but well balanced. Ellen White’s understanding of the Gospel was historical, biblical, Christological, apologetic, and contextually relevant. This woman of God developed a Christ Centered understanding of salvation that practically aided others and addressed key issues. I pray that our experience and understanding of salvation will give us assurance in Jesus and equip us to offer corrective as well as consolation concerning the subject of salvation within our own contemporary context.
Lastly in reflection on the class lectures and reading of Romans I truly appreciative the comprehensive approach to the topic of salvation in Dr. Hanna’s teaching as well as Paul’s view of the Gospel in my reading. I do agree with the professor Hanna that salvation is a process centered in the eternal purposes of God that is accomplished through Jesus who is God, coming in human flesh, dying on cavalry, resurrecting with power, seated at the right hand, atoning for my sins, as we wait in hope for our final redemption. Unfortunately I have been one to limit the gospel to just the cross event when there is a larger story in which all components are necessary and in which the triune God is active engaged.
In my reading of Romans 1 Paul seems preoccupied with the Gospel, he is set apart for it, his ministry is constrained by it, and he is eager to preach it. According to Paul when it comes to the gospel; God promised it, the OT substantiates it, Christ is the substance of it, and the obedience of faith is its goal. Paul goes on to say that the gospel is the power of God, it reveals the righteousness of God, it hinges on the faith of man, and due to our rebellion it is the greatest need in our world. This gospel enacted by God, expressed in Jesus, experience through the Spirit, and eternal in significance. Such a gospel in its essence is the triune God’s response to our sin of rejecting God, by saving us from existence without God and granting us nothing less than God, as our greatest good and highest pleasure. For God Himself is the gospel.
Nick Clark
Doctrine of Salvation
Assignment #2
In my reading of Romans chapter 2 one verse that stuck out to me was Romans 2:4 that says, “God’s kindness leads you toward repentance.” I love this picture that Paul is painting for us throughout Romans concerning the way that God is saving us. If we repent we are forgiven and usually all the focus goes to the fact that God forgives, and this is a beautiful and wonderful truth, but equally wonderful is the idea that God leads us to ask for forgiveness also. He is supplying everything we need, every step of the way He is moving on us and guiding us to Him.
I found the ideas presented in the online reading to be pretty interesting, the idea of legal justification. In my reading of that article and my reading of Romans 2 was drawn to Paul’s well-rounded view of righteousness. Romans 3:22 states that “this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.” If this was read by itself and a conclusion was to be drawn from it alone, it’s easy to see how believing is everything, it’s all you have to do to be justified. Then you have Romans 2:13, where Paul says, “for it is not those you hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.” So, Paul is saying righteousness comes through faith, belief, in Jesus Christ, also in chapter 10 verse says, that “faith comes from hearing the message.” In other words hearing the message produces faith, and by faith we are justified. But then Paul adds that righteousness goes to those who obey the law in chapter 2. Paul is not preaching a “cheap grace”, but he is teaching that we are justified freely, and having been justified we will be moved to walk in the way of the Spirit, and all this is with the power of God to guide us. So, yes righteousness is given to those obey the law, but only those that have faith in Jesus Christ are moved to obey his law. And the difference is that those who have faith in Christ and receive His righteousness obey the law out of love rather than obeying the law to receive righteousness apart from Christ. It can’t be done on our own, apart from Christ the law does nothing for us, it only condemns and Paul is clear about this. This is definitely an awesome thing to study and gain more understanding of how God is saving us and how much He loves us.
Response to Dario Ferreira,(assignment 2)
Dario I really like how you pointed out how Paul's transition of focus from chapter 1 to chapter 2. And I like that you emphasized that having the will of God in our hearts is so important and that just doing things and going through the motions is not what pleases God.
Kevin Solomon
Response to Tyler
Tyler I appreciate your thought that many times we focus on our part rather than God’s part in our salvation. I have found myself here many times, focusing on what I need to do rather than resting in what God has done. The gospel indeed is the ‘power of God.’ I once heard someone say, that where we go wrong with the gospel is that we try to do God’s part while neglecting to do own part. He said, “I tried to do God’s part, the part that I wasn’t suppose to do and could not do(salvation), while ignore to do my part, the part that only I could do(faith).”
Doctrine of Salvation Reflection assignment 1 Sept. 2
I have read the essay on BRI Justification and the Cross.
Analysis Rom. 5:12-21 the connection between justification by faith and the cross of Christ. Through sin of Adam death had access to the world. In heaven sin will rise up no more. It is sin that brought separation from God then the behavior problems as its consequence. In order to solve the problem we need to go to the root of the matter. One of the most important task as a spiritual leader is to establish in believer a living, meaningful spiritual relationship with God. Whether believer takes it serious or not is a life and death matter. May all realize that and have the spring of living water always flowing in them.
Rom 5:12b In this way death came to all men, because all sinned. Author considers there is no reference here to the imputation of the sin of Adam to "all". There is clearly an element of solidarity with him, but it is a solidarity in result not in the act. The result is all men born separated from God and head to death. But latter he claim Adventist do believe that the sin of Adam weakened human nature making our sinning unavoidable. It seem Adam’s sin problem affect all human not just in the area of the result -- death but involve in our nature changed when we are born. This change of nature is certain not because we sinned (In our own way). When Adam sinned we do have something changed in Adam even before we are not born. The in Adam and in Christ paradigm still need further consideration.
Response to Jasmine
Thank you for your meaningful quo from E.G. White that when error comes, it still can be for a good purpose for those who sincerely seek God for an answer in order to vindicate Him in love. The power of enemy is lies on lies. If the truth is reveal, the hold of lie will be broken. We should know the truth and the truth shall make us free.
Doctrine of Salvation: Assignment 2
Adoption of Son-ship
Rom 8:15-19 “For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.”
I was a military man. I was used to taking order. I was used to giving orders. I was obedient when it suited me, but when it didn’t I would break the rules to accomplish what I considered to be the greater good of the unit. I would beg forgiveness before asking permission. I never wanted to be in the presence of my superiors. I wanted them to give me my orders and leave me alone (I still struggle with that concept even now).
Then I got out of the army. I moved in with my pop. I was no longer soldier. I was a son. However, I was still relating to my father based on being a soldier. The army had made me a soldier-man, but not a son. My relationship with my father was strained because I was used to obeying master, and not relating to a father. So my father was master to me, and not a master that I was used to. He loved me. I was valuable to him because I was his son, not based on whether or not I accomplished the mission.
It is with this concept that I approach the topic of adoption of Son-ship. According to Paul, when we come to Christ, we are choosing to become slaves of God. That is all we can choose to become: doulos of either God or Satan. Yet when we choose God, instead of the wages of sin at the end, he gifts us with eternal life in Jesus. Then, on top of that, Romans 8 informs us that we are adopted as sons, and joint heirs with Christ! Christ shares his inheritance with us! Now Christ is the unique and only literal son of God, and yet to be joint heirs with Christ implies that even though we are adopted, our share in the inheritance is equal to the biologically unique, divinely human, one and only Son himself. As the image of God we were created to call God master because he is the creator of all life; because of Christ we are now saved to call God father, as legitimate children. God dares the entire universe to challenge our claim to Him. Christ’s sacrifice of become human ties God closer to the human family that to any other created being in the universe. What a privilege: to be saved means that, because of Christ, humanity is higher than simply being the image of God. We are now God’s Family.
The Epistle to Romans is one of the most inspiring to me. It is at the same time one of the most challenging. The study of this Epistle turned the world upside down in 16th century. In my view the study of this epistle is going to have the same effect if we diligently will study it today. I am glad that this book is going to be the focus of our study this semester.
The Prologue and Epilogue of the Epistle to Romans are clearly connected. The discussion about the call of Paul as the Apostle of Jesus Christ is not by accident. As Paul is talking in Romans 1:5 about “the obedience that comes from faith” we see that the Gospel is the power that requires the obedience. We meet similar expression in the Epilogue of the epistle. Every time I read such verses it reminds me about the power of God, that was able to resurrect Jesus from the dead. Paul is talking about the same power in both places.
The power of God that was able to restore Jesus after death is all about salvation. If God was able to do it with Jesus (and Jesus as we know died with the second death) He will be able to save me from my mortal body. The power that brings us salvation refers to salvation not in the future only, but to our current lives. The resurrection from the state of sin was enabled on the cross of Christ and from there the power is breaking everything related to consequence of sin. The wave of the power of God enables people to live Christlike life, and it is all about the giver of Jesus to us. Thus the power of God that Paul is talking about is the power that he is not ashamed to preach about. Indeed you will not be ashamed to preach about something that makes people rich and prosper.
The problem I see in today’s Christianity – we are not aware of the power of God that is able to restore any human being regardless to his/her situation and make them millionaires in spiritual life and restore their spirit from the one of sorrow to the one of endless joy. To that kind of joyful Christian spirit Paul is inviting us in his epistle. That is way he has this phrase: “the obedience that comes from faith.” We are not used to obey anybody(spiritual authority) today. We do not respect, nor we realize that obedience from faith is the one that brings us peace.
In my life I see that times when I and sad and bloomy are the times when I completely forget about the power that is given to me through Jesus. When I realize that the same power that took Jesus from the grave is able to take me out of my sorrows and sins today easily my heart rejoices and becomes joyful again. Indeed we forget what we have. Indeed we cannot preach what we do not have. But if we want – the power of God is available 24/7. I wish I would always be able to say with Paul about the power of God that he was not ashamed to preach about. The end of the book of Romans says again about the power of God and obedience that comes from faith, that needs to be preached. We obey something anyway. Why would I be ashamed to preach about the obedience that brings people peace? If only I am not testing from that power daily – this is the only reason for being ashamed to preach it.
@Alexander
I am in complete agreement with you brother that the study of the book of Romans will turn the world upside down. The "both and" motif is so power: law and grace (gospel), obedience and faith (of faith), slaves and sons, etc. I too am glad that we are studying Romans this semester.
I find it interesting that when we read about the obedience of faith, we tend to focus on the obedience part of the phrase. We are always ready to preach about obedience. The concern I have is that Paul, while describing the sin problem very effectively, does not begin to even tell people about practical obedience in any of his letters (as i have read them) until he has thoroughly saturated their minds with the reality that they are a new creature in Christ. he doesn't assume that they understand it or know it. He spends a large bulk of Romans, from chapters 4-12, describing the issues of faith as they relate to one's identity in Christ. He even takes the 2nd 1/2 of chapter 7 to discuss his personal failures at being obedient to the law while knowing the law intimately. It seems to me that preaching obedience for obedience sake, because obedience is the will of God, is futile to any human unless I spend a large portion of my time cementing their faith in the fact that they are new creatures, saved, having assurance, having access to the Divine, having all authority and power because they are in Christ, etc. it is from this faith-filled position that preaching obedience bears fruit of righteousness. All other preaching of obedience outside of such a faith focus appears to produce, pride, elitism, separatism, egotism, judgmentalism, legalism and any other "ism" heretofore not mentions lol
but anyway, i am not saying that you intend to preach any of the above stated "isms". I enjoyed your blog, and share your passion for seeing people realize the power of Christ to raise are dead, moral or literal into the newness of His life
Respectfully
JaO
Doctrine of Salvation Reflection assignment 2 Sept. 9, 2010
Michael Liu
The chapter on the Significance and Meaning of Minneapolis and 1888 of the Book Ellen White on Salvation
Ellen White said that there was an urgent need to uplift the subject of justification by faith in Christ’s saving merits and a deeper experience of the love and acceptance of God. Those who had justification by faith experienced a relief and blessing to their soul and felt the peace with God never before. She saw the church in a great crisis of doctrinal misconceptions about justification and failure to experience what the doctrine sought to describe. Her effort is to relieve the dry spiritual conditions of the Adventist. The material on justification by faith of E.G. White’s book form 1844 to 1902 roughly 45 percent of her entire writings. What she presented to people was “the matchless charms of Christ”
The concept of an objective view of Christ – objective justification - advocating for us as our high priest was exploiting to its fullest by Ellen White before 1888 claimed by the author. Minneapolis was an inspiration to a great call for Christ-centered ministry in the setting of justification by faith.
The charge of the emphasis on justification by faith is in the destroying the authority of God’s law. He replied this anti-law e=sentiments by stating “Let the law take care of itself.” We have been at work on the law until we get as dry as the hill of Gilboa … Let us trust in the merit of Jesus. Those fear of destroying the law was by those who had not heard all the lessons concerning justification by faith given. So what is the lessons she had in mind deserve further exploration.
She replied the inquiring if the message of justification by faith is the third angel’s message, answered, “It is the third angel’s message in verity”. (1SM327)
We Adventist were entrusted with the three angel’s message to proclaim means to include the message of the justification by faith also.
Response to Jinwook
Thank you for bring out the statement of the trinity in the Council of Peace to clarify the purpose of incarnation of Christ. That document give us a fuller picture to wrestle on.
Reed Richardi
Assignment # 2
Some thought from our classroom discussion on freedom as well as the BRI document Predestination, Foreknowledge, and Human Freedom. I think that most of us would agree that human freedom is one of the central issues in the topic of salvation. For quite some time now I have been desiring a better understanding of this topic. There are many statements in the New Testament (primarily in the writings of John and Paul) that deal with election and God's choice that I desire to understand better. It seems that we as Adventists don't talk about these texts very much. I found the BRI article helpful, but wished it was more thorough in addressing some of the texts about election. But there was an insight that I gained while reading the article is helping me in my thinking about predestination. I see the argument about predestination and election being primary about Who chooses for humans to be saved? Is the choice God's or the individual believers? I think the answer is yes, it is both. Salvation is a relationship with Jesus Christ (John 17:3). We need salvation because we no longer have right relations with God. Salvation is the reconciling of our relationship with God. Reconciliation takes choice and action by both sides of the relationship. This is why Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5:19 " that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them". But in the very next verse He adds "we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God". God initiated the reconciliation through Jesus Christ, but we must respond and choose to be reconciled in order for the relationship to be restored. It is this truth of God's initiation of reconciliation, that is helping me to understand better some of the texts talking about predestination or election. Because of sin our relationship with God was broken and because of our sinfulness we are unable to initiate the restoration of that relationship (sin makes us enemies of God Col. 1:21). Therefore God in His mercy and love took the initiative, He took the first step, sending Jesus to become the atonement for our sins. But we must respond for the relationship to be restored. God has chosen us but now we must choose Him (Josh. 24:15). This helps me to understand texts like Joh 6:44"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day". Jesus is not saying that the Father has arbitrarily handpicked some to come to Him and be saved. He is saying no one could ever choose the Father unless the Father had not first chosen us. God made the first move, and for that we are to be every grateful. While we do have a part to play and a choice to make, salvation first and foremost is God's act. He initiates, we merely respond. Praise the Lord that He has chosen us! Praise the Lord that before I ever even had a thought of Him, "while we were still sinners, Christ died us" (Rom. 5:8). "We love Him because He first loved us" (1 Jn. 4:19).
Reed Richardi
Response (#2) to Alexander
I agree with you that Romans is both inspiring and challenging. Thank you for your reminder of God's power which is readily available to all of us. The same power which caused the resurrection brings an amazingly new life to me. I want to live in His power and not my own.
Chester Clark III
Doctrine of Salvation – Dr. Hanna
Week 2 Reflection
Romans has always been one of my favorite New Testament books, and I’m reveling in the opportunity to study it again. I agree wholeheartedly with Ellen White when she says, “Every Christian has reason to thank God for that epistle to the church at Rome.” Sketches from the Life of Paul, p. 187. Exhibiting the skill that only a few preachers and writers ever attain, Paul weaves a theological dissertation together with an appeal to the hearts of his readers calculated to lead them to accept Jesus as their personal Savior in a more than merely intellectual way.
In this second chapter, Paul addresses the spiritual satisfaction that his readers (apparently mostly Jews or Jewish converts) had as religious people. After having set forth sins that he knew they would condemn (and probably were mostly innocent of), Paul’s asserts that as church-going, Bible-believing, good-deeds-performing Christians they were no less guilty and in need of a miraculous (and undeserved) salvation! It’s as if Paul wants to shock them into a sense of their need for a Savior (reality), so that the remainder of his treatise on faith and grace and election and representation and mission will reach not only their minds but also their hearts. Instead of reading his epistle with an eye on “the world that needs to hear these things” he desires them to read it with eyes opened by the Spirit to see that these things are relevant to their hearts.
It’s a message that we dare not gloss over lightly: it’s dangerous to be religious, risky to be spiritual. It was not without cause that Jesus informed the religious leaders of His time, “Truly I say to you, that the publicans and prostitutes will enter into the kingdom of God before you.” Matthew 21:31. When externally the life is upright and the reputation is intact, it’s easy to not recognize our daily, yes, moment-by-moment need of a Savior from our sins and sinfulness. For every religious leader or adherent who is “outed” by some scandal of sexuality, power, or greed, there are perhaps thousands of professed Christians who inwardly have accepted complacency towards illicit thoughts and worldly acclimatization. How many Adventists are teaching others they should keep the commandments, while choosing a pastime of watching murder, adultery, lying, and nearly every commandment being violated on the silver screen, not even wincing when the name of Jesus is taken in vain by the hero (or villain)? Is there that much difference, in the sight of God, between committing sinful acts and having “pleasure in them that do them”? Romans 1:32.
As Adventists we’re clearly not immune to this danger that Paul seems to be pointing out. It’s not hard for us to find reasons to feel better than the “heathen” world around us. Maybe it’s our “commandment keeping” one day a week. Perhaps it’s our vegetarian (or even vegan) lifestyle.
Ironically, while there are legalistic Adventists who apparently find spiritual security in their lifestyle, there also seems to be plenty of Adventists who find spiritual security in the fact that they aren’t legalistic about their lifestyle. Whether we pride ourselves in the things we do, or we pride ourselves in the things we don’t do, this pride of performance or position or theology displaces the comprehension of our need for grace and becomes a system of human attainment, human merit. What we all need is more humility and a greater sense of our own unworthiness (no matter what we do or don’t do). Only then will we have more of Jesus.
I think that’s what Paul wanted to accomplish.
Chester Clark III
Doctrine of Salvation – Dr. Hanna
Week 3 Reflection
The critics of Ellen White would like us to believe that her theological teaching on salvation changed during her lifetime. I appreciate the balanced approach that Dr. Whidden takes in examining this subject. Having discussed it with him, and knowing him to be a believer in Ellen White’s prophetic gift, I appreciate his conclusion that the emphasis in her writings changed, though she was always sensitive to the balance needed between justification and sanctification. Obviously, one can err by focusing too much on loving obedience, so that subconsciously the lifestyle comes to be trusted as meritorious, as well as by focusing too much on justification by grace, so that the qualities of true faith are forgotten and the rather comfortable “cheap grace” experience is enjoyed. There’s a big difference between saying that her emphasis changed and teaching that her doctrinal position changed (or, of even greater implications, that the divine revelations changed).
Further complicating this matter is the fact that the prophetess was also a human – and her personal experience was not inspired or infallible. In other words, even after she evidenced the prophetic gift, she may have had experiences in her personal lifestyle which were out of harmony with the biblical reality of truth. As she learned truth, she grew as a person to reflect that truth, as we all must. Last week we read about her early expectations of a second blessing model of sanctification. This was an area of her personal experience where she clearly grew in understanding and practice as time went by.
Given the fact that the needs of the church changes over time, it is not surprising that the emphasis of the message also needs to change. Perhaps that is evidenced in the contrasts in the epistles of Paul, James, and John. The changes in understanding the law and salvation that would take place in the Christian church were even predicted in Revelation’s letters to the seven churches. Should it be any surprise, then, that the messages should need to be adapted to fit the times? Anyone with a pastoral heart who is genuinely seeking to bring his/her church to the balanced understanding of unmerited salvation and grace that works by love and purifies the soul will have to tweak their emphasis to the direction opposite the contemporary skew.
It’s one of the challenges I’ve had with those who insist the message of 1888 is the silver bullet that the church needs today. I agree that the message of righteousness by faith is what is needed today; what I struggle with is the assertion that the exact manner in which Jones, Waggoner, and White presented it is the manner still needed today. Let’s face it: the church has changed since then (or at least some of it has).
The power of the message of 1888 was that it was what the church needed desperately at that time. It was the biblical truth of righteousness by faith, with just the needed emphasis, impressed upon the minds of Jones and Waggoner by the Holy Spirit as they studied their Bibles and confirmed by the same Spirit through the testimony of Ellen White. The good news is that the same Spirit is still willing to impress the same truths from the same Bible on willing minds who will study it and seek for it. I’m quite confident that the same Spirit will also adapt the emphasis so that in 2010 it will be spot on the money for the situation in the church today.
But I may not get closer to this relevant balance by taking a class on the Doctrine of Salvation, or by studying and arguing the theological tenets of various scholars, or even by examining the personal spiritual journey of Ellen White. It’ll happen when I spend time on my knees, my Bible open in front of me, and my heart open to whatever God will show me, ready to follow wherever He will lead me.
And it might as well happen in each of us, while we’re taking a class on the Doctrine of Salvation. Can you think of a better time than now?
Assignment #3
I read chapter 4 of Whidden this week. I really appreciate the context he is giving me for understanding Ellen White’s positions. I especially appreciate the comments about the influence of Methodism and the holiness movements on her developing perspectives.
I’ve known for a while and been able to tell the difference between post-1888 statements of Ellen White and pre-1888 statements. I didn’t realize that so much of her developing perspective and the change in emphasis started at least five years before 1888 and was influenced by her husband. That’s surprising to me because I thought that James White did not generally have as much of an emphasis on faith as Ellen White. I recall the story of the painting, that I’m sure you are all familiar with, that James white had done which showed various things such as the sacrifices, the law, and the cross all in equal aspect. Ellen White saw it and said it needed to be changed and had a new painting commissioned with a large cross front and center and with most of the rest of the scene in the shadow of the cross.
Another part of this chapter that I found fantastic was the mention of the fallibility of Ellen White as a person and her quote:
“I wish that self should be hid in Jesus. I do not claim infallibility, or even perfection of Christian character. I am not free from mistakes and errors in my life. Had i followed my Savior more closely, I should not have to morn so much my un-likeness to His dear image.”
More and more it seems to me that that humility, that willingness to admit our mistakes and confess our sins to each other, is one of the marks of being with Jesus. It is too rare. I think it is especially rare in leadership. Sometimes I wonder if people even want leaders to be humble and confess their shortcomings. I think there is a lot of pressure to appear holy and good, but that is not how we receive the blessings of God. Of course, there is a balance here. It isn’t good to always go around talking about how much you fall short, because it is also true that God has blessed and empowered each of us in amazing ways.
Assignment #3
Though it was short, Whidden’s chapter on the personal testimonies of James and Ellen provided many thought points. Reading about how James White had a stronger emphasis on Christ and His saving power was intriguing because, though Whidden didn’t mention it, as far as I know James never believed Jesus to be God. This came from his affiliation with the Christian Connection earlier in life, and actually the early Adventist church largely considered Jesus to be the saving Messiah, but not God. This makes me wonder about the debates that have raged throughout the history of the church and whether or not many who say Jesus is God believe in Him less or put less trust in His saving grace than do some who see him as the Messiah, but not as God.
I also thought it was interesting how the chapter referenced the letter that relayed the dream Ellen White had of James after his death. It was interesting because I had heard of it before and had actually discussed it in a class in relation to the ways that people cope with death. If it weren’t for this past experience of this letter I might have read over this part without realizing the implications – Ellen White’s dead husband talked to her! But not in any spiritualistic sense, but through her memories and in a dream that was helping her through the loss. Many people who suffer loss experience something similar to this where the dead loved one talks to them in a dream and it can be a part of the grieving process working towards healing. I wonder if Ellen White’s focus on God’s love and grace after this time may have been influenced by a new reliance and hope upon Him, looking forward to a time when she would be reunited with her husband. Also, she may have gained a new perspective on what is really important in life which may have led to a great appreciation for Christ and less of an emphasis on what we humans do. Though this is all just conjecture, it is interesting to think about.
In this chapter I noticed a couple of very clear quotes from the pen of Ellen White that stuck out to me. “I do not claim infallibility” and “no one is perfect.” It is a sign of her character that she was humble and saw that she was human like the rest of us. It seems like it is often those who claim they are perfect who are furthest from perfection.
Response to Alicia
I appreciated how you connected the picture with the information about Jame's White in this chapter. I had not thought of it when reading and found your comment helpful.
Also, I thought that what you said about leadership was quite insightful. It seems that there is a trend towards putting more import upon a leaders confidence than their humility. Ellen White never seemed to push for more power, and often seemed to try to step aside when people started putting too much authority upon her.
Assignment 2
“A ruthless attack on Judaizers.” This is how I might title Romans 2.
The English idom comes to mind: The bigger they are, the harder they fall. As I read and re-read Romans 2, I found it hard not to cringe a little bit at the rebuke Paul issues here to those “who pass judgment on someone else.” Apparently, some self-righteous and prideful Jews in Rome are advocating the superiority of circumcised Jews who “have the law.” Paul’s response, especially in vv. 12-16, really stuck out to me. He says, “All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.” In other words, sin leads to judgment and destruction, regardless of whether you specifically had a “law” or not. But those who know that something is sin and still do it have also incurred judgment upon themselves. Sin has natural consequences for everyone, but it also has legal consequences for those who have the law. Simply having the law doesn’t make a person superior. This is what he says in v. 13, “It is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.”
Then Paul says, “Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts.” In v. 27 he says, “The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.”
How can these Gentiles, who do not have the law, and yet obey its principles, be compared to those who do have the law, and yet transgress it? Aren’t we who have more light and yet transgress worse off than those who have relatively little light, and yet live up to it? These Gentiles, Paul says, become their own law by listening to their consciences. “They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts.” This is New Covenant language! The promise of the New Covenant is that God will write the law on our hearts. If we are partaking of the New Covenant, we will “do by nature the things required by the law.” In this sense, these Gentiles are miles ahead, spiritually, of the Jews Paul is addressing here. He says, “You are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, and instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth…” (vv. 19-20). Yet clearly these self-righteous individuals are stuck in an Old Covenant experience, and need to be taught by the Gentiles!
These words should bring shame to anyone who has ever looked down on a sinner—a gentile, non-Adventist, non-Christian, whomever. The lesson I take from this chapter is that the only way to not be hypocritical and self-righteous is to humble myself before God, not thinking myself any better than any other sinner out there. All of us have sinned. If I am blessed with any more light than someone else, I only have that much more responsibility. My inherent goodness is not increased in God’s eyes.
“A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God” (vv. 28-29).
Response to Chester Clark III, Assignment 2
Chester, thank you for the thoughtful and piercing reflection on Romans 2. I especially resound with your concluding paragraph. Whether we harbor self-satisfaction in the good things we do (Sabbath-keeping, spiritual disciplines, or diet come to mind), or the things we don’t do (legalistic law orientation), we still need an about-face in our walk with Christ. It seems that a proper orientation to law and grace must produce an abundant level of authentic humility!
assignment 1
I have appreciated the challenges our professor has set before us in regards to the vast expanse of salvation. Before this class, I felt I had a somewhat clear understanding of salvation. After just a couple of classes now, it is obvious I am a mere babe! I look forward to expanding my breath and depth of knowledge and understanding upon the subject.
This summer I had been committing Romans chapter 1 to memory. It has to me a most precious chapter of Scripture. Yet, in my memorizing and reading I had not discovered the beauty and clarity as I have through what I have already learned in this class.
Verse 14 has become a precious verse to me…Paul sees his sense of obligation so great that he calls himself a debtor to the Greeks, Barbarians, the wise and unwise. How many of us have been in debt? I know I have. In fact, I’ve been in extensive debt, yet in each case I have been a debtor only to those whom I owe money. Yet Paul goes beyond that. He does not say that he is indebted to Christ, but to those who do not know Christ. This is amazing! The gospel truly transforms! How then could Paul make this statement? I believe the answer lies in verse 16 and 17 where Paul makes an unforgettable declaration…I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, “The just shall live by faith. What a testimony!
In reading Ellen White on Salvation, I was very intrigued by chapter 2. I was reminded of the influential power that example and experiences have upon all, especially the youth. And Ellen White was no different. Her experience of growing up in a Methodist home certainly shaped her view of God. And through a series of several experiences during her early teenage years, she came to embrace a relationship with Jesus Christ. The Methodist “second blessing” experience, The Buxton camp meeting, William Miller’s messages, and Levi Stockman’s comforting words greatly impacted her Christian journey and would lay the foundation for her as a Christian leader.
I also read “Justification by Faith: An Adventist Understanding” by Peter van Bemmelen. It was a refreshing read. He clearly showed the Old Testament foundation for justification by faith as taught in the New Testament. I appreciated his extensive “here a little, there a little” scattering of the “justification by faith” theme interspersed throughout the OT. His contrast of all being “unrighteous,” yet many being referred to as “righteous” was uplifting (p.3). I appreciated the way he handled a couple of individuals who refer to Seventh-day Adventists as a cult because of Sabbath-keeping. I admired his approach because he did not defend as an Adventist. He shared a section of the Second Helvetic Confession of 1566 and let it speak as the Reformers declared that stance upon the law of God (p.8). He then strings several passages of Scripture to show the law’s role for the Christian who is justified by faith. It was hard to believe the part about Francis Beckwith, the former president of the Evangelical Theological Society who rejoined the Roman Catholic Church (p.10) where “good works” are meritorious. He rejoined because he “found the Protestant view, which assumes that sanctification follows justification, inadequate.” Overall, I was greatly blessed by the reading.
assignment 1
I have appreciated the challenges our professor has set before us in regards to the vast expanse of salvation. Before this class, I felt I had a somewhat clear understanding of salvation. After just a couple of classes now, it is obvious I am a mere babe! I look forward to expanding my breath and depth of knowledge and understanding upon the subject.
This summer I had been committing Romans chapter 1 to memory. It has to me a most precious chapter of Scripture. Yet, in my memorizing and reading I had not discovered the beauty and clarity as I have through what I have already learned in this class.
Verse 14 has become a precious verse to me…Paul sees his sense of obligation so great that he calls himself a debtor to the Greeks, Barbarians, the wise and unwise. How many of us have been in debt? I know I have. In fact, I’ve been in extensive debt, yet in each case I have been a debtor only to those whom I owe money. Yet Paul goes beyond that. He does not say that he is indebted to Christ, but to those who do not know Christ. This is amazing! The gospel truly transforms!
How then could Paul make this statement? I believe the answer lies in verse 16 and 17 where Paul makes an unforgettable declaration…I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, “The just shall live by faith. What a testimony!
In reading Ellen White on Salvation, I was very intrigued by chapter 2. I was reminded of the influential power that example and experiences have upon all, especially the youth. And Ellen White was no different. Her experience of growing up in a Methodist home certainly shaped her view of God. And through a series of several experiences during her early teenage years, she came to embrace a relationship with Jesus Christ. The Methodist “second blessing” experience, The Buxton camp meeting, William Miller’s messages, and Levi Stockman’s comforting words greatly impacted her Christian journey and would lay the foundation for her as a Christian leader.
Response to Nick Clark
Assignment #1
Thanks for your comments. I have appreciated that passage (Rom 1:16) for some time, but no two people have the same perspective.
We are to be bold and courageous. Your words reminded me of what EW wrote in SC..."No sooner does one come to Christ than there is born in his heart a desire to make known to others what a precious friend he has found in Jesus; the saving and sanctifying truth cannot be shut up in his heart. (p.78)
So I ask myself, "Am I still coming to Christ or did it only happen once?"
My prayer will continue to be,"God grant me the desire to keep coming to Jesus and open up opportunities where I can share you today."
Thank again
Assignment #2
My thoughts this week are on Romans Chapter 2. I have always found Romans chapter 2 to be a very a very interesting chapter. This is mainly because of what it says about the importance of what is in your heart and whether or not you are following that. I have always found this somewhat comforting but at the same time I have some questions. I find it comforting for the fact that it talks about those who 'do not have the law' yet still keep the law because it is written on their hearts. I have many family members who are not Christians (yet?) yet who are what you would call 'good people'. Their lives are upright and moral and what I would consider as 'law abiding' yet they do not pet say 'believe in Christ'. When I read this chapter it gives me hope because I think that because they are leading good lives they are are following the law that is written in their hearts, and that when the time comes for them to choose to follow Christ or not, it will be an easier decision for them because in a sense they have already been following Him. Thus I find comfort in the idea that "a true Jew is not one who is circumsized in the flesh, but in the heart", or is it safe to say "a true Adventist is not one who follows all of the rules, but who is doing the right thing in their heart"?
The questions that arise from such comfort involve the idea of preaching the gospel and the necessity of it. I know it was briefly mentioned in class by the professor, but the main question is, if everyone will be judged by what they are already doing in their lives why do we need to preach the gospel to them? I am looking forward to this discussion in class as I feel strongly that I must preach the gospel, and that the rest of the Scripture is plain in this commission, however this chapter raises a few questions.
Chester Clark III
Response to comments by Alexander (9/9/2010)
I really appreciated your comments about the power of God. Sometimes we seem to be more expressive about the power of the enemy – of temptation, sin, and the world. But if we can only fix our eyes on the power of Jesus, and remember that greater is He that is in us than he that is in the world, we will indeed find that power more than sufficient for every day, no matter what it brings.
I also appreciated your connecting the appreciation of God’s power with the boldness of sharing. Often, when doing door-to-door work or even preaching in a friendly pulpit, I’ve realized that if we actually comprehended how incredibly good what we have is, we’d be a whole lot more bold and animated in sharing it!
Thank you for your comments.
Assignment # 2
Last week I've read the article by A.M. Rodriguez Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs. I can relate to his frustration about vague understanding and interpretation of the “in Adam/ in Christ” concept. It is quite difficult to avoid trans-physical, mystical component of interpretation if the Greek phrases "in Christ/ in Adam" are translated as Local Dative of Sphere, which indicates “the sphere or realm in which the word to which it is related take place or exists.”
It seems that tradition to translate "in Christ" as dative of sphere probably make the most sense in the context of catholic theology of salvation, which solely depends on the particular realm where salvation is made effective. There is no salvation outside of that sphere. So, practically the Pauline concept “in Christ” in catholic tradition may be interpreted as another way of saying “in church,” which is the body of Christ, the distributor of God’s grace.
Rodriguez makes very definite statement: “The concreteness and individuality of a human being makes it impossible for him or her to exist or be present in any form or shape in another human being.” So, I wasn’t present in Adam when he sinned, neither I was in Christ on the cross. The article makes clear what “in Christ/in Adam” is not.
Some New Testament scholars believe that behind Paul’s concept “in Christ” lies the idea of the Divine covenant. Here “in Christ” indicates the new sphere of the covenant, which counterpoises the exclusiveness of the old realm “in Judaism.” This approach fits very well Paul’s polemic with Galatians.
Does it mean than that “in Adam” in Romans refers to the divine-human covenantal relationships significantly affected by Adam’s sin? Does the concept “in Adam” signify a state of broken covenant or “outside-of-covenant” condition of humanity?
Rodriguez offers an explanation of Pauline’s “in Christ”: “Because the believer is united with the living Lord through the indwelling of His Spirit, he or she is made a part of the saving events of Christ's death and resurrection and included in the body of Christ, the Church. As a result, the believer personally receives all the blessings of salvation that flow from Christ and exist in the fellowship of believers."
Can we say that the state of humanity described as “in Adam” signifies a condition, where humans do not have the unity with the living God, i.e. the indwelling of the Spirit (an old nature, sinful flash), where “in Christ” points to the new creation, human nature that is according to the Spirit? “If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His… For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.” (Rom 8:9,14)
It seams like the concepts “in Adam/in Christ” combine the aspect of status (sonship, belonging to the church, people of the covenant), and the nature (old nature according to flash in Adam and new creature in Christ according to the Spirit).
@ Jason A. O'Rourke
Thank you for sharing. I’ve never thought about our sonship this way: “As the image of God we were created to call God master because he is the creator of all life; because of Christ we are now saved to call God father, as legitimate children.”
It makes a world of difference to know that we are relate to God not only by right of creation, but also by right of the adaptation into the divine family. We not only are His image, icon, reflection, but also are the partakers of His nature (2 Pet 1:4) and all been made to drink into one Spirit (1Cor 12:13). Wow!
Assignment 2
Romans chapter 2 absolutely levels the playing field. Why? It is because God shows no partiality. He is not a respecter of persons! He is not swayed by a bribe. He is not deceived by kiss. He is not enticed with tears. He is not lured by legalistic obedience or the liberal lack thereof. He is not convinced because of intellectual capability. He is interested in hearing one thing and one thing only...the heart.
Paul makes this point so plain in this chapter that it cannot be missed. When I became a Christian ten years ago, this chapter thrilled my soul and after reading it for this class, I am actually more thrilled. I think (better yet I know) it’s because I see myself as a greater sinner than I was back then. But there is more. I also see Him in greater hues of love and mercy. Again, he is listening to my heartbeat. Does it beat in tune with His? I’m reminded of some precious words in Steps to Christ.
By what means, then, shall we determine whose side we are on? Who has the heart? With whom are our thoughts? Of whom do we love to converse? Who has our warmest affections and our best energies? If we are Christ’s, our thoughts are with Him, and our sweetest thoughts are of Him. SC 58
I believe this is Paul’s point. Who cares about your outward show? You may be a teacher. You may be a preacher. You may boast of the law, but you are actually missing the mark! God could care less about your outward accomplishments. God could care less about your physical circumcision. What matters most is your circumcision of the heart.
Now Paul does write in this chapter of the importance of being “doers” of the law. The NIV reads, “those who obey the law.” (2:13) In fact, he goes so far as to say that they are justified (in other words, pardoned/declared righteous) on that basis. This is amazing! How can that be when the Bible very clearly states we are saved by grace? I believe it is a case of obedience that does “earn” the right to be pardoned. But rather obedience as the “evidence” that one has been pardoned. But let it not be forgotten that what matters most with God is not the action itself, but the motive which prompts the action. To put it simply, it’s not what you do. It’s why do you do what you do. May we not reject the new heart we’ve been given.
@ Reed Richardi
Thanks for sharing your insight on predestination.
In context of relationship this heavy scary concept become the inspiration of freedom, not the threat.
Obviously “reconciliation takes choice and action by both sides of the relationship.”
So, what Paul was trying to convey with predestination, John expressed in other way, saying: “We love Him because He first loved us.” Never thought of predestination this way. It's so cool! Thanks!
Alexander Rybachek
Comment on Ryan Kilgore's First Assignment
I knew people so perfect for heaven that there was not earthly use of them. The perfection without sin is their conviction. All around are sinners thou. I do not know whether these people have ever healthy feed back, but it would be very interesting to listen about their perfection from their families.
Ellen White is very ballanced in writing her position. I see that some may use her writing for thier unballanced ideas, but those who are genuinely looking for the truth will find it first in Scripture and second in her writings. She was not perfect in sense of sinlessness, but she was perfect as an instrument of God.
RESPONSE TO Ryan Kilgore said...
Assignment 1
I had the same experience in my ministry in BRazil. I was in a nominating committee and one of my elders said he had not sinned for 3 days and he asked me what I thought about that. one of the other elders commented that if you were without a sin for 3 days why didn't you continue without sin?. I said to the elder who posted that strange comment: We are born sinners so we sin, not that we are born pure and then we sin. It took care of business for the moment but that was not the last time I heard such statement, I think there are still some perfectionists in our midst. People who come froward or not that believe that it is possible to live a sinless life in this world, which is , as you shared in the answer of that pastor , it is contrary to bible teaching. I know that sin is an accident in the life of the new born in Christ but it is still there. The only different in my opinion, is that now sin hurts us too not only Christ.
Response to Michael Jones Assignment 2
It couldn't be enough no matter how many times we say that we are sinners saved by His grace. I like Michael quoting 'If we are Christ's, our thoughts are with Him, and our sweetest thoughts are of Him'. How wonderful it is! In fact we can find our greatest joy in becoming more like Jesus. If Jesus' joy becomes mine and that's how we should be.
Assignment 3
Angel Manuel Rodrigues’s article ‘Christ Saved the Human Race’ throws a question which I did not see before in regards of E. G. White sayings of saving the world. Jesus’ work of saving the world through paying what the law requires for fallen human race is important because it actually gives all human race an opportunity to accept to be on Jesus’ side. Any Christian who sees how Jesus draws sinners to him to save can follow the logic of salvation. It is simple. Jesus died for us and we have his redemptive work on the Cross. So, all we have to do is to choose to be on Jesus’ side. However, aside the mystery of salvation concerning how Jesus as divine being substituted himself for fallen human race, there is one big inner struggle which has been a real head scratcher. I’m still trying to somehow connect the concept of being born again to have eternal life to the concept of becoming righteous through Jesus’ righteous act. To be born again means to have eternal life and accept what Jesus has done for us on the Cross. Therefore if we want to have eternal life we must believe in Jesus’ righteous act. Wait a minute! We are all descendants of Adam and Eve who sinned in the first place and because of that we are considered sinners not because we chose to be sinners but because we are born to be sinners. Sometimes I think that it is only fair if Jesus’ righteous work saves all humanity no matter what just as we are born in this world without being asked. If we take this real seriously what does it mean when Jesus says that we must be born again to have eternal life? What doesn’t Jesus’ righteous work automatically save sinners as Adam’s sin did to all human race?
Why do we need to exercise faith in order to be saved?
‘This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus’.
Romans 3:22-24
But Paul uses this stream of thoughts everywhere in his letters. I certainly do not believe in universalism in terms of salvation for all through Jesus’ righteous act because other parts of the Bible do not support such theory. I understand that we need to exercise our faith in order to take Jesus’ righteous work as ours. For those who are not following what I try to say, here’s the simple sentence for you. When Adam fell into sin, all who are in Adam automatically are regarded sinners no matter what whereas when Jesus overcame sin those who accept Jesus as their savior can only be saved. There was no condition to be a sinner for descendants of Adam but there is condition to be saved in Jesus Christ. Is it fair? Is it just? Maybe I have to look at my struggle from another angle, which brings the concept of flesh and spirit in regards to salvation. John the apostle says in John 6:63, ‘The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing’. I have to admit that the process of falling into sin and the process of saving fallen sinners are different. Falling into sin was associated with human flesh which was about ‘the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does’. God had to use spiritual method to give back life to us. This is how it helps me to understand my initial question above.
Assignment 1
In reflecting on this first chapter in the book of Romans I cannot help but focus on the 16th and 17th verses. And when I do, I recall the words from a sermon I heard on the subject dealing with the power of the Gospel which proposed that God could have revealed his power against sin any way he wanted to, one such way could have been to wipe men from the face of the earth. However it was a blessing to notice that, even though the Lord could have exercised His power of wrath and judgment He instead chose to exercise His power in sending mankind the Gospel of grace through the death of His son. Which, to me, brings up very interesting point about God, that is, could God have saved man in a different way or was the death of His son His only option. At face value most Christians agree that God possesses the ability to choose while at the same time being omnipotent; and in class most of us agree that just because God has the ability to do anything does not mean he does everything, but that he operates within the framework of his character. Therefore, being able to do anything, God chooses to limit himself. But that still does not rule out the possibility that because God can do anything, whether it is within what his character would allow or not, he could have chosen to save us in an easier less sacrificial way than he did.
John Coaxum
Assignment #2
Whidden presented a quote in chapter three that intrigued me. Ellen White says that salvation “by” obedience to the law is impossible, but salvation “without” the law is impossible as well (p. 25). Simply put, by our obedience to the law is not enough to gain our salvation. Even if we could somehow by strict adherence keep the law it would still not merit us being saved, without the sacrifice of Christ on our behalf and our acceptance of it. However on the other hand the law is the perfect standard of truth and we will be judged by it. As Whidden portrayed in this chapter, Ellen herself had to correct a brother who that that obedience to the law was all that humanity needed. She had to inform him that when a man or woman has accepted Christ they are being converted from the transgression of God’s law to the accepting of it. The law is simply a measuring stick or better yet a mirror that simply shows us who we really are and how different we are from God, but it by no means cleanses or changes us more into His image. It is through Christ that we come to knowledge of repentance and sin in the first place and then as Christ imbues our hearts day by day we see His law as perfect a transcript of His character and we realize that that is what we should be sriving for as oppose to our own way of doing things. So in the end (as I believe Dr. Hanna alluded to) the law judges us, but it is Christ who saves us.
Now Romans chapter 2 is interesting to me as well. Because in v. 25 Paul says circumsion is only profitable if you keep the law. And sometimes I can understand when people even mistake the Bible for strict legalism. For at some points to the person who simply glances at a text without context or proper exegesis it can seem that Obedience to the law cannot be substituted for anything else and is primary. But Paul goes on and speaks about keeping the law inwardly vs. outwardly. Outwardly in my mind must be the “fanaticism” that Ellen White faced before 1888. But inwardly, to me, seems to convey at the very least an understanding that God’s law, His character, His way is the true way. Although perfection is seemingly impossible for man now, it should not negate the effort to strive for it through Christ. Paul ends by saying: “No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God” (Romans 2:29).
Response to Michael Jones Assignment #1
Mike, I really appreciate your posting. And I too enjoyed reading Romans chapter two and am thankful that God values the heart above all but not at the exclusion of the head and the hands. When You mentioned that God is no respecter of persons it brought back a familiar thought in my mind. Is God really not a respecter of persons? Because sometimes when I think about it, it seems as though God deals with everyone differently. According to where they are, and what situation in life. And just to confuse matters I think 1 Corinthians 10:13 seems to cloud the issue even more. Because it seems to imply that God weighs each circumstance before He gives it to us to see if we can bear it. I think ill write about it in another posting. But again thanks for your insight.
Assignment 2
In reading Ellen White on salvation, one section that really caught my attention was the Methodist church teaching of “second blessing”. One of the indicators of being in this state is where the believer is not conscious of any wrong. Therefore, it is safe to assume that the person is living up to all the revealed light they have received. Later on in the chapter’s holiness perfectionist fanatics misconstrued holiness with self-righteous claims of perfection. But what does it mean as we reflect on our understanding of perfection? It is clear that Ellen White teaches progressive perfection, or as the believer grows in a deeper knowledge and understanding of the word of God structures his or her life in harmony with those teachings. However, is it possible to not be conscious of any wrong? To live a life, in the here and now, where there is no recollection of any sinful thought or action. Is it possible to achieve that state of perfection? It is understood that the closer you get to Christ, the more sinful you appear before Him in light of His holiness. What is the sin you seen in yourself? Is it the sinful nature you can do nothing about (Ps 51:5), or overt acts of sin that you choose to commit. It is my personal belief that it is possible, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, to choose not to commit any overt act of sin while still struggling with a natural predisposition to sin.
@ Youngkyo Suh
I appreciated your thinking on the topic of salvation and your question, if we are automatically sons of Adam, why aren't we automatically sons of Jesus. We never chose to be lost, yet we have to choose to be saved. I never thought about it that way before.
Here are my thoughts on the issue; maybe it's just the way it has to work. We can't be regenerated by God without our consent. We are in the opposite position of Adam and Eve, who could not be corrupted without their consent. Maybe it isn't about fairness at all, just reality. It is painful to think that we, of all the beings in the universe, were born to sin (however you imagine that process playing itself out). Yet if we choose to live in God, we are honored above all other creatures in the universe because we get to experience Grace. God has found away to bring us from sons and daughters of Adam to sons and daughters of God.
Assignment #2
The book of Romans uses very special terminology, - “Gospel” for the salvation. This new terminology was used in order to explain the original concept of salvation which has been given to ancient Israelites. Therefore Paul wants to give the correct understanding and concept of salvation found in Jesus which relates back to the first covenant that is rooted in God’s promise. The purpose of this research is to define the role, function, and their relationship between Gospel and Covenant. Thus one may understand that they are evitable facts for further understanding of Salvation.
SECOND WEEK REFLECTION ON ROMANS CHAPTER TWO
Verse 1.Whenever we find ourselves justifiably angry about some one’s sin we should be careful. We need to speak out against sin but we must do so in a spirit of humility. We should not judge others. God is the only judge.
Verse12-16-People are not condemned of what they don’t know, but for what they know .Those who know the Word of God and His law will be judged by them. Those who have never seen a Bible still know right from wrong and they will be judged because they did not keep even those standards which their own conscience dictated.
God is the one who will judge all people according to His gospel. We should not judge others because we are all sinners. In criticizing others we will be passing a sentence up on ourselves for we show that we are the participants with the accuser of our brethren!
FIRST WEEK .DOCTRINE OF SALVATION-1
REFLECTIONS ON ROMANS 1.
Paul says those who become Christians are invited by Jesus to be holy people and to become members of God’s family .In verse 16-Paul says, that he was not ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ because it was the massage of salvation. It had a life changing power .Thus the gospel is the power of God into salvation. Salvation is not about what we should do in order to be saved but it is about what God did for our salvation.
The gospel shows us both how the righteous God is in His plan for us to saved, and how we may be made fit for eternal life. By trusting Christ our relationship with God is made right. The truth of the gospel is the truth of scripture .The gospel which is the power to save us is the gospel of the Father, Son, and of the Holy Spirit to us; this gospel is Christ centered Rom.1:3, 4..His power to save us is manifested at His birth and at His resurrection from the dead. His power to save us is being manifested in the person of Jesus Christ.
He became a man, and He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death and through His power He was able to resurrect from the dead.
Thus now, the gospel which is preaching is our gospel also because we have been called by God to preach the gospel the same as he was been called to preach.
THIRD WEEK REFLECTIONS ON ROMANS CHAPTER THREE
Every one is valuable before God because we were created in His likeness and in His image. Although we are valuable before God, we are all fallen into sin.
Verses 9, 10-Therre is no even one who righteous before God; all have sinned and have come short of God’s glory. No even one is righteous, but God through Jesus His Son, has redeemed us and offers forgiveness for us if we return to Him with sincere repentance.
Verse20,-31-These verses shows the functions of the laws. The law shows us where we are wrong, we know that we are helpless sinners and we must go to Christ for Mercy; the law serves as guide to our actions by holding up God’s moral standards. It is a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ, but it can not save us. We don’t earn salvation by keeping the law (no one can keep the law perfectly except Christ who kept it perfectly) but we do please God when our lives conform to His revealed will.
The laws works as a mirror to shows our dirtness, and when we go to Jesus He washes and cleanses us. Thus we are justified freely by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Being justified by grace it doesn’t mean that we don’t keep the law, but we establish it; because if we love God and truly His love is in us we will automatically keep the law not because we want to be served but because Jesus Christ who is in controlling our lives has already served us. We will be covered by his righteousness, our lives will reflect his life, and because He Himself did not break his own law, we will also not break His law. We will be doers of the law and we will be obedient to him because obedience and faith goes together.
LEFLECTION ON READING REPORT : assignment one!
BY ELIAS MISUNGWI ID 145158
NAME OF THE BOOK: UNDERSTANDING THE SCRIPTURE CHAPTER 1
HISTORICAL BACKGROUNDS OF ADVENTIST BIBLICAL INTERPRETATION:
Why hermeneutics is important in biblical interpretation?
The reason as to why we should study hermeneutics is because we want to get the real truth as it was intended to reach us, “to get real meanings of the passages/scriptures.”
Throughout the ages in the ancient times the inspired word of God has been encountering many challenges from pagan cultures, cultural traditions ecclesiastical authority, and personal experiences.
During the Jewish religion in the captivity of Babylon in 6TH century BC, the Israelites forgot the laws of God and the warnings of the prophets. They started defining Gods word according to their traditions, they placed extra biblical rules which overloaded and overshadowed some of the basic teachings of the scriptures. Matt 15:5-9.
But geographical, culture and religious factors within Judaism helped to develop three major approaches of scriptures namely: Rabbinic Judaism –promoting obedience to mosaic laws and Hebrew Scriptures for protecting Jewish tradition against Greco-Roman culture; Hellenistic Judaism –adopted allegorical interpretations of the scriptures to accommodate its beliefs to the platonic expression of the Greece philosophy; The ascetic Qumran community, a community which interpreted the fulfillment of the Old Testaments.
Thus Christianity was born within the context of the Rabbinic, and Hellenistic Judaism before facing greater challenges of paganism, that characterized most of Roman Empire. During the medieval church Christ and his followers broke the limits of the current Judaism by emphasizing the authority of the scriptures over all sources or religious knowledge, matt 5:18.christ opposed the rabbinical traditions and external rituals, as traditions and cultural accommodations of the word of God which would nullify its sanctifying power matt 15:6; 23:1-38; John17:6-23, even the Hellenistic Jews did their own beliefs.
In fact , during the period of Jesus even the time later , people have been interpreting the scriptures the way how their feel so as to fit their culture, traditions and their pre understanding ,hence the scriptures has lost its real meaning and it has now become the source of confusion to people by misunderstanding God.
Different people throughout the ages have been trying to retain the worthiness of the scriptures by learning the fundamentals of interpreting the word of God,”that’s biblical hermeneutics. The proper principle of interpreting scriptures is called SOLA SRIPTURA, TOTA SCRIPTURA, and PRIMA SCRIPTURA, meaning scripture alone all scripture, and scripture first.
We as Seventh-day Adventist church accept the Bible as our only Creed and we hold the fundamental beliefs to our teachings of the scripture. These fundamental beliefs express our Biblical hermeneutics on what we believe. Those beliefs are Christ centered .I believe on the sola tota, prima as the church believes too
Brian Baierl
Assignment #2
I read through Romans chapter 2. I came across the verse we had a discussion in class on the Gospel judgment. I was confused on the way it was used in class. In the version I was using, New American Standard Bible, the concept of Gospel Judgment really did not make sense. The NASB version puts the text , "according to my gospel" in a set of commas. So as I read it there it seemed odd to say the Gospel judges. When I read Romans 2 this time I read it from a New Testament translated from Aramaic. This version states the text as "In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men according to my gospel by Jesus Christ." In this version it make it clear. There is a possible judgment by the Gospel if read in this version. I feel as though it is not a bad idea or wrong to see the gospel in judgment. I do sense the rest of the chapter is on the law as a judgment. I believe that the law judges and in the view of judgment the gospel slides in to view. I deal with analogies so here is one of them. It is like a camera that has interchangeable lenses. There is a view you see in the view finder of the object. The lens at the end has an adaptation for what is called a filter. The filter changes the view of the object or scenery. There are such filters that take out the haze of the clouds. The law sees us as condemned, but when we accept the Gospel with Jesus as our Savior the law sees Jesus. Paul in Romans chapter 2 is conveying that it is from God in the end where the true salvation comes from and where praise is to be given.
Reflections on Romans 2
As I read this chapter several points caught my attention. First, God’s judgment is Righteous; Second, God’s judgment is impartial; and Third, God’s judgment is concerned with the heart. The first one is extremely important because and is the basis for Paul’s entire argument because it demonstrates that God is a Righteous Judge. This point struck me personally because it contrasted the righteous judgment of God against the unrighteous judgment of man. Whereas man condemns his fellow man for his wrong doing God extends his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering, which leads to repentance so they might be saved. I found this to be extremely profound and deeply personal. It demonstrates the difference between the creature and the Creator. The creature simply turns to the other creature and attempts to evaluate him and judge him based on his own fallible standard of righteousness. But God the Creator of all creatures looks to his creatures with love and compassion and seeks to reconcile them to Himself. There have been times when I’ve been really amazed by the way someone treats another human being when they themselves have done the very same thing in the past. Particularly in the church you find this problem occurring way too often. A member of the church who has been in the church for a longtime brings accuses a new member of the church of behaving in appropriately. The same member who is accusing the new member was previously involved in equally inappropriate behavior at an earlier time period in their Christian experience. Yet they easily overlook their own faults and even their past from before becoming a Christian and immediately bring accusation against another member. Maybe you’ve never seen this before, but it seems like the main headline in every church I visit, criticisms and accusations rather than encouragement and compliments. It’s good to know then that God is an impartial judge who will judge all according to the truth of His word. It’s good to know that while man looks on the outward appearance God still looks in at the heart. And it’s good to know that “In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ,” He does it according to the Good News of the Gospel (Rom. 2:16).
Kevin Solomon
Doctrine of Salvation
Assignment II
The article on the “Analysis of the Doctrine of Legal Justification” is a response to 1888 Study Committee which postulates that God accomplished legal unconditional justification for all men. Though they do not claim universal salvation, the MSC argue that belief demonstrates God loving initiative to save all men and that such an apprehension of God’s loving act produces devotion and saving faith in man. This article really got my attention. The concept of universal objective salvation is something I seriously wrestled with while studying for my undergrad. During this time I was sought to grasp the conception of salvation. After a time, I reach a sort of epiphany and came to realize that through Christ God actually accomplished salvation for everyone at the cross. Though I did not believe that men were universally saved, I subscribed to aspects of the teaching of the 1888 Study Committee. The reading has made some legitimate points but has also caused questions to resurface about this important topic. I leave the reading with a more sincere desire to seek to discover for myself again what the bible has to say on the topic of Legal Universal Justification.
Secondly, my reflection of Romans chapter two led me to see my need for the righteousness of Christ. Though may say I don’t resemble the pagans who have rejected the truth about God in nature and as a result have been given over to my own sinful desires, and now worship the creation rather than the creator. If Paul did not get me here, when I read chapter 2 I saw how depraved my really condition is before God. For even though I may have the law of God, and I know his will regarding the doctrines and the teachings of the church, and I have been taught the present truths for this time , I fear that my condition now may fair no better than the conditions of the Jews in Paul’s time. Though I may have the truth and live up to the commandments outwardly, there is the danger of been uncircumcised inwardly, though I have the letter, I may neglect the spirit. Thus though I may posses certain things that mark my Adventism I can miss the essentials that make be Christian. As Paul made clear, the demand of being a true Christian Adventist can be so much more than I have made it, or have been taught it should me. As Paul wrote, “For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that with is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart by the Spirit, not the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. And though there is much advantage in been a Jew as Paul charged, Jews and Gentiles alike are under sin. How great of a need do I have Oh Lord, for thee.
Mickens
Correction: "it is the basis"
Peace!
Kevin Solomon
Doctrine of Salvation
Assignment II
The article on the “Analysis of the Doctrine of Legal Justification” is a response to 1888 Study Committee which postulates that God accomplished legal unconditional justification for all men. Though they do not claim universal salvation, the MSC argue that belief demonstrates God loving initiative to save all men and that such an apprehension of God’s loving act produces devotion and saving faith in man. This article really got my attention. The concept of universal objective salvation is something I seriously wrestled with while studying for my undergrad. During this time I was sought to grasp the conception of salvation. After a time, I reach a sort of epiphany and came to realize that through Christ God actually accomplished salvation for everyone at the cross. Though I did not believe that men were universally saved, I subscribed to aspects of the teaching of the 1888 Study Committee. The reading has made some legitimate points but has also caused questions to resurface about this important topic. I leave the reading with a more sincere desire to seek to discover for myself again what the bible has to say on the topic of Legal Universal Justification.
Secondly, my reflection of Romans chapter two led me to see my need for the righteousness of Christ. Though may say I don’t resemble the pagans who have rejected the truth about God in nature and as a result have been given over to my own sinful desires, and now worship the creation rather than the creator. If Paul did not get me here, when I read chapter 2 I saw how depraved my really condition is before God. For even though I may have the law of God, and I know his will regarding the doctrines and the teachings of the church, and I have been taught the present truths for this time , I fear that my condition now may fair no better than the conditions of the Jews in Paul’s time. As Paul made clear, the demand of being a true Christian Adventist can be so much more than I have made it, or have been taught it should me. As Paul wrote, “For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that with is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart by the Spirit, not the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. And though there is much advantage in been a Jew as Paul charged, Jews and Gentiles alike are under sin. How great of a need do I have Oh Lord, for thee.
Kevin Solomon
Doctrine of Salvation
Assignment II
The article on the “Analysis of the Doctrine of Legal Justification” is a response to 1888 Study Committee which postulates that God accomplished legal unconditional justification for all men. Though they do not claim universal salvation, the MSC argue that belief demonstrates God loving initiative to save all men and that such an apprehension of God’s loving act produces devotion and saving faith in man. This article really got my attention. The concept of universal objective salvation is something I seriously wrestled with while studying for my undergrad. During this time I was sought to grasp the conception of salvation. After a time, I reach a sort of epiphany and came to realize that through Christ God actually accomplished salvation for everyone at the cross. Though I did not believe that men were universally saved, I subscribed to aspects of the teaching of the 1888 Study Committee. The reading has made some legitimate points but has also caused questions to resurface about this important topic. I leave the reading with a more sincere desire to seek to discover for myself again what the bible has to say on the topic of Legal Universal Justification.
Secondly, my reflection of Romans chapter two led me to see my need for the righteousness of Christ. If Paul did not get me here, when I read chapter 2 I saw how depraved my really condition is before God. For even though I may have the law of God, and I know his will regarding the doctrines and the teachings of the church, and I have been taught the present truths for this time , I fear that my condition now may fair no better than the conditions of the Jews in Paul’s time. As Paul made clear, the demand of being a true Christian Adventist can be so much more than I have made it, or have been taught it should me. As Paul wrote, “For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that with is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart by the Spirit, not the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. And though there is much advantage in been a Jew as Paul charged, Jews and Gentiles alike are under sin. How great of a need do I have Oh Lord, for thee.
Alexander Rybachek
Doctrine of Salvation
Assignment II
We always tend to think of ourselves better than of others. The ideas that we are closer to salvation than some other people is like a self-confidence that keeps our eyes from the reality. In chapter two of the Epistle of Romans we see Paul taking any grounds for self-confidence away. Paul in previous chapter has described all the immoralities that were characteristic to the Gentiles in Pauline time. Paul condemned the sinful practices of the Gentiles and made kind of the ground for the boasting for Jews. But the very next chapter destroys any ground for Jews as well. If we condemn such practices yet do them anyway.
There is no escape. We are all sinners. We all are deprived from the holy and sinless nature of God. We are in the big hole or ditch. There is no salvation for us unless we keep the law. Those who keep the law are fine, yet in both chapters we see there is no way to keep the law by ourselves. Everybody is sinful, nobody is able to keep the law, and there is a great need in some kind of righteousness that is different in origin than human one. There is need in a person who would be able to save those lost.
Paul is a genius writer. In order to describe a real need of humanity he simply described in first two chapters of Romans the necessity of righteousness and salvation that are of Divine origin. He put under the judgment of God both groups: Jews and Gentiles. And then he presented Jesus Christ as the only way to salvation.
There is a physical state – vacuum. Vacuum is the absence of low density of air. Vacuum is usually created artificially, yet there are some natural situations that may create it. When vacuum gets in contact with normal air it absorbs it with tremendous power and strength. That is where the name of vacuum cleaner comes from. It absorbs the normal with tremendous power and strength. First two chapters of Romans are in my view serving as vacuum. They create a certain feeling for or desire for salvation and at the same time the more we desire salvation and righteousness the less we are able to get it by ourselves. Thus we have the vacuum in our souls – great desire for salvation and no ability in ourselves to obtain it. Thus the next coming statements should absorb the solution Paul presents before us. And of cause the solution will be Jesus. Paul creates a vacuum – empty space in our heart – for Jesus. There should be no sin, no boasting in self-righteousness and self-confidence. Before we receive Jesus in the complete sense of the word we need vacuum – not just empty space, but space that has a tremendous power to absorb the person of Jesus and salvation He offers.
In the life of Ellen White I see this kind of vacuum when she was convinced in her sinfulness and needed Jesus. She was lacking the assurance of salvation strongly, yet her greatest need was filled when she found that the only person who is able to help her was Jesus. We see the evolution of her understanding on the matter of salvation. The very first step was exactly like in chapters 1 and 2 of Romans. She was convinced she is sinner, she had no self-confidence, and then she accepted Jesus as the only way to salvation.
Alexander Rybachek
Doctrine of Salvation
Assignment II
We always tend to think of ourselves better than of others. The ideas that we are closer to salvation than some other people is like a self-confidence that keeps our eyes from the reality. In chapter two of the Epistle of Romans we see Paul taking any grounds for self-confidence away. Paul in previous chapter has described all the immoralities that were characteristic to the Gentiles in Pauline time. Paul condemned the sinful practices of the Gentiles and made kind of the ground for the boasting for Jews. But the very next chapter destroys any ground for Jews as well. If we condemn such practices yet do them anyway.
There is no escape. We are all sinners. We all are deprived from the holy and sinless nature of God. We are in the big hole or ditch. There is no salvation for us unless we keep the law. Those who keep the law are fine, yet in both chapters we see there is no way to keep the law by ourselves. Everybody is sinful, nobody is able to keep the law, and there is a great need in some kind of righteousness that is different in origin than human one. There is need in a person who would be able to save those lost.
Paul is a genius writer. In order to describe a real need of humanity he simply described in first two chapters of Romans the necessity of righteousness and salvation that are of Divine origin. He put under the judgment of God both groups: Jews and Gentiles. And then he presented Jesus Christ as the only way to salvation.
There is a physical state – vacuum. Vacuum is the absence of low density of air. Vacuum is usually created artificially, yet there are some natural situations that may create it. When vacuum gets in contact with normal air it absorbs it with tremendous power and strength. That is where the name of vacuum cleaner comes from. It absorbs the normal with tremendous power and strength. First two chapters of Romans are in my view serving as vacuum. They create a certain feeling for or desire for salvation and at the same time the more we desire salvation and righteousness the less we are able to get it by ourselves. Thus we have the vacuum in our souls – great desire for salvation and no ability in ourselves to obtain it. Thus the next coming statements should absorb the solution Paul presents before us. And of cause the solution will be Jesus. Paul creates a vacuum – empty space in our heart – for Jesus. There should be no sin, no boasting in self-righteousness and self-confidence. Before we receive Jesus in the complete sense of the word we need vacuum – not just empty space, but space that has a tremendous power to absorb the person of Jesus and salvation He offers.
In the life of Ellen White I see this kind of vacuum when she was convinced in her sinfulness and needed Jesus. She was lacking the assurance of salvation strongly, yet her greatest need was filled when she found that the only person who is able to help her was Jesus. We see the evolution of her understanding on the matter of salvation. The very first step was exactly like in chapters 1 and 2 of Romans. She was convinced she is sinner, she had no self-confidence, and then she accepted Jesus as the only way to salvation.
Alexander Rybachek
Doctrine of Salvation
Assignment II
We always tend to think of ourselves better than of others. The ideas that we are closer to salvation than some other people is like a self-confidence that keeps our eyes from the reality. In chapter two of the Epistle of Romans we see Paul taking any grounds for self-confidence away. Paul in previous chapter has described all the immoralities that were characteristic to the Gentiles in Pauline time. Paul condemned the sinful practices of the Gentiles and made kind of the ground for the boasting for Jews. But the very next chapter destroys any ground for Jews as well. If we condemn such practices yet do them anyway.
There is no escape. We are all sinners. We all are deprived from the holy and sinless nature of God. We are in the big hole or ditch. There is no salvation for us unless we keep the law. Those who keep the law are fine, yet in both chapters we see there is no way to keep the law by ourselves. Everybody is sinful, nobody is able to keep the law, and there is a great need in some kind of righteousness that is different in origin than human one. There is need in a person who would be able to save those lost.
Paul is a genius writer. In order to describe a real need of humanity he simply described in first two chapters of Romans the necessity of righteousness and salvation that are of Divine origin. He put under the judgment of God both groups: Jews and Gentiles. And then he presented Jesus Christ as the only way to salvation.
There is a physical state – vacuum. Vacuum is the absence of low density of air. Vacuum is usually created artificially, yet there are some natural situations that may create it. When vacuum gets in contact with normal air it absorbs it with tremendous power and strength. That is where the name of vacuum cleaner comes from. It absorbs the normal with tremendous power and strength. First two chapters of Romans are in my view serving as vacuum. They create a certain feeling for or desire for salvation and at the same time the more we desire salvation and righteousness the less we are able to get it by ourselves. Thus we have the vacuum in our souls – great desire for salvation and no ability in ourselves to obtain it. Thus the next coming statements should absorb the solution Paul presents before us. And of cause the solution will be Jesus. Paul creates a vacuum – empty space in our heart – for Jesus. There should be no sin, no boasting in self-righteousness and self-confidence. Before we receive Jesus in the complete sense of the word we need vacuum – not just empty space, but space that has a tremendous power to absorb the person of Jesus and salvation He offers.
In the life of Ellen White I see this kind of vacuum when she was convinced in her sinfulness and needed Jesus. She was lacking the assurance of salvation strongly, yet her greatest need was filled when she found that the only person who is able to help her was Jesus. We see the evolution of her understanding on the matter of salvation. The very first step was exactly like in chapters 1 and 2 of Romans. She was convinced she is sinner, she had no self-confidence, and then she accepted Jesus as the only way to salvation.
Alexander Rybachek
Doctrine of Salvation
Assignment II
We always tend to think of ourselves better than of others. The ideas that we are closer to salvation than some other people is like a self-confidence that keeps our eyes from the reality. In chapter two of the Epistle of Romans we see Paul taking any grounds for self-confidence away. Paul in previous chapter has described all the immoralities that were characteristic to the Gentiles in Pauline time. Paul condemned the sinful practices of the Gentiles and made kind of the ground for the boasting for Jews. But the very next chapter destroys any ground for Jews as well. If we condemn such practices yet do them anyway.
There is no escape. We are all sinners. We all are deprived from the holy and sinless nature of God. We are in the big hole or ditch. There is no salvation for us unless we keep the law. Those who keep the law are fine, yet in both chapters we see there is no way to keep the law by ourselves. Everybody is sinful, nobody is able to keep the law, and there is a great need in some kind of righteousness that is different in origin than human one. There is need in a person who would be able to save those lost.
Paul is a genius writer. In order to describe a real need of humanity he simply described in first two chapters of Romans the necessity of righteousness and salvation that are of Divine origin. He put under the judgment of God both groups: Jews and Gentiles. And then he presented Jesus Christ as the only way to salvation.
There is a physical state – vacuum. Vacuum is the absence of low density of air. Vacuum is usually created artificially, yet there are some natural situations that may create it. When vacuum gets in contact with normal air it absorbs it with tremendous power and strength. That is where the name of vacuum cleaner comes from. It absorbs the normal with tremendous power and strength. First two chapters of Romans are in my view serving as vacuum. They create a certain feeling for or desire for salvation and at the same time the more we desire salvation and righteousness the less we are able to get it by ourselves. Thus we have the vacuum in our souls – great desire for salvation and no ability in ourselves to obtain it. Thus the next coming statements should absorb the solution Paul presents before us. And of cause the solution will be Jesus. Paul creates a vacuum – empty space in our heart – for Jesus. There should be no sin, no boasting in self-righteousness and self-confidence. Before we receive Jesus in the complete sense of the word we need vacuum – not just empty space, but space that has a tremendous power to absorb the person of Jesus and salvation He offers.
Alexander Rybachek
Doctrine of Salvation
Assignment II
We always tend to think of ourselves better than of others. The ideas that we are closer to salvation than some other people is like a self-confidence that keeps our eyes from the reality. In chapter two of the Epistle of Romans we see Paul taking any grounds for self-confidence away. Paul in previous chapter has described all the immoralities that were characteristic to the Gentiles in Pauline time. Paul condemned the sinful practices of the Gentiles and made kind of the ground for the boasting for Jews. But the very next chapter destroys any ground for Jews as well. If we condemn such practices yet do them anyway.
There is no escape. We are all sinners. We all are deprived from the holy and sinless nature of God. We are in the big hole or ditch. There is no salvation for us unless we keep the law. Those who keep the law are fine, yet in both chapters we see there is no way to keep the law by ourselves. Everybody is sinful, nobody is able to keep the law, and there is a great need in some kind of righteousness that is different in origin than human one. There is need in a person who would be able to save those lost.
Paul is a genius writer. In order to describe a real need of humanity he simply described in first two chapters of Romans the necessity of righteousness and salvation that are of Divine origin. He put under the judgment of God both groups: Jews and Gentiles. And then he presented Jesus Christ as the only way to salvation.
There is a physical state – vacuum. Vacuum is the absence of low density of air. Vacuum is usually created artificially, yet there are some natural situations that may create it. When vacuum gets in contact with normal air it absorbs it with tremendous power and strength. That is where the name of vacuum cleaner comes from. It absorbs the normal with tremendous power and strength. First two chapters of Romans are in my view serving as vacuum. They create a certain feeling for or desire for salvation and at the same time the more we desire salvation and righteousness the less we are able to get it by ourselves. Thus we have the vacuum in our souls – great desire for salvation and no ability in ourselves to obtain it. Thus the next coming statements should absorb the solution Paul presents before us. And of cause the solution will be Jesus. Paul creates a vacuum – empty space in our heart – for Jesus. There should be no sin, no boasting in self-righteousness and self-confidence. Before we receive Jesus in the complete sense of the word we need vacuum – not just empty space, but space that has a tremendous power to absorb the person of Jesus and salvation He offers.
Chester Clark III
Response to comments by Kevin Solomon (9/15/2010)
Thank you for your thoughtful reflection on the paper regarding unconditional legal justification. What I especially appreciated about your comments was that it was based on a personal spiritual journey – not just a theoretical abstract concept you’re thinking about for a class assignment. I always find that I learn better when it’s something that I personally have grappled with – maybe because I seek more of the Spirit’s aid, rather than subconsciously reverting to treating it as a cerebral process only?
I’ve struggled with these matters as well. In this comment I can’t go into great detail, but one thing that I would suggest that may be helpful: investigate the 2 Corinthians 5:17-19 concept of “reconciliation” and see if the concept of God being reconciled to the world (universally) might lead to better terminology, whereas “justification” seems to be a term better left to describe that which takes place in cooperation with the human will (as per the sanctuary service).
Mickens
Correction: A member of the church who has been in the church for a longtime accuses a new member of the church of behaving inappropriately.
Peace!
Response to Kevin...
I was truly blessed as I read your comment. It brought even greater clarity to the discussion that we shared the other day. I really appreciate your honesty and transparency. I was really encouraged by your personal testimony and how God continues to convict you through His Spirit. I also appreciated your comments about "Universal Salvation." I've also struggled with the meaning of such concepts and have attempted to come to terms with what that means for my own personal salvation experience. Particularly this past summer I really experienced a dark night of the soul. Much of my experience centered around the topic of Salvaton. Although I've not resolved all of my questions I have experienced the peaceful assurance of God.
Peace Friend
Mike
Nick Clark
Doctrine of Salvation
Assignment #3
Romans chapter 3 is so good. I love the way that Paul is dealing with the issues and how he is presenting them. I love how in verse 7 he says, “someone might argue, ‘If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” He, as he points out himself, is using human arguments for this idea of rationalizing indulgence of sin. He then goes on to say that “now a righteousness from God, apart from law has been made known to which the Law and the Prophets testify.” Paul is presenting a balanced and holistic approach to the issue of righteousness. He is also pointing out that all Scriptures are testifying to what he is talking about. Paul is presenting a righteousness that comes by faith and saying that it is nothing new because it exactly what the Old Testament was pointing to also. It’s awesome how Paul makes it clear that he is not presenting anything new, he is just presenting the gospel and he definitely believes that it is good news.
I love how relevant Paul’s message is even to us today. That is why I appreciate the way he uses “human arguments” while presenting this balance between obedience and faith. It’s so easy sometimes to try and rationalize what we do so that we do not feel guilty for doing it and to rationalize so that we don’t have to stop what we are doing because we just don’t want to stop. And the gospel Paul is preaching is a gospel that gives us freedom. We often rationalize because we feel we will be loosing freedom in giving up that which we are trying to prove is o.k. But in reality the gospel gives a real freedom and within the freedom we find in Christ Paul simply points out that we will use that freedom to follow Christ because of our relationship with Him. Righteousness through faith is a beautiful message and I believe Paul approaches the subject in a well rounded manner giving equal attention to both sides of the issue: obedience and faith.
The other reading for the week was good as well. I like how the online dealt with the idea of how Christ has “saved the world”. It pointed out that Christ provided the way for salvation for us and we still have to accept it for it to be ours. Just like a gift, I have to be able to receive it in order for me to enjoy the benefits of that gift. Until I receive and accept it the gift will do nothing for me. Which is interesting because, to me anyway, accepting a gift can sometimes be harder than giving one. But it’s amazing that God offers us this beautiful gift without making us feel guilty at all for taking it. He does it out of love and because of His love all we can do is respond with thankfulness and go out and tell others where to find this wonderful gift that we have found. Like I have heard it said before, “Christianity is just one beggar showing another beggar where to find bread.” God has provided salvation to all the world, we just need to accept it by turning to Him, but one cannot accept this gift without being told about Christ and shown that He has this gift for everyone. We have to share it, it should be that we can’t help but share it.
Response to Landon Schnabel
assignment 3
I liked what you had to share concerning your reading of Whidden. I found the dream Ellen White had about her husband interesting too, I actually had never heard that before. I like your ideas on it, how it was a way of coping and probably played a significant role in her emphasis on Christ's love for us. Great thoughts.
Response to Nick Clark Assignment #2
I like the thoughts of God in Romans 2 you presented. It is true we look squarely at the forgiveness but lose sight of the kindness of God. We lose sight of God and focus on the outcomes. The comments on the online article were very similar to a small section of a video I found of Dr. Hanna talking on Google. The law is very important. Dr. Hanna was describing the law as a witness. Paul was never about cheap grace. It is true Paul had a great way of balance and bringing it back to God. And like you I pray God may direct me like He did Paul and that I too want to learn and understand it better.
Grace and Peace, God bless
Dario Ferreira
Doctrine of Salvation
Assignment #3
The third chapter of Romans begins with a question: What then is the advantage of the Jew? Paul was expected to respond negatively to this question, considering that he placed the Jews of guilt in the same situation that the gentiles, to say that they are inexcusable, in Chapter 2. But he surprises us by saying that the Jew has many advantages in many respects.
Interestingly, Paul repeats the same basic question in verse 1, verse 9: "Do We Have (Jews) any advantage (on the Gentiles)?" And now he responds with an emphatic "no, not at all"(pa,ntwj). I believe the first answer (3:2): "Much in every way," refers to the hereditary privileges of the Jews as a chosen nation. Paul himself after giving his response exemplifies why the same verse, saying in other words, the Jews have many advantages over the gentiles, especially the privilege of being the guardians of the oracles of God. Being Jewish was, in this respect an honor.
On the other hand, the second response: "No, not at all" refers to their situation before God. Regardless of privileges, both Jews and Gentiles were under sin, that is, all need the saving grace of God - both Jewish and Gentiles had sinned and needed the glory of God (v.23).
In the rest of Romans 3, Paul makes it clear that it is by faith, not by what he does, that man is justified - given the grace of God.
Paul used the language of a court of law, the slave market and the temple, to show that forgiveness (Justification), deliverance (Redemption) and atonement (Propitiation) are placed on the access of human beings by the spontaneous initiative of God and that can be achieved by faith in the atoning sacrifice of Christ.
The third document on Salvation, written by Angel Manuel Rodriguez, entitled "Christ Saved the Human Race," explains what Ellen White had in mind When She states That Christ saved the world. She did not Believe That Jesus at the cross legally saved the whole human race, but that Christ paid the price for our redemption, making it Possible to Have Access to God and to Be accepted by him. I liked the way too clear that Angel Rodriguez explains this issue and also because it still adds to our understanding by bringing extra statements that clarifies in detail the vision of Ellen White concerning the important topic of salvation.
Is interesting to note, through the personal testimonies of Ellen White and James White, the recognition of the need of the grace of Christ for a sanctified life. Ellen White recognized that it was not perfect and it was not free of errors and mistakes in his life. She always emphasized the great power transformer of God, supporting each believer in his experience of sanctification and perfection.
Response to Nick CLark : Assignment 3
I enjoyed how you reacted to the reading of Romans 3. One can clearly see his joy in seeing the commitment of Paul to answer the arguments of human making "Presenting this balance between obedience and faith." I share this joy too.
I found it interesting how you put the salvation provided by Christ as a gift that can only receive as we can enjoy its benefits. Really, only when we recognize our need of Christ, is that we open our hearts and get this free gift of God. Only then we started to enjoy the salvation and its benefits.
Response to Michael L.
Assignment #2
Michael, I appreciated your fervor in regards to Ellen White and her passion for Christ and what He stood for. There is a message there that needs to be captured. Like you, I believe an accurate understanding of justification by faith is necessary. It is vitally beautiful We also need to go beyond that and embracing that truth for by beholding we are changed.
God bless you brother,
Michael J.
Comment on John Coaxum's Assignment II
I enjoyed your post. There is defenitely fanaticism involved in views on perfection and legalism. Obedience to law is not possible by our own efforts, yet it is needed. The same chapter explains that those who keep it – they have it written on their hearts. It is implied in the text that God is able to write it in our hearts.
As I was reading your assignment I realized that Paul uses here language for Gentiles that was exclusively used for Israel. That is the law is being written on their hearts. Usually from prophets we see these words being applied only to God's faithful people. For Jews in the times of Paul these people were only people of their nation and proselytes. Here we see Paul naming Gentiles as keepers of the law and being praised by God for that. Truly these days many Adventists would be surprised hearing that many non-Seventh Day Adventists are currently keepers of the law when many SDA members are the law breakers. Tremendous – when we are looking for keeping the law, we are mistakenly doing it in a wrong place. The law is kept automatically when you are in right relationships with the Law Giver. But law in itself, as you posed, has no power to make us any better, even it is holy and good.
Thanks for the post.
Response to Dario Ferreira
Dario,
I think you did a good job of summarizing Paul’s message in Romans 3. The response to Paul’s second question about what advantage there was in being a Jew is, “No, not at all,” referring to their situation before God. Something you pointed out that I had not noticed while reading the chapter was that Paul repeats the same basic question in verse 9 that he asked in verse 1. After looking back at the text, I found Paul’s wording in v. 1 to be interesting. He says, Τί οὖν τὸ περισσὸν τοῦ Ἰουδαίου. We could translate this roughly, “What is remarkable about being a Jew?” In other words, What is God’s purpose in even having a special people? The answer he is trying to bring out is that even though God has a purpose for his people, that purpose is not to save them before all others. When it comes to salvation, all are equal.
Assignment 3
As I read Romans 3 alongside Whidden’s chapter on James and Ellen White’s “conversion” stories, I was surprised to find some parallels of experience.
In Romans 3, Paul continues to address the Judaizers in Rome who were claiming some kind of spiritual superiority over their Gentile brothers and sisters. Paul shows that there is indeed an advantage in being a Jew because the Jews have been entrusted with the very words of God. (Interestingly, he applies this same advantage to circumcision). But just because you have the words of God doesn’t mean that God is more able to save you. Paul points out that “some did not have faith” (v. 3). This lack of faith on the part of God’s people, however, doesn’t discredit God, as one might think, given that he must have given them his word for a reason. Rather, says Paul, it only shows that God is just, because he judges such lack of faith, thus showing that he is indeed righteous. Thus, does God want us to sin so that he is shown to be righteous when he condemns our behavior? Of course not.
So the question remains, are we who have the law any better? According to Paul, the answer is no. The law does not put us in a better standing with God! Paul then quotes a plethora of Old Testament passages showing that every single person has sinned. These verses are the very ones given to the Jews, those under the law. Ironically, the law which these Jews point to as evidence of their superiority points back at them and condemns them!
Though in the estimation of humanity, some are declared righteous by their faithful observance of the law, in the estimation of God, none are righteous. This begs the question: Whose esteem am I seeking? Do I want to look good to myself and other religious people? The way to do it is to follow the law. But do I want to look good to God? If so, the law can be of no assistance to me. Not that the law is not valuable, but it has no ability to endear me to God or somehow appoint me more righteousness. Rather, as Paul says, it is “through the law [that] we become conscious of sin” (v. 20).
Now, Paul says, “a righteousness from God has been revealed” (πεφανέρωται). This righteousness is not new, but now it is made more visible. This righteousness comes through faith in Jesus Christ, which means that it is available to everyone who has sinned, both Jews and Gentiles!
Thus, Paul has brought us from relative darkness regarding the righteousness of God to clarity. Righteousness does not come from the observation of the law. It comes through faith in Jesus Christ. This seems to me to be the same faith journey that the Whites experienced prior to 1888 (according to Whidden). They (especially James) moved from an overarching emphasis on the law to a recognition that what was truly needed was that God’s people see clearly the magnificent beauty of Christ, so that they could put their faith in him and receive his righteousness.
And we still need this today.
Assignment 3 Michael Jones
In chapter 3 of Romans, Paul makes some rather bold statements about the human family. “There is none righteous, no not one.” “All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” How did Paul arrive at this conclusion? Paul’s mind grasped Biblical truth as never before when had his conversion experience with Christ on the road to Damascus. The Acts of the Apostle records these insightful words."In that hour of heavenly illumination Saul’s mind acted with remarkable rapidity. The prophetic records of Holy Writ were opened to his understanding" (p.115).
Any way you look at it, sin has infected and affected us all! Isaiah said it as well. “All we like sheep have gone our own way, we have turned every one to his own way.” Though Paul’s clearly announces the human sin problem, even quoting several different OT passages, he doesn’t stop there. He also gives the remedy in marvelous musical tones. Verse 22 begins the victory song by proclaiming that righteousness by faith is given to all. The music then declares that grace is freely given to all through Christ in verse and concludes in verse 25 with the shout that His righteousness passes over sins previously committed! Grace, grace marvelous grace!
Despite the extent of sin, it is this condition that grants us possession of eternal riches in Christ. It becomes clear in this chapter that sin is not the war we fight since it resides in the very fibers of our being. It is our very nature. It is not something we can “get rid of.” The fight is truly a fight of faith, believing that the righteousness of Christ will actually pass over our sins. After all, it sounds too good to be true. And in reality, it is, but He is the "good" Shepherd who brings "good" news.
Assignment #4
Again, a concise chapter from Whidden, brief but packed full. It seems that his research on this project was extensive enough to get the main points effectively. The balance between law and grace was a helpful insight into Ellen White’s views of salvation. Though I could have said that she had these two in balance, I hadn’t thought to connect it with salvation, which seems to give a great help to understanding those sometimes contradictory statements of hers when she talks about grace and how we are saved by Jesus’ sacrifice and grace alone, yet then talks about works and the importance of moving towards perfect obedience. These go together, and I think that understanding the grace in the Old Testament is an especially important thing for Adventists in a time when people are legalistically promoting the festivals and other Old Testament ceremonial regulations.
Her thoughts on last events was challenging to me, and I have been and am still trying to come to terms with the traditional Adventist idea of our righteous living being tied to the Second Coming. This seems strange to me because it seems that it is God who will choose according to His purposes when He will return, and that we will not be able to manipulate the time of His coming and it seems that proclaiming that He hasn’t come yet because of our wrongdoing is a recipe for guilt because those who will take this to heart are probably going to be the ones who, like the young Ellen Harmon, were already trying to follow God to the best of their ability which they felt wasn’t good enough. I don’t really see that argument as something that will convince backsliders to come back to holiness. But I don’t know. The thing that makes me thing about this is that in Judaism there is a similar idea about the first coming of the Messiah, and Jews will say that the Messiah hasn’t come yet because Jews haven’t kept God’s law righteously enough. This idea is expressed when a young religious Jew tells a young ethnic Jew that the Messiah hasn’t come because people like her break the Sabbath when she was building a sand castle on Saturday in Chaim Potok’s Davita’s Harp. Though I do thing we need to live righteously, it just seems like a legalistic method to tell people that there is still suffering in the world because they aren’t being righteous enough. If we could tell people to be righteous with as much love as Jesus did the woman caught in adultery then it would be ok, but we humans seem too often fail in imitating Christ in His love and acceptance for those who have fallen in sin.
Response to Michael Jones
I appreciated your comments on the sin condition, and really like what you said about it not being the battle that we fight. That really the fight is a battle of faith, whether we will believe that Christ's sacrifice is really sufficient to redeem our fallen nature. Powerful stuff.
I also liked how you connected in the text from Isaiah and the way that Paul progressed in his exposition on the forgiveness of Christ, going from our sinfulness to Christ's righteousness.
Nick Clark
Doctrine of Salvation
Assignments #4
The chapter in Whidden was pretty interesting this week, even thought it was really short. I like how it highlighted Ellen White’s understanding of the balance of mercy and justice. It’s interesting, as Whidden points out, that Satan’s attack on God has shifted from God being arbitrary and unfair to this idea that “God’s mercy destroyed justice, with the result that Christ’s death abrogated the Father’s law.” Whidden also says, “Satan is seeking to pervert both law and grace by denying one or both as essential to the understanding of God’s character of love.”
Ellen White says, “Gods’ moral government and His grace are inseparable.” This goes right along with what Paul talks about in Romans. Ellen White, like Paul, had a very balance understanding of law and grace. She didn’t hold the idea that one would or has somehow canceled out the other and taught that they both shed light on who God is and how wonderful what He’s done for us is.
In Romans 4 Paul uses the story of Abraham to illustrate the idea of justification by faith. Paul points out that “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” I love how he maps out the story in chapter 4 verses 13-21 by writing of the promise to Abraham made by God and how “against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations”(verse 18). Then in verse 20 Paul says that Abraham “did not waver through unbelief……but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised.” “This is why it was credited to him as righteousness” Paul says (verse 22). I love how Paul uses Abraham to drive this point home. Abraham was considered righteous, not because of any thing he had done, but because he had a great faith and was “persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised.” This is awesome and illustrates perfectly the idea of righteousness by faith. And then Paul even points out the good news for us today in verses 23 -24 saying “The words ‘it was credited to him’ were written not for him alone, but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness – for us who believe”. And we also know that Abraham’s faith caused him to live out his life for God and this is exactly what we should do as well. I love it such good news shared in a powerful way.
response to Landon Schnabel,
assignment 4
Landon I appreciate your thoughts on this weeks reading. Your last part especially resonates with me. It is crazy that we too often tell people they are not righteous enough and then tell them the remedy is to "do this, or do that". That's not at all a balanced approach. We definitely need to learn more to imitate Christ, as you said, in our dealings with others.
Arthur Jennings
Doctrine of Salvation
Martin Hanna, Ph.D.
September 14, 2010
Reflection Paper/Assignment 2
Paul’s letter to the Romans almost sounds like a love letter from God in my opinion because of the enthusiasm in which Paul expresses it and the tone which it takes. Paul introduces himself as a slave but not just an ordinary slave but one with good news. Looking at the text contextually brings out the fact that Paul is a willing servant (slave), to God commission to preach the good news concerning God. That good news is salvation to the Jews and Gentiles.
I always like to take a different approach to understanding things. Several questions come to mind as I read Romans chapter 1. How can a slave have good news? If he is a slave, it appears the only good news he can have would be one of freedom. As one reads carefully, it is a message of freedom. So why does Paul call himself a slave? And what kind of freedom is Paul talking about as it relates to the good news of Christ? Paul is no ordinary slave with a master. Paul talks about his slavery to Christ as one of great privilege. He is claiming freedom for himself and for the Jesus and Gentiles alike who accept Christ.
After Paul says who he is a slave of; he points out what is special about being a slave to master-Christ. His master comes from a royal family line; and not only that He is the Son of God, which was demonstrated by His resurrection from the grave. This invitation Paul wants them to have, is one of salvation through Jesus Christ.
Paul expresses Gods’ love to the Romans and the invitation into His freedom. He commends the church for their steadfast faith and commitment to God which has been traveling throughout world. Paul is eager to re-establish a close relationship with the church. Paul reminds them that his faith and commitment to God as just like theirs – He is not ashamed of the gospel concerning Christ.
This love letter possesses the gift of salvation. Paul makes known the importance of faith as he points to scripture. Did the Romans already have salvation because of their faith or was Paul bringing another element to their understanding? Paul simply taught them the consequences of unbelief and the results it had on those who turned their backs on God.God’s anger is revealed against those who reject him. Their minds became dark and confused. Men and women lust turned to those of the same sex and although they were aware of God’s penalty of death they continued in their evil ways while teaching other to do likewise.
Paul’s message is one that carries a life or death sentence; Life for those whose faith is centered in Christ and death for all others. Paul’s’ invitation invites all to freedom, not the freedom to do whatever one pleases but the freedom that brings eternal life. We are all slaves to something however; we can choose what we are slaves to – whether it is to death or to life. I choose life!
Arthur Jennings
Doctrine of Salvation
Martin Hanna, Ph.D.
September 19, 2010
Reflection Paper/Assignment 3
James and Ellen White had compelling testimonies. Just before James death in 1881 he observed that the church was going in the wrong direction. James messages would be re-directed to those dealing with faith in Christ and love for God. His death had a great influence on Ellen; she vowed to stand by her duty. This was an issue she and James had not settled on. This duty would eventually lead to a belief called justification by faith.
Ellen’s personal testimony was one of fallibility. She stated that she did not claim infallibility or perfection of Christian character. She also expressed disappointment with her spiritual accomplishments. Ellen was humbled as she sought to be filled with God’s Spirit. She desired to be righteous. Her attitude towards the idea of being perfect consisted of being humble while acknowledging fallibility and always trying to reach a higher level of practical righteousness.
Many people try to put false claims on Ellen White by misquoting her or placing her on a pedestal themselves; but if we listened to her words many of those accusations would cease. Ellen White’s personal testimony of fallibility is rejected by many Adventist today. They believed the prophetess to have achieved perfection although she never claimed it. I once heard a preacher scolded because he did not use Ellen White in his sermon. The member/visitor was really angry with the Pastor. When the Pastor asked the member/visitor had he preached the word of God being faithful to the scriptures? The member/visitor replied ‘yes’ but that he should have consulted with the prophetess writings’ before he completed writing his sermon.
The member/visitor did not do this quietly in church but made a bold, loud public display of his feelings. It eventually led to members arguing over the topic. Some members left while others stayed and continued on the same subject. It eventually came up again the next Sabbath. The member/visitor had quoted Ellen White’s writing a lot but had not listened to them (internalized her words). The fallibility became the member/visitor because he could not understand that Ellen was pointing people back to scriptures and not the scriptures needing her counsel. I will always remember the look on the member/visitor face when he was asked to let the subject go. He could not. He had to be escorted out of the church.
Ellen White testimony is one for all of us. Salvation is not earned but a gift from Jesus Christ. Perfection and infallibility are daily goals we aspire to. Humility was Ellen’s way, as it should be ours. Ellen and James both understood the importance of faith in a Christian’s life. Ellen’s endorsement of justification by faith was not only a result from her understanding of scripture but also her experience which would lead to becoming part of her doctrine.
Lavina Seawright
Assignment 2
Reading Chap 3 of EW on Salvation really made me think about the current standing of our church, coming from a more conservative up bringing that was traditional and having firsthand experience with this theory of obeying the law and making sure you “do” the right things (or don’t do certain things); The impact of this legalistic system, I believe has been fostered in many of our churches and cripples many of us well into adulthood. Whidden emphasized Ellen’s stance that “we are justified by faith in the “merits” of Christ, but faith will never excuse transgression”. Romans 2:21-24 talks about how we in essence play 2 sides of the field, coinciding with the discussion in class on Thursday we should be mindful of what we say to others. Not excusing wrong doing, just making a point to not place yourself above them. I kind of found myself fixated on this cluster of verses, partly because I've felt like I was being judged by individuals who also had challenges in their lives to overcome and partly because I've been the one to "preach" to friends or family about the way that is right yet I am turning around and struggling with my issues. I’m sure we all have at some point in our lives felt like someone was making you feel like you were always screwing up. I humbly believe that Romans 2 is gently reminding Me (US) that we are examples to others and part of being that example is knowing we are all on the same playing field, and running the same race. Knowledge of truth and what is right comes through knowing Christ, we can’t do right without knowing Him.
Lavina Seawright
Response to Alexander Rybachek Assignment 2
I really really like reading your post, it made me think about this thing we call confidence in much greater depth. I have never considered that our "self-confidence" could be something that draws us further away from Christ.
Great point regarding our need for Christ and our inability to keep the law on our own.
Assignment 4
One of the things Whidden brings up in chapter 5 of Ellen White on Salvation is the idea of hastening Christ’s return by obedience. According to Froom, the lack of holy living was a reason for Ellen White’s repeated explanation of the long delay of the Second Coming (referenced in Whidden, 37). Whidden refers to two important statements by Ellen White that have been the topic of much discussion and debate. Both are from The Great Controversy. The first is from p. 425, and says, “Those who are living upon the earth when the intercession of Christ shall cease in the sanctuary above are to stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator. Their robes must be spotless, their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling.” This is a statement that has made many an Adventist tremble with fear. The other statement Whidden quotes is from p. 623, “He [Christ] had kept His Father’s commandments, and there was no sin in Him that Satan could use to his advantage. This is the condition in which those must be found who shall stand in the time of trouble.”
How should we understand these statements regarding salvation? Shall they be an incentive to live more holy lives so that Christ can come back sooner? And if so, does that mean that we will focus on the elimination of outward sins from our lives? This idea seems to me to be wholly self-centered. It seems to reflect the line of thinking that goes something like this: “I want Christ to come back sooner so that I don’t have to live in this world any longer. In order for him to come, I must change my behavior. This will get me what I want.”
If Christ’s return (and the salvation he brings with him) is dependent on the lives of human beings living “according to the law,” does that mean that our salvation is based on works? I wonder how we can say that our salvation is based entirely on what Christ has done if we cannot actually receive his gift until the “final generation” has achieved a state of sinless perfection.
Perhaps we should understand Ellen White’s statements not to be referring merely to an outward sinlessness, but to a covering of our sins by the acceptance of Christ’s sacrifice for us through faith which is manifest in sincere repentance. If our sins have been covered by the blood of Jesus, Satan cannot bring them up as an accusation against us.
Another way we could understand these statements is in reference, not to something we have to accomplish before Christ can return, but in reference to what he will accomplish in us as part of his return.
In any case, my thoughts here are not polished conclusions, but raw reflections. I look forward to hearing the thoughts of my colleagues on this issue and reading section 4 of Whidden’s book, where he examines these statements in more detail.
Response to Nick Clark, Assignment 4
Nick, like you, I also really enjoyed this chapter in Whidden. The inseparability of God’s government and his grace that Ellen White refers to is a subject that I am personally passionate about. I believe that it is one of the most important concepts to understand because it helps us understand Scripture and salvation in the context of the Great Controversy. It helps us meet the answer of what Ty Gibson calls the most “natural” branch of theology: theodicy. The world is asking the question, How can God be loving when there is so much suffering in the world? This is a question that the Great Controversy answers in a way that few Christians understand today.
Response to Arthur Jennings
First of all, I could put myself into your story about a pastor who did not use E. G. White quotations enough or at all because I once have done that before myself. I also received the same kind of reaction.
I know you are making a point by using this illustration but I have to say that^^.
Fallibility and mistake are human characteristics no matter how righteous we are. Our wreched body does what we do not want including E. G. White.
Assignment 1
Jin soo Park
I have read Roman Chapter 1. since I was high school student, but every time of my reading I have felt that it is so fresh gospel such as first reading. Although it is same messege, we can get different messeges through this book.
I like the book of Roman, especially Roman 1:17. “For in it the righteousness of God is revealed through faith for faith; as it is written, "He who through faith is righteous shall live."
This verse says about the way of faith.”Through faith for faith”. We are still on the way of faith. And there is the righteousness of God in the gospel. When we believe that, we can find another faith. What should we believe? The gospel. And what is the godpel? It is John 3:16. “For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life”. And it is the righteousness of God.
I want to mention that we are on faith. It is based on te righteousness of God, but not our experience. When I read Roman 1:16, I could feel that Paul was the one who experienced the gospel in his life. That is faith that based on experience. It is same faith but deeper faith. We should experience the righteouness of God. That is the only way to reach another faith.
I also could find some insight from the document. I read about what were happened when Adam sinned. There are many results that happened by sin. But I think the most horrible result was Separation from God. At that time Adam never experienced Separation from God. I think that must be so sad and scary. but, more important thing that we should know is God also makes the way to recover our relation. And that is Gospel. There is the righteousness of God. That should be worked by faith.
Matthew Shallenberger
Assignment 2
In the reading this week, I was impressed by Whidden’s breakdown of the decade before the 1888 General Conference session. We always think about 1888 as being a watershed in Adventist history. But many of the things that were emphasized in 1888 Ellen White was already talking about in the years preceding that notable General Conference. Whidden points out that the GC session just before 1888 was actually quite significant itself. Ellen White preached sermons that focused on “pardon and justification.” While Mrs. White always believed in justification by faith, this decade saw a new emphasis on justification, and it actually started at the 1883 GC session.
Many people think that Mrs. White was very legalistic. They think her writings focus too much on works and not enough on grace. But perhaps these people are not looking at her writings in their proper historical context. Mrs. White often emphasized the law in her writings because she was responding to antinomian fanatics. She did not hold up the law as a means of salvation, but she did hold it up as something of great importance. It has often been said that there is a ditch on either side of the road into which we will fall if we are not careful. With the issue of salvation, one ditch is that of legalism—treating the law and our observance of it as the way to salvation. The other ditch is to throw out the law completely—ignoring its God-given requirements and living however we please because we are “under grace.” Neither extreme is acceptable or biblically supported. Ellen White, it turns out, was actually quite balanced in her approach to the relation of law-keeping and justification by faith. At times she emphasized the importance of keeping the law, and at other times she emphasized the wonderful truth that salvation comes by God’s grace through faith and not by our works. She was not radically changing her viewpoint; she was merely pointing people to the truth and resisting those who were veering toward one ditch or the other.
Paul displays a similarly balanced soteriology in Romans. Already in chapter 1 he has shown that the Gentiles stand guilty before God because they have refused to acknowledge His revelation to them. In chapter 2, Paul now turns the argument against the Jews to show that they too are guilty of breaking God’s law. There is no one who can claim innocence; all stand on level ground, guilty of violating God’s commandments. Later on in the book of Romans Paul will argue that the law can never be a means of salvation. The Jews may have thought that they were doing alright because they had the law. But salvation can only come by believing in Jesus. We can never save ourselves by doing good works. However, that does not mean that keeping the law is not important! Both Paul and Ellen White have a tension in their writings between salvation by faith and the importance of law-keeping. Paul goes so far as to say that “it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified (Rom. 2:13). When Jesus saves us, He does not give us a license to do what we please. His law is still binding even when we have been justified by faith. Even after we are saved we are bound to make mistakes and break His law, and when we do we can always come to Him and ask for forgiveness. But His law will always be in effect. It is always binding upon our lives. That is the tension between law and grace.
Response to Alexander Rybachek Assignment 2:
Alexander, I really appreciate how you took Paul’s portrayal of the plight of humanity and applied it to us. Paul may be addressing Jews in his letter to the Romans, but what he says applies to every person in every era. We’re all sinners; we’ve all messed up. We like to think that we’re doing alright (and as you pointed out, we often like to think we’re really better than everyone else). But we can’t escape the reality that we’re lost. If the story ended there, it would really be a tragedy. But, just as you pointed out, the hopelessness of our lost condition only serves to show us the depth of our need for a Savior. If we didn’t feel hopelessly lost, we might be tempted to think that we could do something to save ourselves. But the vacuum inside of us requires something greater than our own efforts to fill. We need Jesus.
Reed Richardi
Assignment # 3
Some reflections after reading the article by Ivan Blazen on Justification by faith and judgment by works in the writings of Paul. The article (actually a collection of articles) was excellent. It answered the question: If we are justified by faith then are we really judged by works, and if so why? I see this as a key question in our discussion of law, grace, and legalism. If our works cannot qualify us for heaven can they disqualify us for heaven. After laying a foundation of the reality of justification by faith and also the reality of judgment by works in the writings of Paul, Blazen then tries to resolve the tension between the two. Here is what struck me. “When Seventh-day Adventists speak of an investigative judgment, it should not be understood as meaning that God seeks information He does not have…So the purpose of the investigative judgment on God's part is not to discover reality but to unmask it, not to find out the truth but to reveal it.” Judgment by works is not because our works qualify us, but because our works reveal us… “by their fruits you shall know them.” Our basis our qualification for heaven is always and forever the righteousness of Christ. But there are many who call Jesus Lord, so the judgment according to works, reveals the reality of our faith and connection to Jesus Christ that is in our hearts. To me this is helps to resolve this tension, because as Blazen points out “renewal is born of forgiveness”. Sanctification is a fruit of justification. Blazen also discusses another divine purpose of judgment by wokrs: “The conclusion of our discussion about the question of assurance is to say that if justification grants assurance, judgment guards it. It guards it from the illusion that assurance is possible without a fundamental relationship to Christ and a committed following of Christ.” There is still much that I do not understand in regards to the relationship of the judgment and justification by faith. One parable the article made me think of was what Christ said in Matt. 7:21-23. Where Christ says that it is only those who do His will. Yet the people are disqualified because they didn’t know Christ, even though their fruits to (from our perspective) seemed to point in their favor. This shows me that God judges fruits and works not superficially as we might. I look forward to studying and thinking more upon this subject.
Reed Richardi
Response to Ryan Kilgore Assignment # 4.
Ryan I appreciate your thoughts on these two statements by Ellen White. Obviously they are statements that need to be wrestled with. I like very much the thought of taking them as a promise of what God will do in us. I agree that it will be interesting to read what Whidden has to say.
ASSIGNMENT N.1
REFLECTION on reading E.G. White on salvation by Woodrow W.whidden II
Section I chapters 1&2: Conversion, Sanctification and early ministry.
Conversion is turning or retuning to God ‘through repentance. It is moral change from the former sinful conduct and turn toward God by doing His will. It is seeking good instead of evil. It is withdrawing from evils/idols and returning to Yahweh and observance of His moral precepts. E.G. White was a truth seeker! She was formerly a Methodist believer. It is interesting that she searched the truth and she was ready to make changes according to the revealed word to her from God. She later on became and Adventist believer. That is sanctification” process of being made holy or a process of being cleaned”
Perfection is a state of being of perfect, without blemish or sport. Since the entrance of sin to human being, no human being is perfect. We are all sinners we need to be sanctified by the blood of Christ and by His word/scriptures from God, this sanctification is a process, it is no a one day event.
Justification is the state of be justified, being counted just or right. We are justified by grace through faith in Jesus. It is no because of what we do/did but because of what Jesus Christ did for us.
Conversion, perfection, holiness, and justification are the subjects which trouble so much E.G. White when she was in a Methodist believer. They should be studied prayerfully under the guidance of the Holy Spirit other wise we can result into holiness fanaticism, law extremists, ant-law –extremists, and perfectionist fanaticism.
ASSIGNMENT NO 2
Reflection on the reading of the book of salvation by by Woodrow w.
Section one chapter three.
Fanaticism is very dangerous. The issue of mr.brown on the state of holiness of life was an extremely fanatic and too emotional. While we are still here on Earth we can’t be in such state/condition whereby we become 100%holy and perfect that we can not sin no more! We are in a battle against the authorities of evils, we are undergoing sanctification, and this sanctification is not a one day event, but it is a process; Jesus Christ always sanctifies us every day by His truth(word)He reveals to us. We are not perfect or sinless that is why we every day pray that God may forgive us our sins.
Another extreme is about the law!! The ant- extremists claims that “there is no need of keeping the law.” It is true that we are not saved by keeping the law; we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ but we have to be obedient to His precepts.”He says if you love me keep my commandments”.
We don’t keep the law in order to be saved, but we keep the law because we have been saved by Christ. Christ who lives in us enables us to keep His law which is the foundation of His government. It reveals His character (Love).
I was so impressed by the words which were spoken by the prophetess ;E.G. White” we are not perfect ,we may err and do say things which are not right, we humbly trying to follow the footsteps of our savior , I wish that self should be hid in Jesus, I do not claim infallibility, or even perfect of Christian character. I am not free from mistakes and errors in my life,” She ended by saying as long as we are not perfect we have the mighty savior!! I rejoice that I have that faith that takes a hold of promises of God that works by love and sanctifies the soul!!”
There we should ask God through His Holy spirit to lead us in understanding His words lest we not become extremes and fanatics
ASSIGNMENT NO 2
Reflection on the reading of the book of salvation by by Woodrow w.
Section one chapter three.
Fanaticism is very dangerous. The issue of mr.brown on the state of holiness of life was an extremely fanatic and too emotional. While we are still here on Earth we can’t be in such state/condition whereby we become 100%holy and perfect that we can not sin no more! We are in a battle against the authorities of evils, we are undergoing sanctification, and this sanctification is not a one day event, but it is a process; Jesus Christ always sanctifies us every day by His truth(word)He reveals to us. We are not perfect or sinless that is why we every day pray that God may forgive us our sins.
Another extreme is about the law!! The ant- extremists claims that “there is no need of keeping the law.” It is true that we are not saved by keeping the law; we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ but we have to be obedient to His precepts.”He says if you love me keep my commandments”.
We don’t keep the law in order to be saved, but we keep the law because we have been saved by Christ. Christ who lives in us enables us to keep His law which is the foundation of His government. It reveals His character (Love).
I was so impressed by the words which were spoken by the prophetess ;E.G. White” we are not perfect ,we may err and do say things which are not right, we humbly trying to follow the footsteps of our savior , I wish that self should be hid in Jesus, I do not claim infallibility, or even perfect of Christian character. I am not free from mistakes and errors in my life,” She ended by saying as long as we are not perfect we have the mighty savior!! I rejoice that I have that faith that takes a hold of promises of God that works by love and sanctifies the soul!!”
There we should ask God through His Holy spirit to lead us in understanding His words lest we not become extremes and fanatics
ASSIGNMENT NO 3
Reading reflection on E.G. White on salvation by Woodrow.W.W hidden II
Section II; Chapter five
Satan has been in controversy or against with the law of God since when he was in heaven; Satan gave charges to God that He has no love, He is a dictator, and He forces people to obey Him. Those are the claims Satan is making even now ; that it is not easy to keep God’s laws because they are difficulty/heavy, no need of keeping the laws because we are under the grace, no works are required because faith only is enough; because God has mercy he will not judge us, but He will save us all!!
Satan is real seeking to pervert both law and grace by denying one or both hen Jesus died on the cross He refuted all Satan’s charges against Him. He made it clear that it is possible for a human being to keep the law, because even He as a human being and still He were able to keep the law. He did not sin. God’s law is the revelation of God’s character of love; this love is full of mercy that is just in its expressions.
Thus the gospel of salvation is Christ centered story of the revelation of character of God, which both just and merciful whose moral demands are absolutely essential to the welfare of His created beings, and whose mercy is unbounded to penitent souls. But his mercy is extended only on the basis of holy justice.Justce and mercy is both sides of the same coin of God’s character of love.
Being under the grace does not men that we violet the laws but grace emphasizes that we keep the law.”Titus 2:11-14.Romans 5:20, 21; 6:1-4; 7:7-12.Thus we keep the law of God because we have been saved by grace through faith in Jesus.
ASSIGNMENT NO .4
Reflection on reading report E.G. White on salvation by Woodrow W.Whidden II A
Section II Chapter six-sin the human condition and salvation.
Sin is transgression of God’s wills (1SM320), and a condition of depravity that involves inherited propensities, inclinations, tendencies and a bent to sin. As a result of Adam’s sin/disobedience, every human being a transgressor of God’s law, we are sold under sin. Our hearts are naturally depraved and are unable of ourselves to peruse rights things (course).Adam’s sin definitely caused his posterity to be born with inherent propensities of disobedience, but such a depravity is not total depravity, sinners still have ability to respond to God’s saving offer.
We are not born with sin, but we are born with sinful nature, bent to evil and propensities to sin which lead sin and guilt. Because of this we are responsible for sins and this is the main issue that confronts not only the sinner but also the redeeming God. It has been thus since the original of in Eden –when Adam ran from God in the shame of their fig-leaf –self-righteousness, God came seeking them.
When sin entered the world the will of human beings became enslaved; and through the will sin retains its holds up to humanity. There is no power in the unaided human will to oppose sin but through Jesus Christ the will of the human beings is freed. It if impossible for us to of ourselves to escape from the pit of sin in which we are sunken. His grace alone can quicken the lifeless faculties of the soul, and attract it to God, to holiness. It is only through the grace of God combined with the most earnest effort of our part, that we can obtain victory. Thus salvation is Christ –centered in all its aspects of all calling, conviction, forgiveness empowerment for obedience and glorification, but each step comprehends the humble responses of the human subject. God doesn’t force. in dealing with us sinners.
Doctrine of Salvation Reflection assignment 3 Sept. 21, 2010 Michael Liu
From the book of Romans I would want to know how a person is justified discussed. First we observe the passage said who obey the law will be declared righteous. (Rom. 2:13) And God will give to each person according to what he has do in judgment. (2:6,7) It is those who persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, gain eternal life. It seems a person achieves righteous has to do with his behaviors.
But on the other hand we see the opposite statement that says no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the Law. (Rom. 3:20) God will Justifies man by faith apart from observing the law. (3:28) In Romans chapter four it uses the case of Abraham to states that those who do not work but trust God who justified the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. If Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about. (4:2,5) David says the same thing that God credits righteousness apart from works. (4:6) If those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless. (4:14)
Bible states the reason one cannot justified by works is our weakened sinful human nature has no power to do what the law demands. (8:3) We don’t have what is needed to match the requirement.
So God uses another way to Justified us by his grace through redemption that came by Christ as a gift. (3:24; 4:4) God will credit righteousness for those who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. (4:24)
So how do we understand those verses seem telling us those who obey the law will be declared righteous? We can see the kind of obedience is an obedience of faith. (1:5) The reason to obey is not to establish credit but to honor God by acknowledge His principle in the law of life. (2:23) The doing is just the fruit of believing and trusting in Him.
Why then is the judgment of God focus upon what a person does? (2:6,7) The judgment of God is based on how people respond to the truth of God. (2:2; 1:25) The outward behavior is just a indication of what is in their heart – a genuine people of God. (2:28,29) Their motivation is to please God as an appreciation of who He is and what he had done. Though faith in His blood that He had meet the justice requirement of breaking the law on our behalf, our history has been rewrite. (3:24)
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Response to Alicia Johnston assignment #3
I like the quote of Ellen White’s humble acknowledge of imperfection in character and not free from errors in life. And how shall we judge ourselves. In the light of the possibility of what we can be if we follow Jesus closely from the very beginning to the end. And we are not reaching to the ideal God had planned for us.
Doctrine of Salvation Reflection assignment 3 Sept. 21, 2010 Michael Liu
From the book of Romans I would want to know how a person is justified discussed. First we observe the passage said who obey the law will be declared righteous. (Rom. 2:13) And God will give to each person according to what he has do in judgment. (2:6,7) It is those who persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, gain eternal life. It seems a person achieves righteous has to do with his behaviors.
But on the other hand we see the opposite statement that says no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the Law. (Rom. 3:20) God will Justifies man by faith apart from observing the law. (3:28) In Romans chapter four it uses the case of Abraham to states that those who do not work but trust God who justified the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. If Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about. (4:2,5) David says the same thing that God credits righteousness apart from works. (4:6) If those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless. (4:14)
Bible states the reason one cannot justified by works is our weakened sinful human nature has no power to do what the law demands. (8:3) We don’t have what is needed to match the requirement.
So God uses another way to Justified us by his grace through redemption that came by Christ as a gift. (3:24; 4:4) God will credit righteousness for those who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. (4:24)
So how do we understand those verses seem telling us those who obey the law will be declared righteous? We can see the kind of obedience is an obedience of faith. (1:5) The reason to obey is not to establish credit but to honor God by acknowledge His principle in the law of life. (2:23) The doing is just the fruit of believing and trusting in Him.
Why then is the judgment of God focus upon what a person does? (2:6,7) The judgment of God is based on how people respond to the truth of God. (2:2; 1:25) The outward behavior is just a indication of what is in their heart – a genuine people of God. (2:28,29) Their motivation is to please God as an appreciation of who He is and what he had done. Though faith in His blood that He had meet the justice requirement of breaking the law on our behalf, our history has been rewrite. (3:24)
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Response to Alicia Johnston assignment #3
I like the quote of Ellen White’s humble acknowledge of imperfection in character and not free from errors in life. And how shall we judge ourselves. In the light of the possibility of what we can be if we follow Jesus closely from the very beginning to the end. And we are not reaching to the ideal God had planned for us.
Doctrine of Salvation Reflection assignment 3 Sept. 21, 2010 Michael Liu
From the book of Romans I would want to know how a person is justified discussed. First we observe the passage said who obey the law will be declared righteous. (Rom. 2:13) And God will give to each person according to what he has do in judgment. (2:6,7) It is those who persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, gain eternal life. It seems a person achieves righteous has to do with his behaviors.
But on the other hand we see the opposite statement that says no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the Law. (Rom. 3:20) God will Justifies man by faith apart from observing the law. (3:28) In Romans chapter four it uses the case of Abraham to states that those who do not work but trust God who justified the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. If Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about. (4:2,5) David says the same thing that God credits righteousness apart from works. (4:6) If those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless. (4:14)
Bible states the reason one cannot justified by works is our weakened sinful human nature has no power to do what the law demands. (8:3) We don’t have what is needed to match the requirement.
So God uses another way to Justified us by his grace through redemption that came by Christ as a gift. (3:24; 4:4) God will credit righteousness for those who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. (4:24)
So how do we understand those verses seem telling us those who obey the law will be declared righteous? We can see the kind of obedience is an obedience of faith. (1:5) The reason to obey is not to establish credit but to honor God by acknowledge His principle in the law of life. (2:23) The doing is just the fruit of believing and trusting in Him.
Why then is the judgment of God focus upon what a person does? (2:6,7) The judgment of God is based on how people respond to the truth of God. (2:2; 1:25) The outward behavior is just a indication of what is in their heart – a genuine people of God. (2:28,29) Their motivation is to please God as an appreciation of who He is and what he had done. Though faith in His blood that He had meet the justice requirement of breaking the law on our behalf, our history has been rewrite. (3:24)
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Response to Alicia Johnston assignment #3
I like the quote of Ellen White’s humble acknowledge of imperfection in character and not free from errors in life. And how shall we judge ourselves. In the light of the possibility of what we can be if we follow Jesus closely from the very beginning to the end. And we are not reaching to the ideal God had planned for us.
Response to Chester Clark
Thanks Chester for your personal feedback on the subject of unconditional justification. I will definitely take a look at your proposed idea concerning reconciliation(universally,and the role cooperation of the human will (faith) plays in justification.
Response to Elias Misungwi
Elias I appreciate your summary on the human depravity due to Adam’s sin. Yet I am grateful that through Jesus Christ humans are free to respond to God’s grace. I agree that salvation is thoroughly the work of God, yet it is our part to humbly respond to this salvation that God richly offers us in Jesus Christ.
Brian Baierl
Assignment #3
The reading I did for Doctrine of Salvation was interestingly very similar. In the reading of Romans 3 and the fourth chapter in Ellen White on Salvation, by Whidden both expressed the importance of obedience. There is a world out there that is confused on grace, Law, and faith. These readings put them into perspective. The concept now these days were present in Ellen White’s day: the Law is impossible to follow. The push is to make it sound so impossible that we can do away with the whole Law. I read for another class this week the chapter called “It is Finished,” in Desire of Ages and Mrs. White tells about how Lucifer had this very idea. We need to be careful in talking about how the Law is impossible. Ellen White mentions that it is impossible to be saved by the Law. The Law is still quite important and still stands to exist and be applicable. It is like a steering wheel in a car. A car will not start by a steering wheel, but it will help direct the car where you want to go. The car starts with a key that causes a chain of events to take place. The steering wheel is not part of this chain of events. The steering wheel however cannot be taken out. This item is crucial especially if you want to turn the car and get back on path. The same chapter I read pointed out the Law is the attributes of God. It also made the correlation of righteousness being the attributes required of the Law. “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (2 Corinthians 5:21)” The balance of obedience by faith and gracious redemption is what Ellen White focused on in Chapter 4 and we need that now. Paul in Romans 3 I believe was pointing out the very same thing.
Response to Reed Richardi on his assignment #3
I like the wrestling with the quandary of justification by faith and judged by works. I like the way Blazen worked through the question. The notion of Judgment not qualifying, but revealing. Thank you for sharing this topic. It does however sound like it will be something we can study and study. So keep me up to date on what you find.
Comment on Romans 3 -4
Reflecting on Romans I noticed several unique features of the text as well as unique elements of Pauline Theology. As it relates to the text I noticed that Paul based his argument largely on what had been previously revealed in scripture so that he was not necessarily developing a new theology but rather expounding on the fuller meaning of what had already been revealed to through the prophets. In addition Paul appears to use a rhetorical device of positive/negative statements to assist his reader with understanding the full meaning of his argument. Paul seems to be aware of the value of allowing his reader to draw their own conclusions about his propositional statements. Yet he also, clearly states the view that he wants the reader to embrace. Concerning Paul’s theology he demonstrates a unique perspective on the Gospel that is counter cultural for the primarily Jewish audience he was writing too. Particularly Paul recognizes their presuppositions and biases that have informed their way of thinking and have shaped their theological world view. Paul attempts to address these presuppositions with presuppositions of his own supported by propositional statements that reveal more clearly and accurately the message of the earlier prophets. Paul’s argument is that “all are under sin and all have sinned.” From Paul’s perspective this makes every one both Jew and Gentile equally guilty before God. This would have struck a clear blow at the prejudicial inferiority complex of the Jews. Paul also argues that God is the God of all “both the Jew and the Gentile.” For Paul this appears to demonstrate his primary argument, that all must respond come to God by faith. Paul uses several examples from scripture to include the narrative of Abraham and the sayings of David. Paul’s main point is that God justifies all by faith. Paul demonstrates clearly that it is not works that justifies by faith in a God who justifies. Paul’s theology demonstrates a universal scope and inclusive in its perspective. Ultimately, Paul demonstrates that the God of the Jews is also the God of the Gentiles and that the free gift of justification by faith has been given to us by the Father of us all, “Our Father which art in heaven.”
Kevin Solomon
Assignment #3
The articles that I read for this week was on the topics of salvation in which Ángel Manuel Rodríguez evaluated whether “Christ Saved the Human Race.”. In this reading the website topic look at, “In what sense can we speak of Christ's saving the world? Does it mean His death actually redeems all persons, regardless of faith or its absence? Does it mean all are redeemed but only an elect group receives the benefit?” The author’s sought to refute the idea that the statements in which Ellen White says that Christ saved the world should not be misconstrued to argue that Christ legally saved the whole world at the cross. Rodriquez main point is that, statements in which White states that Christ saved the word is refers to Christ objective act of salvation in which, “He made it possible for human beings to be united with God; he "connected earth with heaven." But only repentant sinners can benefit from that salvation. That is what she meant when she said that Christ "saved the world." Again Rodriquez concludes, “Therefore the phrase "saved the world" does not mean that the whole human race was legally saved at the cross. It means that Christ through his life of obedience and his sacrificial death paid the price for our redemption and bridged the separation caused by the sin of Adam making it possible for repentant sinners to have access to and be accepted by God. Lastly for Rodriquez, the fact that Christ redeem all mankind at the cross does not automatically make us one with Him, though Christ purchase us as his ownership we have to consent to become children of God, demonstrating it through obedience, and it is after we consent to becoming children that we become one with God. Thus though Christ obtained redemption for mankind, it is not forced on us; we have to accept this gift in a spirit of repentance and a willingness to separate from sin. Christ through his atonement has paid the price for our redemption, and the fact of this objective work, “makes it possible for all to return to God, and acknowledge Christ as their rightful owner who can actually deliver them from Satan’s enslaving power.” My reading of this article has clarified my understanding of the nature of salvation, and has given me some things to think about.
Revised Comment on Romans 3 -4
Reflecting on Romans I noticed several unique features of the text as well as various unique elements of Pauline Theology. As it relates to the text, I noticed that Paul based his argument largely on what had been previously revealed in scripture so that he was not necessarily developing a new theology, but rather expounding on the fuller meaning of what had already been revealed through the prophets. In addition, Paul appears to use a rhetorical device of positive/negative statements to assist his reader with understanding the full meaning of his argument. Paul seems to be aware of the value of allowing his reader to draw their own conclusions about his propositional statements. Yet, he also clearly states the view that he wants the reader to embrace. Concerning Paul’s theology, he demonstrates a unique perspective on the Gospel that is counter cultural for the primarily Jewish audience he was writing to. Particularly Paul recognizes their presuppositions and biases that have informed their way of thinking and have shaped their theological world view. Paul attempts to address these presuppositions with presuppositions of his own supported by propositional statements that reveal more clearly and accurately the message of the earlier prophets. Paul’s argument is that “all are under sin and all have sinned.” From Paul’s perspective this makes every one both Jew and Gentile equally guilty before God. This would have struck a clear blow at the prejudicial inferiority complex of the Jews. Paul also argues that God is the God of all “both the Jew and the Gentile.” For Paul this appears to demonstrate his primary argument, that all must come to God by faith. Paul uses several examples from scripture to include the narrative of Abraham and the sayings of David. Paul’s main point is that God justifies all by faith. Paul demonstrates clearly that it is not works that justifies but faith in a God who justifies. Paul’s theology demonstrates both an inclusive perspective and a universal scope. Ultimately, Paul demonstrates that the God of the Jews is also the God of the Gentiles and that the free gift of justification by faith has been freely given to us by the Father of us all, “Our Father which art in heaven.”
Kevin, thank you for raising the discussion and sharing with us some aspects of your personal journey of discernment and assemblage of different pieces - the legal justification, predetermination and free will of man, into the one big picture of Salvation.
My journey led me to realization that justification is an objective universal act, which deals with Satan’s accusation against the divine law and human nature. The fall of men supposed to demonstrate that God’s world order is not perfect. Either the law is imperfect, or the created humanity is defective. By casting Lucifer out of heaven God designated his position in regard to the law. Now Satan believed, that God would have to give up humanity.
The incarnation and holly, obedient life of Jesus up to the death on the cross has proved that there is nothing wrong with human nature. It is possible to be human and live in harmony with God’s law. It seems like this act of justification of human nature is indeed universal. It doesn’t require personal respond. It is just the objective reality, the refutation of Satan’s lie.
I recently discovered an interesting quote. “Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind, and in all ages; as not depending either on time or place, or any other circumstances liable to change, but on the nature of God, and the nature of man, and their unchangeable relation to each other.” {GC 262.1} It appears, that not only nature of God is the foundation of the law and the reason of its irrevocability, but also the nature of man and the relation between man and God.
However, talking about Chester’s suggestion, it seems for me that reconciliation is universal reality in terms of God’s provisional initiative of salvation, but subjective in terms of human respond. Though reconciliation is quite similar to justification, it’s more relational, it requires a respond of man; otherwise it doesn’t leave freedom of choice. This is why, I think Paul says in 2 Cor. 5:20 “We beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”
Assignment #3 - Romans Chpt 3
As I read this chapter I found myself thinking back to the times of the New Testament and trying to apply the cultural and religious background while I was reading. The challenge however comes when trying to apply some of these texts to our modern day. I do firmly believe that God has chosen the Seventh-day Adventist Church in the current time in the same way he chose the Jews of those days. So what I decided to when I read through it a second time was replace the word "Jew(s)" with the word "Adventist(s)" and replace the word "circumcised" with the words "Sabbath keeping".
The first thing I noticed right away is that it completely contextualized the book to where we are today. In fact I didn't get very far into the chapter before I was thinking on a totally different plain. For example, here is the first verse " What advantage then has the Adventist, or what is the profit of Sabbath keeping? Much in every way! Chiefly because to them were committed the teachings. of God". I found this to be insightful because I have seen some attitudes within Adventism which seem to lean towards the idea that only those who are Adventists and keep the Sabbath will be saved.
This chapter is wrapped up nicely when, if using this word replacement, when it says in verse 28 "Or is He the God of the Adventists only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles?" Although I didn't specifically come up with a word replacement for "Gentiles" I think it would be appropriate to use "other Christians" or "everyone else" in place of it.
Again, this is more of a devotional exercise rather than theological, but can you really separate devotion from theology, or vice versa? As we have been learning so far in class everything intertwines.
Assignment 3
The third article makes everything clear on the issue of what Ellen G White meant when she said in her writings that Jesus saved all human kind on the cross. Jesus didn’t literally saved everyone on the cross but rather through His death and defeating Satan He was creating a pathway between us and the Father so we can have the opportunity of being saved. We can either accept it and be saved or reject it. But Jesus didn’t save everyone regardless of what our decision was. It is all up to us, we now have the option of being redeemed. Due to the victory over Satan, Jesus was able to redeem Adam, which doesn’t even compare to the temptations that Satan threw against Jesus. I think this is very relevant and important for everyone to understand the plan of salvation.Lets remember that Adam and Eve did not even pass the first temptation (food) Jesus went all the way to defeat the devil... Later on in the article it states statements of Ellen G White in where she explains whether we were redeemed at the cross or not. The first quote explains in details that we belong to Jesus because not did He created us but also died so we could have the redemption. We accept that gift through demonstrating it through having obedience to God. Just because Jesus redeemed us at the cross doesn’t make us be with Him. It is not a gift that is forced upon us but rather to everyone who is willing to take it. The theory of a universal legal justification teaches that salvation comes to everyone even if they are living still in their sins and have not repented. “On the cross of Calvary He paid the redemption price of the race. And thus He gained the right to rescue the captives from the grasp of the great deceiver…” Here I notice that by Christ paying for us He now has the right to rescue us from Satan. And this was necessary as the article said Satan doesn’t let his people go free, and so with Christ death, now Christ has a right to redeem us. After we receive Jesus by “faith” is that we are “blessed with all spiritual blessing in heavenly places in Christ.” All of the comments that Ellen G White states clearly explain its not universal legal justification. People sometimes use that to back up there belief which its not biblical. I feel like the only reason a person will be lost is because they didn’t accept that gift of redemption that Christ offers us.
Response to Tyler
Man thanks for that tip, i read chapter 3 again doing that, and it makes good sense. We can really taste the chapter by contextualizing it.
I also like how Paul doesnt go to the extremes, and makes a fine line between both groups, ending with:
"31 Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law."
Only by loving Christ then the fulfillment of His law comes natural, not the way around.
And on your question i think its a matter of how you define devotion and theology.
Dario Ferreira
Doctrine of Salvation
Assignment #4
In Chapter 4, the Apostle Paul as if trying to prove what he had said in verse 21 of the previous chapter (chapter 3), that the righteousness of God was witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, then begins to narrate the story of Abraham, touching glimpse into David and the experience that both had with the justice of God. Being a friend of God (Is.41: 8), and have lived up to expectations of God (Gen 26:5), no one better than Abraham could present their works in order to gain the favor of God. But it was not because of his works that Abraham was accepted by God. He was accepted by his faith: “For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.”” (Rom. 4:3). His loyalty to the precepts of God, were the result of his unquestioning faith in God. When one works, it works expecting some sort of reward for their efforts. By practicing good works, man is seeking to be rewarded for it. Moreover, our good behavior does not put God as the debtor before us, but it is trust in Him who brings the blessing of justification. David became a classic example of the grace of God applied to him who has faith. David simply acknowledged that he was guilty and clung in faith to God's mercy. Circumcision was for the Jew, a visible sign of the covenant God made with Abraham. Therefore, in the mind of a Jew, only they were entitled to the privileges of the covenant. And now, Paul has challenged this statement by saying that Abraham was uncircumcised when he was justified by faith (1:9,10). Abraham was circumcised at least 13 years later (Gen. 17:24-26) that God has justified him (Gen. 15:1-6). One can conclude, therefore, by the words of the Apostle (1:9,10) that circumcision was only an outward sign of the state of just that God has bestowed him, long time before, as a result of their faith in Him. The justification of Abraham was not based on any merit or effort on his part (keeping the law), but his faith in God. Paul concludes chapter 4 of Romans by saying that the same justification, received by Abraham, is available to those who follow his example of faith, having the same quality of faith that Abraham had.
It became clear to me while reading the chapter 5 Whidden, that “the great controversy theme, with its emphasis on the balance Between Law and Grace” is the most doctrinal theme That Contribute to Ellen White's understanding about salvation. She presents this understanding succinctly in The Desired of Ages, in the chapter entitled, “It Is Finished” where she has three Satan’s complaints against the character and the government of God and God's answers to them. I am very impressed by the wonderful way God guided his people to go and revealing its truth at every step, as he did through his servant Ellen White.
The fourth paper on Salvation from Biblical Research Institute, “Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10”, written by Angel Rodriguez discusses understanding the last part of 1 Timothy 4:10 which says, “who is the savior of all men, especially of Those Who Believe.” Angel Rodriguez has three common understandings given to this passage. The dilemma is especially created for the word “especially” which apparently suggests that there is a group specially saved. None of the solutions proposed to solve the question, so the author proposes a possibility of understanding. Based on 1 Timothy 2:4, the author suggests that this text might say, in other words all God desires to be saved and necessary has done everything to save them, but he is the Savior of those who now believe.” I appreciated very much the position of Angel Rodriguez, on the understanding that text because it is based on context and does not contradict the biblical doctrine of salvation.
Response to Nick CLark : Assignment 4
I found it interesting how you expressed about the vision of Ellen White regarding the balance between law and grace. Have you compared what Paul says in Romans with what Ellen White wrote, “Gods’ grace and His moral government are inseparable.”
Like you, I also realized the convincingly that Paul talks about justification by faith, using the experience of faith of Abraham who was considered righteous not because of any thing he had done, but because he had a great faith.
Response to assignment#2 of Jayson Levy
Perfection is a "hot topic" nowadays, you have raised good questions, that I believe it would be good to discuss in class. Hopefully Professor Hannah would answer them. I believe we have to prepare ourselves pretty well with this topic, since there are many members in the church who believe in that.
blessings
Assignment #4
I was at the library, and a young guy who I played soccer with approached me and asked me:
“How would you response to this question?” the question was: “are Adventist sanctified before they are baptized or after they are baptized?”
I find it interesting that later on my reading on Romans chapter four would complete my answer for his question.
First I used Paul, saying that we have only one nature, then when we meet Christ and accept Him into our lives we start having two natures inside of us, the spiritual and the flesh one, and they do not get along, so it’s a constant fight. This fight doesn’t start with the baptismal, its starts when we invite Jesus to take over. The baptism is an external ceremony. I used the analogy of a wedding. We love our future wife before we get married. The wedding is a ceremony where I express my love for her in front of loved ones. You don’t get married and then love your wife, this happens before. (Of course this illustration would not work in India).
But after I answered his question, I came across chapter four of Romans which says:
9 Now, is this blessing only for the Jews, or is it also for uncircumcised Gentiles?[c] Well, we have been saying that Abraham was counted as righteous by God because of his faith. 10 But how did this happen? Was he counted as righteous only after he was circumcised, or was it before he was circumcised? Clearly, God accepted Abraham before he was circumcised!
11 Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous—even before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are counted as righteous because of their faith. 12 And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised."
I have not shown to the guy this verses. But i will.
God is so good to us. I am greatly thankful for Scripture.
What do you think? Did I go off with my answer?
Response to Dario Ferreira
assignment #4
Thanks for sharing that summary, it helped to understand chapter four in a better way.
The example of David is a good one, since even though he had committed adultery and even though he had committed murder.
God said about David "a man after Gods own heart"
because David walked with God, and like you said: "David simply acknowledged that he was guilty and clung in faith to God's mercy."
blessings
Alexander Rybachek
Doctrine of Salvation
Assignment #4
The third chapter of Romans is the last missing detail in the whole perspective of Paul on salvation. I like that Paul explains everything on different levels and in different ways. First two chapters Paul was describing the poor condition of the world: both Gentiles and Jews. Now in this third chapter Paul is saying that there are advantages in being Jew, but with the advantage comes more responsibility. Thus there is nothing about the advantage of being Jew in terms of salvation, but advantage of knowing more about God and privilege to represent Him in fuller light (Rom 3:2).
What Paul is saying further is remarkable: regardless of our faithfulness, God is always faithful. Indeed, we mess up all the time, but God - never. Thus if we say we keep the law, Romans chapter two says we really do not. But In chapter three we see that Paul is showing that all have sinned: Jews and Gentiles, and God saves everybody by grace: Jews and Gentiles.
This what the problem was with the Jews. They thought they were saved by keeping the law, but here we see that nobody is faithful except God. If we are not faithful and fall short of the glory of God, God's faithfulness covers our sins. This is the righteousness of God revealed to us: we are all sinners, but He declares us righteous if we believe His righteousness is sufficient to cover our sins. This is the righteousness through faith.
Paul is careful thou and says that nobody should take advantage of God's righteousness and sin more, so that God's righteousness and grace would multiply. No, this was not what he was trying to say. But what he was saying is basically that we have no merits before God, all were worthy of punishment, but God's righteousness was revealed in His faithfulness and grace. No one can stay before God and say: I am worthy. We are not worthy, but saved by grace. Thus there are advantages in being Jew, but when it comes to salvation nobody has any advantages: all are judged on the matter of faith. If you believe God's righteousness covers you – you are saved no matter who you are – Jew or Gentile. But it you do not believe that only God's righteousness saves you, if you hang on to your merits – you do not need God's grace and salvation, that means you are lost. I wonder where Paul goes further...
ASIGNMENT 1- NOTES ON ELLEN WHITE AND SALVATION BOOK:
As I started reading the book,” Ellen White on Salvation’, I was struck by the connection between her own experience and her understanding of the doctrine of Salvation. Her own struggle with the tension between Sin and Forgiveness and the outcome it has in one’s life defined her own opinion about salvation. Also along those lines she helped define the denomination approach to salvation as a doctrine.
I never saw it from the perspective that an experience of salvation was something that God provided for her so that it would be meaningful to understand how salvation works and teach it to the church. I guess I am figuring out that actually all the prophets and messengers God sent to his People also experienced something amazing sot that they would have credibility and conviction of the message they had to pass on. I am going to go as far as to say that without that experience it would have been really difficult for them to have credibility.
In Ellen White’s ordeal it was something progressive, something she had to study and contemplate in order to grasp the real meaning of Salvation for her and for all human beings. It was an amazing responsibility put on her and God allowed her to battle with different aspects and different points of view on Salvation, which contributed, for her to be even more convinced and solid in her belief that we are saved by faith in Jesus.
All the people that rebelled against her approach to Salvation only provided a testing ground for her beliefs, the solid foundation she had in scripture and the revelations of God made her a column holding all the pieces together and preserving the purity of doctrine we need in order to succeed as a movement turning into an organized church. Basically all of the doctrines we have in our Denomination today depended on her experience with salvation and her way to understand the love of God and how He forgives his children. Without a clear understanding of Salvation a church has no way for existence or basis to preach the gospel.
I see this book and all the struggles the denomination had in our history as a way to understand how God actually reveals his message, it is never given in a way that will not be controversial, it is necessary to have a debate in order to have a firm foundation and the wisdom that comes from a lot of minds working together to understand the eternal truth that comes from God.
ASSIGNMENT 1
Notes on the book “ ELLEN WHITE ON SALVATION” by Dr. Woodrow W. Whidden II
As I started reading the book,” Ellen White on Salvation’, I was struck by the connection between her own experience and her understanding of the doctrine of Salvation. Her own struggle with the tension between Sin and Forgiveness and the outcome it has in one’s life defined her own opinion about salvation. Also along those lines she helped define the denomination approach to salvation as a doctrine.
I never saw it from the perspective that an experience of salvation was something that God provided for her so that it would be meaningful to understand how salvation works and teach it to the church. I guess I am figuring out that actually all the prophets and messengers God sent to his People also experienced something amazing sot that they would have credibility and conviction of the message they had to pass on. I am going to go as far as to say that without that experience it would have been really difficult for them to have credibility.
In Ellen White’s ordeal it was something progressive, something she had to study and contemplate in order to grasp the real meaning of Salvation for her and for all human beings. It was an amazing responsibility put on her and God allowed her to battle with different aspects and different points of view on Salvation, which contributed, for her to be even more convinced and solid in her belief that we are saved by faith in Jesus.
All the people that rebelled against her approach to Salvation only provided a testing ground for her beliefs, the solid foundation she had in scripture and the revelations of God made her a column holding all the pieces together and preserving the purity of doctrine we need in order to succeed as a movement turning into an organized church. Basically all of the doctrines we have in our Denomination today depended on her experience with salvation and her way to understand the love of God and how He forgives his children. Without a clear understanding of Salvation a church has no way for existence or basis to preach the gospel.
I see this book and all the struggles the denomination had in our history as a way to understand how God actually reveals his message, it is never given in a way that will not be controversial, it is necessary to have a debate in order to have a firm foundation and the wisdom that comes from a lot of minds working together to understand the eternal truth that comes from God.
It’s interesting to read how seriously Ellen White struggled with her understanding of Salvation and Sanctification. The fact that she experienced such despair as a child that she “coveted death” is evidence of how deep her struggle was. It’s sad that she wrestled with such feelings of spiritual unworthiness even after she had given her life to Christ. The assurance of joy of Salvation evaded her for so long and caused her so much inner torment.
I had a similar experience early in my Christian experience. At times I felt the fear of being eternally lost. Rather than being excited about the Blessed Hope I dreaded that day. I felt like I would never be good enough for God. The fact is I was right in my thinking, at least in a way. We will never be good enough for God as long we are in this sinful flesh and that is why we need Jesus. In the words of Isaiah “all our righteousnesses is like filthy rags” (Isaiah 64:6). As Paul said “all have sinned and are coming short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). The problem is we sometimes focus on what we have to do to the point of despair forgetting that it’s about what God has done and will do in us. The promise is made in Philippians 1:6 “He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ.”
The other thing I found interesting chapter 2 of Whidden’s Ellen white on Salvation was the Ellen White’s concept of Sanctification. This concept is not new to me since I’ve been an Adventist for more than 10 years now. But as I consider sanctification, I notice that the word “sanctified” is used several times in the New Testament to refer to God’s people (1 Corinthians 1:2; 6:11; Hebrews 10:10; Jude 1:1). It seems as if the sanctification is referred to as a past event; something that has already happened rather than something that is happening. Now I don’t believe that anyone can claim sinlessness or absolute perfection and Ellen White didn’t either. That’s why “her ministry...would move her more and more to emphasize that sanctification was not the work of the moment, but that of a lifetime” (22). However, how do we harmonize the concept of sanctification as an ongoing process with the instances in the New Testament when God’s people are referred to as being “sanctified” as in it being a past event. Is the Bible referring to a different concept altogether or is the Bible referring to the beginning of Sanctification?
Jan Paulsen possibly provides an answer in his BRI article entitled Salvation By Faith. He states that “sanctification, though not identical to justification, is firmly embedded in that experience...one cannot be justified without simultaneously beginning the new life.” Maybe seeing the connection between Justification and Sanctification is the answer. Either way it’s something that’s caught my attention as I’ve come across passages that speak of God’s people being “sanctified.”
Assignment 1
It’s interesting to read how seriously Ellen White struggled with her understanding of Salvation and Sanctification. The fact that she experienced such despair as a child that she “coveted death” is evidence of how deep her struggle was. It’s sad that she wrestled with such feelings of spiritual unworthiness even after she had given her life to Christ. The assurance and joy of Salvation evaded her for so long and caused her so much inner torment.
I had a similar experience early on in my Christian walk. At times I felt the fear of being eternally lost. Rather than being excited about the Blessed Hope I dreaded that day. I felt like I would never be good enough for God. The fact is I was right in my thinking, at least in a way. We will never be good enough for God as long we are in this sinful flesh and that is why we need Jesus. In the words of Isaiah “all our righteousnesses is like filthy rags” (Isaiah 64:6). As Paul said “all have sinned and are coming short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). The problem is we sometimes focus on what we have to do to the point of despair forgetting that it’s about what God has done and will do in us. The promise is made in Philippians 1:6 “He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ.”
The other thing I found interesting chapter 2 of Whidden’s Ellen white on Salvation was the Ellen White’s concept of Sanctification. This concept is not new to me since I’ve been an Adventist for more than 10 years now. But as I consider sanctification, I notice that the word “sanctified” is used several times in the New Testament to refer to God’s people (1 Corinthians 1:2; 6:11; Hebrews 10:10; Jude 1:1). It seems as if the sanctification is referred to as a past event; something that has already happened rather than something that is happening. Now I don’t believe that anyone can claim sinlessness or absolute perfection and Ellen White didn’t either. That’s why “her ministry...would move her more and more to emphasize that sanctification was not the work of the moment, but that of a lifetime” (22). However, how do we harmonize the concept of sanctification as an ongoing process with the instances in the New Testament when God’s people are referred to as being “sanctified” as in it being a past event. Is the Bible referring to a different concept altogether or is the Bible referring to the beginning of Sanctification?
Jan Paulsen provides a possible answer in his BRI article entitled Salvation By Faith. He states that “sanctification, though not identical to justification, is firmly embedded in that experience...one cannot be justified without simultaneously beginning the new life.” Maybe seeing the connection between Justification and Sanctification is the answer. Either way it’s something that’s caught my attention as I’ve come across passages that speak of God’s people being “sanctified.”
Assignment 2
It’s mind boggling to me that a someone could actually come out and say that they are sinless. The fact that Brother B in chapter three of Whidden’s Ellen White On Salvation felt this way about himself is an indication that he was spiritually delusional. The Bible clearly states that “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us” (1 John 1:8). According to Ellen White, having such an attitude is also an indication that we are not very close to Christ. She says that “those who live nearest to Jesus discern most clearly the frailty and sinfulness of humanity, and their only hope is in the merit of a crucified and risen Saviour" (The Great Controversy, p. 471). The closer I am to Christ the more I become aware of my sins and short comings.
Christian perfection is easily misinterpreted. We need to understand that when Christ spoke of us being perfect as our father in Heaven is perfect (Matt.5:48) He wasn’t talking about being sinless. The immediate context of the passage is dealing with loving our enemies. Likewise the parallel passage, Luke 6:36, says “be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.” When Jesus is talking about perfection He is talking about loving as He loved and being merciful as He was merciful. It’s not about achieving a sinless state though we should always strive for Godliness and Godlikeness. Even the larger context of the Bible doesn’t present perfection as being sinless. As Edward Heppenstall explains in his BRI article entitled How Perfect Is "Perfect" Or Is Christian Perfection Possible? the meaning of Biblical perfection is “spiritual maturity, full grown spiritually, ripe in spiritual understanding, whole in response to God, keeping nothing back.”
As I read chapter three of Whidden’s Ellen White On Salvation I appreciated how Ellen White dealt with those who were on either side of the Biblical teaching of perfection. I respect her balance in upholding “the assurance of God’s acceptance through faith” (28) while maintaining a loyalty to God’s law. Ultimately, “faith without works is dead” (James 2:20) and if our hearts are truly circumcised (Romans 2:29) then we will bear the fruit of salvation in our lives.
What I liked most about Chapter three in Whidden’s Ellen White On Salvation was the final quote from Ellen White. She says that “Jesus loves to have us come to Him just as we are – sinful, helpless, dependant” (28). I found it comforting because regardless of how “perfect” we are, we all need the Saviour. We all have our moments when we fail, fall, and let both ourselves and God down. But knowing that we have such a loving Saviour and Heavenly Father gives us hope beyond ourselves.
Reading Chapetr 4 of Romans, Paul having settled the question as to how Abraham secured the righteousness of God, Paul proceeds to show that that is the only way anyone else can obtain righteousness.
"To him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly,his faith is counted for righteousness." Rom. 4:5.
What kindness! What great compassion! The Lord, who is "righteous in all
His ways," offers His own perfect righteousness to any and every poor, weak,
helpless, hopeless sinner who will believe what He says. Read it again:
"To him that worketh not, but believeth on Him, ... his faith is counted for righteousness."
So important, so fundamental is this way of righteousness that the apostle goes on through this entire chapter to restate and repeat and press home to all what he has made so clear in few words. Here are some of his statements:
"Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God
imputeth righteousness without works." Rom. 4:6.
"We say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness." Rom. 4:9
"And being fully persuaded that, what He had promised, He was able also to
perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not
written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; but for us also, to whom it
shall be imputed, if we believe on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
who was delivered for our offenses [sins], and was raised again for our justification
[righteousness]." Rom. 4:21-25.
This clear-cut, positive statement reveals to every lost soul for all time the
only way from sin and guilt and condemnation to righteousness and deliverance
from condemnation and death. With this agree all the other statements of the
Scriptures regarding this great problem of being made righteous.
The three words, "righteousness by faith," express the most wonderful trans-action in this material world which the human intellect can grasp. They express the greatest gift that God, in His infinite plenitude, could bestow upon mankind. The great fact expressed by this phrase of three words, has been studied, expounded, and rejoiced in by millions during the past ages, and it is still the theme of the most sublime interest and importance to the human family.
Reed Richardi
Assignment # 4
Some reflections after reading the article by Gerhard Pfandl Some Thoughts on Original Sin. This article was informative and challenging. The history of different beliefs in regards to original sin made me realize why the concept of original sin had always been a bit fuzzy in my brain; there are numerous slightly different views. I appreciated the brief sketch of the the development of the Adventist understanding of the concept. I thought it was interesting that even though the predominant early Adventist view (it seem s Ellen White was an exception), was lacking in that it saw only the physical effects of Adam’s sin as being passed down, it seems that it fit well with our understanding of the first and second death. The first death is a universal consequence of sin while the second death is a penalty for those sins not covered by the blood of Jesus. Thus they affirmed we inherited the first death from Adam but not the second. One question I have about the position of some early Adventist pioneers is whether or not they thought that we were each born in a morally neutral state like Adam. This would seem to be a very hard position to maintain. The quotes Pfandl uses by Ellen White later on make very plain what to me seems obvious; humans are born with a bent toward evil. Children (and adults) are like gardens where weeds grow naturally and easily but vegetables only with intention, work and the grace of God. Pfandl mentions that James White admitted to the depraved nature, but says nothing else about others who held the position. If they believed in the moral neutrality of man at birth, did they think that upon imitation of sin around us our nature became depraved? But if they did admit the inheritance of moral depravity, then how was this view substantially different than the later view supported by Ellen White?
I also found in interesting that viewing sin and the fall as separation from God is the framework from which the modern Adventist view of “original sin” is based. The implications for salvation are apparent. Take for example the following quote: Sin is not merely wrong acts and thoughts, but sinfulness as well, an inherent inner disposition inclining us to wrong acts and thoughts. Thus it is not simply that we are sinners because we sin; we sin because we are sinners” (Pfandl quoting Millard Erickson). If sin is more than just an act than in order to be saved I need more than justification, I need sanctification, I need transformation. I need not God not just to forgive my sins but to “have mercy on me a sinner” to “create in me a clean heart”. I need salvation not just because of what I do but because of who I am. I praise the Lord for Jesus Christ who became for me my righteousness, sanctification and redemption (1 Cor. 1:30)!
Reed Richardi
Response # 4 to Paulo Tenorio Assignment # 4
Paul I liked your response to the question about sanctification. I thought your illustrations were appropriate. Certainly Christ does not wait until baptism to begin His work of making us new creatures. This happens from the moment we are in Christ. Praise the Lord for His eagerness to do inside of us what we cannot do for ourselves.
Matthew Shallenberger
Assignment 3
Sinless perfection: is it attainable while we are still living on earth? This question has often caused much conversation, confusion, and even conflict in the Adventist church. Some will maintain the answer is yes; sinless perfection is possible and should be our goal. Others will argue the answer is no; we will never be completely sinless until we reach heaven. Both sides are equally insistent that their view is the correct one, and they both wield abundant quotations from Scripture and from Ellen White to defend their position.
I feel I have a better understanding of this issue now that I have read Chapter 4 in Ellen White on Salvation, along with Edward Heppenstall’s BRI article on perfection. In the book, Woodrow Whidden gives us a glimpse into the spiritual journeys of James and Ellen White. While some Adventists may quote Mrs. White’s writings to support their idea of sinless perfection, Whidden makes it clear that her view was balanced. She may have held up lofty goals for the Christian life, but she was always humble in speaking of her own journey. Mrs. White never made any claims to be sinless. Certainly she was striving toward Christ-likeness (and part of that would include sinlessness). But she never made any claims to have arrived at a perfect state.
Heppenstall’s article surveys both the Bible and Mrs. White’s writings on the issue of perfection. He too shows that while perfection is something Christians are to strive for, it is never something we can say we have attained. In a sense, perfection is more of a process than it is a destination. This is why we say sanctification is the work of a lifetime. It is not a state or a specific point in time at which we arrive; it is a journey of becoming more and more like Jesus every day.
Heppenstall takes a fairly strong stance on the issue of sinless perfection and argues that it is not possible while we are still living on earth. He makes a convincing argument and supports it with Scripture and Mrs. White’s writings. He shows that those who argue strongly in favor of sinless perfection are misinterpreting the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy. Heppenstall is no doubt arguing so strongly against the sinless perfection idea because many Adventists have taken this idea too far. But perhaps there is still a balance for which we should strive. Is sinless perfection our goal? Yes and no. On the one hand, we are striving to be like Jesus, who was sinless and perfect. So if He is our Example, then yes, sinless perfection is our goal. But on the other hand, is sinless perfection in and of itself the final goal? No. Being like Jesus is the goal! We ought not to be trying harder and harder to be sinless so we can say of ourselves, “I have arrived; I am sinless.” That would be pride—a grievous sin.
Here’s how I look at it: it is unimportant whether or not I can achieve a state of sinless perfection on this earth because even if I did I wouldn’t realize it. 1 John 1:8 is probably the clearest verse on this issue. It is, however, of vital importance that I strive to be like Jesus each and every day. It is important that I strive for perfection, for maturity, for completion. To paraphrase Paul, I ought to be a spiritual grown-up and not a spiritual baby. If I keep my focus on becoming like Jesus, He’ll take care of the rest. He will do the perfecting for me. The more I become like Him, the more I’ll realize how far I really have to go to truly be like Him. I will be painfully aware of my sinfulness the closer I get to Him. But if I keep my faith in Him, when Judgment Day comes I won’t have anything to worry about. He will have finished the good work He began in me, and I will be perfectly fit for heaven.
Response to Reed Richardi’s Assignment 3
Reed, your blog raised two very interesting questions in my mind. First: “If our works cannot qualify us for heaven can they disqualify us for heaven?” Your summary of the BRI article you read really piqued my curiosity about this. I’ll have to read that particular article; it sounds really good. What exactly is the nature of judgment according to our works, especially in light of the biblical teaching of salvation by grace through faith alone?
Secondly, you briefly discussed Jesus’ parable in Matt. 7:21-23. You said, “This shows me that God judges fruits and works not superficially as we might.” How very true that is. God sees things the way they really are, while our understanding of reality is quite shallow (which only further strengthens Jesus’ admonition at the beginning of Matt. 7 not to judge others). When Jesus returns there will be lost people who think they did all the right things. In their self-delusion, they’ll list off all the good works they did for Jesus, thinking their works will somehow qualify them for heaven. From God’s perspective, though, they were never really doing His will. That’s a sobering thought, and a reminder to us that we’d better make sure we’re really on track with the Lord. Self-delusion leads to self-destruction.
Then doctrine of substitution has been so far the explanation Protestantism has presented as regard to means of our salvation. Brought and led by the Reformers this doctrine was found to be the most accurate as far as comparing it with others models of salvation. But though correct the doctrine of substitution leaves some important issues which need to be addressed. Though the Bible clearly teaches that believing sinners are justified on the basis of the life and death of Jesus substituting for their own sinful life [sees Romans 10:4; Acts 13:39].
I am asking myself a question and I am honestly still wrestling with. If we consider these following verses:
Deuteronomy 24:16 “The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.”
2Kings 14:6, restates the same commandment, and Ezekiel expanded it in the eighteenth chapter from verse one to twenty, we can see that it will be contrary to His Law for God to put to death Jesus for the sins committed by us. I could God be just in justifying us, while we uphold the doctrine of substitution?
I do believe in the doctrine of substitution to be the most accurate, but unless we solve the internal ethical and legal issues that it brings up, we may have more difficulties in presenting as an acceptable and reasonable model of salvation
In other words, how can God justify sinners on the basis of what Christ did and still maintain His integrity to His own law which condemns us to death?
If we believe that the Law of God is founded on the principle of love, it will be hard for us to say that it will be easily satisfied just with the f=death on anybody or somebody. I believe the law wouldn’t have be satisfied unless it had seen the sinner, that is , the transgressor in Jesus. And in saying that I am not suggesting that Jesus had sinned, God forbid it, for if it were so He could pay for His own death, But I would rather suggest that Christ did not only stand merely as an individual among many, but also stood for many individuals. See Romans 5:12, 18; 1 Corinthians 15:21-22.
I think we need to reconsider and define somehow the idea that both Adams stand as representatives, and clearly define the nature of these representatives
Dr Hanna usually suggests wholistic approach in practically all the issues which are being tackled and presently on the Substitutionary atonement and the moral influence. I personally see this approach not so bad but rather wise and prudent. But I do still have a question, Are we supposed to approach views by their contents or by their intents? Because If we just go by the content I guess we just have to pick what is right in each views and make as he suggests a wholistic view, but if we go by the intent, I don't think that considering some positive aspect of moral influence for example will be something worth considering.
I do not know what you think, but I really need some light on this
Assignment #4
Again, the whole free-will/predestination can of worms is opened. It seems so central to the idea of salvation yet we seem to often delegate it to the periphery. It is amazing to me that I had not seen the total pervasiveness of this issue. Both from reading Romans and from Whidden’s chapter, as well as my work on the paper proposal for this class, this week I have been thinking more and more about this idea. I have come to a very basic understanding that thankfully from the reading of Whidden’s book seems to be in line with Ellen White’s thinking. We are so far lost that without God’s seeking we could never be saved and the main human response that will determine salvation is whether or not we will submit to be a part of the process of salvation which God has laid out. However, this basic understanding does not really fix the problems and really just brings to light more questions.
We can see that we are saved by grace, but do we all get equal amounts of grace? Do we all have an equal opportunity to participate in a personalized plan of salvation from God? How much of the choice to submit to Him is free and do we all have an equal chance to do this? If chances aren’t equal, will God hold people accountable in different levels because they had different opportunity? And if then there is accountability, what is it that we must do to be saved? If we have to do something to be saved, are we really saved by grace? What does “saved by grace through faith” really mean, and what then is faith?
The questions are just swirling through my mind and I hope that as time goes on I develop a better framework of understanding and find a way to make compatible a healthy seeking for the truth with a humble acknowledgement of the fact that I can’t really know all that much.
Response to Wazoua Serge Roger
I appreciate the fact that you are going to the Bible to deal with the issues and recognizing that there are some things we don't have figured out quite yet.
Also, I agree with the on the importance of defining terms, and how when we say things we have to have a good understanding of what it is we are really saying.
I tried to go through some materials written about the Moral Influence, I just wondered how could it be possible for someone to go through the Scriptures and came out to have in conclusion that Christ came to influence us morally that we may live our life according to God’s will.
Superficially there is nothing to say that Christ did in fact affect our lives. No one anywhere would deny that Jesus' life and death influenced us morally; I will not put it as the objective of His mission but an unavoidable consequence of it.
If Jesus' only mission was to show us how to live more moral lives, or even to show us how far love would go, there would have been no necessity for his death. It was just a stronger statement that way.
What the Moral Influence Theory leaves out is the whole Great Controversy, the charges against God, the reason that God had to let sin play out and his solution to the dilemma that the results of sin presented, the deceitfulness of our hearts, the bondage of sin Paul talked about, the all system of sacrificial services, sin as a present evil world, sin in its presence, sin in power to enslave, sin in its consequence. How could possibly mere influence be the mission of Christ on earth? In my opinion it was this larger context that required that Jesus suffer the consequences of sin to demonstrate the truth of God's diagnosis and the full nature of sin. I see no other way in which that could have been addressed that would not have left some crack of doubt about God and his government. Jesus' death was absolutely necessary for the whole problem of evil to be resolved. The Moral Influence Theory does not include that broad a scope and does not even intend to.
I always believe that the best way to undertake a successful study on the doctrine salvation, ( at least as far as human mind may reach) is to have a look at sin and to consider, what it does to us. Sin has a penalty which is eternal death, and which a mere moral influence cannot pay for; in other word there is no justification in morale influence theory. And we all know how justification is so crucial for sanctification, leave alone even glorification.
We can only see clearly in the Scriptures the model that God has used to save us, if consider what really the needs of humanity are: HAVING HIS WAGE PAID FOR, SAVING FROM THE POWER OF SIN AND TAKING OUT OF PRESENCE OF SIN, both outside and inside him.
True that Landon!
Assignment #4
Michael Jones
I read an article from the BRI by Edward Heppenstall, who had been the department chair of Systematic Theology at the seminary in the 1950’s and 1960’s. The article was entitled, “How Perfect Is Perfect Or Is Christian Perfection Possible?”
The article focused on righteousness and perfection. I found it very interesting. After reading the article, the first thing I wanted to settle in my mind was the definition of righteousness. There are several passages that piece it together for me. Deut 12:8, 28 respectively state, “You shall not do at all what we are doing here today, every man doing whatever is right in his own eyes” and “Be careful to listen to all these words which I command you, so that it may be well with you and your sons after you forever, for you will be doing what is good and right in the sight of the LORD your God.” This passage clearly states that it is safe to do what God says are right and not what man thinks is right. Isaiah adds another dimension of righteousness. “And all our righteousness are as filthy rags (64:6). It seems that despite doing what is right, it does not help make man right in the sight of God.
Mankind is in a dilemma. We are only to do what God says is right (Deut 12:28), yet the “righteous” things that we do bring nothing, but filth (Is 64:6). Praise God for the light we've been given in the NT.
Notice Paul’s words to the church at Philippi. “I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.” He makes it clear that our only way of attaining righteousness comes as enter in a faith-based relationship with Christ, accepting His righteousness.
Paul also stated in his letter to the Romans that Abraham entered into this relationship even when he was uncircumcised. He did not have the light of the New Testament, yet “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” (Rom 4:3; Gen 15:6). Later in the same chapter, Paul gives specific detailed about how Abraham received the righteousness that only God can give. “Being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform. Therefore IT WAS ALSO CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS (ROM 4:21, 22). Have we not also been given exceeding, great and precious promises? And how do I respond to these? How do you respond? This is where the rubber meets the road. This is where true Christianity is revealed, bearing fruit to the glory of God.
I found this article to line up beautifully with the Romans chapter 4. The word of God absolutely thrills my soul. Praise is to God! I, like Paul, rejoice because “I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day.”
Response to Landon Schnabel
Thank you for your article. I see that you have been contemplating the issue over many days. Your question 'If there is accountability issue what is it then that we must do to be saved?' is drawn from the fundamental Christian belief since 'reformation'. This is the very question with which people are wrestling because we all know that work has its due role in salvation. However, we need to be careful to answer to such a question because, our answer would be poor when a question rises with work as essential part of earning salvation.
Youngkyo Suh
Assignment #5
Probably, in Adam/in Christ concept in regards of salvation is most delicate issue which we should take. Many Christians that I have seen seem to have taken ‘we are all sinners in Adam but we are all saved in Christ’ for granted. They say this without thinking deeply. The more I think about this, the more I feel that I am falling into deep hole. In my last article, I raised a question saying, ‘aren’t we supposed to be righteous simultaneously when Jesus died on the Cross as we became sinners when Adam sinned?’ That gave me a big challenge in which I want to find an answer. In the conclusion of the last article I used an analogue of secular legal system where it says that you need to appeal in order to take an advantage that your government offers for free. Even if there is benefit available, if you don’t take it, you don’t get anything. Likewise, salvation is available for you through Jesus’ righteous act, but if you do not take it, you get nothing from it. If my reasoning is biblical, I would like to look at in Adam/in Christ concept in a similar way.
In ‘Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs’ by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, he argues that we are all sinners in Adam and we are saved in Christ. He says that thinking all human existence was already in Adam biologically is absurd and makes it even harder to grasp how Adams’ sin is our sin. Thus we need to understand this with theologically perspective too. We are born as human whether you like it or not. And our first parents fell into sin and you and I, once again whether you like it or not, are responsible in the ground of solidarity. But it is not like God puts sin in us as soon as we are born. The author says that ‘Romans 5:12-21 does not teach that Adam's sin was imputed to us. On the contrary the passage makes Adam responsible for his own sin’. Solidarity has to say to us more. We are creatures of God and we can’t complain why we are descendants of Adam. If we see this ultimate human state as very unique and important for revealing God’s loving character in the motif of great controversy, we could understand little better.
I want to add this. I certainly do not believe that there is only theological reason why we became sinner in Adam. Adam’s perfect physical, mental, and psychological state became degraded and its biological impact was on influence because we are his descendents.
On the other side, we have another motif ‘in Christ’. In Christ we are saved, regarded as righteous men. This obviously does not have to do with biological change. This has to do with theological concept or spiritual work.
Maybe in my next article, I will talk more about how these motifs work in overarching concept of salvation.
Youngkyo Suh
Assignment #5
Probably, in Adam/in Christ concept in regards of salvation is most delicate issue which we should take. Many Christians that I have seen seem to have taken ‘we are all sinners in Adam but we are all saved in Christ’ for granted. They say this without thinking deeply. The more I think about this, the more I feel that I am falling into deep hole. In my last article, I raised a question saying, ‘aren’t we supposed to be righteous simultaneously when Jesus died on the Cross as we became sinners when Adam sinned?’ That gave me a big challenge in which I want to find an answer. In the conclusion of the last article I used an analogue of secular legal system where it says that you need to appeal in order to take an advantage that your government offers for free. Even if there is benefit available, if you don’t take it, you don’t get anything. Likewise, salvation is available for you through Jesus’ righteous act, but if you do not take it, you get nothing from it. If my reasoning is biblical, I would like to look at in Adam/in Christ concept in a similar way.
In ‘Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs’ by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, he argues that we are all sinners in Adam and we are saved in Christ. He says that thinking all human existence was already in Adam biologically is absurd and makes it even harder to grasp how Adams’ sin is our sin. Thus we need to understand this with theologically perspective too. We are born as human whether you like it or not. And our first parents fell into sin and you and I, once again whether you like it or not, are responsible in the ground of solidarity. But it is not like God puts sin in us as soon as we are born. The author says that ‘Romans 5:12-21 does not teach that Adam's sin was imputed to us. On the contrary the passage makes Adam responsible for his own sin’. Solidarity has to say to us more. We are creatures of God and we can’t complain why we are descendants of Adam. If we see this ultimate human state as very unique and important for revealing God’s loving character in the motif of great controversy, we could understand little better.
I want to add this. I certainly do not believe that there is only theological reason why we became sinner in Adam. Adam’s perfect physical, mental, and psychological state became degraded and its biological impact was on influence because we are his descendents.
On the other side, we have another motif ‘in Christ’. In Christ we are saved, regarded as righteous men. This obviously does not have to do with biological change. This has to do with theological concept or spiritual work.
Maybe in my next article, I will talk more about how these motifs work in overarching concept of salvation.
Youngkyo Suh
Assignment #5
I agree with you my friend. I do not believe in original sin. Yet, i had always thought that we had inherit Adams sin. I found out later that this was wrong. What we inherit is the tendency, and the corruption.
Anyhow, good job
Assignment #5
I read “Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, his comments on the matter helped me to understand a little more what is our perspective on the subject of Adam and Christ of Romans 5.
This subject can be confusing if you want it to be. It took me a long time to understand it, as a teenager I had no idea what we believed as a church. By studying the subject and talking about it I was able to understand it. If this topic is not addressed correctly it can lead to some serious problems. Just how the 1888 Study Committee seemed to have problems to understand this concept. Which according to what Angel Manuel Rodriguez shares they were confused and their two theories on Adam in relation to the humans contradict each other. The first one is that everybody is in Adam as a trans-physical. In what sense does this happens? We don’t know, its not explained. The second one is the “imputation” of Adam’s sin. “According to this view, it was Adam who sinned but because of the solidarity between Adam and his descendants his sin was imputed to all of them. Because his sin was imputed to all of us we inherit corruption.” The problem like Rodriguez said is that they contradict each other which is true. His logic makes a lot of sense: “If we were in Adam when he sinned, his sin is our sin, we sinned in him. Hence there is no need to impute it to us because it is actually our sin.”
Then Rodriguez starts talking about the problem when we say we are “in Christ” the wrong interpretation that is given to it. If we were actually in Christ when He died, then we died for ourselves and not Christ for us. We are taking Jesus substitution!
I like his last words: “It is necessary to return to the biblical understanding of those important expressions in order to avoid potential heresies. If that is done the concept of a universal legal justification would be found to lack biblical support.”
Now changing to chapter 5 of Romans is amazing to see that “problems” actually work for the good of your Salvation, so when running into problems, rejoice! It sound weird, but that’s what the Bible says! (verse 3 and 4)
It was a blessing to study that chapter, to know that we have been restored into a friendship with God through Jesus Christ it’s a joy. I can call God my friend thanks to Jesus. Now even though Jesus was divine, He was also a descendant of David and Abraham. The human side where He can understand us is there. Jesus was unique, “Divine” and “human” at the same time.
Anyhow verses 18 and 19 can get a little complicated, I will wait for the class to comment on these, there is much to discuss.
But something is clear: “that Paul did not know anything about a legal universal justification according to which every human being was simultaneously present in Christ at the moment he died on the cross.”
Assignment #5
I read “Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, his comments on the matter helped me to understand a little more what is our perspective on the subject of Adam and Christ of Romans 5.
This subject can be confusing if you want it to be. It took me a long time to understand it, as a teenager I had no idea what we believed as a church. By studying the subject and talking about it I was able to understand it. If this topic is not addressed correctly it can lead to some serious problems. Just how the 1888 Study Committee seemed to have problems to understand this concept. Which according to what Angel Manuel Rodriguez shares they were confused and their two theories on Adam in relation to the humans contradict each other. The first one is that everybody is in Adam as a trans-physical. In what sense does this happens? We don’t know, its not explained. The second one is the “imputation” of Adam’s sin. “According to this view, it was Adam who sinned but because of the solidarity between Adam and his descendants his sin was imputed to all of them. Because his sin was imputed to all of us we inherit corruption.” The problem like Rodriguez said is that they contradict each other which is true. His logic makes a lot of sense: “If we were in Adam when he sinned, his sin is our sin, we sinned in him. Hence there is no need to impute it to us because it is actually our sin.”
Then Rodriguez starts talking about the problem when we say we are “in Christ” the wrong interpretation that is given to it. If we were actually in Christ when He died, then we died for ourselves and not Christ for us. We are taking Jesus substitution!
I like his last words: “It is necessary to return to the biblical understanding of those important expressions in order to avoid potential heresies. If that is done the concept of a universal legal justification would be found to lack biblical support.”
Now changing to chapter 5 of Romans is amazing to see that “problems” actually work for the good of your Salvation, so when running into problems, rejoice! It sound weird, but that’s what the Bible says! (verse 3 and 4)
It was a blessing to study that chapter, to know that we have been restored into a friendship with God through Jesus Christ it’s a joy. I can call God my friend thanks to Jesus. Now even though Jesus was divine, He was also a descendant of David and Abraham. The human side where He can understand us is there. Jesus was unique, “Divine” and “human” at the same time.
Anyhow verses 18 and 19 can get a little complicated, I will wait for the class to comment on these, there is much to discuss.
But something is clear: “that Paul did not know anything about a legal universal justification according to which every human being was simultaneously present in Christ at the moment he died on the cross.”
Assignment 5
A few years ago, I had a friend (or, more accurately, a friend-of-a-friend) who had some major problems with sin. Of course, we all do—or at least, those of us who will admit it. But this young man suffered from a major problem with sin because of a faulty theological foundation.
The actual behavior in question is not really significant. It will suffice to say that it was an obvious sin problem, under the jurisdiction of civil law, which eventually snowballed into a short stint in jail and the loss of his marriage.
But every time my friend would sin, he would wonder, “Why does God allow me to do this? I want to stop… why do I keep doing it? Why doesn’t God just prevent me from doing it” He was still a relatively new Christian and still was not very well grounded in his faith. He became upset at God over this problem and didn’t understand why God would allow this to happen.
I myself have asked similar questions and lamented, with Paul, that “I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing” (Rom. 7:19, TNIV). However, I have always recognized that the things I do are my own choice. I can wonder about why I do things, but I can never blame anyone else for the choices I make.
My friend might have benefited from considering the topic that Whidden addresses in ch. 6 of Ellen White on Salvation. Ellen White points out that we can strive toward obedience and character perfection, but we always have sin dwelling within us, which we have inherited from every one of our ancestors, all the way back to Adam. This capital “S” Sin is referred to by her as inherited sinful “propensities,” “inclinations,” and “tendencies,” (Qtd. in Whidden, 41). She says, “We must remember that our hearts are naturally depraved and we are unable of ourselves to pursue a right course” (IHP 163). Whidden says, “In the thought of Ellen White we humans come into the world as tragically damaged goods, not simply unfortunate babes into the woods who suffer lapses of memory and numerous little mistakes. We are seriously depraved and corrupted!” (42).
This depravity, while not overriding our free will or rendering us incapable of even accepting God’s free grace, does war against our Spirit-given desire to live lives of obedience. Unfortunately, this warring that takes place inside us does not go away short of our final glorification when Jesus returns for the redeemed.
What Whidden notes on p. 44 is especially poignant: “Human ‘corruption’ and depravity always leave the stench of ‘earthly odor’ on even the best that believers can produce. This stench makes their works meritoriously unacceptable.” In other words, even the good things that we think we do are actually saturated in selfishness. While this might lead us to despair, we must recognize that Christ’s “untainted” nature saves us not only from our “sins,” but also from our “Sin.” We can have nothing to take pride in of ourselves. Christ must be our all.
Alicia Johnston
Assignment #4
I read Chapter 4 of Whidden this week. I really enjoy this book. The chapter is entitled “Salvation, the Great Controversy Theme, Closing Events, and the Law.” In it, Whidden made a brief overview of Ellen White’s theology in areas related to salvation in order to point out how her doctrine of salvation related to other doctrines.
One thing I appreciated is that, in view of her eschatology, she sees salvation as an urgent matter. That is something that we as Adventists can really get behind. God is coming soon so don’t delay!
I have always had trouble with the statements he quoted from the Great Controversy about standing before the Holy God w/o a mediator and having to have the perfected character of Christ in order to stand. It has been used by people I strongly disagree with to imply that we need to be sinless in the last days and that we will stand on our merit instead of grace. I like that she said in one of her statements that those people will have to have spotless robes that are sprinkled with the blood of sacrifice. It is God and not us that will accomplish what needs to be accomplished. All we have ever had to do is look to Jesus.
Outside of class, I’ve also been reading Steps to Christ. There is a statement there that struck me. She says that Jesus came to restore the image of the father, not as an angry God who wants to punish us, but as a loving God who is trying to save us. That makes a lot of sense within the Great Controversy theme mentioned in this chapter. The Enemy is trying to make God out to be of a different character that the reality. Jesus comes to show us that God is love and correct the misconceptions of the Father that are so prevalent. But sadly those images still persist. People still talk about God the father having to have his wrath appeased by the death of his son. That’s not a good father, even by earthly standards.
One of the things I love about Adventism and that was brought out in this chapter is that the law remains important. The law is a revelation of God, and if it were not important, Jesus would not have had to die. The Great Controversy theme is beautiful in that it brings out the importance of the law without compromising Grace.
Response #4
@ Michael Jones
I appreciate your perspective. It is all about what Christ does in us. I have to say, though, that in my reading that is in the OT as well as the NT. In fact, I would say that the apostle Paul got it from the OT and preached it from the OT. That's a minor point, though, compared with the overall message of your post. It's all about Jesus! Thanks.
Doctrine of Salvation Reflection assignment 4
Sept. 27, 2010 Michael Liu
Reflection from reading the essay The Dynamics of Salvation from BRI.
The passage mention the message of third angel’s message centers in justification by faith. So what is it? In reading of the context of the Evangelism I can find more detail of its meaning. The message which was to focus our eyes on the uplifted Saviour. In the message the efficacy of the blood of Christ was to be presented with freshness and power, that the hearer’s faith might lay hold upon its merits. The proclamation of this third angel’s message must be attended with the outpouring of His Spirit in a large measure which becomes an abiding influence. The result is made manifest in obedience to all commandments of God. Through divine transforming process accompanied by sincere repentance and the true devotion, the original propensities to sin in the heart with all their strength can be broken. Ev. 190,192 His gracious activity which save us at the same time vindicate His character and law. In the act of Christ in dying for salvation of man in the same time it would justify God and His Son in their dealing with the rebellion of Satan before all the universe. It would establish the perpetuity of the law of God and would reveal the nature and the results of sin. {PP 68.2}
Sin is not a light thing, and God does not lightly pass over it, God meets the demands of a broken law. God is just and justifier of him who believes in Jesus only through the cross. Phil.2:8 (TDS) He established the law’s justice demand in our behalf.
We need to proclaim the Third angel’s message in the context of the final events of earth’s history and of Christ’s ministry in heaven. (TDS p.2) The ministry of Christ in heaven has to do with making His sacrifice effective in human race by asking the Holy Spirit to be sent out to the world. It is the Holy Spirit that prompted the will of men and women so we can to respond to the good news. So the passage said in this way the ministry of Jesus is perpetuated. (TDS)
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Response to Wazoua Serge Roger on Moral Influence theory
Moral Influence has it point in transform people’s life in a powerful way as we behold the love of Christ, we become changed in a divine assigned way. This only deal with the sanctification part. The problem of this theory lies on using part of the Bible teaching and missing the part talking about legal justification which is the root of our salvation. Greater still if we are to look at the salvation in the great controversy view that make the whole things about suffering and the character of God in a more meaningful way.
“This message was to bring more prominently before the world the uplifted Saviour, the sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. It presented justification through faith in the Surety; it invited the people to receive the righteousness of Christ, which is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. Many had lost sight of Jesus. They needed to have their eyes directed to His divine person, His merits, and His changeless love for the human family. All power is given into His hands, that He may dispense rich gifts unto men, imparting the priceless gift of His own righteousness to the helpless human agent. This is the message that God commanded to be given to the world. It is the third angel's message, which is to be proclaimed with a loud voice, and attended with the outpouring of His Spirit in a large measure…The efficacy of the blood of Christ was to be presented to the people with freshness and power, that their faith might lay hold upon its merits.” Ev. 190
“When the third angel's message is preached as it should be, power attends its
proclamation, and it becomes an abiding influence. It must be attended with divine power, or it will accomplish nothing. “ Ev. 192
Doctrine of Salvation Reflection assignment 4
Sept. 27, 2010 Michael Liu
Reflection from reading the essay The Dynamics of Salvation from BRI.
The passage mention the message of third angel’s message centers in justification by faith. So what is it? In reading of the context of the Evangelism I can find more detail of its meaning. The message which was to focus our eyes on the uplifted Saviour. In the message the efficacy of the blood of Christ was to be presented with freshness and power, that the hearer’s faith might lay hold upon its merits. The proclamation of this third angel’s message must be attended with the outpouring of His Spirit in a large measure which becomes an abiding influence. The result is made manifest in obedience to all commandments of God. Through divine transforming process accompanied by sincere repentance and the true devotion, the original propensities to sin in the heart with all their strength can be broken. Ev. 190,192 His gracious activity which save us at the same time vindicate His character and law. In the act of Christ in dying for salvation of man in the same time it would justify God and His Son in their dealing with the rebellion of Satan before all the universe. It would establish the perpetuity of the law of God and would reveal the nature and the results of sin. {PP 68.2}
Sin is not a light thing, and God does not lightly pass over it, God meets the demands of a broken law. God is just and justifier of him who believes in Jesus only through the cross. Phil.2:8 (TDS) He established the law’s justice demand in our behalf.
We need to proclaim the Third angel’s message in the context of the final events of earth’s history and of Christ’s ministry in heaven. (TDS p.2) The ministry of Christ in heaven has to do with making His sacrifice effective in human race by asking the Holy Spirit to be sent out to the world. It is the Holy Spirit that prompted the will of men and women so we can to respond to the good news. So the passage said in this way the ministry of Jesus is perpetuated. (TDS)
¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬_____________________________________________________________________
Reflection on Wazoua Serge Roger on Moral Influence theory
Moral Influence has it point in transform people’s life in a powerful way as we behold the love of Christ, we become changed in a divine assigned way. This only deal with the sanctification part. The problem of this theory lies on using part of the Bible teaching and missing the part talking about legal justification which is the root of our salvation. Greater still if we are to look at the salvation in the great controversy view that make the whole things about suffering and the character of God in a more meaningful way.
“This message was to bring more prominently before the world the uplifted Saviour, the sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. It presented justification through faith in the Surety; it invited the people to receive the righteousness of Christ, which is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. Many had lost sight of Jesus. They needed to have their eyes directed to His divine person, His merits, and His changeless love for the human family. All power is given into His hands, that He may dispense rich gifts unto men, imparting the priceless gift of His own righteousness to the helpless human agent. This is the message that God commanded to be given to the world. It is the third angel's message, which is to be proclaimed with a loud voice, and attended with the outpouring of His Spirit in a large measure…The efficacy of the blood of Christ was to be presented to the people with freshness and power, that their faith might lay hold upon its merits.” Ev. 190
“When the third angel's message is preached as it should be, power attends its
proclamation, and it becomes an abiding influence. It must be attended with divine power, or it will accomplish nothing. “ Ev. 192
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