Comments on Assignments for Understanding the Christian World, Fall 2008
This thread is reserved for your comments and ongoing discussion regarding the assignments posted in the previous thread.
38 comments:
Anonymous
said...
I am Evangelista and I want to comment in what Michaela wrote. I agree with you that there are many details that contibute to our momentarily lost in this world. I was one of those Christian that before to know SDA visited so many churches at the same time searching the truth. Today I feel that in these 20 years being Adventist the Lord have brought me to the right light of knowledge where I every day find that I am the worst sinner of the world because of knowledge.
My remark/comment is on Evangelista's comment. Well written and we are to emulate Jesus in His humbleness. Humility is the Key to the hearts of those who know Him.
I must say I have enjoyed reading the comments of my classmates. Especially those of my classmates Josian Frampton and Fred Mainda. They have sparked my critical thinking. How would I present Christ to someone who does not believe in the Bible? They believe there is a God, they believe Christ existed but have a hard time accepting the written Word of God. Any suggestions?
Re: “Diamonds Aren’t Only a Girl’s Best Friend” by Simona Mills
Simona, I don't know if you realize it but the very way in which you wrote about treasuring knowledge is an example of what so many in our world need to hear. It is truth contextualized to your experience, not watered down or sensationalized. Based on what I know of you, I know that you mean what you're saying and not simply reaching for a catch phrase.
When God's word reaches us, we must speak about it with words that are real to us.
I really agree that much of our study of Scripture is a product of the wrestling, thinking and praying that previous believers have done.
When it comes to understanding the Christian world I think it is easy for us to fall into the trap that "other" Christians are not on a journey of wrestling with Scripture. While this may be true of some I believe that there are many believers who are searching as desperately as we are to understand more of God's revelation.
My personal challenge as a minister is to be open to questions and also creative enough to express revealed truth in a way that will aid not hinder a person's search for truth. When I think about this challenge... I need to pray!
This is in response to Michaela lawrence's post on chapter 1 of Cosmic Christ.
"While I want to be able to clearly explain to a nominal Christian friend how the Bible can be primary along with Christ and the cosmos, I also want to be able to know what my friend really needs to hear from me and I want my knowledge of these three primacies to transform me in such a way that I become a better witness whether or not I share these specific ideas."
This statement has never been more true than it is for us today. it seems that we can become so caught up with reading books and studying for tests that sometime we overlook the fact that this information is not just for our benefit but for others also. We need to understand these primacies so that when the situation arises and I do mean when we will be able to not just regurgitate information but to make it real to the people around us that are seeking for answers to real life questions. Thank you for the post Michaela.
Comment on Rommel C. I agree with Rommel in that there has been a tendency to speak for Scriptures instead of letting Scripture speak for itself. In my own experience I still have to shake off things that were said to me that were not Scriptural but are still a part of me since I grew up hearing it. I pray that we will be careful when speaking especially to younger persons as what we say as leaders has such a huge affect. I also want to affirm what Rommel has pointed out that we do injustice to God to deny that that God has revealed Himself extra-Biblically. Especially in our time if we recognize that God has spoken in the Cosmos, we can look at the same evidence that evolutionists are using and instead use them to affirm that God did create the world in 6 days and that Jesus has died for us to redeem us from our fall into sin.
This is in response to "Wise" post on Chapter 2&3, The Cosmic Christ of Scripture.
While I agree with what you've said, I must say that I hadn't even thought about the high significance of Scripture until I started studying here in the Seminary. It just wasn't an issue I'd thought about before and the same can be said for many things I've studied here. I've found myself thinking, "Oh, okay, that's a problem?" on many occasions so I wonder how we can address these sorts of issues in our churches in a way that really helps people wake up and see that oh yeah, this is an issue and here's why I should study it.
Having these sorts of discussions can help people better recognize their root problems. For example, someone may think they have an issue with Jesus when what they really have an issue with is their limited knowledge of Scripture. If they knew more about what the OT says regarding prophecy, they'd know more about Jesus and things would make more sense all around.
That probably sounds a bit simplistic but I think you get my point. It's not enough to tell people that Scripture is the rule for faith and practice when they've never even wondered about it. What are people wondering about?
Wrestling with such theological concepts as "Could Jesus have had a mother?" while my young students grapple with divorce, gender confusion, and broken hearts; and children around the world starve to death every 3 seconds...well, it seems rather irrelevant.
On the surface.
I have struggled with disillusionment as to the importance of such endeavors; yet through the years, I've realized that the exercising of my mind in theology has matured it. I believe each discussion, each effort to study however clumsy, has served to stretch my mind (and yes, even my heart at times) into new dimensions. These experiences make us who we are, and we teach/preach/serve through the persons we are becoming.
So even though a seemingly irrelevant theological discussion has little, if any, direct impact on our present or future ministries, together with the rest of our life experiences it can and does shape us, form us, into deeper, richer more thoughtful and reflective human beings. When I recognize this growth in me (all-too-seldom, since it's definitely slow-grow), I am grateful.
And then disillusioned again. :)
In any case, it helps me to remember the wisdom of Ecclesiastes and Jesus: Darchelle, take your opportunities--all of them--and embrace them fully and multiply them responsibly. And trust that God weaves even the most seemingly irrelevant threads into the tapestry of you; a tapestry that adds beauty, warmth, and intelligence to whatever corner of this desperate world He sends you to.
I love the way how you describe the work of Jesus and how you undestand about how humble he is. that he came from his office in heaven and give us a business card, phone number, etc. Yes, I agree with you He has given us instruction and I would say some little more and is that he does not obligate us to follow him. It is volunteer. Thank you for let your door open if we have some question about your comment, but it was nice and clear. God bless you.
A response to Evangelista Polanco's comments on Christology - By Simona Mills I am intrigued to know that you were once a Gnostic. Your comment on Who Jesus is, come more alive for me. I feel the passion and conviction of your words. Thank you for your comments. I too want to have a mind that is willing and open to Jesus Christ.
In Response to Darchele's "Who Is God?: Thoughts on the Journey to Enlightenment"
I too am grateful for the insight that we have because of the centuries of theological reflection. I do believe that "theology cannot be neatly packaged" as you so aptly stated.
The inner struggle as a young person and also as a theology-student is having so many questions and wanting to address and even answer all of them. The discipline that we excercise in learning is that we may begin to address some of the issues but not arrive at answers immedietly or even in the near future.
As we all reflect and grapple with the issues raised in class I hope we can all remind each other that we must struggle with the difficult questions but sometimes it's okay not to have the answers.
I would like to adress Morumbwa Dickson it is truly ashame that such confusion has taken place through out the ages in reference to the divinity of Jesus. The bible is indeed clear as to who Jesus is. I am afriad that many still wrestle with the divinity and humsity of Christ. I remember on preacher saying if you try to explain it you will lose your mind but if you fail to believe it you’ll lose your soul. We can not explain everything in the word of God and the Lord even gives us room to grow in our understanding but when we allow doubt to unsettle our faith we step into a very dangerous realm. May God keep us all on the right path.
I am commenting to Janice De-Whyte, we are facing a very interesting challenge as Seventh-day Adventist ministers. Some times if feel our role as ministers is to perform a high wire balancing act balancing between the scriptures as our guide and the role of Ellen White and her writings. What is more concerning is that many spectators in our congregation are waiting to see if we are going to fall off of the ropes. At least that’s the way I see it sometimes. One of the things that I appreciate about the seminary is the perspective that they place on her Ellen White’s writings and how to help the parishioners to rightly read her writings. I must admit I believe we are privileged to have a prophet for our church. But at the same time I believe in her final statement at the last General Conference she would attend she states: “Brethren and sisters, I commend unto you this Book.” May God help us to find the balance that will help others to become healthy, well balanced, and mature Christians.
I like the multiple applications of ‘glasses’ and ‘mirror’ on Simona Mill’s posting. The “glasses of scripture” is used to see the sharp image of loving Creator, Savior, King, and Friend. The use of “windex of scripture” as to make the mirror of life keep shining and reflecting the beautiful image of God. And the “mirror of redemption” that reflects the love of God to humankind. I would say that this is the one that was stained by the blood of sacrificial Lamb of God. It’s wonderful!
Nathan, I resonate with what you've said regarding how we define the church. I particularly struggle with how we define the church because so many people are no longer "doing church" in a traditional sense and our Adventist definition of church is so closely tied to practice. In other words, being remnant means doing things a certain way.
When we consider the other sheep Christ has, we can't be too narrow in our definition of the church but I fear becoming too broad also because I definitely believe that loving God manifests itself in certain ways. However, maybe that's part of the problem. Maybe I need to stop looking for a specific manifestation as it often leads to an exaggerated focus on works.
"Our perceived need for God is intricately tied to our understanding of the very nature of sin." -ML
Well said. How true this is. And how well I have experienced the self-righteous stance without even realizing it. Aweful. Miserable state. I spend my days right-fighting and standing in judgment over my fellow travelers who, in their humility or even their lack of humility are better off than I am (even in my groveling I am judging, eh?!).
This principle resonates with Christians, to be sure. At least it should. But what to do about our state of unawares? Of course it is imperative that we look to Jesus. In meditating on Him we see our flawed condition worsen by the second. And in the process of reflection and confession--even if it is at first a wooden process for us--we begin to live from our heart, which inevitably draws us into the state of inner affairs.
And thirdly...we enter into authentic community. Here lies a passion of mine. As we find emotionally safe, devoted and loving fellow Christians with whom we can practice authenticity and from whom we receive honest, non-judgmental feedback, I believe we will begin to experience true relationships with others, which in turn, will awaken our hearts (or scare us off until we're finally ready...). In this awakening, we will be "coaxed" off our high horses and then begin to see just how we really are.
And this is where the beauty begins! This is where a hardened ego may soften and then experience awakening which can then lead to regret, remorse. And ultimately, in relationship, this soul may be directed to Jesus for forgiveness and life--and she'll be ready for it because she's experienced it among the *body of Christ*.
The issues surrounding the ecclesiological controversy during Christianity's early years draw our attention to issues that still must be addressed. But in caring for our governance needs, let's please not neglect the crucial, foundational need to have and be in authentic community as we seek to understand our need of Christ.
Evangelista Polanco, Comment on Nathan's Reflection.
I agree with you Nathan "the prophet" Science is far away to understand that the Bible has already described "Science" in all of the sense of the word. This situation reminds me the words of Solomon: "Wisdom do not come from this world, but from those who follow, and live the life that the Creator has command us." (my words) Also, Paul comment "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse." (Romans 1:20)
I find quite again to be reminded by Evangelista about salvation. our works cannot save us alone but it must be accompanied by faith. i wish we all accept this simple fact.
I find it interesting again to be reminded by Evangelista about salvation. our works cannot save us alone but it must be accompanied by faith. i wish we all accept this simple fact.
I am afraid that so many of us find ourselves in the same predicament as the deacon. Although our situation may not be to that extreme far to often man of us find ourselves reacting instead of responding in patience and kindness. The apostle says, "Let this mind be in you that was also in Christ Jesus." If we would study our master I respones in life would be a lot less different and maybe many more people would be attracted to the Christ dwelling in us.
I appreciate the desire expressed in this entry for the Adventist church to seek balance. I also question whether it is "balance" we need....
Is it a balance of "We've got the truth" and "We love"? It sounds good, and perhaps this is the way to put it. I wonder, however, if it should not be a balancing act, but a priorities readjustment (I'm not even sure this suffices, but I'll give it a go :).
Love is the starting point. Love is truth, and truth is love. So the two, truth and love, are inextricable. Inseparable. they are one. So as our church surrenders it's heart and soul to the God who is Love, as we open wide for His grace to filter through our muck and begin the miracle of growth, then the seeds of truth (also a grace--thanks, Augustine) would sprout, burst through that muck, and pressed forward. But all the while that spark of life, LOVE, sustaining the seedling as it matures.
Love is our starting point, not something we use to lessen the weight of a "We've got the truth" load. That kind of a balancing act is...a burden. It's a trick. It's something we're always beating ourselves up over because...we never seem to get the perfect (or near-perfect) balance. Because we can't. I might even question a love toward others that's trying to "subdue" the power of the truth we carry around on our SDA scales. While sympathizing and appreciating any effort at loving others (I know my own dark heart), in my weariness, I'm drawn back to the beginning of what even *gave* me the *desire* for truth: Love.
No, it cannot be a balancing act, but something more along the lines of returning to our First Love....
I appreciate the desire expressed in this entry for the Adventist church to seek balance. I also question whether it is "balance" we need....
Is it a balance of "We've got the truth" and "We love"? It sounds good, and perhaps this is the way to put it. I wonder, however, if it should not be a balancing act, but a priorities readjustment (I'm not even sure this suffices, but I'll give it a go :).
Love is the starting point. Love is truth, and truth is love. So the two, truth and love, are inextricable. Inseparable. they are one. So as our church surrenders it's heart and soul to the God who is Love, as we open wide for His grace to filter through our muck and begin the miracle of growth, then the seeds of truth (also a grace--thanks, Augustine) would sprout, burst through that muck, and pressed forward. But all the while that spark of life, LOVE, sustaining the seedling as it matures.
Love is our starting point, not something we use to lessen the weight of a "We've got the truth" load. That kind of a balancing act is...a burden. It's a trick. It's something we're always beating ourselves up over because...we never seem to get the perfect (or near-perfect) balance. Because we can't. I might even question a love toward others that's trying to "subdue" the power of the truth we carry around on our SDA scales. While sympathizing and appreciating any effort at loving others (I know my own dark heart), in my weariness, I'm drawn back to the beginning of what even *gave* me the *desire* for truth: Love.
No, it cannot be a balancing act, but something more along the lines of returning to our First Love....
A response to Janice De-Whyte’s Theological Turning Points Chapter 7 & 8: Sacramental Controversy Blog.
I enjoyed reading your comment and would like to chime in about the lost awe in the Lord’s Supper particularly the foot washing. I just came back from NYC where my church had communion. It has now become a common practice among the young people to not participate in the foot washing and only take communion. One teenager told his mother in my presence “I don’t do feet”. She turned to me and said her son has issues with touching other people’s feet and its worse when its men. She laughed and walked off leaving me bewildered and disappointed that we have placed foot washing in "optional" pile of our Christian walk. We really need to go back to basics in the way we teach and minister to our young and old. I also know a grown man, married with kids who will not touch feet except his own. He told me that they (the church) are lucky he even takes communion. Wow! What happens when LUCK RUNS OUT?!
Reponse to Dani Carmona's discussion on The Trinity.
Dani, you stated earlier that we need to remember the Holy Spirit is not an "it" but a "person". I believe that in my learning about the Godhead this has been a fundamental truth. I no longer think of the Holy Spirit as a life-force or the breath/power of God.
I think your honesty about your childhood views about the Holy Spirit was good!
Perhaps the different childhood views that each one of us held onto was reflective of the fact that the mystery of God is hard to explain. Perhaps the Sabbath School teachers/Parents/Pastors just couldn't find the right imagery for Kindergarten and Primary class children!
As someone who serves with children and youth I am being reminded constantly through our discussions in class that sometimes in trying to explain mysteries we may end up giving the wrong images to others.
Still, its comforting to know that God is very patient with us and our imaginary pictures of him:-)
Re. Janice De-Whyte's words on Theological Turning Points Chapter 7 & 8
Janice, your words have reminded me of Simona's presentation and the link between baptism and marriage. Perhaps as we explain baptism to people (no matter the age but esp young people) we should emphasize the the beauty of the ceremony and the need for work after that moment has ended. And maybe we should create some sort of simulation time to see if they really want to commit to the journey ahead :)
There's a part of me that wants to keep the act of baptism as far from mysticism as possible simply because I had mystical expectations as a 14-yr-old that were completely disappointed when nothing "happened."
Clearly there are no easy solutions but we certainly need to talk about it all a lot more and a lot more from our own experiences. I think we do each other a great disservice when we speak only from the Bible and very little from our own witness.
I like the comment of Romel Charles, In “The Cosmic Christ of Scripture” chapter three. He says “We as students of the Word of God need to understand that just as the God head is made up of three but are yet one, we need to see the revelations of God as one also although they three. IF only we stop and listen to the Holy Scriptures then and only then will there be new light in old lamps.” Good comment.
I have read Robert Siby's comment about the images of the church which the author presents and agree with him. Good comment Robert. However, did you get any new insight from the author on these common passages?
I like reading Philip Dah comments on Chapter 7 of The Cosmic Christ of Scripture, and I think the last statement he made is challenging. When we must strive to create more community within our church because our society is heading in the opposite direction of less community, a big picture of the church community should be put also into our consideration.
I agree with you Fred, that nature has been used as a channel of God’s revelation to show us about His character, thoughts, glory, wisdom, power, and the law. It has been the reflection of God’s love, and of his continuous providence in our life, His mighty and everlasting love.
Powerful illustration and transformational concept. The word of God is the most precious gem in the world! Wow!It has the power not only to provide materially - God is Yahweh-Yireh, He will supply all our needs according to His riches and glory - but more importantly the word power has the power to transform because it puts us in contact with the One who transforms.
The gems we find in the word of God are life because they are Christ. Remember, "the Word became flesh." He has promised to guide us by His Spirit and sanctify us through His word(John 17:17).
Thanks for Simona for your creative description of the transforming power of God's Word. May we all take advantage of what Christ has so freely offered to us.
I appreciate Nathans dialogue regarding the difficulties the early church fathers faced as they struggled to establish and explain their faith. He notes that he feels priviledged to inherit much of the doctrinal work that has been developed through heresies, debates, councils, and persecution.
I think this is a healthy approach to viewing the development of doctrinal understanding. Further, I think that a bit of this spirit ought to be revived in our church. It is healthy for a church to struggle together and create an atmosphere where doctrinal understanding can grow.
The early church fathers, as Nathan notes, had "a fearless devotion" to God and to understanding His word. It is important for us to learn something from their passion and willingness to be wrong despite the consequences.
The pioneers of the Adventist church had such a spirit. Their devotion to God provoked them to proclaim the exact day, month, and year that Jesus would return. They sold their possessions and waited patiently. They were shunned, ridiculed, and ultimately wrong. However, through their misunderstanding of the word we have gain great understanding. As a church we stand on their shoulders as it relates to our entire movement. Their falter humbled us, took us back to the word, and then propelled us forward. I think we can learn a thing or two from our pioneers.
This is response to Janice De-Whyte's posting about the connections between scripture and science.
Going Green! That is the fad today. And Janice is correct to notice that this is one way to examine the connection between science and scripture. One of the first responsibilities our first parents were given was to "dress and keep" the garden. They were given the task of being "GREEN".
Going Green is another of those areas where Christians should have lead but instead have lagged. Nevertheless, it is an astute observation of Janice and as Christians we should continue to identify ways of how the scripture informs our understanding of science and integrate those ideas into scientific dialogue.
I like your concept. "This has been my concept of Christian Maturity. The closer I get to Christ, the more worthy He is and the more unworthy I am." This concept should be everybody's concept. The cross should remind us how unworthy we are and how desperately we need Jesus.
“the righteousness of faith is received by believing in Jesus, and we don’t have to “work” to get Jesus. It is not as if we have to ascend into heaven or descend into the abyss to gain Jesus. We believe and receive. Manuel RodrÃguez is supporting the idea that justification is a free gift which we have received through Jesus Christ death and this gift is supported only by those who accept it.”
The key word here seems is to “accept’ and I agree with you, but often times sin makes it so hard for people to “accept” Tomas one of Jesus’ disciples could not believe that the person who was standing in front of him was Jesus until he saw the scars.
Freedom is what we hope for as we live our lives. We want to be free from many things such as jobs, sickness, school, and ultimately SIN… “Paul talks about grafting branches in and cutting branches off is a very good text to show that salvation can be lost after you have got it, but it can also be regained after you have lost it. It is always our choice to react to what God had done and to change our mind and act differently toward God. God gives us that freedom.” I like this comment you made. I’m so glad that God gave us freedom to choose. Giving us freedom means that He respects our decisions.
38 comments:
I am Evangelista and I want to comment in what Michaela wrote. I agree with you that there are many details that contibute to our momentarily lost in this world. I was one of those Christian that before to know SDA visited so many churches at the same time searching the truth. Today I feel that in these 20 years being Adventist the Lord have brought me to the right light of knowledge where I every day find that I am the worst sinner of the world because of knowledge.
My remark/comment is on Evangelista's comment. Well written and we are to emulate Jesus in His humbleness. Humility is the Key to the hearts of those who know Him.
I must say I have enjoyed reading the comments of my classmates. Especially those of my classmates Josian Frampton and Fred Mainda. They have sparked my critical thinking. How would I present Christ to someone who does not believe in the Bible? They believe there is a God, they believe Christ existed but have a hard time accepting the written Word of God. Any suggestions?
Re: “Diamonds Aren’t Only a Girl’s Best Friend” by Simona Mills
Simona, I don't know if you realize it but the very way in which you wrote about treasuring knowledge is an example of what so many in our world need to hear. It is truth contextualized to your experience, not watered down or sensationalized. Based on what I know of you, I know that you mean what you're saying and not simply reaching for a catch phrase.
When God's word reaches us, we must speak about it with words that are real to us.
Michaela Lawrence
Re: Nathan Williams' Comment
I really agree that much of our study of Scripture is a product of the wrestling, thinking and praying that previous believers have done.
When it comes to understanding the Christian world I think it is easy for us to fall into the trap that "other" Christians are not on a journey of wrestling with Scripture. While this may be true of some I believe that there are many believers who are searching as desperately as we are to understand more of God's revelation.
My personal challenge as a minister is to be open to questions and also creative enough to express revealed truth in a way that will aid not hinder a person's search for truth. When I think about this challenge... I need to pray!
This is in response to Michaela lawrence's post on chapter 1 of Cosmic Christ.
"While I want to be able to clearly explain to a nominal Christian friend how the Bible can be primary along with Christ and the cosmos, I also want to be able to know what my friend really needs to hear from me and I want my knowledge of these three primacies to transform me in such a way that I become a better witness whether or not I share these specific ideas."
This statement has never been more true than it is for us today. it seems that we can become so caught up with reading books and studying for tests that sometime we overlook the fact that this information is not just for our benefit but for others also. We need to understand these primacies so that when the situation arises and I do mean when we will be able to not just regurgitate information but to make it real to the people around us that are seeking for answers to real life questions. Thank you for the post Michaela.
Comment on Rommel C.
I agree with Rommel in that there has been a tendency to speak for Scriptures instead of letting Scripture speak for itself. In my own experience I still have to shake off things that were said to me that were not Scriptural but are still a part of me since I grew up hearing it. I pray that we will be careful when speaking especially to younger persons as what we say as leaders has such a huge affect. I also want to affirm what Rommel has pointed out that we do injustice to God to deny that that God has revealed Himself extra-Biblically. Especially in our time if we recognize that God has spoken in the Cosmos, we can look at the same evidence that evolutionists are using and instead use them to affirm that God did create the world in 6 days and that Jesus has died for us to redeem us from our fall into sin.
This is in response to "Wise" post on Chapter 2&3, The Cosmic Christ of Scripture.
While I agree with what you've said, I must say that I hadn't even thought about the high significance of Scripture until I started studying here in the Seminary. It just wasn't an issue I'd thought about before and the same can be said for many things I've studied here. I've found myself thinking, "Oh, okay, that's a problem?" on many occasions so I wonder how we can address these sorts of issues in our churches in a way that really helps people wake up and see that oh yeah, this is an issue and here's why I should study it.
Having these sorts of discussions can help people better recognize their root problems. For example, someone may think they have an issue with Jesus when what they really have an issue with is their limited knowledge of Scripture. If they knew more about what the OT says regarding prophecy, they'd know more about Jesus and things would make more sense all around.
That probably sounds a bit simplistic but I think you get my point. It's not enough to tell people that Scripture is the rule for faith and practice when they've never even wondered about it. What are people wondering about?
RE: ML's "Theological Turning Points, Chapter 2"
Wrestling with such theological concepts as "Could Jesus have had a mother?" while my young students grapple with divorce, gender confusion, and broken hearts; and children around the world starve to death every 3 seconds...well, it seems rather irrelevant.
On the surface.
I have struggled with disillusionment as to the importance of such endeavors; yet through the years, I've realized that the exercising of my mind in theology has matured it. I believe each discussion, each effort to study however clumsy, has served to stretch my mind (and yes, even my heart at times) into new dimensions. These experiences make us who we are, and we teach/preach/serve through the persons we are becoming.
So even though a seemingly irrelevant theological discussion has little, if any, direct impact on our present or future ministries, together with the rest of our life experiences it can and does shape us, form us, into deeper, richer more thoughtful and reflective human beings. When I recognize this growth in me (all-too-seldom, since it's definitely slow-grow), I am grateful.
And then disillusioned again. :)
In any case, it helps me to remember the wisdom of Ecclesiastes and Jesus: Darchelle, take your opportunities--all of them--and embrace them fully and multiply them responsibly. And trust that God weaves even the most seemingly irrelevant threads into the tapestry of you; a tapestry that adds beauty, warmth, and intelligence to whatever corner of this desperate world He sends you to.
Comment on Robert Siby, by Evangelista Polanco
I love the way how you describe the work of Jesus and how you undestand about how humble he is. that he came from his office in heaven and give us a business card, phone number, etc. Yes, I agree with you He has given us instruction and I would say some little more and is that he does not obligate us to follow him. It is volunteer. Thank you for let your door open if we have some question about your comment, but it was nice and clear. God bless you.
A response to Evangelista Polanco's comments on Christology - By Simona Mills
I am intrigued to know that you were once a Gnostic. Your comment on Who Jesus is, come more alive for me. I feel the passion and conviction of your words. Thank you for your comments. I too want to have a mind that is willing and open to Jesus Christ.
In Response to Darchele's "Who Is God?: Thoughts on the Journey to Enlightenment"
I too am grateful for the insight that we have because of the centuries of theological reflection. I do believe that "theology cannot be neatly packaged" as you so aptly stated.
The inner struggle as a young person and also as a theology-student is having so many questions and wanting to address and even answer all of them. The discipline that we excercise in learning is that we may begin to address some of the issues but not arrive at answers immedietly or even in the near future.
As we all reflect and grapple with the issues raised in class I hope we can all remind each other that we must struggle with the difficult questions but sometimes it's okay not to have the answers.
I would like to adress Morumbwa Dickson it is truly ashame that such confusion has taken place through out the ages in reference to the divinity of Jesus. The bible is indeed clear as to who Jesus is. I am afriad that many still wrestle with the divinity and humsity of Christ. I remember on preacher saying if you try to explain it you will lose your mind but if you fail to believe it you’ll lose your soul. We can not explain everything in the word of God and the Lord even gives us room to grow in our understanding but when we allow doubt to unsettle our faith we step into a very dangerous realm. May God keep us all on the right path.
I am commenting to Janice De-Whyte, we are facing a very interesting challenge as Seventh-day Adventist ministers. Some times if feel our role as ministers is to perform a high wire balancing act balancing between the scriptures as our guide and the role of Ellen White and her writings. What is more concerning is that many spectators in our congregation are waiting to see if we are going to fall off of the ropes. At least that’s the way I see it sometimes. One of the things that I appreciate about the seminary is the perspective that they place on her Ellen White’s writings and how to help the parishioners to rightly read her writings. I must admit I believe we are privileged to have a prophet for our church. But at the same time I believe in her final statement at the last General Conference she would attend she states: “Brethren and sisters, I commend unto you this Book.” May God help us to find the balance that will help others to become healthy, well balanced, and mature Christians.
I like the multiple applications of ‘glasses’ and ‘mirror’ on Simona Mill’s posting. The “glasses of scripture” is used to see the sharp image of loving Creator, Savior, King, and Friend. The use of “windex of scripture” as to make the mirror of life keep shining and reflecting the beautiful image of God. And the “mirror of redemption” that reflects the love of God to humankind. I would say that this is the one that was stained by the blood of sacrificial Lamb of God. It’s wonderful!
Response to Nathan's post on the church.
Nathan, I resonate with what you've said regarding how we define the church. I particularly struggle with how we define the church because so many people are no longer "doing church" in a traditional sense and our Adventist definition of church is so closely tied to practice. In other words, being remnant means doing things a certain way.
When we consider the other sheep Christ has, we can't be too narrow in our definition of the church but I fear becoming too broad also because I definitely believe that loving God manifests itself in certain ways. However, maybe that's part of the problem. Maybe I need to stop looking for a specific manifestation as it often leads to an exaggerated focus on works.
Comment on ML's Chpt.4 Reflection:
"Our perceived need for God is intricately tied to our understanding of the very nature of sin." -ML
Well said. How true this is. And how well I have experienced the self-righteous stance without even realizing it. Aweful. Miserable state. I spend my days right-fighting and standing in judgment over my fellow travelers who, in their humility or even their lack of humility are better off than I am (even in my groveling I am judging, eh?!).
This principle resonates with Christians, to be sure. At least it should. But what to do about our state of unawares? Of course it is imperative that we look to Jesus. In meditating on Him we see our flawed condition worsen by the second. And in the process of reflection and confession--even if it is at first a wooden process for us--we begin to live from our heart, which inevitably draws us into the state of inner affairs.
And thirdly...we enter into authentic community. Here lies a passion of mine. As we find emotionally safe, devoted and loving fellow Christians with whom we can practice authenticity and from whom we receive honest, non-judgmental feedback, I believe we will begin to experience true relationships with others, which in turn, will awaken our hearts (or scare us off until we're finally ready...). In this awakening, we will be "coaxed" off our high horses and then begin to see just how we really are.
And this is where the beauty begins! This is where a hardened ego may soften and then experience awakening which can then lead to regret, remorse. And ultimately, in relationship, this soul may be directed to Jesus for forgiveness and life--and she'll be ready for it because she's experienced it among the *body of Christ*.
The issues surrounding the ecclesiological controversy during Christianity's early years draw our attention to issues that still must be addressed. But in caring for our governance needs, let's please not neglect the crucial, foundational need to have and be in authentic community as we seek to understand our need of Christ.
Evangelista Polanco,
Comment on Nathan's Reflection.
I agree with you Nathan "the prophet" Science is far away to understand that the Bible has already described "Science" in all of the sense of the word. This situation reminds me the words of Solomon: "Wisdom do not come from this world, but from those who follow, and live the life that the Creator has command us." (my words) Also, Paul comment "For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse." (Romans 1:20)
I find quite again to be reminded by Evangelista about salvation. our works cannot save us alone but it must be accompanied by faith. i wish we all accept this simple fact.
dickson Morumbwa comments on Evengelista aagnment
I find it interesting again to be reminded by Evangelista about salvation. our works cannot save us alone but it must be accompanied by faith. i wish we all accept this simple fact.
Good job simonna. Your illustration of the egg on Trinity will keep on reminding me about the inseparable relationship of the Trinity.
My response is to Dani Carmona,
I am afraid that so many of us find ourselves in the same predicament as the deacon. Although our situation may not be to that extreme far to often man of us find ourselves reacting instead of responding in patience and kindness. The apostle says, "Let this mind be in you that was also in Christ Jesus." If we would study our master I respones in life would be a lot less different and maybe many more people would be attracted to the Christ dwelling in us.
Comment on NW's “Searching For Balance”
I appreciate the desire expressed in this entry for the Adventist church to seek balance. I also question whether it is "balance" we need....
Is it a balance of "We've got the truth" and "We love"? It sounds good, and perhaps this is the way to put it. I wonder, however, if it should not be a balancing act, but a priorities readjustment (I'm not even sure this suffices, but I'll give it a go :).
Love is the starting point. Love is truth, and truth is love. So the two, truth and love, are inextricable. Inseparable. they are one. So as our church surrenders it's heart and soul to the God who is Love, as we open wide for His grace to filter through our muck and begin the miracle of growth, then the seeds of truth (also a grace--thanks, Augustine) would sprout, burst through that muck, and pressed forward. But all the while that spark of life, LOVE, sustaining the seedling as it matures.
Love is our starting point, not something we use to lessen the weight of a "We've got the truth" load. That kind of a balancing act is...a burden. It's a trick. It's something we're always beating ourselves up over because...we never seem to get the perfect (or near-perfect) balance. Because we can't. I might even question a love toward others that's trying to "subdue" the power of the truth we carry around on our SDA scales. While sympathizing and appreciating any effort at loving others (I know my own dark heart), in my weariness, I'm drawn back to the beginning of what even *gave* me the *desire* for truth: Love.
No, it cannot be a balancing act, but something more along the lines of returning to our First Love....
Comment on NW's “Searching For Balance”
I appreciate the desire expressed in this entry for the Adventist church to seek balance. I also question whether it is "balance" we need....
Is it a balance of "We've got the truth" and "We love"? It sounds good, and perhaps this is the way to put it. I wonder, however, if it should not be a balancing act, but a priorities readjustment (I'm not even sure this suffices, but I'll give it a go :).
Love is the starting point. Love is truth, and truth is love. So the two, truth and love, are inextricable. Inseparable. they are one. So as our church surrenders it's heart and soul to the God who is Love, as we open wide for His grace to filter through our muck and begin the miracle of growth, then the seeds of truth (also a grace--thanks, Augustine) would sprout, burst through that muck, and pressed forward. But all the while that spark of life, LOVE, sustaining the seedling as it matures.
Love is our starting point, not something we use to lessen the weight of a "We've got the truth" load. That kind of a balancing act is...a burden. It's a trick. It's something we're always beating ourselves up over because...we never seem to get the perfect (or near-perfect) balance. Because we can't. I might even question a love toward others that's trying to "subdue" the power of the truth we carry around on our SDA scales. While sympathizing and appreciating any effort at loving others (I know my own dark heart), in my weariness, I'm drawn back to the beginning of what even *gave* me the *desire* for truth: Love.
No, it cannot be a balancing act, but something more along the lines of returning to our First Love....
A response to Janice De-Whyte’s Theological Turning Points Chapter 7 & 8: Sacramental Controversy Blog.
I enjoyed reading your comment and would like to chime in about the lost awe in the Lord’s Supper particularly the foot washing. I just came back from NYC where my church had communion. It has now become a common practice among the young people to not participate in the foot washing and only take communion. One teenager told his mother in my presence “I don’t do feet”. She turned to me and said her son has issues with touching other people’s feet and its worse when its men. She laughed and walked off leaving me bewildered and disappointed that we have placed foot washing in "optional" pile of our Christian walk. We really need to go back to basics in the way we teach and minister to our young and old. I also know a grown man, married with kids who will not touch feet except his own. He told me that they (the church) are lucky he even takes communion. Wow! What happens when LUCK RUNS OUT?!
Reponse to Dani Carmona's discussion on The Trinity.
Dani, you stated earlier that we need to remember the Holy Spirit is not an "it" but a "person". I believe that in my learning about the Godhead this has been a fundamental truth. I no longer think of the Holy Spirit as a life-force or the breath/power of God.
I think your honesty about your childhood views about the Holy Spirit was good!
Perhaps the different childhood views that each one of us held onto was reflective of the fact that the mystery of God is hard to explain. Perhaps the Sabbath School teachers/Parents/Pastors just couldn't find the right imagery for Kindergarten and Primary class children!
As someone who serves with children and youth I am being reminded constantly through our discussions in class that sometimes in trying to explain mysteries we may end up giving the wrong images to others.
Still, its comforting to know that God is very patient with us and our imaginary pictures of him:-)
Re. Janice De-Whyte's words on Theological Turning Points Chapter 7 & 8
Janice, your words have reminded me of Simona's presentation and the link between baptism and marriage. Perhaps as we explain baptism to people (no matter the age but esp young people) we should emphasize the the beauty of the ceremony and the need for work after that moment has ended. And maybe we should create some sort of simulation time to see if they really want to commit to the journey ahead :)
There's a part of me that wants to keep the act of baptism as far from mysticism as possible simply because I had mystical expectations as a 14-yr-old that were completely disappointed when nothing "happened."
Clearly there are no easy solutions but we certainly need to talk about it all a lot more and a lot more from our own experiences. I think we do each other a great disservice when we speak only from the Bible and very little from our own witness.
I like the comment of Romel Charles, In “The Cosmic Christ of Scripture” chapter three. He says “We as students of the Word of God need to understand that just as the God head is made up of three but are yet one, we need to see the revelations of God as one also although they three. IF only we stop and listen to the Holy Scriptures then and only then will there be new light in old lamps.” Good comment.
I have read Robert Siby's comment about the images of the church which the author presents and agree with him. Good comment Robert. However, did you get any new insight from the author on these common passages?
I like reading Philip Dah comments on Chapter 7 of The Cosmic Christ of Scripture, and I think the last statement he made is challenging. When we must strive to create more community within our church because our society is heading in the opposite direction of less community, a big picture of the church community should be put also into our consideration.
I agree with you Fred, that nature has been used as a channel of God’s revelation to show us about His character, thoughts, glory, wisdom, power, and the law. It has been the reflection of God’s love, and of his continuous providence in our life, His mighty and everlasting love.
RE: "Diamond's Aren't Only a Girl's Best Friend."
Powerful illustration and transformational concept. The word of God is the most precious gem in the world! Wow!It has the power not only to provide materially - God is Yahweh-Yireh, He will supply all our needs according to His riches and glory - but more importantly the word power has the power to transform because it puts us in contact with the One who transforms.
The gems we find in the word of God are life because they are Christ. Remember, "the Word became flesh." He has promised to guide us by His Spirit and sanctify us through His word(John 17:17).
Thanks for Simona for your creative description of the transforming power of God's Word. May we all take advantage of what Christ has so freely offered to us.
RE: Nathan Williams Comments from Sept 9.
I appreciate Nathans dialogue regarding the difficulties the early church fathers faced as they struggled to establish and explain their faith. He notes that he feels priviledged to inherit much of the doctrinal work that has been developed through heresies, debates, councils, and persecution.
I think this is a healthy approach to viewing the development of doctrinal understanding. Further, I think that a bit of this spirit ought to be revived in our church. It is healthy for a church to struggle together and create an atmosphere where doctrinal understanding can grow.
The early church fathers, as Nathan notes, had "a fearless devotion" to God and to understanding His word. It is important for us to learn something from their passion and willingness to be wrong despite the consequences.
The pioneers of the Adventist church had such a spirit. Their devotion to God provoked them to proclaim the exact day, month, and year that Jesus would return. They sold their possessions and waited patiently. They were shunned, ridiculed, and ultimately wrong. However, through their misunderstanding of the word we have gain great understanding. As a church we stand on their shoulders as it relates to our entire movement. Their falter humbled us, took us back to the word, and then propelled us forward.
I think we can learn a thing or two from our pioneers.
Re: "GREEN"
This is response to Janice De-Whyte's posting about the connections between scripture and science.
Going Green! That is the fad today. And Janice is correct to notice that this is one way to examine the connection between science and scripture. One of the first responsibilities our first parents were given was to "dress and keep" the garden. They were given the task of being "GREEN".
Going Green is another of those areas where Christians should have lead but instead have lagged. Nevertheless, it is an astute observation of Janice and as Christians we should continue to identify ways of how the scripture informs our understanding of science and integrate those ideas into scientific dialogue.
Comments #9 reflection on Vince' paper
I like your concept.
"This has been my concept of Christian Maturity. The closer I get to Christ, the more worthy He is and the more unworthy I am."
This concept should be everybody's concept. The cross should remind us how unworthy we are and how desperately we need Jesus.
Comment #10 Laurentiu Roman’s reflection
“the righteousness of faith is received by believing in Jesus, and we don’t have to “work” to get Jesus. It is not as if we have to ascend into heaven or descend into the abyss to gain Jesus. We believe and receive. Manuel RodrÃguez is supporting the idea that justification is a free gift which we have received through Jesus Christ death and this gift is supported only by those who accept it.”
The key word here seems is to “accept’ and I agree with you, but often times sin makes it so hard for people to “accept” Tomas one of Jesus’ disciples could not believe that the person who was standing in front of him was Jesus until he saw the scars.
Comments #11 Wendy Feese’ reflection
Freedom is what we hope for as we live our lives. We want to be free from many things such as jobs, sickness, school, and ultimately SIN…
“Paul talks about grafting branches in and cutting branches off is a very good text to show that salvation can be lost after you have got it, but it can also be regained after you have lost it. It is always our choice to react to what God had done and to change our mind and act differently toward God. God gives us that freedom.” I like this comment you made.
I’m so glad that God gave us freedom to choose. Giving us freedom means that He respects our decisions.
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