Comments on assignments for Works of God, Summer 2009.
45 comments:
Quigley Morris
said...
Quigley Obrin Morris Paper #1 Text from class discussions Day #1 1Corinthians 13: 12 (last part) I know in part then I shall know fully even as I am fully known It is all about the master of language; yes it is Brother Paul again, some how I am getting a feel for his writing. To me it really brings out a passion in me; he is describing two different situations here in two different places and both relate to human and their relationship with God. He said “I know in part” this mean the physical body of man is capable to a boundary point. In fact the point is we are not able to do much with this sinful body that is locked in a sinful world. We are not able to understand or know the things that we want to know, or even understand the things that we want to understand. “Then I shall know fully” he Paul is looking beyond this life, and beyond the boundary point where sin have no control on our bodies. In fact that sin corrupted body will be no more as the bible says “we will be change”. Then we will be able to know the things that were once beyond our wildest thoughts. With this obstructions remove it is only then that we will be able to know and understand the things of God more fully. In the present of his redeemer his ability will increased and then the word fully comes in to play. The perfect transformation is completed and the once sinful man now goes beyond the boundaries of the sinful world and is able to know fully. And that is sinless quality that will be given only when the change is completed. “Even as I am fully known” this is a knowledge that is privilege to God alone today. To fully know someone is to be able to read his mind; and today’s sinful man does not possess the qualities of that magnitude. It is only Gods knowledge that is complete. To measure our knowledge is only to compare us to each other; and that alone cannot take you too far. And man knowledge will never be like God’s or come close to His. So Paul is saying I may not know every thing, but God knows me he knows now and he will know me when he comes again. I may not even understand who I am or who my neighbor is but the mighty God from his throne above knows us all. So the time is coming when His knowledge will be explained or I think it is better to say that Paul’s and our imperfect knowledge will be made complete by the only one who has always known us.
Thomas Oyaro Ong’ou Like our Savior, who is God the son we are in this world to do service for God. We are here to become like God in character, and by a life of service to reveal Him to the world. In order to be co-workers with God, to become like Him and to reveal His character, we must know Him aright in our human language of understanding. We must know Him as He reveals Himself to us through the Bible that I am who I am.
I enjoyed your explanations of the contrast between Hebrew and Greek thought. Too often we try to apply our Greek influenced western way of thinking to stories in the Old Testament. We often can't understand what is happening, when the reality is found in the depths of simplicity.
To understand God is truly mind boggling. In some ways He is indescribable. Individuals can know God on a deeper level through a personal relationship and aspects of this relationship are indescribable within the confines of human language.
Thank you for placing a visual illustration within the body of your reflection. I appreciate your perspectives on how we can in effect understand our own thoughts better. Perhaps we imitate without realizing what we're doing and in turn limit the vastness of what we could understand if we just came at it from a different avenue.
(I just sent a post but it disappeared, so I will try to recreate the magic...)
I appreciated your comment. Every time we try to describe Jesus and his life, it's trying to describe two huge things. His humanity and his Divinity, there just aren't enough adjectives! As we stretch our minds to understand God, and get to the point where we understand a little bit more, and I do mean little, it takes us forever to get there, but we do, and I think that for God, as He guides us patiently, our struggle is worth it for Him, because it brings us a little bit closer to Him, and that's always worth it.
Your sentence is so good as follows.. "So Paul is saying I may not know every thing, but God knows me he knows now and he will know me when he comes again."
Nevertheless I have been preaching many times at the SDA logical church for 12 years, I know Our God and his works restrictively.
When Jesus comes again, I want to know more about something which I do not know in the earth.
this is Gitack Ju' comments about Myongho Sin's reflection.
thank you for your insight.As I read your below sentences, i have a question in my mind. 'Time becomes a matter for only mortal beings. There will be no watch or clock in heaven where there are only eternal beings. Time would be totally different to those eternal beings and they may have different meaning of the time.' Then How do we worship every Sabbath in heaven?(Isa 66:22-23)
ther are some things that just do not stick with you. sometimes after reading through it seems that you are still at the point where it is greek to you. well Ryan's point of view reflect my thoughts when it comes to understanding God and how he works.i have descover it is better and easer to trust Him than to try to understand how He works. so that is all i do now, i do not spend time thinking about His methods of doing things but i trust i am safe in his methods of helping me. Thomas highlight the importance of reflecting God's character. this cannot be over emphasie because that is what He had ask us to do. Jesus said if i be lifted up i will draw all men unto me. this can only be achived by our actions in helping people see Jesus in the lives that we live.
i am very understanding to Fa'asoa comment on the coming of Christ as a baby and the caonnection he made between the love he has for his girls and the love God have for the world. it was Enoch who said that when he had his first child that he understand how much God him. i would like to join the claim that our children will always give us a new look at life and would fine the need to place value on Christ's sacrifice for us. i do not thing i will die for my son, but Jesus dide for me before i even knew who he was. Ryan there is a strange idea going around that to be a scientist that one have to undermind the bible thesis. this opinion is far from the truth. i think that Ryan did make a good case in his presentation. i will like to add the real deal is to get someone who has a clear knowledge of Scientific teaching and a clear knoweldge of theolog. the two has always highlighted each other. what have made them stand apart it depends on who you are talking to. because the bible give a good account of all the finds that have been unearth around the world.
Fa’asoa M. Fa’asoa 07.15.2009 In Response to: Massiel Davila per her response to my earlier comment concerning the shear majesty of our CREATOR!
Their plastic blue toy boat floats near them in their tub. Another toy, a slithery realistic rubber snake bobbling up and down with the motion of the bath water slowly sinks to the bottom; they squeal in glee as fresh watery bubbles cascade down their freshly washed smiley faces…oh so cute yet so noisy.
The bathroom floor immediately connected to the tub where I was kneeling begins to wet; my knees feel it. I would imagine that some may begin to feel irritated at the wetness of the experience but for me, as a dad, it’s sure bliss. No pun intended, but with every passing moment, I’m soaking up the experience.
My babies-four and one, growing up way too fast for my wife and me-deepening our feelings of wonderment and somewhat sadness as though were in a time-warp experience. I look into their beautiful faces and wonder in sheer amazing at how their long eye lashes, cherry red lips, light and medium brown hairs with red highlights and curls, the youngest-more so than the eldest-yet equally beautiful, lightly tanned skin tones, with obvious intelligence above their years, and sweet personalities to sandwich it within; and to top it off, they LOVE JESUS.
I’m floored. With all that I am learning and continue to learn in and out of class, I can only kneel-amazed at GOD’s workmanship in these girls-completely overwhelmed and at awe of our LORD-sure I have a million questions for Him; however, this one thing I know, Yesu Azali Awa Na Biso! (“Jesus is here with us!”)
By that I mean that He must have been present with me in my inspiring experience as I marvel at His creation-splashing like joyful dolphins in the tub. Yes my girls are created in my wife’s and my image, but in a very precious and special sense, because I believe in Biblical chronology-Adam and Eve were created in their CREATOR’s image and I belong to that line, I too then was created in my CREATOR’s image and thus my children. After having said all of that-I completely agree with you my friend Massiel. As you said, “As we stretch our minds to understand God, and get to the point where we understand a little bit more, and I do mean little, it takes us forever to get there, but we do, and I think that for God, as He guides us patiently, our struggle is worth it for Him, because it brings us a little bit closer to Him, and that's always worth it.” Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh so worth it!
I liked your point about wishing we could understand Dr. Hanna on the level that he thinks. I often wish I could get in to Paul's thinking. It is so difficult to express the depth of what you are trying to say.
Continue to study God's word, nature and have open dialogue with individuals within the church and we will continue to come to a greater understanding these challenging concepts. Dr. Hanna just has a few more years on us. Maybe someday we will be presenting more difficult questions and concepts???
Worship (especially worship music) is a hot topic in our church today. I think you zeroed in on the main point - worship is about God, not us. While worshipers receive a benefit from worship, many modern versions of worship have become self serving. When individuals have a self serving purpose in worship they have missed the point.
I am convinced that this quotation from the writings of E.G. White is applicable in our class discussions because we are dealing with the works of God in science and theology.”Christ crucified for our sins, Christ risen from the dead, Christ ascended on high, is the science of salvation that we are to learn and to teach.” Ministry of Healing, p. 424 .This is the true science of the salvation that we are going to study in heaven in all ages.
Fa’asoa M. Fa’asoa THST520-Works of GOD 07.15.2009 In Response to: Ryan Hablitzel ID #138672
This is a response to Rodrigo de Galiza Barbosa:
“Worship (especially worship music) is a hot topic in our church today. I think you zeroed in on the main point - worship is about God, not us. While worshipers receive a benefit from worship, many modern versions of worship have become self serving. When individuals have a self serving purpose in worship they have missed the point.”
While I agree with you Ryan, and thus Rodrigo on what I perceive to be the main thrust of your point, I also think that you may have missed the other side of the coin of that same point…and that is, YES…while worship may be focused on GOD, yet-let’s not forget that there is a very real experience that the worshiper participates in as a wholistic part of that worship experience.
So many worship experiences are, let’s be honest, right down DEAD! I have been in many Adventist and non churches who’s worship experience couldn’t/wouldn’t even wake the DEAD from their graves, yet I have also been to other worship services where the DEAD would probably turn over in their graves because of it’s over the topness…thus I prefer to explore the possibilities of a wholistic both.
Too often than not, if we are honest with ourselves, the “so-called” “issue” with worship music-contemporary or not, is used as an excuse to select what we really are use to, rather than taking an honest look at both what scripture teaches about it (worship, music etc.) in all its elements: Historical context, cultural context, and appropriation context; etc., and applying those wonderful Biblical principles of worship to worshiping the awesome REAL LIVING and HOLY GOD from our hearts with uplifted hands, hearts (emotions), mind, and spirit; imagine worshiping of a Holy GOD from SIN sick humans…even our worship is SIN infested…no matter what form it comes in…Read “I use to be perfect by George Night.” The ONLY WAY that anything…and I MEAN ANYTHING WE HUMANS “DO” here on this filthy planet of ours for our CREATOR that would be acceptable to the HOLY GOD goes through the meritorious work of our SAVIOUR…YES…that includes yours and my WORSHIP…whether it be with the ORGAN/PIANO/GUITAR/DRUMS/Ukulele/or the harmonica. I don’t know about you, but as for me and my household, we will worship the LORD GOD with ALL our hearts/mind/soul/strength in dancing, singing, clapping our hands, reading scripture, and the spirit of prophecy…and even DRUMS!!! Let GOD’s HOLY NAME be praised by the lips of sinful humans intermingled with the blood of the LAMB! Halleluia! Vi’ia Le Ali’i!!!!
You said, "There is always a danger that we will become so “married” to our own “A HA” moment that it will become a point of doctrine rather than a point of on-going discussion." I agree. A book I once read on writing encouraged writers not to get too attached to their "little darlings," those phrases or thoughts that we really like but really don't help the big picture of what we're trying to communicate.
At the same time, I think we all agree, there are treasures in God's word we should never give up. Progressive truth goes deeper. In my opinion, it doesn't give up what has been previously revealed.
You can't beat Job for some good thinking! I'm jealous you took an entire class on this book.
I was just thinking, doesn't Job reveal an incredibly dynamic interaction between Job and God (even though Job didn't know it)?
Wasn't God relying, to some degree, on Job? What if Jobe had cursed God? What would Satan have said to God then? What influence would that have had on the "sons of God?"
i read a very intresting point of view from Ryan which robs on my mind. it highlight the facts that are well known around some christian circules and carry with it all the bibical logical explanation that many have refuse to pay attention to. there is no dought that the poat modern theology on creation is corrupted. Mrs. White said in one of her books i do not remember now that when these topices are being discussed the devil has special angels that he send to this meetings. we should be very careful because creation story prove that there is a God. because of that fact the devil is doing all that he can to destroy the story of creation with his own corrupted story which undermind the existance of God. Dennis said the story of creation is a mystery adn i agree with this statement. this mystery is not easy to understand. and God had not try to prove that he is there. he is not in a debate over his existance the bible simply say in the begining God create the heaven and the earth. so in its complex revelation we who have believe should show patience in dealing with thoes who are blinded by the devil's education. i think dennnis is on the right tract and i do share his point of view along this line.
Some valuable discussion has arisen from my proposal that: if God created us to be free and to make informed decisions, then God is free and makes informed decisions. As has been pointed out by some participants, there is a clear distinction between the Creator and the creation. The Creator is not created as is his creation. Also, the Creator is not finite as is his creation.
I agree with these comments wholeheartedly. At the same time, the finite creation does reflect the glory of the Creator. In addition, the Creator can and did become incarnate in the finite creation to reveal the truth about God in terms that can be understood within the creation. Where we are limited as creatures, God is unlimited as Creator.
We do not understand fully the things of God. But if, as God’s creation, we view ourselves as free; and if we view freedom as superior to lack of freedom; surely it is reasonable to view God as infinitely free because he has uncreated freedom. Similarly, if, we can make informed decisions which we view as superior to uninformed decisions; surely it is reasonable to view God as able to make informed decisions.
A further statement may be needed with regard to the delicate question of the ability of the Creator and created beings to freely choose between righteousness and sin. My proposal is that there is no righteousness or sin without freedom. God is not righteous because he lacks freedom. Rather, God always uses his freedom in righteous ways.
Ultimately, however, the question is not about what I think is reasonable, but about what has been revealed in Scripture. Has not God been revealed as omniscient/all knowing (1 Jn 3:20) and therefore as informed? Has not God revealed himself as having “a free spirit” (Ps 51:12). Does not the righteousness of God involve freedom from sin (Rom 6:18, 20, 22). Is not the law of freedom (Jms 1:25; 2:12) a transcript of God’s character?
I believe that God has faith and needs it. Because the Bible says, God is love and according to His nature of love, definitely He posseses faith. because, without faith, love cannot stand. and the very faith He has might different with our faith. and just as Dr. Hannah mentioned, our faith is a part of His faith.
in response to Fa’asoa I like your expression 'dead worship' sometimes I was dead through worship services not because of what kind or form of worship but how I worship. I agree with your point that we must worship in spirit and truth. We should be a minister who is able to give people the water of life instead of killing
I was reading what Fred and Rochelle said about Abraham and I agree, he was a man on a journey with God. One question, I thought Abraham was emphasized because of his great faith and obedience. We can't talk about everything in one class period but Abraham's willingness to sacrafice his son is an enormous demonstration of faith and work in my book. I believe there is a danger in making Abraham too much like us just as there is a danger in making him a super hero.
There are a few comments reacting to the idea that God can know passively. The Bible seems to indicate this is possible--flood, Babel, Sodom. These correlate with the point Dr. Hanna made with the question, "Does God know evil actively or passively?" I"m curious, are there any biblical examples of God passively learning something good?
I like your conclusion that cheese eaters and non cheese eaters can coexist. Too offen the two sides see each other as either sinners or offbeats.
The following is not in respose to the writer but thoughts generated by what was written:
I would suggest that we are careful how we speak about eating cheese and salvation. Sure, the lack of cheese in one's diet does not impart salvation; however, cheese could be a salvation issue for some people. If you are at the point in your walk with God that He convicts you to stop eating cheese and you rebell against this convition until the day you die - it could become a salvation issue.
I eat cheese. I love it. But someday God is going to convict me that I need to give it up. Laughing off the issue and concluding it is not a salvation issue while shoving a wedge of cheese in my mouth will speaks much higher volumes about my relationship with God than the act of eating cheese itself.
Maybe we should start taking God's dietary advice more seriously? Maybe there is a blessing we are missing out on?
it was good to read massiel's point of view and she did express my feeling on thursday's class discussions.this topic is deep and it had not dawn on me that this was where we were heading. i believe that science will over ride theology because all the attention in the world today is geared towards science. the post modern peole sees their hope in science; and that position will contuine to become more popular as the years roll on. Myong point is well taken; God's work and the way he works is still unknown to us. that is why Myong i have always tell my people do not try to understand God. just trust him, we should all have a deeper understanding of Him if we trust Him more.
"I don't think the approach was the key; it was the Spirit filled individual." I really like this. Sometimes we get too caught up in techniques and programs. I, too, have bee highly influenced by people like this.
Thomas wrote: "We are here to become like God in character, and by a life of service to reveal Him to the world." I agree. It seems we sometimes get caught in huge debates over things that can be very beautiful. What will unite us?
Jae Hyun Kwon said... # Paper 3 about the blessing being foreknown.
Dr. Hanna said framework of salvation in order as follow. “Foreknowledge – Predestination – Calling – justification – Glorification” He said God fore-knew everything earlier more predestination. I agree with his lecture and it is true Foreknowledge was into His heart from eternity. But I who am limited do not the point of eternity.
If that it is true (we know that It is true), He kept the plan of salvation in mind. Genesis 3:15 is the preparation against the sin of human. So God displayed preparations about several figures looked like curse in Genesis, nevertheless human disobeyed the law of God. On the other Word, God who fore-knows everything even depravity of Adam & Eve, put the blessing into the curse. So, Human should find the blessing in the process of accomplishment of the object of God.
We can always recognize everything of the works of God; just understand something which appears in our life. So the bible tells us “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are you ways my ways”(Isaiah55:8). We can see the first curse in the Genesis 3 after human being was created. It was occurred as a result of sin.
The Bible said that “Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee”(Gen3:16). The woman will give birth with pain, but we can find the special work of God by delivery. He got the work of God that is called as a blessing into pain according. “Repeated conception was therefore intended to be a blessing, not a curse.”
The Command of God is the Act of God, the Work of God because He put His intentional will into the command of God. He said that Adam can eat his food by the sweet of his brow, but here is a hidden work of God.
“Since Adam’s fall human achievement may be realized only through toil. Nevertheless, it should be recognized that this punishment was indeed a blessing in disguise for sinful beings.” (SDABC Vol 1, 235)
so, We can find the Work of God(blessing) in the process of carring out His will.
It is very interesting that God put it into the curse.
So, If we find an intention of God kike this, We can get more blessing in our life.
Fred okemwa. THST 520 Works of God. Final exam.2nd part. 7/29/2009.
C. What have you learned about the interpretation of biblical language concerning the works of God? The biblical language is analogical in nature in the sense that the language which is used is the language that we are able to grasp. For instance when the bible says that God’s hand is not short to save, it does not imply that God has really a hand but in some sense there is away in which God a hand. With the use of biblical language, I have also learned progressively that there are no perfect answers for any problem. When you discuss the bible question from one side, the other side also awaits for discussion. I have also learned that in understanding the bible language and try to give a fair explanation it is wise to use the holistic model.
D.In what ways is biblical language itself a work of God The biblical language it self is the work of God due the fact that inspiration through which we have the bible language was the work of God. In the book of 2nd Tim 3:16 Paul says that all scripture is given by the inspiration of God. Though we don’t believe in the verbal mechanism of inspiration we can deduce that God controlled the language that the prophets used in writing down the revelation of God. 2nd peter 1:21 says that the holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the spirit.
Fred Okemwa THST 520 Works of God. Reflection paper 4. “One can’t believe that time is such short” it has been an interesting class for the past four weeks in a journey of trying to understand the works of God. It is true that some of us with all the newness of being in this place for the first time, I must confess the fact that my one month study in trying to understand the work of God had completely changed my view about God and how he works. I want to appreciate Dr. Hanna’s for guiding us to understand some of the complicated bible texts such as Romans 8:28-30, not only such but the entire bible as well. It was interesting to listen from him when discussing topics such as judgment, the close of probation, the latter rain the handing over and others. It true that the holistic model if used to in the study of these topics and many others their will minimal queries concerning God and his work. Part of this week and last week it has been interesting to listen from presenters of different topics as far as concerning the work of God and it is amazing of the valuable information that we got from those presentations. Some times through those presentations we got an opening to discuss other insights that are related to God’s work. May the Good God continue to bless our professor Dr.Hanna and all of us as we seek to explore more and more in the works of God. To those that will be graduating may God bless and have the best wishes ever on Earth.
Reflection to the lecture and question to Dr. Hanna
"God judges nothing before the time" This is good news for us. We are the one who has the strong and urgent message about the judgment of God to the world of Babylon. I'm sure that God's judgment is a means to tesitfy the love of God for all including the Lucifer. All will praise or admit His love. I have a dramatized judgment story for beginners. We are going to watch a video in the process of the judgment. and the video surely enough different from what we have now. The difference of God's video Camera that it spotted all the scences of my life. We only are able to see in our physical sight. but In that video, we will see all the scene had happened in my life. I can see the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. For example, I can see the angels who are doing urgent appeal to me in every corner of my life. I can realize all the danger points that I might choose wrong way. then I can praise once again the love that had been poured upon me through the whole my life.
Is this making sense according to the biblical analogical language?
I have also always enjoyed Dr. Hanna's classes because of his humble open minded approach founded firmly on scripture. We need a open dialogue between liberals and conservative rather than a polarization.
I liked your point regarding EGW does not equal the "spirit of prophecy" in it's entirety.
You also mentioned that someone said that we don't need anyone else than EGW, she gave us all the information we need. I think there is truth in this statement. In fact I would be willing to say that the Bible is all we need, or going beyond that creation is all we need ("they are without excuse" Rom 1:20).
We don't need anything more information per say from God's prophets, but the message of present truth will go forth with power as Spirit filled individuals bring God's message to a hungry world.
today and yesterday's discussion was very excited. Most challengeable thing is to having a greater faith than Abraham’s or Moses’. How could it possible? How can we have a greater faith? God does expects us to have that faith. It is deserved. Because I already saw the cross of Jesus, which is the most powerful evidence that God loves us and be with us. So it is possible to have a greater faith than prophets and patriarchs’.
I must continue by addressing the point of predestination in light of its different meanings. As mentioned in class predestination means will, purpose, freewill and intent. If we utilize all these meanings, we would be left with a lot more questions than we presently have. If we were predestined to freedom as God planned. Why as owner of the plan He never took charge fully?. Concerning the concept that deals with analogy I must agree it was murky initially and still needs more time to be critically assessed. However, It was refreshing to hear the concept that God is different from what He does or says everything. Everything we know about God has been revealed in the cosmos or creation. Outside of the cosmos we cannot know who God is hence where He (God) is he has revealed to us. To perceive the revelation of God it has to come in human form or else it would be difficult for us to understand if not impossible. It would also be above our heads and we could not explain it. Because of God condescending to humanity, we can use our limited and finite minds to express His revelation. Analogically we speak of God and we try our best to ascribe to Him His rightful authority with the best yet inadequate words or language we know. God extends his love to humanity gives them Grace although He transcends the universe and lives outside of it, but He came within its sphere gave humanity a fraction of his knowledge so man can utilize words to preach of him and point others to Him through the scriptures. He works “all in all” (Rom. 8:28)(1Cor.12:6) to be “all and in all” and then all his works must be understood to be working together for good for the justifying and glorifying of his beloved children. The result in this is a God doing His best in and through his creation and resulting in a satisfactory Divine work of God. Biblical language therefore is itself a work of God because he utilizes finite beings by inspiring or breathing (2 Pet.1:21) on them and allowing them to take his infinite truth and present them despite man’s imperfections. This has proven Beneficial for both Man and God. Man, in the sense that the bible gives him hope in Christ, and God in the sense that he is well pleased when he convicts men of sin and lovingly sets them free. Hence, biblical language is itself a useful tool that God utilizes to save humanity and to expose His work of love. Although God does not need humans to work or validate His work He works in Synergy with man to accomplish His good pleasure. The above text indicates Synergy both with God and with man. While his work is being accomplished through His words with man as the vessel, he monergistically works out the conviction of the hearts of men, because man cannot convict himself. (John 16:8). (Ephesians 3:20-21)Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever! Amen.
Herbert Oliphant Doctrine of God. Paper #1 I have been enlightened by the course. Of note are the following points that got me to develop my thought process on God and the way He works :( a) Any reference to God is anthropomorphic and is inadequate to fully express who God is and how He works. In fact, it is impossible for a Human being to adequately explain who God is because of the human limitation.(b)There is a close connection between Man’s works and God’s works.(Rom.8:28-30)(c) especially verses 29&30 which address predestination. (D) Monergy and Synergy. Firstly, I must revert to point (A) which speaks about anthropomorphic term. This concept was expanded on and breathed new life into my insight in light of the fact that while I knew that we as human beings are finite and God in terms of his personhood, intelligence and sphere, is definitely above us and supersedes us in all point as our Creator. I never really took as much time before, to examine the idea, that technically while God is respected as our creator, our concept of him helps to shape who He is to us individually. Hence, the argument that God is who we make Him is technically correct. In light of this fact however, it is incorrect if we use our analogy to express that God is nonexistent if we do not believe in Him or create an image of Him in our minds where we create Him in our image. Here I see a lack of available words to adequately explain who God is however my attempt is summed up in these words. God exists independently of us and can do without us but if we never perceived or created a Supreme Being in our thoughts and use our limited knowledge and understanding to converse among ourselves (Human) about God and interpret nature through a “God created all sense” and also if we had thrown out the bible then who or what would we ascribe the Creation, mysteries and Cosmos to?. No doubt, the evolution “Big Bang” theory would be a reasonable alternative, but the truth is there seem to be a Monergy on the one hand and Synergy on the other. We need Him and He as God certainly needs us. We need him for dependence and existence but he needs us to much lesser degrees and certainly not for any purpose to qualify Him as God because he is Omnipotent Eternal etc. My perspective of God defines who God is to me individually. The Sovereignty of God is however, not shaped by what we think or imagine. He is God Almighty believe it or not If we are dead or alive, rich or poor in other words Humanity cannot claim adoration of or praise for the creation of God or the universe, on the reverse God is entitled to worship and praise and He it was that created the universe. He (God) is responsible for the works of the Cosmos. 1Cor.12:6 God works all in all in order to be all and in all 1 Cor.15:28. Rom.8:30 that seemingly refer to predestination is still not clear to me and is not necessarily a concept that I am ready accept at this time. That God has predestined us to freedom sounds credible but this act of predestination of humanity to anything good or bad leads to a lot of controversy. If God has predestined us to freedom, how about respecting our right to choose bondage? We would not have freedom to make our personal choice right or wrong. I was blessed by the meaningful way the entire passage in Rom.8 was explained but the concept of predestined to freedom has not yet found root as I am still wrestling with the concept. Another concept that inflicts holes in this theory is the idea in verse 23 that we are waiting for the deliverance into freedom. If we were predestined to freedom why do we have to wait to receive it when we need it both now and from previous times?
45 comments:
Quigley Obrin Morris
Paper #1
Text from class discussions Day #1
1Corinthians 13: 12 (last part)
I know in part then I shall know fully even as I am fully known
It is all about the master of language; yes it is Brother Paul again, some how I am getting a feel for his writing. To me it really brings out a passion in me; he is describing two different situations here in two different places and both relate to human and their relationship with God.
He said “I know in part” this mean the physical body of man is capable to a boundary point. In fact the point is we are not able to do much with this sinful body that is locked in a sinful world. We are not able to understand or know the things that we want to know, or even understand the things that we want to understand.
“Then I shall know fully” he Paul is looking beyond this life, and beyond the boundary point where sin have no control on our bodies. In fact that sin corrupted body will be no more as the bible says “we will be change”. Then we will be able to know the things that were once beyond our wildest thoughts. With this obstructions remove it is only then that we will be able to know and understand the things of God more fully.
In the present of his redeemer his ability will increased and then the word fully comes in to play. The perfect transformation is completed and the once sinful man now goes beyond the boundaries of the sinful world and is able to know fully. And that is sinless quality that will be given only when the change is completed.
“Even as I am fully known” this is a knowledge that is privilege to God alone today. To fully know someone is to be able to read his mind; and today’s sinful man does not possess the qualities of that magnitude. It is only Gods knowledge that is complete. To measure our knowledge is only to compare us to each other; and that alone cannot take you too far. And man knowledge will never be like God’s or come close to His.
So Paul is saying I may not know every thing, but God knows me he knows now and he will know me when he comes again. I may not even understand who I am or who my neighbor is but the mighty God from his throne above knows us all. So the time is coming when His knowledge will be explained or I think it is better to say that Paul’s and our imperfect knowledge will be made complete by the only one who has always known us.
Thomas Oyaro Ong’ou
Like our Savior, who is God the son we are in this world to do service for God. We are here to become like God in character, and by a life of service to reveal Him to the world. In order to be co-workers with God, to become like Him and to reveal His character, we must know Him aright in our human language of understanding. We must know Him as He reveals Himself to us through the Bible that I am who I am.
I like what Fa'asoa M. about being humbled by God working in us. I need to be there daily.
I like Quigley's perspective that we know God because He knows us.
Ryan Hablitzel
ID #138672
This is a response to Jeff Marshall.
I enjoyed your explanations of the contrast between Hebrew and Greek thought. Too often we try to apply our Greek influenced western way of thinking to stories in the Old Testament. We often can't understand what is happening, when the reality is found in the depths of simplicity.
Ryan Hablitzel
ID #138672
This is a response to Fa’asoa M. Fa’asoa
To understand God is truly mind boggling. In some ways He is indescribable. Individuals can know God on a deeper level through a personal relationship and aspects of this relationship are indescribable within the confines of human language.
A response to Jeff...
Thank you for placing a visual illustration within the body of your reflection. I appreciate your perspectives on how we can in effect understand our own thoughts better. Perhaps we imitate without realizing what we're doing and in turn limit the vastness of what we could understand if we just came at it from a different avenue.
A response to Fa'asoa
(I just sent a post but it disappeared, so I will try to recreate the magic...)
I appreciated your comment. Every time we try to describe Jesus and his life, it's trying to describe two huge things. His humanity and his Divinity, there just aren't enough adjectives! As we stretch our minds to understand God, and get to the point where we understand a little bit more, and I do mean little, it takes us forever to get there, but we do, and I think that for God, as He guides us patiently, our struggle is worth it for Him, because it brings us a little bit closer to Him, and that's always worth it.
Jae Hyun Kwon said...
Response to Quigley Morris
Your sentence is so good as follows..
"So Paul is saying I may not know every thing, but God knows me he knows now and he will know me when he comes again."
Nevertheless I have been preaching many times at the SDA logical church for 12 years, I know Our God and his works restrictively.
When Jesus comes again, I want to know more about something which I do not know in the earth.
this is Gitack Ju' comments about Myongho Sin's reflection.
thank you for your insight.As I read your below sentences, i have a question in my mind.
'Time becomes a matter for only mortal beings. There will be no watch or clock in heaven where there are only eternal beings. Time would be totally different to those eternal beings and they may have different meaning of the time.' Then How do we worship every Sabbath in heaven?(Isa 66:22-23)
ther are some things that just do not stick with you. sometimes after reading through it seems that you are still at the point where it is greek to you. well Ryan's point of view reflect my thoughts when it comes to understanding God and how he works.i have descover it is better and easer to trust Him than to try to understand how He works. so that is all i do now, i do not spend time thinking about His methods of doing things but i trust i am safe in his methods of helping me.
Thomas highlight the importance of reflecting God's character. this cannot be over emphasie because that is what He had ask us to do. Jesus said if i be lifted up i will draw all men unto me. this can only be achived by our actions in helping people see Jesus in the lives that we live.
i am very understanding to Fa'asoa comment on the coming of Christ as a baby and the caonnection he made between the love he has for his girls and the love God have for the world. it was Enoch who said that when he had his first child that he understand how much God him. i would like to join the claim that our children will always give us a new look at life and would fine the need to place value on Christ's sacrifice for us. i do not thing i will die for my son, but Jesus dide for me before i even knew who he was.
Ryan
there is a strange idea going around that to be a scientist that one have to undermind the bible thesis. this opinion is far from the truth. i think that Ryan did make a good case in his presentation. i will like to add the real deal is to get someone who has a clear knowledge of Scientific teaching and a clear knoweldge of theolog. the two has always highlighted each other. what have made them stand apart it depends on who you are talking to. because the bible give a good account of all the finds that have been unearth around the world.
Fa’asoa M. Fa’asoa
07.15.2009
In Response to:
Massiel Davila per her response to my earlier comment concerning the shear majesty of our CREATOR!
Their plastic blue toy boat floats near them in their tub. Another toy, a slithery realistic rubber snake bobbling up and down with the motion of the bath water slowly sinks to the bottom; they squeal in glee as fresh watery bubbles cascade down their freshly washed smiley faces…oh so cute yet so noisy.
The bathroom floor immediately connected to the tub where I was kneeling begins to wet; my knees feel it. I would imagine that some may begin to feel irritated at the wetness of the experience but for me, as a dad, it’s sure bliss. No pun intended, but with every passing moment, I’m soaking up the experience.
My babies-four and one, growing up way too fast for my wife and me-deepening our feelings of wonderment and somewhat sadness as though were in a time-warp experience. I look into their beautiful faces and wonder in sheer amazing at how their long eye lashes, cherry red lips, light and medium brown hairs with red highlights and curls, the youngest-more so than the eldest-yet equally beautiful, lightly tanned skin tones, with obvious intelligence above their years, and sweet personalities to sandwich it within; and to top it off, they LOVE JESUS.
I’m floored. With all that I am learning and continue to learn in and out of class, I can only kneel-amazed at GOD’s workmanship in these girls-completely overwhelmed and at awe of our LORD-sure I have a million questions for Him; however, this one thing I know, Yesu Azali Awa Na Biso! (“Jesus is here with us!”)
By that I mean that He must have been present with me in my inspiring experience as I marvel at His creation-splashing like joyful dolphins in the tub. Yes my girls are created in my wife’s and my image, but in a very precious and special sense, because I believe in Biblical chronology-Adam and Eve were created in their CREATOR’s image and I belong to that line, I too then was created in my CREATOR’s image and thus my children.
After having said all of that-I completely agree with you my friend Massiel. As you said, “As we stretch our minds to understand God, and get to the point where we understand a little bit more, and I do mean little, it takes us forever to get there, but we do, and I think that for God, as He guides us patiently, our struggle is worth it for Him, because it brings us a little bit closer to Him, and that's always worth it.”
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh so worth it!
Ryan Hablitzel
ID #138672
This is a response to Massiel Davila.
I liked your point about wishing we could understand Dr. Hanna on the level that he thinks. I often wish I could get in to Paul's thinking. It is so difficult to express the depth of what you are trying to say.
Continue to study God's word, nature and have open dialogue with individuals within the church and we will continue to come to a greater understanding these challenging concepts. Dr. Hanna just has a few more years on us. Maybe someday we will be presenting more difficult questions and concepts???
Ryan Hablitzel
ID #138672
This is a response to Rodrigo de Galiza Barbosa:
Worship (especially worship music) is a hot topic in our church today. I think you zeroed in on the main point - worship is about God, not us. While worshipers receive a benefit from worship, many modern versions of worship have become self serving. When individuals have a self serving purpose in worship they have missed the point.
I am convinced that this quotation from the writings of E.G. White is applicable in our class discussions because we are dealing with the works of God in science and theology.”Christ crucified for our sins, Christ risen from the dead, Christ ascended on high, is the science of salvation that we are to learn and to teach.” Ministry of Healing, p. 424 .This is the true science of the salvation that we are going to study in heaven in all ages.
Fa’asoa M. Fa’asoa
THST520-Works of GOD
07.15.2009
In Response to: Ryan Hablitzel
ID #138672
This is a response to Rodrigo de Galiza Barbosa:
“Worship (especially worship music) is a hot topic in our church today. I think you zeroed in on the main point - worship is about God, not us. While worshipers receive a benefit from worship, many modern versions of worship have become self serving. When individuals have a self serving purpose in worship they have missed the point.”
While I agree with you Ryan, and thus Rodrigo on what I perceive to be the main thrust of your point, I also think that you may have missed the other side of the coin of that same point…and that is, YES…while worship may be focused on GOD, yet-let’s not forget that there is a very real experience that the worshiper participates in as a wholistic part of that worship experience.
So many worship experiences are, let’s be honest, right down DEAD! I have been in many Adventist and non churches who’s worship experience couldn’t/wouldn’t even wake the DEAD from their graves, yet I have also been to other worship services where the DEAD would probably turn over in their graves because of it’s over the topness…thus I prefer to explore the possibilities of a wholistic both.
Too often than not, if we are honest with ourselves, the “so-called” “issue” with worship music-contemporary or not, is used as an excuse to select what we really are use to, rather than taking an honest look at both what scripture teaches about it (worship, music etc.) in all its elements: Historical context, cultural context, and appropriation context; etc., and applying those wonderful Biblical principles of worship to worshiping the awesome REAL LIVING and HOLY GOD from our hearts with uplifted hands, hearts (emotions), mind, and spirit; imagine worshiping of a Holy GOD from SIN sick humans…even our worship is SIN infested…no matter what form it comes in…Read “I use to be perfect by George Night.”
The ONLY WAY that anything…and I MEAN ANYTHING WE HUMANS “DO” here on this filthy planet of ours for our CREATOR that would be acceptable to the HOLY GOD goes through the meritorious work of our SAVIOUR…YES…that includes yours and my WORSHIP…whether it be with the ORGAN/PIANO/GUITAR/DRUMS/Ukulele/or the harmonica. I don’t know about you, but as for me and my household, we will worship the LORD GOD with ALL our hearts/mind/soul/strength in dancing, singing, clapping our hands, reading scripture, and the spirit of prophecy…and even DRUMS!!! Let GOD’s HOLY NAME be praised by the lips of sinful humans intermingled with the blood of the LAMB! Halleluia! Vi’ia Le Ali’i!!!!
In response to Roshelle:
You said, "There is always a danger that we will become so “married” to our own “A HA” moment that it will become a point of doctrine rather than a point of on-going discussion." I agree. A book I once read on writing encouraged writers not to get too attached to their "little darlings," those phrases or thoughts that we really like but really don't help the big picture of what we're trying to communicate.
At the same time, I think we all agree, there are treasures in God's word we should never give up. Progressive truth goes deeper. In my opinion, it doesn't give up what has been previously revealed.
Response to Rodrigo:
You can't beat Job for some good thinking! I'm jealous you took an entire class on this book.
I was just thinking, doesn't Job reveal an incredibly dynamic interaction between Job and God (even though Job didn't know it)?
Wasn't God relying, to some degree, on Job? What if Jobe had cursed God? What would Satan have said to God then? What influence would that have had on the "sons of God?"
Quigley,
Thanks for the review it has help it has help me to clear some questions lingering in my mind.
Rosell,
I am happy with your analysis on reflections you did on your paper.
thank you.
i read a very intresting point of view from Ryan which robs on my mind. it highlight the facts that are well known around some christian circules and carry with it all the bibical logical explanation that many have refuse to pay attention to. there is no dought that the poat modern theology on creation is corrupted. Mrs. White said in one of her books i do not remember now that when these topices are being discussed the devil has special angels that he send to this meetings. we should be very careful because creation story prove that there is a God. because of that fact the devil is doing all that he can to destroy the story of creation with his own corrupted story which undermind the existance of God.
Dennis said
the story of creation is a mystery adn i agree with this statement. this mystery is not easy to understand. and God had not try to prove that he is there. he is not in a debate over his existance the bible simply say in the begining God create the heaven and the earth. so in its complex revelation we who have believe should show patience in dealing with thoes who are blinded by the devil's education. i think dennnis is on the right tract and i do share his point of view along this line.
Some valuable discussion has arisen from my proposal that: if God created us to be free and to make informed decisions, then God is free and makes informed decisions. As has been pointed out by some participants, there is a clear distinction between the Creator and the creation. The Creator is not created as is his creation. Also, the Creator is not finite as is his creation.
I agree with these comments wholeheartedly. At the same time, the finite creation does reflect the glory of the Creator. In addition, the Creator can and did become incarnate in the finite creation to reveal the truth about God in terms that can be understood within the creation. Where we are limited as creatures, God is unlimited as Creator.
We do not understand fully the things of God. But if, as God’s creation, we view ourselves as free; and if we view freedom as superior to lack of freedom; surely it is reasonable to view God as infinitely free because he has uncreated freedom. Similarly, if, we can make informed decisions which we view as superior to uninformed decisions; surely it is reasonable to view God as able to make informed decisions.
A further statement may be needed with regard to the delicate question of the ability of the Creator and created beings to freely choose between righteousness and sin. My proposal is that there is no righteousness or sin without freedom. God is not righteous because he lacks freedom. Rather, God always uses his freedom in righteous ways.
Ultimately, however, the question is not about what I think is reasonable, but about what has been revealed in Scripture. Has not God been revealed as omniscient/all knowing (1 Jn 3:20) and therefore as informed? Has not God revealed himself as having “a free spirit” (Ps 51:12). Does not the righteousness of God involve freedom from sin (Rom 6:18, 20, 22). Is not the law of freedom (Jms 1:25; 2:12) a transcript of God’s character?
I believe that God has faith and needs it. Because the Bible says, God is love and according to His nature of love, definitely He posseses faith. because, without faith, love cannot stand. and the very faith He has might different with our faith. and just as Dr. Hannah mentioned, our faith is a part of His faith.
in response to Fa’asoa
I like your expression 'dead worship' sometimes I was dead through worship services not because of what kind or form of worship but how I worship. I agree with your point that we must worship in spirit and truth. We should be a minister who is able to give people the water of life instead of killing
Thanks Dr. Hannah
I like the sentence you made; "Jesus killed death"
We should follow Jesus' example
Let's kill the dead!
Herbert for the elaboration on the Doctrine of God.
Thanks Herbert for your elaboration on the Doctrine of God.
I was reading what Fred and Rochelle said about Abraham and I agree, he was a man on a journey with God. One question, I thought Abraham was emphasized because of his great faith and obedience. We can't talk about everything in one class period but Abraham's willingness to sacrafice his son is an enormous demonstration of faith and work in my book. I believe there is a danger in making Abraham too much like us just as there is a danger in making him a super hero.
There are a few comments reacting to the idea that God can know passively. The Bible seems to indicate this is possible--flood, Babel, Sodom. These correlate with the point Dr. Hanna made with the question, "Does God know evil actively or passively?" I"m curious, are there any biblical examples of God passively learning something good?
Ryan Hablitzel
#138672
This is a response to cheese, cheese, cheese.
I like your conclusion that cheese eaters and non cheese eaters can coexist. Too offen the two sides see each other as either sinners or offbeats.
The following is not in respose to the writer but thoughts generated by what was written:
I would suggest that we are careful how we speak about eating cheese and salvation. Sure, the lack of cheese in one's diet does not impart salvation; however, cheese could be a salvation issue for some people. If you are at the point in your walk with God that He convicts you to stop eating cheese and you rebell against this convition until the day you die - it could become a salvation issue.
I eat cheese. I love it. But someday God is going to convict me that I need to give it up. Laughing off the issue and concluding it is not a salvation issue while shoving a wedge of cheese in my mouth will speaks much higher volumes about my relationship with God than the act of eating cheese itself.
Maybe we should start taking God's dietary advice more seriously? Maybe there is a blessing we are missing out on?
Ryan Hablitzel
ID #138672
This is a response to Roshelle:
I found our last class facinating also. It's true Abraham was no saint, yet this never crossed my mind before.
Maybe Abraham will marvel at our faith someday???
it was good to read massiel's point of view and she did express my feeling on thursday's class discussions.this topic is deep and it had not dawn on me that this was where we were heading. i believe that science will over ride theology because all the attention in the world today is geared towards science. the post modern peole sees their hope in science; and that position will contuine to become more popular as the years roll on.
Myong point is well taken; God's work and the way he works is still unknown to us. that is why Myong i have always tell my people do not try to understand God. just trust him, we should all have a deeper understanding of Him if we trust Him more.
Comment on what Ryan wrote:
"I don't think the approach was the key; it was the Spirit filled individual." I really like this. Sometimes we get too caught up in techniques and programs. I, too, have bee highly influenced by people like this.
Thomas wrote: "We are here to become like God in character, and by a life of service to reveal Him to the world." I agree. It seems we sometimes get caught in huge debates over things that can be very beautiful. What will unite us?
Jae Hyun Kwon said...
# Paper 3
about the blessing being foreknown.
Dr. Hanna said framework of salvation in order as follow.
“Foreknowledge – Predestination – Calling – justification – Glorification”
He said God fore-knew everything earlier more predestination.
I agree with his lecture and it is true
Foreknowledge was into His heart from eternity. But I who am limited do not the point of eternity.
If that it is true (we know that It is true), He kept the plan of salvation in mind. Genesis 3:15 is the preparation against the sin of human.
So God displayed preparations about several figures looked like curse in Genesis, nevertheless human disobeyed the law of God.
On the other Word, God who fore-knows everything even depravity of Adam & Eve, put the blessing into the curse. So, Human should find the blessing in the process of accomplishment of the object of God.
We can always recognize everything of the works of God; just understand something which appears in our life. So the bible tells us “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are you ways my ways”(Isaiah55:8). We can see the first curse in the Genesis 3 after human being was created. It was occurred as a result of sin.
The Bible said that “Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee”(Gen3:16). The woman will give birth with pain, but we can find the special work of God by delivery. He got the work of God that is called as a blessing into pain according. “Repeated conception was therefore intended to be a blessing, not a curse.”
The Command of God is the Act of God, the Work of God because He put His intentional will into the command of God. He said that Adam can eat his food by the sweet of his brow, but here is a hidden work of God.
“Since Adam’s fall human achievement may be realized only through toil. Nevertheless, it should be recognized that this punishment was indeed a blessing in disguise for sinful beings.” (SDABC Vol 1, 235)
so, We can find the Work of God(blessing) in the process of carring out His will.
It is very interesting that God put it into the curse.
So, If we find an intention of God kike this, We can get more blessing in our life.
God bless you.
from Jae Hyun kwon
Fred okemwa.
THST 520 Works of God.
Final exam.2nd part.
7/29/2009.
C. What have you learned about the interpretation of biblical language concerning the works of God?
The biblical language is analogical in nature in the sense that the language which is used is the language that we are able to grasp. For instance when the bible says that God’s hand is not short to save, it does not imply that God has really a hand but in some sense there is away in which God a hand. With the use of biblical language, I have also learned progressively that there are no perfect answers for any problem. When you discuss the bible question from one side, the other side also awaits for discussion. I have also learned that in understanding the bible language and try to give a fair explanation it is wise to use the holistic model.
D.In what ways is biblical language itself a work of God
The biblical language it self is the work of God due the fact that inspiration through which we have the bible language was the work of God. In the book of 2nd Tim 3:16 Paul says that all scripture is given by the inspiration of God. Though we don’t believe in the verbal mechanism of inspiration we can deduce that God controlled the language that the prophets used in writing down the revelation of God. 2nd peter 1:21 says that the holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the spirit.
Fred Okemwa
THST 520 Works of God.
Reflection paper 4.
“One can’t believe that time is such short” it has been an interesting class for the past four weeks in a journey of trying to understand the works of God. It is true that some of us with all the newness of being in this place for the first time, I must confess the fact that my one month study in trying to understand the work of God had completely changed my view about God and how he works. I want to appreciate Dr. Hanna’s for guiding us to understand some of the complicated bible texts such as Romans 8:28-30, not only such but the entire bible as well. It was interesting to listen from him when discussing topics such as judgment, the close of probation, the latter rain the handing over and others. It true that the holistic model if used to in the study of these topics and many others their will minimal queries concerning God and his work.
Part of this week and last week it has been interesting to listen from presenters of different topics as far as concerning the work of God and it is amazing of the valuable information that we got from those presentations. Some times through those presentations we got an opening to discuss other insights that are related to God’s work.
May the Good God continue to bless our professor Dr.Hanna and all of us as we seek to explore more and more in the works of God. To those that will be graduating may God bless and have the best wishes ever on Earth.
Reflection to the lecture and question to Dr. Hanna
"God judges nothing before the time"
This is good news for us.
We are the one who has the strong and urgent message about the judgment of God to the world of Babylon. I'm sure that God's judgment is a means to tesitfy the love of God for all including the Lucifer. All will praise or admit His love.
I have a dramatized judgment story for beginners.
We are going to watch a video in the process of the judgment. and the video surely enough different from what we have now. The difference of God's video Camera that it spotted all the scences of my life. We only are able to see in our physical sight. but In that video, we will see all the scene had happened in my life.
I can see the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. For example, I can see the angels who are doing urgent appeal to me in every corner of my life. I can realize all the danger points that I might choose wrong way. then I can praise once again the love that had been poured upon me through the whole my life.
Is this making sense according to the biblical analogical language?
Ryan Hablitzel
ID #138672
This is a response to:
Roshelle
Reflection Paper #4
I have also always enjoyed Dr. Hanna's classes because of his humble open minded approach founded firmly on scripture. We need a open dialogue between liberals and conservative rather than a polarization.
Ryan Hablitzel
ID #138672
This is a response to:
Morris Carlyle
I liked your point regarding EGW does not equal the "spirit of prophecy" in it's entirety.
You also mentioned that someone said that we don't need anyone else than EGW, she gave us all the information we need. I think there is truth in this statement. In fact I would be willing to say that the Bible is all we need, or going beyond that creation is all we need ("they are without excuse" Rom 1:20).
We don't need anything more information per say from God's prophets, but the message of present truth will go forth with power as Spirit filled individuals bring God's message to a hungry world.
Gitack Ju said..
today and yesterday's discussion was very excited. Most challengeable thing is to having a greater faith than Abraham’s or Moses’.
How could it possible? How can we have a greater faith?
God does expects us to have that faith. It is deserved. Because I already saw the cross of Jesus, which is the most powerful evidence that God loves us and be with us. So it is possible to have a greater faith than prophets and patriarchs’.
Ryan, I've totally agree with you on your theses. thank you.
Oliphant Herbert
Doctrine of God Paper #2
I must continue by addressing the point of predestination in light of its different meanings. As mentioned in class predestination means will, purpose, freewill and intent. If we utilize all these meanings, we would be left with a lot more questions than we presently have. If we were predestined to freedom as God planned. Why as owner of the plan He never took charge fully?. Concerning the concept that deals with analogy I must agree it was murky initially and still needs more time to be critically assessed. However, It was refreshing to hear the concept that God is different from what He does or says everything. Everything we know about God has been revealed in the cosmos or creation. Outside of the cosmos we cannot know who God is hence where He (God) is he has revealed to us. To perceive the revelation of God it has to come in human form or else it would be difficult for us to understand if not impossible. It would also be above our heads and we could not explain it. Because of God condescending to humanity, we can use our limited and finite minds to express His revelation. Analogically we speak of God and we try our best to ascribe to Him His rightful authority with the best yet inadequate words or language we know. God extends his love to humanity gives them Grace although He transcends the universe and lives outside of it, but He came within its sphere gave humanity a fraction of his knowledge so man can utilize words to preach of him and point others to Him through the scriptures. He works “all in all” (Rom. 8:28)(1Cor.12:6) to be “all and in all” and then all his works must be understood to be working together for good for the justifying and glorifying of his beloved children.
The result in this is a God doing His best in and through his creation and resulting in a satisfactory Divine work of God. Biblical language therefore is itself a work of God because he utilizes finite beings by inspiring or breathing (2 Pet.1:21) on them and allowing them to take his infinite truth and present them despite man’s imperfections. This has proven Beneficial for both Man and God. Man, in the sense that the bible gives him hope in Christ, and God in the sense that he is well pleased when he convicts men of sin and lovingly sets them free. Hence, biblical language is itself a useful tool that God utilizes to save humanity and to expose His work of love. Although God does not need humans to work or validate His work He works in Synergy with man to accomplish His good pleasure. The above text indicates Synergy both with God and with man. While his work is being accomplished through His words with man as the vessel, he monergistically works out the conviction of the hearts of men, because man cannot convict himself. (John 16:8). (Ephesians 3:20-21)Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever! Amen.
Herbert Oliphant
Doctrine of God. Paper #1
I have been enlightened by the course. Of note are the following points that got me to develop my thought process on God and the way He works :( a) Any reference to God is anthropomorphic and is inadequate to fully express who God is and how He works. In fact, it is impossible for a Human being to adequately explain who God is because of the human limitation.(b)There is a close connection between Man’s works and God’s works.(Rom.8:28-30)(c) especially verses 29&30 which address predestination. (D) Monergy and Synergy. Firstly, I must revert to point (A) which speaks about anthropomorphic term. This concept was expanded on and breathed new life into my insight in light of the fact that while I knew that we as human beings are finite and God in terms of his personhood, intelligence and sphere, is definitely above us and supersedes us in all point as our Creator. I never really took as much time before, to examine the idea, that technically while God is respected as our creator, our concept of him helps to shape who He is to us individually. Hence, the argument that God is who we make Him is technically correct. In light of this fact however, it is incorrect if we use our analogy to express that God is nonexistent if we do not believe in Him or create an image of Him in our minds where we create Him in our image. Here I see a lack of available words to adequately explain who God is however my attempt is summed up in these words. God exists independently of us and can do without us but if we never perceived or created a Supreme Being in our thoughts and use our limited knowledge and understanding to converse among ourselves (Human) about God and interpret nature through a “God created all sense” and also if we had thrown out the bible then who or what would we ascribe the Creation, mysteries and Cosmos to?. No doubt, the evolution “Big Bang” theory would be a reasonable alternative, but the truth is there seem to be a Monergy on the one hand and Synergy on the other. We need Him and He as God certainly needs us. We need him for dependence and existence but he needs us to much lesser degrees and certainly not for any purpose to qualify Him as God because he is Omnipotent Eternal etc. My perspective of God defines who God is to me individually. The Sovereignty of God is however, not shaped by what we think or imagine. He is God Almighty believe it or not If we are dead or alive, rich or poor in other words Humanity cannot claim adoration of or praise for the creation of God or the universe, on the reverse God is entitled to worship and praise and He it was that created the universe. He (God) is responsible for the works of the Cosmos. 1Cor.12:6 God works all in all in order to be all and in all 1 Cor.15:28.
Rom.8:30 that seemingly refer to predestination is still not clear to me and is not necessarily a concept that I am ready accept at this time. That God has predestined us to freedom sounds credible but this act of predestination of humanity to anything good or bad leads to a lot of controversy. If God has predestined us to freedom, how about respecting our right to choose bondage? We would not have freedom to make our personal choice right or wrong. I was blessed by the meaningful way the entire passage in Rom.8 was explained but the concept of predestined to freedom has not yet found root as I am still wrestling with the concept. Another concept that inflicts holes in this theory is the idea in verse 23 that we are waiting for the deliverance into freedom. If we were predestined to freedom why do we have to wait to receive it when we need it both now and from previous times?
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