The first two chapters of Act & Being were pleasantly surprising. I appreciated Gunton’s immediate contrast of Greek and Hebrew thought. Still more surprising was how far he takes the contrasting perspectives. Hebraic thought focuses on the acts of God where Greek thought focuses on the essence, or being, of God—hence the title, Act & Being. I thought it might be beneficial for myself and anyone doing the “reflection” portion of our assignment to synthesize Greek and Hebrew thought. I just finished the course Revelation, Inspiration and Hermeneutics from Dr. Canale so I borrow from his explanations. Greek thought largely stems from Platonic thinking. What is that? In the U. S. We use the phrase “it’s a platonic relationship” to indicate our friend is just a friend and there is nothing more, like girlfriend-boyfriend. In other words there’s a certain amount of separateness between us. Plato taught just that but in relation to the supernatural. In other words, the supernatural is completely separate from the physical, temporal world. Let me illustrate: think of two broad lines, yellow and blue, painted parallel on a wall. In Greek thinking those lines would be parallel but not touching. In fact, there would be space between them as the supernatural and the natural do not mix. In Hebrew thinking the same two lines are parallel but they overlap i.e. the two colors would share a green line indicating the interaction of yellow and blue. So what’s the point? Greek, platonic thought builds on the philosophy of complete separateness of the supernatural with the natural. Hebrew thought notices separateness (yellow and blue) but also teaches that those two really interact. It should be noted that Greek thought eventually came to place the supernatural within the natural but not with true cause-effect interaction. Hence there are blue dots within the yellow and vice versa. Still, there is no green, no true interaction, in the Greek model. “It is when Christian theology becomes dependent on the philosophers’ speculations rather than on the equivalent Old Testament polemics against paganism that the troubles begin.” p. 6.
Thomas Oyaro Thanks Jeff for your idea however to me Iam at the book to have an analogy of both divine and human action. There is some good sense that we can pick from the book which is relevant to the works of God. Because God uses human language to express his ideas to man. Both Hebrew and Greek languages cannot explictly explain the nature of God's action and being.
I don't mean greek and hebrew languages but greek and hebrew thought/philosophy. I was only trying to help describe these two in light of a class I just finished.
Fa’asoa M. Fa’asoa July 7th, 2009 Ephesians 3:14-20 Analogical Nature of Theological Language Response to our class discussion
Overwhelmed-completely weighted with the abundant, full, cosmic awesome love of GOD-in humility Paul cries out, “…when I think about these things, I fall to my knees and pray….” Ephesians 3:14 Paul, whom in days past as Saul the Pharisee and a know it all, in abated breath, after a single point and experience in time within a single pulsating thought, suddenly realizes his utter lack in knowledge of who GOD IS and what HE DOES-one concept closely woven and microscopically connected to the other. Limited human analogical language cannot but minutely comprehend the absolute infiniteness of the CREATOR of the cosmos, yet it pleased Him to appear incarnate in a baby-within the warm cradle of a virgin’s womb-in human flesh so as to accomplish the mystery of saving my kind-human kind-mankind from itself. “In Him (Colossians 2:9,10) dwelt all the fullness of GOD...” My finite mind cannot even begin to imagine wrapping around such a concept. How is it possible for one to be like yet unlike a man-child all at the same time? He is monogenes yet was/is able to have experienced our darkness to such a level whereby He is able to claim legitimacy as Saviour of the lacking and yet retained divinity? Paul, in my opinion responded appropriately. When I, not Paul but Fa’asoa think on these things, I too fall to my knees and pray, yet even in this very action, in some mysterious sense, GOD is at work “…within my members...” My daughters are my life in a unique sense; both very different from one another yet very similar in many ways. My eldest (Carissa-Jean P Fa’asoa) is four and a half going on twenty, mature for her age; and my youngest (Christina-Grace I Fa’asoa) one and a half-also going on twenty, imitating sister with almost every fiber in her being…almost. Both are full of life, rambunctious, vivacious, and gorgeous with year round tans-have their dad wrapped around their little fingers. Having observed them from before they were born in some limited sense, serenading them with my voice aided by the guitar while in utero, connected to them genetically and otherwise yet mysteriously all their own-connected to GOD. Their language development, the changing of their features in time, their personalities and their ever developing sense of personhood is mind boggling. Rightly did the psalmist (Psalm 8:3) penned, “When I consider the works of your hands…who am I?” My prayer is that I would ever be mindful of who I am and who He is, and with Paul, may I ever be quick to pray when considering the Almighty and His works.
You are right jeff. I have also read the first two chapters of the book act and being,the author is talking about the Hebrew law and Greek philosophy. Indeed there is no human law and philosophy that can explain who God is because He is the Iam who Iam.
Ilike what thomas said that neither the Greek nor the Hebrew philosophy can be able lead us fully to understand the works of God. Ihave also read the article by Fa'asoa and i do also acknowledge the fact that human analogical language cannot fathom the infimiteness of the cretor of the universe.
jeff I appreciate what you have to about the vast difference between Hebrew and greek thought. I took Canale as well and am however changed. I want to add that while human language IS limited in its ability to describe God it is all we have. There is no other way for us to tell each other the grandness of God but through our feeble language. We just need to do the best we can and believe that God will fill in the gaps as he sees fit.
In response to Thomas Ong'ou's last statement.I think it is ok to refer to God as the I AM but the last reference about 'who Iam' seem to suggest that you are God.This is your statement "..He is the Iam who Iam"
I appreciate Jeff's attempt to explain Gunton's intricate concept re Hebrew and Greek thought on God.Sounds more to me like what the Apostle Paul calls "the foolishness of.." In fact thats the way i feel whenever i try to explain who God is.
Let me try again: Greek thought believes God doesn't really interact with us and that the supernatural is ONLY abstract. Hebrew thinking believes God REALLY interacts with us and, though He is far above us, He is NOT only abstract.
Dr. Hanna's discussion regarding the postmodern's acceptance of dialogue between science and theology has been quite revealing to me. My challenge lies at the practical level of implementing a positive dialogue between science and theology in Adventist Universities.
The majority of postmodern dialogue between science and religion is based upon a corrupted understanding. Theology has been corrupted into a state of spiritualistic thought. Science has been corrupted into a practice based upon a corrupt understanding of reality. With this huge push toward a corrupt dialogue between science and theology it is difficult to move into a true dialogue between science and theology.
Corrupt scientific and theological thought has effected the way our universities do science and theology. The big question in my mind is - how do we move beyond this corrupt dialogue into a true dialogue that is relatively free from corruption?
I believe that our universities must begin the dialogue between science and theology by recognizing the source of all science and theology. By holding the Creator Himself as the standard of ultimate truth one can begin his or her study with the understanding that ultimate truth is found in God alone and will not be obtained by the creature who can continually grow in knowledge toward truth. Science and theology based upon God, who is the ultimate truth, can begin to inter into a proper dialogue.
Is it possible that our science departments will begin to become the pinnacle of scientific thought as they begin to view science with a new paradigm? Will science be advanced to the next generation as it begins to study the creation with the presupposition that there is a creator who reveals Himself is His creation? Will the relationships of cytoplasm and the nucleus of a cell be seen in a new light? Can dialogue between Biblical theology and the science departments move science to the next generation of understanding?
Likewise, will theology move to the next level as it recognizes God's revelation in creation? Can science that recognizes the God of the Bible help move theology to the next level?
I believe the answer to these questions is yes, but unfortunately the solution is not that simple. Maybe as we take the practical advice given by the prophet to raise our children with the opportunity to grow a garden and learn of their Creator, they will begin to understand the Creator in a deeper way through His creation.
Roshelle Brenneise THST520 – The Works of God July 9, 2009
Reflection Paper #1
I admit it… I have been “Canale’d” – an affectionate term to describe a person who has taken a class from Dr. Canale. As I was reading the first two chapters of Act and Being, I could not help but be thankful to Dr. Canale for his incredible insights into the effect of Greek philosophy on Christian thought. And as the book states, it is a crime that Greek philosophy replaced the Old Testament as the theological foundation for the doctrine of God. The book states further that it is essentially true in the study of Theology that when you make a minor shift in one area it will have major impact on other areas. Because of Greek philosophy God is no longer viewed as being interested and active in the affairs of planet earth. He became and remains distant and completely unknowable. The beauty of this class The Works of God is that our thoughts of God are being shifted back to a God of action and away from a God who is simply just, or holy or powerful or longsuffering. God knows the limitations of our language and He chose to work within those limitations. With Moses He could have said, “my name is SO and SO and I like to called THIS and THAT”, to which Moses might very well have replied, “HUH?”, but instead God said something very simple I AM WHO I AM. Human language cannot define me, but I will define myself in how I deal with you and with Israel and with Egypt and…. and…. and. We see then, in His actions, His justice in the ten plagues, His longsuffering in the desert, His Holiness on Mt Sinai, His goodness in bringing manna and his power in parting the Red Sea. Suddenly those simple words have new meaning and give our feeble minds fresh insights into the God we serve. How cool is that!!!!
Fa'asoa, Loved what you said man about the awesomeness of God and how it brings you to your knees. ME TOO!! Also, I remain amazed that while we are finite and God is infinite and because of that we can never (even the other side of heaven) know Him fully, he went out of His way and walked among us so that we can know Him as mech as is HUMANLY possible. Mind blowing stuff!!!
Rodrigo de Galiza Barbosa Paper presented to the class works of God July 10, 2009
OUR PLEASURE OR GOD´S PLEASURE ? Is biblical worship our work or God´s work How do a philosophy of salvation affects liturgy
Seventh-day Adventist sees themselves as preachers of the 3rd angels´ message of Rv.14:6-12 to the world. And right at the third ´´commandment`` of the first message says ´´worship`` God (see tense of this words). It implies that worship theme is part of this message. And maybe it is a major part of it since to ´´fear`` and to ´´give glory`` (the previous ´´commandments`` of the angel) to God is part of the liturgical process of the relationship of the creature with its Creator as reflected in the context of Revelation (see reference). So it is important to evaluate which kind of worship we are offering or teaching to those whom we are calling. Since in the same context are presented a opposite kind of worship (v.9). And it is interesting that both the first and third angelic messages explicit mention worship ´´saying with a loud voice``, and the second do not mention it explicitly (wine and fornication implicit refer to pagan worship). Is this showing that this topic is of major importance in the context of these messages? The book of Revelation says that there are two categories of worshipers. And the end of them is very different. Those who worship the beast will be throw into the hell fire (Rv.14:10,11; 20:14,15) and those who worship the Lamb will live and praise God forever (Rv.15:3,4). So worship have a major role in the destiny of humankind in the prospective of the book. In relation to the beast of Revelation and the topic of worship is the prophecy of Daniel 7 and 8 and II Thessalonians 2 (BEALE, G.K. The temple and the Church´s mission – a biblical theology of the dwelling place of God. Vol.17 series New Studies in biblical theology D.A. Carson (ed) Intervarsity Press: Downers Grove,IL. 2004. chap.8). In both passages the reference to worship in the context of the sanctuary liturgy is presented. Rodriguez´s comments about these issues, related specifically to chapter 8 of Daniel says: ´´This horn acts against the Yahwistic cult…the horn assumes the authority of the Prince´s priestly ministry `` (DARCOM series, vol.2, p.534,536). Have the little horn-beast kind of worship still have influence in the Christian world ? If yes, how much have that influence affect SDA ? Some have suggesting that the answer is ´´yes`` for the first question and ´´very much`` for the second. Independent movements of the Seventh-day Adventist church have strong criticism on these topics. Even in the cover of one recent publication shows people dacing with the cross behind them. Publications have been given out criticizing the model of some Seventh-day Adventist (SDA) liturgy relating it to the beast type of worship presenting the neo-pentecostals as a model that have influenced SDA´s. Are they right? Our hypothesis is that a adoration centered on God´s works presented in the revelation will differ from a liturgy that goes out of these direction and points to the creation, or humans´ works, as the bases of its worship. In contrasting the high emphasis on human rationalism and emotion with a more Scripture based liturgy, we can trace some relation to some characteristics of the type of worship of the little horn beast and of the kind of worship of the Lamb. The relation of this research to the topic WORKS OF GOD is how worship is centered in the fact of Creation and new creation (salvation) through history as the reason to worship God. And what are the implication of a Christian adoration that is focused on what God did, worked, instead of based on another thing such as the present emotions of the creation.
Fa´asoa I really enjoy the point of your posting, showing that one of the goals of the Revelation is to make as humble. As God is humble and meek, when we get in contact with Him we become like Him, humble too. Like EGW (Revelation) said, the first and most important principle of heaven is service, loving-service to one another. And remember what Paul (Revelation) said in Phil2:3-5.
Ryan, I think your reflection about the difficult of dialogue with postmodern secular people are right. The problem it is not only the subject we address, but how we address. When we use the language of secularism, we maybe are using their thinking, because our model of talking, channel, reflects the message that we talk. This is why I am researching about worship language (see my post). And education, like you said, have all to do with this subject. Happy Sabbath to all.
I was completely floored, impressed, inspired and left wondering after Thursday’s class. I appreciated Dr. Hanna’s simple break down of how our views of Science and Theology haves changed from the Pre Modern Era, through the Modern Era, and now into the post modern Era. Any discussion that deals with this subject matter has always been interesting to me. Up until now, it has mainly been in regards to how “Post Moderns” do church, or view worship or how they’re relationally minded. Those are valuable discussions to have, but until yesterday, it hadn’t occurred to me how deeply this issue would be played out in theology. Perhaps that was naïve of me, but it made me shake my head a bit and begin to begin understanding how really nothing ever stays the same, and that truth must be guarded and evaluated, and updated so that we have the tools necessary to defend truth. I’m not saying that we need to update our doctrines, but more, update how we defend and present our beliefs. The advantage of the time we live in is that everybody will at least give you an initial opportunity to share. It’s this universal respect that people have for one another’s opinions that has tolerance at an all time high. The disadvantage is that now, ways that have worked in the past, like listing the irrefutable facts about the seventh day Sabbath and expecting the evidence alone to convict someone, will most likely make the first conversation the last. To step into the current pulse of the world, we have to accept that it is an ongoing dialogue with a person. A presentation of what you know and believe, in today’s language, without forcefulness. It’s not to say that our passion in what we believe needs to be subdued, but in fact, our passion souls should outweigh our passion for winning a debate. The same way that our understanding of God is ongoing, what we share with someone can be ongoing. And I think that revealing to someone upfront that you don’t pretend to have all the answers, but want to share what you know would only further open the doors for us. This is actually the second response I write for this week, in the first one I wrote, I waxed long about how God chooses to communicate to us. How he has to communicate to us based on the limitations of our reality. As Dr. Hanna had been sharing with us in class, what we know of God is based within the cosmos and the word. I’m sure God could make himself even more understood if He could talk to us the way He thought, but that doesn’t work for us minute humans. For example, we’re sitting with our backs turned to God, so we’re not struck down by his sheer glory, and He’s just talking to us about Himself, maybe even the way He communicates to the angels, don’t you think our heads would just explode? I’m using this very flawed analogy to articulate the idea that God speaks to us in our language. Shouldn’t we endeavor to do the same with the rest of the world when we’re sharing what we know of God? Instead of limiting ourselves, or clinging to our reliable Adventist language and illustrations, can we instead speak the current language, using current information to share our ever current God? The question that I’m still grappling with, I must admit, is how do we do that without loosing our integrity, the core, the most important thing.? How can we speak the current language and still sound like ourselves?
In this discussion about format of speaching we need to reflect if the language we use is affected by what we believe. If yes, so can we use relativistic words to express absolute truth...just to think Massiel and friend
Creation is a mystery that is difficult for humans to understand. By the word of His mouth, God created all that we see. “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth” (Genesis 1:1). This is a breathtaking affirmation. First, it denies the eternity of the creation. The expression, “In the beginning” (Hebrew beresit), pinpoints the commencement of the material Universe. The sun, moon and stars, the animals, plants and Adam and Eve. Though the Universe began, God always was (Psalm 90:2)! The New Testament declares: “In the beginning was [en,the Greek imperfect form of the verb meaning “to exist,” thus, “always was existing”] the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was “God” (John 1:1). Second, the Cause is identified—“God.” The name “God” here is "Elohim". Watson wrote: “Elohim" seems to be the general appellation by which the Triune Godhead is collectively distinguished in Scripture.” Thus, the plural Elohim suggests that multiple personalities within the Godhead created (bara—a singular verb stressing the unity of their action) the Universe. The Godhead is further alluded to by the use of plural pronouns in the narrative (Genesis 1:26). Attempts to explain such references as a divine accommodation to human terminology, Also, many hold the Creation account of Genesis to be a fable. Yet, as the open minded individual studies the wonders of nature, the unfolding of a flower, the pink glow of a newborn's hand, the planets in their precise order, one cannot help, but have a greater appreciation of who God is and the miracles that He can perform. Others suppose that Creation is a fable, like many of the other stories of Genesis. However, since many of these have been proven correct as archeological evidence is unearthed (see the Surprising Discoveries section of this site), then the truthfulness of those leads one to conclude that the Bible is also truthful about a literal seven day creation.
How can we define God? And How He works? It is not possible for us to describe God’s attributes with human way of expressions. This is what I used to explain God’s attributes in my Bible study. If we are able to understand or recognize God fully, He is not the God any more worthy to be worshiped or feared. God is somehow a greater, higher and superior being. He is the Creator of all the universe. And we are a little tiny spot of his creatures. We are limited by time and space. We talked about time in our class. I agree that God created time for us. But to the Creator, time is his one of the creatures and does not a matter. Time becomes a matter for only mortal beings. There will be no watch or clock in heaven where there are only eternal beings. Time would be totally different to those eternal beings and they may have different meaning of the time. Just as Peter said in his letter; “But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.”(II Peter 3:8) We are living in this present time only and toward future. But God doesn’t need to separate the time as past, present and future. He is able to see in on one page of all the history including the future. What an amazing He is! How awesome He is! But we only can see the present page and remember only the past but unable to change. We need to open our eyes to see God’s works in our lives in a way that God works. I want to pray like David prayed “Open my eyes, that I may see Wondrous things from your law”(Psalms 119:18) If we try to see the works of God in our perspectives, we might see him just as a heathen god or an idol. We are to continue to ask God to grant us His wondrous and mysterious things as we seek the works of God.
I was impressed by the Mini-lecture about the relationship between the theology and science. In order to learn the true science, we need to meet God, the Creator who has designed the science. We have to experience much more God’s works in our Christian life. The characteristic of the postmodern era is confusion(syncretism). It is really difficult to define true or false in this age. That’s reason why we should have clear picture of the truth through the God’s words and study the true works of God. Natural science has been dominating the modern era. And atheism and evolutionism has been preoccupied in most schools of this postmodern world and their scientists and teachers. The true science is in the words of God.
JaeHyun Kwon Said... THST520 – The Works of God July 13, 2009
Reflection Paper #1
I want to scribe my reflections, taking the Dr. Hanna's class of first week, even though it is a lack of my power of expression on account of an unskillfullness of language. Firstly, it is concerned with the creative work of God about Adam and Eve. God created all thing by His Word (John1:1-3; Gen1) according to the order. He however created Eve in the different way with Adam. He could make Eve and Adam at the same time, but He had a special process to create Eve. Especially, Bible said in Genesis 2:19 "Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name." Adam gave them their names, and they came to Adam a couple of by a couple of. But Adam felt that he was alone. And God created Eve after He took one of the man's ribs. And Adam said "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called woman for she was taken out of man"(gen2:23).
Why did God create Eve likewise? Why did He take the process to make Eve? Why did he take one of man's ribs of all ways? What is His work about the process of creation on the sixth day?
Taking a class of Dr Hanna, I felt that he want Adam to know the works of God about the creation in the beginning. Adam should understand the origin of their existence. And he should know that it is existed that he (created being) could not understand any thing. And He should understand the creation of God and the works of God according to Eve and the rib. So by the process of the progenitor of the human race, we can understand the works of God as a Adam. We can believe the works of God about the cosmos like time-space creation, attribute and property of the Trinity, and so on.
God uses all kind of method to reveal himself to the corrupted human being. It became more difficult to understand God’s attributes after human’s fall. But God’s characters still remain in the creatures, and human’s consciences. Most of all, God revealed himself through the incarnated Jesus Christ. The Love which is shown on the cross teaches us who is God and how He loves and cares us. And it is wonder that how the trinity God communicate and cooperate one another for the redemption of man. Through God’s this work, I realized the how precious value of human being is, and what a privilege we have the works with Him.
About this verse which you throw out the creation of God; “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth” (Genesis 1:1), I agree the meaning that you scribed
And I am expressing additional opinion I think that Genesis chapter 1 have eschatological message. Because our God said in the Isaiah 46:10; "I make known the end from the begining, from ancient time..."
So, the creation of earth includes the meaning of recreation in his ending time of this history.
Even though He has this in his mind, the creation of earth symbolizes the paradise which is recreate by God.
So, though I live in the earth day and day, I hope for his second comming. Have a Good day!
Quigley Obrin Morris Paper #1 Text from class discussions Day #1 1Corinthians 13: 12 (last part) I know in part then I shall know fully even as I am fully known It is all about the master of language; yes it is Brother Paul again, some how I am getting a feel for his writing. To me it really brings out a passion in me; he is describing two different situations here in two different places and both relate to human and their relationship with God. He said “I know in part” this mean the physical body of man is capable to a boundary point. In fact the point is we are not able to do much with this sinful body that is locked in a sinful world. We are not able to understand or know the things that we want to know, or even understand the things that we want to understand. “Then I shall know fully” he Paul is looking beyond this life, and beyond the boundary point where sin have no control on our bodies. In fact that sin corrupted body will be no more as the bible says “we will be change”. Then we will be able to know the things that were once beyond our wildest thoughts. With this obstructions remove it is only then that we will be able to know and understand the things of God more fully. In the present of his redeemer his ability will increased and then the word fully comes in to play. The perfect transformation is completed and the once sinful man now goes beyond the boundaries of the sinful world and is able to know fully. And that is sinless quality that will be given only when the change is completed. “Even as I am fully known” this is a knowledge that is privilege to God alone today. To fully know someone is to be able to read his mind; and today’s sinful man does not possess the qualities of that magnitude. It is only Gods knowledge that is complete. To measure our knowledge is only to compare us to each other; and that alone cannot take you too far. And man knowledge will never be like God’s or come close to His. So Paul is saying I may not know every thing, but God knows me he knows now and he will know me when he comes again. I may not even understand who I am or who my neighbor is but the mighty God from his throne above knows us all. So the time is coming when His knowledge will be explained or I think it is better to say that Paul’s and our imperfect knowledge will be made complete by the only one who has always known us.
Quigley Morris The works of God I am thinking at class today I am deeply impressed with today class discussion; because it has given me the desire to ponder on the works of God. And where do humans fall in this brode and unknown spectrum; do we have a say? Are we capable to change things? Does God break his laws, are we really free and by the way what is this freedom thing all about?. I think we have a say in the works of God and we can even ask question, disagree and negotiate with God. He is so fair that He has given humans the privilege to talk to him; a position that our first parents enjoyed. When the Angels came to destroyed Sodom Lot did negotiate to save the City. This appears to me to be a God who love human and is willing to recognize all the intelligence he created them with. We are not capable of changing things, but we are capable of making changes to our future plans. What we are able to do affect us but not the laws of God. We cannot function outside of the Cosmos; every thing that is coming from outside is not available to the sinful touch of humans. But what we can do is to use it to our advantage, and foster a cooler relationship with our creator. In fact we must remember we are creatures and not the creator, so we are subjected to just the Cosmos. We are free but do not understand the scope of freedom. I would like to define freedom as the privilege to do what is Wright and the desire to standup against what is wrong. As creatures we are given the choice to do as we please; and at the same time is reminded of the future consequence of our action. That does not mean that we can do all that we want, because if we do we are likely to undermined the laws that are set to give us freedom. When one steps away from this guide and choose to do evil he has forfeited the privilege to freedom and set himself up to bondage But God does not break laws, when he performs a miracle to us it may be some thing new in the Cosmos. But to God it is not new; he has his way around the things that he has created. He does not have to break a law to do something outstanding. To us it may be great but to him it is just a simple matter of the use of words. To think that God break his laws is to limit the might power of God. He does not operate through this narrow channel of possibility. But create them as is required. The Centurion understand that more than any one did he said to Jesus you do not have to come to my home just say the word. In outer words he was saying use one of the out of the cosmos laws.
Quigley Morris The works of God I am thinking at class today I am deeply impressed with today class discussion; because it has given me the desire to ponder on the works of God. And where do humans fall in this brode and unknown spectrum; do we have a say? Are we capable to change things? Does God break his laws, are we really free and by the way what is this freedom thing all about?. I think we have a say in the works of God and we can even ask question, disagree and negotiate with God. He is so fair that He has given humans the privilege to talk to him; a position that our first parents enjoyed. When the Angels came to destroyed Sodom Lot did negotiate to save the City. This appears to me to be a God who love human and is willing to recognize all the intelligence he created them with. We are not capable of changing things, but we are capable of making changes to our future plans. What we are able to do affect us but not the laws of God. We cannot function outside of the Cosmos; every thing that is coming from outside is not available to the sinful touch of humans. But what we can do is to use it to our advantage, and foster a cooler relationship with our creator. In fact we must remember we are creatures and not the creator, so we are subjected to just the Cosmos. We are free but do not understand the scope of freedom. I would like to define freedom as the privilege to do what is Wright and the desire to standup against what is wrong. As creatures we are given the choice to do as we please; and at the same time is reminded of the future consequence of our action. That does not mean that we can do all that we want, because if we do we are likely to undermined the laws that are set to give us freedom. When one steps away from this guide and choose to do evil he has forfeited the privilege to freedom and set himself up to bondage But God does not break laws, when he performs a miracle to us it may be some thing new in the Cosmos. But to God it is not new; he has his way around the things that he has created. He does not have to break a law to do something outstanding. To us it may be great but to him it is just a simple matter of the use of words. To think that God break his laws is to limit the might power of God. He does not operate through this narrow channel of possibility. But create them as is required. The Centurion understand that more than any one did he said to Jesus you do not have to come to my home just say the word. In outer words he was saying use one of the out of the cosmos laws.
Fa’asoa Michael Fa’asoa July 14th, 2009 THST520 THE Works of GOD Act and Being: Hybrid Deity
“The God who transcends everything by virtue of his power. He is the substantive Cause and maker of being, subsistence, of existence, of substance, and of nature….He is the reality beneath time and the eternity behind being…He was not. He will not be. He did not come to be. He is not in the midst of becoming. He will not come to be. No. He is not. Rather, he is the essence of being for the things which have being.” Pseudo-Dionysius, the Divine Names, 817D, Luiheid, pg. 98. “So there is nothing absurd in rising up, as we do, from obscure images to the single Cause of everything, rising with eyes that see beyond the cosmos to contemplate all things, even the thing that are opposites, in a simple unity within the universal Cause.” Ibid. 821B, Luibheid, p. 100 I appreciate Gunton’s response to Pseudo-Dionysius’ possible Neoplatonic conceptions-quoted above, still interesting is the way in which he responds against the backdrop of Holistic Biblical thinking that Dr. Hanna has been illuminating for us to consider against exclusivity, and determinable thinking. I find this concept seemingly alluded to my Gunton in his statements which I find most intriguing; note: “The negative language appears to take with the left hand what is given with the right. But that is no problem for the writer and all who follow in his footsteps because of their rational confidence in the mind’s capacity to ascend whence being has descended.” Pg. 17 “That might be a harmless philosophical conceit were it not for the fact that it appears to have, as a matter of historical fact, excluded other things, more important things, indeed, that need to be said about the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, of the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Pg. 17 It seems to me that Gunton is perceptive in pointing out the challenges he has found within Greek Philosophy, specifically as it follows the Pseudo-Dionysius milieu and yet, I must query; having done so, can we possibly take Gunton’s position too far? What do I mean? I mean, Gunton says that “A properly Trinitarian understanding of otherness (is) only through his relation; who is known first as one who affirms the creation and only then as the creator who is distinct from the creation in order that the creation may be affirmed. But that is virtually impossible on the Dionysian account, whose movement of thought is away from this world to a timeless world beyond…” In class we discussed the idea of ULTIMATE REALITY where, outside of the Cosmos (Universe or GOD’s CREATION) GOD is. All we know of and about Him has-and is being revealed to us within the Cosmos, yet the possibility of a “timeless” world in which GOD is-isn’t necessarily improbable…or is it? I tend to agree with Dr. Hanna’s take on it, what of you?
Romans 11:2 "God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.” Foreknowledge in the Greek is “PROGINOSKO” a verb, meaning to know or ordain before hand and “PROGINOSIS” also a noun meaning foreknowledge or foreordination. It is common for words in any language to have two or more meanings, usually a primary meaning and then a secondary. Such is the case with PROGINOSIS. The primary is "foreknowledge" the secondary is "foreordination". How do we distinguish the difference? It is "foreordained" when Divine appointments and activity are in view, as in the above scriptures. Foreknowledge means to have knowledge of things to be. Foreknowledge is an attribute of God. Only God knows the future. And He does know the future. He wouldn't be God if He didn't, but the fact that He knows who is going to be saved, and who isn't going to be saved, does NOT determine who is going to be saved and who is going to be lost. Someone may ask, ''If God does know who is and who isn't going to be saved, how, then, can the sinner get out of it?" Foreknowledge, in Scripture, never determines what is to be - foreknowledge is only the knowledge of things to be beforehand. It is the same with our scientists, they can tell when there is to be an eclipse of the sun or of the moon: on a certain day at a certain hour, minute and second; but the scientists do not bring about the eclipse. God has foreknowledge, and by this foreknowledge knows the future, but that is where it ends. Of course God knows everything! He knows the very number of the hairs of our heads. He knows the number of the stars and called them by name. God knows everything, including the future. And, not only that, but God knows what would have happened if things had happened that didn't happen. He knows the results of all possibilities. The same is illustrated when David inquired of the Lord concerning his enemy. If he should go to one place, would the enemy be there? God said they would. So David went in another direction. Foreknowledge simply means to possess knowledge of things to be.
Fa’asoa Michael Fa’asoa July 14th, 2009 THST520 THE Works of GOD The Cosmic Christ of Scripture: Martin Fredrick Hanna Ph.D.
“Is there any new light in the old lamp? Yes! In fact the old lamp is always new and relevant. However, the bible is not a textbook containing all knowledge. Therefore, we should go to and fro between Scripture and Christ to increase knowledge of the light from God.” John 5:39-40 Cosmic Christ of Scripture pg. 39 I find it interesting that while from time to time the struggle with exclusivity still rears up within me; much more so is the desire to think wholistically. Even as I am reading Gunton, I see myself applying the principles of holism right from the perusal of the first page of Act and Being which I find humorous to some extent just because. I am thankful for these principles because of its’ vast relevancy to pre, modern, and post modernity thinking. In focus however is the statement above by Hanna; that we should go ‘to and fro’ between scripture and Christ to increase knowledge of the light from God and I agree. Too often I have been admittedly negligent of wholistic thinking even as I have attempted to minister to those outside of Adventism as well as outside of Christianity. Thank you Dr. Hanna for stretching my thoughts and ideas in and outside of class; and as a result, I am even now applying this concept in my family relations and is of tremendous help. To GOD be the glory, and to my professor some credit is rightfully due.
Professor Hanna's questions regarding foreknowledge seriously challenged my thinking. Is God's knowledge active and passive?
The question I would like to ask is: where does God get His information? Does God hold all knowledge within Himself? Is there knowledge that God experiences in order to understand? Is there information that God observes in order to understand?
My quick reaction is that God holds all knowledge within Himself, but there are possible problems within this thinking. God has a knowledge of good and evil, but God has never had experience of acting out evil. Evil does not exist within God. So can God truly understand evil if he has never experienced it? Whereas man has taken on a carnal nature and has the propensity (habitual tendency) to sin, God has never experienced this habitual tendency to sin. Christ was "tempted in all points like as we are yet without sin." Christ never sinned and therefore never really experienced the propensity to sin that we understand by the experience of sinning.
Can God understand evil from the sustainment and observation of a creation that participates in evil? Does complete knowledge require experiential knowledge? Is God's complete knowledge based on a multiplicity of informational avenues? Does God's complete knowledge have room for Divine discovery? Does God need to experience sin in order to understand it in it's entirety?
One of Dr. Hanna's points seriously challenged my thinking. If Adam and Eve were given the choice of good or evil; and unfallen humanity was created in God's image, then can God choose good or evil? If God does not have a choice to be either good or evil, God created beings in His image that have a greater ability (greater freedom) than He Himself has. Does God have self control? Do unfallen moral beings practice self control? Does God have the freedom to choose? This concept has seriously challenged my thinking.
My picture of God is broadening. As we study who God is though His works we will not end up with perfect solutions. We can begin to understand more fully the complexities surrounding Divinity yet we are only beginning a process that will never end throughout the ceaseless ages.
Roshelle Brenneise THST520 – The Works of God July 16, 2009
Reflection Paper #2
This week has been mind blowing. The concentration it has taken in attempting to understand the concepts of Foreknowledge and Predestination has left me with a mind full of goo at the end of everyday. Not that the information is not worthy of study and understanding. Its just that in unlearning one philosophy of Foreknowledge and Predestination (even though it is understood that that philosophy is Greek in origin) and replacing it with a new philosophy of Foreknowledge and Predestination (even though that philosophy is Biblically based) has been draining. I feel like I have to rush back to my room and put my earplugs in before everything leaks out. I have to add, however, that this has been good stuff. I love it when the struggle is intense because it makes the “A HA” moment all that more fantastic. While I love it, I also hate it. There is always a danger that we will become so “married” to our own “A HA” moment that it will become a point of doctrine rather than a point of on-going discussion. We can NEVER, this side of heaven anyway, fully understand what Foreknowledge and Predestination are and none of the philosophies can answer the question without creating a whole new set of questions that can’t be answered. So, this, as with many other unanswerable questions, I write down on my “lap question” list and wait patiently for my lap time with Jesus. I hope you all are patient because my list is getting longer by the day and I expect to spend several thousand years nestled on Jesus lap. It seems like a good week for “Huh?”. The two chapters in Act and Being were no easier to understand then the conversation in class and left me, for the most part, more confused then normal (and believe me it takes very little to confuse me).
JaeHyun Kwon, I am very happy to see new insights in the creation history that you came up with. I really am. The reflection that you made about God showing Adam His origin by creating Eve is very good. Maybe this can help us understand why God did not kill Satan right after sin…maybe He what us to understand better the process as it goes…but He does everything in wisdom and we do not need to ask why He did not the other way, for “all His ways are righteous”
I really enjoy your point about emphasizing the difference of God toward us. When we try to hard to explain things in our language we may fall in the danger of making God in our image. I know that we have to ask questions and try to understand God in our language, in our image and reality, but we have to recognize that are some questions that simply do not apply to God’s reality…it is the divine part of analogy…the problem is to identify where the analogy part stop…and until where we can do our brain strech...I think our God given ability to think can discern that with the help of the Spirit
Thomas Oyaro Ong'ou I agree with Roshell's comment about the philosophy of the foreknowdge and predestination of God as discussed in our class presentations. Only true philosophy can explain both the foreknowledge and predestination of God outside the box.The book of Job 28:28 says "behold the fear of the Lord is beginning of wisdom and to depart from evil is understanding." How can man who does not fear God and is evil by nature understand who God is? Knowing God is a mystery and we cannot fully understand him unless when we go to heaven and we will know him as He is. God's foreknowledge and predestination exceeds the limitations of man's wisdom and knowledge. Only the Bible can atleast explain a partly who God is.
After we have talked in class about some aspects of divinity that just bothered all of us, I arrived home and remembered the class of Job that I had in Brazil. When we read the book of Job we see the story of a man facing hard problems, loss of family members, money, and almost faith in God. In this scene we see the effort of friends to help Job get out of the problem.
In this context we see the friends of Job coming by and after one week (2:13) feeling the emotions of his friend Job during 7 days, they started to talk with him. And what is interesting is that they discuss about the topics that we are discussing in class, the works of God in the light of time. Questions like, “Why God did that”, or “How could this be”, are frequently in the conversation.
But what is very bothering is that in the end of the book of Job is the answer of God about the issues is a turning point in the book. He does not consider the “beautiful” lectures about Him made by the all of them (including Job), but reveal Himself to Job. The first question that God asks is “Who is this that darkeneth counsels by words without knowledge?” God is explicitly condemning all the words previously said by all of them (see also Job. 41:7). And by looking the speech of God, He just ask questions about “Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him::he that reproveth God let him answer it.”
After seeing these answers of God, is not He telling us that talking about Him without a higher purpose to help people, in vain? I see this because the bigger picture of Job is of the Great Controversy (Chp.2), that I think, like Ellen White, should be the major framework to understand the works of God. We see Satan questioning God about the faithfulness of Job and than asking the permission to make his point, that Job was not really faithful. So when Satan remove physical things from Job, than family members, than his wife telling him to curse God, all this are attempt of Satan to undermine the faith of Job. And in this context the friends of Job appear with all this lectures about God to undermine his faith also.
This did not help Job is his suffering, this is why God did not address in His speech about those issues of “Why He did that or not.” After God himself asked a lot of question to all of them, He simply “turned the captivity of Job” (42:10). This happen after he had asked pardon for himself and his, so called, friend (42:1-9). Because of the humility of Job to recognize he has nothing to ask God, and that he had just to give praise to Him in whatever circumstances.
I learn that I need to recognize that when I am in the process of knowing God I should become like Him instead of questioning Him the things I will never be able to understand, neither do I need to understand. What I need is to be humble and help other instead of doing “philosophy” about their problems instead of helping them. Happy Sabbath.
In our class this week, Dr. Hannah has thrown to us this question; Did Jesus break the natural law while He was doing teaching, healing and making miracles for people? ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ How can I answer? Some may answer ‘Yes’ Did really Jesus break the natural and moral law? According to moral law, ‘Yes’ would the right answer. All sinners must die. But Jesus told us; You ‘…should not perish but have eternal life. … the world through Him might be saved .’(John 3:16, 17) And even Jesus said to a woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. “Woman, Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”(John 8:11) and blind man, paralyzed and even leprosy were healed by Jesus without any medications or natural therapies. Didn’t Jesus break the natural and moral law? No, He didn’t. There was a higher law. Some laws usually subject to the higher law. We have discussed this in our class already. The airplane can fly against the law of gravity, and birds can fly. Because, they know how to use another law that is higher than the law of gravity. How did Jesus make those miracles and forgiveness for sinners? He knows another law? He has more powerful law? He has paid for the wonderful law of love. With His faith, hope and His love, He has accomplished the wonderful plan of salvation. Let’s give thanks to Jesus Let’s lift our praise on high and give glory to God
Does God practice self-control or is He totally spontaneous? Is self control only necessary for sinful beings?
The sun sets in just over two hours, and there are two significant things I want to accomplish before that happens. First, I want to finish my response for Dr. Hannah’s blog. There was so much good stuff that happened in class this week, I really want to talk about it, and also, we’re supposed to post things by Friday. So I’m really pushing it here. But I also want to, nay, need to, clean my kitchen. It’s the same thing every week. I am going to get things done early this week. I’ll do my post by Thursday and clean the house first thing in the morning. So I’m not worried or stressed out before Sabbath. The character traits I MOST admire in people is disciple and self-control, yet remain the most elusive to me. You know the kind of self-control I’m talking about? Like, people who don’t need to study the night before an exam because they’ve been studying all semester long. (Dr. Hanna, as you read this, please don’t change alter your opinion of me for the worse…) I’m sure there are some people like that even in our class…how do you do it? I look at people like that the way most people look at celebrities and athletes. “Wow…what is your secret? Can you sign my day planner please!?” All that to say, until Dr. Hanna posed some questions about God on Thursday, I hadn’t thought about God using/needing/having self control before. I’m not trying to make any kind of absolute point or interpretation here, this is more a general musing as I roll this around my mind. We know Jesus made time to spend with His Father, He’d go away to quiet places so He could stay connected to the Source. We know that after 40 days in the desert he didn’t let his appetite rule him to make the stones to bread. We know that he walked a lot. We know that he often ate at people’s houses but always made time to visit and talk. He wasn’t an eat and run kind of guy. Through all this, it somehow didn’t occur that maybe once, He wanted to take a second helping of the honey barley cakes cause they were so tasty, but said no because it would have been gluttony. He might have once wanted to sleep in an extra hour instead of going for his morning devotional walk, but He didn’t because nothing was more important to Him than time with his Father. The thing is, he would have had to use and develop self-control and self-discipline. Those are traits that are of God, traits that reflect him. So, when I strive to be more self disciplined and self controlled, I need to stop desiring it because I want it, but, I need to change my focus so that I desire it because I want to be more like Jesus. So if God uses self-control, and I am created in His image, then I to can both use it and develop it. It all comes down to making the top priority Him, and saying no to certain things becomes easy. It will become easier for me to get things done before Sabbath, so I can start it early and really enjoy the time I get to spend with the God I want to be more like.
I agree with Myong. It is illogical to think that Jesus broke laws of nature by walking on water or raising a dead person. We may not understand HOW He did it, but since He is the one who created the universe and made up the laws of nature it seems perfectly reasonable that he knows more about them than we do.
Massiel, loved what you said at the end of your thought. To become more like Jesus. So many times we focus on the outward stuff and think that if can't just get control of what we do all will be good. If we would just simply want to be like Jesus and do our part in becoming like him because we like what we see all the outside stuff would take care of itself. Great thoughts everyone. It has been fun reading all your comments as we each struggle with what we are learning in class.
I have an article posted by Massiel David,and i like the point she stated in the middle of her article that we need to update the way we present our adventist beliefs more particulary to the science world. it is true that the old presentation methods may not meet successfully the scientific world and even other religiosties.
I have read the article posted by Rodrigo and i appreciate the conclusion part of it where he stated that inorder to know God and His work it is paramount that we become like him-on the same i will also add that though we become like Him in this present which Paul calls evil,we cannot fully understgand Him and His works-it is ascience that will take us the endless period of eternity.
Fred Okemwa. THST 520 Works of God. Reflection paper 2. The on going debate on predestination is quite mind stretching. The question, does God make informed decisions? Is not really such a simple to give it” yes” or” no” answer. The yes answer may imply that for God to make informed decisions He must learn to obtain the information in order to be informed. If this is the case then God’s omniscience-the all knowing ability of God is brought to question. If God is all knowing does He need data to make informed decisions? On the other hand the” no” answer may imply that He does not-still there is a problem with this answer also due to the fact that God created man with the ability to make informed decisions. The argument will be if God can create a person who can be able to make informed decisions then He Himself must of the same. According to Dr.Hanna, he says that in predestination, the informed decisions of God are based on His foreknowledge, is it in predestination only? What about other orders of salvation? The question is really difficult to address. In the account given in the book of Genesis chapter 19 indicates temporal evidence that for God to make decisions He ought to investigate. The book of Daniel chapter seven, the books that are mentioned in verse nine may indicate the same thing also. Other questions that arise on my mind on the same issue include: if God makes informed decisions based on his foreknowledge, His is decisions an on going process or because He foreknew He fixed them right back at the beginning. While it is important to confess that these issues can burst out the brain it is also important to acknowledge that the class professor is doing the best to enable us to understand these issues.
Quigley Morris Class discussion: again I am thinking Predestination I am still wounded by the above term in its settled formed, and what appeared to be the correct explanation. To me there are areas that are not covered or it is betted to say I do not agree with its conclusion. Predestination should not be measure by my opinion or me cornered by my intelligence. While the word is simple but the definition creates all kinds of thoughts in my head. The Webster’s third new international dictionary says predestination is the theological doctrine that all events throughout eternity have been foreordained by divine decree or purpose. Now this is what I call a good face value explanation of a word. If I am to understand what the dictionary is saying it means that we are all posted to a spot regardless of Jesus’ influence in our lives. It is one thing to understand the knowledge imply here, and another the understanding of the character of God. It continued to explained that the foreordination by God of each individual’s ultimate destiny particularly to eternal life. I believe that God predestined all who he knew would accept his salvation to be conformed to the image of his son. And added to that in Eph 1:4 Paul said that God made provision that sinners should be holy and without blame before the creation of this world and the entrance of sin. This means to me that no one is predestine to be saved or lost. But Christ made provision for us to stand above the reproach of the enemy. There is some thing I want to say I just cannot put it out. I will get the words some time I know I will. Predestination to me is, I can be save if I want to; I must be save if I want to. Notice I did not say “if I have to” because this could be consider a negative in the present of the sacrifice that Christ have made. Because we cannot run away from the fact that there is a choice in the matter; and because there is a choice to be made then that will over ride the thought that some is predestinated to be saved. God’s desire is that all men would be saved and that he is not willing that any should perish. None are excluded from the benefits of salvation and he has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. So here is my deal on the subject; at the cross Christ died for humanity; at that point he defeated the devil and paid the price for man’s salvation. When that was completed man was given the choice of life or death. But the fact is life is available to all. We cannot pay the price it was paid for us so we are predestined because Christ did all that we had to do to get there. The fact is there is nothing I can do that is worth taking me there; and there is nothing I will do that can stop me from getting there. Because at the cross when Christ said it is finish; in these words He also meant that you are save.
When we talk about the knowledge of evil by the part of God, I think we have a misunderstanding of the concept of knowing. For me to know that to put the hand on the fire is bad because it will burn me, I don not need to put my hand on fire, but by just listening those who put, I trust and see that the information is trustworthy. But with God there was no one telling Him before sin happen that it was bad. So…I think that we can learn things by contrast, by know good we know evil. Satan fell in the problem of EXPERIENCING to know. I don think we need to experiment everything to know thinks. This is what atheist science do and they are wrong….
I don’t know from where it came the idea that in order to create something the Creator have to be like it. “The argument will be if God can create a person who can be able to make informed decisions then He Himself must of the same.” We can create a robot, or a Television but we don not need to be like it. God can create finite being be He does not need to be infinite. He created the ability to sin, and actually sin happened, but He Himself never sin. So it is better not to be so sure about ideas that the Bible do not say and that may come to a absurd conclusion…Another thing it is that the Bible does support the idea that God need to investigate like us to know thinks based on Daniel (and Revelation) and on Gn.19. God knew about the destruction of Sodom as God knows our fate in the judgment. He does not need to investigate books to know us (look Ps.139, Jr.1)
Dennis, I am not really sure if the concept of foreknowledge of God is so limited to affirm that He does not MAKES the future happen. The Bible presents that His foreknowledge is Active as Passive. In Daniel we see God raising kings and putting out Kings by His actions. So I think we need I more balanced and Bible based arguments… [19.jul]
Some valuable discussion has arisen from my proposal that: if God created us to be free and to make informed decisions, then God is free and makes informed decisions. As has been pointed out by some participants, there is a clear distinction between the Creator and the creation. The Creator is not created as is his creation. Also, the Creator is not finite as is his creation.
I agree with these comments wholeheartedly. At the same time, the finite creation does reflect the glory of the Creator. In addition, the Creator can and did become incarnate in the finite creation to reveal the truth about God in terms that can be understood within the creation. Where we are limited as creatures, God is unlimited as Creator.
We do not understand fully the things of God. But if, as God’s creation, we view ourselves as free; and if we view freedom as superior to lack of freedom; surely it is reasonable to view God as infinitely free because he has uncreated freedom. Similarly, if, we can make informed decisions which we view as superior to uninformed decisions; surely it is reasonable to view God as able to make informed decisions.
A further statement may be needed with regard to the delicate question of the ability of the Creator and created beings to freely choose between righteousness and sin. My proposal is that there is no righteousness or sin without freedom. God is not righteous because he lacks freedom. Rather, God always uses his freedom in righteous ways.
Ultimately, however, the question is not about what I think is reasonable, but about what has been revealed in Scripture. Has not God been revealed as omniscient/all knowing (1 Jn 3:20) and therefore as informed? Has not God revealed himself as having “a free spirit” (Ps 51:12). Does not the righteousness of God involve freedom from sin (Rom 6:18, 20, 22). Is not the law of freedom (Jms 1:25; 2:12) a transcript of God’s character?
Fa’asoa M. Fa’asoa 07.18.2009 In Response to: Roshelle and Massiel
Roshelle: “The concentration it has taken in attempting to understand the concepts of Foreknowledge and Predestination has left me with a mind full of goo at the end of everyday…” I just had to comment on your blog with this particular statement in it. Hilarious yet so true; I wasn’t sure just how to express, in words-how I was feeling after class this past week until I read your comment. I think I’m still whirling from its humorously almost satirical and somewhat seemingly burlesque connotations, though you may not have meant it at such.
Personally, its’ beginning to feel like trying to lick your way through a chocolate swirl peanut sprinkled covered waffle cone with an extra double layer of salivating succulent fudge surprise in its middle; the deeper we lick the better it gets.
Although when we do get there, the fudge is so (as we put it in our Hawaiian/Samoan tongue) ONOLICIOUS COW COW-one can’t help but experience-long after the cone is devoured, the cool salivating flavor of what’s left in one’s mouth.
The deep things of our CREATOR are INDEED Deep but I love it, every succulent and juicy aspect of it that we can discuss in class. I may not-admittedly- completely understand it; still, it creates within my bowels, as the old King James Bible would say, a deeper hunger and thirst for divine concepts beyond which my finite mind can but faintly comprehend.
Massiel: “Does God practice self-control or is He totally spontaneous? Is self control only necessary for sinful beings?”
After reading your blog on-well I’ve quoted it above-I found five key points that I’d like to chance and muse a thought on-not trying to interpret or solve anything particularly just simply musing. Here goes.
#1. “God practice self-control or is He totally spontaneous?” Reply: “With his own merits, Christ has bridged the gulf which sin had made, so that the ministering angels can hold communion with man. Christ connects fallen man in his weakness and helplessness with the Source of infinite power.” STEPS TO CHRIST pg. 20
I think it obvious that our CREATOR by sending His One and only precious and unique SON to reconnect us to HIMSELF is absolutely solid evidence of HIS Self control don’t you think? Otherwise, we would all vanish from the face of our planet.
#2. “The character traits I MOST admire in people is disciple and self-control, yet remain the most elusive to me.” Reply: I’m certain that there are many traits these same people see in you that they would like to trade for? LOL...There are many factors involved in the process that these people may have had to go through to develop these, perhaps some not so much, still they all have processes and so do you…be patient with yourself as GOD is.
#3. “people who don’t need to study the night before an exam because they’ve been studying all semester long.” Reply: I suppose that while this may be the case for the rare and far between, most of us come to academia with varying situations which calls for prioritizing what is most important, even above school at times. We aren’t all molded in the same pot so allowing one self some space may be a good thing in this regard…LOL
#4. “please don’t change alter your opinion of me for the worse…) I’m sure there are some people like that even in our class…” While I think I may understand the backdrop of your concern, worrying about what people think of who we are or what our flaws might be might possibly cause a myocardio infarction, a CORONARY THROMBOSIS or worse yet, a intracranial hemorrhage so chill…lol.
#5. “Jesus made time to spend with His Father, He’d go away to quiet places so He could stay connected to the Source.” Reply: In my humble opinion, I think that of all the thoughts you’ve mentioned, though they all their places, this by far is KEY to unlocking the storehouse of wisdom in what to do with all other situations (seemingly impossible) in our lives.
Fa’asoa M. Fa’asoa 07.18.2009 In Response to: Dr. Hanna’s Post
After reading so many of the recent posts on what was discussed in class, i.e. God’s Foreknowledge, Predestination etc. and the plethora of responses on the issue…a question came to me, and that is: Is it possible that perhaps one of the core issues amongst my classmates on these discussions has more to do with comprehension of the English language and it’s usage via our class focus than the actual issues themselves? Perhaps I’m missing the point as well, but from having observed various reflections from those who are not of the American Culture, by that I mean not born in the United States nor raised here or lived here long enough to understand the depth of the American English language to be able to properly explore their thoughts in and out of class and on your blog. If I’m off my rocker, please ignore this comment or even delete it. Meanwhile, thank you for clarifying your thoughts once again on the given issues, even though I personally felt that you did a fine job in class…which has still left my mind filled with GOO as one young lady put it.
As we discussed the whole Idea of how does God know something I found myself being mentally forced into an either or, situation. If we are to say that God must actively search out knowledge then we inadvertently suggest that for one he must have at one point had no knowledge, wither the present future or past. Like a child he had to learn to talk, walk and love. Every created being was an experiment to see what would happen since God would not know. At the same time If we say that God learned passively we fall into the dark side of the same coin. Saying that God had a divine version of Osmosis also leads to a God who needs creation in order to to have knowledge. Iam suggesting a third possibility, that God is the source of Knowledge. God has no need to learn or aquire knowledge since all that can be know flows from the Cosmos His creation. If God created all that can be known then all that can be known finds it's origin in God We established in class that when it comes to the future God knows both what's going to happen and possibility. If so then God already understands and knows the precise happenings that can and does occur. There's no need to get knowledge by force or osmosis
I really feel that the desire to understand God in terms of human ability can lead to rather limiting views of God. and I honestly feel this is one of those cases
Just a response to Ryan's comment about God knowing Evil. In reality what is evil? If you believe that Evil is an opposing force against good then yeah how can God know both good and evil intimately, however if you see evil as only revealed as a contrast dependent on it's opposition to God's goodness. To make myself clear it's like what many scientist are now saying about heat. That there's no such thing really as heat only increases or decreases of cold. Evil is only evil in Rebellion without Righteousness there would be no way to know what evil is.
THE RELATION OF WORDS AND GOD Response to FA’SOA (that was posted in 7.19.09) It is true Fa’soa that some more than others have struggle with words to express thoughts. Especially, if those thoughts are related to a being that is beyond language. This make us thinks about the relation between language and thought. Questions in this subject comes to my mind like, Can one language express thought better than other language? Questions like this have stir up many discussion in the field of linguistics and hermeneutics that I think is valid for us to understand revelation.
Isn’t interesting that John (or the Spirit if you want) chose WORD (logos) to describe God the Son? In Portuguese the word translated from logos is VERB. If I remember well the things I have read in the past (please if someone knows better please correct me) the logos in greek philosophy have the main idea of the active principle of the universe associated with the arche (the first thing, the beginning, the origin).
In the first verse of John, he set the two basic principles of greek cosmology, arche and logos. “In the beginning (arche) the Word (logos)”. John as a philosopher of Christ sees the relation between the primordial element of all (arche) with the reason of action and existence (logos). What is explicit tough in John cosmology is that both elements are the same in one being, Jesus Christ. And this union was not clear (at least if I remember right) in the greeks. But for John was clear in the creation, because this is the theme that binds all things together.
In Genesis 1:1 is presented “In the beginning (arche or bereshit) God created” all. It is clear in Christian thought from Paul and John that the Creator was Jesus (Col.1:15 and John 1:2,3). Jesus was the one who spoke and things were done (Ps.33:6-9). But how this relate with the concept of arche (beginning)? The key to the idea is found in Hebrew theology of Proverbs 8 in relation to the creation account. To the rabis, the beginning of all things, the origin of the universe was the Wisdom (or you can call the logos) of God. And this Wisdom is from the times of eternity with God “before the works of old” (v.22).
That logos is a concept that embraces knowledge, reason, action, verb, can be seen in the relation of it to the creation of things in Aristotle and stoic philosophy. In the Bible too. What John is saying is that the Wisdom of God who created all things (Pv.8:25-29), the beginning (bereshit) of creation, is Jesus Christ. And what is amazing in his cosmology is that this principle of created thing walked with him some years before. The principle of existence, the self-existent Creator became creation, had a started.
This is just mind blowing for the greeks to grasp. And for me too. God, the source of everything become one like me, creation. And this is the beauty of the Bible cosmology is that the principle of creation can be know by the created being in a simple way of a man. A carpenter son of Nazareth, who healed, taught, forgave, smiled and cry with the creation. If the logos or arche of the greek can not be known, I do not know. But the logos and arche of the Bible can be know for sure, independently of my limitations. Not only by logos (word or wisdom) but by action can I know my God.
Subject: Doctrine of God Salvation from wrath cannot be ignored as a non biblical concept of the way a loving and kind God operates. The wrath of God is not vindictive hence it should not be understood as human wrath that is both irrational and out of control. The imperfections associated with human wrath or even righteous indignation, cannot come to be understood as similar to the wrath of a loving, sinless and perfect God. Despite this fact God does get Angry. If we preach the wrath of God, we are sometimes accused of representing God as a Being of fitful passion and vindictive fury. In other words, we are accused of misrepresenting the character of God. The God of the Bible is not subject to sudden and irrational fits of anger. His wrath is His settled indignation against sin. It as ‘a burning zeal for the right coupled with a perfect hatred for everything that is evil’. God has made no attempt to conceal the fact of His wrath. He is not ashamed to make it known that vengeance and fury belong unto Him. His own challenge is, "See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no god with Me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal; neither is there any that can deliver out of My hand. For I lift up My hand to heaven, and say, I live forever, when I sharpen My glittering sword, and Mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to Mine enemies, and will reward them that hate Me" (Deut. 32:39-41). The wrath of God is as much a Divine perfection as is His faithfulness, power, or mercy. It is true that in the bible especially the psalms and some prophets portrayed God as calamity and disasters as direct results of sin but it is also evident that God gets angry and the salvation of sinful humanity is linked to the actual deliverance from God’s wrath. It is true to say though, that His wrath against evil will demonstrate His righteousness. Even in His wrath, God remembers mercy. God demonstrates His mercy in wrath by never pouring out His wrath without warning. He tried to warn Sodom and Gomorrah through Abraham. He warned Noah's world through the preaching of Noah for 120 years. He sent both Jonah and Nahum to warn the pagan city of Nineveh. The wrath of God is the judgment poured out on those who have rejected Jesus Christ and His righteousness. Some claim that there is no such thing as God's wrath others claim it is only futuristic and has never been experienced in history. 1Thess.1:10,clearly implies that Paul hoped in the Lord’s return. In the phrase “from the coming wrath” the word translated “from” means that Christians are kept from as well as taken out of it. Christians will be kept away from God’s wrath, and delivered safely through it, which amounts to their Salvation. God’s wrath is an active element in the Salvation of Sinners and this is essential to every believer. It resonates with me because I was able to clearly link the fact that God does get angry and we as erring human beings will have to fully understand the way God’s wrath operates to be able to adequately explain his love to those who are indifferent to the way God works in delivering us from sin. The wrath of God is really a comfort. There is a very important question after all of this that is; do we really want a God who has no wrath? So that all of these atrocities of Earth like the Holocaust and all the many injustices and man’s inhumanity to man, kind of slide by and are let off the hook? The wrath of God means that sin, abject evil, injustice, cruelty, all of these things will not be a part of eternity. They will be completely destroyed one day.
To be realistic, the issues of God’s foreknowledge and predestination which are among the orders of salvation as Paul suggests in Romans 8:29-30 have really given me a hell of time to understand what they really mean. The Monday lecture on the same issues and the link between faith, love and hope was really fascinating. Though deeper in understanding in the human analogical language, I acknowledge the lengthy explanatory lecture on the same by Dr. Hanna that has at least shed some light on how to understand the connection between the two terms in the light of God’s works. While the pathway is seemingly becoming clear, it is important for the scholars in the works of God class I inclusive to come up with the model of expressing these issues in ways that can penetrate the post modern mind
Roshelle Brenneise THST520 – The Works of God July 23, 2009
Reflection Paper #3
This week continued our discussion regarding Foreknowledge and Predestination. It is starting to sink in, but it has been difficult replacing the old information. I appreciated the addition of Faith, Hope, and Love in the FK, P, C, J, G model. For me, the idea that God has faith makes perfect sense. It is not so much that He has to have faith in order to give it as a gift to me, although that is reasonable, but that he has faith (confidence) that his plan of salvation is going to finally bring the end of sin, he has faith (confidence) in the sacrifice of Christ for the human race, and he has faith (confidence) that some will choose salvation rather than separation. I think the problem lies in the fact that we understand faith only from a perspective of sin and that we think of is as some ethereal force rather than an internal reality. The discussion of Monergy and Synergy this week has also been quite interesting. This one has not been so difficult for me to wrestle with and I feel that I have a pretty good handle on the concept. Bottom line is that we can do nothing apart from God. Every good impulse, every pure and noble act, is simply the working of the Holy Spirit and our response to that work. I take that Bible very seriously when it tells me that all my good deeds are like filthy rags. I am nothing apart from the Holy Spirits work in me. That gives me great faith (confidence) in God to know that I am nothing and I have nothing to offer Him, but He loves me so much that He gives me everything I need to be what He wants me to be. All I have to do is reach and take it.
Have you thought it that way before? The big problem that we as Adventist have is the partial understanding of the scriptures. The presentation today in class about the sanctification and the glorification was nice and ideal. I personally had thought of Abraham as a man might in faith for God to call him out of his homestead into the unknown land but it was clear today that his faith was not such great but the willingness to start and proceed on the journey was the factor behind that qualified him to be the father of the nations. It was interesting to note that sanctification is journey that will continue and that it will never get static at any point in life till the second coming when all those who have experienced the true sanctification shall enter into the final stage of salvation called glorification which shall stretch throughout eternity. I do appreciate the fact that today God will require more from us than in Abraham, why? Because we have received more than Abraham did. To whom much has been given much shall be expected from him. The latter rain point, usually it has been associated with the time of Jacob’s time of trouble when the true believers will be given more strength to go through the persecution period, but it was a good reminder that it has been falling throughout the salvation history. If you have not experienced it get out your umbrella. I appreciate these concepts.
Today's class discussion was great - fantastic!! An even not so close reading of scripture leaves you understanding that most of the Bible "heros" we so admire, were not so much "pillars of integrity" as they were willing to get up and start movin' down the road. It gives me great courage that God chose to use and work through indviduals with less then shiny characters - that means there is hope for me!!!! What an awesome reminder for the journey - just keep movin' down the road.....
There is a clear distinction between the Creator and the creation. The Creator is not created as is his creation. Also, the Creator is not finite as is his creation. The creator is the source of life for the creature. And He is active in sharing life in its fullness with His creatures. At the same time, the finite creation does reflect the glory of the Creator. In addition, the Creator can and did become incarnate in the finite creation to reveal the truth about God in terms that can be understood within the creation. The thinking of man ran parallel to the thinking of God. But there is always a difference: God was Creator, man creature. God is unlimited in his knowledge. Man is limited. God is omniscient. He grasps all things temporally and spatially in one all encompassing glances. Man learns successively, and labors at it in his narrow consciousness. God is omnipresent. He penetrates all things actively and essentially, while man cannot penetrate nature and comes into contact with the outside world only with his sensory organs. Yet man’s knowledge is a copy of God’s knowledge. It could never have happened that a result of human investigation, a conclusion or a judgment, would have contradicted God’s knowledge. Above all, the ethical principles according to which human thinking came to fruition were in complete harmony with God’s principles. God made man upright, says the Preacher (7:29). Two things illustrate how easily, certainly, and intuitively Adam’s knowledge came to fruition, without much of the cumbersome apparatus of observing, comparing, reflecting, abstracting, combining, perceiving, concluding, judging, etc. One, he gave the animals names expressing their innermost being in a certain sense on the spur of the moment. . And just as God wanted to bless his creatures, so also man was to enjoy a blessed inner satisfaction in tending the garden put under his care. Man was bound most closely to his Creator by this harmony. He could cultivate blessed communion with God. No chasm separated them. On the contrary, man had an understanding of God’s thoughts, could easily examine God’s ideas, and therefore felt happy in God’s presence. He took part in God’s blessedness. He was bound with God by exactly the same way of looking at things and by the closest sharing of interests. As our point of departure for viewing the image we can take the fact that the image is lost, but is renewed in Christians. What takes place in Christians as the new creation of the Holy Spirit belongs to the image. On the other hand, what characterizes the mindset of natural man is the opposite of the image.
I want to compliment Dr. Hanna for his use of Scripture and keen effort to be inclusive in his statements of truth. I find his lectures refreshing in comparison to Gunton's "Act and Being!" For that reason I've chose to comment on Hanna's recent lectures.
The concepts of monergy and synergy may be the theoretical framework many of us need to see "both sides" of many debates. Since we were talking about cheeese today let's take dies as an example. There are those who reject much of the dietery principles many Adventist practice on the grounds that diet will not save us. This is utterly and completely true. But, there are also those who have a rather strict approach to diet. They believe there is a correlation between what we eat and our minds, thus, our relationship with God as well. Many in both of the previous "camps" like to throw stones at the other. But if we recognize that the first camp (diet doesn't save us) falls more under the catagory of monergy and the second camp (what we eat affects our relationship with God) falls more under the catagory of synergy, maybe we would have less argueing and more embracing from both "sides!" The danger still lurks that we will emphasize monergy or synergy on any given topic, providing the conclusions suit us. Still, recognizing both these elements forces us to look at a bigger picture, like with diet. Personally, in class today the conversation seemed to me to be pointing fingers at those we deem as being "saved by diet." There may be those people out there. Are there not also those out there who are deaf to the possibility that God would have them change their diet? For the record, I ate some cheese this week. But I don't laugh at those who didn't. I believe they have something to offer me, to teach me about God. I hope this "vaguely vegan" has something to offer them to. I hope we all help each other be monergistically dependent and synergistically growing.
The presentation on reaching post moderns without compromising doctrine captured my attention. Typically, individuals who are trying to reach the postmodern compromise in order to stay "relevant." The other extreme is when the message is given in a stale package that is no longer relevant.
I believe that the Seventh-day Adventist message is very relevant to the postmodern. A Seventh-day Adventist lifestyle is actually cutting edge and hip. Healthy living, exercise outdoors, non combatant, philosophizing for ultimate truth / conspiracy theory, and relationship centered activities are all popular in the modern world. All we have to do is make our message relevant to a changing world. I think a great way to do this (as was advocated by the presenter) is to allow people to touch and see what Advetnistim is all about. Experience it, don't just talk about it. Experience Sabbath rest, experience healthy living, experience God centered worship, and experience the transformation from evil to good.
I have met very few Adventists who really practice what they preach. One such gentleman made a big impact on me. The guy was as conservative as they get, but he was super relevant. He had totally died to self. He was on a total God mission. We were walking in down town Sacramento when he disappeared across the street to talk to a hardcore gangster. All he did was exchange a few sincere words and hand the guy a steps to Christ. The look on the gangsters face totally changed and it was almost as if a new light came over him. I don't think the approach was the key; it was the Spirit filled individual.
The SDA message will go forth with power when we start living it (experiencing it). When we quit making excuses and give a total sacrifice people will see it. Many SDA's have a tendency to profess truth, but dabble with error on a daily basis. What would happen if we started living what we preached holding nothing back? When will we become that peculiar people in a good sense of the term?
Quigley Morris Paper #4 Works of God 07/27/09 All in all This phrase has been in class all summer, and it has caused me some great concern so I am trying to explain what I understand in light of this three words. It seems to me Paul enjoyed using them because they fulfilled a desired that he share throughout his writing. I believe that this is the energy working on the planet.on the behalf of God To explain what I am saying; every aspects of life is controlled by God. The movement of the ocean, the animals in the forest, the growth of every plant and the entire human race; we must understand that there is God the father, son, and Spirit working together to get planet in operation. Mean while the devil is just waiting to get a chance to do his bit too. But the God head work as one; what the Father does the Son and Spirit knows or I think it is best to say that they work together. We see that example in creation when God said let us make man in our own image. From this point of view we can say all in all means that the Father Son and Holy Spirit working all in one in us and for us. Paul has divided them to help us understand what he is saying; he said that the father is the originator and sustainer of all life. And he has provided for the effectual accomplishment of the work of the church. The Spirit now works with us now to guide and motivate us to achieve the goals that God has set for us. All the gifts that God has given us it is not to praise our selves but it is to do the work of God. The spirit will guide us on how we are supposes to use our gifts. When Jesus was leaving his disciples he told the disappointed men that I will send you another comforter to guide you in all things. And this was realized through the Holy Spirit. And he is still here with us to day. All in all means as the Holy Spirit is ministering to us the father is also ministering to us. In his work he is also reflecting the Son’s character, to me the first part here is as the Spirit works the working of the father and Son is also seen. While the son was here he too reflected the Glory of his father, it was not about Him, but the one who sent him. His work was to point men to his Hather, now the Spirit through the Son is pointing man to the Father and the Spirit is also pointing man to the Father. I am understanding the phrase all in all stands to point man to the work of the God head. All proceed from one God one Lord one Spirit that is from the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; and they are all in all.
THE RELATION OF WORDS AND GOD (Part II) The author of the book we have been reading (Act and being by Gunton) set a relation very interesting about action and knowledge of being. The actions of God is set in His word. The Scriptures register the acts of God in the past, so today we can “know” who God is.
The works of God is related in some Psalms as the reason of knowing Him and worshiping Him. The works of God is also taught by Asaph in Psalm 78 as reason to remind his nation of true adoration. In v.5 and v.7 he seems to refers to Dt.11:18 where God said to Israel to remember His commandments and works as a protection against false gods or idols. And during the rest of the Psalm the works of God from Egypt to David is remembered. Asaph think that by remembering God’s works people would keep His commandments (v.8).
In opposite to the true God, the idol is lifeless and cannot remember. This act of remembrance is worthy of notice, because it is related to a trend of subjects in the Bible. It is related to the Sabbath, as the sign of “Remember”. The minds of man should be directed to the acts of God in the past, especially the creation.
This is not only a Bible subject. In various parts of the world, religion relates remembrance to god’s illumination. The book Myth and Reality of Mircea Eliade is a great book about this, specially chapter 7. He says that to remember is important because remembrance of the origin brings life, and in contrast forgetting is death. Buddhism see remembrance, meditation, on past life is wisdom and enlightenment. And Buda is the unlighted one because he reached the all knowing stage of life.
On ancient Greece, amnesia is related to death also. This will influence the origin of greek philosophy, the search of the arche (see my last post about arche and John’s Gospel). But in Greek mythology, to forget is good, not bad, because men gets out of this world reality and goes into the ideal world. So Letes (the god of forgetfulness) abolish life and makes the action of forgetting necessary to go to eternal reality of ideal world.
But there were some philosopher in Greece who thought that remembering is something good. They were interested in history. What count is to remember the past until its origin. This sounds like the Bible! Plato tries to unify both of these concepts and says that humans need to remember the past to go to the ideal world.
All this concept of remembrance and forgetfulness is important because this will set a base to the kind of historiography we accept. If we believe that the acts of the past have no importance whatsoever with our acts now, we don’t need history. But if we see some aspect of redemption on history, we should consider it more. This is what God told Moses to teach the Israelites. “Remember my acts”.
The Holy Scriptures present God as the creator of this world. He created this world out of nothing (Gen 1:1). Nothing throughout the wide external of nature existed from eternity, originated by chance or from the skill of any inferior agent, but the whole universe was created by the creative power of God. “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” (Gen 1:1). Therefore humans are part of the works of God. The Lord declared this in the scripture: “And God said, let us make man in our own image after our own likeness” (Gen 1:26). Being created in the image of God presupposes that humanity possessed the communicable attribute of God. Man, the only creature of all God's creatures, has a spirit or God-consciousness, that is, a capacity for knowing God and holding spiritual communion with Him through prayer, praise, and worship. Before the fall, man had inborn moral awareness of good and evil, or conscience (Genesis chapter 2). Man was made not only negatively innocent (that is, without sin), but positively holy, otherwise Adam could not have had communion with God, who cannot look upon iniquity (Habakkuk 1:13). This is further confirmed by Genesis 1:31, when God affirms that everything He had made (including man) was 'very good', which would not have been true if man had been morally imperfect. God's social nature and intrinsic love is seen in the doctrine of the Trinity. God, who is love, created man with a social nature and a need for love. The statement in Genesis 3:8 that 'they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day' suggests that Adam and Eve initially enjoyed fellowship and communion with God, perhaps on a daily basis. God also provided for human fellowship and love in a very special and intimate way. But due to the fall, humanity could not hold free communion and fellowship with God. For this reason God had to act to restore that communion with humanity. Thus, a plan of salvation in which humanity would be restored into the image of God was promised to Adam and Eve (Gen 3:15).
Act & Being is a deep read. I'm especially interested in the authors assertion that we must acknowledge the trinity in order to obtain any real basis for knowing what God would have us know about Himself. For instance, in Revelation 1:1 it is declared, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave Him..." It is interesting to me that God gave Christ a revelation "of Christ." What does this mean? Here I admittedly enter the world of speculation, at least possibly. None-the-less, the statement implies that God the Father knows things God the Christ doesn't. We don't have much of an issue with this, at least not on the surface. Only God the Father knows the "day" of the return, for instance. But, do we not find ourselves pushed to another dellima to consider that God may know something about Christ that Christ doesn't know? Could the book of Revelation be revelatory for Christ, in some way, as well? Another interesting aspect of the trinity is Christ dependence on the Holy Spirit. He told his disciples it is for their benefit that He was leaving and would send the "Helper." This implies that the Holy Spirit would do something Christ would not do, either by limitation or choice. I believe it is dangerous to define too closely how and where the individuals of the Godhead are "limited" or, maybe I should say, "distinct." At the same time it may be dangerous not to a tleast acknowledge these possibilities to help explain some of the issues of foreknowledge. Could it be that each of the Godhead relates differently to this concept? I don't know for sure. These are only thoughts.
Roshelle Brenneise THST520 – The Works of God July 28, 2009
Reflection Paper #4
Thank you to all the “guest professors”. All the subjects were deep and thought provoking. I hope one day to read your finished works in a theological journal. I have no doubt that each one of you will be a blessing in whatever ways God chooses to use you. What a great class discussion today!!! As a younger person, I was dissatisfied with the projected view of a harsh God and so when the “grace, grace, grace” movement started it looked pretty inviting. Two events changed that for me. As I mentioned in class, my friend and I listed each argument and presented them before God with an attitude of “we don’t care one way or the other, we just want to know YOUR truth regarding these arguments”. With speed that boggled our minds, each one of the 10 arguments was laid in the dust. The second, and equally profound, event was when I read Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s Cost of Discipleship. When I read his definitions of cheap grace and costly grace I was forever changed. That book, probably more then any other (except the Bible) has shaped me and provided a foundation for every subsequent belief. Thank you Dr. Hanna for your even-handedness and your dedication to the holistic view of the Bible and your equally passionate entreaty to us to view the Bible holistically. I have been witness to the incredible damage the one sided view can have on people and congregations, so I encourage you all to remember “and/both” and teach your congregations “and/both”, so that we can all begin to see the deeper and wider things of God. I suspect that the either/or approach has severely limited our capacity to understand the things that God has revealed to us about Himself. Peace to you all and I hope you enjoy your Seminary experience as much as I have enjoyed mine. I am a better person and I am blessed beyond measure because of my experience here.
The discussion on Adventist dispensationalism was of great interest to me on a very personal level. I know it was only at the end of our discussion last week but I believe our church is really suffering with this ideology. We teach that the one of the works of the last day church is prophecy and we expect prophets to be among us. However when we teach the topic were quick to say that EGW is the spirit of prophecy that was to be initiated in the last day church. I even heard one person say that we don't need any other prophets we have enough in EGW. That same person though may say that in the last days, in the latter rain our sons and daughters will prophecy as if the gift only manifests itself fully in the end events. But what are we doing between that time between the time of the latter rain and the former rain, what should we be doing? what was the effect of the former rain? I am beginning to wonder if as SDA's we sit and wait for this latter rain when the soul is not prepared for it, which is what bothers me most about this Adventist dispensationalism it actually sets up a system of failure. If we don't receive the Holy Spirit between the special manifestations of the Holy Spirit how can we receive Him in the coming time. That short discussion this past week really put some questions on my plate and thoughts for preaching in my pulpit.
Even though I am so late, I am writing about one topic, being thought importantly, because this topic is concerned about the destiny of human life. God created the blessing with Adam & Eve on the sixth day of the beginning. It is the fact that Sabbath is the day of blessing, but Our God blessed Adam & Eve earlier than Sabbath. So I am briefing as follow. Even though the period of original history (Genesis chapter1-11) is just eleven chapters, this period is corresponding to 1/3 of six thousands of human history. The human history which was begun by blessing has been experiencing many alterations by sin. The serpent and the ground was cursed by incoming of sin (Gen3:14, 17), they experienced the curse according to Cain (Gen 4:11), the curse plunders various abundance and happiness from the human. The earth was filled with the righteousness of God and blessing of God when he finished the creation, but it “was full do violence” (Gen6: 11) because of curse. God nevertheless did not destroy humankind, so that prepared the remnant and gave the blessing continually (Gen7: 23). Why dose God catch at the blessing instead of the curse in history of evil which has been repeated continuously? The reason is because it is the Work of God.
From the beginning of creation to the creation of Eve, the Word which comes out again and again is “And God said”(Gen1:3,6,9,11,14,20,24,26,29; 2:18). The bible tells us “And God said… it was good.” (Gen1:1, 2, 18, 21, 25), but it tells us “The Lord God said… It is not good” (Gen2:18). God said for the first time “it was very good”(Gen1:31)when He finishes the creation of Eve by man’s ribs. “God blessed them” (Gen1: 28) when he created Eve at the last time. Of course, it is true that he blessed every living and moving in the Genesis 1: 22,
but “A difference exists between the introductions to the blessings of vs. 22 and 28 that are worth noticing. The blessing for the animals was pronounced regarding them, “God blessed them, saying,” whereas the blessing for the human race was expressed “unto them.” As intelligent beings they were able to listen to God and to receive.(reference by SDABC )
God created the blessing when He made Adam and Eve. If God had not created them in the beginning, the blessing of their aspect could have not existed. The work of God about blessing begins with the creation. So the creative work of God should continue from generation to generation when they turn over the blessing to their offspring by action of it. And the blessing is one of The Works of God to communicate between God and mankind.
I will write the blessing & curse in connection with Dr. Hanna’s lecture next time. Have a Good day From Jae Hyun Kwon
Herbert says: The beauty about the works of God is that even though we in our finiteness have a lot of questions and tend to blame God for certain results of our sinfulness we know that all His acts are centered in love. Good spirited discussions all.
Describe how your perspective on the works of God has changed or developed during your study this summer.
The class works of God was for me very good. Some issues of communication (God’s act) of heaven is one topic that I like to study. I have learned that communication is all about transformation. “By beholding we become changed” (Patriarch and Prophets 91, Christ Object lessons 355) To behold is to learn, interact, receive and give, to eat and become part of you – this is communication. (Iconofagia,BAITELO). In this way of thinking the content become the channel and the channel the message. Unifying this information that I had with the works of God class was great. From this perspective of communication as being a work of someone influencing another being I see God’s interaction and works within the cosmos as being the perfect channel and message at the same time. God’s works is all about revelation. What the classes taught me and the book (Act and being) is that in God as with us, actions and being is inseparable. Now I understand better why God did not told prophet to write formulas in the Bible. Did you realize that the Bible is basically stories…This now I understand, one of the reasons maybe that to know God is to see His actions (like dr.Hanna put beautifully in the Exodus story analogy of “watch and see who I am”). His creative acts causes creative beings. For it is a perfect consequence of His being, His actions. And since God’s actions of creation and salvation are so broad, and not specific, from this class on I will try to think in a bigger “box” God’s ways of doing things. I will try to think in a more creative way. Thinking holistically, as our teacher emphasized so much and well this summer term, is our challenge. Because if I want to understand God, I have to act like Him. For to know more of His being I need to act like this Being. I need to behold more, so I can be changed more into Christ likeness. And this is brain stretch because the God of the Bible is big. And even tough I will not have all of Him never, I will always grow with Him, because He is infinite creative. And this is what life is. Finite offer of Satan give me finite enjoyment and growth, because Satan is not so creative. But infinite God gives me infinite possibilities to enjoy and grow.
What have you learned about the interpretation of biblical language concerning the works of God? In what ways is biblical language itself a work of God? Bible interpretation has been to me one of the most fascinating study. I graduate in communication also, and from the knowledge I received studying ways and effect of communication, and as more I study the Bible, I get really impressed of the capacity of God. When I say impressed, it is not that I believe that He can not do everything, but as more I know Him more I feel reverence for His perfect ways, like what David expressed in Psalm 19. One thing that fascinates me is, the simplicity and complexity in God’s action of communication. To speak with fallen human being is a great work of God. And He speaks in a variety of ways (Heb.1:1-3). He reach every kind of person with His variety of speeches. He manifest Himself in nature, He manifest Himself in miracles; He appears and speak to some; in dream and visions to other; He makes prophets write in different styles like prose, poem, music, prophecy; all to get our attention and to communicate with us. But as if all that was not sufficient He comes and become like us. He enter in our environment. This is perfect communication, to enter in someone world and life like them. Even tough He is infinite, He spoke our language. And what is the most wonderful for me, is when He makes all this travel from heaven unlimited to our finite cosmos, He come to teach – be humble and serve. His life, his parable, His death and resurrection language taught me (Jo.13:12-30;Phil.2:1-5;Heb.5:4-8) humbleness. Ellen White put so well in the Desire of Ages (chapter 1), the message of heaven is unselfish love, and Satan’s message is selfishness. This helped me to understand that humbleness is to recognize that I do not know what I think I know, and that my work should be first for the benefit of others rather than for my own pleasure. And even the principle of analogy teachs me this principle. God’s ways are to higher and His works of God transcends reality. And one way I see this theme of analogical language is that one major difference of our thinking and God’s thinking is that sin goes against God’s language of humbleness and service. So sinner can not understand the language of God (EGW – comment on that on the Desire of Ages chapter 1). It is true that human language fall short of God’s language, but even perfect being fall short of God’s language because infinite can not be contained in infinite minds. But the paradox in the Bible is that God’s message can be grasped and enter our finite minds. Even tough love is infinite (ICor.13:8), and God is love (IJo.4:8) we can love and know God (IJo.4:7). This is also a work of God, have to be, for it is impossible for even perfect being to be infinite and act like infinite beings. But God through His Spirit give us the ability of love. And love is the language of heaven. This language is shown in our actions (God’s action in us – synergy) toward other, in service of love and self-sacrifice actions. This is what John teaches in IJo.4 and Ellen White in Desire of Ages chapter 1. So to finish up my answer, God’s language of love is to high for creatures to understand, but through His Spirit (I Cor 2) He make us able to live like Him and grasp His message. For communication is all about transformation. And love is simple and complex. This is the beauty of God’s work in me.
Fred okemwa. THST 520 Works of God. Final exam. 7/29/2009.
Q.A.Describe how your perspective on the works of God has changed or progressed this summer? I wish to start in answering this question by saying that we cannot understand the works of God unless he reveals them to us. By this I mean that in away the works of God are similar to our works and dissimilar in some ways. For instance God is the creator and we are the creatures, in the book of Isaiah 64:8 he is the potter we are the clay. In the book of Isaiah 55:8-9 he says his thought and ways are not our thoughts and ways as the heavens are far from the earth so are his ways and thoughts. In 1st Thessalonians 2:13, we see that there is a similarity between our works and God’s works. A according to Gunton, he says that the works of God can be best understood from the perspective of Trinitarian approach. By that I mean that the three members of the Godhead are involved. For instance, in the incarnation, john 1:14 God the son is mentioned whereas in the book of Luke 1:35 both the father and the spirit are mentioned in the entire process of incarnation. In the Illumination of the churches, ephesians 1:15-22 the father son and the spirit are mentioned in the process. in the salvation, Romans 1:16-17 the father and the son are mentioned while in the book of 1st thessalonians5:13 the spirit is mentioned as the sanctification agent. In inspiration as well as creation we see the entire three active in doing the work. I also understood God’s work to be primordial and eschatological. Primordial means the works of God which we cannot contribute anything to it for instance his foreknowledge and predestination. Eschatological means the works of God at the end of time. In a sense I also progressed in understanding that God works monergistically and synergistically. By that I mean that monergy is the aspect of God working alone and synergy is the aspect of God working together with the cosmos and when he does so there is a distinction between what God does and what the cosmos does through the power given to it by God.
B.Mention some relevant bible texts show how your understanding of this text has progressed? The texts that in particular I have progressed to understand is Romans 8:28-30 which talks about foreknowledge, predestination, calling, justification and glorification. The term predestination as used here, sincerely speaking I could not understand it till it was explained from the freedom approach perspective. Now I can say that I believe in predestination. I also have progressed in understanding by connecting the text in Galatians 5:6-8 which mentions about faith, love and hope with Romans 8:28-30. While love remains the central governor of both foreknowledge, predestination, calling, justification and glorification, it is easy to link justification with faith Romans 5:1-2, Grolification with hope Romans 5:2, calling with love Romans 8:28, foreknowledge with faith and predestination with hope. This linking was fascinating and it helped me a lot in understanding this order of salvation and the work of God as well.
In response to Rodrigo, You're so fast! already done your final exam..., As I read yours, this sentense strikes me; "you sinner can not understand the language of God" It is really true. We are blind and deaf absolutely. Sin makes us blind unable to hear. Sin covers every spiritual blessing, even distorted God's pure message. So this exam is the most difficult one, isn't it? ^^ But By the grace of God. We can do it.
In response to Fred okemwa I am very please your comment which seems like to me was summerized the lectures briefly. To me English is the 2nd language, so I missed a lot. but you helped me to arrange the thoughts. Just the same way where we don't understand God's language. My Korean fellows and I need the works of God in listening, understanding and even reading books, specially it was really difficult book 'Act and Being' But as we spent time with Dr. Hanna and prayer from friends, we now are much better even if it was only a short session. We are the one who have experienced the most of God's work. Thanks again and God bless.
Mention some relevant Bible texts and show how your understanding of these texts has progressed.
The text of Romans 8 was for me very relevant. I believed that God knew everything before, that we had freedom, because the Bible teaches that, but the way was taught in class made it more clear for me. I now understand more how the foreknowledge of God works for the good of those who are called. In the past I really did not struggled much with this passage, and maybe this is why I did not stop to think all the implications of foreknowledge related to the plan of salvation. The relation of calling, predestination and foreknowledge is still a hard thought for me. But after the lectures of works of God, I could think more about it. The point that is for me wonderful is that God knows us. (v.29). In Psalm 139, my favorite Psalm, David understand that the foreknowledge of God is a security against evil. Because “all things work together for good to Him that love the Lord”. And no matter depth, hell, heaven angels, the Love action of God always works in our behalf. The relation of Psalm 139 and Rom.8 is incredible. And I did not realize that until today when I was reflecting on it. Both passages talk about God knowing, God protecting, God’s infinite action unfathomable, the inability of man to hide from God, and other points. The attributes of God in creation and salvation makes man wonder how great God is. And the conclusion of both is nothing compares to loving actions of God. What I learned from this class is that my view of God have been to narrow. That perspective of the cosmos and God above, I had before, but the class reminded me to realize how great is the God of the Bible. And that humans can not fully grasp Him. This is why the Spirit intercedes for us, for we do not know what to ask God (v.26). The relation of faith, hope and love with foreknowledge, predestination and calling made it more simple and great for me to understand it. I never thought about the relation of foreknowing with having faith in. This notion of the God of the Bible makes more sense to me now, and still the relation of hope to those who are predestined. Predestination is for those who wait, hope in the future, not in the things visible, but invisible as God. This unity is incredible and how this contrast with the teachings of other Christian churches. They emphasize the right now, the immediate in contacting with God. And God is the God of hope. And they way He acts shows the way He is. This goes with I mention on the other 2 questions.
Understanding the works of God is no trivial matter. Achieving a more comprehensive knowledge of God’s work is possible, but full knowledge is not possible. What we can understand about God is revealed in the Cosmos. God is above the cosmos and therefore can not be understood fully within the cosmos. In order to understand God one must use analogical language - language used to express similarities and differences. On one hand God uses human language to express His works; “O Lord, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we are the work of thy hand” (Isa 64:8), on the other hand God is above human knowledge; “My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways... For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways... And my thoughts higher than your thoughts” (Isa 55: 8, 9). In order to speak of the works of God one must recognize similarities and differences, comprehendible knowledge and transcendent knowledge.
When contemplating the works of God, a trinitarian viewpoint must be contemplated. Each member of the Trinity is active in the working of the Divine unit. Father, Son, and Spirit each uniquely and equally contribute.
Another aspect of God’s work is the way in which God works individually and in cooperation with His creation. On one hand, God works monergisticly (God working by Himself). On the other hand synergistically (working together with His creation). To often individuals try to understand God exclusively through monergy or synergy. In order to come to a greater understanding of God one must think in terms of both monergy and synergy. God works completely “all in all” (1 Cor 12:6), yet “all things work together for good to those who love the Lord” (Rom 8:28). There is a sense in which God works totally and completely in Himself and a sense in which God works together with His creation. A Biblical understanding of God’s work is both monergistic and synergistic. The monergy of God’s work makes the synergy of our work with God possible, yet both exist.
The concept of monergy and synergy is readily evident in the process of salvation. Salvation is completely bound up in God’s work (monergy), yet we take part in God’s plan of salvation (synergy) as workers together with Him to the restoration and salvation of humanity. This concept of God’s work vs. human work in the salvation process has remained a stumbling block in Christian theology. Perspectives surrounding salvation have tended toward exclusivity. Salvation is either seen as wholly God’s work or man’s work. A more Biblical understanding of the salvation process recognizes how God’s work is completely God’s work, yet we are workers together with God in salvation. As we work together with God in the process of salvation we will come to a greater understanding of who God is and His work. God does 100% of the work, yet he requires that we must be workers together with Him. We must work together with God rather than rebel against Him.
In 1 Thes 2:13 Paul relates “when you received the word of God which you heard of us, you received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God.” In this verse there is an interesting conundrum. The word of God is assimilated to the actions of the preacher. The words were not merely the words of men, but the word of God Himself. Understanding God’s word is distinctly complex. God’s “word” is found in the incarnation, special revelation, general revelation, and illumination within His church. The true Word, Jesus Christ, revealed truth through the incarnation. God also inspires individuals such as Paul with special revelation, a distinct word from the Lord through the mouth of his spokesperson. God’s word can also be seen in creation as His signature reveals itself in each created thing. Finally, God’s word is evident in His church. As the church is illuminated with the Holy Spirit it is able to exemplify and speak the truths of God’s word.
The discussions surrounding foreknowledge and predestination especially peaked my interest this term. While these topics were discussed within a bigger framework of the order of salvation (foreknowledge, predestination, calling, justification, glory), foreknowledge and predestination were emphasized because of many misconceptions surrounding the term. The concept of “predestined to freedom” taken from Romans 8 seemed simplistic at first, but as the semester progressed I began to gain a greater understanding of what “predestined to freedom” really meant. God has predestined that we would have the free choice to choose either good or evil. We can choose to work together with Him or rebel against Him. We have freedom to choose. God desires that we would choose the path toward good, but we also can choose the path toward evil. If we choose the path toward good we are destined to glory. IF we choose the path toward evil we are destined to death. Predestination is not determinism, but rather freedom. We are predestined to the freedom to choose.
Foreknowledge is distinctly more difficult. To define God’s foreknowledge is an impossibility. We can speculate, but ultimately, God’s foreknowledge will be our study throughout the ceaseless ages. One concept that has challenged my thinking is God and the possibility of discovery. I have always had a picture of a all knowing God that can not gain further information. As I considered my concept of this all knowing God, I realized that this is not a adequate way to think about God. Yes, God is all knowing, but does God experience things that give deeper meaning? Did Jesus Christ experience sin on the cross in a way that God had never experienced sin before? Did God understand sin/evil in a fuller way as a result of His experience on the cross?
Another concept closely related to foreknowledge is the question - does God live in time? I have often heard it said that God does not live in time or that He is above time. I am coming to the conclusion that God does live in some sort of “time” what ever that term means to and infinite God. If God created this world in “time” and since God created this world as a reflection of Himself, then time is a real aspect that God experiences in some way. I am concluding that God both knows everything and can discover (whatever that means).
Another concept brought up in class was the possibility that God has a free choice to choose good or evil. The example brought up in class was when God gave Adam and Eve the ability to choose either good or evil. If Adam and Eve had an ability that God Himself did not have, then they were superior to God in some sense. God never will choose evil, but he has the freewill to do so. God has chosen good, and to live apart from God in evil is death.
As we discuss difficult topics surrounding the works of God, we must do so with a sense of humility. We must be humble enough to say that we don’t know everything and revise our understanding if need be.
Why not work with God because He is who He is and not because of the reward?
Too often I think that Christians / Seventh-day Adventists live a self centered Christian experience. Why do we do what we do? Because we get something in return. Would we still be Christians if there was no hope of glory? Would we die with no hope of eternal life in order that others might live? Maybe Erasmus got something right when he focused less on doctrine and more on practical Christian living.
Would we do what we do if there was no hope of glory? Would we uphold the diets we have? Would we do evangelism? Would we be kind? Would we seek for repentance?
If we are truly children of the King, if we truly are partakers in a great controversy, if we truly believe there is a God in heaven actively engaged in our lives, how then shall we live? Shouldn't this be motivation enough to serve God to our fullest? The problem is that we place ourselves above God. We live our lives how we want to live them while attempting to give God a little slice of our time in order to qualify for eternal life. Why not give God everything? We often serve the works of our own hand rather than recognizing the works of God.
What if we lived in a generation that quit debating and started living out what we believe? What if 16,000,000 individuals reflected Jesus in 2009? What if we served God fully, holding nothing back? What if we had faith that God really knew what He was talking about when He gave us advice about diet, dress, worship, finances?
Quigley Obrian Morris Works of God 07/30/09 Final exam paper #1 I must say this class has been a blessing; I am now starting to understand a little about God. I was brought up in a SDA home so I was borne in the church, over the years the church’s doctrines were all stamp on my mind and written in my heart. To me I had a clear knowledge as to who God is and how he worked. But after this class I am beginning to see God in a brighter light as a more loving and caring God in s way that I have never being able too. I have always told people when I preach do not try to understand God but try to trust and believe in him. I now understand that I did not fully understand what I was saying during this years, to me this class has take my faith and my understanding of God to another level in believing and trusting him. But amidst this knowledge pack class, how do I break down this payload of information to people who refuse to read or even study their Sabbath school lesson. I have come to a realizing fact that my battle has just began and the best part I think I am getting ready for it. Romans 8:28 stands out in my mind for many reason, many years ago I was about eight years old and our family had a disappointment and my parents called us together (12 children I am the seventh) and my father quoted that text “all things work together for good to them that love God” then he prayed and we all were cool about it. A few days later I forget to take my goat in for the night, and that night it rained heavily; the next morning when I was questioned by my mother you will not believe what my answer was; “mum all things work together for good” well I did not have the chance to finish the text before I felt a deep pain in my back and a sound that reminded me that I was being stupid. From then on I have kept this text in mind and did better exegesis of its content. But to me in this class I understand what is “all things” to me now it is the situation before I was borne and the culture that brought me up, my understand of that culture, my development as an individual, my understand of God, my present state of mind, my connection with God and tomorrow; the place I have not been, and knows nothing about its pain, time, frustration or joy if there is any. But God who has been there who understand, makes and control tomorrow can effect changes, and influence behaviors for my profitability. He will “work together for good”, now and I mean only after this class I am now understanding that working together does not mean I can make a contribution on my behalf. It is God working With whom I am; and who he wants me to be. I may want to buy a car and I am thinking of taking a loan so I pray about it and put God in control, I have seen the car and I have made my choice. But God have seen that this car is too costly and it is going to give some problem so he
Quigley Obrin Morris exam paper #2 sets up the plan for me to get a better car at a cheaper cost. God has not worked with me; all my plans of getting the right car are thrown away. Then he takes the plan and gives me the car that is best for me. The truth is I have a couple of degrees and have been referred to as a good thinker but before this class I could not have stretch my mind to this magnitude. This class has made me all over and I have been giving thought to many things that was thought to be simple about God. But now I can see a bigger God whose work is beyond my thoughts. This class has help me to worship with more respect and to believe that when I pray he is more than able to do for me more than what I can ask for. The bible language does not do justice to the works of God. In John 15:4 Jesus said “abide in me” the word abide it is being used 131 times in the bible. But what does it mean, it means rest, stability, confidence, but if the word is taken in its sense we will say it means to be with Jesus. The bible writers were confined to their culture, education, experience, reason, logics, attitude and knowledge of God. All of this is the condition of the sinful man. From this unfortunate position how can a man speak of the qualities of God in his righteousness? John was given a little view and he explained in words that did not take us beyond the human spectrum; well that was his encomium. He said a “sea that look like glass” now tell me what impression does that give to you, more time will be spent in trying to bring the two words together, than understanding the depth of its content. Because of thought inspiration we are terribly limited in our understanding of God through our biblical language, but God is in the business of bringing out the best from our efforts. Revelation 3 : 20 says “Behold, I stand at the door, and knock”: but the Greek says I have been knocking; I have been calling; here is a vast different in language explanation. The English translation is saying the action is now; the Greek is saying the action started before we were borne and it is going on now; and it will be there until the end. So language has its mark; and it’s our main link of communication to God and he is able to reaches us through our language. Language is a work of God; he has channeled his will to us through language, every spoken word points to the working of a God who loves us. More than any form of evangelism, language have been use to reach the heart of man and women from Adam’s time. We are the only creature who is able to communicate through the use of words. It is God’s work through which he can touch our hearts and recreate every fiber in our being. It’s our only channel to pour out our wounded hearts at the feet of the cross. It is in language the sinner can seek forgiveness and advocated a fresh relationship with his maker. Mrs. White said “pray dose not bring God down to us but bring us up to Him”(step to Christ 93) Language truly a fascinating work of God
In response to quigley Thank you for your interesting story and comment. I like this class because the learning has not been ceasing yet, even now after the regular class finished. Quigley! you should have learned 2nd or 3rd language. Through that experience we also can understand the language is a fascinating work of God. I would say specifically through the process of interpretation from one lanaguage into the other in my mind, I often feel the exciting works of God. Ultimately my language tells me what does it mean to me. but It is impossible for us to grasp and realize something new from other languages without the Holy Spirit. It is truely His work.
1. Conviction – Confession ( Forgiveness) 2. Conversion – Repentance 3. Consecration - Obedience 4. Confirmation and sealing by the Holy Spirit - Endurance and perseverance They are the works of God in our mind everyday Which word is the most favorite one for us? And which one is the least favorite? I think it depends on what the situations are. But the fourth of second words would be the least. As I look at these words and think, I found an interesting thing that there is an order as Dr. Hanna presented. I think the word ‘Conviction and Confession’ is the one that we experience the most. And the last ‘Confirmation and Endurance’ is the least. Through the God’s synergy working of conviction is us starts very often, but we used to fail to response with confession. And we…, not we(I’m not sure others) but I scarcely reach the obedience. Rare times we reached to the 3rd, but immediately went back to the first step where we should confess and need forgiveness again for the arrogance. “What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue from me this body of death?”(Rom. 7:24)
Omar Nunez Works of God: Take Home Final Exam Page 1 Dr. Martin Hanna 7/30/09
My experience in the Works of God class this summer with Dr. Martin Hanna has challenged me and helped me develop more of my theological perspective on many different levels. When dealing with understanding God’s works there’s always two sides to the coin and when we deal with people there’s two sides as well. Thus this class has helped me develop working to understand people’s opinions and how God works. I didn’t know what to expect from a class called the Works of God. I simply thought that this couldn’t be a difficult class because it sounds easy to understand the Works of God. However, this was not just another simple class because my first week’s impression of the class was awfully confusing. I wasn’t sure why the subjects had a philosophical twist to understanding the works of God. My first impression was tainted by Greek thinking combined with Theological principles. However, after the first week of reading The Act and Being and studying the notes again I felt more interested in hearing what Dr. Hanna had to say. His lectures were very interesting and class room discussing was enlightening. Wrestling with some of the questions in class has stretched my mind to look for similarities and differences to difficult questions. In class, I often find myself asking, what is God trying to say to me through Dr. Hanna and why now? As I came to consciously realize through the class, God uses Analogical language to speak to us in a way we can understand His works, I see how class can prepare someone to answer some of life’s difficult questions. On the other side of the coin, I can see how it can cause confusion if we don’t understand how God works from an analogical perspective. I especially enjoyed learning concepts to understanding the works of God as discuss in class like pre-modern, modern, post-modern thinking. In addition, I very much appreciated our chart of Foreknowledge, Predestination, Calling, Justification, and Glorification were great practical methods to explain how God works. Certainly, this course ranks up there on my top ten most useful classes in Theology in terms of everyday use in the ministry.
Omar Nunez Works of God: Take Home Final Exam page 2 Dr. Martin Hanna 7/30/09
I feel more comfortable talking about many texts that were mentioned in class, but Romans 8:28 has had the greatest impact on me personally. In this passage God works in monergy and in cinergy in all things. As I had previously presented this particular passage for my proposal speech, God seems to be working passively and actively in all things both the good and bad. God doesn’t stop working with us in both circumstances. I can have a million things go wrong in one day and it doesn’t mean that God has stopped working. I remember renting a condo that was being foreclosed on in Orlando, FL and I was not aware of the fact that it was being foreclosed on because the land lord was so nice not to tell me. I had to move out of that condo before I would get evicted. I moved with a close family friend’s house in the mean time and while I was there God used me to witness to Eladio. Now Eladio didn’t want to go to church because he had issues with church members so he stayed home every Sabbath. Strangely enough while I was there God had been working in this man’s life. I had no idea that my friend Eladio felt the Holy Spirit calling him to go to church. Months later my mom tells me that his wife said that he saw an angel by his bed side saying get up and go to church. His response is same as all of us who love God and do what He says. Eladio went to church on Sabbath mornings from then on and he’s changed his attitude and heart for God’s sake. Now I have no clue if I had something to do with his experience with God but I think about this instance and say that if God had any influence on Eladio’s life because I would go to church on Sabbath I’ll never know but I praise God that I was in this guy’s life during my difficult moments because I saw him changed his life around evening though I didn’t know what Eladio had experienced. Behind closed doors there’s evil ministers and good ministers working against God’s beloved people, but God works in any and every situation in our lives. It’s clear that God is in control even when things are bad and good. Romans 8:28 says “and we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.” There’s a passive and active side to the way God works in our lives. God works causes us to work and we work together with God. In the end God will explain all things behind closed doors both good and bad work for His good purpose, but for now we just have to trust and obey that He’s in control.
I must say that, this class has been a blessing; I am beginning to understand and appreciate who God really is. This class has opened my mind to things that are thought provoking. I have never had a lecture like this before since I became an Adventist. What really intrigued me was the lecture on predestination. I have learnt that God’s predestination does not determine the eternal salvation or damnation of human beings, as some would have us believe. The biblical teaching does not identify of predestination with foreknowledge, whereby God is said to predestine everything He foreknows. It’s true that the biblical idea of foreknowledge includes God’s knowledge of our eternal destiny (Romans 8: 29). This made me to understand that indeed the book of Romans talks about predestination to freedom. For instance, (Romans 6: 22). God conceived the idea and determined the plan of salvation before the world was created (Eph. 1:4). What we need to know about God has been revealed; in the universe within the cosmos because He created it. God comes down to the level of man to reveal Himself to us. In analogical language we use human language to describe the work of God in relation to the work of man. God reveals His work by analogy to us. In Isaiah 64:8 “But now O Lord, thou art the potter and we are the work of thy hands.” Illustratively, God is using analogical language so that His people can understand the message. Human illustration is limited illustration. At the same time God’s work is totally different from our work. Isaiah 55:8-9 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the Lord.” Although it is hard for us to describe God and other religious theories using analogy, there are certain ways in which it is possible to find out through them. We can find God’s properties from stories in the bible that have been passed down through generations. In particular with analogies, it is possible to think of God using human terms because analogy helps us to understand God and what he is. When using analogy it is not possible to describe God exactly using our language, because our language is limited. However, surely it would be impossible to understand him if people did not try to explain him. It would be impossible for people to have belief or faith in him if we did not use language they understand. What I have learned about the interpretation of biblical language concerning the works of God is that, God is greater than anything that we can think of, we can define him using human terms that people can understand. However, even though we use human language here to define him people are still unable to understand fully the reality of God within the range of our human nature, finite, and limited reason. God reveals what He said and what He can do in terms of human realities. For instance, when God says that He has an arm (Exodus 15:10, Ps 89:13), He does not mean that he has exactly or univocally what we call arm. The expression signifies that God’s reality is capable of performing all that can be performed by a human arm and definitely more. We cannot
conceived or imagine the effectual structural of God’s reality that allows Him to perform these acts. Yet the analogical language reveals to us aspects of God’s being and divine capabilities, while at the same time guarding the mystery of His divine nature. God has met this predicament by making Himself known to human beings on a personal level. The essence of divine revelation can be summed up by saying that God reveals Himself in words, acts and through different channels. The deficiency of our thinking process as it relates to God as a subject matter of study manifests itself not only when we discover that it is possible for us to know God apart from His self-revelation, but also when we realized the limitations in our understanding of that which reveals Him. Such limitations are due not only to our sinful natures, but mainly to the very nature of God, whose greatness is unsearchable” (Ps 143:3). Biblical inspiration is defined as the work of God by which, without setting aside their personalities and literary or human faculties, God so guided the authors of Scripture as to enable them to write exactly the words which convey His truth to men, and in doing so preserved their judgments from error in the original manuscripts. The Word of God as given to us in the Bible is a product of two free agents, human and divine. Through (fallible) human authors, God manifested the infallible and errorless writings, which convey His message. Although God is sovereign and can do anything by Himself, He chooses to have humans interact in His plan. This is one of the biggest differences between Christianity and other religions; which support verbal dictation. God reaching down to man, and using them as His works of inspiration. For example, inspiration is illustrated in this way: In 2 Timothy 3:16 that the entire Bible is inspired by God, not just partially. It is an important concept, for if we choose and pick some parts of the Bible as inspired and others are not, then the entire Bible soon falls apart. Who has the authority to decide the extent of inspiration, but God Himself. And God made it very clear that all Scripture, is inspired by Him. Therefore those who preach partial and degrees of inspiration are not fulfilling His works. Since God is truth (John 3:33, Romans 3:4), what is breathed out by God, must also be true (John 17:17) and infallible. The process of inspiration is also described in 2Peter 1:21, “for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.” All Scripture was regarded by the Jews as prophecies that did not originate from man, but came from God. The Holy Spirit inspired the prophets or apostles to write the truths, which was then recorded and superintended by God to ensure that the messages were not diverted, misdirected or erred by the fallible author. This was the true works of God. It is important to point out that inspiration was not a mechanical dictation of the Scripture to the authors. The authors were free to express their emotions and style in their writings under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Conclusively, inspiration as seen in the writing of scripture is the work of God. Therefore, one may conclude that the biblical language itself is a work of God.
Roshelle Brenneise THST520 - Works of God July 29, 2009
FINAL EXAM – Part 1
Exam question: Describe how your perspective on the works of God has changed or developed during your study this summer. Mention some relevant Bible texts and show how your understanding of these texts has progressed. What have you learned about the interpretation of biblical language concerning the works of God? In what ways is biblical language itself a work of God?
I am finding this final exam more difficult to write then I expected. It is not as simple as I thought it would be to talk about how my perspective of the Works of God has changed over the course of the class. Most of the information presented in class this summer was not necessarily “new” information for me, but it was packaged in such a way that it was all new and fresh to some degree. Part of my problem is that most “problems” in the Bible don’t seem all that complicated to me and so I don’t expend very much mental energy trying to figure out things I don’t understand. For instance, it does not seem strange to me that the Bible writers used “human” language to describe God, because it is the only language we have and I just figure it’s the only way we have to understand “through a veil darkly” the things of God even if the words may not be the most exhaustive way to describe God. It is impossible to know God at all except that He reveals Himself in ways our limited brains can understand. He is so far beyond us and yet He wants to be known, so He reveals Him. Our knowing anything about God has nothing what-so-ever to do with us or anything we do and everything to do with God and what He does to make Himself known. He uses our language to describe Himself. That is really cool to me and the rest I just don’t worry about. There are three examples in the book of Genesis where God is described as going down to see if the rumors he has heard about the wickedness of men is true. The first story is that of the flood. “God SAW how great was the wickedness of human beings and the inclination of their heart was only evil all the time” (Genesis 6 – REB). The second story is that of the building of the Tower of Babel. “The Lord came down to SEE the city and tower which they had built….. Let us go down and confuse their language…..” (Genesis 11 –REB). The third story is that of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. “How great is the outcry over Sodom and Gomorrah… I will go down and SEE if their deeds warrant the outcry reaching me” (Genesis 18 – REB). Now from a perspective of Foreknowledge, why would God “need” to go down and SEE what is going on on earth? He already knows, right?? From a perspective of whether God has eyes or not has never even entered my mind than it is anything other than a human way of describing God. Why this doesn’t bother me is very simple. It is not for his benefit that He is described as having to “see” if the rumors are true before He takes action against sin. It is for the benefit of the on-looking universe and sinful humanity. He knows what is going on, but He is a God of full disclosure. Sin has to be dealt with, but if He just came in like a tornado and destroyed without laying the foundation for WHY he is destroying, He would leave Himself open for accusations of arbitrary annihilation, so He gives evidence. I have found no place in the Bible where God just randomly destroys; He always lays out his case and reasons why before He takes action.
Roshelle Brenneise THST520 – Works of God July 29, 2009
FINAL EXAM – Part 2
There was a line of thinking that was completely new to me and that came from the book Act and Being. It has never occurred to me before to think of God as an essence apart from what He does. It is a concept that has never passed through my grey-matter. I’m not sure if I completely understand it even now and I don’t think I want to spend to much time thinking about it because it is so far from my own way of viewing God as who He is because of what He does. Apart from the book there were two concepts in class that had new dimensions for me and they are the F, P, C, J, G and the Monergy/Synergy concepts. My favorite verses in the Bible are Romans 8:31-39. What I had not done before was to put the whole chapter together, which seems funny because I am always telling people the importance of reading the Bible as a whole and not picking and choosing. Like I said above, I don’t worry about those things I don’t understand. I am content until God chooses to reveal something new to me. I have been aware (in the back of my mind) about Foreknowledge and Predestination, but I have not focused on them at all, because I took it for granted that I had free choice AND God knew all about it before hand and there was no contradiction in my mind. The discussions in class and Dr Hanna’s take on the concepts of Foreknowledge, Predestination and Calling really did nothing but confuse me. I am just simple minded enough to believe that God is God and I am not and He can be and do what He wants apart from my understanding of it all. I was able to look at Romans 8:28-30 with new glasses and then put those verses together with the rest of the chapter, which gave a deeper and more complete picture. I thought I understood it all, but as I am writing this paper, I realize that I don’t understand it at all even after going over all my notes. This will remain a lap question, but I am confident that God will make it plainer to me if He thinks I need to know it. The other concept that had new dimensions was the Monergy/Synergy concept. Again, it is not new per se, but it was presented in a much deeper and more profound way then I had ever thought of it before. The terminology was new – Monergy: What God does alone (Gen 1:1), Synergy: what we do together in cooperation with God (Rom 8:28) - makes perfect sense. I liked the idea that human Monergy is sin because we try a do apart from God, but at the same time Monergy without God is Synergy with the Devil. Humans can never do Monergy because it is Synergy with either God or Satan (1 John 3:8). Monergy and Synergy brings me to my final thought. There was a recurring theme throughout the entire class and that was the importance of and/both. We get in trouble when we say it is either this way or that way. For the grace, grace, grace people the problem is not that they promote the grace of God it’s that they deny his justice. For the foreknowledge/predestination people the problem is not that they promote the omniscience of God it’s that they deny freedom of choice. I appreciate Dr Hanna’s emphasis on a holistic view of the Bible. We will always live in the tension between what has been revealed by God about Himself and what we don’t know. I like the words from Phillips, Craig and Dean’s Song “You are God Alone” – You are not a God created by human hands, a you are not a God dependent on any mortal man, You are not a God in need of anything we can give, By Your plan that’s just the way it is, You are God alone, from before time began, You were on Your throne and You are God alone…….” Thanks Dr. Hanna, great class!!!
Herbert Oliphant Doctrine of God. Paper #1 I have been enlightened by the course. Of note are the following points that got me to develop my thought process on God and the way He works :( a) Any reference to God is anthropomorphic and is inadequate to fully express who God is and how He works. In fact, it is impossible for a Human being to adequately explain who God is because of the human limitation.(b)There is a close connection between Man’s works and God’s works.(Rom.8:28-30)(c) especially verses 29&30 which address predestination. (D) Monergy and Synergy. Firstly, I must revert to point (A) which speaks about anthropomorphic term. This concept was expanded on and breathed new life into my insight in light of the fact that while I knew that we as human beings are finite and God in terms of his personhood, intelligence and sphere, is definitely above us and supersedes us in all point as our Creator. I never really took as much time before, to examine the idea, that technically while God is respected as our creator, our concept of him helps to shape who He is to us individually. Hence, the argument that God is who we make Him is technically correct. In light of this fact however, it is incorrect if we use our analogy to express that God is nonexistent if we do not believe in Him or create an image of Him in our minds where we create Him in our image. Here I see a lack of available words to adequately explain who God is however my attempt is summed up in these words. God exists independently of us and can do without us but if we never perceived or created a Supreme Being in our thoughts and use our limited knowledge and understanding to converse among ourselves (Human) about God and interpret nature through a “God created all sense” and also if we had thrown out the bible then who or what would we ascribe the Creation, mysteries and Cosmos to?. No doubt, the evolution “Big Bang” theory would be a reasonable alternative, but the truth is there seem to be a Monergy on the one hand and Synergy on the other. We need Him and He as God certainly needs us. We need him for dependence and existence but he needs us to much lesser degrees and certainly not for any purpose to qualify Him as God because he is Omnipotent Eternal etc. My perspective of God defines who God is to me individually. The Sovereignty of God is however, not shaped by what we think or imagine. He is God Almighty believe it or not If we are dead or alive, rich or poor in other words Humanity cannot claim adoration of or praise for the creation of God or the universe, on the reverse God is entitled to worship and praise and He it was that created the universe. He (God) is responsible for the works of the Cosmos. 1Cor.12:6 God works all in all in order to be all and in all 1 Cor.15:28. Rom.8:30 that seemingly refer to predestination is still not clear to me and is not necessarily a concept that I am ready accept at this time. That God has predestined us to freedom sounds credible but this act of predestination of humanity to anything good or bad leads to a lot of controversy. If God has predestined us to freedom, how about respecting our right to choose bondage? We would not have freedom to make our personal choice right or wrong. I was blessed by the meaningful way the entire passage in Rom.8 was explained but the concept of predestined to freedom has not yet found root as I am still wrestling with the concept. Another concept that inflicts holes in this theory is the idea in verse 23 that we are waiting for the deliverance into freedom. If we were predestined to freedom why do we have to wait to receive it when we need it both now and from previous times?
==>Works of God was not clear to me. What I knew about the works of God was a mystery. Yes! It is. And still it is a mysterious thing even now. We're creatures. And how dare to know the Creator’s thoughts? If I know His works, then I would become a god. But I don't want to be a god. Because being a god and his job have too many things to take care of. I'm grateful for being a man. As I took the lectures, I have become clearer about the works of God in which I can clarify some of them and I could glorify for the greatness and mighty power. The way Dr. Hanna teaches us with his simple drawings and words was very interesting and really helpful for me to make an outline of God’s work in the Bible. “F-P-C-J-G” This is like an excellent format to study the works of God in the Bible. I had learned them before separately and partially. But now I can arrange them on one line or a column to sort by the topics and by the order. And I practiced it in my research paper(The works of God in Paul’s letter to the Ephesians) that was to me fantastic experience. I have still a lot to study more. The Bible is like a scramble book that we have to search and explore for the truth which is not easy to grasp. While I was researching the book of Ephesians, I was surprised that the word of God seems like a cube that has more than 5 or 6 dimensional points in a short letter or even in a sentence. When Paul was writing his letter to the people in Ephesians, God also was writing His letters toward us who are going to live in 2000 years later and for the other people who are seeking the truth. So we need to read the Bible not in the way of reading for newspapers or fictions but a specific means or different approaches. And The “F-P-C-J-G”(Fopecajugo – This is what I made for the mid-term test) is like the one of amazing approaches for the works of God in the Bible. Everything begins by the will of God and in accordance with his pleasure and His will. (Eph 1:1,5-Forknowlege) And In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, and God prepared beforehand that we should walk with them(Eph 1:5, 2:10) Then He called us as His servants, a minister(Eph 3:7), apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and teachers(Eph 4:11), Be followers of God(Eph 5:1) Walk worthy of the calling(Eph 4:1). And for the next step of the works of God, there are so many different works of God in the Bible. And through my research, I’ve found three essential works of God for the justification and sanctification. First was the redemption and enlightenment through the work of the Holy Spirit. (Eph1:5,6,7,13,18) Second, the unification and faith and last one is the experience for the holiness(1:16) and blameless(1:4) The final step for the works of God is Glorification. The most interesting thing from my study was this Justification & sanctification. We need to experience the synergy work with God. God always are willing to help and bless us with spiritual blessings from above. And the faith is the central role for the other two, enlightenment and experiencing the mighty power for the transformation and conversion into the new creatures.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”(John 1:1) It is interesting that even our words(language) have power. My words are more powerful than Obama’s in my house. I can’t imagine how powerful God’s word is! I think the interpretation of the Bible causes dynamic power to give life for those who are dead in sin. But we should use the biblical language for the works of God. Thus the biblical language is the most powerful and effective means for understanding the works of God. And we need to learn the tongues of the angels (I Cor 13:1) with love. How can we however, make the interpretation for the biblical language? I really enjoyed the lectures Dr. Hanna gave us. Those biblical interpretations I wish to make too as a pastor. I’m sure that it is the work of the Holy Spirit. Without His help nobody will make any correct interpretations. As a foreigner, I had to face many problems because of my language. It is not only for communication problems, but also whole matter of my life and my family also. We know how important the language is in our lives. In the same manner, In order to understand and experience the works of God, we also need a language that is the biblical language. We are the children of God. We have our own language which is the word of God and love. And God has given us a mission to teach this language to the foreigners who cannot understand. Jesus was the One who became the Word for us from the beginning. He came to us and showed everything we need. He came to this world and He spoke the heavenly language with His human nature. We can’t understand God’s Word, but we can understand what Jesus has spoken to us, because He used our language. This is what we should learn here in this seminary like the disciples. Incarnation of Jesus is the perfect example of the interpretation for the word of God. And His birth, life, death and the resurrection are the finest language and the message from God about His character and love. I pray that may God bless all the seminarians and become powerful translators who can translate the mysterious works of God.
THST 617 Works of GOD FINAL Professor: Martin Hanna, Ph.D. By: Fa’asoa Michael Fa’asoa
Exam Question:
#1. Describe how your perspective on the works of God has changed or developed during your study this summer.
Ans: Ten pages isn’t enough to try to adequately explain both the intelligent progression of my knowledge base of this issue, (WORKS of GOD) in terms of information via the backdrop of Biblical wholistic thinking; and the personal spiritual growth that I and my family have experienced with much joy developmentally and otherwise as a direct result of said experience in both the Salvation Class you taught in the first session and this class on the works of our Creator.
I use to think I understood what wholistic thinking entailed, and even attempted to live it since the first class I took with you in 2005; however, I will freely admit that I honestly didn’t get it until of late.
I use to compartmentalize various Biblical concepts such as: “Faith, Hope, and Love” (Romans 8) in individualized elements of their own in more of a progression in one’s spiritual growth but didn’t see that they can also interchange within and amongst themselves as one grows in the “fullness of Christ Jesus.” Paul’s linking of these concepts together is progressively clearing to me. Especially considering Gal. 5:5,6 where Paul states that, “…we wait for the Hope of righteousness by Faith, which works through Love…and 1 Corinthians 12; 13; 14 where he continuously, minus the later added punctuations, connects these concepts-though he seemingly elevated Love as the “skeleton” so to speak, which holds the flesh together, although at the same time, one can imagine not having any blood (which is life) or other proper physiological processes can make it a challenge for the “skeleton” to move around and have it’s being…indeed, the human mechanism needs all its’ organisms in order for the body to function at its maximum.
Also, until this class, it never occurred to me that while it was GOD’s purpose (Eph. 1:5,11) to predestine us all (human family) to be free-though many will have chosen not to be set free-the creation (cosmos-universe) itself actually/literally is yearning to be set free as well? (Romans 8:1-4; 8:21) I mean, I’ve known and believed that the Lion will someday lie down with the lamb and eat grass/fruits/vegetables…the list of possibilities is endless (see Isaiah), but never really consider that just as my soul longs to be set free from SIN/Bondage (Gal. 5:13) and this broken world of ours, so likewise in a similar manner, the yearning of GOD’s Creation to be set free…it makes me want to cry. Continue on next post…………….
Then there is the matter of my being ignorant of how deterministic I was. This was evident in my thinking in class in the past, though in growing process now (smiling); and also in my reflections with my family, as well as friends/acquaintances, and strangers I meet on the web or at the grocery store. It never occurred to me in the least bit that I thought this way, honestly, but I was-even with a previous introduction to wholistic thinking as I mentioned above.
Paul in his various writings (Romans 1; 2; 3; 4; 5;…8…heck all of Romans; 1 and 2 Corinthians; Galatians etc.) alludes to this concept of GOD working ALL things out for the good of those who love Him…while He is the GOD of GOOD, yet He also uses evil in His works for various reasons, but particularly in order to save us. What a GOD we serve!
I actually wouldn’t probably have known how to better effectively communicate with pre-moderns/moderns, and post-moderns (although in some sense I had been doing this all along, though probably not as effective) in a way which would make the truth relevant to their understanding, and yet not compromising any necessary Biblical point in the process…should it get to the point of Biblical reflection.
As my wife and my children are witnesses, these two classes have changed my life personally for the better more than you will ever realize Dr. Hanna. Thanking you wouldn’t suffice what GOD has done through/with to effectively and miraculously mold my deepest within.
#2. What have you learned about the interpretation of biblical language concerning the works of God?
Ans: Wow! To me Dr. Hanna, the better question in my personal situation would be: What have I not learned concerning the interpretation of Biblical language concerning the works of GOD?” And I don’t mean to say this in a prideful or downgrading way at all but simply to share that I have gained a better understanding of GOD’s work with and through us in this class then I have ever gained in the whole time I have been here at the Seminary.
I mean the whole idea of synergism versus Monergism: “…God working without the cosmos and yet with the cosmos. Further, when God works with the cosmos there is a distinction between what God does and what the cosmos does through powers given to it by God.” That is mind boggling stuff yet it’s not sooo tuff that I can’t but faintly understand it. The analogical concepts with which humans communicate on a daily basis, let alone preach and teach one another is very limited in it of itself which then causes the need of a broader, a more wholistic interpretation and understanding of holy writ. I am convinced that our Biblical interpretation concerning God’s work is only limited to the model that we use to directly or indirectly communicate with. How desperately important than is our desperate need for wholistic thinking.
#3. In what ways is biblical language itself a work of God? Ans: I mentioned the idea of Analogy above because it is the known way with which the LORD GOD has chosen to communicate to fallen/sinful human beings. In this revelation, GOD showed Himself a GOD of Love and a GOD who’s purpose and foreknown plan, which was for us all to be saved (though some will not be by their own choice) was motivated by His Divine Love which has been written on ink and “paper” and yet also on the hearts and minds of men throughout history.
The Bible tells us that GOD revealed Himself through the Inspired Word of Scripture, yet that same GOD who created the cosmos has incarnated Himself, yea exploded Himself in the scene of men. 2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Cor. 3:3; 2 Pet. 1:21; Eph. 1:15-22. GOD revealed and created by His Word and Holy Spirit, and inspired the Holy Scriptures yet He also illuminated His Church. He has revealed Himself through the Church.
GOD works through the Word and the Holy Spirit via the concept of Trinitarianism. He works through the Word and Spirit in the Gospel (Romans 1:16) of Christ. 2 Thes. 2:13 describes the process of Salvation through Sanctification of the Holy Spirit. In these ways is the Biblical language the works of GOD.
“The pen is mightier than the sword,” said Edward Bulwer-Lytton. What does that phrase mean? A sword changes people. So how are words mightier? Swords chang the body, sords change the heart. I was not surprised at the beginning of our class to discuss II Timothy 3:16, 17, “All Scripture is God-breathed…that the man of God may be complete…” We were created by God’s word, then we fell. Now, we are recreated by God’s words. We’ve gone into great depth this term in explaining that words themselves are analogical. What we mean by this is that words are not a thing in and of themselves. Rather, words are signs that convey meaning, sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly. With our new enlightenment it may be a temptation for many of us to loose faith in words. They may seem less than we originally thought, mere symbols where once we trusted to find accuracy. But, perhaps it is not that they are less than we originally thought, but that we have never really thought about them. I would propose, based on the premises of our class, that words are, in fact, a most accurate representation of reality, perhaps even more so that the things we can touch. Let me explain, in class we began by identifying the cosmos and recognizing that, though God enters the cosmos, God is not limited to the cosmos. In fact, God exists outside the cosmos as well. We discussed the tension that develops in our minds when we try to understand this. In effect, God reveals Himself in the cosmos, but there is always more to God than what we know. Mystery joins hands with certainty in all His revelations. Do words not follow a similar, albeit inferior pattern? Words are not god. But the very tension in the analogical reality that words are bridges to lands with more bridges is reminiscent of the idea that our world/cosmos is not all there is. In other words, the plurality of words is a most accurate form for communication when one recognizes reality is a plurality of which we are limited to the cosmological part. When the Bible says, “In the beginning was the Word” in John1:1 maybe the plurality of words most accurately portrays the nature of our Savior, both divine and human. Maybe it also follows that words are, in fact, a fabulous medium for conveying the works of God because of the inherent tension words bring. A word is not the thing it represents. Rather, a word is a smaller reality that connects us to a much bigger reality. All our knowledge of God’s works are, in fact, good, and true, and real. But we should not limit God to them any more than we would limit a dog to being, in itself, the collection of the letters D-O-G. For this reason, words are a splendid means for communicating about God. Word’s give hints to realitys beyond our presence, so do the revelations of God. Language sets us up to embrace accurate pluralities. Biblical language in teaches which pluralities to accept, and which to reject. Therefore, especially in regards to the works of God we should not be too specific as to cut off an accurate truth of God. We should also not be too broad as to embrace an inaccurate truth about God. In the end we must draw our conclusions wholistically. Finally, I must say, to be Biblical is to be wholistic. What is more is to communicate Biblically is to communicate in a wholistic way.
I could end this essay here but that would not be wholistic! Now, let us look at the evidence for the wholistic approach I have discovered this term. For me, my knowledge has progressed, not so much with reference to particular Bible texts, but with issues the Bible addresses. For instance, on the issue of sanctification and justification; there have been times in my own life when I have questioned my own justification on the grounds that sanctification did not seem to be happening (at least as fast as I would have liked.) Texts like Phillipians 2:12,13 have haunted me. In my efforts to “work out my own salvation” I did not know how to account for “for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.” This passage seemed mutually exclusive. Now, with the concept of “merits vs. conditions” in mind, this passage is easier to embrace wholistically. The focus is conditions, not merit. We never obtain merit, but that should not lead us to exclude conditions. This synthesis largely comes from the ideas of monergy and synergy. I have to say, those concepts opened a whole new world of possibility to me. In the past, if I was thinking or discussion something monergistic I felt guilty for not properly considering the synergistic elements. For instance, I had a hard time talking about justification by faith without getting stalemated in my desire to account for conditional aspects. But, when I accounted for the conditions I felt as though I was being a legalist, focusing on works. Now I can comfortably talk about either without the guilt of excluding the other. This leads into our extensive conversations about Romans 8. I find it comforting to look at the ideas of foreknowledge and predestination through the lens of monergy with the remaining, calling, justification and glorification embracing elements of synergy. Often we handle these ideas in Romans 8 and elsewhere as if since they begin monergistically that is how they will end. The continuum Dr. Hanna developed with the commentary of monergy/synergy allowed me to escape some of the linear if-it-starts-this-way-it-must-end-this-way thinking. Also, packaging these concepts in the context of freedom, as Romans 8 does, really opened my eyes to what God is doing. This discussion helped my shed some Calvinistic struggles I did not know were Calvinestic. For me, when Dr. Hanna posed the question, “Can God know passively?” I almost had to grab my seat! “Of course not,” I thought. “God knows everything.” Yet, the argument that God must know evil passively is difficult to refute and opens up for a more specific question, “Can God know good passively?” This question boggles my mind in a good way. It opens up possibilities to my own relationship with God I had not previously dared to consider. For instance, maybe God can enjoy my life in a real way. We think, yes, that’s obvious. Yet, if God cannot know passively how can He experience joy?
Finally, my view of God has grown in relationship to the trinity. In class I was called upon to give an example of the trinity working together on something. Embarrassingly I could not do it. But, I will end this paper with this question: “Can each member of the Godhead relate differently?” All we have discussed this term takes for granted (at least mostly) that the Godhead all foreknows, predestines, calls, justifies and glorifies with the same approach. But what if we could take this class three times, once for each of the Godhead. I am studying Revelation for my devotions and I noticed something odd midway through this class. Revelation 1 starts out, “The revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave Him…” God gave Jesus a revelation that is at least partly about Himself. Why would this be necessary if they are the same? For me, every word of the Bible is exploding with new meaning. I can ask myself, “How would the Holy Spirit relate to this? or the Father, or the Son.” Naturally, there would be a danger in assuming there is always differences, but Revelation 1:1 may imply the same danger exists for assuming there are never differences. We have to think wholistically, even about the Godhead. I would not propose my new reflection on the Godhead, or even this class, is about figuring everything out. Rather, I would say it is about opening ourselves up to God’s call, to hearing God’s words in God’s ways.
Final Exam Question 1 Describe how your perspective on the works of God has changed or developed during your study this summer. Mention some relevant Bible texts and show how your understanding of these texts has progressed.
During the course of the class my conception of the works of God was broadened beyond what I traditionally. I always viewed the acts of God as events in time, or interruptions in the everyday but during this class I learned the act of God cannot be limited in such a fashion. The first thing I learned and perhaps I’ve named in first because it sticks out so much in my head is that the first Act of God was freedom of choice. The idea of choice is central to both the problem of sin and the beauty of salvation. The act of God as freedom is seen vividly in the Old Testament in the case of the Garden of Eden. In Gen 2 God sets before Adam and eve the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They were told not to eat of the tree of good and evil with the penalty being death but they still had the option to eat of the tree or not. Further in the Old Testament, in Joshua 24:15 Joshua sets forth before the children of Israel the choice of wither they will serve the Lord or serve themselves. In the New Testament the idea that man is given a freedom of choice on wither to be saved or not is clearly seen in the book of Romans chapter 8 In Romans Paul sets forth in Romans 8:2 that a man who is in Christ is set free from the laws of sin and death. Gal 5:13 also makes use of this analogy of freedom by stating that we are called to freedom. These texts give the impression that the life we are called to is a life of freedom. In Romans 8:15 Paul says that we have not received the spirit of bondage but the spirit of adoption of which we cry out Abba Father. In all, the Bible gives a picture of Freedom for man, a freedom to choice life and peace and a freedom to choose death and loss. I’ve always had a belief that we have freedom in Christ however the intricacies and the impact of such a freedom were not known to me. If I was to face a Calvinist in a discussion on predestination vs. freedom of choice I would have given my pat answers perhaps from Joshua the most commonly quoted text about choice but I don’t believe I would have a firm standing in regard to the idea of predestination. During the course of this class I’ve come to see that our very idea of predestination is flawed. When we normally see predestination we immediately see firm fixed role in which we have no choice but the Bible’s view of predestination is of predestination to Freedom. The bible says in Romans 8:29 says we are predestined to be conformed into the image of his son. This text is given in context that we are given freedom from sin. It’s a freedom that I have not been able to put into exact words until this class
What have you learned about the interpretation of biblical language concerning the works of God? In what ways is Biblical language itself a work of God? I have learned that as humans our language and understanding is below the magnitude of God therefore we seek to describe the perfect, imperfectly. Our language especially in our understanding of the work of God is only descriptors. The greatest tool of this is in how the Bible uses analogies to describe the works of God. Comments like the “eyes of the Lord are going to and fro throughout the earth” seeks to describe God’s perception. Since we have no conception of sight outside of our relationship to human sight we describe God in analogy to ourselves, our eyes. I have also learned that illustrations are used to describe the work of God which is often beyond our full comprehension. An example of this is in Is 64:8 where Isaiah describes God as a potter and we the clay. Isaiah didn’t mean it literally but he gives the showing that God’s work is transforming work in His children. The purpose and reason behind such descriptory language is that our thoughts cannot match His thought paths. In Is 55:8, 9 God states that His thoughts are higher than our thoughts and His ways then our ways. Therefore God has to condescend to reach our ways of thinking. Which brings us to the last part of the question, in what ways is Biblical language itself a work of God? The work of God in language is a work of Revelation. Humanity in its broken state cannot hope to have relationship or knowledge of God. It may have been possible in the Garden but even then God actually visited them in the Garden. Therefore God had to reveal Himself to man. The most prominent way of which we know outside of prophecy and nature is the written word of God. The bible in describing it’s own nature states that all of scripture is inspired or “God Breathed” 2 Tim 3:16. Therefore all scripture is given by the moving of the Spirit in Revelation. The greatest description of God’s revelation and inspiration is shown in Jn 1:14 when John says that the word became flesh and dwelt among us, revealing that Jesus dwelling among us is a continuation of the work of revelation that started in the written word of God. John goes on further to say in vs.18 that Jesus came to “reveal” the father, the Greek actually says to exegete the father. Showing, that Jesus in His essence is God’s word in human language without an in-between such as a prophet or priest.
Final Paper part 1: One of the most significant ways that my perspective has changed is in understanding that there is joy in asking hard questions, and discussing them, in seeing things differently as other people and to explore together what some possible answers might be. In the past, when taking classes akin to Works of God, they lacked depth because their was hesitancy on the part of both professor and students to ask the hard questions, and any time something that we didn’t have a clear answer for came up, it gave way to debates and disagreements, because on one side of the class there were those who couldn’t fathom a way of thinking that was a little bit outside our standard and acceptable line of Adventist talk, and there were those who weren’t satisfied with the standard answers because they felt like there was more. In this class it just became so important for all of us to journey together down unfamiliar roads, and to be willing to be surprised by what we learned, let ourselves be the discomfort of uncovering something new and to let one question lead to another question lead to another question. Questions are good, and not having answers can be good too, because it means that your walk in search of it. I don’t remember exactly what the discussion was, but in response to a comment that was made in class, Dr. Hanna said, “I’ve never thought about it that way…I’ll have to think about that some more.” Thank you Dr. Hanna for in just a simple and honest answer, reaffirming that we can never come to the point where we’ve got it all figured out. On occasion, it happens that a young person who has grown up in the church, seemingly involved, takes a turn in their life and no longer finds them satisfied with following along the footsteps of mom and dad. I recently overheard a conversation about a young man such as this, who for a good portion of his youth was highly involved in the church, but it was based on the desires and expectations of his parents not his own, and it wasn’t enough, so he stopped. He began to search for his own truth. In response to that, someone asked, “What kind of truth did he find?” I can’t help but wonder what kind of freedom that young man had to ask the difficult questions, and perhaps come up with answers that, while still Biblical, they were just a little bit different from what was “ordinary.” What I’m trying to say is, what an incredible feeling of freedom I would feel, if I wasn’t sure about everything I believed in, and had a chance to sit in and listen to Dr. Hanna’s class. To ask questions that challenge us with issues like predestination, God’s will, Justification, our salvation in a way that we haven’t heard from the pulpit, or had our Sabbath school leaders read us the answers from the teachers quarterly, that would inspire me to first look for the truth that lay within the faith that I already belong to. It seems to me that when we provide a question and answer faith model to those that yearn and seek for more, we take away the daily discovery that God is still providing us, even the ‘very elect’ as we that guide others, we are still being led to understand at greater depths, as is our professor, as is anyone who he is also led by.
Final Paper Part 2: One of the lectures that stands out most vividly in my mind is when we talked about how calling is related to God’s love (Romans 8:28), justification is related to God’s faith (Romans 5:1) and Glorification is related to God’s hope (Romans 5:2). Here are two points to comment on…first of all, the language that we use to understand the works of God. How can it be that a simple rearranging of words made me look at something completely different? What a powerful question it is to think, that if were created in the image of God, and are created to be beings that have faith, hope and love, we must have been given these gifts from God, who also has them. The aspect of his love is an easier concept to grasp, but to talk about God’s faith? God’s Hope? In the same way that it takes us faith and hope to look beyond the reality of this world and believe in God, could it be said, that it takes God’s faith and hope to look beyond the reality of our sin, and have faith and hope in us? While both Creator and created meet at the cross roads of the cosmos, the greater junction happens between calling and love. Where, God who exists on his own and accomplishes every ‘good and perfect work’ chooses to work in synergy with his created being, and that synergy happens out of love for us. We walk along side his riding mower with our toy mower that blows bubbles and he smiles down on us and we look up full of purpose and assurance that we’re involved. In the order of salvation that we spent some time talking about in class, based on Romans 8:28-30, we talk about Foreknowledge, Predestination, Calling Justification and Glorification. While the first two are God’s work, we are introduced into the epic drama as we are called into his love, compelled by our love for Him, then in the rest of the story, His work in us is the resounding message. We answer the call, and from there, as we are in synergy with God, we carry our umbrellas, as we wait ‘in hope, by faith.’ When looking at Biblical language as a work of God, we discover that it is so because he has worked in synergy and monergy with human beings in order for us to be able to understand Him within what we know, that is to say, the cosmos. Within that, there is the method of, while it usually falls short to give us a complete understanding of God, we are better able to compare him to things we understand as humans, as we grapple with His “God-ness.” We compare the work we’ve done, the work we get to do along side Him, the work only He can do, and as we put all those pieces of the puzzle together, our whole perspective and understanding of God improves. We look at Him as the Potter, and we are the work of His hands (Jeremiah 18:1-6). He is the Good Sheppard (John 10:22-30). He is the Father and we are the prodigal children (Luke 15:11-32).
Final Paper Part 3: The last couple of days in class, we discussed the importance of being able to communicate some of the things we’ve learned to the congregations and especially the new believers we work with. It is one of the vital aspects of the new perspectives we have, and as was mentioned in class, not just communicating it, but continually studying, and realizing what an intellectual endeavor it is. To go into the depths of God, how he communicates and exists in the cosmos, the language he uses, we’ll always be learning. So let us endeavor to make asking the hard questions a part of what we do continually, so that we open ourselves to the fuller and deeper truths that God is waiting to reveal to us, let us ask the hard questions so that when we are asked, we can share part of what we know. We can guide people, not because we’ve got it all figured out, but because we’re learning to speak the language of the source of all truth.
Gitack Ju. final test #1. Rom 8:28-30 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknow, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. It was my privilege to attend this class of Dr. Hanna. This was my favorite class during summer session which is open my eye to see a small portion of eternal God. As I study more, God is become bigger and bigger. Actually this is my first semester in Andrews. Before I came here I was pastor in South Korea, and I preached to my beloved brother and sisters in Christ every Sabbath. As I cherish my pastoral experience, I was pretend to know all about God. I think that is all about God, but that is my big mistake and realized that it is more than sin. I didn’t know Him. I think I could understand Him little bit, but that is just my idea. But He knows me. Not just knowing about my present life, He knows everything on my past and future. Foreknowledge basis on the faith, predestination basis on the hope, calling basis on Love, justification by faith, and Glorification by hope are the steps to save and redeem us from sin. Among that process, the love of God is center of all process. Love is valuable only in the present time. The experience of love in the past doesn’t mean anything. The plan of love also doesn’t mean either. Love is the matter of present. Who was the person loved Jesus most in New Testament era? I think that is Marry Magdalene. She is the woman who had been caught in adultery.(Jn 8:4) She is the woman who anointed her costly perfume to Jesus’ feet.(Jn 12). She was the first person who came to the tomb of Jesus. Why does she come to tomb? Because of LOVE! All disciples lost their FAITH that Jesus will become the king of Jew. Because of His death, they all lost their HOPE for future. So they discouraged. But Marry Magdalene has the LOVE which is the center of salvation. She also lost the hope and faith, but she still has the love toward Jesus. So she went to the tomb which is cover with the big rock which she can’t move out. But unexpectedly she met the loving living Jesus. So she got the great privilege to see Jesus first after His resurrection. She was CALLED and free from the seven demons(Mk16:9), JUSTIFIED(Jn 8) and GLORIFIED (Jn 20) When I read the Jn 12, I thought that her dedication (anointing the perfume) is deserved to Jesus because of sin of her past life and gracious forgiveness of Jesus. And I also think that forgiveness is totally the God’s monergical work. I thought that there is no space for synergy which is work with her and Jesus. And as I look at myself, and thought that my work is the synergy with Jesus. That is my big mistake. Everything is from His grace. My work is in vain. Jesus gave His life 100% to us. Marry Magdalene breaks her perfume bottle 100%. But I myself pour my perfume bottle half and keep it for myself. And I am keeping saying that myself work is synergy with Jesus. As I study this lecture, I realized that I am worse than the Marry Magdalene. When I think my work is valuable to salvation, all my work is detestable to Jesus. All I can do is follow Him and love Him with all my heart. Which is also comes from ‘Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’ says the Lord hosts’ (Zech4:6)
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last."
Human is the being of forgetting. If I learn something, I forget another thing. We try to remember the love of God who takes care us every day, but we are totally forget Him and think that I made it possible. God tells us His love though several ways. Though the nature (SC,89), though the providential working(SC 91p), His word, and Holy Spirit. He speaks us through the Creation, which is the place we live in, and see it everywhere. But God show more powerful and significant way which is through the Incarnation, the cross is the most powerful evidence to teach us the love of God. But as time goes by, we forgot it. So through the Bible which is in my hand today, inspired by God, tells us every day. So every day and everywhere, God speaks us that He loves us. I, as a father of my two daughters, enjoy talking with them. And I talk to them that I love you. But without saying, I can show my love to them, like a preparing dinner, and buying cloths, and caring them at night while they are sleeping on the bed. But they always doubt their parent’s love. They didn’t think their faults and wrong doing, but complaint many ways. About 3 month age, I was walking down a load to go somewhere with my wife. Suddenly I was heard my two daughters’ urgent voice from behind me. They were very afraid and shouted “Father, we can’t lock the bike’s wheels.’ As I looked back, my two daughters’ ride on the bike together and coming down fast on the hill. By instincts, I was turning back and hold the coming bike and my daughters. Because of the acceleration, though I pushed and hold the bike with my whole power, I was fell down and hit the road surface with my face. My wife was almost stunned watching my bloody face. But my precious two daughters were safe and not harmed at all. I am still having a scar on my face now. Whenever they saw my scar, they remember dad’s love for them. As we see the most powerful evidence of God’s love, which is the cross of Jesus Christ, we fully understand God’s language. It speaks us loudly ‘I Love you’. It also speaks how dreadful sin is, which asked the sacrifices of God’s Son. That is the way of expression of God. Through the cross, God wants us to far away from sin, stop to commit the same sin again, but to come to God. But we also forget the cross of love. So we need the work of Holy Spirits every moment. Without His illumination on everything of our life, we tend to incline to sin. As we listen to God’s word and as we also speak to God by praying, our relationship will be closer and closer. He will speak deeper thing. 'Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things, which you do not know.'(Jer 33:3)
1.Describe how your perspective on the works of God has changed or developed during your study this summer?
I do not know how to express my impression about “The Work of God” class. Third session gave me a special experience than I thought. I had a vague perspective about this class before I took it. I usually thought that the works of God is His some actions toward human being, but while I attend the class, I recognized that I can not dare to estimate spheres of the works of God as Isaiah 55:8-9 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.” Especially, it was very impressive that His thought including foreknowledge, predestination, justification, sanctification and Glorification is the work of God. I understood that it will be continued according to God who creates times and spaces. Dr. Martin Hanna gave me many insights to look at the bible. At the beginning the summer session, some of seminarian advised me not to take this lecture. They told me that because this lecture was so difficult and abstruse, I could not understand it. Of course, I had a problem of language but I thank our god for given me the new aspect about “the work of God.”
2.Mention some relevant Bible texts and show how your understanding of these texts has progressed.
One of the best points is that I could understand Genesis 3:22 in which I always had a question. Two years ago, I have taken a lecture of Pentateuch by a theology professor of southern college when I attended summer session in Korean Adventist University. At that time, I asked him and his interpreter that what this verse means. The bible said that “And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” I really wondered what the meaning of “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil” is. I could find according to Dr. Hanna’s class that the answer is His goodness and His foreknowledge. God knows good and evil (Gn3:22) but His action is always good. Men also know good and evil but their action are not good. He fore-knows it, but there is no evil in His. His law is good and holy, So He fore-know the evil according to goodness and the law.
Another Bible text is Rom 8:26-30 and Ep1:4-11. I thank Dr. Hanna giving me understanding of Foreknowledge and predefinition of these verses.
What have you learned about the interpretation of biblical language concerning the works of God? In what ways is biblical language itself a work of God?
I like this verse Rom8:31-32 “What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own son, but gave him up for us all who will he nor also, along with him, graciously hive us all things?” I learned Him through the interpretation of biblical language. I can not understand the Works of God toward me, but I know that He is my God and He gave me all with His son. Sometimes I could not understand any parts by reason of language, but I am learning several biblical languages concerning the Works of God. First of all, the bible is the word of God and the God, Himself (John 1:1-3). I know that it has strong power itself which makes me impression. And I am learning His goodness by the Spirit of God. And I am experiencing the incarnation of Jesus in me by the grace of God. And I have learned the Monergy and Synergy of Theos and Cosmos. I have learned the interpretation of biblical language concerning the works of God.
But the most important point is that He is my God, He gave my all, He is at work in me according to the Works of God. It is true that biblical language is a work of God itself, because fore-knowledge, predefinition, calling, justification, sanctification and glorification are the works of God. We can not understand all things, He gave inspired his-breathed into the biblical language (2 Tim 3:16). I can feel the works of God which is doing in me, when the language which being living comes in my heart by Holy Spirit.
Actually, I have learned the impression and new perspectives, and I’ve got a fresh inspiration through this lecture.
Dr. Martin Hanna! I thank you sincerely about your lecture. Even though I have some problems of language, I have learned many insights which I should use in my mission work after this seminary course. God may bless you.
Oliphant Herbert Doctrine of God Paper #2 . I must continue by addressing the point of predestination in light of its different meanings. As mentioned in class predestination means will, purpose, freewill and intent. If we utilize all these meanings, we would be left with a lot more questions than we presently have. If we were predestined to freedom as God planned. Why as owner of the plan He never took charge fully?. Concerning the concept that deals with analogy I must agree it was murky initially and still needs more time to be critically assessed. However, It was refreshing to hear the concept that God is different from what He does or says everything. Everything we know about God has been revealed in the cosmos or creation. Outside of the cosmos we cannot know who God is hence where He (God) is he has revealed to us. To perceive the revelation of God it has to come in human form or else it would be difficult for us to understand if not impossible. It would also be above our heads and we could not explain it. Because of God condescending to humanity, we can use our limited and finite minds to express His revelation. Analogically we speak of God and we try our best to ascribe to Him His rightful authority with the best yet inadequate words or language we know. God extends his love to humanity gives them Grace although He transcends the universe and lives outside of it, but He came within its sphere gave humanity a fraction of his knowledge so man can utilize words to preach of him and point others to Him through the scriptures. He works “all in all” (Rom. 8:28)(1Cor.12:6) to be “all and in all” and then all his works must be understood to be working together for good for the justifying and glorifying of his beloved children. The result in this is a God doing His best in and through his creation and resulting in a satisfactory Divine work of God. Biblical language therefore is itself a work of God because he utilizes finite beings by inspiring or breathing (2 Pet.1:21) on them and allowing them to take his infinite truth and present them despite man’s imperfections. This has proven Beneficial for both Man and God. Man, in the sense that the bible gives him hope in Christ, and God in the sense that he is well pleased when he convicts men of sin and lovingly sets them free. Hence, biblical language is itself a useful tool that God utilizes to save humanity and to expose His work of love. Although God does not need humans to work or validate His work He works in Synergy with man to accomplish His good pleasure. The above text indicates Synergy both with God and with man. While his work is being accomplished through His words with man as the vessel, he monergistically works out the conviction of the hearts of men, because man cannot convict himself. (John 16:8). (Ephesians 3:20-21)Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever! Amen.
As I was looking over my notes I came across a discussion that was rather intriguing to me, that is the conversation about the infinite future. In the discussion the class came to the conclusion that the future is not set in stone and is changeable. However I think the discussion is based on a very strange assumption. That is, since God is all powerful then there can be no solid future. The problem is that I believe it's a false comparison. In my mind it's like one student saying the sky is blue but the other reprimands him saying that God is not limited by the color blue. The argument does not follow. Part of the problem is also the fact that we don’t understand how time flows. From the perspective of the present we want to view time as always shifting, and for all general purposes it is. However when we try to look at a pinpointed event in the future we have to say that it’s “written in stone” If I were to travel into the future by 5 days I would see exactly what I would be doing even if I had not traveled in time. When God looks at time, in the context of the future He sees the culmination of choice. Wither choice for God or choice for sin. He sees His own actions and the reactions to His actions. Since God is perfect nothing else could be done different. Thus the future is always set in stone, unchangeable.
thank you for your very helpful comments about the incarnation of Jesus is the perfect expression and language of God.yes l believe so. one thing that i notice Jesus's word to people he use parables and he explained why he used that. "Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says： 'Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive; For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.'But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;" Matt 13:13-16. human's language is very limited. but i believe that God hide the truth in creature that He created and sustains even now. that's why Jesus used the parable.even the creatures getting lose the true feature but we can get valuable lesson from it. (Ps 121:1-2)I will lift up my eyes to the hills--From whence comes my help? My help comes from the LORD, Who made heaven and earth.
it still needed personal interpretation. the ten Commandment is the God's perfect revealation for human beings about His character. we believe that the each word of Commandment was inspired by God. but it was still needed to be translated by Jesus when he came as a human being among us. so even we have perfect Bible with us today, still we need Holy Spirits interpretatoins.
Jaehyun Kwon Said... About Morris's reflection paper#2
He explained the predestination in connection with Dr. Hanna I also do not understand the predestination of God, even though it is the works of God.
I don’t see the theological reason of predestination. but actually, I can understand it through the belief of Jesus. So, I think that he has held the Cross of Jesus in His heart, because of he know all things, He is almighty.
His nature is love, but he had the Cross of sadness. he predestined it. So He even foreknew the Cross. When I meditate this, the strong impression comes to me. Amen.
Jaehyun, Kwon said ... About Dr. Hanna's Lecture of Ge.3:22
I thank Dr. Hanna for understanding of Gen.3:22. God is not evil but good. His nature is also good. He doesn’t know sin, but we can find some verses falsely charged. The bible said "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil"(Gen3:22).
I wondered how he knows good and evil. I though "do it mean that God has evil?" But that question is not harmonized with His nature.
But now! I know that God is good and evil, but He do not evil. What means? He knows all things but He knows evil through His Good nature. He cannot choose the evil because His nature is good. It was very interesting for me. Of course even now Amen.
119 comments:
The first two chapters of Act & Being were pleasantly surprising. I appreciated Gunton’s immediate contrast of Greek and Hebrew thought. Still more surprising was how far he takes the contrasting perspectives. Hebraic thought focuses on the acts of God where Greek thought focuses on the essence, or being, of God—hence the title, Act & Being.
I thought it might be beneficial for myself and anyone doing the “reflection” portion of our assignment to synthesize Greek and Hebrew thought. I just finished the course Revelation, Inspiration and Hermeneutics from Dr. Canale so I borrow from his explanations.
Greek thought largely stems from Platonic thinking. What is that? In the U. S. We use the phrase “it’s a platonic relationship” to indicate our friend is just a friend and there is nothing more, like girlfriend-boyfriend. In other words there’s a certain amount of separateness between us. Plato taught just that but in relation to the supernatural. In other words, the supernatural is completely separate from the physical, temporal world.
Let me illustrate: think of two broad lines, yellow and blue, painted parallel on a wall. In Greek thinking those lines would be parallel but not touching. In fact, there would be space between them as the supernatural and the natural do not mix.
In Hebrew thinking the same two lines are parallel but they overlap i.e. the two colors would share a green line indicating the interaction of yellow and blue.
So what’s the point? Greek, platonic thought builds on the philosophy of complete separateness of the supernatural with the natural. Hebrew thought notices separateness (yellow and blue) but also teaches that those two really interact.
It should be noted that Greek thought eventually came to place the supernatural within the natural but not with true cause-effect interaction. Hence there are blue dots within the yellow and vice versa. Still, there is no green, no true interaction, in the Greek model.
“It is when Christian theology becomes dependent on the philosophers’ speculations rather than on the equivalent Old Testament polemics against paganism that the troubles begin.” p. 6.
Thomas Oyaro
Thanks Jeff for your idea however to me Iam at the book to have an analogy of both divine and human action. There is some good sense that we can pick from the book which is relevant to the works of God. Because God uses human language to express his ideas to man. Both Hebrew and Greek languages cannot explictly explain the nature of God's action and being.
I don't mean greek and hebrew languages but greek and hebrew thought/philosophy. I was only trying to help describe these two in light of a class I just finished.
Fa’asoa M. Fa’asoa
July 7th, 2009
Ephesians 3:14-20
Analogical Nature of Theological Language
Response to our class discussion
Overwhelmed-completely weighted with the abundant, full, cosmic awesome love of GOD-in humility Paul cries out, “…when I think about these things, I fall to my knees and pray….” Ephesians 3:14
Paul, whom in days past as Saul the Pharisee and a know it all, in abated breath, after a single point and experience in time within a single pulsating thought, suddenly realizes his utter lack in knowledge of who GOD IS and what HE DOES-one concept closely woven and microscopically connected to the other.
Limited human analogical language cannot but minutely comprehend the absolute infiniteness of the CREATOR of the cosmos, yet it pleased Him to appear incarnate in a baby-within the warm cradle of a virgin’s womb-in human flesh so as to accomplish the mystery of saving my kind-human kind-mankind from itself.
“In Him (Colossians 2:9,10) dwelt all the fullness of GOD...” My finite mind cannot even begin to imagine wrapping around such a concept. How is it possible for one to be like yet unlike a man-child all at the same time? He is monogenes yet was/is able to have experienced our darkness to such a level whereby He is able to claim legitimacy as Saviour of the lacking and yet retained divinity?
Paul, in my opinion responded appropriately. When I, not Paul but Fa’asoa think on these things, I too fall to my knees and pray, yet even in this very action, in some mysterious sense, GOD is at work “…within my members...”
My daughters are my life in a unique sense; both very different from one another yet very similar in many ways. My eldest (Carissa-Jean P Fa’asoa) is four and a half going on twenty, mature for her age; and my youngest (Christina-Grace I Fa’asoa) one and a half-also going on twenty, imitating sister with almost every fiber in her being…almost.
Both are full of life, rambunctious, vivacious, and gorgeous with year round tans-have their dad wrapped around their little fingers.
Having observed them from before they were born in some limited sense, serenading them with my voice aided by the guitar while in utero, connected to them genetically and otherwise yet mysteriously all their own-connected to GOD.
Their language development, the changing of their features in time, their personalities and their ever developing sense of personhood is mind boggling. Rightly did the psalmist (Psalm 8:3) penned, “When I consider the works of your hands…who am I?”
My prayer is that I would ever be mindful of who I am and who He is, and with Paul, may I ever be quick to pray when considering the Almighty and His works.
You are right jeff. I have also read the first two chapters of the book act and being,the author is talking about the Hebrew law and Greek philosophy. Indeed there is no human law and philosophy that can explain who God is because He is the Iam who Iam.
Ilike what thomas said that neither the Greek nor the Hebrew philosophy can be able lead us fully to understand the works of God. Ihave also read the article by Fa'asoa and i do also acknowledge the fact that human analogical language cannot fathom the infimiteness of the cretor of the universe.
jeff I appreciate what you have to about the vast difference between Hebrew and greek thought. I took Canale as well and am however changed. I want to add that while human language IS limited in its ability to describe God it is all we have. There is no other way for us to tell each other the grandness of God but through our feeble language. We just need to do the best we can and believe that God will fill in the gaps as he sees fit.
In response to Thomas Ong'ou's last statement.I think it is ok to refer to God as the I AM but the last reference about 'who Iam' seem to suggest that you are God.This is your statement "..He is the Iam who Iam"
I appreciate Jeff's attempt to explain Gunton's intricate concept re Hebrew and Greek thought on God.Sounds more to me like what the Apostle Paul calls "the foolishness of.." In fact thats the way i feel whenever i try to explain who God is.
Let me try again: Greek thought believes God doesn't really interact with us and that the supernatural is ONLY abstract. Hebrew thinking believes God REALLY interacts with us and, though He is far above us, He is NOT only abstract.
Ryan Hablitzel
ID #138672
Dr. Hanna's discussion regarding the postmodern's acceptance of dialogue between science and theology has been quite revealing to me. My challenge lies at the practical level of implementing a positive dialogue between science and theology in Adventist Universities.
The majority of postmodern dialogue between science and religion is based upon a corrupted understanding. Theology has been corrupted into a state of spiritualistic thought. Science has been corrupted into a practice based upon a corrupt understanding of reality. With this huge push toward a corrupt dialogue between science and theology it is difficult to move into a true dialogue between science and theology.
Corrupt scientific and theological thought has effected the way our universities do science and theology. The big question in my mind is - how do we move beyond this corrupt dialogue into a true dialogue that is relatively free from corruption?
I believe that our universities must begin the dialogue between science and theology by recognizing the source of all science and theology. By holding the Creator Himself as the standard of ultimate truth one can begin his or her study with the understanding that ultimate truth is found in God alone and will not be obtained by the creature who can continually grow in knowledge toward truth. Science and theology based upon God, who is the ultimate truth, can begin to inter into a proper dialogue.
Is it possible that our science departments will begin to become the pinnacle of scientific thought as they begin to view science with a new paradigm? Will science be advanced to the next generation as it begins to study the creation with the presupposition that there is a creator who reveals Himself is His creation? Will the relationships of cytoplasm and the nucleus of a cell be seen in a new light? Can dialogue between Biblical theology and the science departments move science to the next generation of understanding?
Likewise, will theology move to the next level as it recognizes God's revelation in creation? Can science that recognizes the God of the Bible help move theology to the next level?
I believe the answer to these questions is yes, but unfortunately the solution is not that simple. Maybe as we take the practical advice given by the prophet to raise our children with the opportunity to grow a garden and learn of their Creator, they will begin to understand the Creator in a deeper way through His creation.
Roshelle Brenneise
THST520 – The Works of God
July 9, 2009
Reflection Paper #1
I admit it… I have been “Canale’d” – an affectionate term to describe a person who has taken a class from Dr. Canale. As I was reading the first two chapters of Act and Being, I could not help but be thankful to Dr. Canale for his incredible insights into the effect of Greek philosophy on Christian thought. And as the book states, it is a crime that Greek philosophy replaced the Old Testament as the theological foundation for the doctrine of God. The book states further that it is essentially true in the study of Theology that when you make a minor shift in one area it will have major impact on other areas. Because of Greek philosophy God is no longer viewed as being interested and active in the affairs of planet earth. He became and remains distant and completely unknowable.
The beauty of this class The Works of God is that our thoughts of God are being shifted back to a God of action and away from a God who is simply just, or holy or powerful or longsuffering. God knows the limitations of our language and He chose to work within those limitations. With Moses He could have said, “my name is SO and SO and I like to called THIS and THAT”, to which Moses might very well have replied, “HUH?”, but instead God said something very simple I AM WHO I AM. Human language cannot define me, but I will define myself in how I deal with you and with Israel and with Egypt and…. and…. and.
We see then, in His actions, His justice in the ten plagues, His longsuffering in the desert, His Holiness on Mt Sinai, His goodness in bringing manna and his power in parting the Red Sea. Suddenly those simple words have new meaning and give our feeble minds fresh insights into the God we serve. How cool is that!!!!
Fa'asoa,
Loved what you said man about the awesomeness of God and how it brings you to your knees. ME TOO!! Also, I remain amazed that while we are finite and God is infinite and because of that we can never (even the other side of heaven) know Him fully, he went out of His way and walked among us so that we can know Him as mech as is HUMANLY possible. Mind blowing stuff!!!
Rodrigo de Galiza Barbosa
Paper presented to the class works of God
July 10, 2009
OUR PLEASURE OR GOD´S PLEASURE ?
Is biblical worship our work or God´s work
How do a philosophy of salvation affects liturgy
Seventh-day Adventist sees themselves as preachers of the 3rd angels´ message of Rv.14:6-12 to the world. And right at the third ´´commandment`` of the first message says ´´worship`` God (see tense of this words). It implies that worship theme is part of this message. And maybe it is a major part of it since to ´´fear`` and to ´´give glory`` (the previous ´´commandments`` of the angel) to God is part of the liturgical process of the relationship of the creature with its Creator as reflected in the context of Revelation (see reference).
So it is important to evaluate which kind of worship we are offering or teaching to those whom we are calling. Since in the same context are presented a opposite kind of worship (v.9). And it is interesting that both the first and third angelic messages explicit mention worship ´´saying with a loud voice``, and the second do not mention it explicitly (wine and fornication implicit refer to pagan worship). Is this showing that this topic is of major importance in the context of these messages?
The book of Revelation says that there are two categories of worshipers. And the end of them is very different. Those who worship the beast will be throw into the hell fire (Rv.14:10,11; 20:14,15) and those who worship the Lamb will live and praise God forever (Rv.15:3,4). So worship have a major role in the destiny of humankind in the prospective of the book.
In relation to the beast of Revelation and the topic of worship is the prophecy of Daniel 7 and 8 and II Thessalonians 2 (BEALE, G.K. The temple and the Church´s mission – a biblical theology of the dwelling place of God. Vol.17 series New Studies in biblical theology D.A. Carson (ed) Intervarsity Press: Downers Grove,IL. 2004. chap.8). In both passages the reference to worship in the context of the sanctuary liturgy is presented. Rodriguez´s comments about these issues, related specifically to chapter 8 of Daniel says: ´´This horn acts against the Yahwistic cult…the horn assumes the authority of the Prince´s priestly ministry `` (DARCOM series, vol.2, p.534,536).
Have the little horn-beast kind of worship still have influence in the Christian world ? If yes, how much have that influence affect SDA ? Some have suggesting that the answer is ´´yes`` for the first question and ´´very much`` for the second. Independent movements of the Seventh-day Adventist church have strong criticism on these topics. Even in the cover of one recent publication shows people dacing with the cross behind them. Publications have been given out criticizing the model of some Seventh-day Adventist (SDA) liturgy relating it to the beast type of worship presenting the neo-pentecostals as a model that have influenced SDA´s. Are they right?
Our hypothesis is that a adoration centered on God´s works presented in the revelation will differ from a liturgy that goes out of these direction and points to the creation, or humans´ works, as the bases of its worship. In contrasting the high emphasis on human rationalism and emotion with a more Scripture based liturgy, we can trace some relation to some characteristics of the type of worship of the little horn beast and of the kind of worship of the Lamb.
The relation of this research to the topic WORKS OF GOD is how worship is centered in the fact of Creation and new creation (salvation) through history as the reason to worship God. And what are the implication of a Christian adoration that is focused on what God did, worked, instead of based on another thing such as the present emotions of the creation.
from Rodrigo Galiza 10, July
Fa´asoa I really enjoy the point of your posting, showing that one of the goals of the Revelation is to make as humble. As God is humble and meek, when we get in contact with Him we become like Him, humble too. Like EGW (Revelation) said, the first and most important principle of heaven is service, loving-service to one another. And remember what Paul (Revelation) said in Phil2:3-5.
Ryan, I think your reflection about the difficult of dialogue with postmodern secular people are right. The problem it is not only the subject we address, but how we address. When we use the language of secularism, we maybe are using their thinking, because our model of talking, channel, reflects the message that we talk. This is why I am researching about worship language (see my post). And education, like you said, have all to do with this subject. Happy Sabbath to all.
I was completely floored, impressed, inspired and left wondering after Thursday’s class. I appreciated Dr. Hanna’s simple break down of how our views of Science and Theology haves changed from the Pre Modern Era, through the Modern Era, and now into the post modern Era. Any discussion that deals with this subject matter has always been interesting to me. Up until now, it has mainly been in regards to how “Post Moderns” do church, or view worship or how they’re relationally minded. Those are valuable discussions to have, but until yesterday, it hadn’t occurred to me how deeply this issue would be played out in theology. Perhaps that was naïve of me, but it made me shake my head a bit and begin to begin understanding how really nothing ever stays the same, and that truth must be guarded and evaluated, and updated so that we have the tools necessary to defend truth.
I’m not saying that we need to update our doctrines, but more, update how we defend and present our beliefs. The advantage of the time we live in is that everybody will at least give you an initial opportunity to share. It’s this universal respect that people have for one another’s opinions that has tolerance at an all time high. The disadvantage is that now, ways that have worked in the past, like listing the irrefutable facts about the seventh day Sabbath and expecting the evidence alone to convict someone, will most likely make the first conversation the last. To step into the current pulse of the world, we have to accept that it is an ongoing dialogue with a person. A presentation of what you know and believe, in today’s language, without forcefulness. It’s not to say that our passion in what we believe needs to be subdued, but in fact, our passion souls should outweigh our passion for winning a debate. The same way that our understanding of God is ongoing, what we share with someone can be ongoing. And I think that revealing to someone upfront that you don’t pretend to have all the answers, but want to share what you know would only further open the doors for us.
This is actually the second response I write for this week, in the first one I wrote, I waxed long about how God chooses to communicate to us. How he has to communicate to us based on the limitations of our reality. As Dr. Hanna had been sharing with us in class, what we know of God is based within the cosmos and the word. I’m sure God could make himself even more understood if He could talk to us the way He thought, but that doesn’t work for us minute humans. For example, we’re sitting with our backs turned to God, so we’re not struck down by his sheer glory, and He’s just talking to us about Himself, maybe even the way He communicates to the angels, don’t you think our heads would just explode? I’m using this very flawed analogy to articulate the idea that God speaks to us in our language. Shouldn’t we endeavor to do the same with the rest of the world when we’re sharing what we know of God? Instead of limiting ourselves, or clinging to our reliable Adventist language and illustrations, can we instead speak the current language, using current information to share our ever current God?
The question that I’m still grappling with, I must admit, is how do we do that without loosing our integrity, the core, the most important thing.? How can we speak the current language and still sound like ourselves?
In this discussion about format of speaching we need to reflect if the language we use is affected by what we believe. If yes, so can we use relativistic words to express absolute truth...just to think Massiel and friend
Creation is a mystery that is difficult for humans to understand. By the word of His mouth, God created all that we see. “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth” (Genesis 1:1). This is a breathtaking affirmation. First, it denies the eternity of the creation. The expression, “In the beginning” (Hebrew beresit), pinpoints the commencement of the material Universe. The sun, moon and stars, the animals, plants and Adam and Eve. Though the Universe began, God always was (Psalm 90:2)! The New Testament declares: “In the beginning was [en,the Greek imperfect form of the verb meaning “to exist,” thus, “always was existing”] the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was “God” (John 1:1). Second, the Cause is identified—“God.” The name “God” here is "Elohim". Watson wrote: “Elohim" seems to be the general appellation by which the Triune Godhead is collectively distinguished in Scripture.” Thus, the plural Elohim suggests that multiple personalities within the Godhead created (bara—a singular verb stressing the unity of their action) the Universe. The Godhead is further alluded to by the use of plural pronouns in the narrative (Genesis 1:26). Attempts to explain such references as a divine accommodation to human terminology,
Also, many hold the Creation account of Genesis to be a fable. Yet, as the open minded individual studies the wonders of nature, the unfolding of a flower, the pink glow of a newborn's hand, the planets in their precise order, one cannot help, but have a greater appreciation of who God is and the miracles that He can perform. Others suppose that Creation is a fable, like many of the other stories of Genesis. However, since many of these have been proven correct as archeological evidence is unearthed (see the Surprising Discoveries section of this site), then the truthfulness of those leads one to conclude that the Bible is also truthful about a literal seven day creation.
How can we define God? And How He works? It is not possible for us to describe God’s attributes with human way of expressions. This is what I used to explain God’s attributes in my Bible study. If we are able to understand or recognize God fully, He is not the God any more worthy to be worshiped or feared. God is somehow a greater, higher and superior being. He is the Creator of all the universe. And we are a little tiny spot of his creatures. We are limited by time and space. We talked about time in our class. I agree that God created time for us. But to the Creator, time is his one of the creatures and does not a matter. Time becomes a matter for only mortal beings. There will be no watch or clock in heaven where there are only eternal beings. Time would be totally different to those eternal beings and they may have different meaning of the time. Just as Peter said in his letter; “But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.”(II Peter 3:8) We are living in this present time only and toward future. But God doesn’t need to separate the time as past, present and future. He is able to see in on one page of all the history including the future. What an amazing He is! How awesome He is! But we only can see the present page and remember only the past but unable to change. We need to open our eyes to see God’s works in our lives in a way that God works. I want to pray like David prayed “Open my eyes, that I may see Wondrous things from your law”(Psalms 119:18) If we try to see the works of God in our perspectives, we might see him just as a heathen god or an idol. We are to continue to ask God to grant us His wondrous and mysterious things as we seek the works of God.
I was impressed by the Mini-lecture about the relationship between the theology and science.
In order to learn the true science, we need to meet God, the Creator who has designed the science.
We have to experience much more God’s works in our Christian life. The characteristic of the postmodern era is confusion(syncretism). It is really difficult to define true or false in this age. That’s reason why we should have clear picture of the truth through the God’s words and study the true works of God. Natural science has been dominating the modern era. And atheism and evolutionism has been preoccupied in most schools of this postmodern world and their scientists and teachers. The true science is in the words of God.
JaeHyun Kwon Said...
THST520 – The Works of God
July 13, 2009
Reflection Paper #1
I want to scribe my reflections, taking the Dr. Hanna's class of first week, even though it is a lack of my power of expression on account of an unskillfullness of language.
Firstly, it is concerned with the creative work of God about Adam and Eve. God created all thing by His Word (John1:1-3; Gen1) according to the order. He however created Eve in the different way with Adam.
He could make Eve and Adam at the same time, but He had a special process to create Eve. Especially, Bible said in Genesis 2:19 "Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name."
Adam gave them their names, and they came to Adam a couple of by a couple of. But Adam felt that he was alone. And God created Eve after He took one of the man's ribs. And Adam said "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called woman for she was taken out of man"(gen2:23).
Why did God create Eve likewise? Why did He take the process to make Eve? Why did he take one of man's ribs of all ways?
What is His work about the process of creation on the sixth day?
Taking a class of Dr Hanna, I felt that he want Adam to know the works of God about the creation in the beginning.
Adam should understand the origin of their existence. And he should know that it is existed that he (created being) could not understand any thing. And He should understand the creation of God and the works of God according to Eve and the rib.
So by the process of the progenitor of the human race, we can understand the works of God as a Adam. We can believe the works of God about the cosmos like time-space creation, attribute and property of the Trinity, and so on.
Gitack Ju.
God uses all kind of method to reveal himself to the corrupted human being. It became more difficult to understand God’s attributes after human’s fall. But God’s characters still remain in the creatures, and human’s consciences. Most of all, God revealed himself through the incarnated Jesus Christ. The Love which is shown on the cross teaches us who is God and how He loves and cares us. And it is wonder that how the trinity God communicate and cooperate one another for the redemption of man. Through God’s this work, I realized the how precious value of human being is, and what a privilege we have the works with Him.
Jae Hyun Kwon said
response to Dennis
About this verse which you throw out the creation of God; “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth” (Genesis 1:1), I agree the meaning that you scribed
And I am expressing additional opinion
I think that Genesis chapter 1 have eschatological message.
Because our God said in the Isaiah 46:10; "I make known the end from the begining, from ancient time..."
So, the creation of earth includes the meaning of recreation in his ending time of this history.
Even though He has this in his mind, the creation of earth symbolizes the paradise which is recreate by God.
So, though I live in the earth day and day, I hope for his second comming.
Have a Good day!
Quigley Obrin Morris
Paper #1
Text from class discussions Day #1
1Corinthians 13: 12 (last part)
I know in part then I shall know fully even as I am fully known
It is all about the master of language; yes it is Brother Paul again, some how I am getting a feel for his writing. To me it really brings out a passion in me; he is describing two different situations here in two different places and both relate to human and their relationship with God.
He said “I know in part” this mean the physical body of man is capable to a boundary point. In fact the point is we are not able to do much with this sinful body that is locked in a sinful world. We are not able to understand or know the things that we want to know, or even understand the things that we want to understand.
“Then I shall know fully” he Paul is looking beyond this life, and beyond the boundary point where sin have no control on our bodies. In fact that sin corrupted body will be no more as the bible says “we will be change”. Then we will be able to know the things that were once beyond our wildest thoughts. With this obstructions remove it is only then that we will be able to know and understand the things of God more fully.
In the present of his redeemer his ability will increased and then the word fully comes in to play. The perfect transformation is completed and the once sinful man now goes beyond the boundaries of the sinful world and is able to know fully. And that is sinless quality that will be given only when the change is completed.
“Even as I am fully known” this is a knowledge that is privilege to God alone today. To fully know someone is to be able to read his mind; and today’s sinful man does not possess the qualities of that magnitude. It is only Gods knowledge that is complete. To measure our knowledge is only to compare us to each other; and that alone cannot take you too far. And man knowledge will never be like God’s or come close to His.
So Paul is saying I may not know every thing, but God knows me he knows now and he will know me when he comes again. I may not even understand who I am or who my neighbor is but the mighty God from his throne above knows us all. So the time is coming when His knowledge will be explained or I think it is better to say that Paul’s and our imperfect knowledge will be made complete by the only one who has always known us.
7/06/2009 9:21 PM
Quigley Morris
The works of God
I am thinking at class today
I am deeply impressed with today class discussion; because it has given me the desire to ponder on the works of God. And where do humans fall in this brode and unknown spectrum; do we have a say? Are we capable to change things? Does God break his laws, are we really free and by the way what is this freedom thing all about?.
I think we have a say in the works of God and we can even ask question, disagree and negotiate with God. He is so fair that He has given humans the privilege to talk to him; a position that our first parents enjoyed. When the Angels came to destroyed Sodom Lot did negotiate to save the City. This appears to me to be a God who love human and is willing to recognize all the intelligence he created them with.
We are not capable of changing things, but we are capable of making changes to our future plans. What we are able to do affect us but not the laws of God. We cannot function outside of the Cosmos; every thing that is coming from outside is not available to the sinful touch of humans. But what we can do is to use it to our advantage, and foster a cooler relationship with our creator. In fact we must remember we are creatures and not the creator, so we are subjected to just the Cosmos.
We are free but do not understand the scope of freedom. I would like to define freedom as the privilege to do what is Wright and the desire to standup against what is wrong. As creatures we are given the choice to do as we please; and at the same time is reminded of the future consequence of our action. That does not mean that we can do all that we want, because if we do we are likely to undermined the laws that are set to give us freedom. When one steps away from this guide and choose to do evil he has forfeited the privilege to freedom and set himself up to bondage
But God does not break laws, when he performs a miracle to us it may be some thing new in the Cosmos. But to God it is not new; he has his way around the things that he has created. He does not have to break a law to do something outstanding. To us it may be great but to him it is just a simple matter of the use of words. To think that God break his laws is to limit the might power of God. He does not operate through this narrow channel of possibility. But create them as is required. The Centurion understand that more than any one did he said to Jesus you do not have to come to my home just say the word. In outer words he was saying use one of the out of the cosmos laws.
Quigley Morris
The works of God
I am thinking at class today
I am deeply impressed with today class discussion; because it has given me the desire to ponder on the works of God. And where do humans fall in this brode and unknown spectrum; do we have a say? Are we capable to change things? Does God break his laws, are we really free and by the way what is this freedom thing all about?.
I think we have a say in the works of God and we can even ask question, disagree and negotiate with God. He is so fair that He has given humans the privilege to talk to him; a position that our first parents enjoyed. When the Angels came to destroyed Sodom Lot did negotiate to save the City. This appears to me to be a God who love human and is willing to recognize all the intelligence he created them with.
We are not capable of changing things, but we are capable of making changes to our future plans. What we are able to do affect us but not the laws of God. We cannot function outside of the Cosmos; every thing that is coming from outside is not available to the sinful touch of humans. But what we can do is to use it to our advantage, and foster a cooler relationship with our creator. In fact we must remember we are creatures and not the creator, so we are subjected to just the Cosmos.
We are free but do not understand the scope of freedom. I would like to define freedom as the privilege to do what is Wright and the desire to standup against what is wrong. As creatures we are given the choice to do as we please; and at the same time is reminded of the future consequence of our action. That does not mean that we can do all that we want, because if we do we are likely to undermined the laws that are set to give us freedom. When one steps away from this guide and choose to do evil he has forfeited the privilege to freedom and set himself up to bondage
But God does not break laws, when he performs a miracle to us it may be some thing new in the Cosmos. But to God it is not new; he has his way around the things that he has created. He does not have to break a law to do something outstanding. To us it may be great but to him it is just a simple matter of the use of words. To think that God break his laws is to limit the might power of God. He does not operate through this narrow channel of possibility. But create them as is required. The Centurion understand that more than any one did he said to Jesus you do not have to come to my home just say the word. In outer words he was saying use one of the out of the cosmos laws.
Fa’asoa Michael Fa’asoa
July 14th, 2009
THST520 THE Works of GOD
Act and Being: Hybrid Deity
“The God who transcends everything by virtue of his power. He is the substantive Cause and maker of being, subsistence, of existence, of substance, and of nature….He is the reality beneath time and the eternity behind being…He was not. He will not be. He did not come to be. He is not in the midst of becoming. He will not come to be. No. He is not. Rather, he is the essence of being for the things which have being.” Pseudo-Dionysius, the Divine Names, 817D, Luiheid, pg. 98.
“So there is nothing absurd in rising up, as we do, from obscure images to the single Cause of everything, rising with eyes that see beyond the cosmos to contemplate all things, even the thing that are opposites, in a simple unity within the universal Cause.” Ibid. 821B, Luibheid, p. 100
I appreciate Gunton’s response to Pseudo-Dionysius’ possible Neoplatonic conceptions-quoted above, still interesting is the way in which he responds against the backdrop of Holistic Biblical thinking that Dr. Hanna has been illuminating for us to consider against exclusivity, and determinable thinking. I find this concept seemingly alluded to my Gunton in his statements which I find most intriguing; note: “The negative language appears to take with the left hand what is given with the right. But that is no problem for the writer and all who follow in his footsteps because of their rational confidence in the mind’s capacity to ascend whence being has descended.” Pg. 17
“That might be a harmless philosophical conceit were it not for the fact that it appears to have, as a matter of historical fact, excluded other things, more important things, indeed, that need to be said about the GOD of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, of the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Pg. 17
It seems to me that Gunton is perceptive in pointing out the challenges he has found within Greek Philosophy, specifically as it follows the Pseudo-Dionysius milieu and yet, I must query; having done so, can we possibly take Gunton’s position too far?
What do I mean? I mean, Gunton says that “A properly Trinitarian understanding of otherness (is) only through his relation; who is known first as one who affirms the creation and only then as the creator who is distinct from the creation in order that the creation may be affirmed. But that is virtually impossible on the Dionysian account, whose movement of thought is away from this world to a timeless world beyond…”
In class we discussed the idea of ULTIMATE REALITY where, outside of the Cosmos (Universe or GOD’s CREATION) GOD is. All we know of and about Him has-and is being revealed to us within the Cosmos, yet the possibility of a “timeless” world in which GOD is-isn’t necessarily improbable…or is it? I tend to agree with Dr. Hanna’s take on it, what of you?
Romans 11:2 "God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.” Foreknowledge in the Greek is “PROGINOSKO” a verb, meaning to know or ordain before hand and “PROGINOSIS” also a noun meaning foreknowledge or foreordination. It is common for words in any language to have two or more meanings, usually a primary meaning and then a secondary. Such is the case with PROGINOSIS. The primary is "foreknowledge" the secondary is "foreordination". How do we distinguish the difference? It is "foreordained" when Divine appointments and activity are in view, as in the above scriptures.
Foreknowledge means to have knowledge of things to be. Foreknowledge is an attribute of God. Only God knows the future. And He does know the future. He wouldn't be God if He didn't, but the fact that He knows who is going to be saved, and who isn't going to be saved, does NOT determine who is going to be saved and who is going to be lost. Someone may ask, ''If God does know who is and who isn't going to be saved, how, then, can the sinner get out of it?" Foreknowledge, in Scripture, never determines what is to be - foreknowledge is only the knowledge of things to be beforehand. It is the same with our scientists, they can tell when there is to be an eclipse of the sun or of the moon: on a certain day at a certain hour, minute and second; but the scientists do not bring about the eclipse. God has foreknowledge, and by this foreknowledge knows the future, but that is where it ends. Of course God knows everything! He knows the very number of the hairs of our heads. He knows the number of the stars and called them by name. God knows everything, including the future. And, not only that, but God knows what would have happened if things had happened that didn't happen. He knows the results of all possibilities. The same is illustrated when David inquired of the Lord concerning his enemy. If he should go to one place, would the enemy be there? God said they would. So David went in another direction. Foreknowledge simply means to possess knowledge of things to be.
Fa’asoa Michael Fa’asoa
July 14th, 2009
THST520 THE Works of GOD
The Cosmic Christ of Scripture: Martin Fredrick Hanna Ph.D.
“Is there any new light in the old lamp? Yes! In fact the old lamp is always new and relevant. However, the bible is not a textbook containing all knowledge. Therefore, we should go to and fro between Scripture and Christ to increase knowledge of the light from God.” John 5:39-40 Cosmic Christ of Scripture pg. 39
I find it interesting that while from time to time the struggle with exclusivity still rears up within me; much more so is the desire to think wholistically. Even as I am reading Gunton, I see myself applying the principles of holism right from the perusal of the first page of Act and Being which I find humorous to some extent just because.
I am thankful for these principles because of its’ vast relevancy to pre, modern, and post modernity thinking. In focus however is the statement above by Hanna; that we should go ‘to and fro’ between scripture and Christ to increase knowledge of the light from God and I agree. Too often I have been admittedly negligent of wholistic thinking even as I have attempted to minister to those outside of Adventism as well as outside of Christianity.
Thank you Dr. Hanna for stretching my thoughts and ideas in and outside of class; and as a result, I am even now applying this concept in my family relations and is of tremendous help. To GOD be the glory, and to my professor some credit is rightfully due.
Ryan Hablitzel
ID #138672
Professor Hanna's questions regarding foreknowledge seriously challenged my thinking. Is God's knowledge active and passive?
The question I would like to ask is: where does God get His information? Does God hold all knowledge within Himself? Is there knowledge that God experiences in order to understand? Is there information that God observes in order to understand?
My quick reaction is that God holds all knowledge within Himself, but there are possible problems within this thinking. God has a knowledge of good and evil, but God has never had experience of acting out evil. Evil does not exist within God. So can God truly understand evil if he has never experienced it? Whereas man has taken on a carnal nature and has the propensity (habitual tendency) to sin, God has never experienced this habitual tendency to sin. Christ was "tempted in all points like as we are yet without sin." Christ never sinned and therefore never really experienced the propensity to sin that we understand by the experience of sinning.
Can God understand evil from the sustainment and observation of a creation that participates in evil? Does complete knowledge require experiential knowledge? Is God's complete knowledge based on a multiplicity of informational avenues? Does God's complete knowledge have room for Divine discovery? Does God need to experience sin in order to understand it in it's entirety?
One of Dr. Hanna's points seriously challenged my thinking. If Adam and Eve were given the choice of good or evil; and unfallen humanity was created in God's image, then can God choose good or evil? If God does not have a choice to be either good or evil, God created beings in His image that have a greater ability (greater freedom) than He Himself has. Does God have self control? Do unfallen moral beings practice self control? Does God have the freedom to choose? This concept has seriously challenged my thinking.
My picture of God is broadening. As we study who God is though His works we will not end up with perfect solutions. We can begin to understand more fully the complexities surrounding Divinity yet we are only beginning a process that will never end throughout the ceaseless ages.
Roshelle Brenneise
THST520 – The Works of God
July 16, 2009
Reflection Paper #2
This week has been mind blowing. The concentration it has taken in attempting to understand the concepts of Foreknowledge and Predestination has left me with a mind full of goo at the end of everyday. Not that the information is not worthy of study and understanding. Its just that in unlearning one philosophy of Foreknowledge and Predestination (even though it is understood that that philosophy is Greek in origin) and replacing it with a new philosophy of Foreknowledge and Predestination (even though that philosophy is Biblically based) has been draining. I feel like I have to rush back to my room and put my earplugs in before everything leaks out. I have to add, however, that this has been good stuff. I love it when the struggle is intense because it makes the “A HA” moment all that more fantastic.
While I love it, I also hate it. There is always a danger that we will become so “married” to our own “A HA” moment that it will become a point of doctrine rather than a point of on-going discussion. We can NEVER, this side of heaven anyway, fully understand what Foreknowledge and Predestination are and none of the philosophies can answer the question without creating a whole new set of questions that can’t be answered. So, this, as with many other unanswerable questions, I write down on my “lap question” list and wait patiently for my lap time with Jesus. I hope you all are patient because my list is getting longer by the day and I expect to spend several thousand years nestled on Jesus lap.
It seems like a good week for “Huh?”. The two chapters in Act and Being were no easier to understand then the conversation in class and left me, for the most part, more confused then normal (and believe me it takes very little to confuse me).
JaeHyun Kwon,
I am very happy to see new insights in the creation history that you came up with. I really am. The reflection that you made about God showing Adam His origin by creating Eve is very good. Maybe this can help us understand why God did not kill Satan right after sin…maybe He what us to understand better the process as it goes…but He does everything in wisdom and we do not need to ask why He did not the other way, for “all His ways are righteous”
Myong and Rochelle,
I really enjoy your point about emphasizing the difference of God toward us. When we try to hard to explain things in our language we may fall in the danger of making God in our image. I know that we have to ask questions and try to understand God in our language, in our image and reality, but we have to recognize that are some questions that simply do not apply to God’s reality…it is the divine part of analogy…the problem is to identify where the analogy part stop…and until where we can do our brain strech...I think our God given ability to think can discern that with the help of the Spirit
Thomas Oyaro Ong'ou
I agree with Roshell's comment about the philosophy of the foreknowdge and predestination of God as discussed in our class presentations. Only true philosophy can explain both the foreknowledge and predestination of God outside the box.The book of Job 28:28 says "behold the fear of the Lord is beginning of wisdom and to depart from evil is understanding." How can man who does not fear God and is evil by nature understand who God is? Knowing God is a mystery and we cannot fully understand him unless when we go to heaven and we will know him as He is. God's foreknowledge and predestination exceeds the limitations of man's wisdom and knowledge. Only the Bible can atleast explain a partly who God is.
THE FOOLISHNESS OF NOT HELPING
After we have talked in class about some aspects of divinity that just bothered all of us, I arrived home and remembered the class of Job that I had in Brazil. When we read the book of Job we see the story of a man facing hard problems, loss of family members, money, and almost faith in God. In this scene we see the effort of friends to help Job get out of the problem.
In this context we see the friends of Job coming by and after one week (2:13) feeling the emotions of his friend Job during 7 days, they started to talk with him. And what is interesting is that they discuss about the topics that we are discussing in class, the works of God in the light of time. Questions like, “Why God did that”, or “How could this be”, are frequently in the conversation.
But what is very bothering is that in the end of the book of Job is the answer of God about the issues is a turning point in the book. He does not consider the “beautiful” lectures about Him made by the all of them (including Job), but reveal Himself to Job. The first question that God asks is “Who is this that darkeneth counsels by words without knowledge?” God is explicitly condemning all the words previously said by all of them (see also Job. 41:7). And by looking the speech of God, He just ask questions about “Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him::he that reproveth God let him answer it.”
After seeing these answers of God, is not He telling us that talking about Him without a higher purpose to help people, in vain? I see this because the bigger picture of Job is of the Great Controversy (Chp.2), that I think, like Ellen White, should be the major framework to understand the works of God. We see Satan questioning God about the faithfulness of Job and than asking the permission to make his point, that Job was not really faithful. So when Satan remove physical things from Job, than family members, than his wife telling him to curse God, all this are attempt of Satan to undermine the faith of Job. And in this context the friends of Job appear with all this lectures about God to undermine his faith also.
This did not help Job is his suffering, this is why God did not address in His speech about those issues of “Why He did that or not.” After God himself asked a lot of question to all of them, He simply “turned the captivity of Job” (42:10). This happen after he had asked pardon for himself and his, so called, friend (42:1-9). Because of the humility of Job to recognize he has nothing to ask God, and that he had just to give praise to Him in whatever circumstances.
I learn that I need to recognize that when I am in the process of knowing God I should become like Him instead of questioning Him the things I will never be able to understand, neither do I need to understand. What I need is to be humble and help other instead of doing “philosophy” about their problems instead of helping them. Happy Sabbath.
In our class this week, Dr. Hannah has thrown to us this question; Did Jesus break the natural law while He was doing teaching, healing and making miracles for people?
‘Yes’ or ‘No’
How can I answer?
Some may answer ‘Yes’
Did really Jesus break the natural and moral law?
According to moral law, ‘Yes’ would the right answer.
All sinners must die. But Jesus told us; You ‘…should not perish but have eternal life. … the world through Him might be saved .’(John 3:16, 17)
And even Jesus said to a woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. “Woman, Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”(John 8:11) and blind man, paralyzed and even leprosy were healed by Jesus without any medications or natural therapies.
Didn’t Jesus break the natural and moral law?
No, He didn’t. There was a higher law. Some laws usually subject to the higher law.
We have discussed this in our class already.
The airplane can fly against the law of gravity, and birds can fly.
Because, they know how to use another law that is higher than the law of gravity.
How did Jesus make those miracles and forgiveness for sinners?
He knows another law?
He has more powerful law?
He has paid for the wonderful law of love.
With His faith, hope and His love,
He has accomplished the wonderful plan of salvation.
Let’s give thanks to Jesus
Let’s lift our praise on high and give glory to God
Does God practice self-control or is He totally spontaneous? Is self control only necessary for sinful beings?
The sun sets in just over two hours, and there are two significant things I want to accomplish before that happens. First, I want to finish my response for Dr. Hannah’s blog. There was so much good stuff that happened in class this week, I really want to talk about it, and also, we’re supposed to post things by Friday. So I’m really pushing it here. But I also want to, nay, need to, clean my kitchen. It’s the same thing every week. I am going to get things done early this week. I’ll do my post by Thursday and clean the house first thing in the morning. So I’m not worried or stressed out before Sabbath. The character traits I MOST admire in people is disciple and self-control, yet remain the most elusive to me. You know the kind of self-control I’m talking about? Like, people who don’t need to study the night before an exam because they’ve been studying all semester long. (Dr. Hanna, as you read this, please don’t change alter your opinion of me for the worse…) I’m sure there are some people like that even in our class…how do you do it? I look at people like that the way most people look at celebrities and athletes. “Wow…what is your secret? Can you sign my day planner please!?”
All that to say, until Dr. Hanna posed some questions about God on Thursday, I hadn’t thought about God using/needing/having self control before. I’m not trying to make any kind of absolute point or interpretation here, this is more a general musing as I roll this around my mind. We know Jesus made time to spend with His Father, He’d go away to quiet places so He could stay connected to the Source. We know that after 40 days in the desert he didn’t let his appetite rule him to make the stones to bread. We know that he walked a lot. We know that he often ate at people’s houses but always made time to visit and talk. He wasn’t an eat and run kind of guy. Through all this, it somehow didn’t occur that maybe once, He wanted to take a second helping of the honey barley cakes cause they were so tasty, but said no because it would have been gluttony. He might have once wanted to sleep in an extra hour instead of going for his morning devotional walk, but He didn’t because nothing was more important to Him than time with his Father. The thing is, he would have had to use and develop self-control and self-discipline. Those are traits that are of God, traits that reflect him.
So, when I strive to be more self disciplined and self controlled, I need to stop desiring it because I want it, but, I need to change my focus so that I desire it because I want to be more like Jesus. So if God uses self-control, and I am created in His image, then I to can both use it and develop it. It all comes down to making the top priority Him, and saying no to certain things becomes easy. It will become easier for me to get things done before Sabbath, so I can start it early and really enjoy the time I get to spend with the God I want to be more like.
I agree with Myong. It is illogical to think that Jesus broke laws of nature by walking on water or raising a dead person. We may not understand HOW He did it, but since He is the one who created the universe and made up the laws of nature it seems perfectly reasonable that he knows more about them than we do.
Massiel, loved what you said at the end of your thought. To become more like Jesus. So many times we focus on the outward stuff and think that if can't just get control of what we do all will be good. If we would just simply want to be like Jesus and do our part in becoming like him because we like what we see all the outside stuff would take care of itself. Great thoughts everyone. It has been fun reading all your comments as we each struggle with what we are learning in class.
I have an article posted by Massiel David,and i like the point she stated in the middle of her article that we need to update the way we present our adventist beliefs more particulary to the science world. it is true that the old presentation methods may not meet successfully the scientific world and even other religiosties.
I have read the article posted by Rodrigo and i appreciate the conclusion part of it where he stated that inorder to know God and His work it is paramount that we become like him-on the same i will also add that though we become like Him in this present which Paul calls evil,we cannot fully understgand Him and His works-it is ascience that will take us the endless period of eternity.
Fred Okemwa.
THST 520 Works of God.
Reflection paper 2.
The on going debate on predestination is quite mind stretching. The question, does God make informed decisions? Is not really such a simple to give it” yes” or” no” answer. The yes answer may imply that for God to make informed decisions He must learn to obtain the information in order to be informed. If this is the case then God’s omniscience-the all knowing ability of God is brought to question. If God is all knowing does He need data to make informed decisions? On the other hand the” no” answer may imply that He does not-still there is a problem with this answer also due to the fact that God created man with the ability to make informed decisions. The argument will be if God can create a person who can be able to make informed decisions then He Himself must of the same.
According to Dr.Hanna, he says that in predestination, the informed decisions of God are based on His foreknowledge, is it in predestination only? What about other orders of salvation? The question is really difficult to address. In the account given in the book of Genesis chapter 19 indicates temporal evidence that for God to make decisions He ought to investigate. The book of Daniel chapter seven, the books that are mentioned in verse nine may indicate the same thing also. Other questions that arise on my mind on the same issue include: if God makes informed decisions based on his foreknowledge, His is decisions an on going process or because He foreknew He fixed them right back at the beginning.
While it is important to confess that these issues can burst out the brain it is also important to acknowledge that the class professor is doing the best to enable us to understand these issues.
Quigley Morris
Class discussion: again I am thinking Predestination
I am still wounded by the above term in its settled formed, and what appeared to be the correct explanation. To me there are areas that are not covered or it is betted to say I do not agree with its conclusion. Predestination should not be measure by my opinion or me cornered by my intelligence. While the word is simple but the definition creates all kinds of thoughts in my head.
The Webster’s third new international dictionary says predestination is the theological doctrine that all events throughout eternity have been foreordained by divine decree or purpose. Now this is what I call a good face value explanation of a word. If I am to understand what the dictionary is saying it means that we are all posted to a spot regardless of Jesus’ influence in our lives. It is one thing to understand the knowledge imply here, and another the understanding of the character of God.
It continued to explained that the foreordination by God of each individual’s ultimate destiny particularly to eternal life. I believe that God predestined all who he knew would accept his salvation to be conformed to the image of his son. And added to that in Eph 1:4 Paul said that God made provision that sinners should be holy and without blame before the creation of this world and the entrance of sin.
This means to me that no one is predestine to be saved or lost. But Christ made provision for us to stand above the reproach of the enemy. There is some thing I want to say I just cannot put it out. I will get the words some time I know I will. Predestination to me is, I can be save if I want to; I must be save if I want to. Notice I did not say “if I have to” because this could be consider a negative in the present of the sacrifice that Christ have made. Because we cannot run away from the fact that there is a choice in the matter; and because there is a choice to be made then that will over ride the thought that some is predestinated to be saved.
God’s desire is that all men would be saved and that he is not willing that any should perish. None are excluded from the benefits of salvation and he has no pleasure in the death of the wicked. So here is my deal on the subject; at the cross Christ died for humanity; at that point he defeated the devil and paid the price for man’s salvation. When that was completed man was given the choice of life or death. But the fact is life is available to all. We cannot pay the price it was paid for us so we are predestined because Christ did all that we had to do to get there. The fact is there is nothing I can do that is worth taking me there; and there is nothing I will do that can stop me from getting there. Because at the cross when Christ said it is finish; in these words He also meant that you are save.
Response to Roshelle,
When we talk about the knowledge of evil by the part of God, I think we have a misunderstanding of the concept of knowing. For me to know that to put the hand on the fire is bad because it will burn me, I don not need to put my hand on fire, but by just listening those who put, I trust and see that the information is trustworthy. But with God there was no one telling Him before sin happen that it was bad. So…I think that we can learn things by contrast, by know good we know evil. Satan fell in the problem of EXPERIENCING to know. I don think we need to experiment everything to know thinks. This is what atheist science do and they are wrong….
I don’t know from where it came the idea that in order to create something the Creator have to be like it. “The argument will be if God can create a person who can be able to make informed decisions then He Himself must of the same.” We can create a robot, or a Television but we don not need to be like it. God can create finite being be He does not need to be infinite. He created the ability to sin, and actually sin happened, but He Himself never sin. So it is better not to be so sure about ideas that the Bible do not say and that may come to a absurd conclusion…Another thing it is that the Bible does support the idea that God need to investigate like us to know thinks based on Daniel (and Revelation) and on Gn.19. God knew about the destruction of Sodom as God knows our fate in the judgment. He does not need to investigate books to know us (look Ps.139, Jr.1)
Response to Dennis (7. 14. 09)
Dennis, I am not really sure if the concept of foreknowledge of God is so limited to affirm that He does not MAKES the future happen. The Bible presents that His foreknowledge is Active as Passive. In Daniel we see God raising kings and putting out Kings by His actions. So I think we need I more balanced and Bible based arguments… [19.jul]
correcting my last comment..."God can create finite being be He does not need to be INFINITE." I mean to say FINITE...
Some valuable discussion has arisen from my proposal that: if God created us to be free and to make informed decisions, then God is free and makes informed decisions. As has been pointed out by some participants, there is a clear distinction between the Creator and the creation. The Creator is not created as is his creation. Also, the Creator is not finite as is his creation.
I agree with these comments wholeheartedly. At the same time, the finite creation does reflect the glory of the Creator. In addition, the Creator can and did become incarnate in the finite creation to reveal the truth about God in terms that can be understood within the creation. Where we are limited as creatures, God is unlimited as Creator.
We do not understand fully the things of God. But if, as God’s creation, we view ourselves as free; and if we view freedom as superior to lack of freedom; surely it is reasonable to view God as infinitely free because he has uncreated freedom. Similarly, if, we can make informed decisions which we view as superior to uninformed decisions; surely it is reasonable to view God as able to make informed decisions.
A further statement may be needed with regard to the delicate question of the ability of the Creator and created beings to freely choose between righteousness and sin. My proposal is that there is no righteousness or sin without freedom. God is not righteous because he lacks freedom. Rather, God always uses his freedom in righteous ways.
Ultimately, however, the question is not about what I think is reasonable, but about what has been revealed in Scripture. Has not God been revealed as omniscient/all knowing (1 Jn 3:20) and therefore as informed? Has not God revealed himself as having “a free spirit” (Ps 51:12). Does not the righteousness of God involve freedom from sin (Rom 6:18, 20, 22). Is not the law of freedom (Jms 1:25; 2:12) a transcript of God’s character?
Dr Hanna,
Thank you so much for your posting. It has made me to reflect on my theses paper and to make some changes.
Quigley,
This is a topic that all of us in this class will continue to reflect after the summer is ended. Thank you for bringing it up.
Fa’asoa M. Fa’asoa
07.18.2009
In Response to: Roshelle and Massiel
Roshelle: “The concentration it has taken in attempting to understand the concepts of Foreknowledge and Predestination has left me with a mind full of goo at the end of everyday…”
I just had to comment on your blog with this particular statement in it. Hilarious yet so true; I wasn’t sure just how to express, in words-how I was feeling after class this past week until I read your comment. I think I’m still whirling from its humorously almost satirical and somewhat seemingly burlesque connotations, though you may not have meant it at such.
Personally, its’ beginning to feel like trying to lick your way through a chocolate swirl peanut sprinkled covered waffle cone with an extra double layer of salivating succulent fudge surprise in its middle; the deeper we lick the better it gets.
Although when we do get there, the fudge is so (as we put it in our Hawaiian/Samoan tongue) ONOLICIOUS COW COW-one can’t help but experience-long after the cone is devoured, the cool salivating flavor of what’s left in one’s mouth.
The deep things of our CREATOR are INDEED Deep but I love it, every succulent and juicy aspect of it that we can discuss in class. I may not-admittedly- completely understand it; still, it creates within my bowels, as the old King James Bible would say, a deeper hunger and thirst for divine concepts beyond which my finite mind can but faintly comprehend.
Massiel: “Does God practice self-control or is He totally spontaneous? Is self control only necessary for sinful beings?”
After reading your blog on-well I’ve quoted it above-I found five key points that I’d like to chance and muse a thought on-not trying to interpret or solve anything particularly just simply musing. Here goes.
#1. “God practice self-control or is He totally spontaneous?”
Reply: “With his own merits, Christ has bridged the gulf which sin had made, so that the ministering angels can hold communion with man. Christ connects fallen man in his weakness and helplessness with the Source of infinite power.” STEPS TO CHRIST pg. 20
I think it obvious that our CREATOR by sending His One and only precious and unique SON to reconnect us to HIMSELF is absolutely solid evidence of HIS Self control don’t you think? Otherwise, we would all vanish from the face of our planet.
#2. “The character traits I MOST admire in people is disciple and self-control, yet remain the most elusive to me.”
Reply: I’m certain that there are many traits these same people see in you that they would like to trade for? LOL...There are many factors involved in the process that these people may have had to go through to develop these, perhaps some not so much, still they all have processes and so do you…be patient with yourself as GOD is.
#3. “people who don’t need to study the night before an exam because they’ve been studying all semester long.”
Reply: I suppose that while this may be the case for the rare and far between, most of us come to academia with varying situations which calls for prioritizing what is most important, even above school at times. We aren’t all molded in the same pot so allowing one self some space may be a good thing in this regard…LOL
#4. “please don’t change alter your opinion of me for the worse…) I’m sure there are some people like that even in our class…”
While I think I may understand the backdrop of your concern, worrying about what people think of who we are or what our flaws might be might possibly cause a myocardio infarction, a CORONARY THROMBOSIS or worse yet, a intracranial hemorrhage so chill…lol.
#5. “Jesus made time to spend with His Father, He’d go away to quiet places so He could stay connected to the Source.”
Reply: In my humble opinion, I think that of all the thoughts you’ve mentioned, though they all their places, this by far is KEY to unlocking the storehouse of wisdom in what to do with all other situations (seemingly impossible) in our lives.
Fa’asoa M. Fa’asoa
07.18.2009
In Response to: Dr. Hanna’s Post
After reading so many of the recent posts on what was discussed in class, i.e. God’s Foreknowledge, Predestination etc. and the plethora of responses on the issue…a question came to me, and that is: Is it possible that perhaps one of the core issues amongst my classmates on these discussions has more to do with comprehension of the English language and it’s usage via our class focus than the actual issues themselves?
Perhaps I’m missing the point as well, but from having observed various reflections from those who are not of the American Culture, by that I mean not born in the United States nor raised here or lived here long enough to understand the depth of the American English language to be able to properly explore their thoughts in and out of class and on your blog.
If I’m off my rocker, please ignore this comment or even delete it. Meanwhile, thank you for clarifying your thoughts once again on the given issues, even though I personally felt that you did a fine job in class…which has still left my mind filled with GOO as one young lady put it.
As we discussed the whole Idea of how does God know something I found myself being mentally forced into an either or, situation. If we are to say that God must actively search out knowledge then we inadvertently suggest that for one he must have at one point had no knowledge, wither the present future or past. Like a child he had to learn to talk, walk and love. Every created being was an experiment to see what would happen since God would not know.
At the same time If we say that God learned passively we fall into the dark side of the same coin. Saying that God had a divine version of Osmosis also leads to a God who needs creation in order to to have knowledge.
Iam suggesting a third possibility, that God is the source of Knowledge. God has no need to learn or aquire knowledge since all that can be know flows from the Cosmos His creation. If God created all that can be known then all that can be known finds it's origin in God
We established in class that when it comes to the future God knows both what's going to happen and possibility. If so then God already understands and knows the precise happenings that can and does occur. There's no need to get knowledge by force or osmosis
I really feel that the desire to understand God in terms of human ability can lead to rather limiting views of God. and I honestly feel this is one of those cases
Just a response to Ryan's comment about God knowing Evil. In reality what is evil? If you believe that Evil is an opposing force against good then yeah how can God know both good and evil intimately, however if you see evil as only revealed as a contrast dependent on it's opposition to God's goodness. To make myself clear it's like what many scientist are now saying about heat. That there's no such thing really as heat only increases or decreases of cold. Evil is only evil in Rebellion without Righteousness there would be no way to know what evil is.
THE RELATION OF WORDS AND GOD
Response to FA’SOA (that was posted in 7.19.09)
It is true Fa’soa that some more than others have struggle with words to express thoughts. Especially, if those thoughts are related to a being that is beyond language. This make us thinks about the relation between language and thought. Questions in this subject comes to my mind like, Can one language express thought better than other language? Questions like this have stir up many discussion in the field of linguistics and hermeneutics that I think is valid for us to understand revelation.
THE RELATION OF WORDS AND GOD
Isn’t interesting that John (or the Spirit if you want) chose WORD (logos) to describe God the Son? In Portuguese the word translated from logos is VERB. If I remember well the things I have read in the past (please if someone knows better please correct me) the logos in greek philosophy have the main idea of the active principle of the universe associated with the arche (the first thing, the beginning, the origin).
In the first verse of John, he set the two basic principles of greek cosmology, arche and logos. “In the beginning (arche) the Word (logos)”. John as a philosopher of Christ sees the relation between the primordial element of all (arche) with the reason of action and existence (logos). What is explicit tough in John cosmology is that both elements are the same in one being, Jesus Christ. And this union was not clear (at least if I remember right) in the greeks. But for John was clear in the creation, because this is the theme that binds all things together.
In Genesis 1:1 is presented “In the beginning (arche or bereshit) God created” all. It is clear in Christian thought from Paul and John that the Creator was Jesus (Col.1:15 and John 1:2,3). Jesus was the one who spoke and things were done (Ps.33:6-9). But how this relate with the concept of arche (beginning)? The key to the idea is found in Hebrew theology of Proverbs 8 in relation to the creation account. To the rabis, the beginning of all things, the origin of the universe was the Wisdom (or you can call the logos) of God. And this Wisdom is from the times of eternity with God “before the works of old” (v.22).
That logos is a concept that embraces knowledge, reason, action, verb, can be seen in the relation of it to the creation of things in Aristotle and stoic philosophy. In the Bible too. What John is saying is that the Wisdom of God who created all things (Pv.8:25-29), the beginning (bereshit) of creation, is Jesus Christ. And what is amazing in his cosmology is that this principle of created thing walked with him some years before. The principle of existence, the self-existent Creator became creation, had a started.
This is just mind blowing for the greeks to grasp. And for me too. God, the source of everything become one like me, creation. And this is the beauty of the Bible cosmology is that the principle of creation can be know by the created being in a simple way of a man. A carpenter son of Nazareth, who healed, taught, forgave, smiled and cry with the creation. If the logos or arche of the greek can not be known, I do not know. But the logos and arche of the Bible can be know for sure, independently of my limitations. Not only by logos (word or wisdom) but by action can I know my God.
Subject: Doctrine of God
Salvation from wrath cannot be ignored as a non biblical concept of the way a loving and kind God operates. The wrath of God is not vindictive hence it should not be understood as human wrath that is both irrational and out of control. The imperfections associated with human wrath or even righteous indignation, cannot come to be understood as similar to the wrath of a loving, sinless and perfect God. Despite this fact God does get Angry. If we preach the wrath of God, we are sometimes accused of representing God as a Being of fitful passion and vindictive fury. In other words, we are accused of misrepresenting the character of God. The God of the Bible is not subject to sudden and irrational fits of anger. His wrath is His settled indignation against sin. It as ‘a burning zeal for the right coupled with a perfect hatred for everything that is evil’. God has made no attempt to conceal the fact of His wrath. He is not ashamed to make it known that vengeance and fury belong unto Him. His own challenge is, "See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no god with Me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal; neither is there any that can deliver out of My hand. For I lift up My hand to heaven, and say, I live forever, when I sharpen My glittering sword, and Mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to Mine enemies, and will reward them that hate Me" (Deut. 32:39-41). The wrath of God is as much a Divine perfection as is His faithfulness, power, or mercy. It is true that in the bible especially the psalms and some prophets portrayed God as calamity and disasters as direct results of sin but it is also evident that God gets angry and the salvation of sinful humanity is linked to the actual deliverance from God’s wrath. It is true to say though, that His wrath against evil will demonstrate His righteousness. Even in His wrath, God remembers mercy. God demonstrates His mercy in wrath by never pouring out His wrath without warning. He tried to warn Sodom and Gomorrah through Abraham. He warned Noah's world through the preaching of Noah for 120 years. He sent both Jonah and Nahum to warn the pagan city of Nineveh. The wrath of God is the judgment poured out on those who have rejected Jesus Christ and His righteousness. Some claim that there is no such thing as God's wrath others claim it is only futuristic and has never been experienced in history.
1Thess.1:10,clearly implies that Paul hoped in the Lord’s return. In the phrase “from the coming wrath” the word translated “from” means that Christians are kept from as well as taken out of it. Christians will be kept away from God’s wrath, and delivered safely through it, which amounts to their Salvation. God’s wrath is an active element in the Salvation of Sinners and this is essential to every believer. It resonates with me because I was able to clearly link the fact that God does get angry and we as erring human beings will have to fully understand the way God’s wrath operates to be able to adequately explain his love to those who are indifferent to the way God works in delivering us from sin. The wrath of God is really a comfort. There is a very important question after all of this that is; do we really want a God who has no wrath? So that all of these atrocities of Earth like the Holocaust and all the many injustices and man’s inhumanity to man, kind of slide by and are let off the hook? The wrath of God means that sin, abject evil, injustice, cruelty, all of these things will not be a part of eternity. They will be completely destroyed one day.
Fred Okemwa.
To be realistic, the issues of God’s foreknowledge and predestination which are among the orders of salvation as Paul suggests in Romans 8:29-30 have really given me a hell of time to understand what they really mean. The Monday lecture on the same issues and the link between faith, love and hope was really fascinating. Though deeper in understanding in the human analogical language, I acknowledge the lengthy explanatory lecture on the same by Dr. Hanna that has at least shed some light on how to understand the connection between the two terms in the light of God’s works. While the pathway is seemingly becoming clear, it is important for the scholars in the works of God class I inclusive to come up with the model of expressing these issues in ways that can penetrate the post modern mind
Roshelle Brenneise
THST520 – The Works of God
July 23, 2009
Reflection Paper #3
This week continued our discussion regarding Foreknowledge and Predestination. It is starting to sink in, but it has been difficult replacing the old information.
I appreciated the addition of Faith, Hope, and Love in the FK, P, C, J, G model. For me, the idea that God has faith makes perfect sense. It is not so much that He has to have faith in order to give it as a gift to me, although that is reasonable, but that he has faith (confidence) that his plan of salvation is going to finally bring the end of sin, he has faith (confidence) in the sacrifice of Christ for the human race, and he has faith (confidence) that some will choose salvation rather than separation. I think the problem lies in the fact that we understand faith only from a perspective of sin and that we think of is as some ethereal force rather than an internal reality.
The discussion of Monergy and Synergy this week has also been quite interesting. This one has not been so difficult for me to wrestle with and I feel that I have a pretty good handle on the concept. Bottom line is that we can do nothing apart from God. Every good impulse, every pure and noble act, is simply the working of the Holy Spirit and our response to that work. I take that Bible very seriously when it tells me that all my good deeds are like filthy rags. I am nothing apart from the Holy Spirits work in me. That gives me great faith (confidence) in God to know that I am nothing and I have nothing to offer Him, but He loves me so much that He gives me everything I need to be what He wants me to be. All I have to do is reach and take it.
Have you thought it that way before? The big problem that we as Adventist have is the partial understanding of the scriptures. The presentation today in class about the sanctification and the glorification was nice and ideal. I personally had thought of Abraham as a man might in faith for God to call him out of his homestead into the unknown land but it was clear today that his faith was not such great but the willingness to start and proceed on the journey was the factor behind that qualified him to be the father of the nations.
It was interesting to note that sanctification is journey that will continue and that it will never get static at any point in life till the second coming when all those who have experienced the true sanctification shall enter into the final stage of salvation called glorification which shall stretch throughout eternity.
I do appreciate the fact that today God will require more from us than in Abraham, why? Because we have received more than Abraham did. To whom much has been given much shall be expected from him.
The latter rain point, usually it has been associated with the time of Jacob’s time of trouble when the true believers will be given more strength to go through the persecution period, but it was a good reminder that it has been falling throughout the salvation history. If you have not experienced it get out your umbrella. I appreciate these concepts.
Today's class discussion was great - fantastic!! An even not so close reading of scripture leaves you understanding that most of the Bible "heros" we so admire, were not so much "pillars of integrity" as they were willing to get up and start movin' down the road. It gives me great courage that God chose to use and work through indviduals with less then shiny characters - that means there is hope for me!!!! What an awesome reminder for the journey - just keep movin' down the road.....
There is a clear distinction between the Creator and the creation. The Creator is not created as is his creation. Also, the Creator is not finite as is his creation. The creator is the source of life for the creature. And He is active in sharing life in its fullness with His creatures. At the same time, the finite creation does reflect the glory of the Creator. In addition, the Creator can and did become incarnate in the finite creation to reveal the truth about God in terms that can be understood within the creation. The thinking of man ran parallel to the thinking of God. But there is always a difference: God was Creator, man creature. God is unlimited in his knowledge. Man is limited. God is omniscient. He grasps all things temporally and spatially in one all encompassing glances. Man learns successively, and labors at it in his narrow consciousness. God is omnipresent. He penetrates all things actively and essentially, while man cannot penetrate nature and comes into contact with the outside world only with his sensory organs. Yet man’s knowledge is a copy of God’s knowledge. It could never have happened that a result of human investigation, a conclusion or a judgment, would have contradicted God’s knowledge. Above all, the ethical principles according to which human thinking came to fruition were in complete harmony with God’s principles. God made man upright, says the Preacher (7:29). Two things illustrate how easily, certainly, and intuitively Adam’s knowledge came to fruition, without much of the cumbersome apparatus of observing, comparing, reflecting, abstracting, combining, perceiving, concluding, judging, etc. One, he gave the animals names expressing their innermost being in a certain sense on the spur of the moment. . And just as God wanted to bless his creatures, so also man was to enjoy a blessed inner satisfaction in tending the garden put under his care. Man was bound most closely to his Creator by this harmony. He could cultivate blessed communion with God. No chasm separated them. On the contrary, man had an understanding of God’s thoughts, could easily examine God’s ideas, and therefore felt happy in God’s presence. He took part in God’s blessedness. He was bound with God by exactly the same way of looking at things and by the closest sharing of interests. As our point of departure for viewing the image we can take the fact that the image is lost, but is renewed in Christians. What takes place in Christians as the new creation of the Holy Spirit belongs to the image. On the other hand, what characterizes the mindset of natural man is the opposite of the image.
Cheese. Cheese. Cheese.
I want to compliment Dr. Hanna for his use of Scripture and keen effort to be inclusive in his statements of truth. I find his lectures refreshing in comparison to Gunton's "Act and Being!" For that reason I've chose to comment on Hanna's recent lectures.
The concepts of monergy and synergy may be the theoretical framework many of us need to see "both sides" of many debates. Since we were talking about cheeese today let's take dies as an example. There are those who reject much of the dietery principles many Adventist practice on the grounds that diet will not save us. This is utterly and completely true. But, there are also those who have a rather strict approach to diet. They believe there is a correlation between what we eat and our minds, thus, our relationship with God as well.
Many in both of the previous "camps" like to throw stones at the other. But if we recognize that the first camp (diet doesn't save us) falls more under the catagory of monergy and the second camp (what we eat affects our relationship with God) falls more under the catagory of synergy, maybe we would have less argueing and more embracing from both "sides!"
The danger still lurks that we will emphasize monergy or synergy on any given topic, providing the conclusions suit us. Still, recognizing both these elements forces us to look at a bigger picture, like with diet. Personally, in class today the conversation seemed to me to be pointing fingers at those we deem as being "saved by diet." There may be those people out there. Are there not also those out there who are deaf to the possibility that God would have them change their diet?
For the record, I ate some cheese this week. But I don't laugh at those who didn't. I believe they have something to offer me, to teach me about God. I hope this "vaguely vegan" has something to offer them to. I hope we all help each other be monergistically dependent and synergistically growing.
Ryan Hablitzel
ID #138672
The presentation on reaching post moderns without compromising doctrine captured my attention. Typically, individuals who are trying to reach the postmodern compromise in order to stay "relevant." The other extreme is when the message is given in a stale package that is no longer relevant.
I believe that the Seventh-day Adventist message is very relevant to the postmodern. A Seventh-day Adventist lifestyle is actually cutting edge and hip. Healthy living, exercise outdoors, non combatant, philosophizing for ultimate truth / conspiracy theory, and relationship centered activities are all popular in the modern world. All we have to do is make our message relevant to a changing world. I think a great way to do this (as was advocated by the presenter) is to allow people to touch and see what Advetnistim is all about. Experience it, don't just talk about it. Experience Sabbath rest, experience healthy living, experience God centered worship, and experience the transformation from evil to good.
I have met very few Adventists who really practice what they preach. One such gentleman made a big impact on me. The guy was as conservative as they get, but he was super relevant. He had totally died to self. He was on a total God mission. We were walking in down town Sacramento when he disappeared across the street to talk to a hardcore gangster. All he did was exchange a few sincere words and hand the guy a steps to Christ. The look on the gangsters face totally changed and it was almost as if a new light came over him. I don't think the approach was the key; it was the Spirit filled individual.
The SDA message will go forth with power when we start living it (experiencing it). When we quit making excuses and give a total sacrifice people will see it. Many SDA's have a tendency to profess truth, but dabble with error on a daily basis. What would happen if we started living what we preached holding nothing back? When will we become that peculiar people in a good sense of the term?
Taste and see that the Lord is good.
Quigley Morris
Paper #4
Works of God
07/27/09
All in all
This phrase has been in class all summer, and it has caused me some great concern so I am trying to explain what I understand in light of this three words. It seems to me Paul enjoyed using them because they fulfilled a desired that he share throughout his writing. I believe that this is the energy working on the planet.on the behalf of God
To explain what I am saying; every aspects of life is controlled by God. The movement of the ocean, the animals in the forest, the growth of every plant and the entire human race; we must understand that there is God the father, son, and Spirit working together to get planet in operation. Mean while the devil is just waiting to get a chance to do his bit too.
But the God head work as one; what the Father does the Son and Spirit knows or I think it is best to say that they work together. We see that example in creation when God said let us make man in our own image. From this point of view we can say all in all means that the Father Son and Holy Spirit working all in one in us and for us.
Paul has divided them to help us understand what he is saying; he said that the father is the originator and sustainer of all life. And he has provided for the effectual accomplishment of the work of the church. The Spirit now works with us now to guide and motivate us to achieve the goals that God has set for us. All the gifts that God has given us it is not to praise our selves but it is to do the work of God. The spirit will guide us on how we are supposes to use our gifts.
When Jesus was leaving his disciples he told the disappointed men that I will send you another comforter to guide you in all things. And this was realized through the Holy Spirit. And he is still here with us to day. All in all means as the Holy Spirit is ministering to us the father is also ministering to us. In his work he is also reflecting the Son’s character, to me the first part here is as the Spirit works the working of the father and Son is also seen.
While the son was here he too reflected the Glory of his father, it was not about Him, but the one who sent him. His work was to point men to his Hather, now the Spirit through the Son is pointing man to the Father and the Spirit is also pointing man to the Father. I am understanding the phrase all in all stands to point man to the work of the God head. All proceed from one God one Lord one Spirit that is from the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; and they are all in all.
THE RELATION OF WORDS AND GOD (Part II)
The author of the book we have been reading (Act and being by Gunton) set a relation very interesting about action and knowledge of being. The actions of God is set in His word. The Scriptures register the acts of God in the past, so today we can “know” who God is.
The works of God is related in some Psalms as the reason of knowing Him and worshiping Him. The works of God is also taught by Asaph in Psalm 78 as reason to remind his nation of true adoration. In v.5 and v.7 he seems to refers to Dt.11:18 where God said to Israel to remember His commandments and works as a protection against false gods or idols. And during the rest of the Psalm the works of God from Egypt to David is remembered. Asaph think that by remembering God’s works people would keep His commandments (v.8).
In opposite to the true God, the idol is lifeless and cannot remember. This act of remembrance is worthy of notice, because it is related to a trend of subjects in the Bible. It is related to the Sabbath, as the sign of “Remember”. The minds of man should be directed to the acts of God in the past, especially the creation.
This is not only a Bible subject. In various parts of the world, religion relates remembrance to god’s illumination. The book Myth and Reality of Mircea Eliade is a great book about this, specially chapter 7. He says that to remember is important because remembrance of the origin brings life, and in contrast forgetting is death. Buddhism see remembrance, meditation, on past life is wisdom and enlightenment. And Buda is the unlighted one because he reached the all knowing stage of life.
On ancient Greece, amnesia is related to death also. This will influence the origin of greek philosophy, the search of the arche (see my last post about arche and John’s Gospel). But in Greek mythology, to forget is good, not bad, because men gets out of this world reality and goes into the ideal world. So Letes (the god of forgetfulness) abolish life and makes the action of forgetting necessary to go to eternal reality of ideal world.
But there were some philosopher in Greece who thought that remembering is something good. They were interested in history. What count is to remember the past until its origin. This sounds like the Bible! Plato tries to unify both of these concepts and says that humans need to remember the past to go to the ideal world.
All this concept of remembrance and forgetfulness is important because this will set a base to the kind of historiography we accept. If we believe that the acts of the past have no importance whatsoever with our acts now, we don’t need history. But if we see some aspect of redemption on history, we should consider it more. This is what God told Moses to teach the Israelites. “Remember my acts”.
The Holy Scriptures present God as the creator of this world. He created this world out of nothing (Gen 1:1). Nothing throughout the wide external of nature existed from eternity, originated by chance or from the skill of any inferior agent, but the whole universe was created by the creative power of God. “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” (Gen 1:1).
Therefore humans are part of the works of God. The Lord declared this in the scripture: “And God said, let us make man in our own image after our own likeness” (Gen 1:26). Being created in the image of God presupposes that humanity possessed the communicable attribute of God.
Man, the only creature of all God's creatures, has a spirit or God-consciousness, that is, a capacity for knowing God and holding spiritual communion with Him through prayer, praise, and worship. Before the fall, man had inborn moral awareness of good and evil, or conscience (Genesis chapter 2). Man was made not only negatively innocent (that is, without sin), but positively holy, otherwise Adam could not have had communion with God, who cannot look upon iniquity (Habakkuk 1:13). This is further confirmed by Genesis 1:31, when God affirms that everything He had made (including man) was 'very good', which would not have been true if man had been morally imperfect. God's social nature and intrinsic love is seen in the doctrine of the Trinity. God, who is love, created man with a social nature and a need for love. The statement in Genesis 3:8 that 'they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day' suggests that Adam and Eve initially enjoyed fellowship and communion with God, perhaps on a daily basis. God also provided for human fellowship and love in a very special and intimate way.
But due to the fall, humanity could not hold free communion and fellowship with God. For this reason God had to act to restore that communion with humanity. Thus, a plan of salvation in which humanity would be restored into the image of God was promised to Adam and Eve (Gen 3:15).
Act & Being is a deep read. I'm especially interested in the authors assertion that we must acknowledge the trinity in order to obtain any real basis for knowing what God would have us know about Himself.
For instance, in Revelation 1:1 it is declared, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave Him..." It is interesting to me that God gave Christ a revelation "of Christ." What does this mean?
Here I admittedly enter the world of speculation, at least possibly. None-the-less, the statement implies that God the Father knows things God the Christ doesn't. We don't have much of an issue with this, at least not on the surface. Only God the Father knows the "day" of the return, for instance. But, do we not find ourselves pushed to another dellima to consider that God may know something about Christ that Christ doesn't know? Could the book of Revelation be revelatory for Christ, in some way, as well?
Another interesting aspect of the trinity is Christ dependence on the Holy Spirit. He told his disciples it is for their benefit that He was leaving and would send the "Helper." This implies that the Holy Spirit would do something Christ would not do, either by limitation or choice.
I believe it is dangerous to define too closely how and where the individuals of the Godhead are "limited" or, maybe I should say, "distinct." At the same time it may be dangerous not to a tleast acknowledge these possibilities to help explain some of the issues of foreknowledge. Could it be that each of the Godhead relates differently to this concept? I don't know for sure. These are only thoughts.
Roshelle Brenneise
THST520 – The Works of God
July 28, 2009
Reflection Paper #4
Thank you to all the “guest professors”. All the subjects were deep and thought provoking. I hope one day to read your finished works in a theological journal. I have no doubt that each one of you will be a blessing in whatever ways God chooses to use you.
What a great class discussion today!!! As a younger person, I was dissatisfied with the projected view of a harsh God and so when the “grace, grace, grace” movement started it looked pretty inviting. Two events changed that for me. As I mentioned in class, my friend and I listed each argument and presented them before God with an attitude of “we don’t care one way or the other, we just want to know YOUR truth regarding these arguments”. With speed that boggled our minds, each one of the 10 arguments was laid in the dust. The second, and equally profound, event was when I read Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s Cost of Discipleship. When I read his definitions of cheap grace and costly grace I was forever changed. That book, probably more then any other (except the Bible) has shaped me and provided a foundation for every subsequent belief.
Thank you Dr. Hanna for your even-handedness and your dedication to the holistic view of the Bible and your equally passionate entreaty to us to view the Bible holistically. I have been witness to the incredible damage the one sided view can have on people and congregations, so I encourage you all to remember “and/both” and teach your congregations “and/both”, so that we can all begin to see the deeper and wider things of God. I suspect that the either/or approach has severely limited our capacity to understand the things that God has revealed to us about Himself.
Peace to you all and I hope you enjoy your Seminary experience as much as I have enjoyed mine. I am a better person and I am blessed beyond measure because of my experience here.
The discussion on Adventist dispensationalism was of great interest to me on a very personal level. I know it was only at the end of our discussion last week but I believe our church is really suffering with this ideology. We teach that the one of the works of the last day church is prophecy and we expect prophets to be among us. However when we teach the topic were quick to say that EGW is the spirit of prophecy that was to be initiated in the last day church. I even heard one person say that we don't need any other prophets we have enough in EGW. That same person though may say that in the last days, in the latter rain our sons and daughters will prophecy as if the gift only manifests itself fully in the end events. But what are we doing between that time between the time of the latter rain and the former rain, what should we be doing? what was the effect of the former rain?
I am beginning to wonder if as SDA's we sit and wait for this latter rain when the soul is not prepared for it, which is what bothers me most about this Adventist dispensationalism it actually sets up a system of failure. If we don't receive the Holy Spirit between the special manifestations of the Holy Spirit how can we receive Him in the coming time. That short discussion this past week really put some questions on my plate and thoughts for preaching in my pulpit.
Jae Hyun Kwon Said...
Second Reflection)
Even though I am so late, I am writing about one topic, being thought importantly, because this topic is concerned about the destiny of human life.
God created the blessing with Adam & Eve on the sixth day of the beginning. It is the fact that Sabbath is the day of blessing, but Our God blessed Adam & Eve earlier than Sabbath.
So I am briefing as follow.
Even though the period of original history (Genesis chapter1-11) is just eleven chapters, this period is corresponding to 1/3 of six thousands of human history. The human history which was begun by blessing has been experiencing many alterations by sin. The serpent and the ground was cursed by incoming of sin (Gen3:14, 17), they experienced the curse according to Cain (Gen 4:11), the curse plunders various abundance and happiness from the human. The earth was filled with the righteousness of God and blessing of God when he finished the creation, but it “was full do violence” (Gen6: 11) because of curse. God nevertheless did not destroy humankind, so that prepared the remnant and gave the blessing continually (Gen7: 23).
Why dose God catch at the blessing instead of the curse in history of evil which has been repeated continuously? The reason is because it is the Work of God.
From the beginning of creation to the creation of Eve, the Word which comes out again and again is “And God said”(Gen1:3,6,9,11,14,20,24,26,29; 2:18). The bible tells us “And God said… it was good.” (Gen1:1, 2, 18, 21, 25), but it tells us “The Lord God said… It is not good” (Gen2:18). God said for the first time “it was very good”(Gen1:31)when He finishes the creation of Eve by man’s ribs.
“God blessed them” (Gen1: 28) when he created Eve at the last time. Of course, it is true that he blessed every living and moving in the Genesis 1: 22,
but “A difference exists between the introductions to the blessings of vs. 22 and 28 that are worth noticing. The blessing for the animals was pronounced regarding them, “God blessed them, saying,” whereas the blessing for the human race was expressed “unto them.” As intelligent beings they were able to listen to God and to receive.(reference by SDABC )
God created the blessing when He made Adam and Eve. If God had not created them in the beginning, the blessing of their aspect could have not existed. The work of God about blessing begins with the creation. So the creative work of God should continue from generation to generation when they turn over the blessing to their offspring by action of it. And the blessing is one of The Works of God to communicate between God and mankind.
I will write the blessing & curse in connection with Dr. Hanna’s lecture next time.
Have a Good day
From Jae Hyun Kwon
Herbert says:
The beauty about the works of God is that even though we in our finiteness have a lot of questions and tend to blame God for certain results of our sinfulness we know that all His acts are centered in love. Good spirited discussions all.
Describe how your perspective on the works of God has changed or
developed during your study this summer.
The class works of God was for me very good. Some issues of communication (God’s act) of heaven is one topic that I like to study. I have learned that communication is all about transformation. “By beholding we become changed” (Patriarch and Prophets 91, Christ Object lessons 355) To behold is to learn, interact, receive and give, to eat and become part of you – this is communication. (Iconofagia,BAITELO). In this way of thinking the content become the channel and the channel the message.
Unifying this information that I had with the works of God class was great. From this perspective of communication as being a work of someone influencing another being I see God’s interaction and works within the cosmos as being the perfect channel and message at the same time. God’s works is all about revelation. What the classes taught me and the book (Act and being) is that in God as with us, actions and being is inseparable.
Now I understand better why God did not told prophet to write formulas in the Bible. Did you realize that the Bible is basically stories…This now I understand, one of the reasons maybe that to know God is to see His actions (like dr.Hanna put beautifully in the Exodus story analogy of “watch and see who I am”). His creative acts causes creative beings. For it is a perfect consequence of His being, His actions.
And since God’s actions of creation and salvation are so broad, and not specific, from this class on I will try to think in a bigger “box” God’s ways of doing things. I will try to think in a more creative way. Thinking holistically, as our teacher emphasized so much and well this summer term, is our challenge.
Because if I want to understand God, I have to act like Him. For to know more of His being I need to act like this Being. I need to behold more, so I can be changed more into Christ likeness. And this is brain stretch because the God of the Bible is big. And even tough I will not have all of Him never, I will always grow with Him, because He is infinite creative. And this is what life is. Finite offer of Satan give me finite enjoyment and growth, because Satan is not so creative. But infinite God gives me infinite possibilities to enjoy and grow.
in the second paragraph I mean to say
ADDING, UNITYING...not unifying
What have you learned about the interpretation of biblical language concerning the works of God? In what ways is biblical language itself a work of God?
Bible interpretation has been to me one of the most fascinating study. I graduate in communication also, and from the knowledge I received studying ways and effect of communication, and as more I study the Bible, I get really impressed of the capacity of God. When I say impressed, it is not that I believe that He can not do everything, but as more I know Him more I feel reverence for His perfect ways, like what David expressed in Psalm 19.
One thing that fascinates me is, the simplicity and complexity in God’s action of communication. To speak with fallen human being is a great work of God. And He speaks in a variety of ways (Heb.1:1-3). He reach every kind of person with His variety of speeches. He manifest Himself in nature, He manifest Himself in miracles; He appears and speak to some; in dream and visions to other; He makes prophets write in different styles like prose, poem, music, prophecy; all to get our attention and to communicate with us.
But as if all that was not sufficient He comes and become like us. He enter in our environment. This is perfect communication, to enter in someone world and life like them. Even tough He is infinite, He spoke our language. And what is the most wonderful for me, is when He makes all this travel from heaven unlimited to our finite cosmos, He come to teach – be humble and serve. His life, his parable, His death and resurrection language taught me (Jo.13:12-30;Phil.2:1-5;Heb.5:4-8) humbleness.
Ellen White put so well in the Desire of Ages (chapter 1), the message of heaven is unselfish love, and Satan’s message is selfishness. This helped me to understand that humbleness is to recognize that I do not know what I think I know, and that my work should be first for the benefit of others rather than for my own pleasure.
And even the principle of analogy teachs me this principle. God’s ways are to higher and His works of God transcends reality. And one way I see this theme of analogical language is that one major difference of our thinking and God’s thinking is that sin goes against God’s language of humbleness and service. So sinner can not understand the language of God (EGW – comment on that on the Desire of Ages chapter 1).
It is true that human language fall short of God’s language, but even perfect being fall short of God’s language because infinite can not be contained in infinite minds. But the paradox in the Bible is that God’s message can be grasped and enter our finite minds. Even tough love is infinite (ICor.13:8), and God is love (IJo.4:8) we can love and know God (IJo.4:7). This is also a work of God, have to be, for it is impossible for even perfect being to be infinite and act like infinite beings. But God through His Spirit give us the ability of love. And love is the language of heaven.
This language is shown in our actions (God’s action in us – synergy) toward other, in service of love and self-sacrifice actions. This is what John teaches in IJo.4 and Ellen White in Desire of Ages chapter 1. So to finish up my answer, God’s language of love is to high for creatures to understand, but through His Spirit (I Cor 2) He make us able to live like Him and grasp His message. For communication is all about transformation. And love is simple and complex. This is the beauty of God’s work in me.
Fred okemwa.
THST 520 Works of God.
Final exam.
7/29/2009.
Q.A.Describe how your perspective on the works of God has changed or progressed this summer?
I wish to start in answering this question by saying that we cannot understand the works of God unless he reveals them to us. By this I mean that in away the works of God are similar to our works and dissimilar in some ways. For instance God is the creator and we are the creatures, in the book of Isaiah 64:8 he is the potter we are the clay. In the book of Isaiah 55:8-9 he says his thought and ways are not our thoughts and ways as the heavens are far from the earth so are his ways and thoughts. In 1st Thessalonians 2:13, we see that there is a similarity between our works and God’s works.
A according to Gunton, he says that the works of God can be best understood from the perspective of Trinitarian approach. By that I mean that the three members of the Godhead are involved. For instance, in the incarnation, john 1:14 God the son is mentioned whereas in the book of Luke 1:35 both the father and the spirit are mentioned in the entire process of incarnation. In the Illumination of the churches, ephesians 1:15-22 the father son and the spirit are mentioned in the process. in the salvation, Romans 1:16-17 the father and the son are mentioned while in the book of 1st thessalonians5:13 the spirit is mentioned as the sanctification agent. In inspiration as well as creation we see the entire three active in doing the work.
I also understood God’s work to be primordial and eschatological. Primordial means the works of God which we cannot contribute anything to it for instance his foreknowledge and predestination. Eschatological means the works of God at the end of time. In a sense I also progressed in understanding that God works monergistically and synergistically. By that I mean that monergy is the aspect of God working alone and synergy is the aspect of God working together with the cosmos and when he does so there is a distinction between what God does and what the cosmos does through the power given to it by God.
B.Mention some relevant bible texts show how your understanding of this text has progressed?
The texts that in particular I have progressed to understand is Romans 8:28-30 which talks about foreknowledge, predestination, calling, justification and glorification. The term predestination as used here, sincerely speaking I could not understand it till it was explained from the freedom approach perspective. Now I can say that I believe in predestination. I also have progressed in understanding by connecting the text in Galatians 5:6-8 which mentions about faith, love and hope with Romans 8:28-30. While love remains the central governor of both foreknowledge, predestination, calling, justification and glorification, it is easy to link justification with faith Romans 5:1-2, Grolification with hope Romans 5:2, calling with love Romans 8:28, foreknowledge with faith and predestination with hope. This linking was fascinating and it helped me a lot in understanding this order of salvation and the work of God as well.
In response to Rodrigo,
You're so fast! already done your final exam...,
As I read yours, this sentense strikes me; "you sinner can not understand the language of God" It is really true. We are blind and deaf absolutely. Sin makes us blind unable to hear. Sin covers every spiritual blessing, even distorted God's pure message. So this exam is the most difficult one, isn't it? ^^ But By the grace of God. We can do it.
In response to Fred okemwa
I am very please your comment which seems like to me was summerized the lectures briefly. To me English is the 2nd language, so I missed a lot. but you helped me to arrange the thoughts. Just the same way where we don't understand God's language. My Korean fellows and I need the works of God in listening, understanding and even reading books, specially it was really difficult book 'Act and Being'
But as we spent time with Dr. Hanna and prayer from friends, we now are much better even if it was only a short session. We are the one who have experienced the most of God's work. Thanks again and God bless.
Mention some relevant Bible texts and show how your understanding of these texts has progressed.
The text of Romans 8 was for me very relevant. I believed that God knew everything before, that we had freedom, because the Bible teaches that, but the way was taught in class made it more clear for me. I now understand more how the foreknowledge of God works for the good of those who are called.
In the past I really did not struggled much with this passage, and maybe this is why I did not stop to think all the implications of foreknowledge related to the plan of salvation. The relation of calling, predestination and foreknowledge is still a hard thought for me. But after the lectures of works of God, I could think more about it. The point that is for me wonderful is that God knows us. (v.29). In Psalm 139, my favorite Psalm, David understand that the foreknowledge of God is a security against evil. Because “all things work together for good to Him that love the Lord”. And no matter depth, hell, heaven angels, the Love action of God always works in our behalf.
The relation of Psalm 139 and Rom.8 is incredible. And I did not realize that until today when I was reflecting on it. Both passages talk about God knowing, God protecting, God’s infinite action unfathomable, the inability of man to hide from God, and other points. The attributes of God in creation and salvation makes man wonder how great God is. And the conclusion of both is nothing compares to loving actions of God.
What I learned from this class is that my view of God have been to narrow. That perspective of the cosmos and God above, I had before, but the class reminded me to realize how great is the God of the Bible. And that humans can not fully grasp Him. This is why the Spirit intercedes for us, for we do not know what to ask God (v.26).
The relation of faith, hope and love with foreknowledge, predestination and calling made it more simple and great for me to understand it. I never thought about the relation of foreknowing with having faith in. This notion of the God of the Bible makes more sense to me now, and still the relation of hope to those who are predestined. Predestination is for those who wait, hope in the future, not in the things visible, but invisible as God. This unity is incredible and how this contrast with the teachings of other Christian churches. They emphasize the right now, the immediate in contacting with God. And God is the God of hope. And they way He acts shows the way He is. This goes with I mention on the other 2 questions.
Ryan Hablitzel
ID #138672
Final Exam Paper Part #1
Understanding the works of God is no trivial matter. Achieving a more comprehensive knowledge of God’s work is possible, but full knowledge is not possible. What we can understand about God is revealed in the Cosmos. God is above the cosmos and therefore can not be understood fully within the cosmos. In order to understand God one must use analogical language - language used to express similarities and differences. On one hand God uses human language to express His works; “O Lord, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we are the work of thy hand” (Isa 64:8), on the other hand God is above human knowledge; “My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways... For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways... And my thoughts higher than your thoughts” (Isa 55: 8, 9). In order to speak of the works of God one must recognize similarities and differences, comprehendible knowledge and transcendent knowledge.
When contemplating the works of God, a trinitarian viewpoint must be contemplated. Each member of the Trinity is active in the working of the Divine unit. Father, Son, and Spirit each uniquely and equally contribute.
Another aspect of God’s work is the way in which God works individually and in cooperation with His creation. On one hand, God works monergisticly (God working by Himself). On the other hand synergistically (working together with His creation). To often individuals try to understand God exclusively through monergy or synergy. In order to come to a greater understanding of God one must think in terms of both monergy and synergy. God works completely “all in all” (1 Cor 12:6), yet “all things work together for good to those who love the Lord” (Rom 8:28). There is a sense in which God works totally and completely in Himself and a sense in which God works together with His creation. A Biblical understanding of God’s work is both monergistic and synergistic. The monergy of God’s work makes the synergy of our work with God possible, yet both exist.
The concept of monergy and synergy is readily evident in the process of salvation. Salvation is completely bound up in God’s work (monergy), yet we take part in God’s plan of salvation (synergy) as workers together with Him to the restoration and salvation of humanity. This concept of God’s work vs. human work in the salvation process has remained a stumbling block in Christian theology. Perspectives surrounding salvation have tended toward exclusivity. Salvation is either seen as wholly God’s work or man’s work. A more Biblical understanding of the salvation process recognizes how God’s work is completely God’s work, yet we are workers together with God in salvation. As we work together with God in the process of salvation we will come to a greater understanding of who God is and His work. God does 100% of the work, yet he requires that we must be workers together with Him. We must work together with God rather than rebel against Him.
In 1 Thes 2:13 Paul relates “when you received the word of God which you heard of us, you received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God.” In this verse there is an interesting conundrum. The word of God is assimilated to the actions of the preacher. The words were not merely the words of men, but the word of God Himself. Understanding God’s word is distinctly complex. God’s “word” is found in the incarnation, special revelation, general revelation, and illumination within His church. The true Word, Jesus Christ, revealed truth through the incarnation. God also inspires individuals such as Paul with special revelation, a distinct word from the Lord through the mouth of his spokesperson. God’s word can also be seen in creation as His signature reveals itself in each created thing. Finally, God’s word is evident in His church. As the church is illuminated with the Holy Spirit it is able to exemplify and speak the truths of God’s word.
Ryan Hablitzel
ID #138672
Final Exam Paper #2
The discussions surrounding foreknowledge and predestination especially peaked my interest this term. While these topics were discussed within a bigger framework of the order of salvation (foreknowledge, predestination, calling, justification, glory), foreknowledge and predestination were emphasized because of many misconceptions surrounding the term. The concept of “predestined to freedom” taken from Romans 8 seemed simplistic at first, but as the semester progressed I began to gain a greater understanding of what “predestined to freedom” really meant. God has predestined that we would have the free choice to choose either good or evil. We can choose to work together with Him or rebel against Him. We have freedom to choose. God desires that we would choose the path toward good, but we also can choose the path toward evil. If we choose the path toward good we are destined to glory. IF we choose the path toward evil we are destined to death. Predestination is not determinism, but rather freedom. We are predestined to the freedom to choose.
Foreknowledge is distinctly more difficult. To define God’s foreknowledge is an impossibility. We can speculate, but ultimately, God’s foreknowledge will be our study throughout the ceaseless ages. One concept that has challenged my thinking is God and the possibility of discovery. I have always had a picture of a all knowing God that can not gain further information. As I considered my concept of this all knowing God, I realized that this is not a adequate way to think about God. Yes, God is all knowing, but does God experience things that give deeper meaning? Did Jesus Christ experience sin on the cross in a way that God had never experienced sin before? Did God understand sin/evil in a fuller way as a result of His experience on the cross?
Another concept closely related to foreknowledge is the question - does God live in time? I have often heard it said that God does not live in time or that He is above time. I am coming to the conclusion that God does live in some sort of “time” what ever that term means to and infinite God. If God created this world in “time” and since God created this world as a reflection of Himself, then time is a real aspect that God experiences in some way. I am concluding that God both knows everything and can discover (whatever that means).
Another concept brought up in class was the possibility that God has a free choice to choose good or evil. The example brought up in class was when God gave Adam and Eve the ability to choose either good or evil. If Adam and Eve had an ability that God Himself did not have, then they were superior to God in some sense. God never will choose evil, but he has the freewill to do so. God has chosen good, and to live apart from God in evil is death.
As we discuss difficult topics surrounding the works of God, we must do so with a sense of humility. We must be humble enough to say that we don’t know everything and revise our understanding if need be.
Ryan Hablitzel
ID #138672
Why not work with God because He is who He is and not because of the reward?
Too often I think that Christians / Seventh-day Adventists live a self centered Christian experience. Why do we do what we do? Because we get something in return. Would we still be Christians if there was no hope of glory? Would we die with no hope of eternal life in order that others might live? Maybe Erasmus got something right when he focused less on doctrine and more on practical Christian living.
Would we do what we do if there was no hope of glory? Would we uphold the diets we have? Would we do evangelism? Would we be kind? Would we seek for repentance?
If we are truly children of the King, if we truly are partakers in a great controversy, if we truly believe there is a God in heaven actively engaged in our lives, how then shall we live? Shouldn't this be motivation enough to serve God to our fullest? The problem is that we place ourselves above God. We live our lives how we want to live them while attempting to give God a little slice of our time in order to qualify for eternal life. Why not give God everything? We often serve the works of our own hand rather than recognizing the works of God.
What if we lived in a generation that quit debating and started living out what we believe? What if 16,000,000 individuals reflected Jesus in 2009? What if we served God fully, holding nothing back? What if we had faith that God really knew what He was talking about when He gave us advice about diet, dress, worship, finances?
We would turn the world upside down.
God bless you as you continue to seek Him.
Quigley Obrian Morris Works of God 07/30/09
Final exam paper #1
I must say this class has been a blessing; I am now starting to understand a little about God. I was brought up in a SDA home so I was borne in the church, over the years the church’s doctrines were all stamp on my mind and written in my heart. To me I had a clear knowledge as to who God is and how he worked. But after this class I am beginning to see God in a brighter light as a more loving and caring God in s way that I have never being able too.
I have always told people when I preach do not try to understand God but try to trust and believe in him. I now understand that I did not fully understand what I was saying during this years, to me this class has take my faith and my understanding of God to another level in believing and trusting him. But amidst this knowledge pack class, how do I break down this payload of information to people who refuse to read or even study their Sabbath school lesson. I have come to a realizing fact that my battle has just began and the best part I think I am getting ready for it.
Romans 8:28 stands out in my mind for many reason, many years ago I was about eight years old and our family had a disappointment and my parents called us together (12 children I am the seventh) and my father quoted that text “all things work together for good to them that love God” then he prayed and we all were cool about it. A few days later I forget to take my goat in for the night, and that night it rained heavily; the next morning when I was questioned by my mother you will not believe what my answer was; “mum all things work together for good” well I did not have the chance to finish the text before I felt a deep pain in my back and a sound that reminded me that I was being stupid.
From then on I have kept this text in mind and did better exegesis of its content. But to me in this class I understand what is “all things” to me now it is the situation before I was borne and the culture that brought me up, my understand of that culture, my development as an individual, my understand of God, my present state of mind, my connection with God and tomorrow; the place I have not been, and knows nothing about its pain, time, frustration or joy if there is any. But God who has been there who understand, makes and control tomorrow can effect changes, and influence behaviors for my profitability.
He will “work together for good”, now and I mean only after this class I am now understanding that working together does not mean I can make a contribution on my behalf. It is God working
With whom I am; and who he wants me to be. I may want to buy a car and I am thinking of taking a loan so I pray about it and put God in control, I have seen the car and I have made my choice. But God have seen that this car is too costly and it is going to give some problem so he
Quigley Obrin Morris exam paper #2
sets up the plan for me to get a better car at a cheaper cost. God has not worked with me; all my plans of getting the right car are thrown away. Then he takes the plan and gives me the car that is best for me.
The truth is I have a couple of degrees and have been referred to as a good thinker but before this class I could not have stretch my mind to this magnitude. This class has made me all over and I have been giving thought to many things that was thought to be simple about God. But now I can see a bigger God whose work is beyond my thoughts. This class has help me to worship with more respect and to believe that when I pray he is more than able to do for me more than what I can ask for.
The bible language does not do justice to the works of God. In John 15:4 Jesus said “abide in me” the word abide it is being used 131 times in the bible. But what does it mean, it means rest, stability, confidence, but if the word is taken in its sense we will say it means to be with Jesus. The bible writers were confined to their culture, education, experience, reason, logics, attitude and knowledge of God. All of this is the condition of the sinful man. From this unfortunate position how can a man speak of the qualities of God in his righteousness? John was given a little view and he explained in words that did not take us beyond the human spectrum; well that was his encomium. He said a “sea that look like glass” now tell me what impression does that give to you, more time will be spent in trying to bring the two words together, than understanding the depth of its content.
Because of thought inspiration we are terribly limited in our understanding of God through our biblical language, but God is in the business of bringing out the best from our efforts. Revelation 3 : 20 says “Behold, I stand at the door, and knock”: but the Greek says I have been knocking; I have been calling; here is a vast different in language explanation. The English translation is saying the action is now; the Greek is saying the action started before we were borne and it is going on now; and it will be there until the end. So language has its mark; and it’s our main link of communication to God and he is able to reaches us through our language. Language is a work of God; he has channeled his will to us through language, every spoken word points to the working of a God who loves us. More than any form of evangelism, language have been use to reach the heart of man and women from Adam’s time. We are the only creature who is able to communicate through the use of words. It is God’s work through which he can touch our hearts and recreate every fiber in our being. It’s our only channel to pour out our wounded hearts at the feet of the cross. It is in language the sinner can seek forgiveness and advocated a fresh relationship with his maker. Mrs. White said “pray dose not bring God down to us but bring us up to Him”(step to Christ 93) Language truly a fascinating work of God
In response to quigley
Thank you for your interesting story and comment.
I like this class because the learning has not been ceasing yet, even now after the regular class finished. Quigley! you should have learned 2nd or 3rd language. Through that experience we also can understand the language is a fascinating work of God. I would say specifically through the process of interpretation from one lanaguage into the other in my mind, I often feel the exciting works of God. Ultimately my language tells me what does it mean to me. but It is impossible for us to grasp and realize something new from other languages without the Holy Spirit. It is truely His work.
1. Conviction – Confession ( Forgiveness)
2. Conversion – Repentance
3. Consecration - Obedience
4. Confirmation and sealing by the Holy Spirit - Endurance and perseverance
They are the works of God in our mind everyday
Which word is the most favorite one for us?
And which one is the least favorite?
I think it depends on what the situations are. But the fourth of second words would be the least.
As I look at these words and think, I found an interesting thing that there is an order as Dr. Hanna presented. I think the word ‘Conviction and Confession’ is the one that we experience the most. And the last ‘Confirmation and Endurance’ is the least. Through the God’s synergy working of conviction is us starts very often, but we used to fail to response with confession. And we…, not we(I’m not sure others) but I scarcely reach the obedience. Rare times we reached to the 3rd, but immediately went back to the first step where we should confess and need forgiveness again for the arrogance.
“What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue from me this body of death?”(Rom. 7:24)
Omar Nunez
Works of God: Take Home Final Exam Page 1
Dr. Martin Hanna
7/30/09
My experience in the Works of God class this summer with Dr. Martin Hanna has challenged me and helped me develop more of my theological perspective on many different levels. When dealing with understanding God’s works there’s always two sides to the coin and when we deal with people there’s two sides as well. Thus this class has helped me develop working to understand people’s opinions and how God works. I didn’t know what to expect from a class called the Works of God. I simply thought that this couldn’t be a difficult class because it sounds easy to understand the Works of God. However, this was not just another simple class because my first week’s impression of the class was awfully confusing. I wasn’t sure why the subjects had a philosophical twist to understanding the works of God. My first impression was tainted by Greek thinking combined with Theological principles. However, after the first week of reading The Act and Being and studying the notes again I felt more interested in hearing what Dr. Hanna had to say. His lectures were very interesting and class room discussing was enlightening. Wrestling with some of the questions in class has stretched my mind to look for similarities and differences to difficult questions. In class, I often find myself asking, what is God trying to say to me through Dr. Hanna and why now? As I came to consciously realize through the class, God uses Analogical language to speak to us in a way we can understand His works, I see how class can prepare someone to answer some of life’s difficult questions. On the other side of the coin, I can see how it can cause confusion if we don’t understand how God works from an analogical perspective. I especially enjoyed learning concepts to understanding the works of God as discuss in class like pre-modern, modern, post-modern thinking. In addition, I very much appreciated our chart of Foreknowledge, Predestination, Calling, Justification, and Glorification were great practical methods to explain how God works. Certainly, this course ranks up there on my top ten most useful classes in Theology in terms of everyday use in the ministry.
Omar Nunez
Works of God: Take Home Final Exam page 2
Dr. Martin Hanna
7/30/09
I feel more comfortable talking about many texts that were mentioned in class, but Romans 8:28 has had the greatest impact on me personally. In this passage God works in monergy and in cinergy in all things. As I had previously presented this particular passage for my proposal speech, God seems to be working passively and actively in all things both the good and bad. God doesn’t stop working with us in both circumstances. I can have a million things go wrong in one day and it doesn’t mean that God has stopped working. I remember renting a condo that was being foreclosed on in Orlando, FL and I was not aware of the fact that it was being foreclosed on because the land lord was so nice not to tell me. I had to move out of that condo before I would get evicted. I moved with a close family friend’s house in the mean time and while I was there God used me to witness to Eladio. Now Eladio didn’t want to go to church because he had issues with church members so he stayed home every Sabbath. Strangely enough while I was there God had been working in this man’s life. I had no idea that my friend Eladio felt the Holy Spirit calling him to go to church. Months later my mom tells me that his wife said that he saw an angel by his bed side saying get up and go to church. His response is same as all of us who love God and do what He says. Eladio went to church on Sabbath mornings from then on and he’s changed his attitude and heart for God’s sake. Now I have no clue if I had something to do with his experience with God but I think about this instance and say that if God had any influence on Eladio’s life because I would go to church on Sabbath I’ll never know but I praise God that I was in this guy’s life during my difficult moments because I saw him changed his life around evening though I didn’t know what Eladio had experienced. Behind closed doors there’s evil ministers and good ministers working against God’s beloved people, but God works in any and every situation in our lives.
It’s clear that God is in control even when things are bad and good. Romans 8:28 says “and we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.” There’s a passive and active side to the way God works in our lives. God works causes us to work and we work together with God. In the end God will explain all things behind closed doors both good and bad work for His good purpose, but for now we just have to trust and obey that He’s in control.
Thank you Myong for this notes on conviction and conversion.
TAKE HOME EXAM PART 1
I must say that, this class has been a blessing; I am beginning to understand and appreciate who God really is. This class has opened my mind to things that are thought provoking. I have never had a lecture like this before since I became an Adventist. What really intrigued me was the lecture on predestination. I have learnt that God’s predestination does not determine the eternal salvation or damnation of human beings, as some would have us believe. The biblical teaching does not identify of predestination with foreknowledge, whereby God is said to predestine everything He foreknows. It’s true that the biblical idea of foreknowledge includes God’s knowledge of our eternal destiny (Romans 8: 29). This made me to understand that indeed the book of Romans talks about predestination to freedom. For instance, (Romans 6: 22). God conceived the idea and determined the plan of salvation before the world was created (Eph. 1:4). What we need to know about God has been revealed; in the universe within the cosmos because He created it. God comes down to the level of man to reveal Himself to us. In analogical language we use human language to describe the work of God in relation to the work of man. God reveals His work by analogy to us. In Isaiah 64:8 “But now O Lord, thou art the potter and we are the work of thy hands.” Illustratively, God is using analogical language so that His people can understand the message. Human illustration is limited illustration. At the same time God’s work is totally different from our work. Isaiah 55:8-9 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the Lord.” Although it is hard for us to describe God and other religious theories using analogy, there are certain ways in which it is possible to find out through them. We can find God’s properties from stories in the bible that have been passed down through generations. In particular with analogies, it is possible to think of God using human terms because analogy helps us to understand God and what he is. When using analogy it is not possible to describe God exactly using our language, because our language is limited. However, surely it would be impossible to understand him if people did not try to explain him. It would be impossible for people to have belief or faith in him if we did not use language they understand. What I have learned about the interpretation of biblical language concerning the works of God is that, God is greater than anything that we can think of, we can define him using human terms that people can understand. However, even though we use human language here to define him people are still unable to understand fully the reality of God within the range of our human nature, finite, and limited reason. God reveals what He said and what He can do in terms of human realities. For instance, when God says that He has an arm (Exodus 15:10, Ps 89:13), He does not mean that he has exactly or univocally what we call arm. The expression signifies that God’s reality is capable of performing all that can be performed by a human arm and definitely more. We cannot
TAKE HOME EXAM PART 2
conceived or imagine the effectual structural of God’s reality that allows Him to perform these acts. Yet the analogical language reveals to us aspects of God’s being and divine capabilities, while at the same time guarding the mystery of His divine nature. God has met this predicament by making Himself known to human beings on a personal level. The essence of divine revelation can be summed up by saying that God reveals Himself in words, acts and through different channels. The deficiency of our thinking process as it relates to God as a subject matter of study manifests itself not only when we discover that it is possible for us to know God apart from His self-revelation, but also when we realized the limitations in our understanding of that which reveals Him. Such limitations are due not only to our sinful natures, but mainly to the very nature of God, whose greatness is unsearchable” (Ps 143:3). Biblical inspiration is defined as the work of God by which, without setting aside their personalities and literary or human faculties, God so guided the authors of Scripture as to enable them to write exactly the words which convey His truth to men, and in doing so preserved their judgments from error in the original manuscripts. The Word of God as given to us in the Bible is a product of two free agents, human and divine. Through (fallible) human authors, God manifested the infallible and errorless writings, which convey His message. Although God is sovereign and can do anything by Himself, He chooses to have humans interact in His plan. This is one of the biggest differences between Christianity and other religions; which support verbal dictation. God reaching down to man, and using them as His works of inspiration. For example, inspiration is illustrated in this way: In 2 Timothy 3:16 that the entire Bible is inspired by God, not just partially. It is an important concept, for if we choose and pick some parts of the Bible as inspired and others are not, then the entire Bible soon falls apart. Who has the authority to decide the extent of inspiration, but God Himself. And God made it very clear that all Scripture, is inspired by Him. Therefore those who preach partial and degrees of inspiration are not fulfilling His works. Since God is truth (John 3:33, Romans 3:4), what is breathed out by God, must also be true (John 17:17) and infallible. The process of inspiration is also described in 2Peter 1:21, “for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.” All Scripture was regarded by the Jews as prophecies that did not originate from man, but came from God. The Holy Spirit inspired the prophets or apostles to write the truths, which was then recorded and superintended by God to ensure that the messages were not diverted, misdirected or erred by the fallible author. This was the true works of God. It is important to point out that inspiration was not a mechanical dictation of the Scripture to the authors. The authors were free to express their emotions and style in their writings under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Conclusively, inspiration as seen in the writing of scripture is the work of God. Therefore, one may conclude that the biblical language itself is a work of God.
Roshelle Brenneise
THST520 - Works of God
July 29, 2009
FINAL EXAM – Part 1
Exam question: Describe how your perspective on the works of God has changed or developed during your study this summer. Mention some relevant Bible texts and show how your understanding of these texts has progressed. What have you learned about the
interpretation of biblical language concerning the works of God? In what ways is biblical
language itself a work of God?
I am finding this final exam more difficult to write then I expected. It is not as simple as I thought it would be to talk about how my perspective of the Works of God has changed over the course of the class. Most of the information presented in class this summer was not necessarily “new” information for me, but it was packaged in such a way that it was all new and fresh to some degree.
Part of my problem is that most “problems” in the Bible don’t seem all that complicated to me and so I don’t expend very much mental energy trying to figure out things I don’t understand. For instance, it does not seem strange to me that the Bible writers used “human” language to describe God, because it is the only language we have and I just figure it’s the only way we have to understand “through a veil darkly” the things of God even if the words may not be the most exhaustive way to describe God. It is impossible to know God at all except that He reveals Himself in ways our limited brains can understand. He is so far beyond us and yet He wants to be known, so He reveals Him. Our knowing anything about God has nothing what-so-ever to do with us or anything we do and everything to do with God and what He does to make Himself known. He uses our language to describe Himself. That is really cool to me and the rest I just don’t worry about.
There are three examples in the book of Genesis where God is described as going down to see if the rumors he has heard about the wickedness of men is true. The first story is that of the flood. “God SAW how great was the wickedness of human beings and the inclination of their heart was only evil all the time” (Genesis 6 – REB). The second story is that of the building of the Tower of Babel. “The Lord came down to SEE the city and tower which they had built….. Let us go down and confuse their language…..” (Genesis 11 –REB). The third story is that of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. “How great is the outcry over Sodom and Gomorrah… I will go down and SEE if their deeds warrant the outcry reaching me” (Genesis 18 – REB). Now from a perspective of Foreknowledge, why would God “need” to go down and SEE what is going on on earth? He already knows, right?? From a perspective of whether God has eyes or not has never even entered my mind than it is anything other than a human way of describing God. Why this doesn’t bother me is very simple. It is not for his benefit that He is described as having to “see” if the rumors are true before He takes action against sin. It is for the benefit of the on-looking universe and sinful humanity. He knows what is going on, but He is a God of full disclosure. Sin has to be dealt with, but if He just came in like a tornado and destroyed without laying the foundation for WHY he is destroying, He would leave Himself open for accusations of arbitrary annihilation, so He gives evidence. I have found no place in the Bible where God just randomly destroys; He always lays out his case and reasons why before He takes action.
Roshelle Brenneise
THST520 – Works of God
July 29, 2009
FINAL EXAM – Part 2
There was a line of thinking that was completely new to me and that came from the book Act and Being. It has never occurred to me before to think of God as an essence apart from what He does. It is a concept that has never passed through my grey-matter. I’m not sure if I completely understand it even now and I don’t think I want to spend to much time thinking about it because it is so far from my own way of viewing God as who He is because of what He does.
Apart from the book there were two concepts in class that had new dimensions for me and they are the F, P, C, J, G and the Monergy/Synergy concepts.
My favorite verses in the Bible are Romans 8:31-39. What I had not done before was to put the whole chapter together, which seems funny because I am always telling people the importance of reading the Bible as a whole and not picking and choosing. Like I said above, I don’t worry about those things I don’t understand. I am content until God chooses to reveal something new to me. I have been aware (in the back of my mind) about Foreknowledge and Predestination, but I have not focused on them at all, because I took it for granted that I had free choice AND God knew all about it before hand and there was no contradiction in my mind. The discussions in class and Dr Hanna’s take on the concepts of Foreknowledge, Predestination and Calling really did nothing but confuse me. I am just simple minded enough to believe that God is God and I am not and He can be and do what He wants apart from my understanding of it all. I was able to look at Romans 8:28-30 with new glasses and then put those verses together with the rest of the chapter, which gave a deeper and more complete picture. I thought I understood it all, but as I am writing this paper, I realize that I don’t understand it at all even after going over all my notes. This will remain a lap question, but I am confident that God will make it plainer to me if He thinks I need to know it.
The other concept that had new dimensions was the Monergy/Synergy concept. Again, it is not new per se, but it was presented in a much deeper and more profound way then I had ever thought of it before. The terminology was new – Monergy: What God does alone (Gen 1:1), Synergy: what we do together in cooperation with God (Rom 8:28) - makes perfect sense. I liked the idea that human Monergy is sin because we try a do apart from God, but at the same time Monergy without God is Synergy with the Devil. Humans can never do Monergy because it is Synergy with either God or Satan (1 John 3:8).
Monergy and Synergy brings me to my final thought. There was a recurring theme throughout the entire class and that was the importance of and/both. We get in trouble when we say it is either this way or that way. For the grace, grace, grace people the problem is not that they promote the grace of God it’s that they deny his justice. For the foreknowledge/predestination people the problem is not that they promote the omniscience of God it’s that they deny freedom of choice. I appreciate Dr Hanna’s emphasis on a holistic view of the Bible. We will always live in the tension between what has been revealed by God about Himself and what we don’t know. I like the words from Phillips, Craig and Dean’s Song “You are God Alone” – You are not a God created by human hands, a you are not a God dependent on any mortal man, You are not a God in need of anything we can give, By Your plan that’s just the way it is, You are God alone, from before time began, You were on Your throne and You are God alone…….” Thanks Dr. Hanna, great class!!!
Herbert Oliphant
Doctrine of God. Paper #1
I have been enlightened by the course. Of note are the following points that got me to develop my thought process on God and the way He works :( a) Any reference to God is anthropomorphic and is inadequate to fully express who God is and how He works. In fact, it is impossible for a Human being to adequately explain who God is because of the human limitation.(b)There is a close connection between Man’s works and God’s works.(Rom.8:28-30)(c) especially verses 29&30 which address predestination. (D) Monergy and Synergy. Firstly, I must revert to point (A) which speaks about anthropomorphic term. This concept was expanded on and breathed new life into my insight in light of the fact that while I knew that we as human beings are finite and God in terms of his personhood, intelligence and sphere, is definitely above us and supersedes us in all point as our Creator. I never really took as much time before, to examine the idea, that technically while God is respected as our creator, our concept of him helps to shape who He is to us individually. Hence, the argument that God is who we make Him is technically correct. In light of this fact however, it is incorrect if we use our analogy to express that God is nonexistent if we do not believe in Him or create an image of Him in our minds where we create Him in our image. Here I see a lack of available words to adequately explain who God is however my attempt is summed up in these words. God exists independently of us and can do without us but if we never perceived or created a Supreme Being in our thoughts and use our limited knowledge and understanding to converse among ourselves (Human) about God and interpret nature through a “God created all sense” and also if we had thrown out the bible then who or what would we ascribe the Creation, mysteries and Cosmos to?. No doubt, the evolution “Big Bang” theory would be a reasonable alternative, but the truth is there seem to be a Monergy on the one hand and Synergy on the other. We need Him and He as God certainly needs us. We need him for dependence and existence but he needs us to much lesser degrees and certainly not for any purpose to qualify Him as God because he is Omnipotent Eternal etc. My perspective of God defines who God is to me individually. The Sovereignty of God is however, not shaped by what we think or imagine. He is God Almighty believe it or not If we are dead or alive, rich or poor in other words Humanity cannot claim adoration of or praise for the creation of God or the universe, on the reverse God is entitled to worship and praise and He it was that created the universe. He (God) is responsible for the works of the Cosmos. 1Cor.12:6 God works all in all in order to be all and in all 1 Cor.15:28.
Rom.8:30 that seemingly refer to predestination is still not clear to me and is not necessarily a concept that I am ready accept at this time. That God has predestined us to freedom sounds credible but this act of predestination of humanity to anything good or bad leads to a lot of controversy. If God has predestined us to freedom, how about respecting our right to choose bondage? We would not have freedom to make our personal choice right or wrong. I was blessed by the meaningful way the entire passage in Rom.8 was explained but the concept of predestined to freedom has not yet found root as I am still wrestling with the concept. Another concept that inflicts holes in this theory is the idea in verse 23 that we are waiting for the deliverance into freedom. If we were predestined to freedom why do we have to wait to receive it when we need it both now and from previous times?
==>Works of God was not clear to me.
What I knew about the works of God was a mystery. Yes! It is. And still it is a mysterious thing even now.
We're creatures. And how dare to know the Creator’s thoughts?
If I know His works, then I would become a god.
But I don't want to be a god. Because being a god and his job have too many things to take care of.
I'm grateful for being a man.
As I took the lectures, I have become clearer about the works of God in which I can clarify some of them and I could glorify for the greatness and mighty power.
The way Dr. Hanna teaches us with his simple drawings and words was very interesting and really helpful for me to make an outline of God’s work in the Bible.
“F-P-C-J-G” This is like an excellent format to study the works of God in the Bible. I had learned them before separately and partially.
But now I can arrange them on one line or a column to sort by the topics and by the order. And I practiced it in my research paper(The works of God in Paul’s letter to the Ephesians) that was to me fantastic experience.
I have still a lot to study more.
The Bible is like a scramble book that we have to search and explore for the truth which is not easy to grasp. While I was researching the book of Ephesians, I was surprised that the word of God seems like a cube that has more than 5 or 6 dimensional points in a short letter or even in a sentence. When Paul was writing his letter to the people in Ephesians, God also was writing His letters toward us who are going to live in 2000 years later and for the other people who are seeking the truth. So we need to read the Bible not in the way of reading for newspapers or fictions but a specific means or different approaches.
And The “F-P-C-J-G”(Fopecajugo – This is what I made for the mid-term test) is like the one of amazing approaches for the works of God in the Bible.
Everything begins by the will of God and in accordance with his pleasure and His will. (Eph 1:1,5-Forknowlege)
And In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, and God prepared beforehand that we should walk with them(Eph 1:5, 2:10)
Then He called us as His servants, a minister(Eph 3:7), apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and teachers(Eph 4:11), Be followers of God(Eph 5:1)
Walk worthy of the calling(Eph 4:1).
And for the next step of the works of God, there are so many different works of God in the Bible. And through my research, I’ve found three essential works of God for the justification and sanctification. First was the redemption and enlightenment through the work of the Holy Spirit. (Eph1:5,6,7,13,18) Second, the unification and faith and last one is the experience for the holiness(1:16) and blameless(1:4)
The final step for the works of God is Glorification.
The most interesting thing from my study was this Justification & sanctification. We need to experience the synergy work with God. God always are willing to help and bless us with spiritual blessings from above. And the faith is the central role for the other two, enlightenment and experiencing the mighty power for the transformation and conversion into the new creatures.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”(John 1:1)
It is interesting that even our words(language) have power. My words are more powerful than Obama’s in my house. I can’t imagine how powerful God’s word is!
I think the interpretation of the Bible causes dynamic power to give life for those who are dead in sin. But we should use the biblical language for the works of God. Thus the biblical language is the most powerful and effective means for understanding the works of God. And we need to learn the tongues of the angels (I Cor 13:1) with love.
How can we however, make the interpretation for the biblical language?
I really enjoyed the lectures Dr. Hanna gave us. Those biblical interpretations I wish to make too as a pastor. I’m sure that it is the work of the Holy Spirit. Without His help nobody will make any correct interpretations.
As a foreigner, I had to face many problems because of my language. It is not only for communication problems, but also whole matter of my life and my family also. We know how important the language is in our lives. In the same manner, In order to understand and experience the works of God, we also need a language that is the biblical language. We are the children of God. We have our own language which is the word of God and love. And God has given us a mission to teach this language to the foreigners who cannot understand. Jesus was the One who became the Word for us from the beginning. He came to us and showed everything we need. He came to this world and He spoke the heavenly language with His human nature. We can’t understand God’s Word, but we can understand what Jesus has spoken to us, because He used our language. This is what we should learn here in this seminary like the disciples. Incarnation of Jesus is the perfect example of the interpretation for the word of God. And His birth, life, death and the resurrection are the finest language and the message from God about His character and love.
I pray that may God bless all the seminarians and become powerful translators who can translate the mysterious works of God.
THST 617 Works of GOD FINAL
Professor: Martin Hanna, Ph.D.
By: Fa’asoa Michael Fa’asoa
Exam Question:
#1. Describe how your perspective on the works of God has changed or developed during your study this summer.
Ans: Ten pages isn’t enough to try to adequately explain both the intelligent progression of my knowledge base of this issue, (WORKS of GOD) in terms of information via the backdrop of Biblical wholistic thinking; and the personal spiritual growth that I and my family have experienced with much joy developmentally and otherwise as a direct result of said experience in both the Salvation Class you taught in the first session and this class on the works of our Creator.
I use to think I understood what wholistic thinking entailed, and even attempted to live it since the first class I took with you in 2005; however, I will freely admit that I honestly didn’t get it until of late.
I use to compartmentalize various Biblical concepts such as: “Faith, Hope, and Love” (Romans 8) in individualized elements of their own in more of a progression in one’s spiritual growth but didn’t see that they can also interchange within and amongst themselves as one grows in the “fullness of Christ Jesus.”
Paul’s linking of these concepts together is progressively clearing to me. Especially considering Gal. 5:5,6 where Paul states that, “…we wait for the Hope of righteousness by Faith, which works through Love…and 1 Corinthians 12; 13; 14 where he continuously, minus the later added punctuations, connects these concepts-though he seemingly elevated Love as the “skeleton” so to speak, which holds the flesh together, although at the same time, one can imagine not having any blood (which is life) or other proper physiological processes can make it a challenge for the “skeleton” to move around and have it’s being…indeed, the human mechanism needs all its’ organisms in order for the body to function at its maximum.
Also, until this class, it never occurred to me that while it was GOD’s purpose (Eph. 1:5,11) to predestine us all (human family) to be free-though many will have chosen not to be set free-the creation (cosmos-universe) itself actually/literally is yearning to be set free as well? (Romans 8:1-4; 8:21) I mean, I’ve known and believed that the Lion will someday lie down with the lamb and eat grass/fruits/vegetables…the list of possibilities is endless (see Isaiah), but never really consider that just as my soul longs to be set free from SIN/Bondage (Gal. 5:13) and this broken world of ours, so likewise in a similar manner, the yearning of GOD’s Creation to be set free…it makes me want to cry.
Continue on next post…………….
Then there is the matter of my being ignorant of how deterministic I was. This was evident in my thinking in class in the past, though in growing process now (smiling); and also in my reflections with my family, as well as friends/acquaintances, and strangers I meet on the web or at the grocery store. It never occurred to me in the least bit that I thought this way, honestly, but I was-even with a previous introduction to wholistic thinking as I mentioned above.
Paul in his various writings (Romans 1; 2; 3; 4; 5;…8…heck all of Romans; 1 and 2 Corinthians; Galatians etc.) alludes to this concept of GOD working ALL things out for the good of those who love Him…while He is the GOD of GOOD, yet He also uses evil in His works for various reasons, but particularly in order to save us. What a GOD we serve!
I actually wouldn’t probably have known how to better effectively communicate with pre-moderns/moderns, and post-moderns (although in some sense I had been doing this all along, though probably not as effective) in a way which would make the truth relevant to their understanding, and yet not compromising any necessary Biblical point in the process…should it get to the point of Biblical reflection.
As my wife and my children are witnesses, these two classes have changed my life personally for the better more than you will ever realize Dr. Hanna. Thanking you wouldn’t suffice what GOD has done through/with to effectively and miraculously mold my deepest within.
#2. What have you learned about the interpretation of biblical language concerning the works of God?
Ans: Wow! To me Dr. Hanna, the better question in my personal situation would be: What have I not learned concerning the interpretation of Biblical language concerning the works of GOD?” And I don’t mean to say this in a prideful or downgrading way at all but simply to share that I have gained a better understanding of GOD’s work with and through us in this class then I have ever gained in the whole time I have been here at the Seminary.
I mean the whole idea of synergism versus Monergism: “…God working without the cosmos and yet with the cosmos. Further, when God works with the cosmos there is a distinction between what God does and what the cosmos does through powers given to it by God.”
That is mind boggling stuff yet it’s not sooo tuff that I can’t but faintly understand it. The analogical concepts with which humans communicate on a daily basis, let alone preach and teach one another is very limited in it of itself which then causes the need of a broader, a more wholistic interpretation and understanding of holy writ.
I am convinced that our Biblical interpretation concerning God’s work is only limited to the model that we use to directly or indirectly communicate with. How desperately important than is our desperate need for wholistic thinking.
#3. In what ways is biblical language itself a work of God?
Ans: I mentioned the idea of Analogy above because it is the known way with which the LORD GOD has chosen to communicate to fallen/sinful human beings. In this revelation, GOD showed Himself a GOD of Love and a GOD who’s purpose and foreknown plan, which was for us all to be saved (though some will not be by their own choice) was motivated by His Divine Love which has been written on ink and “paper” and yet also on the hearts and minds of men throughout history.
The Bible tells us that GOD revealed Himself through the Inspired Word of Scripture, yet that same GOD who created the cosmos has incarnated Himself, yea exploded Himself in the scene of men. 2 Tim. 3:16; 2 Cor. 3:3; 2 Pet. 1:21; Eph. 1:15-22.
GOD revealed and created by His Word and Holy Spirit, and inspired the Holy Scriptures yet He also illuminated His Church. He has revealed Himself through the Church.
GOD works through the Word and the Holy Spirit via the concept of Trinitarianism. He works through the Word and Spirit in the Gospel (Romans 1:16) of Christ. 2 Thes. 2:13 describes the process of Salvation through Sanctification of the Holy Spirit. In these ways is the Biblical language the works of GOD.
GOD bless you Dr. Hanna.
Final
“The pen is mightier than the sword,” said Edward Bulwer-Lytton. What does that phrase mean? A sword changes people. So how are words mightier? Swords chang the body, sords change the heart. I was not surprised at the beginning of our class to discuss II Timothy 3:16, 17, “All Scripture is God-breathed…that the man of God may be complete…” We were created by God’s word, then we fell. Now, we are recreated by God’s words.
We’ve gone into great depth this term in explaining that words themselves are analogical. What we mean by this is that words are not a thing in and of themselves. Rather, words are signs that convey meaning, sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly. With our new enlightenment it may be a temptation for many of us to loose faith in words. They may seem less than we originally thought, mere symbols where once we trusted to find accuracy. But, perhaps it is not that they are less than we originally thought, but that we have never really thought about them.
I would propose, based on the premises of our class, that words are, in fact, a most accurate representation of reality, perhaps even more so that the things we can touch. Let me explain, in class we began by identifying the cosmos and recognizing that, though God enters the cosmos, God is not limited to the cosmos. In fact, God exists outside the cosmos as well. We discussed the tension that develops in our minds when we try to understand this. In effect, God reveals Himself in the cosmos, but there is always more to God than what we know. Mystery joins hands with certainty in all His revelations.
Do words not follow a similar, albeit inferior pattern? Words are not god. But the very tension in the analogical reality that words are bridges to lands with more bridges is reminiscent of the idea that our world/cosmos is not all there is. In other words, the plurality of words is a most accurate form for communication when one recognizes reality is a plurality of which we are limited to the cosmological part. When the Bible says, “In the beginning was the Word” in John1:1 maybe the plurality of words most accurately portrays the nature of our Savior, both divine and human.
Maybe it also follows that words are, in fact, a fabulous medium for conveying the works of God because of the inherent tension words bring. A word is not the thing it represents. Rather, a word is a smaller reality that connects us to a much bigger reality. All our knowledge of God’s works are, in fact, good, and true, and real. But we should not limit God to them any more than we would limit a dog to being, in itself, the collection of the letters D-O-G. For this reason, words are a splendid means for communicating about God. Word’s give hints to realitys beyond our presence, so do the revelations of God.
Language sets us up to embrace accurate pluralities. Biblical language in teaches which pluralities to accept, and which to reject. Therefore, especially in regards to the works of God we should not be too specific as to cut off an accurate truth of God. We should also not be too broad as to embrace an inaccurate truth about God. In the end we must draw our conclusions wholistically. Finally, I must say, to be Biblical is to be wholistic. What is more is to communicate Biblically is to communicate in a wholistic way.
Final 2
I could end this essay here but that would not be wholistic! Now, let us look at the evidence for the wholistic approach I have discovered this term. For me, my knowledge has progressed, not so much with reference to particular Bible texts, but with issues the Bible addresses.
For instance, on the issue of sanctification and justification; there have been times in my own life when I have questioned my own justification on the grounds that sanctification did not seem to be happening (at least as fast as I would have liked.) Texts like Phillipians 2:12,13 have haunted me. In my efforts to “work out my own salvation” I did not know how to account for “for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.” This passage seemed mutually exclusive. Now, with the concept of “merits vs. conditions” in mind, this passage is easier to embrace wholistically. The focus is conditions, not merit. We never obtain merit, but that should not lead us to exclude conditions.
This synthesis largely comes from the ideas of monergy and synergy. I have to say, those concepts opened a whole new world of possibility to me. In the past, if I was thinking or discussion something monergistic I felt guilty for not properly considering the synergistic elements. For instance, I had a hard time talking about justification by faith without getting stalemated in my desire to account for conditional aspects. But, when I accounted for the conditions I felt as though I was being a legalist, focusing on works. Now I can comfortably talk about either without the guilt of excluding the other.
This leads into our extensive conversations about Romans 8. I find it comforting to look at the ideas of foreknowledge and predestination through the lens of monergy with the remaining, calling, justification and glorification embracing elements of synergy. Often we handle these ideas in Romans 8 and elsewhere as if since they begin monergistically that is how they will end. The continuum Dr. Hanna developed with the commentary of monergy/synergy allowed me to escape some of the linear if-it-starts-this-way-it-must-end-this-way thinking. Also, packaging these concepts in the context of freedom, as Romans 8 does, really opened my eyes to what God is doing. This discussion helped my shed some Calvinistic struggles I did not know were Calvinestic.
For me, when Dr. Hanna posed the question, “Can God know passively?” I almost had to grab my seat! “Of course not,” I thought. “God knows everything.” Yet, the argument that God must know evil passively is difficult to refute and opens up for a more specific question, “Can God know good passively?” This question boggles my mind in a good way. It opens up possibilities to my own relationship with God I had not previously dared to consider. For instance, maybe God can enjoy my life in a real way. We think, yes, that’s obvious. Yet, if God cannot know passively how can He experience joy?
Final 3
Finally, my view of God has grown in relationship to the trinity. In class I was called upon to give an example of the trinity working together on something. Embarrassingly I could not do it. But, I will end this paper with this question: “Can each member of the Godhead relate differently?” All we have discussed this term takes for granted (at least mostly) that the Godhead all foreknows, predestines, calls, justifies and glorifies with the same approach. But what if we could take this class three times, once for each of the Godhead. I am studying Revelation for my devotions and I noticed something odd midway through this class. Revelation 1 starts out, “The revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave Him…” God gave Jesus a revelation that is at least partly about Himself. Why would this be necessary if they are the same?
For me, every word of the Bible is exploding with new meaning. I can ask myself, “How would the Holy Spirit relate to this? or the Father, or the Son.” Naturally, there would be a danger in assuming there is always differences, but Revelation 1:1 may imply the same danger exists for assuming there are never differences. We have to think wholistically, even about the Godhead.
I would not propose my new reflection on the Godhead, or even this class, is about figuring everything out. Rather, I would say it is about opening ourselves up to God’s call, to hearing God’s words in God’s ways.
Final Exam
Question 1
Describe how your perspective on the works of God has changed or
developed during your study this summer. Mention some relevant Bible texts and show
how your understanding of these texts has progressed.
During the course of the class my conception of the works of God was broadened beyond what I traditionally. I always viewed the acts of God as events in time, or interruptions in the everyday but during this class I learned the act of God cannot be limited in such a fashion. The first thing I learned and perhaps I’ve named in first because it sticks out so much in my head is that the first Act of God was freedom of choice.
The idea of choice is central to both the problem of sin and the beauty of salvation. The act of God as freedom is seen vividly in the Old Testament in the case of the Garden of Eden. In Gen 2 God sets before Adam and eve the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They were told not to eat of the tree of good and evil with the penalty being death but they still had the option to eat of the tree or not. Further in the Old Testament, in Joshua 24:15 Joshua sets forth before the children of Israel the choice of wither they will serve the Lord or serve themselves. In the New Testament the idea that man is given a freedom of choice on wither to be saved or not is clearly seen in the book of Romans chapter 8
In Romans Paul sets forth in Romans 8:2 that a man who is in Christ is set free from the laws of sin and death. Gal 5:13 also makes use of this analogy of freedom by stating that we are called to freedom. These texts give the impression that the life we are called to is a life of freedom. In Romans 8:15 Paul says that we have not received the spirit of bondage but the spirit of adoption of which we cry out Abba Father. In all, the Bible gives a picture of Freedom for man, a freedom to choice life and peace and a freedom to choose death and loss.
I’ve always had a belief that we have freedom in Christ however the intricacies and the impact of such a freedom were not known to me. If I was to face a Calvinist in a discussion on predestination vs. freedom of choice I would have given my pat answers perhaps from Joshua the most commonly quoted text about choice but I don’t believe I would have a firm standing in regard to the idea of predestination. During the course of this class I’ve come to see that our very idea of predestination is flawed. When we normally see predestination we immediately see firm fixed role in which we have no choice but the Bible’s view of predestination is of predestination to Freedom. The bible says in Romans 8:29 says we are predestined to be conformed into the image of his son. This text is given in context that we are given freedom from sin. It’s a freedom that I have not been able to put into exact words until this class
Final Exam Q2
What have you learned about
the interpretation of biblical language concerning the works of God? In what ways is
Biblical language itself a work of God?
I have learned that as humans our language and understanding is below the magnitude of God therefore we seek to describe the perfect, imperfectly. Our language especially in our understanding of the work of God is only descriptors. The greatest tool of this is in how the Bible uses analogies to describe the works of God. Comments like the “eyes of the Lord are going to and fro throughout the earth” seeks to describe God’s perception. Since we have no conception of sight outside of our relationship to human sight we describe God in analogy to ourselves, our eyes.
I have also learned that illustrations are used to describe the work of God which is often beyond our full comprehension. An example of this is in Is 64:8 where Isaiah describes God as a potter and we the clay. Isaiah didn’t mean it literally but he gives the showing that God’s work is transforming work in His children. The purpose and reason behind such descriptory language is that our thoughts cannot match His thought paths. In Is 55:8, 9 God states that His thoughts are higher than our thoughts and His ways then our ways. Therefore God has to condescend to reach our ways of thinking.
Which brings us to the last part of the question, in what ways is Biblical language itself a work of God? The work of God in language is a work of Revelation. Humanity in its broken state cannot hope to have relationship or knowledge of God. It may have been possible in the Garden but even then God actually visited them in the Garden. Therefore God had to reveal Himself to man. The most prominent way of which we know outside of prophecy and nature is the written word of God.
The bible in describing it’s own nature states that all of scripture is inspired or “God Breathed” 2 Tim 3:16. Therefore all scripture is given by the moving of the Spirit in Revelation. The greatest description of God’s revelation and inspiration is shown in Jn 1:14 when John says that the word became flesh and dwelt among us, revealing that Jesus dwelling among us is a continuation of the work of revelation that started in the written word of God. John goes on further to say in vs.18 that Jesus came to “reveal” the father, the Greek actually says to exegete the father. Showing, that Jesus in His essence is God’s word in human language without an in-between such as a prophet or priest.
Final Paper part 1:
One of the most significant ways that my perspective has changed is in understanding that there is joy in asking hard questions, and discussing them, in seeing things differently as other people and to explore together what some possible answers might be. In the past, when taking classes akin to Works of God, they lacked depth because their was hesitancy on the part of both professor and students to ask the hard questions, and any time something that we didn’t have a clear answer for came up, it gave way to debates and disagreements, because on one side of the class there were those who couldn’t fathom a way of thinking that was a little bit outside our standard and acceptable line of Adventist talk, and there were those who weren’t satisfied with the standard answers because they felt like there was more. In this class it just became so important for all of us to journey together down unfamiliar roads, and to be willing to be surprised by what we learned, let ourselves be the discomfort of uncovering something new and to let one question lead to another question lead to another question. Questions are good, and not having answers can be good too, because it means that your walk in search of it. I don’t remember exactly what the discussion was, but in response to a comment that was made in class, Dr. Hanna said, “I’ve never thought about it that way…I’ll have to think about that some more.” Thank you Dr. Hanna for in just a simple and honest answer, reaffirming that we can never come to the point where we’ve got it all figured out.
On occasion, it happens that a young person who has grown up in the church, seemingly involved, takes a turn in their life and no longer finds them satisfied with following along the footsteps of mom and dad. I recently overheard a conversation about a young man such as this, who for a good portion of his youth was highly involved in the church, but it was based on the desires and expectations of his parents not his own, and it wasn’t enough, so he stopped. He began to search for his own truth. In response to that, someone asked, “What kind of truth did he find?”
I can’t help but wonder what kind of freedom that young man had to ask the difficult questions, and perhaps come up with answers that, while still Biblical, they were just a little bit different from what was “ordinary.” What I’m trying to say is, what an incredible feeling of freedom I would feel, if I wasn’t sure about everything I believed in, and had a chance to sit in and listen to Dr. Hanna’s class. To ask questions that challenge us with issues like predestination, God’s will, Justification, our salvation in a way that we haven’t heard from the pulpit, or had our Sabbath school leaders read us the answers from the teachers quarterly, that would inspire me to first look for the truth that lay within the faith that I already belong to. It seems to me that when we provide a question and answer faith model to those that yearn and seek for more, we take away the daily discovery that God is still providing us, even the ‘very elect’ as we that guide others, we are still being led to understand at greater depths, as is our professor, as is anyone who he is also led by.
Final Paper Part 2:
One of the lectures that stands out most vividly in my mind is when we talked about how calling is related to God’s love (Romans 8:28), justification is related to God’s faith (Romans 5:1) and Glorification is related to God’s hope (Romans 5:2). Here are two points to comment on…first of all, the language that we use to understand the works of God. How can it be that a simple rearranging of words made me look at something completely different? What a powerful question it is to think, that if were created in the image of God, and are created to be beings that have faith, hope and love, we must have been given these gifts from God, who also has them. The aspect of his love is an easier concept to grasp, but to talk about God’s faith? God’s Hope? In the same way that it takes us faith and hope to look beyond the reality of this world and believe in God, could it be said, that it takes God’s faith and hope to look beyond the reality of our sin, and have faith and hope in us? While both Creator and created meet at the cross roads of the cosmos, the greater junction happens between calling and love. Where, God who exists on his own and accomplishes every ‘good and perfect work’ chooses to work in synergy with his created being, and that synergy happens out of love for us. We walk along side his riding mower with our toy mower that blows bubbles and he smiles down on us and we look up full of purpose and assurance that we’re involved.
In the order of salvation that we spent some time talking about in class, based on Romans 8:28-30, we talk about Foreknowledge, Predestination, Calling Justification and Glorification. While the first two are God’s work, we are introduced into the epic drama as we are called into his love, compelled by our love for Him, then in the rest of the story, His work in us is the resounding message. We answer the call, and from there, as we are in synergy with God, we carry our umbrellas, as we wait ‘in hope, by faith.’
When looking at Biblical language as a work of God, we discover that it is so because he has worked in synergy and monergy with human beings in order for us to be able to understand Him within what we know, that is to say, the cosmos. Within that, there is the method of, while it usually falls short to give us a complete understanding of God, we are better able to compare him to things we understand as humans, as we grapple with His “God-ness.” We compare the work we’ve done, the work we get to do along side Him, the work only He can do, and as we put all those pieces of the puzzle together, our whole perspective and understanding of God improves. We look at Him as the Potter, and we are the work of His hands (Jeremiah 18:1-6). He is the Good Sheppard (John 10:22-30). He is the Father and we are the prodigal children (Luke 15:11-32).
Final Paper Part 3:
The last couple of days in class, we discussed the importance of being able to communicate some of the things we’ve learned to the congregations and especially the new believers we work with. It is one of the vital aspects of the new perspectives we have, and as was mentioned in class, not just communicating it, but continually studying, and realizing what an intellectual endeavor it is. To go into the depths of God, how he communicates and exists in the cosmos, the language he uses, we’ll always be learning.
So let us endeavor to make asking the hard questions a part of what we do continually, so that we open ourselves to the fuller and deeper truths that God is waiting to reveal to us, let us ask the hard questions so that when we are asked, we can share part of what we know. We can guide people, not because we’ve got it all figured out, but because we’re learning to speak the language of the source of all truth.
Gitack Ju.
final test #1.
Rom 8:28-30 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknow, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
It was my privilege to attend this class of Dr. Hanna. This was my favorite class during summer session which is open my eye to see a small portion of eternal God. As I study more, God is become bigger and bigger. Actually this is my first semester in Andrews. Before I came here I was pastor in South Korea, and I preached to my beloved brother and sisters in Christ every Sabbath. As I cherish my pastoral experience, I was pretend to know all about God. I think that is all about God, but that is my big mistake and realized that it is more than sin. I didn’t know Him. I think I could understand Him little bit, but that is just my idea.
But He knows me. Not just knowing about my present life, He knows everything on my past and future. Foreknowledge basis on the faith, predestination basis on the hope, calling basis on Love, justification by faith, and Glorification by hope are the steps to save and redeem us from sin. Among that process, the love of God is center of all process. Love is valuable only in the present time. The experience of love in the past doesn’t mean anything. The plan of love also doesn’t mean either. Love is the matter of present.
Who was the person loved Jesus most in New Testament era? I think that is Marry Magdalene. She is the woman who had been caught in adultery.(Jn 8:4) She is the woman who anointed her costly perfume to Jesus’ feet.(Jn 12). She was the first person who came to the tomb of Jesus. Why does she come to tomb? Because of LOVE! All disciples lost their FAITH that Jesus will become the king of Jew. Because of His death, they all lost their HOPE for future. So they discouraged. But Marry Magdalene has the LOVE which is the center of salvation. She also lost the hope and faith, but she still has the love toward Jesus. So she went to the tomb which is cover with the big rock which she can’t move out. But unexpectedly she met the loving living Jesus. So she got the great privilege to see Jesus first after His resurrection. She was CALLED and free from the seven demons(Mk16:9), JUSTIFIED(Jn 8) and GLORIFIED (Jn 20)
When I read the Jn 12, I thought that her dedication (anointing the perfume) is deserved to Jesus because of sin of her past life and gracious forgiveness of Jesus. And I also think that forgiveness is totally the God’s monergical work. I thought that there is no space for synergy which is work with her and Jesus. And as I look at myself, and thought that my work is the synergy with Jesus. That is my big mistake. Everything is from His grace. My work is in vain. Jesus gave His life 100% to us. Marry Magdalene breaks her perfume bottle 100%. But I myself pour my perfume bottle half and keep it for myself. And I am keeping saying that myself work is synergy with Jesus.
As I study this lecture, I realized that I am worse than the Marry Magdalene. When I think my work is valuable to salvation, all my work is detestable to Jesus. All I can do is follow Him and love Him with all my heart. Which is also comes from ‘Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,’ says the Lord hosts’ (Zech4:6)
Gitack Ju
final test #2.
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last."
Human is the being of forgetting. If I learn something, I forget another thing. We try to remember the love of God who takes care us every day, but we are totally forget Him and think that I made it possible. God tells us His love though several ways. Though the nature (SC,89), though the providential working(SC 91p), His word, and Holy Spirit. He speaks us through the Creation, which is the place we live in, and see it everywhere. But God show more powerful and significant way which is through the Incarnation, the cross is the most powerful evidence to teach us the love of God. But as time goes by, we forgot it. So through the Bible which is in my hand today, inspired by God, tells us every day. So every day and everywhere, God speaks us that He loves us.
I, as a father of my two daughters, enjoy talking with them. And I talk to them that I love you. But without saying, I can show my love to them, like a preparing dinner, and buying cloths, and caring them at night while they are sleeping on the bed. But they always doubt their parent’s love. They didn’t think their faults and wrong doing, but complaint many ways.
About 3 month age, I was walking down a load to go somewhere with my wife. Suddenly I was heard my two daughters’ urgent voice from behind me. They were very afraid and shouted “Father, we can’t lock the bike’s wheels.’ As I looked back, my two daughters’ ride on the bike together and coming down fast on the hill. By instincts, I was turning back and hold the coming bike and my daughters. Because of the acceleration, though I pushed and hold the bike with my whole power, I was fell down and hit the road surface with my face. My wife was almost stunned watching my bloody face. But my precious two daughters were safe and not harmed at all. I am still having a scar on my face now. Whenever they saw my scar, they remember dad’s love for them.
As we see the most powerful evidence of God’s love, which is the cross of Jesus Christ, we fully understand God’s language. It speaks us loudly ‘I Love you’. It also speaks how dreadful sin is, which asked the sacrifices of God’s Son. That is the way of expression of God. Through the cross, God wants us to far away from sin, stop to commit the same sin again, but to come to God.
But we also forget the cross of love. So we need the work of Holy Spirits every moment. Without His illumination on everything of our life, we tend to incline to sin. As we listen to God’s word and as we also speak to God by praying, our relationship will be closer and closer. He will speak deeper thing. 'Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things, which you do not know.'(Jer 33:3)
Final exam #1
(1&2 questions)
1.Describe how your perspective on the works of God has changed or developed during your study this summer?
I do not know how to express my impression about “The Work of God” class. Third session gave me a special experience than I thought. I had a vague perspective about this class before I took it. I usually thought that the works of God is His some actions toward human being, but while I attend the class, I recognized that I can not dare to estimate spheres of the works of God as Isaiah 55:8-9 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.” Especially, it was very impressive that His thought including foreknowledge, predestination, justification, sanctification and Glorification is the work of God. I understood that it will be continued according to God who creates times and spaces. Dr. Martin Hanna gave me many insights to look at the bible. At the beginning the summer session, some of seminarian advised me not to take this lecture. They told me that because this lecture was so difficult and abstruse, I could not understand it. Of course, I had a problem of language but I thank our god for given me the new aspect about “the work of God.”
2.Mention some relevant Bible texts and show how your understanding of these texts has progressed.
One of the best points is that I could understand Genesis 3:22 in which I always had a question. Two years ago, I have taken a lecture of Pentateuch by a theology professor of southern college when I attended summer session in Korean Adventist University. At that time, I asked him and his interpreter that what this verse means. The bible said that “And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” I really wondered what the meaning of “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil” is. I could find according to Dr. Hanna’s class that the answer is His goodness and His foreknowledge. God knows good and evil (Gn3:22) but His action is always good. Men also know good and evil but their action are not good. He fore-knows it, but there is no evil in His. His law is good and holy, So He fore-know the evil according to goodness and the law.
Another Bible text is Rom 8:26-30 and Ep1:4-11. I thank Dr. Hanna giving me understanding of Foreknowledge and predefinition of these verses.
Final Exam 2
(3&4 question)
What have you learned about the interpretation of biblical language concerning the works of God? In what ways is biblical language itself a work of God?
I like this verse Rom8:31-32 “What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own son, but gave him up for us all who will he nor also, along with him, graciously hive us all things?”
I learned Him through the interpretation of biblical language. I can not understand the Works of God toward me, but I know that He is my God and He gave me all with His son. Sometimes I could not understand any parts by reason of language, but I am learning several biblical languages concerning the Works of God.
First of all, the bible is the word of God and the God, Himself (John 1:1-3). I know that it has strong power itself which makes me impression. And I am learning His goodness by the Spirit of God. And I am experiencing the incarnation of Jesus in me by the grace of God. And I have learned the Monergy and Synergy of Theos and Cosmos. I have learned the interpretation of biblical language concerning the works of God.
But the most important point is that He is my God, He gave my all, He is at work in me according to the Works of God.
It is true that biblical language is a work of God itself, because fore-knowledge, predefinition, calling, justification, sanctification and glorification are the works of God. We can not understand all things, He gave inspired his-breathed into the biblical language (2 Tim 3:16). I can feel the works of God which is doing in me, when the language which being living comes in my heart by Holy Spirit.
Actually, I have learned the impression and new perspectives, and I’ve got a fresh inspiration through this lecture.
Dr. Martin Hanna!
I thank you sincerely about your lecture. Even though I have some problems of language, I have learned many insights which I should use in my mission work after this seminary course. God may bless you.
Oliphant Herbert
Doctrine of God Paper #2
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I must continue by addressing the point of predestination in light of its different meanings. As mentioned in class predestination means will, purpose, freewill and intent. If we utilize all these meanings, we would be left with a lot more questions than we presently have. If we were predestined to freedom as God planned. Why as owner of the plan He never took charge fully?. Concerning the concept that deals with analogy I must agree it was murky initially and still needs more time to be critically assessed. However, It was refreshing to hear the concept that God is different from what He does or says everything. Everything we know about God has been revealed in the cosmos or creation. Outside of the cosmos we cannot know who God is hence where He (God) is he has revealed to us. To perceive the revelation of God it has to come in human form or else it would be difficult for us to understand if not impossible. It would also be above our heads and we could not explain it. Because of God condescending to humanity, we can use our limited and finite minds to express His revelation. Analogically we speak of God and we try our best to ascribe to Him His rightful authority with the best yet inadequate words or language we know. God extends his love to humanity gives them Grace although He transcends the universe and lives outside of it, but He came within its sphere gave humanity a fraction of his knowledge so man can utilize words to preach of him and point others to Him through the scriptures. He works “all in all” (Rom. 8:28)(1Cor.12:6) to be “all and in all” and then all his works must be understood to be working together for good for the justifying and glorifying of his beloved children.
The result in this is a God doing His best in and through his creation and resulting in a satisfactory Divine work of God. Biblical language therefore is itself a work of God because he utilizes finite beings by inspiring or breathing (2 Pet.1:21) on them and allowing them to take his infinite truth and present them despite man’s imperfections. This has proven Beneficial for both Man and God. Man, in the sense that the bible gives him hope in Christ, and God in the sense that he is well pleased when he convicts men of sin and lovingly sets them free. Hence, biblical language is itself a useful tool that God utilizes to save humanity and to expose His work of love. Although God does not need humans to work or validate His work He works in Synergy with man to accomplish His good pleasure. The above text indicates Synergy both with God and with man. While his work is being accomplished through His words with man as the vessel, he monergistically works out the conviction of the hearts of men, because man cannot convict himself. (John 16:8). (Ephesians 3:20-21)Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever! Amen.
Journal 4#
As I was looking over my notes I came across a discussion that was rather intriguing to me, that is the conversation about the infinite future. In the discussion the class came to the conclusion that the future is not set in stone and is changeable. However I think the discussion is based on a very strange assumption. That is, since God is all powerful then there can be no solid future. The problem is that I believe it's a false comparison. In my mind it's like one student saying the sky is blue but the other reprimands him saying that God is not limited by the color blue. The argument does not follow.
Part of the problem is also the fact that we don’t understand how time flows. From the perspective of the present we want to view time as always shifting, and for all general purposes it is. However when we try to look at a pinpointed event in the future we have to say that it’s “written in stone” If I were to travel into the future by 5 days I would see exactly what I would be doing even if I had not traveled in time. When God looks at time, in the context of the future He sees the culmination of choice. Wither choice for God or choice for sin. He sees His own actions and the reactions to His actions. Since God is perfect nothing else could be done different. Thus the future is always set in stone, unchangeable.
Gitack Ju said..
related Myeng's comments..
thank you for your very helpful comments about the incarnation of Jesus is the perfect expression and language of God.yes l believe so. one thing that i notice Jesus's word to people he use parables and he explained why he used that. "Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says： 'Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, And seeing you will see and not perceive; For the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing, And their eyes they have closed, Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, So that I should heal them.'But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear;" Matt 13:13-16.
human's language is very limited. but i believe that God hide the truth in creature that He created and sustains even now. that's why Jesus used the parable.even the creatures getting lose the true feature but we can get valuable lesson from it. (Ps 121:1-2)I will lift up my eyes to the hills--From whence comes my help? My help comes from the LORD, Who made heaven and earth.
Gitack Ju said...
it still needed personal interpretation.
the ten Commandment is the God's perfect revealation for human beings about His character. we believe that the each word of Commandment was inspired by God. but it was still needed to be translated by Jesus when he came as a human being among us. so even we have perfect Bible with us today, still we need Holy Spirits interpretatoins.
Jaehyun Kwon Said...
About Morris's reflection paper#2
He explained the predestination in connection with Dr. Hanna
I also do not understand the predestination of God, even though it is the works of God.
I don’t see the theological reason of predestination. but actually, I can understand it through the belief of Jesus. So, I think that he has held the Cross of Jesus in His heart, because of he know all things, He is almighty.
His nature is love, but he had the Cross of sadness. he predestined it. So He even foreknew the Cross. When I meditate this, the strong impression comes to me.
Amen.
Jaehyun, Kwon said ...
About Dr. Hanna's Lecture of Ge.3:22
I thank Dr. Hanna for understanding of Gen.3:22.
God is not evil but good. His nature is also good. He doesn’t know sin, but we can find some verses falsely charged. The bible said "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil"(Gen3:22).
I wondered how he knows good and evil. I though "do it mean that God has evil?" But that question is not harmonized with His nature.
But now!
I know that God is good and evil, but He do not evil.
What means?
He knows all things but He knows evil through His Good nature.
He cannot choose the evil because His nature is good.
It was very interesting for me. Of course even now
Amen.
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