Romans 1 seemed to contain the tension between human freedom (Arminian) and God's control (Calvin). Starting with Paul's self description of being a 'bond-servant' (1:1) does not present an image of freedom, but rather the opposite, being in bondage to Christ Jesus! Also, there seems to be some frustration for Paul who wants to visit Rome, but God seems to be controling the situation and not yet allowing Paul's desired trip (see 'will of God' 1:10).
Although human freedom is not explicitly stated (and this might be my SDA bias), the decriptions of human depravity and God's resulting wrath seem to assume human freedom that was abused and used for sin instead of acknowledging God. Thus God's wrath is a result of man 'suppressing the truth' (1:18), 'exchanging the truth of God for a lie' (1:25), men who 'did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer.' From this action of man, God seems to have REACTED in wrath to men who are 'without excuse' (1:20). The CAUSE (man's evil choices) and EFFECT (God's resulting wrath) seems to start with MAN's action, and God's response (hence free choice). 1:24 says 'THEREFORE God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts...,' 1:28 '... as they [man] did not see fit... God gave them over to a depraved mind.' This seems as if the 'ball is in man's court' with God's wrath resulting from our inexcusable choices, in light of nature clearly revealing who God is (1:20).
A QUESTION I have is with regard to 1:18 where the 'wrath of God is revealed.' Does that mean the wrath was already there but hidden, God knowing (or perhaps predestinating) men to make evil choices and then revealing His wrath, which was already in existence but somehow hidden until it was 'revealed'? Like the wrath already there and God was hiding it until everybody else could see the evil actions of those men? I would love some feedback from a Calvinist on this one, but for now I'll take feedback from a bunch of fellow SDA seminarians.
I read the BRI article titled Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification Larry J. Kane.
He had some very good points in the article and clearly showed that Romans 3:23-24 cannot be used to establish universal justification. He also did a great job looking at Romans 5 and 8.
It is apparent from Mr. Kane’s article that there are some serious weaknesses in the 1888 Message Study Committee’s position. However, as I read Mr. Kane’s article, it seemed to me that there was something missing. I’m not exactly sure what it was, but some questions that I think are relevant to this discussion of Universal Justification never seem to have been asked or dealt with. Unless I just simply missed them in the article, I did not see anything addressing the issue of: What implication(s) does the Sacrifice and the Messianic promise of Genesis 3:15, 21 have on this discussion of Universal Justification, if any? In other words, what was it about the sacrifice of Christ that enabled God to not immediately execute the divine sentence “In the day you eat thereof ye shall surely die?”
One common and I believe true answer is that: they did begin to die that very day, they began the “process” of dying. I believe that is true. But, in addition to this, I think there is more to it as well. The sacrifice of Christ provided a way for Adam and Eve to have a second chance that normally would not have been there had Christ not specially interposed. Another aspect tied to this question is: what was it specifically about the Sacrifice of Christ that enabled God to immediately place the “enmity” between the woman and the devil?” Without the sacrifice of Christ, could God have placed that enmity there? If not, then what specifically was it—what shall we call it—that He did for ALL of humanity, both believers and unbelievers alike? It seems to me, in light of Romans 6:16, the Sacrifice of Christ had to provide some sort of a “shield” or “provision” or whatever you want to call it, for ALL of sinful humanity before they were even capable of exercising faith. Whether that shield could be called a certain type of justification, I don’t know. Another question to ask then is this: If Christ did not provide some sort of Universal provision for ALL of humanity, then why is it that the wicked receive a “resurrection” after the millennium? Christ said He is the resurrection and the life, and the wicked had nothing to do with Christ—they outright rejected Him, that’s why they're called the “wicked”, so why are they going to experience a resurrection if indeed Christ’s sacrifice did not provide some sort of Universal provision for all of humanity—even them? Are you catching my point???
Romans 6:16, when applied to the case of Adam and Eve, clearly tells us that at the moment they yielded to Satan, they became his total and complete servants. There was NO enmity between them, there was NO disunity. God, by virtue of the Sacrifice of Christ, had to PUT that enmity there. And, whatever it may be called, the sacrifice of Christ is what allowed for that. Dare it be termed Universal Justification, I don’t know. It certainly can’t be called that if it necessarily must be interpreted as the 1888 Study Committee does because I think they have totally missed the ball as well by trying to bend and twist Scriptures that don’t fit to prove their point.
The seed that I am dropping is as Dr. Hanna would put it, “You need to get a bigger model.” I believe that Mr. Kane’s explanation did not adequately address the issue. I think it is very clear that that certain type of justification that clears our slate and allows us to stand before God individually as if we had never sinned is by faith—that is undisputable in the light of Scripture. But, that’s not the issue. The issue is what shall we call that thing that God did way back at the inception of sin (or perhaps before the inception of sin in His plans for the Sacrifice of Christ) that would allow Him to let sinners live and keep on sinning while allowing them a chance to learn, grow, and hopefully come to a knowledge of the loving Savior and turn and repent of their sins, accept the Savior, and gain the victory over those sins before their probation ran out? It was a “Universal _______” something…and whether we call it Universal Justification or whatever, we had better have a model of hermeneutics and Salvation that allows for an explanation of it.
Articles Read: “Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White” by Angel Manuel Rodríguez Romans 1 Ellen White On Salvation, Chapters 1,2.
Reflection:
In his paper, Rodriguez discusses the issue of ‘original sin’ as addressed in Ellen White’s writings and what was really passed from Adam to the entire human family. To understand the issue of sin and salvation I think it’s important to investigate the root of the problem as this would give clues to the solution.
Of all the consequences of sin—separation from God, loss of privileges, slavery to sin death and misery—what I found most troubling about her statements is the intimation that if Adam had rejected Jesus as substitute then the whole human family would be doomed.
Here’s the quote: “"Then it was that the great love of God was expressed to us in one gift, that of His dear Son. If our first parents had not accepted the gift, the race would today be in hopeless misery. But how gladly did they hail the promise of the Messiah. It is the privilege of all to accept this Saviour, to become children of God, members of the royal family and to sit at last at God's right hand." ("Seek First the Kingdom of God," Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, October 27, 1885, par. 4.)
Does this mean that if Adam had rejected God’s offer of a Saviour then I wouldn’t have a similar opportunity? I could “understand” how as representative of the human race then all his descendants inherited his sinful nature but I still find this statement troubling.
It’s clear to me that Ellen White never thought that we were somehow ‘inside’ Adam when he sinned so we are guilty of HIS sins, but we have inherited his guilt as far as CONSEQUENCES are concerned. (So “results not participation.”)
Not only was Adam’s sin passed on to his posterity but it affected the whole of nature even when he was not biologically connected to it. This would indicate to me that human sinfulness is more than a biological phenomenon. The sin problem would therefore require ‘more than nature’ (supernatural intervention) to fix it.
In fact, Paul reminds us in Romans 1 that sin is indeed universal and we are helpless without the Gospel to remedy it. Without the Gospel we would be “given over to our own minds” (vs. 24, 26) which would naturally lead to self destruction. We need a second Adam to rescue us.
Whether through the writings of Ellen White or the Bible salvation is as much a mystery as the origins of sin in a perfect universe. This doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t wrestle with the subject, for in so doing we can see new pictures of God’s will to save us. And the things He reveals are indeed for us and our children. (Deut. 29:29)
In the last class the question was raised as to whether the process of sanctification would continue throughout eternity as glorification would. I think if you define ‘sanctification’ in terms of becoming more secure in God’s love then the answer is “YES!” The more we learn of God the more we would fall in love with Him and the more secure his universe would be so that sin would not arise a second time. (Nahum 1:9)
Material Covered: Ellen White on Salvation, Ch. 1; Romans 1 Response: In the first chapter of Whidden’s book, I appreciated that the author was careful to outline his methodology for attacking the issue at hand, as well as stating his own goals in research. Although I felt he wasted ink in lamenting the difficulties of the research project. Research is always hard, isn’t it? There were a couple of his comments I especially appreciated. On page 9, he states his belief people need to, “take a more comprehensive look at what she had to say, rather than constantly mulling over our favorite statements.” The statement may be simple, but it articulates an important truth. It seems that people gravitate toward statements and texts that fit their personalities or perspectives, without looking at a bigger picture. I also appreciate Whidden’s methodology in approaching this study chronologically. This sets him apart from other works I’ve read, but it seems profoundly appropriate. Even Ellen White evolved in her understanding, or maybe just articulation, of salvation. I suspect that tracing the chronological development of her own thinking aid significantly in building a comprehensive model of salvation. The major problem I have with this chapter is when the author likens the balance between justification and perfection to that of a teeter-totter. In my mind, that conjures up opposing forces on opposite poles. It seems that justification and perfection do not function as opposing forces, but instead are complimentary. I still do not have an adequate replacement model, but I hope to develop it in the coming weeks. On a different note, Romans 1:25 struck me as a simple, practical definition of sin. Worshipping and serving the creature rather than the Creator. I’m sure we can get much more technical in our definition, but as I consider sharing the good news of salvation to my church members, this simple definition of the sin problem makes a lot of sense to me.
Student: Geraldine C. O’Neal THST540 Doctrine of Salvation Professor: Dr. Hanna Date: September 7, 2007
Reflection Paper of the Salvation Dilemma/ E.G. White on Salvation “The discussion of Adam and the Human Race in Writings of E. G. White” by A.G. Rodriquez were thought provoking for me. He spoke of the effects of sin and the separation of which it caused. “Sin brought on a separation.” He stated that the Lord would not commune with Adam, since the human race had been cut off from this high privilege. When I look at that in the Bible I see a loving God still in pursuit of his erring children in that he kept his appointment in the garden the same as always, calling to Adam, where are you? Adam responded and gave excuses for his actions. So there was still open dialogue. I am happy that God did not just cut them off completely without ever speaking to them again. He could have just left them completely naked and fully under the control of the enemy of their souls. However, this loving and merciful God clothed their nakedness and helped them to understand the immediate results of their actions. But this lesson teaches us to never excuse or justify sin because the mending and restoration process cannot be effective unless we admit our guilt. Because of Christ, humans can be victorious over the power of sin. "Because fallen man could not overcome Satan with his human strength. Christ came from the royal courts of heaven to help him with His human and divine strength combined. . . . He obtains for the fallen sons and daughters of Adam that strength which is impossible for them to gain for themselves, that in His name they may overcome the temptations of Satan." Through Christ we receive power to overcome our fallen nature.” Rodriquez E.G. White on Salvation: A Chronological Study by Whidden, brought a reminder of my early experiences in the Methodist Church. Coming from a Methodist background allows me somewhat of an understanding of the conversion struggle that Ellen G. White experienced. Realizing that Christ came to call sinners to repentance and that if we declare our iniquity and be sorry for our sins then faith in the promise that Godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation might lead one to ask, “Why the struggle?” What comes to mind is the Evangelistic meetings called “Revival meetings” that were held annually. There, the front row, “the mourner’s bench” was reserved exclusively for people, usually youth who were not baptized, but who had a desire to be saved. They would sit on this row confessing their sins to God, bowing and agonizing frequently in prayer and tears. They would continue to go back night after night until they received either an inner confirmation or a confirmation from a family member, pastor or church member, of a breakthrough, followed by water baptism. A song still dear to my heart was mentioned in this reading, one that we frequently sang: ”Is your All On The Altar of Sacrifice Laid?” I will share the words of this revival hymn for your reflection.
Words by : Elisha A. Hoffman
Is Your All On the Altar?
You have longed for sweet peace, And for faith to increase, And have earnestly, fervently prayed;
But you cannot have rest, Or be perfectly blest, Until all on the altar is laid.
Chorus Is your all on the altar of sacrifice laid? Your heart does the Spirit control? You can only be blessed, And have peace and sweet rest, As you yield Him your body and soul.
Would you walk with the Lord, In the light of His Word, And have peace and contentment alway? You must do His sweet will, To be free from all ill, On the altar your all you must lay.
Chorus
O we never can know What the Lord will bestow Of the blessings for which we have prayed, Till our body and soul He doth fully control, And our all on the altar is laid.
Chorus
Who can tell all the love He will send from above, And how happy our hearts will be made, Of the fellowship sweet We shall share at His feet, When our all on the altar is laid.
Is Your All On the Altar? I conclude this report with that all important question for our reflection personally and collectively. Collectively, for unity to exist, we must be in one accord to receive the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. If we are to receive the manifestation of God to the fullest, we must put away strife and bickering over doctrine in the chruch and accept the light that God has given through His word and His messenger. On a personal note it is necessary for us to make a full surrender of all passions and pride. Lord Help Us Is My Prayer!
I thought that it was interesting that after the fall of sin that Adam and Eve could not trace the character of God in salvation. Through the fall of man the spiritual perceptions were dimmed and that is one reason why at times it is hard to understand from the Bible about salvation. The section on slavery to sin helps define sin. It is a power of man that causes man to have “propensities to evil.” This is one part of the definition and it helps us to understand what God is saving us from.
I am grateful that the solution to the human problem of sin is summed up in the gift of Jesus. This gift is the basis of our salvation and it can be the foundation as we discuss about salvation. I had not thought about it before that because Adam and Eve accepted God’s gift of salvation that means the gift was offered to all of his descendants. I am not sure where in the Bible that is supported.
The BRI article talks about Jesus standing in Adam’s place and taking the penalty for sin. This can help us understand better about salvation as we keep this in mind. While talking about overcoming the power of sin the article reminds us that it is important to realize that it is only through Christ’s strength that this happens. This gives hope to me because I have tried to do it on my own and have found out that it doesn’t work that way.
I appreciate that the book by Whidden encourages the reader to take a look at the whole picture and not only focus on our pet prejudices. I agree that it is important to check the context when we look at what Ellen White is saying about salvation. I am curious to know what Ellen White meant when she said that you cannot have justification without perfection. I think that this book will have a different approach than many studies since it said that it is a developmental and historical study.
Commenting on: * BRI Document: Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, “Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White” * Class notes 8/29 * Romans 1,2 * Whidden; Introduction & Chapter 1 “The Salvation Dilemma: How Shall We Proceed?”
Whidden’s reader may be impressed with his perseverance through the more than 25 million plus[1] words of E.G. White (published and unpublished) to write a book on the subject of E.G. White on Salvation. Could the “persevering” and “examining” diligence to write this document be a hint of Armenian thoughts? Could Whidden be appealing to his readers to gain “joy, and peace… with intense person study”?(pg 9) Do research “tribulations” bring about perseverance, “and perseverance, proven character, and proven character, hope.” (Rom 5:3-5). [2] I think it might be… but only onward-reading will tell.
Paul seems to lean toward the Armenian way as well. Paul’s description of those that “suppress the truth by their wickedness”(Rom 1:18) exhibiting the their “slavery to sin”[3] (cf Rom 1:21-27) gives his reader the idea that there are those that know God’s righteous decrees but “choose” to go against them. Furthermore, there are those that “choose” God’s way but are ignorant of God’s rules or law (Rom 2:14). Therefore, God chosen are those that choose His ways, whether by letter or naturally. Choice for or against God seems to be the Roman road – at least for now… but only onward-reading will tell.
1 Whidden, Woodrow W., Ellen White on Salvation: A Chronological Study, (Hagerstown, MD: 1995) 9.
2 Hanna, Martin, Class notes for Doctrine of Salvation THST540, Theological Seminary, Andrews University, Berrien Springs, Michigan, Fall Semester 2007. “Perseverance as a condition” is a type of Biblical text heading (Rom 5:3-5, 2 Tim 3:12) that is of Armenian type (Free to choose whether or not we want salvation or in this case whether or not we want understanding and peace and joy.)
3 Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, “Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White”, Under the subheading of “New Condition: Slavery to Sin;” Rodríguez writes“Something mysteriously evil happened to human nature itself that resulted in its enslavement under the power of sin. "In transgression Adam became a law to himself. By disobedience he was brought under bondage.” Adam made his own choice to sin.
Dale Baker Articles Read: “Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White” by Angel Manuel Rodríguez Romans 1 Ellen White On Salvation, Chapters 1,2.
Reflection Paper
Salvation is something that every human being stands in need of even more than basic needs. One of the authors made it clear that since the time of Adams fall, man has been standing in need of salvation and deliverance from sin. Clearly, Adam lost many of his privileges and even became enslaved under the yoke of sin. Man was now afraid of the future, afraid of what his fate would be. This fear of the future and what ones fate would be was seen in the experience of Ellen White who had great struggles in feeling accepted by God, and sanctified by God. Therefore, Ellen White like all of us had to learn what it means to be accepted by God. She like us today had to realize that salvation and righteousness has to do with total faith and trust in God. Adam failed to trust God and we at times tend to curse him, but we have to remember that we too must exercise faith in God and that we are put to the test every day and there is need also for us to overcome. Therefore, as we said in class that salvation is a process and we all are striving for perfection. However, I strongly believe that this can only be accomplished by faith. One thing I wonder, is salvation only by faith and faith alone? I mean if we have faith what else do we need?
Romansi Chapters 1&2 from Ellen White on Salvation. Article Read: “Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White” by Angel Manuel Rodríguez
Form Debbedo, Romans 1 contains some precious gems that will broaden the genuine seeker's comprehension and assurance of salvation. It presents the universal sinfulness of man, shows that every human being is guilty, and is deserving of the wrath of God both Jews and Gentiles, (gentiles in chapter1 and the Jews in chapter2). Paul in Rom. 1:5 reveal the falling short of every man from the grace of God, says the apostle “through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles, for His name's sake.” Here Paul shows that some who have fallen from grace have accepted the grace Jesus offers and are now commissioned to share this grace with all the Gentiles or nations for the purpose of obedience that results through faith. Clearly, grace is required to go to every nation because each one had fallen from grace. In other words, God through His Son Jesus has extended grace to every man because each one has come short of His will and is in need of grace to bring him back in harmony with the will of God. This is one of the things that Rodriguez points out in his article, that Adam because of his surrender to sin his nature became sinful. Sadly, every human being inherited this sinful nature, thus, “all are born in sin and shapen in iniquity.”
Paul points out in the chapter that God has taken the initiative to save man even though they are disinterested in Him and have set themselves to do all sorts of abominable things, (Rom. 1:18-31). In verse 5, he shows that it is Jesus who has taken the initiative to extend grace to “all nations,” and points out in verse 17 that God has revealed how man can receive His righteousness and be made righteous or be saved. Paul meticulously shows that it is God who reveals His righteousness. Therefore, there is no way that anyone could find out, search out and obtain this righteousness if God did not reveal it. Hence, the point is clear salvation is God initiated. Salvation origin is of God and not of man!
Another eternal gem about salvation embedded in Romans 1 is that a person receives salvation by faith, (Rom.1:16, 17). Faith or belief is all it takes to become a recipient of salvation, no works or qualifications are needed infact there is nothing man can do to earn this precious gift. God gives even the very faith that is needed by man to receive salvation; hence, there can be no room for boasting.
Paul further shows that the faith, which lay holds on salvation, is purposeful. Its purpose is to produce obedience to God’s will, says the apostle “through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles, for His name's sake.” Therefore, the erroneous concept that a person who has been saved needs not to be obedient to the law or will of God is unscriptural. Virtually, the faith that lay holds on salvation is the same faith that leads the sinner to be obedient to God. Summation 1. Salvation is God initiated and originated. 2. Salvation is received through faith. 3. The faith that lay holds on salvation leads the recipient to obedience to God.
Romans 1 Chapters 1&2 from Ellen White on Salvation. Article Read: “Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White” by Angel Manuel Rodríguez
Form Debbedo, Romans 1 contains some precious gems that will broaden the genuine seeker's comprehension and assurance of salvation. It presents the universal sinfulness of man, shows that every human being is guilty, and is deserving of the wrath of God both Jews and Gentiles, (gentiles in chapter1 and the Jews in chapter2). Paul in Rom. 1:5 reveal the falling short of every man from the grace of God, says the apostle “through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles, for His name's sake.” Here Paul shows that some who have fallen from grace have accepted the grace Jesus offers and are now commissioned to share this grace with all the Gentiles or nations for the purpose of obedience that results through faith. Clearly, grace is required to go to every nation because each one had fallen from grace. In other words, God through His Son Jesus has extended grace to every man because each one has come short of His will and is in need of grace to bring him back in harmony with the will of God. This is one of the things that Rodriguez points out in his article, that Adam because of his surrender to sin his nature became sinful. Sadly, every human being inherited this sinful nature, thus, “all are born in sin and shapen in iniquity.”
Paul points out in the chapter that God has taken the initiative to save man even though they are disinterested in Him and have set themselves to do all sorts of abominable things, (Rom. 1:18-31). In verse 5, he shows that it is Jesus who has taken the initiative to extend grace to “all nations,” and points out in verse 17 that God has revealed how man can receive His righteousness and be made righteous or be saved. Paul meticulously shows that it is God who reveals His righteousness. Therefore, there is no way that anyone could find out, search out and obtain this righteousness if God did not reveal it. Hence, the point is clear salvation is God initiated. Salvation origin is of God and not of man!
Another eternal gem about salvation embedded in Romans 1 is that a person receives salvation by faith, (Rom.1:16, 17). Faith or belief is all it takes to become a recipient of salvation, no works or qualifications are needed infact there is nothing man can do to earn this precious gift. God gives even the very faith that is needed by man to receive salvation; hence, there can be no room for boasting.
Paul further shows that the faith, which lay holds on salvation, is purposeful. Its purpose is to produce obedience to God’s will, says the apostle “through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles, for His name's sake.” Therefore, the erroneous concept that a person who has been saved needs not to be obedient to the law or will of God is unscriptural. Virtually, the faith that lay holds on salvation is the same faith that leads the sinner to be obedient to God. Summation 1. Salvation is God initiated and originated. 2. Salvation is received through faith. 3. The faith that lay holds on salvation leads the recipient to obedience to God.
Marcus Malcolm Vassell Dr, Martin Hanna THST540 Doctrine of Salvation September 8, 2007 Well, let me begin where the reading began, with the first chapter of Romans. There are a number of places in that chapter where I could drop my anchor and muse for a while, but I want to reflect briefly on Paul’s words right in verse one, “set apart for the gospel of God” (NASB). Those words have rung in my ear all week as though Paul himself were asking me (taunting me, rather), “Marcus, tell me, what exactly are you set apart to? Is it to a career? Is it to a vision of professional prestige? Or, could it be to a hope of financial security? Are you really, from your heart, separated like me to the gospel of God?” And such a string of queries has proven most effective in disrupting the flow of my day and my personal grand scheme. It has become quite routine for me to conduct an introspective survey on whether or not I am separated from sin, keeping away from things and people that might make me vulnerable to temptation. But when what then? So what if I am keeping away from all the negative influences in my environment. There are other questions to ask and the telling question is, “what am I set apart to?” The gospel of God, or, to goodies? I want to be able to say with confidence one day that I am indeed, set apart, whole-heatedly, to the Gospel of God – the Good News of His saving Son. But then I must ask myself, if after I arrive at the place where I can exclaim with Paul that I am set apart to the gospel of God, then the next thing for me to investigate is, to what gospel am I espoused to? Whidden makes a very brave but true statement when he asserts that “our witness cannot be effective if we are not clear on what the gospel is…” (8). And, I imagine that while many of us are heavily and heatedly involved in the debate about perfection that quite a few of us are not clear on what the gospel is really about. A bold indictment, you say. Yes, indeed, but the finger is also pointed at me, too. Along the same sobering lines are Heppenstall’s words, that “the believer is never beyond the reach of temptation or the possibility of sinning” (How Perfect Is Perfect). Sobering, indeed, because that means that here, on this planet, in this lifetime, Marcus will never get to the place where he can boast about arriving at some elevated state of immunity to sin. I must every day and every moment embrace the grace that the Jesus provides for me or else I will fall victim to the merciless demands of sin that is both in me and in the world.
Name: Desmond C. Haye Course: Doctrine of Salvation Things read: Romans 1, and “Ellen White and Salvation” by Whidden.
The apostle Paul in Romans 1 presents to his readers the universal sinfulness of man, and the universal grace of God in providing a way of escape. The apostle sought to bring to the readers mind the fact that due to our sinful condition we are estranged form God. This estrangement has led us into deep depravity; and but for the grace of Christ we would be eternally lost. God therefore reveals His righteousness to mankind through the Gospel of Jesus Christ in order to rescue fallen man. I see in these verses the hound of heaven reaching down to sinful man, in an effort to lift him up from his destitute state. In so doing God reveals His righteousness which Paul speaks of in a general sense. The apostle also states that the righteousness of God “is being revealed.” The present tense which is used in this context suggests continuous action. And so, it would be safe to say the righteousness of God was revealed through the sacrificial death of Christ, and is still being revealed in the proclamation of the gospel, and will be revealed more fully when we see Jesus face to face. In the remaining verses of Romans I Paul balances the equation by declaring that just as how the righteousness of God is the revealed so is His wrath against ungodliness. Paul, in his discourse gave fair treatment to the subject matter. This I believe was intentionally done in an effort to help his readers understand that even though God is a God of love he is also a God of justice, and judgment. God does not force his love upon human beings, but desires us to exercise our free will. So those who refuse to receive His love by withdrawing from Him will ultimately receive of His wrath. The challenge from this chapter to us is will we accept His righteousness?
A response to Larry J. Kane’s article…An Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification.
I don’t believe in objective justification or “Legal” Justification…at least, the way it is presented here…the whole idea that all the world is justified by the blood of Jesus and that they are justified and going to heaven whether they want to or not. Contrary to what Kane writes, E.J. Waggoner didn’t believe that either…period. It’s clear…Romans 8:1 tells us that there is no condemnation for those who are “in Christ”…for those who “do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.” So there is condemnation for those who walk according to the Spirit.
I’m just not convinced that Waggoner was advocating a view of “justification” that dispensed of man’s necessity to respond to Jesus’ sacrifice with faith. I’m not sure what the 1888 MSC maintains on this matter, but Waggoner clearly states in “Waggoner on Romans” (which is an 1888 MSC publication) what his views were on Romans 3:24…where Paul wrote that we are “being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:” Waggoner’s comment on this verse is…“Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” That is, let him take it as a gift. So in Isaiah 55:1: “Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.” “It was the Epistle to the Romans that accomplished the Reformation in Germany. Men had been taught to believe that the way to get righteousness was to purchase it either by hard work or by the payment of money. The idea that men may purchase it with money is not so common now as then: but there are very many who are not Catholics who think that some work must be done in order to obtain it.”
The landscape and context of Waggoner’s ministry included a Seventh-day Adventist Denomination that was so preoccupied with the Law that they had lost their focus (if they had ever had it) on “Jesus Christ and Him crucified.” 1 Corinthians 2:2. Around the same time Waggoner came on the scene, Ellen White said that we as a church had been so preoccupied with the Decalogue (and not the Cross) that we had become dry as the hills of Gilboa. Kane continues to build his case against 1888 MSC by presenting their supposed view of “Legal Justification” of Romans 5:18 where Paul writes, “Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.” But I would like to draw your attention to Waggoner’s words on the next verse…verse 19, Paul continues, “For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.” Let’s take a look at Waggoner’s comments on verse 19 to see whether or not he believed in “Legal Justification” or (everyone is justified whether they want to be or not). Waggoner writes, “The text says that “by the obedience of One shall many be made righteous.” Some one may ask, “Why are not all made righteous by the obedience of One?” The reason is that they do not wish to be. If men were counted righteous simply because One was righteous eighteen hundred years ago, then all would have be righteous by the same obedience. Re would be no justice in counting righteousness to one and not to all, if it were in that way. But we have seen that it is not so.”
In order to be fair...Kane should allow Waggoner's commentary on Romans 3:23,24 and 5:12-19 to speak for itself. You simply can't make a case against someone without hearing what they have to say.
This week I read the article Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White as well as the first two chapters of Ellen White on Salvation and the chapter in Romans. I didn’t find too much of these that we have already discussed in class but there were some things that really jumped out at me in the book and article. I had never really thought about how strong almost dying affected Ellen Harmon. I know a bit about her story and I know that her sister also was a Christian and had been taken in to the Methodist church on a kind of probation period but after their family was kicked out of the church she lost all interest in the church. It is amazing that both girls had such a different experience but I noticed that God used a bad experience for Ellen to shape her into the kind of person he needed for the job she had to do. This also moves into my second thought which came from the article. There are two quotes that are rather interesting, “It is the very ‘nature of sin to spread and increase. Since the first sin of Adam, from generation to generation it has spread like a contagious disease.’[15] Satan prevailed on Adam to sin, ‘thus at its very source human nature was corrupted.’ Consequently, Adam's descendants could not inherit from him what he did not have after the fall” and “human being ‘could not overcome Satan with his human strength. . . . [I]t was not possible for man, out of Eden, separated from the light and love of God since the fall to resist the temptations of Satan in his own strength.’” I have done some thinking on the story of Nebechadezer over the last couple of years or so. I was sitting in a Sabbath School class and someone asked a question that at that time I didn’t have an answer for. The question was when God turned him into a beast for a number of years, and afterwards he was then converted, was God stepping over the bounds of freedom of choice? I used this question in a sermon that a preached a couple of weeks later. I had to really think about it and I came to the conclusion that God has to interfere in our life to give us the freedom of choice. We are headed in the wrong direction from our birth and it is God’s interference that gives us the possibility of a different road. This was quite a revelation for me. I would welcome your comments on this. Thanks all and I am sorry for being a little late this week. I forgot all about it until yesterday and I don’t have internet at home. Have a great week. Jamie Peterson
The concept of salvation has been an area of enormous debate in Christendom from the inception of the concept. Adventism is to exception to the various opinions and conclusions on the subject. In reflecting on the readings I have done this week, I could not help but revisit my early and mid teens when I wanted so much to be a perfect young Christian but find myself not being able to attain that perfection. It was frustrating, because the first Elder of my church at the time preached perfection, I later realized that he himself was not even close to being perfect. As time went on I realized that I was not alone in this struggle, neither was it a new struggle in Adventism. As readings pointed out, it was there with the founder. E. G. White has her own struggles. Her dealings with the fanatics and perfectionist remind me of my dealings of some of the Elders and older members of my church. I am Happy for E.G white’s quest to understand the subject and the way God has led her. I think the reason for our problem is that we as sinners had difficulty accepting the instantaneousness of salvation. We have divided it up into stages; justification, sanctification, glorification, etc. oftentimes one is that sure at what stage he or she is or if one stage is more important that the other. Base on the readings, I believe the long and short of salvation is that sin separated man from God and enslaved him, thus defacing the image of God. God offers man restoration through Jesus Christ in whom man must believe in order for that salvation to be realized. This work of salvation will reach perfection at the end of time when Jesus comes again. I would like to understand the process of salvation with all its nuances of terminology in a way that I can explain them. But I am comforted to know that knowing what Jesus did for me and accepting it is basic and is all I really need.
Articles Read: • “Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White” by Angel Manuel Rodríguez • “Ellen White on Salvation” by Woodrow Whidden, Chapters 1-4 • Romans 1,2
In his article, Mr. Rodriguez sought to give the reader a better understanding of what Ellen White had to say concerning the effects and results Adam’s sin had upon all humanity and the entire world. I was able to follow through in agreement with most of the article, but there were a few points upon which I needed to ponder. Of interesting note was the section on “Adam as Representative of the Human Race.” From Ellen White’s statement we learn that “the Sabbath was committed to Adam, the father and representative of the whole human family.” Rodríguez went on to expound that Adam was expected to instruct his descendents in observance of the Sabbath. At first I was puzzled as to the need for Adam to do this especially since we are told God came down and walked and talked with them in the cool of the garden. Wouldn’t Adam’s descendents be happy to gather around and learn from God himself? However, upon giving it more thought I reasoned that God’s plan is for parents to instruct their children in the ways of God; and so it was actually an honor bestowed upon Adam, as father of mankind, to instruct his descendents not only in keeping the Sabbath, but in all the ways of God. I foresee a deep bond and trust being created between parent and children as a result of this responsibility.
I wrestled with Rodríguez’s section on “Adam’s Hope and the Hope of the Human Race” where he mentions that if our parents had not accepted God’s offer of forgiveness, salvation and restoration, the race would today be in hopeless misery. I wrestled with this because the overarching idea seems to be that if Adam had rejected God’s offer of restoration all his descendents would have been doomed with no hope for any restoration. In essence, this would hinge salvation and restoration of the race upon Adam’s acceptance instead of upon Jesus’ atonement. What if Adam and Eve did reject God’s offer? Would that then mean that Jesus would not have come and there would be no hope of salvation today for you and me?
Over the past two weeks Professor Martin Hanna has been stimulating my mind regarding the
subject of Soteriology. As we explore the introductory tenets of the subject it is clear to me that the is
yet much for me to learn. It is clear that Salvation is the study of how a triune God intervened in the
affairs of mankind in order to redeem a fallen race. While this is a very simplistic view of the subject; it
gives a realistic view of God’s intention and mankind’s opportunity. The issue becomes profound as we
venture into how is salvation effected? By whom? Is God’s sovereignty present in Soteriology or is it
part of the definition of soteriology? When does the process begin and when does it end? Is there a
process or is it a single transaction- signed sealed and delivered at Calvary? Does God require that ‘we
do in order to receive’ or is it a done deal whether we do right or wrong? Are there stages of growth in
soteriology?
Christians all through the Ages have contemplated, agonized and struggled with the aforementioned
questions and many, many more regarding the subject. Woodrow W. Whidden in his book Ellen White
on Salvation (P. ) cites that she had become so perturbed about the issue that “she was so burdened
that she confided to her brother Robert that she “coveted death” in the days when life seemed so
burdensome. In contemplated the issues of Salvation … her mind was terror-stricken with the thought
that she might die in her sinful state and be lost eternally.”
The truth is, that Salvation can be viewed from many angles and contemplated under various aspects, but from whatever side we look at it we must ever remember that 'Salvation is of Adonai.' Salvation was planned by the Father for His elect before the foundation of the world. It was purchased for them by the holy life and vicarious death of His incarnate Son. It is applied to and wrought in them by His Holy Spirit. It is known and enjoyed through the study of the Scriptures, though the exercise of faith, and through communion with our faith community and indwelling presence of the triune God of the universe.
(Corrections for my last entry) Wow! I blew it on my last entry...At the end of my first paragraph I mistakenly said that Paul teaches in Romans 8:1 that there is condemnation for those who walk according to the Spirit…I meant to say that there is condemnation for those who walk according to the flesh. My apologies.
In addition to that...After going back over Kane's article...An Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification...I realized that I completely misunderstood Kane's views toward Waggoner...he was actually supporting his views...that Jesus did shed his blood for all the world, but that we must enter into his new covenant by faith. I agree with Kane, the individual must respond to Christ's invitation. Jesus simply won't force us into heaven. But He's doing everything He can to get us there.
It looks like I agree with Kane more than I thought...I don’t believe in Universal “Legal” Justification, at least in the sense that all the world is justified by the blood of Jesus whether they want to be or not.
If that is what the 1888 MSC believe then I don't agree with them. The only thing is, I've studied with a lot of folks who are advocates of the 1888 MSC and none of them believe that we are saved apart from faith. On the contrary...in my brief experience the 1888 MSC supporters have usually been the biggest proponents of cultivating faith in Jesus. They've always been the most godly people in the church I pastored.
But I do understand we must be careful when presenting the gospel...careful not to present a gospel that leads to liscentious living.
Kane presents Romans 5:12-18 as 1888 MSC key proof text for their belief in Legal Justification. The crux of what Paul says in these verses is found in verse 18 where he says..."Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."
Paul is not negating the fact that the individual must accept this free gift by faith...and I'm not convinced that the 1888 MSC group is either. I met quite a few supporters of the 1888 MSC at my previous church...they were the spiritual leaders in my old church...no question about it...they remain the most Christlike people I've met to date. So I have a difficult time accepting that the 1888 MSC is teaching or advocating a salvation or justifcation that diminishes the sinners need to exercise faith in Jesus.
Again my apologies for misrepresenting Kane's views earlier.
Romans 2 came out very strong for me about the whole judging others. To a point, whether it's predestination or free choice, all of us need to reserve our judgements and show the kind of loving kindness that 'leads people to repentence' (2:4). Just recently I was at a church retreat of a different denomination and the weekend went pretty good until near the end when several members of that denomination decided to try to 'convert me.' Now as a pastor, this was wonderful education, because I was able to experience first hand how incredibly annoying having someone try to convert you is. This especially true when their tactic is to ignorantly put down (judge) your church and/or school that you attend. I remember distinctly thinking "They would have a much better chance of having me join their church if they just loved me and celebrated my presence at their retreat." Afterall, if there is 'no partiality with God' (2:11) and if we truly believe that HE is the Judge, then I need to make sure I'm putting extra effort to show 'kindness and tolerance and patience' to those of different beliefs than me, hoping that I can be an instrument of God's kindness that leads 'sinners' to repentence. (i.e. you can't attract flies with vineger). I think this is especially important for us SDA's who can be tempted to rely on our 'more correct theology' (which I am proud of) instead of love in our attempts to 'convert poeple.' To be blunt, I've found that being around some evangelical churches, they may have 'very basic theology' and 'just stick to the simple Salvation message' and not go into prophecy, diet... but the love and acceptence I've felt in their presence tends to be more than I get in 'logical minded' SDA gatherings. (There, now that comment should get some good replies). This relates to Salvation because often 'we are the only Bible people will read' and whether or not they will open to the 'Salvation message.' I welcome your comments on your experiences of the love/acceptence/kindness that draws people to God in comparison of SDA and evangelical churches (please, if you whole life is inside the SDA bubble, your comments are only theory. I want actual experiences inside and out side the church).
Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10 Angel Manuel Rodriguez Timothy 4:10—“(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe. Rodriguez commentary on this verse is intriguing. Reading “Savior of all men” as “Savior as Jews, Greeks, men, woman, etc.” is a reading that I am comfortable with. Whether it’s the legal ramifications of salvation, or the idea of universalism, it does seem that many read into this verse what is not clearly there. Therefore, I have no contention with Rodriguez’s inclusive, yet simple reading.
Chapters 1 and 2 on Ellen White on Salvation The first chapter just serves as an introduction to the book and sets the framework for Whidden’s research. He seeks to cover the issues of EGW’s take on the doctrine of Christ’s humanity, to clarify her teachings on justification and perfection, and to set for an interpretation of those issues. Whidden ends chapter one stating that, “This balance between justification and perfection can be likened to a seesaw.”
The second chapter begins with Ellen’s conversion experience, and specifically, her experience understanding sanctification. This chapter was a fascinating read, because it is early in Ellen’s spiritual development years. I wonder, how many Adventists have used EGW quotes from this (early) time in Ellen’s understanding and spiritual maturity?
Romans 1 This chapter, of course, starts with some classic Pauline introductions: “To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ” (vs. 7). Paul goes on to say that the gospel is offered to Jews and Gentiles alike. The most intriguing verse in this chapter seems to be verse 20: “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” This verse gives great insight into Paul’s idea of “General Revelation” (although, he wouldn’t know the term). Paul seems to be saying that the general revelation through creation is enough to point people to the one true God. For me, it raises questions some classic questions about missionary activity: If “men are without excuse” just from looking at nature, how does that relate to the traditional Adventist idea that all people have to hear the name of Jesus before he comes? Also, how does “knowledge about Jesus” correlate with salvation?
Maybe I am too skeptical, maybe I don’t study enough, maybe I don’t hold a high enough regard for supposed “holy things” but I have a great disdain for Adventist “logic.” There is a very tight, rigid, and inflexible thinking pattern that pervades a large portion of Adventist thought; thinking that is detrimental to the advancement of the gospel. This thinking centers around right often at the expense of righteousness. A greater concern for correctness without any regard for the theological gymnastics it took to arrive at a conclusion, however doctrinally sound or correct that conclusion may be. Persecution is equal in some minds to the seal of God. For many, if someone challenges or counters a dearly held belief or if they suffer for it, this must mean with all uncertainty that they are not only correct but have the endurance of the saints; but what if you are wrong? Where lies your allegiance, to an institution comprised of fallible, finite individuals or to Christ? Are you dedicated to the Advent message or Adventist membership? An easy pseudo-sense of security awaits those who sign on to be a part of the “true- Bible believing, apostasy rejecting remnant.” Being a part of a church that God has led, directed and inspired throughout history is not of concern to me- the reason why someone belongs is what is of concern. Is it to follow the leading of Christ as He directs you or by joining the ranks of the right you will then be able to truly find Christ? God has asked of his followers to unify in a singular way (1 Corinthians 12:13). We should come together to worship the one that created us, not to exalt our ability to justify our beliefs. We shouldn’t revel in the correctness of Sabbath, we should revel in the Lord of the Sabbath. The peace that comes from understanding a souls rest should not be used to cause unrest and disdain among those who don’t hold the same understanding. Whidden carefully couches the difficulties of holding a discussion with Adventists in his introductory chapter. He appears very alert to the sensitivity that such conversations require. It is my hope that he employs this careful, thoughtful approach to his research and the subsequent findings as we continue to read. What can be more important than salvation? What does it say about those postulating their beliefs with a vitreous veracity that makes people reject not only the presenters but Christ? It is my desire that the church once again search diligently to know Christ, not search to know how they are right. If we are truly seeking to glorify Christ, we will desire to exalt Him not ourselves.
Articles and Chapter read: Romans 1; “Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White” by: Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, and “The Salvation Dilemma: How Shall we proceed?” The Salvation Dilemma: How Shall We Proceed? I have realized that there is a big connection between these three readings. They all agree that humanity had fallen from righteousness into sin which was the reason why we have sick dying world. The trouble is that humanity doesn’t have what it takes to save mankind from the curse of sin which is death. Fortunately Paul encouragingly wrote that the Gospel is the “power of God salvation to everyone who believes… For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith (progressive) Ellen White has evidenced in her writings that justification and perfection are closely related and that the believer cannot have one without the other (1T 22, 23). There has to be an abiding balance of these two in the Christian life leading to “unity” in the strongest sense.
My readings revealed that salvation was a complete provision of God through Jesus Christ unto those who genuinely believe in him and claim his salvation by faith which is also a process from faith to faith. Just like when sin has corrupted the person in me, causing me not be friendly with God and all his agenda but always in rebellion, the more I rebel, the bitter I get with God. But now that I have claimed and received God’s free gift of salvation a process of change, I believe, must happen within me. Just like the quotation above: “from justification to perfection.” How it’s going to happen? Let me see on my next readings.
Reading the BRI article about the connection between Adam and the rest of humanity really connected with something I had been thinking earlier today about breathing.
It seems obvious to me - regardless of whether or not I understand the mechanics or spiritual physics of how or why it happened – that I am inextricably connected to the choices Adam made since I am constantly bombarded by the jacked up nature I was born with, the wrecked cultures that infest this planet and the planet it self that seems bent on destroying itself if we aren’t quick enough to get it done first. But we are also, thankfully, linked through the experience of being salvaged by Jesus.
Whidden’s account of Ellen White’s young salvation experience resonated with me. The way she felt fearful of never being worthy of salvation is exactly the way I felt from almost the first moments of consciousness of God. I would lay awake at night and cry because I didn’t think I would be in heaven with my family. If felt like I couldn’t breathe. I would answer people’s simple complements with “without God I would be nothing” and similar phrases. What I should have said was, “I don’t think I have God because I am nothing.” Reality finally penetrated my thick head one day when I had a realization that as I was sinning Jesus had already engulfed me with acceptance and was just waiting for me to breathe it in. The realization made me weep and far from wanting to do whatever I wanted made me want to never sin again.
Its like in Romans 1.20 where God says we are without excuse because we are surrounded with examples of Who He Is. But I think it goes way beyond all the examples of nature. I think we are surrounded by an atmosphere of Grace as real as the air we breathe and we stand around blue in the face fearful to inhale because we are not worthy. I’ve grown to be annoyed with phrases like, “without God I would be nothing.” Obviously! Its great to remember this but I think its more important to remember that I do have God. He’s not going anywhere. I would be dead without air: I have all the air I need. All I have to do is keep breathing. I can focus on the fact that I would be dead without air or joyfully and thankfully inhale the air that surrounds me. I can talk about how I would be really terrible without God or I can breathe in and let the air of grace that surrounds me flush my cheeks and race my heart and be so alive that people wont need me to clarify that “I’m only something because of Christ.” There will be no question that I’m alive because of something beyond myself.
We are linked because of the death we inherited from Adam but we area also linked because of the air of Grace that surrounds us just like it did Adam and Ellen White. We just need to stop holding our breath and inhale deeply. (Not sure any of this is really what the teacher wants but that’s all I’ve got for now) Peace out.
Romans chapter two sounds a lot more like the book of James than I remember. Its emphasis on the doers of the law as the ones who will be justified sounds like justification by works. Paul talks about how the Gentiles who do not have the law are a law to themselves. Paul shows the graciousness of God in giving salvation. As one person said, “All who are saved are saved by the name of Jesus, but not all of those know the name of Jesus.”
Then in the BRI document it brings up Romans 3 where it talks about a righteousness that is not from the law. The argument is based on this chapter that there is only one righteousness, and that comes through faith. That is a statement that I definitely agree with. The conclusion is that the provision of salvation is freely given to all, yet it must be received by the recipient. Romans 5:18 is a verse that was used heavily to try to say that Christ provided universal justification. I appreciate that the article reminds us to read everything in context. When we read this verse in the context of chapter 5 then we see it in the theme of righteousness by faith.
I have a problem with the idea in the article that a person must put away their sins before they can be converted and justified. I believe that people are justified when they accept Jesus and He changes them as they grow together. The article points out that God is the one who takes the initiative to make salvation possible. It is interesting to see from verses like 2 Peter 3:9 that there is a response of repentance that is man’s part in the salvation equation.
It is interesting that Ellen White went through so much confusion and anxiety in her early years searching after God. It is important to know and understand God’s provision of salvation so we can have peace as we choose to follow the Lord. If things are tormenting as a Christian. I think that could be from ignorance or Satan attacking us. For this reason salvation and the hope of eternal life is a blessing that can give us hope and confidence that we are in God’s hands and that He truly cares about each of us.
“How Perfect is ‘Perfect’ or is Christian Perfection Possible?” Edward Heppenstall
Heppenstall contends, “The perfect righteousness of Christ is the only answer to the sin problem in any man's life, the only possibility of living like Christ here and now.” He goes further, by saying that the Bible’s application of the term “perfection” never meant “sinless.” Rather, spiritual maturity is what the term means. Heppenstall ends the article by saying that salvation by grace alone is the only way to salvation. This article is obviously for those that have taken the idea of perfection too far, and made it something that we think we can achieve as humans. Not perfection as spiritual maturity, but perfection meaning a sinless state of existence. Therefore, I am thankful for Heppenstall’s grace-oriented approach. After all, if our focus is reaching sinlessness here on earth, where does our faith in Jesus come in?
Chapter 3 on Ellen White on Salvation
This chapter deals with how Ellen White balanced the ideas of justification and perfection in the decade leading up to 1888. Just as Mrs. White spoke out against a fanatical brother who took the idea of perfection too far, she also spoke out against a proponent of “cheap grace.” This bigger emphasis on justification is another stage of Ellen’s spiritual maturity. It is interesting to see how others fanaticism made Ellen really decide on distinct views of doctrine for herself.
Romans 2
Romans 2:3-4 reads: “So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance?” These are the verses that stick out to me from this passage. I find it fascinating that Paul was writing to those in Rome that were going through many of the same issues communities of faith today struggle with. “God’s kindness leads you toward repentance,” is something that we, as pastors, should always keep in mind when we feel like casting judgment on someone in the church.
The Week of September 14th What a week it has been. I have been reading everything that I can get my hands on, on the subject of Salvation including what we have to read as a class. Just so you all know I read the article “Christ Saved the Human Race” and Chapter 3 in Ellen White on Salvation. I give you the references so that you are better able to see where I am coming from in my reaction. After reading this week’s Student Movement, I see more than ever the need for a balanced theology of Salvation. I too often see people going from one extreme or the other. I noticed that in the book Whidden talks about the balance that Ellen White had and for the first time I saw that she thought much the same way I do on this subject. We are saved as we are and we can’t clean ourselves up. We are hopelessly flawed in a way that keeps us from doing anything that is truly selfless. So we come to Jesus as we are well then what. Then He begins a work in us that is truly a miracle. We change. We go from being people who live for ourselves to people who live for others because of our love for God which is a gift from Him. We have no right to say that we did any of the work ourselves and the moment that we try to do the work ourselves we have taken our lives out of the only hands that can save us. There is assurance in this. Does it mean that we can’t be lost? Not a chance but it does mean that if we let God take control we ARE saved and WILL be saved. What does this life look like? A changed life is just that, changed. God makes us into different people. The challenge for us is surrender. I have often heard people in both of the ditches say things like once I am saved it doesn’t matter what I do. That is insane. If you really belong to God it will be apparent in your life. An example of this is the story Jesus tells of the people that come to Him at the end of time and say that they know Him but He knows them not. He turns to the second group and they ask Him when did we do all these things for you and He says that when they did it for the least of their brothers they did it unto Him. I was discussing this with my dad the other day and he said that there is a serious difference between these two groups. One group counts all the things that they do for God and for the other it is so natural that they don’t even know they are doing it. What a blessing. They have grown like God and because of this, what they do and what they want to do have changed so much that they change the whole world. I want to be like these people. Well I have run out of room so I will have to continue more of this next week.
• Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal “Legal” Justification • The Decade Before 1888 • Romans 2
Dale Baker
The topic of salvation has always spark much discussion, especially when it comes on to talking about the as it relates to salvation. Some persons have taken differing perspective on the process of salvation. Views have been forwarded that we are only saved my faith and faith alone, while another view state that we are all we need to do to be saved is just to keep the law.
It is clear that when Adam sinned he brought forth death upon all men, and since the time of his sin man has started to degenerate. But praise God that Jesus came and lift us from the path that leads to death and lead us to path that leads us to life, and life eternal. It should not be missed here that in order to be lifted from death to life it requires obedience and faith. However, obedience and faith is not the only way of attaining salvation, there is need also for works, works which stem from obedience to the law.
As Waggoner states that “Getting into Christ is only the beginning not the end of Christian life.” Thus I believe after accepting Christ it is the beginning of a life of service, faith and trust.
Angel Rodriquez’s article entitled, “Adam and the human race in the writings of E.G. White,” brings to the fore the salient truth that the prophetess’s understanding of the fall of humanity is sound and biblical. The prophetess showed in her writings the depraved nature of Adam that came as a result of the fall. This fallen and depraved state is a legacy that we have all inherited as descendants of Adam. But the good news is that salvation was offered through the seed of the woman to Adam and his progeny. The article highlighted the fact even though Adam was fallen a door of hope was opened whereby restoration was made possible. His advocate Jesus was willing to stand in the gap, and ransom him from the grave. As I reflected upon the article I could not help but appreciate the amazing gift of love that was extended to Adam and his lost race- Jesus. In Christ we have the assurance that our eternal salvation is guaranteed. It is quite clear from the writings of the servant of the Lord that there was a link with what Adam did and the rest of humanity. His sinful act affected every last creature on the face of this earth, and sentenced us to eternal death. But thanks be to God who has redeemed us through Jesus Christ.
Material Read: How Perfect Is "Perfect" Or Is Christian Perfection Possible? by Edward Heppenstall
In this article, Dr. Heppenstall does an admirable job of articulating the nature or Christian perfection. He clearly and concisely defends the position that “Christian perfection” is not point at which a person becomes sinless, it is the point at which one’s, “heart and mind are permanently committed to Christ.” His corollary argument is that the influence of the Holy Spirit helps the individual overcome sin as they travel through life, but a level of complete sinlessness is never achieved before Jesus comes again. He even makes the statement that even if one conquers all known sin, that does not make one sinless. This idea seems to fit well with the idea developed in class of a holistic model of salvation. In speaking of sin, we must interpret the concept as broadly as the Scriptures allow, instead of picking activities here or there that we believe constitutes sin. I appreciated Heppenstall’s closing statement that, “The righteousness of Christ that saves is not the beginning of a new self-righteousness, but the perpetual end of it.” In my mind, this solidifies the argument against achieving moral perfection on earth because it would indeed lead to a certain self-sufficiency, which according to Romans 2:8 is the antithesis of true Godliness. There was one area where I had a problem with Heppenstall’s article. While I agreed with his position on the nature of “biblical perfection,” I thought he did a horrendous job of defending the position. It would have strengthened the argument to dig into original languages to bring out the nuances of the Hebrew and Greek. Instead it came across as if he were claiming authority to interpret the biblical idea of perfection in whichever way he felt comfortable. Overall, the author’s explanation of perfection, and emphasis on dependence on Christ were refreshing, even if his contentions weren’t supported as strongly as they might have been.
Redoing Week One with Correct BRI Romans 1: A typical Pauline introduction and a section on unbelief and its consequences (perversion).
Whidden, Woodrow W. “Chapter One: The Salvation Dilemma: How Shall We Proceed?” from: Ellen White on Salvation. Berrien Springs: R&H Catalog Service.
I find that the two most controversial subjects of salvation in the church (justification by faith and perfection) also are the struggles of individual believers who question and doubt their own faith. The tension between faith and works is a fragile one and they cannot serve independent from one another. I am often baffled at “Christians” who claim they are saved but break the law and live like heathens. The other extreme is relying so much on works that some believers (Adventists especially) act like they don’t need Christ because they are working their way up to heaven. Christian perfection is also important for individual believers. When I first became a Christian I was so frustrated because as hard as I tried I still sinned. I felt that God could not accept or love me because I could not “be ye perfect as I am perfect.” Many think or wonder if they have committed the “unforgivable sin” and can never be forgiven. I however disagree with Whidden in that all Adventists must agree doctrinally. We can be united and not necessarily all believe exactly the same. Throughout our history there was room for differences of opinion (James White died a deist). I hope that we can continue to stay united in Christ despite our theological leanings.
Edward Heppenstall. How Perfect Is "Perfect" Or Is Christian Perfection Possible? http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/How%20Perfect%20Is%20Perfect.htm
I really enjoyed this article on Christian perfection. I personally have struggled with this issue and felt discouraged in my walk with God. I am glad that Heppenstall pointed out those who feel they are perfect now despite the fact that our great heroes of faith have pointed to their own unworthiness and inadequacies. Our perfection is not through our own attainment but it is the gift of a crucified and risen Lord. On this he writes, “The testimony of all great Christians is that they have never attained to it; that the more they strived and the closer they came to Christ, the deeper was their sense of inadequacy and inherent sinfulness.” So what does it mean to be perfect and sinful? This was my favorite part of the article, Heppenstall writes, “To be a genuine Christian means faith in Christ, fellowship with Christ, faithfulness to Christ, and fruitfulness for Christ. Faith means that man has no perfection and no righteousness of and in himself; that man trusts wholly and solely in Christ.” I understand perfection as wholeness. I did not know that there are so many glosses in the Old and New Testament for “perfection.” I felt that he could have given us all of the various meanings rather than a few examples. He writes, “There are at least nine different Hebrew words and six Greek words translated "perfection."” He defines perfection as ones commitment to the process of sanctification through the power of the Holy Spirit. “A "perfect" Christian is one whose heart and mind are permanently committed to Christ, cannot be moved.” Also, “The Bible does teach that the genuine Christian life is one of uniform and sustained victory over all known sin. The normal Christian experience should be one of victory and not constant defeat”. Therefore perfection is the Holy Spirits intervention with our sin natures. Heppenstall writes, “God's method of salvation is not eradication of a sinful nature, but the counteraction of divine power through the Holy Spirit. Only by the continual counteracting presence of the Holy Spirit is it possible to be victorious over sin and the sinful nature within us.” I liked the article but did not learn anything new or inspirational.
I found Marcus Vassell's comments regard "set apart" quite interesting. The truth is when one accepts Christ one is called and set aside or apart for various reasons. It is interesting that he understands this set apart pertaining to ministry; of course unless his understanding is of ministry is the Priesthood of all believers. However, in this case I believe we as called children of God are set aside or apart as witnesses or examples of what God is willing to do for humankind. It is my belief that what God intended to accomplish in Israel as a Nation, but did not because of their failure; God is willing to do among us as those 'set apart.' On the other hand, In the earlier Chapters of Romans Paul is dealing with two struggles human choices versus God's sovereign authority. As I read Romans 1:1 I am asking myself rhetorically of course,When we accept Christ as our Savior are we freed or we become slaves. So that his actions compels a response! Are we free or we have become Christ's "doulos?"
• Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal “Legal” Justification • The Decade Before 1888 • Romans 2
As is shown by Woodrow in chapter three, Ellen White promulgates a balance view between justification and perfection. This balance is revealed as she rebuked those who sort to obtain salvation through obedience to the law and those who denounced or argue that it is not necessary to observe the law because of grace. The concepts of save by grace without subsequent obedience to the law as well as adherence to the law as a means of salvation are just as prevalent in our time as in Ellen White’s days. We see quit a number of the Churches outside Adventism not all who teach the truth that a person can only be saved by grace, however they fall short or err in failing to emphasize the obedience that fallows the reception of the gift of salvation. In other words, they give the impression that after a person has accepted Christ he or she can live the same way as before conversion, because all that matters is that this person as now accepted Christ. In such a case, persons would still be smoking, going to parties, committing fornication etc. The problem with this notion is that it emphasizes only one aspect of the salvation process to the negation of the other aspect. On the other side of the tangent, there are those who give enormous attention to works thus giving the impression as if a person is saved or justified by works. Here strong emphasis is placed on keeping the law in order to be accepted with God. People who obtain a job based on their qualifications would seem themselves worthy of it because they have met all the criteria. This analogy reveals the disposition some have taken toward salvation, they believe they have to meet all the specifications before they can receive God’s acceptance. Moreover, having seemingly met these specifications they believe there is no reason for God not to give them salvation. Receiving a job based on qualification might be true for the work place but not so in order for a person to receive salvation from God. Salvation is only based on what God has done, is doing and will do for and in the life of the sinner. Therefore, the correct way in viewing the salvation process is to bring about to create a balance as is revealed in the Bible and Spirit of prophecy. What then is the balance? The balance is that a person is only saved by faith in Jesus but this faith in Christ will all lead him or her to be obedient to Christ after conversion. In other words, we are not save by keeping the law but keep the law because we have been saved. Consequently, the salvation process involves salvation without the works of the law and the truth that one cannot be saved without obedience to the law.
Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal “Legal” Justification • The Decade Before 1888 • Romans 2
As is shown by Woodrow in chapter three, Ellen White promulgates a balance view between justification and perfection. This balance is revealed as she rebuked those who sort to obtain salvation through obedience to the law and those who denounced or argue that it is not necessary to observe the law because of grace. The concepts of save by grace without subsequent obedience to the law as well as adherence to the law as a means of salvation are just as prevalent in our time as in Ellen White’s days. We see quit a number of the Churches outside Adventism not all who teach the truth that a person can only be saved by grace, however they fall short or err in failing to emphasize the obedience that fallows the reception of the gift of salvation. In other words, they give the impression that after a person has accepted Christ he or she can live the same way as before conversion, because all that matters is that this person as now accepted Christ. In such a case, persons would still be smoking, going to parties, committing fornication etc. The problem with this notion is that it emphasizes only one aspect of the salvation process to the negation of the other aspect. On the other side of the tangent, there are those who give enormous attention to works thus giving the impression as if a person is saved or justified by works. Here strong emphasis is placed on keeping the law in order to be accepted with God. People who obtain a job based on their qualifications would seem themselves worthy of it because they have met all the criteria. This analogy reveals the disposition some have taken toward salvation, they believe they have to meet all the specifications before they can receive God’s acceptance. Moreover, having seemingly met these specifications they believe there is no reason for God not to give them salvation. Receiving a job based on qualification might be true for the work place but not so in order for a person to receive salvation from God. Salvation is only based on what God has done, is doing and will do for and in the life of the sinner. Therefore, the correct way in viewing the salvation process is to bring about to create a balance as is revealed in the Bible and Spirit of prophecy. What then is the balance? The balance is that a person is only saved by faith in Jesus but this faith in Christ will all lead him or her to be obedient to Christ after conversion. In other words, we are not save by keeping the law but keep the law because we have been saved. Consequently, the salvation process involves salvation without the works of the law and the truth that one cannot be saved without obedience to the law.
Week 2: Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification -Larry J. Kane Romans 2, Ellen White On Salvation Chapter 2.
It is interesting to see how the subject of salvation never can be discussed outside of personal experience. Many people move from a LAW emphasis to a GRACE emphasis later in their spiritual experience. We start out our Christian walk because we don’t want to “go to hell” and then finally grow to realize that God really wants to save us more that we even want to save ourselves.
The early religious experience of E. G. White surrounding her ‘conversion sanctification crisis’ is indeed a key factor in understanding her many statements on the subject of justification and sanctification. Just as Paul had to emphasize to the Jews in Romans 2 that they were just a guilty before God as the Gentiles, so Ellen White had to emphasize the real source of our righteousness in light of the “Holiness fanatics”.
I think that balance is a key word in Ellen White growing understanding of salvation. Extremes definitely have to be avoided. One can feel so condemned and try to work their way to righteousness and another can feel so self-assured (thinking that he stands) and deceive himself in the process.
These extremes express themselves in different ways as in the idea of a “universal ‘legal’ justification.” To think that Christ righteousness is universally applied to every human being without their belief in Jesus Christ is surely to make grace too cheap and God too good. The same way in which God couldn’t force Adam to obey Him and still be a God of love, so He couldn’t force the sinner to be saved and still be God.
Justification id definitely AVAILABLE at the cross but we must CHOOSE to apply this to our lives. Again, it is the attraction of extreme positions that make the doctrine of salvation important for study. Indeed we need a larger picture or model of salvation than can be employed using one metaphor.
Marcus Malcolm Vassell Dr. Martin Hanna Doctrine of Salvation September 15, 2007 In the letter to the Romans Paul further builds his argument to the Roman congregations in chapter two that God is impartial to all human beings. All have equal opportunity to be saved or to be lost, furthermore, it does not matter if you are have special revelation (the Law) or general revelation (Natural Law). What is important to God is that we respond appropriately to what we know to be truth. This declaration is riveting in that I am challenged to think of all that I know is a blessing if I respond appropriately to the light I have or it will be a curse to me if I fail to live up to it be faith and obedience. As I think about Whidden’s statements about Ellen White’s conversion experience I have to say that it is almost strange to her about her conversion journey detailed that way because it reminds me that she was so very human. I/we are tempted to think of her as some sort of super-Christian individual who was born filled with the Spirit. What’s more is that I can see some of my own personal struggles mirrored in her own life as she came to know God’s love for herself. Legal universal justification is a ridiculous notion and for the life of me I can’t figure out how intelligent people (scholars) come up with some of the concepts that they do.
Chapter 2- Ellen White On Salvation- Conversion, Sanctification and Early Ministry. BRI Document- How Perfect Is Perfect-Or is Christian Perfection Possible?
Reflection In this Chapter the writer discusses the dilemma in which young Ellen G White finds herself
after listening to the farmer turned preacher, William Miller. Her mind dwelt on the very serious
subjects of forgiveness, justification, and sanctification. On one hand, it is clear that her conflict
arose after hearing William Miller’s view of acceptance of Christ as Savior makes one ‘a child of
God.’ On the other hand, Holiness Methodism instilled in her that ‘sanctification’ followed the
assurance of forgiveness and justification. “She was longing to be entirely accepted of God, but she
was frustrated by her lack of feeling.” This causes me to ponder, can entirely accept and believe in
all the emotional things (became human, lived and died a cruel death) and not have feeling when
accepting Christ. In other words does acceptance of Christ require demonstration of emotions (tears,
joy, guilt, sorrow) ? What is “true” conversion? And does God require perfection in the lives we
live?
I believe that Christ expects us to have perfect love. We cannot be perfect, Christ makes up for
our deficiencies. Therefore, if we abide in Christ we may be perfect- perfect in Character and perfect
in love! As we struggle just as young Ellen did, Christ is not calling us to live perfect, but to have a
perfect love for him and for our fellow men. There is no way we can be perfect on our own!
Week Two Heather Barbian Romans 2: Started with judgment, judging and hypocrisy. We will be judged by the laws standards even if we did not have the law because we have been given a conscience. In verse five it says that God, “WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.” Jews are not better off then the Gentiles because they have been found wanting.
Whidden, Woodrow W. “Chapter Two: Conversion, “Sanctification,” and Early Ministry” from: Ellen White on Salvation. Berrien Springs: R&H Catalog Service.
Ellen White’s conversion and sanctification doctrine spring from her own experiences. There are three that affected Ellen the greatest; her own crises of conversion, her crises of sanctification and her negative dealings with the perverted Wesleyan holiness movement. Her experiences led her to a belief in sanctification as being the work of a lifetime rather than in one intense moment. I also believe in the lifelong sanctification process but I wonder if that is simply because I was raised an Adventist. I relate to Ellen White in her many crises’ because I feel that many have questioned their acceptance and forgiveness by God, including myself.
Reid, George W. Why Did Jesus Die? How God Saves Us. http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/Why%20Did%20Jesus%20Die.htm
This article focused on why Jesus had to die on the cross. Reid argues that Jesus had to die in order to be our ransom. The human race needed to be reclaimed and the price was God’s son. He asked, “If ransomed, who collected the ransom price?” Some theories include Satan, God the Father and the sacrificial system. Since the Bible dose not specify one can only speculate. I was frustrated by this article in that it did not adequately explain why death was nessesary and why God chose the cross. Also, I want to know why one must “accept Jesus” in order to be saved if God died once for all. Also it makes God look like he does not want to save us and that he demands a blood payment. It sounds so mafia like. My favorite section of the article was on God’s love. He writes, “Love is aggressive: God at work tracking us down to help us. Love is a principle, Ellen White says. How can that be? The answer is that God's love is an unshakable commitment, inviolable, a predisposition in our favor that cannot be discouraged. Divine love-there is no way to shake it or deter it. It is a relentless pursuit by a God eager to help, one who never gives up. In this sense God is love.”
In my reading of Romans, Paul says alot of things that seem clear and powerful, but he also says alot of things that are confusing (no suprise here). For example, Romans 4:25 Paul says "He who was deliverd over because of our trangressions [making sense so far], and was raised BECUASE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION." I don't understand the 'because of' connection here between Jesus being raised and us being justified. Eternal life, sanctification in our 'new life' being compared to Jesus' ressurection makes sense in this connection, but I'm not connecting the justification being the cause/motivation of the ressurection of Jesus. Perhaps the 'new birth' Jesus talked about in John 3, paralleled to the Resurrection as Jesus' 'new birth out of the tomb,' coming out with a new body etc... could be a type (foreshadowing) to our 'sinless' state when we are clothed with Christ's righteousness (i.e. Justification). In other words, when, by faith, we accept Christ as our Saviour, we are then justified and appear before God as if we had never sinned (a 'sinless state' even though we are still human and continue to 'fall short of the glory of God'). This state before God 'as if we had never sinned' might be to us a type of resurection. BUT, I still think of that as more of a result of Jesus' ressurction, and not a cause and reason for His ressurection. I welcome your feedback and thoughts.
Reflections from Romans 2/ Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal “Legal” Justification / Ellen G. White on Salvation
Romans Chapter two highlights the condemnation of the Jews in judging the Gentiles. Their judging the moral behavior of the Gentiles brought about condemnation of their own weakness because of the light that they had received. Their judgment indicated that they knew what was right. Although the sins of the Jews may not have been exactly the same as the Gentiles, the Jews had received greater light. Therefore, to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. James 4: 17 Rom 2:3 speaks of the judgment of a righteous God concerning evildoers based upon the condition of the heart. Who can know the condition of the heart? Only the righteous judge …for the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? The condition that was spoken of here was a hardness caused by non-repentance. This heart condition of the Jews ultimately was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit since they refused to accept the love and mercy that God provided in the offering of his son. Was every human “legally” justified when Jesus died at Calvary? The Universal legal concept implied that God’s plan is for all to be saved including some who will be saved against their will. Also a belief in corporate justification instead of justification by faith or experiential faith. I believe this was referenced from Rom 3:23 apart from vs 24 resulting in “bad hermeneutics.” Their concept of legal justification resulted from vs 23: For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Vs 24 Being justified freely (righteousnes a free gift), redeemed by the blood of Jesus gives a more appropriate view. The atonement is shown in Jesus’ death. Sin is forgiven by God in the believing sinner. Jesus is the substitute and he saves individuals who have accepted Him, making Him their substitute. I feel Rom 3:19-21 should be included for a complete picture. The righteous judgment of God will render to every man according to his deeds. Rom14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.Vs.12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Vs.13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
This chapter, by Whidden points out E.G. White’s ministry in warning against self-righteousness, fanaticism and anything that would destroy the doctrinal core of Adventism. Please reflect on the following excerpts: Whites then called anyone who cannot sin the "veriest Laodicean," and they defined true sanctification as that which comes through "obedience of the truth and of God." The Anti-Law Extremists It is indicative of Ellen White's balance in her ministry of salvation that she could not only rebuke the perfectionism of the Holiness fanatics, but also give equally stern warnings to the law-denouncing "cheap grace" preachers. It is this decade before 1888 that signals a remarkable upsurge in emphasis on Christ's justifying merits, but it is always a doctrine that features earnest obedience as the inescapable fruit of divine forgiveness. "Christ did not come to excuse sin, nor to justify a sinner while he continued to transgress that law....
"What is the sinner to be converted from? The transgression of God's law to obedience of it. But if he is told that he cannot keep the law of God . . . to what is he then converted—from transgression of the law to a continuance in that transgression? This is absurd" (ST, July 18, 1878). She concluded by reproving those who "cry Christ, Christ, only believe on Christ, when they do not the works of Christ." And then she directly addressed Elder Brown: "Please never again make the misstatement that we do not rely on Jesus Christ for our salvation, but trust in the law to be saved. We have never written one word to that effect. It is interesting that in reporting this confrontation to her readers in the Signs she found it "incredible" that one professing to be a "Bible student . . . should affirm that no man ever kept the law of God, or could keep it." When sorely pressed by what she felt was gross misrepresentation, she declared that salvation by obedience to the law is impossible, but salvation without obedience is also just as impossible. She declared that we are justified only by faith in the "merits" of Christ, but such faith will never excuse transgression (ST, July 18, 1878).
In relationship to our grasp of her doctrine of salvation, this incident revealed much about Ellen White's developing understanding. Clearly salvation was only by faith in Jesus' merits, but significant obedience by faith was also possible for the true believer. May our heartfelt prayer be: Lord take away the stony heart and give me a heart of flesh.
Romans 2 Conversion, "Sanctification," and Early Ministry Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification
Paul in Romans 2 talks about how we’re trying to escape God’s wrath by judging others when we ourselves are doing the same (just an evidence of how evil man is). Then he wrote about how God’s patient, tolerant kindness leads us to repentance instead of judging.
God will judge us according to our deeds, depending on how we have responded to his initiative of offering salvation. If we desire his will of salvation then we’re glory bound or doomed if we don’t. It’s that simple how he has presented his gospel of salvation. Since God took the initiative to save us, we have no excuse not knowing what’s best for us as presented by Christ patient love.
People will be judged accordingly whether they know the law or not. To some, they may not have the letters of the law but have it written in their hearts and live according to it.
People who live lives counter to what they know about God and his will, causes others to blaspheme God’s name because of their double standards. Their words and lives don’t match. This is the very issue that plagued the early Christian years of EG White whose desire to fulfill her “sanctification expectations” was deeply, negatively affected by the hypocritical holiness fanatics. Even the manner of imparting/sharing the knowledge sanctification was far from being clear because of the terms used and the idea of making things hard to live for. Likewise, a supposedly encouraging and uplifting message of Christ’s second coming rather than making people be joyful about it causes them to be sad and afraid because of the manner of presentation and delivery. This led people, even EGW, to be confused with the doctrine of sanctification and the experience of sanctification. Only the “altar” theology of an “entire surrender to God” is the key to full salvation or Christian perfection. As she grew in faith, EGW believed that “sanctification was not the work of a moment, but that of a lifetime. Perfection was not to be claimed as some sinless accomplishment, but rather sought as a way of life that would see believers grow in grace until they received the finishing touch of sinlessness at glorification.”
HYPOCRISY is a big issue with Paul, EGWhite, and the BRI. There is a great need to talk the talk and walk the talk at the same time. Justification is by faith alone and perfection of life “in Christ” is a walk of a lifetime and again by faith alone. Decision or choice plays a big role to one who wants to benefit from the free gift of salvation but could never be enforced to any one who refuses to receive it. I have discovered how important it is to stand by the principles of Biblical interpretation to remain true and accurate on the basis of our faith or completely be mistaken. Salvation is both subjective and objective as per God’s initiative. “It can be, indeed must be, concluded with confidence that justification by faith encompasses both objective and subjective elements, both legal and experiential components. The two are integral parts of the whole of righteousness by faith. As God takes the initiative, man has the responsibility to respond accordingly, to accept the gift to glory or reject to damnation.
Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White
When Adam sinned, he cut off open communion with God, which created a gulf between God and man that only God could bridge together. Although Adam had sinned and cut himself and all of humanity off from God, mankind was not cut off completely. If mankind had been completely cut off and/or separated from God, then all of mankind would have been hopeless. There would not have been a need for a Savior. Adam’s sin brought in mankind’s rebellion against God but it did not make it impossible for God to reach the heart and bring man under the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Unlike Judas, Adam did not go so far that he could not be reached. There is no Bible record that he (Adam) continued to live in the enjoyment of his decision. The committed sin brought with it some traumatic irreversible results and experiences and affects that Adam and all of mankind is currently suffering. All of man sinned because Adam’s fallen nature was passed down to his descendants. This seems to suggest that when Christ was born He also had a fallen nature. However, as discussed in class, Christ was like Adam before the fall, He was sinless. At the same time, He was like Adam after the fall, not that He committed any wrongful acts but that He became sin for us. In other words, He took our sins upon Himself and suffered the handicaps that sin produced. He suffered from hunger, tiredness, thirstiness, loneliness, and death. It is still a mystery to me how Adam’s sin infected his descendants nature’s with evil but his repentance seemed to have no affect on them at all. It seems that we can only choose to do right we have no choice when it comes to evil (sin) because we are inherently sinners, Romans 1:18-32. Wayne Moten
Raydal brings up some very interesting issues and concerns on his comment on Rodriguez’s paper. It seems that he and I have some similar questions and/or concerns about the affects of the sin brought on us through Adam’s disobedience. However, my concern is due to trying to understand how or why it is that we suffer the consequences by Adam’s disobedience but we don’t necessarily share the results of his obedience. From what I read, Adam’s sin infected us all with evil but his repentance had no affect on us at all. It seems that this is where I share a common concern with Raydal. I appreciate his openness in expressing his feelings and his questioning of Ellen White. However, Raydal finds it hard to believe that if Adam had not accepted Christ that we all would be doomed. I believe that this is something that probably needs a little more indebt study. At the same time, I do believe that if Adam had rejected Christ then all would be lost. I say this with the belief that only Adam and Eve were the only two humans alive on earth when he transgressed. If God had laid Adam to rest when he sinned or if he had rejected the coming Christ, it seems that there wouldn’t have been a need for him to continue living, especially if he had no chance of inheriting eternal life. If God had destroyed Adam, where would we be? If He had destroyed Adam, we would not be. Adam wouldn’t have had any descendants. Therefore, I can see why if Adam had rejected Christ we would be doomed.
Sermon presented at the 1988 Annual Council, Nairobi, Kenya (East Africa), by Jan Paulsen, then president of the Trans-European Division; now General Conference vice-president.
FREDDY DE LOS SANTOS REFLECTION.
How much faith worth?
This article clearly state, that we are save by faith in Jesus, but faith and trust come together. One question has come to my mind regarding faith by itself; how much faith worth? Many years ago an airplane crash on the Andes Mountain with a soccer team on board many people died instantly, but many of them survive. While they were waiting for rescue they started organizing themselves, few of them when to take out the dead bodies out of the plane while others started to take the lodged out to find some food and medicine. It was extremely cold so someone had the idea to make fire to worm up, while the others that were getting the lodge out found a bag with a million dollars, for a moment they though what to do with the money, but then they realize that this money had no value over the mountain so they decided to put it on the fire to worm up themselves. In this story we come to the conclusion that money in certain condition has no value itself; what money does have is power off exchange, I give the bill in exchange I got things Something similar happens with faith that doesn’t have power itself. What faith does have as money, is power of exchange, if I put my faith one idol I got nothing back on exchange because the idol have nothing to offer me, however if I put my faith in Jesus I receive a lot in exchange, because He have a lot to offer me.
In conclusion faith worth nothing itself, have no value alone but Christian faith have value and power only because Jesus
Resources : Adventist Biblical Research Title : Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E.G.W. Author : Angel Manuel Rodriguez
Reflection : I like the introduction of the Angel in this article. The author points out the reason of the disasters why we have. Fall of Adam and Eve is the initial or original reason. But it is not the end, Angel explored what EGW has to say about the results of fall and the plan of God for us about the salvation. Fortunately Adam accepted the special gift “His dear Son” Jesus Christ as our redeemer. How great of His love.
Adam is the representative of the human race. I do not know what is his feeling when Jesus second coming and he be resurrected. “As related to the first Adam, men receive from him nothing but guilt and the sentence of death."[39] We cannot inherit from Adam holiness and purity because he lost them. We inherit from him a sinful fallen human nature separated from God, guilty of rebellion against the Creator, and heading toward eternal extinction. The need of a Savior is immense.” Even Adam fall but God forgave him and provide a salvation plan for him and his family, Jesus Christ. How Great of our Almighty God !
I really so thankful that God provided us a wonderful salvation, otherwise we will just have ever long suffering from sin.
Roman 1 Paul said that in Chapter 1:16-17 : “ I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for that salvation of everyone….For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”
He said that the power of God for that salvation. It is a power and this power is from God. This text is very encouraging. This salvation is fully of God’s power and His love. Paul realized how powerful of God has so that he said “ I am not ashamed”. Nothing is impossible in Him.
He mentioned in 17, it is also really impressed me. Righteousness from God is revealed. He did not put it in secret. He is willing to let everybody to understand. That righteousness is by faith and from first to last. The righteousness will live by faith, we just live by faith then we will have this righteousness. How wonderful message it is !
Tim Peters Romans 2 Christ Saved the Human Race The Decade Before 1888
Romans 3:21 says that the righteousness of God is witnessed by the law and the prophets. I think that this is often overlooked when people read the law and the prophets. But when we look at the bigger picture and the Old Testament as a whole we can see the mercy of God how He wants to share His righteousness with sinners that they would be saved. Let us take more time to look for God’s righteousness in the Old Testament.
I appreciate the way that it was explained how Jesus is the bridge between sinful humans and between God. I had seen the visual before but this made it more clear to me how that works in life. I find it interesting to see how Christ’s death has overcome the power of Satan for each of us. We can’t really honestly say, “The devil made me do it.” As we accept Jesus as our Savior, he offers us not only eternal life but victory in this life over Satan. I usually do not think of those two things coming together as a package deal. The article by Angel Rodriguez did a good job of arguing for this.
I realize that we constantly struggle with sin. I am trying to see where the balance is between being given victory over the enslavement of Satan through Christ’s victory and still being a sinner who sins in this world. Please help me with this tension that exists in our every day real life.
I have wondered before how it came to be that Jesus life was the price that was needed to pay for the fall of Adam into sin. I thought it was interesting in the quote by Ellen White that it says that Christ made a sacrifice that satisfies “the principles of justice by which the kingdom of heaven is governed.” Those sound like principles that other worlds would not question God about because otherwise how would God be justified in saving sinners through the sacrifice of Jesus?
“Justification in Romans 3:21-24” Angel Manuel Rodriguez
There are two main things that I really like about Rodriguez’s commentary. First, he emphasizes that Paul uses the word “all” to bring out the universality of the gospel. The gospel is not just for Jews, but rather, for Jews and Gentiles alike. Second, I like that Rodriguez emphasizes our need for divine grace. Every one in the human family has sinned and is in need of divine grace. Every one in the human family has fallen short of the mark and is in need of divine grace. Every one in the human family is a created being, and is in need of diving grace.
Chapter 4 on Ellen White on Salvation
This chapter was a fascinating read, as it exposed some of the intimate journey of James and Ellen White, their relationship with each other, and their understanding of grace. It was interesting to see that the constant for Ellen White, the thing that kept coming to the surface in her writings (pre-1888), was God’s transforming grace. This idea, for Mrs. White, seems to be the antidote to her perfectionist background in both Holiness Methodism and Millerism.
Romans 3
“This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus” (Romans 3:22-24, NIV) These verses are key to an Evangelical’s understanding of salvation. To keep from getting on my soapbox about this group’s narrow view of what the Bible has to say about salvation, I will just deal with these verses, as they seem to be central to this chapter in Romans. For starters, the NIV mistranslates this verse. When looking at the Greek, the word for “faith,” as in “faith in Jesus Christ,” could be translated as a subject or object. Therefore, the verse could read “the faithfulness of Jesus Christ” or, as it reads in the NIV, “faith in Jesus Christ.” Since “faith” and “believe” are similar concepts, the NIV might as well read: “ . . . comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who have faith.” Fantastic. That makes a whole lot of sense. When reading this verse as it should be translated, “ . . .comes through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ to all who believe,” one is more inclined to see that it’s about what Jesus does, not what we as humans do. All we have to do is believe in Jesus’ faithfulness to us. Yes. That is something I can believe in.
Apparently chapter two of the book Ellen G White portrays several stages of her life since at the age of 9.Unfortunately she had to seek for salvation out fear of death as a result of the injury she i received. A pparently in itial her seriusness in looking fo r salvation was not christ motivated but fear of death. Doutlesly this is the way many have found themselves in the church today.Some desertded,others divorced ,others lonelness,others popurality and so forth.For that reason, she was unable to understand salvation as was presented by W.miller I noted that the subject on setoriology in history of the church has for long been miscontrued especially theoloically.In class i descovered that there two schools of thought called Calvinist and Arimenian,In my view the confusion came as a relsult of not looking for matters whoistically, and with a learning mind. As a member of both Millerite and methodist church , there developed a doctrinal problem which demanded an immidiate answer.The was a teaching that , full salvation was instant santification. To relate that to my clas work based on scriptural evidences, santification and justfication both are in three phases.past,persent, and future.Upon the biblical text evidances,given my view is that the teaching was not only untheological but also satanic .For any doctrine that canot lead one to jesus needs wholistic aproach.In conclusion i have noted that i k new too little about salvation or seteorology.The reading of this book has enlightened me enough in view of salvation in relation to my calss work.
Commenting on: •BRI Document: Ángel Manuel Rodríguez , Christ Saved the Human Race •Romans 2, Class notes •Whidden; Chapter Two: “Conversion, "Sanctification," and Early Ministry “
I think that Romans again seems to lean toward Armenian, within the discussion, “God leading you into repentance”(vs 4), “... according to his needs”(vs 6), “perseverance in doing good” (vs 7).
However, the question that comes that comes up is found in verse 10, “to the Jew first and also to the Greek” in the way a blessing and a curses? (2:9, 10) Why is there seemingly sequential order in the “everlasting” gospel. After all, the "everlasting gospel" is not bound by sequence or time. This "everlasting gospel" is the news of salvation. And several questions may be asked, "if Israel's blessings are freely upon to Gentiles, what then of the promises to Israel itself?”[1]
If the question is of sequence, Glenny lists four questions Paul possible addresses in Romans 2: 9-11. (1) How can God offer the gospel to all people if it is based on the Old Testament Scriptures, which give priority of place to the Jews? (2) How can this gospel be true if Israel as a whole rejected it? (3) How can this gospel go to the Gentiles if Israel does not first receive it? (4) If God has not kept His promises to the Israelites concerning their salvation and election, how can Christians be assured He will keep His promises to them?[2]
In the spirit of Hanna, I'll seek not to answer these questions in this document. I present them simply for considerations as you/we/I continue to develop a larger model personally and possibly officially for our church.
[1] James D. G. Dunn, Romans 1-8, Word Biblical Commentary (Dallas: Word, 1988), lxii. as quoted by Wayne A Brindle “’To the Jew First’: Rhetoric, Strategy, History, or Theology?,” Bibliotheca Sacra 159 (April-June 2002): 230.
[2] W. Edward Glenny, “The ‘People of God’ in Romans 9:25-26,” Bibliotheca Sacra 152 (January-March 1995): 46. as quoted by Wayne A Brindle “’To the Jew First’: Rhetoric, Strategy, History, or Theology?,” Bibliotheca Sacra 159 (April-June 2002): 230.
“James and Ellen: Their Compelling Personal Testimony” BRI: “Christ Saved the Human Race” Romans 3 Dale Baker
People always look up at other people who they believe to be more spiritual than they are. Some people believe that Pastors and Elders and even Conference officers are perfect people. But clearly Scripture reveals that there is no perfect person no not one (Rom 3:10). All are saved and made perfect only through Christ and Him alone, and no one has the right to say or claim that he or she is perfect, unless he or she is ready for translation.
When one searches the writings of Ellen White they will discover that even though she was a prophet she did not in any way claim that she was perfect or infallible. Many people miss the idea that Rom 3: 23 says where it states unequivocally that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. That’s why we tend to look for perfect people in this world. We will always be a work in progress as it relates to our salvation. Thus even throughout the life of EG White she saw the need constantly for Christ in her life just like anyone else.
Furthermore, even though we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, we can still have access to heaven and to God through Christ. Through Christ we can attain perfection as we trust Him and allow Him to live out His life within us. Why? Because Jesus has bridged the gap that sin has cause between us and God; and since He has done that it is incumbent on us to take hold of this blessing and live the life God desires of us at this time.
Week 3: “Justification in Romans 3:21-24” by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez Romans 3, Ellen White On Salvation Chapter 3.
In the decade leading up to 1888 we see Ellen White changing her shift from the defense against the Holiness movement to a greater emphasis on justification by faith. As the message of the importance of keeping God’s Ten Commandments was emphasized the accompanying danger of legalism was creeping into the ranks of Seventh-day Adventism. Ellen White’s views on Christian perfection were different to the holiness advocates and she continued to voice this difference.
It’s important to notice how knowing the background to a prophet’s (or biblical) message help to shape our understanding of their writings. This it the case for Paul’s argument in Romans 3.
So far in the book of Romans Paul has argued that all are unrighteous, including Gentiles (1:18-32) and Jews (2:1-3:8) and therefore all people (3:9-20). He now further argues in Romans 3 that the only solution to this unrighteousness is a righteousness that comes from God through Jesus Christ by faith.
Rodriguez in his treatise examined the nature of this righteousness by exegeting Romans 3:21-24:
"But now a righteousness from God, apart from the law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testified. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."
Rodriguez argues that “Paul has made it clear that the righteousness of God is the same as righteousness by faith in Christ for all who believe. He has not argued for two different types of righteousness, one that is legal and universal and not by faith, and another that is personal and by faith. He defined righteousness of God as justification by faith.”
This justification is not something that took place universally at the cross but is effected in the life of the sinner as he accepts the salvation provided at the cross by expressed and demonstrated faith in Jesus Christ. Any attempt by God to justify even the sinner who didn’t ask for it would give Satan an argument against God’s justice. “Available” and “accepted” are two very different views of justification.
From class discussion we can see that the issues of salvation involve the “everlasting Gospel” and therefore address a sin problem that goes beyond the human level. These are things that even the angels desire to look into. We don’t have to feel threatened in wrestling with the subject but there is a mystery beyond which we have to accept this salvation “by faith”.
As we seek a larger model may we find Jesus in the center!
Name: Desmond C. Haye Course: Doctrine of Salvation Articles Read: Rom.3, E.G. White on Salvation: “The Decade before 1888”
Whidden in his book Ellen White on Salvation brings to the fore pertinent issues regarding Ellen White’s understanding of justification. The author highlighted the fact that during the decade before 1888 Ellen White championed the view that there must be a balance between the obedience to the law of God and grace. This healthy tension was critical to dispel the fallacy that crept in among the believers that since we are saved by Jesus there is no need to be obedient to the law. She sought to show that those who are saved by Christ are not excused from obedience to the law of God. Ellen White was of the firm persuasion that, “Christ did not come to excuse sin, nor justify a sinner while they continued to transgress that law…” (25)This profound fact must be echoed so that all will understand that we need balance when we study the great plan of salvation. This healthy tension must be maintained so that extremist views on salvation will fade into thin air. I am of the persuasion that even among us today we still find those who forward the view that salvation is by law keeping only. Then there are others who claim that we don’t need the law once we have been saved. The former view was what I firmly believed when I was a Jehovah’s Witness. It is held among Jehovah’s Witnesses that our works only is what will enable us to receive the merits of Christ righteousness. This view I believed and practised faithfully, until I met Jesus. It was my encounter with Jesus that made the difference in my understanding of the full and free salvation that he offers. Furthermore, this full and free salvation was seen in a new light as I read the writings of Paul, whom many misunderstand on the subject. In Romans chapter 3 Paul sought to dispel the false view that the Jews had regarding salvation. He echoed the truth without compromise that: The Jews were specially chosen to be bearers of the oracles of God, a prerogative they lost because they took for granted the divine God. They became legalist and felt that man is justified by merely keep the law to every letter, a fallacy Jesus dispelled when he came to earth. The failure of the Jews did not mean that God failed to keep his promise to them. Even though they did not believe that Jesus was the promised Messiah, God was still reaching out to the Jewish nation. Therefore, Paul in this chapter declares that the law convinces them also of sin; and makes the pointed declaration that no flesh is justified by keeping the law. But we are saved by faith only; yet the law is not abolished. In highlighting this fact the apostle states in 3:20-23 that by the deeds of the law no flesh is justified in God’s sight, for the righteousness without the law is manifested, even the righteousness which is by faith in Jesus. So our justification is a free gift from God, and we cannot do anything to merit this gift. But even as we are justified by faith in Christ, we will faithfully walk with him in loving obedience to his laws. This, I believe gave hope to every Gentile believer, and is source of assurance to me today. It is very evident then that Ellen White’s view of justification is in accordance with scripture. Praise God for a balance that is biblical and true!
While it is important to be physically active in God’s Cause- doing good for others, returning a
faithful tithe, feeding the hungry, holding church offices, and doing good for our brothers and sisters.
It does appear that such activities do not do much to give us merits toward our salvation. The
Apostle Paul reasons :
Romans 4:2-5 “If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about-- but not before God. 3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." 4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness...Romans 4:13-16 It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, 15 because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression. 16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring-- not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. ”
Hence it stands to reason that being justified by faith, our works and own righteous acts are like
filthy rags before God. Any righteousness we bear is credited to us a gift from God. Belief then
becomes not just a prerequisite for salvation, but essential to be counted among the righteous.
Moreover, keeping the Law does not justify the sinner, merely points out his condition. In his book
Ellen White on Salvation Woodrow Whidden points out that when the Anti-Law Extremists of Mrs
White’s day; she did not only merely rebuke the perfectionism that was propagated, but she showed
balance in her ministry of Salvation. She highlights that salvation is only through Christ’s justifying
merits. Through faith in Christ we are enabled to keep the Law, but this does not mean that the Law
is abolished or replaced as secondary in importance. The Law shows us our condition, but Christ
fixes us! In his article, Christ saved the Human Race Angel Manuel Rodriguez convincingly
concludes: “The price paid for our redemption was the sacrificial death of Christ on the cross as our substitute and sin bearer—his atonement on the cross. It is after we receive him by faith "that we are blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ." The reality of the objective work of salvation and redemption that Christ has performed on behalf of the human race has made it possible for all to return to God and to acknowledge Christ as their rightful owner who can actually deliver them from the enslaving power of Satan.”
Marcus Malcolm Vassell Dr. Martin Hanna Doctrine of Salvation September 22, 2007
“A righteousness that is demonstrated apart from the Law” (Rom. 3:21) is not only good news because I can’t keep the law in my own strength but it is also good news because I have access to this righteousness equally like any one else by faith for Paul assures us that there is no distinction between Jews or gentiles, for all have sinned and fall short of God’s glory and all have access to His righteousness through faith. That is a reason to celebrate! Angel Rodriguez’ commentary on Romans 3:21-24 is very insightful in that he has helped me to look at Paul’s words in a new light. He makes a pretty good point when he states that all humanity is in the same boat with God as far as it comes to His favor and attaining to the righteousness that God requires that is achieved through faith. But what he had to say about God’s glory and our falling short of it is what resonated with me the most. That we humans have fallen short of God’s goal for us is evident, but the point htat Rodriguez makes is that that falling short means that we have defaced through our sinfulness the image of our Creator. Falling short doesn’t simply mean that we have missed some mark in not keeping some legal code but we have fallen short, failed to be what God designed us to be in character. Ellen White, according to Whidden, had a similar concept and approach in how she dealt with the Holiness people and fanatics in her time. Some leaned on the side of the impossibility of keeping the Law while others leaned toward the school thought that through the law one could attain salvation. However, Ellen white had a way of balancing the two appearing opposed views by claiming, and rightly so, that one cannot keep the law in order to be saved but one that is saved will keep the law (my paraphrase).
“James and Ellen: Their Compelling Personal Testimony”
Justification in Romans 3:21-24
Perfection has been one of the most discuss subjects in Christian circles. Its deliberation has resulted in the promulgation of various views and practices. The views embraced by those who dwell upon this topic whether good or bad are normally revealed in the way an individual practices perfection. For example, those who are of the notion that perfection can be obtained by keeping the law oftentimes practice to keep the law to be perfect. Thus, the belief of a person is demonstrated in his or her practices or life. Moreover, since what a person believes about perfection can shape his or her practices scripturally or unscripturally, it is rather crucial then that the Biblical understanding on this subject be discovered, embraced and practiced. A Biblical understanding is very important because it incorporates every aspect involved in the perfection process, in other words it presents a wholistic perspective on the topic. Take for instance, a person is made perfect by faith and not by works, nevertheless, one needs also to review the Biblical data regarding what part does work plays in the perfection process.
Moreover, as I read Ellen White’s personal testimonies on perfection, my consciousness has been awaken to its sensitivity, the need of humility and prayer whenever this subject is approached. As is shown by Woodrow in chapter 4 Ellen White was perfect, yet imperfect and at the same time was striving towards perfection. This raises an intriguing question, which is how a person can be perfect, yet imperfect and at the same time striving towards perfection? Viewing perfection then as justification, sanctification and glorification will undoubtedly shed much light in answering this question.
Follow seminarians how can a person be perfect, yet imperfect and at the same time striving towards perfection? I welcome your insights and feedback to this question.
This is a responce to Garfield Brown's last comment. And my responce is simply to affirm that I resonate with his sentiments regarding what perfection is and the what God requires of us. He said that "Christ expects us to have perfect love. We cannot be perfect, Christ makes up for our deficiencies. Therefore, if we abide in Christ we may be perfect- perfect in Character and perfect in love!"
And let me add that this kind of perfection, this kind of standard is more challenging than the usual law/rule based perfectionism that we are used to hearing about. The requirements of love surpass that of the written code.
Commenting on: • BRI Doc: Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10 • Romans 3, Class notes • Whidden; Chapter 3 “The Decade Before 1888”
The faithfulness of God is in question! God’s faithfulness is in question because of those that follow him are questionable.
Here is an interesting phenomenon that I see often in our SDA churches. Typically in service before the congregational prayer, the leader in prayer would ask, “how many of you have had a rough week?” In typical response, some people would respond with a raised hand or with a moan of some sort. I think however, that we have not had a rough week when we consider He who has had a “rougher” week because of you and me. I refer to God. He has had a rough week because of me… because of you, because of our unfaithfulness.
The Jews were entrusted with the word of God, and their unfaithfulness begs His faithfulness into question. Does that make the Jew worse than the non-Jew? No way, Romans 3 is clear that there is neither Jew nor Greek. And so we are all in the same boat.
And as we survey boat, we can notice that there are classes of people on this ride. The classes are not distinguished by class and rank – they are distinguished by being righteous and the unrighteous. And even then, many of the unrighteous considered the "righteous" to be "unrighteous." Fair enough - because that highlights a paradox discussed in class that I'm still trying to wrap my mind around.
If we are all born in sin, therefore unrighteous, how can an unrighteous person be righteous? Van Bemelen points out that the answer is found in Psalms 32 and 51. One can only become righteous when he truly repents and receives forgiveness. Rodríguez is clear on commenting on 1 Timothy 4:10 that salvation is not universal, in other words salvation is not universally provided to everyone. Everyone is not saved! (cf 1 Tim 2:4). E.G. White, also supports that salvations is by faith in Jesus alone. Salvation is for the righteous, it is “for all men, that is, of those that believe.” (1 Tim 4:10).
Romans 3: This chapter covers God’s righteousness in condemnation and righteousness by faith. It also covers the benefit of being a Jew and that both Jews and Gentiles are unrighteous.
Whidden, Woodrow W. “Chapter Three: The Decade Before 1888,” from: Ellen White on Salvation. Berrien Springs: R&H Catalog Service.
This chapter focused on Ellen White’s balanced view of salvation despite the polarization of the holiness movement of perfection and then the opposite tendency to neglect the law and obedience. She always claimed salvation by faith through Christ but this new life was to be characterized by living in obedience to the Savior. Therefore God saves us from darkness not to stay in darkness but to move to the light.
Rodríguez, Ángel Manuel. Justification in Romans 3:21-24. http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/justificationRom%203-21-24.htm
This paper focuses on the righteousness of God through faith apart from works. This righteousness is a new way of salvation that does not involve works. This salvation is also inclusive of all people; Jews and Gentiles. Romans states that all have sinned and fallen short apart from the original sin. Therefore, this sin is our own responsibility and denotes a continuing inability to live up to God’s standards. This righteousness then is not earned but a gift from Christ through the cross. Then God declares those who believe righteous. My question then is how individuals prior to Christ were declared righteous through faith even when they had no knowledge of the cross or Jesus. Is there then room for a belief that non-Christians will be in heaven even those who were exposed to Christians?
Reading materials: 1. Romans 1. 2. Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White by Ángel Manuel Rodriguez 3. Chapter one: the salvation dilemma: how shall we proceed?
Angel Manuel Rodriguez elaborated an article based on what Woodrow could say it is the late reflection stage of Ellen G. White about the topic of salvation of human race. He made a good summary on a salvation history as it was understood after a long life time of Ellen White. He chose very correctly Ellen G. white quotations and understanding regarding the way of salvation.
The other side of this article is that even though it displays a consistent history of human salvation from Eden and its restoration, it has a lacking of detail that has been discussed in our class sections. It does not present the currents struggles that seventh Day Adventist is facing regarding of this topic.
It is a good introduction material that fit very well with the introduction chapter of Woodrow. He state that the key to understand Ellen ZG. White understanding regarding salvation is “begin with intense personal study…take a hard look at all, not just some, of what Ellen White had to say about salvation and closely related issues.”
I am looking forward to see others documents and articles about this subject. Even though I will not look at all the Ellen White materials on salvation, I may confront different exponents of view on the same area. I hope this could give me a good balance during the process.
Reading materials: 1. Romans 2. 2. Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification by Larry J. Kane. 3. Chapter two, Conversion, Sanctification and early ministry.
What I understand about this article is that Larry J. Kane has declared that the doctrine of universal legal justification is not biblical. It has not represent either the 1888 Message Study Committee ("1888 MSC") and Ellen G. White understanding of it.
As I understood, Kane said that Universal justification it is a doctrine that proclaim that all humans were condemned under Adam’s sin but all are justified as result of Christ death and resurrection. It seems to me that Kane picture universal justification as Universalism that believe that God is going to save all human being regarding if they believe in him or not.
I agree with Kane on the emphasis that Bible place on the choice of humans to believe in Christ in order to be saved. Even though he mentioned that Romans chapter 3, 5, and 8 emphasizes a universal justification but just for those who believe in Christ, I still have some questions. When Jesus Christ die and resurrected were humans being placed in another status toward God? When the juridical justification was given to all the man after Jesus dies and resurrected or during our acceptance of his sacrifice?
I have heard about a grace provision time that God justified provisionally all men. He does that in order that they may accept his grace. If they refuse it the provisional and temporal grace and justification will not be granted any more. I am not sure about it. It seem to me that Humans has a free will to choice to be save or not, but in the same time Jesus sacrifice were given when men were sinners and not wanted to be with his creator.
Let me continue wrestling with this issue. I probably will ask it during our class time.
Salvation Week 3 Submission Greetings again, fellow students. It is amazing how God works. It just happened that I read Romans 3 and the article ‘Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification’. Things just seem to work that way at times. Where do I begin? First I really enjoyed the Bible reading and the fact that Paul states pretty plainly that Jews and Gentiles are in the same boat. This gets interesting. I have not done a lot of study in this area so you will have to forgive me if I go on hear say but I have heard it said that the Christian church is nothing but grafted on branches to a tree that is Jewish. Almost implying that we are not as good as they are nor are we even God’s original plan. I understand some of what is behind this but I want to know what the class has to say about this. On the issue of the Justification of Christ here is where I stand at the moment. I say at the moment because I am constantly learning and reevaluating. I believe that we were all cursed by Adam’s sin and that because of this we were all lost. When Jesus came and died on the cross we were all given the gift of Salvation. Because of this gift we now had a choice of allegiances again. Are we going to serve God or Satan? He gave this gift to everyone because He died for everyone, but like any other gift it needed to be accepted. If it is not accepted then we are not saved. That doesn’t mean that God only gave the gift to a few people nor does it mean that we automatically are saved. I want to know what the class has to say on this. I hope you all have a great week and I will see you in class.
Do We Like to Retain God in Our Knowledge? Romans 2 continues with the same thought of chapter one. Paul begins, “Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things.” (“Such things” refers to chapter one’s list of sinful characteristics found in people who fail to “retain God in their knowledge” and thus separate themselves from God…vv 28-31.) Thankfully God is Judge and we aren’t. Knowing this and living this, of course are two different things. Paul asks the question “…do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?” The obvious answer is NO, of course not! But the truth is we all have not only practiced “such things”…[sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness, whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, and unmerciful.]…but we’ve also judged people as well for practicing them. Why? We “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God”...so why is it that we feel worthy to play judge sometimes? I believe it goes back to Paul’s phrase “…they did not like to retain God in their knowledge”…How about us? Do we like to retain God in our knowledge? If not, then the automatic fallout is the development of a unbiblical picture of God. If we fail to retain a knowledge of God as He is revealed in Jesus Christ in the Bible, then we begin to view God as distant and judgmental, ever-ready to condemn us…judge us. It’s with this paradigm…this “false knowledge of God” that we become ever-increasingly unmerciful and judgmental.
In response to 'Christ Saved the Human Race' by Angel Manuel Rodriguez
After reading this article, I found it was splitting hairs. I liked how the author took a closer look at some EGW comments on salvation and clarified a few things, but to my mind he didn't really clarify WHY the paper was important (ie. how Jesus providing the 'possibility to be united with God' was that different from Jesus legally saving the whole human race.) Perhaps my bias is already that way, but when I hear 'Jesus legally saved the whole human race' I don't jump to universal salvation. I do see Jesus as triumphant over Satan and whether you use the 'legally justified' term or not, I see that in a 'potential' or made available sense. I also checked all the occurrences of 'justified' in the NIV and NASB and none them indicate a universal justification. Only one verse comes close, and that is Is. 45:25 “In the LORD all the offspring of Israel will be justified and will glory.” (NASB) We could go digging into this verse, but for now, I have the personal premise that I don't build any big theology off of one verse or isolated EGW comments.
In response to Ch. 5 from Whidden. (EGW and the Bible)
So far I really like this book, especially the chronological method of presenting ideas. In there he brought up those quotes from GC about having to ‘stand in the sight of holy God with out a mediator…’ (425, 623). Alhtough Whidden stated that this would be dealt with in section 4 of the book, I have to put something out on the web because the controversy surrounding these comments, noteably the ‘last generation theology.’
As I have personally run into people who hold this view (coming from experience, not reading in the library), my basic summary is that the last generation has to be perfect, so perfect that they can survive before God with the ‘protection of Jesus.’ That although all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (check out the present tense in the Greek on this one) and the robe of Christ covers our PAST, that we must get closer and closer to sinlessness until you are sinless. Only at that point can you stand before God without a mediator.
Now, without jumping ahead to section 4 (which I am looking forward to), there is a hermeneutical issue here. I have the personal premise that I don't build any big theology off of one verse. If it is important to God, He will have His truth mentioned several times in His word. I should get a lot of amens for that. However, here’s the controversy: I try not to BASE any theology off of EGW comments. (Here's something to get some comments). Agreeing that she is a prophet, I still have serious reservations about basing our theology off of her writings. It seems ALL our theology should come directly from the Bible and IF she points us to relevant texts or passages or clarifies the Bible, then great. But, if you cannot clearly support an idea or belief from clear teaching of scripture (including the verses that seem to contradict that idea), then you don’t have a theology.
The problem is I've seen a lot of weird theology come from misusing EGW. Part of my theory why this happens is because she wrote SOOO much that that SDA's have an easier time taking her comments out of context or simply misusing them (i.e. there just simply more material written to so many different specific contexts that simply the opposite truth would apply to an opposite context – i.e. advice to a workaholic vs. advice to a sloth would give opposite ‘inspired quotes’). Something I really appreciate about our church is how we promote vegetarianism but have not made it a requirement despite the strong statement EGW says. The reason is because in the Bible you can’t make a requirement that would exclude Jesus from fellowship (Jesus not only fed 1000’s of people fish the 5000 and 4000, but also ate fish himself -- Luke 24:42-43 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence.) I think we need to stick by principles like – promote what EGW said, but keep requirements out of the Bible alone. (this should get some good comments)
Reflection Paper #3 Romans Three / The Ark of the Covenant Will It Be Found?/ Ellen White on Salvation Testimony of James and Ellen White: In a final personal testimony on Perfection, Ellen White laid no claim on perfection, but stated that she is trying to be perfect. She stated that if she could not associate with her brothers and sisters who are not perfect she did not know what she would do. The following quotation is deserving of direct representation: "I try to treat the matter the best that I can, and am thankful that I have a spirit of uplifting and not a spirit of crushing down. . . . No one is perfect. If one were perfect, he would be prepared for heaven. As long as we are not perfect, we have a work to do to get ready to be perfect. We have a mighty Savior. . . . "I rejoice that I have that faith that takes hold of the promises of God, that works by love and sanctifies the soul" (quoted in RH, July 23, 1970).32 “ While the details of her understanding of what constitutes an experience of sanctification and perfection would change over the years, no changes in social status, geography, denominational growth, or advances in doctrinal sophistication and expression would change her constant emphasis on God's great transforming power." Romans Chapter 3: 10 As it is written , there is none righteous, no not one. Each person is born in sin: Behold, I was born in sin and shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. Ps 51:6. The apostle Paul considered himself to be a sinner: This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. I Tim.1:15. In seeking perfection, should the aim of every Christian be to seek to uplift instead of tear down. Every Christian should strive toward perfection for the word of God says Be ye therefore perfect, even as your father in heaven is perfect. Matt.5:48. This chapter continues to discuss the depravity of the tongue and of its aim at destruction. It speaks of deceit, hypocrisy, slander and other vicious acts…and ultimately concludes there is no fear of God. To every believer : But the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Ps 19:1, 7-10
vs 1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Vs 7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. Vs 8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. Vs 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. Vs 10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. “More to be desired are they than gold denotes something of value or great worth. Therefore perfection should be something to be desired of value or great worth. I believe that at the time of a believer’s death whatever level of spiritual growth that has been reached by faith will be perfected by the righteousness of Jesus. Be ye therefore perfect, even as your father in heaven is perfect. Matt.5:48. In the article: The Ark of the Covenant: Will It be found ? With a discussion here of Heavenly Sanctuary and the Earthly Sanctuary. It was stated that the Law of God in the sanctuary in heaven is the great original of what the precepts inscribed upon the table of stone and recorded by Moses in the first five books of the Old Testament, and were an unerring transcript. The section of the laws (the Ten Commandments; Ex. 20:1-17 were said to be hidden by righteous men in a cave shortly before the destruction of the temple by the Babylonians in the time of Jeremiah. When the judgment shall sit, these tables of stone now lying in the Ark of the Testament will be convincing. "With His own finger God wrote His commandments on two tables of stone. These tables were not left in the keeping of men, but were placed in the ark; and in the great day when every case is decided, these tables, inscribed with the commandments, will be placed so that all the world will see and understand. The witness against them will be unanswerable." -Letter 30, 1900 (MR 1401). "While these words of holy trust ascend to God, the clouds sweep back, and the starry heavens are seen, unspeakably glorious in contrast with the black and angry firmament on either side. The glory of the celestial city streams from the gates ajar. Then there appears against the sky a hand holding two tables of stone folded together. Says the prophet: 'The heavens shall declare His righteousness: for God is judge Himself' (Psalm 50:6). That holy law, God's righteousness, that amid thunder and flame was proclaimed from Sinai as the guide of life, is now revealed to men as the rule of judgment. The hand opens the tables, and there are seen the precepts of the Decalogue, traced as with a pen of fire. The words are so plain that all can read them." -GC 639. Nowhere is it said that the tables of the law will be brought forth by men as a result of finding them hidden in a cave. In fact, it is clearly stated that God Himself will bring forth the tables of the law to the view of men, and in one statement Ellen White specifies that "these tables of stone are in the heavens."' Moreover, the time when He will do this is said specifically to be: " when every case is decided in the courts of heaven;" "at the judgment."
Romans 3 To Paul, Jews and Greeks are sinners alike. This tells us that we are all sinners (apart from God). The Law stands by itself because it is the character of God just as God stands alone. There is the Law and there is the Law of Faith which says that “man is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law. Faith’s purpose is to “establish the Law”, faith then is the act of getting reconciled with God by accepting his gift of salvation that as a result it reconciles us with the Law through willing obedience. The Decade Before 1888 Ellen White continues her war against the “Holiness fanatics” and to those who were Bible students, like Elder Brown, who claims that obedience to the “Law” cannot be possible with men. Her emphasis was on the Justification by the blood of Christ which eventually brought fruits to obedience to His laws. Her voice on ‘Justification by FAITH” became much louder than ever, even sensing the surge of the “legalist” who claims to have been freed from sin by their own works first before God could forgive them. This she declared was not the way God intends it, rather it’s the reverse. God declares us justified by faith making us reconciled with him and therefore made us friends with law and no more under it but with it.
BRI Christ Saved the Human Race Ángel Manuel Rodríguez
In this article Angel Rodriguez made it clear tat Ellen never was a supporter of “Legal Justification” as claimed by those who quote her statements out of context and wrongfully interpret her thoughts. The author made it clear that such a theology could never be found in the Bible neither in the writing of Ellen White. Sad to say that until now such a stand is embraced by some of our theologians such as, Jack Sequeira, he wrote, "I believe the Bible teaches that God actually and unconditionally saved all humanity at the cross so that we are justified and reconciled to God by that act (Romans 5:10, 18; 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19). I believe that the only reason anyone will be lost is because he or she willfully and persistently rejects God's gift of salvation in Christ" (Beyond Belief [Boise, ID: Pacific Press, 1993], p. 8).
Now what do you think about the very words of Jesus found in John 3:16 “… that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life.”? I think this is the theology where Jesus stands, “the freedom of choice”. I for one don’t believe in salvation by force. But as a parent myself, I think if I know that my mature child is perishing and doesn’t acknowledge a need for help, the only thing I can do is to be persistent in offering my help until a final choice is made either by me or my child. I think that's how it works with all the articles and verses I've read and stand for it. Dan
This week’s readings have raised some important issues about justification and the process that led up to our present understanding on the subject. One thing is obvious and that is our understanding of sanctification, righteousness by faith, the whole plan and process of salvation for that matter is an evolving and dynamic process. Another important lesson learned is that one should avoid the temptation be dogmatic when taking position on the issue. As can be seen from the readings our pioneer did struggle and wrestle in the years leading up the 1888 General Conference session. The debate continues today only now with more sophisticated in terms of terminologies used. The concepts of objective and subject justification and their implications are brought to bear. The question is do we have to choose between both concepts or is there room for both concepts in a bigger model? I think so. It is true that Christ’s death offers salvation to everyone, but His death does not allow continued disobedience to the law. Paul clearly and decisively eliminates any warrant for such a misconception. Answering his own rhetorical query, "Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?" Paul states emphatically, "God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" (Rom. 6:1, 2). One should always bear in mind that salvation for humanity is God’s initiative and not man’s. Man’s duty is to accept what God has already provided through Christ’s death on the Cross. As Ellen states no one is perfect but she also states that we have imputed righteousness. Nonetheless, man has to act in that he has to make confession of Christ. "He that .believeth on him shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (John 5:24)
This summer I was on a road trip with good friends to TN to do some rock climbing. Down there we stayed at the house of some very sincere Christians who attended a Calvinist lean church. During our time (this was not our first time there) predestination came up, and in an attempt to not be ‘the pastor, so what I say goes’ type guy I humbly listened to them explain their views of ‘God’s sovereignty (which is a Calvinist take on what we would see at predestination). We discussed it for over an hour and the bottom line was that they freely admitted to not liking the doctrine of predestination, but as they studied it they saw no way around it. The Bible simply taught that God predestined people to heaven or hell and that He was God and he was allowed to do this ‘(i.e. God is allowed to ‘play God’). Now, myself also disliking ‘predestination’ I tried to show them all the ‘free choice’ verse I could think of from Genesis to Joshua to Acts to Revelation…. They liked those, but they came back to me (the SDA pastor) with ‘but that sounds nice, and I want to believe it, BUT THE BIBLE teaches predestination….’ The problem is, and I told them up front, the Bible is my standard for my belief, and not my denomination. But here they were giving me the texts. The main text, that seemed to be the clearest was Romans 8, especially 29 - 30
”For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” (NIV)
So there is was, clear Biblical teaching on predestination (although I felt I had a much larger ‘stack’ of verses on choice, they kept coming back here). To be honest, I was stuck. This passage seemed pretty clear and I took the majority rule in my own head (i.e. more verses as well as the ‘big picture’ of the Great Controversy), and that I was okay with one verse that didn’t fit in for now. Go with the greatest support. When I came back I talked to Dr. Hanna and he opened the text and asked me how the sequence started. I can’t believe I didn’t see it before; predestination is not the beginning, foreknowledge is the beginning. If God foreknew, then it was not just an arbitrary choice by God (i.e. God ‘playing God’) but he foreknew, THEN He predestined. I’m still trying understand all what this means, but that sequence to me is very significant. I’d like to hear what you think.
Incarnation with out sin? (a personal comment by Walter)
Talking of good coming from sin (see my comment responding to Dr. Hanna’s comment to Montes), most of us would agree that Jesus’ incarnation was good thing, right? A friend once shared that she believed that Jesus would have been incarnated even if humans had never sinned BECAUSE she didn’t like the idea of ANYTHING good coming from sin. I respect her reasoning, but I have to say that I don’t think there would have been a need for the incarnation of Christ without sin. Not sure what would have happened to Lucifer and the fallen angels (there’s a whole other topic about the possibility of their redemption), but man would not have needed to be redeemed since he had not fallen. A couple verses that come to mind are…
Rm 5:20 …But where sin increased, grace increased all the more… Rm 28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[a] who[b] have been called according to his purpose.
So, do you think that the incarnation still would have happened had Adam/Eve never fallen?
No redemption for angels? (a personal comment by Walter)
Why do we never talk about the redemption of angels? It seems odd that such extreme measures were taken to save humans who had fallen. You could say that we were deceived by Satan, but had not the 1/3 of the angels been deceived by Satan, who like the snake was a beautiful and seemingly trustworthy creature? You could say the angels knew better and had had communion with God, but so had Adam and Eve. I can’t think of any Biblical reference to the redemption of angels. 1 Corinthians 6:3 says that “Do you not know that we will judge angels?...”, but I don’t see anything about their possibility of changing back to God’s side.
I am sure I am not original enough to be the first person to wonder about this, so please share some of your thoughts. Maybe some of you know of some EGW comments that might relate to this.
ELLEN WHITE ON SALVATION WOODROW WHIDDEN II THE NATURE OF CHIRST AND SALVATION COMENTS ON CHAPTER 8: When we bring the subject of the nature of Christ we can’t escape of very complicated questions, in which many give different opinions thus bringing but complications. In chapter 8 of the book I found simple answers on the nature of Christ, I must recognize that the subject is a mystery. Reading this chapter I found a quote from Ellen White who the author makes reference and I want it to mention too here “Christ reaches us where we are. He took our nature and overcame, that we through taking His nature might overcome. Made in the likeness of sinful flesh, He lived a sinless life” (DA 311, 312). Sometimes we get to complicate when the major news is that all that mystery of the incarnation was done in favor of the human race so that this could be save from sin. Two mixed nature is impossible to explain, nevertheless Jesus possess both, here is to another quote found in the book: “Christ could have done nothing during His earthly ministry in saving the fallen man, if the divine had not been blended with the human” I just like to accept what God had done for me, making the impossible possible to give me salvation.
ELLEN WHITE ON SALVATION WOODROW WHIDDEN II THE NATURE OF CHIRST AND SALVATION COMENTS ON CHAPTER 8: When we bring the subject of the nature of Christ we can’t escape of very complicated questions, in which many give different opinions thus bringing but complications. In chapter 8 of the book I found simple answers on the nature of Christ, I must recognize that the subject is a mystery. Reading this chapter I found a quote from Ellen White who the author makes reference and I want it to mention too here “Christ reaches us where we are. He took our nature and overcame, that we through taking His nature might overcome. Made in the likeness of sinful flesh, He lived a sinless life” (DA 311, 312). Sometimes we get to complicate when the major news is that all that mystery of the incarnation was done in favor of the human race so that this could be save from sin. Two mixed nature is impossible to explain, nevertheless Jesus possess both, here is to another quote found in the book: “Christ could have done nothing during His earthly ministry in saving the fallen man, if the divine had not been blended with the human” I just like to accept what God had done for me, making the impossible possible to give me salvation.
Doctrine of Salvation Comments on Romans 4 Eric Ollila
Romans 4:3—"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness."
What was counted for righteousness? What is the “it” referring to? It is his belief. Abraham “believed” God, and “it” was counted unto him for righteousness. Therefore we could phrase it this way: Abraham’s belief was counted for righteousness.
Notice verse 9 clarifies it: “Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumscision also? For we say that 'faith' was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.”
In other words, faith was attributed to Abraham for righteousness. Faith was assigned as an attribute of Abraham for righteousness. Abraham’s faith was counted as his righteousness.
Was the faith of Abraham a type of works? The answer is NO. Why? Because Romans 4:5 clearly says that “to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” In other words, Paul is saying that the person whose faith is counted for righteousness “worketh not.” Quite simply, he does not work, he believes. Believing and working are two different things.
Rom. 4:5 (KJV) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom. 4:9 through Rom. 4:23 (KJV) Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? For we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10How was it then reckoned? When he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11And he received the sign of circumcision, [as] a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had [while he was still] uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed [attributed or credited] unto them also: 12And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised [which he had while he was still uncircumcised]. 13For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness [that is] of faith. 14For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. 16Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, 17(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. [In other words, Abraham was made the father of many nations by God. God made Abraham the father of many nations. The God who made Abraham the father of many nations is the God that resurrects the dead, He gives life to things that have no life, and He calls things that are not even in existence, as though they already existed.]
[Having faith in this God that calls things that are not in existence as though they already existed, Abraham, who is the father of us all,] 18…against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, so shall thy seed be. 19And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah’s womb: [in other words he didn’t worry about his own physical limitations or the physical limitations of Sarah. He did not even stop to consider that with his body it was impossible to be a father when he was deciding whether to have faith in God’s promises or not. Nor did he allow the consideration of Sarah’s limitations to be a mother, determine his faith in God’s promises. The thought of his body not being able to do the job was not taken into account when determining whether he would believe God’s word or not] 20He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Notice that Abraham was fully persuaded that what God had promised to do, God was also able to perform. If God wanted to cause Abraham and Sarah to have children, Abraham had faith that God could do it because God is the Creator. He can do all things. Because of this belief in God, verse 22 says “therefore it [his belief] was imputed to him for righteousness.” And the beauty of it all is this: Rom. 4:23 through Rom. 4:25 (KJV) 23Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Marvelous, simply marvelous is the Great God, Lord of heaven and earth!!!
The BRI article on “Christ saved the Human race” touch on a number of important points; one is that we belong to Christ because he purchased us through his death. This presupposes that we were owned by Satan. I am not sure I understand how Satan can claim ownership of the human race because of Adam’s sin, but it is significant enough for Jesus to die on the cross of Calvary to redeem mankind. Some may ask that; since due to one man’s sin all died automatically with out any effort of their own, why then can’t all received salvation through Jesus’ death with out any effort of their own? Paul seems to be rhetorically asking the same question in Romans 3:3. What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it? It is interesting to note that although paid the price for us He also has to make an effort to rescue us. Human is in such bondage by Satan that he has to be persuaded to accepted the salvation that is offered by Jesus. It seems to me that it takes the sacrifice of Jesus plus the continuous prompting and guiding of the Holy Spirit to save man. In the book E G white and salvation in the chapter dealing with testimonies, the concept of perfection is addressed and how it relate to working for our salvation or only believing in Jesus. Does belief demands perfection? James and Ellen white did not think so, for the realized that they were not perfect. Paul states it in Romans 3:10 as it is written, "There is none righteous, not even one.” I conclude that salvation is a fee gift From God to man, man’s only effort is to that gift which when accepted by man is exhibited through his works.
Matena Kefa O. Reflection on the doctrine of salvation:
According to Paul in his letter to the Romans and the Biblical Research Institute document one, there are several ways of understanding the doctrine of justification, different ways to present the subject and a fair deal of considerations among Christians today. In Chapter 1 of Romans, verse 1-15, Paul labors to introduce his agenda to the group of Christians in Rome. Actually verses 16-18 marke the introduction of his thesis on justification. the satet of affairs was wanting more especially to those in the Gentile world. Paul begins by saying that he could not be ashamed of the gospel for it is the power of salvation to all mankind. The gospel is the power of salvation, without the power of God, the gospel could be just meaningless to the universe. He goes ahead to say that it is to only those who who believe. Jews and gentiles now stand on the same level, where there is none superior then the other for by Christ they are equall. Our misery and ruin beng the product and consequence of our iniquities, that which will show us the way of salvation must salvation the way of justification and actually the gospel does it. It is the rightousness of Christ, who is God resulting from a satisfaction of infinite value set forth to reconcile the humanity. It is said to be from faith to faith - meaning continually depending upon God all throughout the Christian experience, with a view of being part and parcel of that glorification soon to take place as the salvation history of mankind will enter into a climax. As Adam before the fall, to the faith of depending upon a Mediator, and so dealing with God, same way, becoming true Christians in our endeavours. Faith is all in all, both in the beginning and in the progress of the Christian journey. It is not from faith to works as if faith puts us into a justified state and then works, preserves and mantaines us in it, but it is all along faith to faith.
Matena Kefa O. In Romans 2, Paul begins yet another part of his series.In chapter 1, he addressed the Jews mainly, but in this second one, he addresses the problem of judgement,God's role in judgemeny,law and judgement, the insufficiency of the law and finally outward inward circumcision.Paul says in verse 5 that those who judge are storing up wrath for the day of God's judgement.According to Paul, when God judges, both righteousness and wrath are revealed.God gives to each according to what he or she has done.For those who do good,this means eternal life;those who do evil,it will mean wrath or God's anger.This confirms salvation by works.How are we to marry this picture of judgement as the reward for either good or evil,works with the concept that we are not saved on the basis of our good works? Is faith the means by which Christians enter salvation? and works the way they stay in salvation?Paul makes it clear that all are sinners and stand under God's wrath(3:23).There is no one person who will be declared righteous by obseving the law.The best the law can do is to make us aware of what sinners we are(3:20).Paul continues to suggest that God's final judgement by affirming God's impartiality.Earlier Paul proclaimed the fact that the gospel was for the Jews first and then for the Gentiles(2:9).He reiterates that glory, honor, and peace will come to all who do good first for the Jew and the for the Gentiles(v.10).The privilege of the gospel brings responsility.God's selection of a special people was never intended as an act of favourism.Different groups of people have different roles to play in God's plan of salvation.God's impartiality and lack of favourism shows that we are all in the same boat- that of sin tossed about in the angry waves of God's wrath.
Name: Desmond C. Haye My views on the “Bigger Model of Salvation”
As I sat and listened to the discussions in class regarding the free salvation that God has given, I am challenged. This challenge arises out of the unending discussion on what our dear professor Dr Hanna terms “splitting ears” over minute word meanings. The parties involved in this unending saga are merely warring over words to no avail. This “war” is doing more harm in eroding the foundation that has been laid by our pioneers. While we must not be stagnant in our understanding of salvation, we need not become extremist or pharisaical in the new perspectives we present. We must endeavor to deal fairly with the issues at hand without compromising our fundamental principles. We must ever seek to exalt the word of God as the foundation of our understanding of salvation.
I am excited about the bigger model. I believe there are merits to us developing and utilizing such a model. Hopefully, it will help to ease the tension that now exists and bring us to deeper levels of understanding of the salvation plan; but the question arises as to where and when should we begin? What are the advantages, and possible disadvantages that that we might encounter in this bigger model? And should we achieve a model that is so broad that it encompasses all the views in christendom what would be the our perspective as Seventh-day Adventists? And what would we call others from, or would that be necessary at all seeing that our bigger model includes all others? Furthermore, when we arrive at this bigger model will it lead to complacency among us? I posit that if a bigger model of salvation is achieved and our uniqueness as a people is lost, then this model would have failed. In this model certain fundamental principles must be laid down namely: a) Jesus is the basis of our salvation (Acts 4:12) b) Justification, Sanctification and Glorification with there past, present and future implications are crucial building blocks in this bigger model (Rom.4:25; 3:28; Heb 10:10:1 Thess. 5:13; Rom8:30 et. al) c) Faith and perseverance are vital conditions for Salvation (Acts 16:31; Matt 10:22) d) It must be understood that we have a divine guarantee in Jesus, “an inheritance that is incorruptible and undefiled…..” (1 Pet. 1:4-5). e) Salvation is by grace alone; however God works through our work (Phil 2:12-13)
While the foregoing are all fundamentals, and by no means exhaustive it is necessary that mention be made of them less we forget. I am excited about this bigger model of our understanding of salvation, and effort must be made to challenge one another towards achieving it so that we can grow in our understanding of salvation. So let us talk bigger and better on Soteriology.
“Some Theological Considerations of Perfection” Edward Heppenstall
“With all the biblical counsel to be perfect, nowhere do we find the believer claiming to have reached sinless perfection even though he is designated as ‘perfect’ [mature].”
This is basically another one of those BRI articles that is trying to straighten out “historical Adventists” from thinking that salvation comes by being “perfect,” as in, “sinless.” Heppenstall makes it clear that number one: the Greek word for “perfect” in the Bible does not mean sinless, but rather spiritually mature, and number two: we are only saved through the grace of Jesus.
Chapter 5 on Ellen White on Salvation
This chapter makes clear that the doctrine of salvation is not set in a vacuum. Rather, it relates with the Adventist beliefs of the Great Controversy, Closing Events and the Law.
The Great Controversy theme is key, in that it points to the profound balance between grace and law, as does EGW’s understanding of the doctrine of salvation.
Romans 4
“It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith” (Romans 4:13).
In this chapter Paul once again deals with circumcision, and the idea that righteousness only comes through faith—not through keeping the law.
I wonder, with this and other chapters in Romans, how much has Martin Luther shaped our preconceptions when approaching this book?
My comment is in regard to Walter (9/24/07 2:55pm):
I agree that Rodriguez (like many of the BRI writers) seemed to be splitting hairs in this article. However, there are some verses of the Bible that one could use to point to a doctrine of universalism: 1 Cor. 15:12, Col. 1:20, Rom. 5:18, for example . . . These verses may not have the word “justified” in them, but they could lean one to further investigate the idea of God’s grace saving all.
Class: Doctrine of Salvation Assignment: Reading Reflection Report #2 By: Eric Ollila
Book: Understanding Scripture Chapter: Chapter 1--“Historical background of Adventist Biblical Interpretation” Author: Alberto R. Timm
The author, in his study, states that Christian churches were originally built upon the hermeneutical platform of the Bible as its own interpreter. Soon after the church began to lose hold of this platform and began accepting non biblical hermeneutical principles.
The chapter highlights some major hermeneutical turning points within the Christian Church. This larger backdrop is then used to provide a background of the Seventh-day Adventist approach to interpreting Scripture. (pg. 1).
Alberto Timm, on Judaism to Christianity, highlights that the Babylonian captivity of Israel marked a “defining historical land mark” for the Jewish religion. (pg 1). The reason they were taken into captivity was because of their disobedience to the law and warnings of the prophets. Thus afterward, they tended to shift toward “a more rigid obedience” to the law and Sabbath as defined by tradition.
Three distinctive approaches to Scripture developed within the geographical, cultural and religious context of Judaism. Rabbinic Judaism, Hellenistic Judaism, and the ascetic Qumran Community with their eschatological tenor. (pg. 2). “Christianity was born within the context of Rabbinic Judaism.” (pg. 2).
Christ and his disciples emphasized the exclusive authority of Scripture over all other sources of religious knowledge. He condemned certain traditions that nullified the word of God. “He also opposed any cultural accommodations of the word of God that would nullify its power.” (pg. 2).
However, with time post-Apostolic Christianity compromised its faithfulness to the Word and accommodated Greco-Roman culture and thus the allegorical method of Bible interpretation crept in.
It was interesting to me that the reformation was a “hermeneutical reformation.” The Bible was restored to its central place—above tradition. It was also interesting that “while Hellenistic Jews and medieval Christians employed the allegorical method to accommodate the Bible toward the respective cultures in which they lived, modern rationalists developed the historical-critical method to accommodate the Bible backwards to the ancient cultures in which it was produced.” (pg. 4).
When applied to the Bible, the historical-critical method led many to reinterpret its references to miracles and to supernatural interventions as human rhetorical devices and it message as obsolete in the modern scientific setting.
It seems that each time there is a reform; it is based on hermeneutical principles. There seems to be a correction. Furthermore, it seems that from the time of Christ through the dark ages, the pure hermeneutical principles of Christ were lost sight of. The reformers rediscovered those principles and sub-sequent reformers tend to further clarify and expand them.
Articles Read: “Some Problems with Legal Universal Justification” by Angel Manuel Rodríguez Romans 4 Ellen White On Salvation, Chapters 4.
It’s unsettling to think that we are born as sinners and basically guilty before God before we perform any actions or are even conscious of our own existence. The fact that “in Adam” we all became sinners even though we never sinned after the manner of Adam makes the idea of Legal Universal Justification appealing. This “objective justification” would seem to “make up” for the “objective condemnation” that we received from Adam. Since Jesus is the Second Adam then this would all seem logical. Except that it doesn’t fit with what the scriptures teach.
I agree with Rodriguez that there are some serious problems with the views of Legal Universal Justification and the “in Christ” motif in Paul’s writings cannot mean that we were in some way mystically present in either Adam or Jesus. Yet, I think that deep in the human heart the idea that we were born sinners without a choice causes us to seek to justify God’s action and make Him seem fair, and Legal Universal Justification would surely seem to do this.
But again, this will leave out human choice since we would be justified even before we had a chance to choose to follow God’s way. In trying to solve one problem we’ll only be creating another problem.
In Romans 4, Paul argues that both Jews and Gentiles are justified by faith because Abraham was counted righteous even before he was circumcised. It’s interesting that James also uses the same example of Abraham to teach the importance of works. (James 2:21-23) If the writings of both James and Paul are considered canonical then we must have a large enough model of salvation to fit in both ideas of righteousness by faith and the importance of works. To take Paul’s views at the exclusion of James (not that Paul didn’t teach the importance of works) you can easily come up with an unbalanced view.
Much like the great reformer Martin Luther did when he referred to James as an “epistle of straw” because James emphasized works. Martin Luther himself went as far as to say that God incites man to sin through the devil that God may apply His grace! Shows how a too small a model can lead to extreme and dangerous views.
Ellen White emphasized Christian perfection but she also understood that she had a long way to go to get there. She herself didn’t claim to be perfect and often mourned her faults. This shows that while we realize the high ideals that God has for us and teach them this doesn’t mean that our personal experience can show this ideal. In fact, the great paradox is that the closer we come to Christ and the more like Him we become the more we would realize how unlike Him we really are. Hence, the more “saved” we are, the more “lost” we’ll feel.
Material Covered: BRI Article: Why Did Jesus Die? How God Saves Us—by George Reid
In this article, Reid attempts to shed light on a number of questions about why Christ had to die for us. His major argument responds to the contentions made by Peter Abelard a few hundred years ago. Abelard suggests that Christ came to earth not to die for the sinner, but to demonstrate the true character of God. Abelard viewed sin not as a violation of God’s law, but as a misunderstanding of God’s affection. As a result, atonement was, “described principally in terms of enlightening us about His purpose.” This sounds like an age old theory that doesn’t hold much water anymore. However, it seems as if these old principles are finding new legs among some of our people. I wonder if we sometimes take a similarly soft view of sin that minimizes our focus on the gravity of sin, and instead teaches us that we need not worry about sin and just need to focus on understanding the true character of God. Most likely, no one would overtly agree with Abelard’s view, yet what is the homiletical influence inferring? Obviously, Abelard was right in suggesting that Christ came as an example for us, yet that is only part of the picture. The Bible also teaches that Christ came to earth to ransom us and die in our place. But this raises an interesting question. Did God have to pay off the devil (with a ransom) to win back humanity? Of course this idea seems completely ridiculous. Instead of even looking at that idea, Reid rightly focuses on the idea that God initiated and executed the plan of salvation. He took energetic and direct action to eliminate the sin problem once and for all. To me, this is the bottom line. Even though I spend all kinds of time studying the ways of God, and trying to learn intricate theology, it refreshes my soul to point out that God is deliberately and passionately pursuing my soul. He has put everything in place to insure that I have every opportunity to connect with me. For this, I am truly greatful.
Articles: “Some problems with Legal Universal Justification,” Romans 4, chapter 4 “Ellen White and Salvation”
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ.” (Rom.3:23, 24) The desperate state to which man has fallen is made plain by the fact that we have all sinned. Through one man Adam we all became inheritors of this destitute and depraved condition. But through one man Christ we can all be justified and restored. The article under consideration makes the potent point that we are justified by grace through the redemption of Christ. The article highlights the objective and subject nature of justification and raises many questions in the mind of the reader. How should we understand the “in Christ motif” in Paul’s writings? How should we really view the objective and subjective justification? These are some issues that I am wrestling with, and praying for God’s wisdom. I believe though that Christ has made us righteous through his sacrifice for our sins, and that settles it for me.
Romans 4 Paul argues in this chapter about Abraham’s justification, which he declares is by faith. He does not indicate or argue against the need to do good works which is apart of the whole salvation plan. He states that Abraham “believed God” and it was counted unto him for righteousness. What was inherent in this belief of Abraham? Did he believe in the sacrifice of Christ by faith? As I reflected upon the passage under consideration I came to the conclusion that that the mere fact that Abraham’s faith was reckoned to him as righteousness does not mean that faith possesses in itself some merit that can earn justification. To me it was Abraham’s attitude, his faith in God that made him righteous. It was his faithful acceptance of the atonement and the righteousness of Christ in place of his own unrighteousness that was credited to him for righteousness. Thank God that we too can be partakers of Christ righteousness.
This astounding fact impacted me more forcefully as I read about James and Ellen White’s compelling testimonies. It was very clear that the Whites saw perfection as growth in grace. While Ellen’s Methodist background impacted on her understanding of perfection, she was very careful on how she presented her views. She earnestly spoke of the need of pressing on by faith to the goal of the high calling in Christ. This early perspective on perfection helped to form a balance between justification and sanctification in her writings.
In order to arrive at a biblical understanding regarding the subject of salvation there must be a comparison of scripture with scripture or spiritual things with spiritual things as the Bible itself suggests. In other words, all the biblical data on this subject must be carefully analyzed and be understood in their context. On the one hand, Paul in Romans emphasizes salvation by faith and not by works. As is shown in Romans 4 he uses the experiences of Abraham and David in the Old Testament to substantiate that a person receives salvation by faith and not by works. On the other hand, James uses the same experience of Abraham in the Old Testament to authenticate that works play a crucial part in the salvation process. We know that scripture is not at variance with scripture but here we have Paul saying that a man receives salvation only by faith while James seems to be saying that a man cannot be saved without works. Is it that Paul is contradiction to James and vice versa? I posit that it is not a matter of contradiction but a matter of understanding where the perspective of the biblical writers lied. One of the first works of a Jew was circumcision and during Paul’s time, the Jews argued that a Gentile had to be circumcised in order to receive salvation. However, Paul seeks to bring clarity to this misunderstanding by highlighting that even before Abraham was circumcised God accepted him; James on the other hand was addressing another form of misunderstanding in the sense that there was great emphasis on faith without the involvement of works. For example, a brother who was hungry went to another brother for help instead of assisting that hungry brother he told him to have faith in God, James point here is that it is not sufficient to tell a person to have faith in God but also to assist this person wherever possible. In reviewing, the two perspectives both are presenting a balance view on salvation. Therefore, Paul was addressing salvation by faith based on where his perspective lied while James on the other hand was addressing the importance of works in the salvation process based on where his perspective lied. What is needed as we explore these doctrines of faith is balance, or a comprehensive model, as Dr. Hanna would put it. Infact this is what Woodrow points out in chapter 5 that Ellen maintained in her writings, “balance between law and grace, God’s justice and mercy”, etc.
Week 4 Submission I am sorry for the late submission but my husband had the flu this weekend. This week I read the article Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10 by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez as well as the required chapters in Romans and EGW on Salvation. The article was really just a repeat of what I read last week. It came to the same conclusions and was fighting against some of the same ideas that where mentioned in the last article so I really don’t have anything to say about it. I did find some really interesting things in Whidden’s book. He outlines the three deception of the Devil. “1. God is arbitrary and unfair to require obedience to His Law, since this law could not be obeyed. 2. Mercy is swallowed up by justice, as humans cannot be forgiven by such a just God.... 3. God’s mercy destroyed justice, with the result that Christ’s death abrogated the Father’s law.” (pg.36) I have noticed that the Devil deals in absolutes. His deceptions are that something has to be either one way or the other. There is no middle ground. I see the same thing happening with the conservative and liberal sides of Adventism. Both think that they are more holy than the other. The Conservatives are saying that they stand for the Truth and Law and yet they often don’t have the love of God. The Liberals have gotten a little lax on the law and truth but claim to love their neighbor more than the Conservatives. When it really comes down to it there is a balance between both sides that both sides miss. If the Devil can keep us fighting and picking sides we will never be able to see what God really wants for us the middle ground. As Dr. Hanna is fond of saying, it is both. As Whidden says, “Satan is seeking to pervert both law and grace by denying one or both as essential to the understanding of God’s character of love.” I would like to know what the class thinks about this. I am finding that the more I know about God the more I know I don’t know.
A Response to Chapter 2 of Woodrow W. Whidden’s Ellen White on Salvation. I enjoyed Whidden’s research into the background of Ellen White’s experience with the subject of salvation. His research revealed several different experiences that shaped Ellen White’s view of salvation.
Growing up in Maine, at 12 years old Ellen White heard William Miller preach series of lectures at the Buxton camp meeting in …about Christ’s second coming. After hearing his appeals for the congregation to prepare their hearts for Christ’s return, Ellen found herself feeling as though she would never be worthy enough to be called a child of God. This was her first spiritual crisis, but she was determined to seek the Lord with all her heart to receive pardon for her “sins”. She earnestly and persistently sought the Lord with all her heart…she longed for the assurance that God had forgiven her sins…she acknowledged her helpless condition…and at that point she felt her burdens lifted from her…a joy…a lightheartedness filled her heart. You know I think we should encourage this same sort of seeking…I’m not so sure that we should gather the idea that Ellen White simply didn’t have a proper understanding of “Righteousness by Faith” at the time.
In addition to this spiritual crisis, she grew up in a time when the Methodist had a revival in their church called the “Holiness” movement. Once a person gave their life to Jesus, they were to continue seeking a deeper conversion…searching their hearts to be surrendered of absolutely everything…through this earnest praying and Bible study, a faithful Methodist would enter into what they called “entire sanctification” or the “second blessing” experience.
Sounds like we should adopt this “second blessing” teaching in our own church! It’s my understanding that every believer or every true follower of Jesus needs to have this sort of “spiritual crisis”…this time of humbling oneself, acknowledging one’s helpless condition, before being filled with the Holy Spirit. You know we might just have revival in the Adventist church, if we as a people approached God in this manner.
Whidden comments that Ellen White’s misunderstanding of Righteousness by Faith at this point in her experience, caused her great distress. I understand what Whidden is saying, but at the same time, I’m not sure if he can pinpoint her struggle to the spiritual climate and/or persuasion of her day. Maybe he’s not trying to…maybe I’m reading that wrong. But I think every follower of Jesus must journey through a “midnight of the soul” experience…a time where they wrestle with God, as did Jacob.
Granted she wrote more about “holiness of heart and life” in her early writings, and then seemed to emphasize sanctification as the work of a lifetime in following years. But I believe Ellen White would have had this same experience today. Jesus tells us in John 16:7, 8 that He will “…send Him (the Helper…the Holy Spirit) to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. So as the Holy Spirit moved on her, she was convicted of her sins, she was convicted of what righteousness was, she was convicted of the judgment.
We all begin with less than an imperfect knowledge of God, whether we are 12 years old or 80…but as we receive the revelation of His character in the life of His Son Jesus, by studying His Word and communing with Him in prayer… we grow to know the Father as a loving and merciful God, willing to save to the uttermost. We move from fear to love…don’t get me wrong… Paul tells us in Philippians 2:12 to “…work out your own salvation with fear and trembling”…so I believe we are to maintain that awe-some reverence for God, but we should constantly be growing in our knowledge of His love. I believe ever Christian has to journey through this experience.
We need “holiness of heart and life” in our church today. True sanctification is a work of a lifetime, but I wonder if the revival we all want, so bad, isn’t waiting our return to focus on Jesus and His desire to give us “holiness of heart and life”.
Wayne Moten Materials read: Christ Saved the Human Race, Ellen White on Salvation, chpt. 3, and Romans 3
In the chapter titled”The Decade Before 1888” Ellen White went through great lengths to share her view justification, and perfection. She, like she did decades before, shot down the holiness fanaticism view on perfectionism. According to the White’s observation this view supported the belief that people was so holy that they were in a position where they could not sin and that they had no need of the Lord’s Prayer. In rebuking one Brother Brown, who was teaching that it was impossible for anyone to keep God’s law and the Ellen White views on salvation was that people can only be saved by the law, she declared that salvation by obedience and without obedience to the law is impossible. She declared that people are only justified by faith in the merits of Christ. She strongly opposed the legal justification which was the belief that since Christ died for all that all will be saved, despite whether someone wants to be saved or not. Sadly, this view or a similar one is being taught by some of our well known and trusted Bible scholars. According to Romans 3, it is not alright for us to break the law simply because we have been justified. It is because we have been justified that we ought to keep the law. The BRI document uses a lot of quotes to explain what Ellen White meant by salvation, justification, and sanctification in Christ’s role of saving the human race. While it is true that Christ died for the entire human race, it is equally true that no one will be saved against his or her direct will and/or disobedience to Christ’s Commandments. Since the human race was estranged from God by Adam’s disobedience, Christ bridged the gap between God and humanity and made God accessible to us by His sinless life, death, burial, and resurrection. It will do every Bible scholar and every believer to continue to do extensive studies on justification, sanctification, and salvation before anyone submit a concrete belief that his or her ideas are correct and state them as facts. It will do well for every Bible student to take Dr. Hanna’s advice and adopt his philosophy about any and every subject, even in making decisions about life and that is to look at the subject wholistically.
The role of works is discussed in Romans 4 and Paul tells us what works are not. He is saying that they don’t earn salvation because then they are counted as debt. It is interesting that Paul says the one who does not work but believes is the one accounted righteous. This seems to go against what Paul says in Romans 2. I think that Paul is fleshing out his understanding of salvation so he has to look at it from different angles. Verse 25 says, “(Jesus) who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.” I never caught that phrase before at the end of the verse. That he was raised for our justification seems to show the importance of the resurrection in the salvation process. Often the cross is what is focused on when people talk about salvation. Yes, Friday is very important, but what about Sunday. I think of the imagery of dying with Christ that Paul uses. He talks about our old lives dying and that we get a new life in Christ. The lack of focus on the resurrection may explain one part of why many churches do not expect much change out of the members of their church.
I appreciate that James White emphasized righteousness by faith in his messages that he gave. I have heard about Ellen White talking about this subject and I have been blessed by this theme through Steps to Christ and the Desire of Ages. But the picture that I have had of James White is that he was a serious man who worked himself to the bone and just focused on doctrine. I am glad that it was pointed out that Ellen White did not have an attitude of spiritual superiority since she wrote about a high Christian standard. I think that it is sad that people often miss the forests for the trees when they miss the theme that runs through Ellen White’s writing is God’s transforming grace. I want to encourage Adventists to use Ellen White in way that lifts up Christ rather than whacking people over the head or getting into meaningless debates.
Romans 4: This chapter was on Abraham’s righteousness apart from works through faith. My question is in verse 15, what does Paul mean when he says, “where there is no law there is no transgression” when in his prior chapters he says that where there is not law their conscience condemns them?
Whidden, Woodrow W. “James and Ellen: Their Personal Testimonies” from: Ellen White on Salvation. Berrien Springs: R&H Catalog Service.
Justification and sanctification were themes of Ellen and James White. James wanted to emphasize Christ more and Ellen “hungered and thirst after righteousness”. She also realized that sanctification was a process and perfection was always out of her reach.
Rodríguez, Ángel Manuel. Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/Adam&Humanity.htm
Rodriquez finds that “there is something indescribably and awfully wrong with us and with the world in which we live and that the Scriptures trace it back to the fall of Adam and Eve into sin”. He finds the consequences to sin to be separation from God, loss of privileges, slavery to sin and death and misery. I wonder though if God made the world why couldn’t he have made it so his justice could be satisfied without a blood sacrifice. If God can do anything, why do it this way?
10/1/07 Articles Read: • “Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal ‘Legal’ Justification” by Larry J. Kane • “Ellen White on Salvation” by Woodrow Whidden, Chapter 5 • Romans 3-5
In this article, Larry Kane sets forth to debunk the doctrine of a universal “legal” justification as set forth by the 1888 Message. This doctrine states that “Christ’s death at the cross accomplished a legal or objective justification which is universally and unconditionally applied to all men.” This legal justification is also known as “corporate” justification and differs from “experiential” justification or justification by faith. The text in question here is Romans 3:23, 24. Dr. E. J. Waggoner, one of the contributors to the 1888 message, in his book “Christ and His Righteousness”, sees Jesus’ sacrifice as extending legal justification for all men, the entire human race. Waggoner sees all men, whether converted or not, with their legal status before God adjusted to reflect Christ’s imputed righteousness. Kane, in this paper, argues that if this were the case, why would John 3:18 and other Biblical passages speak of the individual as not being condemned if he believes. Thus it stands that Christ’s sacrifice is not one which gives unconditional legal justification to everyone, but instead it offers it to everyone. By faith we accept Christ’s legal justification when we are repentant and agree to allow him to change our will and desires. The growth which proceeds from this point forward is done through belief and trust in Jesus. The Bible records that Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. We further understand and evidence this by the obedience of Abraham. So it is with us, our belief in God is evidenced by our obedience and trust and this is credited to us as righteousness. This daily walk of obedience with God is one of sanctifying power; and this sanctification process continues for a lifetime. I agree with Kane that the justification part of this whole process is not an unconditional universal legal justification. It is made available to those who accept it by faith.
Fourth week Refelection Romans 4 Chapter 4 - James and Ellen: Their Compelling Personal Testimonies BRI – “In Adam/in Christ” Motifs
I enjoyed deeply the readings for the week wherein Paul in Romans 4 has emphasized the “RIGHTEOUSNESS OF FAITH” (I am reading from the NSAB) and its implications for those (sinners) who has it, applies it, and put it at work. For example, Abraham believed in the Lord, obeyed Him and his faith was credited for him as righteousness while he was uncircumcised. The promise given him was to be received both by him and his descendants through the “righteousness of faith.” Many times in this chapter (vv. 5, 9, 11, 13, 16) Paul has repeatedly used the phrase “righteousness of faith”, does this mean faith has righteousness in itself? Abraham (v.20) “did not waiver in unbelief but rather GREW STRONG IN FAITH, giving glory to God.” For me, faith is alive and possesses the characteristics of its giver. The possessor in turn submits to it and puts it into action to believe without a doubt, benefits as it receives the righteousness that active faith brings. The credit/debit issue is not for man to declare but to the giver of faith (God) depending on the action/reaction of the receiver/possessor. Reflecting further in my readings, I tried to contemplate on Eph. 2:8-10 stating that salvation brought about by Grace through Faith “is the gift of God.” I just can’t thank God more than giving me a heightening appreciation of his gift of salvation every time I had a chance to study it deeper.
On the other hand, both James and Ellen White had vowed that as long as there’s life in their being they will keep sharing the doctrine of “Justification by faith” and ames had seen it more benefiting for all the people if Ellen would use the pen more heavily that travel and speaking, which turned to be true, that because of her writing until now we could hear her speaking the truth of “justification by faith.” Coupled with this, Ellen confessed that despite of the fact that she has aspired for the highest goals of sanctification in life she never self-declared perfect, due to the presence of short comings, she repeatedly said that she’s not infallible. As a result of here justified life in Jesus, the Spirit has caused her to want herself hidden in Christ, to know the length, the breath, the height and depth of love, be assured that God was working through her, to be filled with the Spirit, has an earnest hunger and thirsting after righteousness, and deep sense of the need of God, His Spirit, and His grace every hour. I love her highest goal in life: Live a “sanctified life without the sense of spiritual superiority”, known by her as “practical righteousness”. She wrote that “faith takes hold of the promise of God that works by love and sanctifies the souls.” So faith justifies and sanctifies. Constantly, she greatly emphasized on God’s great transforming power.
The BRI on the other hand, in the article written by Manuel Rodriguez, the 1888 Committee were shredded into fine pieces out of their stand and understanding of the terms “In Adam and In Christ”. I found myself siding with Dr. Rodriguez who sounded and factually very biblical in his expositions counter to seemingly traditional views of the 1888 committee. The author has concluded that the “imputation theory” is foreign to the Bible due to some misunderstanding or misuse of some Hebrew terms to support their “legal justification theory” which if not being careful the student will be led to Pagan Dualism and great confusion in the end. For him only the believers are the ones rightfully to be called to be in Christ. Those who do not believe, their case remain future until they actually believe or submit themselves to the gift of God. Simple yet profound.
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered. Rom.4:7 If we consider closely the experience of David’s sin in II Sam:11 we are made aware of a plot to cover up. He acknowledges in Ps.32:3 When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long. New American Standard translation explains: When I kept silent about my sin, my body wasted away through my groaning all day long. Sin is defined in I John 3:4 Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law; for sin is the transgression of the law. “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For He that said, Do not commit ADULTERY, said also, Do not KILL. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law. ALL have sinned. The bigger picture is to recognize that while one can obey the LETTER of the law; it is also possible to break the SPIRIT of the law. The effect is the same as sin. Christ provided a bigger picture of the letter of the law, by speaking of its spiritual intent. “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman/man to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart” (Matt. 5:27-28). This speaks of the spiritual nature of the law. “For we know that the law is spiritual…Rom 8:14.. Ellen G. White on Salvation, the Great Controversy Theme, Closing Events,and the Law stated: The very heart of her understanding of God is based on the eternal authority of God's law, which is the revelation of God's character of love(GC 493), but this love is not arbitrary and is full of mercy that is just in its expression. Ellen White's most important comments relating to the close of probation and the time of trouble are found in The Great Controversy: "Those who are living upon the earth when the intercession of Christ shall cease in the sanctuary above are to stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator. Their robes must be spotless,their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling"(425).
comment on Geraldine O'neal assignment. AFTER READING YOU COMMENT I HAVE JUST A QUESTION FOR YOU. WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT THE LETTER OF THE LAW OR THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW?
Materials Read: Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal Legal Justification, Conversion, Sanctification, and Early Ministry, and Romans 2 & 3
After reading the above material, I have come to the conclusion that many of the members of these well known and respected Bible research organizations don’t have and probably never will have all of the answers to certain Bible topics. Therefore, I don’t deem it necessary to repeat a lot of the things the article or the book says. The above article mentions the misunderstanding of Dr. Waggoner’s understanding of Justification by Faith. Further, I believe that many of the terms that these research institutions come up with should be left out of their published materials. A lot of people are sure to miss the message of what’s being said when all of these different terms, which have no meaning are used to support some theoretical or dogmatic view brought on by the research teams. The article brings out the subject of what is meant by the terms “Universal” and/or “Legal” Justification. It seems to me that both of these terms are misleading in trying to understand the subject of Sanctification and Justification in the light of salvation. At the same time, they can both be understood in the light of Jesus Christ. However, my understanding is that no one is justified by his or her own merits. If someone persists in sin with no intentions of making Christ his or her Savior, then how can he or she be justified. If someone decides to keep the law, this within itself does not render a person justified. The biggest problem I believe is misunderstanding what the Bible teaches on the subject, better alone what Paul said about the subject. Many of the things that Paul said about justification and sanctification need to be taken at face value and needs no study or research committee to try to figure out what he meant. However, there are some aspects of the subject that needs to be explored for our coming to logical conclusion by looking at it wholistically.
The development of our doctrines had been a process and matter of time. As I read more and more regarding Justification by faith, I come to understand that this doctrine in particular, brought more conflict than any other doctrine. Thinking on this topic, a question come to me; supposing that, if around the 1888 God have revealed the whole truth about justification by faith to Ellen White before Jones & Waggoner, where be any different? I think that the fact on been a prophet the church could accept the message in a more simple way nevertheless the same questions could arise and create some problems. When Ellen White supported Jones & Waggoner her reputation as prophet was questioned, so I come to one conclusion, even when the church had a prophet God used other minister to bring light and clarify his truth.
Concerning to the paper written by Dr. Angel Manuel Rodriguez entitled: “Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E.G. White”, I found it very interested. I agree that the falling of our first fathers was a huge disaster that affected no only to them but its consequence is still affecting us. One aspect that I found interested is that after the fall of Adam, God came to offer him the salvation plan through Jesus Christ. Talking about this offer and the rule of Adam in accept it, E.G. White comment: “Then it was that the great love of God was expressed to us in one gift, that of His dear Son. If our parents had not accepted the gift, the race would today be in hopeless misery…” This is very important because it shows that God respect human beings’ s free will. There was a change that our parents could not accept it and as a consequence the death and hopeless misery. Thanks God they do accepted it. And it’s only through the sacrificial death of Christ as our substitute that there is hope for us today. “Because man fallen could not overcome Satan with his human strength, Christ came from the royal courts of heaven to help him with His human and divine strength combined. He obtains for the fallen sons and daughters of Adam that strength which it is impossible for them to gain for themselves…”
I love the encouraging promises in Romans 5:6,8. It is amazing to think that Christ died for us even while we are sinning against him. That is a humbling thought when we take time to think about it. In verse 10 it is saying that God reconciled us to him while we were still enemies with Him. That seems to go along with the 1888 idea of objective justification of all men. Also verse 18 where it says that “even so through on Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life” looks like it supports that teaching too. Verse 17 shows the subjective side of justification where it says that “those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. Here it is pointing out that God’s grace must be received. It seems that the verses remind me of Dr. Hanna calling us to have a bigger model of salvation to fit all the pieces.
The BRI document “Comments on the ‘In Adam/In Christ’ Motifs’” seemed to be a big deal over semantics in parts of it. I was surprised to see pointed out in it that when saying that a person was in Adam that what it is actually saying is that the person was realistically in Adam because God had breathed the breath of life into Adam. I thought that it might be twisting the words of the 1888 committee to say that they are saying this dualistic teaching. I agree with the BRI that it is the result of Adam’s sin that passed down to the descendants of Adam. I wondered if both sides were saying similar things in different ways and arguing over the meaning of the words. I am encouraged that God gives us the promise in Romans 5 that where sin abounded, grace abounded much more! It would be nice to see more attention on this when people look at this controversial topic. This tells me that the power of grace in our lives is more powerful than the power of sin and we have the choice to receive that grace each day. Let us take time to choose.
“Comments on the In Adam/In Christ Motifs” Angel Manuel Rodriguez
“The idea that every human being was in Adam when he sinned is confusing and may lead to serious theological problems. In what sense was everybody in Adam? Obviously not in a physical sense because Adam was one single body. Once we rule out that possibility there are not many other options left. Our presence in Adam has, then, to be defined by the 1888 Study Committee as trans-physical. But in what sense was it trans-physical? They do not provide an answer to that question.” This quote was the basic summary of the “In Adam” motif talked about. Furthermore, Rodriguez went on to deconstruct arguments for “in Christ” motifs having theological significance for people dying “in Christ.” This article is basically a response to the 1888 Study Committee and is another minute detail in the huge topic of salvation.
Chapter 6 on Ellen White on Salvation
“For Ellen White, depravity does not debase us to the point that God has to determine everything for us. She was not a Calvinist! She held that God never forces the will. But the effects of sin are so pervasive that we need God’s convicting, calling, converting, justifying, and empowering grace at every advancing step in our experience of salvation.”
In this chapter, the author makes it clear that Ellen White does not have a Calvinistic view of predestination. Nor does she have a “historical Adventist” view on perfectionism. Rather, she has a quite balanced view on the freedom God gives, and ultimately, God’s grace—the necessary ingredient for salvation.
Romans 5
“The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” What an amazing promise Paul gives us. So often theologians get hung up on “In Adam/In Christ,” without putting proper emphasis on where it is due in this passage—eternal life coming through the grace of Jesus Christ.
Salvation Submission Week 5 Greetings all, I had an interesting week reading the article. I read “Comments on the ‘in Adam/in Christ’ Motifs” by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez. He had some great theological points but there were some things that I picked up on in this article that I didn’t like so much. I have not read any of the 1888 study committee stuff but I found the slight antagonism that was in the article to be a little disturbing. He basically says that 1888 committee has not be clear on what in Adam and in Christ means, but then goes on to basically condemn them on the things that they might mean because those things are not Biblical. Well I am sorry but if you don’t know for sure what they mean then until you do give them the benefit of the doubt. I happen to agree that we don’t become guilty because Adam sinned but because we sinned. I do believe that because we are descendents of Adam that we have inherited a human nature that sins from it very youngest years. In some way we were cursed through Adam and restored through Christ. I am not sure where the 1888 study committee stands but in that light we were all in Adam at the fall and in Christ at his death. Through their lives we have been affected in ways that I don’t really think that any of us understand. Now let me make my position clear. I do not believe that we were in some way guilty because of Adam’s sin and made righteous because of Christ’s life. I believe that we were cursed through Adam’s sin and that through Christ living in us we are able to be made more and more like Him (restored). This is where I am on this issue. I think that the author wants so bad to refute the ideas that might be in Adam and in Christ that he has almost gone to the point of completely explaining away the texts that talk about it. This is one thing that scares me in the Adventist church. Too often we react so violently against one extreme that we fall into the opposite and just as wrong extreme.
Materials Read: Romans Chapters 4, 5, & 6 Ellen White on Salvation, chapters 4 & 5 BRI Document: Comments on I Timothy 4:10
The ideas of the reading were: Justification, Perfection, and Salvation. There were some strong relations to the understanding of the material. In a sense, no one will receive salvation if he/she hasn’t been justified nor if he/she hasn’t received Christ’s perfection. The BRI document focus was on the interpretation and/or misunderstanding of I Tim. 4:10. This document addressed the misunderstanding of being saved and specially saved. The document brought out the point that this is highly misleading, which I agree with, because nowhere in the Bible will you read that some people are more saved than others. The belief that all people are saved or will be saved is a universalistic view brought on by those who refuse to accept that there are some people who are going to be eternally lost or brought on by those who refuse to read and study the Scriptures for themselves. It seems that the person who preached this text did not do an extensive study on the subject and gave his/her personal opinion about the text. So, is the text saying that since Christ died all will be saved but only those who do not reject that salvation will actually be saved? If this is true, then what will those who reject salvation are saved to or from? I agree with the article in that when the text says that Christ is the Savior of all men that it means He is the Savior of all sorts of people. However, at the same time, I believe that the text is also universal applicable. In other words, it has some universalism ideas about it. Yes, I believe that all will be saved. However, my idea continue with “all will be saved who wants to be saved” because the person will willingly submit his/her life to Christ and follow the divine plan that He has for his/her life
Articles Read: “Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10” by Angel Manuel Rodríguez Romans 5 Ellen White On Salvation, Chapter 5.
I could still recall as a school boy struggling with the idea that I was born into a world as a sinner without a choice in the matter of my birth and would be condemned to hell if I didn’t make a choice to follow God. I was baptized at the tender age of 11 but that question was still bothersome to me. (We indeed walk by faith and not by sight. If we waited until all our questions were answered before we chose to follow Jesus we’ll never start!)
Romans 5 came as a relief to me. Now I understood from Paul that the second, spiritual birth was like the physical birth except this time I had a choice in the matter. We come into this world as sinners without doing anything to “deserve” being born and we can be “born again” without doing anything to deserve sonship in God’s family.
This for me is the liberating message of Romans 5. Christ, the Second Adam gave humanity a second chance at the cross.
Romans 5: 20 states: “For as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners so also through the obedience of the one man many will be made righteous.” If “many” will be made righteous and not “all”, this would definitely throw out universalism. Grace would indeed “reign” but only for willing subjects.
As per Rodríguez article, 1 Timothy 4:10 is a difficult passage as it seems support a universal objective salvation. The last part of the text says, “Because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." Rodríguez argues that the expression “Savior of all men” must indicate that salvation is available to all men and not that God will eventually save all men. Also, the only One through whom anyone can be saved is Jesus and in this sense He is the Savior of all.
The scriptures are just too clear on the judgment and the final rewarded of the wicked versus the righteous to entertain the doctrine that all humanity will finally be saved. Even if there are some difficult passages the preponderance of the scriptural evidence just silences that view.
As per Whidden, understanding Ellen White’s comments against the backdrop of the great controversy theme is very important. When we read Paul’s letters we are in effect just listening to one side of a conversation. When we read the Bible and Ellen White it’s always helpful to understand the background issues around which the prophets write. An emphasis on a certain subject may not indicate priority but present importance.
For example, if seminary students are not doing well in Greek, then there may be many tutors offering help in this subject. An outsider seeing so many tutorials offered for Greek may think that the seminary is placing a higher priority on Greek than say, homiletics. But this may simply mean that Greek is a tough language to learn.
The emphasis of Ellen White on a particular doctrine or teaching can be simply a response to another extreme view and not necessarily an elevation of that teaching over other teachings. Many statements she made about justification in response to an extreme legalistic emphasis but not against the importance of sanctification. Knowing the contextual background helps us to place ALL her teachings in balance.
Commenting on: • BRI Doc: Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, “Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs” • Romans 4, Class notes • Whidden; Chapter 4, James and Ellen: Their Compelling Personal Testimonies
It was credited to Him…
There are so many ways to be confused about Salvation. (Gee… thanks Dr. Hanna). Of course, Dr. Hanna is careful to note that salvation is not credited to us upon our full understanding or model of salvation. Believe on the name, and you shall be saved. I accept that – and I believe that – but what does that statement mean in the scope of what all of the Bible has to say about salvation.
To think that justification was credited to a person, in this case that would be Abraham, makes for great questions (or confusion – depending on how you want to look at it). I mean, if Abraham was credited righteousness, then Abraham would seem to have possession of it. Possession of “righteousness,” that is. And so if he had it, maybe he can share it to others or lose it like someone loses their wallet on a NY train ride.
Paul speaks much Abraham being the Father “not only to those who are of the law but also to those that have faith like Abraham and so he is the father of us all.” And… what if Abraham shared it and subsequently lost it? Did he lose the righteousness, that “something” which he had possession of? And is he eligible for a replacement if he finds his copy of the “loss insurance” policy he received when he became the “proud” owner of righteousness?
But first… let’s consider a couple of terms from our trusty BRI document (which is not the official voice, just sponsored) Rodriquez does a great job in explaining the nebulous definitions of 1888’s use of “In Adam.” Basically “they” (the 1888 study committee and others) say that “in Adam” refers to the idea that because Adam sinned, we all sinned. Either because the “life” that placed in him from God was inclusive of all future generations. And so his sin in his “life” makes it sin in our “lives” as well.
The second term for consideration is “in Christ.” If we are to escape the result of our Adamized sin, we need to be “in Christ,” Because if we are “in Christ” we can be saved because of the righteousness that was in Christ. But of course… Christ never loses his righteousness.
Could we be “in Abraham” because of his role as our father? Could our Abraham-like righteousness gaining faith save us? Could “in-Abraham-ness” righteousness be lost?
My suspicion is that the answer is no… it can’t be lost because it was never a possession. I think that the credited righteousness was never “in Abraham” nor “of Abraham” to begin with. It was always the righteousness of/in Christ. We really can’t even have faith of being “in-Christ” for salvation. For if we were in-Christ, then when Christ died we were in Him and therefore we died on the cross with him. What’s wrong with that? Well… that would mean that Christ did not die for me but “we” (Christ and me “in-Christ) died for me. Notice the hint of my possessing righteousness?
No… I don’t think that we have any righteousness. We have only the mystery of faith. The belief that God became one among me and died for me such that I could have “righteousness.” Not having it as in possession but having it by faith and believing that it saves me somehow.
How Perfect is Perfect- Is Christian Perfection Possible
We are reminded that for the Christian, the most important thing in this life is to be in a right relationship with God. But how is this to be achieved? Paul tells us plainly in Philippians that our righteousness is “as filthy rags”. As Christians we find that even after many years of sincerely following Christ we still find ourselves practicing behaviors over which we though we had gotten the victory. This can be a discouraging prospect and many have discontinued their walk with Christ for this very reason. The biblical record is replete with men and women of faith who kept falling but because they were serious about their Christian walk would get up and continue their walk with Christ. Since Jesus asks us to be perfect as our father in heaven is perfect- we are still seeking to find out just what this perfection means. Heppenstall reminds us that according to the scripture Abraham, Noah, and Job were declared pert yet they were not sinless. Paul repeats it over and over again; that even though he knows the right, and wants to do the right and is sincere about it he still finds himself doing what is wrong. And so he, Paul, continues to remind us that our righteousness is in Christ. Jesus Himself reminded us that we should abide in Him and He would abide in us. We must be careful to remember that even when our heart is regenerated and our life is transformed we cannot be perfect enough to obtain salvation. I must agree Edward Heppenstall that it is only us we remain covered by the perfect life of Christ that we will be saved.
Reflection by: Eric Ollila Week of: October 1-6, 2007
Ellen White On Salvation Woodrow W. Whidden II
Chapter 4—James and Ellen: Their Compelling Personal Testimonies
This chapter had some uplifting things in it that spoke to my heart. The first of which was a reminder that both James and Ellen were human. I found it encouraging to be reminded that other great men and women of faith had to battle the enemy every day, just as I have to do. They pressed on through trials and they gained precious victories through Jesus Christ. They did not have to remain where they were at, they were constantly being challenged and renewed by the transforming grace of Christ.
The experiences of Ellen White writing penitential letters, expressing personal information regarding the practical out workings of the Christian faith in her life reminded me that the closer we get to Jesus, the more keenly we become aware of our short comings. This makes us humble and it makes us realize our need of Christ even more.
The chapter showed a journey that the White’s were on together and personally, one on one with the Lord. The promises of God are key elements to righteousness by faith. They are like anchors to the soul that can grasp them with the hand of faith.
How does this tie into class? Obviously we have been discussing righteousness by faith and have been skimming the surface as to what it means and how justification, sanctification, and glorification relate to each other.
Chapter 4 simply shows a practical experience of what the Whites went through personally while walking in these truths. Keep looking to Jesus, trust is transforming grace, and don’t look back is what I take from it.
Reflection by: Eric Ollila Week of: September 24-30
Ellen White On Salvation Chapter 5: Salvation, the Great Controversy Theme, Closing Events, and the Law
This chapter outlines the idea that Ellen White emphasized the Great Controversy Theme as the backdrop for her theology. The Great Controversy Theme encompasses all of the history past, present, and future for a context in which the great sin problem and salvation have been set in.
This theme helps us see God in the beginning, before all things, from eternity all the way down through the creation of Lucifer and angels to the fall of Lucifer, during the fall of Lucifer, after the fall of Lucifer, the creation of man, the fall of man, the redemption of man, the pre-advent judgment, the second coming, the millennium, the great white throne judgment, the total eradication of sin and the devil, the new heavens and the new earth, and eternity with God and the redeemed.
This theme also helped place all of her teachings into a perspective which gave tremendous practicability for the here and now. It was a world view, yea cosmic view that allowed a clear articulation of theological truth that was pure and harmonious from start to finish.
One of the things that stands out in this chapter that ties in with class is the line “…Ellen White conceived of the law as being inextricably bound up with the expression of God’s character of love—a love that was conceived as both just and merciful.” (pg 38).
The Law of God is a written expression of who God is. You cannot separate the Law from God’s character or God’s character from the Law. Be careful not to twist that previous sentence into something it is not. I am not saying that the Law is God, or that God is the Law. No, the law is not God and God is not the law. The Law is simply a written expression of who God is. But, the point is just that—it expresses who God is. Therefore one cannot separate the Law from God’s character because God in a very real way is the Law in life form. God’s righteousness is witnessed by the Law and the prophets precisely because He is the perfect embodiment of the Law, the Law in living form. So in one sense the law is separate from God in that it is simply letters on stone. But in another sense, the Law is not separate from God because those letters on stone describe who God is and who God is is not separate from Himself. It’s who He is.
Thus this ties in with our class in that we are talking about Salvation. The purpose of Salvation is that God wants to save us and to restore us back into His moral image. Thus, if we are to be restored into His moral image, that necessarily means we must have characters like His. In order to have characters like God’s character, then our characters must be harmonious with the Law, because the Law is a description of His character.
Thus, the whole tenor of Scripture and the writings of Ellen White tell us What, Why, and How God takes sinners and gives them His character. It tells the process and the means of Grace by which He imparts His very own power to resist sin and to expel it from the soul.
Response by: Eric Ollila Saturday, October 06, 2007
Response to: Daniel Ocampo Fourth Week Reflection
I too like the idea of “living a sanctified life without a sense of spiritual superiority.” This is an earnest passion I have, to live like this. This too has a balance to it. Sometimes the people of this world interpret any sort of display of Christianity as showing “spiritual superiority.” In other words, some people are just turned off if you even mention that you are a Sabbath keeper, or you don’t do certain activities because of your faith etc. They interpret that because you don’t do certain things they do, that you are looking down upon them.
But in reality, you may not be looking down on them at all. Today at church I heard a sermon dealing with “boasting in the Lord.” It was talking about the fact that we should not be proud, we need to be humble, but at the same time we should not be afraid to declare the benefits of serving the Lord. There are clear benefits to serving the Lord and living His lifestyle that are clearly superior to the ways of the world. It is therefore not “pride” that “boasts in the Lord” because of these things.
Anyhow, I agree with your comment and wanted to share these added thoughts on it.
Biblical Research Institute Doc: Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, “Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs” • Romans 5, • Whidden; Chapter 4, James and Ellen: Their Compelling Personal Testimonies All my life looking on the issue of salvation, I thou I am happy to learn that both Ellen and her husband James encountered the similar struggles regarding the subject of justification, sanctification and glorification. The question of what is perfection keeps recurring. The Apostle Paul reasons that our faith in Jesus justifies us and gives us peace in our relationship with the father. Christ has willingly sacrificed himself for all of humanity so that we might live forever. Does Christ require us to do anything in order to accept his gift of salvation or it’s a done deal? If he does require us to do anything how much is enough to satisfy his sacrifice? If it’s a done deal does it mean we are saved forever from the day we accept his offer? When we accept his salvation does that make us perfect in his eyes? In the first Adam we went astray or in fact he went astray and we are suffering for the choices he made. In him we lost our right as heirs and we were destined to die until the second Adam came and died in our behalf, so that we can have another opportunity to live ‘perfect’ lives. In this chapter the Apostle seems to emphasize that there is some security for the future (v.9) if we abide in Christ. However in v.10 it is interesting to note that we were justified before we knew Christ, hence it does not appear that his sacrifice is contingent on our actions. It stands to reason therefore that if we became sinners before we sinned, we may have become ‘saints’ before we knew Christ. Verses 12-18 of the Chapter clearly states that as a result of one many sin came to all, and thus death. It is stands to reason that as a result of Christ’s death on Calvary we were all made clean. Therefore, the only requirement from God might be to believe.
Man, was I blessed by reading this article. I enjoyed this one more than any other reading I have done thus far for this class. This is likely because of the my background/luggage on the topic of perfection. I really like the concrete examples he used of 'perfect men' of the Bible like Noah, Abraham, Job... who still needed forgiveness and reliance on Jesus. "A 'perfect' Christian is one whoes heart and mind are permanently committed to Christ..." (p. 2) Also his comment on genuine Christianity is going to stick for a long time: "To be a genuine Christian means faith IN Christ, fellowship WITH Christ, faithfulness TO Christ, fruitfulness FOR Christ." (p. 2, emphasis mine) Heppenstall covered the 'cheap grace' reaction/opposite problem to perfection by clearly calling for Christian 'victory over all known sin.' However, this 'does not mean sinlessness.' This became a pretty fine line to follow, but I think he presented a Biblical ideal to strive for, allowing us the same grace that great men of the Bible were allowed. His explanation of victory over sin vs. still having a 'sinful nature' was also very helpful and practical in my eyes. To be honest, I didn't find anything I disagreed with in this article. I thought it was solid, Biblical and true to life. Tell me what you think.
Romans 5: This chapter tells us that we peace and joy since we have been justified by faith through Jesus Christ. This chapter also deals with the origin of sin with Adam and the end of Sin with Christ.
Whidden, Woodrow W. “Chapter Five: Salvation, the Great Controversy Theme, Closing Events and the Law,” from: Ellen White on Salvation. Berrien Springs: R&H Catalog Service.
This chapter discusses the other major doctrines that have had an impact on Ellen White’s view of salvation. These other doctrines include the great controversy theme, closing events, law, sin, the atonement and the nature of Christ. These doctrines show the balance between the law and the work of Jesus as well as justice and mercy. Personally I find that law, sin and atonement effect my view of salvation the most.
Kane, Larry J., Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification. http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/Universal%20Justification.htm
This essay by Kane discusses legal justification in the context of the 1888 Message Study Committee. It deals mainly with the texts Romans 3:23-24, Romans 5:12-18 and Romans 8 used to establish legal justification. The main problem in using these texts in this way is that this interpretation violates hermeneutical principles such as reading in context and understanding what the author meant to say. I find that we want for everyone to be saved and feel as though God’s goodness and mercy is questioned when some end up in hell. Personally I want every one to be saved but I don’t find that teaching in the Scriptures.
Dale Baker “Sin, the Human Condition and Salvation” BRI: In Christ in Adam Motif
Salvation and the topic about it, have always sparked much discussion. Many debates now exist about it. But what if one was supposed to hold to a view that the Calvinist hold to, which believes that sinners are so deranged and deprived by sin that they can not even respond to God’s redemptive initiative. Thus God redeems whoever He wills. This would mean then that we could just live as we please because we would not know whether or not we will ever be saved, unless it is by works.
We see in scripture that when Adam sinned he caused his prosperity to inherit the propensity to disobedience. Ellen White has stated that sinners will retain their sinful nature until glorification, and that with the sanctification process there will never come a time when we will become meritorious. She also made it clear that character perfection is different from nature perfection. Thus it is impossible for us to have perfect nature here but it is possible to have a perfect character or a close to perfect character. Consequently, God gives all of us choice, whether we want to choose Him or not, that’s up to us. Therefore salvation and the acceptance of the grace of God are dependent upon us. Furthermore, God will never force His will on us.
I am happy to know that salvation and for us to be saved is not based on how much we know about salvation, but its all about the grace of God, as Romans 5:20 says that where sin abound grace much more abound. Thank God for His grace.
Debbedo Brown “Sin, the Human Condition and Salvation” Romans 5
I agree with Woodrow that the original sin caused by our first parents did not result in total depravity of the human race. If this was the case then some people would be predestined to be saved and some to be lost a popular belief among Calvinists as is pointed out by the author. There is absolutely no doubt that man’s nature has been severely marred by sin nevertheless, he still retain that free will to accept or reject the salvation provided by God in Jesus. It cannot be negated that man would have never responded to God if God did not take the initiative to seek after him. Additionally, it is also true that man in, of himself could not have reached out, and accepted the gift of salvation that God offers, because he became a slave to sin and did not have strength to seek after God. Therefore, even the free will given to man is encouraged and empowered by a loving to accept Him, says the Scripture, “Today I invoke heaven and earth as a witness against you that I have set life and death, blessing and curse, before you. Therefore, choose life so that you and your descendants may live!” (Deut. 30:19). Also, Philippians 2:13 say it is God who gives us the “desire and will to reach out to Him.” This divine encouragement is not limited to only some people but has been offered to all because “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance, (2 Peter 3:9). Another thing that is clear based on my reading throughout this weak is that it is all about Jesus. Even though the Holy Spirit is working on our character and making us instruments of good works, this cannot merit us salvation, because our good works pass through the corrupt channels of humanity and ii somewhat still affected by sin. The only way they can be accepted by God is if Jesus Blood purifies them.
Desmond C. Haye Articles: Whidden chapter 5; Romans 5; Angel Rodriquez “In Adam/In Christ. Angel Rodriquez’s article “In Adam/In Christ” brings to the fore an issue that is pertinent and relevant to our understanding of this misunderstood subject. The clarity he forwarded on the subject was quite helpful. As I examined the article, I came to the conclusion that we truly need a broader understanding of salvation. It is true that a misunderstanding of the phrases “in Adam/in Christ” has created some serious theological problems for the 1888 committee, and not only them but the church on a whole. This issue is very important for if we misunderstand the sin and salvation issue we have missed it all. For if we believe the fallacy that we are responsible for Adam’s sin because his sin is my sin then we truly have a false notion of what the scripture means by “in Adam.”
This article ties in quite nicely with Paul’s account in Romans chapter 5. The apostle here showed that in Adam all died, and in Christ all is made alive. This suggest to me that death and sin as a principle and power, proceeded from Adam to the whole human race, so righteousness and life, as a counteracting and conquering principle and power, proceed from Christ to all mankind. And as death has been passed on to all men who participate in Adam’s sin, so life is passed on to all those who participate in the righteousness of Christ. Thankfully, this article has helped me to see a fresh perspective on this serious debate.
Another interesting article was Whidden’s treatment of “Salvation, the Great Controversy theme, Closing events and the Law.” In this chapter Whidden helped us to understand more clearly that in order to understand Ellen White’s perspective on salvation; we must take a look on other important subjects that have significant bearing on her concept of salvation. In her writings she has demonstrated that there should be a balance between law and grace, faith and works, justice and mercy as she examines the great doctrine of salvation. This is very important to note as it will aid as we seek to build a bigger model of how we understand salvation.
Christ Saved the Human Race Ángel Manuel Rodríguez
Another week, another BRI article fighting 1888 views, most notably Jack Sequiera's views of Salvation as taught in the Bible. I've eaten lunch with both Angel Rodriguez and Jack Sequiera on separate occasions. So my response to this article includes some personal interaction with both of these fellas.
From what I understand, Sequiera and Rodriguez are completely opposed to each other in several different issues, but the major one is the deals with the "Nature of Christ". Sequeira believes that Jesus took man's sinful flesh upon Himself...Rodriguez believes that Jesus did not. While I've never heard Rodriguez present the gospel, I have heard Sequeira present the gospel...and there's no doubt in my mind...my heart was warmed with the message that God loves me so much. Sequeira model of salvation focuses on GOD'S WORK for us, instead of OUR WORK in responding to the gospel. If Sequeira's teaching universalism, then I don't agree with him, but I simply did not hear that in his presentation. Maybe there's other motivator's to this division between BRI and 1888. I do agree with Angel Rodriguez central assertion in this article, THE SINNER MUST RESPOND TO THE GOSPEL. But again, I've heard Sequiera preach and he is basically saying the same thing, only he's emphasizing the "work" Jesus has done for us already at Calvary...and not the "work" we must do in responding to His sacrifice for us. I can read Sequiera's version of the gospel and agree with him, but then I'll read this article by Angel Rodriguez and I'll find myself agreeing with him. I believe we need to teach obedience, but I think 80% of the message needs to be what God has done for us...and 20% our response to His love.
I think in order to find out the difference between these guys two different models of salvation, you must look at their Christological views. Their most obvious point of contention is their two different beliefs in the "nature of Christ." The whole question being...did Jesus take upon Himself man's fallen nature at His incarnation? Or did He take man's perfect nature before Adam sinned?
The Bible spends more time telling the reader of Jesus humbling Himself...how He came DOWN from heaven, how He TOOK SIN upon Himself, how HE BECAME SIN itself on the cross, how HE WAS CRUCIFIED, how HE DIED on the cross, how He stooped down and WASHED HIS DISCIPLE'S FEET (man's lowest point). But Rodriguez doesn't believe that Jesus took the fallen nature on Himself. If you plug these two different Christological theological perspectives into two similar Soterioligical models, you'd end up with two vastly different models. Rodriguez's model would be righteousness or salvation by faith and works... Sequeira's would be righteousness or salvation by faith alone. I believe that the Christological issue is the real source of this division. I agree with Rodriguez in most everything he says in this article...WE MUST RESPOND TO THE GOSPEL OF JESUS by RECEIVING IT...we must receive the gift of salvation by faith...I'd like to read or hear him speak of his model of salvation from another angle other than picking apart another man's model.
10-10-07 Reading materials: 1. Romans 3. 2. Christ Saved the Human Race. Ángel Manuel Rodríguez 3. Chapter three, The Decade before 1888.
It is so frustrated to me read those articles on salvation in the Biblical Research Institute website and then come to our class. It seems to me that the BRI said that the objective work of salvation made on the cross was just a paid that God made in order to give us a legal option to be save. But, when I come to class I hear that the 1888 Message Study Committee ("1888 MSC") has a valid point to emphasizes that the objective works of Christ on the cross was more than a legal paid but as a complete act of all human salvation. In other words, I feel trapped in a huge tornado debate. In our class it seems to suggest that it is ok to open the door to 1888 MSC but in our reading seems to close it.
I know that one possible answer to my dilemma is to make a personal research- exegesis on those texts. But, let me tell you, Do you think is ease to accomplish it? Do we have to make an exegesis on every single passage that our professor gives us in class? Or, do we have to believe by faith that those texts are accurate with the entire bible context?
ELLEN WHITE ON SALVATION WOODROW WHIDDEN II THE NATURE OF CHIRST AND SALVATION COMENTS ON CHAPTER 8:
Cuando traemos el tema de la naturaleza de Cristo no nos podemos escape de preguntas muy complicadas, en las cuales muchos dan diferentes opinions trayendo asi mas complicaciones. En el capitulo 8 del libro se encuantran respuestas simples sobre la naturaleza de Cristo, no obstante debo reconocer que el asunto es un misterio. Reading este capitulo encontre una cita from Ellen White que el autor hace referencia y la quiero mencionar aqui tanbiem “Christ reaches us where we are. He took our nature and overcame, that we through taking His nature might overcome. Made in the likeness of sinful flesh, He lived a sinless life” (DA 311, 312). Sometimes we get to complicate cuando la major noticia es que todo ese misterio de la encarnacion fue hecho en favor de la raza humana para que esta pudiera ser salva del pecado. Two naturaleza mixta es no possible de explicar, sin embargo Jesus poseia ambas, here is another quote found in the book: “Crhist could have done nothing during His earthly ministry in saving the fallen man if the divine had not been blended with the human” I just like to accept what God had done for me, haciendo lo imposible possible por darme la salvation.
Salvation was for human race not only for Jews, God give the Jews the privilege to spread out the message of salvation to the entire world but they kept it for themselves. In God mind was not different everyone need salvation before His eye Jews and gentile, that is why, when Jesus came He meet every kind of people He did not reject anybody. An example of this is Cornelius he was gentile but God send an angels to his house to tell him that his prayer were heard in heaven, it is truth that God choose Israel and give them a mission that they misunderstood, but salvation was made for all.
ELLEN WHITE ON SALVATION WOODROW WHIDDEN II THE NATURE OF CHIRST AND SALVATION COMENTS ON CHAPTER 8: When we bring the subject of the nature of Christ we can’t escape of very complicated questions, in which many give different opinions thus bringing but complications. In chapter 8 of the book I found simple answers on the nature of Christ, I must recognize that the subject is a mystery. Reading this chapter I found a quote from Ellen White who the author makes reference and I want it to mention too here “Christ reaches us where we are. He took our nature and overcame, that we through taking His nature might overcome. Made in the likeness of sinful flesh, He lived a sinless life” (DA 311, 312). Sometimes we get to complicate when the major news is that all that mystery of the incarnation was done in favor of the human race so that this could be save from sin. Two mixed nature is impossible to explain, nevertheless Jesus possess both, here is to another quote found in the book: “Christ could have done nothing during His earthly ministry in saving the fallen man, if the divine had not been blended with the human” I just like to accept what God had done for me, making the impossible possible to give me salvation.
The development of our doctrines had been a process and matter of time. As I read more and more regarding Justification by faith, I come to understand that this doctrine in particular, brought more conflict than any other doctrine. Thinking on this topic, a question come to me; supposing that, if around the 1888 God have revealed the whole truth about justification by faith to Ellen White before Jones & Waggoner, where be any different? I think that the fact on been a prophet the church could accept the message in a more simple way nevertheless the same questions could arise and create some problems. When Ellen White supported Jones & Waggoner her reputation as prophet was questioned, so I come to one conclusion, even when the church had a prophet God used other minister to bring light and clarify his truth.
The Dynamics of Salvation from the biblical research institute.
This is a very interesting article with six section regarding salvation plan. Part 1: Talk about human condition, how is the status of man before salvation: before salvation man need to recognize his condition, that he can’t do anything to restore himself to God or improve the human nature. The salvation is up to God, only trough His merciful grace human race can be saved. a- We stand condemned before God: man had rebelled against God b- We are alienated from our true selves c- We are alienated from one another d- We are alienated from the created world Part 2: The divine initiative: we are lost, full of anxiety and loneliness, and we are unable to help ourselves. God is who reach the man in his lost condition, is God who’s first call Adam looking for him. Part 3: The human respond to grace: God provide salvation for the world, but not all will respond to obey Him, God does not force anybody, not even for our best good. The human respond to grace centers in faith… there is not merit in faith itself, faith is not our savior but only by faith we obtain Christ merits to be save. Part 4: The new status in Christ: a- Justification: God acceptance of the human race, He imparts His justice trough Christ b- Reconciliation: God acted to restore the relationship with the human race c- Forgiveness: God freely cancel our debt though Christ d- Adoption: He welcomes us into his home and give us the right and privileges, we receive the full status of his sons and daughters e- Sanctification: we need to reach out to God day by day in loving trust, turning from pride in ourselves and relying entirely upon Him. Part 5: New life in Christ: a- New born: we’re regenerated by the Holy Spirit b- Restoration: of the mental, physical, spiritual person c- Growth: spiritual growth reflected in our word and actions Part 6: The consummation: it is God initiative in His saving activity.
The Dynamics of Salvation (from the biblical research intitute)
This is a very interesting article with six section regarding salvation plan. Part 1: Talk about human condition, how is the status of man before salvation: before salvation man need to recognize his condition, that he can’t do anything to restore himself to God or improve the human nature. The salvation is up to God, only trough His merciful grace human race can be saved. a- We stand condemned before God: man had rebelled against God b- We are alienated from our true selves c- We are alienated from one another d- We are alienated from the created world Part 2: The divine initiative: we are lost, full of anxiety and loneliness, and we are unable to help ourselves. God is who reach the man in his lost condition, is God who’s first call Adam looking for him. Part 3: The human respond to grace: God provide salvation for the world, but not all will respond to obey Him, God does not force anybody, not even for our best good. The human respond to grace centers in faith… there is not merit in faith itself, faith is not our savior but only by faith we obtain Christ merits to be save. Part 4: The new status in Christ: a- Justification: God acceptance of the human race, He imparts His justice trough Christ b- Reconciliation: God acted to restore the relationship with the human race c- Forgiveness: God freely cancel our debt though Christ d- Adoption: He welcomes us into his home and give us the right and privileges, we receive the full status of his sons and daughters e- Sanctification: we need to reach out to God day by day in loving trust, turning from pride in ourselves and relying entirely upon Him. Part 5: New life in Christ: a- New born: we’re regenerated by the Holy Spirit b- Restoration: of the mental, physical, spiritual person c- Growth: spiritual growth reflected in our word and actions Part 6: The consummation: it is God initiative in His saving activity.
Reflection Paper V "The Continuance of the Prophetic Gift" As we have already noted, the NT does set forth a doctrine of "spiritual gifts," or charismata, "gifts of grace" (1 Cor 12; Eph 4). These endowments by the Holy Spirit upon individual members of the church are to "equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ" (Eph 4:12, RSV). "As each has received a gift," he is to employ it in the service of the church and thus assist in forwarding its work in the earth (1 Pet 4:10, 11, RSV; cf. Rom 12:6, 7). Since the gifts are to be continuously bestowed as the Spirit sees fit "until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ . . ." (Eph 4:13, RSV), it is obvious that the gifts are intended to function until the church has completed its ministry and human probation has closed. There is no evidence in Scripture that God ever intends to withdraw the prophetic gift or any of the other gifts this side of the Second Coming (cf. 1 Cor 13:8-12). There is, instead, the OT prophecy of Joel 2:28-32 which is repeated by Peter (Acts 2:16-21) foretelling an end-time outpouring of the Holy Spirit and a resultant activity of spiritual gifts. This matter is so significant to me in these last days that I included the above from the BRI “The Biblical Basis for a Modern Prophet” My question is why do we as a church tend to shy away from the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, a very necessary part of the Christian experience? It’s almost as if this relates only to “Pentecostal” faith not Adventist. If Adventist discuss the Gifts of the Holy Spirit it must be done through a Survey Method on 'paper'. Determining your spiritual gifts seldom includes prayer as the method for obtaining what God desires his church to have. God is the same yesterday today and forever. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:17. Recorded also in Ps 84:11: For the Lord God is a sun and shield: the Lord will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly. Not only will He give the good gifts according to His will, but He will also identify the gifts to the recipient. We can then test these gifts by the scriptures: 2 Thess. 5:19-21: Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Commenting on: • BRI Doc: Heppenstall, Edward, “How Perfect Is "Perfect" Or Is Christian Perfection Possible?” • Romans 5, Class notes • Whidden; Chapter 5, Salvation, the Great Controversy Theme, Closing Events, and the Law
God on trial or Christ on the cross?
I’ve heard of it and I suspect many of you have as well, “God is on trial and until the great controversy ends – He will continue to be on trial.” And so I wonder about whether or not God is still on trial.
I think probably not – at least not since calvary. Calvary was the answer to all the accusations of Satan – wasn’t it? Satan roars, Is God justice fair? Is the law fair? Was Satan being kicked to the curb and out of heaven fair?
God’s trial (if there ever was one) may have ended long ago – when Jesus was crucified.. The grace extended to us through his son did not destroy or take the place of the law – it fulfills and meets the law. Grace and Law are two sides of the same coin.
So… is God still on trial? Maybe, in the sense that all creation is waiting for the end to evaluate fairness with the advantage of hindsight. Or maybe if the world would look and learn of the cross, God’s judgment could now be a non-issue.
I’ve heard many diff answers as to why Peter lost his walking on water (floating) ability. Maybe… it because he took his eyes off of Jesus, maybe he was paying too much attention to the waves, maybe it’s because he looked at his ship-bound buddies and thought too much of himself.
I submit that though the reasons may be reasonable – they are not true. He sank because he had the tendency to sink in water. Peter does not float (walk on water) – wood does (without the walking). Peter’s body mass doesn’t allow for it. “The only thing that kept him walking on top of the sea was the power of Christ momentarily exercised counteracting the gravitational power to pull him down.”
I liken it to sin, we can not float above sin. We sink in it… we stink in it… we even live in it. There is only one way to oppose the gravitational pull. That one way is: Christ, our sole perfection, our sole righteousness. The righteousness of Christ that saves is not the beginning of a new self-righteousness, but the perpetual end of it.
Commenting on: • BRI Doc: Heppenstall, Edward, “How Perfect Is "Perfect" Or Is Christian Perfection Possible?” • Romans 5, Class notes • Whidden; Chapter 5, Salvation, the Great Controversy Theme, Closing Events, and the Law
This article is another one dealing with the debate of objective faith against subjective faith. In this tired, ridiculous argument, Paulsen “pulls a Hanna” and tells how faith is both objective and subjective. The following quotes show Paulsen’s holistic approach: “Faith is, first of all, something objective. That is, it has to do with information and data that lie outside my person and my experience.” “But this informed, objective aspect of faith becomes subjective when, looking at Jesus Christ, we move to place our trust in Him.” In the end, Paulsen argues for something everyone can agree with, that we should keep looking to Christ, being committed in our faith, and striving to further our belief in knowledge and practice.
Chapter 7 on Ellen White on Salvation
“At the heart of her [Ellen White’s] atonement thought was the balance between law and grace, justice and mercy, and the demonstration of this right relationship in Christ’s life—and ultimately in the believer.” It is so refreshing to read that Mrs. White kept the appropriate emphasis when thinking, writing, and speaking about Christ’s atonement. To often in Christendom, the argument is over the metaphors instead of the meaning. I found the most profound part of the chapter to be the Fritz Guy quote, “The death of Jesus is not God making someone else ‘pay the penalty’ instead of us; it is God taking the penalty on himself.” This quote seems to play well against the idea that God required blood/violence because of sin.
Romans 6
“What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means? We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?” This, the first verse in chapter 6, is timeless. Paul seems to be writing about the same issues that arise today from the law-grace pendulum swings. “Are we free to sin now because we are saved only by grace?” I also like Paul’s response later in the chapter (paraphrase): You are not free when you are in sin? Why would you want to go back to sin, when you are liberated by grace? We could ask these same questions on any given Sabbath today.
These are very good issues that you raise. Many of the BRI articles seem to have more emphasis on the objective part of salvation. Unfortunately, I think many of the authors for the BRI are choosing their language so carefully, (so they don’t get pinned on universalism, etc.), that they are not being helpful to the conversation. This is a call for us, as pastors, to take the kind of serious “bigger box” thinking that we’re learning in class, into the pulpits and pews.
Salvation's theme song (sing to the tune of “Blessed assurance”)
Blessed Insurance, Jesus is mine! The working Catholic gets glory divine! The theo liberal, writes about God, The liberal theo, fights with his blood.
Refrain This is sal-vation, this is it’s song, Some ways work quickly, others are long. This is sal-vation, this is it’s song, I am Adventist, can I belong?
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Finding our way in salvation theologies may seem tricky. But fear not, the Bible let's us know where we click with others and where we do not.
Peace, mika
Commenting on: • BRI Doc: Rodríguez, Angel Manuel, “Justification in Romans 3:21-24” • Romans 6, Class notes • Whidden: Chapter 6, Sin, the Human Condition, and Salvation
Romans 6 seems to be saying that justification and sanctification are interwoven. When we are united in Christ’s death and our sins are forgiven; so also we united in his resurrection and given new life. It is interesting that it is a conscious decision that we are encouraged to make in Romans 6:11 about our change and new life that we have from God. Without faith it is impossible to please God. It does not say that we no longer sin in this new life. We are told that we need to not let it reign over us. We are compared with slaves and slaves are powerless. Our job is to choose if we are going to be slaves to righteousness and God or to sin and Satan.
In the BRI article I was surprised to see the phrase that we are alienated from our true selves. This section reminds me of the song “Were it not for grace.” The song talks about if it wasn’t for the grace of God, I would be doing the same thing that anyone else is doing. This statement is very encouraging to me, “At every point in the story, God takes the initiative.” This tells me that God is the author and the finisher and the One making salvation possible at every step in my journey. I am glad that I have to say yes and God will give me life eternal now. Even though we have inherited a sinful nature; we can live in God’s presence moment by moment and say in faith, “If God is for me, who can be against me!” Adoption is a part of salvation that is not often talked about. It was refreshing to see it discussed in the article.
In chapter 6 by Whidden I like how he puts it that it is ‘free grace’ rather than ‘free will.’ This is Ellen White’s view of God’s initiative. We are so messed up that we would not respond to God unless he took the initiative and drew us to him. Yet he does not use force in this drawing. So without this drawing and wooing by God we are hopeless. I am thankful that God takes the initiative in our salvation.
_jamieSalvation Submission 10-12-07 Greetings fellow students! I am just finishing the reading as I am writing this but I found some things that I just had to write about immediately. We have been talking in class about whether or not to deal with other religions and points of view so I found EGW on Salvation rather interesting. On page 49 Whidden, talking about Ellen White, has this to say, “It is almost as if she went on a shopping trip at the doctrinal supermarket and was able to get all the choicest fruits without picking up a single rotten theological apple.” What a statement. Why was she able to do this? Because she had immersed herself in the Bible and everything that she looked at was sifted and sorted based on what the Bible had to say. I think too often we are so afraid that we might be tainted by someone else that we miss the further truth that the Lord would have us to learn. When it comes right down to it our acts of superiority because we have the truth are nothing more than prejudice. I know that is a little harsh but only when we realize that we are all in this walk together and that we are all trying to do what we think God would have us to do. Are we sure that we are right? And if we are sure does that not put us at the risk of blinding ourselves to God? I think only when we put ourselves in the shoes of people from other religions can we know best how to make friends with them and to tell them what we have found out about God on our Christian walk. I hope my fellow classmates with have a reaction to this. I like to dialog with people and I do it best when I can write. Another thing that I picked up on was the article The Dynamics of Salvation. I Love the picture that is painted here. We are on trial. Many see God the Father as the one that is accusing us but it is Satan. He wants us to go down with him and does whatever he can to get rid of us. He hates us. But then Jesus gets us and He says that we are righteous. He doesn’t deny that we are sinners but He points at His death and says that we are His. What a wonderful picture. Well I have run out of room and I am off to finish reading. Have a Happy Sabbath all. Jamie
Articles Read: “Christ Saved the Human Race” by Angel Manuel Rodríguez Romans 6 Ellen White On Salvation, Chapter 6.
Rodriguez examines some passages from the writings of Ellen White that seem to indicate a legal objective justification of the humanity at the cross. On close examination it was not difficult to see that Mrs. White never supported this idea. Although salvation was made possible to the entire race because of Christ’s death on the cross there is still a required response from the sinner in order to effect the virtue of that universal provision.
For example she clearly states, “If fallen human beings will consent to become sons and daughters of God in willing obedience, they will become one with Christ.” Also, "Christ has paid the price of your redemption. There is only one thing that you can do, and that is to take the gift of God.” In each case we see that there is something that the sinner must DO in order to receive salvation. The salvation doesn’t come from their acceptance as much as accepting a gift creates the gift itself or “deserves” the gift.
In reviewing Ellen White’s view of the human condition as a result of Adam’s sin she doesn’t go for the total depravity as taught in Calvinism. Now man cannot help himself without God’s help. We are all “dead in trespasses and sins” and a dead person cannot feel. This would indicate that God was do some “enabling” in order to make us conscious enough of our need. It’s a thin line between total depravity of the human nature and having “enough” left of God to help us to respond to his Holy spirit. If we can respond this would mean that sin didn’t totally obliterate the essence of God from us.
It is difficult to accept that “all our righteousness are as filthy rags”, but the Bible clearly teaches that even out best efforts are not good enough and still stained with selfishness. An interesting question to ponder in light of this is: Is selfish of me to want to be saved? In other words, am I self-seeking in wanting to gain eternal life?
This reminds us that there is nothing that could be meritorious about our works because it is still stained with selfishness and sin. This reminds me of the great reformer Martin Luther who taught that man’s sins is twofold. First, he does not fulfill the Commandments but transgresses them. And second, he sins against the First Commandment when he attempts to fulfill the Commandments in order to win salvation, since he thereby sins against God as the only God and creator who alone gives righteousness to men.
But Paul reminds us that the stained nature of our works doesn’t release us from the obligation to do good works. “What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. (Romans 6:15-18)
For Paul, the same enthusiasm we showed in doing the works of unrighteousness is the same or greater enthusiasm we need in doing the works of righteousness.
I raise the question in class with regards to REWARDS and the GIFT of salvation. My understanding is that our works will “earn” us rewards but salvation is gift. This was illustrated by the parable of the servants who came different hours but received the same pay. But on the other hand there is the parable of the talents and those who worked the hardest received the greater increase.
Jesus didn’t rebuke his disciples when they asked about reward. He in fact answered their questions that they would receive a hundredfold in this life and much more in the life to come. I don’t think that we need look at our works just in terms of salvation but as a response to Christ’s goodness to us we will want to work for him.
Jesus did say of his Father when he was accused of breaking the Sabbath commandment that He works and I work. Why does God work? Wasn’t Adam appointed his work even before sin? Why should we just consider works only in the context of salvation?
Reflection by Eric Ollila Week of: Oct. 7-13, 2007
Whidden, “Sin, the Human Condition, and Salvation”
Overall I think Whidden did a great job summing up a very complex subject. It is always refreshing to be reminded of God’s continual persuing after us, even when we do not realize our perilous condition.
I am reminded of Romans 6:16 which says Rom. 6:16 (KJV) 16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
When Adam and Eve yielded to the enemy, their wills came under the dominion of satan. Christ, in His mercy had to “put” enmity between the serpent and the woman. This enmity, or war, would not naturally exist between sinners and satan had not God specially interposed.
COMMENTS ON ROMANS 6
Rom. 6:6 through Rom. 6:8 (KJV) 6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
When the old man is crucified, I picture myself, with all my evil desires, ambitions, envyings, and rebellion being laid in the tomb and then rising with Jesus on the third day with His desires, His ambitions, and His love, and peace, and motive. This passage speaks to me specially at this time because it is a promise that when I accept Christ and surrender my sins and fears, the body of sin is destroyed. In other words the evil desires, emotions, imaginations, and urges that are tugging at me to give in become crucified. They are laid to rest. They are cast down along with every high thing that exalts itself against Christ.
But that is not all. Not only does this baptism cast down the imaginations, but it enables us to not serve sin. Why? Because when we die to self, we are freed from sin. True it is a process and it does not happen all at once. We do not gain the victory over every sin all at the same time. There are some sins that we must bring to the feet of Jesus many times before we physically experience the deliverance from them. But none the less, the process is the same. The old man is crucified that the body of sin might be destroyed and that henceforth we should not serve sin. It is just like the children of Israel driving the heathen nations out of the land that God had promised them. God did not drive all of the nations out at once, because as He said the land would become a vast wilderness and many foxes and owls would overtake it.
So it is with our soul. God drives sin out as we are able to occupy the newly gained territory with healthy habits and patterns of living. This is a wonderful chapter that has so many different aspects that could be touched on.
This chapter is speaking about both the baptism by the Spirit and baptism by water. In both cases the chapter has tremendous lessons to learn.
Romans 6: This chapter is on being alive to Christ and dead to sin. My favorite section is verses 11-14, “In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.” We are therefore no longer slaves to sin but to righteousness.
Whidden, Woodrow W. “Chapter Six: Sin, the Human Condition and Salvation,” from: Ellen White on Salvation. Berrien Springs: R&H Catalog Service.
This chapter covers issues of Sin, salvation, depravity, guilt, merit, perfection, free-will, calling and conversion. I learned that Ellen White believed in original sin yet was not concerned with original guilt. She also believed that one was not perfect until glorified. I also found it interesting that she did not buy into “total depravity” but believed in depravity.
Rodríguez, Ángel Manuel. Christ Saved the Human Race. http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/christsavedhumanrace.htm
This article by Rodriguez is called, Christ Saved the Human Race, and answers the question what did Ellen White mean when she said, “Christ saved the world”. Some have used this phrase in support of a universal salvation message yet Rodriguez believes that this is taken out of context. He writes, “The alienation of humans from God, which was the result of the fall, came to an end through Christ. He became a living bridge between God and humans because he was both, human and divine. This was Christ's objective act of salvation. He made it possible for human beings to be united with God; he "connected earth with heaven." But only repentant sinners can benefit from that salvation. That is what she meant when she said that Christ "saved the world.” He clearly states that Ellen White never stated that Christ universally saved the whole world but simply anyone who believes may be saved.
In this chapter, Whidden tackles Ellen White’s view of the nature of Christ. In his brief exposition, he makes a number of poignant observations that have significance beyond the current debate. The biggest point he makes is that the traditional arguments regarding the nature of Christ had very little, if any, bearing on her understanding of salvation. In fact, as she dealt with the nature of Christ, she dealt with a completely different issue: the fact that the divine and the human could coexist in the same person. Ellen White was generally unconcerned with the debate about the human nature of Christ as evidenced by her lack of a comprehensive treatise on the issue. It is also interesting to note that her apparent perspective changed based on the theological issues she was addressing. These seemingly contradictory statements did not constitute flip-flopping in the mold of present-day politicians. Instead, it represented an intentional focus on the aspects of the truth that would speak most directly to the issue at hand. It seems that all of the arguments would cease if people allowed themselves to look at all of her statements on an issue instead of just a few. This debate is a good example of a need for a more comprehensive view of theological issues. The reality is that the Bible has little to say about Christ’s human nature, and Ellen White has statements that would support either view. Is it possible that the true answer is, “both?” It seems to me that Jesus was enough like us to understand our plight as humans, yet enough different to be called our Savior. As we seek to investigate the “mystery” of God who was man, I’m not sure how well we will truly understand.
I like Tim's synopsis of Whidden's Ellen G White on Salvation: "In chapter 6 by Whidden I like how he puts it that it is ‘free grace’ rather than ‘free will.’ This is Ellen White’s view of God’s initiative. We are so messed up that we would not respond to God unless he took the initiative and drew us to him. Yet he does not use force in this drawing. So without this drawing and wooing by God we are hopeless. I am thankful that God takes the initiative in our salvation." So succinctly expressed. We are completely incapacitated by our sinful nature and did not just need a Redeemer, but a Redeemer who would take the initiative and draw us back to Himself. Max Lucado is right- No wonder they call Him Savior! Garfield
In Chapter 6 the Apostle is convinced that without Christ we can do nothing. Certainly, Christ's sacrifice is a way of escape from degradation and sin. Each human being has the alternative of accepting the free gift or not to accept and this seems to be both Whidden's and Angel Manuel Rodriguez in book and article concerning Mrs White's viewpoint regarding the issue of our salvation. However, to the Apostle to me is suggesting that the bill has been paid we are free, the sacrifice has been offered we have been emancipated, emancipated to the extent that we can choose without inhibition to follow Christ. I do not believe that as a people (SDA's) we quite understand the emancipation we experience as a result of accepting Christ's offer. Some in the Church believe that offices can make them justified, while others such as clergymen hold the notion that just having a church will do the trick. Yet there are others who feel that as long as they are attending "the remnant Church" its a done deal! It does a appear from our assigned reading that none of these can cause us to purchase our way "from Purgatory to Glory." On the other hand however, it is clear that Salvation comes through Christ and Christ alone- that the process of receiving it is a radical dynamic that oscillates between justification, sanctification and glorification.
One on the good things about salvation and the good news is that it has depth that it could tax the sharpest intellect, yet it is simple enough that a child can understand. As we stand before God we are condemned, because of our sin. Even our righteousness is like filthy rags. We are alienated from one another and even from the created world.
However, it is not Gods desire that we stay in that position. Rather He wants us to be redeemed from our lostness. God goes at length to save us, so much so that the self-righteous is baffled by it. Thus they seek to work to attain salvation. Consequently, we don’t have to work to attain salvation, because Jesus has come to liberate us from the depravity of sin. Furthermore, the cross is there as an example of the supreme manifestation of Gods love. The cross speaks of more than mercy, it also speaks of a powerful condemnation of sin by the ‘holy love of a holy God.’
Salvation is not about what we can do to be saved, rather its all about what God has done for us that we might be saved, because at every point in our salvation process it is God that takes the initiative. Therefore, we can have confidence that we are adopted in the family of God, and this means that we are the recipients of the full status of been sons and daughters of God. Salvation brings about the change from slavery to sin to the newness of life in Christ.
Romans 5, Whidden Ch 5, BRI “How Perfect I ‘Perfect’ Or Is Christian Perfection Possible?” by Heppenstall
Heppenstall’s paper "How Perfect Is 'Perfect' Or Is Christian Perfection Possible?" addresses two questions that most Christians have asked themselves at some point. Can we be Perfect Christians? Didn’t Jesus instruct us to be perfect as His Father in Heaven is perfect? I agree to a large extent to what Heppenstall had to say, but there did seem to be some reoccurring questions that began to pose themselves in my mind as I continued to read. Could Jesus prepare a people to reflect His image in the very end? Could He do it if He wanted to? What role does the antitypical day of Atonement play into the subject of perfection at the end of time? Didn’t the children of Israel live in a constant state of repentance and self-examination and preparation as they prepared for the great Day of Atonement? So, shouldn’t we be doing the same? I think Heppenstall is saying yes. The only other questions that remain in my mind are…what about the sealing? Once we’re sealed, does that mean that we won’t sin again? I suppose there is a part of me that feels like if you have the mindset or the theology that concedes the possibility of obedience to God, then doesn’t that make Satan out to be more powerful than Jesus? Wasn’t that Satan’s original claim in heaven? That God’s law could NOT be kept. While I can’t say that I will ever knowingly come to a place where I am aware of any state of perfection in me, I do believe that whoever fixes their eyes, their attention on Jesus and Him crucified, that they will become increasingly more and more perfect like Jesus.
Afterall a perfect Christlike character is what we’ve been called to receive…it is like Heppenstall said, it’s a day by day process. To challenge Heppenstall’s view’s on perfection, I submit to you, Jesus instructions at His Sermon on the Mount. Jesus instructed His followers to love their enemies as themselves. He followed up this instruction with the statement, “Be ye therefore perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect.” So according to scripture, what does it mean to be perfect? It means to love your enemy as yourself. Does Jesus expect this from us? So does Jesus expect perfection from us? It seems to indicate in His Word, in His teachings that He does. It’s clear, the only way we can do this is to have Jesus living in our hearts. Jesus loves His enemies. He calls us to love our enemies. The only way this can happen is if we are dead to ourselves, and Jesus is living in our hearts. He places His perfect love in us, day by day, moment by moment. If Jesus wants to make His people perfect, who am I, or who is anyone, to say He can’t do that? Jesus is God…He can do whatever He wants to do…He can certainly place hearts and minds in His people that love the unlovable, that love even those who hate them…to love your enemy, this is what Jesus did when He saved us…Jesus expects this same sort of selfless character in His children. We can’t produce it, only He can in us.
I appreciated Whidden's dealing with the topic of atonement. He didn't seem 'married' to just one theory. He did seem to strongly favor the Penal Substitutionary (perhaps because EGW seemed to) while not excluding the moral influence. The lack of discussion on the Christus Victor theory of atonement was was an oversight in my mind. When he said the EGW acted like she was at a 'buffet' I was prepared for more of a buffet and not just a couple items on the menu. What he did deal with, he dealt with well. I just would have like to have seen a couple more theories out there.
BRI: Dynamics of Salvation Whidden: Chapter 6 Acts 6
Anyone born with guilt? Anyone totally depraved? Anyone in need of perfection? These questions have always paraded my mind, and I am grateful to note that Ellen White had a clear cut view on each of these pertinent concepts. She was very clear that we were not born with guilt. She was not troubled according to Whidden with the thought that "God allows humans to be subject to an inheritance that leads inevitably to sinful acts, which result in guilt." What do you think of this stament? This perspective demands much thought. I welcome this new insight as it was my understanding that we were born with the guilt of our forefather Adam. However, this article has clarified my misconception. What was even clearer is my total depravity. This state of total depravity can only be helped by Jesus. This is encouraging to note for should we ever conceive that anything we merit is of our own doing, we would be of men most miserable. As Whidden declares and I strongly believe “Only what has come from the “untainted” nature of the sinless Jesus has saving merit.” This is true as WE CANNOT DO ANYTHING TO MERIT SALVATION. So our human efforts at achieving this feat are futile. All our great works and accomplishments will not guarantee us an eternal reward. I am happy that it is “God who works in us, both to will and to do of His good pleasure.” Therefore, through Christ I am perfect. I am complete in Him. My character can be made perfect, and the meritorious perfection of Christ’s life and death can credited to my account. This gives the sinner hope and the saint assurance of a better and more glorious life in Christ. Yes, our redemption is Christ centered and involves all aspects of our life.
It is no wonder Paul affirms the foregoing in chapter 6 of Romans when he uses the baptismal experience as a symbol of the new life in Christ. It is my belief that when we recognize how depraved we are and our great need of the righteousness of Christ we will truly experience his saving power. We will become dead to sin, and alive in Him. The new man will walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. We will become Christ’s slave, an honored status for any depraved human being. It is this dynamic experience of salvation that is so carefully outlined in the BRI document.
1 Timothy 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
by just reading this verse in any english version, it is possible to get confuse very cunfuse. I understand that Jesus in the new testament showed very clear in Mathew 25 that at the time of the second coming, there will be two groups, the saved and the lost(the lambs & the goats).
know as read 1 tim. 4:10 that "God, who is the Savior of all men" is here when misunderstanding take place. So Angel Manuel Rodriguez explain in the article a better way to understand this verse. I am very satisfied with his argument, so now become clear in my mind that God provide a way for the human race to be save, but it is necesary to acept His salvation plan to become save. So no everybody is save as universal group. As is show in the article there is oprtunity of salvation for every mankind if we just acept it
Romans 6, Whidden Ch 6, BRI's article by George Reid, Why Did Jesus Die? How God Saves Us
Reid answers his title’s question with a backdrop that includes the explanation of pagan religions. He explains that all pagan religions hinge upon the idea that the god(s) are angry at man and must be appeased. But the One and only Living God, the Creator, instead of being appeased of His anger, He initiates reconciliation, by stepping forward and dying as a sacrifice for us.
This is such a wonderful picture of God’s character. The greatest danger that Christians face, is to misunderstand the character of God. To understand that God was the One to initiate reconciliation, eases our minds as we attempt to approach God. So often we think God in His anger is hiding from us. This perhaps is one of Satan’s greatest deceptions. People in the Christian church are still perpetuating this with the doctrine of eternal hell. Some Christian denominations hold “revival” meetings where they scare the listeners half to death with word pictures of hell fire burning sinners for eternity. They call these sort of meetings “revivals”?! Motivating people to obey God out of fear is sad. Instead God’s plan of salvation included His Son’s incarnation and death on Calvary to show that God is not mad at us, but on the contrary, He loves us with a completely pure self-emptying agape. Obedience motivated out of love is the only thing God wants.
REFLECTION ON CHAPTER 9 OF THE BOOK ELLEN G WHITE ON SALVATION. Basically chapter nine is about Justification by faith and its’ challenges. This subject is one of the cardinal doctrines of salvation. It is hardly inseparable from sanctification and glorification .The challenge posed a danger which made. Ellen G white to respond before the 1888 meeting to be held at Minneapolis. One of the problems was that some argued that, if justification is purely by faith alone, then keeping of the law is of no value. They had evidence that even the true believers don’t manifest the works of obedience. Indeed I strongly dispute this argument .For according to Paul, in Romans 12:7 says that, “the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.” Also in he continues to says Romans 3:31, that “Do we then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.” So this teaching was biblically incorrect. In addition , Ellen G White writes that” faith must be sustained by Works, the doers of Works are justified before God” To give more biblical evidence, this is what the father our of faith Abraham did by coming out of Haran. Calvinism was another challenge. For Calvin remarked that “once saved always saved.” Also I strongly disagree with Calvin, for salvation is in three phases according to the bible, hence it is past, present and future. Ellen G White also denounces this teaching as unbiblical. She even goes further by saying that it is dangerous to say that “I am saved.” Even though I disagee with her as well because If one cannot give a testimony, then what kind of salvation can one claim? .Throughout the scripture, there are several incidents where all who were saved had to give a very strong testimony in favour of christ and his gospel. Therefore I fear that if there is no testmony, then salvation may not be complete.
Who can it be knocking at my door? I always thought there was only one person knocking at my door and asking to come in and sup with me. But I think now that sin personified has knocked at the door as well. Sin has knocked and Adam opened the door. Though Adam’s sin is not my sin, his door opening had an impact universally in that he allowed sin to take control of the world.
And so here we are trying to keep the door closed from anyone else entering. Maybe that’s why the Lord says he stands at the door and actively knocks from the outside. Because the door is not only closed to the outside, but it is also closed from the inside out.
In other words, we’ve not only locked out folks but we have also locked sin it. Adam opened that door and all hell has broken loose in our house. Can you hear it? “Knock, Knock…” this time, it’s not the door – it’s sin actively knocking your life against a wall and laughing about it. But wait…
“Knock, Knock…” This time it’s at the door. Sin seems timid at the sound of this knock. Sin is threatened at this knock. And who can it be? I mean, I made neither appointment nor gave an invitation for a visit.
“Knock, Knock…” this knock was not initiated by me. No this knock was earned and initiated by Him. The right to knock was earned in Jesus victoriously emerging with all power after the active, non-passive judgment was placed upon him. I shall, I will for the sake of objective grace, subjectively open the door and let glory in… who is this king of glory? The Lord strong and mighty! Who is this king of glory…
Commenting on: • BRI Doc: Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, Justification and the Cross • Romans 7, Class notes • Whidden: The Atonement, Ch. 7
Romans 7 points out that when we die with Christ, we die to the law. Right after that comes the promise that we are raised with Christ and united with Him. This second part is often left out when talking about our relation to the law. I appreciate how Paul upholds the law in chapter 7. He says the shows us our need. So often in preaching about the law, the emphasis is about the law being Ten Commandments that we need to keep because God said so. I saw the law in a new light while reading Romans 7 that needs to be highlighted. The law shows us we are all sinners and need Jesus and his grace. The law is about bringing us down on our knees rather than puffing us up with an attitude that says ‘I am better than you because I keep the right day!’
The BRI article about Christian perfection seemed to come at the discussion with an emphasis on righteousness by faith. I appreciated that they pointed out sin is much more than the deeds that we do that are wrong. It encompasses the state that we are in. In connection with this the article pointed out perfection as a maturity rather than avoiding a bunch of bad things in life. The article emphasized that the way to find victory is to abide in Christ. I agree that this is the key in dealing with sin. Sin is more powerful than us. But Christ is more powerful than sin and wants to work in our lives to give us victory.
I am not so sure about this sentence in the article: “In proportion to the maturity and completeness of his knowledge will be the completeness of his surrender and victory.” I think this puts too much stock in knowledge. I do believe that knowledge is important. But to balance it out there are some other key elements in having victory in our lives such as community (support from other believers) and experience (the heart to go with the head).
“Why Did Jesus Die? How God Saves Us” George W. Reid
“Typical of pagan religions, the ancient Greeks worked to appease their gods, quieting the gods' anger and seeking favor with gifts and a regimen of specified deeds. Unfortunately, this concept persists among some Christians today, at times surfacing in arguments over faith and works. But appeasement on any grounds is a pagan idea worthy of rejection.”
This was a key insight. I often go into minor convulsion when people play up a substitutionary metaphor for Christ’s death. Did he die for us? Sure. But did he die because some entity required blood (either Satan or the Father)? That is much more problematic. Thus, this insight into the pagan idea of appeasement stood out for me.
Chapter 8 on Ellen White on Salvation
This chapter is iterating was Dr. Hanna has reiterated: The doctrine of Christ’s humanity has an intrinsic tension that should remain. All of this “Pre-fall/Post-fall” nonsense that goes on now is spending a lot of thought and energy that could be better used. Actually, Jan Paulsen recently gave an address that said the same type of thing—this argument is not worth the time and energy being put into it! It looks like Ellen White would agree.
Romans 7
“What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law” (verse 7).
Again, Paul is keeping people on task with holistic thinking. Do we have grace through Christ that transcends the law? Certainly. Does that mean the law is not necessary, or evil? Certainly not. I love the way Paul defines the law when he says, “I would not have known what sin was except through the law.” This definition keeps the law purposeful, without giving it too much emphasis.
MATENA KEFA O. REflection on Romans Chapter 3. FREE GIFT FOR ALL. From our previous study in the book of Romans,we are able to see how, he [Paul] is building on several theological subjects from one stage to another. In this chapter, Paul develops a relational concept in regard to his teaching on the great subject on righteousness.God's righteousness is His faithfulness to the covenant and to his people.God had promised that He could be Israel's God and they would be His people, hence His righteousness is that relational faithfulness to the covenant. Human righteousness cannot be identical to God's, for God and humans do not come to the covenant on equal terms,nevertheless human and divine righteouness are closely related.Both are relational in nature.Human righteouness has to do with being in proper covenant relationship with God.Because of the universal sin problem of both Gentiles and Jews that Paul had earlier outlined, the solution is for God to take the initiative and set this relationship right. God's righteousnessis His faithful action on behalf of His people.This action comes throuh Jesus Christ.In christ God acts as the faithful Judge who vindicates the oppressed.God is not only righteous, He also justifies humanns by His grace.Meaning that God sets His people into a right relationship with Him and restores the covenant that they had broken.It is worth noting that the concept under study has a social dimension.The covenant not only creates creates individual relationship with God; but also it creates a people in a relationship with God.When God establishes a righteousness through Christ,it isnot merely to let individuals know know how they can be saved; it is to create a new community in relationship to Himself that includes both Jews and Gentiles[Galatians 3:29].Righteouness by faith is not only a method for individual salvation; instead it is God's action to form a new covenant community.Seemingly, many debates in regard to righteousness, both in Adventist cycles and in the wider christian community, seems to miss this social dimension.God'righteouness is a community forming righteousness, which in turn creates a people, God's people, who share in His blessings together.This people is all-embracing people that excludes no one on the basis of race, gender,nation or status.
MATENA KEFA O. REFLECTION ON CHAPTER 4 OF ROMANS. ABRAHAM OUR FOREFATHER. Paul finds Abraham, the undisputed forefather of the Jews, to be the perfect example to prove two basic points he has to make namely;Salvation is based on faithin God's grace, not works, and that salvation is for all.The first point gets support from Genesis 15:6, which reads "Abraham believed the Lord,and credited it t him as righteouness" The second is Genesis 17:5, Where God says to Abram,"no will you be called Abram; your name will be called Abraham,for i have made you a father of many nations".The above texts are useful as Paul labours to confirm that Abraham is the best model example to use as he makeshis Point.Abraham trusted God not works[vvs.3-5].Abraham received righteousness as agift, not as wages[v.4].Abraham was uncircumcised when he was justified [v.10].Abraham became heir through promise, not law [v.13].Abraham became, the father of all[vvs.12,16] Abraham hoped against hope [v.18].Abraham was strong, not weak in faith vvs.20,21].Abraham was an example for us [vs.23].It was Abraham's faith or trust that led him to being counted righteous before God.The word credited tells us that according to Paul Abraham received righteousness on the basis of grace,not works.This grace is appropriated by Abraham's faith in God who justifies the wicked [v.5].Two importants worth noting are; One,God's righteousness is not only made known but it is also effected by the sacrifice of atonement by Jesus Christ.Second,God's acquittal is more than a forensic declalation;it is an initiative that sets the situation right and actually makes a difference by bringing the wicked into a new relationship with Abraham trusting such a God, and it was credited to him as rightousness. This hence makes him a perfect example of righteousness by grace through faith.Abraham's example affirms God's impartial generosity to all people,Jews, and Gentiles, and assures every one of us that God is our Saviour too.
The Cosmic Christ of Scripture has been object of my meditation. It is easy to follow. Anyone whose English is second or third, or fourth language can read it and get the message that is being communicated there. One will not go away from this book with seeing Christ, Scripture, and Nature lifted up. It is fascinating to know that theology can be as challenging as science. It is as difficult to understand the cosmic Christ of Scripture as it is to understand Creation through Science. In fact, true theology needs to be humble, dynamic, and open. Scripture does not make it easy for anyone to minimize the cosmos. I like the middle of page 25 where Dr. Hannah makes reference of true science and theology. It goes like this “true science and theology involve the mind of Christ, a cooperation of faith and reason, and recognition of the limits of faith and reason.” To me, neither can get away with it. They both need each other to be holistically well sounded. I like the way you make your appeal to non Adventists. Prophecy is fulfilled before my very eye because according to Daniel 12:4 many will run to and from because knowledge will be increased. The saints will integrate faith and learning says Dr. Hannah. I notice both Christians and non Christians will be participating in the increase of knowledge. That’s nice! Does it mean God is respecter of person? Montes Estinphil
Earl Reflection #1 Rom 1, BRI Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White, Ch1&2 Ellen white on Salvation
In reflecting on the reading done for week one I was able to gain a better insight into the issue of Salvation. Unlike most I am still struggling to truly grasp the concept of salvation as discussed in the class. As it would appear my model of salvation was to simplistic and requires more energy and thought. After reading about the struggle that Ellen Harmon had to go through in regard to the perfect sanctification of life. I must admit that I have began to question my reasoning for my views about salvation through grace. I understand the importance of nurture and its impact on our lives. I can also appreciate the time in which my life has been molded. But at the core of the matter this class has surfaced a deep need within to better understand why I believe what I believe and devote more time and effort to better understand the principles involved in salvation. The impact of Adam fall depicted in the BRI article by Mr. Rodríguez was also very helpful and thought provoking. Because prior to this assignment my scope in regard to the implications of Adams sin was mixed. I understand the fact as representative Adam failed us but I guess I never thought that our existence was completely based on him accepting God salvation. I was always under the assumption that the task would have been passed on from generation to generation until we got it right. Another concept I never give much consideration to was the fact that at the fall of Adam we became slave to sin. This was also interesting to because I viewed sin at that point as and option not as a requirement. Meaning that we still had the choice not to sin but since we too fail to choose God at this point it was only then that Jesus had to come and die on the cross. Hence that is why in Romans 1: 18 we read of the wrath of God revealed against ungodliness. Because it was the continued rejection of man not the initial rejection of Adam that angered God. “ Bear with me Work in progress”
I appreciated the discussion on page 50 of Whidden’s book regarding the wrath of God. He states that Ellen Whites view there are many indications of God’s active wrath against sinners. Furthermore, he points out that God is the sustainer of life and that His ultimate restraining power over the forces of evil is what protects us from harm. (pg. 50). God is the One who gives “self-destructing sinners” probationary time.
Whidden then urges we take a step further and states “Doesn’t it seem that God would be just as surely responsible for the death of sinner by withdrawing His life-giving power as He would be in directly destroying them by the fires of hell? Since God is the source of all life, it is quite apparent that He is also ultimately the one who allows death! And whether such death is actively brought on or passively allowed really makes no difference if one wants to lift the ultimate responsibility for the death of sinners from God. The really definitive question is not whether God’s justice is active or passive, but whether it is just and consistent with His character of merciful love.” (pg. 50-51).
I think he hit the nail on the head. That is what its all about--whether God is who He says He is or if He is a tyrannical liar like satan accuses Him of. In the end, we know from a Biblical view that God will ultimately destroy sin and the devil and all those who chose to remain in sin. Furthermore, we know that prior to destroying sin and sinners and the devil and his angels, it will be revealed to both the righteous and the wicked of all ages that God is just and how He has dealt with the sin problem is just and loving all at the same time.
I appreciated the chapter.
COMMENTS ON CLASS DISCUSSION:
I just wanted to comment on the discussion in class about whether the devil partakes of God’s grace due to the fact that he is alive still. I have thought about this several times since accepting Christ as my Savior, and it never ceases to amaze me that God’s character is so just and honorable that He would put forth daily effort to sustain the life of beings who’s whole purpose is to destroy and malign His [God’s] character and authority.
It gives a different perspective to loving your enemies and giving them a glass of water. It is an honor and love and justice that I do not comprehend. I want to though. I want that kind of character in my life. A character that loves and serves my enemies, even when they are all about destroying me.
Articles Read: “The Dynamics of Salvation” by Righteousness by Faith Consultation Romans 7 Ellen White On Salvation, Chapter 7.
Whidden discusses in this chapter the atonement views of Ellen White. He shows that although Ellen White used the word ‘atonement’ in a very broad sense, it included “all the Trinity has done or is doing, and will do to save man.” She often emphasized the penal-substitutionary model to show the “justness of God’s love”. Yet I find that the ideas of penalty, substitution and satisfaction are less favored over the “moral influence” model of Christ’s dying because of God’s love for a lost world.
Ellen White’s view of the cross as covered in The Desire of Ages depicts in as far as human language can detail the PRICE that Jesus paid for our redemption. A penalty had to be paid and even Jesus prayed to His Father to be exempted. I think that the Old Testament sanctuary system also depicted this penal-substitutionary model quite well in the death of the sacrificial animals brought by the offending sinner to the sanctuary. It is so easy to forget that forgiveness COSTS God an infinite price. Justice demanded that the price be paid and we could never measure up to these demands. So I agree with Whidden that “without a powerful sense of retributive justice, justification by faith dissolves into sentimental indulgence.”
In Roman 7 Paul discusses the obligation the law places upon him and the conflict that arise in him because of the presence of the “law of sin” in his sinful nature. I know that many discuss whether this conflicting experience was pre-conversion or post-conversion for Paul. I think that this was the latter because Paul speaks of a “delight in God’s Law” (v. 22) and I cannot imagine the unconverted person speaking of a delight to do God’s will.
So if this is our post-conversion experience this means that we have a daily battle to fight and God’s grace has to be applied at every “stage” of our salvation. As per class discussion, the neat justification sanctification glorification model would not work here. This means that for Paul and the Christian, every day we need justification AND sanctification working in our lives.
Notice also how Paul claims “it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. (v. 17). He is not claiming personal responsibility but utter helplessness at doing anything good on his own. Although this can be used to argue for ‘total depravity’ of man, Paul still senses that there is a struggle and a totally depraved person will not even sense this struggle. Just how much of God’s image is left inside man so that he is still “enabled” to respond may be a mystery but we know that if God totally abandoned man he would die right away.
Hence as the BRI articles succinctly stated, “We cannot fully comprehend the manner in which the Holy Spirit energizes our wills to produce faith. We may say that we receive God's salvation because we have chosen to do so, but we must affirm also that whatever is human in faith is possible only because of the divine initiative in the work of the Holy Spirit. Thus there can be no "boasting" in our faith (Rom. 3:27).”
Salvation Week 7 Submission This week I read Romans 7, chapter 8 in EGW on Salvation, and the article How Perfect is “Perfect” or Is Christian Perfection Possible? I always have fun trying to comment on everything in the reading and I won’t be able to do it this time either. I was very impressed by the article this week. I have really been thinking about the doctrine of Salvation for some time. I have found that my conclusions are often not popular and there are people who don’t agree with me most of the time. Because of this I have done a lot of rethinking what I believe and I have not been able to find the faults in my thinking that some other people are able to find. This article restated what I already thought. I have many times heard people say things like yes you can come to Christ as you are but you have to clean up your own life before you are baptized. How is it that you clean up your own life? I have heard people say that we have a work to do. In saying this they imply that somehow we are just in partnership with God. When we truly understand how bad we are and how bad sin is we find that we are totally and completely rotten to the core. If that is true then what work can we do to fix ourselves? God has to intervene just to give us the option of serving Him. If we are that bad what can we do for ourselves? Does that mean that we just sit on our butts? No, it doesn’t, but it does mean that we don’t have any power to do anything ourselves. In surrendering ourselves we give full control to God. He is the only one that can save and change us. Our responsibility is to surrender every part of our life and stay connected to Him. I once had a teacher that said something that really made sense to me, when we surrender our lives to Christ we surrender our right to an agenda. God decides what we change when and He works out that change in us. It isn’t us that do anything. I know many people who feel that they have to do part of the work and they often are some of the most bitter and mean people that you will ever meet. It is only in knowing how bad we are that we become compassionate toward others who struggle as we do. This week’s article was very helpful in helping me see this. See ya next week.
Read this week: Romans 7; Ellen White on Salvation- Chapter 7; Dynamics of Salvation by Righteousness by Faith Cons. Ellen White’s concepts of the atonement were highlighted by Whidden in this Chapter. Much of her work on the subject of atonement may appear at first glance elementary and theologically limited, but in the emerging discussions profound theological concepts are being gleaned from her writings. She clearly shows that the Trinity was integrally involved, is still involved and will continue to play substantial theme effort in the reconciliation of man to God. Interestingly though, Mrs. White’s views of the subject appear to be quite independent of her contemporaries, slanting instead to the Biblical concept rather than historic views. Whidden does note however that Mrs. White does fall into three of the prevailing theories regarding the subject. One such notion is the Moral Influence Theory which purports that Christ’s death at Calvary is God loving response to a lost race. That God’s justice is not exemplified in Christ’s sacrifice. While moral influence cannot be denied, God must ultimately eradicate the disease of sin from His universe. The Satisfaction Theory on the other hand advocates that God’s justice demands satisfaction and that Christ’s death meets the required propitiation. However, God is not seeking satisfaction, but reconciliation! On the other hand the Penal-Substitutionary Theory which holds that God’s justice demands a penalty for the transgression of His law. While all three concepts are held throughout Christendom; Seventh-day Adventist and particularly our articles this week (including Whidden’s Ellen White on Salvation) seem to hold to the penal- Substitutionary Theory. Indeed, the act of rebellion has a natural consequence-death. Paul emphasizes that while we were yet sinner Christ died to redeem us from sin. Fitz Guy is indeed right- Christ death is not God sending someone to die in our stead, but God Himself died so that we might live.
Debbedo Brown Chapter7 "Atonement" Romans 6 It was very refreshing and admirable the way in which Woodrow presented the wholistic or balance perspective of Ellen White on the subject of the atonement. The atonement has been misrepresented and limited by many to certain aspect of Jesus ministry. Some today promulgate the belief that the atonement was finished and does not go beyond the cross. Consequently, they do not believe that the atonement is apart of Christ High Priestly ministry. The word atonement means at-one-ment, the process of bringing God and man at one. Christ death on the cross-brought about reconciliation between God and Man, Paul says “God was in Christ at the cross reconciling the world unto Himself.” Therefore, since atonement involves the process of reconciliation between God and man it is very evident that it took place at the cross. What about Christ High Priestly ministry? The Bible makes it clear that we have a high priest in the heaven through which we have direct access to the Father and that His purpose their also includes reconciliation between God and man. Since, this is so evidently then the High priestly ministry of Christ does involve atonement. Furthermore, in the ancient sanctuary system on the Day of Atonement when the high priest entered the sanctuary with the blood of the Lord’s goat and sprinkled it there the Bible says, “he made an atonement for the people.” The high priest ministry was a shadow or representation of Christ ministry, the pleading and application of Christ’s blood in the Heavenly sanctuary on the sinner’s behalf clearly includes atonement similar to that of the ancient high priest, but in greater magnitude. Therefore, the big picture or inclusive view of the atonement is that it happened at the cross and stretches beyond the cross into the High Priestly ministry of Christ. The thing that should not be lost sight of is that the atonement that happened at the cross was in no way limited or was in no way incomplete. It was a full and complete atonement in which the penalty for man’s sin was completely atoned for. Atonement was full and complete at the cross but its benefits or application in the believer’s life is what Christ is performing in the heavenly sanctuary.
Reflection 6 The Atonement; Rom.6 In the Writings from E.G. White on the Atonement, she writes that through the cross man was drawn to God, and the sinner was drawn from the stronghold of sin. She continues to say the cross speaks of more than mercy. She gives also a powerful condemnation of sin by the “holy love of a Holy God.” This holiness of God is depicted in the Law. Before the law of Moses, man died from sin; as by one man sin entered into the world, and death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned Rom. 5:11 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. vs13 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. (Jesus) vs14. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.vs.15 The law revealed the penalty and sinfulness of sin, revealing also the guilt and true nature of sin. Rom 5:20 states where sin abounded, grace did much more abound. Where sin exists, grace brings deliverance. So Paul asks shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Rom 6:1 He then answers vs. 2: God Forbid. How then shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Which then is greater sin or grace? The work of grace is greater than the work of sin. Where there is a superabundance of sin - grace outweighed the sin. It goes deeper than the act; It did much more abound through faith in Jesus. This act of grace, Paul is saying changes the nature of the believer. The practice of sin is foreign to one who is no longer living in the sinful nature. Because of this abundant grace, Christ’s death saves from sin. Being made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. Rom. 6:18
Dale Baker BRI: How Perfect Is "Perfect" Or Is Christian Perfection Possible? Ellen White: 'The Nature of Christ and Salvation'
Discussions about the nature of Christ have sparked much discussion in the Adventist church. There is much disparity about the fact of whether or not Christ took on full humanity and divinity. There is also much discussion on whether or not He used His divinity to overcome sin. I am persuaded that if He used His divinity to help Him overcome the temptations that He faced, then He could not be my savior.
Clearly, it is a mystery for us to comprehend the idea that Christ had a blend of divinity and humanity. How can God and man dwell in one body? This is where I believe faith comes in, to help us grasp this idea.
Another discussion that always comes to the fore when discussing about the nature of Christ, is whether or not Christ could have sinned. But Whidden has made a profound statement on the issue where he said that “the power of temptation is always strengthened by a previous experience in sin.” Thus I believe from this that since Christ overcame all the time, His strength to resist temptation was always high; not like us who have messed up several times. This does not mean however, that Christ cannot identify with persons who struggle with habitual sins. I believe He can identify with all sinners, because he felt the pangs of sin.
Romans 7 &Whidden chapter 7. “Atonement” “O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord….” (Rom.7:24, 25). The apostle Paul states in Romans 7 his great struggle with the law of God and the law of sin. He reasons that in his members there is a continual struggle for supremacy by the sinful man. This struggle will ultimately bring forth fruit unto death. It is his desire however, to overcome in this battle for allegiance. He cries out in the last few verses of this chapter with deep agony of soul, “O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of death? And in response to this heart searching question he responds, “I thank God through Christ our Lord.” Paul acknowledges that Jesus is his only help in his predicament. It is Christ who will work in him both to will and to do of his good pleasure. It is Christ’s mind that will be in him so that he will not become a slave to the law of sin. The Apostle thanks God, and in his expression of thankfulness he expresses something profound that is relevant to 21st century Christians, and that is the sinful desires and inclinations that we encounter as believers in this salvation experience has been atoned for by Christ, but the believer must respond to the saviors great work by daily dying to the old man. This seems to be premise of Whidden in chapter 7 of his book on salvation. Whidden explores Ellen White’s perspective on salvation. In his exposition of the prophetess’s view of atonement I learnt some crucial principles, two of which stands out for me: 1. In Christ great work of atonement there is a healthy balance between his justice and mercy. 2. The atonement theme in the writings of Ellen white has a more cosmic scope rather than a point in history. Praise God atonement did not end at the cross. These two profound points helps us to put Ellen White’s views on atonement into perspective. She did not just see atonement on one dimension, but had a broader view of this most important concept. It is very clear that in her writings we see a God whose justice is not passive, but active, and this is consistent with his love. I agree with Whidden that our concept of God’s wrath is limited. We must recognize God’s wrath is of such that he must finally put an end to those who reject his offers of a just mercy. I appreciate the fact that he places the various views on atonement in the right perspective in the light of the writings of Ellen White. This has helped to clear up many misconceptions. I am happy that atonement did not end at the cross, but Jesus continues this work even in the sanctuary above. And so like Paul I thank God for Jesus my atoning savior.
Romans 7: Paul starts this chapter with an illustration of marriage saying that while we are alive we are under the law but if we are dead (or our spouses) we are free from the Law. Therefore we are dead to the Law so we may belong to one another. Therefore we are released from the law and are not bound to it. The second part of the chapter is on struggles with sin.
Whidden, Woodrow W. “Chapter Seven: The Atonement,” from: Ellen White on Salvation. Berrien Springs: R&H Catalog Service.
Ellen Whites ideas of the Atonement are tied into the great controversy theme as well as justice and mercy. Her beliefs on Atonement are also tied into the concepts of penalty, substitution and satisfaction. The atonement also becomes the model of Christian Character. This is because it models love and forgiveness. The atonement can especially be seen in Gethsemane.
Rodríguez, Ángel Manuel. Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10 http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/Justification1Tm4,10.htm
This article is addressing those who use 1 Timothy 4:10 to justify a universal salvation for those who do not directly reject salvation. The issue lies within the interpretation of the second part of the verse which says “the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.” How can God be the savior of all men, which is distinguished from those who believe? One possibility is that “the word "Savior" means here "Benefactor" in the sense that God provides for the needs of all people.” I find this theory unsatisfactory. Another theory is that it does not match up with the other letters in the New Testament. My favorite explanation is through an understanding of “the phrase "the Savior of all men" on the basis of 1 Tim 2:4, that is to say, that God is the Savior of all in the sense that He desires "all men to be saved." Then, the phrase "specially of those who believe" would designate those who have accepted the offer of salvation by faith in Christ.” This makes the most sense to me. This hermeneutical dilemma could also be solved by translating especially as "that is, in other words".
Earl Reflection # 2 Rom 2, BRI Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification by Larry Kane. And Chapter3 on Ellen White on salvation by Whidden
Upon completion of the reading for week two they are several commonalities within the readings. Chapter 3 of Whidden’s book on Ellen White is speaking about the time leading up to the 1888 and the types of Christians Mrs. White is encountering. Likewise in Romans chapter 2 Paul is speaking about a similar problem in that people are becoming judges of the law and preaching perfectionism while they themselves are unable to live up to their very own expectations they hold others accountable for. In addition to this problem we see sister White confronting Anti- Law extremists who at professing that no one will get to heaven by keeping the law. Mrs. White was quick to defend and challenge this perspective stating that “ Sinners are to be converted from the breaking of God law to the obedience of God ‘s law.” She went on to state that salvation by obedience to the law is impossible, but salvation without obedience is also just as impossible. From these statements one can gather that the conflict between the 1888 committee and the Biblical research institute has be taken place prior to they conception and will continue to take place until rectification takes place by the hand of God himself. As discussed in class I am of the opinion that God’s plan of salvation is so large to ensure equal opportunities of all men and women that it would be impossible for us to interpret scripture to mean only one thing. Our perspectives are limited and thus unable to comprehend the true ramifications behind God plan of salvation and the delicate equilibrium required. I belief rather than exerting our energies trying to disprove others theology we should begin to embrace scripture and God and its ability to mean different things to different people. To much energy is being wasting on discredited each other (becoming judges) that follows Jesus ‘s example given to us in scripture about love. This is even evident in the article written about Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification by Larry Kane. The article in brief summary is basically stating that Jesus sacrifice on the cross, accomplished legal salvation for all sins. From Adam fall in Eden to every sin committed until his return. Thus all man must do is accept this gift of salvation and nothing else is required similar to the arguments stated earlier from Romans 2 and Chapter 3 of Whiddens book. My prayer is that we as the believers of God would come to the realization that we do not have to understand and explain everything to be saved and stop making majors of minors and start respecting and loving each other.
Earl Reflection # 3 Rom 3 Christ Saved the Human Race by: Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, And Chapter 4 on Ellen White on salvation by Whidden
The readings for week number three all dealt with the dilemma of whether or not Jesus’ death on the cross legally saved the entire human race from certain destruction. This topic was extremely import to all because according to Paul in Romans 3: 23-24 we have all sinned and fallen short of Gods’ expectations and are unable to earn of own salvation and it is only by a gift of God we have received another chance. As a result of our failure we have also lost our connection with God. This is evident in the article by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez on writing from Ellen White entitled Christ Saved the Human Race. In this article the point was made that Humans have become alienated from God, as a result of the fall in Eden. The consequence of this failure was disconnection between God and man. Jesus than had to became a living bridge between God and humans because he was both, human and divine. This was Christ's objective act of salvation. He made it possible for human beings to be united with God; he "connected earth with heaven." But only repentant sinners can benefit from that salvation. Which means that yes our sins where paid for but for salvation to take place according to the reading this week a final step must take place prior to our salvation. We must ask God for it and in doing so accept God as our master and savior. Similar to that of the mortgage crisis that is taking place nationally. We have failed to meet the requirements of our mortgages and as a result our loans have fallen in default. But just prior to foreclosure of our property another leader purchases our loans and extends grace by offering lower interest rates and payments and all we have to do is apply for these new terms. This new leader has complete ownership to our loans similar to the price paid on the cross by Jesus. However this new leader does not what to see us lose of properties and extends credit to us that we do not deserve by offering sanctification and salvation as if we have a perfect credit score but similar to a loan we must apply before we can get that loan, Jesus is saying we must ask for forgiveness and except him to receive his loan of Salvation.
Earl Reflection # 4 Rom 4, BRI Comments on 1Timothy 4:10 by: Angel Manuel Rodriguez and Chapter 5 on Ellen White on salvation by Whidden
In reflecting on this weeks reading assignments the issue was raised by Angel Rodriguez about 1 Tim 4:10. Which states: “For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.” The problem raised in this article was the fact that the text implies that they are different types of salvation. The text also implies that to those who believe and ask for this gift of salvation from Jesus they will receive a special gift. Which in turn raised several questions and issues. We have come to understand that God is the savior of all people the Jew and the gentile alike. Because we have all failed and fallen short of the glory of God. But does this text suggest that we are all saved and nothing else is required of us to receive the gift of salvation? Why are so many becoming obsessed and upset about the fact that God would grant salvation to those undeserving of his gift of salvation. The story of Jonah and the parable of the laborers in the vineyard come to mind. Both the laborers and Jonah became upset about God’s love and grace to an undeserving people. But may I beg us to remember that the gift of salvation is not ours to bestow but it belongs to God and God alone. And the requirements of his gift are the least of our trouble and rather we should be more considered with earnest obedience to his will to help aid us receiving this gift of salvation. We should be more concerned according to Mrs. White with being prepared to meet the Lord, hasten of the coming of the Lord by witnessing to the world and stop delaying the Second Advent. Paul addresses a similar situation in regard to the gift of salvation imparted to Abraham and we see this in Romans 4. Where we learn that Abraham was counted righteous prior to any works on his part. Likewise God can do the same for us or anyone he chooses. What really matters is our willingness to serve and obey.
Earl Reflection # 5 Rom 5, BRI Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs by Angel Rodriguez and Chapter 6 on Ellen White on salvation by Whidden
In reflecting on this weeks reading all three sources dealt with the same issue of transference of sin and the extent in which the sin of Adam affected the entire human race. This topic posse some very thought provoking ideas and thus far in my reading peaked the greatest interest. Rodriguez in his article describes the study done on the finding of the 1888 committee on the issue of “in Adam” and “in Christ”. The result of the study show that the finding of the committee we not conclusive. One perspective was that “all of Adam's descendants were in him and when he sinned they also sinned with Adam.” The second perspective is Adam “sin was imputed to all humanity. Because his sin was imputed to all of us we inherit corruption.” My question to these arguments is why then would God all this transference of sin to take place? Why didn’t God stop sin right then and there? If God knew the results and the consequences of sin why allow so many generations to go by before sending Jesus? Did God hope we would rectify the problem our self? Were we capable of making the right decision in the presence of sin? According to Ellen White the corruption of sin left human kind incapable of good and enslaved to it will. Because the conflict of sin in also apparent in Roman 5 which strengthens the argument of the 1888 committee about the doomed human race due to Adam failures. But it also reaffirms that Jesus sacrifice on the cross also affected the human race but for the positive and redeemed us from certain destruction. But even with all this said I keep coming back to the same question why the wait? Why the delay? Did something need to take place before Jesus could rectify the problem of Adam’s sin? I do not know and will continue to search and will appreciate any help on this matter.
Reflection # 6 BRI. The Dynamics of Salvation, Romans 6 and chapter 7 Ellen White on salvation by Whidden
After completing the reading on the dynamics of salvation I cannot help but feel guilty. I understand that I am a sinner and that I was born into sin but I cannot come to terms with the fact that I am consistently inconsistent about my commitment to God. At times, I even shrug off the pleading of the Holy Spirit to follow God calling simply because I take God’s grace for granted. And often forgetting that they is a war taking place of which I am apart. On the other side of the coin I sometimes find myself running ahead of God into battle trying to prove my worth and constantly find myself lacking. The role of the Christians is truly a weird life. We are constantly called to duty, but it is a duty of submissiveness contrary to every thing that we have come to know as sinners on this earth. It has proven to be a life of constant struggle, an uphill battle, swimming against the currents and it is only through a gift we gain success. It is only by God’s gift of salvation can we accomplish a new life in Christ without sin by faith and submission to his will. “Having accepted salvation through faith, we do not now trust in human accomplishment (Gal. 3:1-5). At every point in the new life, from its beginning to its ultimate glorification, we depend entirely on grace received through faith. We are to nurture faith. Growth is not automatic; obedience is not mechanical, ” because of our sinful nature. Rather as Paul says we must become slaves to righteousness and give up our sinful desires. Because the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord.
Earl Reflection # 7 BRI. How Perfect Is "Perfect" Or Is Christian Perfection Possible?, Romans 7 and chapter 8 Ellen White on salvation by Whidden
Perfection! What does it really mean in regard to the Christian life? Is it possible for a born again Christian to live a sinless life? These issues have plagued the hearts of many leaving unanswered questions for decades. This week’s reading by Edward Heppenstall helped us take a closer look at these issues. As if the Christian struggle was not already difficult enough we have some who are setting what I believe to be unattainable expectations about living a sinless life. Causing many believers mature and young to become spiritually frustrated with the progress or inability to accomplish their goals. According to the author, a "perfect" Christian is one whose heart and mind are permanently committed to Christ, cannot be moved Noah, Abraham, and Job were all declared to be "perfect" men. Yet the history of their lives shows that they were far from being sinless. So I ask again what does it mean to be perfect? My understanding of this is simply it is when we have a never ending appetite for Jesus and unquenchable thirst for his presence in our life it is when we never cease to take our eyes off of Jesus our savior and redeemer. I am in complete agreement with the example given by Heppenstall in saying; “Peter sank in the waves the moment he took his eyes off Christ. He sank because he had the tendency to sink in water. The only thing that kept him walking on top of the sea was the power of Christ momentarily exercised counteracting the gravitational power to pull him down.” The scripture even warns us against those who claim to be sinless and perfect saying that if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. Even Paul speaks of the trials of doing the very thing that he hates because of the sin that dwells within. And it is only through Jesus sacrifice we are made whole. Whidden in this weeks reading speaks pertaining to the nature of Christ and trinity. Stating that the only person to have been born to this earth and live a sinless life was Jesus. The author goes on to state that Jesus was affected by sin but was not infected by sin like the rest of us. And this is why Jesus was able to resist the temptations of the devil. Whatever the reason I think we need to come to a clear doctrinal understanding about perfection and help this already tough journey a little more bearable.
During the course of this class my mind has been stretched, twisted, and chopped. In my following posts I'm sure you will be able to pick up on some of my frustration. As I have been reading the articles and the book it seems impossible for me to make intelligent comments on a theme that we are told (by Ellen White)that we will be studying throughout eternity. So what will come is my very humble opinions of what I understand and believe at this present time.
Why study salvation? For all of us, I'm sure there have been times where we have questioned our own salvation. It was refreshing to read in Whidden's book the personal struggles that Ellen White had regarding her own salvation. How many of us have tried to explain to church members that just going to church on Sabbath is not enough. That believing that they are a "good person" doesn't count. So many of our members worry about whether they are saved or not. Romans chapter 1 clearly portrays the sinful condition in which we all find ourselves in. What hope do we have? Are we saved? Are we lost? Do we need to know? The apostle John thought so, in 1 John 5:13 "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." John says, you should know that you are saved. What a difference it would make in our churches (or could I even say within our own lives) if we had the assurance of salvation.
Read: Chapters 1 & 2 in Whidden Romans 1 & "Adam and the Human Race"
In Larry Kane's article "Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal 'Legal' Justification", he responds to a key belief promoted by the 1888 study committee. The belief being that Christ provided objective justification for the world through His death on the Cross. In relationship to that Kane also addresses the issue of the "in Christ" motif and also the implications of universalism.
This article (along with almost all the others that I read) states the major differences between the BRI and the 1888 committee. I have struggled with how to comment on each article seperately because to me they seem to overlap so much.
The way I understood it was the major difference between the two opionions is that the 1888 committee believes that when Christ died on the cross He provided salvation for the entire world. According to Kane, the salvation provided only beomes valid when the sinner chooses to accept the gift of salvation through faith. If a sinner does not respond through faith the gift of salvation does not apply.
I have a major problem with this view based on Romans 2:14-15 when Paul talking about Jews and Gentiles wrote, "Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even thoug they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written of their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them." According to my understanding Paul is saying that when a person (in this case a Gentile) lives their life according to what they believe to be right, God views that in the same light as someone (a Jew) who has had the privilege of knowing the law and following it. In other words God will judge according to the light that has been given.
Kane and the BRI stress that in order to be saved a person must confess faith in what Christ did for them. What if that person has never heard of Christ? How can that person confess faith in someone he/she has never even heard of? Will that person be lost?
I have waited for some author to bring this quote into the discussion, "Among the heathen are those who worship God ignorantly, those to whom the light is never brought by human instumentality, yet they will not perish. Though ignorant of the written law of God, they have heard His voice speaking to them in nature, and have done the things that the law required. Their works are evidence that the Holy Spirit has touched their hearts, and they are recognized as the children of God." (Desire of Ages p.638)
Will these individuals be in heaven because they have confessed faith in Christ as Kane has defined it? What about babies who will be placed in mother's arms at the resurrection?
In my opinion Kane's arguments (as well as the other articles --so far) have not answered that question.
Read: Romans 2, "Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal 'Legal' Justification" and Whidden chapter 3.
Whidden's chapter, "James and Ellen: Their Compelling Personal Testimonies" gives an interesting perspective on the "humanity" of Ellen White. Unfortunately for many today Ellen White has become some sort of "saint" within the minds of many church members. We can forget that she was very much human with her own struggles of doubt and depression much like we suffer. I would encourage any to read the 5 volume biography on her life done by Arthur White (if you haven't already done so).
Whidden's chapter would help anyone who has struggled with the issue of perfection in their own life.
Read:Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10 "James and Ellen: Their Compelling Personal Testimonies" & Romans 4
Read: Whidden, chapter 5, Romans 5, & "Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs"
My knowledge of the 1888 committee is pretty limited. I do have some knowledge of Jack Sequira (pardon the spelling)and I don't know how close the two are related. Anyway I have heard Sequira talk about the "in Christ" motif. Now I realize I could have misunderstood his comments, but I never got the idea from him that somehow we were all physically or in any other sense present in Adam or in Christ. (I want to listen to the tape again) What he does talk about is in Hebrews 7:9 where it talks about Levi being "in Abraham" when Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek. Hebrews 7:9 states, "One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor." Was Levi physically present in Abraham when he gave a tithe? No, but Paul clearly is making a connection between the ancestor and the decendant. There is a clear connection between Adam and all of humanity as there is with Christ and all of humanity. The results of Adam's sin are universal the results of Christ death are universal.
Honestly, Romans chapter 8 is challenging to me. When I really ask about living for the flesh or the Spirit; I find that too often I am living my life for the temporal rather than being concerned about the Kingdom of God. I yearn to be filled with God’s Spirit and to be more passionate about what matters to God. I know that this is a lifelong journey and that it is not necessarily easy. I have fallen into the trap of viewing pastoral work as a job rather than a ministry. I am praying that God will restore to me my first love of Him. Let us each experience what it means to live according to the Spirit. God’s foreknowledge in verse 29 still leaves me wondering what it means.
I agree with the BRI article that says it is the results that passed on to humankind, not the sin itself. It does not make sense to me how people could be realistically in Adam when he sinned. This sentence caught my attention: “As Adventists we do believe that the sin of Adam weakened human nature making our sinning unavoidable.” It seems that in many cases Adventists teach contrary to this. We are often brought up with the attitude of pull yourself up by your bootstraps. You can overcome if you try hard enough. I think that our inability to overcome with God’s help is an important message because we rely on ourselves too much.
I appreciate the balance that Ellen White had when she dealt with the nature of Christ. Since she emphasized sometimes the uniqueness of Christ at times and that Christ identified with us at other times; it seems people can take those statements and try to push an agenda. The thought made sense to me that Christ did not experience every same temptation that we face, especially since he did not deal with habitual sin. Rather Christ faced the same principles as us (the temptation to depend on self rather than on God’s power). After all one definition of sin is “what is not from faith” - Romans 14:23.
Reflections on Fundamental Beliefs of SDA; The nature of Christ and Salvation; Romans VII The 25th fundamental belief is regarding the Second Coming of Christ. If we were to ask a group of believers what would be the reason for anticipation of Christ’s return, I’m sure there would be varied answers. His coming is considered a blessed hope. Titus 2:13 exclaims: Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ. To many who have lost loved ones it would be a blessed hope of reunion. Romans 8:19 Paul in his controversy between good and evil writes: For the good that I would, I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Many who are tired of sin and evil long for the time when evil will be done away and sin will be no more. If we truly believe that Jesus will come soon, while we are in the 163 year marking of the “great disappointment,” what might believers awaiting Christ’s return be praying for? 1. Pray for Christ’s soon return. 2. Outpouring of the Holy Spirit 3. God to refine and purify us from earthliness 4. Unsaved loved ones 5. Singleness of purpose 6. Help us to be soul winners for Christ 7. Our will may be aligned with God’s will 8. Live boldly for Christ 9. Make our calling and election sure 10. Revival and reformation 11. Repentance 12. To be made aware of un- confessed sins 13. Protection 14. Become one with Christ and fellowman 15. Increase our Faith Remember these and add others to your list. May God bless!
“Some Problems with Legal Universal Justification” Angel Manuel Rodriguez
“Universal legal justification tends to see faith as a threat to Christ's objective work of salvation. Faith is almost perceived or viewed as a meritorious act that has no role to play in God's legal justification of the human race.” It seems as if, as Dr. Hanna has pointed out in class, the BRI gets hung up on “splitting hairs” in response to the 1888 committee, etc. This is one of those cases that is more about arguing the metaphor and vocabulary, and less about doing theology relevant to the world today.
Chapter 9 on Ellen White on Salvation
“Ellen White taught that our acceptance with Christ is based totally on the merits of His life and death, which are legally, judicially accounted to us. It is not based on His death accounted to us for forgiveness and His life imparted to us so that we can make our own contribution to justification.” I wonder what all of the “Last Generation” people would have to say to this? It is clear, that EGW thought and taught that Christ is the one that vindicates humans, based on who he is, not the other way around.
Romans 8
“And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.” It sickens me to think that some misquote this verse to read, “And we know that all things work together for good for those who love God.” This has been the cause of a lot of bad theology in many churches. How could someone interpret the text like this when thousands upon thousands of innocent children die every day due to not having enough food to eat? While many of us sit rich and comfortable in the U.S. Does God favor us more than those little innocent kids because we “love Him”? Instead, it is nice to read what Paul actually meant, that God can bring light to any situation, for those that love Him. This, the true Biblical statement is far less problematic.
How Perfect Is "Perfect" Or Is Christian Perfection Possible?
Edward Heppenstall
This article explains very well the issues of perfection in Christian life. I think that every growing Christian face the dilemma of been a failure, trying to be perfect, it happen to me, there was a time when though that I need to be rebaptized, because my constant failure in my relationship with God, but now I realize that those years were the most fruitful years of my spiritual live. I was walking with Jesus not knowing what perfection was and what He wanted from me.
Understanding this message may remove a big burden of any Christian life because so many Christians still battle with their human nature without knowing what really Jesus demand from them. It is interest to think that none of the Bible great heroes didn't have sinless nature, they were called perfect because they trust God all time. Is not what we can do to look good is what Jesus did for us and still doing in us.
Articles Read: “Why Did Jesus Die? How God Saves Us” George W. Reid Romans 8 Ellen White On Salvation, Chapter 8.
Whidden shows how closely tied to her views of salvation was Ellen White’s views on the nature of Christ. He admits that this subject is the most difficult he will deal with in the book. Christ’s nature is indeed a mystery and we have to be careful about being dogmatic on issues that are not made clear in the scripture.
In one sense Christ had a prelapsarian nature and in another sense he had a postlapsarian nature. As Whidden admits, there is an obvious “balanced tension,” “dialectic”, or “paradox” between Ellen White’s views of the “sinful” and “sinless” nature of Christ. At the same time Christ was unique. He wasn’t fully like us because he was referred to as “that holy thing” and humans are “born and shaped in iniquity.” So Christ can fully identify with us without being exactly liked us.
It is interesting that the debate on the nature of Christ within the SDA Church often resort to Ellen White’s writings instead of centering on the Bible because scripture doesn’t give us a dogmatic answer to our questions. There is a point beyond which we cannot go because we are dealing with a divine mystery and in these cases silence is eloquence.
I think that we can find similar tensions in Christ’s roles as a Priest, Sacrifice and King within the sanctuary motif. How can Jesus be all three at the same time?
Reid discusses the view of Christ’s death as a ransom for our sins. Who did He pay this ransom to and why is the moral view of the atonement as purported by Peter Abelard not enough to explain Christ’s death?
He discusses how Jesus’ death on the cross was more than an expression of God’s love for us. If this just demonstrated God’s love so that we may respond to that love then we would have a very shallow view of sin. Sin meant a broken law and justice demanded that a price be paid. So the cross was more than an expression of love but of justice as well.
But there definitely wasn’t any idea of “appeasement” as was common to heathen religions and gods. Jesus didn’t die to appease an angry God. In fact, the Bible clearly tells us that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. According to Reid, “God undertakes to bridge the gulf. He substitutes Himself to demonstrate the changeless nature of His law, and performs all that's needed. Christ becomes the divine sacrifice, His cross an altar (see 1 Cor. 5:7). In amazement we stand aside, watching as He takes it up in our behalf. He "gave himself up for us" (Eph. 5:2) and "offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins" (Heb. 10:12). God "sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins" (1 John 4:10).”
In Romans 8, we find Paul showing the consequences of us being “in Christ”. We are now a slave to the Spirit instead of being slaves to the flesh. The law which was once our enemy now becomes our friend. There is “now no condemnation for those who are in Christ”.
It’s interesting that even after Paul shows that that the newly converted person is no longer condemned he still has to live to the spirit and not according to the flesh. So there is growth and “maintenance” involved, not just a one time experience. But we are given the assurance that we can be more than conquerors through Christ who loves us.
So we are indeed saved at acceptance of Jesus, are being saved through the process of character building and will be saved “for in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.” (v. 24, 25)
Dale Baker Justification by Faith Before 1888 BRI: “Justification and the Cross” Romans 8
The topic of justification has been a topic of much debate over the century. Many questions and discussion has arising about it. Questions arise such as, are we saved by faith alone or by work, or are we saved by both? But it is vital for us to realize that faith is to be sustained by work. We are saved to work. By this I mean that we are saved, and we demonstrate that we are saved by our works. Furthermore, we are saved from our sins and not in them.
Often times one may wonder why he or she is not been a over comer in his or her life, but such an individual need to understand that it is a looking away from self that is needed to be done constantly. Thus such person has to constantly look to Christ for strength to stay on the Christian pathway. This is due to the fact that it is only Christ merits that can truly justify us. His merit makes up for our deficiencies.
As a result of the fact that Christ merit makes up for our deficiency we see that God is more than willing to forgive us of all our sins. Infact Rom. 8: 1 tells us that there is no condemnation for those that are in Christ. In Romans 8 it reveals the clearly that Christ has given us His divine grace efficaciously. Thus, what we need to do is to assess it by faith, and experience Him.
Romans 8 ... There is no condmnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. So what does it mean to be "in Christ"? Does this mean that we go on sinning...because now there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus. I've had church members tell me it doesn't matter if they continually sin because they can't be condemned, but this is not what Paul is saying...he continues to unpack this thought with the rest of the chapter especially the first 11 verses. Paul's message is that there is no condemnation to the person who lives to the Spirit and not to the flesh. So what does it mean to live to the Spirit? What does it mean to live to the flesh? Clearly Paul contrasting the two...so the inference that is clearly made is that there is condemnation for the person who lives to the flesh. Paul says, to live to the flesh cannot please God (verse 8)...but that the person that lives to the Spirit, has life and peace with God (verse 6). Paul says that some set their minds to the flesh and the things of the flesh...so is it possible that we often live to the flesh as supposed Christians, all the while many pastors tell paritioners that it's alright to continue to sin. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I believe that we need to strive for it in Christ...by living to the Spirit, by setting our minds on the things of the Spirit...Why we have models of salvation that minimize God's hatred for sin blows me away. We must understand that the battle is fought in the mind and the heart...may we set our hearts and minds on the things that God's Holy Spirit wouldn't be grieved away with...then we are in Christ...then there is no condemnation for us. Blessings!
This week Romans 8:31-39 spoke to me in a new way. Before, I always read the passage that nothing can separate us from God’s love and somehow never really stopped to think how this practically applies to my life. It’s almost as if I subconsciously thought “Well of course nothing can separate of from the love of God. I mean come on, even the wicked are still loved by God and they are warring against Him.”
In other words, I viewed the passage as nothing real special because I believed the promise was true for believers as well as non-believers. After all, isn’t it true that God will feel an aching spot for all of eternity in His heart for every person that He died for, but that didn’t accept His salvation? Of course, God will continue to suffer for all of eternity because some of His creatures are not there with Him when He made ample provision for them. I know this. I have shed tears over the thought of it. But after awhile of knowing it and having it repeated over and over, the tears stop coming.
This week the passage spoke to me in a new way. The Apostle Paul had suffered much for Christ. He had been beaten, ship wrecked, slandered, lied to, betrayed, and the list goes on. Not to mention having to deal with his own internal struggles with the memories of massacring the early Christians before he was converted. Sure, he realized Christ had forgiven him, but even when Christ forgives you, you still have the memories of your past sins—this is usually true, although sometimes the memories can be blocked. The point is that it is more often the case that when Christ forgives you for your sin, you still have the memory of the sin. It has scarred your mind. And the devil likes to try and resurrect these memories as often as possible to try to bring regret and discouragement and doubt regarding God’s promise of forgiveness. Having gone through some suffering of my own during the last couple of months, I couldn’t help but wonder if during any of Paul’s trials and sufferings if he ever feared or worried about messing up again. After all, he thought he was following God the first time (when he was still Saul) all the while he was actually killing God’s followers!
What stuck out to me this week was that nothing can separate of from God’s love in the sense that nothing will keep God from pursuing us. We may mess up, but nothing will keep God back from coming after the lost sheep and seeking to bring us back. The hope that came to me through this text is that if we keep getting back up again, there is nothing that is going to keep us out of heaven. The just man falls seven times but he rises back up again. This passage sheds light on what I believe Paul was speaking about in Romans 8. God is such a God that He will walk through hell with you and bring you safely through on the other side if you will simply cling to Him in all things.
You may fall, but take back hold of Jesus Christ and keep on going because nothing can separate you from His love. He will always let you get back up. It is the wicked that fall into calamity. They never get back up. Why? Because they give up. They have no interest in getting back up. They love their sin and they love to wallow in it, they are content with staying right where they are.
I take great comfort knowing that my God is big and powerful enough to go through anything with me. I take comfort in knowing that not even angels or principalities and powers could separate me from God’s relentless love. This is beautiful.
Name: Desmond C. Haye Article: Chapter 8 “Ellen White and Salvation,” Romans 8; How Perfect Is "Perfect" Or Is Christian Perfection Possible? By Edward Heppenstall
The nature of Christ has been a controversial subject for centuries. It has been the object of much misunderstanding by many in Adventist circles. How should we really understand Christ’s nature? What was Ellen White’s perspective on His nature? These questions have perplexed many for decades, and Whidden, seems to put this complex issue into perspective. He argues firstly, that this subject is a difficult and challenging one for any faithful student of scripture. It is Whidden’s belief that Ellen White was a firm believer in the full deity of Christ; despite the many Arian ministers of the church in her day. But what can we make of Mrs. White’s statements on Christ nature and salvation? One thing is very clear from my reading and that is Ellen White’s understanding of the nature of Christ evolved over time, and as her relationship with God deepened, she came to a fuller and clearer understanding of Christ human and divine nature. She believed that Christ nature was “vigorously presented as a mysterious blending, or union, of humanity and deity.” She has baffled many by certain expressions she employed in her description of Christ uniqueness. Ellen White made this declaration of Christ, ”His spiritual nature was free from every taint of sin.” What exactly did she mean by this statement? According to Whidden, He (Christ) was free from sin in the sense that He was affected by sin but not infected. This chapter has helped to clarify a few rudimentary issues that I had on the subject of Christ’s nature. I am very impressed with how the author carefully and succinctly dealt with this controversial issue. While I do not truly understand all the intricacies of Christ’s nature, I am aware that he became sin for us, so that through his sacrifice we can have life. It is even more encouraging to note that I don’t need to have a perfect knowledge of his nature to be saved. I can come boldly to Him without condemnation. This seems to be the perspective of Paul in Romans 8, where he discusses that the one who comes to Christ will not be condemned. This chapter presents a theology on salvation that is second to none. It helps the reader and seeker to understand that so long as we come to Christ with sincerity of heart and mind, there will be no condemnation. This assurance for those who are estranged is great news. It will lift the heart of every seeker of Christ. Yes, we don’t have to reach a point in our lives when we are sinless as some declare perfection to be; all we need to do is come with a deep desire to be changed and He will help us to be more like him. He Heppenstall’s article seems to synchronize well with the viewpoint that the believer who comes to Christ will not be condemned; but can be made perfect through his grace. He sought to clarify the misconception that is so often circulated regarding perfection. He expresses the point that perfection is not a point to reach , neither does it mean “sinlessness,” rather it is a daily dying to sin, and maturing into the likeness of Christ. Daily, and continually the counteracting presence of the Holy Spirit will enable the believer to live the victorious life. This will become inherent in the life of the follower, and moment by moment we will become like Christ, changed from glory to glory.
Romans 8: The first section of this chapter talks about life in the Spirit by being set free from sin and death. It is interesting this section talks about being set free from the law of sin and death but talks about obedience in the law of the Spirit. It seems those who follow their own desires have not been set free. This freedom seems very counterintuitive to what I think of as freedom. The chapter also discusses our future glory and God meeting our needs. It also talks about conquering through persecution and tough times.
Whidden, Woodrow W. “Chapter Eight: The Nature of Christ and Salvation,” from: Ellen White on Salvation. Berrien Springs: R&H Catalog Service.
The nature of Christ is tied to Ellen White’s understanding of salvation. She believed that Christ had to become a man in order to meet us where we were. She believed that Jesus was fully God (Divine) yet her views on Christ’s humanity are irregular and contradictory. Also an understanding of Christ’s humanity of pre or post fall is not sufficient. It is interesting the author does not find it necessary for Jesus to have a sinful predisposition.
Rodríguez, Ángel Manuel. Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/In%20Christ-Comments.htm
This article covers the 1888 understanding of the phrase “in Adam”. At times the 1888 Study Committee understood the phrase to mean all of Adam’s decedents. This is Augustinian and comes from an interpretation of Gen 2:7. The second understanding of “in Adam” are those who sinned like Adam, Heb 7:9-10. Rodríguez writes, “The fundamental issue is the one of individual responsibility. Only individuals who actually exist are responsible for their own sins and in some cases for the sins of others. A seed is not a morally responsible agent; not even the "seed" of a human being. It appears to me that the meaning of the phrase "in Adam" in the thinking of the members of the 1888 Study Committee remains elusive.” He goes on to talk of “in Christ”. I personally do not see the problem of a “seed” that passes sin since some sins are genetic (alcoholism). The issue I think is not the passing on of a sin-nature but being guilty of sin you didn’t commit.
Earl Reflection #8 Rom 8, BRI Adam and Justification and the Cross, Ch 9 Ellen white on Salvation
In reflecting on the readings for the week we continued looking at the consequences of sin and the gift of salvation in Angel Rodriguez article on “Justification and the Cross.” This article was very detailed and precise comparing and contrasting different outlooks in regards to the introduction of sin and death to the Earth as they pertain to sacrificial gift of salvation by Jesus. Rodriguez in his article refuted the fact that we the (human race) was present in Adam when he first disobeyed Gods command. He goes on to state the severity of the problem and it universal outcomes, but disagrees with the 1888 committee about the term “in Adam”. The author goes on to say that like sin salvation through grace also has a universal impact however, “grace is not an enslaving power that enters into the world and makes all people subject to its power. This is rather a characteristic of sin and death. Grace offers itself to humans as a gift from God and calls sinners to become members of its kingdom, to allow themselves to be ruled by it.” Instead he writes that; Paul is stating that as a result of Adam's sin, all are born spiritually dead, unable to resist the power of sin by themselves, making sin inescapable for all and thus explaining universal impact of Adam’s sin on mankind. But my concern with this topic of sin and salvation is the origination of sin and how it managed to become so powerful that we had not chance to withstand its’ appeal. And why is it that God allowed sin to create such havoc in the world. Was this part of the original plan? Regardless, of sin I praise God that I am still able to be justified which brings us to the chapter on Ellen White by Whidden. In this chapter he took a closer look at justification and the different models and principles around the time leading up to the 1888 committee. Highlighting Mrs. White perspective of justification by faith and works and that Jesus saves us from sin and not in sin. So in closing we can see that our works are thus directly correlated to our faith and thus to God. This is why when we read from Romans Paul says “who can separate us from the love of God?” Only we can separate ourselves because if “God is for us who can be against us.”
I read the article “Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10” by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez. The first time that I read the article I was impressed with the position that he took. I read it again a few days later and began to see the assumptions that he came to the text with and the specific response to the 1888 group. He believes that you are saved or not saved there is no middle ground. Which I happen to believe myself, but in the context of the Doctrine of Salvation and other Biblical texts a person probably wouldn’t come to that understanding on 1Timothy 4:10 alone. Granted it is only an article on 1 Timothy 4:10 and not on the Doctrine of Salvation, but it is important I believe to know the assumptions of the person studying the text. He makes that point himself in paragraph five where he states, “There is no need to introduce in the text the idea of universalism or of a legal universal salvation which has no immediate effect on the final destiny of the individual.” In other words other people have come to this same text and interpreted something different than he did, most likely a big part of their interpretation was their assumptions. He further explains that if we use the correct interpretation of the text, which he believes he has done, the correct interpretation/his interpretation (which could be correct) takes care of any problems (referring to universalism) in the text which I think is a rebuttal of the 1888 group (even though they don’t claim universalism). This article was a good look into the ongoing debate of who God will eventually save, everyone or just those who believe in Him.
Week 8 Submission Most of what I have to comment on this week is not from the article I read which is “Justification in Romans 3:21-24” by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez. It seemed a little redundant. It is just a restatement of all the things that he has said in previous articles. There were some wonderful points in Whidden’s book though. The two quotes I liked the most were, “Yet if the gospel of justification by faith is taught the way it should be, it may sometimes sound like cheap grace nonsence that makes God’s law of none effect. The reason for this seeming perversion is that none of the works of obedience manifest by even ‘true believers’ (Ellen White’s term, not Eric Hoffer’s) could ever have saving merit.” Also, “One of the most forceful expressions of this close relationship between law and grace, or true faith and obedience, was given in her summation of the experience of John Wesley following his Aldersgate experience: ‘He continued his strict and self-denying life, not now as the ground, but the result of faith; not the root, but the fruit of holiness.’ (GC 256)” I will have to apoligize for what I am about to say, but I hate the term cheap grace. Grace was not cheap. It cost God everything that He had to redeem us and guess what He does give it to us for FREE. All we have to do is accept it and by doing that we accept Him and His Lordship over our lives. OK now that I am past my pet peave, I find these statements profound. The difference in whether or not we are in God’s plan of salvation is where our works come from. Is it God changing us in His time and with His power or is it you and me trying to change things on our own because we think that is what God wants us to do. By the way I believe that what might be a sin for me may not be a sin for you. It all comes down to what might be coming between God and me. That same thing may not be an issue for you. We have to be careful telling people what they should and shouldn’t do because we don’t know what God is doing in their lives. We may discourage people instead of encouraging them.
Romans 5 Ellen White Chapter 5 Salvation, the Great Controversy Theme, Closing Events, and the Law BRI - Comments on 1Timothy 4:10
Paul in Romans 5 discussed that God has his own timetable and that He does things in due time “that while we were without strength… and were still sinners Christ died for us.” That his death has resulted into our justification to all who believe, he calls this grace. This grace known also as a “gift from God” redeemed us from the sinful nature we’re in through Adam’s sin, but through the obedience of Jesus everyone who chooses to accept his gift of grace results into justification. The struggle is in the choosing to accept the gift of justification or not.
The same flow of thought was discussed in Ellen White’s writings and theology. The doctrine of salvation is so important to her that it took the central arching theme.She used every effort to lift up Christ and the purpose of the saving act of the Trinity. All the lies and accusations of Satan were refuted and disproved. The Law of God upheld so highly to say that it’s the reflection of His will. An emphasis on the call for a balance between law and grace, faith and works, justice and mercy, and a closer look into the controversy of God's character versus Satan's deceptions, being the very heart of her understanding of practical godliness and the doctrine of salvation. For her, obedience, associated with a just and loving acceptance, is possible. Again it’s a matter of choice.
Manuel Rodriguez Miguel disputed the idea of being “legally saved subject to acceptance of salvation” first and foremost because it’s not Biblically sound and correct, secondly, the text itself doesn’t support the idea, thirdly, the offer of salvation was for all and not only to some. He closed his argument saying: “On the cross God made provision for the salvation of every human being but only those who through faith accept the gift of salvation through Christ will be saved. Christ's substitutionary atonement is universal in its extent but, because of the freedom God has given to humans, it is limited in its salvific effect.” Therefore, salvation is by choice even though it given freely as a gift.
Reflections #6 Romans 6 - EGW - Sin, the Human Condition, and Salvation BRI – The Dynamics of Salvation
Paul emphasized the importance of a continued experience of salvation that those who received the gift of salvation by grace through faith must put into action their claims of freedom from being slaves to sin to being salve to righteousness. Real life application of the freedom from sin is important for Paul to see happening among the believers to manifest the fruits of holiness which ends to everlasting life, all being done in Christ Jesus.
For Ellen White, sin was defined as both acts of transgressing God's will (1SM 320) and a condition of depravity that involves inherited sinful "propensities," "inclinations," "tendencies," and a "bent" to sin (that is, inbred or indwelling sin) (5BC 1128; Ed 29; IHP 195). Despite of the fact that we by nature are sinful and still would be in such a condition until Glorification at the second coming of Jesus, God takes the initiative to awaken us to the truth of our helpless condition to trigger the receiver to exercise “the will power” whether to surrender it to God or not for justification, sanctification or glorification. The rightful exercise of the freedom of choice is what marks the line between Ellen White and the Calvinist. Total dependence on Jesus as a matter of choice making this event like a covenant where both parties agree to do as agreed. In her very words, Ellen wrote: “we need Jesus to declare us "perfect" all the way to the gates of glory.” Our depravity or propensity to sin doesn’t stop us from making a choice. The fact that Christ empowers us tells that no one can declare him/herself perfect except by Christ. The dynamics of salvation forever center in the righteousness of God and His Son, according to the BRI article, and not to forget the work of the Holy Spirit, too. From guilt to justification, reconciliation, sanctification, glorification and eventual progressive changes in life by walking the newness of life in Christ through the Holy Spirit was all and still is God’s own initiative and our action is through our responses. Only God can save and only the cross made it possible. Not even faith which is God’s gift can save but it’s the vehicle whereby we can receive salvation from Jesus’ death on the cross. From condemnation to glorification to consummation is all God’s initiative and the choice is ours to make.
Reflection Paper on The Nature of Christ and Salvation Ellen White as a Theologian Romans VIII It is impossible for man to understand the concept of the Incarnation of Christ fully. To contemplate how He who was from the beginning, through the power of the Holy Spirit, who was also from the beginning, overshadowed Mary and the Christ child began to live in the womb of human flesh is mind boggling, nevertheless believable. It is indeed believable because the Bible says that the angel said unto her(Mary), The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall over-shadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.Luke 1:35 We need more faith to believe the inspired Biblical writings and the inspired Spirit of Prophecy writings. Ellen White made this statement: “If there were no mystery, what need would there be for faith?” O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? Or who hath been his counselor? Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen Rom.11:33-36 Christ took upon Him our nature and overcame sin, that by taking His nature we might overcome sin. He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh, but lived a sinless life. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom.8:1 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.Rom. 8:34 Theological Discernment(EG White) "Inspiration is to apply to the thoughts of the writers."
This week: Romans 8, Justification and the Cross Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, Chapter 8- Nature of Christ and Salvation. As I read Romans 8 and reflected on the issue of salvation, I just have to remind myself that the law is our mirror which gives us a candid reflection of ourselves. The reason I was compelled to do this is simply because if one does not understand the theology of Paul one can easily misconstrue the matter of law as it relates to salvation. This can be done by joining millions to say that the law has been abolished. As the Apostle emphasizes that once we accept Christ we have life in the Spirit. He reiterates this point by expressing, “If Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also, through his Spirit that dwells in you. 12 Consequently, brothers, we are not debtors to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die, but if by the spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God. Romans 8:10-14.” Indeed those who are led by the Spirit are alive and are children of God. To me the mystery of the incarnation is here highlighted in Christ sacrifice for our lives. And rhetorically and compelled to ask, “how can Christ who oversaw and was involved in creation of our forefather (Adam), saw Mary’s birth and her descendants’ birth and still became her son. Certainly, for a sinful finite mind its complex to ponder; for a fallen human being it appears to be the greatest impossibility, but considering He is God- with God all things are possible! In Ellen White’s Doctrine of Salvation there appears to be the notion that God knew the plan before the foundation of the earth, so that, should man sin provision will be made for his reconciliation. In the latter part of Roman’s 8 Paul’s rhetoric when discussing what might be able to separate us from the Father’s love is not at all suggesting that we are once saved always saved. On the contrary, Paul is emphasizing the enormity of the love and sacrifice God made for humankind. The adequacy of the provision makes it possible for us to find salvation- it is contingent upon us to choose!
Jeff Carlson Doctrine of Salvation Comment #2 -"Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal 'Legal' Justification" by Larry J. Kane -Romans 3 -Widden Chapter 3
The interesting thing for me reading this article was how it really seems that Mr. Kane is fighting a strawman...very passionatly! I can't imagine that if he was to actually ask one of the 1888 MSC people that they would say that they believe that the entire world has been justified in the way that he is claiming. I cant imagine that they are saying that every person has been saved which is what the author is fighing. Of course everyone has to exercise faith to experience the benefits of salvation.
I think if they were to sit down in a room and talk it out and actually listen to each other they would realize that they are probabely saying the exact same thing and merely using different words. I say this because, like I said earlier, I cant imagine that the 1888 people are saying that we are all saved without exercising faith. If they are than they truly dont have biblical support. But if they are saying that the act of justification has been carried out and that each of us has been given the gift of justification and that the only thing standing in the way of our receiving the benefits of this gift is our choice, then they seem to be agreed. If we dont accept the gift it is still sitting there. It doesnt suddenly appear when we accpet it. The author goes on to say: "The loving basis of God's overture is expressed in Romans 5:8-10 where Paul observes that "God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us [the ungodly]" and "when we were [God's] enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son." The same truth is given in the well-known John 3:16-19."
He quotes the verse, "while we were still sinners Christ reconciled us..." Now does that mean that every sinner is in a perfect relationship with God now? Of course not. But Mr. Kane doesnt seem to see the disconnect here. It seems that we can have something provided - justification, reconciliation - and still not be receiving the benefits. Maybe he needs a bigger model:)
Widden points out that Ellen White, later in her life, began to make a bigger emhesis on Lutherian justification rather than a Methadist understanding. This might have been due to her research for The Great Controversy. She seems to have done this due to her fear that we as SDAs were leaning too far in the direction of legalism. It would be a shame that we would leave legalism and run right into another way of missing the beauty of what God has done for us in Jesus - tearing apart the words until the idea they feably represent is lost in the semantic battle.
I think that proper theology is very important. The false doctrine of hell has created more athiests than we could ever imagine. However, we need to be careful that we are not fighting an idea that we really do agree with but is merely expressed in a way we are not accustomed with.
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden” (Romans 9:18) is troublesome to me. But not so much when I look at it in the wider context. God chose Israel as a special people to show God to the world. The Gentiles received God by faith and obtained righteousness. This seems to be the main issue throughout the chapter when Paul concludes in Romans 9:30-33 with this thought. Comparing this chapter with 2 Peter 3:9 I find that God wants every person to come to repentance. When God hardens someone to make a point, it may be because they have already hardened their own heart. It reminds me of where Paul tells the Corinthians to hand over the immoral brother to Satan so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord (1 Corinthians 5:5).
In the BRI article I appreciate that the article starts out by saying that justification and judgment have a both/and rather than an either/or relationship in Paul’s writings. The article seems to say that Romans 3 proves that the judgment of God is over, that he is proven faithful. I do believe that God is faithful, but I still don’t think that all the questions will be answered until sin is destroyed and we can ask God some of our “why” questions. How can we answer this question for someone who does not believe in Revelation from God or in the validity of the Bible? I thought this statement in BRI was interesting, “judgment according to works guards the doctrine of the justification of the ungodly from meaning the justification of ungodliness.” This is coming at the issue from a different angle than I am used to thinking about it. This and the pillar of justification by faith seem to balance each other out. I have seen people go off the deep end when they are too focused on one aspect and exclude the other. It is a good idea to present the tension between judgment and justification in the context of salvation history. The stories of people’s lives show how this tension operates in real life.
Justification and the Cross Ángel Manuel Rodríguez
As the article specify Adam open the door to sin come through the world, so it is a fact that sin exits before Adam. Sin came accompanied with death and with the door open it pass to all human kind, that’s why every human inherit death as consequence of sin. Also is made clear that is not the Adam sin what we inherit, but because his sin now we all sin and is made clear that we die also because our own sins and not for Adam sin. As I understood reading this article it appear to be that human nature is individual looks like is not connected with Adam in this matter, so in that case we are separate from Adam therefore we are responsible for ours acts, Adam play the role of permitting slavery to sin in human race. Angel Manuel Rodriguez said; “As Adventists we do believe that the sin of Adam weakened human nature making our sinning unavoidable. We have also taught that because of Adam's sin we exist in a state of separation from God, in condemnation and needing redemption. Because he was the representative of the human race, what he did had an impact on all of his descendants. We exist in solidarity with him as our common ancestor and as such he determined the fate of the human race. Sin and death invaded the natural world and especially human nature.” So the good things is that we have hope in Jesus who will restore everything to the original state.
Paul brings to view in Romans 8 the two natures that are present in the believer’s life; these are (1) the sinful nature and (2) the nature of Christ. He points out that these two natures are at variance with each other. Paul reveals that when the law of the Spirit or the controlling power of the Spirit controls the life the character of Christ will be produced. The reception and surrender of the believer to the effectual working of the Holy Spirit makes him or her a possession of Christ and as a result there is no condemnation for such a person. On the other hand, Paul also shows that the person who is controlled by the law of sin or sin’s controlling power has no desire for the things of God and the sinful nature is what dominates such a person’s life. The believer Paul points out that yields to the Spirit’s controlling power is freed from sin’s controlling power, which produces death spiritually and ultimately. On the other hand, the person who does surrender to the Holy Spirit rather to sin’s controlling power is not freed from sin; virtually such a person is slave to sin as a result will experience death spiritually and ultimately. To demonstrate the two natures present in the life and the one that will survive is illustrated by the feeding of two dogs. The dog that receives feeding is the dog that will live and the one that does not receive feeding is the one that will die. Hence, the nature that is fed is the nature that will live and the nature that is starved is the one that will die. When the spiritual nature in the life is allowed to be fed by the Holy Spirit the character of Christ will be produced and the sinful nature will die. Similarly, when the sinful nature is fed it will control the life and the spiritual nature will die.
“Analysis of the Doctrine of the Universal ‘Legal’ Justification” Larry J. Kane
In this article, Kane looks at specific texts that seem to point to God’s universal, salvific objective justification. Once again, the BRI has given in to minute conservative Adventist arguments. This quote stands out: “The truth revealed in Scripture is that God has done as much as divinely possible to lead His creatures to salvation without overruling their freedom of choice.”
Chapter 10 on Ellen White on Salvation
“Through all the years, whether justification or sanctification was getting the accent or emphasis in her ministry, Ellen White always sought balance in her presentations.” This quote was fleshed out during the course of this chapter. Although this chapter emphasized the historical aspects of 1888, it is still obvious that Mrs. White was seeking a godly balance between a justification/sanctification emphasis.
Romans 9
“Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.” In short, this chapter is a key insight into Paul’s perspective of “salvation history,” and how God’s grace is ever widening!
Earl Reflection #9 Rom 9, BRI Justification by Faith and Judgment According to Works, Ch 10 Ellen white on Salvation
After reading this week’s articles, chapter and texts several different points stood out to me. But the most significant came from one of the articles from the BRI documents. Though simple in hindsight the statement had a profound impact while reading and studying. The author in his article said and I quote, “Without complete assurance that God forgives and accepts us we cannot possibly live for Christ and in harmony with His claim. If we do not fully realize our acceptance we cannot be freed from preoccupation and anxiety over self to have sufficient interest and time to concentrate on others. Furthermore, without this personal assurance we will not have the insight or strength needed to accept others fully. How can I understand acceptance and really accept others if I do not know Christ's acceptance of me? What we receive in Christ determines what we do for Christ. The gift of Christ can be passed on only when it has been experienced.” How true!!! To often we try to become experts and judges while we ourselves that not even truly grasp what we are so desperately trying to teach other. I know that the theme thus for in class has been for us to get a bigger model but the more I read and the more I try to understand my theme sounds more like Back to basics. In reflecting on Romans 9, Paul’s writes about the sovereign choice of God and his ability to save any he chooses. The chapter discusses the fact that God even harden he heart of Pharaoh to show his power. When I begin to think about things in that light I cringe at trying to wrap my mind around the enormity of the gift of salvation for fear of completely missing the mark. While what I truly needed was right in front me all the while. At he end of the day God and God alone shall decide on who shall receive his gift why stress it? It is out of our hands. We should concentrate on just depending on him for everything and not worry about drama similar to that of Mrs. White after the 1888 committee dealing peoples best assumption of what God scripture means. I have nothing against spiritual maturity however I think we may just be deceiving ourselves.
Much discussion was about unconditional justification being applied universally or only applied to those that choose to exercise their right to choose - life. The arguments sustained between the 1888 committee and BRI reminds me of the once hot topic of “right to life” discussions.
I see the argument of 1888 universal rights in kind with the “right to life” camp. The universal right to life is regardless of whether or not the woman carrying the child wants to or doesn’t want to carry a child and deliver at full term. The pro-choice side I liken to the BRI folks. I mean – the woman has a choice to carry or not to carry. And the choice is really about her and her body alone.
I mean – the birth or non-birth of a person w/o human intervention is credited to God right? And that person (as far as I know) made no choice in the matter of being born. Only God allowed it. And so God is viewed as totally sovereign and we are all part of the universal justification offered unconditionally at the cross.
If we have a choice in the matter of accepting salvation – then that would be like the mother choosing whether or not to allow the child to full term. Kind of like allowing ourselves to accept or reject life – through salvation.
Well.. I have totally confused myself with this thinking. I now think that I want to camp out with the 1888 universal unconditional justification folks. I mean – I don’t want to make a decision on the life of a child or not. I want it to be totally up to God.
But at the same time – I believe that we have a right to make the choice of whether or not to accept life – through salvation. I want pro-choice.
You know what – I can’t make a choice between wanting to side with the 1888 or BRI. That’s probably because I don’t think that I’ll ever be wise enough to stand fully on one side or the other. I do wish, however, to want to believe that God is sovereign and still allows me to make a choice for life or not.
Commenting on: • BRI Doc: Kane, Larry J, Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification • Romans 8, Class notes • Whidden: The Nature of Christ and Salvation, Ch. 8
Articles Read: “How Perfect Is "Perfect" Or Is Christian Perfection Possible? By Edward Heppenstall Romans 9 Ellen White On Salvation, Chapter 9.
Heppenstall’s article showed how the Christian can never in this life claim perfection as to mean “sinlessness”. He showed how the continual tension between the “Spirit” and the “flesh” in Paul’s writings illustrate that the great controversy will ever be fought within the Christian until his mortality shall put on immortality.
The idea of sinless perfection is just not biblical. The Epistle of John warns us that if we claim that we have not sinned we make liars of God! (1 John 1:8-10) This in no way means that we should continue in sin “so that grace may abound”. We have to strive against the flesh day be day but the “flesh” will always be with us.
It’s interesting to study the already / not yet theme in Romans. For Paul, the Christian is always caught up in a tension of what Christ has done for us and will ultimately do for us. So we are “dead” because of the spirit presence in our bodies but we still have to fight against the flesh. “Redemption” is something that we already have but we still have to wait for the redemption of our bodies. “Freedom” is something we already have but not yet fully experienced because the creation is waiting to be “set free from the slavery of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God. (Romans 8:21)
It’s the same way with salvation because we have already been saved by Christ death for our sins but we are still waiting for that final salvation when Christ will take us from this world.
Romans 9:14-23 is indeed a troublesome passage and seem to champion the Calvinist view of salvation. God choosing one in effect means that he rejects the other—Jacob over Esau, Moses over Pharaoh, and the vessel of mercy over the vessel of wrath. But I think that the point Paul is making here is that God’s choice is always based on MERCY not on what humans can do. Paul is playing the “bad cop” to make the point that God’s election is always based on grace. This is the same thing that Paul argued in Romans 3-4. For Paul seems to be saying that even when God appears to be arbitrary his intention is always mercy towards undeserving sinners.
Dale Baker “Ministry after Minneapolis – 1888-1902 BRI: Justification by Faith and Judgment According to Works Romans 9 This week reading on salvation has presented some informative information. It was interesting to see that Ellen White did not start write the book about Jesus until after the 1888 meetings, which death with righteousness by faith. As one reads these books written by her, we can see that she emphasis much on the fact that we are not saved by anything that we do, rather it is all about what Jesus can do and has done. It was further interesting for me to see how there were various movements around at the time. These movements which were extreme in there approach and thoughts of scripture and salvation. No different is it today than it was at that time, since today there are so many varied views on the Holy Spirit, on perfection, and the whole process of salvation. I believe that there needs to be a clear teaching about these topics to members in our churches today, as there are so many views out there to confuse the minds of people. Consequently, what if we had to go through or experience salvation the way that many of these people view and see it. Then I doubt many would be saved, or be interested in it. Thank God we are saved by grace through faith, and that it is a gift from God. Thank God that it is as Paul describe it that we have already receive the righteousness of God, yet we wait for the hope Gal. 5:5. Moreover, as Romans 9 shows us that even though we (Israel) have rejected God, He still reaches out to us to deliver us and redeem us.
Week Nine Heather Barbian Romans 9: This is one of my most confusing and troublesome passages. I remember the first time I read this passage was after speaking to someone who feels that God is a God who primarily hates and judges. He had no concept of grace or love. Obviously he was Calvinistic and did not feel there is anything we can do to accept salvation including repenting or asking Jesus into our hearts. Even now I remember that man when I read this text. The context is that Paul is explaining why God can choose anyone to bless others with. First God choose the Israelites but then God choose to use the “followers of the way”.
Whidden, Woodrow W. “Chapter Nine: Justification by faith - Before 1888,” from: Ellen White on Salvation. Berrien Springs: R&H Catalog Service.
This chapter discussed Ellen White’s emphasis on justification after 1888. She was able to balance justification with Christian living unlike Wesley. Therefore the doctrine of justification did not invite presumptuous sinning. She also stressed a continual reliance on Christ and self-examination. This is seen in her distaste for the phrase, “I am saved”. Christ’s merits make our obedience acceptable and make up for our faults. In this way Satan’s accusations have no power over us.
The Righteousness by Faith Consultation. The Dynamics of Salvation from Review and Herald® Publishing Association. Reprinted from Adventist Review, July 31, 1980, by the Biblical Research Institute.
This chapter covers issues such as the human need, the divine initiative, the need for human response to grace, the new status and life in Christ and God’s final initiative. This article is pretty basic and did not really offer me any new insights.
Romans 9...Whidden's Chapter 9 "Justification by Faith-Before 1888"...BRI's "Justification by Faith and Judgment According to Works" by Ivan T. Blazen:
Romans 9 is a tough chapter...seems to follow the Calvin's understanding of "election"...verse 13 "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau I have hated." Now if this was the only chapter that you ever read in the Bible, chances are you would have the wrong picture of who God is and what He is like. I think the answer to the chapter's tension is found at the end in verses 32,33 where Paul writes... "Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at the stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Zion a stumblingstone and rock of offense: and whosoever believes on Him shall not be ashamed." I believe Paul is simply attempting to get the point accross that God, no matter what things may seem like, God is in control.
Whidden's Chapter 9 "Justification by Faith-Before 1888"...Ellen White's clearly grew in her understanding of justification and sanctification. After much reflection and prayer and bible study, EGWhite grew to focus primarily on justification as the year 1888 approached. She emphasized her understanding before this time was clear... justification meant that the sinner was "pardoned" and "forgiven"...she grew to focus on this part of the gospel...after all it is the "goodness of God that leads us to repent" (Romans 2:4)
BRI's "Justification by Faith and Judgment According to Works" by Ivan T. Blazen: Blazen opens with the explanation that there has long been a tension maintained between "faith" and "works"...one group only talks about faith, while another group makes works the focus. My understanding of salvation is that we are saved by faith alone (Eph 2:8,9) while the Bible does teach that while we are saved by grace through faith, we WILL be judged by our fruit or works.(Revelation 20:13) True faith "works"(James 2:17,18)
Romans 9 is first chapter for me that really had me talking back at it… and the answer returned in the text is not something I'm comfortable with. The chapter reads along the lines of Calvinist thought:
“not all who are descended from Israel are Israel… On the contrary – It is through Isaac.” And then later on, "before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad” God says, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." Furthermore, “For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose… Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden”
And so if God hardens who he wants to harden – then why does God blame me? And Paul’s answer to that is that the potter will do what he wants with the clay. What kind of stuff is that? Is God unjust? How then can I be blamed?
And the best answer is – God will do what he will do and I have no right to ask? I am only made to be shown mercy to or not to be shown mercy to and even be on the choosing end of being hardened by God himself. Oh my!
I’m sure that there is a message of going beyond pre-destination somewhere in here- but for right now – I’ll just have to sit on it and think for a while.
Have any of you seen much outside of Calvin in rom 9?
Peace, mika
Commenting on: • BRI Doc: “Justification by Faith and Judgment According to Works” • Romans 9, Class notes • Whidden: Justification by Faith—Before 1888, Ch. 9
Jesus is the savior of all men, in other words he is the unique savior off all me. This does not mean that all men are automatically saved. I like the BRI suggestion “that all men” in 1Timothy 4:10 could be read to mean all sorts of people, Jews and Gentiles alike, who accept Christ. Therefore, there is no need to introduce in the text the idea of universalism or of a legal universal salvation which has no immediate effect on the final destiny of the individual.
Salvation through Jesus is unique in that it is the only way men can have access to God. This includes all men of all races and class. There are no special privileges bases on ethnicity, or social standing. The scripture says there is no other name under heaven by which we must be saves Acts 4:12
Although salvation is extended to all for it to be effective to the individual it must be accepted by each individual. In other words not universally but individually each on must believe and exercise faith in Jesus Christ to be saved. For in Romans 4:3 the scripture says: For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Romans 4 goes on to say that this righteousness is not a payment for service rendered. The believer is not collecting what is due him or her. Instead faith is Jesus is counted for righteousness. According to whidden in commenting on E G white, suggest that there is need for a balance, law and Grace, faith and Works, Justice and mercy.
On the cross God made provision for the salvation of every human being but only those who through faith accept the gift of salvation through Christ will be saved. Christ's substitutionary atonement is universal in its extent but, because of the freedom God has given to humans, it is limited in its salvific effect. I would like to say it this way; Jesus is the savior of all men, those who believe in him would be saved.
Romans 5, BRI. Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs Whidden chap 6 Romans 5 implies that, Adam, who is a type of Christ That is, Adam, the first man, is a type or pattern or foreshadowing of Christ. Then Paul insert those words just as, "Death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam" That is, right after saying that the personal sins of Adam's descendants were not the root cause that brought their death; it was their union with Adam in his sin. Why say right here, Adam is a pattern of Christ? Is Paul saying, just as those who are in Adam die because of his sin imputed to them, so also those who are in Christ live because of his righteousness imputed to them? This seems to be saying that Adam is a pattern of Christ is to signal that justification comes to us not on the ground of our obedience, but on the ground of Christ's obedience and our union with him by faith alone. Justification in Christ however is not equilibrium with equal action on both sides. It doesn't just balance the number, leaving us at zero, so to speak. Christ and his righteousness and justification and life are much more than Adam and his sin and condemnation and death. This is the real parallel throughout this passage. Many are in Adam and many die because of one man's transgression. Many are in Christ and many experience grace because of the one man's grace. There was one way for all men to fall – in Adam. There is one way for all to be saved – in Christ. The BRI seems to be on point is stating that the imputation theory is foreign to the Bible. Romans 5:12-21 does not teach that Adam's sin was imputed to us. On the contrary the passage makes Adam responsible for his own sin. That implies that his descendants are responsible for there’s, though they inherit the result of Adam’s sin which is death.
422 comments:
1 – 200 of 422 Newer› Newest»Romans 1 seemed to contain the tension between human freedom (Arminian) and God's control (Calvin). Starting with Paul's self description of being a 'bond-servant' (1:1) does not present an image of freedom, but rather the opposite, being in bondage to Christ Jesus! Also, there seems to be some frustration for Paul who wants to visit Rome, but God seems to be controling the situation and not yet allowing Paul's desired trip (see 'will of God' 1:10).
Although human freedom is not explicitly stated (and this might be my SDA bias), the decriptions of human depravity and God's resulting wrath seem to assume human freedom that was abused and used for sin instead of acknowledging God. Thus God's wrath is a result of man 'suppressing the truth' (1:18), 'exchanging the truth of God for a lie' (1:25), men who 'did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer.' From this action of man, God seems to have REACTED in wrath to men who are 'without excuse' (1:20). The CAUSE (man's evil choices) and EFFECT (God's resulting wrath) seems to start with MAN's action, and God's response (hence free choice). 1:24 says 'THEREFORE God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts...,' 1:28 '... as they [man] did not see fit... God gave them over to a depraved mind.' This seems as if the 'ball is in man's court' with God's wrath resulting from our inexcusable choices, in light of nature clearly revealing who God is (1:20).
A QUESTION I have is with regard to 1:18 where the 'wrath of God is revealed.' Does that mean the wrath was already there but hidden, God knowing (or perhaps predestinating) men to make evil choices and then revealing His wrath, which was already in existence but somehow hidden until it was 'revealed'? Like the wrath already there and God was hiding it until everybody else could see the evil actions of those men? I would love some feedback from a Calvinist on this one, but for now I'll take feedback from a bunch of fellow SDA seminarians.
I read the BRI article titled Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification
Larry J. Kane.
He had some very good points in the article and clearly showed that Romans 3:23-24 cannot be used to establish universal justification. He also did a great job looking at Romans 5 and 8.
It is apparent from Mr. Kane’s article that there are some serious weaknesses in the 1888 Message Study Committee’s position. However, as I read Mr. Kane’s article, it seemed to me that there was something missing. I’m not exactly sure what it was, but some questions that I think are relevant to this discussion of Universal Justification never seem to have been asked or dealt with. Unless I just simply missed them in the article, I did not see anything addressing the issue of: What implication(s) does the Sacrifice and the Messianic promise of Genesis 3:15, 21 have on this discussion of Universal Justification, if any? In other words, what was it about the sacrifice of Christ that enabled God to not immediately execute the divine sentence “In the day you eat thereof ye shall surely die?”
One common and I believe true answer is that: they did begin to die that very day, they began the “process” of dying. I believe that is true. But, in addition to this, I think there is more to it as well. The sacrifice of Christ provided a way for Adam and Eve to have a second chance that normally would not have been there had Christ not specially interposed. Another aspect tied to this question is: what was it specifically about the Sacrifice of Christ that enabled God to immediately place the “enmity” between the woman and the devil?” Without the sacrifice of Christ, could God have placed that enmity there? If not, then what specifically was it—what shall we call it—that He did for ALL of humanity, both believers and unbelievers alike? It seems to me, in light of Romans 6:16, the Sacrifice of Christ had to provide some sort of a “shield” or “provision” or whatever you want to call it, for ALL of sinful humanity before they were even capable of exercising faith. Whether that shield could be called a certain type of justification, I don’t know. Another question to ask then is this: If Christ did not provide some sort of Universal provision for ALL of humanity, then why is it that the wicked receive a “resurrection” after the millennium? Christ said He is the resurrection and the life, and the wicked had nothing to do with Christ—they outright rejected Him, that’s why they're called the “wicked”, so why are they going to experience a resurrection if indeed Christ’s sacrifice did not provide some sort of Universal provision for all of humanity—even them? Are you catching my point???
Romans 6:16, when applied to the case of Adam and Eve, clearly tells us that at the moment they yielded to Satan, they became his total and complete servants. There was NO enmity between them, there was NO disunity. God, by virtue of the Sacrifice of Christ, had to PUT that enmity there. And, whatever it may be called, the sacrifice of Christ is what allowed for that. Dare it be termed Universal Justification, I don’t know. It certainly can’t be called that if it necessarily must be interpreted as the 1888 Study Committee does because I think they have totally missed the ball as well by trying to bend and twist Scriptures that don’t fit to prove their point.
The seed that I am dropping is as Dr. Hanna would put it, “You need to get a bigger model.” I believe that Mr. Kane’s explanation did not adequately address the issue. I think it is very clear that that certain type of justification that clears our slate and allows us to stand before God individually as if we had never sinned is by faith—that is undisputable in the light of Scripture. But, that’s not the issue. The issue is what shall we call that thing that God did way back at the inception of sin (or perhaps before the inception of sin in His plans for the Sacrifice of Christ) that would allow Him to let sinners live and keep on sinning while allowing them a chance to learn, grow, and hopefully come to a knowledge of the loving Savior and turn and repent of their sins, accept the Savior, and gain the victory over those sins before their probation ran out? It was a “Universal _______” something…and whether we call it Universal Justification or whatever, we had better have a model of hermeneutics and Salvation that allows for an explanation of it.
I like those words “Get a BIGGER MODEL!!!”
Articles Read: “Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White”
by Angel Manuel Rodríguez
Romans 1
Ellen White On Salvation, Chapters 1,2.
Reflection:
In his paper, Rodriguez discusses the issue of ‘original sin’ as addressed in Ellen White’s writings and what was really passed from Adam to the entire human family. To understand the issue of sin and salvation I think it’s important to investigate the root of the problem as this would give clues to the solution.
Of all the consequences of sin—separation from God, loss of privileges, slavery to sin death and misery—what I found most troubling about her statements is the intimation that if Adam had rejected Jesus as substitute then the whole human family would be doomed.
Here’s the quote: “"Then it was that the great love of God was expressed to us in one gift, that of His dear Son. If our first parents had not accepted the gift, the race would today be in hopeless misery. But how gladly did they hail the promise of the Messiah. It is the privilege of all to accept this Saviour, to become children of God, members of the royal family and to sit at last at God's right hand." ("Seek First the Kingdom of God," Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, October 27, 1885, par. 4.)
Does this mean that if Adam had rejected God’s offer of a Saviour then I wouldn’t have a similar opportunity? I could “understand” how as representative of the human race then all his descendants inherited his sinful nature but I still find this statement troubling.
It’s clear to me that Ellen White never thought that we were somehow ‘inside’ Adam when he sinned so we are guilty of HIS sins, but we have inherited his guilt as far as CONSEQUENCES are concerned. (So “results not participation.”)
Not only was Adam’s sin passed on to his posterity but it affected the whole of nature even when he was not biologically connected to it. This would indicate to me that human sinfulness is more than a biological phenomenon. The sin problem would therefore require ‘more than nature’ (supernatural intervention) to fix it.
In fact, Paul reminds us in Romans 1 that sin is indeed universal and we are helpless without the Gospel to remedy it. Without the Gospel we would be “given over to our own minds” (vs. 24, 26) which would naturally lead to self destruction. We need a second Adam to rescue us.
Whether through the writings of Ellen White or the Bible salvation is as much a mystery as the origins of sin in a perfect universe. This doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t wrestle with the subject, for in so doing we can see new pictures of God’s will to save us. And the things He reveals are indeed for us and our children. (Deut. 29:29)
In the last class the question was raised as to whether the process of sanctification would continue throughout eternity as glorification would. I think if you define ‘sanctification’ in terms of becoming more secure in God’s love then the answer is “YES!” The more we learn of God the more we would fall in love with Him and the more secure his universe would be so that sin would not arise a second time. (Nahum 1:9)
Material Covered: Ellen White on Salvation, Ch. 1; Romans 1
Response:
In the first chapter of Whidden’s book, I appreciated that the author was careful to outline his methodology for attacking the issue at hand, as well as stating his own goals in research. Although I felt he wasted ink in lamenting the difficulties of the research project. Research is always hard, isn’t it? There were a couple of his comments I especially appreciated. On page 9, he states his belief people need to, “take a more comprehensive look at what she had to say, rather than constantly mulling over our favorite statements.” The statement may be simple, but it articulates an important truth. It seems that people gravitate toward statements and texts that fit their personalities or perspectives, without looking at a bigger picture.
I also appreciate Whidden’s methodology in approaching this study chronologically. This sets him apart from other works I’ve read, but it seems profoundly appropriate. Even Ellen White evolved in her understanding, or maybe just articulation, of salvation. I suspect that tracing the chronological development of her own thinking aid significantly in building a comprehensive model of salvation.
The major problem I have with this chapter is when the author likens the balance between justification and perfection to that of a teeter-totter. In my mind, that conjures up opposing forces on opposite poles. It seems that justification and perfection do not function as opposing forces, but instead are complimentary. I still do not have an adequate replacement model, but I hope to develop it in the coming weeks.
On a different note, Romans 1:25 struck me as a simple, practical definition of sin. Worshipping and serving the creature rather than the Creator. I’m sure we can get much more technical in our definition, but as I consider sharing the good news of salvation to my church members, this simple definition of the sin problem makes a lot of sense to me.
Calvin's Theme Song
He’ll Label - Calvinistic theme song
(sing to the tune of “He’s Able”)
He'll label, He'll label...
I know He'll label
I know my God is able to carry me through
He'll label, He'll label...
I know He'll label, I know my God will pick me and not-pick you
He chooses who he wants to and let’s the other free
You think you’ve got a choice in this, and that’s your bad – you’ll see
He'll label, He'll label
I know He'll label, I know my God is able to carry me through
*disclaimer: he he he
Student: Geraldine C. O’Neal
THST540 Doctrine of Salvation
Professor: Dr. Hanna
Date: September 7, 2007
Reflection Paper of the Salvation Dilemma/ E.G. White on Salvation
“The discussion of Adam and the Human Race in Writings of E. G. White” by A.G. Rodriquez were thought provoking for me. He spoke of the effects of sin and the separation of which it caused. “Sin brought on a separation.” He stated that the Lord would not commune with Adam, since the human race had been cut off from this high privilege. When I look at that in the Bible I see a loving God still in pursuit of his erring children in that he kept his appointment in the garden the same as always, calling to Adam, where are you? Adam responded and gave excuses for his actions. So there was still open dialogue. I am happy that God did not just cut them off completely without ever speaking to them again. He could have just left them completely naked and fully under the control of the enemy of their souls. However, this loving and merciful God clothed their nakedness and helped them to understand the immediate results of their actions. But this lesson teaches us to never excuse or justify sin because the mending and restoration process cannot be effective unless we admit our guilt.
Because of Christ, humans can be victorious over the power of sin. "Because fallen man could not overcome Satan with his human strength. Christ came from the royal courts of heaven to help him with His human and divine strength combined. . . . He obtains for the fallen sons and daughters of Adam that strength which is impossible for them to gain for themselves, that in His name they may overcome the temptations of Satan." Through Christ we receive power to overcome our fallen nature.” Rodriquez
E.G. White on Salvation: A Chronological Study by Whidden, brought a reminder of my early experiences in the Methodist Church. Coming from a Methodist background allows me somewhat of an understanding of the conversion struggle that Ellen G. White experienced. Realizing that Christ came to call sinners to repentance and that if we declare our iniquity and be sorry for our sins then faith in the promise that Godly sorrow worketh repentance unto salvation might lead one to ask, “Why the struggle?”
What comes to mind is the Evangelistic meetings called “Revival meetings” that were held annually. There, the front row, “the mourner’s bench” was reserved exclusively for people, usually youth who were not baptized, but who had a desire to be saved. They would sit on this row confessing their sins to God, bowing and agonizing frequently in prayer and tears. They would continue to go back night after night until they received either an inner confirmation or a confirmation from a family member, pastor or church member, of a breakthrough, followed by water baptism.
A song still dear to my heart was mentioned in this reading, one that we frequently sang: ”Is your All On The Altar of Sacrifice Laid?” I will share the words of this revival hymn for your reflection.
Words by : Elisha A. Hoffman
Is Your All On the Altar?
You have longed for sweet peace,
And for faith to increase,
And have earnestly, fervently prayed;
But you cannot have rest,
Or be perfectly blest,
Until all on the altar is laid.
Chorus
Is your all on the altar of sacrifice laid?
Your heart does the Spirit control?
You can only be blessed,
And have peace and sweet rest,
As you yield Him your body and soul.
Would you walk with the Lord,
In the light of His Word,
And have peace and contentment alway?
You must do His sweet will,
To be free from all ill,
On the altar your all you must lay.
Chorus
O we never can know
What the Lord will bestow
Of the blessings for which we have prayed,
Till our body and soul
He doth fully control,
And our all on the altar is laid.
Chorus
Who can tell all the love
He will send from above,
And how happy our hearts will be made,
Of the fellowship sweet
We shall share at His feet,
When our all on the altar is laid.
Is Your All On the Altar? I conclude this report with that all important question for our reflection personally and collectively. Collectively, for unity to exist, we must be in one accord to receive the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. If we are to receive the manifestation of God to the fullest, we must put away strife and bickering over doctrine in the chruch and accept the light that God has given through His word and His messenger. On a personal note it is necessary for us to make a full surrender of all passions and pride. Lord Help Us Is My Prayer!
I thought that it was interesting that after the fall of sin that Adam and Eve could not trace the character of God in salvation. Through the fall of man the spiritual perceptions were dimmed and that is one reason why at times it is hard to understand from the Bible about salvation. The section on slavery to sin helps define sin. It is a power of man that causes man to have “propensities to evil.” This is one part of the definition and it helps us to understand what God is saving us from.
I am grateful that the solution to the human problem of sin is summed up in the gift of Jesus. This gift is the basis of our salvation and it can be the foundation as we discuss about salvation. I had not thought about it before that because Adam and Eve accepted God’s gift of salvation that means the gift was offered to all of his descendants. I am not sure where in the Bible that is supported.
The BRI article talks about Jesus standing in Adam’s place and taking the penalty for sin. This can help us understand better about salvation as we keep this in mind. While talking about overcoming the power of sin the article reminds us that it is important to realize that it is only through Christ’s strength that this happens. This gives hope to me because I have tried to do it on my own and have found out that it doesn’t work that way.
I appreciate that the book by Whidden encourages the reader to take a look at the whole picture and not only focus on our pet prejudices. I agree that it is important to check the context when we look at what Ellen White is saying about salvation. I am curious to know what Ellen White meant when she said that you cannot have justification without perfection. I think that this book will have a different approach than many studies since it said that it is a developmental and historical study.
Commenting on:
* BRI Document: Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, “Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White”
* Class notes 8/29
* Romans 1,2
* Whidden; Introduction & Chapter 1 “The Salvation Dilemma: How Shall We Proceed?”
Whidden’s reader may be impressed with his perseverance through the more than 25 million plus[1] words of E.G. White (published and unpublished) to write a book on the subject of E.G. White on Salvation. Could the “persevering” and “examining” diligence to write this document be a hint of Armenian thoughts? Could Whidden be appealing to his readers to gain “joy, and peace… with intense person study”?(pg 9) Do research “tribulations” bring about perseverance, “and perseverance, proven character, and proven character, hope.” (Rom 5:3-5). [2] I think it might be… but only onward-reading will tell.
Paul seems to lean toward the Armenian way as well. Paul’s description of those that “suppress the truth by their wickedness”(Rom 1:18) exhibiting the their “slavery to sin”[3] (cf Rom 1:21-27) gives his reader the idea that there are those that know God’s righteous decrees but “choose” to go against them. Furthermore, there are those that “choose” God’s way but are ignorant of God’s rules or law (Rom 2:14). Therefore, God chosen are those that choose His ways, whether by letter or naturally. Choice for or against God seems to be the Roman road – at least for now… but only onward-reading will tell.
1 Whidden, Woodrow W., Ellen White on Salvation: A Chronological Study, (Hagerstown, MD: 1995) 9.
2 Hanna, Martin, Class notes for Doctrine of Salvation THST540, Theological Seminary, Andrews University, Berrien Springs, Michigan, Fall Semester 2007. “Perseverance as a condition” is a type of Biblical text heading (Rom 5:3-5, 2 Tim 3:12) that is of Armenian type (Free to choose whether or not we want salvation or in this case whether or not we want understanding and peace and joy.)
3 Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, “Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White”, Under the subheading of “New Condition: Slavery to Sin;” Rodríguez writes“Something mysteriously evil happened to human nature itself that resulted in its enslavement under the power of sin. "In transgression Adam became a law to himself. By disobedience he was brought under bondage.” Adam made his own choice to sin.
Dale Baker
Articles Read: “Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White”
by Angel Manuel Rodríguez
Romans 1
Ellen White On Salvation, Chapters 1,2.
Reflection Paper
Salvation is something that every human being stands in need of even more than basic needs. One of the authors made it clear that since the time of Adams fall, man has been standing in need of salvation and deliverance from sin. Clearly, Adam lost many of his privileges and even became enslaved under the yoke of sin. Man was now afraid of the future, afraid of what his fate would be.
This fear of the future and what ones fate would be was seen in the experience of Ellen White who had great struggles in feeling accepted by God, and sanctified by God. Therefore, Ellen White like all of us had to learn what it means to be accepted by God. She like us today had to realize that salvation and righteousness has to do with total faith and trust in God. Adam failed to trust God and we at times tend to curse him, but we have to remember that we too must exercise faith in God and that we are put to the test every day and there is need also for us to overcome.
Therefore, as we said in class that salvation is a process and we all are striving for perfection. However, I strongly believe that this can only be accomplished by faith. One thing I wonder, is salvation only by faith and faith alone? I mean if we have faith what else do we need?
Romansi
Chapters 1&2 from Ellen White on Salvation.
Article Read: “Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White”
by Angel Manuel Rodríguez
Form Debbedo,
Romans 1 contains some precious gems that will broaden the genuine seeker's comprehension and assurance of salvation. It presents the universal sinfulness of man, shows that every human being is guilty, and is deserving of the wrath of God both Jews and Gentiles, (gentiles in chapter1 and the Jews in chapter2). Paul in Rom. 1:5 reveal the falling short of every man from the grace of God, says the apostle “through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles, for His name's sake.” Here Paul shows that some who have fallen from grace have accepted the grace Jesus offers and are now commissioned to share this grace with all the Gentiles or nations for the purpose of obedience that results through faith. Clearly, grace is required to go to every nation because each one had fallen from grace. In other words, God through His Son Jesus has extended grace to every man because each one has come short of His will and is in need of grace to bring him back in harmony with the will of God. This is one of the things that Rodriguez points out in his article, that Adam because of his surrender to sin his nature became sinful. Sadly, every human being inherited this sinful nature, thus, “all are born in sin and shapen in iniquity.”
Paul points out in the chapter that God has taken the initiative to save man even though they are disinterested in Him and have set themselves to do all sorts of abominable things, (Rom. 1:18-31). In verse 5, he shows that it is Jesus who has taken the initiative to extend grace to “all nations,” and points out in verse 17 that God has revealed how man can receive His righteousness and be made righteous or be saved. Paul meticulously shows that it is God who reveals His righteousness. Therefore, there is no way that anyone could find out, search out and obtain this righteousness if God did not reveal it. Hence, the point is clear salvation is God initiated. Salvation origin is of God and not of man!
Another eternal gem about salvation embedded in Romans 1 is that a person receives salvation by faith, (Rom.1:16, 17). Faith or belief is all it takes to become a recipient of salvation, no works or qualifications are needed infact there is nothing man can do to earn this precious gift. God gives even the very faith that is needed by man to receive salvation; hence, there can be no room for boasting.
Paul further shows that the faith, which lay holds on salvation, is purposeful. Its purpose is to produce obedience to God’s will, says the apostle “through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles, for His name's sake.” Therefore, the erroneous concept that a person who has been saved needs not to be obedient to the law or will of God is unscriptural. Virtually, the faith that lay holds on salvation is the same faith that leads the sinner to be obedient to God.
Summation
1. Salvation is God initiated and originated.
2. Salvation is received through faith.
3. The faith that lay holds on salvation leads the recipient to obedience to God.
Debbedo
Romans 1
Chapters 1&2 from Ellen White on Salvation.
Article Read: “Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White”
by Angel Manuel Rodríguez
Form Debbedo,
Romans 1 contains some precious gems that will broaden the genuine seeker's comprehension and assurance of salvation. It presents the universal sinfulness of man, shows that every human being is guilty, and is deserving of the wrath of God both Jews and Gentiles, (gentiles in chapter1 and the Jews in chapter2). Paul in Rom. 1:5 reveal the falling short of every man from the grace of God, says the apostle “through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles, for His name's sake.” Here Paul shows that some who have fallen from grace have accepted the grace Jesus offers and are now commissioned to share this grace with all the Gentiles or nations for the purpose of obedience that results through faith. Clearly, grace is required to go to every nation because each one had fallen from grace. In other words, God through His Son Jesus has extended grace to every man because each one has come short of His will and is in need of grace to bring him back in harmony with the will of God. This is one of the things that Rodriguez points out in his article, that Adam because of his surrender to sin his nature became sinful. Sadly, every human being inherited this sinful nature, thus, “all are born in sin and shapen in iniquity.”
Paul points out in the chapter that God has taken the initiative to save man even though they are disinterested in Him and have set themselves to do all sorts of abominable things, (Rom. 1:18-31). In verse 5, he shows that it is Jesus who has taken the initiative to extend grace to “all nations,” and points out in verse 17 that God has revealed how man can receive His righteousness and be made righteous or be saved. Paul meticulously shows that it is God who reveals His righteousness. Therefore, there is no way that anyone could find out, search out and obtain this righteousness if God did not reveal it. Hence, the point is clear salvation is God initiated. Salvation origin is of God and not of man!
Another eternal gem about salvation embedded in Romans 1 is that a person receives salvation by faith, (Rom.1:16, 17). Faith or belief is all it takes to become a recipient of salvation, no works or qualifications are needed infact there is nothing man can do to earn this precious gift. God gives even the very faith that is needed by man to receive salvation; hence, there can be no room for boasting.
Paul further shows that the faith, which lay holds on salvation, is purposeful. Its purpose is to produce obedience to God’s will, says the apostle “through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles, for His name's sake.” Therefore, the erroneous concept that a person who has been saved needs not to be obedient to the law or will of God is unscriptural. Virtually, the faith that lay holds on salvation is the same faith that leads the sinner to be obedient to God.
Summation
1. Salvation is God initiated and originated.
2. Salvation is received through faith.
3. The faith that lay holds on salvation leads the recipient to obedience to God.
Debbedo
9/08/2007 10:58 PM
Marcus Malcolm Vassell
Dr, Martin Hanna
THST540 Doctrine of Salvation
September 8, 2007
Well, let me begin where the reading began, with the first chapter of Romans. There are a number of places in that chapter where I could drop my anchor and muse for a while, but I want to reflect briefly on Paul’s words right in verse one, “set apart for the gospel of God” (NASB). Those words have rung in my ear all week as though Paul himself were asking me (taunting me, rather), “Marcus, tell me, what exactly are you set apart to? Is it to a career? Is it to a vision of professional prestige? Or, could it be to a hope of financial security? Are you really, from your heart, separated like me to the gospel of God?” And such a string of queries has proven most effective in disrupting the flow of my day and my personal grand scheme. It has become quite routine for me to conduct an introspective survey on whether or not I am separated from sin, keeping away from things and people that might make me vulnerable to temptation. But when what then? So what if I am keeping away from all the negative influences in my environment. There are other questions to ask and the telling question is, “what am I set apart to?” The gospel of God, or, to goodies? I want to be able to say with confidence one day that I am indeed, set apart, whole-heatedly, to the Gospel of God – the Good News of His saving Son.
But then I must ask myself, if after I arrive at the place where I can exclaim with Paul that I am set apart to the gospel of God, then the next thing for me to investigate is, to what gospel am I espoused to? Whidden makes a very brave but true statement when he asserts that “our witness cannot be effective if we are not clear on what the gospel is…” (8). And, I imagine that while many of us are heavily and heatedly involved in the debate about perfection that quite a few of us are not clear on what the gospel is really about. A bold indictment, you say. Yes, indeed, but the finger is also pointed at me, too.
Along the same sobering lines are Heppenstall’s words, that “the believer is never beyond the reach of temptation or the possibility of sinning” (How Perfect Is Perfect). Sobering, indeed, because that means that here, on this planet, in this lifetime, Marcus will never get to the place where he can boast about arriving at some elevated state of immunity to sin. I must every day and every moment embrace the grace that the Jesus provides for me or else I will fall victim to the merciless demands of sin that is both in me and in the world.
Name: Desmond C. Haye
Course: Doctrine of Salvation
Things read: Romans 1, and “Ellen White and Salvation” by Whidden.
The apostle Paul in Romans 1 presents to his readers the universal sinfulness of man, and the universal grace of God in providing a way of escape. The apostle sought to bring to the readers mind the fact that due to our sinful condition we are estranged form God. This estrangement has led us into deep depravity; and but for the grace of Christ we would be eternally lost. God therefore reveals His righteousness to mankind through the Gospel of Jesus Christ in order to rescue fallen man.
I see in these verses the hound of heaven reaching down to sinful man, in an effort to lift him up from his destitute state. In so doing God reveals His righteousness which Paul speaks of in a general sense. The apostle also states that the righteousness of God “is being revealed.” The present tense which is used in this context suggests continuous action. And so, it would be safe to say the righteousness of God was revealed through the sacrificial death of Christ, and is still being revealed in the proclamation of the gospel, and will be revealed more fully when we see Jesus face to face.
In the remaining verses of Romans I Paul balances the equation by declaring that just as how the righteousness of God is the revealed so is His wrath against ungodliness. Paul, in his discourse gave fair treatment to the subject matter. This I believe was intentionally done in an effort to help his readers understand that even though God is a God of love he is also a God of justice, and judgment. God does not force his love upon human beings, but desires us to exercise our free will. So those who refuse to receive His love by withdrawing from Him will ultimately receive of His wrath. The challenge from this chapter to us is will we accept His righteousness?
A response to Larry J. Kane’s article…An Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification.
I don’t believe in objective justification or “Legal” Justification…at least, the way it is presented here…the whole idea that all the world is justified by the blood of Jesus and that they are justified and going to heaven whether they want to or not. Contrary to what Kane writes, E.J. Waggoner didn’t believe that either…period. It’s clear…Romans 8:1 tells us that there is no condemnation for those who are “in Christ”…for those who “do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.” So there is condemnation for those who walk according to the Spirit.
I’m just not convinced that Waggoner was advocating a view of “justification” that dispensed of man’s necessity to respond to Jesus’ sacrifice with faith. I’m not sure what the 1888 MSC maintains on this matter, but Waggoner clearly states in “Waggoner on Romans” (which is an 1888 MSC publication) what his views were on Romans 3:24…where Paul wrote that we are “being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:” Waggoner’s comment on this verse is…“Whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.” That is, let him take it as a gift. So in Isaiah 55:1: “Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.” “It was the Epistle to the Romans that accomplished the Reformation in Germany. Men had been taught to believe that the way to get righteousness was to purchase it either by hard work or by the payment of money. The idea that men may purchase it with money is not so common now as then: but there are very many who are not Catholics who think that some work must be done in order to obtain it.”
The landscape and context of Waggoner’s ministry included a Seventh-day Adventist Denomination that was so preoccupied with the Law that they had lost their focus (if they had ever had it) on “Jesus Christ and Him crucified.” 1 Corinthians 2:2. Around the same time Waggoner came on the scene, Ellen White said that we as a church had been so preoccupied with the Decalogue (and not the Cross) that we had become dry as the hills of Gilboa.
Kane continues to build his case against 1888 MSC by presenting their supposed view of “Legal Justification” of Romans 5:18 where Paul writes, “Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.” But I would like to draw your attention to Waggoner’s words on the next verse…verse 19, Paul continues, “For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”
Let’s take a look at Waggoner’s comments on verse 19 to see whether or not he believed in “Legal Justification” or (everyone is justified whether they want to be or not). Waggoner writes, “The text says that “by the obedience of One shall many be made righteous.” Some one may ask, “Why are not all made righteous by the obedience of One?” The reason is that they do not wish to be. If men were counted righteous simply because One was righteous eighteen hundred years ago, then all would have be righteous by the same obedience. Re would be no justice in counting righteousness to one and not to all, if it were in that way. But we have seen that it is not so.”
In order to be fair...Kane should allow Waggoner's commentary on Romans 3:23,24 and 5:12-19 to speak for itself. You simply can't make a case against someone without hearing what they have to say.
This week I read the article Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White as well as the first two chapters of Ellen White on Salvation and the chapter in Romans. I didn’t find too much of these that we have already discussed in class but there were some things that really jumped out at me in the book and article. I had never really thought about how strong almost dying affected Ellen Harmon. I know a bit about her story and I know that her sister also was a Christian and had been taken in to the Methodist church on a kind of probation period but after their family was kicked out of the church she lost all interest in the church. It is amazing that both girls had such a different experience but I noticed that God used a bad experience for Ellen to shape her into the kind of person he needed for the job she had to do. This also moves into my second thought which came from the article. There are two quotes that are rather interesting, “It is the very ‘nature of sin to spread and increase. Since the first sin of Adam, from generation to generation it has spread like a contagious disease.’[15] Satan prevailed on Adam to sin, ‘thus at its very source human nature was corrupted.’ Consequently, Adam's descendants could not inherit from him what he did not have after the fall” and “human being ‘could not overcome Satan with his human strength. . . . [I]t was not possible for man, out of Eden, separated from the light and love of God since the fall to resist the temptations of Satan in his own strength.’” I have done some thinking on the story of Nebechadezer over the last couple of years or so. I was sitting in a Sabbath School class and someone asked a question that at that time I didn’t have an answer for. The question was when God turned him into a beast for a number of years, and afterwards he was then converted, was God stepping over the bounds of freedom of choice? I used this question in a sermon that a preached a couple of weeks later. I had to really think about it and I came to the conclusion that God has to interfere in our life to give us the freedom of choice. We are headed in the wrong direction from our birth and it is God’s interference that gives us the possibility of a different road. This was quite a revelation for me. I would welcome your comments on this. Thanks all and I am sorry for being a little late this week. I forgot all about it until yesterday and I don’t have internet at home. Have a great week.
Jamie Peterson
The concept of salvation has been an area of enormous debate in Christendom from the inception of the concept. Adventism is to exception to the various opinions and conclusions on the subject. In reflecting on the readings I have done this week, I could not help but revisit my early and mid teens when I wanted so much to be a perfect young Christian but find myself not being able to attain that perfection. It was frustrating, because the first Elder of my church at the time preached perfection, I later realized that he himself was not even close to being perfect. As time went on I realized that I was not alone in this struggle, neither was it a new struggle in Adventism. As readings pointed out, it was there with the founder. E. G. White has her own struggles. Her dealings with the fanatics and perfectionist remind me of my dealings of some of the Elders and older members of my church.
I am Happy for E.G white’s quest to understand the subject and the way God has led her. I think the reason for our problem is that we as sinners had difficulty accepting the instantaneousness of salvation. We have divided it up into stages; justification, sanctification, glorification, etc. oftentimes one is that sure at what stage he or she is or if one stage is more important that the other.
Base on the readings, I believe the long and short of salvation is that sin separated man from God and enslaved him, thus defacing the image of God. God offers man restoration through Jesus Christ in whom man must believe in order for that salvation to be realized. This work of salvation will reach perfection at the end of time when Jesus comes again. I would like to understand the process of salvation with all its nuances of terminology in a way that I can explain them. But I am comforted to know that knowing what Jesus did for me and accepting it is basic and is all I really need.
Articles Read:
• “Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White”
by Angel Manuel Rodríguez
• “Ellen White on Salvation”
by Woodrow Whidden, Chapters 1-4
• Romans 1,2
In his article, Mr. Rodriguez sought to give the reader a better understanding of what Ellen White had to say concerning the effects and results Adam’s sin had upon all humanity and the entire world. I was able to follow through in agreement with most of the article, but there were a few points upon which I needed to ponder. Of interesting note was the section on “Adam as Representative of the Human Race.” From Ellen White’s statement we learn that “the Sabbath was committed to Adam, the father and representative of the whole human family.” Rodríguez went on to expound that Adam was expected to instruct his descendents in observance of the Sabbath. At first I was puzzled as to the need for Adam to do this especially since we are told God came down and walked and talked with them in the cool of the garden. Wouldn’t Adam’s descendents be happy to gather around and learn from God himself? However, upon giving it more thought I reasoned that God’s plan is for parents to instruct their children in the ways of God; and so it was actually an honor bestowed upon Adam, as father of mankind, to instruct his descendents not only in keeping the Sabbath, but in all the ways of God. I foresee a deep bond and trust being created between parent and children as a result of this responsibility.
I wrestled with Rodríguez’s section on “Adam’s Hope and the Hope of the Human Race” where he mentions that if our parents had not accepted God’s offer of forgiveness, salvation and restoration, the race would today be in hopeless misery. I wrestled with this because the overarching idea seems to be that if Adam had rejected God’s offer of restoration all his descendents would have been doomed with no hope for any restoration. In essence, this would hinge salvation and restoration of the race upon Adam’s acceptance instead of upon Jesus’ atonement. What if Adam and Eve did reject God’s offer? Would that then mean that Jesus would not have come and there would be no hope of salvation today for you and me?
Over the past two weeks Professor Martin Hanna has been stimulating my mind regarding the
subject of Soteriology. As we explore the introductory tenets of the subject it is clear to me that the is
yet much for me to learn. It is clear that Salvation is the study of how a triune God intervened in the
affairs of mankind in order to redeem a fallen race. While this is a very simplistic view of the subject; it
gives a realistic view of God’s intention and mankind’s opportunity. The issue becomes profound as we
venture into how is salvation effected? By whom? Is God’s sovereignty present in Soteriology or is it
part of the definition of soteriology? When does the process begin and when does it end? Is there a
process or is it a single transaction- signed sealed and delivered at Calvary? Does God require that ‘we
do in order to receive’ or is it a done deal whether we do right or wrong? Are there stages of growth in
soteriology?
Christians all through the Ages have contemplated, agonized and struggled with the aforementioned
questions and many, many more regarding the subject. Woodrow W. Whidden in his book Ellen White
on Salvation (P. ) cites that she had become so perturbed about the issue that “she was so burdened
that she confided to her brother Robert that she “coveted death” in the days when life seemed so
burdensome. In contemplated the issues of Salvation … her mind was terror-stricken with the thought
that she might die in her sinful state and be lost eternally.”
The truth is, that Salvation can be viewed from many angles and contemplated under various
aspects, but from whatever side we look at it we must ever remember that 'Salvation is of
Adonai.' Salvation was planned by the Father for His elect before the foundation of the world. It
was purchased for them by the holy life and vicarious death of His incarnate Son. It is applied to
and wrought in them by His Holy Spirit. It is known and enjoyed through the study of the
Scriptures, though the exercise of faith, and through communion with our faith community and
indwelling presence of the triune God of the universe.
(Corrections for my last entry)
Wow! I blew it on my last entry...At the end of my first paragraph I mistakenly said that Paul teaches in Romans 8:1 that there is condemnation for those who walk according to the Spirit…I meant to say that there is condemnation for those who walk according to the flesh. My apologies.
In addition to that...After going back over Kane's article...An Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification...I realized that I completely misunderstood Kane's views toward Waggoner...he was actually supporting his views...that Jesus did shed his blood for all the world, but that we must enter into his new covenant by faith. I agree with Kane, the individual must respond to Christ's invitation. Jesus simply won't force us into heaven. But He's doing everything He can to get us there.
It looks like I agree with Kane more than I thought...I don’t believe in Universal “Legal” Justification, at least in the sense that all the world is justified by the blood of Jesus whether they want to be or not.
If that is what the 1888 MSC believe then I don't agree with them. The only thing is, I've studied with a lot of folks who are advocates of the 1888 MSC and none of them believe that we are saved apart from faith. On the contrary...in my brief experience the 1888 MSC supporters have usually been the biggest proponents of cultivating faith in Jesus. They've always been the most godly people in the church I pastored.
But I do understand we must be careful when presenting the gospel...careful not to present a gospel that leads to liscentious living.
Kane presents Romans 5:12-18 as 1888 MSC key proof text for their belief in Legal Justification. The crux of what Paul says in these verses is found in verse 18 where he says..."Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life."
Paul is not negating the fact that the individual must accept this free gift by faith...and I'm not convinced that the 1888 MSC group is either. I met quite a few supporters of the 1888 MSC at my previous church...they were the spiritual leaders in my old church...no question about it...they remain the most Christlike people I've met to date. So I have a difficult time accepting that the 1888 MSC is teaching or advocating a salvation or justifcation that diminishes the sinners need to exercise faith in Jesus.
Again my apologies for misrepresenting Kane's views earlier.
Romans 2 came out very strong for me about the whole judging others. To a point, whether it's predestination or free choice, all of us need to reserve our judgements and show the kind of loving kindness that 'leads people to repentence' (2:4). Just recently I was at a church retreat of a different denomination and the weekend went pretty good until near the end when several members of that denomination decided to try to 'convert me.' Now as a pastor, this was wonderful education, because I was able to experience first hand how incredibly annoying having someone try to convert you is. This especially true when their tactic is to ignorantly put down (judge) your church and/or school that you attend. I remember distinctly thinking "They would have a much better chance of having me join their church if they just loved me and celebrated my presence at their retreat." Afterall, if there is 'no partiality with God' (2:11) and if we truly believe that HE is the Judge, then I need to make sure I'm putting extra effort to show 'kindness and tolerance and patience' to those of different beliefs than me, hoping that I can be an instrument of God's kindness that leads 'sinners' to repentence. (i.e. you can't attract flies with vineger). I think this is especially important for us SDA's who can be tempted to rely on our 'more correct theology' (which I am proud of) instead of love in our attempts to 'convert poeple.' To be blunt, I've found that being around some evangelical churches, they may have 'very basic theology' and 'just stick to the simple Salvation message' and not go into prophecy, diet... but the love and acceptence I've felt in their presence tends to be more than I get in 'logical minded' SDA gatherings. (There, now that comment should get some good replies). This relates to Salvation because often 'we are the only Bible people will read' and whether or not they will open to the 'Salvation message.' I welcome your comments on your experiences of the love/acceptence/kindness that draws people to God in comparison of SDA and evangelical churches (please, if you whole life is inside the SDA bubble, your comments are only theory. I want actual experiences inside and out side the church).
Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10
Angel Manuel Rodriguez
Timothy 4:10—“(and for this we labor and strive), that we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe. Rodriguez commentary on this verse is intriguing. Reading “Savior of all men” as “Savior as Jews, Greeks, men, woman, etc.” is a reading that I am comfortable with. Whether it’s the legal ramifications of salvation, or the idea of universalism, it does seem that many read into this verse what is not clearly there. Therefore, I have no contention with Rodriguez’s inclusive, yet simple reading.
Chapters 1 and 2 on Ellen White on Salvation
The first chapter just serves as an introduction to the book and sets the framework for Whidden’s research. He seeks to cover the issues of EGW’s take on the doctrine of Christ’s humanity, to clarify her teachings on justification and perfection, and to set for an interpretation of those issues. Whidden ends chapter one stating that, “This balance between justification and perfection can be likened to a seesaw.”
The second chapter begins with Ellen’s conversion experience, and specifically, her experience understanding sanctification. This chapter was a fascinating read, because it is early in Ellen’s spiritual development years. I wonder, how many Adventists have used EGW quotes from this (early) time in Ellen’s understanding and spiritual maturity?
Romans 1
This chapter, of course, starts with some classic Pauline introductions: “To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be saints: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ” (vs. 7). Paul goes on to say that the gospel is offered to Jews and Gentiles alike. The most intriguing verse in this chapter seems to be verse 20: “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” This verse gives great insight into Paul’s idea of “General Revelation” (although, he wouldn’t know the term). Paul seems to be saying that the general revelation through creation is enough to point people to the one true God. For me, it raises questions some classic questions about missionary activity: If “men are without excuse” just from looking at nature, how does that relate to the traditional Adventist idea that all people have to hear the name of Jesus before he comes? Also, how does “knowledge about Jesus” correlate with salvation?
regarding WHIDDEN CH. 1
Laughable logic
Maybe I am too skeptical, maybe I don’t study enough, maybe I don’t hold a high enough regard for supposed “holy things” but I have a great disdain for Adventist “logic.” There is a very tight, rigid, and inflexible thinking pattern that pervades a large portion of Adventist thought; thinking that is detrimental to the advancement of the gospel.
This thinking centers around right often at the expense of righteousness. A greater concern for correctness without any regard for the theological gymnastics it took to arrive at a conclusion, however doctrinally sound or correct that conclusion may be.
Persecution is equal in some minds to the seal of God. For many, if someone challenges or counters a dearly held belief or if they suffer for it, this must mean with all uncertainty that they are not only correct but have the endurance of the saints; but what if you are wrong?
Where lies your allegiance, to an institution comprised of fallible, finite individuals or to Christ? Are you dedicated to the Advent message or Adventist membership? An easy pseudo-sense of security awaits those who sign on to be a part of the “true- Bible believing, apostasy rejecting remnant.” Being a part of a church that God has led, directed and inspired throughout history is not of concern to me- the reason why someone belongs is what is of concern. Is it to follow the leading of Christ as He directs you or by joining the ranks of the right you will then be able to truly find Christ?
God has asked of his followers to unify in a singular way (1 Corinthians 12:13). We should come together to worship the one that created us, not to exalt our ability to justify our beliefs. We shouldn’t revel in the correctness of Sabbath, we should revel in the Lord of the Sabbath. The peace that comes from understanding a souls rest should not be used to cause unrest and disdain among those who don’t hold the same understanding.
Whidden carefully couches the difficulties of holding a discussion with Adventists in his introductory chapter. He appears very alert to the sensitivity that such conversations require. It is my hope that he employs this careful, thoughtful approach to his research and the subsequent findings as we continue to read. What can be more important than salvation? What does it say about those postulating their beliefs with a vitreous veracity that makes people reject not only the presenters but Christ?
It is my desire that the church once again search diligently to know Christ, not search to know how they are right. If we are truly seeking to glorify Christ, we will desire to exalt Him not ourselves.
Week 1 reflection:
Articles and Chapter read: Romans 1; “Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White” by: Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, and “The Salvation Dilemma: How Shall we proceed?”
The Salvation Dilemma:
How Shall We Proceed?
I have realized that there is a big connection between these three readings. They all agree that humanity had fallen from righteousness into sin which was the reason why we have sick dying world. The trouble is that humanity doesn’t have what it takes to save mankind from the curse of sin which is death. Fortunately Paul encouragingly wrote that the Gospel is the “power of God salvation to everyone who believes… For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith (progressive) Ellen White has evidenced in her writings that justification and perfection are closely related and that the believer cannot have one without the other (1T 22, 23). There has to be an abiding balance of these two in the Christian life leading to “unity” in the strongest sense.
My readings revealed that salvation was a complete provision of God through Jesus Christ unto those who genuinely believe in him and claim his salvation by faith which is also a process from faith to faith. Just like when sin has corrupted the person in me, causing me not be friendly with God and all his agenda but always in rebellion, the more I rebel, the bitter I get with God. But now that I have claimed and received God’s free gift of salvation a process of change, I believe, must happen within me. Just like the quotation above: “from justification to perfection.” How it’s going to happen? Let me see on my next readings.
Daniel Ocampo
Jeff Carlson (Comment #1)
Reading the BRI article about the connection between Adam and the rest of humanity really connected with something I had been thinking earlier today about breathing.
It seems obvious to me - regardless of whether or not I understand the mechanics or spiritual physics of how or why it happened – that I am inextricably connected to the choices Adam made since I am constantly bombarded by the jacked up nature I was born with, the wrecked cultures that infest this planet and the planet it self that seems bent on destroying itself if we aren’t quick enough to get it done first. But we are also, thankfully, linked through the experience of being salvaged by Jesus.
Whidden’s account of Ellen White’s young salvation experience resonated with me. The way she felt fearful of never being worthy of salvation is exactly the way I felt from almost the first moments of consciousness of God. I would lay awake at night and cry because I didn’t think I would be in heaven with my family. If felt like I couldn’t breathe. I would answer people’s simple complements with “without God I would be nothing” and similar phrases. What I should have said was, “I don’t think I have God because I am nothing.” Reality finally penetrated my thick head one day when I had a realization that as I was sinning Jesus had already engulfed me with acceptance and was just waiting for me to breathe it in. The realization made me weep and far from wanting to do whatever I wanted made me want to never sin again.
Its like in Romans 1.20 where God says we are without excuse because we are surrounded with examples of Who He Is. But I think it goes way beyond all the examples of nature. I think we are surrounded by an atmosphere of Grace as real as the air we breathe and we stand around blue in the face fearful to inhale because we are not worthy. I’ve grown to be annoyed with phrases like, “without God I would be nothing.” Obviously! Its great to remember this but I think its more important to remember that I do have God. He’s not going anywhere. I would be dead without air: I have all the air I need. All I have to do is keep breathing. I can focus on the fact that I would be dead without air or joyfully and thankfully inhale the air that surrounds me. I can talk about how I would be really terrible without God or I can breathe in and let the air of grace that surrounds me flush my cheeks and race my heart and be so alive that people wont need me to clarify that “I’m only something because of Christ.” There will be no question that I’m alive because of something beyond myself.
We are linked because of the death we inherited from Adam but we area also linked because of the air of Grace that surrounds us just like it did Adam and Ellen White. We just need to stop holding our breath and inhale deeply. (Not sure any of this is really what the teacher wants but that’s all I’ve got for now) Peace out.
Romans chapter two sounds a lot more like the book of James than I remember. Its emphasis on the doers of the law as the ones who will be justified sounds like justification by works. Paul talks about how the Gentiles who do not have the law are a law to themselves. Paul shows the graciousness of God in giving salvation. As one person said, “All who are saved are saved by the name of Jesus, but not all of those know the name of Jesus.”
Then in the BRI document it brings up Romans 3 where it talks about a righteousness that is not from the law. The argument is based on this chapter that there is only one righteousness, and that comes through faith. That is a statement that I definitely agree with. The conclusion is that the provision of salvation is freely given to all, yet it must be received by the recipient. Romans 5:18 is a verse that was used heavily to try to say that Christ provided universal justification. I appreciate that the article reminds us to read everything in context. When we read this verse in the context of chapter 5 then we see it in the theme of righteousness by faith.
I have a problem with the idea in the article that a person must put away their sins before they can be converted and justified. I believe that people are justified when they accept Jesus and He changes them as they grow together. The article points out that God is the one who takes the initiative to make salvation possible. It is interesting to see from verses like 2 Peter 3:9 that there is a response of repentance that is man’s part in the salvation equation.
It is interesting that Ellen White went through so much confusion and anxiety in her early years searching after God. It is important to know and understand God’s provision of salvation so we can have peace as we choose to follow the Lord. If things are tormenting as a Christian. I think that could be from ignorance or Satan attacking us. For this reason salvation and the hope of eternal life is a blessing that can give us hope and confidence that we are in God’s hands and that He truly cares about each of us.
“How Perfect is ‘Perfect’ or is Christian Perfection Possible?”
Edward Heppenstall
Heppenstall contends, “The perfect righteousness of Christ is the only answer to the sin problem in any man's life, the only possibility of living like Christ here and now.” He goes further, by saying that the Bible’s application of the term “perfection” never meant “sinless.” Rather, spiritual maturity is what the term means. Heppenstall ends the article by saying that salvation by grace alone is the only way to salvation.
This article is obviously for those that have taken the idea of perfection too far, and made it something that we think we can achieve as humans. Not perfection as spiritual maturity, but perfection meaning a sinless state of existence. Therefore, I am thankful for Heppenstall’s grace-oriented approach. After all, if our focus is reaching sinlessness here on earth, where does our faith in Jesus come in?
Chapter 3 on Ellen White on Salvation
This chapter deals with how Ellen White balanced the ideas of justification and perfection in the decade leading up to 1888. Just as Mrs. White spoke out against a fanatical brother who took the idea of perfection too far, she also spoke out against a proponent of “cheap grace.”
This bigger emphasis on justification is another stage of Ellen’s spiritual maturity. It is interesting to see how others fanaticism made Ellen really decide on distinct views of doctrine for herself.
Romans 2
Romans 2:3-4 reads: “So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance?”
These are the verses that stick out to me from this passage. I find it fascinating that Paul was writing to those in Rome that were going through many of the same issues communities of faith today struggle with. “God’s kindness leads you toward repentance,” is something that we, as pastors, should always keep in mind when we feel like casting judgment on someone in the church.
The Week of September 14th
What a week it has been. I have been reading everything that I can get my hands on, on the subject of Salvation including what we have to read as a class. Just so you all know I read the article “Christ Saved the Human Race” and Chapter 3 in Ellen White on Salvation. I give you the references so that you are better able to see where I am coming from in my reaction. After reading this week’s Student Movement, I see more than ever the need for a balanced theology of Salvation. I too often see people going from one extreme or the other. I noticed that in the book Whidden talks about the balance that Ellen White had and for the first time I saw that she thought much the same way I do on this subject. We are saved as we are and we can’t clean ourselves up. We are hopelessly flawed in a way that keeps us from doing anything that is truly selfless. So we come to Jesus as we are well then what. Then He begins a work in us that is truly a miracle. We change. We go from being people who live for ourselves to people who live for others because of our love for God which is a gift from Him. We have no right to say that we did any of the work ourselves and the moment that we try to do the work ourselves we have taken our lives out of the only hands that can save us. There is assurance in this. Does it mean that we can’t be lost? Not a chance but it does mean that if we let God take control we ARE saved and WILL be saved. What does this life look like? A changed life is just that, changed. God makes us into different people. The challenge for us is surrender. I have often heard people in both of the ditches say things like once I am saved it doesn’t matter what I do. That is insane. If you really belong to God it will be apparent in your life. An example of this is the story Jesus tells of the people that come to Him at the end of time and say that they know Him but He knows them not. He turns to the second group and they ask Him when did we do all these things for you and He says that when they did it for the least of their brothers they did it unto Him. I was discussing this with my dad the other day and he said that there is a serious difference between these two groups. One group counts all the things that they do for God and for the other it is so natural that they don’t even know they are doing it. What a blessing. They have grown like God and because of this, what they do and what they want to do have changed so much that they change the whole world. I want to be like these people. Well I have run out of room so I will have to continue more of this next week.
• Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal “Legal” Justification
• The Decade Before 1888
• Romans 2
Dale Baker
The topic of salvation has always spark much discussion, especially when it comes on to talking about the as it relates to salvation. Some persons have taken differing perspective on the process of salvation. Views have been forwarded that we are only saved my faith and faith alone, while another view state that we are all we need to do to be saved is just to keep the law.
It is clear that when Adam sinned he brought forth death upon all men, and since the time of his sin man has started to degenerate. But praise God that Jesus came and lift us from the path that leads to death and lead us to path that leads us to life, and life eternal. It should not be missed here that in order to be lifted from death to life it requires obedience and faith. However, obedience and faith is not the only way of attaining salvation, there is need also for works, works which stem from obedience to the law.
As Waggoner states that “Getting into Christ is only the beginning not the end of Christian life.” Thus I believe after accepting Christ it is the beginning of a life of service, faith and trust.
Angel Rodriquez’s article entitled, “Adam and the human race in the writings of E.G. White,” brings to the fore the salient truth that the prophetess’s understanding of the fall of humanity is sound and biblical. The prophetess showed in her writings the depraved nature of Adam that came as a result of the fall. This fallen and depraved state is a legacy that we have all inherited as descendants of Adam. But the good news is that salvation was offered through the seed of the woman to Adam and his progeny.
The article highlighted the fact even though Adam was fallen a door of hope was opened whereby restoration was made possible. His advocate Jesus was willing to stand in the gap, and ransom him from the grave. As I reflected upon the article I could not help but appreciate the amazing gift of love that was extended to Adam and his lost race- Jesus. In Christ we have the assurance that our eternal salvation is guaranteed.
It is quite clear from the writings of the servant of the Lord that there was a link with what Adam did and the rest of humanity. His sinful act affected every last creature on the face of this earth, and sentenced us to eternal death. But thanks be to God who has redeemed us through Jesus Christ.
Material Read: How Perfect Is "Perfect" Or
Is Christian Perfection Possible? by Edward Heppenstall
In this article, Dr. Heppenstall does an admirable job of articulating the nature or Christian perfection. He clearly and concisely defends the position that “Christian perfection” is not point at which a person becomes sinless, it is the point at which one’s, “heart and mind are permanently committed to Christ.” His corollary argument is that the influence of the Holy Spirit helps the individual overcome sin as they travel through life, but a level of complete sinlessness is never achieved before Jesus comes again. He even makes the statement that even if one conquers all known sin, that does not make one sinless. This idea seems to fit well with the idea developed in class of a holistic model of salvation. In speaking of sin, we must interpret the concept as broadly as the Scriptures allow, instead of picking activities here or there that we believe constitutes sin.
I appreciated Heppenstall’s closing statement that, “The righteousness of Christ that saves is not the beginning of a new self-righteousness, but the perpetual end of it.” In my mind, this solidifies the argument against achieving moral perfection on earth because it would indeed lead to a certain self-sufficiency, which according to Romans 2:8 is the antithesis of true Godliness.
There was one area where I had a problem with Heppenstall’s article. While I agreed with his position on the nature of “biblical perfection,” I thought he did a horrendous job of defending the position. It would have strengthened the argument to dig into original languages to bring out the nuances of the Hebrew and Greek. Instead it came across as if he were claiming authority to interpret the biblical idea of perfection in whichever way he felt comfortable. Overall, the author’s explanation of perfection, and emphasis on dependence on Christ were refreshing, even if his contentions weren’t supported as strongly as they might have been.
Redoing Week One with Correct BRI
Romans 1: A typical Pauline introduction and a section on unbelief and its consequences (perversion).
Whidden, Woodrow W. “Chapter One: The Salvation Dilemma: How Shall We Proceed?” from: Ellen White on Salvation. Berrien Springs: R&H Catalog Service.
I find that the two most controversial subjects of salvation in the church (justification by faith and perfection) also are the struggles of individual believers who question and doubt their own faith. The tension between faith and works is a fragile one and they cannot serve independent from one another. I am often baffled at “Christians” who claim they are saved but break the law and live like heathens. The other extreme is relying so much on works that some believers (Adventists especially) act like they don’t need Christ because they are working their way up to heaven. Christian perfection is also important for individual believers. When I first became a Christian I was so frustrated because as hard as I tried I still sinned. I felt that God could not accept or love me because I could not “be ye perfect as I am perfect.” Many think or wonder if they have committed the “unforgivable sin” and can never be forgiven. I however disagree with Whidden in that all Adventists must agree doctrinally. We can be united and not necessarily all believe exactly the same. Throughout our history there was room for differences of opinion (James White died a deist). I hope that we can continue to stay united in Christ despite our theological leanings.
Edward Heppenstall. How Perfect Is "Perfect" Or Is Christian Perfection Possible? http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/How%20Perfect%20Is%20Perfect.htm
I really enjoyed this article on Christian perfection. I personally have struggled with this issue and felt discouraged in my walk with God. I am glad that Heppenstall pointed out those who feel they are perfect now despite the fact that our great heroes of faith have pointed to their own unworthiness and inadequacies. Our perfection is not through our own attainment but it is the gift of a crucified and risen Lord. On this he writes, “The testimony of all great Christians is that they have never attained to it; that the more they strived and the closer they came to Christ, the deeper was their sense of inadequacy and inherent sinfulness.” So what does it mean to be perfect and sinful? This was my favorite part of the article, Heppenstall writes, “To be a genuine Christian means faith in Christ, fellowship with Christ, faithfulness to Christ, and fruitfulness for Christ. Faith means that man has no perfection and no righteousness of and in himself; that man trusts wholly and solely in Christ.” I understand perfection as wholeness. I did not know that there are so many glosses in the Old and New Testament for “perfection.” I felt that he could have given us all of the various meanings rather than a few examples. He writes, “There are at least nine different Hebrew words and six Greek words translated "perfection."” He defines perfection as ones commitment to the process of sanctification through the power of the Holy Spirit. “A "perfect" Christian is one whose heart and mind are permanently committed to Christ, cannot be moved.” Also, “The Bible does teach that the genuine Christian life is one of uniform and sustained victory over all known sin. The normal Christian experience should be one of victory and not constant defeat”. Therefore perfection is the Holy Spirits intervention with our sin natures. Heppenstall writes, “God's method of salvation is not eradication of a sinful nature, but the counteraction of divine power through the Holy Spirit. Only by the continual counteracting presence of the Holy Spirit is it possible to be victorious over sin and the sinful nature within us.” I liked the article but did not learn anything new or inspirational.
I found Marcus Vassell's comments regard "set apart" quite interesting. The truth is when one accepts Christ one is called and set aside or apart for various reasons. It is interesting that he understands this set apart pertaining to ministry; of course unless his understanding is of ministry is the Priesthood of all believers. However, in this case I believe we as called children of God are set aside or apart as witnesses or examples of what God is willing to do for humankind.
It is my belief that what God intended to accomplish in Israel as a Nation, but did not because of their failure; God is willing to do among us as those 'set apart.'
On the other hand, In the earlier Chapters of Romans Paul is dealing with two struggles human choices versus God's sovereign authority. As I read Romans 1:1 I am asking myself rhetorically of course,When we accept Christ as our Savior are we freed or we become slaves. So that his actions compels a response! Are we free or we have become Christ's "doulos?"
-Garfield
• Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal “Legal” Justification
• The Decade Before 1888
• Romans 2
As is shown by Woodrow in chapter three, Ellen White promulgates a balance view between justification and perfection. This balance is revealed as she rebuked those who sort to obtain salvation through obedience to the law and those who denounced or argue that it is not necessary to observe the law because of grace. The concepts of save by grace without subsequent obedience to the law as well as adherence to the law as a means of salvation are just as prevalent in our time as in Ellen White’s days. We see quit a number of the Churches outside Adventism not all who teach the truth that a person can only be saved by grace, however they fall short or err in failing to emphasize the obedience that fallows the reception of the gift of salvation. In other words, they give the impression that after a person has accepted Christ he or she can live the same way as before conversion, because all that matters is that this person as now accepted Christ. In such a case, persons would still be smoking, going to parties, committing fornication etc. The problem with this notion is that it emphasizes only one aspect of the salvation process to the negation of the other aspect. On the other side of the tangent, there are those who give enormous attention to works thus giving the impression as if a person is saved or justified by works. Here strong emphasis is placed on keeping the law in order to be accepted with God. People who obtain a job based on their qualifications would seem themselves worthy of it because they have met all the criteria. This analogy reveals the disposition some have taken toward salvation, they believe they have to meet all the specifications before they can receive God’s acceptance. Moreover, having seemingly met these specifications they believe there is no reason for God not to give them salvation. Receiving a job based on qualification might be true for the work place but not so in order for a person to receive salvation from God. Salvation is only based on what God has done, is doing and will do for and in the life of the sinner. Therefore, the correct way in viewing the salvation process is to bring about to create a balance as is revealed in the Bible and Spirit of prophecy. What then is the balance? The balance is that a person is only saved by faith in Jesus but this faith in Christ will all lead him or her to be obedient to Christ after conversion. In other words, we are not save by keeping the law but keep the law because we have been saved. Consequently, the salvation process involves salvation without the works of the law and the truth that one cannot be saved without obedience to the law.
Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal “Legal” Justification
• The Decade Before 1888
• Romans 2
As is shown by Woodrow in chapter three, Ellen White promulgates a balance view between justification and perfection. This balance is revealed as she rebuked those who sort to obtain salvation through obedience to the law and those who denounced or argue that it is not necessary to observe the law because of grace. The concepts of save by grace without subsequent obedience to the law as well as adherence to the law as a means of salvation are just as prevalent in our time as in Ellen White’s days. We see quit a number of the Churches outside Adventism not all who teach the truth that a person can only be saved by grace, however they fall short or err in failing to emphasize the obedience that fallows the reception of the gift of salvation. In other words, they give the impression that after a person has accepted Christ he or she can live the same way as before conversion, because all that matters is that this person as now accepted Christ. In such a case, persons would still be smoking, going to parties, committing fornication etc. The problem with this notion is that it emphasizes only one aspect of the salvation process to the negation of the other aspect. On the other side of the tangent, there are those who give enormous attention to works thus giving the impression as if a person is saved or justified by works. Here strong emphasis is placed on keeping the law in order to be accepted with God. People who obtain a job based on their qualifications would seem themselves worthy of it because they have met all the criteria. This analogy reveals the disposition some have taken toward salvation, they believe they have to meet all the specifications before they can receive God’s acceptance. Moreover, having seemingly met these specifications they believe there is no reason for God not to give them salvation. Receiving a job based on qualification might be true for the work place but not so in order for a person to receive salvation from God. Salvation is only based on what God has done, is doing and will do for and in the life of the sinner. Therefore, the correct way in viewing the salvation process is to bring about to create a balance as is revealed in the Bible and Spirit of prophecy. What then is the balance? The balance is that a person is only saved by faith in Jesus but this faith in Christ will all lead him or her to be obedient to Christ after conversion. In other words, we are not save by keeping the law but keep the law because we have been saved. Consequently, the salvation process involves salvation without the works of the law and the truth that one cannot be saved without obedience to the law.
Week 2: Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification -Larry J. Kane
Romans 2, Ellen White On Salvation Chapter 2.
It is interesting to see how the subject of salvation never can be discussed outside of personal experience. Many people move from a LAW emphasis to a GRACE emphasis later in their spiritual experience. We start out our Christian walk because we don’t want to “go to hell” and then finally grow to realize that God really wants to save us more that we even want to save ourselves.
The early religious experience of E. G. White surrounding her ‘conversion sanctification crisis’ is indeed a key factor in understanding her many statements on the subject of justification and sanctification. Just as Paul had to emphasize to the Jews in Romans 2 that they were just a guilty before God as the Gentiles, so Ellen White had to emphasize the real source of our righteousness in light of the “Holiness fanatics”.
I think that balance is a key word in Ellen White growing understanding of salvation. Extremes definitely have to be avoided. One can feel so condemned and try to work their way to righteousness and another can feel so self-assured (thinking that he stands) and deceive himself in the process.
These extremes express themselves in different ways as in the idea of a “universal ‘legal’ justification.” To think that Christ righteousness is universally applied to every human being without their belief in Jesus Christ is surely to make grace too cheap and God too good. The same way in which God couldn’t force Adam to obey Him and still be a God of love, so He couldn’t force the sinner to be saved and still be God.
Justification id definitely AVAILABLE at the cross but we must CHOOSE to apply this to our lives. Again, it is the attraction of extreme positions that make the doctrine of salvation important for study. Indeed we need a larger picture or model of salvation than can be employed using one metaphor.
Marcus Malcolm Vassell
Dr. Martin Hanna
Doctrine of Salvation
September 15, 2007
In the letter to the Romans Paul further builds his argument to the Roman congregations in chapter two that God is impartial to all human beings. All have equal opportunity to be saved or to be lost, furthermore, it does not matter if you are have special revelation (the Law) or general revelation (Natural Law). What is important to God is that we respond appropriately to what we know to be truth. This declaration is riveting in that I am challenged to think of all that I know is a blessing if I respond appropriately to the light I have or it will be a curse to me if I fail to live up to it be faith and obedience.
As I think about Whidden’s statements about Ellen White’s conversion experience I have to say that it is almost strange to her about her conversion journey detailed that way because it reminds me that she was so very human. I/we are tempted to think of her as some sort of super-Christian individual who was born filled with the Spirit. What’s more is that I can see some of my own personal struggles mirrored in her own life as she came to know God’s love for herself.
Legal universal justification is a ridiculous notion and for the life of me I can’t figure out how intelligent people (scholars) come up with some of the concepts that they do.
Chapter 2- Ellen White On Salvation- Conversion, Sanctification and Early Ministry.
BRI Document- How Perfect Is Perfect-Or is Christian Perfection Possible?
Reflection
In this Chapter the writer discusses the dilemma in which young Ellen G White finds herself
after listening to the farmer turned preacher, William Miller. Her mind dwelt on the very serious
subjects of forgiveness, justification, and sanctification. On one hand, it is clear that her conflict
arose after hearing William Miller’s view of acceptance of Christ as Savior makes one ‘a child of
God.’ On the other hand, Holiness Methodism instilled in her that ‘sanctification’ followed the
assurance of forgiveness and justification. “She was longing to be entirely accepted of God, but she
was frustrated by her lack of feeling.” This causes me to ponder, can entirely accept and believe in
all the emotional things (became human, lived and died a cruel death) and not have feeling when
accepting Christ. In other words does acceptance of Christ require demonstration of emotions (tears,
joy, guilt, sorrow) ? What is “true” conversion? And does God require perfection in the lives we
live?
I believe that Christ expects us to have perfect love. We cannot be perfect, Christ makes up for
our deficiencies. Therefore, if we abide in Christ we may be perfect- perfect in Character and perfect
in love! As we struggle just as young Ellen did, Christ is not calling us to live perfect, but to have a
perfect love for him and for our fellow men. There is no way we can be perfect on our own!
However, if we abide in Jesus we indeed can!
Week Two
Heather Barbian
Romans 2: Started with judgment, judging and hypocrisy. We will be judged by the laws standards even if we did not have the law because we have been given a conscience. In verse five it says that God, “WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.” Jews are not better off then the Gentiles because they have been found wanting.
Whidden, Woodrow W. “Chapter Two: Conversion, “Sanctification,” and Early Ministry” from: Ellen White on Salvation. Berrien Springs: R&H Catalog Service.
Ellen White’s conversion and sanctification doctrine spring from her own experiences. There are three that affected Ellen the greatest; her own crises of conversion, her crises of sanctification and her negative dealings with the perverted Wesleyan holiness movement. Her experiences led her to a belief in sanctification as being the work of a lifetime rather than in one intense moment. I also believe in the lifelong sanctification process but I wonder if that is simply because I was raised an Adventist. I relate to Ellen White in her many crises’ because I feel that many have questioned their acceptance and forgiveness by God, including myself.
Reid, George W. Why Did Jesus Die? How God Saves Us.
http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/Why%20Did%20Jesus%20Die.htm
This article focused on why Jesus had to die on the cross. Reid argues that Jesus had to die in order to be our ransom. The human race needed to be reclaimed and the price was God’s son. He asked, “If ransomed, who collected the ransom price?” Some theories include Satan, God the Father and the sacrificial system. Since the Bible dose not specify one can only speculate.
I was frustrated by this article in that it did not adequately explain why death was nessesary and why God chose the cross. Also, I want to know why one must “accept Jesus” in order to be saved if God died once for all. Also it makes God look like he does not want to save us and that he demands a blood payment. It sounds so mafia like. My favorite section of the article was on God’s love. He writes, “Love is aggressive: God at work tracking us down to help us. Love is a principle, Ellen White says. How can that be? The answer is that God's love is an unshakable commitment, inviolable, a predisposition in our favor that cannot be discouraged. Divine love-there is no way to shake it or deter it. It is a relentless pursuit by a God eager to help, one who never gives up. In this sense God is love.”
Romans 4:25 questions...
In my reading of Romans, Paul says alot of things that seem clear and powerful, but he also says alot of things that are confusing (no suprise here). For example, Romans 4:25 Paul says "He who was deliverd over because of our trangressions [making sense so far], and was raised BECUASE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION." I don't understand the 'because of' connection here between Jesus being raised and us being justified. Eternal life, sanctification in our 'new life' being compared to Jesus' ressurection makes sense in this connection, but I'm not connecting the justification being the cause/motivation of the ressurection of Jesus. Perhaps the 'new birth' Jesus talked about in John 3, paralleled to the Resurrection as Jesus' 'new birth out of the tomb,' coming out with a new body etc... could be a type (foreshadowing) to our 'sinless' state when we are clothed with Christ's righteousness (i.e. Justification). In other words, when, by faith, we accept Christ as our Saviour, we are then justified and appear before God as if we had never sinned (a 'sinless state' even though we are still human and continue to 'fall short of the glory of God'). This state before God 'as if we had never sinned' might be to us a type of resurection. BUT, I still think of that as more of a result of Jesus' ressurction, and not a cause and reason for His ressurection. I welcome your feedback and thoughts.
Reflections from Romans 2/ Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal “Legal” Justification / Ellen G. White on Salvation
Romans Chapter two highlights the condemnation of the Jews in judging the Gentiles. Their judging the moral behavior of the Gentiles brought about condemnation of their own weakness because of the light that they had received. Their judgment indicated that they knew what was right. Although the sins of the Jews may not have been exactly the same as the Gentiles, the Jews had received greater light. Therefore, to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. James 4: 17
Rom 2:3 speaks of the judgment of a righteous God concerning evildoers based upon the condition of the heart. Who can know the condition of the heart? Only the righteous judge …for the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
The condition that was spoken of here was a hardness caused by non-repentance. This heart condition of the Jews ultimately was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit since they refused to accept the love and mercy that God provided in the offering of his son.
Was every human “legally” justified when Jesus died at Calvary? The Universal legal concept implied that God’s plan is for all to be saved including some who will be saved against their will. Also a belief in corporate justification instead of justification by faith or experiential faith. I believe this was referenced from Rom 3:23 apart from vs 24 resulting in “bad hermeneutics.” Their concept of legal justification resulted from vs 23: For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Vs 24 Being justified freely (righteousnes a free gift), redeemed by the blood of Jesus gives a more appropriate view. The atonement is shown in Jesus’ death. Sin is forgiven by God in the believing sinner. Jesus is the substitute and he saves individuals who have accepted Him, making Him their substitute. I feel Rom 3:19-21 should be included for a complete picture.
The righteous judgment of God will render to every man according to his deeds.
Rom14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.Vs.12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Vs.13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
This chapter, by Whidden points out E.G. White’s ministry in warning against self-righteousness, fanaticism and anything that would destroy the doctrinal core of Adventism.
Please reflect on the following excerpts:
Whites then called anyone who cannot sin the "veriest Laodicean," and they defined true sanctification as that which comes through "obedience of the truth and of God."
The Anti-Law Extremists
It is indicative of Ellen White's balance in her ministry of salvation that she could not only rebuke the perfectionism of the Holiness fanatics, but also give equally stern warnings to the law-denouncing "cheap grace" preachers. It is this decade before 1888 that signals a remarkable upsurge in emphasis on Christ's justifying merits, but it is always a doctrine that features earnest obedience as the inescapable fruit of divine forgiveness.
"Christ did not come to excuse sin, nor to justify a sinner while he continued to transgress that law....
"What is the sinner to be converted from? The transgression of God's law to obedience of it. But if he is told that he cannot keep the law of God . . . to what is he then converted—from transgression of the law to a continuance in that transgression? This is absurd" (ST, July 18, 1878). She concluded by reproving
those who "cry Christ, Christ, only believe on Christ, when they do not the works of Christ." And then she directly addressed Elder Brown: "Please never again make the misstatement that we do not rely on Jesus Christ for our salvation, but trust in the law to be saved. We have never written one word to that effect.
It is interesting that in reporting this confrontation to her readers in the Signs she found it "incredible" that one professing to be a "Bible student . . . should affirm that no man ever kept the law of God, or could keep it."
When sorely pressed by what she felt was gross misrepresentation, she declared that salvation by obedience to the law is impossible, but salvation without obedience is also just as impossible. She declared that we are justified only by faith in the "merits" of Christ, but such faith will never excuse transgression (ST, July 18, 1878).
In relationship to our grasp of her doctrine of salvation, this incident revealed much about Ellen White's developing understanding. Clearly salvation was only by faith in Jesus' merits, but significant obedience by faith was also possible for the true believer.
May our heartfelt prayer be: Lord take away the stony heart and give me a heart of flesh.
Week 2 Reflections
Romans 2
Conversion, "Sanctification," and Early Ministry
Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification
Paul in Romans 2 talks about how we’re trying to escape God’s wrath by judging others when we ourselves are doing the same (just an evidence of how evil man is). Then he wrote about how God’s patient, tolerant kindness leads us to repentance instead of judging.
God will judge us according to our deeds, depending on how we have responded to his initiative of offering salvation. If we desire his will of salvation then we’re glory bound or doomed if we don’t. It’s that simple how he has presented his gospel of salvation. Since God took the initiative to save us, we have no excuse not knowing what’s best for us as presented by Christ patient love.
People will be judged accordingly whether they know the law or not. To some, they may not have the letters of the law but have it written in their hearts and live according to it.
People who live lives counter to what they know about God and his will, causes others to blaspheme God’s name because of their double standards. Their words and lives don’t match. This is the very issue that plagued the early Christian years of EG White whose desire to fulfill her “sanctification expectations” was deeply, negatively affected by the hypocritical holiness fanatics.
Even the manner of imparting/sharing the knowledge sanctification was far from being clear because of the terms used and the idea of making things hard to live for. Likewise, a supposedly encouraging and uplifting message of Christ’s second coming rather than making people be joyful about it causes them to be sad and afraid because of the manner of presentation and delivery. This led people, even EGW, to be confused with the doctrine of sanctification and the experience of sanctification. Only the “altar” theology of an “entire surrender to God” is the key to full salvation or Christian perfection.
As she grew in faith, EGW believed that “sanctification was not the work of a moment, but that of a lifetime. Perfection was not to be claimed as some sinless accomplishment, but rather sought as a way of life that would see believers grow in grace until they received the finishing touch of sinlessness at glorification.”
HYPOCRISY is a big issue with Paul, EGWhite, and the BRI.
There is a great need to talk the talk and walk the talk at the same time.
Justification is by faith alone and perfection of life “in Christ” is a walk of a lifetime and again by faith alone. Decision or choice plays a big role to one who wants to benefit from the free gift of salvation but could never be enforced to any one who refuses to receive it.
I have discovered how important it is to stand by the principles of Biblical interpretation to remain true and accurate on the basis of our faith or completely be mistaken. Salvation is both subjective and objective as per God’s initiative. “It can be, indeed must be, concluded with confidence that justification by faith encompasses both objective and subjective elements, both legal and experiential components. The two are integral parts of the whole of righteousness by faith.
As God takes the initiative, man has the responsibility to respond accordingly, to accept the gift to glory or reject to damnation.
Dan
Adam and the Human Race
in the Writings of E. G. White
When Adam sinned, he cut off open communion with God, which created a gulf between God and man that only God could bridge together. Although Adam had sinned and cut himself and all of humanity off from God, mankind was not cut off completely. If mankind had been completely cut off and/or separated from God, then all of mankind would have been hopeless. There would not have been a need for a Savior. Adam’s sin brought in mankind’s rebellion against God but it did not make it impossible for God to reach the heart and bring man under the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Unlike Judas, Adam did not go so far that he could not be reached. There is no Bible record that he (Adam) continued to live in the enjoyment of his decision. The committed sin brought with it some traumatic irreversible results and experiences and affects that Adam and all of mankind is currently suffering.
All of man sinned because Adam’s fallen nature was passed down to his descendants. This seems to suggest that when Christ was born He also had a fallen nature. However, as discussed in class, Christ was like Adam before the fall, He was sinless. At the same time, He was like Adam after the fall, not that He committed any wrongful acts but that He became sin for us. In other words, He took our sins upon Himself and suffered the handicaps that sin produced. He suffered from hunger, tiredness, thirstiness, loneliness, and death. It is still a mystery to me how Adam’s sin infected his descendants nature’s with evil but his repentance seemed to have no affect on them at all. It seems that we can only choose to do right we have no choice when it comes to evil (sin) because we are inherently sinners, Romans 1:18-32.
Wayne Moten
Comment on a Comment of an Assignment
Raydal brings up some very interesting issues and concerns on his comment on Rodriguez’s paper. It seems that he and I have some similar questions and/or concerns about the affects of the sin brought on us through Adam’s disobedience. However, my concern is due to trying to understand how or why it is that we suffer the consequences by Adam’s disobedience but we don’t necessarily share the results of his obedience. From what I read, Adam’s sin infected us all with evil but his repentance had no affect on us at all. It seems that this is where I share a common concern with Raydal. I appreciate his openness in expressing his feelings and his questioning of Ellen White.
However, Raydal finds it hard to believe that if Adam had not accepted Christ that we all would be doomed. I believe that this is something that probably needs a little more indebt study. At the same time, I do believe that if Adam had rejected Christ then all would be lost. I say this with the belief that only Adam and Eve were the only two humans alive on earth when he transgressed. If God had laid Adam to rest when he sinned or if he had rejected the coming Christ, it seems that there wouldn’t have been a need for him to continue living, especially if he had no chance of inheriting eternal life. If God had destroyed Adam, where would we be? If He had destroyed Adam, we would not be. Adam wouldn’t have had any descendants. Therefore, I can see why if Adam had rejected Christ we would be doomed.
Wayne Moten
Assignments
Salvation by Faith
Jan Paulsen
Sermon presented at the 1988 Annual Council, Nairobi, Kenya (East Africa), by Jan Paulsen, then president of the Trans-European Division; now General Conference vice-president.
FREDDY DE LOS SANTOS
REFLECTION.
How much faith worth?
This article clearly state, that we are save by faith in Jesus, but faith and trust come together. One question has come to my mind regarding faith by itself; how much faith worth?
Many years ago an airplane crash on the Andes Mountain with a soccer team on board many people died instantly, but many of them survive. While they were waiting for rescue they started organizing themselves, few of them when to take out the dead bodies out of the plane while others started to take the lodged out to find some food and medicine. It was extremely cold so someone had the idea to make fire to worm up, while the others that were getting the lodge out found a bag with a million dollars, for a moment they though what to do with the money, but then they realize that this money had no value over the mountain so they decided to put it on the fire to worm up themselves.
In this story we come to the conclusion that money in certain condition has no value itself; what money does have is power off exchange, I give the bill in exchange I got things
Something similar happens with faith that doesn’t have power itself. What faith does have as money, is power of exchange, if I put my faith one idol I got nothing back on exchange because the idol have nothing to offer me, however if I put my faith in Jesus I receive a lot in exchange, because He have a lot to offer me.
In conclusion faith worth nothing itself, have no value alone but Christian faith have value and power only because Jesus
Resources : Adventist Biblical Research
Title : Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E.G.W.
Author : Angel Manuel Rodriguez
Reflection :
I like the introduction of the Angel in this article. The author points out the reason of the disasters why we have. Fall of Adam and Eve is the initial or original reason.
But it is not the end, Angel explored what EGW has to say about the results of fall and the plan of God for us about the salvation. Fortunately Adam accepted the special gift “His dear Son” Jesus Christ as our redeemer.
How great of His love.
Adam is the representative of the human race. I do not know what is his feeling when Jesus second coming and he be resurrected.
“As related to the first Adam, men receive from him nothing but guilt and the
sentence of death."[39] We cannot inherit from Adam holiness and purity because he lost them. We inherit from him a sinful fallen human nature separated from God, guilty of rebellion against the Creator, and heading toward eternal extinction. The need of a Savior is immense.”
Even Adam fall but God forgave him and provide a salvation plan for him and his family, Jesus Christ. How Great of our Almighty God !
I really so thankful that God provided us a wonderful salvation, otherwise we will just have ever long suffering from sin.
Roman 1
Paul said that in Chapter 1:16-17 : “ I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for that salvation of everyone….For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”
He said that the power of God for that salvation. It is a power and this power is from God. This text is very encouraging. This salvation is fully of God’s power and His love. Paul realized how powerful of God has so that he said “ I am not ashamed”. Nothing is impossible in Him.
He mentioned in 17, it is also really impressed me. Righteousness from God is revealed. He did not put it in secret. He is willing to let everybody to understand. That righteousness is by faith and from first to last. The righteousness will live by faith, we just live by faith then we will have this righteousness. How wonderful message it is !
Tim Peters
Romans 2
Christ Saved the Human Race
The Decade Before 1888
Romans 3:21 says that the righteousness of God is witnessed by the law and the prophets. I think that this is often overlooked when people read the law and the prophets. But when we look at the bigger picture and the Old Testament as a whole we can see the mercy of God how He wants to share His righteousness with sinners that they would be saved. Let us take more time to look for God’s righteousness in the Old Testament.
I appreciate the way that it was explained how Jesus is the bridge between sinful humans and between God. I had seen the visual before but this made it more clear to me how that works in life. I find it interesting to see how Christ’s death has overcome the power of Satan for each of us. We can’t really honestly say, “The devil made me do it.” As we accept Jesus as our Savior, he offers us not only eternal life but victory in this life over Satan. I usually do not think of those two things coming together as a package deal. The article by Angel Rodriguez did a good job of arguing for this.
I realize that we constantly struggle with sin. I am trying to see where the balance is between being given victory over the enslavement of Satan through Christ’s victory and still being a sinner who sins in this world. Please help me with this tension that exists in our every day real life.
I have wondered before how it came to be that Jesus life was the price that was needed to pay for the fall of Adam into sin. I thought it was interesting in the quote by Ellen White that it says that Christ made a sacrifice that satisfies “the principles of justice by which the kingdom of heaven is governed.” Those sound like principles that other worlds would not question God about because otherwise how would God be justified in saving sinners through the sacrifice of Jesus?
“Justification in Romans 3:21-24”
Angel Manuel Rodriguez
There are two main things that I really like about Rodriguez’s commentary. First, he emphasizes that Paul uses the word “all” to bring out the universality of the gospel. The gospel is not just for Jews, but rather, for Jews and Gentiles alike. Second, I like that Rodriguez emphasizes our need for divine grace. Every one in the human family has sinned and is in need of divine grace. Every one in the human family has fallen short of the mark and is in need of divine grace. Every one in the human family is a created being, and is in need of diving grace.
Chapter 4 on Ellen White on Salvation
This chapter was a fascinating read, as it exposed some of the intimate journey of James and Ellen White, their relationship with each other, and their understanding of grace. It was interesting to see that the constant for Ellen White, the thing that kept coming to the surface in her writings (pre-1888), was God’s transforming grace. This idea, for Mrs. White, seems to be the antidote to her perfectionist background in both Holiness Methodism and Millerism.
Romans 3
“This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus” (Romans 3:22-24, NIV)
These verses are key to an Evangelical’s understanding of salvation. To keep from getting on my soapbox about this group’s narrow view of what the Bible has to say about salvation, I will just deal with these verses, as they seem to be central to this chapter in Romans.
For starters, the NIV mistranslates this verse. When looking at the Greek, the word for “faith,” as in “faith in Jesus Christ,” could be translated as a subject or object. Therefore, the verse could read “the faithfulness of Jesus Christ” or, as it reads in the NIV, “faith in Jesus Christ.” Since “faith” and “believe” are similar concepts, the NIV might as well read: “ . . . comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who have faith.” Fantastic. That makes a whole lot of sense.
When reading this verse as it should be translated, “ . . .comes through the faithfulness of Jesus Christ to all who believe,” one is more inclined to see that it’s about what Jesus does, not what we as humans do. All we have to do is believe in Jesus’ faithfulness to us. Yes. That is something I can believe in.
Thomas Masimba THST 540 Doctrine of Salvation.
Book Reflection of Ellen G White on salvation.
Apparently chapter two of the book Ellen G White portrays several stages of her life since at the age of 9.Unfortunately she had to seek for salvation out fear of death as a result of the injury she i received. A pparently in itial her seriusness in looking fo r salvation was not christ motivated but fear of death. Doutlesly this is the way many have found themselves in the church today.Some desertded,others divorced ,others lonelness,others popurality and so forth.For that reason, she was unable to understand salvation as was presented by W.miller I noted that the subject on setoriology in history of the church has for long been miscontrued especially theoloically.In class i descovered that there two schools of thought called Calvinist and Arimenian,In my view the confusion came as a relsult of not looking for matters whoistically, and with a learning mind.
As a member of both Millerite and methodist church , there developed a doctrinal problem which demanded an immidiate answer.The was a teaching that , full salvation was instant santification. To relate that to my clas work based on scriptural evidences, santification and justfication both are in three phases.past,persent, and future.Upon the biblical text evidances,given my view is that the teaching was not only untheological but also satanic .For any doctrine that canot lead one to jesus needs wholistic aproach.In conclusion i have noted that i k new too little about salvation or seteorology.The reading of this book has enlightened me enough in view of salvation in relation to my calss work.
Commenting on:
•BRI Document: Ángel Manuel Rodríguez , Christ Saved the Human Race
•Romans 2, Class notes
•Whidden; Chapter Two: “Conversion, "Sanctification," and Early Ministry “
I think that Romans again seems to lean toward Armenian, within the discussion, “God leading you into repentance”(vs 4), “... according to his needs”(vs 6), “perseverance in doing good” (vs 7).
However, the question that comes that comes up is found in verse 10, “to the Jew first and also to the Greek” in the way a blessing and a curses? (2:9, 10) Why is there seemingly sequential order in the “everlasting” gospel. After all, the "everlasting gospel" is not bound by sequence or time. This "everlasting gospel" is the news of salvation. And several questions may be asked, "if Israel's blessings are freely upon to Gentiles, what then of the promises to Israel itself?”[1]
If the question is of sequence, Glenny lists four questions Paul possible addresses in Romans 2: 9-11. (1) How can God offer the gospel to all people if it is based on the Old Testament Scriptures, which give priority of place to the Jews? (2) How can this gospel be true if Israel as a whole rejected it? (3) How can this gospel go to the Gentiles if Israel does not first receive it? (4) If God has not kept His promises to the Israelites concerning their salvation and election, how can Christians be assured He will keep His promises to them?[2]
In the spirit of Hanna, I'll seek not to answer these questions in this document. I present them simply for considerations as you/we/I continue to develop a larger model personally and possibly officially for our church.
[1] James D. G. Dunn, Romans 1-8, Word Biblical Commentary (Dallas: Word, 1988), lxii. as quoted by Wayne A Brindle “’To the Jew First’: Rhetoric, Strategy, History, or Theology?,” Bibliotheca Sacra 159 (April-June 2002): 230.
[2] W. Edward Glenny, “The ‘People of God’ in Romans 9:25-26,” Bibliotheca Sacra 152 (January-March 1995): 46. as quoted by Wayne A Brindle “’To the Jew First’: Rhetoric, Strategy, History, or Theology?,” Bibliotheca Sacra 159 (April-June 2002): 230.
“James and Ellen: Their Compelling Personal Testimony”
BRI: “Christ Saved the Human Race”
Romans 3
Dale Baker
People always look up at other people who they believe to be more spiritual than they are. Some people believe that Pastors and Elders and even Conference officers are perfect people. But clearly Scripture reveals that there is no perfect person no not one (Rom 3:10). All are saved and made perfect only through Christ and Him alone, and no one has the right to say or claim that he or she is perfect, unless he or she is ready for translation.
When one searches the writings of Ellen White they will discover that even though she was a prophet she did not in any way claim that she was perfect or infallible. Many people miss the idea that Rom 3: 23 says where it states unequivocally that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. That’s why we tend to look for perfect people in this world. We will always be a work in progress as it relates to our salvation. Thus even throughout the life of EG White she saw the need constantly for Christ in her life just like anyone else.
Furthermore, even though we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, we can still have access to heaven and to God through Christ. Through Christ we can attain perfection as we trust Him and allow Him to live out His life within us. Why? Because Jesus has bridged the gap that sin has cause between us and God; and since He has done that it is incumbent on us to take hold of this blessing and live the life God desires of us at this time.
Week 3: “Justification in Romans 3:21-24” by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez
Romans 3, Ellen White On Salvation Chapter 3.
In the decade leading up to 1888 we see Ellen White changing her shift from the defense against the Holiness movement to a greater emphasis on justification by faith. As the message of the importance of keeping God’s Ten Commandments was emphasized the accompanying danger of legalism was creeping into the ranks of Seventh-day Adventism. Ellen White’s views on Christian perfection were different to the holiness advocates and she continued to voice this difference.
It’s important to notice how knowing the background to a prophet’s (or biblical) message help to shape our understanding of their writings. This it the case for Paul’s argument in Romans 3.
So far in the book of Romans Paul has argued that all are unrighteous, including Gentiles (1:18-32) and Jews (2:1-3:8) and therefore all people (3:9-20). He now further argues in Romans 3 that the only solution to this unrighteousness is a righteousness that comes from God through Jesus Christ by faith.
Rodriguez in his treatise examined the nature of this righteousness by exegeting Romans 3:21-24:
"But now a righteousness from God, apart from the law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testified. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."
Rodriguez argues that “Paul has made it clear that the righteousness of God is the same as righteousness by faith in Christ for all who believe. He has not argued for two different types of righteousness, one that is legal and universal and not by faith, and another that is personal and by faith. He defined righteousness of God as justification by faith.”
This justification is not something that took place universally at the cross but is effected in the life of the sinner as he accepts the salvation provided at the cross by expressed and demonstrated faith in Jesus Christ. Any attempt by God to justify even the sinner who didn’t ask for it would give Satan an argument against God’s justice. “Available” and “accepted” are two very different views of justification.
From class discussion we can see that the issues of salvation involve the “everlasting Gospel” and therefore address a sin problem that goes beyond the human level. These are things that even the angels desire to look into. We don’t have to feel threatened in wrestling with the subject but there is a mystery beyond which we have to accept this salvation “by faith”.
As we seek a larger model may we find Jesus in the center!
Name: Desmond C. Haye
Course: Doctrine of Salvation
Articles Read: Rom.3, E.G. White on Salvation: “The Decade before 1888”
Whidden in his book Ellen White on Salvation brings to the fore pertinent issues regarding Ellen White’s understanding of justification. The author highlighted the fact that during the decade before 1888 Ellen White championed the view that there must be a balance between the obedience to the law of God and grace. This healthy tension was critical to dispel the fallacy that crept in among the believers that since we are saved by Jesus there is no need to be obedient to the law. She sought to show that those who are saved by Christ are not excused from obedience to the law of God. Ellen White was of the firm persuasion that, “Christ did not come to excuse sin, nor justify a sinner while they continued to transgress that law…” (25)This profound fact must be echoed so that all will understand that we need balance when we study the great plan of salvation. This healthy tension must be maintained so that extremist views on salvation will fade into thin air. I am of the persuasion that even among us today we still find those who forward the view that salvation is by law keeping only. Then there are others who claim that we don’t need the law once we have been saved. The former view was what I firmly believed when I was a Jehovah’s Witness. It is held among Jehovah’s Witnesses that our works only is what will enable us to receive the merits of Christ righteousness. This view I believed and practised faithfully, until I met Jesus. It was my encounter with Jesus that made the difference in my understanding of the full and free salvation that he offers.
Furthermore, this full and free salvation was seen in a new light as I read the writings of Paul, whom many misunderstand on the subject. In Romans chapter 3 Paul sought to dispel the false view that the Jews had regarding salvation. He echoed the truth without compromise that: The Jews were specially chosen to be bearers of the oracles of God, a prerogative they lost because they took for granted the divine God. They became legalist and felt that man is justified by merely keep the law to every letter, a fallacy Jesus dispelled when he came to earth. The failure of the Jews did not mean that God failed to keep his promise to them. Even though they did not believe that Jesus was the promised Messiah, God was still reaching out to the Jewish nation. Therefore, Paul in this chapter declares that the law convinces them also of sin; and makes the pointed declaration that no flesh is justified by keeping the law. But we are saved by faith only; yet the law is not abolished. In highlighting this fact the apostle states in 3:20-23 that by the deeds of the law no flesh is justified in God’s sight, for the righteousness without the law is manifested, even the righteousness which is by faith in Jesus. So our justification is a free gift from God, and we cannot do anything to merit this gift. But even as we are justified by faith in Christ, we will faithfully walk with him in loving obedience to his laws. This, I believe gave hope to every Gentile believer, and is source of assurance to me today.
It is very evident then that Ellen White’s view of justification is in accordance with scripture. Praise God for a balance that is biblical and true!
While it is important to be physically active in God’s Cause- doing good for others, returning a
faithful tithe, feeding the hungry, holding church offices, and doing good for our brothers and sisters.
It does appear that such activities do not do much to give us merits toward our salvation. The
Apostle Paul reasons :
Romans 4:2-5 “If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about-- but not before God. 3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." 4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5 However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness...Romans 4:13-16 It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, 15 because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression. 16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring-- not only to those who are of the law but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. ”
Hence it stands to reason that being justified by faith, our works and own righteous acts are like
filthy rags before God. Any righteousness we bear is credited to us a gift from God. Belief then
becomes not just a prerequisite for salvation, but essential to be counted among the righteous.
Moreover, keeping the Law does not justify the sinner, merely points out his condition. In his book
Ellen White on Salvation Woodrow Whidden points out that when the Anti-Law Extremists of Mrs
White’s day; she did not only merely rebuke the perfectionism that was propagated, but she showed
balance in her ministry of Salvation. She highlights that salvation is only through Christ’s justifying
merits. Through faith in Christ we are enabled to keep the Law, but this does not mean that the Law
is abolished or replaced as secondary in importance. The Law shows us our condition, but Christ
fixes us! In his article, Christ saved the Human Race Angel Manuel Rodriguez convincingly
concludes:
“The price paid for our redemption was the sacrificial death of Christ on the cross as our substitute and sin bearer—his atonement on the cross. It is after we receive him by faith "that we are blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ." The reality of the objective work of salvation and redemption that Christ has performed on behalf of the human race has made it possible for all to return to God and to acknowledge Christ as their rightful owner who can actually deliver them from the enslaving power of Satan.”
Undoubtedly, faith is the victory!
Marcus Malcolm Vassell
Dr. Martin Hanna
Doctrine of Salvation
September 22, 2007
“A righteousness that is demonstrated apart from the Law” (Rom. 3:21) is not only good news because I can’t keep the law in my own strength but it is also good news because I have access to this righteousness equally like any one else by faith for Paul assures us that there is no distinction between Jews or gentiles, for all have sinned and fall short of God’s glory and all have access to His righteousness through faith. That is a reason to celebrate!
Angel Rodriguez’ commentary on Romans 3:21-24 is very insightful in that he has helped me to look at Paul’s words in a new light. He makes a pretty good point when he states that all humanity is in the same boat with God as far as it comes to His favor and attaining to the righteousness that God requires that is achieved through faith. But what he had to say about God’s glory and our falling short of it is what resonated with me the most. That we humans have fallen short of God’s goal for us is evident, but the point htat Rodriguez makes is that that falling short means that we have defaced through our sinfulness the image of our Creator. Falling short doesn’t simply mean that we have missed some mark in not keeping some legal code but we have fallen short, failed to be what God designed us to be in character.
Ellen White, according to Whidden, had a similar concept and approach in how she dealt with the Holiness people and fanatics in her time. Some leaned on the side of the impossibility of keeping the Law while others leaned toward the school thought that through the law one could attain salvation. However, Ellen white had a way of balancing the two appearing opposed views by claiming, and rightly so, that one cannot keep the law in order to be saved but one that is saved will keep the law (my paraphrase).
Name: Debbedo Brown
Romans 3
“James and Ellen: Their Compelling Personal Testimony”
Justification in Romans 3:21-24
Perfection has been one of the most discuss subjects in Christian circles. Its deliberation has resulted in the promulgation of various views and practices. The views embraced by those who dwell upon this topic whether good or bad are normally revealed in the way an individual practices perfection. For example, those who are of the notion that perfection can be obtained by keeping the law oftentimes practice to keep the law to be perfect. Thus, the belief of a person is demonstrated in his or her practices or life. Moreover, since what a person believes about perfection can shape his or her practices scripturally or unscripturally, it is rather crucial then that the Biblical understanding on this subject be discovered, embraced and practiced. A Biblical understanding is very important because it incorporates every aspect involved in the perfection process, in other words it presents a wholistic perspective on the topic. Take for instance, a person is made perfect by faith and not by works, nevertheless, one needs also to review the Biblical data regarding what part does work plays in the perfection process.
Moreover, as I read Ellen White’s personal testimonies on perfection, my consciousness has been awaken to its sensitivity, the need of humility and prayer whenever this subject is approached. As is shown by Woodrow in chapter 4 Ellen White was perfect, yet imperfect and at the same time was striving towards perfection. This raises an intriguing question, which is how a person can be perfect, yet imperfect and at the same time striving towards perfection? Viewing perfection then as justification, sanctification and glorification will undoubtedly shed much light in answering this question.
Follow seminarians how can a person be perfect, yet imperfect and at the same time striving towards perfection? I welcome your insights and feedback to this question.
Debbedo
This is a responce to Garfield Brown's last comment. And my responce is simply to affirm that I resonate with his sentiments regarding what perfection is and the what God requires of us. He said that "Christ expects us to have perfect love. We cannot be perfect, Christ makes up for our deficiencies. Therefore, if we abide in Christ we may be perfect- perfect in Character and perfect
in love!"
And let me add that this kind of perfection, this kind of standard is more challenging than the usual law/rule based perfectionism that we are used to hearing about. The requirements of love surpass that of the written code.
Hmmmm... maybe that is what we are running from?
Commenting on:
• BRI Doc: Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10
• Romans 3, Class notes
• Whidden; Chapter 3 “The Decade Before 1888”
The faithfulness of God is in question! God’s faithfulness is in question because of those that follow him are questionable.
Here is an interesting phenomenon that I see often in our SDA churches. Typically in service before the congregational prayer, the leader in prayer would ask, “how many of you have had a rough week?” In typical response, some people would respond with a raised hand or with a moan of some sort. I think however, that we have not had a rough week when we consider He who has had a “rougher” week because of you and me. I refer to God. He has had a rough week because of me… because of you, because of our unfaithfulness.
The Jews were entrusted with the word of God, and their unfaithfulness begs His faithfulness into question. Does that make the Jew worse than the non-Jew? No way, Romans 3 is clear that there is neither Jew nor Greek. And so we are all in the same boat.
And as we survey boat, we can notice that there are classes of people on this ride. The classes are not distinguished by class and rank – they are distinguished by being righteous and the unrighteous. And even then, many of the unrighteous considered the "righteous" to be "unrighteous." Fair enough - because that highlights a paradox discussed in class that I'm still trying to wrap my mind around.
If we are all born in sin, therefore unrighteous, how can an unrighteous person be righteous? Van Bemelen points out that the answer is found in Psalms 32 and 51. One can only become righteous when he truly repents and receives forgiveness. Rodríguez is clear on commenting on 1 Timothy 4:10 that salvation is not universal, in other words salvation is not universally provided to everyone. Everyone is not saved! (cf 1 Tim 2:4). E.G. White, also supports that salvations is by faith in Jesus alone. Salvation is for the righteous, it is “for all men, that is, of those that believe.” (1 Tim 4:10).
Week Three
Heather Barbian
Romans 3: This chapter covers God’s righteousness in condemnation and righteousness by faith. It also covers the benefit of being a Jew and that both Jews and Gentiles are unrighteous.
Whidden, Woodrow W. “Chapter Three: The Decade Before 1888,” from: Ellen White on Salvation. Berrien Springs: R&H Catalog Service.
This chapter focused on Ellen White’s balanced view of salvation despite the polarization of the holiness movement of perfection and then the opposite tendency to neglect the law and obedience. She always claimed salvation by faith through Christ but this new life was to be characterized by living in obedience to the Savior. Therefore God saves us from darkness not to stay in darkness but to move to the light.
Rodríguez, Ángel Manuel. Justification in Romans 3:21-24.
http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/justificationRom%203-21-24.htm
This paper focuses on the righteousness of God through faith apart from works. This righteousness is a new way of salvation that does not involve works. This salvation is also inclusive of all people; Jews and Gentiles. Romans states that all have sinned and fallen short apart from the original sin. Therefore, this sin is our own responsibility and denotes a continuing inability to live up to God’s standards. This righteousness then is not earned but a gift from Christ through the cross. Then God declares those who believe righteous. My question then is how individuals prior to Christ were declared righteous through faith even when they had no knowledge of the cross or Jesus. Is there then room for a belief that non-Christians will be in heaven even those who were exposed to Christians?
Reading materials:
1. Romans 1.
2. Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White by Ángel Manuel Rodriguez
3. Chapter one: the salvation dilemma: how shall we proceed?
Angel Manuel Rodriguez elaborated an article based on what Woodrow could say it is the late reflection stage of Ellen G. White about the topic of salvation of human race. He made a good summary on a salvation history as it was understood after a long life time of Ellen White. He chose very correctly Ellen G. white quotations and understanding regarding the way of salvation.
The other side of this article is that even though it displays a consistent history of human salvation from Eden and its restoration, it has a lacking of detail that has been discussed in our class sections. It does not present the currents struggles that seventh Day Adventist is facing regarding of this topic.
It is a good introduction material that fit very well with the introduction chapter of Woodrow. He state that the key to understand Ellen ZG. White understanding regarding salvation is “begin with intense personal study…take a hard look at all, not just some, of what Ellen White had to say about salvation and closely related issues.”
I am looking forward to see others documents and articles about this subject. Even though I will not look at all the Ellen White materials on salvation, I may confront different exponents of view on the same area. I hope this could give me a good balance during the process.
Reading materials:
1. Romans 2.
2. Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification by Larry J. Kane.
3. Chapter two, Conversion, Sanctification and early ministry.
What I understand about this article is that Larry J. Kane has declared that the doctrine of universal legal justification is not biblical. It has not represent either the 1888 Message Study Committee ("1888 MSC") and Ellen G. White understanding of it.
As I understood, Kane said that Universal justification it is a doctrine that proclaim that all humans were condemned under Adam’s sin but all are justified as result of Christ death and resurrection. It seems to me that Kane picture universal justification as Universalism that believe that God is going to save all human being regarding if they believe in him or not.
I agree with Kane on the emphasis that Bible place on the choice of humans to believe in Christ in order to be saved. Even though he mentioned that Romans chapter 3, 5, and 8 emphasizes a universal justification but just for those who believe in Christ, I still have some questions. When Jesus Christ die and resurrected were humans being placed in another status toward God? When the juridical justification was given to all the man after Jesus dies and resurrected or during our acceptance of his sacrifice?
I have heard about a grace provision time that God justified provisionally all men. He does that in order that they may accept his grace. If they refuse it the provisional and temporal grace and justification will not be granted any more. I am not sure about it. It seem to me that Humans has a free will to choice to be save or not, but in the same time Jesus sacrifice were given when men were sinners and not wanted to be with his creator.
Let me continue wrestling with this issue. I probably will ask it during our class time.
Salvation Week 3 Submission
Greetings again, fellow students. It is amazing how God works. It just happened that I read Romans 3 and the article ‘Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification’. Things just seem to work that way at times. Where do I begin? First I really enjoyed the Bible reading and the fact that Paul states pretty plainly that Jews and Gentiles are in the same boat. This gets interesting. I have not done a lot of study in this area so you will have to forgive me if I go on hear say but I have heard it said that the Christian church is nothing but grafted on branches to a tree that is Jewish. Almost implying that we are not as good as they are nor are we even God’s original plan. I understand some of what is behind this but I want to know what the class has to say about this.
On the issue of the Justification of Christ here is where I stand at the moment. I say at the moment because I am constantly learning and reevaluating. I believe that we were all cursed by Adam’s sin and that because of this we were all lost. When Jesus came and died on the cross we were all given the gift of Salvation. Because of this gift we now had a choice of allegiances again. Are we going to serve God or Satan? He gave this gift to everyone because He died for everyone, but like any other gift it needed to be accepted. If it is not accepted then we are not saved. That doesn’t mean that God only gave the gift to a few people nor does it mean that we automatically are saved. I want to know what the class has to say on this. I hope you all have a great week and I will see you in class.
Do We Like to Retain God in Our Knowledge? Romans 2 continues with the same thought of chapter one. Paul begins, “Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things.” (“Such things” refers to chapter one’s list of sinful characteristics found in people who fail to “retain God in their knowledge” and thus separate themselves from God…vv 28-31.) Thankfully God is Judge and we aren’t. Knowing this and living this, of course are two different things. Paul asks the question “…do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?” The obvious answer is NO, of course not! But the truth is we all have not only practiced “such things”…[sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness, whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, and unmerciful.]…but we’ve also judged people as well for practicing them. Why? We “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God”...so why is it that we feel worthy to play judge sometimes? I believe it goes back to Paul’s phrase “…they did not like to retain God in their knowledge”…How about us? Do we like to retain God in our knowledge? If not, then the automatic fallout is the development of a unbiblical picture of God. If we fail to retain a knowledge of God as He is revealed in Jesus Christ in the Bible, then we begin to view God as distant and judgmental, ever-ready to condemn us…judge us. It’s with this paradigm…this “false knowledge of God” that we become ever-increasingly unmerciful and judgmental.
In response to 'Christ Saved the Human Race' by Angel Manuel Rodriguez
After reading this article, I found it was splitting hairs. I liked how the author took a closer look at some EGW comments on salvation and clarified a few things, but to my mind he didn't really clarify WHY the paper was important (ie. how Jesus providing the 'possibility to be united with God' was that different from Jesus legally saving the whole human race.) Perhaps my bias is already that way, but when I hear 'Jesus legally saved the whole human race' I don't jump to universal salvation. I do see Jesus as triumphant over Satan and whether you use the 'legally justified' term or not, I see that in a 'potential' or made available sense. I also checked all the occurrences of 'justified' in the NIV and NASB and none them indicate a universal justification. Only one verse comes close, and that is Is. 45:25 “In the LORD all the offspring of Israel will be justified and will glory.” (NASB) We could go digging into this verse, but for now, I have the personal premise that I don't build any big theology off of one verse or isolated EGW comments.
In response to Ch. 5 from Whidden. (EGW and the Bible)
So far I really like this book, especially the chronological method of presenting ideas. In there he brought up those quotes from GC about having to ‘stand in the sight of holy God with out a mediator…’ (425, 623). Alhtough Whidden stated that this would be dealt with in section 4 of the book, I have to put something out on the web because the controversy surrounding these comments, noteably the ‘last generation theology.’
As I have personally run into people who hold this view (coming from experience, not reading in the library), my basic summary is that the last generation has to be perfect, so perfect that they can survive before God with the ‘protection of Jesus.’ That although all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (check out the present tense in the Greek on this one) and the robe of Christ covers our PAST, that we must get closer and closer to sinlessness until you are sinless. Only at that point can you stand before God without a mediator.
Now, without jumping ahead to section 4 (which I am looking forward to), there is a hermeneutical issue here. I have the personal premise that I don't build any big theology off of one verse. If it is important to God, He will have His truth mentioned several times in His word. I should get a lot of amens for that. However, here’s the controversy: I try not to BASE any theology off of EGW comments. (Here's something to get some comments). Agreeing that she is a prophet, I still have serious reservations about basing our theology off of her writings. It seems ALL our theology should come directly from the Bible and IF she points us to relevant texts or passages or clarifies the Bible, then great. But, if you cannot clearly support an idea or belief from clear teaching of scripture (including the verses that seem to contradict that idea), then you don’t have a theology.
The problem is I've seen a lot of weird theology come from misusing EGW. Part of my theory why this happens is because she wrote SOOO much that that SDA's have an easier time taking her comments out of context or simply misusing them (i.e. there just simply more material written to so many different specific contexts that simply the opposite truth would apply to an opposite context – i.e. advice to a workaholic vs. advice to a sloth would give opposite ‘inspired quotes’). Something I really appreciate about our church is how we promote vegetarianism but have not made it a requirement despite the strong statement EGW says. The reason is because in the Bible you can’t make a requirement that would exclude Jesus from fellowship (Jesus not only fed 1000’s of people fish the 5000 and 4000, but also ate fish himself -- Luke 24:42-43 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence.) I think we need to stick by principles like – promote what EGW said, but keep requirements out of the Bible alone. (this should get some good comments)
Reflection Paper #3
Romans Three / The Ark of the Covenant Will It Be Found?/ Ellen White on Salvation
Testimony of James and Ellen White: In a final personal testimony on Perfection, Ellen White laid no claim on perfection, but stated that she is trying to be perfect. She stated that if she could not associate with her brothers and sisters who are not perfect she did not know what she would do. The following quotation is deserving of direct representation: "I try to treat the matter the best that I can, and am thankful that I have a spirit of uplifting and not a spirit of crushing down. . . . No one is perfect. If one were perfect, he would be prepared for heaven. As long as we are not perfect, we have a work to do to get ready to be perfect. We have a mighty Savior. . . .
"I rejoice that I have that faith that takes hold of the promises of God, that works by love and sanctifies the soul" (quoted in RH, July 23, 1970).32
“ While the details of her understanding of what constitutes an experience of sanctification and perfection would change over the years, no changes in social status, geography, denominational growth, or advances in doctrinal sophistication and expression would change her constant emphasis on God's great transforming power."
Romans Chapter 3: 10 As it is written , there is none righteous, no not one. Each person is born in sin: Behold, I was born in sin and shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. Ps 51:6. The apostle Paul considered himself to be a sinner: This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. I Tim.1:15.
In seeking perfection, should the aim of every Christian be to seek to uplift instead of tear down. Every Christian should strive toward perfection for the word of God says Be ye therefore perfect, even as your father in heaven is perfect. Matt.5:48.
This chapter continues to discuss the depravity of the tongue and of its aim at destruction. It speaks of deceit, hypocrisy, slander and other vicious acts…and ultimately concludes there is no fear of God.
To every believer : But the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Ps 19:1, 7-10
vs 1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Vs 7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Vs 8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Vs 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Vs 10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
“More to be desired are they than gold denotes something of value or great worth.
Therefore perfection should be something to be desired of value or great worth.
I believe that at the time of a believer’s death whatever level of spiritual growth that has
been reached by faith will be perfected by the righteousness of Jesus.
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your father in heaven is perfect. Matt.5:48.
In the article: The Ark of the Covenant: Will It be found ? With a discussion here of Heavenly Sanctuary and the Earthly Sanctuary. It was stated that the Law of God in the sanctuary in heaven is the great original of what the precepts inscribed upon the table of stone and recorded by Moses in the first five books of the Old Testament, and were an unerring transcript.
The section of the laws (the Ten Commandments; Ex. 20:1-17 were said to be hidden by righteous men in a cave shortly before the destruction of the temple by the Babylonians in the time of Jeremiah. When the judgment shall sit, these tables of stone now lying in the Ark of the Testament will be convincing.
"With His own finger God wrote His commandments on two tables of stone. These tables were not left in the keeping of men, but were placed in the ark; and in the great day when every case is decided, these tables, inscribed with the commandments, will be placed so that all the world will see and understand. The witness against them will be unanswerable." -Letter 30, 1900 (MR 1401).
"While these words of holy trust ascend to God, the clouds sweep back, and the starry heavens are seen, unspeakably glorious in contrast with the black and angry firmament on either side. The glory of the celestial city streams from the gates ajar. Then there appears against the sky a hand holding two tables of stone folded together. Says the prophet: 'The heavens shall declare His righteousness: for God is judge Himself' (Psalm 50:6). That holy law, God's righteousness, that amid thunder and flame was proclaimed from Sinai as the guide of life, is now revealed to men as the rule of judgment. The hand opens the tables, and there are seen the precepts of the Decalogue, traced as with a pen of fire. The words are so plain that all can read them." -GC 639.
Nowhere is it said that the tables of the law will be brought forth by men as a result of finding them hidden in a cave. In fact, it is clearly stated that God Himself will bring forth the tables of the law to the view of men, and in one statement Ellen White specifies that "these tables of stone are in the heavens."' Moreover, the time when He will do this is said specifically to be: " when every case is decided in the courts of heaven;" "at the judgment."
Romans 3
To Paul, Jews and Greeks are sinners alike. This tells us that we are all sinners (apart from God). The Law stands by itself because it is the character of God just as God stands alone. There is the Law and there is the Law of Faith which says that “man is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law. Faith’s purpose is to “establish the Law”, faith then is the act of getting reconciled with God by accepting his gift of salvation that as a result it reconciles us with the Law through willing obedience.
The Decade Before 1888
Ellen White continues her war against the “Holiness fanatics” and to those who were Bible students, like Elder Brown, who claims that obedience to the “Law” cannot be possible with men. Her emphasis was on the Justification by the blood of Christ which eventually brought fruits to obedience to His laws. Her voice on ‘Justification by FAITH” became much louder than ever, even sensing the surge of the “legalist” who claims to have been freed from sin by their own works first before God could forgive them. This she declared was not the way God intends it, rather it’s the reverse. God declares us justified by faith making us reconciled with him and therefore made us friends with law and no more under it but with it.
BRI
Christ Saved the Human Race
Ángel Manuel Rodríguez
In this article Angel Rodriguez made it clear tat Ellen never was a supporter of “Legal Justification” as claimed by those who quote her statements out of context and wrongfully interpret her thoughts. The author made it clear that such a theology could never be found in the Bible neither in the writing of Ellen White. Sad to say that until now such a stand is embraced by some of our theologians such as, Jack Sequeira, he wrote, "I believe the Bible teaches that God actually and unconditionally saved all humanity at the cross so that we are justified and reconciled to God by that act (Romans 5:10, 18; 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19). I believe that the only reason anyone will be lost is because he or she willfully and persistently rejects God's gift of salvation in Christ" (Beyond Belief [Boise, ID: Pacific Press, 1993], p. 8).
Now what do you think about the very words of Jesus found in John 3:16 “… that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life.”? I think this is the theology where Jesus stands, “the freedom of choice”. I for one don’t believe in salvation by force. But as a parent myself, I think if I know that my mature child is perishing and doesn’t acknowledge a need for help, the only thing I can do is to be persistent in offering my help until a final choice is made either by me or my child. I think that's how it works with all the articles and verses I've read and stand for it.
Dan
This week’s readings have raised some important issues about justification and the process that led up to our present understanding on the subject. One thing is obvious and that is our understanding of sanctification, righteousness by faith, the whole plan and process of salvation for that matter is an evolving and dynamic process. Another important lesson learned is that one should avoid the temptation be dogmatic when taking position on the issue. As can be seen from the readings our pioneer did struggle and wrestle in the years leading up the 1888 General Conference session.
The debate continues today only now with more sophisticated in terms of terminologies used. The concepts of objective and subject justification and their implications are brought to bear. The question is do we have to choose between both concepts or is there room for both concepts in a bigger model? I think so. It is true that Christ’s death offers salvation to everyone, but His death does not allow continued disobedience to the law. Paul clearly and decisively eliminates any warrant for such a misconception. Answering his own rhetorical query, "Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?" Paul states emphatically, "God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" (Rom. 6:1, 2).
One should always bear in mind that salvation for humanity is God’s initiative and not man’s. Man’s duty is to accept what God has already provided through Christ’s death on the Cross. As Ellen states no one is perfect but she also states that we have imputed righteousness. Nonetheless, man has to act in that he has to make confession of Christ. "He that .believeth on him shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life" (John 5:24)
Rudolph Sterling
Comments on Romans 8 – Predestination
This summer I was on a road trip with good friends to TN to do some rock climbing. Down there we stayed at the house of some very sincere Christians who attended a Calvinist lean church. During our time (this was not our first time there) predestination came up, and in an attempt to not be ‘the pastor, so what I say goes’ type guy I humbly listened to them explain their views of ‘God’s sovereignty (which is a Calvinist take on what we would see at predestination). We discussed it for over an hour and the bottom line was that they freely admitted to not liking the doctrine of predestination, but as they studied it they saw no way around it. The Bible simply taught that God predestined people to heaven or hell and that He was God and he was allowed to do this ‘(i.e. God is allowed to ‘play God’). Now, myself also disliking ‘predestination’ I tried to show them all the ‘free choice’ verse I could think of from Genesis to Joshua to Acts to Revelation…. They liked those, but they came back to me (the SDA pastor) with ‘but that sounds nice, and I want to believe it, BUT THE BIBLE teaches predestination….’ The problem is, and I told them up front, the Bible is my standard for my belief, and not my denomination. But here they were giving me the texts. The main text, that seemed to be the clearest was Romans 8, especially 29 - 30
”For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” (NIV)
So there is was, clear Biblical teaching on predestination (although I felt I had a much larger ‘stack’ of verses on choice, they kept coming back here). To be honest, I was stuck. This passage seemed pretty clear and I took the majority rule in my own head (i.e. more verses as well as the ‘big picture’ of the Great Controversy), and that I was okay with one verse that didn’t fit in for now. Go with the greatest support. When I came back I talked to Dr. Hanna and he opened the text and asked me how the sequence started. I can’t believe I didn’t see it before; predestination is not the beginning, foreknowledge is the beginning. If God foreknew, then it was not just an arbitrary choice by God (i.e. God ‘playing God’) but he foreknew, THEN He predestined. I’m still trying understand all what this means, but that sequence to me is very significant. I’d like to hear what you think.
Incarnation with out sin?
(a personal comment by Walter)
Talking of good coming from sin (see my comment responding to Dr. Hanna’s comment to Montes), most of us would agree that Jesus’ incarnation was good thing, right? A friend once shared that she believed that Jesus would have been incarnated even if humans had never sinned BECAUSE she didn’t like the idea of ANYTHING good coming from sin. I respect her reasoning, but I have to say that I don’t think there would have been a need for the incarnation of Christ without sin. Not sure what would have happened to Lucifer and the fallen angels (there’s a whole other topic about the possibility of their redemption), but man would not have needed to be redeemed since he had not fallen. A couple verses that come to mind are…
Rm 5:20 …But where sin increased, grace increased all the more…
Rm 28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him,[a] who[b] have been called according to his purpose.
So, do you think that the incarnation still would have happened had Adam/Eve never fallen?
No redemption for angels?
(a personal comment by Walter)
Why do we never talk about the redemption of angels? It seems odd that such extreme measures were taken to save humans who had fallen. You could say that we were deceived by Satan, but had not the 1/3 of the angels been deceived by Satan, who like the snake was a beautiful and seemingly trustworthy creature? You could say the angels knew better and had had communion with God, but so had Adam and Eve. I can’t think of any Biblical reference to the redemption of angels. 1 Corinthians 6:3
says that “Do you not know that we will judge angels?...”, but I don’t see anything about their possibility of changing back to God’s side.
I am sure I am not original enough to be the first person to wonder about this, so please share some of your thoughts. Maybe some of you know of some EGW comments that might relate to this.
ELLEN WHITE ON SALVATION
WOODROW WHIDDEN II
THE NATURE OF CHIRST AND SALVATION
COMENTS ON CHAPTER 8:
When we bring the subject of the nature of Christ we can’t escape of very complicated questions, in which many give different opinions thus bringing but complications. In chapter 8 of the book I found simple answers on the nature of Christ, I must recognize that the subject is a mystery.
Reading this chapter I found a quote from Ellen White who the author makes reference and I want it to mention too here “Christ reaches us where we are. He took our nature and overcame, that we through taking His nature might overcome. Made in the likeness of sinful flesh, He lived a sinless life” (DA 311, 312). Sometimes we get to complicate when the major news is that all that mystery of the incarnation was done in favor of the human race so that this could be save from sin.
Two mixed nature is impossible to explain, nevertheless Jesus possess both, here is to another quote found in the book: “Christ could have done nothing during His earthly ministry in saving the fallen man, if the divine had not been blended with the human” I just like to accept what God had done for me, making the impossible possible to give me salvation.
ELLEN WHITE ON SALVATION
WOODROW WHIDDEN II
THE NATURE OF CHIRST AND SALVATION
COMENTS ON CHAPTER 8:
When we bring the subject of the nature of Christ we can’t escape of very complicated questions, in which many give different opinions thus bringing but complications. In chapter 8 of the book I found simple answers on the nature of Christ, I must recognize that the subject is a mystery.
Reading this chapter I found a quote from Ellen White who the author makes reference and I want it to mention too here “Christ reaches us where we are. He took our nature and overcame, that we through taking His nature might overcome. Made in the likeness of sinful flesh, He lived a sinless life” (DA 311, 312). Sometimes we get to complicate when the major news is that all that mystery of the incarnation was done in favor of the human race so that this could be save from sin.
Two mixed nature is impossible to explain, nevertheless Jesus possess both, here is to another quote found in the book: “Christ could have done nothing during His earthly ministry in saving the fallen man, if the divine had not been blended with the human” I just like to accept what God had done for me, making the impossible possible to give me salvation.
Doctrine of Salvation
Comments on Romans 4
Eric Ollila
Romans 4:3—"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness."
What was counted for righteousness? What is the “it” referring to? It is his belief. Abraham “believed” God, and “it” was counted unto him for righteousness. Therefore we could phrase it this way: Abraham’s belief was counted for righteousness.
Notice verse 9 clarifies it:
“Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumscision also? For we say that 'faith' was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.”
In other words, faith was attributed to Abraham for righteousness. Faith was assigned as an attribute of Abraham for righteousness. Abraham’s faith was counted as his righteousness.
Was the faith of Abraham a type of works? The answer is NO. Why? Because Romans 4:5 clearly says that “to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.” In other words, Paul is saying that the person whose faith is counted for righteousness “worketh not.” Quite simply, he does not work, he believes. Believing and working are two different things.
Rom. 4:5 (KJV)
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom. 4:9 through Rom. 4:23 (KJV)
Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? For we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness. 10How was it then reckoned? When he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. 11And he received the sign of circumcision, [as] a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had [while he was still] uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed [attributed or credited] unto them also: 12And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised [which he had while he was still uncircumcised]. 13For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness [that is] of faith. 14For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. 16Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. [In other words, Abraham was made the father of many nations by God. God made Abraham the father of many nations. The God who made Abraham the father of many nations is the God that resurrects the dead, He gives life to things that have no life, and He calls things that are not even in existence, as though they already existed.]
[Having faith in this God that calls things that are not in existence as though they already existed, Abraham, who is the father of us all,] 18…against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, so shall thy seed be. 19And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah’s womb: [in other words he didn’t worry about his own physical limitations or the physical limitations of Sarah. He did not even stop to consider that with his body it was impossible to be a father when he was deciding whether to have faith in God’s promises or not. Nor did he allow the consideration of Sarah’s limitations to be a mother, determine his faith in God’s promises. The thought of his body not being able to do the job was not taken into account when determining whether he would believe God’s word or not] 20He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; 21And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. 22And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Notice that Abraham was fully persuaded that what God had promised to do, God was also able to perform. If God wanted to cause Abraham and Sarah to have children, Abraham had faith that God could do it because God is the Creator. He can do all things. Because of this belief in God, verse 22 says “therefore it [his belief] was imputed to him for righteousness.”
And the beauty of it all is this:
Rom. 4:23 through Rom. 4:25 (KJV)
23Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; 24But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Marvelous, simply marvelous is the Great God, Lord of heaven and earth!!!
The BRI article on “Christ saved the Human race” touch on a number of important points; one is that we belong to Christ because he purchased us through his death. This presupposes that we were owned by Satan. I am not sure I understand how Satan can claim ownership of the human race because of Adam’s sin, but it is significant enough for Jesus to die on the cross of Calvary to redeem mankind.
Some may ask that; since due to one man’s sin all died automatically with out any effort of their own, why then can’t all received salvation through Jesus’ death with out any effort of their own? Paul seems to be rhetorically asking the same question in Romans 3:3. What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it?
It is interesting to note that although paid the price for us He also has to make an effort to rescue us. Human is in such bondage by Satan that he has to be persuaded to accepted the salvation that is offered by Jesus. It seems to me that it takes the sacrifice of Jesus plus the continuous prompting and guiding of the Holy Spirit to save man.
In the book E G white and salvation in the chapter dealing with testimonies, the concept of perfection is addressed and how it relate to working for our salvation or only believing in Jesus. Does belief demands perfection? James and Ellen white did not think so, for the realized that they were not perfect. Paul states it in Romans 3:10 as it is written, "There is none righteous, not even one.”
I conclude that salvation is a fee gift From God to man, man’s only effort is to that gift which when accepted by man is exhibited through his works.
Rudolph Sterling
Matena Kefa O.
Reflection on the doctrine of salvation:
According to Paul in his letter to the Romans and the Biblical Research Institute document one, there are several ways of understanding the doctrine of justification, different ways to present the subject and a fair deal of considerations among Christians today. In Chapter 1 of Romans, verse 1-15, Paul labors to introduce his agenda to the group of Christians in Rome. Actually verses 16-18 marke the introduction of his thesis on justification. the satet of affairs was wanting more especially to those in the Gentile world.
Paul begins by saying that he could not be ashamed of the gospel for it is the power of salvation to all mankind. The gospel is the power of salvation, without the power of God, the gospel could be just meaningless to the universe. He goes ahead to say that it is to only those who who believe.
Jews and gentiles now stand on the same level, where there is none superior then the other for by Christ they are equall. Our misery and ruin beng the product and consequence of our iniquities, that which will show us the way of salvation must salvation the way of justification and actually the gospel does it. It is the rightousness of Christ, who is God resulting from a satisfaction of infinite value set forth to reconcile the humanity.
It is said to be from faith to faith - meaning continually depending upon God all throughout the Christian experience, with a view of being part and parcel of that glorification soon to take place as the salvation history of mankind will enter into a climax. As Adam before the fall, to the faith of depending upon a Mediator, and so dealing with God, same way, becoming true Christians in our endeavours. Faith is all in all, both in the beginning and in the progress of the Christian journey. It is not from faith to works as if faith puts us into a justified state and then works, preserves and mantaines us in it, but it is all along faith to faith.
Matena Kefa O.
In Romans 2, Paul begins yet another part of his series.In chapter 1, he addressed the Jews mainly, but in this second one, he addresses the problem of judgement,God's role in judgemeny,law and judgement, the insufficiency of the law and finally outward inward circumcision.Paul says in verse 5 that those who judge are storing up wrath for the day of God's judgement.According to Paul, when God judges, both righteousness and wrath are revealed.God gives to each according to what he or she has done.For those who do good,this means eternal life;those who do evil,it will mean wrath or God's anger.This confirms salvation by works.How are we to marry this picture of judgement as the reward for either good or evil,works with the concept that we are not saved on the basis of our good works? Is faith the means by which Christians enter salvation? and works the way they stay in salvation?Paul makes it clear that all are sinners and stand under God's wrath(3:23).There is no one person who will be declared righteous by obseving the law.The best the law can do is to make us aware of what sinners we are(3:20).Paul continues to suggest that God's final judgement by affirming God's impartiality.Earlier Paul proclaimed the fact that the gospel was for the Jews first and then for the Gentiles(2:9).He reiterates that glory, honor, and peace will come to all who do good first for the Jew and the for the Gentiles(v.10).The privilege of the gospel brings responsility.God's selection of a special people was never intended as an act of favourism.Different groups of people have different roles to play in God's plan of salvation.God's impartiality and lack of favourism shows that we are all in the same boat- that of sin tossed about in the angry waves of God's wrath.
Name: Desmond C. Haye
My views on the “Bigger Model of Salvation”
As I sat and listened to the discussions in class regarding the free salvation that God has given, I am challenged. This challenge arises out of the unending discussion on what our dear professor Dr Hanna terms “splitting ears” over minute word meanings. The parties involved in this unending saga are merely warring over words to no avail. This “war” is doing more harm in eroding the foundation that has been laid by our pioneers. While we must not be stagnant in our understanding of salvation, we need not become extremist or pharisaical in the new perspectives we present. We must endeavor to deal fairly with the issues at hand without compromising our fundamental principles. We must ever seek to exalt the word of God as the foundation of our understanding of salvation.
I am excited about the bigger model. I believe there are merits to us developing and utilizing such a model. Hopefully, it will help to ease the tension that now exists and bring us to deeper levels of understanding of the salvation plan; but the question arises as to where and when should we begin? What are the advantages, and possible disadvantages that that we might encounter in this bigger model? And should we achieve a model that is so broad that it encompasses all the views in christendom what would be the our perspective as Seventh-day Adventists? And what would we call others from, or would that be necessary at all seeing that our bigger model includes all others? Furthermore, when we arrive at this bigger model will it lead to complacency among us?
I posit that if a bigger model of salvation is achieved and our uniqueness as a people is lost, then this model would have failed. In this model certain fundamental principles must be laid down namely:
a) Jesus is the basis of our salvation (Acts 4:12)
b) Justification, Sanctification and Glorification with there past, present and future implications are crucial building blocks in this bigger model (Rom.4:25; 3:28; Heb 10:10:1 Thess. 5:13; Rom8:30 et. al)
c) Faith and perseverance are vital conditions for Salvation (Acts 16:31; Matt 10:22)
d) It must be understood that we have a divine guarantee in Jesus, “an inheritance that is incorruptible and undefiled…..” (1 Pet. 1:4-5).
e) Salvation is by grace alone; however God works through our work (Phil 2:12-13)
While the foregoing are all fundamentals, and by no means exhaustive it is necessary that mention be made of them less we forget. I am excited about this bigger model of our understanding of salvation, and effort must be made to challenge one another towards achieving it so that we can grow in our understanding of salvation. So let us talk bigger and better on Soteriology.
“Some Theological Considerations of Perfection”
Edward Heppenstall
“With all the biblical counsel to be perfect, nowhere do we find the believer claiming to have reached sinless perfection even though he is designated as ‘perfect’ [mature].”
This is basically another one of those BRI articles that is trying to straighten out “historical Adventists” from thinking that salvation comes by being “perfect,” as in, “sinless.” Heppenstall makes it clear that number one: the Greek word for “perfect” in the Bible does not mean sinless, but rather spiritually mature, and number two: we are only saved through the grace of Jesus.
Chapter 5 on Ellen White on Salvation
This chapter makes clear that the doctrine of salvation is not set in a vacuum. Rather, it relates with the Adventist beliefs of the Great Controversy, Closing Events and the Law.
The Great Controversy theme is key, in that it points to the profound balance between grace and law, as does EGW’s understanding of the doctrine of salvation.
Romans 4
“It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith” (Romans 4:13).
In this chapter Paul once again deals with circumcision, and the idea that righteousness only comes through faith—not through keeping the law.
I wonder, with this and other chapters in Romans, how much has Martin Luther shaped our preconceptions when approaching this book?
My comment is in regard to Walter (9/24/07 2:55pm):
I agree that Rodriguez (like many of the BRI writers) seemed to be splitting hairs in this article. However, there are some verses of the Bible that one could use to point to a doctrine of universalism: 1 Cor. 15:12, Col. 1:20, Rom. 5:18, for example . . . These verses may not have the word “justified” in them, but they could lean one to further investigate the idea of God’s grace saving all.
Class: Doctrine of Salvation
Assignment: Reading Reflection Report #2
By: Eric Ollila
Book: Understanding Scripture
Chapter: Chapter 1--“Historical background of Adventist Biblical Interpretation”
Author: Alberto R. Timm
The author, in his study, states that Christian churches were originally built upon the hermeneutical platform of the Bible as its own interpreter. Soon after the church began to lose hold of this platform and began accepting non biblical hermeneutical principles.
The chapter highlights some major hermeneutical turning points within the Christian Church. This larger backdrop is then used to provide a background of the Seventh-day Adventist approach to interpreting Scripture. (pg. 1).
Alberto Timm, on Judaism to Christianity, highlights that the Babylonian captivity of Israel marked a “defining historical land mark” for the Jewish religion. (pg 1). The reason they were taken into captivity was because of their disobedience to the law and warnings of the prophets. Thus afterward, they tended to shift toward “a more rigid obedience” to the law and Sabbath as defined by tradition.
Three distinctive approaches to Scripture developed within the geographical, cultural and religious context of Judaism. Rabbinic Judaism, Hellenistic Judaism, and the ascetic Qumran Community with their eschatological tenor. (pg. 2). “Christianity was born within the context of Rabbinic Judaism.” (pg. 2).
Christ and his disciples emphasized the exclusive authority of Scripture over all other sources of religious knowledge. He condemned certain traditions that nullified the word of God. “He also opposed any cultural accommodations of the word of God that would nullify its power.” (pg. 2).
However, with time post-Apostolic Christianity compromised its faithfulness to the Word and accommodated Greco-Roman culture and thus the allegorical method of Bible interpretation crept in.
It was interesting to me that the reformation was a “hermeneutical reformation.” The Bible was restored to its central place—above tradition. It was also interesting that “while Hellenistic Jews and medieval Christians employed the allegorical method to accommodate the Bible toward the respective cultures in which they lived, modern rationalists developed the historical-critical method to accommodate the Bible backwards to the ancient cultures in which it was produced.” (pg. 4).
When applied to the Bible, the historical-critical method led many to reinterpret its references to miracles and to supernatural interventions as human rhetorical devices and it message as obsolete in the modern scientific setting.
It seems that each time there is a reform; it is based on hermeneutical principles. There seems to be a correction. Furthermore, it seems that from the time of Christ through the dark ages, the pure hermeneutical principles of Christ were lost sight of. The reformers rediscovered those principles and sub-sequent reformers tend to further clarify and expand them.
Articles Read: “Some Problems with Legal Universal Justification”
by Angel Manuel Rodríguez
Romans 4
Ellen White On Salvation, Chapters 4.
It’s unsettling to think that we are born as sinners and basically guilty before God before we perform any actions or are even conscious of our own existence. The fact that “in Adam” we all became sinners even though we never sinned after the manner of Adam makes the idea of Legal Universal Justification appealing. This “objective justification” would seem to “make up” for the “objective condemnation” that we received from Adam. Since Jesus is the Second Adam then this would all seem logical. Except that it doesn’t fit with what the scriptures teach.
I agree with Rodriguez that there are some serious problems with the views of Legal Universal Justification and the “in Christ” motif in Paul’s writings cannot mean that we were in some way mystically present in either Adam or Jesus. Yet, I think that deep in the human heart the idea that we were born sinners without a choice causes us to seek to justify God’s action and make Him seem fair, and Legal Universal Justification would surely seem to do this.
But again, this will leave out human choice since we would be justified even before we had a chance to choose to follow God’s way. In trying to solve one problem we’ll only be creating another problem.
In Romans 4, Paul argues that both Jews and Gentiles are justified by faith because Abraham was counted righteous even before he was circumcised. It’s interesting that James also uses the same example of Abraham to teach the importance of works. (James 2:21-23) If the writings of both James and Paul are considered canonical then we must have a large enough model of salvation to fit in both ideas of righteousness by faith and the importance of works. To take Paul’s views at the exclusion of James (not that Paul didn’t teach the importance of works) you can easily come up with an unbalanced view.
Much like the great reformer Martin Luther did when he referred to James as an “epistle of straw” because James emphasized works. Martin Luther himself went as far as to say that God incites man to sin through the devil that God may apply His grace! Shows how a too small a model can lead to extreme and dangerous views.
Ellen White emphasized Christian perfection but she also understood that she had a long way to go to get there. She herself didn’t claim to be perfect and often mourned her faults. This shows that while we realize the high ideals that God has for us and teach them this doesn’t mean that our personal experience can show this ideal. In fact, the great paradox is that the closer we come to Christ and the more like Him we become the more we would realize how unlike Him we really are. Hence, the more “saved” we are, the more “lost” we’ll feel.
Every I have to read Romans Chapter 4 and really reflect on the Apostle’s theology and look at it
realistically; I cannot help but ask why am I suffering for the sinners of Adam and Eve. Perhaps, if
given the opportunity as they were given, I would have chosen to obey. The other side of the coin
though, is that through one man’s sacrifice (objective justification) all are made just does bring some
balance to the argument. The former clearly indicate the devastating effect of sin and its universal
consequences, the latter unequivocally indicates the enormity of the sacrifice the second Adam was
willing to pay for our sin. There is nothing mystical I believe, about the transference of Adam’s sin
to all of his descendants. This is easy to understand for those of us who are parents when we observe
our own genetic inclination in our offspring. Indeed Christ died to remove the inclination and habits
we obtained through the first Adam. The questions are: has Christ atonement covered our
wretchedness without the necessity of human response in order to receive? Are we saved because
Christ died and no matter what choices we make we are already covered by the atoning sacrifice at
Calvary?
Christ’s death on Calvary is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of humankind. This sacrifice is
provision for the sinner to live, if the sinner never accepts the offer he cannot be saved. If Christ died
that we might live, His death will be in vain if his sacrifice does not elicit a human response.
Material Covered: BRI Article: Why Did Jesus Die? How God Saves Us—by George Reid
In this article, Reid attempts to shed light on a number of questions about why Christ had to die for us. His major argument responds to the contentions made by Peter Abelard a few hundred years ago. Abelard suggests that Christ came to earth not to die for the sinner, but to demonstrate the true character of God. Abelard viewed sin not as a violation of God’s law, but as a misunderstanding of God’s affection. As a result, atonement was, “described principally in terms of enlightening us about His purpose.” This sounds like an age old theory that doesn’t hold much water anymore. However, it seems as if these old principles are finding new legs among some of our people. I wonder if we sometimes take a similarly soft view of sin that minimizes our focus on the gravity of sin, and instead teaches us that we need not worry about sin and just need to focus on understanding the true character of God. Most likely, no one would overtly agree with Abelard’s view, yet what is the homiletical influence inferring? Obviously, Abelard was right in suggesting that Christ came as an example for us, yet that is only part of the picture. The Bible also teaches that Christ came to earth to ransom us and die in our place. But this raises an interesting question. Did God have to pay off the devil (with a ransom) to win back humanity? Of course this idea seems completely ridiculous. Instead of even looking at that idea, Reid rightly focuses on the idea that God initiated and executed the plan of salvation. He took energetic and direct action to eliminate the sin problem once and for all. To me, this is the bottom line. Even though I spend all kinds of time studying the ways of God, and trying to learn intricate theology, it refreshes my soul to point out that God is deliberately and passionately pursuing my soul. He has put everything in place to insure that I have every opportunity to connect with me. For this, I am truly greatful.
Articles: “Some problems with Legal Universal Justification,” Romans 4, chapter 4 “Ellen White and Salvation”
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ.” (Rom.3:23, 24) The desperate state to which man has fallen is made plain by the fact that we have all sinned. Through one man Adam we all became inheritors of this destitute and depraved condition. But through one man Christ we can all be justified and restored. The article under consideration makes the potent point that we are justified by grace through the redemption of Christ. The article highlights the objective and subject nature of justification and raises many questions in the mind of the reader. How should we understand the “in Christ motif” in Paul’s writings? How should we really view the objective and subjective justification?
These are some issues that I am wrestling with, and praying for God’s wisdom. I believe though that Christ has made us righteous through his sacrifice for our sins, and that settles it for me.
Romans 4
Paul argues in this chapter about Abraham’s justification, which he declares is by faith. He does not indicate or argue against the need to do good works which is apart of the whole salvation plan. He states that Abraham “believed God” and it was counted unto him for righteousness. What was inherent in this belief of Abraham? Did he believe in the sacrifice of Christ by faith? As I reflected upon the passage under consideration I came to the conclusion that that the mere fact that Abraham’s faith was reckoned to him as righteousness does not mean that faith possesses in itself some merit that can earn justification. To me it was Abraham’s attitude, his faith in God that made him righteous. It was his faithful acceptance of the atonement and the righteousness of Christ in place of his own unrighteousness that was credited to him for righteousness. Thank God that we too can be partakers of Christ righteousness.
This astounding fact impacted me more forcefully as I read about James and Ellen White’s compelling testimonies. It was very clear that the Whites saw perfection as growth in grace. While Ellen’s Methodist background impacted on her understanding of perfection, she was very careful on how she presented her views. She earnestly spoke of the need of pressing on by faith to the goal of the high calling in Christ. This early perspective on perfection helped to form a balance between justification and sanctification in her writings.
In order to arrive at a biblical understanding regarding the subject of salvation there must be a comparison of scripture with scripture or spiritual things with spiritual things as the Bible itself suggests. In other words, all the biblical data on this subject must be carefully analyzed and be understood in their context. On the one hand, Paul in Romans emphasizes salvation by faith and not by works. As is shown in Romans 4 he uses the experiences of Abraham and David in the Old Testament to substantiate that a person receives salvation by faith and not by works. On the other hand, James uses the same experience of Abraham in the Old Testament to authenticate that works play a crucial part in the salvation process. We know that scripture is not at variance with scripture but here we have Paul saying that a man receives salvation only by faith while James seems to be saying that a man cannot be saved without works. Is it that Paul is contradiction to James and vice versa? I posit that it is not a matter of contradiction but a matter of understanding where the perspective of the biblical writers lied. One of the first works of a Jew was circumcision and during Paul’s time, the Jews argued that a Gentile had to be circumcised in order to receive salvation. However, Paul seeks to bring clarity to this misunderstanding by highlighting that even before Abraham was circumcised God accepted him; James on the other hand was addressing another form of misunderstanding in the sense that there was great emphasis on faith without the involvement of works. For example, a brother who was hungry went to another brother for help instead of assisting that hungry brother he told him to have faith in God, James point here is that it is not sufficient to tell a person to have faith in God but also to assist this person wherever possible. In reviewing, the two perspectives both are presenting a balance view on salvation. Therefore, Paul was addressing salvation by faith based on where his perspective lied while James on the other hand was addressing the importance of works in the salvation process based on where his perspective lied. What is needed as we explore these doctrines of faith is balance, or a comprehensive model, as Dr. Hanna would put it. Infact this is what Woodrow points out in chapter 5 that Ellen maintained in her writings, “balance between law and grace, God’s justice and mercy”, etc.
Week 4 Submission
I am sorry for the late submission but my husband had the flu this weekend. This week I read the article Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10 by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez as well as the required chapters in Romans and EGW on Salvation. The article was really just a repeat of what I read last week. It came to the same conclusions and was fighting against some of the same ideas that where mentioned in the last article so I really don’t have anything to say about it. I did find some really interesting things in Whidden’s book. He outlines the three deception of the Devil. “1. God is arbitrary and unfair to require obedience to His Law, since this law could not be obeyed. 2. Mercy is swallowed up by justice, as humans cannot be forgiven by such a just God.... 3. God’s mercy destroyed justice, with the result that Christ’s death abrogated the Father’s law.” (pg.36)
I have noticed that the Devil deals in absolutes. His deceptions are that something has to be either one way or the other. There is no middle ground. I see the same thing happening with the conservative and liberal sides of Adventism. Both think that they are more holy than the other. The Conservatives are saying that they stand for the Truth and Law and yet they often don’t have the love of God. The Liberals have gotten a little lax on the law and truth but claim to love their neighbor more than the Conservatives. When it really comes down to it there is a balance between both sides that both sides miss. If the Devil can keep us fighting and picking sides we will never be able to see what God really wants for us the middle ground. As Dr. Hanna is fond of saying, it is both. As Whidden says, “Satan is seeking to pervert both law and grace by denying one or both as essential to the understanding of God’s character of love.” I would like to know what the class thinks about this. I am finding that the more I know about God the more I know I don’t know.
A Response to Chapter 2 of Woodrow W. Whidden’s Ellen White on Salvation. I enjoyed Whidden’s research into the background of Ellen White’s experience with the subject of salvation. His research revealed several different experiences that shaped Ellen White’s view of salvation.
Growing up in Maine, at 12 years old Ellen White heard William Miller preach series of lectures at the Buxton camp meeting in …about Christ’s second coming. After hearing his appeals for the congregation to prepare their hearts for Christ’s return, Ellen found herself feeling as though she would never be worthy enough to be called a child of God. This was her first spiritual crisis, but she was determined to seek the Lord with all her heart to receive pardon for her “sins”. She earnestly and persistently sought the Lord with all her heart…she longed for the assurance that God had forgiven her sins…she acknowledged her helpless condition…and at that point she felt her burdens lifted from her…a joy…a lightheartedness filled her heart. You know I think we should encourage this same sort of seeking…I’m not so sure that we should gather the idea that Ellen White simply didn’t have a proper understanding of “Righteousness by Faith” at the time.
In addition to this spiritual crisis, she grew up in a time when the Methodist had a revival in their church called the “Holiness” movement. Once a person gave their life to Jesus, they were to continue seeking a deeper conversion…searching their hearts to be surrendered of absolutely everything…through this earnest praying and Bible study, a faithful Methodist would enter into what they called “entire sanctification” or the “second blessing” experience.
Sounds like we should adopt this “second blessing” teaching in our own church! It’s my understanding that every believer or every true follower of Jesus needs to have this sort of “spiritual crisis”…this time of humbling oneself, acknowledging one’s helpless condition, before being filled with the Holy Spirit. You know we might just have revival in the Adventist church, if we as a people approached God in this manner.
Whidden comments that Ellen White’s misunderstanding of Righteousness by Faith at this point in her experience, caused her great distress. I understand what Whidden is saying, but at the same time, I’m not sure if he can pinpoint her struggle to the spiritual climate and/or persuasion of her day. Maybe he’s not trying to…maybe I’m reading that wrong.
But I think every follower of Jesus must journey through a “midnight of the soul” experience…a time where they wrestle with God, as did Jacob.
Granted she wrote more about “holiness of heart and life” in her early writings, and then seemed to emphasize sanctification as the work of a lifetime in following years. But I believe Ellen White would have had this same experience today. Jesus tells us in John 16:7, 8 that He will “…send Him (the Helper…the Holy Spirit) to you. And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. So as the Holy Spirit moved on her, she was convicted of her sins, she was convicted of what righteousness was, she was convicted of the judgment.
We all begin with less than an imperfect knowledge of God, whether we are 12 years old or 80…but as we receive the revelation of His character in the life of His Son Jesus, by studying His Word and communing with Him in prayer… we grow to know the Father as a loving and merciful God, willing to save to the uttermost. We move from fear to love…don’t get me wrong… Paul tells us in Philippians 2:12 to “…work out your own salvation with fear and trembling”…so I believe we are to maintain that awe-some reverence for God, but we should constantly be growing in our knowledge of His love. I believe ever Christian has to journey through this experience.
We need “holiness of heart and life” in our church today. True sanctification is a work of a lifetime, but I wonder if the revival we all want, so bad, isn’t waiting our return to focus on Jesus and His desire to give us “holiness of heart and life”.
Wayne Moten
Materials read: Christ Saved the Human Race, Ellen White on Salvation, chpt. 3, and Romans 3
In the chapter titled”The Decade Before 1888” Ellen White went through great lengths to share her view justification, and perfection. She, like she did decades before, shot down the holiness fanaticism view on perfectionism. According to the White’s observation this view supported the belief that people was so holy that they were in a position where they could not sin and that they had no need of the Lord’s Prayer. In rebuking one Brother Brown, who was teaching that it was impossible for anyone to keep God’s law and the Ellen White views on salvation was that people can only be saved by the law, she declared that salvation by obedience and without obedience to the law is impossible. She declared that people are only justified by faith in the merits of Christ.
She strongly opposed the legal justification which was the belief that since Christ died for all that all will
be saved, despite whether someone wants to be saved or not. Sadly, this view or a similar one is being
taught by some of our well known and trusted Bible scholars. According to Romans 3, it is not alright for
us to break the law simply because we have been justified. It is because we have been justified that we
ought to keep the law. The BRI document uses a lot of quotes to explain what Ellen White meant by
salvation, justification, and sanctification in Christ’s role of saving the human race. While it is true that
Christ died for the entire human race, it is equally true that no one will be saved against his or her direct
will and/or disobedience to Christ’s Commandments. Since the human race was estranged from God by
Adam’s disobedience, Christ bridged the gap between God and humanity and made God accessible to us
by His sinless life, death, burial, and resurrection. It will do every Bible scholar and every believer to
continue to do extensive studies on justification, sanctification, and salvation before anyone submit a
concrete belief that his or her ideas are correct and state them as facts. It will do well for every Bible
student to take Dr. Hanna’s advice and adopt his philosophy about any and every subject, even in
making decisions about life and that is to look at the subject wholistically.
The role of works is discussed in Romans 4 and Paul tells us what works are not. He is saying that they don’t earn salvation because then they are counted as debt. It is interesting that Paul says the one who does not work but believes is the one accounted righteous. This seems to go against what Paul says in Romans 2. I think that Paul is fleshing out his understanding of salvation so he has to look at it from different angles. Verse 25 says, “(Jesus) who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.” I never caught that phrase before at the end of the verse. That he was raised for our justification seems to show the importance of the resurrection in the salvation process. Often the cross is what is focused on when people talk about salvation. Yes, Friday is very important, but what about Sunday. I think of the imagery of dying with Christ that Paul uses. He talks about our old lives dying and that we get a new life in Christ. The lack of focus on the resurrection may explain one part of why many churches do not expect much change out of the members of their church.
I appreciate that James White emphasized righteousness by faith in his messages that he gave. I have heard about Ellen White talking about this subject and I have been blessed by this theme through Steps to Christ and the Desire of Ages. But the picture that I have had of James White is that he was a serious man who worked himself to the bone and just focused on doctrine. I am glad that it was pointed out that Ellen White did not have an attitude of spiritual superiority since she wrote about a high Christian standard.
I think that it is sad that people often miss the forests for the trees when they miss the theme that runs through Ellen White’s writing is God’s transforming grace. I want to encourage Adventists to use Ellen White in way that lifts up Christ rather than whacking people over the head or getting into meaningless debates.
Week Four
Heather Barbian
Romans 4: This chapter was on Abraham’s righteousness apart from works through faith. My question is in verse 15, what does Paul mean when he says, “where there is no law there is no transgression” when in his prior chapters he says that where there is not law their conscience condemns them?
Whidden, Woodrow W. “James and Ellen: Their Personal Testimonies” from: Ellen White on Salvation. Berrien Springs: R&H Catalog Service.
Justification and sanctification were themes of Ellen and James White. James wanted to emphasize Christ more and Ellen “hungered and thirst after righteousness”. She also realized that sanctification was a process and perfection was always out of her reach.
Rodríguez, Ángel Manuel. Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White
http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/Adam&Humanity.htm
Rodriquez finds that “there is something indescribably and awfully wrong with us and with the world in which we live and that the Scriptures trace it back to the fall of Adam and Eve into sin”. He finds the consequences to sin to be separation from God, loss of privileges, slavery to sin and death and misery. I wonder though if God made the world why couldn’t he have made it so his justice could be satisfied without a blood sacrifice. If God can do anything, why do it this way?
10/1/07
Articles Read:
• “Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal ‘Legal’ Justification”
by Larry J. Kane
• “Ellen White on Salvation”
by Woodrow Whidden, Chapter 5
• Romans 3-5
In this article, Larry Kane sets forth to debunk the doctrine of a universal “legal” justification as set forth by the 1888 Message. This doctrine states that “Christ’s death at the cross accomplished a legal or objective justification which is universally and unconditionally applied to all men.” This legal justification is also known as “corporate” justification and differs from “experiential” justification or justification by faith. The text in question here is Romans 3:23, 24. Dr. E. J. Waggoner, one of the contributors to the 1888 message, in his book “Christ and His Righteousness”, sees Jesus’ sacrifice as extending legal justification for all men, the entire human race. Waggoner sees all men, whether converted or not, with their legal status before God adjusted to reflect Christ’s imputed righteousness. Kane, in this paper, argues that if this were the case, why would John 3:18 and other Biblical passages speak of the individual as not being condemned if he believes. Thus it stands that Christ’s sacrifice is not one which gives unconditional legal justification to everyone, but instead it offers it to everyone. By faith we accept Christ’s legal justification when we are repentant and agree to allow him to change our will and desires. The growth which proceeds from this point forward is done through belief and trust in Jesus. The Bible records that Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness. We further understand and evidence this by the obedience of Abraham. So it is with us, our belief in God is evidenced by our obedience and trust and this is credited to us as righteousness. This daily walk of obedience with God is one of sanctifying power; and this sanctification process continues for a lifetime. I agree with Kane that the justification part of this whole process is not an unconditional universal legal justification. It is made available to those who accept it by faith.
Fourth week Refelection
Romans 4
Chapter 4 - James and Ellen: Their Compelling Personal Testimonies
BRI – “In Adam/in Christ” Motifs
I enjoyed deeply the readings for the week wherein Paul in Romans 4 has emphasized the “RIGHTEOUSNESS OF FAITH” (I am reading from the NSAB) and its implications for those (sinners) who has it, applies it, and put it at work. For example, Abraham believed in the Lord, obeyed Him and his faith was credited for him as righteousness while he was uncircumcised. The promise given him was to be received both by him and his descendants through the “righteousness of faith.” Many times in this chapter (vv. 5, 9, 11, 13, 16) Paul has repeatedly used the phrase “righteousness of faith”, does this mean faith has righteousness in itself?
Abraham (v.20) “did not waiver in unbelief but rather GREW STRONG IN FAITH, giving glory to God.” For me, faith is alive and possesses the characteristics of its giver. The possessor in turn submits to it and puts it into action to believe without a doubt, benefits as it receives the righteousness that active faith brings. The credit/debit issue is not for man to declare but to the giver of faith (God) depending on the action/reaction of the receiver/possessor.
Reflecting further in my readings, I tried to contemplate on Eph. 2:8-10 stating that salvation brought about by Grace through Faith “is the gift of God.” I just can’t thank God more than giving me a heightening appreciation of his gift of salvation every time I had a chance to study it deeper.
On the other hand, both James and Ellen White had vowed that as long as there’s life in their being they will keep sharing the doctrine of “Justification by faith” and ames had seen it more benefiting for all the people if Ellen would use the pen more heavily that travel and speaking, which turned to be true, that because of her writing until now we could hear her speaking the truth of “justification by faith.”
Coupled with this, Ellen confessed that despite of the fact that she has aspired for the highest goals of sanctification in life she never self-declared perfect, due to the presence of short comings, she repeatedly said that she’s not infallible. As a result of here justified life in Jesus, the Spirit has caused her to want herself hidden in Christ, to know the length, the breath, the height and depth of love, be assured that God was working through her, to be filled with the Spirit, has an earnest hunger and thirsting after righteousness, and deep sense of the need of God, His Spirit, and His grace every hour.
I love her highest goal in life: Live a “sanctified life without the sense of spiritual superiority”, known by her as “practical righteousness”. She wrote that “faith takes hold of the promise of God that works by love and sanctifies the souls.” So faith justifies and sanctifies. Constantly, she greatly emphasized on God’s great transforming power.
The BRI on the other hand, in the article written by Manuel Rodriguez, the 1888 Committee were shredded into fine pieces out of their stand and understanding of the terms “In Adam and In Christ”. I found myself siding with Dr. Rodriguez who sounded and factually very biblical in his expositions counter to seemingly traditional views of the 1888 committee. The author has concluded that the “imputation theory” is foreign to the Bible due to some misunderstanding or misuse of some Hebrew terms to support their “legal justification theory” which if not being careful the student will be led to Pagan Dualism and great confusion in the end. For him only the believers are the ones rightfully to be called to be in Christ. Those who do not believe, their case remain future until they actually believe or submit themselves to the gift of God. Simple yet profound.
Dan
Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered.
Rom.4:7
If we consider closely the experience of David’s sin in II Sam:11 we are
made aware of a plot to cover up. He acknowledges in Ps.32:3 When I kept silence, my bones waxed old through my roaring all the day long.
New American Standard translation explains: When I kept silent about my
sin, my body wasted away through my groaning all day long.
Sin is defined in I John 3:4 Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law; for sin is the transgression of the law.
“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For He that said, Do not commit ADULTERY, said also, Do not KILL. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law. ALL have sinned.
The bigger picture is to recognize that while one can obey the LETTER of the law; it is also possible to break the SPIRIT of the law. The effect is the same as sin.
Christ provided a bigger picture of the letter of the law, by speaking of its spiritual intent. “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old
time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman/man to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart” (Matt. 5:27-28). This speaks of the spiritual nature
of the law. “For we know that the law is spiritual…Rom 8:14..
Ellen G. White on Salvation, the Great Controversy Theme, Closing Events,and the Law stated: The very heart of her understanding of God is based on the eternal authority of God's law, which is the revelation of God's character of love(GC 493), but this love is not arbitrary and is full of mercy that is just in its expression.
Ellen White's most important comments relating to the close of probation and the time of trouble are found in The Great Controversy: "Those who are living upon the earth when the intercession of Christ shall cease in the sanctuary above are to stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator. Their robes must be spotless,their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling"(425).
comment on Geraldine O'neal assignment.
AFTER READING YOU COMMENT I HAVE
JUST A QUESTION FOR YOU.
WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT THE LETTER OF THE LAW OR THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW?
Materials Read: Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal Legal Justification, Conversion, Sanctification, and Early Ministry, and Romans 2 & 3
After reading the above material, I have come to the conclusion that many of the members of these well known and respected Bible research organizations don’t have and probably never will have all of the answers to certain Bible topics. Therefore, I don’t deem it necessary to repeat a lot of the things the article or the book says. The above article mentions the misunderstanding of Dr. Waggoner’s understanding of Justification by Faith. Further, I believe that many of the terms that these research institutions come up with should be left out of their published materials. A lot of people are sure to miss the message of what’s being said when all of these different terms, which have no meaning are used to support some theoretical or dogmatic view brought on by the research teams. The article brings out the subject of what is meant by the terms “Universal” and/or “Legal” Justification. It seems to me that both of these terms are misleading in trying to understand the subject of Sanctification and Justification in the light of salvation. At the same time, they can both be understood in the light of Jesus Christ. However, my understanding is that no one is justified by his or her own merits. If someone persists in sin with no intentions of making Christ his or her Savior, then how can he or she be justified. If someone decides to keep the law, this within itself does not render a person justified. The biggest problem I believe is misunderstanding what the Bible teaches on the subject, better alone what Paul said about the subject. Many of the things that Paul said about justification and sanctification need to be taken at face value and needs no study or research committee to try to figure out what he meant. However, there are some aspects of the subject that needs to be explored for our coming to logical conclusion by looking at it wholistically.
the primacy of the gospel committee report.
The development of our doctrines had been a process and matter of time. As I read more and more regarding Justification by faith, I come to understand that this doctrine in particular, brought more conflict than any other doctrine. Thinking on this topic, a question come to me; supposing that, if around the 1888 God have revealed the whole truth about justification by faith to Ellen White before Jones & Waggoner, where be any different?
I think that the fact on been a prophet the church could accept the message in a more simple way nevertheless the same questions could arise and create some problems. When Ellen White supported Jones & Waggoner her reputation as prophet was questioned, so I come to one conclusion, even when the church had a prophet God used other minister to bring light and clarify his truth.
Concerning to the paper written by Dr. Angel Manuel Rodriguez entitled: “Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E.G. White”, I found it very interested. I agree that the falling of our first fathers was a huge disaster that affected no only to them but its consequence is still affecting us. One aspect that I found interested is that after the fall of Adam, God came to offer him the salvation plan through Jesus Christ. Talking about this offer and the rule of Adam in accept it, E.G. White comment: “Then it was that the great love of God was expressed to us in one gift, that of His dear Son. If our parents had not accepted the gift, the race would today be in hopeless misery…” This is very important because it shows that God respect human beings’ s free will. There was a change that our parents could not accept it and as a consequence the death and hopeless misery. Thanks God they do accepted it. And it’s only through the sacrificial death of Christ as our substitute that there is hope for us today. “Because man fallen could not overcome Satan with his human strength, Christ came from the royal courts of heaven to help him with His human and divine strength combined. He obtains for the fallen sons and daughters of Adam that strength which it is impossible for them to gain for themselves…”
I love the encouraging promises in Romans 5:6,8. It is amazing to think that Christ died for us even while we are sinning against him. That is a humbling thought when we take time to think about it. In verse 10 it is saying that God reconciled us to him while we were still enemies with Him. That seems to go along with the 1888 idea of objective justification of all men. Also verse 18 where it says that “even so through on Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life” looks like it supports that teaching too. Verse 17 shows the subjective side of justification where it says that “those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. Here it is pointing out that God’s grace must be received. It seems that the verses remind me of Dr. Hanna calling us to have a bigger model of salvation to fit all the pieces.
The BRI document “Comments on the ‘In Adam/In Christ’ Motifs’” seemed to be a big deal over semantics in parts of it. I was surprised to see pointed out in it that when saying that a person was in Adam that what it is actually saying is that the person was realistically in Adam because God had breathed the breath of life into Adam. I thought that it might be twisting the words of the 1888 committee to say that they are saying this dualistic teaching. I agree with the BRI that it is the result of Adam’s sin that passed down to the descendants of Adam. I wondered if both sides were saying similar things in different ways and arguing over the meaning of the words. I am encouraged that God gives us the promise in Romans 5 that where sin abounded, grace abounded much more! It would be nice to see more attention on this when people look at this controversial topic. This tells me that the power of grace in our lives is more powerful than the power of sin and we have the choice to receive that grace each day. Let us take time to choose.
“Comments on the In Adam/In Christ Motifs”
Angel Manuel Rodriguez
“The idea that every human being was in Adam when he sinned is confusing and may lead to serious theological problems. In what sense was everybody in Adam? Obviously not in a physical sense because Adam was one single body. Once we rule out that possibility there are not many other options left. Our presence in Adam has, then, to be defined by the 1888 Study Committee as trans-physical. But in what sense was it trans-physical? They do not provide an answer to that question.”
This quote was the basic summary of the “In Adam” motif talked about. Furthermore, Rodriguez went on to deconstruct arguments for “in Christ” motifs having theological significance for people dying “in Christ.” This article is basically a response to the 1888 Study Committee and is another minute detail in the huge topic of salvation.
Chapter 6 on Ellen White on Salvation
“For Ellen White, depravity does not debase us to the point that God has to determine everything for us. She was not a Calvinist! She held that God never forces the will. But the effects of sin are so pervasive that we need God’s convicting, calling, converting, justifying, and empowering grace at every advancing step in our experience of salvation.”
In this chapter, the author makes it clear that Ellen White does not have a Calvinistic view of predestination. Nor does she have a “historical Adventist” view on perfectionism. Rather, she has a quite balanced view on the freedom God gives, and ultimately, God’s grace—the necessary ingredient for salvation.
Romans 5
“The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
What an amazing promise Paul gives us. So often theologians get hung up on “In Adam/In Christ,” without putting proper emphasis on where it is due in this passage—eternal life coming through the grace of Jesus Christ.
Salvation Submission Week 5
Greetings all, I had an interesting week reading the article. I read “Comments on the ‘in Adam/in Christ’ Motifs” by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez. He had some great theological points but there were some things that I picked up on in this article that I didn’t like so much. I have not read any of the 1888 study committee stuff but I found the slight antagonism that was in the article to be a little disturbing. He basically says that 1888 committee has not be clear on what in Adam and in Christ means, but then goes on to basically condemn them on the things that they might mean because those things are not Biblical. Well I am sorry but if you don’t know for sure what they mean then until you do give them the benefit of the doubt. I happen to agree that we don’t become guilty because Adam sinned but because we sinned. I do believe that because we are descendents of Adam that we have inherited a human nature that sins from it very youngest years. In some way we were cursed through Adam and restored through Christ. I am not sure where the 1888 study committee stands but in that light we were all in Adam at the fall and in Christ at his death. Through their lives we have been affected in ways that I don’t really think that any of us understand. Now let me make my position clear. I do not believe that we were in some way guilty because of Adam’s sin and made righteous because of Christ’s life. I believe that we were cursed through Adam’s sin and that through Christ living in us we are able to be made more and more like Him (restored). This is where I am on this issue. I think that the author wants so bad to refute the ideas that might be in Adam and in Christ that he has almost gone to the point of completely explaining away the texts that talk about it. This is one thing that scares me in the Adventist church. Too often we react so violently against one extreme that we fall into the opposite and just as wrong extreme.
Materials Read:
Romans Chapters 4, 5, & 6
Ellen White on Salvation, chapters 4 & 5
BRI Document: Comments on I Timothy 4:10
The ideas of the reading were: Justification, Perfection, and Salvation. There were some strong relations to the understanding of the material. In a sense, no one will receive salvation if he/she hasn’t been justified nor if he/she hasn’t received Christ’s perfection. The BRI document focus was on the interpretation and/or misunderstanding of I Tim. 4:10. This document addressed the misunderstanding of being saved and specially saved. The document brought out the point that this is highly misleading, which I agree with, because nowhere in the Bible will you read that some people are more saved than others. The belief that all people are saved or will be saved is a universalistic view brought on by those who refuse to accept that there are some people who are going to be eternally lost or brought on by those who refuse to read and study the Scriptures for themselves. It seems that the person who preached this text did not do an extensive study on the subject and gave his/her personal opinion about the text. So, is the text saying that since Christ died all will be saved but only those who do not reject that salvation will actually be saved? If this is true, then what will those who reject salvation are saved to or from? I agree with the article in that when the text says that Christ is the Savior of all men that it means He is the Savior of all sorts of people. However, at the same time, I believe that the text is also universal applicable. In other words, it has some universalism ideas about it. Yes, I believe that all will be saved. However, my idea continue with “all will be saved who wants to be saved” because the person will willingly submit his/her life to Christ and follow the divine plan that He has for his/her life
Articles Read: “Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10”
by Angel Manuel Rodríguez
Romans 5
Ellen White On Salvation, Chapter 5.
I could still recall as a school boy struggling with the idea that I was born into a world as a sinner without a choice in the matter of my birth and would be condemned to hell if I didn’t make a choice to follow God. I was baptized at the tender age of 11 but that question was still bothersome to me. (We indeed walk by faith and not by sight. If we waited until all our questions were answered before we chose to follow Jesus we’ll never start!)
Romans 5 came as a relief to me. Now I understood from Paul that the second, spiritual birth was like the physical birth except this time I had a choice in the matter. We come into this world as sinners without doing anything to “deserve” being born and we can be “born again” without doing anything to deserve sonship in God’s family.
This for me is the liberating message of Romans 5. Christ, the Second Adam gave humanity a second chance at the cross.
Romans 5: 20 states: “For as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners so also through the obedience of the one man many will be made righteous.” If “many” will be made righteous and not “all”, this would definitely throw out universalism. Grace would indeed “reign” but only for willing subjects.
As per Rodríguez article, 1 Timothy 4:10 is a difficult passage as it seems support a universal objective salvation. The last part of the text says, “Because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe." Rodríguez argues that the expression “Savior of all men” must indicate that salvation is available to all men and not that God will eventually save all men. Also, the only One through whom anyone can be saved is Jesus and in this sense He is the Savior of all.
The scriptures are just too clear on the judgment and the final rewarded of the wicked versus the righteous to entertain the doctrine that all humanity will finally be saved. Even if there are some difficult passages the preponderance of the scriptural evidence just silences that view.
As per Whidden, understanding Ellen White’s comments against the backdrop of the great controversy theme is very important. When we read Paul’s letters we are in effect just listening to one side of a conversation. When we read the Bible and Ellen White it’s always helpful to understand the background issues around which the prophets write. An emphasis on a certain subject may not indicate priority but present importance.
For example, if seminary students are not doing well in Greek, then there may be many tutors offering help in this subject. An outsider seeing so many tutorials offered for Greek may think that the seminary is placing a higher priority on Greek than say, homiletics. But this may simply mean that Greek is a tough language to learn.
The emphasis of Ellen White on a particular doctrine or teaching can be simply a response to another extreme view and not necessarily an elevation of that teaching over other teachings. Many statements she made about justification in response to an extreme legalistic emphasis but not against the importance of sanctification. Knowing the contextual background helps us to place ALL her teachings in balance.
Commenting on:
• BRI Doc: Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, “Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs”
• Romans 4, Class notes
• Whidden; Chapter 4, James and Ellen: Their Compelling Personal Testimonies
It was credited to Him…
There are so many ways to be confused about Salvation. (Gee… thanks Dr. Hanna). Of course, Dr. Hanna is careful to note that salvation is not credited to us upon our full understanding or model of salvation. Believe on the name, and you shall be saved. I accept that – and I believe that – but what does that statement mean in the scope of what all of the Bible has to say about salvation.
To think that justification was credited to a person, in this case that would be Abraham, makes for great questions (or confusion – depending on how you want to look at it). I mean, if Abraham was credited righteousness, then Abraham would seem to have possession of it. Possession of “righteousness,” that is. And so if he had it, maybe he can share it to others or lose it like someone loses their wallet on a NY train ride.
Paul speaks much Abraham being the Father “not only to those who are of the law but also to those that have faith like Abraham and so he is the father of us all.” And… what if Abraham shared it and subsequently lost it? Did he lose the righteousness, that “something” which he had possession of? And is he eligible for a replacement if he finds his copy of the “loss insurance” policy he received when he became the “proud” owner of righteousness?
But first… let’s consider a couple of terms from our trusty BRI document (which is not the official voice, just sponsored) Rodriquez does a great job in explaining the nebulous definitions of 1888’s use of “In Adam.” Basically “they” (the 1888 study committee and others) say that “in Adam” refers to the idea that because Adam sinned, we all sinned. Either because the “life” that placed in him from God was inclusive of all future generations. And so his sin in his “life” makes it sin in our “lives” as well.
The second term for consideration is “in Christ.” If we are to escape the result of our Adamized sin, we need to be “in Christ,” Because if we are “in Christ” we can be saved because of the righteousness that was in Christ. But of course… Christ never loses his righteousness.
Could we be “in Abraham” because of his role as our father? Could our Abraham-like righteousness gaining faith save us? Could “in-Abraham-ness” righteousness be lost?
My suspicion is that the answer is no… it can’t be lost because it was never a possession. I think that the credited righteousness was never “in Abraham” nor “of Abraham” to begin with. It was always the righteousness of/in Christ. We really can’t even have faith of being “in-Christ” for salvation. For if we were in-Christ, then when Christ died we were in Him and therefore we died on the cross with him. What’s wrong with that? Well… that would mean that Christ did not die for me but “we” (Christ and me “in-Christ) died for me. Notice the hint of my possessing righteousness?
No… I don’t think that we have any righteousness. We have only the mystery of faith. The belief that God became one among me and died for me such that I could have “righteousness.” Not having it as in possession but having it by faith and believing that it saves me somehow.
How Perfect is Perfect- Is Christian Perfection Possible
We are reminded that for the Christian, the most important thing in this life is to be in a right relationship with God. But how is this to be achieved? Paul tells us plainly in Philippians that our righteousness is “as filthy rags”. As Christians we find that even after many years of sincerely following Christ we still find ourselves practicing behaviors over which we though we had gotten the victory. This can be a discouraging prospect and many have discontinued their walk with Christ for this very reason. The biblical record is replete with men and women of faith who kept falling but because they were serious about their Christian walk would get up and continue their walk with Christ.
Since Jesus asks us to be perfect as our father in heaven is perfect- we are still seeking to find out just what this perfection means. Heppenstall reminds us that according to the scripture Abraham, Noah, and Job were declared pert yet they were not sinless. Paul repeats it over and over again; that even though he knows the right, and wants to do the right and is sincere about it he still finds himself doing what is wrong. And so he, Paul, continues to remind us that our righteousness is in Christ. Jesus Himself reminded us that we should abide in Him and He would abide in us. We must be careful to remember that even when our heart is regenerated and our life is transformed we cannot be perfect enough to obtain salvation. I must agree Edward Heppenstall that it is only us we remain covered by the perfect life of Christ that we will be saved.
R.Madden
Reflection by: Eric Ollila
Week of: October 1-6, 2007
Ellen White On Salvation
Woodrow W. Whidden II
Chapter 4—James and Ellen: Their Compelling Personal Testimonies
This chapter had some uplifting things in it that spoke to my heart. The first of which was a reminder that both James and Ellen were human. I found it encouraging to be reminded that other great men and women of faith had to battle the enemy every day, just as I have to do. They pressed on through trials and they gained precious victories through Jesus Christ. They did not have to remain where they were at, they were constantly being challenged and renewed by the transforming grace of Christ.
The experiences of Ellen White writing penitential letters, expressing personal information regarding the practical out workings of the Christian faith in her life reminded me that the closer we get to Jesus, the more keenly we become aware of our short comings. This makes us humble and it makes us realize our need of Christ even more.
The chapter showed a journey that the White’s were on together and personally, one on one with the Lord. The promises of God are key elements to righteousness by faith. They are like anchors to the soul that can grasp them with the hand of faith.
How does this tie into class? Obviously we have been discussing righteousness by faith and have been skimming the surface as to what it means and how justification, sanctification, and glorification relate to each other.
Chapter 4 simply shows a practical experience of what the Whites went through personally while walking in these truths. Keep looking to Jesus, trust is transforming grace, and don’t look back is what I take from it.
Reflection by: Eric Ollila
Week of: September 24-30
Ellen White On Salvation
Chapter 5: Salvation, the Great Controversy Theme, Closing Events, and the Law
This chapter outlines the idea that Ellen White emphasized the Great Controversy Theme as the backdrop for her theology. The Great Controversy Theme encompasses all of the history past, present, and future for a context in which the great sin problem and salvation have been set in.
This theme helps us see God in the beginning, before all things, from eternity all the way down through the creation of Lucifer and angels to the fall of Lucifer, during the fall of Lucifer, after the fall of Lucifer, the creation of man, the fall of man, the redemption of man, the pre-advent judgment, the second coming, the millennium, the great white throne judgment, the total eradication of sin and the devil, the new heavens and the new earth, and eternity with God and the redeemed.
This theme also helped place all of her teachings into a perspective which gave tremendous practicability for the here and now. It was a world view, yea cosmic view that allowed a clear articulation of theological truth that was pure and harmonious from start to finish.
One of the things that stands out in this chapter that ties in with class is the line “…Ellen White conceived of the law as being inextricably bound up with the expression of God’s character of love—a love that was conceived as both just and merciful.” (pg 38).
The Law of God is a written expression of who God is. You cannot separate the Law from God’s character or God’s character from the Law. Be careful not to twist that previous sentence into something it is not. I am not saying that the Law is God, or that God is the Law. No, the law is not God and God is not the law. The Law is simply a written expression of who God is. But, the point is just that—it expresses who God is. Therefore one cannot separate the Law from God’s character because God in a very real way is the Law in life form. God’s righteousness is witnessed by the Law and the prophets precisely because He is the perfect embodiment of the Law, the Law in living form. So in one sense the law is separate from God in that it is simply letters on stone. But in another sense, the Law is not separate from God because those letters on stone describe who God is and who God is is not separate from Himself. It’s who He is.
Thus this ties in with our class in that we are talking about Salvation. The purpose of Salvation is that God wants to save us and to restore us back into His moral image. Thus, if we are to be restored into His moral image, that necessarily means we must have characters like His. In order to have characters like God’s character, then our characters must be harmonious with the Law, because the Law is a description of His character.
Thus, the whole tenor of Scripture and the writings of Ellen White tell us What, Why, and How God takes sinners and gives them His character. It tells the process and the means of Grace by which He imparts His very own power to resist sin and to expel it from the soul.
Response by: Eric Ollila
Saturday, October 06, 2007
Response to: Daniel Ocampo Fourth Week Reflection
I too like the idea of “living a sanctified life without a sense of spiritual superiority.” This is an earnest passion I have, to live like this. This too has a balance to it. Sometimes the people of this world interpret any sort of display of Christianity as showing “spiritual superiority.” In other words, some people are just turned off if you even mention that you are a Sabbath keeper, or you don’t do certain activities because of your faith etc. They interpret that because you don’t do certain things they do, that you are looking down upon them.
But in reality, you may not be looking down on them at all. Today at church I heard a sermon dealing with “boasting in the Lord.” It was talking about the fact that we should not be proud, we need to be humble, but at the same time we should not be afraid to declare the benefits of serving the Lord. There are clear benefits to serving the Lord and living His lifestyle that are clearly superior to the ways of the world. It is therefore not “pride” that “boasts in the Lord” because of these things.
Anyhow, I agree with your comment and wanted to share these added thoughts on it.
Biblical Research Institute Doc: Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, “Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs”
• Romans 5,
• Whidden; Chapter 4, James and Ellen: Their Compelling Personal Testimonies
All my life looking on the issue of salvation, I thou
I am happy to learn that both Ellen and her husband James encountered the similar
struggles regarding the subject of justification, sanctification and glorification. The
question of what is perfection keeps recurring.
The Apostle Paul reasons that our faith in Jesus justifies us and gives us peace in our
relationship with the father. Christ has willingly sacrificed himself for all of humanity
so that we might live forever. Does Christ require us to do anything in order to accept
his gift of salvation or it’s a done deal? If he does require us to do anything how much
is enough to satisfy his sacrifice? If it’s a done deal does it mean we are saved forever
from the day we accept his offer? When we accept his salvation does that make us
perfect in his eyes?
In the first Adam we went astray or in fact he went astray and we are suffering for
the choices he made. In him we lost our right as heirs and we were destined to die
until the second Adam came and died in our behalf, so that we can have another
opportunity to live ‘perfect’ lives. In this chapter the Apostle seems to emphasize
that there is some security for the future (v.9) if we abide in Christ. However in v.10
it is interesting to note that we were justified before we knew Christ, hence it does
not appear that his sacrifice is contingent on our actions. It stands to reason therefore
that if we became sinners before we sinned, we may have become ‘saints’ before we
knew Christ. Verses 12-18 of the Chapter clearly states that as a result of one many
sin came to all, and thus death. It is stands to reason that as a result of Christ’s
death on Calvary we were all made clean. Therefore, the only requirement from God
might be to believe.
About "How Perfect is Perfect..." by Heppenstall
Man, was I blessed by reading this article. I enjoyed this one more than any other reading I have done thus far for this class. This is likely because of the my background/luggage on the topic of perfection. I really like the concrete examples he used of 'perfect men' of the Bible like Noah, Abraham, Job... who still needed forgiveness and reliance on Jesus. "A 'perfect' Christian is one whoes heart and mind are permanently committed to Christ..." (p. 2) Also his comment on genuine Christianity is going to stick for a long time: "To be a genuine Christian means faith IN Christ, fellowship WITH Christ, faithfulness TO Christ, fruitfulness FOR Christ." (p. 2, emphasis mine) Heppenstall covered the 'cheap grace' reaction/opposite problem to perfection by clearly calling for Christian 'victory over all known sin.' However, this 'does not mean sinlessness.' This became a pretty fine line to follow, but I think he presented a Biblical ideal to strive for, allowing us the same grace that great men of the Bible were allowed. His explanation of victory over sin vs. still having a 'sinful nature' was also very helpful and practical in my eyes. To be honest, I didn't find anything I disagreed with in this article. I thought it was solid, Biblical and true to life. Tell me what you think.
Week Five
Heather Barbian
Romans 5: This chapter tells us that we peace and joy since we have been justified by faith through Jesus Christ. This chapter also deals with the origin of sin with Adam and the end of Sin with Christ.
Whidden, Woodrow W. “Chapter Five: Salvation, the Great Controversy Theme, Closing Events and the Law,” from: Ellen White on Salvation. Berrien Springs: R&H Catalog Service.
This chapter discusses the other major doctrines that have had an impact on Ellen White’s view of salvation. These other doctrines include the great controversy theme, closing events, law, sin, the atonement and the nature of Christ. These doctrines show the balance between the law and the work of Jesus as well as justice and mercy. Personally I find that law, sin and atonement effect my view of salvation the most.
Kane, Larry J., Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification.
http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/Universal%20Justification.htm
This essay by Kane discusses legal justification in the context of the 1888 Message Study Committee. It deals mainly with the texts Romans 3:23-24, Romans 5:12-18 and Romans 8 used to establish legal justification. The main problem in using these texts in this way is that this interpretation violates hermeneutical principles such as reading in context and understanding what the author meant to say. I find that we want for everyone to be saved and feel as though God’s goodness and mercy is questioned when some end up in hell. Personally I want every one to be saved but I don’t find that teaching in the Scriptures.
Dale Baker
“Sin, the Human Condition and Salvation”
BRI: In Christ in Adam Motif
Salvation and the topic about it, have always sparked much discussion. Many debates now exist about it. But what if one was supposed to hold to a view that the Calvinist hold to, which believes that sinners are so deranged and deprived by sin that they can not even respond to God’s redemptive initiative. Thus God redeems whoever He wills. This would mean then that we could just live as we please because we would not know whether or not we will ever be saved, unless it is by works.
We see in scripture that when Adam sinned he caused his prosperity to inherit the propensity to disobedience. Ellen White has stated that sinners will retain their sinful nature until glorification, and that with the sanctification process there will never come a time when we will become meritorious. She also made it clear that character perfection is different from nature perfection. Thus it is impossible for us to have perfect nature here but it is possible to have a perfect character or a close to perfect character.
Consequently, God gives all of us choice, whether we want to choose Him or not, that’s up to us. Therefore salvation and the acceptance of the grace of God are dependent upon us. Furthermore, God will never force His will on us.
I am happy to know that salvation and for us to be saved is not based on how much we know about salvation, but its all about the grace of God, as Romans 5:20 says that where sin abound grace much more abound. Thank God for His grace.
Debbedo Brown
“Sin, the Human Condition and Salvation”
Romans 5
I agree with Woodrow that the original sin caused by our first parents did not result in total depravity of the human race. If this was the case then some people would be predestined to be saved and some to be lost a popular belief among Calvinists as is pointed out by the author. There is absolutely no doubt that man’s nature has been severely marred by sin nevertheless, he still retain that free will to accept or reject the salvation provided by God in Jesus. It cannot be negated that man would have never responded to God if God did not take the initiative to seek after him. Additionally, it is also true that man in, of himself could not have reached out, and accepted the gift of salvation that God offers, because he became a slave to sin and did not have strength to seek after God. Therefore, even the free will given to man is encouraged and empowered by a loving to accept Him, says the Scripture, “Today I invoke heaven and earth as a witness against you that I have set life and death, blessing and curse, before you. Therefore, choose life so that you and your descendants may live!” (Deut. 30:19). Also, Philippians 2:13 say it is God who gives us the “desire and will to reach out to Him.” This divine encouragement is not limited to only some people but has been offered to all because “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance, (2 Peter 3:9).
Another thing that is clear based on my reading throughout this weak is that it is all about Jesus. Even though the Holy Spirit is working on our character and making us instruments of good works, this cannot merit us salvation, because our good works pass through the corrupt channels of humanity and ii somewhat still affected by sin. The only way they can be accepted by God is if Jesus Blood purifies them.
Desmond C. Haye
Articles: Whidden chapter 5; Romans 5; Angel Rodriquez “In Adam/In Christ.
Angel Rodriquez’s article “In Adam/In Christ” brings to the fore an issue that is pertinent and relevant to our understanding of this misunderstood subject. The clarity he forwarded on the subject was quite helpful. As I examined the article, I came to the conclusion that we truly need a broader understanding of salvation. It is true that a misunderstanding of the phrases “in Adam/in Christ” has created some serious theological problems for the 1888 committee, and not only them but the church on a whole. This issue is very important for if we misunderstand the sin and salvation issue we have missed it all. For if we believe the fallacy that we are responsible for Adam’s sin because his sin is my sin then we truly have a false notion of what the scripture means by “in Adam.”
This article ties in quite nicely with Paul’s account in Romans chapter 5. The apostle here showed that in Adam all died, and in Christ all is made alive. This suggest to me that death and sin as a principle and power, proceeded from Adam to the whole human race, so righteousness and life, as a counteracting and conquering principle and power, proceed from Christ to all mankind. And as death has been passed on to all men who participate in Adam’s sin, so life is passed on to all those who participate in the righteousness of Christ.
Thankfully, this article has helped me to see a fresh perspective on this serious debate.
Another interesting article was Whidden’s treatment of “Salvation, the Great Controversy theme, Closing events and the Law.” In this chapter Whidden helped us to understand more clearly that in order to understand Ellen White’s perspective on salvation; we must take a look on other important subjects that have significant bearing on her concept of salvation. In her writings she has demonstrated that there should be a balance between law and grace, faith and works, justice and mercy as she examines the great doctrine of salvation. This is very important to note as it will aid as we seek to build a bigger model of how we understand salvation.
Christ Saved the Human Race
Ángel Manuel Rodríguez
Another week, another BRI article fighting 1888 views, most notably Jack Sequiera's views of Salvation as taught in the Bible. I've eaten lunch with both Angel Rodriguez and Jack Sequiera on separate occasions. So my response to this article includes some personal interaction with both of these fellas.
From what I understand, Sequiera and Rodriguez are completely opposed to each other in several different issues, but the major one is the deals with the "Nature of Christ". Sequeira believes that Jesus took man's sinful flesh upon Himself...Rodriguez believes that Jesus did not. While I've never heard Rodriguez present the gospel, I have heard Sequeira present the gospel...and there's no doubt in my mind...my heart was warmed with the message that God loves me so much. Sequeira model of salvation focuses on GOD'S WORK for us, instead of OUR WORK in responding to the gospel. If Sequeira's teaching universalism, then I don't agree with him, but I simply did not hear that in his presentation. Maybe there's other motivator's to this division between BRI and 1888. I do agree with Angel Rodriguez central assertion in this article, THE SINNER MUST RESPOND TO THE GOSPEL. But again, I've heard Sequiera preach and he is basically saying the same thing, only he's emphasizing the "work" Jesus has done for us already at Calvary...and not the "work" we must do in responding to His sacrifice for us. I can read Sequiera's version of the gospel and agree with him, but then I'll read this article by Angel Rodriguez and I'll find myself agreeing with him. I believe we need to teach obedience, but I think 80% of the message needs to be what God has done for us...and 20% our response to His love.
I think in order to find out the difference between these guys two different models of salvation, you must look at their Christological views. Their most obvious point of contention is their two different beliefs in the "nature of Christ." The whole question being...did Jesus take upon Himself man's fallen nature at His incarnation? Or did He take man's perfect nature before Adam sinned?
The Bible spends more time telling the reader of Jesus humbling Himself...how He came DOWN from heaven, how He TOOK SIN upon Himself, how HE BECAME SIN itself on the cross, how HE WAS CRUCIFIED, how HE DIED on the cross, how He stooped down and WASHED HIS DISCIPLE'S FEET (man's lowest point). But Rodriguez doesn't believe that Jesus took the fallen nature on Himself. If you plug these two different Christological theological perspectives into two similar Soterioligical models, you'd end up with two vastly different models. Rodriguez's model would be righteousness or salvation by faith and works... Sequeira's would be righteousness or salvation by faith alone. I believe that the Christological issue is the real source of this division. I agree with Rodriguez in most everything he says in this article...WE MUST RESPOND TO THE GOSPEL OF JESUS by RECEIVING IT...we must receive the gift of salvation by faith...I'd like to read or hear him speak of his model of salvation from another angle other than picking apart another man's model.
10-10-07
Reading materials:
1. Romans 3.
2. Christ Saved the Human Race. Ángel Manuel Rodríguez
3. Chapter three, The Decade before 1888.
It is so frustrated to me read those articles on salvation in the Biblical Research Institute website and then come to our class. It seems to me that the BRI said that the objective work of salvation made on the cross was just a paid that God made in order to give us a legal option to be save. But, when I come to class I hear that the 1888 Message Study Committee ("1888 MSC") has a valid point to emphasizes that the objective works of Christ on the cross was more than a legal paid but as a complete act of all human salvation. In other words, I feel trapped in a huge tornado debate. In our class it seems to suggest that it is ok to open the door to 1888 MSC but in our reading seems to close it.
I know that one possible answer to my dilemma is to make a personal research- exegesis on those texts. But, let me tell you, Do you think is ease to accomplish it? Do we have to make an exegesis on every single passage that our professor gives us in class? Or, do we have to believe by faith that those texts are accurate with the entire bible context?
ELLEN WHITE ON SALVATION
WOODROW WHIDDEN II
THE NATURE OF CHIRST AND SALVATION
COMENTS ON CHAPTER 8:
Cuando traemos el tema de la naturaleza de Cristo no nos podemos escape de preguntas muy complicadas, en las cuales muchos dan diferentes opinions trayendo asi mas complicaciones. En el capitulo 8 del libro se encuantran respuestas simples sobre la naturaleza de Cristo, no obstante debo reconocer que el asunto es un misterio.
Reading este capitulo encontre una cita from Ellen White que el autor hace referencia y la quiero mencionar aqui tanbiem “Christ reaches us where we are. He took our nature and overcame, that we through taking His nature might overcome. Made in the likeness of sinful flesh, He lived a sinless life” (DA 311, 312). Sometimes we get to complicate cuando la major noticia es que todo ese misterio de la encarnacion fue hecho en favor de la raza humana para que esta pudiera ser salva del pecado.
Two naturaleza mixta es no possible de explicar, sin embargo Jesus poseia ambas, here is another quote found in the book: “Crhist could have done nothing during His earthly ministry in saving the fallen man if the divine had not been blended with the human” I just like to accept what God had done for me, haciendo lo imposible possible por darme la salvation.
Salvation was for human race not only for Jews, God give the Jews the privilege to spread out the message of salvation to the entire world but they kept it for themselves. In God mind was not different everyone need salvation before His eye Jews and gentile, that is why, when Jesus came He meet every kind of people He did not reject anybody. An example of this is Cornelius he was gentile but God send an angels to his house to tell him that his prayer were heard in heaven, it is truth that God choose Israel and give them a mission that they misunderstood, but salvation was made for all.
ELLEN WHITE ON SALVATION
WOODROW WHIDDEN II
THE NATURE OF CHIRST AND SALVATION
COMENTS ON CHAPTER 8:
When we bring the subject of the nature of Christ we can’t escape of very complicated questions, in which many give different opinions thus bringing but complications. In chapter 8 of the book I found simple answers on the nature of Christ, I must recognize that the subject is a mystery.
Reading this chapter I found a quote from Ellen White who the author makes reference and I want it to mention too here “Christ reaches us where we are. He took our nature and overcame, that we through taking His nature might overcome. Made in the likeness of sinful flesh, He lived a sinless life” (DA 311, 312). Sometimes we get to complicate when the major news is that all that mystery of the incarnation was done in favor of the human race so that this could be save from sin.
Two mixed nature is impossible to explain, nevertheless Jesus possess both, here is to another quote found in the book: “Christ could have done nothing during His earthly ministry in saving the fallen man, if the divine had not been blended with the human” I just like to accept what God had done for me, making the impossible possible to give me salvation.
The development of our doctrines had been a process and matter of time. As I read more and more regarding Justification by faith, I come to understand that this doctrine in particular, brought more conflict than any other doctrine. Thinking on this topic, a question come to me; supposing that, if around the 1888 God have revealed the whole truth about justification by faith to Ellen White before Jones & Waggoner, where be any different?
I think that the fact on been a prophet the church could accept the message in a more simple way nevertheless the same questions could arise and create some problems. When Ellen White supported Jones & Waggoner her reputation as prophet was questioned, so I come to one conclusion, even when the church had a prophet God used other minister to bring light and clarify his truth.
The Dynamics of Salvation
from the biblical research institute.
This is a very interesting article with six section regarding salvation plan.
Part 1: Talk about human condition, how is the status of man before salvation: before salvation man need to recognize his condition, that he can’t do anything to restore himself to God or improve the human nature. The salvation is up to God, only trough His merciful grace human race can be saved.
a- We stand condemned before God: man had rebelled against God
b- We are alienated from our true selves
c- We are alienated from one another
d- We are alienated from the created world
Part 2: The divine initiative: we are lost, full of anxiety and loneliness, and we are unable to help ourselves. God is who reach the man in his lost condition, is God who’s first call Adam looking for him.
Part 3: The human respond to grace: God provide salvation for the world, but not all will respond to obey Him, God does not force anybody, not even for our best good. The human respond to grace centers in faith… there is not merit in faith itself, faith is not our savior but only by faith we obtain Christ merits to be save.
Part 4: The new status in Christ:
a- Justification: God acceptance of the human race, He imparts His justice trough Christ
b- Reconciliation: God acted to restore the relationship with the human race
c- Forgiveness: God freely cancel our debt though Christ
d- Adoption: He welcomes us into his home and give us the right and privileges, we receive the full status of his sons and daughters
e- Sanctification: we need to reach out to God day by day in loving trust, turning from pride in ourselves and relying entirely upon Him.
Part 5: New life in Christ:
a- New born: we’re regenerated by the Holy Spirit
b- Restoration: of the mental, physical, spiritual person
c- Growth: spiritual growth reflected in our word and actions
Part 6: The consummation: it is God initiative in His saving activity.
The Dynamics of Salvation (from the biblical research intitute)
This is a very interesting article with six section regarding salvation plan.
Part 1: Talk about human condition, how is the status of man before salvation: before salvation man need to recognize his condition, that he can’t do anything to restore himself to God or improve the human nature. The salvation is up to God, only trough His merciful grace human race can be saved.
a- We stand condemned before God: man had rebelled against God
b- We are alienated from our true selves
c- We are alienated from one another
d- We are alienated from the created world
Part 2: The divine initiative: we are lost, full of anxiety and loneliness, and we are unable to help ourselves. God is who reach the man in his lost condition, is God who’s first call Adam looking for him.
Part 3: The human respond to grace: God provide salvation for the world, but not all will respond to obey Him, God does not force anybody, not even for our best good. The human respond to grace centers in faith… there is not merit in faith itself, faith is not our savior but only by faith we obtain Christ merits to be save.
Part 4: The new status in Christ:
a- Justification: God acceptance of the human race, He imparts His justice trough Christ
b- Reconciliation: God acted to restore the relationship with the human race
c- Forgiveness: God freely cancel our debt though Christ
d- Adoption: He welcomes us into his home and give us the right and privileges, we receive the full status of his sons and daughters
e- Sanctification: we need to reach out to God day by day in loving trust, turning from pride in ourselves and relying entirely upon Him.
Part 5: New life in Christ:
a- New born: we’re regenerated by the Holy Spirit
b- Restoration: of the mental, physical, spiritual person
c- Growth: spiritual growth reflected in our word and actions
Part 6: The consummation: it is God initiative in His saving activity.
Reflection Paper V
"The Continuance of the Prophetic Gift"
As we have already noted, the NT does set forth a doctrine of "spiritual gifts," or charismata, "gifts of grace" (1 Cor 12; Eph 4). These endowments by the Holy Spirit upon individual members of the church are to "equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ" (Eph 4:12, RSV). "As each has received a gift," he is to employ it in the service of the church and thus assist in forwarding its work in the earth (1 Pet 4:10, 11, RSV; cf. Rom 12:6, 7).
Since the gifts are to be continuously bestowed as the Spirit sees fit "until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ . . ." (Eph 4:13, RSV), it is obvious that the gifts are intended to function until the church has completed its ministry and human probation has closed.
There is no evidence in Scripture that God ever intends to withdraw the prophetic gift or any of the other gifts this side of the Second Coming (cf. 1 Cor 13:8-12). There is, instead, the OT prophecy of Joel 2:28-32 which is repeated by Peter (Acts 2:16-21) foretelling an end-time outpouring of the Holy Spirit and a resultant activity of spiritual gifts.
This matter is so significant to me in these last days that I included the above from the BRI “The Biblical Basis for a Modern Prophet”
My question is why do we as a church tend to shy away from the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, a very necessary part of the Christian experience? It’s almost as if this relates only to “Pentecostal” faith not Adventist.
If Adventist discuss the Gifts of the Holy Spirit it must be done through a Survey Method on 'paper'. Determining your spiritual gifts seldom includes prayer as the method for obtaining what God desires his church to have. God is the same yesterday today and forever. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. James 1:17. Recorded also in Ps 84:11: For the Lord God is a sun and shield: the Lord will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly. Not only will He give the good gifts according to His will, but He will also identify the gifts to the recipient.
We can then test these gifts by the scriptures: 2 Thess. 5:19-21: Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Commenting on:
• BRI Doc: Heppenstall, Edward, “How Perfect Is "Perfect" Or Is Christian Perfection Possible?”
• Romans 5, Class notes
• Whidden; Chapter 5, Salvation, the Great Controversy Theme, Closing Events, and the Law
God on trial or Christ on the cross?
I’ve heard of it and I suspect many of you have as well, “God is on trial and until the great controversy ends – He will continue to be on trial.” And so I wonder about whether or not God is still on trial.
I think probably not – at least not since calvary. Calvary was the answer to all the accusations of Satan – wasn’t it? Satan roars, Is God justice fair? Is the law fair? Was Satan being kicked to the curb and out of heaven fair?
God’s trial (if there ever was one) may have ended long ago – when Jesus was crucified.. The grace extended to us through his son did not destroy or take the place of the law – it fulfills and meets the law. Grace and Law are two sides of the same coin.
So… is God still on trial? Maybe, in the sense that all creation is waiting for the end to evaluate fairness with the advantage of hindsight. Or maybe if the world would look and learn of the cross, God’s judgment could now be a non-issue.
Wood floats – Not Peter
I’ve heard many diff answers as to why Peter lost his walking on water (floating) ability. Maybe… it because he took his eyes off of Jesus, maybe he was paying too much attention to the waves, maybe it’s because he looked at his ship-bound buddies and thought too much of himself.
I submit that though the reasons may be reasonable – they are not true. He sank because he had the tendency to sink in water. Peter does not float (walk on water) – wood does (without the walking). Peter’s body mass doesn’t allow for it. “The only thing that kept him walking on top of the sea was the power of Christ momentarily exercised counteracting the gravitational power to pull him down.”
I liken it to sin, we can not float above sin. We sink in it… we stink in it… we even live in it. There is only one way to oppose the gravitational pull. That one way is: Christ, our sole perfection, our sole righteousness. The righteousness of Christ that saves is not the beginning of a new self-righteousness, but the perpetual end of it.
Commenting on:
• BRI Doc: Heppenstall, Edward, “How Perfect Is "Perfect" Or Is Christian Perfection Possible?”
• Romans 5, Class notes
• Whidden; Chapter 5, Salvation, the Great Controversy Theme, Closing Events, and the Law
“Salvation By Faith”
Jan Paulsen
This article is another one dealing with the debate of objective faith against subjective faith. In this tired, ridiculous argument, Paulsen “pulls a Hanna” and tells how faith is both objective and subjective. The following quotes show Paulsen’s holistic approach:
“Faith is, first of all, something objective. That is, it has to do with information and data that lie outside my person and my experience.”
“But this informed, objective aspect of faith becomes subjective when, looking at Jesus Christ, we move to place our trust in Him.”
In the end, Paulsen argues for something everyone can agree with, that we should keep looking to Christ, being committed in our faith, and striving to further our belief in knowledge and practice.
Chapter 7 on Ellen White on Salvation
“At the heart of her [Ellen White’s] atonement thought was the balance between law and grace, justice and mercy, and the demonstration of this right relationship in Christ’s life—and ultimately in the believer.”
It is so refreshing to read that Mrs. White kept the appropriate emphasis when thinking, writing, and speaking about Christ’s atonement. To often in Christendom, the argument is over the metaphors instead of the meaning.
I found the most profound part of the chapter to be the Fritz Guy quote, “The death of Jesus is not God making someone else ‘pay the penalty’ instead of us; it is God taking the penalty on himself.” This quote seems to play well against the idea that God required blood/violence because of sin.
Romans 6
“What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means? We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?”
This, the first verse in chapter 6, is timeless. Paul seems to be writing about the same issues that arise today from the law-grace pendulum swings. “Are we free to sin now because we are saved only by grace?” I also like Paul’s response later in the chapter (paraphrase): You are not free when you are in sin? Why would you want to go back to sin, when you are liberated by grace?
We could ask these same questions on any given Sabbath today.
My comment is in regard to Asahel (10/10/07).
These are very good issues that you raise. Many of the BRI articles seem to have more emphasis on the objective part of salvation. Unfortunately, I think many of the authors for the BRI are choosing their language so carefully, (so they don’t get pinned on universalism, etc.), that they are not being helpful to the conversation. This is a call for us, as pastors, to take the kind of serious “bigger box” thinking that we’re learning in class, into the pulpits and pews.
Blessed Insurance, Jesus is mine!
Salvation's theme song
(sing to the tune of “Blessed assurance”)
Blessed Insurance, Jesus is mine!
The working Catholic gets glory divine!
The theo liberal, writes about God,
The liberal theo, fights with his blood.
Refrain
This is sal-vation, this is it’s song,
Some ways work quickly, others are long.
This is sal-vation, this is it’s song,
I am Adventist, can I belong?
====
Finding our way in salvation theologies may seem tricky. But fear not,
the Bible let's us know where we click with others and where we do not.
Peace,
mika
Commenting on:
• BRI Doc: Rodríguez, Angel Manuel, “Justification in Romans 3:21-24”
• Romans 6, Class notes
• Whidden: Chapter 6, Sin, the Human Condition, and Salvation
Tim Peters
Week 6 Submission
Romans 6 seems to be saying that justification and sanctification are interwoven. When we are united in Christ’s death and our sins are forgiven; so also we united in his resurrection and given new life. It is interesting that it is a conscious decision that we are encouraged to make in Romans 6:11 about our change and new life that we have from God. Without faith it is impossible to please God. It does not say that we no longer sin in this new life. We are told that we need to not let it reign over us. We are compared with slaves and slaves are powerless. Our job is to choose if we are going to be slaves to righteousness and God or to sin and Satan.
In the BRI article I was surprised to see the phrase that we are alienated from our true selves. This section reminds me of the song “Were it not for grace.” The song talks about if it wasn’t for the grace of God, I would be doing the same thing that anyone else is doing. This statement is very encouraging to me, “At every point in the story, God takes the initiative.” This tells me that God is the author and the finisher and the One making salvation possible at every step in my journey. I am glad that I have to say yes and God will give me life eternal now. Even though we have inherited a sinful nature; we can live in God’s presence moment by moment and say in faith, “If God is for me, who can be against me!” Adoption is a part of salvation that is not often talked about. It was refreshing to see it discussed in the article.
In chapter 6 by Whidden I like how he puts it that it is ‘free grace’ rather than ‘free will.’ This is Ellen White’s view of God’s initiative. We are so messed up that we would not respond to God unless he took the initiative and drew us to him. Yet he does not use force in this drawing. So without this drawing and wooing by God we are hopeless. I am thankful that God takes the initiative in our salvation.
_jamieSalvation Submission 10-12-07
Greetings fellow students! I am just finishing the reading as I am writing this but I found some things that I just had to write about immediately. We have been talking in class about whether or not to deal with other religions and points of view so I found EGW on Salvation rather interesting. On page 49 Whidden, talking about Ellen White, has this to say, “It is almost as if she went on a shopping trip at the doctrinal supermarket and was able to get all the choicest fruits without picking up a single rotten theological apple.” What a statement. Why was she able to do this? Because she had immersed herself in the Bible and everything that she looked at was sifted and sorted based on what the Bible had to say. I think too often we are so afraid that we might be tainted by someone else that we miss the further truth that the Lord would have us to learn. When it comes right down to it our acts of superiority because we have the truth are nothing more than prejudice. I know that is a little harsh but only when we realize that we are all in this walk together and that we are all trying to do what we think God would have us to do. Are we sure that we are right? And if we are sure does that not put us at the risk of blinding ourselves to God? I think only when we put ourselves in the shoes of people from other religions can we know best how to make friends with them and to tell them what we have found out about God on our Christian walk. I hope my fellow classmates with have a reaction to this. I like to dialog with people and I do it best when I can write. Another thing that I picked up on was the article The Dynamics of Salvation. I Love the picture that is painted here. We are on trial. Many see God the Father as the one that is accusing us but it is Satan. He wants us to go down with him and does whatever he can to get rid of us. He hates us. But then Jesus gets us and He says that we are righteous. He doesn’t deny that we are sinners but He points at His death and says that we are His. What a wonderful picture. Well I have run out of room and I am off to finish reading. Have a Happy Sabbath all.
Jamie
Articles Read: “Christ Saved the Human Race”
by Angel Manuel Rodríguez
Romans 6
Ellen White On Salvation, Chapter 6.
Rodriguez examines some passages from the writings of Ellen White that seem to indicate a legal objective justification of the humanity at the cross. On close examination it was not difficult to see that Mrs. White never supported this idea. Although salvation was made possible to the entire race because of Christ’s death on the cross there is still a required response from the sinner in order to effect the virtue of that universal provision.
For example she clearly states, “If fallen human beings will consent to become sons and daughters of God in willing obedience, they will become one with Christ.” Also, "Christ has paid the price of your redemption. There is only one thing that you can do, and that is to take the gift of God.” In each case we see that there is something that the sinner must DO in order to receive salvation. The salvation doesn’t come from their acceptance as much as accepting a gift creates the gift itself or “deserves” the gift.
In reviewing Ellen White’s view of the human condition as a result of Adam’s sin she doesn’t go for the total depravity as taught in Calvinism. Now man cannot help himself without God’s help. We are all “dead in trespasses and sins” and a dead person cannot feel. This would indicate that God was do some “enabling” in order to make us conscious enough of our need. It’s a thin line between total depravity of the human nature and having “enough” left of God to help us to respond to his Holy spirit. If we can respond this would mean that sin didn’t totally obliterate the essence of God from us.
It is difficult to accept that “all our righteousness are as filthy rags”, but the Bible clearly teaches that even out best efforts are not good enough and still stained with selfishness. An interesting question to ponder in light of this is: Is selfish of me to want to be saved? In other words, am I self-seeking in wanting to gain eternal life?
This reminds us that there is nothing that could be meritorious about our works because it is still stained with selfishness and sin. This reminds me of the great reformer Martin Luther who taught that man’s sins is twofold. First, he does not fulfill the Commandments but transgresses them. And second, he sins against the First Commandment when he attempts to fulfill the Commandments in order to win salvation, since he thereby sins against God as the only God and creator who alone gives righteousness to men.
But Paul reminds us that the stained nature of our works doesn’t release us from the obligation to do good works. “What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. (Romans 6:15-18)
For Paul, the same enthusiasm we showed in doing the works of unrighteousness is the same or greater enthusiasm we need in doing the works of righteousness.
I raise the question in class with regards to REWARDS and the GIFT of salvation. My understanding is that our works will “earn” us rewards but salvation is gift. This was illustrated by the parable of the servants who came different hours but received the same pay. But on the other hand there is the parable of the talents and those who worked the hardest received the greater increase.
Jesus didn’t rebuke his disciples when they asked about reward. He in fact answered their questions that they would receive a hundredfold in this life and much more in the life to come. I don’t think that we need look at our works just in terms of salvation but as a response to Christ’s goodness to us we will want to work for him.
Jesus did say of his Father when he was accused of breaking the Sabbath commandment that He works and I work. Why does God work? Wasn’t Adam appointed his work even before sin? Why should we just consider works only in the context of salvation?
Reflection by Eric Ollila
Week of: Oct. 7-13, 2007
Whidden, “Sin, the Human Condition, and Salvation”
Overall I think Whidden did a great job summing up a very complex subject. It is always refreshing to be reminded of God’s continual persuing after us, even when we do not realize our perilous condition.
I am reminded of Romans 6:16 which says
Rom. 6:16 (KJV)
16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
When Adam and Eve yielded to the enemy, their wills came under the dominion of satan. Christ, in His mercy had to “put” enmity between the serpent and the woman. This enmity, or war, would not naturally exist between sinners and satan had not God specially interposed.
COMMENTS ON ROMANS 6
Rom. 6:6 through Rom. 6:8 (KJV)
6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
When the old man is crucified, I picture myself, with all my evil desires, ambitions, envyings, and rebellion being laid in the tomb and then rising with Jesus on the third day with His desires, His ambitions, and His love, and peace, and motive. This passage speaks to me specially at this time because it is a promise that when I accept Christ and surrender my sins and fears, the body of sin is destroyed. In other words the evil desires, emotions, imaginations, and urges that are tugging at me to give in become crucified. They are laid to rest. They are cast down along with every high thing that exalts itself against Christ.
But that is not all. Not only does this baptism cast down the imaginations, but it enables us to not serve sin. Why? Because when we die to self, we are freed from sin. True it is a process and it does not happen all at once. We do not gain the victory over every sin all at the same time. There are some sins that we must bring to the feet of Jesus many times before we physically experience the deliverance from them. But none the less, the process is the same. The old man is crucified that the body of sin might be destroyed and that henceforth we should not serve sin.
It is just like the children of Israel driving the heathen nations out of the land that God had promised them. God did not drive all of the nations out at once, because as He said the land would become a vast wilderness and many foxes and owls would overtake it.
So it is with our soul. God drives sin out as we are able to occupy the newly gained territory with healthy habits and patterns of living. This is a wonderful chapter that has so many different aspects that could be touched on.
This chapter is speaking about both the baptism by the Spirit and baptism by water. In both cases the chapter has tremendous lessons to learn.
Week Six
Heather Barbian
Romans 6: This chapter is on being alive to Christ and dead to sin. My favorite section is verses 11-14, “In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.” We are therefore no longer slaves to sin but to righteousness.
Whidden, Woodrow W. “Chapter Six: Sin, the Human Condition and Salvation,” from: Ellen White on Salvation. Berrien Springs: R&H Catalog Service.
This chapter covers issues of Sin, salvation, depravity, guilt, merit, perfection, free-will, calling and conversion. I learned that Ellen White believed in original sin yet was not concerned with original guilt. She also believed that one was not perfect until glorified. I also found it interesting that she did not buy into “total depravity” but believed in depravity.
Rodríguez, Ángel Manuel. Christ Saved the Human Race. http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/christsavedhumanrace.htm
This article by Rodriguez is called, Christ Saved the Human Race, and answers the question what did Ellen White mean when she said, “Christ saved the world”. Some have used this phrase in support of a universal salvation message yet Rodriguez believes that this is taken out of context. He writes, “The alienation of humans from God, which was the result of the fall, came to an end through Christ. He became a living bridge between God and humans because he was both, human and divine. This was Christ's objective act of salvation. He made it possible for human beings to be united with God; he "connected earth with heaven." But only repentant sinners can benefit from that salvation. That is what she meant when she said that Christ "saved the world.” He clearly states that Ellen White never stated that Christ universally saved the whole world but simply anyone who believes may be saved.
Material Covered: Whidden Chapter 7
In this chapter, Whidden tackles Ellen White’s view of the nature of Christ. In his brief exposition, he makes a number of poignant observations that have significance beyond the current debate. The biggest point he makes is that the traditional arguments regarding the nature of Christ had very little, if any, bearing on her understanding of salvation. In fact, as she dealt with the nature of Christ, she dealt with a completely different issue: the fact that the divine and the human could coexist in the same person. Ellen White was generally unconcerned with the debate about the human nature of Christ as evidenced by her lack of a comprehensive treatise on the issue. It is also interesting to note that her apparent perspective changed based on the theological issues she was addressing. These seemingly contradictory statements did not constitute flip-flopping in the mold of present-day politicians. Instead, it represented an intentional focus on the aspects of the truth that would speak most directly to the issue at hand. It seems that all of the arguments would cease if people allowed themselves to look at all of her statements on an issue instead of just a few. This debate is a good example of a need for a more comprehensive view of theological issues. The reality is that the Bible has little to say about Christ’s human nature, and Ellen White has statements that would support either view. Is it possible that the true answer is, “both?” It seems to me that Jesus was enough like us to understand our plight as humans, yet enough different to be called our Savior. As we seek to investigate the “mystery” of God who was man, I’m not sure how well we will truly understand.
I like Tim's synopsis of Whidden's Ellen G White on Salvation:
"In chapter 6 by Whidden I like how he puts it that it is ‘free grace’ rather than ‘free will.’ This is Ellen White’s view of God’s initiative. We are so messed up that we would not respond to God unless he took the initiative and drew us to him. Yet he does not use force in this drawing. So without this drawing and wooing by God we are hopeless. I am thankful that God takes the initiative in our salvation." So succinctly expressed. We are completely incapacitated by our sinful nature and did not just need a Redeemer, but a Redeemer who would take the initiative and draw us back to Himself. Max Lucado is right- No wonder they call Him Savior!
Garfield
In Chapter 6 the Apostle is convinced that without Christ we can do nothing. Certainly, Christ's sacrifice is a way of escape from degradation and sin. Each human being has the alternative of accepting the free gift or not to accept and this seems to be both Whidden's and Angel Manuel Rodriguez in book and article concerning Mrs White's viewpoint regarding the issue of our salvation. However, to the Apostle to me is suggesting that the bill has been paid we are free, the sacrifice has been offered we have been emancipated, emancipated to the extent that we can choose without inhibition to follow Christ. I do not believe that as a people (SDA's) we quite understand the emancipation we experience as a result of accepting Christ's offer. Some in the Church believe that offices can make them justified, while others such as clergymen hold the notion that just having a church will do the trick. Yet there are others who feel that as long as they are attending "the remnant Church" its a done deal! It does a appear from our assigned reading that none of these can cause us to purchase our way "from Purgatory to Glory." On the other hand however, it is clear that Salvation comes through Christ and Christ alone- that the process of receiving it is a radical dynamic that oscillates between justification, sanctification and glorification.
Dale Baker
“Atonement”
BRI: Dynamics of Salvation
One on the good things about salvation and the good news is that it has depth that it could tax the sharpest intellect, yet it is simple enough that a child can understand. As we stand before God we are condemned, because of our sin. Even our righteousness is like filthy rags. We are alienated from one another and even from the created world.
However, it is not Gods desire that we stay in that position. Rather He wants us to be redeemed from our lostness. God goes at length to save us, so much so that the self-righteous is baffled by it. Thus they seek to work to attain salvation. Consequently, we don’t have to work to attain salvation, because Jesus has come to liberate us from the depravity of sin. Furthermore, the cross is there as an example of the supreme manifestation of Gods love. The cross speaks of more than mercy, it also speaks of a powerful condemnation of sin by the ‘holy love of a holy God.’
Salvation is not about what we can do to be saved, rather its all about what God has done for us that we might be saved, because at every point in our salvation process it is God that takes the initiative. Therefore, we can have confidence that we are adopted in the family of God, and this means that we are the recipients of the full status of been sons and daughters of God. Salvation brings about the change from slavery to sin to the newness of life in Christ.
Romans 5, Whidden Ch 5, BRI “How Perfect I ‘Perfect’ Or Is Christian Perfection Possible?” by Heppenstall
Heppenstall’s paper "How Perfect Is 'Perfect' Or Is Christian Perfection Possible?" addresses two questions that most Christians have asked themselves at some point. Can we be Perfect Christians? Didn’t Jesus instruct us to be perfect as His Father in Heaven is perfect? I agree to a large extent to what Heppenstall had to say, but there did seem to be some reoccurring questions that began to pose themselves in my mind as I continued to read. Could Jesus prepare a people to reflect His image in the very end? Could He do it if He wanted to? What role does the antitypical day of Atonement play into the subject of perfection at the end of time? Didn’t the children of Israel live in a constant state of repentance and self-examination and preparation as they prepared for the great Day of Atonement? So, shouldn’t we be doing the same? I think Heppenstall is saying yes. The only other questions that remain in my mind are…what about the sealing? Once we’re sealed, does that mean that we won’t sin again? I suppose there is a part of me that feels like if you have the mindset or the theology that concedes the possibility of obedience to God, then doesn’t that make Satan out to be more powerful than Jesus? Wasn’t that Satan’s original claim in heaven? That God’s law could NOT be kept. While I can’t say that I will ever knowingly come to a place where I am aware of any state of perfection in me, I do believe that whoever fixes their eyes, their attention on Jesus and Him crucified, that they will become increasingly more and more perfect like Jesus.
Afterall a perfect Christlike character is what we’ve been called to receive…it is like Heppenstall said, it’s a day by day process. To challenge Heppenstall’s view’s on perfection, I submit to you, Jesus instructions at His Sermon on the Mount. Jesus instructed His followers to love their enemies as themselves. He followed up this instruction with the statement, “Be ye therefore perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect.” So according to scripture, what does it mean to be perfect? It means to love your enemy as yourself. Does Jesus expect this from us? So does Jesus expect perfection from us? It seems to indicate in His Word, in His teachings that He does. It’s clear, the only way we can do this is to have Jesus living in our hearts.
Jesus loves His enemies. He calls us to love our enemies. The only way this can happen is if we are dead to ourselves, and Jesus is living in our hearts. He places His perfect love in us, day by day, moment by moment. If Jesus wants to make His people perfect, who am I, or who is anyone, to say He can’t do that? Jesus is God…He can do whatever He wants to do…He can certainly place hearts and minds in His people that love the unlovable, that love even those who hate them…to love your enemy, this is what Jesus did when He saved us…Jesus expects this same sort of selfless character in His children. We can’t produce it, only He can in us.
Whidden Ch 7: The Atonement
I appreciated Whidden's dealing with the topic of atonement. He didn't seem 'married' to just one theory. He did seem to strongly favor the Penal Substitutionary (perhaps because EGW seemed to) while not excluding the moral influence. The lack of discussion on the Christus Victor theory of atonement was was an oversight in my mind. When he said the EGW acted like she was at a 'buffet' I was prepared for more of a buffet and not just a couple items on the menu. What he did deal with, he dealt with well. I just would have like to have seen a couple more theories out there.
BRI: Dynamics of Salvation
Whidden: Chapter 6
Acts 6
Anyone born with guilt? Anyone totally depraved? Anyone in need of perfection?
These questions have always paraded my mind, and I am grateful to note that Ellen White had a clear cut view on each of these pertinent concepts. She was very clear that we were not born with guilt. She was not troubled according to Whidden with the thought that "God allows humans to be subject to an inheritance that leads inevitably to sinful acts, which result in guilt." What do you think of this stament? This perspective demands much thought. I welcome this new insight as it was my understanding that we were born with the guilt of our forefather Adam. However, this article has clarified my misconception. What was even clearer is my total depravity. This state of total depravity can only be helped by Jesus. This is encouraging to note for should we ever conceive that anything we merit is of our own doing, we would be of men most miserable. As Whidden declares and I strongly believe “Only what has come from the “untainted” nature of the sinless Jesus has saving merit.” This is true as WE CANNOT DO ANYTHING TO MERIT SALVATION. So our human efforts at achieving this feat are futile. All our great works and accomplishments will not guarantee us an eternal reward. I am happy that it is “God who works in us, both to will and to do of His good pleasure.” Therefore, through Christ I am perfect. I am complete in Him. My character can be made perfect, and the meritorious perfection of Christ’s life and death can credited to my account. This gives the sinner hope and the saint assurance of a better and more glorious life in Christ. Yes, our redemption is Christ centered and involves all aspects of our life.
It is no wonder Paul affirms the foregoing in chapter 6 of Romans when he uses the baptismal experience as a symbol of the new life in Christ. It is my belief that when we recognize how depraved we are and our great need of the righteousness of Christ we will truly experience his saving power. We will become dead to sin, and alive in Him. The new man will walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. We will become Christ’s slave, an honored status for any depraved human being.
It is this dynamic experience of salvation that is so carefully outlined in the BRI document.
Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10
Ángel Manuel Rodríguez
1 Timothy 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
by just reading this verse in any english version, it is possible to get confuse very cunfuse. I understand that Jesus in the new testament showed very clear in Mathew 25 that at the time of the second coming, there will be two groups, the saved and the lost(the lambs & the goats).
know as read 1 tim. 4:10 that "God, who is the Savior of all men" is here when misunderstanding take place. So Angel Manuel Rodriguez explain in the article a better way to understand this verse. I am very satisfied with his argument, so now become clear in my mind that God provide a way for the human race to be save, but it is necesary to acept His salvation plan to become save. So no everybody is save as universal group.
As is show in the article there is oprtunity of salvation for every mankind if we just acept it
Romans 6, Whidden Ch 6, BRI's article by George Reid, Why Did Jesus Die? How God Saves Us
Reid answers his title’s question with a backdrop that includes the explanation of pagan religions. He explains that all pagan religions hinge upon the idea that the god(s) are angry at man and must be appeased. But the One and only Living God, the Creator, instead of being appeased of His anger, He initiates reconciliation, by stepping forward and dying as a sacrifice for us.
This is such a wonderful picture of God’s character. The greatest danger that Christians face, is to misunderstand the character of God. To understand that God was the One to initiate reconciliation, eases our minds as we attempt to approach God. So often we think God in His anger is hiding from us. This perhaps is one of Satan’s greatest deceptions. People in the Christian church are still perpetuating this with the doctrine of eternal hell. Some Christian denominations hold “revival” meetings where they scare the listeners half to death with word pictures of hell fire burning sinners for eternity. They call these sort of meetings “revivals”?! Motivating people to obey God out of fear is sad. Instead God’s plan of salvation included His Son’s incarnation and death on Calvary to show that God is not mad at us, but on the contrary, He loves us with a completely pure self-emptying agape. Obedience motivated out of love is the only thing God wants.
REFLECTION ON CHAPTER 9 OF THE BOOK ELLEN G WHITE ON SALVATION.
Basically chapter nine is about Justification by faith and its’ challenges. This subject is one of the cardinal doctrines of salvation. It is hardly inseparable from sanctification and glorification .The challenge posed a danger which made. Ellen G white to respond before the 1888 meeting to be held at Minneapolis. One of the problems was that some argued that, if justification is purely by faith alone, then keeping of the law is of no value. They had evidence that even the true believers don’t manifest the works of obedience. Indeed I strongly dispute this argument .For according to Paul, in Romans 12:7 says that, “the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.” Also in he continues to says Romans 3:31, that “Do we then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.” So this teaching was biblically incorrect. In addition , Ellen G White writes that” faith must be sustained by Works, the doers of Works are justified before God” To give more biblical evidence, this is what the father our of faith Abraham did by coming out of Haran. Calvinism was another challenge. For Calvin remarked that “once saved always saved.” Also I strongly disagree with Calvin, for salvation is in three phases according to the bible, hence it is past, present and future.
Ellen G White also denounces this teaching as unbiblical. She even goes further by saying that it is dangerous to say that “I am saved.” Even though I disagee with her as well because If one cannot give a testimony, then what kind of salvation can one claim? .Throughout the scripture, there are several incidents where all who were saved had to give a very strong testimony in favour of christ and his gospel. Therefore I fear that if there is no testmony, then salvation may not be complete.
Knock, knock,… who’s there”
Who can it be knocking at my door? I always thought there was only one person knocking at my door and asking to come in and sup with me. But I think now that sin personified has knocked at the door as well. Sin has knocked and Adam opened the door. Though Adam’s sin is not my sin, his door opening had an impact universally in that he allowed sin to take control of the world.
And so here we are trying to keep the door closed from anyone else entering. Maybe that’s why the Lord says he stands at the door and actively knocks from the outside. Because the door is not only closed to the outside, but it is also closed from the inside out.
In other words, we’ve not only locked out folks but we have also locked sin it. Adam opened that door and all hell has broken loose in our house. Can you hear it? “Knock, Knock…” this time, it’s not the door – it’s sin actively knocking your life against a wall and laughing about it. But wait…
“Knock, Knock…” This time it’s at the door. Sin seems timid at the sound of this knock. Sin is threatened at this knock. And who can it be? I mean, I made neither appointment nor gave an invitation for a visit.
“Knock, Knock…” this knock was not initiated by me. No this knock was earned and initiated by Him. The right to knock was earned in Jesus victoriously emerging with all power after the active, non-passive judgment was placed upon him. I shall, I will for the sake of objective grace, subjectively open the door and let glory in… who is this king of glory? The Lord strong and mighty! Who is this king of glory…
Commenting on:
• BRI Doc: Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, Justification and the Cross
• Romans 7, Class notes
• Whidden: The Atonement, Ch. 7
Week 7 Submission
Romans 7 points out that when we die with Christ, we die to the law. Right after that comes the promise that we are raised with Christ and united with Him. This second part is often left out when talking about our relation to the law. I appreciate how Paul upholds the law in chapter 7. He says the shows us our need. So often in preaching about the law, the emphasis is about the law being Ten Commandments that we need to keep because God said so. I saw the law in a new light while reading Romans 7 that needs to be highlighted. The law shows us we are all sinners and need Jesus and his grace. The law is about bringing us down on our knees rather than puffing us up with an attitude that says ‘I am better than you because I keep the right day!’
The BRI article about Christian perfection seemed to come at the discussion with an emphasis on righteousness by faith. I appreciated that they pointed out sin is much more than the deeds that we do that are wrong. It encompasses the state that we are in. In connection with this the article pointed out perfection as a maturity rather than avoiding a bunch of bad things in life. The article emphasized that the way to find victory is to abide in Christ. I agree that this is the key in dealing with sin. Sin is more powerful than us. But Christ is more powerful than sin and wants to work in our lives to give us victory.
I am not so sure about this sentence in the article: “In proportion to the maturity and completeness of his knowledge will be the completeness of his surrender and victory.” I think this puts too much stock in knowledge. I do believe that knowledge is important. But to balance it out there are some other key elements in having victory in our lives such as community (support from other believers) and experience (the heart to go with the head).
“Why Did Jesus Die? How God Saves Us”
George W. Reid
“Typical of pagan religions, the ancient Greeks worked to appease their gods, quieting the gods' anger and seeking favor with gifts and a regimen of specified deeds. Unfortunately, this concept persists among some Christians today, at times surfacing in arguments over faith and works. But appeasement on any grounds is a pagan idea worthy of rejection.”
This was a key insight. I often go into minor convulsion when people play up a substitutionary metaphor for Christ’s death. Did he die for us? Sure. But did he die because some entity required blood (either Satan or the Father)? That is much more problematic. Thus, this insight into the pagan idea of appeasement stood out for me.
Chapter 8 on Ellen White on Salvation
This chapter is iterating was Dr. Hanna has reiterated: The doctrine of Christ’s humanity has an intrinsic tension that should remain. All of this “Pre-fall/Post-fall” nonsense that goes on now is spending a lot of thought and energy that could be better used. Actually, Jan Paulsen recently gave an address that said the same type of thing—this argument is not worth the time and energy being put into it! It looks like Ellen White would agree.
Romans 7
“What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law” (verse 7).
Again, Paul is keeping people on task with holistic thinking. Do we have grace through Christ that transcends the law? Certainly. Does that mean the law is not necessary, or evil? Certainly not. I love the way Paul defines the law when he says, “I would not have known what sin was except through the law.” This definition keeps the law purposeful, without giving it too much emphasis.
MATENA KEFA O.
REflection on Romans Chapter 3.
FREE GIFT FOR ALL.
From our previous study in the book of Romans,we are able to see how, he [Paul] is building on several theological subjects from one stage to another.
In this chapter, Paul develops a relational concept in regard to his teaching on the great subject on righteousness.God's righteousness is His faithfulness to the covenant and to his people.God had promised that He could be Israel's God and they would be His people, hence His righteousness is that relational faithfulness to the covenant.
Human righteousness cannot be identical to God's, for God and humans do not come to the covenant on equal terms,nevertheless human and divine righteouness are closely related.Both are relational in nature.Human righteouness has to do with being in proper covenant relationship with God.Because of the universal sin problem of both Gentiles and Jews that Paul had earlier outlined, the solution is for God to take the initiative and set this relationship right. God's righteousnessis His faithful action on behalf of His people.This action comes throuh Jesus Christ.In christ God acts as the faithful Judge who vindicates the oppressed.God is not only righteous, He also justifies humanns by His grace.Meaning that God sets His people into a right relationship with Him and restores the covenant that they had broken.It is worth noting that the concept under study has a social dimension.The covenant not only creates creates individual relationship with God; but also it creates a people in a relationship with God.When God establishes a righteousness through Christ,it isnot merely to let individuals know know how they can be saved; it is to create a new community in relationship to Himself that includes both Jews and Gentiles[Galatians 3:29].Righteouness by faith is not only a method for individual salvation; instead it is God's action to form a new covenant community.Seemingly, many debates in regard to righteousness, both in Adventist cycles and in the wider christian community, seems to miss this social dimension.God'righteouness is a community forming righteousness, which in turn creates a people, God's people, who share in His blessings together.This people is all-embracing people that excludes no one on the basis of race, gender,nation or status.
MATENA KEFA O.
REFLECTION ON CHAPTER 4 OF ROMANS.
ABRAHAM OUR FOREFATHER.
Paul finds Abraham, the undisputed forefather of the Jews, to be the perfect example to prove two basic points he has to make namely;Salvation is based on faithin God's grace, not works, and that salvation is for all.The first point gets support from Genesis 15:6, which reads "Abraham believed the Lord,and credited it t him as righteouness" The second is Genesis 17:5, Where God says to Abram,"no will you be called Abram; your name will be called Abraham,for i have made you a father of many nations".The above texts are useful as Paul labours to confirm that Abraham is the best model example to use as he makeshis Point.Abraham trusted God not works[vvs.3-5].Abraham received righteousness as agift, not as wages[v.4].Abraham was uncircumcised when he was justified [v.10].Abraham became heir through promise, not law [v.13].Abraham became, the father of all[vvs.12,16] Abraham hoped against hope [v.18].Abraham was strong, not weak in faith vvs.20,21].Abraham was an example for us [vs.23].It was Abraham's faith or trust that led him to being counted righteous before God.The word credited tells us that according to Paul Abraham received righteousness on the basis of grace,not works.This grace is appropriated by Abraham's faith in God who justifies the wicked [v.5].Two importants worth noting are; One,God's righteousness is not only made known but it is also effected by the sacrifice of atonement by Jesus Christ.Second,God's acquittal is more than a forensic declalation;it is an initiative that sets the situation right and actually makes a difference by bringing the wicked into a new relationship with Abraham trusting such a God, and it was credited to him as rightousness. This hence makes him a perfect example of righteousness by grace through faith.Abraham's example affirms God's impartial generosity to all people,Jews, and Gentiles, and assures every one of us that God is our Saviour too.
The Cosmic Christ of Scripture has been object of my meditation. It is easy to follow. Anyone whose English is second or third, or fourth language can read it and get the message that is being communicated there. One will not go away from this book with seeing Christ, Scripture, and Nature lifted up. It is fascinating to know that theology can be as challenging as science. It is as difficult to understand the cosmic Christ of Scripture as it is to understand Creation through Science. In fact, true theology needs to be humble, dynamic, and open. Scripture does not make it easy for anyone to minimize the cosmos.
I like the middle of page 25 where Dr. Hannah makes reference of true science and theology.
It goes like this “true science and theology involve the mind of Christ, a cooperation of faith and reason, and recognition of the limits of faith and reason.” To me, neither can get away with it.
They both need each other to be holistically well sounded.
I like the way you make your appeal to non Adventists. Prophecy is fulfilled before my very eye because according to Daniel 12:4 many will run to and from because knowledge will be increased. The saints will integrate faith and learning says Dr. Hannah. I notice both Christians and non Christians will be participating in the increase of knowledge. That’s nice! Does it mean God is respecter of person?
Montes Estinphil
Earl
Reflection #1 Rom 1, BRI Adam and the Human Race in the Writings of E. G. White, Ch1&2 Ellen white on Salvation
In reflecting on the reading done for week one I was able to gain a better insight into the issue of Salvation. Unlike most I am still struggling to truly grasp the concept of salvation as discussed in the class. As it would appear my model of salvation was to simplistic and requires more energy and thought. After reading about the struggle that Ellen Harmon had to go through in regard to the perfect sanctification of life. I must admit that I have began to question my reasoning for my views about salvation through grace. I understand the importance of nurture and its impact on our lives. I can also appreciate the time in which my life has been molded. But at the core of the matter this class has surfaced a deep need within to better understand why I believe what I believe and devote more time and effort to better understand the principles involved in salvation. The impact of Adam fall depicted in the BRI article by Mr. Rodríguez was also very helpful and thought provoking. Because prior to this assignment my scope in regard to the implications of Adams sin was mixed. I understand the fact as representative Adam failed us but I guess I never thought that our existence was completely based on him accepting God salvation. I was always under the assumption that the task would have been passed on from generation to generation until we got it right. Another concept I never give much consideration to was the fact that at the fall of Adam we became slave to sin. This was also interesting to because I viewed sin at that point as and option not as a requirement. Meaning that we still had the choice not to sin but since we too fail to choose God at this point it was only then that Jesus had to come and die on the cross. Hence that is why in Romans 1: 18 we read of the wrath of God revealed against ungodliness. Because it was the continued rejection of man not the initial rejection of Adam that angered God.
“ Bear with me Work in progress”
I appreciated the discussion on page 50 of Whidden’s book regarding the wrath of God. He states that Ellen Whites view there are many indications of God’s active wrath against sinners. Furthermore, he points out that God is the sustainer of life and that His ultimate restraining power over the forces of evil is what protects us from harm. (pg. 50). God is the One who gives “self-destructing sinners” probationary time.
Whidden then urges we take a step further and states “Doesn’t it seem that God would be just as surely responsible for the death of sinner by withdrawing His life-giving power as He would be in directly destroying them by the fires of hell? Since God is the source of all life, it is quite apparent that He is also ultimately the one who allows death! And whether such death is actively brought on or passively allowed really makes no difference if one wants to lift the ultimate responsibility for the death of sinners from God. The really definitive question is not whether God’s justice is active or passive, but whether it is just and consistent with His character of merciful love.” (pg. 50-51).
I think he hit the nail on the head. That is what its all about--whether God is who He says He is or if He is a tyrannical liar like satan accuses Him of. In the end, we know from a Biblical view that God will ultimately destroy sin and the devil and all those who chose to remain in sin. Furthermore, we know that prior to destroying sin and sinners and the devil and his angels, it will be revealed to both the righteous and the wicked of all ages that God is just and how He has dealt with the sin problem is just and loving all at the same time.
I appreciated the chapter.
COMMENTS ON CLASS DISCUSSION:
I just wanted to comment on the discussion in class about whether the devil partakes of God’s grace due to the fact that he is alive still. I have thought about this several times since accepting Christ as my Savior, and it never ceases to amaze me that God’s character is so just and honorable that He would put forth daily effort to sustain the life of beings who’s whole purpose is to destroy and malign His [God’s] character and authority.
It gives a different perspective to loving your enemies and giving them a glass of water. It is an honor and love and justice that I do not comprehend. I want to though. I want that kind of character in my life. A character that loves and serves my enemies, even when they are all about destroying me.
Articles Read: “The Dynamics of Salvation”
by Righteousness by Faith Consultation
Romans 7
Ellen White On Salvation, Chapter 7.
Whidden discusses in this chapter the atonement views of Ellen White. He shows that although Ellen White used the word ‘atonement’ in a very broad sense, it included “all the Trinity has done or is doing, and will do to save man.” She often emphasized the penal-substitutionary model to show the “justness of God’s love”. Yet I find that the ideas of penalty, substitution and satisfaction are less favored over the “moral influence” model of Christ’s dying because of God’s love for a lost world.
Ellen White’s view of the cross as covered in The Desire of Ages depicts in as far as human language can detail the PRICE that Jesus paid for our redemption. A penalty had to be paid and even Jesus prayed to His Father to be exempted.
I think that the Old Testament sanctuary system also depicted this penal-substitutionary model quite well in the death of the sacrificial animals brought by the offending sinner to the sanctuary. It is so easy to forget that forgiveness COSTS God an infinite price. Justice demanded that the price be paid and we could never measure up to these demands. So I agree with Whidden that “without a powerful sense of retributive justice, justification by faith dissolves into sentimental indulgence.”
In Roman 7 Paul discusses the obligation the law places upon him and the conflict that arise in him because of the presence of the “law of sin” in his sinful nature. I know that many discuss whether this conflicting experience was pre-conversion or post-conversion for Paul. I think that this was the latter because Paul speaks of a “delight in God’s Law” (v. 22) and I cannot imagine the unconverted person speaking of a delight to do God’s will.
So if this is our post-conversion experience this means that we have a daily battle to fight and God’s grace has to be applied at every “stage” of our salvation. As per class discussion, the neat justification sanctification glorification model would not work here. This means that for Paul and the Christian, every day we need justification AND sanctification working in our lives.
Notice also how Paul claims “it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. (v. 17). He is not claiming personal responsibility but utter helplessness at doing anything good on his own. Although this can be used to argue for ‘total depravity’ of man, Paul still senses that there is a struggle and a totally depraved person will not even sense this struggle. Just how much of God’s image is left inside man so that he is still “enabled” to respond may be a mystery but we know that if God totally abandoned man he would die right away.
Hence as the BRI articles succinctly stated, “We cannot fully comprehend the manner in which the Holy Spirit energizes our wills to produce faith. We may say that we receive God's salvation because we have chosen to do so, but we must affirm also that whatever is human in faith is possible only because of the divine initiative in the work of the Holy Spirit. Thus there can be no "boasting" in our faith (Rom. 3:27).”
Salvation Week 7 Submission
This week I read Romans 7, chapter 8 in EGW on Salvation, and the article How Perfect is “Perfect” or Is Christian Perfection Possible? I always have fun trying to comment on everything in the reading and I won’t be able to do it this time either. I was very impressed by the article this week. I have really been thinking about the doctrine of Salvation for some time. I have found that my conclusions are often not popular and there are people who don’t agree with me most of the time. Because of this I have done a lot of rethinking what I believe and I have not been able to find the faults in my thinking that some other people are able to find. This article restated what I already thought. I have many times heard people say things like yes you can come to Christ as you are but you have to clean up your own life before you are baptized. How is it that you clean up your own life? I have heard people say that we have a work to do. In saying this they imply that somehow we are just in partnership with God. When we truly understand how bad we are and how bad sin is we find that we are totally and completely rotten to the core. If that is true then what work can we do to fix ourselves? God has to intervene just to give us the option of serving Him. If we are that bad what can we do for ourselves? Does that mean that we just sit on our butts? No, it doesn’t, but it does mean that we don’t have any power to do anything ourselves. In surrendering ourselves we give full control to God. He is the only one that can save and change us. Our responsibility is to surrender every part of our life and stay connected to Him. I once had a teacher that said something that really made sense to me, when we surrender our lives to Christ we surrender our right to an agenda. God decides what we change when and He works out that change in us. It isn’t us that do anything. I know many people who feel that they have to do part of the work and they often are some of the most bitter and mean people that you will ever meet. It is only in knowing how bad we are that we become compassionate toward others who struggle as we do. This week’s article was very helpful in helping me see this. See ya next week.
Read this week:
Romans 7; Ellen White on Salvation- Chapter 7;
Dynamics of Salvation by Righteousness by Faith Cons.
Ellen White’s concepts of the atonement were highlighted by Whidden in this Chapter.
Much of her work on the subject of atonement may appear at first glance elementary and
theologically limited, but in the emerging discussions profound theological concepts are being
gleaned from her writings. She clearly shows that the Trinity was integrally involved, is still
involved and will continue to play substantial theme effort in the reconciliation of man to
God.
Interestingly though, Mrs. White’s views of the subject appear to be quite independent of
her contemporaries, slanting instead to the Biblical concept rather than historic views.
Whidden does note however that Mrs. White does fall into three of the prevailing theories
regarding the subject. One such notion is the Moral Influence Theory which purports that
Christ’s death at Calvary is God loving response to a lost race. That God’s justice is not
exemplified in Christ’s sacrifice. While moral influence cannot be denied, God must
ultimately eradicate the disease of sin from His universe. The Satisfaction Theory on the other
hand advocates that God’s justice demands satisfaction and that Christ’s death meets the
required propitiation. However, God is not seeking satisfaction, but reconciliation!
On the other hand the Penal-Substitutionary Theory which holds that God’s justice demands
a penalty for the transgression of His law. While all three concepts are held throughout
Christendom; Seventh-day Adventist and particularly our articles this week (including
Whidden’s Ellen White on Salvation) seem to hold to the penal- Substitutionary Theory.
Indeed, the act of rebellion has a natural consequence-death. Paul emphasizes that while we
were yet sinner Christ died to redeem us from sin. Fitz Guy is indeed right- Christ death is not
God sending someone to die in our stead, but God Himself died so that we might live.
Debbedo Brown
Chapter7 "Atonement"
Romans 6
It was very refreshing and admirable the way in which Woodrow presented the wholistic or balance perspective of Ellen White on the subject of the atonement. The atonement has been misrepresented and limited by many to certain aspect of Jesus ministry. Some today promulgate the belief that the atonement was finished and does not go beyond the cross. Consequently, they do not believe that the atonement is apart of Christ High Priestly ministry. The word atonement means at-one-ment, the process of bringing God and man at one. Christ death on the cross-brought about reconciliation between God and Man, Paul says “God was in Christ at the cross reconciling the world unto Himself.” Therefore, since atonement involves the process of reconciliation between God and man it is very evident that it took place at the cross. What about Christ High Priestly ministry? The Bible makes it clear that we have a high priest in the heaven through which we have direct access to the Father and that His purpose their also includes reconciliation between God and man. Since, this is so evidently then the High priestly ministry of Christ does involve atonement. Furthermore, in the ancient sanctuary system on the Day of Atonement when the high priest entered the sanctuary with the blood of the Lord’s goat and sprinkled it there the Bible says, “he made an atonement for the people.” The high priest ministry was a shadow or representation of Christ ministry, the pleading and application of Christ’s blood in the Heavenly sanctuary on the sinner’s behalf clearly includes atonement similar to that of the ancient high priest, but in greater magnitude. Therefore, the big picture or inclusive view of the atonement is that it happened at the cross and stretches beyond the cross into the High Priestly ministry of Christ. The thing that should not be lost sight of is that the atonement that happened at the cross was in no way limited or was in no way incomplete. It was a full and complete atonement in which the penalty for man’s sin was completely atoned for. Atonement was full and complete at the cross but its benefits or application in the believer’s life is what Christ is performing in the heavenly sanctuary.
Reflection 6 The Atonement; Rom.6
In the Writings from E.G. White on the Atonement, she writes that through the cross man was drawn to God, and the sinner was drawn from the stronghold of sin. She continues to say the cross speaks of more than mercy. She gives also a powerful condemnation of sin by the “holy love of a Holy God.” This holiness of God is depicted in the Law. Before the law of Moses, man died from sin; as by one man sin entered into the world, and death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned Rom. 5:11 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. vs13 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. (Jesus) vs14. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.vs.15
The law revealed the penalty and sinfulness of sin, revealing also the guilt and true nature of sin.
Rom 5:20 states where sin abounded, grace did much more abound. Where sin exists, grace brings deliverance. So Paul asks shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Rom 6:1
He then answers vs. 2: God Forbid. How then shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Which then is greater sin or grace? The work of grace is greater than the work of sin. Where there is a superabundance of sin - grace outweighed the sin. It goes deeper than the act; It did much more abound through faith in Jesus.
This act of grace, Paul is saying changes the nature of the believer. The practice of sin is foreign to one who is no longer living in the sinful nature. Because of this abundant grace, Christ’s death saves from sin. Being made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. Rom. 6:18
Dale Baker
BRI: How Perfect Is "Perfect" Or Is Christian Perfection Possible?
Ellen White: 'The Nature of Christ and Salvation'
Discussions about the nature of Christ have sparked much discussion in the Adventist church. There is much disparity about the fact of whether or not Christ took on full humanity and divinity. There is also much discussion on whether or not He used His divinity to overcome sin. I am persuaded that if He used His divinity to help Him overcome the temptations that He faced, then He could not be my savior.
Clearly, it is a mystery for us to comprehend the idea that Christ had a blend of divinity and humanity. How can God and man dwell in one body? This is where I believe faith comes in, to help us grasp this idea.
Another discussion that always comes to the fore when discussing about the nature of Christ, is whether or not Christ could have sinned. But Whidden has made a profound statement on the issue where he said that “the power of temptation is always strengthened by a previous experience in sin.” Thus I believe from this that since Christ overcame all the time, His strength to resist temptation was always high; not like us who have messed up several times. This does not mean however, that Christ cannot identify with persons who struggle with habitual sins. I believe He can identify with all sinners, because he felt the pangs of sin.
Romans 7 &Whidden chapter 7. “Atonement”
“O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord….” (Rom.7:24, 25). The apostle Paul states in Romans 7 his great struggle with the law of God and the law of sin. He reasons that in his members there is a continual struggle for supremacy by the sinful man. This struggle will ultimately bring forth fruit unto death. It is his desire however, to overcome in this battle for allegiance. He cries out in the last few verses of this chapter with deep agony of soul, “O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of death? And in response to this heart searching question he responds, “I thank God through Christ our Lord.” Paul acknowledges that Jesus is his only help in his predicament. It is Christ who will work in him both to will and to do of his good pleasure. It is Christ’s mind that will be in him so that he will not become a slave to the law of sin. The Apostle thanks God, and in his expression of thankfulness he expresses something profound that is relevant to 21st century Christians, and that is the sinful desires and inclinations that we encounter as believers in this salvation experience has been atoned for by Christ, but the believer must respond to the saviors great work by daily dying to the old man.
This seems to be premise of Whidden in chapter 7 of his book on salvation. Whidden explores Ellen White’s perspective on salvation. In his exposition of the prophetess’s view of atonement I learnt some crucial principles, two of which stands out for me:
1. In Christ great work of atonement there is a healthy balance between his justice and mercy.
2. The atonement theme in the writings of Ellen white has a more cosmic scope rather than a point in history. Praise God atonement did not end at the cross.
These two profound points helps us to put Ellen White’s views on atonement into perspective. She did not just see atonement on one dimension, but had a broader view of this most important concept. It is very clear that in her writings we see a God whose justice is not passive, but active, and this is consistent with his love. I agree with Whidden that our concept of God’s wrath is limited. We must recognize God’s wrath is of such that he must finally put an end to those who reject his offers of a just mercy. I appreciate the fact that he places the various views on atonement in the right perspective in the light of the writings of Ellen White. This has helped to clear up many misconceptions. I am happy that atonement did not end at the cross, but Jesus continues this work even in the sanctuary above. And so like Paul I thank God for Jesus my atoning savior.
Week Seven
Heather Barbian
Romans 7: Paul starts this chapter with an illustration of marriage saying that while we are alive we are under the law but if we are dead (or our spouses) we are free from the Law. Therefore we are dead to the Law so we may belong to one another. Therefore we are released from the law and are not bound to it. The second part of the chapter is on struggles with sin.
Whidden, Woodrow W. “Chapter Seven: The Atonement,” from: Ellen White on Salvation. Berrien Springs: R&H Catalog Service.
Ellen Whites ideas of the Atonement are tied into the great controversy theme as well as justice and mercy. Her beliefs on Atonement are also tied into the concepts of penalty, substitution and satisfaction. The atonement also becomes the model of Christian Character. This is because it models love and forgiveness. The atonement can especially be seen in Gethsemane.
Rodríguez, Ángel Manuel. Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10
http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/Justification1Tm4,10.htm
This article is addressing those who use 1 Timothy 4:10 to justify a universal salvation for those who do not directly reject salvation. The issue lies within the interpretation of the second part of the verse which says “the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.” How can God be the savior of all men, which is distinguished from those who believe?
One possibility is that “the word "Savior" means here "Benefactor" in the sense that God provides for the needs of all people.” I find this theory unsatisfactory. Another theory is that it does not match up with the other letters in the New Testament. My favorite explanation is through an understanding of “the phrase "the Savior of all men" on the basis of 1 Tim 2:4, that is to say, that God is the Savior of all in the sense that He desires "all men to be saved." Then, the phrase "specially of those who believe" would designate those who have accepted the offer of salvation by faith in Christ.” This makes the most sense to me. This hermeneutical dilemma could also be solved by translating especially as "that is, in other words".
Earl
Reflection # 2 Rom 2, BRI Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification by Larry Kane. And Chapter3 on Ellen White on salvation by Whidden
Upon completion of the reading for week two they are several commonalities within the readings. Chapter 3 of Whidden’s book on Ellen White is speaking about the time leading up to the 1888 and the types of Christians Mrs. White is encountering. Likewise in Romans chapter 2 Paul is speaking about a similar problem in that people are becoming judges of the law and preaching perfectionism while they themselves are unable to live up to their very own expectations they hold others accountable for. In addition to this problem we see sister White confronting Anti- Law extremists who at professing that no one will get to heaven by keeping the law. Mrs. White was quick to defend and challenge this perspective stating that “ Sinners are to be converted from the breaking of God law to the obedience of God ‘s law.” She went on to state that salvation by obedience to the law is impossible, but salvation without obedience is also just as impossible. From these statements one can gather that the conflict between the 1888 committee and the Biblical research institute has be taken place prior to they conception and will continue to take place until rectification takes place by the hand of God himself. As discussed in class I am of the opinion that God’s plan of salvation is so large to ensure equal opportunities of all men and women that it would be impossible for us to interpret scripture to mean only one thing. Our perspectives are limited and thus unable to comprehend the true ramifications behind God plan of salvation and the delicate equilibrium required. I belief rather than exerting our energies trying to disprove others theology we should begin to embrace scripture and God and its ability to mean different things to different people. To much energy is being wasting on discredited each other (becoming judges) that follows Jesus ‘s example given to us in scripture about love. This is even evident in the article written about Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification by Larry Kane.
The article in brief summary is basically stating that Jesus sacrifice on the cross, accomplished legal salvation for all sins. From Adam fall in Eden to every sin committed until his return. Thus all man must do is accept this gift of salvation and nothing else is required similar to the arguments stated earlier from Romans 2 and Chapter 3 of Whiddens book. My prayer is that we as the believers of God would come to the realization that we do not have to understand and explain everything to be saved and stop making majors of minors and start respecting and loving each other.
Earl
Reflection # 3
Rom 3 Christ Saved the Human Race by: Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, And Chapter 4 on Ellen White on salvation by Whidden
The readings for week number three all dealt with the dilemma of whether or not Jesus’ death on the cross legally saved the entire human race from certain destruction.
This topic was extremely import to all because according to Paul in Romans 3: 23-24 we have all sinned and fallen short of Gods’ expectations and are unable to earn of own salvation and it is only by a gift of God we have received another chance. As a result of our failure we have also lost our connection with God. This is evident in the article by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez on writing from Ellen White entitled Christ Saved the Human Race. In this article the point was made that Humans have become alienated from God, as a result of the fall in Eden. The consequence of this failure was disconnection between God and man. Jesus than had to became a living bridge between God and humans because he was both, human and divine. This was Christ's objective act of salvation. He made it possible for human beings to be united with God; he "connected earth with heaven." But only repentant sinners can benefit from that salvation.
Which means that yes our sins where paid for but for salvation to take place according to the reading this week a final step must take place prior to our salvation. We must ask God for it and in doing so accept God as our master and savior. Similar to that of the mortgage crisis that is taking place nationally. We have failed to meet the requirements of our mortgages and as a result our loans have fallen in default. But just prior to foreclosure of our property another leader purchases our loans and extends grace by offering lower interest rates and payments and all we have to do is apply for these new terms. This new leader has complete ownership to our loans similar to the price paid on the cross by Jesus. However this new leader does not what to see us lose of properties and extends credit to us that we do not deserve by offering sanctification and salvation as if we have a perfect credit score but similar to a loan we must apply before we can get that loan, Jesus is saying we must ask for forgiveness and except him to receive his loan of Salvation.
Earl
Reflection # 4
Rom 4, BRI Comments on 1Timothy 4:10 by: Angel Manuel Rodriguez and Chapter 5 on Ellen White on salvation by Whidden
In reflecting on this weeks reading assignments the issue was raised by Angel Rodriguez about 1 Tim 4:10. Which states: “For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.” The problem raised in this article was the fact that the text implies that they are different types of salvation. The text also implies that to those who believe and ask for this gift of salvation from Jesus they will receive a special gift. Which in turn raised several questions and issues. We have come to understand that God is the savior of all people the Jew and the gentile alike. Because we have all failed and fallen short of the glory of God. But does this text suggest that we are all saved and nothing else is required of us to receive the gift of salvation? Why are so many becoming obsessed and upset about the fact that God would grant salvation to those undeserving of his gift of salvation. The story of Jonah and the parable of the laborers in the vineyard come to mind. Both the laborers and Jonah became upset about God’s love and grace to an undeserving people. But may I beg us to remember that the gift of salvation is not ours to bestow but it belongs to God and God alone. And the requirements of his gift are the least of our trouble and rather we should be more considered with earnest obedience to his will to help aid us receiving this gift of salvation. We should be more concerned according to Mrs. White with being prepared to meet the Lord, hasten of the coming of the Lord by witnessing to the world and stop delaying the Second Advent. Paul addresses a similar situation in regard to the gift of salvation imparted to Abraham and we see this in Romans 4. Where we learn that Abraham was counted righteous prior to any works on his part. Likewise God can do the same for us or anyone he chooses. What really matters is our willingness to serve and obey.
Earl
Reflection # 5
Rom 5, BRI Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs by Angel Rodriguez and Chapter 6 on Ellen White on salvation by Whidden
In reflecting on this weeks reading all three sources dealt with the same issue of transference of sin and the extent in which the sin of Adam affected the entire human race. This topic posse some very thought provoking ideas and thus far in my reading peaked the greatest interest. Rodriguez in his article describes the study done on the finding of the 1888 committee on the issue of “in Adam” and “in Christ”. The result of the study show that the finding of the committee we not conclusive. One perspective was that “all of Adam's descendants were in him and when he sinned they also sinned with Adam.” The second perspective is Adam “sin was imputed to all humanity. Because his sin was imputed to all of us we inherit corruption.” My question to these arguments is why then would God all this transference of sin to take place? Why didn’t God stop sin right then and there? If God knew the results and the consequences of sin why allow so many generations to go by before sending Jesus? Did God hope we would rectify the problem our self? Were we capable of making the right decision in the presence of sin? According to Ellen White the corruption of sin left human kind incapable of good and enslaved to it will. Because the conflict of sin in also apparent in Roman 5 which strengthens the argument of the 1888 committee about the doomed human race due to Adam failures. But it also reaffirms that Jesus sacrifice on the cross also affected the human race but for the positive and redeemed us from certain destruction. But even with all this said I keep coming back to the same question why the wait? Why the delay? Did something need to take place before Jesus could rectify the problem of Adam’s sin? I do not know and will continue to search and will appreciate any help on this matter.
Reflection # 6
BRI. The Dynamics of Salvation, Romans 6 and chapter 7 Ellen White on salvation by Whidden
After completing the reading on the dynamics of salvation I cannot help but feel guilty. I understand that I am a sinner and that I was born into sin but I cannot come to terms with the fact that I am consistently inconsistent about my commitment to God. At times, I even shrug off the pleading of the Holy Spirit to follow God calling simply because I take God’s grace for granted. And often forgetting that they is a war taking place of which I am apart. On the other side of the coin I sometimes find myself running ahead of God into battle trying to prove my worth and constantly find myself lacking. The role of the Christians is truly a weird life. We are constantly called to duty, but it is a duty of submissiveness contrary to every thing that we have come to know as sinners on this earth. It has proven to be a life of constant struggle, an uphill battle, swimming against the currents and it is only through a gift we gain success. It is only by God’s gift of salvation can we accomplish a new life in Christ without sin by faith and submission to his will. “Having accepted salvation through faith, we do not now trust in human accomplishment (Gal. 3:1-5). At every point in the new life, from its beginning to its ultimate glorification, we depend entirely on grace received through faith. We are to nurture faith. Growth is not automatic; obedience is not mechanical, ” because of our sinful nature. Rather as Paul says we must become slaves to righteousness and give up our sinful desires. Because the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord.
Earl
Reflection # 7
BRI. How Perfect Is "Perfect" Or Is Christian Perfection Possible?, Romans 7 and chapter 8 Ellen White on salvation by Whidden
Perfection! What does it really mean in regard to the Christian life? Is it possible for a born again Christian to live a sinless life? These issues have plagued the hearts of many leaving unanswered questions for decades. This week’s reading by Edward Heppenstall helped us take a closer look at these issues. As if the Christian struggle was not already difficult enough we have some who are setting what I believe to be unattainable expectations about living a sinless life. Causing many believers mature and young to become spiritually frustrated with the progress or inability to accomplish their goals. According to the author, a "perfect" Christian is one whose heart and mind are permanently committed to Christ, cannot be moved Noah, Abraham, and Job were all declared to be "perfect" men. Yet the history of their lives shows that they were far from being sinless. So I ask again what does it mean to be perfect? My understanding of this is simply it is when we have a never ending appetite for Jesus and unquenchable thirst for his presence in our life it is when we never cease to take our eyes off of Jesus our savior and redeemer. I am in complete agreement with the example given by Heppenstall in saying; “Peter sank in the waves the moment he took his eyes off Christ. He sank because he had the tendency to sink in water. The only thing that kept him walking on top of the sea was the power of Christ momentarily exercised counteracting the gravitational power to pull him down.” The scripture even warns us against those who claim to be sinless and perfect saying that if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. Even Paul speaks of the trials of doing the very thing that he hates because of the sin that dwells within. And it is only through Jesus sacrifice we are made whole. Whidden in this weeks reading speaks pertaining to the nature of Christ and trinity. Stating that the only person to have been born to this earth and live a sinless life was Jesus. The author goes on to state that Jesus was affected by sin but was not infected by sin like the rest of us. And this is why Jesus was able to resist the temptations of the devil. Whatever the reason I think we need to come to a clear doctrinal understanding about perfection and help this already tough journey a little more bearable.
During the course of this class my mind has been stretched, twisted, and chopped. In my following posts I'm sure you will be able to pick up on some of my frustration. As I have been reading the articles and the book it seems impossible for me to make intelligent comments on a theme that we are told (by Ellen White)that we will be studying throughout eternity. So what will come is my very humble opinions of what I understand and believe at this present time.
Why study salvation? For all of us, I'm sure there have been times where we have questioned our own salvation. It was refreshing to read in Whidden's book the personal struggles that Ellen White had regarding her own salvation. How many of us have tried to explain to church members that just going to church on Sabbath is not enough. That believing that they are a "good person" doesn't count. So many of our members worry about whether they are saved or not. Romans chapter 1 clearly portrays the sinful condition in which we all find ourselves in. What hope do we have? Are we saved? Are we lost? Do we need to know? The apostle John thought so, in 1 John 5:13 "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." John says, you should know that you are saved. What a difference it would make in our churches (or could I even say within our own lives) if we had the assurance of salvation.
Read: Chapters 1 & 2 in Whidden
Romans 1 & "Adam and the Human Race"
In Larry Kane's article "Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal
'Legal' Justification", he responds to a key belief promoted by the 1888 study committee. The belief being that Christ provided objective justification for the world through His death on the Cross. In relationship to that Kane also addresses the issue of the "in Christ" motif and also the implications of universalism.
This article (along with almost all the others that I read) states the major differences between the BRI and the 1888 committee. I have struggled with how to comment on each article seperately because to me they seem to overlap so much.
The way I understood it was the major difference between the two opionions is that the 1888 committee believes that when Christ died on the cross He provided salvation for the entire world. According to Kane, the salvation provided only beomes valid when the sinner chooses to accept the gift of salvation through faith. If a sinner does not respond through faith the gift of salvation does not apply.
I have a major problem with this view based on Romans 2:14-15 when Paul talking about Jews and Gentiles wrote, "Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even thoug they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written of their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them." According to my understanding Paul is saying that when a person (in this case a Gentile) lives their life according to what they believe to be right, God views that in the same light as someone (a Jew) who has had the privilege of knowing the law and following it. In other words God will judge according to the light that has been given.
Kane and the BRI stress that in order to be saved a person must confess faith in what Christ did for them. What if that person has never heard of Christ? How can that person confess faith in someone he/she has never even heard of? Will that person be lost?
I have waited for some author to bring this quote into the discussion, "Among the heathen are those who worship God ignorantly, those to whom the light is never brought by human instumentality, yet they will not perish. Though ignorant of the written law of God, they have heard His voice speaking to them in nature, and have done the things that the law required. Their works are evidence that the Holy Spirit has touched their hearts, and they are recognized as the children of God." (Desire of Ages p.638)
Will these individuals be in heaven because they have confessed faith in Christ as Kane has defined it? What about babies who will be placed in mother's arms at the resurrection?
In my opinion Kane's arguments (as well as the other articles --so far) have not answered that question.
Read: Romans 2, "Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal 'Legal' Justification" and Whidden chapter 3.
Whidden's chapter, "James and Ellen: Their Compelling Personal Testimonies" gives an interesting perspective on the "humanity" of Ellen White. Unfortunately for many today Ellen White has become some sort of "saint" within the minds of many church members. We can forget that she was very much human with her own struggles of doubt and depression much like we suffer. I would encourage any to read the 5 volume biography on her life done by Arthur White (if you haven't already done so).
Whidden's chapter would help anyone who has struggled with the issue of perfection in their own life.
Read:Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10
"James and Ellen: Their Compelling Personal Testimonies" & Romans 4
Read: Whidden, chapter 5, Romans 5, & "Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs"
My knowledge of the 1888 committee is pretty limited. I do have some knowledge of Jack Sequira (pardon the spelling)and I don't know how close the two are related. Anyway I have heard Sequira talk about the "in Christ" motif. Now I realize I could have misunderstood his comments, but I never got the idea from him that somehow we were all physically or in any other sense present in Adam or in Christ. (I want to listen to the tape again) What he does talk about is in Hebrews 7:9 where it talks about Levi being "in Abraham" when Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek. Hebrews 7:9 states, "One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor." Was Levi physically present in Abraham when he gave a tithe? No, but Paul clearly is making a connection between the ancestor and the decendant. There is a clear connection between Adam and all of humanity as there is with Christ and all of humanity. The results of Adam's sin are universal the results of Christ death are universal.
Honestly, Romans chapter 8 is challenging to me. When I really ask about living for the flesh or the Spirit; I find that too often I am living my life for the temporal rather than being concerned about the Kingdom of God. I yearn to be filled with God’s Spirit and to be more passionate about what matters to God. I know that this is a lifelong journey and that it is not necessarily easy. I have fallen into the trap of viewing pastoral work as a job rather than a ministry. I am praying that God will restore to me my first love of Him. Let us each experience what it means to live according to the Spirit. God’s foreknowledge in verse 29 still leaves me wondering what it means.
I agree with the BRI article that says it is the results that passed on to humankind, not the sin itself. It does not make sense to me how people could be realistically in Adam when he sinned. This sentence caught my attention: “As Adventists we do believe that the sin of Adam weakened human nature making our sinning unavoidable.” It seems that in many cases Adventists teach contrary to this. We are often brought up with the attitude of pull yourself up by your bootstraps. You can overcome if you try hard enough. I think that our inability to overcome with God’s help is an important message because we rely on ourselves too much.
I appreciate the balance that Ellen White had when she dealt with the nature of Christ. Since she emphasized sometimes the uniqueness of Christ at times and that Christ identified with us at other times; it seems people can take those statements and try to push an agenda. The thought made sense to me that Christ did not experience every same temptation that we face, especially since he did not deal with habitual sin. Rather Christ faced the same principles as us (the temptation to depend on self rather than on God’s power). After all one definition of sin is “what is not from faith” - Romans 14:23.
Reflections on Fundamental Beliefs of SDA; The nature of Christ and Salvation; Romans VII
The 25th fundamental belief is regarding the Second Coming of Christ.
If we were to ask a group of believers what would be the reason for anticipation of Christ’s return, I’m sure there would be varied answers. His coming is considered a blessed hope. Titus 2:13 exclaims: Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ. To many who have lost loved ones it would be a blessed hope of reunion.
Romans 8:19 Paul in his controversy between good and evil writes: For the good that I would, I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Many who are tired of sin and evil long for the time when evil will be done away and sin will be no more.
If we truly believe that Jesus will come soon, while we are in the 163 year marking of the “great disappointment,” what might believers awaiting Christ’s return be praying for?
1. Pray for Christ’s soon
return.
2. Outpouring of the Holy
Spirit
3. God to refine and purify
us from earthliness
4. Unsaved loved ones
5. Singleness of purpose
6. Help us to be soul winners
for Christ
7. Our will may be aligned
with God’s will
8. Live boldly for Christ
9. Make our calling and
election sure
10. Revival and reformation
11. Repentance
12. To be made aware of un-
confessed sins
13. Protection
14. Become one with Christ and
fellowman
15. Increase our Faith
Remember these and add others to your list.
May God bless!
“Some Problems with Legal Universal Justification”
Angel Manuel Rodriguez
“Universal legal justification tends to see faith as a threat to Christ's objective work of salvation. Faith is almost perceived or viewed as a meritorious act that has no role to play in God's legal justification of the human race.”
It seems as if, as Dr. Hanna has pointed out in class, the BRI gets hung up on “splitting hairs” in response to the 1888 committee, etc. This is one of those cases that is more about arguing the metaphor and vocabulary, and less about doing theology relevant to the world today.
Chapter 9 on Ellen White on Salvation
“Ellen White taught that our acceptance with Christ is based totally on the merits of His life and death, which are legally, judicially accounted to us. It is not based on His death accounted to us for forgiveness and His life imparted to us so that we can make our own contribution to justification.”
I wonder what all of the “Last Generation” people would have to say to this? It is clear, that EGW thought and taught that Christ is the one that vindicates humans, based on who he is, not the other way around.
Romans 8
“And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.”
It sickens me to think that some misquote this verse to read, “And we know that all things work together for good for those who love God.” This has been the cause of a lot of bad theology in many churches. How could someone interpret the text like this when thousands upon thousands of innocent children die every day due to not having enough food to eat? While many of us sit rich and comfortable in the U.S. Does God favor us more than those little innocent kids because we “love Him”?
Instead, it is nice to read what Paul actually meant, that God can bring light to any situation, for those that love Him. This, the true Biblical statement is far less problematic.
comments on:
How Perfect Is "Perfect" Or
Is Christian Perfection Possible?
Edward Heppenstall
This article explains very well the issues of perfection in Christian life. I think that every growing Christian face the dilemma of been a failure, trying to be perfect, it happen to me, there was a time when though that I need to be rebaptized, because my constant failure in my relationship with God, but now I realize that those years were the most fruitful years of my spiritual live. I was walking with Jesus not knowing what perfection was and what He wanted from me.
Understanding this message may remove a big burden of any Christian life because so many Christians still battle with their human nature without knowing what really Jesus demand from them. It is interest to think that none of the Bible great heroes didn't have sinless nature, they were called perfect because they trust God all time. Is not what we can do to look good is what Jesus did for us and still doing in us.
Articles Read: “Why Did Jesus Die?
How God Saves Us” George W. Reid
Romans 8
Ellen White On Salvation, Chapter 8.
Whidden shows how closely tied to her views of salvation was Ellen White’s views on the nature of Christ. He admits that this subject is the most difficult he will deal with in the book. Christ’s nature is indeed a mystery and we have to be careful about being dogmatic on issues that are not made clear in the scripture.
In one sense Christ had a prelapsarian nature and in another sense he had a postlapsarian nature. As Whidden admits, there is an obvious “balanced tension,” “dialectic”, or “paradox” between Ellen White’s views of the “sinful” and “sinless” nature of Christ. At the same time Christ was unique. He wasn’t fully like us because he was referred to as “that holy thing” and humans are “born and shaped in iniquity.” So Christ can fully identify with us without being exactly liked us.
It is interesting that the debate on the nature of Christ within the SDA Church often resort to Ellen White’s writings instead of centering on the Bible because scripture doesn’t give us a dogmatic answer to our questions. There is a point beyond which we cannot go because we are dealing with a divine mystery and in these cases silence is eloquence.
I think that we can find similar tensions in Christ’s roles as a Priest, Sacrifice and King within the sanctuary motif. How can Jesus be all three at the same time?
Reid discusses the view of Christ’s death as a ransom for our sins. Who did He pay this ransom to and why is the moral view of the atonement as purported by Peter Abelard not enough to explain Christ’s death?
He discusses how Jesus’ death on the cross was more than an expression of God’s love for us. If this just demonstrated God’s love so that we may respond to that love then we would have a very shallow view of sin. Sin meant a broken law and justice demanded that a price be paid. So the cross was more than an expression of love but of justice as well.
But there definitely wasn’t any idea of “appeasement” as was common to heathen religions and gods. Jesus didn’t die to appease an angry God. In fact, the Bible clearly tells us that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. According to Reid, “God undertakes to bridge the gulf. He substitutes Himself to demonstrate the changeless nature of His law, and performs all that's needed. Christ becomes the divine sacrifice, His cross an altar (see 1 Cor. 5:7). In amazement we stand aside, watching as He takes it up in our behalf. He "gave himself up for us" (Eph. 5:2) and "offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins" (Heb. 10:12). God "sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins" (1 John 4:10).”
In Romans 8, we find Paul showing the consequences of us being “in Christ”. We are now a slave to the Spirit instead of being slaves to the flesh. The law which was once our enemy now becomes our friend. There is “now no condemnation for those who are in Christ”.
It’s interesting that even after Paul shows that that the newly converted person is no longer condemned he still has to live to the spirit and not according to the flesh. So there is growth and “maintenance” involved, not just a one time experience. But we are given the assurance that we can be more than conquerors through Christ who loves us.
So we are indeed saved at acceptance of Jesus, are being saved through the process of character building and will be saved “for in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.” (v. 24, 25)
Dale Baker
Justification by Faith Before 1888
BRI: “Justification and the Cross”
Romans 8
The topic of justification has been a topic of much debate over the century. Many questions and discussion has arising about it. Questions arise such as, are we saved by faith alone or by work, or are we saved by both? But it is vital for us to realize that faith is to be sustained by work. We are saved to work. By this I mean that we are saved, and we demonstrate that we are saved by our works. Furthermore, we are saved from our sins and not in them.
Often times one may wonder why he or she is not been a over comer in his or her life, but such an individual need to understand that it is a looking away from self that is needed to be done constantly. Thus such person has to constantly look to Christ for strength to stay on the Christian pathway. This is due to the fact that it is only Christ merits that can truly justify us. His merit makes up for our deficiencies.
As a result of the fact that Christ merit makes up for our deficiency we see that God is more than willing to forgive us of all our sins. Infact Rom. 8: 1 tells us that there is no condemnation for those that are in Christ. In Romans 8 it reveals the clearly that Christ has given us His divine grace efficaciously. Thus, what we need to do is to assess it by faith, and experience Him.
Romans 8 ... There is no condmnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. So what does it mean to be "in Christ"? Does this mean that we go on sinning...because now there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus. I've had church members tell me it doesn't matter if they continually sin because they can't be condemned, but this is not what Paul is saying...he continues to unpack this thought with the rest of the chapter especially the first 11 verses. Paul's message is that there is no condemnation to the person who lives to the Spirit and not to the flesh. So what does it mean to live to the Spirit? What does it mean to live to the flesh? Clearly Paul contrasting the two...so the inference that is clearly made is that there is condemnation for the person who lives to the flesh. Paul says, to live to the flesh cannot please God (verse 8)...but that the person that lives to the Spirit, has life and peace with God (verse 6). Paul says that some set their minds to the flesh and the things of the flesh...so is it possible that we often live to the flesh as supposed Christians, all the while many pastors tell paritioners that it's alright to continue to sin. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I believe that we need to strive for it in Christ...by living to the Spirit, by setting our minds on the things of the Spirit...Why we have models of salvation that minimize God's hatred for sin blows me away. We must understand that the battle is fought in the mind and the heart...may we set our hearts and minds on the things that God's Holy Spirit wouldn't be grieved away with...then we are in Christ...then there is no condemnation for us. Blessings!
Reflection by: Eric Ollila
October 21-27, 2007
Romans 8
This week Romans 8:31-39 spoke to me in a new way. Before, I always read the passage that nothing can separate us from God’s love and somehow never really stopped to think how this practically applies to my life. It’s almost as if I subconsciously thought “Well of course nothing can separate of from the love of God. I mean come on, even the wicked are still loved by God and they are warring against Him.”
In other words, I viewed the passage as nothing real special because I believed the promise was true for believers as well as non-believers. After all, isn’t it true that God will feel an aching spot for all of eternity in His heart for every person that He died for, but that didn’t accept His salvation? Of course, God will continue to suffer for all of eternity because some of His creatures are not there with Him when He made ample provision for them. I know this. I have shed tears over the thought of it. But after awhile of knowing it and having it repeated over and over, the tears stop coming.
This week the passage spoke to me in a new way. The Apostle Paul had suffered much for Christ. He had been beaten, ship wrecked, slandered, lied to, betrayed, and the list goes on. Not to mention having to deal with his own internal struggles with the memories of massacring the early Christians before he was converted. Sure, he realized Christ had forgiven him, but even when Christ forgives you, you still have the memories of your past sins—this is usually true, although sometimes the memories can be blocked. The point is that it is more often the case that when Christ forgives you for your sin, you still have the memory of the sin. It has scarred your mind. And the devil likes to try and resurrect these memories as often as possible to try to bring regret and discouragement and doubt regarding God’s promise of forgiveness. Having gone through some suffering of my own during the last couple of months, I couldn’t help but wonder if during any of Paul’s trials and sufferings if he ever feared or worried about messing up again. After all, he thought he was following God the first time (when he was still Saul) all the while he was actually killing God’s followers!
What stuck out to me this week was that nothing can separate of from God’s love in the sense that nothing will keep God from pursuing us. We may mess up, but nothing will keep God back from coming after the lost sheep and seeking to bring us back. The hope that came to me through this text is that if we keep getting back up again, there is nothing that is going to keep us out of heaven. The just man falls seven times but he rises back up again. This passage sheds light on what I believe Paul was speaking about in Romans 8. God is such a God that He will walk through hell with you and bring you safely through on the other side if you will simply cling to Him in all things.
You may fall, but take back hold of Jesus Christ and keep on going because nothing can separate you from His love. He will always let you get back up. It is the wicked that fall into calamity. They never get back up. Why? Because they give up. They have no interest in getting back up. They love their sin and they love to wallow in it, they are content with staying right where they are.
I take great comfort knowing that my God is big and powerful enough to go through anything with me. I take comfort in knowing that not even angels or principalities and powers could separate me from God’s relentless love. This is beautiful.
Name: Desmond C. Haye
Article: Chapter 8 “Ellen White and Salvation,” Romans 8; How Perfect Is "Perfect" Or
Is Christian Perfection Possible? By Edward Heppenstall
The nature of Christ has been a controversial subject for centuries. It has been the object of much misunderstanding by many in Adventist circles. How should we really understand Christ’s nature? What was Ellen White’s perspective on His nature? These questions have perplexed many for decades, and Whidden, seems to put this complex issue into perspective. He argues firstly, that this subject is a difficult and challenging one for any faithful student of scripture. It is Whidden’s belief that Ellen White was a firm believer in the full deity of Christ; despite the many Arian ministers of the church in her day.
But what can we make of Mrs. White’s statements on Christ nature and salvation? One thing is very clear from my reading and that is Ellen White’s understanding of the nature of Christ evolved over time, and as her relationship with God deepened, she came to a fuller and clearer understanding of Christ human and divine nature. She believed that Christ nature was “vigorously presented as a mysterious blending, or union, of humanity and deity.” She has baffled many by certain expressions she employed in her description of Christ uniqueness. Ellen White made this declaration of Christ, ”His spiritual nature was free from every taint of sin.” What exactly did she mean by this statement? According to Whidden, He (Christ) was free from sin in the sense that He was affected by sin but not infected. This chapter has helped to clarify a few rudimentary issues that I had on the subject of Christ’s nature. I am very impressed with how the author carefully and succinctly dealt with this controversial issue. While I do not truly understand all the intricacies of Christ’s nature, I am aware that he became sin for us, so that through his sacrifice we can have life. It is even more encouraging to note that I don’t need to have a perfect knowledge of his nature to be saved. I can come boldly to Him without condemnation.
This seems to be the perspective of Paul in Romans 8, where he discusses that the one who comes to Christ will not be condemned. This chapter presents a theology on salvation that is second to none. It helps the reader and seeker to understand that so long as we come to Christ with sincerity of heart and mind, there will be no condemnation. This assurance for those who are estranged is great news. It will lift the heart of every seeker of Christ. Yes, we don’t have to reach a point in our lives when we are sinless as some declare perfection to be; all we need to do is come with a deep desire to be changed and He will help us to be more like him. He
Heppenstall’s article seems to synchronize well with the viewpoint that the believer who comes to Christ will not be condemned; but can be made perfect through his grace. He sought to clarify the misconception that is so often circulated regarding perfection. He expresses the point that perfection is not a point to reach , neither does it mean “sinlessness,” rather it is a daily dying to sin, and maturing into the likeness of Christ. Daily, and continually the counteracting presence of the Holy Spirit will enable the believer to live the victorious life. This will become inherent in the life of the follower, and moment by moment we will become like Christ, changed from glory to glory.
Week Eight
Heather Barbian
Romans 8: The first section of this chapter talks about life in the Spirit by being set free from sin and death. It is interesting this section talks about being set free from the law of sin and death but talks about obedience in the law of the Spirit. It seems those who follow their own desires have not been set free. This freedom seems very counterintuitive to what I think of as freedom. The chapter also discusses our future glory and God meeting our needs. It also talks about conquering through persecution and tough times.
Whidden, Woodrow W. “Chapter Eight: The Nature of Christ and Salvation,” from: Ellen White on Salvation. Berrien Springs: R&H Catalog Service.
The nature of Christ is tied to Ellen White’s understanding of salvation. She believed that Christ had to become a man in order to meet us where we were. She believed that Jesus was fully God (Divine) yet her views on Christ’s humanity are irregular and contradictory. Also an understanding of Christ’s humanity of pre or post fall is not sufficient. It is interesting the author does not find it necessary for Jesus to have a sinful predisposition.
Rodríguez, Ángel Manuel. Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs
http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/In%20Christ-Comments.htm
This article covers the 1888 understanding of the phrase “in Adam”. At times the 1888 Study Committee understood the phrase to mean all of Adam’s decedents. This is Augustinian and comes from an interpretation of Gen 2:7. The second understanding of “in Adam” are those who sinned like Adam, Heb 7:9-10. Rodríguez writes, “The fundamental issue is the one of individual responsibility. Only individuals who actually exist are responsible for their own sins and in some cases for the sins of others. A seed is not a morally responsible agent; not even the "seed" of a human being. It appears to me that the meaning of the phrase "in Adam" in the thinking of the members of the 1888 Study Committee remains elusive.” He goes on to talk of “in Christ”. I personally do not see the problem of a “seed” that passes sin since some sins are genetic (alcoholism). The issue I think is not the passing on of a sin-nature but being guilty of sin you didn’t commit.
Earl
Reflection #8 Rom 8, BRI Adam and Justification and the Cross, Ch 9 Ellen white on Salvation
In reflecting on the readings for the week we continued looking at the consequences of sin and the gift of salvation in Angel Rodriguez article on “Justification and the Cross.” This article was very detailed and precise comparing and contrasting different outlooks in regards to the introduction of sin and death to the Earth as they pertain to sacrificial gift of salvation by Jesus. Rodriguez in his article refuted the fact that we the (human race) was present in Adam when he first disobeyed Gods command. He goes on to state the severity of the problem and it universal outcomes, but disagrees with the 1888 committee about the term “in Adam”. The author goes on to say that like sin salvation through grace also has a universal impact however, “grace is not an enslaving power that enters into the world and makes all people subject to its power. This is rather a characteristic of sin and death. Grace offers itself to humans as a gift from God and calls sinners to become members of its kingdom, to allow themselves to be ruled by it.” Instead he writes that; Paul is stating that as a result of Adam's sin, all are born spiritually dead, unable to resist the power of sin by themselves, making sin inescapable for all and thus explaining universal impact of Adam’s sin on mankind.
But my concern with this topic of sin and salvation is the origination of sin and how it managed to become so powerful that we had not chance to withstand its’ appeal. And why is it that God allowed sin to create such havoc in the world. Was this part of the original plan? Regardless, of sin I praise God that I am still able to be justified which brings us to the chapter on Ellen White by Whidden. In this chapter he took a closer look at justification and the different models and principles around the time leading up to the 1888 committee. Highlighting Mrs. White perspective of justification by faith and works and that Jesus saves us from sin and not in sin. So in closing we can see that our works are thus directly correlated to our faith and thus to God. This is why when we read from Romans Paul says “who can separate us from the love of God?” Only we can separate ourselves because if “God is for us who can be against us.”
I read the article “Comments on 1 Timothy 4:10” by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez. The first time that I read the article I was impressed with the position that he took. I read it again a few days later and began to see the assumptions that he came to the text with and the specific response to the 1888 group.
He believes that you are saved or not saved there is no middle ground. Which I happen to believe myself, but in the context of the Doctrine of Salvation and other Biblical texts a person probably wouldn’t come to that understanding on 1Timothy 4:10 alone. Granted it is only an article on 1 Timothy 4:10 and not on the Doctrine of Salvation, but it is important I believe to know the assumptions of the person studying the text. He makes that point himself in paragraph five where he states, “There is no need to introduce in the text the idea of universalism or of a legal universal salvation which has no immediate effect on the final destiny of the individual.” In other words other people have come to this same text and interpreted something different than he did, most likely a big part of their interpretation was their assumptions.
He further explains that if we use the correct interpretation of the text, which he believes he has done, the correct interpretation/his interpretation (which could be correct) takes care of any problems (referring to universalism) in the text which I think is a rebuttal of the 1888 group (even though they don’t claim universalism).
This article was a good look into the ongoing debate of who God will eventually save, everyone or just those who believe in Him.
Week 8 Submission
Most of what I have to comment on this week is not from the article I read which is “Justification in Romans 3:21-24” by Ángel Manuel Rodríguez. It seemed a little redundant. It is just a restatement of all the things that he has said in previous articles. There were some wonderful points in Whidden’s book though. The two quotes I liked the most were, “Yet if the gospel of justification by faith is taught the way it should be, it may sometimes sound like cheap grace nonsence that makes God’s law of none effect. The reason for this seeming perversion is that none of the works of obedience manifest by even ‘true believers’ (Ellen White’s term, not Eric Hoffer’s) could ever have saving merit.” Also, “One of the most forceful expressions of this close relationship between law and grace, or true faith and obedience, was given in her summation of the experience of John Wesley following his Aldersgate experience: ‘He continued his strict and self-denying life, not now as the ground, but the result of faith; not the root, but the fruit of holiness.’ (GC 256)”
I will have to apoligize for what I am about to say, but I hate the term cheap grace. Grace was not cheap. It cost God everything that He had to redeem us and guess what He does give it to us for FREE. All we have to do is accept it and by doing that we accept Him and His Lordship over our lives. OK now that I am past my pet peave, I find these statements profound. The difference in whether or not we are in God’s plan of salvation is where our works come from. Is it God changing us in His time and with His power or is it you and me trying to change things on our own because we think that is what God wants us to do. By the way I believe that what might be a sin for me may not be a sin for you. It all comes down to what might be coming between God and me. That same thing may not be an issue for you. We have to be careful telling people what they should and shouldn’t do because we don’t know what God is doing in their lives. We may discourage people instead of encouraging them.
Romans 5
Ellen White Chapter 5 Salvation, the Great Controversy Theme,
Closing Events, and the Law
BRI - Comments on 1Timothy 4:10
Paul in Romans 5 discussed that God has his own timetable and that He does things in due time “that while we were without strength… and were still sinners Christ died for us.” That his death has resulted into our justification to all who believe, he calls this grace. This grace known also as a “gift from God” redeemed us from the sinful nature we’re in through Adam’s sin, but through the obedience of Jesus everyone who chooses to accept his gift of grace results into justification. The struggle is in the choosing to accept the gift of justification or not.
The same flow of thought was discussed in Ellen White’s writings and theology. The doctrine of salvation is so important to her that it took the central arching theme.She used every effort to lift up Christ and the purpose of the saving act of the Trinity. All the lies and accusations of Satan were refuted and disproved. The Law of God upheld so highly to say that it’s the reflection of His will. An emphasis on the call for a balance between law and grace, faith and works, justice and mercy, and a closer look into the controversy of God's character versus Satan's deceptions, being the very heart of her understanding of practical godliness and the doctrine of salvation. For her, obedience, associated with a just and loving acceptance, is possible. Again it’s a matter of choice.
Manuel Rodriguez
Miguel disputed the idea of being “legally saved subject to acceptance of salvation” first and foremost because it’s not Biblically sound and correct, secondly, the text itself doesn’t support the idea, thirdly, the offer of salvation was for all and not only to some. He closed his argument saying: “On the cross God made provision for the salvation of every human being but only those who through faith accept the gift of salvation through Christ will be saved. Christ's substitutionary atonement is universal in its extent but, because of the freedom God has given to humans, it is limited in its salvific effect.” Therefore, salvation is by choice even though it given freely as a gift.
Dan Ocampo
Reflections #6
Romans 6 - EGW - Sin, the Human Condition, and Salvation
BRI – The Dynamics of Salvation
Paul emphasized the importance of a continued experience of salvation that those who received the gift of salvation by grace through faith must put into action their claims of freedom from being slaves to sin to being salve to righteousness. Real life application of the freedom from sin is important for Paul to see happening among the believers to manifest the fruits of holiness which ends to everlasting life, all being done in Christ Jesus.
For Ellen White, sin was defined as both acts of transgressing God's will (1SM 320) and a condition of depravity that involves inherited sinful "propensities," "inclinations," "tendencies," and a "bent" to sin (that is, inbred or indwelling sin) (5BC 1128; Ed 29; IHP 195).
Despite of the fact that we by nature are sinful and still would be in such a condition until Glorification at the second coming of Jesus, God takes the initiative to awaken us to the truth of our helpless condition to trigger the receiver to exercise “the will power” whether to surrender it to God or not for justification, sanctification or glorification. The rightful exercise of the freedom of choice is what marks the line between Ellen White and the Calvinist. Total dependence on Jesus as a matter of choice making this event like a covenant where both parties agree to do as agreed. In her very words, Ellen wrote: “we need Jesus to declare us "perfect" all the way to the gates of glory.” Our depravity or propensity to sin doesn’t stop us from making a choice. The fact that Christ empowers us tells that no one can declare him/herself perfect except by Christ.
The dynamics of salvation forever center in the righteousness of God and His Son, according to the BRI article, and not to forget the work of the Holy Spirit, too. From guilt to justification, reconciliation, sanctification, glorification and eventual progressive changes in life by walking the newness of life in Christ through the Holy Spirit was all and still is God’s own initiative and our action is through our responses. Only God can save and only the cross made it possible. Not even faith which is God’s gift can save but it’s the vehicle whereby we can receive salvation from Jesus’ death on the cross. From condemnation to glorification to consummation is all God’s initiative and the choice is ours to make.
Dan Ocampo
Reflection Paper on The Nature of Christ and Salvation
Ellen White as a Theologian
Romans VIII
It is impossible for man to understand the concept of the Incarnation of Christ fully. To contemplate how He who was from the beginning, through the power of the Holy Spirit, who was also from the beginning, overshadowed Mary and the Christ child began to live in the womb of human flesh is mind boggling, nevertheless believable. It is indeed believable because the Bible says that the angel said unto her(Mary), The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall over-shadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.Luke 1:35
We need more faith to believe the inspired Biblical writings and the inspired Spirit of Prophecy writings. Ellen White made this statement: “If there were no mystery, what need would there be for faith?” O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? Or who hath been his counselor? Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen Rom.11:33-36
Christ took upon Him our nature and overcame sin, that by taking His nature we might overcome sin. He was made in the likeness of sinful flesh, but lived a sinless life. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom.8:1 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.Rom. 8:34
Theological Discernment(EG White)
"Inspiration is to apply to the thoughts of the writers."
This week: Romans 8, Justification and the Cross
Ángel Manuel Rodríguez, Chapter 8- Nature of Christ and Salvation.
As I read Romans 8 and reflected on the issue of salvation, I just have to remind myself that the law is
our mirror which gives us a candid reflection of ourselves. The reason I was compelled to do this is
simply because if one does not understand the theology of Paul one can easily misconstrue the matter
of law as it relates to salvation. This can be done by joining millions to say that the law has been
abolished.
As the Apostle emphasizes that once we accept Christ we have life in the Spirit. He reiterates this point
by expressing, “If Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the spirit is alive because of
righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who
raised Christ from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also, through his Spirit that dwells in you. 12
Consequently, brothers, we are not debtors to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live
according to the flesh, you will die, but if by the spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God. Romans 8:10-14.” Indeed those who
are led by the Spirit are alive and are children of God. To me the mystery of the incarnation is here
highlighted in Christ sacrifice for our lives. And rhetorically and compelled to ask, “how can Christ who
oversaw and was involved in creation of our forefather (Adam), saw Mary’s birth and her descendants’
birth and still became her son. Certainly, for a sinful finite mind its complex to ponder; for a fallen human
being it appears to be the greatest impossibility, but considering He is God- with God all things are
possible! In Ellen White’s Doctrine of Salvation there appears to be the notion that God knew the plan
before the foundation of the earth, so that, should man sin provision will be made for his reconciliation. In
the latter part of Roman’s 8 Paul’s rhetoric when discussing what might be able to separate us from the
Father’s love is not at all suggesting that we are once saved always saved. On the contrary, Paul is
emphasizing the enormity of the love and sacrifice God made for humankind. The adequacy of the
provision makes it possible for us to find salvation- it is contingent upon us to choose!
Jeff Carlson
Doctrine of Salvation
Comment #2
-"Analysis of the Doctrine of
Universal 'Legal' Justification" by Larry J. Kane
-Romans 3
-Widden Chapter 3
The interesting thing for me reading this article was how it really seems that Mr. Kane is fighting a strawman...very passionatly! I can't imagine that if he was to actually ask one of the 1888 MSC people that they would say that they believe that the entire world has been justified in the way that he is claiming. I cant imagine that they are saying that every person has been saved which is what the author is fighing. Of course everyone has to exercise faith to experience the benefits of salvation.
I think if they were to sit down in a room and talk it out and actually listen to each other they would realize that they are probabely saying the exact same thing and merely using different words. I say this because, like I said earlier, I cant imagine that the 1888 people are saying that we are all saved without exercising faith. If they are than they truly dont have biblical support. But if they are saying that the act of justification has been carried out and that each of us has been given the gift of justification and that the only thing standing in the way of our receiving the benefits of this gift is our choice, then they seem to be agreed. If we dont accept the gift it is still sitting there. It doesnt suddenly appear when we accpet it. The author goes on to say: "The loving basis of God's overture is expressed in Romans 5:8-10 where Paul observes that "God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us [the ungodly]" and "when we were [God's] enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son." The same truth is given in the well-known John 3:16-19."
He quotes the verse, "while we were still sinners Christ reconciled us..." Now does that mean that every sinner is in a perfect relationship with God now? Of course not. But Mr. Kane doesnt seem to see the disconnect here. It seems that we can have something provided - justification, reconciliation - and still not be receiving the benefits. Maybe he needs a bigger model:)
Widden points out that Ellen White, later in her life, began to make a bigger emhesis on Lutherian justification rather than a Methadist understanding. This might have been due to her research for The Great Controversy. She seems to have done this due to her fear that we as SDAs were leaning too far in the direction of legalism. It would be a shame that we would leave legalism and run right into another way of missing the beauty of what God has done for us in Jesus - tearing apart the words until the idea they feably represent is lost in the semantic battle.
I think that proper theology is very important. The false doctrine of hell has created more athiests than we could ever imagine. However, we need to be careful that we are not fighting an idea that we really do agree with but is merely expressed in a way we are not accustomed with.
Week 9 submission
Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden” (Romans 9:18) is troublesome to me. But not so much when I look at it in the wider context. God chose Israel as a special people to show God to the world. The Gentiles received God by faith and obtained righteousness. This seems to be the main issue throughout the chapter when Paul concludes in Romans 9:30-33 with this thought. Comparing this chapter with 2 Peter 3:9 I find that God wants every person to come to repentance. When God hardens someone to make a point, it may be because they have already hardened their own heart. It reminds me of where Paul tells the Corinthians to hand over the immoral brother to Satan so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord (1 Corinthians 5:5).
In the BRI article I appreciate that the article starts out by saying that justification and judgment have a both/and rather than an either/or relationship in Paul’s writings. The article seems to say that Romans 3 proves that the judgment of God is over, that he is proven faithful. I do believe that God is faithful, but I still don’t think that all the questions will be answered until sin is destroyed and we can ask God some of our “why” questions. How can we answer this question for someone who does not believe in Revelation from God or in the validity of the Bible? I thought this statement in BRI was interesting, “judgment according to works guards the doctrine of the justification of the ungodly from meaning the justification of ungodliness.” This is coming at the issue from a different angle than I am used to thinking about it. This and the pillar of justification by faith seem to balance each other out. I have seen people go off the deep end when they are too focused on one aspect and exclude the other. It is a good idea to present the tension between judgment and justification in the context of salvation history. The stories of people’s lives show how this tension operates in real life.
Comment on...
Justification and the Cross
Ángel Manuel Rodríguez
As the article specify Adam open the door to sin come through the world, so it is a fact that sin exits before Adam. Sin came accompanied with death and with the door open it pass to all human kind, that’s why every human inherit death as consequence of sin. Also is made clear that is not the Adam sin what we inherit, but because his sin now we all sin and is made clear that we die also because our own sins and not for Adam sin.
As I understood reading this article it appear to be that human nature is individual looks like is not connected with Adam in this matter, so in that case we are separate from Adam therefore we are responsible for ours acts, Adam play the role of permitting slavery to sin in human race.
Angel Manuel Rodriguez said; “As Adventists we do believe that the sin of Adam weakened human nature making our sinning unavoidable. We have also taught that because of Adam's sin we exist in a state of separation from God, in condemnation and needing redemption. Because he was the representative of the human race, what he did had an impact on all of his descendants. We exist in solidarity with him as our common ancestor and as such he determined the fate of the human race. Sin and death invaded the natural world and especially human nature.” So the good things is that we have hope in Jesus who will restore everything to the original state.
Justification by faith- before 1888
Romans 8
The Dynamics of Salvation
Paul brings to view in Romans 8 the two natures that are present in the believer’s life; these are (1) the sinful nature and (2) the nature of Christ. He points out that these two natures are at variance with each other. Paul reveals that when the law of the Spirit or the controlling power of the Spirit controls the life the character of Christ will be produced. The reception and surrender of the believer to the effectual working of the Holy Spirit makes him or her a possession of Christ and as a result there is no condemnation for such a person. On the other hand, Paul also shows that the person who is controlled by the law of sin or sin’s controlling power has no desire for the things of God and the sinful nature is what dominates such a person’s life. The believer Paul points out that yields to the Spirit’s controlling power is freed from sin’s controlling power, which produces death spiritually and ultimately. On the other hand, the person who does surrender to the Holy Spirit rather to sin’s controlling power is not freed from sin; virtually such a person is slave to sin as a result will experience death spiritually and ultimately. To demonstrate the two natures present in the life and the one that will survive is illustrated by the feeding of two dogs. The dog that receives feeding is the dog that will live and the one that does not receive feeding is the one that will die. Hence, the nature that is fed is the nature that will live and the nature that is starved is the one that will die. When the spiritual nature in the life is allowed to be fed by the Holy Spirit the character of Christ will be produced and the sinful nature will die. Similarly, when the sinful nature is fed it will control the life and the spiritual nature will die.
“Analysis of the Doctrine of the Universal ‘Legal’ Justification”
Larry J. Kane
In this article, Kane looks at specific texts that seem to point to God’s universal, salvific objective justification. Once again, the BRI has given in to minute conservative Adventist arguments.
This quote stands out: “The truth revealed in Scripture is that God has done as much as divinely possible to lead His creatures to salvation without overruling their freedom of choice.”
Chapter 10 on Ellen White on Salvation
“Through all the years, whether justification or sanctification was getting the accent or emphasis in her ministry, Ellen White always sought balance in her presentations.”
This quote was fleshed out during the course of this chapter. Although this chapter emphasized the historical aspects of 1888, it is still obvious that Mrs. White was seeking a godly balance between a justification/sanctification emphasis.
Romans 9
“Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.”
In short, this chapter is a key insight into Paul’s perspective of “salvation history,” and how God’s grace is ever widening!
Earl
Reflection #9 Rom 9, BRI Justification by Faith and Judgment According to Works, Ch 10 Ellen white on Salvation
After reading this week’s articles, chapter and texts several different points stood out to me. But the most significant came from one of the articles from the BRI documents. Though simple in hindsight the statement had a profound impact while reading and studying. The author in his article said and I quote, “Without complete assurance that God forgives and accepts us we cannot possibly live for Christ and in harmony with His claim. If we do not fully realize our acceptance we cannot be freed from preoccupation and anxiety over self to have sufficient interest and time to concentrate on others. Furthermore, without this personal assurance we will not have the insight or strength needed to accept others fully. How can I understand acceptance and really accept others if I do not know Christ's acceptance of me? What we receive in Christ determines what we do for Christ. The gift of Christ can be passed on only when it has been experienced.”
How true!!! To often we try to become experts and judges while we ourselves that not even truly grasp what we are so desperately trying to teach other. I know that the theme thus for in class has been for us to get a bigger model but the more I read and the more I try to understand my theme sounds more like Back to basics. In reflecting on Romans 9, Paul’s writes about the sovereign choice of God and his ability to save any he chooses. The chapter discusses the fact that God even harden he heart of Pharaoh to show his power. When I begin to think about things in that light I cringe at trying to wrap my mind around the enormity of the gift of salvation for fear of completely missing the mark. While what I truly needed was right in front me all the while. At he end of the day God and God alone shall decide on who shall receive his gift why stress it? It is out of our hands. We should concentrate on just depending on him for everything and not worry about drama similar to that of Mrs. White after the 1888 committee dealing peoples best assumption of what God scripture means. I have nothing against spiritual maturity however I think we may just be deceiving ourselves.
Pro-life and Pro-choice
Much discussion was about unconditional justification being applied universally or only applied to those that choose to exercise their right to choose - life. The arguments sustained between the 1888 committee and BRI reminds me of the once hot topic of “right to life” discussions.
I see the argument of 1888 universal rights in kind with the “right to life” camp. The universal right to life is regardless of whether or not the woman carrying the child wants to or doesn’t want to carry a child and deliver at full term. The pro-choice side I liken to the BRI folks. I mean – the woman has a choice to carry or not to carry. And the choice is really about her and her body alone.
I mean – the birth or non-birth of a person w/o human intervention is credited to God right? And that person (as far as I know) made no choice in the matter of being born. Only God allowed it. And so God is viewed as totally sovereign and we are all part of the universal justification offered unconditionally at the cross.
If we have a choice in the matter of accepting salvation – then that would be like the mother choosing whether or not to allow the child to full term. Kind of like allowing ourselves to accept or reject life – through salvation.
Well.. I have totally confused myself with this thinking. I now think that I want to camp out with the 1888 universal unconditional justification folks. I mean – I don’t want to make a decision on the life of a child or not. I want it to be totally up to God.
But at the same time – I believe that we have a right to make the choice of whether or not to accept life – through salvation. I want pro-choice.
You know what – I can’t make a choice between wanting to side with the 1888 or BRI. That’s probably because I don’t think that I’ll ever be wise enough to stand fully on one side or the other. I do wish, however, to want to believe that God is sovereign and still allows me to make a choice for life or not.
Commenting on:
• BRI Doc: Kane, Larry J, Analysis of the Doctrine of Universal "Legal" Justification
• Romans 8, Class notes
• Whidden: The Nature of Christ and Salvation, Ch. 8
Articles Read: “How Perfect Is "Perfect" Or
Is Christian Perfection Possible? By Edward Heppenstall
Romans 9
Ellen White On Salvation, Chapter 9.
Heppenstall’s article showed how the Christian can never in this life claim perfection as to mean “sinlessness”. He showed how the continual tension between the “Spirit” and the “flesh” in Paul’s writings illustrate that the great controversy will ever be fought within the Christian until his mortality shall put on immortality.
The idea of sinless perfection is just not biblical. The Epistle of John warns us that if we claim that we have not sinned we make liars of God! (1 John 1:8-10) This in no way means that we should continue in sin “so that grace may abound”. We have to strive against the flesh day be day but the “flesh” will always be with us.
It’s interesting to study the already / not yet theme in Romans. For Paul, the Christian is always caught up in a tension of what Christ has done for us and will ultimately do for us. So we are “dead” because of the spirit presence in our bodies but we still have to fight against the flesh. “Redemption” is something that we already have but we still have to wait for the redemption of our bodies. “Freedom” is something we already have but not yet fully experienced because the creation is waiting to be “set free from the slavery of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God. (Romans 8:21)
It’s the same way with salvation because we have already been saved by Christ death for our sins but we are still waiting for that final salvation when Christ will take us from this world.
Romans 9:14-23 is indeed a troublesome passage and seem to champion the Calvinist view of salvation. God choosing one in effect means that he rejects the other—Jacob over Esau, Moses over Pharaoh, and the vessel of mercy over the vessel of wrath. But I think that the point Paul is making here is that God’s choice is always based on MERCY not on what humans can do. Paul is playing the “bad cop” to make the point that God’s election is always based on grace. This is the same thing that Paul argued in Romans 3-4. For Paul seems to be saying that even when God appears to be arbitrary his intention is always mercy towards undeserving sinners.
Dale Baker
“Ministry after Minneapolis – 1888-1902
BRI: Justification by Faith and Judgment According to Works
Romans 9
This week reading on salvation has presented some informative information. It was interesting to see that Ellen White did not start write the book about Jesus until after the 1888 meetings, which death with righteousness by faith. As one reads these books written by her, we can see that she emphasis much on the fact that we are not saved by anything that we do, rather it is all about what Jesus can do and has done.
It was further interesting for me to see how there were various movements around at the time. These movements which were extreme in there approach and thoughts of scripture and salvation. No different is it today than it was at that time, since today there are so many varied views on the Holy Spirit, on perfection, and the whole process of salvation. I believe that there needs to be a clear teaching about these topics to members in our churches today, as there are so many views out there to confuse the minds of people.
Consequently, what if we had to go through or experience salvation the way that many of these people view and see it. Then I doubt many would be saved, or be interested in it. Thank God we are saved by grace through faith, and that it is a gift from God. Thank God that it is as Paul describe it that we have already receive the righteousness of God, yet we wait for the hope Gal. 5:5. Moreover, as Romans 9 shows us that even though we (Israel) have rejected God, He still reaches out to us to deliver us and redeem us.
Week Nine
Heather Barbian
Romans 9: This is one of my most confusing and troublesome passages. I remember the first time I read this passage was after speaking to someone who feels that God is a God who primarily hates and judges. He had no concept of grace or love. Obviously he was Calvinistic and did not feel there is anything we can do to accept salvation including repenting or asking Jesus into our hearts. Even now I remember that man when I read this text. The context is that Paul is explaining why God can choose anyone to bless others with. First God choose the Israelites but then God choose to use the “followers of the way”.
Whidden, Woodrow W. “Chapter Nine: Justification by faith - Before 1888,” from: Ellen White on Salvation. Berrien Springs: R&H Catalog Service.
This chapter discussed Ellen White’s emphasis on justification after 1888. She was able to balance justification with Christian living unlike Wesley. Therefore the doctrine of justification did not invite presumptuous sinning. She also stressed a continual reliance on Christ and self-examination. This is seen in her distaste for the phrase, “I am saved”. Christ’s merits make our obedience acceptable and make up for our faults. In this way Satan’s accusations have no power over us.
The Righteousness by Faith Consultation. The Dynamics of Salvation from Review and Herald® Publishing Association. Reprinted from Adventist Review, July 31, 1980, by the Biblical Research Institute.
This chapter covers issues such as the human need, the divine initiative, the need for human response to grace, the new status and life in Christ and God’s final initiative. This article is pretty basic and did not really offer me any new insights.
Romans 9...Whidden's Chapter 9
"Justification by Faith-Before 1888"...BRI's "Justification by Faith and Judgment According to Works" by Ivan T. Blazen:
Romans 9 is a tough chapter...seems to follow the Calvin's understanding of "election"...verse 13 "As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau I have hated." Now if this was the only chapter that you ever read in the Bible, chances are you would have the wrong picture of who God is and what He is like. I think the answer to the chapter's tension is found at the end in verses 32,33 where Paul writes... "Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at the stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Zion a stumblingstone and rock of offense: and whosoever believes on Him shall not be ashamed." I believe Paul is simply attempting to get the point accross that God, no matter what things may seem like, God is in control.
Whidden's Chapter 9
"Justification by Faith-Before 1888"...Ellen White's clearly grew in her understanding of justification and sanctification. After much reflection and prayer and bible study, EGWhite grew to focus primarily on justification as the year 1888 approached. She emphasized her understanding before this time was clear... justification meant that the sinner was "pardoned" and "forgiven"...she grew to focus on this part of the gospel...after all it is the "goodness of God that leads us to repent" (Romans 2:4)
BRI's "Justification by Faith and Judgment According to Works" by Ivan T. Blazen:
Blazen opens with the explanation that there has long been a tension maintained between "faith" and "works"...one group only talks about faith, while another group makes works the focus. My understanding of salvation is that we are saved by faith alone (Eph 2:8,9) while the Bible does teach that while we are saved by grace through faith, we WILL be judged by our fruit or works.(Revelation 20:13) True faith "works"(James 2:17,18)
God’s sovereignty
Romans 9 is first chapter for me that really had me talking back at it… and the answer returned in the text is not something I'm comfortable with. The chapter reads along the lines of Calvinist thought:
“not all who are descended from Israel are Israel… On the contrary – It is through Isaac.” And then later on, "before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad” God says, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated." Furthermore, “For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose… Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden”
And so if God hardens who he wants to harden – then why does God blame me? And Paul’s answer to that is that the potter will do what he wants with the clay. What kind of stuff is that? Is God unjust? How then can I be blamed?
And the best answer is – God will do what he will do and I have no right to ask? I am only made to be shown mercy to or not to be shown mercy to and even be on the choosing end of being hardened by God himself. Oh my!
I’m sure that there is a message of going beyond pre-destination somewhere in here- but for right now – I’ll just have to sit on it and think for a while.
Have any of you seen much outside of Calvin in rom 9?
Peace,
mika
Commenting on:
• BRI Doc: “Justification by Faith and Judgment According to Works”
• Romans 9, Class notes
• Whidden: Justification by Faith—Before 1888, Ch. 9
Jesus is the savior of all men, in other words he is the unique savior off all me. This does not mean that all men are automatically saved. I like the BRI suggestion “that all men” in 1Timothy 4:10 could be read to mean all sorts of people, Jews and Gentiles alike, who accept Christ. Therefore, there is no need to introduce in the text the idea of universalism or of a legal universal salvation which has no immediate effect on the final destiny of the individual.
Salvation through Jesus is unique in that it is the only way men can have access to God. This includes all men of all races and class. There are no special privileges bases on ethnicity, or social standing. The scripture says there is no other name under heaven by which we must be saves Acts 4:12
Although salvation is extended to all for it to be effective to the individual it must be accepted by each individual. In other words not universally but individually each on must believe and exercise faith in Jesus Christ to be saved. For in Romans 4:3 the scripture says: For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Romans 4 goes on to say that this righteousness is not a payment for service rendered. The believer is not collecting what is due him or her. Instead faith is Jesus is counted for righteousness. According to whidden in commenting on E G white, suggest that there is need for a balance, law and Grace, faith and Works, Justice and mercy.
On the cross God made provision for the salvation of every human being but only those who through faith accept the gift of salvation through Christ will be saved. Christ's substitutionary atonement is universal in its extent but, because of the freedom God has given to humans, it is limited in its salvific effect. I would like to say it this way; Jesus is the savior of all men, those who believe in him would be saved.
Romans 5, BRI. Comments on the "In Adam/In Christ" Motifs Whidden chap 6
Romans 5 implies that, Adam, who is a type of Christ That is, Adam, the first man, is a type or pattern or foreshadowing of Christ. Then Paul insert those words just as, "Death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam" That is, right after saying that the personal sins of Adam's descendants were not the root cause that brought their death; it was their union with Adam in his sin. Why say right here, Adam is a pattern of Christ? Is Paul saying, just as those who are in Adam die because of his sin imputed to them, so also those who are in Christ live because of his righteousness imputed to them? This seems to be saying that Adam is a pattern of Christ is to signal that justification comes to us not on the ground of our obedience, but on the ground of Christ's obedience and our union with him by faith alone.
Justification in Christ however is not equilibrium with equal action on both sides. It doesn't just balance the number, leaving us at zero, so to speak. Christ and his righteousness and justification and life are much more than Adam and his sin and condemnation and death.
This is the real parallel throughout this passage. Many are in Adam and many die because of one man's transgression. Many are in Christ and many experience grace because of the one man's grace. There was one way for all men to fall – in Adam. There is one way for all to be saved – in Christ.
The BRI seems to be on point is stating that the imputation theory is foreign to the Bible. Romans 5:12-21 does not teach that Adam's sin was imputed to us. On the contrary the passage makes Adam responsible for his own sin. That implies that his descendants are responsible for there’s, though they inherit the result of Adam’s sin which is death.
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